Wallo267 Part 2

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Questlove Show is a production of iHeartRadio. What's up, people? It's Questlove.

00:00:10
Speaker 2: And last week, we ran part one of my conversation with Walla. I wrote an Instagram post about it. And this conversation really hit me in an extreme stressful.

00:00:23
Speaker 1: Time in my life. I was trying to fight my instinct to cancel the show.

00:00:28
Speaker 2: And I'm glad I didn't. You know, it was just a dark week for me. And this conversation meant a lot. But Wallo ended up giving me kind of an intervention, so to speak. Yes, there are these episodes of QLS where I talk more than I want to.

00:00:44
Speaker 1: This is one of those episodes.

00:00:46
Speaker 2: So, but, you know, Wallo showed me how he lives and how liberated his mind and his soul are. You know, I found it really inspiring. It damn near moved me to tears. But I really wasn't sure I wanted to air this, but... You know, it's real, and I'm authentic, and I owe that to myself, and I owe it to all of you out there, and thank you for supporting the show and all the feedback and whatnot. That was part one, and we left that part of the conversation with a breakthrough, and now this is part two.

00:01:15
Speaker 1: While it kind of takes over my.

00:01:17
Speaker 2: Show, imagine that, and we exchange stories and talk about music and life, and you can hear that I'm genuinely.

00:01:25
Speaker 1: Affected by his pep talk, so.

00:01:27
Speaker 2: part two of the interview with wallow on uh the quest love show hope you enjoy it that was a hell mary pass and i caught that shit with just one second left barely and i gotta feel good about standing my ground.

00:01:48
Speaker 3: You got to his game time.

00:01:51
Speaker 2: Man um how can i pivot all right um Can you take over the podcast?

00:01:58
Speaker 1: I'm going to take it over.

00:01:59
Speaker 3: I got this. I think I know something. I think I know how to do something like this. Let me just say this, right?

00:02:04
Speaker 1: Oh, man.

00:02:05
Speaker 3: Let me break this down, right?

00:02:06
Speaker 1: Shit, man.

00:02:07
Speaker 3: So I'm going to just talk about you real quick. The Roots, right? So y'all was having the picnic, right? So this young cat come and say, damn, man, like this Roots story, man, this story. Because he didn't really understand it. He heard Jay-Z was coming, so he was like, He didn't even know. He from Philly. Didn't even know what The Roots was. Young guy, right? So he was like, man, like, what is this, man? Who started this joint? I said, The Roots, man. He said, yeah, but what is The Roots, right? What is that? Is it a story? Like, they didn't know what it was, right?

00:02:38
Speaker 1: No, I know.

00:02:38
Speaker 3: So I broke it down to him, right? And this was an unbelievable education, right? So I tell him who you are. I pick it up a little bit. I'm showing him the albums. He's like, yo. And you know what he asked me? He said... How did they become so big to have their own picnic? And to hear Yung, I said, listen, because he was messed up with like, you know, I plays y'all stuff. He's like, yo, man, they did that type of rap. Like, how did they? I said, nephew, the marketing of music today and how they marketed it to y'all and what y'all think it is, y'all didn't understand that hip hop was the soundtrack to a struggle. It was the soundtrack to a struggle in the 80s, the 90s. It was something that we listened to when we didn't have no food, when the refrigerator was broke. when the stamps ain't come through, whatever it was. It was just this energy to get fly to the streets, the block parties. I said, whatever. So I go all the way back. All because he asked me about the festival and didn't know who y'all was. So I had to break it all the way down. I said, listen. I said, this is the thing. We didn't segregate hip hop when we came up. I said, listen, I will make a mixtape. He's like, you was D? I said, no, I wasn't no DJ. I said, I will make a mixtape. I said, my brother had this Boombox that had two cassette players, right? And what I would do is I would just, he said, how would, it was hard to.

00:03:55
Speaker 1: Explain to him. Trying to explain to him how you got music right.

00:03:57
Speaker 3: So I explained to him, right, because he saw me with a Walkman one time and it blew his mind. So I'm breaking it down, how was it? I said, in my mind, I was a DJ. I was making my own mixtapes, right? And I said, this is how it would be. I said, it'd be NWA. The next song might be Slick Rick. The next song might be, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, Leaders of the new school. The next song might be ultra magnetic. So I'm bringing it down. He's like, what the fuck is that, man? So I said, all right, bet it.

00:04:26
Speaker 1: I said, bet.

00:04:27
Speaker 3: Let me bring it down. I said, say you might be listening to 21 Savage. The next song would be J. Cole. The next song would be, he was like, that don't mix. I said, no. Right. This is what I'm saying. Y'all segregated hip hop, so y'all not allowed to enjoy hip hop. You would have somebody like, you only listen to, oh man, I only listen to Drill. So it was like, you leaving out a whole, we didn't do that. Every, all hip hop was ours. And I said, the part that the Roots played, they played the major part. Because I said, I said, let me explain something to you. At the beginning, you misintroduced me because I am an MC. I'm a former MC. So you got to understand that.

00:05:06
Speaker 1: I know this.

00:05:06
Speaker 3: So I was like, hold on, I am an artist.

00:05:08
Speaker 1: I know this. Yes, you are.

00:05:10
Speaker 3: And you got to remember this too, though. You know, in the hood, everybody rapped. What's crazy about the Roots is, When y'all first came out back in the day, y'all had Dice with y'all. My homeboy lived next door to Dice, P.M. Low, of Logan. He introduced me to Dice when I was doing the music thing. He introduced me to Dice. Dice took a liking to me. Dice took me to my man, Peanut. This is when I started Major Figures. I started Major Figures. Dice helped me pick that name out. Because Dice was in the basement.

00:05:36
Speaker 1: Dice never told me that.

