John Carpenter

00:00:00
Speaker 1: The Questlove Show is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Questlove Show. We are taping live in Los Angeles at the iHeart Studio's So the feedback that we've gotten for the Jamie Lee Curtis episode sparked a few ideas. And when she mentioned our esteemed guests today, we decided to go full circle. And it goes without saying that, of course, he is, without a doubt, a legendary filmmaker, actor, music composer, a Cannes Film Golden Coach recipient, which is none the slouch at. And, of course, native of Bowling Green, whose star is Sits really, literally just down the street on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Of course, his iconic filmography includes, of course, the Halloween series, The Thing, Christine, Escape from New York, my personal favorite, Starman. That doesn't get mentioned enough. And now he's going into a new foray into literature. We love Pivoteer at QLS, and he remains an incomparable force in horror and sci-fi, and he joins us today to discuss his first graphic novel and the companion album with it called Cathedral, which is published by Storm King's Comics, incidentally founded by his wife, Sandy King. And what else can I say? Thank you very much, John Carpenter, for coming to the Course Love Show.

00:01:44
Speaker 2: Good to see you, man. Good to see you. How did Jamie Lee's episode go?

00:01:48
Speaker 1: She's very epic.

00:01:49
Speaker 2: How does that mean? You know, she....

00:01:52
Speaker 1: She comes with a giant bowl of wisdom, a lot of stories. You know, she talked about her beginnings. It's good to see her realize in real time that she's realizing she's Jamie Lee Curtis. I mean, oftentimes we tend to duck our light to not make people feel bad when you're shining, but no, she was great.

00:02:13
Speaker 2: Did you have anybody with her to verify these stories? No. They may not be, well.

00:02:19
Speaker 1: Oh, embellished? No.

00:02:21
Speaker 2: They may be slightly embellished. I don't know.

00:02:23
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no. I have to ask you, people, of course, often ask you about your films, but first of all, why did you feel the need to make your first graphic novel?

00:02:34
Speaker 2: Well, the album comes first. Right, okay. I had this dream, and it was the plot of Cathedral. I told my godson and my son, we have a band together. I said, why don't we do something that I don't know anybody has done, which is we'll score the graphic novel. So we came out with this album, which is coming out this year. And my wife and her comic minions are putting out the comic book. And I'm sitting and playing video games while they do that.

00:03:09
Speaker 1: Are you what they call a head? Are you a video game head?

00:03:13
Speaker 2: Huge. Really? For years.

00:03:15
Speaker 1: When did this first start?

00:03:17
Speaker 2: 92. I was up in Inverness, California, and I was playing for the first time Sonic the Hedgehog. And I didn't know you needed a save card, a way to save it. So I kept repeating it over and over. And that's how I kind of learned how to play. Okay. And my son would beat me. He was... Hand-eye coordination is incredible. And I picked up a little bit from him. So, yeah. Okay.

00:03:45
Speaker 1: Where did your relationship with, like, comics and illustration begin?

00:03:49
Speaker 2: Comics, well, way back. Way, way back. Before you were born, before everybody in this room was born. Okay. And way back to the early Marvel days in D.C. Oh, great stuff. Great stuff.

00:04:02
Speaker 1: How big is your collection?

00:04:04
Speaker 2: I don't have really a collection. Really? I have discarded things over the years.

00:04:09
Speaker 1: So you're not sentimental at all? I mean, minus your, hopefully you've kept mementos of your own.

00:04:14
Speaker 2: I have. I have.

00:04:16
Speaker 1: Do you still have the mask, the original?

00:04:18
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you.

00:04:21
Speaker 1: Why not?

00:04:22
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm just not going to tell you. Okay. But I've got a lot of the stuff from early movies, and I do keep that.

00:04:30
Speaker 1: So as a filmmaker, do you enjoy the storyboarding process at all, or is it just— Enjoy?

00:04:36
Speaker 2: Enjoy.

00:04:37
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I mean. Is it a means to an end or do you enjoy like the process that leads up to the journey that leads to the destination?

00:04:45
Speaker 2: I hear you. I used a storyboard in the beginning, but then after a while, I kind of know how to do it now. You don't need a storyboard. I can see it by, you know, visualize it from the script. I've directed a lot of movies. So directing is a crushing emotional experience on you. You're responsible for all these things. for all day long. It's $ 150, 000 a day that you're spending to get the story done. So it's a huge responsibility. And then at the end of the day, when you go to show it, there's only one person that everybody looks at in blames or whatever. That's the director at the end of the hallway with his film cans in his hand. And that was me.

00:05:32
Speaker 1: I know now the way that we document things, like get an idea, say, into our phones or everything. But in the late 70s and early 80s, could you just walk me through what your creative process was when you first get a spark for an idea? How do you mold what was a spark into the final product?

00:05:53
Speaker 2: Interesting. I was told to write my way into the movie business. So I started in the early 70s, and I had a pretty good scheme going. I would get a deal to write a first draft, And I would do nothing for three months. And then one night I'd do an outline, and the next night I'd write it and turn it in. And a bunch of movies came out of that. It was a great way of doing it. And I was just a guy for hire. And along comes this low-budget horror movie, and they wanted to do it in 20 days and so forth. So that was Halloween. And I did that, and then I was off and running. So it kind of, it's hard to say. It's a combination of being practical and imagining things in your head that I had practiced from when I was little.

00:06:49
Speaker 1: Because of the way that a particular genre works, and I know that every script worth its grain of salt has to start with a good story, no matter what effects you put into it. But in terms of horror films, are you thinking more or less ways of inventive ways for your character or protagonist to frighten or to.

00:07:11
Speaker 2: Do things to people? It has to come out of the story. It has to come out of the story. If you don't care about the characters in the story, if you're not involved, you're dead. You have to get the audience involved with the characters. They have to identify with somebody that they want to survive or whatever or meet the quest. And you go from there. But it's, you know, there's a The screenplay is generally 120 pages, three acts. First act, you set the problem. Second act, you complicate it. Third act, you resolve it. And that's generally true for every movie. Okay.

