Special Episode: Why Podcasting Is Becoming a Powerful Career Tool

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Marc Ronick: Today we're

bringing you another special

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presentation of Empowered

Podcasting Live, the weekly live

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stream I host with Jason Circone

and Rich Perry.

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This week we're joined by Annika
Jackson, host
of Your Brand

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Amplified, a marketing and
communications
strategist,

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professor at USC Annenberg and
one of our
featured speakers

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at the Empowered Podcasting
Conference.


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In this conversation, Annika
shares how podcasters can turn


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their shows into true revenue
engines by thinking beyond


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downloads, sponsorships, and
traditional advertising.

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We
explore how your podcast
can create new business


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opportunities, support a larger
brand ecosystem, and generate


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revenue without simply adding
more ads.

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And now, here's our

conversation with Annika Jackson

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on Empowered Podcasting Live.
Jason: Welcome back to Empowered

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Podcasting Live.
We are back with you once again,

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as we do
every Wednesday at
1o'clock p.m.

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Eastern Time, to give you a

behind-the-scenes look at the

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upcoming Empowered Podcasting

Conference and to dive a little

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deeper with some of our sponsors

that are helping make this

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event possible, and of course,
take a
look at what's

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happening in the world of
podcasting.

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I am one of
your hosts, Jason
Circon.

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I am running the ship today, and
this
is my first time ever

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manning the cockpit for a live
stream
via Riverside.

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So, if this gets screwed up, we
blame Marc
because he decided

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to take a road trip and can't
man the
controls.

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But I will throw it to Marc to
say hello.

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He's on the
road to Maryland
with his lovely wife Amy.

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What's going on, Marc?
Marc Ronick: Yes, and what I


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told our guest Annika is, I
promise I am not driving.

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I am
in the passenger seat.
There's some proof right there.

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The wife
is there, and the dog
Harley is there too.

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So, and he'll, and
both of
them will be at Empowered

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Podcasting in August.
Jason: Yes, it would not be an


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Empowered Podcasting without
Harley there Marc Ronick: and

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Amy too, and
Amy too.
Harley, more importantly, yes,

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Jason: the unofficial mascot of
empowered podcast.

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Marc Ronick: That's right,
Jason: and of course, joining us

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as always, Rich.
Did you just turn 21?

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I was going to say the

birthday boy was it your 21st

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birthday?
Did you go out and
have a few

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drinks for your for?
Rich: Yeah, you know, you know,

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had had a you know something
good, something good. 21st


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birthday, you know.
Good, good job.

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Living it up.
Jason: Good to hear it.

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Rich is
with us once again,
and this week we are joined by

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the one
and only Annika
Jackson.

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How are you, Annika?
Annika Jackson: Hello, I'm good.

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Looking forward to seeing

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everybody in person in just a

couple weeks.

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Jason: How about that?
It's a
couple weeks away.

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Like we're almost into August,
and the
countdown officially

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begins, man.
Well, we're getting pumped
up

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for empowered podcasting.
If our excitement doesn't come


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through the microphone every
week when we join you here live,

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believe me, it is there.
And we'd like to take a few

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moments
before we talk to
Annika to thank some of our

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sponsors that
are helping make
empowered podcasting conference

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possible.

So, Rich, take it away, my

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friend.
All right, here we go.


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So, big shout out to the content
creators accountant, our title


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sponsor this year.
Also, Bourbon Barrel Podcasting,

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Maker's
Machine, MoPod will be
sponsoring the pre-party


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Thursday night, so make sure you
get there early.

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A big shout out
to one of our
track sponsors, the Podcast

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Professionals
Association.
Rich: AI assisted author is


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sponsoring the journals.
Pod to Book AI is going to be a

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track
sponsor and sponsoring
the author meet and greet.

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My
apologies, but we
appreciate y'all.

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Jason: So many great businesses
coming to help us support the

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conference this year.
It's hard
to keep them

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straight sometimes.
That's a good problem to have.


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Always great, and we're looking
forward to having everybody in


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the house.
Marc Ronick: After last year,


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it's a great problem to have.
Last year was a lot more


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challenging. 100% We have so
many companies and organizations

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supporting what we're doing,
and we're so grateful for it,

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Jason: 100% Annika, welcome to

the show.

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Let's talk a little bit about
you.

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Obviously, you're
going to
bring be bringing some great

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value to the stage at

Empowered Podcasting or at the

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conference here in a couple

weeks.

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We'll talk about that, but
you've got a lot going on
with

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your brand Amplify too.
So tell us about some of the


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exciting and fun developments
happening within your podcast


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and within your company.
Annika Jackson: Wow!

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And it's
you know what's funny
is it's so much easier to

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interview people
than it is to
toot your own horn with your

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brand amplified.
I
have been coaching some

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entrepreneurs who are wanting to

start a podcast or had a

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podcast experience they weren't
quite
happy with, so just

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walking them through the system,
and it's the
same thing I do

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at USC with my podcasting for
brand building
class, where I

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walk students and they have a
podcast by the end
of our

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session, our semester.
So I have that going on, and

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that's
been really fun.
Your brand amplified the

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podcast, of
course, and then I
just started a new podcast

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called Practical
Pedagogy: The
Art of Teaching for the Future

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of Work, and
that's something
I'm really excited about because

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that's
where I get to get
really wonky and really go for.

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I'm like, am
I alone in this
room?

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And where I get to really get
wonky about
you know what does

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it mean for the future of work
with AI?

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So
that's my newest podcast
launched earlier this month, and

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it's going.
It's either my future PhD topic,

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or it is the
podcast is just
going to be my PhD because every

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single guest
is bringing
something very unique, and

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that's what I love
about
podcasting.

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We can do the ones that grow,
that then start,
you know,

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giving us a name or making money
or being something
people want

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to listen to, and then I feel
like that also gives
us the

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flexibility and freedom to start
ones.

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Like I love your
brand
Amplified, but I also love all

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these other topics, so it
kind
of gives me the freedom to start

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this next one and get to

experience that joy of starting

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a new podcast all over again.
Jason: That's pretty cool.

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I'd
like to dive into that a
little bit more, but before we

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do, I
want to ask you.
This is something that it's been

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on my
mind, especially with
what you're doing at USC and

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bringing
podcasting to a
college campus and giving people

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the tools, or
giving college
students the tools at an earlier

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stage, I've
been wondering
about podcasting and the way

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that it's developing
and
evolving.

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Could it be a new resume, or
could it replace a
resume

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someday?
Because I feel like if I'm going

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to go for the
job of my
dreams, and I spend years

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building content around
that
prior to applying for those

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jobs, I'm going to get taken

much more seriously if I have

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that asset in place versus just
a piece of paper that talks

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about the things that I have

accomplished in the past, but

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maybe won't play a role.
What
are your thoughts on

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that?
Annika Jackson: I love the way


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that you're thinking, Jason, and
100.

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This is something that

students are putting on a

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resume.
I've taught the class
for two

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semesters.
Now it's gone from being a

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special topic to
having its
own code number at USC, and it's

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a regular class
offering.
And every time I've seen more

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and more students
stick with a
podcast, and some of them are

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certainly using it
as a resume
builder.

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Then they can go when they're
doing
interviews; they can say

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they have these skills.
But I'm also
teaching it from

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the perspective of being a brand
builder.

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It's
not all about you know
because we do have great people

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on staff
and faculty who will
teach more about the fine

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details of
production, right?
Of being a story producer, and

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mine is
really about how do
you start a podcast, how do you

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create a
business plan around
it, and how do you learn how to

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do a little
bit of everything
in the process, so then you can

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figure
out what you're best at
and what you're not really

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interested in
doing.
So my students are editing their

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podcasts.
I don't
edit.

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I've never edited my podcast
because my life partner
is a

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film editor.
So it's been really nice to you

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know not have
to go through
the hard part myself for that.

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But the
students have a really
strong foundation.

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And to your point,
this
weekend I was at a

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one-year-old's birthday party.

Everybody who was at this

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birthday party was in the film

industry.

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So the question you get is, so
are you also in TV?


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And these are people who have
been executives at Lifetime, at

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Netflix, at major companies.
She's been reality TV on many of

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the biggest shows that we have
heard of or know of for the past

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18 years, she was let go from
her executive position.

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So now
she's running a social
media content, but she was

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saying she
misses interviewing
people, and so now she's looking

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at getting
into podcasting.
And she looks at all of this

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reality TV
content as content,
not as just TV shows that we all

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watch.
So
when we look at it from a

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content driven perspective, 100%

this is a resume builder

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starting a podcast, knowing how
to do that world.

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We see every.
I mean, we have to acknowledge,

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right?
Netflix has its own podcast arm

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now.
Every TV show
has a podcast

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now.
There are many, many, many more

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fan
podcasts about TV shows.
People want content, and they

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wanted
about everything, and
it's the fastest way for people

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to digest
content these days.
So, when it comes to journalism,

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communications, building a
brand of any kind, this is not

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only
it's a resume builder; it
is the resume for these students

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coming
out, and it's something
that we all need to be thinking

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of in a
bigger, bigger way.
Rich: Annika, my question is:


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You said that the podcasting
course recently got its own code

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number, so shoutouts to you.
The kids are getting some

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credits,
whether it's one
credit or three credits.

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Hopefully, three
credit.
Ooh, four credits.

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Annika Jackson: We're already

putting four credits, but now

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it's gone from 599 special

topics to 531.

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So it has its own place in the
catalog, no longer
in a place

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with other court.
You know, there's usually like


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several special topics.
Rich: So my question is, love


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it.
How much buy-in did you have to

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get from the school from USC,

or was that something that they

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kind of like approached you and
just asked you to write the

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curriculum?
Like I'm curious to
know

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because I know that I've pitched
courses in my local
area, and

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like you really need to put a
lot of work into it.


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And sometimes the school may not
have the resources to make it


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happen as a curriculum-based
course or as a credit-based


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course.
So tell us a little, like even

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just a little bit
about that.
Like, what kind of buy-in you

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have to get from
them?
I'd love to hear that a little

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bit about that.
Annika Jackson: 100% And there's

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so many answers to that
question.

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One thing is having a
podcast
is part of what got me into

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becoming a professor.
So
I'm part-time faculty.

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I started out as adjunct.
Now I teach 12
credits a

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semester during the regular
school year, and then I
teach

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whatever is available in the
summer.

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But I started out on
the
journalism and PR side, and so I

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started teaching a class

called PR for Brand Building

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because I had a PR firm at the

time, and I also had a podcast.

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And part of the interview

process was, oh, you have a

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podcast, and you can use it as a

teaching tool in your class.

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So it was already because USC
is, I
think, the number one

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communication school in the

United States.

