Challenge the Food Police with Kristin Williams (Intuitive Eating #4)

Kristin Williams IE 4: Challenge the Food Police

Amy Connell: Hey there. Welcome to the graced health podcast, your source for aging strong in your physical, mental, and spiritual health. My name is Amy Connell. I'm a weight neutral certified personal trainer and nutrition coach who loves walks with friends, chocolate, and Jesus. Whether you're looking to grow stronger as you age, nourish your body, mind, and spirit, or fit all the pieces of your health together to holistically thrive.

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All of those links are in the show notes. We are in a season focusing on the 10 different principles of intuitive eating. And so I am a member. of an amazing online group with other Christ centered health professionals. And so I have invited them on to talk about intuitive eating. So this week we are talking about principle for challenge the food police.

And I have Kristen Williams back again today. Kristen, welcome.

Kristin Williams: Thanks for having me, Amy.

Amy Connell: Well, it was so fun to have you here in season 18, episode four, and it was, have I messed up my kids relationship with food and body? And that was a very well received show. I know it really touched a lot of people. So for people who haven't met you, number one, go back, listen to season 18, episode four.

If they have not let me tell you really quickly about Kristen. She's a registered dietitian and certified eating disorder specialist with a private practice. in Dallas, Texas. Kristen helps people to experience freedom with food using an intuitive eating and non scale focused approach. She's passionate about incorporating the incorporating the Christian faith into the process for those who are interested and helping her clients to reclaim their worth from a number on the scale.

Amen. Amen. Amen to that. Kristen. Okay. Let's talk about Challenge the food police first, give us a broad explanation of what this is.

Kristin Williams: So the way I describe the food police Is it can either be? An internal voice in our heads or an external voice from society, culture, family of origin, friends group. Most of the time I think we're experiencing a combination of, of both. We're hearing external food polices and then we also have one that likes to hang out in our brains from, from time to time.

And the way I like to describe the food police is it's really this annoying voice with food rules, do's, don'ts, goods, bads, lots of shame, lots of shame and just overall not a helpful voice.

Amy Connell: Yeah, I agree. I'm thinking just to my own personal world and I feel like it's definitely a mix. The internal is still there, even though I'm trying to push it out. Right. But it takes a long time to sever relationships. And I feel like at this stage in my life, who I'm really getting the food police from is.

Instagram.

Kristin Williams: yeah, yeah, definitely.

Amy Connell: there's a lot of stuff on there that had I, I wish I had the energy to. Push back a little bit, but I also know better than to engage in you know, difficult conversations over a social media app, but I feel like there, there's a lot of that there never eat this, avoid this, all of that kind of stuff,

Kristin Williams: And it honestly, I mean, that's a perfect example. I can't think of a better one. It just adds typically to the mental noise that we're already experiencing because most of us already have a food police in our head. So it's just adding to that, you know, soundtrack of the noise of the do this, do that, all the things.

And I'm sure we'll get there, but it's all in an attempt to control, which often leads us feeling. Out of control and shame.

Amy Connell: right? Right. And unfortunately it's one that we can't control as much because it'll come through on sponsored posts. It'll come through. I mean, even if you don't follow the person, you can, you can inadvertently get it and then see it and then take that can be, take you down the wrong, the wrong path. So with regard to the food police and taking out the Don't eat, never eat.

You should all of that kind of stuff. Just that, that running narrative, you know, the opposite of that is eating what you want and not worrying about any of that. And so I know that a big concern among women, especially those who have been abiding by diet rules is, well, if I eat whatever I want. Then won't that lead to weight gain?

I have to imagine this is something that you hear in your private practice. And I would love to eat for you to speak to that.

Kristin Williams: Yeah. Yeah. I get that question all of the time. And people even being confused about the process of intuitive eating of, well, if I don't listen to these rules and just, just to give your listeners example of, you know, rules of the food police, it might be don't eat past. 7 o'clock in the evening. A lot of times people don't even know where the rule came from.

They're like, I just heard it or I saw it on Instagram. It sounded like a good idea, so I added it to the list to follow. You know, another example might be, I don't know, a rule regarding physical activity for something that you ate in order to give yourself permission to eat. Or a rule about carbohydrates.

So a lot of times Clients will have these rules either subconsciously or consciously in an effort to control, in an effort to control their eating intake, in an effort to control their weight. So the idea, I'll oftentimes have clients list like, let's list as many rules as you can come up with. And it's funny because often they'll be like, well, I can think of like two or three and then we start talking or they, you know, go home and I say, email them to me and they're like, okay, it ended up being 50, you know, because we have so many that we just, we don't even think to challenge.

