How to Get Found on Apple Podcasts & Spotify

0:04 Marc Ronick: What if the real growing has less to do with your whether people can actually find Today's episode is a little different from our usual podcasting morning show format. We're bringing you a special replay from our Empowered Podcasting Live series featuring Julia joined us for a really practical conversation about podcast SEO, and she breaks down why getting found in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and other podcast apps works differently than ranking on Google. We talk about podcast titles, episode titles, show notes, keywords, and the simple changes that can help the right So whether you're trying to grow podcast strategy, or finally actually means, hi there. This conversation is worth your time. Here's our empowered podcasting live conversation with Julia Levine.

1:06 Jason: Welcome back, everybody, to empowered podcasting live. I am one of your three hosts, As you may have gotten used to, or maybe not. Maybe this is the first time you've stumbled upon our weekly live stream. We are with you every Wednesday at 1o'clock on LinkedIn, on YouTube, and on Clubhouse. This is our opportunity to connect with you each week and let you know what's happening with the Empowered Podcasting Conference as we gear up for things happening August 21 through 23rd and it gives us a chance to sit down with some of our sponsors, some of our creator partners, and some of the people that are helping bring empowered podcasting together. Today is no different.

1:48 First off, I'd like to shout out my two co-hosts, Mark Ronick. Marc Ronick: Hey, Jason, and I'm what's going on here? Because usually I, I know I take the lead. Mark got Jason: tired. He's like, I got Marc Ronick: tired. Yeah, I Jason: need a break. What do you guys do this? So I took the reins on this one. But Mark will be contributing just as much as always. He's just not handling the intro today. We're also joined by the one and only Rich Perry. What's up, Rich? Rich: What's going on, dude? Jason: Oh, you know, same old, same old. Are you Rich coming Marc Ronick: live from the air-conditioned headquarters over there. We can hear that loud and clear. Rich: It's better than me being a dripping, sweaty mess. So I got your power, brother. Bear with this, so you don't have to bear with this. Jason: I think we'll get used to every week by one of our today. We've got our creator partner Julia Levine in the house. What's up, Julia?

2:47 Julia Levine: Hey, everybody! So happy to be here with you today. Jason: Glad you could join us. We're going to tap into your expertise, which is podcast SEO. your presentation at the We don't want to give away everything, but we do want you to provide a little bit of an update for, or a little bit of a sneak preview, I should say, to our audience, so they know exactly what type of value you're bringing to the stage, and hopefully you're going to entice some people to buy their tickets. Because I will go into broken record mode in a little bit about tickets, but before we get to that, let's start with you, Julia. You've been podcasting for a while, and you've also been helping a lot of people in podcasting.

3:27 And your expertise is podcast SEO. This is something that I feel paying more attention to. It was a tremendous opportunity for me to get to learn more from you and my audience on my show, Podcasting Strategy Simplified. When you joined me, and really gave us an hour long masterclass I'm not going to tell the whole story, but I recently rebranded my podcast, and the biggest reason why was I tapped into podcast SEO and realized that I didn't have it. I didn't have what I needed, and So when I started focusing more on the things that are going to make my show visible, everything changed. So Julia, on your front, tell us what brought you into the world of podcasting and what made you go all in on podcast SEO. Julia Levine: Yeah, well, I have That was my first life career, and when I decided to leave teaching for various reasons, I was like, "What on earth am I going to do with myself? And so I found podcasting as a career because I loved being a podcast listener.

4:37 I had a period of health in my visual stimulation, and so I was audio books exclusively for about six months, and so I just got really into the medium. And when I decided to leave teaching, I was like, "Huh, I wonder if I could do something with this." And I first started out in the production side of it, just kind of doing something that I could have do from home, flexible hours, whatnot. And I very quickly discovered that I really missed the teaching piece. I missed that, you know, holding someone's hand, walking them through the process, guiding them towards success, that type of thing, and my editing clients were constantly asking me a lot of questions, and so my brand evolved, and I rebranded as the podcast teacher, and brought back that that passion of mine.

5:35 So combining my passion for podcasting and my passion for teaching as well, and then I love SEO because it's behind the So some of you know I am a really big introvert, and I don't love marketing because it sucks my energy. Even though maybe recording a reel or something isn't necessarily interacting with another human, I still have to be quote unquote on. Like I have to put the energy into it, and I am just constantly exhausted by marketing. And I think of marketing kind of as chasing listeners. You know, come listen to my show, come listen to my show. Here's this new episode, and I was just constantly exhausted, and so therefore I didn't do a lot of it. And I was like, you know, there's got to be a better way to get listeners and have people come to me when they're searching for information, rather than me going out and trying to recruit them, and so that's how I got into podcast SEO.