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00:11:12,632 --> 00:11:15,392
Maybe number two, you know,
somewhere in that one
to two

219
00:11:15,392 --> 00:11:17,389
range.
So they already had a lot of

220
00:11:17,389 --> 00:11:20,071
courses, like a lot
of the
journalism classes don't end

221
00:11:20,071 --> 00:11:23,815
with you creating a radio
show
or a broadcast, it is now you're

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00:11:23,815 --> 00:11:26,405
creating a podcast at the
end
of your at the end of the

223
00:11:26,405 --> 00:11:28,886
course.
So there's already a
small

224
00:11:28,886 --> 00:11:31,763
inclination towards this.
That was what literally got me


225
00:11:31,771 --> 00:11:33,440
into the program to start
teaching.

226
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,905
Then the digital side,
the
comm side, took me and said,

227
00:11:36,905 --> 00:11:40,190
"Oh, but this is a digital

medium, so let's have you teach

228
00:11:40,190 --> 00:11:42,350
these classes.
So that's number
one.

229
00:11:42,350 --> 00:11:45,778
Number two is I'd already
created a course for


230
00:11:45,786 --> 00:11:48,662
entrepreneurs.
I just I'm not like super

231
00:11:48,662 --> 00:11:52,949
salesy, so I don't
like you
know selling things like going

232
00:11:52,949 --> 00:11:55,628
you know beating
people over
the head and doing all the lead

233
00:11:55,628 --> 00:11:57,270
gen stuff.
So I've
been sitting on a

234
00:11:57,270 --> 00:12:01,050
course that I'd created, and my
mentor who
also helped me get

235
00:12:01,050 --> 00:12:04,124
into USC is one of my program
directors, and
he's like,

236
00:12:04,124 --> 00:12:06,055
"Hey, we're looking for a few
more electives.

237
00:12:06,055 --> 00:12:08,930
What
do you have?
So I gave him three or four or

238
00:12:08,930 --> 00:12:11,324
five suggestions, and
he said,
"Let's let's develop the

239
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podcasting one.
I already
had the curriculum

240
00:12:13,271 --> 00:12:17,155
built; I just had to switch it
up to fit, you
know, college

241
00:12:17,155 --> 00:12:20,045
curriculum, and then tweak it a
little bit every
semester.

242
00:12:20,045 --> 00:12:22,620
So then he said, "Yeah, okay,
flesh this out some
more.

243
00:12:22,620 --> 00:12:25,409
I fleshed out some more.
It got accepted, and then the


244
00:12:25,417 --> 00:12:29,216
next semester I was teaching off
and running, and it's a slow


245
00:12:29,224 --> 00:12:32,168
burn because students don't want
to necessarily pay a lot of


246
00:12:32,176 --> 00:12:34,194
money to take a class that's a
new class.

247
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So I had a few
students, and
then I had a pretty like think a

248
00:12:38,540 --> 00:12:41,310
full,
completely full class,
or maybe one or two students off

249
00:12:41,310 --> 00:12:44,645
from a
full class this last
term, and then I think I have

250
00:12:44,645 --> 00:12:47,139
six spots
left for this
upcoming term.

251
00:12:47,139 --> 00:12:50,735
So it took a little while, but
I'd
also been at every adjunct

252
00:12:50,735 --> 00:12:53,618
get together, trying to get in
front
of the right people to

253
00:12:53,618 --> 00:12:56,525
say, "Hey, I know we have a few
podcasting classes, but we

254
00:12:56,525 --> 00:12:58,808
really need to have more.
We
need to have a conference.

255
00:12:58,808 --> 00:12:59,917
We need to do a whole bunch of

things.

256
00:12:59,917 --> 00:13:02,234
And I know that's something we
wanted to talk
about too,

257
00:13:02,234 --> 00:13:06,417
because y'all are helping me put
on the first USC
podcast

258
00:13:06,417 --> 00:13:10,510
conference in March of 2027.
So thank you, super
excited

259
00:13:10,510 --> 00:13:13,454
about that.
But it's been my way to kind of

260
00:13:13,454 --> 00:13:16,535
worm the
world of podcasting
into the campus in a bigger way.

261
00:13:16,535 --> 00:13:20,050
My
ultimate goal is to have a
bigger podcast division, so it's

262
00:13:20,050 --> 00:13:23,675

not just a few classes here
and there, and to your point,

263
00:13:23,675 --> 00:13:27,530
yes,
100% I mean, they were
looking for new classes.

264
00:13:27,530 --> 00:13:32,171
Podcasting is
something that
they see as important, and we

265
00:13:32,171 --> 00:13:33,956
have a really
beautiful
podcast.

266
00:13:33,956 --> 00:13:37,715
We have actually three different
studios
just in Annenberg in

267
00:13:37,715 --> 00:13:40,997
our media center, not including,
and we
have multiple other

268
00:13:40,997 --> 00:13:45,529
ones in the business, you know,
in every
other college on the

269
00:13:45,529 --> 00:13:47,513
campus.
So people are definitely seeing

270
00:13:47,513 --> 00:13:49,215
that.
Haven't gotten the full buy-in

271
00:13:49,215 --> 00:13:52,075
for all the other things
that
I sneakily want to do, but this

272
00:13:52,075 --> 00:13:54,667
is the first step: is
getting
the course, making sure people

273
00:13:54,667 --> 00:13:57,760
right that they're giving
it
good ratings and reviews, that

274
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,020
they're continuing with
their
podcasts after they finish the

275
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class because I think that's

one of the biggest indicators of

276
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,170
success.
And don't stop trying,
Rich.

277
00:14:06,170 --> 00:14:07,698
Marc Ronick: Yeah, no, I know,

Rich.

278
00:14:07,698 --> 00:14:10,745
You've done some classes, right?
You've definitely taught
some

279
00:14:10,745 --> 00:14:13,046
classes.
Rich: Yeah, I do teach an


280
00:14:13,054 --> 00:14:16,602
enrichment class, so it's a
non-credit class with Johns


281
00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:20,240
Hopkins University's Odyssey
program, and that's a LinkedIn


282
00:14:20,248 --> 00:14:22,523
course.
But yeah, I've definitely been

283
00:14:22,523 --> 00:14:26,425
interested in
doing a a credit
base, so I might pick your brain

284
00:14:26,425 --> 00:14:28,255
at EPC.
Annika Jackson: Definitely, Marc

285
00:14:28,255 --> 00:14:30,335
Ronick: I had one follow up

question, Annika.

286
00:14:30,335 --> 00:14:33,515
I was really curious about the
one year old
birthday party

287
00:14:33,515 --> 00:14:37,754
and the fact that there are all
these TV people
there, and I'm

288
00:14:37,754 --> 00:14:40,112
curious if the conversation came
up.

289
00:14:40,112 --> 00:14:45,005
What, how
are these industry
people in the big media spaces

290
00:14:45,005 --> 00:14:47,180
reacting to
podcasting these
days?

291
00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:51,726
Are they excited about it?
Do does it
seem like it's a

292
00:14:51,726 --> 00:14:54,844
nuisance to them?
It used to be the big
media

293
00:14:54,844 --> 00:14:56,854
people would kind of laugh at
podcasting.

294
00:14:56,854 --> 00:14:59,324
They got nice and
pat us on
the head, right?

295
00:14:59,324 --> 00:15:01,325
But I.
Obviously, it's expanding so


296
00:15:01,333 --> 00:15:04,090
much, and I'm just curious.
Like, what are their reactions


297
00:15:04,098 --> 00:15:06,440
when you say you're in the
podcasting space?

298
00:15:07,085 --> 00:15:09,395
Annika Jackson: Well, funnily

enough, I mean, I didn't have

299
00:15:09,395 --> 00:15:12,335
that much of the conversation

because I knew probably half the

300
00:15:12,335 --> 00:15:15,443
people who were there, and they
already knew I was the

301
00:15:15,443 --> 00:15:18,659
professor and podcasters.
We probably had
some of those

302
00:15:18,659 --> 00:15:19,961
conversations.
Jason: Sure, Annika Jackson: I

303
00:15:19,961 --> 00:15:22,424
love that
you're pointing this
out though, because I remember

304
00:15:22,424 --> 00:15:26,751
that, gosh,
even a year, two
years ago, it was the trope of

305
00:15:26,751 --> 00:15:29,976
like you go
somewhere, I'm a
podcaster, just like in LA, you

306
00:15:29,976 --> 00:15:32,204
meet somebody,
oh, I'm an
actor, right?

307
00:15:32,204 --> 00:15:34,590
So it was kind of one of those
things,
like oh, now

308
00:15:34,590 --> 00:15:37,282
everybody's a podcaster, and
even on TV shows,
we'd see

309
00:15:37,282 --> 00:15:40,271
somebody, and now you can't see
a reality show
probably

310
00:15:40,271 --> 00:15:42,926
without somebody being a
podcaster on it, and then of


311
00:15:42,934 --> 00:15:44,693
course it having its own podcast
after.

312
00:15:44,693 --> 00:15:48,294
So I think it is just
seen as
part of the standard now.

313
00:15:48,294 --> 00:15:51,626
It's not seen as something

that to be put aside.

314
00:15:51,626 --> 00:15:54,473
I think it started the
groundswell got big
enough

315
00:15:54,473 --> 00:15:58,265
that it has to be taken very
seriously, which is why to


316
00:15:58,273 --> 00:16:02,135
that point, somebody who'd been
in TV for 18 years, whose


317
00:16:02,143 --> 00:16:06,515
husband is a writer and producer
and director, still right on


318
00:16:06,523 --> 00:16:10,680
many many shows, is saying I
miss interviewing people on


319
00:16:10,688 --> 00:16:13,727
these reality shows, so I'm
thinking about starting a


320
00:16:13,735 --> 00:16:16,080
podcast.
So it is being seen as something

321
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,380
really viable.
Marc Ronick: Very cool.

322
00:16:18,380 --> 00:16:21,454
Jason: I think you combine that
with the fact that you've got

323
00:16:21,454 --> 00:16:25,204
so many established celebrities
that are they're looking more

324
00:16:25,204 --> 00:16:29,666
at that long form conversation,
and
I remember I haven't heard

325
00:16:29,666 --> 00:16:33,137
a lot of talks about people
saying
podcasting is dead

326
00:16:33,137 --> 00:16:35,846
lately because they oh it's
being
replaced by short form

327
00:16:35,846 --> 00:16:37,478
content.
Like God, God, I'm glad that


328
00:16:37,486 --> 00:16:39,455
conversation for the most part
has died.

329
00:16:39,455 --> 00:16:42,059
Rich: Yeah, Jason: but I think
the celebrity
model proves it,

330
00:16:42,059 --> 00:16:44,975
and to have that interaction
where they can
connect with

331
00:16:44,975 --> 00:16:48,341
people, get more in depth with
the storytelling, not
have to

332
00:16:48,341 --> 00:16:51,467
be cut off or limited to just a
few questions.

