516. How Niche Podcasts Win With Smaller Audiences

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Marc Ronick: Good morning

podcasters.

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Today is Wednesday, May the
13th, 2026 and today, AI


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podcasts are raising big
questions about trust.

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Video is
feeling more
intimidating than ever, and

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Podcast Awards might
not be
the growth boost creators are

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hoping for.
So if you're
listening live on

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clubhouse, hit the share button
top right hand
side of the

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screen and share it however
clubhouse lets you.

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And
if you're catching us via
podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn, etc,

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00:00:34,389 --> 00:00:37,579

please share this episode with
a fellow podcaster.

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And now give
us about 30
seconds, and we'll get things

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rolling.
Thanks for
being here.

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The podcasting Morning Show is
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Business behind their content.
Good morning again.


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Podcasting morning show.
Thank you for being here, and I

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emphasize show, because I'm
still getting used to saying it

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that way.
I am your host, Mark ronick, and

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currently on stage
with me.
We have Sid Meadows.

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Ralph Estep, DR Fay, Jonathan

Howard, Junaid Ahmed is here as

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well, and I think I got

everybody.

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Yes, I did okay, because I have
to look in both
places, both

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on clubhouse and on Riverside.
That's where, that's
what we

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use to stream this show to
YouTube and elsewhere.

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And
before we get into today's
topics, want to quickly remind


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you that later today, 1pm
Eastern Time, empowered


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podcasting, live returns.
It's our live stream show.

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We don't
do it as a podcast.
We only do it as a live stream.

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00:02:08,175 --> 00:02:10,905
And today
we have one of our
events.

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Creator partners, Sid meadows,

also co host here of the morning

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show.
We'll dig into Sid's
success,

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monetizing his podcast in 2026
and his new private
podcast

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project that we haven't talked
about at all here really
yet.

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And of course, we'll also just
dig into some of his


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experiences as a podcaster, and
of course, his experience at


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empowered podcasting.
So join us at podcasting morning

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show.com/epc.
Live.

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So we're going to dig right into
today's
news, because normally

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news takes up quite a bit of the

hour.

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And also, Ralph, I'm just going
to tell you right now have
the

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Creator business bite.
Sound bite handy, because it

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keeps
disappearing from my
board, and I don't understand

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why we're not
getting to it
quite yet, but I'm just giving

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you that
forewarning.
The way I do like to start this

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show, particularly
news and
comment, is with some data for

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you, and I have some
new data
also to share with you.

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But first, this comes from

podcasting, podcast Business

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Journal, and this is a quote

that they share about what

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active podcasts are, and then

we'll tell you how many of those

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podcasts are actually putting

out.

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Podcasts.
A helpful number to understand

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the amount of
podcasts being
created is the total number of

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quote, unquote,
active
podcasts.

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These are podcasts that still
are being
updated and

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therefore actively marketing
themselves.

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If you're
making podcast
episodes, you might consider

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this number to be
your
competition, rather than that

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big overall, 4.6 million

podcasts that the podcast index

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has on record with that total

podcasts that were updated over

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this past week were 197,127 so

that's actually down a little

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over 3% from the previous week.


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And if you're curious, over the
last 30 days, 370,096 podcasts


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updated, which is up overall 2%
from the previous month.

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Now I
said that I have some
other data for you.

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This is more or less an

article, but I think one that

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fits this category quite well.

Spotify wins on watch time.

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YouTube wins on Discovery.
This
comes from pod news.

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Spotify may be giving podcasters
deeper
consumption than

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YouTube according to new data
from pod
stock.

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So it's pod News reported it.
Pod stock put out this data.


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Their analysis found that a
single Spotify stream generates

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about 1.5 times more
consumption time than a YouTube

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view of the
same Podcast
Episode I.

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Should say.
So here's the twist,
YouTube

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discovery power and spotify's
own discovery spikes
can bring

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in more casual samplers or
audiences, which may
drag down

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average time spent, even when
overall reach is
growing.

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So here are some details.
First, pod stock
analyzed

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1000s of full length video
podcast episodes published
on

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both Spotify and YouTube, and it
was all within that same


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release time window.
In 95% of those episodes,

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Spotify
listeners spent more
time with the same podcast

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content than
YouTube viewers.
Pod stock says that this may

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make Spotify
streams a
stronger signal of audience

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engagement, especially
of
advertisers looking beyond raw

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views, which I hope they
are.
The data also shows a classic

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growth trade off when
episodes
reach broader less familiar

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audiences, average time
spent
per view or stream often drops

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in the 5% of cases where

YouTube beat Spotify on

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consumption time pod stock says
many of those episodes had

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unusually strong discovery

spikes on Spotify, bringing in

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lots of new samplers.
And we're
saying samplers

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because it doesn't mean that
they've locked
in to your show

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or a podcast, it means that they
the podcast
captured their

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attention in some way, shape or
form, and somebody
pressed

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play.
Doesn't mean they listened for

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long periods of
time.
So the big takeaway for

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podcasters is that one platform
metric rarely tells the whole

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story.
Reach, watch, time,


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Completion, discovery and
audience intent, all need to be

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looked at together and then for
indie creators, this is another

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reminder that YouTube and
Spotify may serve different


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jobs.
YouTube can help people find

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you, and what this report

shows anyway is that Spotify may

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be where deeper podcast

consumption actually happens.

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So I thought that was good info,

because we've talked so much

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about how Spotify and now Apple
are trying to come and get into

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this video game, compete with

YouTube.

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And I just think I don't know.
My question for you
guys is,

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would you rather have fewer
people spending more time
with

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your episode, or more people
sample it for a shorter
amount

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of time?
Right?

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And I know in some ways that
this
might seem like an

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obvious question, but or an
obvious
answer to the

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question, but I think that this
is something
that we should

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stop and pause and think about
for a second.

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So
Ralph, what say you Ralph
Estep Jr: I have a
question

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first, because I'm not a Spotify
user.

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I know if you
don't subscribe
to YouTube and you put your

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phone in your
pocket, it stops
playing.

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But what does Spotify do in that

same scenario?

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Marc Ronick: So first, I will

say that YouTube does that, but

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if you pay for their premium

service, Ralph Estep Jr: does

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it?
Marc Ronick: You can actually


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turn it off and put it in your
pocket.

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Ralph Estep Jr: I do that all

the time on YouTube, but I

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didn't know how Spotify played

out, because I think there might

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be a little bias in their data.
Marc Ronick: Oh yeah, why is


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that?
Ralph Estep Jr: Because if


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Spotify doesn't do the exact
same thing that YouTube does, so

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is there inherent bias in
that?

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If I'm on Spotify and I'm

listening to that and I set my

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phone down, or I put it in my

pocket, it keeps playing, which

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is going to roll that data

forward as compared to those non

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subscribers on YouTube.
I'm not
saying that's the

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issue, right?
It's just, I will tell you


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personally, like, I don't get a
lot of traction on Spotify, so


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for me, that's the hard part.
That's the hard part to I don't

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say I don't believe it, but
that's the hard part to believe.

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Now to get back to your

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question, I don't know.
It
depends, like, like, sort

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of like Cindy said spray and
pray.


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Or do you want active, engaged
listeners that are going to buy

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your products and services and
tell other people about your


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show?
That's the trade off, isn't it?

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Mark, Marc Ronick: yeah, it is.
That
is the trade off.

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And, yeah, I don't know.
I feel like with
Spotify.

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Now I also pay for Spotify, so I
might not be the
best person

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to ask that, because I feel like
with Spotify, yes, I
can turn

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it, I can put the phone on sleep
mode, and I can still
hear it

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playing so, and I don't know if
that's making you
cringe,

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Ralph, because it's it means
that I'm paying for
multiple

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subscriptions to things.
Ralph Estep Jr: No, if, hey, if

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it serves you, my friend, I
don't understand why people


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don't pay for YouTube to me to
not have to watch commercials.


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It makes no sense to me, because
my time is worth a lot more than

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the 13.
I could be $100 D.R.

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Fay: a month.
It wouldn't
because paying for

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it, I Ralph Estep Jr: agree,
because
we don't think about

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our opportunity cost of our
time.


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And as much as I'm a numbers
guy, your time is worth money as

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well.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, with me.

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I
actually noticed that when I
was on my road trip this past


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weekend, when Amy was playing
podcasts through YouTube, it was

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driving me nuts.
It was like, every five to 10

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minutes, a
commercial would
interrupt the show, and I just

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couldn't stand
it.
I was like, why aren't we

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listening with my YouTube

account?

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We need to do that.
We didn't for whatever reason.

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But
yeah, it's annoying and
worth, well worth the $13 a

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month.
I
can't begin to stress that

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enough.
If you are privileged
enough

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to be able to afford that, by
all means, I encourage
you to

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do that.
Sid had something, and then

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Janae did
too.
Go ahead.

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Sid, good morning.
Sid Meadows: Good morning


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everybody.
And you're actually hitting on

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the topic I wanted to
ask
about so does Spotify have all

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the ads in there?
Because I
don't watch on I

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don't watch podcasts, but I if I
did, I
mean, I'm not watching

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YouTube or whatever Spotify.
But does
Spotify have ads?

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Marc Ronick: Spotify does if you

are not paying for it, if

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you're using the free service.
Sid Meadows: Are there?

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Are they
as many ads as it is
filtered, Marc Ronick: it can be

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pretty
obnoxious sometimes.
Yes, okay, because Sid Meadows:

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I just was
wondering if that
was the difference, right, if

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people
were watching on
Spotify, because there was

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either no ads
or less ads,
because, as you said, they are

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quite annoying.

Yeah.

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So that was more about just
curiosity, Marc Ronick: yep,

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00:10:54,967 --> 00:10:56,341
yep.
I think
when we're comparing

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the two free versions, I think
they're
very similar as far as

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commercial usage for sure, and
Sid Meadows: I would answer, I


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would answer the question.
I would answer the question real

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quick.
I would prefer what your

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00:11:07,620 --> 00:11:11,768
question was, just one

additional engaged listener.

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If I get somebody to come and

engage with my show, to stay and

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to listen and then subscribe and

become part of my community,

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or become part of my ecosystem.


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That's what I would Marc Ronick:
prefer, very cool.


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And this is coming from a guy
who sells ad time on his


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podcast.
So there's something to be said

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about that.
Yeah, Sid Meadows: cool.

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00:11:31,444 --> 00:11:32,491
Let's correct
that.
Let's correct that.

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I do not sell ad time.
Marc Ronick: Okay, sorry, I'm


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00:11:35,318 --> 00:11:36,800
using radio Sid Meadows:
language.

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00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:37,760
Have
spots?
Yeah?

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Marc Ronick: That's just a

default mode.