00:05:37
Speaker 3: Dice was in the basement. He came to my grandma's crib. He was in the basement. And I wrote some names down. He was like, yo, pick that joint.

00:05:43
Speaker 1: That's joint.

00:05:44
Speaker 3: And Dice used to take me to my homeboy, Peanut Studios, like, yo, Tina, I got him. Just let him record, me and Gil. Gil didn't really know him like I did. But Dice, it was just a connection. But what I'm saying to say is this. Marketing messed everything up. And even if you think about the music, like, right now, marketing told us that digital is better than everything in life. Internet is better than everything in life, right? But guess what? Everybody in the world is trying to go back to when we existed. We're dinosaurs. Me and you was to when we existed. Vinyl is jumping. CDs is jumping. VCRs is jumping. Regular, you got cafes and restaurants that don't allow you to use your phone because they want you to talk. Everything about us dinosaur time, everybody want to reconnect with that. Everybody is trying to put their phone down more. Think about it. Think about it. Everybody is fascinated. I remember I was talking to, what's his name, Lil Yachty. I sent him 50 albums, and I sent him 50 black.

00:06:48
Speaker 1: Movies, period.

00:06:49
Speaker 3: From back, he lost his mind. He couldn't believe the covers. He was like, yo, this shit crazy.

00:06:53
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah.

00:06:55
Speaker 3: He's like, it's a lot of ideas. This is the problem. Us older people is losing. The younger people is winning.

00:07:03
Speaker 1: This is why.

00:07:03
Speaker 3: They had daytime. And now niggas spend a lifetime going back to check out our time, to check out our music, to check out our movies, to check out our era, to check out our clothes, our style. Do you realize that everybody's fascinated with yesterday? But they told us that today is better. Think about it. Think about everything. Everything is popping right now from back in the day. Like one of y'all vinyls probably cost a shitload of money.

00:07:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:07:31
Speaker 3: You got people. I'm seeing, I'm in a, what's that record store, Jake? You might know it too. the record store in LA, Adore, it started with it. I'm in there on a Saturday, right? So I go in there, I'm going to grab some CDs. Cause I bought this Supreme, got this dope ass CD player, right? I bought that joint, I'm like, damn, this joint. So I go in there, I'm buying some CDs, I'm buying anything. I'm like, I see all these young people when they're buying vinyl. They're buying records, but I'm like, what the fuck do you know about vinyl? And they just, I'm like, he got, damn, he got prints. What the fuck he know about that? I know he ain't even got no mustache. Like, you ain't even got, like, I'm in there, I'm seeing all these young kids of all races, nationalities, just grabbing, I'm like, what the fuck is going on? I'm like, NWA? I'm like, they just going crazy. I'm like, where do they even get these lists? They must be Googling, because I'm like, you know. But the fact to see all them in there, so I'm like, they got so much more to tap into. They got a vault. I'm talking about, like, even when I talk to kids about certain movies, I'm like, you never seen this? You never seen, they be like, it's just crazy. But the marketing told everybody that digital is better than real life.

00:08:41
Speaker 2: We also live in a disposable culture that, you know, we don't revere or even consider it art or worthy to hear today and discard it.

00:08:54
Speaker 1: It's deep. That was Elva Pivot, man. You're good.

00:08:57
Speaker 3: I'm a, I'm a, I'm a. I know how to do this. I know how to do this, man.

00:09:01
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:09:02
Speaker 2: So as a person who fears never working again, like how long did it really take for you to acclimate?

00:09:09
Speaker 1: Yes.

00:09:10
Speaker 2: I know the importance of, I don't want to give people that, that false impression that I am 24 seven constantly working.

00:09:18
Speaker 1: On all that stuff.

00:09:18
Speaker 2: I'm very much aware that, you know, I have to just to survive, you know? And so it feels foreign.

00:09:28
Speaker 1: Taking a day off. Like, now I'm in a cycle where, like, one day, usually a Sunday.

00:09:33
Speaker 2: I don't do nothing. And, like, to still be in my pajamas, like, after 2 p.m. Because I'm so programmed to, like, I got to work. Got to do something. Got to feel worthy or whatever it is. But, like, how long does it really take you to wear, like, where you mean it and you're fine with it?

00:09:52
Speaker 3: Coming into this new year, I mean, coming into this year, right, I said to myself, I'm enjoying me. And I just did it. I just started, like, stopped taking a lot of phone calls. Like, people would be like, you know, after a couple calls, they may hit me, and I might text them. Yeah, I'm cool. You cool?

00:10:10
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful for you stopping here because. Oh, no, no, no, no.

00:10:13
Speaker 3: I wanted to come here because I enjoy the platform. So my whole thing is, like, I reached out. So Sean, I reached out to Sean. Yo, Sean. Sean has always been like a mentor.

00:10:22
Speaker 1: Dude.

00:10:23
Speaker 3: Sean is the guy.

00:10:24
Speaker 1: Your biggest champion.

00:10:25
Speaker 3: He's that guy. So what happened is I just said no. I woke up in the St. Regis in Dominican Republic this new year, right?

00:10:36
Speaker 1: Unbelievable.

00:10:36
Speaker 3: It was unbelievable. It was like a new joint they built, right? So I wake up.

00:10:41
Speaker 1: I'm running.

00:10:42
Speaker 3: I'm playing. I'm running the water. I'm just loving it.

00:10:44
Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah.

00:10:45
Speaker 3: And I'm like, mm-hmm, yeah. I ain't answering my phone a lot. I don't need, like, no, no, no.

00:10:51
Speaker 1: Oh, God.

00:10:52
Speaker 3: No, I'm like, I'm not answering my phone.

00:10:53
Speaker 1: The pain I feel.

