516. How Niche Podcasts Win With Smaller Audiences

0:05 Marc Ronick: Good morning Today is Wednesday, May the 13th, 2026 and today, AI podcasts are raising big questions about trust. Video is feeling more intimidating than ever, and Podcast Awards might not be the growth boost creators are hoping for. So if you're listening live on clubhouse, hit the share button top right hand side of the screen and share it however clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn, etc, And now give us about 30 seconds, and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here.

0:50 The podcasting Morning Show is powered by ironic media helping podcasters launch polish and grow great shows, and by content creators, accountant helping creators build real Business behind their content. Good morning again. Podcasting morning show. Thank you for being here, and I emphasize show, because I'm still getting used to saying it that way. I am your host, Mark ronick, and currently on stage with me. We have Sid Meadows.

1:34 Ralph Estep, DR Fay, Jonathan well, and I think I got Yes, I did okay, because I have to look in both places, both on clubhouse and on Riverside. That's where, that's what we use to stream this show to YouTube and elsewhere. And before we get into today's topics, want to quickly remind you that later today, 1pm Eastern Time, empowered podcasting, live returns. It's our live stream show. We don't do it as a podcast. We only do it as a live stream. And today we have one of our events. Creator partners, Sid meadows, show. We'll dig into Sid's success, monetizing his podcast in 2026 and his new private podcast project that we haven't talked about at all here really yet.

2:27 And of course, we'll also just dig into some of his experiences as a podcaster, and of course, his experience at empowered podcasting. So join us at podcasting morning So we're going to dig right into today's news, because normally news takes up quite a bit of the And also, Ralph, I'm just going to tell you right now have the Creator business bite. Sound bite handy, because it keeps disappearing from my board, and I don't understand why we're not getting to it quite yet, but I'm just giving you that forewarning. The way I do like to start this show, particularly news and comment, is with some data for you, and I have some new data also to share with you.

3:15 But first, this comes from Journal, and this is a quote active podcasts are, and then podcasts are actually putting Podcasts. A helpful number to understand the amount of podcasts being created is the total number of quote, unquote, active podcasts. These are podcasts that still are being updated and therefore actively marketing themselves. If you're making podcast episodes, you might consider this number to be your competition, rather than that big overall, 4.6 million has on record with that total this past week were 197,127 so over 3% from the previous week.

4:08 And if you're curious, over the last 30 days, 370,096 podcasts updated, which is up overall 2% from the previous month. Now I said that I have some other data for you. This is more or less an fits this category quite well. YouTube wins on Discovery. This comes from pod news. Spotify may be giving podcasters deeper consumption than YouTube according to new data from pod stock. So it's pod News reported it. Pod stock put out this data.

4:49 Their analysis found that a single Spotify stream generates about 1.5 times more consumption time than a YouTube view of the same Podcast Episode I. Should say. So here's the twist, YouTube discovery power and spotify's own discovery spikes can bring in more casual samplers or audiences, which may drag down average time spent, even when overall reach is growing. So here are some details. First, pod stock analyzed 1000s of full length video podcast episodes published on both Spotify and YouTube, and it was all within that same release time window. In 95% of those episodes, Spotify listeners spent more time with the same podcast content than YouTube viewers. Pod stock says that this may make Spotify streams a stronger signal of audience engagement, especially of advertisers looking beyond raw views, which I hope they are. The data also shows a classic growth trade off when episodes reach broader less familiar audiences, average time spent per view or stream often drops in the 5% of cases where consumption time pod stock says many of those episodes had unusually strong discovery lots of new samplers. And we're saying samplers because it doesn't mean that they've locked in to your show

6:20 or a podcast, it means that they the podcast captured their attention in some way, shape or form, and somebody pressed play. Doesn't mean they listened for long periods of time. So the big takeaway for podcasters is that one platform metric rarely tells the whole story. Reach, watch, time, Completion, discovery and audience intent, all need to be looked at together and then for indie creators, this is another reminder that YouTube and Spotify may serve different jobs. YouTube can help people find you, and what this report be where deeper podcast So I thought that was good info, about how Spotify and now Apple are trying to come and get into this video game, compete with And I just think I don't know. My question for you guys is, would you rather have fewer people spending more time with your episode, or more people sample it for a shorter amount of time? Right?

7:27 And I know in some ways that this might seem like an obvious question, but or an obvious answer to the question, but I think that this is something that we should stop and pause and think about for a second. So Ralph, what say you Ralph Estep Jr: I have a question first, because I'm not a Spotify user. I know if you don't subscribe to YouTube and you put your phone in your pocket, it stops playing. But what does Spotify do in that Marc Ronick: So first, I will if you pay for their premium it? Marc Ronick: You can actually turn it off and put it in your pocket. Ralph Estep Jr: I do that all didn't know how Spotify played be a little bias in their data. Marc Ronick: Oh yeah, why is that? Ralph Estep Jr: Because if Spotify doesn't do the exact same thing that YouTube does, so If I'm on Spotify and I'm phone down, or I put it in my is going to roll that data subscribers on YouTube. I'm not saying that's the issue, right? It's just, I will tell you personally, like, I don't get a lot of traction on Spotify, so for me, that's the hard part. That's the hard part to I don't say I don't believe it, but that's the hard part to believe.