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00:11:40,732 --> 00:11:43,728
I think, yeah, that's fair.
Sid, and I
appreciate the

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correction.
Jonathan, I'm coming to you in a

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00:11:45,472 --> 00:11:48,004

second because I did promise I
was going to go to Junaid, but I

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00:11:48,004 --> 00:11:50,555

want to talk to you about your
comment in the chat, and then


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00:11:50,563 --> 00:11:53,200
we'll keep things moving here
with more news and comment.

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00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,780
But
first Junaid, go for it.
Good morning.

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00:11:56,260 --> 00:11:59,500
Junaid: Good morning, because

Spotify comes from the audio

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world.
It doesn't matter if you
have

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00:12:01,537 --> 00:12:04,650
the screen locked or unlocked,
they're still going to
count

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00:12:04,650 --> 00:12:09,048
it as a stream or a download.
Same thing with Apple
podcast,

220
00:12:09,048 --> 00:12:12,504
it's streaming.
So I think that accurate stats

221
00:12:12,504 --> 00:12:16,480
that
day, because after all,
most people that are listening

222
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,144
to an
podcast or on either of
the platforms, they are not

223
00:12:20,144 --> 00:12:23,448
looking
at their phone because
they're listening to an audio

224
00:12:23,448 --> 00:12:25,739
right?
So
think about that, and

225
00:12:25,739 --> 00:12:29,320
Spotify and Apple both have the
ability
to switch from video

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00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,710
to audio and audio to video, so
when you
lock that screen, the

227
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:36,397
audio continues to play, and you
can
go about your business,

228
00:12:36,397 --> 00:12:40,188
making chicken or whatever.
Marc Ronick: Thank you.

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00:12:40,188 --> 00:12:42,841
Junaid,
by the way, John in
the chat says, What's the

230
00:12:42,841 --> 00:12:44,975
difference
between sponsors
and selling ad time?

231
00:12:44,975 --> 00:12:46,450
Isn't it the same?
John?

232
00:12:46,450 --> 00:12:48,780
I
think by definition, yes, it
probably is.

233
00:12:48,780 --> 00:12:51,300
And I think Sid
would probably
agree with me.

234
00:12:51,300 --> 00:12:54,627
I think it's a mindset thing.
I
think it's just the way that

235
00:12:54,627 --> 00:12:58,980
we approach those sponsors,
those
advertisers, and the way

236
00:12:58,980 --> 00:13:02,108
we approach that situation.
Yes,
Sid is agreeing with me

237
00:13:02,108 --> 00:13:04,010
there.
I think that's really what it


238
00:13:04,018 --> 00:13:07,032
comes down to John.
And speaking of John's, let's go

239
00:13:07,032 --> 00:13:09,120
to Jonathan.

Jonathan, you said something

240
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,860
about that you you will not pay
for the YouTube premium

241
00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:13,848
service.
And I'm curious.

242
00:13:13,848 --> 00:13:15,767
Why not?
Jonathan Howard: I refuse.

243
00:13:15,767 --> 00:13:18,527
I
don't know.
I have trouble paying for social

244
00:13:18,527 --> 00:13:21,829
media in
general.
It's just against what I like to

245
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:23,719
do.
Yeah, and it's one
of those

246
00:13:23,719 --> 00:13:25,587
things as many times.
Plus, they're really aggressive

247
00:13:25,587 --> 00:13:27,739
with their you got to buy it.
You got to buy it.

248
00:13:27,739 --> 00:13:29,299
You got to
buy it every time
you sign on.

249
00:13:29,299 --> 00:13:31,963
It makes me crazy.
That's all, Marc Ronick: well,

250
00:13:31,963 --> 00:13:33,205
I'm telling
you, it's worth
it.

251
00:13:33,205 --> 00:13:35,059
I promise you, it's really worth
it.

252
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,720
Jonathan Howard: And according

to your question, your question,

253
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,395
I would say it depends on your

goals.

254
00:13:40,395 --> 00:13:43,144
If you're looking to get more,
you know, new listeners,
then

255
00:13:43,144 --> 00:13:45,910
you'll go one way.
If you're looking to just have


256
00:13:45,918 --> 00:13:47,620
really invested people, you go
the other way.

257
00:13:47,919 --> 00:13:49,339
Marc Ronick: Yeah, fair enough.


258
00:13:49,347 --> 00:13:51,629
Okay, cool.
Well, let me keep things moving

259
00:13:51,629 --> 00:13:54,918
with Dr, here
actually, oh, I
didn't have my music queued up,

260
00:13:54,918 --> 00:13:58,119
so I'm not
gonna play it.
Dr, you have a top five list for

261
00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:58,726
D.R.
Fay: us.

262
00:13:58,726 --> 00:14:00,890
I do have the top
five list.
Good morning, everyone.

263
00:14:00,890 --> 00:14:05,136
Okay, the first top we
usually
I read off the Spotify, and then

264
00:14:05,136 --> 00:14:08,013
I go to a random but in
the
past couple weeks, we've been

265
00:14:08,013 --> 00:14:14,262
doing just two random
charts.
So the top five, and this one is

266
00:14:14,262 --> 00:14:16,500
the top five
education for
kids.

267
00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:18,516
Marc Ronick: And where is this

come from?

268
00:14:18,516 --> 00:14:21,829
This list, D.R.
Fay: this one comes from


269
00:14:21,837 --> 00:14:25,207
Apple, okay, okay.
Number five is terrestrials.

270
00:14:25,207 --> 00:14:29,779
Number four is
smalllogies
with Ally ward.

271
00:14:30,259 --> 00:14:34,409
Number three is smash boom.
Best
a funny, smart debate

272
00:14:34,409 --> 00:14:38,551
show for kids and family.
Number two is
brains on

273
00:14:38,551 --> 00:14:43,755
science positive.
Number one, Ralph Estep Jr:

274
00:14:43,755 --> 00:14:45,027
good.
Night,
good night.

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00:14:45,027 --> 00:14:47,898
Dr, take a breath.
Oh my gosh.

276
00:14:47,898 --> 00:14:51,380
Gotta beat the
timpani.
The Marc Ronick: timpani, the

277
00:14:51,380 --> 00:14:54,705
number
one is Wow, in the
world.

278
00:14:54,705 --> 00:14:57,545
There it is.
Now that second, third
one was

279
00:14:57,545 --> 00:14:59,796
a long title, yes, and because
of that.

280
00:14:59,796 --> 00:15:01,602
You kind of
swallowed the
second one.

281
00:15:01,602 --> 00:15:04,218
The second one was brains on
D.R.

282
00:15:04,218 --> 00:15:06,480
Fay: on science podcast for

kids.

283
00:15:06,599 --> 00:15:08,781
Marc Ronick: Cool, very cool.

That's number two as well.

284
00:15:08,781 --> 00:15:10,894
Just, I don't, we don't see a
lot of
kids, but I guess for

285
00:15:10,894 --> 00:15:12,719
an education category, that
makes
sense.

286
00:15:13,020 --> 00:15:13,671
D.R.
Fay: Yeah.

287
00:15:13,671 --> 00:15:16,594
And by the way,
I think that
number two and number three

288
00:15:16,594 --> 00:15:21,020
brains on and smash
boom, best
are in the same network.

289
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:22,699
Marc Ronick: Oh, okay, D.R.
Fay: okay.

290
00:15:22,699 --> 00:15:25,099
And so the next
one, you know
what?

291
00:15:25,099 --> 00:15:28,499
I touched some onions, and I
touched my
eyes, and now my

292
00:15:28,499 --> 00:15:31,405
eyes are watering.
Marc Ronick: Oh, so, oh, so


293
00:15:31,413 --> 00:15:32,869
wait.
So we've learned something new.

294
00:15:32,869 --> 00:15:35,419
The eggs sometimes includes

onions.

295
00:15:35,660 --> 00:15:37,760
D.R.
Fay: I don't, I think from


296
00:15:37,768 --> 00:15:40,634
last I don't know.
I know, I don't know.

297
00:15:40,634 --> 00:15:41,859
Okay, Marc Ronick: okay, go
ahead.

298
00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:43,540
D.R.
Fay: Dang, okay.

299
00:15:43,540 --> 00:15:45,174
Onions Ralph Estep Jr: are hard
in the
morning.

300
00:15:45,174 --> 00:15:45,743
Yes.
D.R.

301
00:15:45,743 --> 00:15:47,380
Fay: Are hard in the
morning,
Marc Ronick: anytime.

302
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,240
D.R.
Fay: And speaking of onions


303
00:15:49,248 --> 00:15:54,280
and eggs, the random chart has
to do with the top five best


304
00:15:54,288 --> 00:15:58,186
food podcasts.
Number five is the chef's cut.

305
00:15:58,186 --> 00:16:02,684
Number four is
the best five
minute wine podcast.

306
00:16:02,684 --> 00:16:09,594
Number three is walk
and talk.
Podcast number two is meat

307
00:16:09,594 --> 00:16:14,435
church podcast, and the
number
one podcast is things bakers

308
00:16:14,435 --> 00:16:19,087
know, the King Arthur's
baking
podcast, Marc Ronick: and that

309
00:16:19,087 --> 00:16:21,093
is the
random chart of the
week.

310
00:16:21,093 --> 00:16:25,159
Dr sitting back in her chair,

taking a breath, that is, yeah,

311
00:16:25,159 --> 00:16:28,099
the random chart of the week,

Apple's top five food podcast.

312
00:16:28,099 --> 00:16:30,751
And very appropriate.
Dr,
although I can't say too

313
00:16:30,751 --> 00:16:35,139
much, I can say I've shared with
you all
my stepson, Matthew,

314
00:16:35,139 --> 00:16:40,277
and it's Matthew B cooks the
letter B on
Instagram, and I

315
00:16:40,277 --> 00:16:45,519
think on Tiktok, same handle, he
does
cooking videos, content

316
00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:49,539
creation, cooking videos, and

they've been doing quite well.

317
00:16:49,539 --> 00:16:51,339
He's got some good traction

going.

318
00:16:51,339 --> 00:16:54,934
And I've shared with you guys
that he had a major


319
00:16:54,942 --> 00:16:58,851
opportunity available or made to
him with a big time content


320
00:16:58,859 --> 00:17:01,721
creator.
And I can't say any more than

321
00:17:01,721 --> 00:17:05,919
that, other than just
to say
that he did verbally get the

322
00:17:05,919 --> 00:17:09,659
offer, and now we're waiting

for that contract, and I think,

323
00:17:09,659 --> 00:17:13,378
I hope, depending on what the

contract says, I think once he

324
00:17:13,378 --> 00:17:16,378
signs it, I can actually tell

you all about it, because this

325
00:17:16,378 --> 00:17:21,858
is so relevant to our world.
All
I'll say is, that it's a

326
00:17:21,858 --> 00:17:26,383
perfect example of creating
content that
you love and that

327
00:17:26,383 --> 00:17:30,565
you're passionate about, and
just
putting it out there with

328
00:17:30,565 --> 00:17:34,766
no expectations other than it's
something you like doing.

