Wallo267 Part 1

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Questlove Show is a production of iHeartRadio. All right. Not for nothing, but our guest today is one of the most thoroughest young fools in the game. All right, I'm sorry. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. You see what happens when I show enthusiasm. Now, welcome to the Questlove Show. Longtime devotees of the show know that normally I've reserved, you know, this platform, this space for musicians, actors, whatnot. Of course, you know, our guest today is just a leading voice in the podcast and influence space. He walks it like he talks it. He's really about the action in terms of reform and rewiring our brains and just the seed planting for those that think. I mean, that's the commonality in all of us. Do we ever think that we're deserving of that light and that chance? And that's a commonality that even though it might seem like we come from two different backgrounds, like having read your books, it's literally the same path. It's just small choices.

00:01:28
Speaker 2: Yep.

00:01:29
Speaker 1: Led us to a place where, you know, both of us have this rebirth. But of course, you know him as co-host of one of the craziest podcasts ever, A Million Dollars Worth of Game, that he hosts with his cousin, Gilly the Kid. But you also know him for his, like, impactful videos. Does everyone always introduce you in some sort of Hall of Fame level?

00:01:51
Speaker 2: No, not really. I don't think it'd be this hype. You know, anything would be hype.

00:01:55
Speaker 1: I mean, no, I just... I think, especially with men, like I'm a guy that this podcast knows my relationship with compliments. Like I will start ducking and dodging.

00:02:07
Speaker 2: I think anybody can do that.

00:02:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. So just allowing myself to either feel it or speak it is sometimes hard to do because I'm trying to reprogram myself and better myself in my journey. But the title of your latest book, which is Yes to You and No to Them. Yeah. literally could not come at a more timely period in my life. Cause I'm literally, I mean, it's one thing to acclimate yourself with the word no, but it's a lot to stand on business about it. And I'm one of those people that want to be like super likable. I don't want to shine my light and, you know, often find myself like dimming myself just so I can fit in. So I'm not too much of a threat. And a big part of that, is learn to advocate for yourself and say no. And I'd rather be self-sacrificing. So this book came at, I was like, damn, I actually need this now. Having read your books and followed your podcast, my first question is, okay, only you truly know, and I think you might know the answer, you know the genesis of your rebirth.

00:03:21
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

00:03:22
Speaker 1: Like I think everyone comes to a point in their life where unfortunately for some people, they have to hit like real rock bottom. Even the way that you put it, the universe still show mercy on you because he could have really showed you some real never coming back rock bottom. And you got like, that's how I look at the pandemic. Yeah. Like it's not normal to live through a plague that, We lived in a time when 1.7 million people died. But somehow, like for me, that period was my period of waking up and realizing I had a mission. But do you specifically have a date in which you knew you had a calling, a real calling?

00:04:06
Speaker 2: I don't really know the date. I was in a cell. I was in prison.

00:04:09
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

00:04:10
Speaker 2: It was hot as shit that day. And the walls were sweating. And I ain't go to the yard. And I'm just laying on the top bunk and I'm looking at the ceiling. I'm hot as shit. The only reason I was laying there because I would take, go back and forth for the same cold water and get late. And I had this towel that I would lay on my chest. It was hot as shit in there. Like it wasn't, you know, and I was outside.

00:04:31
Speaker 1: There's no air conditioning, no. No, no, no. I'm just kidding. All right, I'm going to tell you something.

00:04:36
Speaker 2: That'd be crazy. They ain't got no AC. Some prisons they do. Let me say, a lot of the prisons they do got central air.

00:04:43
Speaker 1: Thank you.

00:04:43
Speaker 2: A lot of them they do, but I was in the old one before central air.

00:04:46
Speaker 1: I'm just going to say it right now. This can also be a teaching moment. You know, I had a fear of having this conversation because I was afraid I was going to ask you a question.

00:04:59
Speaker 2: You're never going to ask the wrong question.

00:05:01
Speaker 1: That I should have known. And I have a lot of questions.

00:05:05
Speaker 2: No, ask all. Listen, it's not your job to know about San Francisco if you never lived here.

00:05:11
Speaker 1: Simple.

00:05:12
Speaker 2: It's simple. You're not going to know, Dan, where's the coffee? Where's this at? You're just not going to know. So it's cool.

00:05:18
Speaker 1: See, now you know how much needed this book was. And my whole thing was like, oh, man, I'm going to ask the wrong shit.

00:05:26
Speaker 2: No, you're never going to ask the wrong shit. It's going to be viral. No, no, fuck all that. I'm going to tell you like this. I'm sitting in a cell, coming from where I come from. You know Philly.

00:05:37
Speaker 1: You know me.

00:05:37
Speaker 2: The only thing that's different between me and you, like you said, small decisions that we made, choices we made.

00:05:42
Speaker 1: Right.

00:05:43
Speaker 2: It might be that day that you decided to go to school and I didn't. It might be that day that you decided to stay out when you were supposed to go home.

00:05:50
Speaker 1: I never questioned even when people were on my way. And there's like 12 seconds of like, oh, excuse me.

00:05:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

00:05:54
Speaker 1: That 12 seconds just saved my life.

00:05:56
Speaker 2: It can change your life.

00:05:57
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:05:57
Speaker 2: So you know. And if it goes back to breaking down the understanding of why I did some of the things that I did in order to get to prison, young, growing up, Philadelphia, wanting to be down, first got locked up at 11, June 30th, 1990 for robbery. You know what I mean? I got locked up again. June 3rd of 1990? June 30th of 1990, the first time I got arrested. 11 years old for a couple days. Okay. Birthday, June 21st. So wound up getting arrested before, but before even there, establishing my outlook. I was establishing my outlook based off of me sitting on the steps, 13th and Allegheny around there, seeing the drug dealer come pull up, nice car, Mercedes Benz, gold rims, coming to get the most beautiful girl in the neighborhood. At that moment, I was educated that America respects successful criminals, so I needed to be one. Reverence Godfather, Reverence Scarface, Reverence Sopranos. They get claps to get, you know, but even before that, understanding that when the guy come to pick up the most beautifulest girl in the neighborhood and he got the jury on, the older ladies on the steps, Ms.