00:07:51
Speaker 1: All right, so you co-wrote Cathedral with your wife, Sandy.

00:07:54
Speaker 2: Well, no, I wrote the original outline, the story, the dream. It was my dream. Okay. And I wrote it, and then I handed that to Sandy and said, hey. How about a comic? And so she's been working on that. Okay. That's a hard, hard damn job.

00:08:11
Speaker 1: Well, I was going to say, someone who's not married yet, how do you balance this high-stakes work life at a home with someone that you're collaborating with so closely, like in terms of church and state?

00:08:24
Speaker 2: We've been at it for over 40 years, so it's second nature. And you've got to have somebody you trust. That's what it's all about, somebody to tell you the truth. She'll tell me the truth.

00:08:36
Speaker 1: We got you.

00:08:38
Speaker 2: By the way, I understand you did documentaries on the summer of soul. Was that it? Now, I was a teenager. I grew up with Motown. Are you familiar with Motown?

00:08:48
Speaker 1: Of course.

00:08:49
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but you're a young man.

00:08:52
Speaker 1: I'm flattered. You think so.

00:08:53
Speaker 2: Go ahead. When I grew up, I wanted to sing like Levi Stubbs. Do you know who he is?

00:08:57
Speaker 1: Of the Four Tops.

00:08:57
Speaker 2: Yep.

00:08:58
Speaker 1: I inherited his record collection.

00:09:00
Speaker 2: You did?

00:09:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. My partner in the roots is good friends with his daughter.

00:09:05
Speaker 2: Oh, is that right?

00:09:05
Speaker 1: So when he passed, I often get the record collections.

00:09:09
Speaker 2: I see, I see.

00:09:10
Speaker 1: Of people who pass away. We don't know the doobies.

00:09:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. I give them to you. Lee, oh, his voice. Oh, I couldn't believe it. And then Holland Dozer. Holland, songwriters. Yeah. You don't get better than that. And then it went away. It all went away.

00:09:26
Speaker 1: I know you started out as a musician first. What is your true passion? And then what is.

00:09:31
Speaker 2: No, my muse is the movies. In 1956, I was eight years old. I saw a movie and I decided I'm going to be a movie director.

00:09:40
Speaker 1: What was the movie that?

00:09:41
Speaker 2: A Forbidden Planet. Okay. It's a science fiction film.

00:09:44
Speaker 1: What was it about it that called you?

00:09:46
Speaker 2: Everything. It was in color, widescreen, had an invisible monster, had a beautiful girl. I mean, it had everything you want. And from then on, movies was my drive. But I grew up, my dad... was a music teacher, so I grew up around music, and it's second nature to me. So I got to film school, and we don't have any money in film school, just no money at all. So I would do music for others and myself because I– I was cheap, and I could play on a synthesizer. That's how it started.

00:10:24
Speaker 1: So in a cathedral, this takes place at an abandoned church in Los Angeles. Did you go out to source churches or explore them at all?

00:10:35
Speaker 2: No. Well, down near SC, there's a huge, huge cathedral down there. It's beautiful. And I've always noticed it walking by it. And I kind of in my head, I dreamt about that. But it's a ridiculously convoluted, it's not convoluted, it's a cop goes and investigates her father's death and discovers an underworld and a demon and all sorts of dark things.

00:11:05
Speaker 1: You said the word dream a lot. So I have to ask you because I would say that you've done your fair share of using your creativity to invade people's Dreams. Are you a person that has the same recurring dream over and over again?

00:11:19
Speaker 2: Sometimes, yeah.

00:11:21
Speaker 1: What is the dream that recurs over and over again?

00:11:23
Speaker 2: Well, there are two of them. Well, I'm in a big city, and I'm looking for the movie district where the movie theaters are. Okay. But I can't find it. And then I do, but they're all closed down because it's not working anymore out there. The cinema's dying.

00:11:40
Speaker 1: That's a nightmare.

00:11:42
Speaker 2: I know. Well, no, but this is what I dreamed. And then sometimes I dream I'm in a big city that I get lost in and that kind of thing.

00:11:52
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just getting into the world of film right now. And, of course, we're in Los Angeles. And pretty much everyone that I've talked to, you know, the film business is basically telling me, like, they keep calling it, like, the idea of Hollywood.

00:12:07
Speaker 2: Wait a minute. Now, are you getting in the film business?

00:12:09
Speaker 1: Well, not.

00:12:10
Speaker 2: What are you doing?

00:12:10
Speaker 1: No, no, no.

00:12:12
Speaker 2: Tell me all about it.

00:12:13
Speaker 1: Well, you know, half the people shoot in Atlanta or any part of Canada.

00:12:19
Speaker 2: Cheap, yeah. Right.

00:12:20
Speaker 1: But for you, I mean, a lot of your films are set in Southern California for the past five decades. So, like, how has the version of L.A. that you started with in terms of shooting changed? Like, do you still see this town as a good resource of material to shoot the things that you want to?

00:12:43
Speaker 2: Absolutely. You know, when I got here, it was in 1968. So it was, you'd walk down Sunset Boulevard and guys would be in the shadow saying, acid, acid, you know, trying to sell you. Right. Now it's, I don't know, it's Disneyland kind of now. It's all friendly now. And it's not dangerous anymore, kind of.

00:13:08
Speaker 1: So you like the grit?

00:13:10
Speaker 2: I love Los Angeles. I got here and I said, this is home. This is my home.

00:13:15
Speaker 1: And you still love it?

00:13:17
Speaker 2: Love it at Levitt's, dude. Love it at Levitt's. Love it at Levitt's.