329
00:17:34,766 --> 00:17:39,657
And from that, the results that
have
come from that mindset

330
00:17:39,657 --> 00:17:44,418
and that approach, the results
are
exactly what I think we

331
00:17:44,418 --> 00:17:48,039
all hope for.
Right is to be seen, to get


332
00:17:48,047 --> 00:17:50,891
big opportunities, or any
opportunities, for that matter,

333
00:17:50,891 --> 00:17:53,841
and potentially a very
financially strong opportunity.

334
00:17:53,841 --> 00:17:57,159

So I can't wait to share more

335
00:17:57,159 --> 00:17:59,191
with you all about it.
I am
telling you now you're

336
00:17:59,191 --> 00:18:03,590
going to be blown away when I
tell you
what the opportunity

337
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:06,950
is and who the creator is that
he's going
to be working with.

338
00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:12,578
So more to come on that one.
All right,
let's see here some

339
00:18:12,578 --> 00:18:15,634
quickly, some events.
The podcast show in
London

340
00:18:15,634 --> 00:18:18,156
just added a bunch of new
speakers.

341
00:18:18,156 --> 00:18:22,839
James cridlin from pod
news
kicks off day one with the new

342
00:18:22,839 --> 00:18:26,339
pod news, report card
results.
Apple podcasts.

343
00:18:26,339 --> 00:18:31,053
Susie warhurst will talk video
with a
cast Laura Hagan and I

344
00:18:31,053 --> 00:18:34,024
said it like that, ooh, Apple
podcast,
because they don't do

345
00:18:34,024 --> 00:18:37,303
a lot of conventions, but they
do the
podcast show they've

346
00:18:37,303 --> 00:18:41,407
been there before.
Day two brings YouTube's
Steve

347
00:18:41,407 --> 00:18:46,131
McClendon and Stella Binns for a
deep dive into YouTube's


348
00:18:46,139 --> 00:18:49,319
podcast strategy and where
creators fill into it.

349
00:18:49,319 --> 00:18:52,084
And yes,
that was written by
AI.

350
00:18:52,084 --> 00:18:57,279
Deep Dive being the telltale
sign,
also, if you're new to

351
00:18:57,279 --> 00:19:01,137
this show, or perhaps living
under a
rock empowered

352
00:19:01,137 --> 00:19:04,247
podcasting conference three is
happening
August 21 through

353
00:19:04,247 --> 00:19:06,353
the 23rd in Charlotte, North
Carolina.

354
00:19:06,353 --> 00:19:11,099
And
if you're an indie or DIY
podcaster who wants to connect,

355
00:19:11,099 --> 00:19:15,083
create and grow alongside
people who truly get it, this is

356
00:19:15,083 --> 00:19:17,859
where
you want to be.
So come for the education, stay

357
00:19:17,859 --> 00:19:21,595
for the
community, and leave
with a lot of new ideas, new

358
00:19:21,595 --> 00:19:24,225
relationships
and real
momentum for your podcast.

359
00:19:24,225 --> 00:19:28,759
Visit empowered
podcasting.com
to grab your ticket today and do

360
00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:32,392
it before
May 15, because
prices go up then.

361
00:19:32,392 --> 00:19:35,613
And by the way, again,
I'll
just quickly remind you, one

362
00:19:35,613 --> 00:19:39,079
o'clock today live, go to

podcasting morning show.com/epc

363
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,679
live, yours truly will be

hosting the live stream, giving

364
00:19:44,679 --> 00:19:50,319
you updates on the event, some

back backstage info, behind the

365
00:19:50,319 --> 00:19:53,509
scenes, info about it, and also,

of course, Sid Meadows sharing

366
00:19:53,509 --> 00:19:56,919
a lot of his new monetization

strategies, including his

367
00:19:56,919 --> 00:20:00,156
private podcast that I'm really
excited to hear more about.

368
00:20:00,156 --> 00:20:03,120
So with that Sid Meadows: drop
it, why share
my secret?

369
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,719
That was a secret.
Marc Ronick: No, it wasn't.

370
00:20:05,719 --> 00:20:08,012
You
said I could talk about
it.

371
00:20:08,012 --> 00:20:11,364
You said we could talk about it.
I
texted you last night.

372
00:20:11,364 --> 00:20:14,159
All right, you scared me.
Hey, Sid.

373
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,754
D.R.
Fay: Hey, Sid.

374
00:20:15,754 --> 00:20:18,540
Are you
creating a course on
this?

375
00:20:18,540 --> 00:20:20,794
Because I think you should, it

is.

376
00:20:20,794 --> 00:20:23,840
It could be, I'm thinking Sid
Meadows: it could be


377
00:20:23,848 --> 00:20:27,890
considered a course, yes.
Dr, it's all recorded.

378
00:20:27,890 --> 00:20:30,440
It's all
ready to go.
I just have been having some

379
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,750
tech issues, and I
hired
somebody yesterday to help me

380
00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:33,720
with all the tech issues.
D.R.

381
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,168
Fay: Awesome.
Marc Ronick: Sid, are you going

382
00:20:35,168 --> 00:20:37,364
to the podcast show at all?
I know you're going there to

383
00:20:37,364 --> 00:20:39,615
visit
your daughter.
Sid Meadows: Yeah, no, I forgot

384
00:20:39,615 --> 00:20:40,848
about it until you just
mentioned it.

385
00:20:40,848 --> 00:20:43,460
So I'm going to
look at it,
because I'm my first my first I

386
00:20:43,460 --> 00:20:44,580
was, when am I gonna
have
time?

387
00:20:44,580 --> 00:20:46,748
Because I got the weekend with
her, and then I'm
working

388
00:20:46,748 --> 00:20:48,304
during the week.
There's a furniture show there

389
00:20:48,304 --> 00:20:50,244
that I'm
going to we got lots
of stuff doing there.

390
00:20:50,244 --> 00:20:53,086
And then I'm
hanging out my
daughter on the weekend as well.

391
00:20:53,086 --> 00:20:56,364
And the
following weekend,
I'll be gone for 10 days, so I

392
00:20:56,364 --> 00:20:58,754
will miss you
guys.
I will try to pop in as much as

393
00:20:58,754 --> 00:21:01,710
I can, but I will be
absent
from the podcasting morning show

394
00:21:01,710 --> 00:21:04,815
for the next week
or so.
And it's interesting.

395
00:21:04,815 --> 00:21:08,460
Tie in, so my daughter yesterday

went and met with the CEO of a

396
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,480
fashion publishing company, and
they've hired her to be an

397
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,454
intern.
And so she went
yesterday to

398
00:21:14,454 --> 00:21:16,730
understand what her role was
going to be and what
all she

399
00:21:16,730 --> 00:21:19,365
was going to be doing during her
internship, which she
starts

400
00:21:19,365 --> 00:21:21,740
this week.
She's going to be working on

401
00:21:21,740 --> 00:21:24,500
their podcast
team.
Marc Ronick: Oh, very cool.

402
00:21:25,340 --> 00:21:28,220
Sid Meadows: Like, did you tell
her your dad was a podcaster?

403
00:21:28,220 --> 00:21:29,935
And she said, No, it wasn't

appropriate.

404
00:21:29,935 --> 00:21:32,780
I said, why not?
Of course, it's appropriate.

405
00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:35,166
Kid,
you D.R.
Fay: and your daughter
should

406
00:21:35,166 --> 00:21:37,459
go to Marc Ronick: the
convention
together.

407
00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:39,684
Sid Meadows: I may try to grab

her.

408
00:21:39,684 --> 00:21:42,036
She does not have school on
Wednesdays and Thursdays, so I


409
00:21:42,044 --> 00:21:45,484
may try to grab her one day and
see if we can pop over there for

410
00:21:45,484 --> 00:21:47,500

a couple of hours.
I just need to go check it out.

411
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:48,700
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and Sid
Meadows: the, think about me

412
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,580
Marc Ronick: and the dates, by

the way, for the podcast show I

413
00:21:51,580 --> 00:21:56,200
didn't share, I believe that's

may 20 and 21st so if anybody is

414
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,985
in that area, now you know

where, when and where to go.

415
00:21:59,985 --> 00:22:05,252
All right, so with that, Ralph,
quick tip, smart move.

416
00:22:05,252 --> 00:22:08,520
Content
creators business
bite.

417
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,240
And today's business bite is

brought to you by that guy,

418
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,440
Ralph E step Jr, of content

creators, accountant.com Ralph

419
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,460
is a licensed accountant with

over 30 years of experience

420
00:22:22,460 --> 00:22:27,080
helping creators navigate taxes,

bookkeeping and the money side

421
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,620
of their business with more

clarity and a whole lot less

422
00:22:30,620 --> 00:22:32,861
stress.
And he's also my
accountant.

423
00:22:32,861 --> 00:22:37,148
I'm happy to recommend Ralph,
and you can
learn more again

424
00:22:37,148 --> 00:22:39,684
at content creators
accountant.com All
right,

425
00:22:39,684 --> 00:22:43,275
Ralph, what are we diving into?
Ralph Estep Jr: Good morning,


426
00:22:43,283 --> 00:22:45,040
everybody.
I have a great Arctic hero to

427
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,231
talk about for years,
podcast
advertising has followed a

428
00:22:48,231 --> 00:22:50,740
simple rule, and we all

probably buy into this one,

429
00:22:50,980 --> 00:22:54,760
bigger audience, bigger value,

but that really that rule may be

430
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,608
starting to crack.
A new piece
from pod news

431
00:22:57,608 --> 00:23:00,774
argues that smaller niche
Podcasts can
outperform larger

432
00:23:00,774 --> 00:23:02,364
shows.
Now you did.

433
00:23:02,364 --> 00:23:04,956
You heard me right?
Smaller
niche Podcasts can

434
00:23:04,956 --> 00:23:07,275
actually outperform larger shows
because
they don't just

435
00:23:07,275 --> 00:23:08,828
deliver listeners.
They deliver intent.


436
00:23:08,836 --> 00:23:12,312
And I want us to think about
this for a second.

437
00:23:12,312 --> 00:23:14,904
A broad
Lifestyle Podcast
might reach 50,000 people, and

438
00:23:14,904 --> 00:23:16,272
we always
say, Oh, that's
great.

439
00:23:16,272 --> 00:23:20,280
I'm hitting 50,000 people, but a

niche podcast about marathon

440
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,660
training, startup growth or

cycling gear reaches people who

441
00:23:23,660 --> 00:23:26,900
are already thinking about a

specific problem, a particular

442
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:30,680
purchase or a decision they need

to make, and that matters,

443
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,406
because advertisers aren't

really buying downloads.