6:46 Marc Ronick: Very cool. And so then let's break this down a little bit here when we talk about podcast SEO, because quite frankly, for the longest time, just I'm going to admit it that my narrow-minded ways, I was thinking it's really all the same, right? Like it's SEO is SEO is SEO, and you know, like my thought was, if it's going to work on Google, it's going to work on Apple Podcasts, right? and why do all podcasters need Julia Levine: Yes, and that's a super common misconception, and a lot of people-I mean, not a who claim to teach podcast SEO for your podcast content. So, putting your podcast content on your website and getting your website to rank on Google, or these days in the AI search engines, but podcast SEO is really focused on the podcast players themselves.

7:48 So Apple, Spotify, Overcast, Pocket Casts, all the different players that we have options for people to listen to our shows, and the algorithm works very differently than Google, and so as a podcaster, especially as an introverted podcaster who doesn't want to do that chasing of listeners, we want to stop chasing them and have them come to us. If we optimize our podcast for the podcast player algorithm specifically, then when a user types something into their Apple search bar, their Spotify search bar, then we can pop up near the top of the results for that search query, and then they're clicking on our show to get the information that they were directly searching for, and we are meeting their information or entertainment need in that moment, which of course leads to a much better fit.

8:50 So there's the discovery attracting the right listener. an information need and your that information need, then it's probably have gained a long-term listener. So that's why every podcaster needs to be using podcast SEO. Rich: Love that. Okay, Rich, you have any questions? I do. I am enjoying wearing my students' hat right now because I worked for about two years at a digital marketing agency that focused on SEO and SEM. So for the longest time, admittedly, when people kept saying podcast SEO, podcast SEO, that's where my mind went, which is what you were just talking about, is using SEO to rank on Google, but not necessarily in the podcast platforms themselves.

9:52 So right now, when you said that, I was like, "Oh, I get it now. Okay, so. Julia Levine: Like for someone digital marketing experience header, you know, headers and that you know, metadata and Like, what are the major differences between podcast SEO and like a Google SEO? Because I don't know, and I'm sure there's a couple of people out there that are like me that just like, oh, I didn't realize it was two different things. So yeah, so that's a great question, and there are some similarities in the sense that there are certain fields that you want to optimize on your podcast, just like there are certain fields of a web page that you want to optimize. The biggest difference is that for Google SEO, you want to target one keyword or key phrase only once, and so you're putting all of your best effort onto that page, making it the best page it can possibly be, and you're trying to get that specific page to rank for that specific term. In podcast SEO, it is different because you are trying to rank for one thing constantly.

11:15 So if someone searches for podcasting, I want to be at the top of that list every time, no matter what episode. I want my show there at the top, and so it is a repetition, a reinforcement of this is my topic. This is what I am an expert at. This is what all of my episodes are about. This is what I should be at the top of the list for, and so Google, we want to target different terms. Podcast SEO, we want to target the same term. Rich: Can I ask a quick follow I don't want to like hop on you guys.

11:55 No, go for it. So okay, in the event that let's say it's an interview-based podcast, okay? And you are talking to different people, and you're writing the show notes, and you know, with this guest, you talked about this thing. Yeah, it fits under. It might fit under that umbrella, but this guest, we talked about this thing. This guest, we talked about this thing. So, if you're going to use those show notes to describe what was discussed in that particular show. How do you find that through line so that you are ranking for that keyword, or am I just really overcomplicating it and just confusing myself because that's a possibility too? Julia Levine: Well, I think you said something important there of finding the through line because you don't want to have a random guest on your podcast come and talk about a random topic.

12:48 So if I'm bringing someone onto my show, we are talking about podcasting in some way. Maybe we're talking about how podcasters can grow an email Maybe we're talking about how to make sales from your podcast. Maybe we're talking about SEO or you know whatever it is. It's always related to podcasting in some way. Otherwise, I wouldn't be having them on my show. And so you need to tie those things together. You need to make it clear for Hey, this is about this, and we sprinkle in some of this, and then also, honestly, I encourage people to have kind of a three to one content ratio of solo episodes to interview episodes. And I should caveat that and say which is small business owners who are trying to use a podcast to get clients. So for that specific audience, I recommend a three to one content ratio.

13:51 And so guests are, you know, on average once a month or so. I do even less than that on my own show. I can't even remember the last time I had a guest on my show, and that is because I want to position myself as the expert on this topic, and I want to have people getting to know, like, and trust me, and then purchase my programs, do coaching with me, that type of thing. That's the purpose of my incredible. That's one of my favorite things about solo content is when you bring guests on your show. Yes, there's always going to be that opportunity for a great conversation, but by default, you're splitting the audience in most attention to. So, with my show, I do every five episodes, then I'll have a guest come on.