00:13:20
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, what do you know about love it at Levitt's? Objects are a thing that play a vital part in most of your films. For instance, The Perfect Church or A Car Like Christine. What is it about... In terms of your storyline having a particular object. Like in the case of Christine, like how did you decide that the car was going to be that particular object?

00:13:43
Speaker 2: Well, it was based on a story by Stephen King. He wrote Christine. So I was just a drusher for hire on that baby. It wasn't mine.

00:13:53
Speaker 1: So that wasn't a collaboration with you two?

00:13:55
Speaker 2: No. Okay. It was written by somebody. And really a talented screenwriter. But let's get back to you now. What are you doing?

00:14:02
Speaker 1: You can't deflect. I'm here to get wisdom from you.

00:14:05
Speaker 2: I want to know.

00:14:06
Speaker 1: Yes.

00:14:07
Speaker 2: What are you doing in the movie business? What role? Are you playing music?

00:14:12
Speaker 1: No, I'm directing.

00:14:13
Speaker 2: You're directing? I'm directing. Holy Toledo, mama.

00:14:16
Speaker 1: Yes. Really?

00:14:18
Speaker 2: Tell me all about it, young man.

00:14:20
Speaker 1: I see what you're doing here. No, no, no.

00:14:23
Speaker 2: No, no. I want to know.

00:14:27
Speaker 1: You don't want to talk about yourself. No, I mean, right now I feel like I have a duty, which is, I guess around 2018, these gentlemen approached me about doing a documentary for a music film. And of course, as with everything I do in my life, I try to talk myself out of it because I didn't think I was worthy enough or had the- Not hear you. Had the know-how, but you know, a lot of people told me that a lot of people learn just by getting thrown in the lake and you got to swim your way out of it. And once it worked- Then became the challenge of, do I continue or was that a one and done? I thought it was going to be a one and done.

00:15:06
Speaker 2: You did another one, right?

00:15:07
Speaker 1: I did three more.

00:15:08
Speaker 2: I did. Well, now each one has been celebrated, right? Yes. Okay. Are you going to do documentaries? Is that what you're talking about? Or drama? No, no.

00:15:17
Speaker 1: Well, I've done four documentaries. I just finished the Earth, Wind and Fire story.

00:15:23
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

00:15:24
Speaker 1: I already did the Sly and the Family Stone story. But for me, I'm trying to figure out a way. I mean, there's a term they use called edutainment. Education, edutainment. I know it seems somewhat pretentious.

00:15:38
Speaker 2: That's okay.

00:15:38
Speaker 1: But for me, it's important. I am one of those people that wags their fingers at young people occasionally for just having discontent for history and that sort of thing. Do they? See, I don't know.

00:15:50
Speaker 2: Because I have no idea what they have contempt for. I feel as though.

00:15:55
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, maybe I'm coming from an envious place. I think I'm the last generation that was forced to learn the entire history of the past. Like growing up in music, you know, my dad made me, I saw it as, you know, my first punishment was listening to a John Coltrane record.

00:16:15
Speaker 2: Punishment?

00:16:16
Speaker 1: Punishment.

00:16:17
Speaker 2: You hated that, huh?

00:16:18
Speaker 1: I mean, when you're 12 years old and you want to listen to Prince and your father's like, no.

00:16:24
Speaker 3: Oh, fuck.

00:16:26
Speaker 2: Come on, man. Yeah.

00:16:28
Speaker 1: So I saw jazz as punishment when I.

00:16:31
Speaker 2: Was 11 and 12. I see. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you.

00:16:33
Speaker 1: But of course, when I got older, I was grateful for that education.

00:16:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:38
Speaker 1: But I want to do it in a way that seems appealing and not like someone trying to force their art and their lifestyle and their point of view on you.

00:16:48
Speaker 2: Edutainment? Is that it?

00:16:49
Speaker 1: Edutainment, yes.

00:16:50
Speaker 2: I gotcha. Okay.

00:16:52
Speaker 1: Makes sense.

00:16:52
Speaker 2: Makes sense now.

00:16:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically, I'll say it this way. Summer of Soul, of course, attracts people because it's a festival. But I'm trying to teach people the value of joy. Kind of an emotion that most human beings, especially in 2020, were trying to avoid. With the Sly and the Family Stone documentary, I wanted to focus on self-sabotage. Why do certain people... Yeah. get to a plateau and then they sabotage it. And Earth, Wind and Fire, I'm very interested in how metaphysics works. The idea of not talking to a higher source, but meditating and getting ideas and silence, how silence can be something that saves you.

00:17:39
Speaker 2: So That's kind of Eastern philosophy type deal, isn't it? Maybe.

00:17:44
Speaker 1: Somewhat. I mean, it's not under the sort of the Westernized spiritual practice that we do here. So now can I finish asking my question?

00:17:52
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I'm sorry.

00:17:54
Speaker 1: A back and forth? No, I like having a conversation. But my people already know about me. So this is where they start rolling their eyes and, you know. What was your first musical memory?

00:18:16
Speaker 2: Musical memory? Oh, my God. Yeah. My dad playing music in our house. That's what I remember. And classics. I remember the classic Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, that kind of stuff. And I fell in love with Bach. And unfortunately, my dad... had an idea that I should learn to play the violin at eight years old. Now, he was a violinist. I was not. I had no talent. And unfortunately, he made me try. It didn't work out. So I went on from there to pick up various instruments. And I have mid-level chops. My son has incredible chops. He can play anything. But I don't have that. But I have, I don't know. imagination. I can write songs.

00:19:12
Speaker 1: So, so you said for this particular project that, uh, it started out first as a music project, then the.

00:19:19
Speaker 2: Cathedral you're talking now. Yeah.

00:19:21
Speaker 1: Cathedral.