They're just floating around in our minds. Um, and so the idea of. When people feel like, well, I'm quote unquote failing at my eating, assumption is that the solution is to add more rules. And the goal is to actually start challenging those rules or the food police, if you will, and to start getting rid of some of those rules first, looking where they originated and the immediate pushback that I usually get is won't I just, if, with, if I have no rules, it'll be all wheels off and I'll eat whatever I want and I'll gain a bunch of weight. And so I try to validate clients that of course that would be the concern. The rules feel safe. They, they are giving you a sense of control, a false sense of control, but of course that would be scary to challenge the rules. But I try to encourage clients to consider the fact that. Food restriction actually creates food interest. So, the more, you know, if I can't have chips and queso, the more I'm probably thinking about chips and queso. You know even if it's a food that you don't even necessarily like, if there's a food rule around it, you're probably thinking about it more, which makes it more appealing. It's like the forbidden fruit.

And so I try to explain to people that while the food rules of the food police feel safe structured, most of the time they're actually setting us up to then feel out of control. Around those foods. And I'll get, do you mind if I give an example?

Amy Connell: Yeah. So, so let's just say going back to this food police, the rule might be, I can eat.

Kristin Williams: I feel like we talked about Oreos at some point in our last conversation. The rule might be, I can have Oreos, but only two. And I want the rule because it feels safe, I feel controlled knowing that I'm going to have just two. And then what happens if I have a third?

Amy Connell: Oh feels like we know, realistically, a third Oreo is not that big of a deal.

Kristin Williams: Like, you're going to be fine.

Amy Connell: Right.

Kristin Williams: for someone that has that food police running around in their mind, they've just broken this rule. And most of the time, if you've broken the rule, there's that sense of guilt and shame, I'm a failure, might as well eat all of the Oreos because I ate three. And so often times it sets people up to then feel out of control around food and we think falsely that the solution is more rules. Does that make sense?

Amy Connell: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense because I know that we have this all or nothing mentality so many of us do. And I think some of it's just our culture of like, well, if I'm not going to do this perfectly, Then why bother? And I'm not going to do it at all. And I think you're, you're hitting the nail on the head of like, well, if I've had three Oreos and I said I was going to have two, then now I'm just going to have all of them or the full sleeve or something like that.

It's so funny. Yeah. I think we must've talked about Oreos in our last one. It's I Oreos are, have been at least a staple at my house because my kids love them so much. And now I have like a third of a. Thing of Oreos left and my kids just left home. And I'm like, I don't know how long it's going to take for us to go through these because they're all, and I just, it's just not something I think because I've been working through it, I'm like, it's just not, it's not forbidden for me 

anymore. And it's just not that exciting or 

Kristin Williams: Right. And, and I think you really hit the nail on the head there. Going back to your original question of people are scared that they're going to be out of control with food. They're going to gain weight if they don't have these food rules. When we're in, when in reality, what you're doing is. You're taking the shininess, if you will, out of the Oreos, so then you have the freedom to say yes to them, because you're not dieting, but you have the freedom to say no.

It's not, I have to say no, I should say no, saying no is the right thing. I have the freedom to say no if I don't want them. And so over time, you're kind of taking the shininess out of the Oreos. I had a client that felt that she could not control herself around. Strawberry popsicles and not popsicles, strawberry pop tarts. So her food rule was just don't have them in your home. You cannot have strawberry pop tarts in your home. And we started, but she loves strawberry pop tarts. And so we started working on this together. And there was an aha moment for her when she said, Kristen, it's been. three months and I still have this same box of strawberry pop tarts in my pantry. And it was just crazy for her. And so the goal isn't always necessarily to eat less. It depends on the person and their relationship with food and what's going on. But oftentimes when we have less food roles, our eating just kind of naturally balances itself out a little bit better. And it's usually The more food rules we have, the more out of control we tend to feel in time with our eating. So it backfires, really.

Amy Connell: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's goes back to those little studies with kids of like, you can play with the red truck and the blue truck, but not the yellow track. And so what do they do when the, when the adults leave the room is they play with the yellow track. 

Kristin Williams: Exactly. Exactly right.

Amy Connell: Okay. Now I want to take this concept of challenging the food police, which I think And concept sounds wonderful to so many of us, but then layer that on with some of the nutritional information that we do know and say you know, there's a lot of stuff coming out about.