444
00:23:33,406 --> 00:23:36,154
What advertisers are really
buying
are outcomes, and when

445
00:23:36,154 --> 00:23:39,500
a listener plus is play because
they're researching or they're

446
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:42,820
comparing or they're learning,

or maybe they're ready to buy or

447
00:23:42,820 --> 00:23:46,360
act, that intention is more

valuable than passive reach, and

448
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:48,796
that's where niche podcasts have

an advantage.

449
00:23:48,796 --> 00:23:52,444
Their audience can be smaller,
but their context is
clearer,

450
00:23:52,444 --> 00:23:55,928
and the listeners mindset is
easy to understand,
and the

451
00:23:55,928 --> 00:23:58,876
brand message can feel less like
an interruption and
more like

452
00:23:58,876 --> 00:24:01,932
part of the conversation.
Now I love where
AI is going

453
00:24:01,932 --> 00:24:05,241
with this, because AI can
accelerate this shift by


454
00:24:05,249 --> 00:24:08,215
helping advertisers identify
those high intent moments across

455
00:24:08,215 --> 00:24:11,460

1000s of smaller shows.
But the value is already there.

456
00:24:11,460 --> 00:24:13,245
Ai just
makes it easier to
see.

457
00:24:13,245 --> 00:24:16,860
So here's the business takeaway,

podcast creators should stop

458
00:24:16,860 --> 00:24:18,344
selling themselves only on

downloads.

459
00:24:18,344 --> 00:24:22,336
Let me get an amen to that one
and start selling the
moment.

460
00:24:22,336 --> 00:24:24,518
What is the listener trying to
solve?

461
00:24:24,518 --> 00:24:26,655
What decisions
are they close
to making?

462
00:24:26,655 --> 00:24:29,738
And how does your show put a
sponsor
in the right place at

463
00:24:29,738 --> 00:24:31,880
the right time?
Because in podcasting, the


464
00:24:31,888 --> 00:24:34,980
next big pricing advantage may
not belong to the biggest


465
00:24:34,988 --> 00:24:37,066
audience.
It may belong to the most

466
00:24:37,066 --> 00:24:39,382
relevant one, and that's
your
business.

467
00:24:39,382 --> 00:24:42,796
Bite in media scale gets
attention, but intent
gets

468
00:24:42,796 --> 00:24:45,205
results, and we're all looking
for results.

469
00:24:45,205 --> 00:24:47,290
Mark, Marc Ronick: oh yeah, we
are.


470
00:24:47,298 --> 00:24:49,828
Thank you, Ralph.
And that fits very nicely with

471
00:24:49,828 --> 00:24:51,760
the question
that I asked
earlier, right?

472
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,260
Would you rather have one or

many, one dedicated or many

473
00:24:56,260 --> 00:24:58,522
casual?
And I didn't answer the


474
00:24:58,530 --> 00:25:02,580
question and I.
Look, I think that, I think

475
00:25:02,580 --> 00:25:06,672
instinctively, I
gravitate to
the download numbers, right?

476
00:25:06,672 --> 00:25:09,456
It's just like
you see all
these numbers, and when they,

477
00:25:09,456 --> 00:25:12,260
especially when
they're
growing, and you can get tied up

478
00:25:12,260 --> 00:25:14,502
into that.
And I got to
tell you, that

479
00:25:14,502 --> 00:25:17,520
feeling in comparison to the
feeling of the
download

480
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,845
numbers, they don't compare.
It gives me such a
boost, such

481
00:25:21,845 --> 00:25:27,140
a bigger rush getting that kind
of feedback
versus seeing our

482
00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:28,535
download numbers growing.
Yeah.

483
00:25:28,535 --> 00:25:32,480
So I
think that for me, I
think when it really comes down

484
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,578
to it, I'd
much rather have a
smaller audience with dedicated

485
00:25:36,578 --> 00:25:40,312
community members versus just
seeing big download numbers all

486
00:25:40,312 --> 00:25:42,280
the time.
Ralph Estep Jr: And I'll take it

487
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,292

one step further.
How would you like to have money

488
00:25:44,292 --> 00:25:46,228
in your
pocket too?
Marc Ronick: Yeah, Ralph Estep

489
00:25:46,228 --> 00:25:48,790
Jr: if you're
actually making
money with your content, I don't

490
00:25:48,790 --> 00:25:50,960
really care how
many downloads
you have.

491
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,238
Show me the money.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, because Ralph

492
00:25:53,238 --> 00:25:54,983
Estep Jr: that's going to
make
me feel a lot better.

493
00:25:54,983 --> 00:25:57,075
But I know what you're saying.
It's
almost soul crushing.

494
00:25:57,075 --> 00:25:59,439
When you look at the download
numbers,
you're like, nobody's

495
00:25:59,439 --> 00:26:00,922
hearing this.
But man, if I because
there

496
00:26:00,922 --> 00:26:03,839
are a lot of people with a lot
of downloads who are broke,


497
00:26:03,847 --> 00:26:06,839
and that's so that's a nice
thing to look at, but if it's


498
00:26:06,847 --> 00:26:09,349
not putting money in your
pocket, if you're in it to make

499
00:26:09,349 --> 00:26:11,670
money, then that's an issue.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I that.

500
00:26:11,670 --> 00:26:14,220
I
definitely agree with you,
and I think that it's important

501
00:26:14,220 --> 00:26:16,702
to try
to monetize if that's
your goal, right?

502
00:26:16,702 --> 00:26:20,200
And I do really believe
based
especially on based on that

503
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,819
article that you just
shared,
I really do believe that you can

504
00:26:23,819 --> 00:26:27,902
make yourself some good
money
with a smaller, loyal, dedicated

505
00:26:27,902 --> 00:26:31,865
audience, because,
let's face
it, you get 1000s of downloads,

506
00:26:31,865 --> 00:26:33,935
but these are all
casual
listeners.

507
00:26:33,935 --> 00:26:36,680
They're probably not even
listening long
enough to know

508
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,504
what to purchase from you,
whether it's from a
sponsor,

509
00:26:39,504 --> 00:26:41,842
whether it's your own products
and services.

510
00:26:41,842 --> 00:26:45,418
If you
have casual listeners,
they're not in the know and

511
00:26:45,418 --> 00:26:48,144
they're not
taking action.
That's the message there.

512
00:26:48,144 --> 00:26:52,639
Thank you, Ralph,
and let's
keep things moving.

513
00:26:52,639 --> 00:26:57,465
I see that it's 830 so let me
also
remind you quickly about

514
00:26:57,465 --> 00:27:01,500
our Spotlight series, and I know

that we've finally started

515
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:03,978
getting some people to respond

to this.

516
00:27:03,978 --> 00:27:06,960
Ralph behind the scenes, and
Ralph and I have
been talking,

517
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,000
and it's just mind blowing to
us.

518
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,210
We're giving you
a free
opportunity to promote your

519
00:27:12,210 --> 00:27:16,080
podcast to other
podcasters.
And yes, I get it that maybe we

520
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,926
are not your all
of us aren't
your target audience, but this

521
00:27:19,926 --> 00:27:21,736
is free pub.

Take advantage.

522
00:27:21,736 --> 00:27:26,420
All you got to do is submit a
62nd clip about
your show,

523
00:27:26,420 --> 00:27:29,680
something that gives our people
here a real feel for
your

524
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,875
podcast, and then if we select
it, we'll play your clip
and

525
00:27:33,875 --> 00:27:36,544
we'll share what stood out to
us.

526
00:27:36,544 --> 00:27:39,440
We'll introduce your show
to
our community of podcasters.

527
00:27:39,620 --> 00:27:42,520
Just submit your clip.
Go to
podcasting morning

528
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:48,580
show.com/spotlight, ideally we

want you to promote personally.

529
00:27:48,580 --> 00:27:51,760
We would rather you do that than

just provide us with a random

530
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,156
clip of your show.
One way you
may want to do if

531
00:27:55,156 --> 00:27:57,727
you really feel like it's
important to you
to share a

532
00:27:57,727 --> 00:28:01,255
clip, maybe set it up for us.
Give us 1015, seconds of
what

533
00:28:01,255 --> 00:28:04,860
we're about to listen to tell
us, maybe briefly about the


534
00:28:04,868 --> 00:28:08,132
show, and then we'll play the
clip with that little


535
00:28:08,140 --> 00:28:10,190
introduction, something to think
about.

536
00:28:10,190 --> 00:28:12,774
But either way,
podcasting
morning show.com/slash

537
00:28:12,774 --> 00:28:17,990
spotlight, and we
will feature
your show if you submit it.

538
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:20,342
And thank you to
those of you
who have already submitted.

539
00:28:20,342 --> 00:28:23,059
All right, so let's
get into
some news bytes.

540
00:28:23,059 --> 00:28:25,856
We've been talking a little bit
about
Spotify today.

541
00:28:25,856 --> 00:28:30,860
So appropriately, Spotify is
rolling out a new
verified by

542
00:28:30,860 --> 00:28:34,215
Spotify badge, specifically
right now for music
artists.

543
00:28:34,215 --> 00:28:37,235
And I think that this is
something that podcasters


544
00:28:37,243 --> 00:28:39,567
should still be paying attention
to.

545
00:28:39,567 --> 00:28:43,600
And shout out to Steven
Cofer,
tipping me off to this.

546
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,660
He sent this to me last night.

Actually, I think he posted it

547
00:28:46,660 --> 00:28:49,300
in our empowered podcasting

Facebook group.

548
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:53,140
So verified by Spotify is about
giving
listeners a clear

549
00:28:53,140 --> 00:28:58,042
signal that an artist's profile
is authentic
and trusted and

550
00:28:58,042 --> 00:29:00,595
not AI.
Spotify says eligibility

551
00:29:00,595 --> 00:29:03,300
includes things
like
consistent listener activity,

552
00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:07,090
staying in good
standing with
the platform policies, and

553
00:29:07,090 --> 00:29:11,845
showing signs of a
real artist
presence on and off the

554
00:29:11,845 --> 00:29:14,445
platform.
By the way, I'll
just say side

555
00:29:14,445 --> 00:29:16,070
note.
I'm curious about those

556
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:19,414
standards and how
they're
going to track all of that, but

557
00:29:19,414 --> 00:29:22,534
we shall see.
Like I
said, this is currently

558
00:29:22,534 --> 00:29:26,528
for music artists, which makes
sense
with AI generated

559
00:29:26,528 --> 00:29:29,186
content and content arms,
muddying things
up.

560
00:29:29,186 --> 00:29:33,372
But I do think there's a bigger
podcasting conversation
here.

561
00:29:33,372 --> 00:29:37,154
If Spotify eventually brings
this to podcasts,
verification

562
00:29:37,154 --> 00:29:41,644
could become a credible a
credibility sign that


563
00:29:41,652 --> 00:29:45,312
positively affects trust
discovery and whether new


564
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,210
listeners feel confident about
hitting play on that podcast and

565
00:29:49,210 --> 00:29:53,784

in a world where AI generated
shows fake hosts low effort pod

566
00:29:53,784 --> 00:29:57,720
slop.
I know we say AI slop a lot, but

567
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,100
podslop seems to be a
term
that's.