8:40 question, I don't know. It depends, like, like, sort of like Cindy said spray and pray. Or do you want active, engaged listeners that are going to buy your products and services and tell other people about your show? That's the trade off, isn't it? Mark, Marc Ronick: yeah, it is. That is the trade off. And, yeah, I don't know. I feel like with Spotify. Now I also pay for Spotify, so I might not be the best person to ask that, because I feel like with Spotify, yes, I can turn it, I can put the phone on sleep mode, and I can still hear it playing so, and I don't know if that's making you cringe, Ralph, because it's it means that I'm paying for multiple subscriptions to things. Ralph Estep Jr: No, if, hey, if it serves you, my friend, I don't understand why people don't pay for YouTube to me to not have to watch commercials.

9:21 It makes no sense to me, because my time is worth a lot more than Fay: a month. It wouldn't because paying for it, I Ralph Estep Jr: agree, because we don't think about our opportunity cost of our time. And as much as I'm a numbers guy, your time is worth money as I actually noticed that when I was on my road trip this past weekend, when Amy was playing podcasts through YouTube, it was minutes, a commercial would interrupt the show, and I just couldn't stand it. I was like, why aren't we listening with my YouTube We need to do that. We didn't for whatever reason.

10:01 But yeah, it's annoying and worth, well worth the $13 a month. I can't begin to stress that enough. If you are privileged enough to be able to afford that, by all means, I encourage you to do that. Sid had something, and then Janae did too. Go ahead. Sid, good morning. Sid Meadows: Good morning everybody. And you're actually hitting on the topic I wanted to ask about so does Spotify have all the ads in there? Because I don't watch on I don't watch podcasts, but I if I did, I mean, I'm not watching YouTube or whatever Spotify. But does Spotify have ads? Marc Ronick: Spotify does if you you're using the free service. Sid Meadows: Are there? Are they as many ads as it is filtered, Marc Ronick: it can be pretty obnoxious sometimes. Yes, okay, because Sid Meadows: I just was wondering if that was the difference, right, if people were watching on Spotify, because there was either no ads or less ads, because, as you said, they are quite annoying.

10:52 So that was more about just curiosity, Marc Ronick: yep, yep. I think when we're comparing the two free versions, I think they're very similar as far as commercial usage for sure, and Sid Meadows: I would answer, I would answer the question. I would answer the question real question was, just one If I get somebody to come and to listen and then subscribe and or become part of my ecosystem. That's what I would Marc Ronick: prefer, very cool. And this is coming from a guy who sells ad time on his podcast. So there's something to be said about that. Yeah, Sid Meadows: cool. Let's correct that. Let's correct that.

11:32 I do not sell ad time. Marc Ronick: Okay, sorry, I'm using radio Sid Meadows: language. Have spots? Yeah? Marc Ronick: That's just a I think, yeah, that's fair. Sid, and I appreciate the correction. Jonathan, I'm coming to you in a we'll keep things moving here with more news and comment. But first Junaid, go for it. Good morning. Junaid: Good morning, because world. It doesn't matter if you have the screen locked or unlocked, they're still going to count it as a stream or a download. Same thing with Apple podcast, it's streaming. So I think that accurate stats that day, because after all, most people that are listening to an podcast or on either of the platforms, they are not looking at their phone because they're listening to an audio right? So think about that, and Spotify and Apple both have the ability to switch from video to audio and audio to video, so when you lock that screen, the audio continues to play, and you can go about your business, making chicken or whatever. Marc Ronick: Thank you.

12:40 Junaid, by the way, John in the chat says, What's the difference between sponsors and selling ad time? Isn't it the same? John? I think by definition, yes, it probably is. And I think Sid would probably agree with me. I think it's a mindset thing. I think it's just the way that we approach those sponsors, those advertisers, and the way we approach that situation. Yes, Sid is agreeing with me there. I think that's really what it comes down to John. And speaking of John's, let's go to Jonathan. about that you you will not pay for the YouTube premium service. And I'm curious. Why not? Jonathan Howard: I refuse. I don't know. I have trouble paying for social media in general. It's just against what I like to do. Yeah, and it's one of those things as many times. Plus, they're really aggressive with their you got to buy it. You got to buy it.

13:27 You got to buy it every time you sign on. It makes me crazy. That's all, Marc Ronick: well, I'm telling you, it's worth it. I promise you, it's really worth it. Jonathan Howard: And according I would say it depends on your If you're looking to get more, you know, new listeners, then you'll go one way. If you're looking to just have really invested people, you go the other way. Marc Ronick: Yeah, fair enough. Okay, cool. Well, let me keep things moving with Dr, here actually, oh, I didn't have my music queued up, so I'm not gonna play it. Dr, you have a top five list for D.R. Fay: us. I do have the top five list. Good morning, everyone. Okay, the first top we usually I read off the Spotify, and then I go to a random but in the past couple weeks, we've been doing just two random charts. So the top five, and this one is the top five education for kids.