00:19:22
Speaker 2: I tried this dream. I told the dream to my kids and my son and God's son. And they said, well, let's do this. It came out very heavy metal album and a lot of guitars. And, uh, We just followed the story, wrote the story out, and followed it musically. We're trying that now. Another album coming out next year. Same thing, same idea.

00:19:47
Speaker 1: You're one of the few people I know that not only takes the helm as far as developing your movies, but you also wound up scoring your films as well. Most notably, you probably created the most iconic. Most people think of your Halloween score in terms of what does Halloween sound like. Can you talk about Just the process of how you created those three notes on piano into.

00:20:13
Speaker 2: Halloween. 13 years old, my dad gave me a pair of bongos for Christmas. And he said, let me teach you 5-4 time. Halloween. So I took that and sat down at the piano. And that's how it was born.

00:20:35
Speaker 1: So just... Without thinking, you just chose those two particular notes.

00:20:39
Speaker 2: Yeah. But my dad had to teach me 5-4. I didn't know what he was talking about. But that's where it came from.

00:20:46
Speaker 1: Okay, so especially in my world, in the sort of the age of sampling and 90s hip-hop, I mean, Ice-T used it, Dr. Dre used it, like a lot of people use that. Were you yourself, like were you clearing these samples?

00:21:02
Speaker 2: No, and they owe me. Money.

00:21:05
Speaker 1: Wait, you've never cleared the- No.

00:21:09
Speaker 2: Do you believe that? Oh, boy. Well, no one asked me. Okay.

00:21:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it was a gold rush Wild Wild West period in the early 90s.

00:21:17
Speaker 2: It was, and there wasn't a lot of permission asking about it. It was about a lot of doing and a lot of stealing going on, and I just sat there like a dummy. But, you know, what am I going to do?

00:21:29
Speaker 1: Okay. I'll change the subject. That's okay.

00:21:32
Speaker 2: We can continue to talk about that if you want.

00:21:35
Speaker 1: No, no, no.

00:21:35
Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm good.

00:21:36
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about the Coupe de Ville's?

00:21:39
Speaker 2: Sure.

00:21:39
Speaker 1: Your project with Tommy Lee Wallace and Nick. Nick Castle. Yes, of course.

00:21:44
Speaker 2: Nick Castle is the shape, by the way, in Halloween. He is the original shape, Nick Castle. Really? And a director, too. He directed The Last Starfighter. You might know that movie. Okay. Well, we started singing together and- Film school. And we made an album. It's not very good, but it's our album. And we still can sing together. And that's what it is. It's a little amateur group. But if you want to own your own Coupe de Ville album, you can send me money. Okay. And I'll give you a post office box where the money can come in and we can take care of you.

00:22:25
Speaker 1: Okay. All right. The one thing that Jamie Lee did talk about. was just the environment of what independent films were compared to the big budget. Now, in the music world, I happen to believe that the best thing for any artist is to have limitations in terms of budget.

00:22:48
Speaker 2: You think so? Oh, wow.

00:22:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I've heard many an artist that has become a god, and they got that way, making bedroom demos or stuff worn, subpar equipment. And the second you put them in a very professional studio sound, then it becomes, it's not special anymore. It's not unique. So what is the stress level that, what is the stress level you feel when you are, you said that you're dealing with like 150,000 a day. Like when you're writing, Do you have to sometimes limit your imagination because you know that you won't be able to afford a particular.

00:23:33
Speaker 2: Don't do it then. Do it later.

00:23:34
Speaker 1: Do you limit yourself when you write the script?

00:23:36
Speaker 2: Nope. Nope. Nope. Go for it. Just do it. Write it. And then later when we're budgeting, we can say, well, we may not want that scene or we may change it. You see?

00:23:49
Speaker 1: Have you ever had to lie to a producer because of a shot that you really believed in that you knew would be very costly?

00:23:55
Speaker 2: Well. No, I was pretty much in charge of all my movies, except for a couple. So, you know, I was the boss. So I wouldn't have to ask anybody. But I would use my knowledge or my whatever, my instincts to figure out, well, that may be too much for us to try. You know, that may be something we can't do. I remember we were doing Escape from L.A. and I had a surfing scene. And everybody said, oh, that won't be in the final movie. And I said, well, why not? We can do that. So we did. Depends.

00:24:33
Speaker 1: Which film would you say was probably the most stressful to, from soup to nuts, to like get completed in?

00:24:41
Speaker 2: Well, the hardest was the thing because we shot on glaciers up in the northern, near the Arctic. So that was rough. It was rough on everybody. But every movie is a stressful film. Every movie. And the more, the longer you make movies, the more stress it is. So anyway, I don't want to complain. I want to be happy.

00:25:12
Speaker 1: Well, no, no, no. I mean, you're allowed to complain, but, you know, realistically. I need to know these things.

00:25:18
Speaker 2: No, if you make a drama with actors. Oh, my God. Because that just complicates everything. You've got to get these people in costume and makeup every morning. You get them on the set and you rehearse. And they may have a little issue with you. I don't want to come in that door. I want to come in this door over here.

00:25:42
Speaker 1: You give them agency to offer their? No, no, no.

00:25:45
Speaker 2: I don't.

00:25:46
Speaker 1: I was like.

00:25:47
Speaker 2: No, no, no. But I'm just telling you sometimes.

00:25:51
Speaker 1: But have you had a situation where someone might give you unsolicited two cents?

00:25:56
Speaker 2: Sure. I have.

00:25:57
Speaker 1: How do you Jedi mind trick them out of it?

00:25:59
Speaker 2: I don't Jedi mind trick them. I'm really hard on them.

00:26:03
Speaker 1: Okay. So they know.

00:26:04
Speaker 2: You direct it. Go ahead right now. You direct it. I'm doing my movie. And I just stop it. Okay.

00:26:14
Speaker 1: I'll use the word cheap right now, but what cheap filmmaking tool do you?

00:26:19
Speaker 2: Cheap. I love cheap.

