524. Overcoming Camera Fears as a Content Creator

0:05 Marc Ronick: Good morning, Today is Tuesday, May the 26th 2026 And today, if hitting record on video makes you over think everything before you even start, Katie Fox from Ecamm is here to help DIY podcasters build camera confidence without chasing perfection. So, if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, top right-hand side of the screen, and share it however Clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn, et cetera, please share this with a seconds, and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here. The podcasting morning show is powered by Ironick Media, helping podcasters launch, polish, and grow great shows, and by Content creators accountant helping creators build real business behind their content. Good morning again, podcasting morning show. Thank you so much for being here. I am your host, Mark Ronick, and currently on the virtual stage with me we have Ralph Estep, Dr. Fay, BC Babbles, and also Junaid Ahmed is here on stage with us as well. And good morning to those of

1:37 you joining us bright and early on Clubhouse. Thank you for being here. Yes, so today we are going to interview, discuss, have a conversation with Katie Fox from eCamm, and we will share more about Katie in just a minute. So, an unofficial hello to Katie. And before I dig into everything, I do want to remind you that we are still accepting spotlight submissions here at the podcasting morning show, so if you want to be in the spotlight here for free, no strings attached, you can submit people a real feel for it. And if we select it, we'll play it on a future episode, we'll share what stood out to us, and introduce your show to our community of podcasters and creators, so submit your clip now at Podcasting Morning show.com/spotlight And as for today, we're getting into something that I think a lot of podcasters are thinking a lot about right now, and for some people, maybe avoiding a little bit of it too, video, because for some creators adding video feels exciting, and then there are others that feel like it might be maybe exposing suddenly the questions start to pile up.

2:56 What camera do I need? What if I look awkward? What if I mess up, what if I'm just not somebody who's good on camera, and the truth is that a lot of very capable podcasters feel that way. That's why this conversation really matters. And I'm so glad that Katie's here today, and Ralph's going to tell us a little bit more about Katie. Go ahead, Ralph. Ralph Estep Jr: Well, good Yeah, our guest today is Katie Fox. She's the director of marketing at eCamm, and she's co-host of The Flow. Now, there is where she helps creators, live streamers, and podcasters build better video workflows and show up more And hey, we all need to do that, right? What makes this conversation especially valuable today is that Katie's advice isn't just professional, it's personal.

3:40 She's been through a journey. She's lived a transition from behind the scenes work to becoming an on camera creator, and she's had to work through that same fear, perfectionism, and self doubt that so many podcasters feel. So today we're going to talk about what really makes being on camera feel hard, how to get more comfortable without overcame, over complicating the process and what podcasters actually need to focus on if they want to start doing video with more confidence and less pressure. If you've been waiting to feel fully ready before hitting record, this episode is for you. So, please help us in welcoming Katie Fox. Good morning, Katie. Katie: Good morning. Good morning, I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Marc Ronick: Great to have you Yeah, and I think might as well just dive right in, Ralph.

4:24 And I think you might, I think you have the first question, but video podcast, because that one I learned about this past week, and I just instantly got infatuated with the show. So I want to hear more about that, but I'll let you take the first question, Ralph. Ralph Estep Jr: Yeah, good morning, Katie. Again, so for people meeting you for the first time, Katie, how do you describe what you do today? How do you describe what you Katie: do? Oh my gosh, all right, sure. Kick it off with the hardest question here at eight in the morning. Yeah, it's a difficult one. I mean, I'm a general marketing person, so I technically, my title is A really incredible team over at streaming and video production And on a day-to-day basis, I get the absolute pleasure of working with podcasters and creators, live streamers, and then people who are just brand new, trying to get into video and helping them to discover how they're going to show up on camera and how to do it really effectively, powerfully, and professionally, Marc Ronick: that works, and so then I'm gonna ask you a little bit about that podcast for a second, because, and actually, I think you have three different podcasts, okay? But the one I was most interested in, I know you have The Flow, and I think that's an eCamm show, Katie: that's an e-came show, correct?