333
00:16:51,467 --> 00:16:55,037
It goes
way beyond what
they're doing in their in movies

334
00:16:55,037 --> 00:16:58,319
or television
shows, but digs
deeper into the stories that

335
00:16:58,319 --> 00:17:00,455
actually got them
there.
It's pretty cool stuff.

336
00:17:00,740 --> 00:17:03,080
Annika Jackson: Yeah, and it's

continuing that parasocial

337
00:17:03,140 --> 00:17:06,017
relationship, right?
That they
have with their

338
00:17:06,017 --> 00:17:08,222
fans.
So fans are getting to know

339
00:17:08,222 --> 00:17:10,849
people on a
different level
beyond just a character and

340
00:17:10,849 --> 00:17:13,609
being interviewed
about that
character on a show.

341
00:17:13,609 --> 00:17:17,060
They can now get more in depth

about who they are as a person,

342
00:17:17,060 --> 00:17:19,670
and so it's actually creating a
tighter bond with their fans.

343
00:17:19,670 --> 00:17:22,880
Now, of course, we know the

celebrity podcasters; they

344
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,845
already have a built-in

audience, so they're able to

345
00:17:24,845 --> 00:17:27,682
translate that audience to their

show, so they have an

346
00:17:27,682 --> 00:17:29,253
immediate advantage over the
rest of us.


347
00:17:29,261 --> 00:17:33,330
But the nice thing is, I think a
lot of people like to hear from

348
00:17:33,330 --> 00:17:36,317
everyday people as well, and
like to hear that our stories.

349
00:17:36,317 --> 00:17:40,200
I
mean, I'm a big fan of
threads right now, and I love

350
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,085
just
seeing peeks into other
people's lives.

351
00:17:43,085 --> 00:17:45,485
Right, it's really

entertaining, and I think that's

352
00:17:45,485 --> 00:17:48,950
what podcasting continue in its
purest form continues to bring

353
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:52,225
to people.
Marc Ronick: Are you a fan of


354
00:17:52,233 --> 00:17:56,516
threads for personal reasons, or
do you see it having potential


355
00:17:56,524 --> 00:17:59,780
to help podcasters promote their
podcast?

356
00:17:59,780 --> 00:18:02,000
Annika Jackson: To be perfectly,

I feel like it's like the old

357
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,960
days of social media where you

can just like see random people.

358
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,558
I don't use it for.
I mean, I
have of course my

359
00:18:08,558 --> 00:18:13,203
podcast link in my you know bio
profile,
whatever, but I don't

360
00:18:13,203 --> 00:18:17,531
have it attached to any of my
Instagram
accounts except for

361
00:18:17,531 --> 00:18:19,793
my personal one.
So I'm not posting.

362
00:18:19,793 --> 00:18:23,120
I'm not
cross posting content
from Facebook or from Insta or


363
00:18:23,128 --> 00:18:25,825
anything else.
I really just want it to be kind

364
00:18:25,825 --> 00:18:28,868
of back to
the basics.
I see a couple people in the

365
00:18:28,868 --> 00:18:31,910
podcasting world,
not people I
know personally, who are trying

366
00:18:31,910 --> 00:18:35,438
to use it to sell
to clients,
and it just comes across as

367
00:18:35,438 --> 00:18:38,505
disingenuous to me.

And that that's one of the Marc

368
00:18:38,505 --> 00:18:40,622
Ronick: I totally I totally

agree with you.

369
00:18:40,622 --> 00:18:43,200
That particular platform does
feel a little old
school, and

370
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,676
Jason, I think I saw you post
something recently
saying that

371
00:18:46,676 --> 00:18:51,122
you know it really is just that
it's just putting
out

372
00:18:51,122 --> 00:18:54,218
questions, talking with people,
having random
conversations,

373
00:18:54,218 --> 00:18:58,379
and anything you put out that's
promotional, it's
just

374
00:18:58,379 --> 00:19:00,605
ghosted.
Nobody looks at it.

375
00:19:00,605 --> 00:19:03,360
It's really interesting, Jason:
and I think that's


376
00:19:03,368 --> 00:19:05,430
algorithmic.
I really think that Threads is

377
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:08,721
designed for the
conversations
for, and that's where the post

378
00:19:08,721 --> 00:19:10,980
you're referring
to is
something I posted yesterday.

379
00:19:10,980 --> 00:19:16,149
That it's an
promotion model
of sell yourself first, showcase

380
00:19:16,149 --> 00:19:20,594
the value that
you have as a
content creator, as a podcaster,

381
00:19:20,594 --> 00:19:23,738
as a human
being, and the more
you start interacting with

382
00:19:23,738 --> 00:19:26,670
people, the
more they're going
to want more value from you, and

383
00:19:26,670 --> 00:19:28,602
then that's
where they go and
find your podcast.

384
00:19:28,602 --> 00:19:33,046
Because I've up until
probably
the last few weeks, I would try

385
00:19:33,046 --> 00:19:36,674
posting the blog that
I do for
each podcast episode, or maybe a

386
00:19:36,674 --> 00:19:39,530
clip here and there.

Crickets, nothing happened, and

387
00:19:39,530 --> 00:19:44,140
again, I just I think Threads is

just not putting that in front

388
00:19:44,170 --> 00:19:46,040
of people because it's not what
the platform is for.

389
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,160
But I will say, Annika, you said
it
perfectly.

390
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,973
It reminds me of the old days of
Twitter, which I
think is why

391
00:19:51,973 --> 00:19:54,755
I'm having more fun on that
platform and trying to
lean

392
00:19:54,755 --> 00:19:57,064
into it more.
Because back in the day, that

393
00:19:57,064 --> 00:19:59,405
was my jam.
I
loved early Twitter Annika

394
00:19:59,405 --> 00:20:02,945
Jackson: back in the day.
Jason: Back in the day, oh yeah,

395
00:20:02,945 --> 00:20:05,088

yeah.
Back when the sagebrush was

396
00:20:05,088 --> 00:20:08,030
rolling around, and it was

just a different time and a

397
00:20:08,030 --> 00:20:09,850
world that the kids will never

understand.

398
00:20:09,850 --> 00:20:13,075
But I loved it, and I feel
threads is capturing a
little

399
00:20:13,075 --> 00:20:15,653
bit of that vibe.
And the conversations are great.

400
00:20:15,653 --> 00:20:18,796
If you
have, if you connect
with people the right way,

401
00:20:18,796 --> 00:20:21,092
they're going to
reciprocate.
And if you're not throwing your

402
00:20:21,092 --> 00:20:23,570
business in their
face, it's
just an added bonus.

403
00:20:24,170 --> 00:20:26,960
Annika Jackson: And to your

point, it is a place where I got

404
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,088
some really great opportunities.



405
00:20:28,096 --> 00:20:32,657
I was able to get a client on a
radio show in the UK with a


406
00:20:32,665 --> 00:20:34,799
single that she wrote.
She was 15.

407
00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:37,382
She went viral.
She was
completely unknown

408
00:20:37,382 --> 00:20:40,254
artist, but they had a greeting
from her,
and they used her as

409
00:20:40,254 --> 00:20:42,640
the first song for I think their
New
Year's countdown.

410
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,295
One of my team members, when I
had my PR firm,
was on Twitter

411
00:20:46,295 --> 00:20:49,394
and saw somebody posting.
It was during Asian
hate,

412
00:20:49,394 --> 00:20:52,070
right?
So during COVID era, and so she

413
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:55,062
saw that a
pretty live, a
pretty large company, Live

414
00:20:55,062 --> 00:20:58,046
Nation
Ticketmaster, was
looking for panelists for an

415
00:20:58,046 --> 00:21:03,044
AAPI panel, and
I was able to
be panelists and speak to people

416
00:21:03,044 --> 00:21:06,410
from within the
company from
all over the world about you

417
00:21:06,410 --> 00:21:08,570
know my experiences or

experience that I saw other

418
00:21:08,570 --> 00:21:11,018
Asian people have.
So there were
really good

419
00:21:11,018 --> 00:21:13,412
opportunities like that did come
up, and yeah,
somebody put

420
00:21:13,412 --> 00:21:15,290
them out there, and I do see
some of that.

421
00:21:15,290 --> 00:21:17,180
And those
are things that are
not like overly promotional.

422
00:21:17,180 --> 00:21:19,580
It's not
somebody selling, but
it's where somebody needs

423
00:21:19,580 --> 00:21:22,324
something, and I
think that's
what community is all about,

424
00:21:22,324 --> 00:21:24,084
right?
What do people
need?

425
00:21:24,084 --> 00:21:26,995
Do they need validation?
Do they need assistance finding

426
00:21:26,995 --> 00:21:29,114
somebody they haven't seen in
20 years?

427
00:21:29,114 --> 00:21:31,382
You know, what's the

storytelling behind it?

428
00:21:31,382 --> 00:21:35,562
And that is when we're at our
best, we're
helping people

429
00:21:35,562 --> 00:21:38,666
solve what problem, right?
And getting to
that, and we're

430
00:21:38,666 --> 00:21:41,520
doing it organically.
Jason: Annika, one question I


431
00:21:41,528 --> 00:21:44,885
wanted to ask you, going back to
the curriculum, and you had


432
00:21:44,893 --> 00:21:48,825
mentioned how the real showcase
of success, at least from a


433
00:21:48,833 --> 00:21:52,138
student starting a podcast, is
whether they continue it after


434
00:21:52,146 --> 00:21:54,440
graduation.
You also had mentioned how the

435
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,130
celebrities
have that built-in
audience, which most of us do

436
00:21:57,130 --> 00:21:59,003
not have
when we first get
started.

437
00:21:59,003 --> 00:22:02,210
How soon in the curriculum are
you
bringing that up with the

438
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,963
students so they understand they

need to come into this with

439
00:22:04,963 --> 00:22:07,130
the right mindset, so they're
not
thinking that just

440
00:22:07,130 --> 00:22:10,850
starting a podcast makes them
Amy Poehler
or Joe Rogan?

441
00:22:11,540 --> 00:22:13,922
Annika Jackson: Pretty early on,

and they're very aware.

442
00:22:13,922 --> 00:22:17,967
I mean, I have a former student
who has
a podcast who works at

443
00:22:17,967 --> 00:22:21,346
YouTube, and she used to be at
TikTok,
you know, and she came

444
00:22:21,346 --> 00:22:24,282
and spoke to the class, and her
podcast
does fine.

445
00:22:24,282 --> 00:22:26,919
It's, but it's not.
It probably helps her with her


446
00:22:26,927 --> 00:22:31,125
job, but it's not making her the
money to not have to do anything

447
00:22:31,125 --> 00:22:33,428

else.
We go through analytics, we talk

448
00:22:33,428 --> 00:22:35,997
about that a lot, and we
talk
about what it takes.

449
00:22:35,997 --> 00:22:38,525
So they have to create a
business
plan that includes

450
00:22:38,525 --> 00:22:42,630
their marketing mix, and that
has to
include, you know, paid

451
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:45,793
media as well as earned media as
well as
sharing on socials and

452
00:22:45,793 --> 00:22:48,530
your website and everywhere else
and
on your owned media.