00:07:07
Speaker 1: Brown, Ms. Jackson, Ms.

00:07:08
Speaker 2: Johnson, they say, hey, baby. They spoke to him, but they never spoke to the janitor coming home from work.

00:07:13
Speaker 1: How are they at work?

00:07:14
Speaker 2: So I said, damn, he the only person that get respect. So I needed to try to be that. So that's when the criminal element took place. And I said, I had to be a successful criminal in America.

00:07:23
Speaker 1: So that was your come to Jesus moment. Like this is an obtainable goal.

00:07:28
Speaker 2: Like this is what I got to be that because it's like they don't need people that get respected. And then when you go in the house, the only movies is getting watched. The Godfather is a historical movie. If you go to a federal prosecutor or if you go to a federal judge, you go to a lawmaker asking which his favorite movie is. Crime is a real important business in America. You know what I'm saying? But it's oxymoronic how tough on crime, but at the same time, we idolize the people that never get arrested or the ideas of them through movies.

00:07:59
Speaker 1: So it's like, whoa, I got to be that.

00:08:00
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's, that's the, I got to be, you know what I mean? So you think it. So I get into crime and I started believing that this is okay based off of what I'm seeing in the society, what I'm seeing in the community and who get respected and who don't. So it's a deeper thing. to be able for me to establish the mindset that I got to try to steal the American dream. Why would I work for it? They don't respect the workers.

00:08:22
Speaker 1: And that came into your mind at 11?

00:08:24
Speaker 2: No, it didn't come into my mind. I didn't understand that that's what I was seeing. And so subconsciously you just- And so I'm sitting in prison because I got to think back like, yo, when was I? Then I start to be like, oh, damn, that's cool. Because them, the dudes, that was a superhero. The drug dealer or the criminal that was making money that came around. How you got a pocket full of money and a dude that work, hey, they don't. He's standing on the corner. He get to do what he want. He don't have to work. So you think about the later on, like, damn, that's what I was seeing. I didn't understand that then.

00:08:47
Speaker 1: All right. You just said something that's now full circle with me. At the very top, you said it could have been a time period in which, like, you were out and I was in or a time when I was out and you were in. And I'm realizing that, like, oh, okay, the commonality there is that Now I know that as young people, we come chipped and equipped with an impressionable gene. You know, we might get 10 of them as a kid and at least four of them are squandered on like watching Super Friends or like, you know, who you want to be. And when you said that, so my version of that story was I was five years old watching Stephen Ferone, a British drummer from Brighton, England, Ironically in the, the lone black guy in a band called the average white band and the novelty of funky white boys playing on soul train live was like a big deal in my house. So already the average white man is coming on soul train. And, all of them are like watching like to see if it's true that like white boys do have rhythm. So I remember the moment I'm four and I was just transfixed on the drummer and then that was my moment of like, yeah, that's what I want to do with my life. But I also acknowledge that that was a sick day. I was sick and in bed I could have been with any of my cousins or my next door neighbors, or it's just time and circumstance of that. So you're saying you're laying in your cell and you're reflecting on when's the first moment that you had.

00:10:35
Speaker 2: No, I wasn't really reflecting on the first moment. I was reflecting on this shit is old. Cause I spent, you gotta stand. I spent majority of my time on this planet inside of a cell. Majority of my time. I did five years in the juvenile system and I wound up doing 20 years in certified as adult in prison. That's 25 and 47. So I'm just so used to being incarcerated to the point to where it's like, it's normalized. Like I'm not, I'm tired with the fact of that. I normalize it so much that I don't even feel incarceration.

00:11:07
Speaker 1: It's just normal. Right.

00:11:10
Speaker 2: So, because early in my prison bit, I seen some things, I seen some dude get stabbed in the yard and I never forget that when I came in, I was shaking. And my cellmate at the time, brother Umar, he was an older dude doing life. He was like, and it was so annoying. He sat on the bed. He was like, I heard what happened in the yard. I'm like, I'm just sitting here. Like, cause usually you come in the cell and you sit on the toilet. When I see it, like be a cardboard, you put a cardboard, that's like a chair.

00:11:35
Speaker 1: So you sitting.

00:11:36
Speaker 2: There and I'm just like, damn, I'm like, wow. Cause I hit the penitentiary. When I hit the penitentiary, this.

00:11:41
Speaker 1: Was like 90.

00:11:41
Speaker 2: What was this? I was, I just turned 18 and they put me on population. So probably 97, 98, something like that. You got prison and you got penitentiary. Penitentiary usually, when they talking about that, they're talking about an old facility that been there for a long time, old building, old structure, wall, gate.

00:12:04
Speaker 1: It's just old.

00:12:05
Speaker 2: It's not new. And then a state correctional institution, that's like the new jails with the AC and all that. So I'm in the penitentiary, which is the old jail. So I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm just like, I can't believe this dude was stabbing me until his arm got tired and his blood was jumping everywhere. So I was like, I'll never forget. I stood near the gate waiting for the yard to be over because I'm like, I'm trying to run in. I'm trying to get up in here.

00:12:27
Speaker 1: I got it.

00:12:27
Speaker 2: You know, because you realize I'm like, damn. You're trying to get in the yard? No, I'm trying to get in. I'm trying to go back to.

00:12:32
Speaker 1: The cell block. Okay, okay.

00:12:34
Speaker 2: No, I'm just standing there. I'm standing there like, yo, I can't wait.

00:12:36
Speaker 1: Until this yard is over.

00:12:37
Speaker 2: No, I'm with you.