00:10:54
Speaker 3: I'm doing me because I realized, and then I wound up getting this spot. I'm going to Miami all the time. I'm like, hold up. I go down here. I might spend, in the weekend, you know, to stay in the one or whatever. You spending the grip. I said, damn, let me get my own place. Got a place down there on the water.

00:11:09
Speaker 1: Collins.

00:11:10
Speaker 3: Out there in Surfside. Bar Harbor.

00:11:12
Speaker 1: Dope.

00:11:14
Speaker 3: And I just started walking. Walking and riding my bike.

00:11:18
Speaker 1: Right? I'm walking.

00:11:19
Speaker 3: I'm enjoying life. I just keep going. Next thing you know, I wind up in Arizona. I'm like, damn, I'm in Scottsdale. I'm like, let me just drive to Sedona. Drive to Sedona. Next thing you know, I'm on a trail. I'm going to Devil's Bridge, and I'm walking on these trails so deep. I'm in there. I'm like, I got to sit down. I'm sweating. I'm sweating so much. I'm like, I feel like I'm in a real desert. I'm hiking. I'm doing all this. I'm just talking about, I'm just really living, bro. I'm sitting in a crib, right, on a random, like, Wednesday, in the middle of the day, say, I ain't going nowhere. I'm just watching these movies I ain't watched in a while. And I'm just living, listening to music, grabbing CDs, and I got cassettes, and I'm just, I'm doing me, man. It's like because what I realize is I got to get out of this joint one day. And I don't want to be the person that get to my funeral, and when I show up at my funeral, I'm talking about something, damn, I should have done this. I was in a hospital one time, and I did a video. I was talking about it. And I just walked in there because I knew this girl there, So she was like, why don't we come through? I mean, I got somebody that I want to see. I went there, somebody was ill. And I was just going room to room. And what I noticed is all these rooms I went to, I was like, tell me all your patients. Nobody was sitting there with them. And I would ask them questions and talk to them. And I realized a lot of people would be like, live, baby. You better live so you never know. You just never know, never know. So I don't want to be the person that sit out here questioning. Don't be like, no. Like, I'm telling you, when you give yourself time and you say, I don't even call it cheat day. That's a life day. I'm not doing nothing. Don't try to be slick and just go Sunday. Go Wednesday. Go Tuesday and just cut.

00:12:55
Speaker 1: A weekday?

00:12:57
Speaker 3: Squander a weekday?

00:12:59
Speaker 1: You know what I got accomplished on a weekday?

00:13:01
Speaker 3: This is what you do. This is what you do. Write down your favorite restaurants in the country. So wherever you're at that Tuesday, hotel, whatever, sleep later. Make a reservation for the restaurant later. Just chill. Listen to the music you want to listen to. Just quest. Just enjoy it. It's going to be all right. Nothing's going to happen. You're going to wake up Wednesday and go, ah, and you're going to feel better. I'm telling you.

00:13:33
Speaker 2: Leave it to me to manifest a life of drumming that leads to a life of a career, that leads to a path of a talk show.

00:13:43
Speaker 1: That leads a path.

00:13:44
Speaker 2: To, okay, let's just say short version of it. Giving me time to take my dreams seriously. Because that's a whole other thing. Like survival and hustling versus like asking shit. Like what is it that you want to do? What is it that you? And that spawning off to a platform is kind of really the most public intervention talk I've ever gotten. probably in my life, but I'm just at that place now, you know, and I, I thank you for this. It's hard being this raw and like, this is a major fear of mine.

00:14:24
Speaker 1: This is why I hide and hide.

00:14:26
Speaker 2: Behind a drum set, hide behind DJ gig, hide behind Tariq, behind Jimmy Fallon, behind everything, hide behind the shell, hide because, you know, we know what our like life mission and our life purpose is. And, like sometimes trying to heed the call is just like one of the most fearful things ever. And so, you know, I think maybe watching you, you see me thinking where Marty McFly get on the skateboard and they're on the flight. Like, look at him go, look at him go. And I'm just like, yo, like leadership. Like he knows how to talk to people and communicate and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And the way I dream about like, what's my version of that in life. And really it's, Me also knowing my avoiding that mission and how now I know I don't have any choice. Like, I can't help but accept that. And so, I mean, I've been running away from it. And it's just like, I needed somebody to really.

00:15:29
Speaker 1: Thanks, man.

00:15:31
Speaker 3: No problem.

00:15:31
Speaker 1: This is the Questlove show.

00:15:33
Speaker 3: We're not ending this. We can still talk.

00:15:38
Speaker 1: I got to process everything I just learned today, man.

00:15:52
Speaker 3: This is the game we're going to play. Question for question.

00:15:55
Speaker 1: Easy.

00:15:56
Speaker 3: Simple questions, right? Okay. I think they simple. They might not be, but we want to ask questions for question.

00:16:01
Speaker 1: Yes.

00:16:01
Speaker 3: I'm going to start first.

00:16:02
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:16:03
Speaker 3: Greatest album you ever heard in your life.

00:16:07
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:16:07
Speaker 2: The analytical part of me is going to intervene because there's kind of two categories, which is like, There's the album that was the, this is my calling. And then there's the album that's like, this is what I want to do for a living. I think the calling one's the more stronger one. I spent a lifetime in the family business. My dad was an oldies doo-wop singer from the 50s. My mom sang with him. They had a nightclub act. So by the time I was five, I was part of the They didn't believe in babysitters. So they wanted their, you know, like there's people on the block that never let the kids out their sight, even if it has to.

00:16:51
Speaker 1: Be in the nightclub, like working the lights or whatever.

00:16:54
Speaker 2: But I grew up interning for my dad, you know, but it's like junior prom time and I want to get like a, I'm going to get fresh or whatever. So I had to get my first real job. And there's a, you remember Big Al's on, um, You pin 34 or 1.

00:17:09
Speaker 1: I ain't familiar. Big Al was a.