453
00:22:48,530 --> 00:22:51,710
So we go through that model and
we talk
about like, here's

454
00:22:51,710 --> 00:22:54,390
what it took for me to get to
where I am at
now.

455
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:56,176
And guess what?
Some months are still better

456
00:22:56,176 --> 00:22:58,122
than others.
It
doesn't matter, you know.

457
00:22:58,122 --> 00:23:01,244
Maybe it's the guest, or maybe
it's
that you didn't put out

458
00:23:01,244 --> 00:23:03,465
as much content, or some other
reason.


459
00:23:03,473 --> 00:23:07,050
Just because you have one month
that's you know in the hundreds

460
00:23:07,050 --> 00:23:09,891
of 1000s doesn't mean every
month is going to be like that.

461
00:23:09,891 --> 00:23:11,450

And so I try to really be

462
00:23:11,450 --> 00:23:14,690
explicit, and I share a lot of

my statistics from behind the

463
00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:16,214
scenes with different podcasts.


464
00:23:16,222 --> 00:23:19,719
I love to have guest speakers
come in and talk about that.

465
00:23:19,719 --> 00:23:23,432
But
and the interesting thing
is, a lot of my students also

466
00:23:23,432 --> 00:23:26,180
come
from China, and from
countries.

467
00:23:26,210 --> 00:23:29,910
I've last semester, I had very

few U.S. based students.

468
00:23:29,910 --> 00:23:34,550
I had some from Germany, from
London,
like who were at USC

469
00:23:34,550 --> 00:23:36,890
now, right?
From other countries, and so


470
00:23:36,898 --> 00:23:40,308
some of them aren't even looking
at U.S. platforms, right?

471
00:23:40,308 --> 00:23:46,394
So I
try to show them, but I
get them on to like, you know, a

472
00:23:46,394 --> 00:23:50,585
hosting
site in the U.S.
I say put your content out in

473
00:23:50,585 --> 00:23:53,947
Chinese on these
other
platforms, but also put it out

474
00:23:53,947 --> 00:23:57,754
in Chinese on this platform

that's you know in the U.S.

475
00:23:57,754 --> 00:24:00,560
And they're seeing, oh, I am

actually reaching people in the

476
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,270
U.S. who want to hear a podcast
in their native language, so

477
00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:09,650
it's about kind of helping them
redirect their framing on

478
00:24:09,650 --> 00:24:12,029
everything.
And by the end of
class, most

479
00:24:12,029 --> 00:24:14,792
students say this was a lot
harder than I thought
it would

480
00:24:14,792 --> 00:24:16,910
be.
But a lot of them also say, "But

481
00:24:16,910 --> 00:24:19,695
it's worth it.
Jason: It's not just the snap


482
00:24:19,703 --> 00:24:21,209
your fingers and the magic
happens.

483
00:24:21,209 --> 00:24:24,773
It's actually work, but
the
work can be incredibly valuable.

484
00:24:24,773 --> 00:24:26,956
I love it.
So, well,
we're going to take

485
00:24:26,956 --> 00:24:29,939
a quick break here in a moment
to share
a couple

486
00:24:29,939 --> 00:24:32,210
announcements about the
conference in a few weeks.

487
00:24:32,210 --> 00:24:35,612
But
before we do, Annika, one
last time, real quick, plug a

488
00:24:35,612 --> 00:24:38,464
little
bit more about your
conference coming up in the

489
00:24:38,464 --> 00:24:41,810
spring of 2027
and what you
hope to accomplish at that

490
00:24:41,810 --> 00:24:43,442
conference.
Annika Jackson: Thank you.

491
00:24:43,442 --> 00:24:46,589
Yeah,
so I have been since I
started as an adjunct.

492
00:24:46,589 --> 00:24:49,286
I've been like,
we need to
have a podcast conference here

493
00:24:49,286 --> 00:24:52,554
because what I
was seeing is
that none of the major podcast

494
00:24:52,554 --> 00:24:56,088
conferences are
doing anything
on the West Coast, and there are

495
00:24:56,088 --> 00:24:59,570
a lot of
podcasters out here.
I mean, I'm in LA, right?

496
00:24:59,570 --> 00:25:01,550
So there.
The
whole industry, the

497
00:25:01,550 --> 00:25:03,868
entertainment industry, with

everybody doing podcasts.

498
00:25:03,868 --> 00:25:09,404
But I wanted to do a few things.
One
is bring people into USC,

499
00:25:09,404 --> 00:25:12,749
help USC brand a podcast
conference
on the West Coast,

500
00:25:12,749 --> 00:25:15,848
so we have something here.
Whether people
want to fly in

501
00:25:15,848 --> 00:25:18,440
for it, that's also fantastic,
and we want that
to happen.

502
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,960
But you also want something
where people don't
have to

503
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,490
travel as far because it's a
conference at USC.

504
00:25:23,490 --> 00:25:26,384
We
also, you know, these are
not conferences where we're

505
00:25:26,384 --> 00:25:28,784
trying
to make money.
We're a nonprofit institution,

506
00:25:28,784 --> 00:25:31,778
so we're really
trying to
create an environment for

507
00:25:31,778 --> 00:25:35,450
learning and for building

community and for also letting

508
00:25:35,450 --> 00:25:38,109
people in to see like what we're

doing in the world of

509
00:25:38,109 --> 00:25:40,272
podcasting on campus.
So I'm, you know,
that's what

510
00:25:40,272 --> 00:25:43,382
really excites me is bringing
people together, and
it's not

511
00:25:43,382 --> 00:25:46,085
about the celebrity quotient.
It's not about that.


512
00:25:46,093 --> 00:25:48,920
It's really about who's really
interested in getting involved


513
00:25:48,928 --> 00:25:53,060
or already invested in this, or
and how can I bring together


514
00:25:53,068 --> 00:25:56,297
people like yourselves again who
will help, who will really be


515
00:25:56,305 --> 00:25:59,320
able to talk and talk about the
good parts, the bad parts, and


516
00:25:59,328 --> 00:26:02,496
give really practical advice to
people Jason: that is awesome,

517
00:26:02,496 --> 00:26:05,866
and
that's early march, Annika
Jackson: 1 weekend of
March.

518
00:26:05,866 --> 00:26:08,762
Yes, Jason: Annika, bringing her
own
version of March Madness

519
00:26:08,762 --> 00:26:10,930
to the USC campus.
We love it.

520
00:26:10,930 --> 00:26:14,834
All
right, well, let's take a
quick break, as I said, and talk

521
00:26:14,834 --> 00:26:16,874
about
what's happening with
the Empowered Podcasting

522
00:26:16,874 --> 00:26:19,580
Conference.

Again, we're just a few short

523
00:26:19,580 --> 00:26:23,150
weeks away from convening in

Charlotte, North Carolina, at

524
00:26:23,150 --> 00:26:26,990
the Hyatt Centric Hotel for our
third annual event, Rich, why

525
00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:30,350
don't you tell us a little bit

more about some of the sponsors

526
00:26:30,350 --> 00:26:32,930
that we have helping us build

this event?

527
00:26:33,230 --> 00:26:35,930
Rich: Yeah, so one of the things

that we did this year, in

528
00:26:35,930 --> 00:26:39,807
addition to having you know your

sponsors that just have a lot

529
00:26:39,807 --> 00:26:43,370
of visuals, you know the logo

placements and things of that

530
00:26:43,370 --> 00:26:45,404
nature.
Because we are creators


531
00:26:45,412 --> 00:26:49,895
ourselves, we wanted to have a
special program just for our


532
00:26:49,903 --> 00:26:53,820
creators, and we launched the
Creator Partner Program, giving

533
00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:59,224
the opportunity to our creator
community to be a part of it as

534
00:26:59,224 --> 00:27:02,636
an official sponsor, doing what
it is that they do best.

535
00:27:02,636 --> 00:27:05,914
So, I'm
going to shout out
some of our creator partner

536
00:27:05,914 --> 00:27:10,709
program
sponsors: the Chern
Report podcast, Mozan Wellness,

537
00:27:10,709 --> 00:27:15,940
the
podcast teacher, Success
on Social, Volt Productions, our

538
00:27:15,940 --> 00:27:20,290

very own Your Brand Amplified.
We're speaking to Annika right


539
00:27:20,298 --> 00:27:24,250
now, and then, Cassiano
Creative; those are our creator

540
00:27:24,250 --> 00:27:28,172
partner participants, and they
are official sponsors of EPC


541
00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:30,590
Three.
And we're so grateful to have

542
00:27:30,590 --> 00:27:32,450
you.
Jason: Very, very cool.

543
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:36,014
And
Marc, I know you've got
something very cool to share


544
00:27:36,022 --> 00:27:39,180
with everyone today.
Marc Ronick: So I'm really


545
00:27:39,188 --> 00:27:41,194
excited.
We secured a photographer for

546
00:27:41,194 --> 00:27:45,014
this coming
August.
We actually have two, but one in

547
00:27:45,014 --> 00:27:46,679
particular.
His name
is Randy Young.

548
00:27:46,679 --> 00:27:48,742
His company is called Cut and
Shoot.

549
00:27:48,742 --> 00:27:52,212
And one of
the cool things
we're bringing this year that we

550
00:27:52,212 --> 00:27:55,650
haven't done
in the first two
years, he's going to take some

551
00:27:55,650 --> 00:27:57,776
time and
offer headshots to
everybody.

552
00:27:57,776 --> 00:28:01,220
I think that is one of the most
common things I hear from

553
00:28:01,220 --> 00:28:03,920
podcasters is I don't have a

headshot or I don't have a

554
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:07,340
professional headshot, so will

you use this you know candid

555
00:28:07,340 --> 00:28:09,250
picture of me at the amusement

park?

556
00:28:09,250 --> 00:28:11,654
You know, and it doesn't always
work well.

557
00:28:11,654 --> 00:28:15,672
So he's going
to be setting up
basically like a booth, and he's

558
00:28:15,672 --> 00:28:18,446
all and he is
charging for it,
but it's only 25 bucks.

559
00:28:18,446 --> 00:28:22,562
And I think if I don't
quote
me on this part, but I think you

560
00:28:22,562 --> 00:28:25,799
get like three
different
pictures from him for that.

561
00:28:25,799 --> 00:28:28,870
And like I said, I mean
he's a
pro, so you're going to be able

562
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:31,970
to walk away with some

professional headshots if you so

563
00:28:31,970 --> 00:28:34,490
choose when you come to a

powered podcasting three.

564
00:28:35,060 --> 00:28:37,388
Jason: Very good.
So not only
will you probably

565
00:28:37,388 --> 00:28:40,892
end up in a couple candid photos
from the
weekend thanks to

566
00:28:40,892 --> 00:28:43,274
Randy and Amelia's work, but
you'll also
get your

567
00:28:43,274 --> 00:28:45,088
opportunity to get those
headshots taken.