14:16 Marc Ronick: And where is this This list, D.R. Fay: this one comes from Apple, okay, okay. Number five is terrestrials. Number four is smalllogies with Ally ward. Number three is smash boom. Best a funny, smart debate show for kids and family. Number two is brains on science positive. Number one, Ralph Estep Jr: good. Night, good night. Dr, take a breath. Oh my gosh. Gotta beat the timpani. The Marc Ronick: timpani, the number one is Wow, in the world. There it is. Now that second, third one was a long title, yes, and because of that.

14:59 You kind of swallowed the second one. The second one was brains on D.R. Fay: on science podcast for Marc Ronick: Cool, very cool. Just, I don't, we don't see a lot of kids, but I guess for an education category, that makes sense. D.R. Fay: Yeah. And by the way, I think that number two and number three brains on and smash boom, best are in the same network. Marc Ronick: Oh, okay, D.R. Fay: okay. And so the next one, you know what? I touched some onions, and I touched my eyes, and now my eyes are watering. Marc Ronick: Oh, so, oh, so wait. So we've learned something new. The eggs sometimes includes D.R. Fay: I don't, I think from last I don't know. I know, I don't know.

15:40 Okay, Marc Ronick: okay, go ahead. D.R. Fay: Dang, okay. Onions Ralph Estep Jr: are hard in the morning. Yes. D.R. Fay: Are hard in the morning, Marc Ronick: anytime. D.R. Fay: And speaking of onions and eggs, the random chart has to do with the top five best food podcasts. Number five is the chef's cut. Number four is the best five minute wine podcast. Number three is walk and talk. Podcast number two is meat church podcast, and the number one podcast is things bakers know, the King Arthur's baking podcast, Marc Ronick: and that is the random chart of the week.

16:21 Dr sitting back in her chair, the random chart of the week, And very appropriate. Dr, although I can't say too much, I can say I've shared with you all my stepson, Matthew, and it's Matthew B cooks the letter B on Instagram, and I think on Tiktok, same handle, he does cooking videos, content creation, cooking videos, and He's got some good traction And I've shared with you guys that he had a major opportunity available or made to him with a big time content creator. And I can't say any more than that, other than just to say that he did verbally get the offer, and now we're waiting I hope, depending on what the signs it, I can actually tell is so relevant to our world. All I'll say is, that it's a perfect example of creating content that you love and that you're passionate about, and just putting it out there with no expectations other than it's something you like doing.

17:34 And from that, the results that have come from that mindset and that approach, the results are exactly what I think we all hope for. Right is to be seen, to get big opportunities, or any opportunities, for that matter, and potentially a very financially strong opportunity. with you all about it. I am telling you now you're going to be blown away when I tell you what the opportunity is and who the creator is that he's going to be working with. So more to come on that one. All right, let's see here some quickly, some events. The podcast show in London just added a bunch of new speakers.

18:18 James cridlin from pod news kicks off day one with the new pod news, report card results. Apple podcasts. Susie warhurst will talk video with a cast Laura Hagan and I said it like that, ooh, Apple podcast, because they don't do a lot of conventions, but they do the podcast show they've been there before. Day two brings YouTube's Steve McClendon and Stella Binns for a deep dive into YouTube's podcast strategy and where creators fill into it. And yes, that was written by AI. Deep Dive being the telltale sign, also, if you're new to this show, or perhaps living under a rock empowered podcasting conference three is happening August 21 through the 23rd in Charlotte, North Carolina.

19:06 And if you're an indie or DIY podcaster who wants to connect, create and grow alongside people who truly get it, this is where you want to be. So come for the education, stay for the community, and leave with a lot of new ideas, new relationships and real momentum for your podcast. Visit empowered podcasting.com to grab your ticket today and do it before May 15, because prices go up then. And by the way, again, I'll just quickly remind you, one o'clock today live, go to live, yours truly will be you updates on the event, some scenes, info about it, and also, a lot of his new monetization private podcast that I'm really excited to hear more about.

20:00 So with that Sid Meadows: drop it, why share my secret? That was a secret. Marc Ronick: No, it wasn't. You said I could talk about it. You said we could talk about it. I texted you last night. All right, you scared me. Hey, Sid. D.R. Fay: Hey, Sid. Are you creating a course on this? Because I think you should, it It could be, I'm thinking Sid Meadows: it could be considered a course, yes. Dr, it's all recorded. It's all ready to go. I just have been having some tech issues, and I hired somebody yesterday to help me with all the tech issues. D.R. Fay: Awesome. Marc Ronick: Sid, are you going to the podcast show at all? I know you're going there to visit your daughter. Sid Meadows: Yeah, no, I forgot about it until you just mentioned it.