568
00:30:00,100 --> 00:30:03,222
Been forming lately.
These are already
becoming a

569
00:30:03,222 --> 00:30:07,629
thing, and podcast verification
may become another
credibility

570
00:30:07,629 --> 00:30:11,435
layer creators have to earn this
next story.

571
00:30:11,435 --> 00:30:16,086
Dr,
number two, I would love
for you to take D.R.

572
00:30:16,086 --> 00:30:20,916
Fay: absolutely okay, so
only
fans is making a bigger play for

573
00:30:20,916 --> 00:30:25,640
podcast creators,
launching
new community pages for sports,

574
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:31,408
comedy and podcast
podcasts
announced by CEO, is it Keely?

575
00:30:31,408 --> 00:30:33,613
Do you think it's
pronounced
Keely?

576
00:30:33,613 --> 00:30:36,200
CEO, Marc Ronick: a, Keely.
Blair, I
think so.

577
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,648
D.R.
Fay: K, e, i, L, Y, yes.


578
00:30:39,656 --> 00:30:42,850
Keeley.
Blair, at the OMR festival in

579
00:30:42,850 --> 00:30:45,148
Hamburg.
And Marc Ronick: I want to just

580
00:30:45,148 --> 00:30:46,845
say,
Dr, that just so we're
very clear.

581
00:30:46,845 --> 00:30:49,780
We are not saying true
fans.
We are fans of true fans.

582
00:30:49,780 --> 00:30:53,560
We had Sam Sethi on the show,

but this is only fans.

583
00:30:53,619 --> 00:30:55,419
D.R.
Fay: This is the one that
we

584
00:30:55,419 --> 00:30:57,076
always say.
It's not Marc Ronick: right,

585
00:30:57,076 --> 00:30:58,011
right,
right.
D.R.

586
00:30:58,011 --> 00:31:01,128
Fay: Okay, yeah, because
that
had me for a second.

587
00:31:01,128 --> 00:31:06,959
So okay, Keely Blair of the OMR
festival in Hamburg, Oh, great.

588
00:31:06,959 --> 00:31:08,924
Now I'm hungry for a hamburger.


589
00:31:08,932 --> 00:31:12,144
Okay, the podcast page is
designed Marc Ronick: burger

590
00:31:12,144 --> 00:31:13,314
with onions.
D.R.

591
00:31:13,314 --> 00:31:18,212
Fay: That's the podcast
page
is designed to spotlight hosts

592
00:31:18,212 --> 00:31:22,280
already using the platform
for
exclusive episodes and fan

593
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:28,100
engagement, including shows like

Tiger Mom with boyfriend

594
00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:32,100
material with Harry jowsey and

billion dollar Barbie.

595
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:37,580
The company says podcasting is a

fast growing category on only

596
00:31:37,580 --> 00:31:42,820
fans with creators using it to

expand beyond their main

597
00:31:42,820 --> 00:31:46,900
subscriber pages and unlock new
revenue opportunities for

598
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:50,456
podcasters.
This is another
reminder that

599
00:31:50,456 --> 00:31:54,298
the premium content conversation
keeps
spreading across

600
00:31:54,298 --> 00:32:00,108
platforms and only fans clearly
wants to be
seen as more than

601
00:32:00,108 --> 00:32:06,176
the internet's spicy paywall.
Marc Ronick: Thank you.

602
00:32:06,176 --> 00:32:10,720
Dr,
yeah, so only fans getting
in the game of podcasting.

603
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:11,925
Very
interesting.
D.R.

604
00:32:11,925 --> 00:32:14,118
Fay: True fans.
Marc Ronick: True fans, is


605
00:32:14,126 --> 00:32:17,685
already in the game, and they
are a dedicated podcast player.

606
00:32:17,685 --> 00:32:20,040

This is a whole new spectrum

607
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,860
here.
Only fans getting in the
game.

608
00:32:21,860 --> 00:32:25,286
I'm not going to rush to put the
podcasting morning show
on

609
00:32:25,286 --> 00:32:27,750
only fans, unless it really
becomes a big thing.

610
00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:31,346
But as of
now, I think we will
keep things where they are.

611
00:32:31,346 --> 00:32:35,240
Also in the
news.
The Golden Globes are opening

612
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,580
the podcast door a
little
wider this year, expanding

613
00:32:38,580 --> 00:32:43,180
eligibility for the
84th
awards from 25 shows to 30

614
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,020
shows, Luminate will still make
the call using its own

615
00:32:47,020 --> 00:32:49,540
methodology looking at things

like audience, reach,

616
00:32:49,540 --> 00:32:53,186
engagement, platform, visibility

and overall presence.

617
00:32:53,186 --> 00:32:57,700
And again, this really doesn't
apply to a
lot of us indie or

618
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:01,680
DIY podcasters, because they are

looking only for the biggest

619
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,580
ones that are out there and the
big stars, yes, at least as of

620
00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:09,480
now, that's the way that they're

handling it also, by the way,

621
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,136
another story in the news.
This
is a little sad to hear.

622
00:33:13,136 --> 00:33:17,814
The bipoc podcast creators group
is
closing after five years,

623
00:33:17,814 --> 00:33:20,388
and this one stings a little
bit.

624
00:33:20,388 --> 00:33:25,372
It
was founded in 2021 and the
organization served more than


625
00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:30,832
2100 bipoc podcast creators
built partnerships with NPR,


626
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,144
Simplecast, the podcast Academy,
Edison Research, Libsyn, Podcast

627
00:33:35,144 --> 00:33:39,455

Movement, a bunch of big
players in this space, and they

628
00:33:39,455 --> 00:33:43,537
also
hosted a lot of sold out
events in the US, in London and

629
00:33:43,537 --> 00:33:46,353
other
areas.
But the founders say that the

630
00:33:46,353 --> 00:33:50,920
work became unsustainable,

citing limited founder capacity

631
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,580
and the bigger challenge of

keeping community driven creator

632
00:33:54,580 --> 00:33:58,420
initiatives alive when corporate

support is shrinking, they

633
00:33:58,420 --> 00:34:01,710
have a discord that they say is
going
to stay active through

634
00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:05,870
the rest of this month, and the
website
will remain in archive

635
00:34:05,870 --> 00:34:08,435
mode.
So this is a tough reminder that

636
00:34:08,435 --> 00:34:11,940

community work, which I can
totally relate to, takes the


637
00:34:11,947 --> 00:34:15,735
real takes real labor, real
money and real infrastructure.


638
00:34:15,743 --> 00:34:20,688
Passion can start the engine,
but it doesn't pay for the gas


639
00:34:20,696 --> 00:34:22,636
forever.
There are alternatives out there

640
00:34:22,636 --> 00:34:25,280
for those of you who
are were
a part of this community,

641
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,947
clearly, you can look
into
places like the black podcasters

642
00:34:28,947 --> 00:34:31,934
Association.
I know
several people who run

643
00:34:31,934 --> 00:34:36,020
that personally black and brown
podcast collective, Latina

644
00:34:36,020 --> 00:34:40,300
podcasters network, and the

black Podcast Directory, to name

645
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,592
a few.
All right, I'm going to
keep

646
00:34:43,592 --> 00:34:46,366
things moving.
Let me look at the time here.

647
00:34:46,366 --> 00:34:49,246
Now, normally
we were going to
do a segment here with BC

648
00:34:49,246 --> 00:34:51,217
babbles.
He likes
to handle the tech

649
00:34:51,217 --> 00:34:55,868
side of the news, but BC is at a
networking
event today, so I'm

650
00:34:55,868 --> 00:34:59,108
just going to go right to one of
the
headlines here, one of the

651
00:34:59,108 --> 00:35:02,428
main headlines here.
Which is titled
video

652
00:35:02,428 --> 00:35:07,050
podcasting has grown up, and
it's brutal out there.

653
00:35:07,050 --> 00:35:10,560
So
million podcasts.
That's a website that, by the

654
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,128
way, I was
looking into it,
because lately, this website has

655
00:35:14,128 --> 00:35:17,318
been cited a
lot.
I've been noticing on places

656
00:35:17,318 --> 00:35:21,460
like LinkedIn and other
social
media platforms and even pod

657
00:35:21,460 --> 00:35:25,940
news now are citing this

particular site, million

658
00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:28,592
podcasts a lot.
I looked into it
recently, and

659
00:35:28,592 --> 00:35:31,070
they are relatively new, so I'm
not going
crazy.

660
00:35:31,070 --> 00:35:34,600
I think they were founded in
2024 and have got a lot of


661
00:35:34,608 --> 00:35:36,712
traction since then.
Ralph, did you want to say

662
00:35:36,712 --> 00:35:38,450
something about
this?
Yeah, Ralph Estep Jr: I want to

663
00:35:38,450 --> 00:35:40,526
say
something about this
because a little self promotion

664
00:35:40,526 --> 00:35:44,704
here, I
just hit number three
on million podcast for Christian

665
00:35:44,704 --> 00:35:48,015
based
finance throughout the
world, which was amazing to me.

666
00:35:48,015 --> 00:35:50,560
Number
one was Dave Ramsey.
Number two is another one, but I

667
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,969
was number
three, and I was
like, wow, this is really cool.

668
00:35:52,969 --> 00:35:54,940
So
congratulations.
Put that all over the place, but

669
00:35:54,940 --> 00:35:57,160
when you
mentioned I was like,
Oh, I Marc Ronick: got to

670
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,060
mention
that.
Yeah, congratulations.

671
00:35:58,060 --> 00:36:00,687
Glad you did.
So million
podcasts put out a

672
00:36:00,687 --> 00:36:05,544
new state of video podcasting
2026 report,
and it paints a

673
00:36:05,544 --> 00:36:10,404
pretty sharp picture that video
podcasting is
a serious,

674
00:36:10,404 --> 00:36:13,894
mature media format, and the
biggest rewards are
going to

675
00:36:13,894 --> 00:36:17,532
the shows that think beyond I
made an episode, quote,


676
00:36:17,540 --> 00:36:22,180
unquote, the report analyze,
analyzes about 34,000 active


677
00:36:22,188 --> 00:36:27,236
English language video podcasts,
looking at Platform presence,


678
00:36:27,244 --> 00:36:30,912
Episode output, reviews,
sponsorships, audio, sorry,


679
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,730
audience estimates and format
patterns.