568
00:28:45,088 --> 00:28:48,572
So, Marc Ronick: yeah, Jason: I
will resurrect my
weekly theme

569
00:28:48,572 --> 00:28:51,395
song and tell you: go buy your
freaking ticket.


570
00:28:51,403 --> 00:28:53,474
What are you waiting for?
empoweredpodcasting.com.

571
00:28:53,474 --> 00:29:02,000
Use
code EPC Jason 20 to save
20% I get to use my code again

572
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,985
because
I'm running the
Riverside this week.

573
00:29:03,985 --> 00:29:08,894
Use EPC Rich 20, EPC Mark
20,
but overall, get your ticket.

574
00:29:08,894 --> 00:29:11,000
Join us in Charlotte.

You're going to have a

575
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,641
tremendous time.
We can
guarantee that.

576
00:29:12,641 --> 00:29:15,372
There's so much value on the
stage, but there's
going to be

577
00:29:15,372 --> 00:29:17,377
a lot happening in the hallways
as well.

578
00:29:17,377 --> 00:29:21,068
When you
buy your ticket, you
are automatically entered to win

579
00:29:21,068 --> 00:29:24,767
a
brand new Shure MV7
microphone, MV7 Plus microphone.

580
00:29:24,767 --> 00:29:28,914
So make
sure you're getting
your tickets now, and we look

581
00:29:28,914 --> 00:29:30,942
forward to
seeing you in
Charlotte.

582
00:29:30,942 --> 00:29:34,349
So staying on that theme,
Annika,
we know you're taking

583
00:29:34,349 --> 00:29:38,170
the stage once again.
You were on stage at
EPC2

584
00:29:38,170 --> 00:29:42,690
without giving away all of the
details and all of the value


585
00:29:42,698 --> 00:29:45,536
behind your presentation.
Tell us a little bit about what

586
00:29:45,536 --> 00:29:48,665
we
should expect from you as
you grab the microphone and rock

587
00:29:48,665 --> 00:29:51,302
it
once again this year.
Annika Jackson: Thank you.

588
00:29:51,302 --> 00:29:53,606
It's
interesting.
I'm not going to talk about AI

589
00:29:53,606 --> 00:29:56,957
or brand building
or any of
the things that I typically

590
00:29:56,957 --> 00:29:58,616
speak about.
I'm going
to speak about

591
00:29:58,616 --> 00:30:01,967
something that I've given to.
Smaller groups,
which I'm

592
00:30:01,967 --> 00:30:06,014
really excited about, and that's
I'm just gonna say
revenue

593
00:30:06,014 --> 00:30:08,135
cascade, right?
So thinking about a lot of

594
00:30:08,135 --> 00:30:09,914
people
think they're gonna
start a podcast, they're

595
00:30:09,914 --> 00:30:11,619
immediately
gonna start making
money.

596
00:30:11,619 --> 00:30:15,185
That's not true.
It takes time, and it
is an

597
00:30:15,185 --> 00:30:17,600
investment.
And a lot of people think, okay,

598
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,738
I have to
have ads on my show,
and that's the only way I can

599
00:30:20,738 --> 00:30:22,061
make money,
and that's also
not true.

600
00:30:22,061 --> 00:30:24,866
So we're going to walk through
some
things that I know are

601
00:30:24,866 --> 00:30:28,700
tried and true.
How I've been able to
monetize

602
00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:31,618
outside of advertising, because
I do advertising.

603
00:30:31,618 --> 00:30:34,520
I do
accept advertising on
just one of the shows that I

604
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,929
run, and I
have a few others.
So I'll talk about that, and

605
00:30:36,929 --> 00:30:39,270
I'll talk about
things that
people can do, and I'll also

606
00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:42,104
talk about a couple of
new
resources that I've just become

607
00:30:42,104 --> 00:30:44,900
part of that are going to
be
really good for podcasters of

608
00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:47,660
all sizes, and that really help
us figure out the most

609
00:30:47,660 --> 00:30:51,620
intentional ways to make money.
Marc Ronick: Can you share a


610
00:30:51,628 --> 00:30:55,160
little bit about the what kinds
of resources are those?

611
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,830
Annika Jackson: Yeah, well, I

mean, there are typical, you

612
00:30:57,830 --> 00:31:00,683
know, there are a whole bunch of

places that, as a podcaster,

613
00:31:00,683 --> 00:31:04,908
you can post your podcast and
make
deals for money, and they

614
00:31:04,908 --> 00:31:07,220
vary.
There's ones that only accept


615
00:31:07,228 --> 00:31:10,511
women podcasters.
I like to try things before I

616
00:31:10,511 --> 00:31:13,880
talk about them,
so some of
them are better than others.

617
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,306
And there's a new one
that
actually approached me for one

618
00:31:17,306 --> 00:31:19,460
of my very small because I

have another podcast called

619
00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:21,710
Zenzone Power Hour.
It's very
small.

620
00:31:21,710 --> 00:31:23,680
Doesn't always come out every
week.

621
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,564
It's kind of you
know because
I'm not always able to have

622
00:31:26,564 --> 00:31:29,288
conversations with the
former
Zen monk that I've learned from

623
00:31:29,288 --> 00:31:32,810
for that podcast.

So we do it when we can, and I

624
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:35,690
kind of give myself permission

to just to not take it as

625
00:31:35,690 --> 00:31:38,042
seriously.
But they reached out
of this

626
00:31:38,042 --> 00:31:40,856
platform, reached out about that
podcast, and said,
"Hey, we

627
00:31:40,856 --> 00:31:42,341
may have some advertisers for
you.

628
00:31:42,341 --> 00:31:45,572
And as a
platform, not just
for podcasters, it's also for

629
00:31:45,572 --> 00:31:48,881
all
kinds of creators.
And they, you put your profile

630
00:31:48,881 --> 00:31:51,404
in, and you put
what kind of
sponsors you want, and you can

631
00:31:51,404 --> 00:31:52,492
make sponsor pitches
right
there.

632
00:31:52,492 --> 00:31:54,400
But they will also have people
come to you.

633
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,954
It'll
even tell you these are
some other podcasters or some

634
00:31:56,954 --> 00:31:59,832
content
creators you should
partner with to get your, you

635
00:31:59,832 --> 00:32:02,540
know, to get
your stuff out
more, and so I haven't played

636
00:32:02,540 --> 00:32:06,370
around with
enough to give it
the name out yet, and to also

637
00:32:06,370 --> 00:32:10,170
like validate
what I, you
know, the thesis that they're

638
00:32:10,170 --> 00:32:11,470
bringing to me,
academic,
right?

639
00:32:11,470 --> 00:32:14,042
I'm still playing with it right
now,
actually, over the next

640
00:32:14,042 --> 00:32:18,408
couple weeks to see what happens
and if
it's something that you

641
00:32:18,408 --> 00:32:22,788
know I might not, with my very
small
other podcasts feel like

642
00:32:22,788 --> 00:32:26,876
I'm ready, but those podcasts
again,
I'm not putting a lot

643
00:32:26,876 --> 00:32:28,685
of energy into the promotion of
them.


644
00:32:28,693 --> 00:32:31,460
They're more just for those are
the ones for fun, and because


645
00:32:31,468 --> 00:32:34,179
I'm under a contract with your
brand amplified, I can't use it

646
00:32:34,179 --> 00:32:36,296
for that.
So, so I think there might be a

647
00:32:36,296 --> 00:32:38,152
mid tier, but I am
trying it
out.

648
00:32:38,152 --> 00:32:41,095
I have some other podcasters
going to ask to see,
you know

649
00:32:41,095 --> 00:32:43,199
what they can do with it as
well.

650
00:32:43,199 --> 00:32:46,575
So that's just one
way.
But you know, I also have turned

651
00:32:46,575 --> 00:32:50,210
this into a business that
I
never thought that I would turn

652
00:32:50,210 --> 00:32:52,010
it into when I started

podcasting.

653
00:32:52,010 --> 00:32:54,006
I didn't think I'd be teaching a
class.

654
00:32:54,006 --> 00:32:55,965
I didn't
think I would have a
program for entrepreneurs.

655
00:32:55,965 --> 00:32:58,414
I didn't think
that would lead
to a lot of other opportunities

656
00:32:58,414 --> 00:33:02,330
that bring
money in.
So, you know, I think a lot of

657
00:33:02,330 --> 00:33:04,580
us probably have that.

Not everybody starts a podcast

658
00:33:04,580 --> 00:33:06,700
to build a business.
We usually
maybe have a

659
00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:09,800
business and do a podcast.
So, I'm going to just
talk a

660
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,545
lot about, and hopefully, it's
going to be a really open


661
00:33:12,553 --> 00:33:14,170
conversation.
I want people to bring, you

662
00:33:14,170 --> 00:33:16,720
know, who are in the
audience
to talk about their experiences

663
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,520
and what they've
seen work or
not work.

664
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,340
Marc Ronick: I think that's one
of the brilliant things about

665
00:33:22,340 --> 00:33:26,540
empowered podcasting is that you

know because we are

666
00:33:26,540 --> 00:33:30,440
intentionally a more intimate

setting, I think that those

667
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,340
speaker sessions lends itself to

having more conversations with

668
00:33:34,610 --> 00:33:37,250
the presenter on stage.
There's
just something about

669
00:33:37,250 --> 00:33:40,792
it for me that I feel like I
learn a lot
better that way

670
00:33:40,792 --> 00:33:43,650
when I'm able to sit and
interact with the person
I'm

671
00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:46,070
learning from, and that's one of
the things I love about
what

672
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:48,005
we do.
Jason: Yeah, could not agree


673
00:33:48,013 --> 00:33:49,440
more.
Annika Jackson: Yeah, and I


674
00:33:49,448 --> 00:33:52,490
guess I will point out that
although you know I started my


675
00:33:52,498 --> 00:33:55,874
podcast, I was having fun, and
then realized it was a business.

676
00:33:55,874 --> 00:33:57,860


I also that's not how I tell

677
00:33:57,860 --> 00:33:59,575
people to look at them for

podcasts.

678
00:33:59,575 --> 00:34:02,424
I do share to be intentional,
and so there is a
podcaster

679
00:34:02,424 --> 00:34:05,660
I'm working with right now.
She's been podcasting for a


680
00:34:05,668 --> 00:34:08,666
few years.
She knows exactly who her target

681
00:34:08,666 --> 00:34:11,701
market is, so we're
doing
really intentional slow growth

682
00:34:11,701 --> 00:34:13,458
for numbers.
But our more
important thing

683
00:34:13,458 --> 00:34:16,523
is: does she have everything set
up properly
for lead gen?