00:26:20
Speaker 1: Well, what cheap filmmaking tool do you most admire in terms of like thinking quick on your feet to make something happen?

00:26:28
Speaker 2: I admire the one thing that Steven Spielberg does that I really admire is he understands how to compose master shots so that you don't have to do a lot of close-ups. It's unbelievable. I wish I had his talent at doing that.

00:26:49
Speaker 1: In terms of like aerial shots?

00:26:51
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. Just if you have two or three people talking, he has a way of, you do the whole scene and you'll watch it because it's just really well done. That's something that's cheap because you're done. Hey, hey, let's move on.

00:27:04
Speaker 1: I'm familiar with the story, but can you tell the story of the William Shatner mask, like how that came to be?

00:27:12
Speaker 2: William Shatner.

00:27:14
Speaker 1: Was it the William Shatner mask?

00:27:15
Speaker 2: Sure, of course it was. We didn't know what we were going to do with this Michael Myers character, so Tommy Lee Wallace, my art director, went down to Burt Wheeler's Magic Shop right up the street from us here and bought two masks, a clown mask and a Shatner mask. But he painted the Shatner mask, and he screwed around with the hair. Okay. And he said, which one do we lie? Well, there's no question. The Shatner mask is eerie. It looks like a ghost of some sort.

00:27:47
Speaker 1: Did Shatner eventually find out that?

00:27:49
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, he knows.

00:27:50
Speaker 1: What was his reaction?

00:27:52
Speaker 2: I have no clue. Okay. I met Shatner. I went up to him in Orlando at a convention. I said, Mr. Shatner, I'm John Carpenter. And he was looking at his phone and did not look up. Did not look up at me and said, pleasure, and just kept going. And I thought, you know what? F you, pal.

00:28:11
Speaker 1: Yeah. No.

00:28:13
Speaker 2: Yes. I'm telling you the truth.

00:28:15
Speaker 1: That is your– Forget it.

00:28:17
Speaker 2: Forget it. Wow. I don't care what you think. Why did I tell that story? It's a terrible story. Shatner is a wonderful human being.

00:28:26
Speaker 1: There you go.

00:28:26
Speaker 2: See? There you go. I'm going to be a Hollywood about this.

00:28:29
Speaker 1: All right. So when you get a budget, what was your greatest extravagance? Well, you spoke of the thing, which I think.

00:28:36
Speaker 2: Is– They made, that was $ 15 million at the time.

00:28:40
Speaker 1: Was it scary to have that much?

00:28:42
Speaker 2: No, it's not scary. No, you just have more tools. You don't suddenly get a magic carpet or a red carpet that you walk in on. You don't get driven to the set in a limo. It's not like that. It's the same, except you have more tools at your disposal, more time. Filmmaking is time. A lot of it is. How much time do I have in this scene? Can I get this scene done in one day, five days, a week? Some movies take almost a year to make, you know, and you just imagine that movie that Russell Crowe made, Gladiator. Yes. Almost a year. And that was huge. And to do that is.

00:29:32
Speaker 2: I don't have the patience for it anymore.

00:29:33
Speaker 1: I was going to say, if presented with, I mean, I'm not saying Lawrence of Arabia style. or size, but if presented with that, would you want to handle that sort of, would you see that as a headache or a burden?

00:29:47
Speaker 2: Headache, big headache. I would get somebody I trust and say, you direct that.

00:29:52
Speaker 1: All right, so what is it about those big budget epic films that would sort of Give you pause.

00:30:02
Speaker 2: If you have a line in the script, a famous, the Russian army comes over the hill. Yeah. Well, you have to get the Russian army out there and bring them over the hill. And that is insane to do. And if you have a script filled with that, it's horrifying. I want to get back to your documentaries now. What's the new one you're going to make?

00:30:25
Speaker 1: What are you thinking? My HBO series. Earth, Wind & Fire film comes out in July.

00:30:30
Speaker 2: You've done that. I want to know the future.

00:30:33
Speaker 1: I technically cannot say what the next project is.

00:30:36
Speaker 2: Yes, you can.

00:30:37
Speaker 1: No, I can't.

00:30:39
Speaker 2: I know you can.

00:30:39
Speaker 1: I've signed many an NDA.

00:30:40
Speaker 2: You can tell me.

00:30:42
Speaker 1: I'll tell you off camera.

00:30:44
Speaker 2: No, no. Tell me now. I won't tell anybody.

00:30:46
Speaker 1: This next one will be a four-parter.

00:30:48
Speaker 2: Oh, great.

00:30:50
Speaker 1: And it's going to take a study into 40 years of music. The evolution of.

00:30:57
Speaker 1: Music told within a four decade. Okay, so the way that I see music. What I don't want to do is I don't want to be the grumpy person that my dad wound up being. So my dad.

00:31:10
Speaker 2: Buys- Why was he grumpy?

00:31:12
Speaker 1: There's a Stevie Wonder record. Okay, do you know what a departure album is?

00:31:16
Speaker 2: A departure album?

00:31:17
Speaker 1: A departure album. Okay, so when someone makes an epic album or an epic statement, And sometimes the fear or the pressure of following up seeps in.

00:31:29
Speaker 2: Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure.

00:31:30
Speaker 1: Subconsciously, they'll make the art record or the classic, like they'll make the album that they're not known for kind of as a way to, you know, I'll quit before you fire me. Probably the best example, the very first Departure album was Sgt. Pepper's.

00:31:46
Speaker 2: I see.

00:31:46
Speaker 1: We're tired of being the Beatles, so let's do a bunch of Tin Pan Alley Show tunes, and then it backfires and becomes more successful.

00:31:52
Speaker 2: Tin Pan Alley Show Tunes. Tin Pan Alley Show Tunes. Are you kidding me?

00:31:57
Speaker 1: What do you think the benefit for Mr. Kite or When I'm 64 is? Drugs, dude.