00:17:12
Speaker 2: Hamburger spot based on a fictional character from Happy Days.

00:17:16
Speaker 3: Oh, shit.

00:17:17
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the video Buddy Holly by Weezer?

00:17:21
Speaker 3: I remember that.

00:17:21
Speaker 1: Right. So they're in Big Al's cafe. It looks like the 50s.

00:17:24
Speaker 3: Happy Days.

00:17:25
Speaker 2: So that was my first getting an after school job just so I can get extra money for a tux and all that stuff. For most people, summer job is also like saving up for a leather jacket for next year for school. And this is the third week of June. And Public Enemy's Nation of Millions album is coming out that day. That album is an achievement of a lot of things. But primarily what it means to me is that's the album that made all the boring parts of my dad's massive record collection make sense.

00:18:00
Speaker 1: Because like, Music wise, I'm like, wait a minute. Dad plays that song at home. I know that song.

00:18:05
Speaker 2: Oh, I know that guitar line. And suddenly became like a, my mind like, yeah, yeah. So it was like CSI, like literally I'm going home. Like, so how they get these drums for that? And then like, I taught myself, you know, watching Stevie Wonder on the Cosby show, like do the whole jamming on the one thing with Malcolm Jamal Warner. Like, I don't know if you remember that episode, the Huxtables getting a car accident with Stevie Wonder's limousine.

00:18:27
Speaker 3: I ain't seen that one.

00:18:28
Speaker 1: In the most Cosby way ever.

00:18:31
Speaker 2: Him being Stevie Wonder, he invites the Huxtables to visit with him in a music studio in Brooklyn.

00:18:38
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, what a way to get out of a lawsuit.

00:18:41
Speaker 2: Like any other Brooklyn family would have had a come up like Stevie Wonder. So they all come to visit Stevie Wonder. And he's just like messing around, having a jam session. And what he's showing them is how sampling works. And so he has each one of them come up. Like, say a word, Theo. And he'll be like, jamming on the one. Like, this is prime Rocket.

00:19:04
Speaker 3: All that stuff.

00:19:05
Speaker 1: All that stuff era.

00:19:06
Speaker 2: But what it's also doing, it's planting the seed with every 15, 16, 17-year-old.

00:19:11
Speaker 1: Like, what's that?

00:19:13
Speaker 2: And I'm watching this. Just Blaze is watching this. DJ Premier is watching this. Pete Rock is watching this.

00:19:18
Speaker 3: Q-Tip.

00:19:19
Speaker 2: So what it's doing is putting a chip in our head that there's a digital way to be creative, with music and records through sampling. And so it seemed like a novelty on that show, but what it's secretly gonna do is gonna change our lives. And three years later, this is when classic hip hop like makes sense. So in order to sample, you need something to sample. So we all go in our whatever's at home. And my dad just happened to have an immaculate record collection. So by the time Public Enemy comes along, it was a moment so powerful and I you know I'm supposed to be there to start cutting french fries at like 11 a.m. for the rush order I'm from West Philly 52nd and New Sage and I worked at 34-1 in UPenn and by the time I got to work I was at the top of side two showing what you.

00:20:08
Speaker 3: Got you know Tell them what you got.

00:20:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just never heard a musical assault of my life soundtrack thrown at me that way. And I wanted in on it. And I went on my lunch break, and I had to hear what Side 2 sounded like. So I went on my lunch break, sat in the park, and I just never went back to work. I listened to that record six times over and was like, this is what I want to do for a living. So I called Tariq. and this was back in the day, remember? He used to play songs over the phone and whatnot. Every classic hip hop record, he would play me the entire Cool G rap thing, play Men at Work four times in a row. We've been closing our show with Men at Work for the last 20 years.

00:20:55
Speaker 1: That's our connection. But yeah, Nation of Millions is really the album that.

00:21:02
Speaker 2: Was my come to Jesus moment where I can take the ingredients inside my house and figure out a way for me to utilize that so I can get me and.

00:21:12
Speaker 1: Us out of that house. Because it's also the 80s. And you know what it is.

00:21:22
Speaker 2: So to me, I mean, it's a creative album, but it was also like the blueprint I needed, music education, to figure out how to get out of there.

00:21:32
Speaker 3: Major.

00:21:33
Speaker 1: What's yours?

00:21:33
Speaker 3: Process. Process.

00:21:37
Speaker 1: Sanfa.

00:21:39
Speaker 3: What is it about that album that touched you? I first got home from prison, right? And I used to walk Broad Street all the time. I walked from Broad and Allegheny to South Street, downtown, whatever, right? So I'm in a record store on South Street, 2017. So I go inside, and there's a lot of albums I can name that I love over the years that was just great, but this is different. I go inside the record store, and there's a song called Plastic playing. He got a song called Plastic. If you hear his voice, it's like.

00:22:10
Speaker 1: I know his voice well.

00:22:11
Speaker 3: So I asked the dude in the record store, I said, yo, what is that? Because it was a sound I never heard before. And it was emotional. It was like, and he said, right there, you stand in the front, I'd be pointing. And I was like, and the album was there, the vinyl, right? So I went on my thing, found it. And I must have had that song on repeat for like weeks. It was something that I needed to, I don't know. It was just that it was a lot coming home from prison. My brother and I, brother getting killed when I was in prison. I'm coming home and it was deep because I came home and I remember myself, I was looking for my brother without looking for my brother because, you know, I never, being in prison, I didn't go to the funeral. So I'm thinking like, it'd be like, I'd be laughing about something. It'd be, you know, you know how sometimes we might laugh. Well, I don't know if anybody do this. I'm laughing at myself, talking to myself. I'm like, wait till I tell Steve this. I might see something funny. Catch yourself. But that song, it just was like it was an emotional thing I was going through just being home and always talking about thinking I'm going to see. It was deep by my brother. So that song got me through all this. It got me through. And then after that, that's the album, but just him in itself. He got another song called Can't Get Close on the EP he had, but it was just deep. So I always say to myself like, yo, I don't care. So I started DMing him like, yo, I got to. I'm like, man, I got to meet you. And I see you read the DMs, but don't listen to me. So everybody like this. No, it was so powerful, right? Because I'm the dude that's like this. I'm still a fan of music and people I know. I still lose my mind. I see a legend. I'm like, whoa. I go crazy, right? So I'm like, so anybody I would run into that would be like a supporter of what I got going on, and they'd be from London. I'd be like, yo, you know Sanford? They'd be like, yo, I'll be seeing him on the show. I'd be like, yo, tell him that I'm looking.