684
00:34:16,523 --> 00:34:19,132
Because the people she's having
on her show are the
right

685
00:34:19,132 --> 00:34:22,514
audience for what she does, but
she needs to build out
a few

686
00:34:22,514 --> 00:34:24,498
other things.
So we've created a six month

687
00:34:24,498 --> 00:34:26,016
plan for
that, right?
So I do.

688
00:34:26,016 --> 00:34:28,304
I will talk about some of those
things,
like how you can build

689
00:34:28,304 --> 00:34:30,380
out your own plan for your
goals.

690
00:34:30,380 --> 00:34:34,241
My
podcast has also become a
great source of recommendations.

691
00:34:34,241 --> 00:34:38,116
I've
hired, you know, people
who've been on my podcast.

692
00:34:38,116 --> 00:34:40,906
I've hired
for the things that
they do that they've talked

693
00:34:40,906 --> 00:34:43,429
about on my show.

I've also been hired by people

694
00:34:43,429 --> 00:34:46,790
who've been on my show, so it

does become a really great

695
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:50,000
funnel for your business,

whether you mean it to or not.

696
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,969
So I will talk about how to

intentionally build those

697
00:34:52,969 --> 00:34:57,020
systems into that, so that you

are reaching those financial

698
00:34:57,020 --> 00:34:59,870
goals, whether they are

sponsors.

699
00:34:59,870 --> 00:35:04,440
Know brand deals, or simply just
having the right
people on who

700
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,222
would be good for your business.
Jason: That is going to be


701
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:10,418
incredibly insightful.
Can't wait to hear what you have

702
00:35:10,418 --> 00:35:11,960
to
say.
And outside of obviously, we

703
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,640
know you're bringing

tremendous value to the stage.

704
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,340
What are you most looking

forward to at this year's

705
00:35:16,340 --> 00:35:20,072
Empowered Podcasting Conference?
Annika Jackson: Ooh, what am I


706
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,020
most looking forward to seeing
people in person because there


707
00:35:23,028 --> 00:35:27,782
are so many of us in this world
who do a lot of work.

708
00:35:27,782 --> 00:35:32,258
We speak
at the conferences,
we show up, we put a lot of time

709
00:35:32,258 --> 00:35:35,185
and
intentionality into what
we do, but we don't get to get

710
00:35:35,185 --> 00:35:37,622
together
that often.
And there are people that I'll

711
00:35:37,622 --> 00:35:40,278
meet with semi
regularly.
Jason being one of those.

712
00:35:40,278 --> 00:35:43,880
I mean, Jason, your posts
are
what brought me to empowered

713
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,917
podcasting.
You know, seeing
what you did

714
00:35:45,917 --> 00:35:48,806
the first year, going to it, and
then last year
when you put

715
00:35:48,806 --> 00:35:51,550
out the call for speakers, I'm
like, let me just
see if I can

716
00:35:51,550 --> 00:35:54,794
like become a speaker, and then
okay, this is
amazing, right?

717
00:35:54,794 --> 00:35:57,680
And then this year, getting to
return as a
speaker, but also

718
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,100
being more involved, and in
between saying,
hey, I have

719
00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:03,455
this idea that I want to bring
to USC, and I
think you would

720
00:36:03,455 --> 00:36:06,059
be the perfect partner.
And so, those are the
kind of

721
00:36:06,059 --> 00:36:08,708
relationships and things that
build from seeing people in


722
00:36:08,716 --> 00:36:11,660
person.
And I know there's no such thing

723
00:36:11,660 --> 00:36:16,250
as-I mean, we all are

sometimes called experts, right?

724
00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:19,310
But I don't truly feel like an

expert because I'm always-I'm

725
00:36:19,610 --> 00:36:20,634
constantly.
What do I?

726
00:36:20,634 --> 00:36:24,194
I need to
work on my SEO.
I need to like go back and

727
00:36:24,194 --> 00:36:26,802
revamp all of this
stuff.
What's something else I can test

728
00:36:26,802 --> 00:36:28,925
and try?
And so there's
so much more we

729
00:36:28,925 --> 00:36:31,958
can learn from each other.
And so I love
hearing that,

730
00:36:31,958 --> 00:36:34,265
learning from other people, and
I'm really
looking forward to

731
00:36:34,265 --> 00:36:38,792
taking a lot of notes.
Marc Ronick: I do have a genuine

732
00:36:38,792 --> 00:36:42,558

question about what was it
about empowered podcasting, and

733
00:36:42,558 --> 00:36:48,050
you
know maybe maybe Jason or
me or Rich or what was it that

734
00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:52,398
got you
to say I want these
guys to help me with my

735
00:36:52,398 --> 00:36:56,210
conference at USC
because I'm
asking this because I I know

736
00:36:56,210 --> 00:36:57,910
you've been to other

conferences.

737
00:36:57,910 --> 00:37:02,420
So what was it about this one
that drew you to
us to say,

738
00:37:02,420 --> 00:37:06,186
"Come help me do this at USA.
Annika Jackson: Yeah, well,


739
00:37:06,194 --> 00:37:09,340
you're all very approachable,
and I think it's I think that's

740
00:37:09,340 --> 00:37:12,180
an important quality.
And it's not a you know you're

741
00:37:12,180 --> 00:37:15,533
not always
able to speak to
the people who are running the

742
00:37:15,533 --> 00:37:17,930
operation, who
are the
founders of a conference, right?

743
00:37:17,930 --> 00:37:22,720
And so that
number one, number
two, I want to really make the

744
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:26,441
conference
for the people.
I want to make sure that it's

745
00:37:26,441 --> 00:37:30,248
accessible to
people who maybe
aren't even podcasters yet, who

746
00:37:30,248 --> 00:37:32,078
are thinking
about starting
one.

747
00:37:32,078 --> 00:37:35,620
Right from them to the experts,
I don't
want to gatekeep, and

748
00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:37,802
that's something I really feel
like you
do well.

749
00:37:37,802 --> 00:37:39,800
Is like you want everybody to
share.

750
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,040
We're all in
this together,
and we all have something we can

751
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,398
learn, and we
all have
something we can teach, right?

752
00:37:45,398 --> 00:37:49,973
So, just pure, purely
selfish
reasons, being able to approach

753
00:37:49,973 --> 00:37:53,298
you and say, "Hey, this
is
something I'm working on.

754
00:37:53,298 --> 00:37:55,700
I don't know when it's going to
happen, but would you be

755
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:57,839
interested?
Because I also see
the kind of

756
00:37:57,839 --> 00:37:59,656
speakers that you're bringing to
the table.

757
00:37:59,656 --> 00:38:02,826
I know
they're the right
speakers for what I'm trying to

758
00:38:02,826 --> 00:38:05,210
accomplish as
well, right?
Marc Ronick: Yeah.

759
00:38:05,210 --> 00:38:07,100
Annika Jackson: So then that's

also why I want to come back.

760
00:38:07,130 --> 00:38:11,570
Wanted to come back because I am

also like I think all of us we

761
00:38:11,570 --> 00:38:13,880
all have different things going
on in our lives, and we have to

762
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,560
make choices about what we can

go to.

763
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,995
We don't have time for, and this
was really intentional
to say.

764
00:38:18,995 --> 00:38:21,662
I mean, I'm going to this
conference, I'm supposed to
go

765
00:38:21,662 --> 00:38:23,615
to a conference next week.
I'm skipping it.

766
00:38:23,615 --> 00:38:26,940
It's a big AI
conference, but
I'm skipping it to just have the

767
00:38:26,940 --> 00:38:30,308
time to work,
so that I have
time to really focus and be

768
00:38:30,308 --> 00:38:33,230
there and be fully
present at
Empowered Podcasting.

769
00:38:33,230 --> 00:38:35,418
And then I'm coming home and I'm

moving my daughter to college

770
00:38:35,418 --> 00:38:37,945
in Canada.
So you know, we make
choices

771
00:38:37,945 --> 00:38:41,954
about what we go to, and this is
definitely one that I'm
like.

772
00:38:41,954 --> 00:38:44,630
This is a yes, and y'all created
that, right?

773
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:48,626
And I do
feel like, I mean,
when I'm in a platform like

774
00:38:48,626 --> 00:38:49,906
this, it's easy
for me to
talk.

775
00:38:49,906 --> 00:38:53,598
When I'm teaching, it's easy for
me to
talk, but I'm actually

776
00:38:53,598 --> 00:38:58,150
pretty like shy in person.
I don't
really talk unless I

777
00:38:58,150 --> 00:39:01,310
have something to share most of
the
time, and so it can be

778
00:39:01,310 --> 00:39:04,250
uncomfortable, and it's even

talking about this is a little

779
00:39:04,250 --> 00:39:07,490
uncomfortable because it does

take me a lot of time to recover

780
00:39:07,490 --> 00:39:09,188
from like speaking or teaching.


781
00:39:09,196 --> 00:39:12,354
I need to be alone and have that
time, right?

782
00:39:12,354 --> 00:39:15,228
So it's hard for me
to even go
and approach people at a

783
00:39:15,228 --> 00:39:16,974
conference.
But so I didn't
do as much of

784
00:39:16,974 --> 00:39:18,542
that last year as I would like
to.

785
00:39:18,542 --> 00:39:21,860
So that's part
of one of my
goals too this year is to go up

786
00:39:21,860 --> 00:39:24,760
to people that I
haven't had
conversations with and figure

787
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,206
out what we can do
together.
It's a lot easier when you're

788
00:39:27,206 --> 00:39:30,930
hiding behind your
screen.
Well, and I'll also give you a

789
00:39:30,930 --> 00:39:33,528
little bit of leeway as
well
because if I'm not mistaken, you

790
00:39:33,528 --> 00:39:35,317
were a little
under the
weather last year.

791
00:39:35,317 --> 00:39:39,238
Oh yeah, Jason: yeah.
So okay, we're
expecting you

792
00:39:39,238 --> 00:39:42,630
at full form this year.
Okay, no, I'm with you.


793
00:39:42,638 --> 00:39:45,790
That's one of my favorite
elements-not just EPC, but all


794
00:39:45,798 --> 00:39:48,191
events.
You get to talk to real people.

795
00:39:48,191 --> 00:39:49,577
You get to have those

conversations.

796
00:39:49,577 --> 00:39:52,550
You get to discover new
opportunities that
you may

797
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:55,535
have never thought were possible
or never thought
existed.

798
00:39:55,535 --> 00:39:58,620
And this is my segue into
something, Annika, that you


799
00:39:58,628 --> 00:40:02,064
and I have been talking.
About a lot behind the scenes,

800
00:40:02,064 --> 00:40:06,678
it's the
non-people, it's the
spam bots, it's this epidemic in

801
00:40:06,678 --> 00:40:10,448

podcasting, and maybe I'm
making too much out of it, but

802
00:40:10,448 --> 00:40:13,358
I'm
doing it for a reason
because I want to.