00:32:03
Speaker 2: You weren't alive at that time. You don't know.

00:32:06
Speaker 1: Well, it was three years before I was born.

00:32:08
Speaker 2: Oh, get out of here. Tin Pan Alley. Get out of here.

00:32:12
Speaker 1: Do you not hear Tin Pan Alley in Saturday When I'm 64?

00:32:16
Speaker 3: No. No?

00:32:17
Speaker 2: Nope. I don't hear that.

00:32:19
Speaker 1: So that's just LSD talking?

00:32:21
Speaker 2: Well, partially. Or marijuana. There are other drugs that they started taking, experimenting.

00:32:27
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:32:27
Speaker 2: Tin pan alley. Can't believe you said that.

00:32:31
Speaker 1: Well, damn, you're just knocking my jingo to the floor all over the place.

00:32:35
Speaker 2: But no, you make something and it gets awards. I make something, it gets damned, so... You know, what am I talking about?

00:32:41
Speaker 1: You have a can in your house. I mean, a can acknowledges you.

00:32:46
Speaker 2: Oh, a can, yeah.

00:32:46
Speaker 1: Yes, that's nothing to scoff at.

00:32:49
Speaker 2: That was neat, that was neat.

00:32:50
Speaker 1: Well, the whole point was that Stevie Wonder made an art record after Songs in the Key of Life.

00:32:55
Speaker 2: Which was the art record?

00:32:56
Speaker 1: It's called Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants.

00:32:59
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I know about that, yeah.

00:33:01
Speaker 1: For me, as a nine-year-old, I thought it was brilliant because I never had a Dark Side of the Moon record. experience with music where you put headphones on and you imagine you see things or whatever. I loved it. My dad was like, I don't hear no hits.

00:33:16
Speaker 2: And he decided.

00:33:18
Speaker 1: I'm no longer buying records. So he just stopped. He went from a shopper and he just, so I don't want to be that person. And oftentimes, even though music is plentiful, the cost of finding good quality art at least the kind that satisfies me, is a daunting task. And at my age, I mean, I'm in my mid-50s right now.

00:33:41
Speaker 2: Child. Yes.

00:33:44
Speaker 1: But I'm trying to hang on. Like, well, how do you feel right now, especially with how easy it is? Like, this phone is the same film capabilities of the first Star Wars movie. Like, how do you feel right now with the digital revolution for young filmmakers or kids? Or does it dismay you that anyone can pick up a camera?

00:34:04
Speaker 2: It's all tools. Adjust a tool. It depends on whether you have talent. And that's something you can't buy or learn. You have it or you don't. It's like an actor. You can train to be an actor. But believe me, those actors are unique human beings. And they are born with this. And they bring it. And it's really impossible to not talk about how talented they are.

00:34:46
Speaker 1: You're also notable for kind of bringing to light a lot of the actors that are the standard now. Like what was it about, uh, Kurt Russell or Jamie Lee or any of the actors that you've worked with that weren't household names then in terms of you choosing them?

00:35:04
Speaker 2: Kurt and I did a TV movie called Elvis and he played Elvis.

00:35:10
Speaker 1: When was this done?

00:35:11
Speaker 2: 78. Okay. He was brilliant in it. And I thought, my God, I want to work with this guy. He knows how to act in another key, in another gear. And Jamie Lee was just absolutely perfect for the role and exuberant and wonderful. And then we cast her.

00:35:31
Speaker 1: Was her lineage as far as horror film?

00:35:34
Speaker 3: Of course.

00:35:35
Speaker 2: You know, psycho? Yes, sir. Absolutely.

00:35:38
Speaker 1: So you had that in mind with Halloween?

00:35:39
Speaker 2: Didn't have it in mind, really, but I thought, oh, it's not going to hurt us.

00:35:43
Speaker 1: Got you. Are there any guerrilla tactics that you've done that I'm not aware of in terms of, like, shooting? When you're doing independent, especially guerrilla In the early days, like, did you have to follow the rules as far as?

00:35:57
Speaker 2: Well, we can shoot without permits, and that's about as guerrilla as you can get.

00:36:02
Speaker 1: But would people come up and actually verify, like, can you shoot here? They would just assume that.

00:36:06
Speaker 2: Yes, hell yes. Police will come and shut you down. It depends on how big a deal you make of it, you know. Okay.

00:36:14
Speaker 1: Would you have to figure out ways to talk them out of it?

00:36:17
Speaker 2: You know it, dude. You know it.

00:36:19
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

00:36:21
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you, no. I'm not going to.

00:36:24
Speaker 1: Even in retrospect?

00:36:25
Speaker 2: I cannot share some of these things. Okay. But, yes, I have been in a situation where I had to talk myself out of it. But you need the shot. We need to get this shot here in traffic. I'm sorry. We have to shut down Wilshire Boulevard. Ready? Uh-oh, here come the police. What are you guys doing? You know, that kind of thing. I love this idea of four parter.

00:36:52
Speaker 1: Yes.

00:36:52
Speaker 2: Footage exist or do you go out and make it?

00:36:55
Speaker 1: Uh, I'll say that 70% of my footage is already existing.

00:37:00
Speaker 2: So you can do connecting material.

00:37:03
Speaker 1: Uh, it's connecting material. However, you know, as I said, I use what my subject is to attract people, but my, my sub story will be the real kind of what I feel the real story is. And in this particular. case, you know, for music, at least for contemporary music, I felt like 1997 was really kind of the first year of a very, very slow and you blink and you might miss it decline.

00:37:33
Speaker 2: Decline of what?

00:37:35
Speaker 1: I hear myself saying this and I don't want to sound elitist while saying it because all this is subjective.

00:37:40
Speaker 2: Decline of what?

00:37:42
Speaker 1: Well, I, I'm the, I'm the person that still believes that art and music in particular is a cathartic tool for emotions. Of course it is.