14:42 So for me, I've gotten so environment that I prefer it. don't prefer this type of I guess you can say I'm just taken in all of the worlds of podcasting and made them my own. But I am 100% on board with what you're saying, Julie. I think there is so much value in the solo. Podcasting, but what I want to throw back at you for those that aren't comfortable in that particular zone-they're more comfortable having a person come on the show that can carry a little bit of the load. They have somebody to talk to. What pointers can you give them that would help them overcome that obstacle and become a better solo podcaster. Julia Levine: Yeah, so solo podcasts are absolutely tricky, and depending on the purpose of your podcast, again, I kind of caveat that with you know my audience that I'm talking to are it's a very specific group that I'm talking to, and so everyone listening to this may not fall into that group. So, I'm not necessarily saying that you know you shouldn't have guests on your podcast at all. And my favorite podcaster to work with is the Beginning Podcaster.

15:53 I love helping people from day one start their show, and I tell Start with interviews. If that is what's going to get your airplane in the air, so to speak-that's the metaphor I use in my program-then go for it. Do that. Kind of use that as like training wheels and get comfortable. Get down the equipment, the editing process, all of that, and then you can transition into doing solo episodes, interspersing them in. ready. It's not something that has to be. You know, oh, you can only do 10 interviews and then you have to switch type of thing.

16:37 It's very much up to the For solo content, I'm a scripter, and so I write out a script for all of my solo episodes. I don't necessarily recommend that as a technique because it is a whole lot of work, yeah, and it takes a lot of practice and energy, performance energy, to make it sound like it's not scripted, but that is just the method that works best for me for solo content. Let me just Marc Ronick: jump in and say, like, I think that there is a place for that, right? Like, because, and I'm saying this because I know on my show in the mornings I often try to discourage people from using Julia, you've learned, and it lot of energy. But you've learned how to deliver those scripts in a way that doesn't feel scripted, right? So there is a time and a place, and I just wanted to call that out.

17:36 Like, if you're going to do But understand, it does require some time, effort, and a little bit of talent. Julia Levine: Absolutely, and I credit my ability to, for the most part, not sound scripted. I mean, of course, I am my own worst critic, and I'm like, oh, I can tell, you know, I can pick up on the scriptedness there. can't tell that I'm scripted, that I spent 12 years reading which books are essentially scripts, and I essentially had to put on a performance, you know, five six times a day, every day for 12 years, and you know, trying to keep a group of five year olds entertained and like do the voices and you know all the different things, making it interesting and not sound robotic. Just reading a book to them, so I have that background which I bring to the table, which I think really is an asset for me in that aspect.

18:37 But not obviously, not everyone has that. Yeah, and I will also say that it is a goal of mine to become unscripted, working from an outline or just kind of riffing at some point in time. in my head too much. I don't love you know being the center of attention. I'm an introvert, and I have some social anxiety, and so like, I just get into my head too much. And obviously, talking here to you, I'm not scripted. I'm able to have a conversation, but it's kind of the crutch that I have needed up until this point. And again, I'm actively working on doing more of these opportunities to practice this skill, flex this muscle to become unscripted, but I'm not beating myself up in the process.

19:30 This is what's working for me right now, and able to successfully get content out. accommodation that I need right now, and that's what I'm working with. Marc Ronick: Very cool. And sorry to have interrupted you there, but all right. So listen, we have even on this very show shared one particular podcast SEO strategy that's worked well. It's worked particularly well We know it's worked well. For others, and that particular strategy is adding to in your author field, adding in your podcast title field, extra words that speak to your search engine optimization. So, for example, in Jason's podcast author field, he has his name, and then it says podcast strategist and maybe something else along the lines, and I have something similar, and that tends to help.

20:26 We've seen that work really well for Jason, literally within a day. Sid Meadows, who is a part of the EPC community, he had a lot of success with it within a day as well. So my question to you is: Do you have any insider tips that we could apply today that could help us with our SEO? Julia Levine: Yes, absolutely. So the process that I am going to teach in my presentation at EPC is a three-step process, and so while I can't give away the whole thing here, I will tell you that the three steps are to first pick your keywords, second put them in strategic places, and then three put them in those places again and again. The fields that are you know that you do every week, and so that's the three step process.

21:18 And so, in terms of where to put those words. Step two, that is absolutely the author field. Jason and I talked about this on his podcast, and he was saying maybe it was a coincidence. I put my title in there with the coincidence. That was the algorithm at work, and so every podcast player has their own algorithm, and so you know they have different preferences and different things. But for Apple specifically, they have said that the three fields that they most heavily weight in the search results are the show title, the author field, the creator field, and the episode titles, and so those are the three places that you want to put your keywords.

22:13 And again, that's step one of the process is figuring out what those keywords are, which I'll talk more about in my presentation at EPC. So you got to be there to learn that part. Marc Ronick: empoweredpodcasting.com Julia Levine: Yes, shameless plug. Jason: Tickets go upjuly 15. Get them today. Julia Levine: Yeah, and so places, and two of those places, field, are completely set it and You put the keywords in those places, and you don't have to touch it again. The episode title, obviously, you have to do that every week, and there's some nuance there with making it clickable and appealing to the human, but also to the algorithm and that kind of thing.