00:12:38
Speaker 1: But then when you said that, I was like, wait a minute. I would be running to my cell. Okay, I get it. We're still on the same level. Sorry about that.

00:12:43
Speaker 2: I can't go there because the gate closed. You got to wait. So I'm sitting there and as I'm looking at it, watching, I'm like, whoa, I'm just like, damn. And the guards is taking their time because they don't want to get close up on the dude. So they like, stop. They just tell him, try and tell him to stop. But he like, get out of here. And once they finally walk up, once he stopped, he just basically got tired. They said, back up. They kicked the knife, shank, and then, you know, cuffed him. And then as they cuffed him, I'll never forget. So I'm learning stuff. It was some of his homies over there like, you ain't supposed to cuff him in the yard. I seen them hollering at the guards. Some dude, homeboy, them stabbed. Because they not supposed to cuff you walking in the yard because somebody can attack you when they got you cuffed.

00:13:20
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:13:20
Speaker 2: So they really supposed to walk you out. So just in case something happened, you could just like hold your arms or something, whatever. So I don't know why he's saying. I'm just like, because this is like my first week in the penitentiary.

00:13:29
Speaker 1: I'm like. Wait, this is your first week?

00:13:31
Speaker 2: This is my first week in that prison.

00:13:33
Speaker 1: Shit, goddamn.

00:13:33
Speaker 2: I got transferred. So I'm like, shit, right? So I'm like, and this is even before I seen some of my homeboys there. So I'm just like, damn, this shit real.

00:13:41
Speaker 1: Right?

00:13:41
Speaker 2: Because I'm like this. me going to prison, I never was the one that took on the tough guy mentality and to try to deny my feelings or fight my feelings or my emotions that I'm a human and this shit is scary. I never was a dude to come out of prison and say that. Like, oh, I wasn't scared. No, that's bullshit. So when I go back to the cell and I'm sitting there on the toilet, Umar looking at me, he like, I never forget, he was like eating an orange pill and he was like, he was like, yeah, you're looking at it wrong. I'm just like, I'm like, what the fuck? I just seen somebody get stabbed. I'm not looking at nothing wrong, right? So he tell me, You can't be looking at it with your regular mind. This is a journey you're already going. You got to go insane in order to stay sane. So you got to look at this with an insane mind. So I'm like, I'm just listening to him. He just talking to me basically like, you got to normalize the things you're going to see in here. And as he breaking it down to me, he said, he said, when I see somebody get stabbed, I'm not looking at somebody stabbing somebody. I'm saying to myself, what did he do to that guy to make him do that? So I'm like, damn. You really got to remove yourself from the human instinct of feeling for somebody or being emotional about anything that you're going to see. Or if you're looking at it from a regular layman person mindset, you're going to go the fuck crazy. So you got to fortify your mind. So he telling me this shit. I'm sitting there like, I'm listening. And that whole night he was just, Dave was talking to me about it. And I was like, he was like, yeah, you know, nothing don't happen for no reason. This, that, and the third.

00:15:05
Speaker 1: Boom, boom, boom.

00:15:06
Speaker 2: So now he put my mind in that format of seeing what I'm seeing. but seeing it in a different way through this journey, because if I don't, I'm going to go crazy. And you know what I mean? So that right there, it helped me normalize prison more. And it helped me didn't feel it as much as the average person would feel it during the journey. Because one thing that I knew, Quest, was that I knew that every time I was in jail was because of me. It wasn't because of the white man. It wasn't because of the system. It was because I decided to commit crime when I could have done anything else. So I'm already taking accountability of that aspect. So now I'm just taking accountability like, oh, this is normal. Getting up every day, making my bed, sleeping on the plastic of the bed, wiping it down, wiping my floor down, you know, using the toilet as a refrigerator, all that type. So it's just, it's a lot that I had to process. So by the time I hit there, when I'm looking that day, I'm telling you about that hot day, I'm just like, I'm tired of this shit.

00:16:15
Speaker 1: All right, the second fear of having your own platform is my knowing and being hyper aware of not to make my guests about me when they share like vulnerable shit.

00:16:31
Speaker 2: That's okay.

00:16:33
Speaker 1: But there's a selfish reason I wanted you on this podcast because intrinsically I feel All right, so I know for my life, the payoff is, yo, y'all killed that Jay-Z show. Yo, this album changed my life. Yo, oh God, that movie you did and da-da-da-da-da, all this creativity. Like, yeah, there's a part of me that is that person who is the brand I sell of like, hey, I'm curious about knowledge and all these things and learning education, music education. You know, but like, dog. You know, it's literally impossible for the generational epigenetical pain from slave master to the first generation of slaves to whoever survived that, to whoever survived that, to our great, great, great, great, great, great, great father, us, on and on. Like, so you're also inheriting like their burden and their pain and shit. You know, I think what I managed to do with this career is I managed to make the painful part look sexy, which is like, people are like, yo, how do you manage to do everything? I got the Tonight Show, The Roots, DJ gigs, you write books. Because I was raised by one of those James Brown, like, hard work, respectability politics that caused me to pull your pants up, shit. You know, but it was a traumatic road to get there. Because the nicest way that I could put this with the most giantest wink without being like totally vulnerable about it is like you know my dad was a drill sergeant when i say he was a joe jackson like dad okay like joe jackson is not alone in this somehow the anger and that shit and the trauma of it was the benefit for all of us to spectate because you know it's like okay these nine kids are going to bring joy to the world and all that stuff and give us something to look forward to but That's a lot to take in. And that's the commonality I have. You know, the trauma of rushing home from school to beat the Oprah theme so I don't get on punishment. And I'm being very kind when I say that word. But, you know, the hell I had to catch to become this savant of music. It was always justified in my mind because the fear that was put in me was that I'm saving you from what's out there so yes I made it to safety but there's such a trauma burden that one has to endure that we you know we both came to this redemption place where we now I think are common in our beliefs of like we have to put out good in the world and all that stuff the lesson that I never learned is the grass is always green on the other side right now you specifically named you know, two very distinctive years of this part of your life. And to show you how small I feel, like, you know, I thought the summer of 1990 was hell because I wasn't impressed with Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet. Like, the reason why I had to ask you almost twice, like, wait, June of 1990, oh, man, I remember, like, Being depressed because four songs on Fear of a Black Light, I viewed that as like depression. And your version of that day is something different. And we still came to this place, but I always wanted to know, you know, because I do know people that have not survived this journey. Most have given up. I have cousins. I have schoolmates. I've had band members that just gave up. And, you know, the whole time I'm like studying you from afar, I'm just like, what was the moment that woke him up? Because even my privilege side of thing, like I ignore that call daily. And I feel guilty about it because it's being handed to me in such an easy way. And it's, but it's, it's also the same, like paralyzing thing that I think that has also hampered a lot of my constituents, you know, other fellow artists that seem stuck in a loop and can't get themselves out of them. And there's an RIP post on, you know what I mean? Cause we can't get over the hump of the calling part. And so, you know, I had a whole bunch of other questions to ask, but it's, you know, But what made you want to stick with it? Like once you had that calling, what made you want to execute it? Because we will all say, okay, I'm here for the leadership. But, you know, I hate leadership. What makes you want to show up?