5:37 Yeah, yep, Marc Ronick: okay, and then you also have the what was that one, the makers matter, right? Katie: So, and this is still this down and talk about this, somehow I ended up with not one, podcasts that I do live, so I of them, which, again, like, if you had asked me this even five years ago would have been like pass, but yeah, so I have the one of my colleagues, Doc Rock, and we share everything that you need to know about podcasting and how to add video into the world of podcasting. So if this conversation resonates, that's a great show to check out to kind of dive deeper into some of those topics. I host a 80s and 90s movie review podcast with my best friend on Thursday nights, called the VHS Club, where we literally just geek out over movies, and you have the pleasure or horror of overhearing what we chat about. And then on Fridays, my friend Jeff and I, we just have a.. it's called the Makers Table, and it's.. it is a very casual, hopefully inclusive, safe space for people to bring a project, have it on in the background.

6:46 I crochet, he carves wood, and we just chat about a variety of different topics. It's Friday afternoons, it's a really, it's a nice chance to kind of be like, okay, we got, we did it, we got through the week, we're just hanging out together. The goal of that show was really to create a space where we could talk about anything, and we could just explore, like, how the world, the digital world, lines up against analog, in how important it is to kind of get away from some of these digital spaces sometimes, and really just do things with people, do things with our hands, make things. It's been a really fun show that's brand new, just started a couple of weeks ago. Marc Ronick: Okay, cool. So the VH VHS club video podcast that I'm curious. Now I saw you've had a couple of shows. You did one was the what was the one that you just did? Katie: The Last Dragon, Marc Ronick: Last Dragon, that's Yes, and I know when I was growing up, I used to watch that, that movie, that was your jam constantly.

7:39 Yes, I used to love those movies, that kind of movie, and then I saw you did Spaceballs, not too long ago. Katie: Upcoming Space Balls Marc Ronick: is this Thursday. Okay, yes, that's right, upcoming. I'm looking forward to that one, and timely too, by the way, because yeah, there's some out soon. Yeah, cool. Okay, cool. I love that. Do you have a favorite episode of the VHS club that you've Katie: done? Oh gosh, I really don't. I really enjoy, which I didn't think I would like this part of it as much as I do, but when we started the show, it was really meant to be just time for Nat and I to hang out. We grew up across the street from each other, so it was like, okay, we'll just, no one will come, we'll just sit here and chat and hang out about movies, and what I really have enjoyed the most, and my favorite episodes are friends that I like, newer friends that I've made along the way, most of whom have come to me through my job or spending time with other creators or So, the Last Dragon was a great example of it.

8:37 Jonathan, I met through a conference, all for entrepreneurs and solopreneurs that I'd attended, and he was like, "Oh, I just would love to be on the show. I'd love to share all about The Last Dragon. It's my favorite movie. I just.. I love hearing what movies like excite people and trigger all that nostalgia and those memories, and I love that they just want to be on the show. I just think that's so fun and humbling and awesome, and I feel like it, it's always a great chance, and when they leave, you're like, oh, well, you need to come back, like, we could talk to all these other movies, so yeah, it's really fun to have guests on, really fun to hear everyone's favorite movie, or what excites them, it's never what you think, Marc Ronick: yeah, so I want to ask you, because a little while ago you said, tell me five years pass, right? So, is that something where being on camera just felt confidence something that you Katie: Oh gosh, not just weird, terrifying, absolutely terrifying. So, I came from a writing background, I always wanted to work in publishing.

9:38 My ideal job, if you would ask me, like, right out of school, I tea or coffee, with no people around me whatsoever, and quietly correct novels. Like, that was my goal. And I worked a little bit in publishing, but I somehow found my way into marketing, and that translated into copyright. Writing, and then social media, and flash forward a few years into my career, I had a job at a company called Paint Night. They're a company that does paint and sip parties at bars and restaurants across North America, actually, I think across the world at this point, and I was managing and helping marketing provide marketing support for, I think, it was somewhere in the range of had to create these training videos, and I would be completely fine in email, totally fine building resources, needed, even pretty good on calls, like totally fine to be on like a video call, but every time the videography team would come in, like, it would be like a team of people, right?