22:55 So that one's a little bit trickier. But those are the three key places, and author is definitely one of them. Jason: It's always important to point this out, and I know that Julia and I talked about this on together today to talk about these things, that's what's working today. There is always that possibility that even by time we finish this live stream, they they change something on us and move the goalpost. So depending on when you hear this, maybe that's not still the case. Like you find this live stream in some archive five years from now, but I'm enamored by this. I love that. Like again, for me, it was just seeing it work, and then saying, My biggest focus, and I'm sure Julia, you've worked with people that have had this same friendly show notes and making ultimately drove SEO When in reality, the biggest podcast engine or podcast player on the planet didn't give a crap, wasn't doing anything with that. So that to me, I immediately dialed it back from there. And I know I I had told you the story about how I had connected with someone a few years ago who told me to max out and that would help with SEO.

24:15 that because I just envisioned app and scrolling, and then they didn't listen to the So much to focus on this, but really, when you think about it, even though there's a lot to focus on, there's just these few subtle points that, if you pay attention to them, you're going to help your show tremendously. Julia Levine: Absolutely, and You know, there are some Apple and Spotify. Spotify tends to care more about descriptions and things like that, but even they don't heavily weight the show notes, the episode-specific description section, and so I absolutely totally disagree with I talked to. This on your show of that just doesn't make a lot of sense, and we want to think about the human first, and think about what do they need in the show notes, and usually that is incentive to press play, a get in the episode, why it's reference information of what that maybe they missed because something to follow up on that I Jason: want to throw this out to all of you, and then we'll switch gears and talk a little But this is just something that I've been thinking about, and I don't know if this would have any impact on SEO.

25:41 But my thinking was this: If you notice, when you pull up a podcast in your podcast player, I'm thinking of Apple Podcasts specifically because that's the one I use. You get the first sentence of the show notes. Do you feel that is a good space or a good spot that to throw in maybe your best hook? Maybe your title might be your better hook, but like the first line. This is just something I'm spitballing with. I'm wondering if this would play they're going to experience when they press play, and ultimately, press that play button, opening that to the floor?

26:22 Marc Ronick: So you're actually asking more from a human perspective versus how it's Yeah, I mean, look, I would agree with that, and it's actually making me rethink a little bit about what I'm doing right now with our show notes. But yeah, I would say that is your next hook, like you put it, secondary hook, and I think that's really valuable space. And going back to another point you made earlier, I don't think people are scrolling through pages and pages of show notes. So you might as well get the most valuable piece of information you can at the very top for them to really get them to get hooked in, if you will. That's my thought. My thinking Jason: is if they're not going to look at show notes at all, or maybe they don't reference the show notes until they're prompted to while listening to the show.

27:06 Like, hey, there's a link in the show notes. Please click that, and you're going to get 20% off your ticket for EPC. But in the whole process of cover grabbed my attention when I was scrolling. I liked the name of the show. The title jumped out at me. Now I've got this secondary line that says, "Okay, this is just another piece of information. This is enough for me to press play. Something I want to play with. I'm not again. I don't even know if I'd be able to tell. It's probably hard to say that. Oh yeah, that's what drove more listenership. But it seems like it's something we could all capitalize on. That's pretty enough real estate. Marc Ronick: Longworth in the chat said, "Please don't start your show notes with in this episode. Yeah, and and that actually reminded me. Okay, I do actually lead with some kind of secondary hook first, and then I follow that up. I do follow it up usually with something like in this episode, but I don't like to start it that way either. That makes sense.

28:00 And by the way, I'm supposed to pass along a note to you, Julia. BC Babbles in the YouTube chat says he loves your background. Wanted you to know that. Julia Levine: Oh, thanks so I appreciate that. Got to keep it fun around here. Marc Ronick: Yeah. So, what are your thoughts as far as Jason's question goes, Julia? Julia Levine: I agree with what you said, Mark, and I think that it would really be interesting. I don't know if there's people in the chat that want to chime in, but I'm curious how many podcast listeners, when they are is like their regular routine, but a show finding a new show, they have an information need. They're searching, looking through. I'm wondering how many people look at that first sentence or click into the show notes to read more before they press press play.

28:53 I'd be really curious to know how many people do that. I typically go by mostly the title, Marc Ronick: yeah. Julia Levine: And if they have a need. Sometimes, if it's not so great of a title, I will click into the episode description for here? Is this what I'm looking for? Is this going to meet my need? And I absolutely agree with Jennifer. The cardinal sin is to start your show notes within this episode, and so that is completely banned in my world. You can start the second sentence just for Jason: clarification. Why Julia Levine: not the first one? Jason: Well, let's put that out there.