00:24:02
Speaker 1: For him, right?

00:24:07
Speaker 3: So everybody that knew me knew that I love sampling. I would post this stuff. I would put stuff in the store. I'm like, yo, this is the guy. His music is the greatest in the world. So one day I get a call, right? It's 2022, my birthday, June 21st, right? So I get a call. I get a call from Shanice, my homegirl, Shanice. In London, she worked at YouTube because I'm the cultural advisor at YouTube at the time. So she worked in London. I get a call from her and Tuma. You know Tuma Basa?

00:24:36
Speaker 1: Yes.

00:24:37
Speaker 3: So her and Tuma called me and treated me like, yo, Wilder, this, that, and third, we need you to come to London. And I'm like, what do we got to do? We got to do some like, we need you to come to London and we're doing this thing, program, because they had a program where you interview people or different type of stuff. So he was like, yeah, we need you to come. I mean, you know it's your birthday, but we need you to come to interview somebody.

00:24:57
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right.

00:24:58
Speaker 3: I'm like, what? They talking about, we need you to interview Sanford. I hung the phone up like, man. I'm like, yeah, all right. So I'm like, I'm laughing. They're like, no, we true. So I'm thinking they joking, right?

00:25:07
Speaker 1: Right.

00:25:09
Speaker 3: Man, so this is my first time ever out the country. At this time, I was on parole. I'm not on parole. I already had my passport, but I never knew when I was going to use it. So they say, if you had a criminal record before, they're not going to let you into London.

00:25:22
Speaker 1: London's so hard, man.

00:25:24
Speaker 3: So listen, so listen. This is my first time out the country. I'm by myself. I get off the plane, right?

00:25:30
Speaker 1: Anxiety. Hold up, hold up, hold up.

00:25:32
Speaker 3: I get off the plane, right? So when I get off the plane, I walk into these, you know how they got the thing you put your passport on and it open? But when I go, it's a dude next to me. So he got it. I'm putting my joint in. He put his joint in a turd. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, is that me? So I'm like, no, but it ain't. So it's him. So the people come out, they come with me. So I'm like, oh, shit. So I go back again, put it there.

00:25:57
Speaker 1: It's taking time, right?

00:25:58
Speaker 3: It's taking time, right? It's taking time. So I'm like, oh, shit. And then it turned green and it opened. I was like, so I'm like, damn. Because listen, you got to think about it. I've never been out, I'm by myself. So I go and walk through the area. You know, you got to go get to the Ubers, but they be like, I couldn't wait to get into them cars. I'm like, yo, this is decent. I'm a little scared because I'm not used to the cars coming this way.

00:26:20
Speaker 1: Right.

00:26:20
Speaker 3: So I'm in the window. I said, let me slide away because this ain't weird because the car is coming this way. So we go. I get there to the hotel. And I'm like, I ain't really believing this happened. So I can remember a couple days I'm in London going to Soho with Tuma, going to the U2 building. I'm doing a bunch of stuff. Next thing you know, they're like, yeah, man, the day comes. I'm like, I'm going to meet him. I couldn't believe when I walked in that room, you know, tears, just unbelievable tears came, just kept coming out of me because I was like, yo, you've been the soundtrack to me getting Dylan, my brother. It was just, it was just a create. I put it on, I don't know if you've seen it, it was on social media. It was just like, it was so much for me because I was like, I grew up at a time where as though you never got to personally talk to the artist you was a fan of. I never met Sade, I never seen Anita Baker Prince. So, so it was like this back in the day moment that I was loving because it seemed like Everybody is so attainable. And the thing that I like about him, he don't post like that. You don't see him. You don't really like him. We did an interview that I got. We never released this. And that interview that day, it never was released. I still got it.

00:27:26
Speaker 1: You just talked to him?

00:27:27
Speaker 3: I talked to a crowd, but we never released it. I got the footage. We never released it.

00:27:30
Speaker 1: Why are you holding it?

00:27:31
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm going to put it out. I got something I'm working on, but I'll put it. But me and him, he told everybody to leave the room, and me and him talked. And he said, like, he was so messed up because he was like, I didn't know my music would do this for somebody. And it was like humbling to him. And I'm like, what? I'm telling myself like, you don't know who to fuck you with. Like he didn't, like I think hearing somebody talk to you about, because this is personal. This is about my brother dying. This is about my life, about me coming, you know, my reentry back to society. This is different. I think it's a different story for him. And the main thing I wanted, I was like, I said, did you know I was looking for you? He said, I had about five people tell me. I said, yeah. He said, I was on the train with this guy one time. I was like, that's the dude that used to see you on the train. He used to tell me, I see Sam on the train. So it was just like, that album was like everything to where it's though. That's like every playlist I have, Sanford's always number one on my list, on my playlist, no matter what sound it is. So that's like the album that's like everything.