10:41 You had, like, the sound guy and the video camera guy. The second that the camera came up in front of me, like, I can't even properly, and some of you make, maybe can relate to this, I still have this here and there, but, like, my heart would race, my hands would be shaking, like everything that I had memorized or worked on was out of my head. It was the most, like, visceral. scary experience that I think I've honestly I've ever had, like I, and it, I could not get through it, and it, it ended up being this situation where I'm sure for them it was just insanely frustrating, like they would probably have to go back and edit a ton, they were super accommodating, they'd be like, we can come back, we can re-record it, it was a, but it was a hugely important part of my job, and so it was frustrating, and I just wanted to be better at it, and I've always been personal, so I couldn't understand what it was about the camera that really got me, but something definitely ironic and utterly ridiculous that in a few years past that point I ended up working for eCamm and loved what I did, but part again, part of the job was this idea of like that you just had to be on camera, you can't, I can't help other people understand this or get better at the software or be their best selves if I'm not willing to do it myself, so I had to push through, and it's not - wasn't easy, and it's taken time.

12:05 I mean, I've been at this now for almost seven years, but I'm so glad I did, and I'm glad that everyone has been so much nicer, more accommodating than I ever would have imagined. So, yeah, it's definitely been a well beyond, like, I don't like this or this feels like weird. It was like my something felt awful, like it was just a Marc Ronick: And I mean, jumping this is just another example to me of doing the things that make us feel really uncomfortable, and once we push ourselves to do to do that. There are a lot of benefits and rewards on the other side of that, often in many cases.

12:46 So, yeah, that's a cool, cool thing to hear. And Ralph, I'll let you take the next one. I know you had a question. Ralph Estep Jr: Yeah, Katie, and I do a live stream here every morning, and then I do my own live stream on Fridays, and you've mentioned this on one of your shows. It's different when it's just you on camera, too, isn't it? Because I notice when I'm with this group, I don't feel any of those jitters, I don't feel any of those things. But when I turn that camera on myself on the live stream, it is My face gets red, my hands get So I totally agree with what you're saying. Why do you think so many smart, capable podcasters freeze up when the camera turns on? What do you think that's all about? Katie: I think it's different for different people. I've been giving this a lot of thought, actually, over the last few years, because it comes up a lot. I still don't like you when I'm by myself. It is a different, is a different feeling. There is a safety in kind of being in a group of people. I think for me it comes down to this feeling of there is a version of myself that I want to share with people in this space, and I don't want to come across as looking dumb, I don't want to come across as looking ill prepared, I don't want to waste anyone's time, like, if I'm showing up here on camera, there is a value I'm hoping to provide for people, and so I think that, honestly, is what gets in my head, is this idea of what if people on the other side

14:17 you know, she's not saying the right thing, like I'm past, I'm leaving, you know. This is not valuable. So, I think a little bit of it is tied in that. I think a lot of people, and I've gotten past this point, but I think a lot of people also just like looking at yourself, seeing yourself on camera is Like, we all don't love something about how we look or how we sound, you know. We're sort of always kind of like, oh, is that what I sound like? I don't love it. So, I think, you know, a little bit of it is probably tied in that, but if you really spend time and think about it, the back of your head that is feel uncomfortable. So, for me, I am in charge.

14:59 Charge of the marketing team for this company, and I like when I show up, people have expectations, and I don't want to. I want to deliver on those. I don't want to disappoint people, and I don't want people to think less of me. still to some extent in the back have to deal with when I show up on camera. Marc Ronick: So, and you you feel like you've seen, I working with a lot of video What are some other common fears that you hear from people trying to show up on video? Katie: Yeah, the biggest ones for people who are brand new are how they look and sound, so you know something about them that they're, they just, it's an uncomfortable feeling, they don't want to look and sound a particular way. A second part of it is that there's like a particular image in their head of how they want to look to show up on camera, so you know they've seen someone else, so like they've looked, for example, your background mark, and they're like, oh, like, you know, like, if I can get like a blue lights behind me, and if I had this like incredible camera, Then I would be okay. So, you know, most people in Myspace kind of fall into that bucket to some extent, whether they realize it or not. They're like, you know, I would start with video, but I don't have the best camera yet. I can't afford it, or, you know, and my lighting isn't great, my space isn't great.