00:21:55
Speaker 2: Because, like, first of all, I always think of it like this. I look at it like this. There was two things I used to do in prison religiously. Another thing I just want to let you know because you don't know. you could buy a TV off of Commerce Station. You got a TV in your cell with cable.

00:22:10
Speaker 1: I wanted to know how you got music in.

00:22:12
Speaker 2: I'm telling you.

00:22:13
Speaker 4: I got to break this down too, so I'm telling you, right? I just wanted to thank you for answering that. You get a TV off Commerce Station. We got a TV, little 19 inches. Before it was 19, like 14 inches, whatever. So we got a TV in our cell. What makes me keep going is realizing I grew up and I lacked exposure. A lot of time in the hood, we lack exposure to different things. So as I'm in the cell watching TV... I became addicted to commercials to my cellmates. Like, yo man, why are you always watching commercials, right? I'm like, yo man, I just, I don't know.

00:22:43
Speaker 2: So I keep changing the channel. Anytime a show rate come on, I just watch commercials, religiously, right? Cause I'm trying to figure out, yo, that, that, that Big Mac never looked like that when I was on the streets, man. Did you ever have one like that, man? He like, you see how it's nice? Like it always be sloppy. It just don't never, he like, yo man, No. He'd be like, yo, you always ask me shit that don't matter. He'd be like, come on, man. That shit don't matter. I'm watching this show.

00:23:05
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right.

00:23:07
Speaker 2: So then I started learning because there's two things I'm watching. I'm studying these commercials. And then once I realized that all these commercials is done by an advertising agency, I started deep diving into marketing, advertising agency. I'm reading George Lois, damn good advice, top marketing man in the world. So I'm just thinking about all this type of stuff. I'm reading this stuff. And then on the other side, I become obsessed with Anthony Bourdain. Cause I'm like, yo, this dude was in, he was, he was on drugs before he got his life together.

00:23:35
Speaker 1: He's chef. He did.

00:23:36
Speaker 2: And he's introduced me to the, like Anthony Bourdain was like my, uh, my travel agent. He was taking me everywhere. He was like, this was the greatest motherfucker on earth to me.

00:23:46
Speaker 1: Right.

00:23:46
Speaker 2: Cause I'm sitting in the cell and I'm like, I'm watching every show parts. I know no reservation to lay over. And I'm talking about, I know every show. So I'm just like, damn, I want to eat that. But what I, I got to if I'm with him. Because I'm putting myself like, I know Ant. I'm talking to Ant like this is my uncle, my cousin. I'm like, I call him Ant. So I'm like, damn, this boy Ant's just. And my son's like, this is all you watch. Because, you know, and what I liked about it on the media aspect as I built my company, and I'm just looking at, he was on multiple channels, CNN, parts. I know he was on multiple. His travel channel, I'm just looking at. But he never, it was never enough shows. So I'm just watching him. I'm just like, this is what life is about.

00:24:23
Speaker 1: Living.

00:24:23
Speaker 2: You got to explore.

00:24:24
Speaker 1: You got to meet new people.

00:24:25
Speaker 2: You got to talk to everybody. Just he, Anthony Bourdain talked to everybody, same energy. He was a great listener. And I was like, yo, that's life, right? So as I'm studying this, I'm studying marketing. And I'm just like, at the same time, I'm comfortable in prison. And I'm going to tell you why. Somebody asked me one time, damn, but Joe, I said, and it was strange. And they asked me about prison. And they said, if you had to describe prison, how would you describe it? I said, the most peaceful place on earth.

00:24:57
Speaker 1: Right?

00:24:58
Speaker 2: And they said, why, Wallo? I said, relaxing too. And he said, why? I said, let me break it down.

00:25:04
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:25:05
Speaker 2: When you're in prison, if you're tired, you can go to sleep. You don't have to work in prison. Listen, you ever notice how when somebody come from prison, they be still looking younger? Yes. The stress of life is not there. When I go to prison at 17 and come out 37, people are like, Wallo, you got so much energy. Why you do this at 30? What prison did for me from 17 to 37, instead of dealing with heartbreak, loss of job, credit debt, college, all this type of stuff. What I was able to do from 17 to 37 was fortify my imagination. So when I come out of 37, I still think like I'm 17 on the aspect of what I can do and what I can't do. I don't have fears.

00:25:44
Speaker 1: You came out 17.