00:28:30
Speaker 2: The no's that are easy to give because of logic is the no of my unavailability. And I have to say, like, two of my biggest regrets in creativity. I first met him, so there was one time in life, and really it was only for a day and a half, where I was the Raphael Sadiq role of Solange as a seat at the table. She had asked me to, like, this is a part of my life where, like, now that D'Angelo's voodoo is, like, 20 years old, like, the ripple effect is now, like, All right. Where you start getting the calls of new artists that are like influenced by it. Like that's their Stevie Wonder or whatever. And so we literally only do one song with the song that opens that album.

00:29:17
Speaker 1: Falling your way. Yeah.

00:29:21
Speaker 2: And to be in a room full of musicians I'd never met before. And the odd thing about it was that when we recorded, it was done in one of those like hipster Brooklyn studios, but we weren't facing each other as we were playing. Our backs were turned. And so I never got to see Sampa's face. He was a keyboard player on that song. And she's trying to tell me on the low light, because she has that antenna where she knows who the next, and brings us together. And I did my homework because of touring and all that stuff. I couldn't finish the rest of the album. However, like once I discovered like, whoa, I played with that dude, then I became an instant fan. And twice he's asked me to like play on his record, but I just had like, that's like one of my main regrets of that and Thundercat. Like two people that I should have made time out to work with and I never got to do so.

00:30:22
Speaker 1: But especially for him, like I feel you with that. All right. So I will ask you.

00:30:28
Speaker 2: What is, and I'm talking about your childhood, memories from one to ten or whatever, when you mark that time period, what is the one cool kid item that you got to experience.

00:30:42
Speaker 1: Or have when you were a kid?

00:30:44
Speaker 2: Like a happy memory or something that's fond and fuzzy to you.

00:30:49
Speaker 3: This is major. I remember, I never forgot, for like Christmas, right, my brother got me a troop jacket. I went, I lost my mind.

00:30:59
Speaker 1: For Christmas?

00:31:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. This is what happened. What was so crazy is that he didn't even wrap it that good. So as I'm going to, I'm in Nanny's house. I see something. I'm like, what the hell is that? And I see it. And I'm like, and I seen like it was like a hole probably like this big. I'm like, that's a troop jacket. That got to be for me because it's small. Because I'm like the pack. I'm like, yo, listen, there's no BS. I remember my mom told me one time. She's like, boy, I know that jacket's stank. Take it off. I slept in it. I never took this jacket. I wore that every day. And you know I got all the different type of, it was different colors on it, so it don't even match anything. But I wore that jacket every day. I'm telling you, I wore it down until it be like spraying like sun coming out. I wore that jacket. Listen, man. I never took that jacket off. He got me that. That was like, because he got it for me. I was like, yo. And I had these colorful Reeboks. I forget the name. And it didn't match. Nothing matched. But I just wore that fit forever. Like, it didn't matter.

00:31:58
Speaker 1: There's this legendary dude from Philly. Okay, like, I'm born in 71. Yes.

00:32:03
Speaker 2: So by the time LL's Bigger Than Defer comes out, it's 87. I'm 16. And of course, like, that second LL album came. like, was kind of the explosion of, like, obtainable street wear, if you will, for those that couldn't afford the dapper dance and, you know, that level of dress.

00:32:24
Speaker 1: You could get you a troop.

00:32:25
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

00:32:27
Speaker 1: Yes, you could. I mean, there was T.I.

00:32:28
Speaker 3: There was a bunch of other stuff.

00:32:29
Speaker 1: Hip-hop was inclusive. If Run-D.M.C. can get an Adidas, I can get an Adidas.

00:32:34
Speaker 3: Lee Cosportique.

00:32:35
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly. So there was this cat, though.

00:32:40
Speaker 2: I lived in West Philly and my elementary school was downtown in Philly on Broad Street. And so every day this guy would get on and he would be dressed. He only had three outfits and they were all troops. And he would dress like LL Cool J.

00:32:55
Speaker 3: That was major. He was major then.

00:32:57
Speaker 1: You know this guy? I don't know him. I don't know him.

00:33:00
Speaker 3: But to do that is major.

00:33:02
Speaker 1: The whole shit. But the thing is, you remember how LL's dancing? Yeah.

00:33:08
Speaker 3: And I'm bad video. He was doing that.

00:33:11
Speaker 1: That's how he would approach you.

00:33:13
Speaker 3: Like, you know me from the video. My head is like a shot spear. Yo, yo, he was crazy. He was crazy.

00:33:20
Speaker 1: I love it.

00:33:20
Speaker 3: But dude, it was like, it was 87. If I didn't sell him, I'd be like, yo, he a legend.

00:33:26
Speaker 1: It was like seeing a real, yeah.

00:33:29
Speaker 3: I'd be like, damn.

00:33:30
Speaker 1: And he was deaf.

00:33:31
Speaker 2: So the thing is, but the thing is like, you know, like sometimes you'll, you'll see a person that like, if you're on your routine walk and he would always, uh, usually, uh, hearing impaired.

00:33:41
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:33:42
Speaker 2: They will have like these cards that teach you how to do, to do. I've supported that guy. I believe he's given him $ 30 over between seventh grade and ninth grade.

00:33:50
Speaker 3: That's a lot of money. Back then. A, B, C, D, E, F, G. You loved him. He was a lot of money.

00:33:56
Speaker 2: I think I still remember that you would buy a pamphlet for him and you'd give him a dollar. And that's how he'd come up. He'd just get on the L and go through each thing. And Jesse's like a jelly bean. And girls be like, oh, my God.

00:34:07
Speaker 1: Like, but he only.

00:34:10
Speaker 3: He was a legend.

00:34:11
Speaker 1: Every day he wore a troop. But it was like it was his job to be.

00:34:16
Speaker 2: On that 716 AM train.

00:34:20
Speaker 3: He made some money on that train.

00:34:22
Speaker 1: Oh, God.

00:34:22
Speaker 3: That was his route. That was his route because he knew he was going to see you. You got to say, you giving him a dollar? Listen, $ 30, I mean, that was a span of time you gave him that. You ain't just giving him $ 30.