29:34 Why is that? Julia Levine: Absolutely. So it's because a it doesn't really give any value; it takes valuable space away from a hook that you could put there that would influence someone to press play. And then also, if you're in your podcast player and you're looking at the list of each episode is going to look The beginning, so episode 20 in this episode, episode 19 in this episode, and so especially if you're on a phone where you have very little, very few characters displayed, that phrase in this episode eats up so much valuable space.

30:18 Marc Ronick: Makes sense. Yeah, does that makes a lot of sense. Okay, so and Julie, Rich: feel like I just got scolded. Marc Ronick: Oh, really? Totally. I Jason: could be guilty of this have been. Oh, Marc Ronick: of course. Jason: You know, of course. This is how we learn and grow. Julia Levine: All Marc Ronick: right. On the we, I want to pause, but on the other side of this, I do want you to respond, Julia, to just show notes in general, how serious do we need to be taking them as podcasters as far as SEO goes? And I mean, you've alluded a little bit to it, but I just want to get a little more of your take on that. And first, Jason, you alluded a moment ago when you slipped that in there that prices for EPC are going up soon, so I was curious if you would just share a little bit more about that. What are they going up to, and when are they going up again? Jason: Okay, this is an extremely important message this week, and I know that at the end remind you. So this is the last live reminder that you get that They go from 269 to 299 That that we have on our tickets. But why spend the extra $30 Go get them now. Jump over to empoweredpodcasting.com Find one of the many buttons that says "Buy your tickets. And do we want to give a code, guys? Marc Ronick: Yeah.

31:42 Well, we can give all three of our codes and let people decide which one they want to support. It's going to be all the same except for our first name. So it's either EPC Mark 20, Mark spelled with a C, EPC Jason 20, or EPC Rich 20. Pick your poison and get 20% off Or I'll tell you what I'm gonna I'm gonna one up us. I'm gonna one up that code our new affiliates. Oh, that's right. I would say find Julia and find her affiliate link. Julia Levine: You can go to Ronick: Nice, nice. Made it nice and easy. I love that. Cool. Jason: Go. Also 20% right?

32:24 Julia Levine: Yes. Also 20% There it is. Marc Ronick: There. Now they can really pick their poison, and we're gonna all the three of us are gonna encourage. If you're gonna go get it, go use Julia's link. Let's support Julia a little bit here because that is what our creator programs, our affiliate programs are all about. It's really yes, sure. We're not trying to hide Yeah, it does help the conference itself, but really, the initiative here is to help our community. Whether it's to make some more money, whether it's to get more butts in seats so that they can come see their favorite speaker. That's why we're doing all these things. So, yeah, please support our community. Jason: Yeah, we know how much value is packed into that room because we've been there, we've experienced it, and we want more people to see that and feel it in person. So this is a tremendous way for us to incentivize our community members to spread the word. Like Mark said, get more people in the room. You're coming to see your favorite speakers, but I guarantee you're going to find somebody else that has something of interest for you, and on top of that, all the networking you get to do-it's a weekend you don't want to miss. Hottest weekend of the summer, boys and girls, Marc Ronick: and it could be literally the hottest weekend. That is Jason: probably well.

33:31 I don't know if last week was a show, but well, I think that this program is a great, like I said, a great way for our community members to not only monetize their efforts, but to help get more people's eyes on empowered podcasting-not just the conference itself, but the brand as a whole. We want to expand and do more things like we do here with our live stream, providing that education, giving our members inside access, and this is a great way for that to all come together. So, if there's anybody out there that's listening or watching that hasn't had an opportunity to learn about the affiliate program, just reach out to us. We're happy to share the information, and if you find it to your liking, we'll get you started. Marc Ronick: Yeah, and you can go to empoweredpodcasting.com to do that.

34:13 And we've just added a contact us section on the website. Something that I realized this morning: why don't we have that on our website, so now you can go do that. Yes, go do that and inquire if you'd like to be a part of any of these different programs that And we have some more show to do here, so don't go anywhere yet. So let's go back to that question, Julie, and then we're going to ask you a little bit about your involvement, more about your involvement here with Empowered Podcasting. So yeah, how important, how serious should we be taking our show notes section itself as far as SEO is concerned? Julia Levine: Not super seriously, to be honest. At least that's my approach, my philosophy. So I think your show notes need to have a couple key things in them.

34:56 I think you need to have a brief and. I'm talking like two, three sentences. Brief description of kind of what's in the episode. Additional context. Don't give everything away in there. I've seen some show notes where they're like, in this episode, we tell you this and this. So I'm like, why do I need to listen to the episode then? Because you just told me. Marc Ronick: Yep. Julia Levine: So give a nice curiosity, but let them know why and so that's your first component. Your second component is anything that you have referenced in the episode. So if you mentioned a particular study or a link for them to go to, make sure those are in your show notes. We know podcasters are multitasking, and so they need a third, have some contact connect with you, take a next with you on a social platform, I have gotten a couple emails from people who said, you know, I listened to several podcasts about podcasting.