00:25:44
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I came out 17. So when you see me, you're like, damn, what will I be doing? He be everywhere. He doing all this stuff. Because first of all, I got more rest than most people on the planet. I had less stress than most people on the planet. And let me play something to you. Prison might be the most peaceful place in the world, the most respectful place in the world. People say, why, Wallo? Because the consequences of disrespect is at its highest level on this earth.

00:26:10
Speaker 1: You learned your lesson.

00:26:12
Speaker 2: So what it is, is respect, respect, respect. I didn't see murderers have apology fest. You know how they have festivals out here? They didn't have apology. I didn't see murderers bump each other like in a chow hunts. And they be just battling for, no, I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry, brother. No, I ain't mean to do that. And you be like, and then when I first witnessed that, I asked Omar one time, I said, why was they? He said, because if it's become a problem with them two dudes from two different sections, a war could start in here. And when a war starts, a lot of stuff could be lost. Privileges, lockdown. You know what I mean? Because a lot of these places, the prisoners run to jail, not the warden. So, So when I say respect is at its highest level, it's not social media. Social media, anybody get online and disrespect you, there's no consequences. So in there, the respect level is so peaceful, you'll go there, you're like, damn. The cell block smell, everything clean, it's peaceful. You hear Frankie Beverly and Maze coming out of one cell. Delphonic's coming out of another cell. Run DMC coming out of this cell. Tupac playing out of that cell. old heads walking down. You see an old head that been in jail for 37 years. He listened to Delphonics. You know what I mean? So the style is, so it's like, it's real because it's like the peacefulness is just different. Where out here, there's no consequences to disrespect. And I ain't saying nothing got to be physical or deadly, but it's like, it's so freely to disrespect people. Whereas though, you got people in there that still practicing stuff that you don't see no more on the planet.

00:27:48
Speaker 1: I have a question to ask you. Go ahead. Oh God. I, When you gave me permission that no questions done, I was like, I ain't falling for that shit.

00:27:56
Speaker 2: No, I'm being serious. Any question?

00:27:59
Speaker 1: Do you scoff or eye roll at the Hollywoodization of what they depict and subsequently show us what prison life is? Like, do you, are we all out here falling for like, The way that sometimes your pain can be fetishized in Hollywood in terms of what... Because that is a take on prison. I never... No.

00:28:32
Speaker 2: You know what it is? That's why I was so scared when I went to prison. I was scared to death.

00:28:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. Because... Of what was told to you?

00:28:40
Speaker 2: But what I always seen on there, the advertisement of prison through Hollywood was always.

00:28:47
Speaker 2: It was super crazy, right?

00:28:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:28:49
Speaker 2: So when I go there, I'm like, it will only be like two to three major incidents a year out of the 20 years that I spent in prison of like some real serious stuff.

00:28:59
Speaker 1: Catastrophic levels.

00:29:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, fighting is, that's regular stuff.

00:29:02
Speaker 1: Oz will have you thinking that shit happens every five minutes.

00:29:05
Speaker 2: Anabisi, that wasn't real. Anabisi would have got destroyed. Somebody would have destroyed him. Somebody would have destroyed him. Two, three dudes would have destroyed him. He would have got destroyed. Ain't nobody doing that. I was trying to explain to my interns. They're younger than me.

00:29:19
Speaker 1: They're in their early 30s, but they're addicted to Euphoria right now. Yeah. And his character is a main character on the last season of Euphoria. And I'm trying to explain to him.

00:29:29
Speaker 2: He was a monster on HBO.

00:29:31
Speaker 1: Right.

00:29:33
Speaker 2: Oz, he was a monster. He ran around. And they were just on this little pod. They would've destroyed him. He would've got shipped.

00:29:38
Speaker 1: Right, and I'm trying to explain to them, this villain is not.

00:29:42
Speaker 2: Nobody would've let him do that. So when you think about it, people be like... And the funny thing about it is, I was in Yale, not jail. I was in Princeton, not prison. I was in Penn State, not the state pen. The level of knowledge in there, the level of information... the level of literature, you got to think about it. A lot of the literature that you might hear, the classical books that people talk about, you might have been on point. Spook that sat by the door, Solidare Brothers, that came from the joint. It was brothers in the joint, but like you'll run into, oh, right here, give you a book. And you'd be like, it'd be taped. I'm talking about, it'd be yellow. You know, it'd be yellow. You'd be like, he'd be like, listen, Neff, gave my book back. I want my book back. You got two days to read this. So you would take it. You'd be like, It'd be like yellow because it's so old. They got the original copies of stuff like that in there. Like dudes got original copies of Soul of Death, but it was spooked to sit by the door when it first came out. So you got to think about it. The knowledge, the level of knowledge and teaching, that's why I say that people be like, damn, Wallo, how did you know so much coming out of prison?

00:30:45
Speaker 1: Read. Like read, read, read.

00:30:47
Speaker 2: Like dudes read. Like you just be shocked. The levels of professors that got in there that there's no, I'm talking about the conversations, the chess players, the jazz musicians, the artists, the paint, like on every level. You got some mean trumpet players in there, saxophone players in there, drummers in there. They got bands in jail. They got all like stuff that you don't understand, that'll never be as athletes, but it's just that they might can't never leave. You know what I mean? So it's like, at the end of the day, it's like the ideas that people have is amped up.

00:31:20
Speaker 1: Well, because- Is amped up. You know, part of the thing is that we're not supposed to humanize- Nothing. And I mean, the fact, I mean, now I'm sitting here kind of in shame because I'm so shocked that you're telling me that you can find humanity in prison. And I'm like, you know, look, God bless my dad, man. He got his wish. I made it safely. Yes, you did. But also, did I? Because, you know, it took 20 years to even let. that relationship trauma go before you passed away. But like, you know, this is just one of the moments where, where I realized like, damn, like I held on to like a Hollywood lie of like what I thought, which then thus gives you an excuse. That's the excuse that humans need to not see you through a scope of respect or that.