Ultra processed for foods, you know, foods that are, have a lot of ingredients that we're not really familiar with that are, that's made in a factory that can sit on your shelf for three months. I mean, like all of that kind of stuff. And. you know, I think from a, and correct or clarify me if I'm wrong, but from a, like a nutritional biologic state, I'm not sure if I'm using that the right words correctly.

Like we can identify that those are not as beneficial to our body and As whole foods and when I, not the, not the grocery store, like foods that are that God gave us, you know, foods that are like one ingredient or something like that. So how do we deal with this food police like, Oh, you really shouldn't be having, this has been sitting on your shelf for three months.

You shouldn't have this because this you know, the strawberries are better, or you should have a Buddha bowl or, you know, things that are. Are beneficial to our body, but we've got this narrative in our head. Does that 

Kristin Williams: Yeah, it makes complete sense that kind of two different thoughts are coming to mind one I think it's important for your listeners to distinguish there's a difference between mindfulness and obsession and Mindfulness is really more of the awareness. You know, I love how you word things often in your podcast and in your books of Foods that help you feel and function well. And so I think that mindfulness with food and our health and foods that are nourishing for our bodies is a really good beneficial thing. Uh, I think that's very different from obsessiveness and preoccupation. And I really think the food police is found more in that, Preoccupation obsession place, and there's a lot of shame there as well, and I think that's where some of the misconception comes in with intuitive eating in general is people assume. Well, then I'm just, are you telling me I shouldn't think about this at all? I just don't care. And, and that's not what I'm saying. I care very much about health or I wouldn't be in the field, but I do think it's important to make those distinctions. What is mindfulness and what is obsession? And normally. The food police kind of that clean eating movement that kind of falls more under the obsession category. And I also think another thought there that it's important for people to realize not all foods are nutritionally equal. We know that, you know, a whole food item that might go bad within a few days is compared to something that you mentioned, you know, that has a shelf life of forever, that they may not be nutritionally equal. And that's okay, but the goal is that they would be emotionally equal. Meaning, I don't feel a sense of, you know, pride or self righteousness because I, you know, ate clean. But, but with quotes, but I also don't feel a sense of guilt or shame that I ate, you know, the Twinkie that doesn't expire.

Amy Connell: Oh, okay. I feel like we can just stop right there. I mean, that was so good. Like not nutritionally equal, but emotionally Yes. And that is a game that really is a game changer for Yeah. And

Kristin Williams: so, Cause then it's like, okay, I'm just going to choose not. Have the food police in my head.

right. And again, when I think of the Food Police, I think of shame. And most of the time, shame just keeps us in that behavior that we're trying so hard to get out of.

Amy Connell: Do you have any guidance or tips? I hate the word tips, even though I use pro tip in my book for teen girls, but like, cause I know everything is so nuanced. Right. But okay. We're ready to get rid of the food police. Now what? Help it walk us through this.

Kristin Williams: So, maybe some, like a practical starting place. I will sometimes have people list either specific foods. I call them, quote unquote, fear foods. Foods that I enjoy eating or at one time enjoyed eating. But there is a fear that I will be out of control. There is a fear that I will gain weight. There is a fear.

It will affect my health, whatever it may be. And then taking that a step further, looking at each of those specific foods and asking myself, and I would encourage your listeners to actually write this out. What are the rules that I have associated with those foods? Or they can even, You know, skip to step two and just as many rules as you can think of, because they may not be food specific. It might be timing specific or calorie specific or based on whether or not you moved your body that day. As many food rules as you can think about. And then from there, Asking the question one rule at a time. Where did this come from? It is

insane to me How many clients have been following rules for years and cannot identify? Where it even came from or what is the reason that it's benefiting them? And so where did this come from? Maybe it came from my mom. Maybe it came from you know, I don't know, a friend or the cheerleading squad or what, you know, social media. What are my underlying thoughts and beliefs about this rule? What are the rules? Where did it come from? What are my underlying thoughts and beliefs about this rule? And then do I believe that rule to be true? Or do I want to challenge it? And so, and why I think it's beneficial. And then a practical example, I think sometimes there's so much noise in our head that we don't even have an awareness of what is the food police and what is not.

And so to get it out on paper or computer and to be able to really create space between ourselves and the rules, then we're really able to look at them with a critical eye and evaluate, okay, are these things I believe or not? And an example might be that a rule might be. Don't eat past X PM in the evening. Where did that come from? An Instagram influencer. Okay. What are my thoughts and beliefs about that? Well, I believe that if I eat after X PM, I'm going to gain weight. It's going to be stored directly as fat. Okay. Do I believe this to be true? I don't think so. How do I want to challenge that? Well, my body doesn't technically know what time of the day it is.