803
00:40:13,358 --> 00:40:16,744
If there's any way to
stop
this, I want to find the way.

804
00:40:16,744 --> 00:40:19,430
And Anika, I know you and I

have been talking about this

805
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:23,690
because I discovered something

that I had never seen before,

806
00:40:23,690 --> 00:40:26,390
and this is why I want people to

be aware of what we're talking

807
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:29,026
about.
So, just to give a brief


808
00:40:29,034 --> 00:40:32,470
backstory, you've probably been
approached at some point if you

809
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:36,230
are a podcaster on LinkedIn,
especially, but it's on all the

810
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:40,730
other platforms as well.
But it's these fake bots from


811
00:40:40,738 --> 00:40:45,124
foreign countries that want to
blow up your podcast.

812
00:40:45,124 --> 00:40:49,020
They are
podcast promoters.
They can get you top ranking on

813
00:40:49,020 --> 00:40:51,295
iTunes.
Is
the one they always say

814
00:40:51,295 --> 00:40:53,678
first, which is hilarious
because it's
Apple Podcasts

815
00:40:53,678 --> 00:40:56,009
now.
But still, across the board,

816
00:40:56,009 --> 00:40:58,852
they want to
make you the best
podcaster in the world, and they

817
00:40:58,852 --> 00:41:00,680
have their
ways of doing.
And it's all bullshit.

818
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,660
It's all fake.
It's
all nonsense.

819
00:41:02,660 --> 00:41:06,852
And if you are to succumb to the
scam, there are
some bad

820
00:41:06,852 --> 00:41:09,295
things that can happen.
They could hijack your show.


821
00:41:09,303 --> 00:41:12,022
They could hold you up for
ransom if you don't want to pay

822
00:41:12,022 --> 00:41:13,800
them anymore.
And this is why I feel

823
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,755
podcasters need to be aware
of
it.

824
00:41:15,755 --> 00:41:18,650
And it's probably why I scream
so loudly from the


825
00:41:18,658 --> 00:41:21,650
mountaintops that you can't have
all of your focus on download


826
00:41:21,658 --> 00:41:23,750
numbers, or it will mess with
your mind.

827
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:27,370
But in your case,
Annika, as
we were talking about this, we

828
00:41:27,370 --> 00:41:30,104
had had some
conversations,
and one day I got one of those

829
00:41:30,104 --> 00:41:32,885
promotions that
came over, and
I always look to see just to

830
00:41:32,885 --> 00:41:35,018
double check to make
sure
they're fake.

831
00:41:35,018 --> 00:41:37,434
And there are ways that you can
tell that, and
I don't want to

832
00:41:37,434 --> 00:41:40,175
get into all the details today.
But I looked at
this one, and

833
00:41:40,175 --> 00:41:45,574
they had your podcast listed as
an employer,
which I had never

834
00:41:45,574 --> 00:41:48,352
seen before.
And now you had told me that you

835
00:41:48,352 --> 00:41:50,534

found a few more that did the
exact same thing.

836
00:41:50,534 --> 00:41:52,913
So how did
you?
How did this happen?

837
00:41:52,913 --> 00:41:56,675
What do we do to stop this?
Annika Jackson: And that's such

838
00:41:56,675 --> 00:41:59,770
a good question because, well,
first of all, one of the


839
00:41:59,778 --> 00:42:02,085
conversations that you had was
somebody was using my name and


840
00:42:02,093 --> 00:42:04,758
saying, "Oh, we promoted this
podcast, and like Jason: that's

841
00:42:04,758 --> 00:42:07,077
right, they did.
Annika Jackson: Don't know who


842
00:42:07,085 --> 00:42:09,572
this person is, like, and that's
happened many times.

843
00:42:09,572 --> 00:42:13,547
I think
there was there been a
couple times when I've tested

844
00:42:13,547 --> 00:42:16,389
because,
again, I full
transparency, I will try

845
00:42:16,389 --> 00:42:19,893
everything so that I
can tell
people the positives and the

846
00:42:19,893 --> 00:42:23,258
negatives, and this is
clearly
a negative, and I think there

847
00:42:23,258 --> 00:42:27,068
was somebody I tried out a
few
years back and was like for a

848
00:42:27,068 --> 00:42:30,142
month trial, and I was like,

nope, this is not a thing.

849
00:42:30,142 --> 00:42:32,134
And they were still using my

podcast.

850
00:42:32,134 --> 00:42:35,631
In fact, I think had my podcast
on their website, and
I'm

851
00:42:35,631 --> 00:42:38,171
like, no.
And then on LinkedIn, you told

852
00:42:38,171 --> 00:42:40,192
me somebody
had listed my
podcast.

853
00:42:40,192 --> 00:42:42,561
I'm like, I've never heard of
this person.


854
00:42:42,569 --> 00:42:45,478
I go through all my emails.
I go through everything.

855
00:42:45,478 --> 00:42:49,515
I'm like, I
can literally have
not ever had a conversation, and

856
00:42:49,515 --> 00:42:53,037
and then I
found on my
LinkedIn profile that there were

857
00:42:53,037 --> 00:42:56,202
three people who
listed my
podcast who I'd never heard

858
00:42:56,202 --> 00:42:58,767
about, who I didn't know,
who
I've never used.

859
00:42:58,767 --> 00:43:02,474
I do think there are bots, and I
think
there are some people

860
00:43:02,474 --> 00:43:05,530
who are just trying to make
money
wherever they live.

861
00:43:05,530 --> 00:43:08,106
Right.
I do think that some of them-not

862
00:43:08,106 --> 00:43:11,613
the
ones who are spamming
us-but there are people who are

863
00:43:11,613 --> 00:43:14,714
actual
promoters who know how
to properly advertise your

864
00:43:14,714 --> 00:43:17,144
podcast.

I've talked to big podcasters

865
00:43:17,202 --> 00:43:20,201
who who've gotten really big,

who literally like do

866
00:43:20,260 --> 00:43:22,443
advertising.
I do think
advertising has to

867
00:43:22,443 --> 00:43:26,240
be part of the mix, but I also
think that a
lot of these

868
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:28,099
people are doing it the wrong
way.

869
00:43:28,099 --> 00:43:31,528
Case in point,
one of the
people who I let test like Apple

870
00:43:31,528 --> 00:43:35,114
for it was a half
month, and
then I found out they're using

871
00:43:35,114 --> 00:43:38,735
an outdated iTunes
or Apple
Podcasts account, and only X

872
00:43:38,735 --> 00:43:41,428
amount of you know
however
many IP addresses were

873
00:43:41,487 --> 00:43:44,897
supposedly downloading, and

these are tests I've run on my

874
00:43:44,956 --> 00:43:47,277
smaller podcasts.
But because I
have the

875
00:43:47,277 --> 00:43:50,499
sandbox, right, I get to just
experiment with them
until I

876
00:43:50,499 --> 00:43:53,534
get to move on.
But I was able to directly go,

877
00:43:53,534 --> 00:43:56,776
yeah,
this is a real person,
but they are using completely

878
00:43:56,776 --> 00:43:59,597
fake ways.

They are using like bot farms to

879
00:43:59,656 --> 00:44:01,753
try to increase numbers, and

that's why.

880
00:44:01,753 --> 00:44:05,359
Like, do I like numbers?
Do I like the fact that
your

881
00:44:05,359 --> 00:44:08,865
brand amplified is a bigger
podcast for you know, like us


882
00:44:08,873 --> 00:44:10,497
the smaller podcasters out
there?

883
00:44:10,497 --> 00:44:12,547
Yes, but am I going to
use
that?

884
00:44:12,547 --> 00:44:15,571
No, I'm going to use.
There are so many other methods

885
00:44:15,571 --> 00:44:19,904
you can do it the correct way.
So it is an epidemic, constantly

886
00:44:19,904 --> 00:44:23,112

getting LinkedIn requests,
constantly getting spam in every

887
00:44:23,112 --> 00:44:25,726

single social media account,
every email account.

888
00:44:25,726 --> 00:44:28,968
It's a big
problem.
There are other big problems as

889
00:44:28,968 --> 00:44:31,130
well.
Like there are
also the kinds

890
00:44:31,130 --> 00:44:34,597
of the software ones that right
that put out
spam messages to

891
00:44:34,597 --> 00:44:37,043
get you to want like to guest
requests.

892
00:44:37,043 --> 00:44:40,566
Because
Rich, I know we were
talking about this on your

893
00:44:40,566 --> 00:44:42,697
LinkedIn.

These are two of the biggest

894
00:44:42,756 --> 00:44:46,225
issues, I think fundamentally

right now is this AI spam and

895
00:44:46,284 --> 00:44:49,301
people misusing things.
And
there are a lot of

896
00:44:49,301 --> 00:44:52,474
podcasters who will try these
out, and
they're not going to

897
00:44:52,474 --> 00:44:55,094
get success.
And it's I feel like
it's

898
00:44:55,094 --> 00:44:57,981
almost like getting shadow
banned right on social media.


899
00:44:57,989 --> 00:45:01,721
Like you use these kind of.
Farms or whatever to get likes


900
00:45:01,729 --> 00:45:05,235
or follows or whatever on social
media, you get shadow banned.


901
00:45:05,243 --> 00:45:09,040
Same things, I think, going to
start happening for podcasters.

902
00:45:09,150 --> 00:45:12,390
Jason: I can see it, and I'm

determined to figure this out.

903
00:45:12,540 --> 00:45:15,600
Mark and I have talked about it
on the side as well.

904
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,745
Mark's Mark made a great point.
The more you
interact with

905
00:45:17,745 --> 00:45:21,184
them, the more they seem to more
of them pop
up.

906
00:45:21,184 --> 00:45:25,352
I did a whole episode about how
do we eradicate this
problem,

907
00:45:25,352 --> 00:45:27,140
and it doubled the number that I
got.

908
00:45:27,140 --> 00:45:29,972
Even had a
couple of the bots
reach out and compliment me on

909
00:45:29,972 --> 00:45:31,760
how great the
episode was.
Like Annika Jackson: no way.

910
00:45:32,510 --> 00:45:34,112
Jason: Oh yeah, yeah.
Like that.


911
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:35,638
This was incredibly insightful
content.

912
00:45:35,638 --> 00:45:37,379
Thank you for sharing
it.
I'm like Jesus.

913
00:45:37,379 --> 00:45:40,180
We can't win here.
But again, like I think
one

914
00:45:40,180 --> 00:45:43,024
one thing that I've noticed, and
again, I don't know if
there's

915
00:45:43,024 --> 00:45:45,475
any scientific proof behind
this, but something I've


916
00:45:45,483 --> 00:45:49,890
noticed is if you have a person
that you are connected to who


917
00:45:49,898 --> 00:45:53,305
has friended or connected with
one of these bots, and they


918
00:45:53,313 --> 00:45:56,290
comment on something you posted
regarding a podcast, it triggers

919
00:45:56,290 --> 00:46:00,532

the bot to to comment as well,
and their comment will be


920
00:46:00,540 --> 00:46:03,648
something very similar.
It'll obviously it just looks

921
00:46:03,648 --> 00:46:06,105
like
something ChatGPT
created, but it's something that

922
00:46:06,105 --> 00:46:09,192
it mirrors
what the person
that you are also mutually

923
00:46:09,192 --> 00:46:13,184
connected with
said.
So the lesson is: don't connect

924
00:46:13,184 --> 00:46:15,214
with them, regardless of
what
they're telling you.