00:34:33
Speaker 1: I've always had a soft spot for buskers.

00:34:36
Speaker 2: Even now, I think it's because Billie Jean was my favorite music video. And there's a moment, like everyone has their, they want to emulate Michael Jackson moment. It's just that my moment happens to be the moment in Billie Jean where he tosses the quarter inside of the cup and then it turns into white tuxedo and gloves.

00:34:57
Speaker 1: That's my God.

00:34:59
Speaker 2: Complex moment where, you know, the first time we got, in advance, like I was that guy, like going around like, you know, what the hell? You know, like that sort of thing and be out. But I've always had a soft spot for anyone, a street musician or a busker or I was your perfect demographic for that.

00:35:31
Speaker 3: You know who I was fascinated with? What? Who's the dude that used to be on Soul Train? Louis.

00:35:38
Speaker 1: Louis Carr. He was the greatest.

00:35:40
Speaker 3: Listen, he was the greatest dude in the world to me. He was the coolest dude. Listen, he'd do a dance move, right? He'd be like this and he'd just dance. And just come back. And he always was sharp. He always had that gear on.

00:35:52
Speaker 1: Greatest moment of my life.

00:35:53
Speaker 3: Go ahead.

00:35:54
Speaker 1: Okay, like this is now the second greatest moment of my life.

00:36:00
Speaker 2: No, the greatest moment of my life was a moment Tariq and I just had last week.

00:36:05
Speaker 1: Before I texted you about the book.

00:36:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

00:36:08
Speaker 2: You don't even know that what you really did was you helped heal.

00:36:15
Speaker 1: Tariq and I had a healing moment.

00:36:16
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:36:17
Speaker 1: After I read you, you said something, but that's a whole nother episode.

00:36:20
Speaker 2: But I will say, and that turned that moment and that show into the greatest show that I've ever did. But the second greatest one Was in 2006, we had finally made what was then known.

00:36:33
Speaker 1: As the Universal Amphitheater.

00:36:34
Speaker 2: It was like the last days of that particular destination point as a concert. So, like, we kind of feel like we made it. Not exactly the form or Staples Center, but, like, worthy. I had invited him because Dice's mentor, Kilo.

00:36:52
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

00:36:53
Speaker 1: Kilo, before he really.

00:36:57
Speaker 2: Started getting deep into the Roots world, like he did clones and all that stuff.

00:37:00
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:37:02
Speaker 2: His claim to fame was that Bel Bedeveau had liked his beat tape and picked him to work with him in Los Angeles. So he's like in Camp Bel Bedeveau inside their mansion and all that stuff. And like, because they've been on Soul Train so many times.

00:37:18
Speaker 1: Legends. Louis Carr- was always with him. Louis Carr was just like before YouTube.

00:37:24
Speaker 3: Before- He was that guy.

00:37:25
Speaker 2: Every week, if you wanted your fix of how you think Michael Jackson would dance, and literally, he wouldn't dance.

00:37:31
Speaker 3: He would just- He'd be cool.

00:37:33
Speaker 2: He is the seed that basically planted Diddy. Like someone that sells charisma.

00:37:42
Speaker 3: He also gave me the version of, A younger Billy Dee Williams mixed with a dude that got happy feet. Because he had happy feet.

00:37:49
Speaker 1: You know how to do it. Yeah, but he exuded confidence.

00:37:51
Speaker 3: He was that guy.

00:37:52
Speaker 1: And there's a reason why we were drawn to that. Every episode.

00:37:54
Speaker 2: Because we never got to see... It seems silly. Like, just Google Louis Carr Soul Train.

00:38:01
Speaker 1: I need that name.

00:38:02
Speaker 3: Shit, I need that name.

00:38:04
Speaker 1: But, yeah, Louis Carr. And his name is Ski.

00:38:07
Speaker 3: Lou Ski.

00:38:08
Speaker 1: Lou Ski Carr. C-A-R-R. Lou Ski Carl.

00:38:13
Speaker 2: And... There's just a period between 1981 and like 1990 that he was just our weekly fix on Soul Train.

00:38:23
Speaker 3: I got to check him out.

00:38:24
Speaker 2: For just how to be the man, like how to pose and mean it.

00:38:27
Speaker 3: Yes.

00:38:28
Speaker 2: You don't understand Soul Train is, you know, like people will be like, yo, when I come up, I'm going on Soul Train.

00:38:38
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no.

00:38:38
Speaker 2: I'm talking about just regular like, yo, I'm going to get this mansion.

00:38:41
Speaker 1: Yo, I'm going to get this car. I'm going to get this girl.

00:38:45
Speaker 2: If you were to ask me in 1996, 97, like what is it that you want most on this earth? Without no doubt, my idea of heaven is like if I can own.

00:39:00
Speaker 1: All 1,137 episodes of Soul Train.

00:39:05
Speaker 3: Anybody got that, you're a legend if you got that.

00:39:08
Speaker 2: The way that I would dream, like I will, every memory of my life, the reason why Soul Train, I was raised in a, you're not allowed to watch television, read a book, listen to a record.

00:39:20
Speaker 1: I was raised by those parents.

00:39:22
Speaker 2: If it was music education, they would allow me to watch it. And here's the thing, though, which you might don't know. Now, when you talk about Soul Train, Soul Train is normally a 12 in the afternoon activity. Clean the house. Soul Train is on. Now, there's a period between 1975 and 1982 where the powers that be at Channel 48 then turn to channel 29, then turn to channel 57, and then 17, and then back to 57. Where syndicate, local syndicated. Like you just had to be there, kids. Ask your parents about local syndicated.

00:39:56
Speaker 1: Local cable, yeah, local. Right.