20:40 So I'm going to look at it, because I'm my first my first I was, when am I gonna have time? Because I got the weekend with her, and then I'm working during the week. There's a furniture show there that I'm going to we got lots of stuff doing there. And then I'm hanging out my daughter on the weekend as well. And the following weekend, I'll be gone for 10 days, so I will miss you guys. I will try to pop in as much as I can, but I will be absent from the podcasting morning show for the next week or so. And it's interesting. Tie in, so my daughter yesterday fashion publishing company, and they've hired her to be an intern. And so she went yesterday to understand what her role was going to be and what all she was going to be doing during her internship, which she starts this week. She's going to be working on their podcast team. Marc Ronick: Oh, very cool.

21:25 Sid Meadows: Like, did you tell her your dad was a podcaster? And she said, No, it wasn't I said, why not? Of course, it's appropriate. Kid, you D.R. Fay: and your daughter should go to Marc Ronick: the convention together. Sid Meadows: I may try to grab She does not have school on Wednesdays and Thursdays, so I may try to grab her one day and see if we can pop over there for Marc Ronick: Yeah, and Sid Meadows: the, think about me Marc Ronick: and the dates, by didn't share, I believe that's in that area, now you know All right, so with that, Ralph, quick tip, smart move. Content creators business bite.

22:10 And today's business bite is Ralph E step Jr, of content is a licensed accountant with helping creators navigate taxes, of their business with more stress. And he's also my accountant. I'm happy to recommend Ralph, and you can learn more again at content creators accountant.com All right, Ralph, what are we diving into? Ralph Estep Jr: Good morning, everybody. I have a great Arctic hero to talk about for years, podcast advertising has followed a simple rule, and we all bigger audience, bigger value, starting to crack. A new piece from pod news argues that smaller niche Podcasts can outperform larger shows. Now you did.

23:02 You heard me right? Smaller niche Podcasts can actually outperform larger shows because they don't just deliver listeners. They deliver intent. And I want us to think about this for a second. A broad Lifestyle Podcast might reach 50,000 people, and we always say, Oh, that's great. I'm hitting 50,000 people, but a training, startup growth or are already thinking about a purchase or a decision they need because advertisers aren't What advertisers are really buying are outcomes, and when a listener plus is play because they're researching or they're comparing or they're learning, act, that intention is more that's where niche podcasts have Their audience can be smaller, but their context is clearer, and the listeners mindset is easy to understand, and the brand message can feel less like an interruption and more like part of the conversation. Now I love where AI is going with this, because AI can accelerate this shift by helping advertisers identify those high intent moments across Ai just makes it easier to see.

24:13 So here's the business takeaway, selling themselves only on Let me get an amen to that one and start selling the moment. What is the listener trying to solve? What decisions are they close to making? And how does your show put a sponsor in the right place at the right time? Because in podcasting, the next big pricing advantage may not belong to the biggest audience. It may belong to the most relevant one, and that's your business. Bite in media scale gets attention, but intent gets results, and we're all looking for results. Mark, Marc Ronick: oh yeah, we are. Thank you, Ralph. And that fits very nicely with the question that I asked earlier, right? Would you rather have one or casual? And I didn't answer the question and I. Look, I think that, I think instinctively, I gravitate to the download numbers, right?

25:06 It's just like you see all these numbers, and when they, especially when they're growing, and you can get tied up into that. And I got to tell you, that feeling in comparison to the feeling of the download numbers, they don't compare. It gives me such a boost, such a bigger rush getting that kind of feedback versus seeing our download numbers growing. Yeah. So I think that for me, I think when it really comes down to it, I'd much rather have a smaller audience with dedicated community members versus just seeing big download numbers all the time. Ralph Estep Jr: And I'll take it in your pocket too? Marc Ronick: Yeah, Ralph Estep Jr: if you're actually making money with your content, I don't really care how many downloads you have.

25:50 Show me the money. Marc Ronick: Yeah, because Ralph Estep Jr: that's going to make me feel a lot better. But I know what you're saying. It's almost soul crushing. When you look at the download numbers, you're like, nobody's hearing this. But man, if I because there are a lot of people with a lot of downloads who are broke, and that's so that's a nice thing to look at, but if it's not putting money in your pocket, if you're in it to make money, then that's an issue. Marc Ronick: Yeah, I that. I definitely agree with you, and I think that it's important to try to monetize if that's your goal, right? And I do really believe based especially on based on that article that you just shared, I really do believe that you can make yourself some good money with a smaller, loyal, dedicated audience, because, let's face it, you get 1000s of downloads, but these are all casual listeners.

26:33 They're probably not even listening long enough to know what to purchase from you, whether it's from a sponsor, whether it's your own products and services. If you have casual listeners, they're not in the know and they're not taking action. That's the message there. Thank you, Ralph, and let's keep things moving. I see that it's 830 so let me also remind you quickly about our Spotlight series, and I know getting some people to respond Ralph behind the scenes, and Ralph and I have been talking, and it's just mind blowing to us. We're giving you a free opportunity to promote your podcast to other podcasters. And yes, I get it that maybe we are not your all of us aren't your target audience, but this is free pub.