00:32:21
Speaker 2: Sort of thing. There's a marketing. See, I spoke about when I was on, Shannon Sharpe and I spoke about, I said, you got God, whatever God do anybody choose to believe in, that's their business. And then I said, as the God, you got marketing. Them the most two powerful things on this planet. The marketing, marketing is real powerful. And people be like, well, that's why when I leaned into it and understanding what marketing was and was studying in a prison, it was like, everything that you know, everything that you like was marketed to you. So why would I market that dudes is in prison?

00:32:54
Speaker 1: You got guns.

00:32:55
Speaker 2: Unbelievable gardeners in prison. You got yards in prison, but they got gardens and greenhouses around the country. You got like gardens and greenhouses where you got unbelievable. I can't market that to you. And yes, it's going to be fights. Yes, it's going to be disagreement. Yes, people will get stabbed. Yes, people will get hurt. People will get raped. I'm not saying it. The same thing that happened in society is going to happen there. The way they marketed it, it's like every day this is what's happening. The police is running down the hallways. The sirens going on. That's B.S., Why you think when you see a lot of COs, don't hurt me for the COs. A lot of COs just get fat after years because they be like this sitting down all day, eating jail food that inmates make, eating Chi-Chis. Why you think so many COs get... What they doing? Because if it was so dangerous, you'd be in shape to be on response. Majority of correctional officers in America is overweight. Pay attention to that. You got to be in shape. You see the cops in shape, don't you?

00:33:53
Speaker 1: They be on.

00:33:54
Speaker 2: And they be ready, task force and all that stuff. Like, think about it.

00:33:58
Speaker 1: I'm just being real. You're doing the Lord's work, man. I mean, it's like, that's, I'm genuinely elated. Like when I learned something that I never knew before. And once I can get over myself and get over like feeling stupid because I didn't know. And a lot of times I think like, that's the frustration. Like half of it is we tend to, try to penalize people we don't understand, which is kind of what's happening right now. And then the other half is sort of the fear of not being in on it or on the no, so you just never ask a question. And I was fine with never asking a question out of fear of being judged or ridiculed because I didn't know. But I've had many hard, an episode to... do on this platform man and this is one of the hardest ones because you know I feel like this is the closest that I could have a conversation with an alt universe version of another version of me like yes I believe in all that cosmic versions of of ourselves so thank you for sharing that you What is the first thing that you do in your day every morning? Do you have a morning routine?

00:35:28
Speaker 2: All right.

00:35:29
Speaker 1: Or are you happy to never, ever, ever, ever, ever again have a morning routine?

00:35:33
Speaker 2: No, I love getting up early.

00:35:35
Speaker 1: What time do you normally get up?

00:35:36
Speaker 2: It depends. Sometimes it's 4.30. Sometimes it's 5.30. Sometimes it's 6 o'clock.

00:35:42
Speaker 1: Right?

00:35:43
Speaker 2: That was my joint forever. But now, like this year, this is like the first time that I've really been like saying yes to me more. I get up and go back to sleep.

00:35:53
Speaker 1: Guilt-free? Guilt-free. Without feeling that you just let somebody down for sleeping?

00:35:57
Speaker 2: No, I'm going to break something down to you that I learned. I learned that the idea of this go hard, don't sleep, don't chill mentality, that's all marketing and some bullshit to keep us working. Think about this. Not even that, just the people that will tell you that on social media, and it's the idea of the power of marketing. I sit here and I say, damn, okay. When I think about everything that I do, I realized that I had a process of through the night. Because people be like, Wallo, I see you for years. People be like, Wallo, I see you on Instagram all the time. You on there every day, all the time. I'm like, no. And I say to myself, I used to always say to myself, you seen me on Instagram maybe three minutes a day. And they be like, oh, them three videos was only a minute a piece. I've been, I filmed them the day before or whenever I posted them, whatever. Like, Everybody don't understand that. A lot of stuff that you do is already organized way before. I believe in the three and a nine mentality. I believe in three and nine. This is why it's three and nine. Three months you work, nine months you chill. This is me. This is me. Break it down.

00:37:07
Speaker 1: Wait, what?

00:37:08
Speaker 2: Three months you work, nine months you chill in the process of it, right? Because, say for instance, you said something one time I was reading in a magazine when I was in prison. You was like, The album is just a flyer to tour. You said that years ago, like 2016.

00:37:22
Speaker 1: It is. 2026. I mean, 2016.

00:37:24
Speaker 2: Whatever. Because it's already done. But think about how that thing that y'all took however time to create. Everything is opened up for y'all. The work is already... That's the work.

00:37:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:37:38
Speaker 2: That is really the work. So say if you say, okay, let me sit here. January, February, and March. We're shooting 20 episodes a month. It's going to walk us through the whole year. Just saying. Y'all say that. I'm just saying. I'm not giving Jacob no ideas. I don't want to beat you up. Don't give me.

00:37:57
Speaker 1: Look, I'm going to tell you something. Great. You guys are watching me in real time. Like nine people in this room and however many hundred, whatever million, whatever the number is. You're watching me have a real life breakthrough. There's a particular artist, music artist, that made a decision. You know what? Same thing. I work my ass off. I'm going to see if I can get through 2026 the way I want to get through 2026. And this artist could easily just cashing it in, chasing it. And I get it. We've all been trained. I mean, hip hop in itself is hustle culture. And they tell me, you know what? I learned the power of no and scarcity marketing. And I decided, you know what? And my first question was, why would you even, at the rate where you, your market rate per show, like if I had a chance to at least gross like nine figures, two and a half hours every night singing songs I wrote, like I, because I've been trained to do that. Don't stop, go, get it. And they said- I want to prioritize my sanity and my happiness. And I looked at them like they were crazy. This was three days ago. Three days ago, after I'm trying to preach to the world about the power of metaphysics and all that stuff, and here's my Earth, Wind and Fire film to get you, this is my contribution to it, but like secretly behind a curtain, I'm still that person. And it gobsmacked me that they chose themselves over like you're at the one yard line. I know five people in my life that told me the night before final exams, they decided forget graduation, college graduation. Like these are straight A students. And I'm like, why would you not just, just grab the brass ring? And, and they were just like, this wasn't me. I was living my parents' dream and all that stuff. And man, I, I, So yes, the one artist spoke to me about, I'm only gonna do nine shows a year. If you want me, you know what price I want. I'm gonna do nine shows a year that will be the equivalent of what would happen if I just dragged myself to death doing 75 shows around the world and losing myself. And I understood, but even on the ride home, I still wasn't sure that I would choose My sanity over, it's.