00:37:56
Speaker 2: Dude, you're right.

00:37:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, but trying to convince people. But starting in 97 is what's led us to kind of where we are now.

00:38:07
Speaker 2: I don't know where we are now.

00:38:08
Speaker 1: Well, that's the point. It became a cash grab. And here's the thing.

00:38:12
Speaker 2: Cash grab.

00:38:14
Speaker 1: I'm just as guilty. I mean, I'm just as guilty of the crimes that I'm pointing out. and other people. So I'm trying to make a study of how music was once used as a tool for joy and expression, again, of a cathartic level. And now we've kind of lost that.

00:38:37
Speaker 2: You know, let me give you an example of Johann Sebastian Bach, one of the most famous composers. Yes. What he did was he would travel around Europe and play in various churches and cathedrals, play the organs. And he would write a piece for that organ. That's where his music comes from. It comes from a duty. It doesn't come from an inspiration from God. It comes because the church said, we want you to do this. So great art can come from anything. It does not have to be an inspiration from above. It can be anything. It can be a movie that you're assigned to. It can be a music that you're assigned to. It doesn't matter. It does not matter. He wrote some of the greatest pieces of music to test out organs. Come on now. Come on now.

00:39:39
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Where does the source come from?

00:39:41
Speaker 2: Inside of him. His talent.

00:39:44
Speaker 1: That's the point. When I talk about metaphysics and that, I'm talking about in terms of what's inside of you.

00:39:49
Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying.

00:39:50
Speaker 3: Sure.

00:39:50
Speaker 1: Right. But I still feel that that's an energy source.

00:39:53
Speaker 2: But now what you said, it's all sellout now. Is that what you're suggesting, kind of? Say it. Just say it. Be bold.

00:40:02
Speaker 1: No, I'm not. No, I don't believe it's sellout. However, I do believe that we are in creative diminished returns.

00:40:11
Speaker 2: Ooh.

00:40:12
Speaker 3: Why?

00:40:12
Speaker 2: Why? What do you think happened?

00:40:14
Speaker 1: Either that or I've absolutely exhausted entertainment in terms of a soothing mechanism. I mean, okay, are you just as on fire about film or music as you were when you were seven or eight years old in the movie theater?

00:40:34
Speaker 2: No, no, because I know the plumbing. See, that's the problem. And I didn't know the plumbing and I was on fire. Wow, look at this. Listen to this.

00:40:44
Speaker 1: So should we discourage people from wanting to look inside the hood?

00:40:48
Speaker 2: No, no, no. But sometimes a movie will come along and I'll forget it, the plumbing. It will captivate me so much. I'll watch something and it becomes greatness. Now, that's what you're looking for, something that goes beyond the knowledge that you have. Now, you know, I'm 78. I'm an old dude here. So I've been down the road. Yes, I am. You're the child here, pal. Let me just tell you that. But something that gets through that, gets through my knowledge and touches me. Ah, that's great. Don't ask me what I've seen recently.

00:41:30
Speaker 1: Dude, look, when I do interviews, I hate when people are like, so who do you like now? Or what have you seen now? However, I will ask you, in the last 20 years, have you been touched?

00:41:42
Speaker 2: Sure, many times.

00:41:43
Speaker 1: In terms of inspired.

00:41:45
Speaker 2: Many times. In odd movies. The last Mad Max movie was fantastic.

00:41:51
Speaker 1: Of course, yes.

00:41:52
Speaker 2: Unbelievable. And what an adventure. And the characters are sensational. You know, I'm telling you, I can watch that movie over and over again and learn things about it.

00:42:06
Speaker 1: This is what I always wanted to know. Do you call your own films the horror genre or– I always feel like whenever something gets a tag, like the music I'm known for, someone tagged it Neo Soul, which I kind of, well, I'd say I received it with an eye roll, but no one likes the genre that they're tagged with. Do you call the genre that you're known for horror?

00:42:29
Speaker 2: Yes, it's horror movies. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I love horror movies.

00:42:33
Speaker 1: So in the age of it all, or just in the, especially during that time period, Were there any other franchises or any other films that came out during that time period that.

00:42:46
Speaker 2: Which time period, down the last.

00:42:47
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I feel, at least of my era, between 78 and 88, between... Wow. Somewhere between Halloween and maybe Nightmare on Elm Street and all the stops in between.

00:42:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

00:43:00
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, did you... feel a certain way about the Friday the 13th franchise, basically.

00:43:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was pissed off. Sorry to use that word. Yeah, don't steal from me.

00:43:10
Speaker 1: I would have been too.

00:43:11
Speaker 2: Don't steal from me.

00:43:12
Speaker 3: Right.

00:43:13
Speaker 2: But, you know, it's about money.

00:43:16
Speaker 1: Have they ever, has the franchise ever come to you to say, hey, why don't you?

00:43:19
Speaker 2: Hell no. No more than Dr. Dre came to me about Halloween, stealing from.

00:43:24
Speaker 1: We don't know that anyway.

00:43:26
Speaker 2: I don't know that.

00:43:26
Speaker 1: I do know he stole.

00:43:28
Speaker 2: He's a thief.

00:43:29
Speaker 1: Thief. What is the magic of the horror film? What is your goal? When I complete a record, I'm imagining someone receiving it. I have these visions in my head. For you, though, is the idea of a child running to his parents' bedroom to get under the cover, maybe I'm self-admitting too much, running for cover, is that the vision in your head that you want?

00:43:53
Speaker 2: We're all scared when we're little. We're born scared. We come out and somebody whacks our butt We start crying, and sometimes we go through bumpy rides to be alive. So it can be a terrifying world to a child. It's a big old dangerous world, and I want to recreate that for everybody and scare the poop out of you. That's what my job is.

00:44:21
Speaker 1: In your mind, what do you consider successes?