36:01 I have a question, and I chose to contact you because you're the only one who had your email in the show notes. And I was like, "Oh, I didn't even didn't even occur to me that other people might not do that. So those are the three about the episode, reference information. Marc Ronick: How many would you know if I asked you this question? I'm curious. How many characters, on average, would you say you use? Because, like Jason said, he was once advised use all 4000 characters. What do you have an idea? Like, do you keep it that tight? Julia Levine: I mean, you can go for solopreneurs, and check out my show notes.

36:41 They're pretty short. I'd say I don't know character limits off top my head, but I'd say maybe 500 characters. Yeah, like and I spend maybe 510 minutes doing that section. Depends on how hard it is to come up with that hook sentence. Sometimes it writes itself. Sometimes it needs a little thinking. But that's the part I do, and then the rest is just there each week. So the whole thing is not very much at all. Can I throw Jason: this out there, you guys? more rhetorical than anything, Buzzsprout right now gives you I think I can't remember the exact number, and as we're talking about, that's a lot. Why do they give you so much? It feels like a like they're trying to trick you, right?

37:25 Like here's all this space. Write a book, and then we're just overthinking it in a lot of in a lot of scenarios. I think Marc Ronick: that's a really good point. Yeah, why did they give us so much space? There was probably a time where a lot of podcasters felt like they didn't have enough space. I don't know, and so they're just giving us more. Yeah, I don't know. Jason: I mean, and it's entirely predicated on more words versus the audio before the medium became more nuanced. I mean, I could be completely wrong too. I don't know. Can I ask Rich: another silly question, real quick? Yeah, Marc Ronick: but I feel like Julia was going to chime in on that one. Oh, I was Julia Levine: just going to say that you know things are changing on a day by day basis, as we pointed out a few minutes ago. What we're saying is accurate as of today, but it might not be accurate in an hour or a week or a month. And so maybe they just decided to go bigger and say we'd rather have more space if that becomes a best practice, and then leave it at that.

38:24 But I don't know. We got to get Tom Rossi in and ask him. Marc Ronick: That's right. By the way, stick around if you're still here and listening. We're gonna also. I know we just told you how you can get 20% off. while how you can get free So stick around for that. And Rich, you had something. Rich: I did a quick question Google SEO and podcast SEO. When you're doing like Google SEO, you're supposed to keep You're like you're not supposed to repeat, you know, the same content in one article to another article, but when it comes to podcast SEO, like you had mentioned, Julia, that some of the information at the bottom could be, you know, your email address and links and things of that nature.

39:14 So my question is, do you get dinged for having that same content at the bottom, repeated between episodes, or do you not get dinged for having like, you know what I'm saying? Like every episode has the same footer information. We'll call it where it's like your contact information, your links for socials and stuff like that. Does that make sense? Julia Levine: Yeah, I understand negative impact, at least not to the extent of my knowledge. And I think that because podcast player SEO works differently than Google SEO, that it would make sense that it doesn't ding you because the podcast player algorithm is looking for repetition. It's looking for consent.

40:00 Consistency. It's looking for emphasis and expertise, and so I mean I don't information is making any difference in there, but the player algorithm is looking for wow. This person talks about podcasting in every single one of their episodes. podcasting, we should probably it's highly relevant, and so cumulative, and so the more the algorithm is. I should say, the more content you have about the same topic, Marc Ronick: yeah, the Julia Levine: happier the algorithm is, and obviously this probably goes without saying, but we want to have different facets within our topic. But we always want to be talking about our core topic so that the algorithm learns.

40:53 Like that is what this show is about. Jason: One other thing I wanted to ask too, because it's something I've noticed more. My big keywords, podcasting and podcasting strategy, obviously baked right into the title of my show. Something I've noticed happening more frequently now, and it's a very good thing when I search those keyword terms to see where I'm appearing. It's not just in the show. Like if someone's searching for shows, my podcast has moved up significantly since I did my rebrand, but I've got multiple episodes that are appearing in the episode tab, and that's something I feel might get overlooked by some people that you're only trying to rank and get visible for your actual show as a whole.

41:36 But getting relevant terms, and I think what's really added to that is I started doing a weekly show where it's a five-minute answer a specific the podcasting space. So I know people are looking for answers to that question. Those ones are starting to show up more, but I could give in search. I could see five or six of my episodes for those keyword terms. Is there anything specific that we haven't talked about that would drive that, or have we already covered the basics that would help someone rank in that respect as well? Julia Levine: So we've already covered the basics that would help someone rank in that area. that's a good thing to point out beginners, and so we are one, and so we're talking about what their core topic is and how to get their show in the They're just the show as a whole, but the search results do break it into shows and episodes.