27:21 All you got to do is submit a 62nd clip about your show, something that gives our people here a real feel for your podcast, and then if we select it, we'll play your clip and we'll share what stood out to us. We'll introduce your show to our community of podcasters. Just submit your clip. Go to podcasting morning show.com/spotlight, ideally we We would rather you do that than clip of your show. One way you may want to do if you really feel like it's important to you to share a clip, maybe set it up for us. Give us 1015, seconds of what we're about to listen to tell us, maybe briefly about the show, and then we'll play the clip with that little introduction, something to think about.

28:10 But either way, podcasting morning show.com/slash spotlight, and we will feature your show if you submit it. And thank you to those of you who have already submitted. All right, so let's get into some news bytes. We've been talking a little bit about Spotify today. So appropriately, Spotify is rolling out a new verified by Spotify badge, specifically right now for music artists. And I think that this is something that podcasters should still be paying attention to. And shout out to Steven Cofer, tipping me off to this. He sent this to me last night. in our empowered podcasting So verified by Spotify is about giving listeners a clear signal that an artist's profile is authentic and trusted and not AI. Spotify says eligibility includes things like consistent listener activity, staying in good standing with the platform policies, and showing signs of a real artist presence on and off the platform. By the way, I'll just say side note. I'm curious about those standards and how they're going to track all of that, but we shall see. Like I said, this is currently for music artists, which makes sense with AI generated content and content arms, muddying things up.

29:29 But I do think there's a bigger podcasting conversation here. If Spotify eventually brings this to podcasts, verification could become a credible a credibility sign that positively affects trust discovery and whether new listeners feel confident about hitting play on that podcast and slop. I know we say AI slop a lot, but podslop seems to be a term that's. Been forming lately. These are already becoming a thing, and podcast verification may become another credibility layer creators have to earn this next story.

30:11 Dr, number two, I would love for you to take D.R. Fay: absolutely okay, so only fans is making a bigger play for podcast creators, launching new community pages for sports, comedy and podcast podcasts announced by CEO, is it Keely? Do you think it's pronounced Keely? CEO, Marc Ronick: a, Keely. Blair, I think so. D.R. Fay: K, e, i, L, Y, yes. Keeley. Blair, at the OMR festival in Hamburg. And Marc Ronick: I want to just say, Dr, that just so we're very clear. We are not saying true fans. We are fans of true fans. We had Sam Sethi on the show, D.R. Fay: This is the one that we always say. It's not Marc Ronick: right, right, right. D.R.

30:58 Fay: Okay, yeah, because that had me for a second. So okay, Keely Blair of the OMR festival in Hamburg, Oh, great. Now I'm hungry for a hamburger. Okay, the podcast page is designed Marc Ronick: burger with onions. D.R. Fay: That's the podcast page is designed to spotlight hosts already using the platform for exclusive episodes and fan engagement, including shows like material with Harry jowsey and The company says podcasting is a fans with creators using it to subscriber pages and unlock new revenue opportunities for podcasters. This is another reminder that the premium content conversation keeps spreading across platforms and only fans clearly wants to be seen as more than the internet's spicy paywall. Marc Ronick: Thank you.

32:06 Dr, yeah, so only fans getting in the game of podcasting. Very interesting. D.R. Fay: True fans. Marc Ronick: True fans, is already in the game, and they are a dedicated podcast player. here. Only fans getting in the game. I'm not going to rush to put the podcasting morning show on only fans, unless it really becomes a big thing. But as of now, I think we will keep things where they are. Also in the news. The Golden Globes are opening the podcast door a little wider this year, expanding eligibility for the 84th awards from 25 shows to 30 shows, Luminate will still make the call using its own methodology looking at things engagement, platform, visibility And again, this really doesn't apply to a lot of us indie or DIY podcasters, because they are ones that are out there and the big stars, yes, at least as of now, that's the way that they're another story in the news. This is a little sad to hear.

33:13 The bipoc podcast creators group is closing after five years, and this one stings a little bit. It was founded in 2021 and the organization served more than 2100 bipoc podcast creators built partnerships with NPR, Simplecast, the podcast Academy, Edison Research, Libsyn, Podcast also hosted a lot of sold out events in the US, in London and other areas. But the founders say that the work became unsustainable, and the bigger challenge of initiatives alive when corporate have a discord that they say is going to stay active through the rest of this month, and the website will remain in archive mode. So this is a tough reminder that real takes real labor, real money and real infrastructure.

34:15 Passion can start the engine, but it doesn't pay for the gas forever. There are alternatives out there for those of you who are were a part of this community, clearly, you can look into places like the black podcasters Association. I know several people who run that personally black and brown podcast collective, Latina podcasters network, and the a few. All right, I'm going to keep things moving. Let me look at the time here. Now, normally we were going to do a segment here with BC babbles. He likes to handle the tech side of the news, but BC is at a networking event today, so I'm just going to go right to one of the headlines here, one of the main headlines here. Which is titled video podcasting has grown up, and it's brutal out there.