And, you know, if I'm eating based off of hunger, then it probably would be appropriate to eat regardless of the time. Or if I hadn't had enough to eat throughout the day, it'd be appropriate to eat, you know, no matter what time it is and all of these different things to begin challenging that narrative.

Amy Connell: okay. That's really good. I like that a lot. One thought I had as you were talking about is as I am learning more about nutrition for perimenopause, postmenopausal women, I'm also realizing that so much of the, of the research out there is done on And so a lot of the things that we have heard are not even applicable to us as women. And you and I were talking before we hit record that, you know, I wrote this book, your worthy body and I love it and I'm so proud of it, but there's some stuff in there that wish I could change. And one of them is talking about intermittent fasting.

That's not something I practice anymore. It's not. And it's not something, it is something that is. 100 percent not recommended for menopausal, you know, for perimenopause and beyond women. Because all the research was done on men. And so that I'll just leave there. I'm sure you'd want to discuss that in general, but you know, like, even with that, like, where did you hear it?

And was that information even applicable to you, whether or not you. Yeah. You know, whether or not we agree or condone not eating when we're hungry. So we'll just leave that to the side. Cause yeah, to be clear when you're hungry, you should 

Kristin Williams: Yeah, absolutely.

Amy Connell: want to be very clear about that. I do follow that now, but I don't know if that's making sense, but I think that we have to discern the age and the stage and the research and, and all of that kind of stuff as well of like, where did, where did we hear it?

And add that level of nuance on it. 

Kristin Williams: I mean, even as you're talking, I'm thinking like the ketogenic diet originated for people with epilepsy.

Amy Connell: Right. And it's highly effective with people Yes, to prevent seizures. And so you know, I think, I think also that's where there's so many different voices of the food police. So many rules. We get information overload. We feel overwhelmed. And so we just do nothing, know?

right? Yeah, exactly. Or it just becomes obsessive. Like you said, Kristen. Okay. I've got a couple more questions for you, but before we get to those I do want to let people know of some a few resources you have, one of them is you have written a book called unworthy weight. I will put that in the show notes and just for whatever it's worth, if you're listening and interested in getting that I'm going to link to Kristen's website as an author that is more helpful and beneficial to Kristen than if you purchase from Amazon.

So if you have just a hair of patience and you can wait on the shipping, I know that that would be helpful. To Kristen as well. And then also Kristen did and conference and Kristen, I'll ask if you can explain it in like one or two sentences called in his image conference that you have generously offered 50 percent off the playback.

So this was from last fall. So tell people a little bit about that conference and what they can expect with that.

Kristin Williams: Yeah. So in his image is a body image conference for teen girls and women, and it is recorded. So the live version took place in Dallas in October, but it is recorded and available for playback. And so we had a day of worship and then we had, I think, Maybe around 5 different speakers talking on the topic of this is all from a Christ centered approach, talking on the topic of worth and identity body image.

We had a podcast mashup where we heard from some different podcasters on the topic and, was just able to do kind of like a Q and A with questions that they had. And then we had a men's panel, which was kind of unique this year where a dad of a client, a husband of a client, and then a male therapist were able to speak into body image concerns specifically for women and the loved ones in their life.

And so Like, like you mentioned, Amy, that's available for playback for anyone that's interested. And then I've also had like girls, youth groups that have watched it together and kind of done discussions off of it. There are some handouts with discussion questions. And so available

to watch at your own pace.

Amy Connell: Awesome. That is great. Okay. Real quickly, tell people how they can connect with you. Okay.

Kristin Williams: Yeah, you can find my website at www. wonderfullymadenutritioncounseling. com. I'm also on Instagram at wonderfullymadenutrition and then on Facebook at wonderfullymadenutritioncounseling. I

Amy Connell: Awesome. And I'll have all of that in the show notes. Okay, Kristen, what's the one simple thing you want us to remember about the food police and challenging the food police?

Kristin Williams: think, I don't know if it's simple, Amy. But I think the one takeaway that I want your listeners to remember is you have to first have an awareness. that the food police is even there before you can do anything about it. So just even if you're like, okay, I understand there is such thing as a food police.

I can kind of identify where it's coming from, but I don't know what to do with it. I want you to be encouraged that you have done the first step, and that is to be aware of the food police, whether again, that's internally or externally, because you can't get very far without that awareness piece.

Amy Connell: Good point. Great place to start. Okay. That is all for today. Go out there and have a graced day.

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