680
00:36:33,730 --> 00:36:38,532
So the report says
that the
top 10% of shows capture about

681
00:36:38,532 --> 00:36:44,774
85% of all monthly
listening
hours, while the bottom half

682
00:36:44,774 --> 00:36:50,040
shares around 1% the
typical
video podcast in the report has

683
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,592
a modeled monthly
audience of
around 2000 listeners, while the

684
00:36:54,592 --> 00:36:58,876
average is
much higher because
a small number of massive shows

685
00:36:58,876 --> 00:37:04,360
pull The
numbers up every top
10 show in the report is on

686
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:09,208
YouTube, and
all 10 use guest
or interview formats, which says

687
00:37:09,208 --> 00:37:12,498
a lot about
how discovery and
video native conversation

688
00:37:12,498 --> 00:37:16,482
formats are shaping
the top
end of podcasting.

689
00:37:16,482 --> 00:37:20,518
Also longer episodes appear to
have
an audience advantage,

690
00:37:20,518 --> 00:37:23,666
which that sounds a little
surprising,
probably to many

691
00:37:23,666 --> 00:37:26,514
of you.
The report says episodes that

692
00:37:26,514 --> 00:37:31,544
are 90
minutes or longer have
much higher median reach than

693
00:37:31,544 --> 00:37:35,390
shorter
formats, although the
data shows Association rather

694
00:37:35,390 --> 00:37:39,349
than proof
that length itself
causes growth.

695
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:45,190
So make that mental note
also
interestingly, reviews matter

696
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:49,240
more than star ratings.

The report found that review

697
00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:52,540
count closely tracks listener

volume, while star ratings are

698
00:37:52,540 --> 00:37:58,120
nearly useless as a popularity

signal, because most podcast

699
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:03,120
ratings cluster near the top

sponsorships mostly follow

700
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:06,888
audience size.
About 23% of
shows in the

701
00:38:06,888 --> 00:38:10,020
catalog have confirmed
sponsorships, and
sponsored

702
00:38:10,020 --> 00:38:14,264
shows have much larger median
audiences than
UNsponsored

703
00:38:14,264 --> 00:38:17,424
ones.
So the report's big strategic

704
00:38:17,424 --> 00:38:21,050
takeaway
is that multi
platform, distribution across

705
00:38:21,050 --> 00:38:25,160
YouTube,
Apple and Spotify is
becoming the baseline for

706
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,872
serious video
podcasts,
especially for creators who want

707
00:38:28,872 --> 00:38:31,052
reach
discovery and
monetization opportunities.

708
00:38:31,052 --> 00:38:35,906
And with that,
I'm curious,
does what do we think about this

709
00:38:35,906 --> 00:38:38,159
report?
Does it
make video feel more

710
00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:40,594
necessary to you?
More intimidating to
you, do

711
00:38:40,594 --> 00:38:44,098
you feel like the report makes
video feel like it's a


712
00:38:44,106 --> 00:38:46,705
necessity?
But maybe you don't think it is

713
00:38:46,705 --> 00:38:49,205
curious what you all
think
Ralph Estep Jr: about launching

714
00:38:49,205 --> 00:38:52,336
video on Apple just as soon as
I get approved, I put in the


715
00:38:52,344 --> 00:38:55,015
application last week with
Apple, so as soon as they say,


716
00:38:55,023 --> 00:38:57,988
go for it, I will be live on all
my shows on video.

717
00:38:57,988 --> 00:39:00,580
Because I
think it is a must.
That's my personal opinion.

718
00:39:00,580 --> 00:39:03,070
I think video
is a must.
I think that's where the

719
00:39:03,070 --> 00:39:04,962
industry is going.
And I
think if you don't do

720
00:39:04,962 --> 00:39:06,465
it, you're going to get left
behind.

721
00:39:06,465 --> 00:39:09,480
And I
know that's not a
popular opinion amongst audio


722
00:39:09,488 --> 00:39:13,008
podcasters, but I truly believe
that's where we are.

723
00:39:13,008 --> 00:39:15,100
I think
people will gravitate
towards the video.

724
00:39:15,100 --> 00:39:17,760
They can always go
back to the
audio, but they're going to

725
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,920
gravitate towards video
so
they can see you.

726
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,171
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I'm curious

to see.

727
00:39:22,171 --> 00:39:26,044
I definitely, I can't deny that
video isn't a thing
for

728
00:39:26,044 --> 00:39:29,786
podcasting and won't become a
bigger thing as it continues


729
00:39:29,794 --> 00:39:32,840
to grow.
But I do think that audio, I've

730
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,860
said it a million
times,
audio, will always have a place,

731
00:39:35,860 --> 00:39:39,682
and I think that we've
shared
lots of studies that show that

732
00:39:39,682 --> 00:39:43,000
it doesn't look like it's

going anywhere, but I do think

733
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,260
having that video as an option

just increases your chances with

734
00:39:47,260 --> 00:39:49,290
things like discoverability and
reach right.

735
00:39:49,290 --> 00:39:52,450
So in many ways, I agree with
what you're saying,
Ralph,

736
00:39:52,450 --> 00:39:55,924
that it's going to be a thing,
but I don't think it's
going

737
00:39:55,924 --> 00:39:58,920
to be the only thing.
I think that audio will still

738
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,800
have
its place.
Yes, and I know you still don't

739
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,106
quite agree with
that.
No, Ralph Estep Jr: I think

740
00:40:05,106 --> 00:40:07,545
audio
will always have its
place, because if I'm out riding

741
00:40:07,545 --> 00:40:10,550
on the
mower and I want to cut
the grass, I'm not watching a


742
00:40:10,558 --> 00:40:13,245
YouTube or an apple video.
But given the option between the

743
00:40:13,245 --> 00:40:16,230

two, I'd rather be able to
make a decision of, hey, I could

744
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:18,228

watch this now, or I could
listen to it.

745
00:40:18,228 --> 00:40:20,770
And I think that's
where Apple
is going in the right direction.

746
00:40:20,770 --> 00:40:24,308
And I honestly
think the word
podcast is going to go away too.

747
00:40:24,308 --> 00:40:26,079
I think we're
going to just
have content.

748
00:40:26,079 --> 00:40:27,852
It's not going to be the word
podcast
anymore.

749
00:40:27,852 --> 00:40:30,860
I think that is died and it's on
the vine, just
rotting away.

750
00:40:30,860 --> 00:40:33,455
But again, not a popular
sentiment on this show.


751
00:40:33,463 --> 00:40:37,203
But I think video is going to
finally put the nail in that


752
00:40:37,211 --> 00:40:39,540
coffin.
Marc Ronick: Bold claims from


753
00:40:39,548 --> 00:40:43,808
Ralph E step Jr, we will see if
these predictions come to


754
00:40:43,816 --> 00:40:45,088
fruition.
All right.

755
00:40:45,088 --> 00:40:48,174
Dr, what's our next story?
D.R.

756
00:40:48,174 --> 00:40:51,000
Fay: Oh, can you give me a

number seven?

757
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:56,431
Oh, thank you coming up.
Okay, why?

758
00:40:56,431 --> 00:40:59,475
Some
people still can't find
the play button.

759
00:40:59,475 --> 00:41:03,110
Okay, so here's the
story.
This is perhaps a follow up

760
00:41:03,110 --> 00:41:06,300
story from what we did a

couple weeks ago, the episode

761
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:11,340
about your podcast entry point,
if you all remember that Forbes

762
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,900
is taking a look at people who

still don't listen to podcasts,

763
00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:20,886
because, yes, somehow they exist

among us, walking freely.

764
00:41:20,886 --> 00:41:26,300
The article argues that even the

podcasting's growth, some

765
00:41:26,300 --> 00:41:32,360
holdouts still see the format as

confusing, inconvenient, or

766
00:41:32,420 --> 00:41:34,588
simply outside their daily

habit.

767
00:41:34,588 --> 00:41:38,578
The bigger takeaway is that
podcasting's next wave of


768
00:41:38,586 --> 00:41:44,302
growth may not come from making
more shows, but from making the

769
00:41:44,302 --> 00:41:48,640
listening experience easier,
clearer and more useful for


770
00:41:48,648 --> 00:41:52,525
people who never built podcasts
into their lives.

771
00:41:52,525 --> 00:41:56,800
So some of the
highlighted
points are one barrier is still

772
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,374
basic tech
friction,
especially for people who don't

773
00:42:00,374 --> 00:42:03,840
know where to find
shows or
how podcast apps work.

774
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,040
Some non listeners resist

changing their media habits,

775
00:42:08,340 --> 00:42:11,022
even when podcasts fit into

commutes.

776
00:42:11,022 --> 00:42:13,800
I'm sorry.
Commutes out workout words are

777
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,320
hard in
the morning, damn it.
Okay.

778
00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:19,320
Marc Ronick: Hit it.
Ralph.

779
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,250
Ralph Estep Jr: We're mouth

says, glory.

780
00:42:25,250 --> 00:42:28,550
Guess I forgot words are hard
and hard.

781
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:29,612
Did D.R.
Fay: I say?

782
00:42:29,612 --> 00:42:31,040
Say Ralph Estep Jr: that out
loud?

783
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:33,847
Marc Ronick: Ralph and I feel

like we won't do it, though.

784
00:42:33,847 --> 00:42:35,780
I feel like we need to hit the

wrong button.

785
00:42:35,780 --> 00:42:40,980
Jingle for you.
Jingle: Now, my screen froze up,

786
00:42:40,980 --> 00:42:46,401

my friend, oh man, all right,
Marc Ronick: take that one from

787
00:42:46,401 --> 00:42:49,144
the top.
Dr, D.R.

788
00:42:49,144 --> 00:42:52,060
Fay: one barrier is still

basic tech friction, especially

789
00:42:52,060 --> 00:42:55,840
for people who don't know where
to find shows or how podcast

790
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,642
apps work.
Some non listeners
resist

791
00:42:58,642 --> 00:43:03,294
changing their media habits,
even when podcasts fit
into

792
00:43:03,294 --> 00:43:07,535
commutes, workouts, chores and
downtime, creators may need
to

793
00:43:07,535 --> 00:43:11,036
explain the value of their shows
more clearly.

794
00:43:11,036 --> 00:43:15,876
Instead of
assuming that we
have a podcast that quote we

795
00:43:15,876 --> 00:43:18,108
have a podcast
unquote is
enough.

796
00:43:18,108 --> 00:43:22,880
Growth depends on converting
casual
curiosity into routine

797
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,960
listening, which means simpler

entry points and stronger

798
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,740
reasons to press play.
So I have
a question.

799
00:43:30,740 --> 00:43:34,888
Is the real problem podcast
discovery, or are
creators

800
00:43:34,888 --> 00:43:37,940
just bad at explaining why their
show matters?

801
00:43:38,660 --> 00:43:40,420
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and I guess

we talked a little bit about

802
00:43:40,420 --> 00:43:45,220
that last week, and yeah, just

being able to educate our

803
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,360
audience as far as how to

discover our show, where that

804
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,080
play button is, et cetera, just
and I think that this does all

805
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,224
come back to what we said last

week.