00:44:25
Speaker 2: Well, the scariest movie of all time is The Exorcist. Oh, my God. What happened to that little girl? Come on now. You didn't want to walk down that hallway and open that door to see what was going on in that room. Scary stuff. Let's get back to you. I don't want to talk about me anymore.

00:44:46
Speaker 1: You're too legendary. At least answer my question.

00:44:49
Speaker 2: Which question?

00:44:49
Speaker 1: What does success mean to you?

00:44:52
Speaker 2: Money in the bank, basketball on television, but success is the Warriors win one more championship, I hope, but they're not going to.

00:45:03
Speaker 1: How many more do you need them to win?

00:45:07
Speaker 2: As many as they can.

00:45:09
Speaker 1: Got you.

00:45:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. Success to me is having a fun life. I want to have a happy life now. I've worked really hard in the past. I got where I wanted to be. I lived my dream of being a movie director. You know, I want to have a good time.

00:45:24
Speaker 1: So if feedback from Cathedral is satisfactory, will you continue the line?

00:45:28
Speaker 2: Sure, I'll continue the line even if it isn't. I mean, I'll keep making music. I'll keep doing stuff. I can't stop creating. My dad turned to me once and said, create. Doesn't matter what. Write, direct, make music, whatever it is, create something. That was starting me on my little journey.

00:45:48
Speaker 1: That's what I definitely want to know. What do you do in the first, like, Half hour of your day. When does your creative process start?

00:45:55
Speaker 2: The first part of my day is playing a video game and just kind of getting my brain going.

00:46:02
Speaker 1: So you use video games as a way to exercise your brain?

00:46:04
Speaker 2: And remember things.

00:46:06
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:46:06
Speaker 2: Because one's memory begins to play tricks on you when you get old. You'll find out one day.

00:46:12
Speaker 1: Well, I'm in my New York Times crossword phase now.

00:46:15
Speaker 2: Are you really? Oh, wow.

00:46:16
Speaker 1: I'm a word old.

00:46:18
Speaker 2: Oh, that's really cool.

00:46:19
Speaker 1: That's hard.

00:46:20
Speaker 2: That's hard. Oh, hell no. Oh, no, it's too hard for me.

00:46:23
Speaker 1: Nah, you can do it.

00:46:25
Speaker 2: I could, huh?

00:46:25
Speaker 1: You could.

00:46:26
Speaker 3: Well.

00:46:27
Speaker 1: And you're a writer.

00:46:28
Speaker 2: Uh-huh.

00:46:29
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I highly recommend it.

00:46:32
Speaker 2: All right.

00:46:32
Speaker 1: So do you start your process in the morning as far as like.

00:46:36
Speaker 2: Coffee, man. Come on, slow. Let's get up and see what the day is like.

00:46:41
Speaker 1: So when do you let work seep in?

00:46:43
Speaker 2: Well, it depends on if I have a job, something to do. If I don't, hopefully I don't. I can. Just put my feedback. That's what I want to do. All right.

00:46:52
Speaker 1: So my final question to you.

00:46:54
Speaker 2: Yes.

00:46:54
Speaker 1: What do you, well, it's actually two. Number one, what are your.

00:46:59
Speaker 2: Wait a minute. You just shoved another question in there?

00:47:01
Speaker 1: I just figured.

00:47:02
Speaker 2: You said it was the last question.

00:47:05
Speaker 1: I changed my mind. I got two.

00:47:07
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:47:08
Speaker 1: Of your canon, what are your three favorite films of your canon? What three films mean the most to you?

00:47:13
Speaker 2: Following the Thing and They Live. Okay. Okay. I just made that up today. I don't know. You know, it'll change.

00:47:20
Speaker 1: All right. So each of your films is your favorite kid.

00:47:23
Speaker 2: It's all good.

00:47:24
Speaker 1: Okay. What do you consider your greatest achievement? Making hit movies or the people that you helped start?

00:47:32
Speaker 2: That has nothing to do with it. I mean, I don't.

00:47:34
Speaker 1: You're not taking credit for starting these careers? No.

00:47:37
Speaker 2: Hell no. They would have done it anyway.

00:47:39
Speaker 1: So you don't believe in the idea of self-congratulatory flowers?

00:47:44
Speaker 3: No.

00:47:44
Speaker 2: Hell no. My biggest deal is my son. I created a great kid there. He's talented, smart.

00:47:52
Speaker 1: I'll take that.

00:47:52
Speaker 2: You'll take it. You'll take it, I say. Thank you.

00:47:55
Speaker 1: That's a beautiful answer.

00:47:56
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to ask me before I wrap up? Yes, a bunch of things, but you won't answer me. You won't tell me what your project is. You won't tell me.

00:48:06
Speaker 1: I cannot name it. If I want to do this project, I still can't do it.

00:48:09
Speaker 2: Right, right, right.

00:48:10
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you want to know?

00:48:11
Speaker 2: Not a thing. Well.

00:48:13
Speaker 1: Thank you, John Carpenter. You got it, man. I appreciate it. Thank you.

00:48:16
Speaker 2: Fun deal.

00:48:21
Speaker 1: The Questlove Show is hosted by me, Amir Questlove-Thompson. The executive producers are Sean G.

00:48:27
Speaker 3: Brian Calhoun, and me. Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Payne. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown. Edited by Alex Connelly. iHeart video support.

00:48:42
Speaker 1: By Mark G. Canton logos, graphics, and animation by Nick. Additional support by Lance Coleman. Special thanks to Kathy. Special thanks to sugar. Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, rate, review, and share the quest love show. Wherever you stream your podcast, make sure you follow us on socials. That's at Q L S L. Check out hundreds and hundreds of QLS episodes, including the Questlove Supreme shows in our podcast archives.

00:49:19
Speaker 3: Questlove Supreme.

00:49:20
Speaker 1: Shows a production of iHeartRadio.