35:07 So million podcasts. That's a website that, by the way, I was looking into it, because lately, this website has been cited a lot. I've been noticing on places like LinkedIn and other social media platforms and even pod news now are citing this podcasts a lot. I looked into it recently, and they are relatively new, so I'm not going crazy. I think they were founded in 2024 and have got a lot of traction since then. Ralph, did you want to say something about this? Yeah, Ralph Estep Jr: I want to say something about this because a little self promotion here, I just hit number three on million podcast for Christian based finance throughout the world, which was amazing to me.

35:48 Number one was Dave Ramsey. Number two is another one, but I was number three, and I was like, wow, this is really cool. So congratulations. Put that all over the place, but when you mentioned I was like, Oh, I Marc Ronick: got to mention that. Yeah, congratulations. Glad you did. So million podcasts put out a new state of video podcasting 2026 report, and it paints a pretty sharp picture that video podcasting is a serious, mature media format, and the biggest rewards are going to the shows that think beyond I made an episode, quote, unquote, the report analyze, analyzes about 34,000 active English language video podcasts, looking at Platform presence, Episode output, reviews, sponsorships, audio, sorry, audience estimates and format patterns.

36:33 So the report says that the top 10% of shows capture about 85% of all monthly listening hours, while the bottom half shares around 1% the typical video podcast in the report has a modeled monthly audience of around 2000 listeners, while the average is much higher because a small number of massive shows pull The numbers up every top 10 show in the report is on YouTube, and all 10 use guest or interview formats, which says a lot about how discovery and video native conversation formats are shaping the top end of podcasting.

37:16 Also longer episodes appear to have an audience advantage, which that sounds a little surprising, probably to many of you. The report says episodes that are 90 minutes or longer have much higher median reach than shorter formats, although the data shows Association rather than proof that length itself causes growth. So make that mental note also interestingly, reviews matter more than star ratings. count closely tracks listener nearly useless as a popularity ratings cluster near the top audience size. About 23% of shows in the catalog have confirmed sponsorships, and sponsored shows have much larger median audiences than UNsponsored ones. So the report's big strategic takeaway is that multi platform, distribution across YouTube, Apple and Spotify is becoming the baseline for serious video podcasts, especially for creators who want reach discovery and monetization opportunities.

38:31 And with that, I'm curious, does what do we think about this report? Does it make video feel more necessary to you? More intimidating to you, do you feel like the report makes video feel like it's a necessity? But maybe you don't think it is curious what you all think Ralph Estep Jr: about launching video on Apple just as soon as I get approved, I put in the application last week with Apple, so as soon as they say, go for it, I will be live on all my shows on video. Because I think it is a must. That's my personal opinion. I think video is a must. I think that's where the industry is going. And I think if you don't do it, you're going to get left behind. And I know that's not a popular opinion amongst audio podcasters, but I truly believe that's where we are.

39:13 I think people will gravitate towards the video. They can always go back to the audio, but they're going to gravitate towards video so they can see you. Marc Ronick: Yeah, I'm curious I definitely, I can't deny that video isn't a thing for podcasting and won't become a bigger thing as it continues to grow. But I do think that audio, I've said it a million times, audio, will always have a place, and I think that we've shared lots of studies that show that it doesn't look like it's having that video as an option things like discoverability and reach right. So in many ways, I agree with what you're saying, Ralph, that it's going to be a thing, but I don't think it's going to be the only thing. I think that audio will still have its place. Yes, and I know you still don't quite agree with that. No, Ralph Estep Jr: I think audio will always have its place, because if I'm out riding on the mower and I want to cut the grass, I'm not watching a YouTube or an apple video. But given the option between the And I think that's where Apple is going in the right direction.

40:20 And I honestly think the word podcast is going to go away too. I think we're going to just have content. It's not going to be the word podcast anymore. I think that is died and it's on the vine, just rotting away. But again, not a popular sentiment on this show. But I think video is going to finally put the nail in that coffin. Marc Ronick: Bold claims from Ralph E step Jr, we will see if these predictions come to fruition. All right. Dr, what's our next story? D.R. Fay: Oh, can you give me a Oh, thank you coming up. Okay, why? Some people still can't find the play button. Okay, so here's the story. This is perhaps a follow up story from what we did a about your podcast entry point, if you all remember that Forbes is taking a look at people who because, yes, somehow they exist The article argues that even the holdouts still see the format as simply outside their daily The bigger takeaway is that podcasting's next wave of growth may not come from making more shows, but from making the listening experience easier, clearer and more useful for people who never built podcasts into their lives.