806
00:43:55,224 --> 00:43:59,092
I think is what the majority of
us agreed on, is
that sending

807
00:43:59,092 --> 00:44:04,054
them to our websites is probably
the most
effective way to get

808
00:44:04,054 --> 00:44:08,226
them comfortable and understand
what
our show is, where they

809
00:44:08,226 --> 00:44:11,133
can listen, et cetera.
If we can
make that easy for

810
00:44:11,133 --> 00:44:13,440
them, I think that makes the
most sense.


811
00:44:13,448 --> 00:44:15,520
Jonathan had something, I think,
go ahead.

812
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,240
Jonathan, Jonathan Howard: yeah,
I would
also just say, from my

813
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:20,780
experience with my clients,

people don't know how to talk

814
00:44:20,780 --> 00:44:22,280
about themselves.
They're very
uncomfortable

815
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,368
doing it.
And if they're being forced to

816
00:44:24,368 --> 00:44:26,702
talk
about their podcast to
get people interested, they're


817
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:29,840
probably not going to do it.
Mark, look at how much trouble


818
00:44:29,848 --> 00:44:32,684
you're having to get people to
submit for being featured.

819
00:44:32,684 --> 00:44:35,918
It's
because people don't like
to talk about themselves and

820
00:44:35,918 --> 00:44:38,080
what
they do Marc Ronick:
that's fair.

821
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,744
And I
think if you're a
podcaster, you got to get used

822
00:44:40,744 --> 00:44:42,480
to it.
If you
want, I Jonathan

823
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:43,720
Howard: agree.
Marc Ronick: If you want, I


824
00:44:43,728 --> 00:44:45,916
agree.
I tell Jonathan Howard: people

825
00:44:45,916 --> 00:44:47,649
that all
the time, Marc
Ronick: but I think you're


826
00:44:47,657 --> 00:44:48,838
right, Jonathan, I can't deny
that.

827
00:44:48,838 --> 00:44:52,659
I work with plenty of new

podcasters, and they all you can

828
00:44:52,659 --> 00:44:55,959
tell either they'll say it out

loud, or you can just tell that

829
00:44:55,959 --> 00:44:58,109
they're uncomfortable talking

about themselves.

830
00:44:58,109 --> 00:44:59,991
It's definitely a practice.
Yes.

831
00:44:59,991 --> 00:45:03,468
Sid,
go ahead.
Sid Meadows: This is a really


832
00:45:03,476 --> 00:45:06,210
interesting question, because I
think that when you ask a


833
00:45:06,218 --> 00:45:09,255
podcaster, I think this is the
core of the problem, right?

834
00:45:09,255 --> 00:45:13,215
When
you ask a podcaster who
their show is for, what their

835
00:45:13,215 --> 00:45:17,124
show is
about, and how their
show helps their ideal listener,

836
00:45:17,124 --> 00:45:19,244
they
struggle to answer that
question.

837
00:45:19,244 --> 00:45:21,965
It was some of the
most
foundational things that you

838
00:45:21,965 --> 00:45:23,780
really need to know.
But
I've talked to a ton of

839
00:45:23,780 --> 00:45:26,780
podcasters when they ask these

questions that I get blank

840
00:45:26,780 --> 00:45:30,260
stares or I don't really know,

and I think once you truly

841
00:45:30,260 --> 00:45:34,040
understand that, and you know

who, who you're talking to, what

842
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,713
the problems they have, and how
your show solves those

843
00:45:36,713 --> 00:45:40,188
problems, then you should be
able to
clearly articulate

844
00:45:40,188 --> 00:45:44,092
what your show is, very easily,
you should
have that quote,

845
00:45:44,092 --> 00:45:46,540
unquote elevator pitch
available, where
it comes off

846
00:45:46,540 --> 00:45:48,364
very naturally.
This is my show, and this is


847
00:45:48,372 --> 00:45:49,800
where you can listen Marc
Ronick: to it.

848
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,530
Yeah, fair
enough.
Sid, I think that's a great

849
00:45:51,530 --> 00:45:53,280
point.
And let me just
make sure

850
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,367
anyone else want to chime in?
No, and by the way, we
lost.

851
00:45:57,367 --> 00:45:59,200
Dr, yes, Ralph, go ahead.
Yeah.

852
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,619
Ralph Estep Jr: I was gonna say
something John said in the

853
00:46:01,619 --> 00:46:03,831
chat.
He said, It's the old the olds,

854
00:46:03,831 --> 00:46:06,335
the Luddites, most love
podcasts, but they're too


855
00:46:06,343 --> 00:46:09,257
stubborn to listen.
That's where I think video is

856
00:46:09,257 --> 00:46:12,264
going to win
the day, because
everybody understands how TV

857
00:46:12,264 --> 00:46:14,880
works.
And
you could say, go to this

858
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,640
channel, and that's where I

think the video is going to be

859
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,740
such a big thing, because I

think the older generation,

860
00:46:19,740 --> 00:46:22,160
there's a lot of friction in

podcasts, there's a lot of

861
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,800
friction to go get a podcast app

and then go search for the

862
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,040
podcast, whereas if I can send

them to a direct website or I

863
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,740
can send them to a channel, I

think it just works a lot

864
00:46:30,740 --> 00:46:33,068
easier.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I agree with

865
00:46:33,068 --> 00:46:36,983
you, Ralph, and I will say
this, as a guy who has been in

866
00:46:36,983 --> 00:46:41,210
this
podcast space for over 20
years, I can tell you that it's

867
00:46:41,210 --> 00:46:43,060
come a
long way with older
audiences.

868
00:46:43,060 --> 00:46:48,160
Back when I was, let's say, my

first 10 years of podcasting, it

869
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,580
was like pulling teeth try

trying to explain podcasting,

870
00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:56,100
trying to teach older people how

to even consume a podcast.

871
00:46:56,100 --> 00:46:58,024
And it's come a really long way.



872
00:46:58,032 --> 00:47:01,522
There are a lot more people now
that get it older and younger.


873
00:47:01,530 --> 00:47:03,628
And by the way, side note
younger.

874
00:47:03,628 --> 00:47:06,900
That just reminded me.

I can't tell you how many

875
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,000
college grads I heard talking

about podcasts in conversation

876
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,037
while I was at my stepson's

graduation this past weekend.

877
00:47:16,037 --> 00:47:17,855
It just in casual conversation.


878
00:47:17,863 --> 00:47:21,180
Similarly, Ralph, like what you
were just saying, where we used

879
00:47:21,180 --> 00:47:24,386
to say, oh, did you catch that
show on TV?

880
00:47:24,386 --> 00:47:28,574
It's now those
conversations
with the younger people are now

881
00:47:28,574 --> 00:47:31,564
about podcasts
and which I
just found fascinating and

882
00:47:31,564 --> 00:47:33,856
really exciting
at the same
time.

883
00:47:33,856 --> 00:47:38,162
Sid, go ahead, Sid Meadows: I
don't totally
agree with

884
00:47:38,162 --> 00:47:40,158
Ralph's position on video,
right?

885
00:47:40,158 --> 00:47:42,859
Don't totally
agree on it,
Marc Ronick: yeah, Sid Meadows:

886
00:47:42,859 --> 00:47:45,346
but I understand
it.
But I think what's important to

887
00:47:45,346 --> 00:47:49,180
think about is you're

evaluating your show, and what

888
00:47:49,180 --> 00:47:52,180
you're doing with your content

that our audiences are getting

889
00:47:52,180 --> 00:47:56,500
younger, and you're going to

attract Gen Z and at some point

890
00:47:56,500 --> 00:48:00,720
in time, likely Gen alpha into

your ecosystem, and they are a

891
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:05,340
video first generation, so

there's a lot of validity to

892
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,940
exploring what you can do with

your show as it relates to

893
00:48:08,940 --> 00:48:11,670
video, where you need to put it,

how you need to embrace it.

894
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:14,328
What does it cost you to do X, Y
and
Z?

895
00:48:14,328 --> 00:48:17,286
Because the younger generation
is going to be video
first and

896
00:48:17,286 --> 00:48:19,371
not audio first.
Marc Ronick: Yeah.

897
00:48:19,371 --> 00:48:20,552
Thank you.
I
appreciate that.

898
00:48:20,552 --> 00:48:22,270
Sid.
And also, by the way, I wanted

899
00:48:22,270 --> 00:48:25,784
to throw
out there that when I
did hear some of these college

900
00:48:25,784 --> 00:48:29,620
grads
talking about podcasts,
yeah, I did ask a couple of

901
00:48:29,620 --> 00:48:31,668
them, do you
watch or do you
listen?

902
00:48:31,668 --> 00:48:34,794
But of the three, only one said
that
they prefer watching

903
00:48:34,794 --> 00:48:36,718
video.
The other two were like, Oh no,

904
00:48:36,718 --> 00:48:40,202
I
just like to listen when I'm
working out or when I'm walking

905
00:48:40,202 --> 00:48:42,385
to class, etc, etc.
So we'll see.

906
00:48:42,385 --> 00:48:44,095
We'll see where this goes

again.

907
00:48:44,095 --> 00:48:47,485
I just think what's going to
happen is video will become


908
00:48:47,493 --> 00:48:51,395
even more popular in podcasting.
But I don't necessarily agree


909
00:48:51,403 --> 00:48:56,175
with Ralph yet that it's going
to be the primary source at some

910
00:48:56,175 --> 00:48:57,088

point.
We'll see.

911
00:48:57,088 --> 00:48:58,651
We'll see.
All right, let's see.

912
00:48:58,651 --> 00:49:00,384
Do we have
time?
Yeah, let's do it.

913
00:49:00,384 --> 00:49:02,280
Ralph, you want to take the last
story.

914
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:05,460
Ralph Estep Jr: Absolutely,

podcasting has a new problem.

915
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,260
Not too few awards, too many

awards.

916
00:49:08,260 --> 00:49:11,068
Now, there was a four piece by
Frank racioppi.

917
00:49:11,068 --> 00:49:14,460
I think
I got his name right.
And he argues, yeah, well, at

918
00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:16,872
least it
sounded good.
I look good doing it right.

919
00:49:16,872 --> 00:49:20,103
He argues that the
podcast
industry is now crowded with

920
00:49:20,103 --> 00:49:23,480
trophies and ceremonies,

categories, badges and honors,

921
00:49:23,780 --> 00:49:26,327
and there might not be any real
way to stop it.

922
00:49:26,327 --> 00:49:29,270
On the surface, you could say
that sounds like a
good thing.

923
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:31,700
More words means more
recognition, more creators


924
00:49:31,708 --> 00:49:34,244
getting celebrated, more
independent shows get a chance


925
00:49:34,252 --> 00:49:36,440
to be seen.
But here's the business problem,

926
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,216
when every
corner of the
industry has its own award, the

927
00:49:40,216 --> 00:49:44,071
value of winning
starts to
blur for creators, award can be

928
00:49:44,071 --> 00:49:46,840
marketing assets.