00:40:53
Speaker 2: Like De Niro and heat. Never get attached to anything. You can't walk away from 60 seconds flat if you feel the heat coming around the corner.

00:40:59
Speaker 1: But he had to go back to that hotel just for one. Like, if he just, and like, that's what I'm wrestling with.

00:41:08
Speaker 2: No, listen, I just want to say this to you. That's all I'm going to say. This was the first year since I've been home that I enjoyed me. because I was everything for everybody else. When I tell you, to this day, like, do you know this morning, I knew I had to be here from Philly, because I usually stay in Miami.

00:41:29
Speaker 1: Love it there. So I had to be here.

00:41:31
Speaker 2: So I woke up six something. I said, let me put the clock back on for 830. I went back to sleep, chill, jumped in the shower, jumped in the car and rode up here. But listen, in the process, and listen, just think about this. I'm saying to myself, I'm going to get there. And the time is like right there. But this year, the air smells different. The air smells extremely different. The food tastes way better. Because I'm not rushing to get to nowhere no more. I talk to my grandma. My grandma will be 92 September 30th. She's still wearing New Balance, walking around.

00:42:11
Speaker 1: Real live Philly.

00:42:12
Speaker 2: She's a real live Philly Jonah this day. Talk to you what?

00:42:16
Speaker 1: What she doing?

00:42:16
Speaker 2: Like, I said, nanny, how long did it, how was it? She said, boy, it was fast. She's faster than I think. 92, right? She said, it seemed like anything, like it was quick. So I'm sitting here to say to myself, like, the way I look at this game of life, nobody's really paying no attention to it. And I'm going to just break it down to you. Life is a game.

00:42:39
Speaker 1: It's four quarters.

00:42:41
Speaker 2: You got birth to 20, that's quarter one. 21 to 40, that's quarter two. Once you get to 40, that's when the halftime show. That's when you get to go back to the locker room and look at the scoreboard and say, is life kicking my ass or am I kicking life ass? You got to look at the scoreboard of life, right? And then once you go back on that field, right? Because you ain't got that much time at the halftime show. When you go back on that field, you got to say, damn, how am I going to put myself in position in this third quarter? And that third quarter is from 41 to 60. Some people might get ejected from the game of life before they get to 60. They might not go to the fourth quarter of life. And then you got from 61 to 80. And in that process, hopefully you can make it to 80, but most people don't never finish that fourth quarter of life. And then the people that do get to 80 and move on, that's overtime. My grandmom's in overtime right now. Let's just be realistic. It's 8.3 people on the planet. In the next 50 years, half of the planet is going to be dead. The baby that was born today is a baby that was born today that's going to be 50 years old.

00:43:52
Speaker 1: I'm 47.

00:43:52
Speaker 2: The chances of me still being here is not that, you know, I'm going to be somewhere else.

00:43:57
Speaker 1: Don't manifuck yourself, man.

00:43:59
Speaker 2: I'm just being real.

00:44:00
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:44:00
Speaker 2: I'm being real. Like, you got to think about this. When you look at life, right? I'm going to show you something. When you look at life, everybody be playing, so we never enjoy ourselves because we're trying to enjoy everybody else. So what happened is, We find ourselves in situations where we're working for the world, but we ain't working for us. When are you going to start working for you? Right here, real time. Grab that. Real time.

00:44:25
Speaker 1: You see that? You see that?

00:44:27
Speaker 2: You see how many people died today?

00:44:29
Speaker 1: This is a lie.

00:44:30
Speaker 2: That's world meters. You see how many people died today? You see how many people was born today? How many people died today?

00:44:37
Speaker 1: 34,780,000. No, no, that's probably the year. Oh, deaths this year. Oh, today, they keep, oh, it won't stop.

00:44:45
Speaker 2: 87,000, just every three seconds.

00:44:47
Speaker 1: How many people died this year? 34,780,269,771. Now, what I'm saying to say to you, Quest, is this. Only thing that's guaranteed to us is our death date, and we don't know when that shit is.

00:45:10
Speaker 2: We don't know.

00:45:11
Speaker 1: It's overwhelming. It's overwhelming.

00:45:13
Speaker 2: But the reality is, I don't know why the food tastes way better this year for me. But I guess I do. Because I started saying, no, I'm tired. Let me go to sleep. I get to that later. I stopped rushing to go nowhere. Like, I'm going to get there. So at the end of the day, you will sit here and you will choose anybody. This is what yes to you and no to them is about. It's about when is you going to stop being a yes man to everybody? And when is you going to start being like, because the only people that get a pass.

00:45:44
Speaker 1: All right.

00:45:45
Speaker 2: And this is why it's this why it's so corny. Like adults be so corny. This is why adults be so corny. The only people that adults, the only human beings on this planet that adults was swift and so bad and tough to say no to is the kids. But a friend come up, a friend that you know that just want to use you. Hey, I need you.

00:46:05
Speaker 1: All right, man.