41:52 So some of the highlighted points are one barrier is still basic tech friction, especially for people who don't know where to find shows or how podcast apps work. Some non listeners resist even when podcasts fit into I'm sorry. Commutes out workout words are hard in the morning, damn it. Okay. Marc Ronick: Hit it. Ralph. Ralph Estep Jr: We're mouth Guess I forgot words are hard and hard. Did D.R. Fay: I say? Say Ralph Estep Jr: that out loud? Marc Ronick: Ralph and I feel I feel like we need to hit the Jingle for you. Jingle: Now, my screen froze up, the top. Dr, D.R.

42:49 Fay: one barrier is still for people who don't know where to find shows or how podcast apps work. Some non listeners resist changing their media habits, even when podcasts fit into commutes, workouts, chores and downtime, creators may need to explain the value of their shows more clearly. Instead of assuming that we have a podcast that quote we have a podcast unquote is enough. Growth depends on converting casual curiosity into routine listening, which means simpler reasons to press play. So I have a question.

43:30 Is the real problem podcast discovery, or are creators just bad at explaining why their show matters? Marc Ronick: Yeah, and I guess that last week, and yeah, just audience as far as how to play button is, et cetera, just and I think that this does all come back to what we said last I think is what the majority of us agreed on, is that sending them to our websites is probably the most effective way to get them comfortable and understand what our show is, where they can listen, et cetera. If we can make that easy for them, I think that makes the most sense.

44:13 Jonathan had something, I think, go ahead. Jonathan, Jonathan Howard: yeah, I would also just say, from my experience with my clients, about themselves. They're very uncomfortable doing it. And if they're being forced to talk about their podcast to get people interested, they're probably not going to do it. Mark, look at how much trouble you're having to get people to submit for being featured. It's because people don't like to talk about themselves and what they do Marc Ronick: that's fair. And I think if you're a podcaster, you got to get used to it. If you want, I Jonathan Howard: agree. Marc Ronick: If you want, I agree. I tell Jonathan Howard: people that all the time, Marc Ronick: but I think you're right, Jonathan, I can't deny that. I work with plenty of new tell either they'll say it out they're uncomfortable talking It's definitely a practice. Yes.

44:59 Sid, go ahead. Sid Meadows: This is a really interesting question, because I think that when you ask a podcaster, I think this is the core of the problem, right? When you ask a podcaster who their show is for, what their show is about, and how their show helps their ideal listener, they struggle to answer that question. It was some of the most foundational things that you really need to know. But I've talked to a ton of podcasters when they ask these stares or I don't really know, understand that, and you know the problems they have, and how your show solves those problems, then you should be able to clearly articulate what your show is, very easily, you should have that quote, unquote elevator pitch available, where it comes off very naturally. This is my show, and this is where you can listen Marc Ronick: to it.

45:49 Yeah, fair enough. Sid, I think that's a great point. And let me just make sure anyone else want to chime in? No, and by the way, we lost. Dr, yes, Ralph, go ahead. Yeah. Ralph Estep Jr: I was gonna say something John said in the chat. He said, It's the old the olds, the Luddites, most love podcasts, but they're too stubborn to listen. That's where I think video is going to win the day, because everybody understands how TV works. And you could say, go to this channel, and that's where I such a big thing, because I there's a lot of friction in friction to go get a podcast app podcast, whereas if I can send can send them to a channel, I easier. Marc Ronick: Yeah, I agree with you, Ralph, and I will say this, as a guy who has been in this podcast space for over 20 years, I can tell you that it's come a long way with older audiences.

46:43 Back when I was, let's say, my was like pulling teeth try trying to teach older people how And it's come a really long way. There are a lot more people now that get it older and younger. And by the way, side note younger. That just reminded me. college grads I heard talking while I was at my stepson's It just in casual conversation. Similarly, Ralph, like what you were just saying, where we used to say, oh, did you catch that show on TV?

47:24 It's now those conversations with the younger people are now about podcasts and which I just found fascinating and really exciting at the same time. Sid, go ahead, Sid Meadows: I don't totally agree with Ralph's position on video, right? Don't totally agree on it, Marc Ronick: yeah, Sid Meadows: but I understand it. But I think what's important to think about is you're you're doing with your content younger, and you're going to in time, likely Gen alpha into video first generation, so exploring what you can do with video, where you need to put it, What does it cost you to do X, Y and Z?

48:14 Because the younger generation is going to be video first and not audio first. Marc Ronick: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. Sid. And also, by the way, I wanted to throw out there that when I did hear some of these college grads talking about podcasts, yeah, I did ask a couple of them, do you watch or do you listen? But of the three, only one said that they prefer watching video. The other two were like, Oh no, I just like to listen when I'm working out or when I'm walking to class, etc, etc. So we'll see. We'll see where this goes I just think what's going to happen is video will become even more popular in podcasting. But I don't necessarily agree with Ralph yet that it's going to be the primary source at some We'll see. All right, let's see.