It can go on a website, in a

929
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,171
media kit, or in a sponsorship

pitch.

930
00:49:49,171 --> 00:49:52,012
For award organizers, it can
become a business model
built

931
00:49:52,012 --> 00:49:54,724
around entry fees.
We talked a lot about this on

932
00:49:54,724 --> 00:49:57,186
this
show, sponsorships,
events and industry visibility

933
00:49:57,186 --> 00:49:59,759
and for
advertising network
and listeners.

934
00:49:59,759 --> 00:50:02,340
Is it raises a harder

question, and this is the

935
00:50:02,340 --> 00:50:05,880
question we really got to center

in on, which awards actually

936
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,608
mean something?
That's where the
podcast

937
00:50:07,608 --> 00:50:11,160
industry has to be careful.
Awards can signal
quality, but

938
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,760
they aren't a substitute for
audience trust,
for strong

939
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,398
production and for consistent
publishing.

940
00:50:16,398 --> 00:50:19,856
Or here's
what I talk about in
the show all the time, real

941
00:50:19,856 --> 00:50:23,192
relationship
with listeners.
A trophy might help open a door,

942
00:50:23,192 --> 00:50:25,368
but it doesn't
build the
business by itself.

943
00:50:25,368 --> 00:50:28,880
So the takeaway is this, podcast

creators shouldn't ignore

944
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:29,896
awards.
I think they're great.


945
00:50:29,904 --> 00:50:33,488
I'd love to have a bunch of them
myself, but they also shouldn't

946
00:50:33,488 --> 00:50:36,676
build their strategy around
those ask better questions.

947
00:50:36,676 --> 00:50:39,835
Who
judged this award?
What was the criteria?

948
00:50:39,835 --> 00:50:43,180
Does it matter to your

audience, and does it help

949
00:50:43,180 --> 00:50:44,728
sponsors understand your value?


950
00:50:44,736 --> 00:50:48,340
Because in the crowded awards
market, the smartest creators


951
00:50:48,348 --> 00:50:50,992
won't just chase recognition,
they'll chase credibility.

952
00:50:50,992 --> 00:50:53,980
And I
think that's really what
we got to focus in on here Mark,

953
00:50:53,980 --> 00:50:55,738

because I agree with what the
article said.

954
00:50:55,738 --> 00:50:58,240
I think there is a

proliferation of these and

955
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:01,080
there's a business model here

where these awards, companies

956
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,320
can make a ton of money by

offering these awards with the

957
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,040
entry fees, but what's the value

of those who is judging it and

958
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,805
who's looking at it?
Marc Ronick: Yeah, good point,


959
00:51:10,813 --> 00:51:13,386
but yeah.
I mean, look, I think I've taken

960
00:51:13,386 --> 00:51:17,040
a break from applying
to
awards because a lot of these

961
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:22,040
are expensive, and how far do

they really go for us as

962
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:23,630
creators.
I think that they are


963
00:51:23,638 --> 00:51:28,500
something that we can use to
hang our hat on, to to spice up

964
00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:30,708
our marketing campaigns and
efforts, right?

965
00:51:30,708 --> 00:51:34,112
It's something
that we can we
can say, Yes, we're award

966
00:51:34,112 --> 00:51:38,398
winning, but I don't
think I
feel comfortable applying to

967
00:51:38,398 --> 00:51:42,646
even say, let's say
the top
three major podcasting awards

968
00:51:42,646 --> 00:51:45,090
out there.
I don't know
that I feel

969
00:51:45,090 --> 00:51:47,954
comfortable doing that year
after year, because I
just

970
00:51:47,954 --> 00:51:50,464
don't think the investment is
worth the return.

971
00:51:50,464 --> 00:51:53,500
I'm curious
if anybody else
thinks differently, but I don't

972
00:51:53,500 --> 00:51:55,000
see
anybody responding anyone
else.

973
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,734
So, yeah, go ahead.
Sid, Sid Meadows: I'm just

974
00:51:57,734 --> 00:51:59,680
curious.

I'm just curious if I've never

975
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:01,504
applied for an award.
I think
about it.

976
00:52:01,504 --> 00:52:04,376
When I get the emails about it,
or I see it posted
somewhere,

977
00:52:04,376 --> 00:52:07,413
I think about it, and then I'm
like, which episode do
I

978
00:52:07,413 --> 00:52:09,804
submit?
And I got just like, I get stuck

979
00:52:09,804 --> 00:52:12,939
in my own way with it,
right?
But I wonder, listening to you

980
00:52:12,939 --> 00:52:16,348
talk about it, is an
award
just another vanity metric?

981
00:52:16,348 --> 00:52:19,494
Does it really mean
anything?
Is it really going to grow your

982
00:52:19,494 --> 00:52:21,148
show?
Is it really
other than the

983
00:52:21,148 --> 00:52:23,668
recognition that you're an award
winning
podcaster, which is

984
00:52:23,668 --> 00:52:25,124
great, right, to be realized
like that.


985
00:52:25,132 --> 00:52:27,950
Don't get me wrong, but I'm just
wondering, is it just to the


986
00:52:27,958 --> 00:52:30,584
point of the article?
There's so many awards now, is

987
00:52:30,584 --> 00:52:32,910
it?
Is it
just more noise and just

988
00:52:32,910 --> 00:52:34,880
a vanity metric that makes you

feel good?

989
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,180
I don't know, some question,
Ralph Estep Jr: and I think


990
00:52:38,188 --> 00:52:41,028
that's the whole point.
Sid, in our industry, if someone

991
00:52:41,028 --> 00:52:45,028
is a
Hall of Fame podcaster, I
think that brings credibility.

992
00:52:45,028 --> 00:52:47,440
I think
everybody can say, oh,
there's value there.

993
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,800
But again, that's
and that's
what the article is saying.

994
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,194
Sid is, think you got to
pick
and choose which ones you're

995
00:52:52,194 --> 00:52:54,134
actually going to look at
and
say, this has value.

996
00:52:54,134 --> 00:52:57,179
And I think that's the problem.
Is
we've got to go back to in

997
00:52:57,179 --> 00:53:00,473
the movie industry, if somebody
wins
an Academy Award, I mean,

998
00:53:00,473 --> 00:53:03,268
that is the award, right?
But if we
get to the point

999
00:53:03,268 --> 00:53:06,194
where, you know, the podcasting,
morning
show, annual awards,

1000
00:53:06,194 --> 00:53:07,968
you know, is there credibility
there?


1001
00:53:07,976 --> 00:53:10,740
Sure, because we know what we're
doing, but at what point are


1002
00:53:10,748 --> 00:53:13,620
there so many awards that people
just say, okay, yeah, another


1003
00:53:13,628 --> 00:53:15,780
award winning.
Big deal, because you can go buy

1004
00:53:15,780 --> 00:53:17,220
awards.
Let me
just let you down a

1005
00:53:17,220 --> 00:53:18,720
little secret.
There are websites out
there

1006
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:21,629
right now that you can go spend
some money, and they will
give

1007
00:53:21,629 --> 00:53:23,980
you an Award in the category
that you choose.

1008
00:53:23,980 --> 00:53:26,420
So
what is the value of that
award?

1009
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,000
Marc Ronick: Yeah, zero.
And
also Yeah, when you think

1010
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,918
about things like the Academy
Awards,
when there is value

1011
00:53:32,918 --> 00:53:35,920
there, because they are paying
for it,
right, the either the

1012
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,184
team or the celebrities they're
paying
to play, right?

1013
00:53:39,184 --> 00:53:44,028
And when they win that award,
their popularity
goes up,

1014
00:53:44,028 --> 00:53:48,125
their paychecks go up right like
when they get a new
movie

1015
00:53:48,125 --> 00:53:50,032
deal.
Now, as an Academy Award winner,

1016
00:53:50,032 --> 00:53:53,680
they can up that
ante.
So yeah, there are advantages

1017
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:55,840
there.
I don't think
as podcasters,

1018
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:00,471
we get even similar advantages
to that type
of thing, but

1019
00:54:00,471 --> 00:54:04,698
there are some advantages to it.
You can
promote that you can

1020
00:54:04,698 --> 00:54:08,640
it can maybe help you with your
credibility, if that's one of

1021
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,750
the things that you're after.

All right, great show today.

1022
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:13,758
We are back tomorrow, 8am
Eastern.


1023
00:54:13,766 --> 00:54:16,240
Ralph, do you want to tease
tomorrow's show?

1024
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:18,860
We have
somebody in the
audience who will be a guest

1025
00:54:18,860 --> 00:54:19,860
tomorrow?
Oh Ralph Estep Jr: yeah, we're


1026
00:54:19,868 --> 00:54:20,670
gonna have a great show
tomorrow.

1027
00:54:20,670 --> 00:54:23,204
We're going to have
the great
John Domingo on the show, and

1028
00:54:23,204 --> 00:54:26,306
he's going to talk
about how
to get along with your co hosts,

1029
00:54:26,306 --> 00:54:28,636
because John is the
expert at
this.

1030
00:54:28,636 --> 00:54:30,767
He's been through a few of them
he shared
with me.

1031
00:54:30,767 --> 00:54:32,840
So John's going to join us
tomorrow on the show, and
he's

1032
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,400
going to tell us all, because a
lot of us have co
hosts, Mark

1033
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,872
and I are sort of doing that.
And so we're going
to learn.

1034
00:54:37,872 --> 00:54:40,480
We're going to lean in and learn
what he has learned,
the easy

1035
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,858
way, the hard way, what not to
do and what works.

1036
00:54:42,858 --> 00:54:45,640
So
make sure you join us
tomorrow at 8am for that show

1037
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:47,590
with John
Domingo.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, it'll be


1038
00:54:47,598 --> 00:54:48,996
interesting.
From my perspective, having

1039
00:54:48,996 --> 00:54:53,296
multiple co
hosts all the
time, and I think that I do a

1040
00:54:53,296 --> 00:54:55,845
pretty good job of
getting
along with most of my co hosts,

1041
00:54:55,845 --> 00:54:59,428
I think all of my co
hosts.
But yes, looking forward to

1042
00:54:59,428 --> 00:55:00,340
that.
So I will.

1043
00:55:00,340 --> 00:55:03,440
Be happy to
share more about
that tomorrow when we talk with

1044
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,360
John.
John,
thank you for offering

1045
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,160
to do that or being a part of

tomorrow's show.

1046
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,940
Looking forward to it 8am
Eastern to find out
where to

1047
00:55:11,940 --> 00:55:14,955
watch, where to listen live or
recorded.

1048
00:55:14,955 --> 00:55:17,546
Just go to
podcasting morning
show.com/join.

1049
00:55:17,546 --> 00:55:22,640
Us and until
tomorrow, make it
a great day.

1050
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:23,540
Everybody.
Take care.

1051
00:55:23,540 --> 00:55:23,840
Bye.