925
00:46:15,214 --> 00:46:17,578
I feel bad for the real
promoters, like
you said,

926
00:46:17,578 --> 00:46:20,179
Annika, because these bots have
scorched the earth for
their

927
00:46:20,179 --> 00:46:22,169
efforts.
It's so hard for them to

928
00:46:22,169 --> 00:46:26,060
actually do their job
because
they are probably lumped in with

929
00:46:26,060 --> 00:46:28,865
all of this nonsense.
Annika Jackson: And you know,


930
00:46:28,873 --> 00:46:32,192
this isn't just for podcasters,
but it's such a big issue.

931
00:46:32,192 --> 00:46:36,005
I
have hundreds of LinkedIn
networking requests I can't even

932
00:46:36,005 --> 00:46:38,962

get to because so many of them
are people.

933
00:46:38,962 --> 00:46:40,120
I'm like, is this a
real
person?

934
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,050
Is this a fake person?
Are they going to try to
sell

935
00:46:43,050 --> 00:46:45,205
me something?
I don't mind adding people that

936
00:46:45,205 --> 00:46:48,619
I think I can
learn from, but
I don't want to just add people

937
00:46:48,619 --> 00:46:51,640
for the numbers,
right?
To have another follower or

938
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,600
connection on LinkedIn, and I

hate it when people the first

939
00:46:56,380 --> 00:46:59,530
response or the first you know

message is they're going to try

940
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,388
to sell me something.
So this is
a huge epidemic.

941
00:47:02,388 --> 00:47:06,058
You're absolutely correct, and
I, you
come up with ways

942
00:47:06,058 --> 00:47:08,305
beyond just ignoring them all to
combat.


943
00:47:08,313 --> 00:47:10,890
Please share.
You can make a lot of money.

944
00:47:10,890 --> 00:47:13,745
Yeah, Jason: I'm waiting for the

conference to be over so I

945
00:47:13,745 --> 00:47:16,746
have a little bit of time.
I have an
idea that I will

946
00:47:16,746 --> 00:47:18,540
roll out.
I'd like to be able to just go

947
00:47:18,540 --> 00:47:19,590
to
LinkedIn and say, "Look at
this.

948
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,970
This is tangible proof that

these people are trying to

949
00:47:23,180 --> 00:47:26,630
hijack people's shows, and it's
not fair, especially to the

950
00:47:26,780 --> 00:47:29,900
honest creator that may not

understand that messaging of

951
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:33,558
downloads are important in their

own respect, but you can't

952
00:47:33,558 --> 00:47:37,991
rely on rely on it as the be all
end
all, or fall prey to these

953
00:47:37,991 --> 00:47:40,558
traps that could potentially
damage
your show, get you

954
00:47:40,558 --> 00:47:42,652
shadow banned.
Who knows what could
happen?

955
00:47:42,652 --> 00:47:45,306
But it's terrible that this is
something that continues
to

956
00:47:45,306 --> 00:47:47,442
persist.
Annika Jackson: I will tell the

957
00:47:47,442 --> 00:47:50,982
audience this: the better thing
for me is always when I have a


958
00:47:50,990 --> 00:47:54,354
guest who comes on, who says,
"I've been listening to your


959
00:47:54,362 --> 00:47:56,398
show.
I'm really, you know, I'm

960
00:47:56,460 --> 00:47:59,229
enjoying it, and I'm so excited
to be a guest.

961
00:47:59,229 --> 00:48:02,939
That is so much more valuable to
me because I
know they're

962
00:48:02,939 --> 00:48:06,577
going to share the episode.
I know they're going
to, if

963
00:48:06,577 --> 00:48:09,660
they have somebody in their
network, I should meet.


964
00:48:09,668 --> 00:48:12,426
They're going to connect us.
I want that.

965
00:48:12,426 --> 00:48:14,074
I want the authentic

connection.

966
00:48:14,074 --> 00:48:16,587
But I love it.
Marc Ronick: I love the word.

967
00:48:16,587 --> 00:48:19,187
I
love the word.
I just know that word can be a

968
00:48:19,187 --> 00:48:21,805
trigger word for a
lot of
people because it can be

969
00:48:21,861 --> 00:48:23,325
overused, but yeah, absolutely.


970
00:48:23,333 --> 00:48:26,939
There's no better word than
authentic, and I agree with you.

971
00:48:26,939 --> 00:48:28,667


I would much rather have that

972
00:48:28,723 --> 00:48:31,680
every day of the week than the

alternative, for sure.

973
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,370
Jason: Well, one bot at a time,
they are getting blocked and

974
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,310
reported from my account, so I

encourage everyone else to

975
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,794
follow suit.
Well, boys, before
we wrap up,

976
00:48:39,794 --> 00:48:42,534
Anika, thank you so much for
taking the time to join
us

977
00:48:42,534 --> 00:48:44,250
today.
It's been a pleasure having you

978
00:48:44,250 --> 00:48:46,524
at the event, getting
to know
you over these past several

979
00:48:46,524 --> 00:48:48,896
years that you and I
have been
friends, and I'm looking forward

980
00:48:48,896 --> 00:48:50,920
to seeing you in
Charlotte as
our Mark and Rich.

981
00:48:51,010 --> 00:48:53,335
I'm sure Annika Jackson: this is
really
fun conversation.

982
00:48:53,335 --> 00:48:55,018
Thank you.
You asked great questions.

983
00:48:55,018 --> 00:48:58,149
I love
talking about and
getting wonky about podcasting

984
00:48:58,149 --> 00:49:01,741
and you know
academics and all
that stuff.

985
00:49:01,741 --> 00:49:04,500
So anytime I have a chance to
talk
about that, I will.

986
00:49:04,890 --> 00:49:06,345
Jason: Good.
Well, we'll bring
you back

987
00:49:06,345 --> 00:49:08,736
more in the future, and I'm sure
these conversations are
going

988
00:49:08,736 --> 00:49:11,484
to continue off the mic.
Rich, you're chomping at the


989
00:49:11,492 --> 00:49:13,200
bit.
Bring us home, my friend.

990
00:49:14,250 --> 00:49:17,610
Rich: Speaking of some of our

in-kind sponsors, shouting out

991
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,670
Podfest, Multimedia Expo, cons

helping cons, also military

992
00:49:22,820 --> 00:49:26,911
creator con happening next year
in Dallas Fort Worth area.

993
00:49:26,911 --> 00:49:29,022
We'll be going there.
They're going to
be coming to

994
00:49:29,022 --> 00:49:30,854
us.
We're going to be going to them

995
00:49:30,854 --> 00:49:34,258
to support
them.
Also shouting out Pod Glue, Pod

996
00:49:34,258 --> 00:49:39,727
News, Pod Page,
Earbuds
Podcast Alliance, Webby AI.

997
00:49:39,727 --> 00:49:44,676
Of course, the podcast
morning
show and our good friends over

998
00:49:44,676 --> 00:49:47,809
at Lifey for making
the Lifey
journals.

999
00:49:47,809 --> 00:49:51,082
So make sure you're taking
diligent notes,
just like

1000
00:49:51,082 --> 00:49:54,060
Annika.
We got a journal for you to put

1001
00:49:54,060 --> 00:49:58,114
in your
best action steps,
what you need to take home, and

1002
00:49:58,114 --> 00:50:01,566
also some fond
memories.
While you're there, Jason: I

1003
00:50:01,566 --> 00:50:03,930
want to say one thing,
Rich.
Did you mention MoPod as a

1004
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:05,880
sponsor in that lineup earlier

in the show?

1005
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,497
Rich: Yeah, in the beginning,

because they are our pre-party

1006
00:50:10,497 --> 00:50:12,897
sponsor, Jason: exactly.
And I wanted to
say in regards

1007
00:50:12,897 --> 00:50:15,487
to companies that actually do
this type of
promotion, right?

1008
00:50:15,487 --> 00:50:17,770
They're one of them.
That's an actual
legitimate

1009
00:50:17,770 --> 00:50:20,716
company that does the promotion
and gets you the
numbers

1010
00:50:20,716 --> 00:50:23,100
through the resources and the
channels that are
actually

1011
00:50:23,100 --> 00:50:25,631
going to help you.
So, if this is the game that

1012
00:50:25,631 --> 00:50:28,155
you're
looking to play and you
want to enhance your download

1013
00:50:28,155 --> 00:50:30,982
numbers,
look at MoPod.
They are a company that can help

1014
00:50:30,982 --> 00:50:32,420
you do
this right.
Marc Ronick: Agreed.

1015
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,690
Jason: All right, everybody,

thank you so much for checking

1016
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,414
out this week's installment of

Empowered Podcasting Live.

1017
00:50:39,414 --> 00:50:42,158
Man, we've only got a few of
these
left because we'll

1018
00:50:42,158 --> 00:50:44,920
probably take a little break
after the
conference, I would

1019
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,925
imagine.
But we're not going on hiatus

1020
00:50:46,925 --> 00:50:48,880
yet.

We'll be back next week with the

1021
00:50:49,450 --> 00:50:51,568
one and only Simona Costantini.


1022
00:50:51,576 --> 00:50:55,768
So another fun conversation
lined up for you next Wednesday,

1023
00:50:55,768 --> 00:50:58,558

1o'clock, live on Facebook,
LinkedIn, and YouTube.

1024
00:50:58,558 --> 00:51:01,710
And I'm
assuming we'll be back
on Clubhouse then too.

1025
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,929
Marc Ronick: Yes, absolutely.
Jason: All right.

1026
00:51:04,929 --> 00:51:08,188
Well, on
behalf of Marc
Ronick, on behalf of Rich Perry,

1027
00:51:08,188 --> 00:51:11,936
and on behalf of
our great
guest Annika Jackson, my name is

1028
00:51:11,936 --> 00:51:13,958
Jason Circon.
Thank
you for being here.

1029
00:51:13,958 --> 00:51:16,388
We look forward to seeing you
next week.


1030
00:51:16,396 --> 00:51:18,239
And one last
time@powerpodcasting.com, get


1031
00:51:18,247 --> 00:51:21,964
your ticket.
EPC Jason 20 will save you 20%

1032
00:51:21,964 --> 00:51:24,571
on your ticket.

Everybody, thank you very much.

1033
00:51:24,631 --> 00:51:27,200
And as Marc would say, make it a

great day.