48:58 Do we have time? Yeah, let's do it. Ralph, you want to take the last story. Ralph Estep Jr: Absolutely, Not too few awards, too many Now, there was a four piece by Frank racioppi. I think I got his name right. And he argues, yeah, well, at least it sounded good. I look good doing it right. He argues that the podcast industry is now crowded with trophies and ceremonies, and there might not be any real way to stop it. On the surface, you could say that sounds like a good thing. More words means more recognition, more creators getting celebrated, more independent shows get a chance to be seen. But here's the business problem, when every corner of the industry has its own award, the value of winning starts to blur for creators, award can be marketing assets.

49:46 media kit, or in a sponsorship For award organizers, it can become a business model built around entry fees. We talked a lot about this on this show, sponsorships, events and industry visibility and for advertising network and listeners. Is it raises a harder question we really got to center mean something? That's where the podcast industry has to be careful. Awards can signal quality, but they aren't a substitute for audience trust, for strong production and for consistent publishing. Or here's what I talk about in the show all the time, real relationship with listeners. A trophy might help open a door, but it doesn't build the business by itself. So the takeaway is this, podcast awards. I think they're great.

50:29 I'd love to have a bunch of them myself, but they also shouldn't build their strategy around those ask better questions. Who judged this award? What was the criteria? Does it matter to your sponsors understand your value? Because in the crowded awards market, the smartest creators won't just chase recognition, they'll chase credibility. And I think that's really what we got to focus in on here Mark, I think there is a there's a business model here can make a ton of money by entry fees, but what's the value who's looking at it? Marc Ronick: Yeah, good point, but yeah. I mean, look, I think I've taken a break from applying to awards because a lot of these are expensive, and how far do creators. I think that they are something that we can use to hang our hat on, to to spice up our marketing campaigns and efforts, right?

51:30 It's something that we can we can say, Yes, we're award winning, but I don't think I feel comfortable applying to even say, let's say the top three major podcasting awards out there. I don't know that I feel comfortable doing that year after year, because I just don't think the investment is worth the return. I'm curious if anybody else thinks differently, but I don't see anybody responding anyone else. So, yeah, go ahead. Sid, Sid Meadows: I'm just curious. applied for an award. I think about it. When I get the emails about it, or I see it posted somewhere, I think about it, and then I'm like, which episode do I submit? And I got just like, I get stuck in my own way with it, right? But I wonder, listening to you talk about it, is an award just another vanity metric?

52:16 Does it really mean anything? Is it really going to grow your show? Is it really other than the recognition that you're an award winning podcaster, which is great, right, to be realized like that. Don't get me wrong, but I'm just wondering, is it just to the point of the article? There's so many awards now, is it? Is it just more noise and just a vanity metric that makes you I don't know, some question, Ralph Estep Jr: and I think that's the whole point. Sid, in our industry, if someone is a Hall of Fame podcaster, I think that brings credibility. I think everybody can say, oh, there's value there. But again, that's and that's what the article is saying. Sid is, think you got to pick and choose which ones you're actually going to look at and say, this has value. And I think that's the problem. Is we've got to go back to in the movie industry, if somebody wins an Academy Award, I mean, that is the award, right? But if we get to the point where, you know, the podcasting, morning show, annual awards, you know, is there credibility there?

53:07 Sure, because we know what we're doing, but at what point are there so many awards that people just say, okay, yeah, another award winning. Big deal, because you can go buy awards. Let me just let you down a little secret. There are websites out there right now that you can go spend some money, and they will give you an Award in the category that you choose. So what is the value of that award? Marc Ronick: Yeah, zero. And also Yeah, when you think about things like the Academy Awards, when there is value there, because they are paying for it, right, the either the team or the celebrities they're paying to play, right? And when they win that award, their popularity goes up, their paychecks go up right like when they get a new movie deal. Now, as an Academy Award winner, they can up that ante. So yeah, there are advantages there. I don't think as podcasters, we get even similar advantages to that type of thing, but there are some advantages to it. You can promote that you can it can maybe help you with your credibility, if that's one of the things that you're after.

54:11 We are back tomorrow, 8am Eastern. Ralph, do you want to tease tomorrow's show? We have somebody in the audience who will be a guest tomorrow? Oh Ralph Estep Jr: yeah, we're gonna have a great show tomorrow. We're going to have the great John Domingo on the show, and he's going to talk about how to get along with your co hosts, because John is the expert at this. He's been through a few of them he shared with me. So John's going to join us tomorrow on the show, and he's going to tell us all, because a lot of us have co hosts, Mark and I are sort of doing that. And so we're going to learn. We're going to lean in and learn what he has learned, the easy way, the hard way, what not to do and what works. So make sure you join us tomorrow at 8am for that show with John Domingo. Marc Ronick: Yeah, it'll be interesting. From my perspective, having multiple co hosts all the time, and I think that I do a pretty good job of getting along with most of my co hosts, I think all of my co hosts. But yes, looking forward to that. So I will.

55:00 Be happy to share more about that tomorrow when we talk with John. John, thank you for offering to do that or being a part of Looking forward to it 8am Eastern to find out where to watch, where to listen live or recorded. Just go to podcasting morning show.com/join. Us and until tomorrow, make it a great day. Everybody. Take care. Bye.