00:46:07
Speaker 2: And then you feel bad about it because you wanted to say no, but you was a coward enough. You were so much of a coward. So you say yes. This is what yes, you know, to them is about because we live in a new world where as though manipulation is at its highest form. Nobody want to speak about that. But now everybody's slick. When I grew up, the only people that were slick was the people in the streets. Now everybody is slick. Everybody's going to find a way to maneuver to try to make you, especially when they know you're a good person. I know how to make Quest feel bad. He's not going to say no to me. And then my whole thing is, How many yeses do I owe you if you're my friend? How many do I owe you? How many do I owe you, Quest? Is it a limit on yeses? Like, damn, I can't. And then when I say no, I'm the best. All right, well, listen, if you're going to market me as a bad person in your mind, stop calling me, stop checking up, all because I said no. Tell our other friends, yeah, man, I don't mess with Quest. I fell out with Quest.

00:46:58
Speaker 1: You're like, what?

00:46:59
Speaker 2: I ain't even know. You ain't even know just because you said no. Yeah, because you know I needed him to do this. But what about the 15 other things I did? No is the most disrespectful word in today's society. It's equivalent to spitting in somebody's face. Especially when you're straightforward. Quest will be like, yo, no, I can't do it, Quest.

00:47:16
Speaker 1: No.

00:47:17
Speaker 2: How dare you tell me that? How dare you tell me no? Who you think you is to tell me no? People think they're entitled to yes. So now, as we're talking about it, when are you going to start using no more, Quest?

00:47:28
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you something. I was, damn, this is the most vulnerable I've ever been on this podcast. Mm-hmm. 5.54 a.m., I was going to cancel this interview. I pride myself on my professionalism. Yes, the 10 roots are rolling their eyes in the air because in root circles, I am often late. And that's psychological self-sabotage shit that I can easily fix with, you know, really set my mind to it. But I've never been so I'm such a people pleaser. My reputation as being professional and overworking means more to me than me. And I issued out a no that I've been ducking for seven months, seven months of, and yes, I know the life perception is, like for you, a no could be literally uttered in three seconds. For me, I got to go home and ponder it. I got to read a whole bunch of books. I got to meditate on it. I got to do affirmations. I got to do, you know, whatever protection, like not being liked or not letting people down is just one. You know, when we find a safety chip, we just stick to it. Even if it's to like the, the, the detriment of, of our lives, man. And, Last night was the moment where I came to grips with, like, I got to choose me and not feel bad about it. And I got to tell somebody no. And I did it. But, man. people that see the reason i want people to get close to me because i know like there's a part of me that is vulnerable and will easily show you how the machinery is made and yeah okay i'll i'll dj your party Yeah, I'll write these liner notes for you. Yeah, I'll do your platform. Man, I got to fucking do all the music clearance for this entire movie. All right, let me push around my vacation. All right, well, I could do that next year. And I said it. And then I apologized for 90 minutes for saying it. As human beings, we're so like pre-programmed to people please that even when you do the right thing for yourself, it's such a foreign thing. Like why we hate going to the gym or why you hate eating the right foods or all those things. It's like, cause we're programmed to just go against our own interests, man. And like, advocate for myself and saying the word no, like, It's almost like I had to take a day off just to see what it felt like to be this new version of me.

00:50:40
Speaker 2: Can I play something for you?

00:50:42
Speaker 1: Hit me.

00:50:43
Speaker 2: I didn't know this was yours, but this was meant for you.

00:50:46
Speaker 1: I didn't even know.

00:50:47
Speaker 2: That's what's so crazy about it.

00:50:49
Speaker 1: You know?

00:50:50
Speaker 3: What you explaining you know for? Did you ever explain all them yeses you gave? All them yeses you gave somebody. Did you explain the reason you gave all them yeses?

00:50:57
Speaker 1: No.

00:50:57
Speaker 2: You never explained.

00:50:58
Speaker 3: You just say yes and they keep going.

00:51:00
Speaker 2: Yes, you can borrow money.

00:51:01
Speaker 1: Yes, I can be at your event.

00:51:02
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

00:51:04
Speaker 3: And they never, I'm talking about never, never did you break down a yes. Did you? Did you explain a yes to them?

00:51:10
Speaker 1: No.

00:51:10
Speaker 2: What you look like explaining a no, huh?

00:51:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:15
Speaker 3: You better not. You better not explain no no.

00:51:19
Speaker 1: What you explain a no for? You don't know how to explain no no.

00:51:22
Speaker 3: No is because you don't want to do it.

00:51:23
Speaker 1: That's it.

00:51:24
Speaker 3: You don't want to do it, so you said no. Don't be sitting there giving nobody no explanation or trying to break down why to no, no, no.

00:51:31
Speaker 2: You got a right to say no.

00:51:32
Speaker 3: Just like you had a right to say yes and you said yes and they ain't asking no understanding.

00:51:35
Speaker 1: Of the yes. No.

00:51:37
Speaker 2: Stand on that no.

00:51:39
Speaker 1: No. You better not explain your no. I was afraid that you were going to teach me this lesson today.

00:51:45
Speaker 2: I had to.

00:51:46
Speaker 1: And once again, Questlove uses this platform to fix his life. Ah, man. Did I just ruin the show? No. No. I needed this, man.

00:52:07
Speaker 2: I'm glad you came.

00:52:07
Speaker 1: The Questlove Show is hosted by me, Amir Questlove Thompson. The executive producers are Sean G., Brian Calhoun, and me. Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Payne. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown. Edited by Alex Conner. iHeart Video support by Mark Canton. Logos, graphics, and animation by Nick Aloi. Additional support by Lance Coleman. Special thanks to Kathy Brum. Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, rate, review, and share The Questlove Show wherever you stream your podcasts. Make sure you follow us on socials. That's at QLS.com. Check out hundreds and hundreds of TOLS episodes, including the Questlove Supreme shows in our podcast archives. Questlove shows a production of iHeartRadio.