42:32 And so, yes, we absolutely are going to be showing up in that area as well, as long as we are following those best practices that we talked about of putting the keyword in the strategic places, episode titles specifically is important to show up in the episodes area. And I also have to say, Jason, did you steal my idea? I do the Friday five minute episode. Jason: Oh, did I? No, I honestly the idea was this funny you say that because I had thought of the of doing that as an idea, and then we were on one of the morning shows, and Ralph brought it up, and I was like, "Ralph, did you steal my idea? I was just about to roll this out.

43:14 It's not just one person thinking of this really good idea here. Julia Levine: Yes, apparently we Yes, yes, absolutely Jason: right. I think Marc Ronick: so. Or the universe is demanding that somebody put this damn show on already. Who's going to heed the call? Jason: I'll have to start doing two a week. Pull on Andy Dufresne. I want things done. week. Marc Ronick: Julia, I want to ask you a little bit about the conference itself from your perspective, because we share ours all the time. Which, by the way, all three of us will be on the podcasting morning show tomorrow morning, Thursday, talking all about our experience and how we got to where we are today. But with you, I want to know more about you and how you got to where you are with this What first attracted you to empowered podcasting, and what are you most looking forward to this year coming up?

44:06 Julia Levine: Yeah, so here's like have some type of filter. you, I applied to speak at I didn't know anything about the I was just trying to get more visibility, and I'm like, "Hey, here's a podcasting conference. I would love to speak at a podcasting conference because this is what I do: get myself in front of some podcasters and apply to speak and so, I applied to speak, wasn't selected, totally cool, but as like a consolation prize, I got 50% off my ticket or something like that. So I bought my ticket and was like, "Well, you know, I'll go and and see what this conference is all about.

44:51 And then when it came time to go to the conference, I was like, "Introvert mode. I don't want to go to this. And it was literally like a 24 hour before decision of am I actually going to. Go to this? Am I not? And I had maybe listened to podcasting morning show chat back then, you know, once or twice, but I really didn't know anything about what empowered podcasting was all about, what your mission was, any of that stuff. So it was a last minute decision. I was like, you know what? This isn't going to hurt anything. It could be a good opportunity for me. Let me just go get out of my comfort zone and just do this.

45:32 And I am so so glad that I did because it's one of the best conferences I have ever attended in the podcasting realm. But I attended conferences all the time as a teacher, you know tech conferences, library conferences, and it's just one intimate conferences that I have And that that 20-four hour window was like me not being selected as a speaker and getting the 50% off, like that, is what spurred the whole thing. And it was just, it was meant to work out that way. And I'm so so thankful that it did. It was an amazing experience. Jason: Who was the son of a that So embarrassing with that Jason: guy.

46:18 Marc Ronick: We got Julia Levine: a lot more credibility over the last year, so I'm sorry, Julia. Jason: If you saw the list of to submit, oh, I believe it's Again, like I've always told everybody, we want that process to be hard. We want as many great people submitting, and it gives us even if we can't choose you for that specific year. I know for my, I'm putting a lot of people on file in my head. Like, okay, if they're coming back next year, they're We want them. We want to make sure we're continuing to put great people on in the spotlight. So, yeah, you're on this year. Julia Levine: I don't envy your job, and I am so thankful to be a presenter this year because of I think I wouldn't have were my first time attending and I wouldn't have kind of known the vibe and all of that stuff. So I'm really glad that it worked out this way and that I was able to be an attendee first and now return as a speaker. So Marc Ronick: relatable too, because and Jason, I know you could speak to this too, but I think a lot of us, when we apply to speak at these different conferences for the first time, and then we get denied, we a lot Like, I was very rational. Jason: No, I felt I handled it very well. Marc Ronick: Oh yeah, sure you did. But yeah, so that's the thing is that, like, I appreciate you sharing this, Julia, because you could have just given up on it altogether, and I think both you and the community would have lost out on a lot of different

47:51 things. Both being a part of the having you as a part of the community and all this knowledge that you can share with us now, and sometimes it is a little bit of a courtship between the speaker and the event, right? We got to get to know you, and sometimes it's hard to select people that we've never met, we've never talked to for the first time. And I think a lot of conferences I think that's why podcast movement this year has decided to open up some of the speaker selection to the podcast community, and they're letting people vote on it, right? For that very reason, because they, I'm sure they know they don't know everybody, so it's hard to do that. So I just, I really, and I thank you too for sharing that and being so honest about it. And yeah, I'm grateful that you're coming back this year. Julia Levine: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. Seeing the people again that are new people because the community that you all carefully curate is just the best group of people.