00:39:59
Speaker 2: And it will really just depend on the cultural sensitivity at whoever is running that station. And if they decide, Soul Train, put that on at 1 a.m. on Saturday, from 1975- to 1982, my parents and I had an agreement. By 8.30, I better be in bed. Shower, bed, 8.30. However, when the second song comes on Saturday Night Live at around 12.40, we'll wake you up. And then by one in the morning in West Philly in a dark ass house under a crocheted blanket, peeking through the eyes, I'm allowed to watch a gray dancing train yell at me from outer space.

00:40:53
Speaker 1: I'm five.

00:40:54
Speaker 2: So it's a little scary hearing Joe Cobb saying, like, it's, it's, it's scary, but it's also like, we like being scared. That burst of adrenaline, I just fed off.

00:41:04
Speaker 1: Of week after week after week after week after week.

00:41:07
Speaker 2: So the way that I would just dream of, like, And my level, okay, oh God, I'm having my Thundercat moment with anime when I describe like what it means to me. And so that's my North Star. And I think I got music education to start a group with my best friend in high school so that I can maybe get famous, so I can figure out a way how to get to Soul Train episodes.

00:41:36
Speaker 1: Like that's my level of Soul Trains.

00:41:38
Speaker 2: I know all the light combinations of this particular thing, like the way that, you know, like dunk combinations with Nike, like that's my synesthesia, my everything. And so, yeah, like Soul Train is my North Star. So one night in 2006 at the amphitheater, at the end, Lewski came out from nowhere, from the wings doing.

00:41:59
Speaker 1: His like, his dancing shit. Legend. I just, I lost it like I was seeing Michael Jackson.

00:42:07
Speaker 3: If you only could watch one episode.

00:42:08
Speaker 1: Motherfucker, yo.

00:42:09
Speaker 3: I got to. I'm asking, like, you got to pick one episode.

00:42:15
Speaker 1: Come on. There's two greatest episodes of all time.

00:42:19
Speaker 3: There's two. That's cheap.

00:42:21
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is what people don't know.

00:42:23
Speaker 2: Most people will acknowledge, based on the movie, that the tipping point of Michael Jackson's career is the night of Motown 25 in 1983, where he unleashes the moonwalk and thus enables Thriller to start selling a million a week for like 28 weeks.

00:42:38
Speaker 1: In a row.

00:42:38
Speaker 2: That's the viral moment that all of America was watching that caused Thriller to get Michael Jackson to that point. However, 10 years before that in 1973 is where he kind of had a moment, like you've seen magazines where they do the whole thing like stars are just like us. Before the gift of the Jackson 5 really was the fact that they looked You know how Jill Scott looks like her audience and that's why they gravitate towards? The Jackson 5 were primed to look like their audience, what America's kids were looking like. And the moment Michael unleashes the robot in 1973 on Dancing Machine, which had been displayed on the show since 1971, but it's the first time that a star celebrity didn't have to do the four tops dance or the temptation stuff. It's like, oh, you dance like I do. And that was the first connection of Michael Jackson. Like, oh, not only does he sing with his brothers, but when he moves, that's even more important. And like, that's the moment that Michael Jackson, where like the power of dance and I might be a better dancer than you are. And when you got to watch him dance like that episode. He had a Motown 25 moment 10 years before Motown 25. On the real, what sustained the Jackson 5 was just that period of Dancing Machine, being on the Carol Burnett Show, American Bandstand, all these shows in the 70s, and him doing the robot. You know him for like five seconds that he's doing something that you can never do in your lifetime.

00:44:17
Speaker 1: No, you can't.

00:44:19
Speaker 2: And the reason why it was magnetic is because we didn't have VCRs or tapes back then. So you, when the Jacksons were on between their inception and say maybe 1983 Dormotown 25.

00:44:31
Speaker 1: When you seen it, you studied it and that was it.

00:44:35
Speaker 2: And that's why the Ushers or the Ciscos, like there was a period where like, because they're the generation of the remote control, they were allowed to watch that At five and keep rewinding and studying the precision of it. So it's like the timing of Michael Jackson to me is even more fascinating than that.

00:44:57
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.

00:44:58
Speaker 2: You brought me down a rabbit hole that I.

00:45:04
Speaker 1: Did not expect. Well, thanks, man. No problem. I appreciate it.

00:45:10
Speaker 3: Wowo267.

00:45:11
Speaker 1: Wait, did I even introduce him at the top of the show or did we go right into it?

00:45:15
Speaker 3: You didn't need to.

00:45:15
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, brother.

00:45:16
Speaker 3: It don't even matter. Go out there and get the book.

00:45:20
Speaker 1: Yes, please.

00:45:20
Speaker 3: I signed your copy. Yes, I.

00:45:24
Speaker 3: Go get it. I needed this.

00:45:26
Speaker 1: Thank you.

00:45:26
Speaker 3: I appreciate you, man.

00:45:27
Speaker 1: And I receive it. Thank you, y'all.

00:45:28
Speaker 3: Yes.

00:45:29
Speaker 1: We'll see you on the next go-round. If there's a next go-round, a Questlove show.

00:45:38
Speaker 2: The Questlove Show is hosted by me, Amir Questlove-Thompson. The executive producers are Sean G., Brian Calhoun, and me.

00:45:48
Speaker 1: Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Payne. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown. Edited by Alex Conroy.

00:45:59
Speaker 2: iHeart video support by Mark Canton. Logos, graphics, and animation by Nick Maloney. Additional support by Lance Coleman. Special thanks to Kathy Braun. Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, rate, review, and share the Questlove show wherever you stream your podcasts.

00:46:22
Speaker 1: Make sure you follow us on socials. That's at QLS.

00:46:29
Speaker 2: Check out hundreds and hundreds of QLS episodes, including the Questlove Supreme shows in our podcast archives. Questlove Show is a production of iHeartRadio.