48:56 Marc Ronick: Oh, thank you, All right, any other questions for Julia? I know we have a couple other things, including some giveaways Other questions for Julia? You guys good? Jason: I'm good, Julia. Again, thank you for all that. I'm sorry, Richard. If you got something, I know I'm good. I just want to thank you for joining us. This is always informative. Marc Ronick: Yeah, pleasure. Julia Levine: Thank you. Marc Ronick: So let me, since No, we have a giveaway we have to share too. But since I teased it, I'll just lead off and then I'll let you gentlemen chime in too. But we had some volunteers for the conference have to pull out unexpectedly, unforeseen circumstances. They couldn't make it work, so we have now a total of around six.

49:39 You know, more the merrier, really. But we want to try to fill another six spots for volunteers, and in return, we will give you a free ticket. You will have full access to the event. You'll all we'll ask is occasionally we may have to pull you away to help us with certain things, responsibilities going on, but we want to. Give you that ticket, let you enjoy the conference, get to know this awesome community, as Julia had put it. And all you got to do is say, "Yeah, I want in on this, and we'll sit down and talk to and then hand you your free us in August. Any other, any else, anything's? Let me try to get my words in order here. Any other things you guys want to add? Yeah, and you're not kidding with the type of people. I mean, we have everything from the new podcaster to podcast Hall of Famers.

50:31 So you are literally going to get the full gamut of different types of content creators and be able to learn from them, have Rich. with some really impressive Absolutely, Jason: 100. Marc Ronick: Yeah, absolutely. And just to do that again, it's empoweredpodcasting.com Just do the contact us form and let us know you're interested in volunteering. Go ahead, Rich. Rich is looking right now. Oh, you're looking in the chat. Yes, yeah, I've had that multiple times happen at different conferences. Yep, beautiful.

51:12 sponsors that are helping us event even happens. So our title sponsor is the content creators accountant? Big shout out to Ralph. We got Bourbon Barrel Podcasting. Jennifer's been in the chat the entire afternoon or the the entire Rich: show. Jennifer, thank you for helping us be a successful event. Maker's Machine. We talked to Shay and Adam last week. Also, MoPod will be sponsoring one of our pre-party events. Moving on to our creator partners, we got the Trend Report podcast, Mozan Wellness, the podcast teacher. There she is right now. We've been talking to Julia the entire time.

51:53 Glad to have you as one of our Also, success on social Volt amplified, and Cassiano I know BC's been in the chat the entire time. Grateful to have you both as our creator partners, and then some of our in-kind partners as well. Want to shout out Podfest, also Home Mastery Studio, and Pod Glue. Our friend Janaid, who's going to be running the AV? Shouts out to Pod News and Pod Page, Webby AI, Military Creator Con, and Earbuds Podcast Collective, and then also the Podcast Professionals Association. We truly appreciate every single one of you. Thank you for making EPC three a success before we even get to the venue, and if you are watching right now, you want a every week after that, and you be a part of the community in a real official way.

52:59 Reach out to me. We'd love to have you as a sponsor. We'll have that conversation. So that's my piece. I appreciate Marc Ronick: awesome. Thank you, Rich. And no show next week. We are back july 22 Jessica Schiller is joining us for awesome conversation. Looking forward to that. And before we go, Jason, do you want to share a little bit about the giveaway we're doing. Jason: Yeah, as I said, I should So last week I had the visual, but as you know or may not know, when you purchase your ticket to Empowered Podcasting to the Empowered Podcasting Conference, you are automatically entered to win a brand new Shure MV Seven Plus microphone. So get your ticket.

53:40 You're getting access to all of this incredible information and networking, and just like we said, the hottest weekend of the summer is happening August 21st through 23rd. Just for showing up, you're going to get a chance to win a brand new Shure MV7 Plus So one last time@poweredpodcasting.com get your ticket. Actually, well, Julia, share your link. Julia Levine: Yeah, it's thepodcastteacher.com/epc and then you'll just put in the generic code of EPC 20 to get your 20% off. Jason: There you go. So if you do that before july 15, you'll take advantage of the savings. Ticket prices will go up to 299 on july 15.

54:21 That will be the last price increase, but we'd like you to take advantage of this now. Get your tickets. If the last hour hasn't convinced you to join us in Charlotte, go back and listen to some of the past episodes because one of them is damn sure going to make you want to join us. But we're looking forward to having a great weekend. And again, empowered podcasting. I'm sorry. Forget I said anything. Get your ticket from Julia's link. Awesome. Marc Ronick: Thank you. Well, Julia, thank you again, Rich, Jason, Jason. Thank you for taking the lead today. Appreciate you. We are, like I said, not back next week. We are back july 22 With an all new empowered podcasting live, come join us, and of as Jason said, for that hottest weekend of the summer.

55:09 So until then, make it a great day, everybody. Take care.