16:22 I'm only in a bedroom, I don't have it's a defense mechanism, and kind of they're waiting for the right moment, but I think underlying that is, is again like some kind of fear that's holding them back. Either they know that they want to do it, but aren't quite sure what they want to say, they're worried that, you know, someone will think less of them, they're worried about the trolls that might come out in the comments and say mean things, you know, the word everyone will show their word, no one will show all the different, which we still have, none of those fears go away, you just learn how to navigate them, or they become less important than what you're trying to create. Marc Ronick: Yeah, and I think the background stuff, and I know people and tell them you don't background in the world, and I all the time, and I do think sometimes those little things your confidence, if you know background behind you, it's one less thing in your head to think about and talk yourself out of, right.

17:27 Yeah, yeah, okay, Katie: yeah. And I think the back, the thing I will say about backgrounds, yeah, actually two things. One is that how fantastic a day and age that we are in that I feel like people are craving humanity and real people, so I think in particular that's freeing for many people who are brand new to this, or who are feeling like squishy about it, because the more you kind of put yourself into your of allow some of your character and the things that you really enjoy and the pieces of yourself the more you're actually going to be able to connect with people, which is going to give you a ton more confidence. So, it's, it is actually kind of a nice time for it, and background, I think, plays a lot into that.

18:10 So, I would encourage people, like, I know it's so easy these days to, like, hit that, like, blur my background button, or to green screen it, so no one can see what's behind you, but actually, like, people want to see what's behind you. There's an interest in what's in your space, you know. It's an inside peek into your world. So do your best to make it fun and make it feel comfortable and make it feel like you. That actually matters way more than the camera and the lights and all of it is the points of connection, the points of humanity that people really need right now more than ever, really. Marc Ronick: Yeah, I know that the most, as far as creators that special, but Pat Flynn does He does, and I always lean in and look to see, like, okay, what does he got there? Oh, that's cool.

18:58 There's a Mandalorian helmet, and you know, like, I get excited about those different things, and he knows how to play to his audience, and I think you know those are both him showing some of his personality and also playing, I think, to his audience as well at the same time. D.R. Fay: I wanted to mention, for our listeners, you know, Katie's talking about backgrounds and stuff, and we're watching Katie in front of all of her yarn creations that she has, so there's like hundreds of them, all these different little creatures and stuff. So she, she walks the walk, so Marc Ronick: that's right. And, dear, did you have a question, or is that just D.R. Fay: I had a question. So, do you have like a special formula, a trick, a hack that don't want to show up on camera.

19:51 Excuse me, what do you do to help them get past that hump? Katie: Yeah, I wish I could say that there's like a magic bullet or something that makes it signal. Significantly easier, usually I, if I can, like, if we have time and space to be able to do it, I do chat with them a little bit to understand, like, what their goals are, and usually, if we can have that conversation, it's easier to help someone understand that, how important it is to push through that, if their goals are that they're trying to build a business, you know, using podcasting or video, or trying to connect with an audience, or trying to help people, it's a shift of it's not actually about you, so it feels like it's about about the people who are listening and watching on the other side, and you are taking away that connection point by not being on camera, in some ways, like people want to be able to see you, they want, you know, those body cues, they want welcomed, kind of into your space.

20:48 People, it's why we always like look up, you know, radio hosts, we're like, what do they look like, right? We want to know that. So, if I can talk with them, usually I can help in that way. If I can't talk with them, what I usually say, like in situations like this, is one of the most important things that you can do, if you're at a point where you want to try to push yourself, is phone a friend, your sister, your best friend, friend, find a friend, put the as they're able to, either in live stream in the back space, now, so like you could put them in the back space, they don't even have to be on camera, but you can see them spending time someone else, like that made a that I wasn't by myself and person there that like if I type a comment and be like awesome, or like, give me a That even today is still a huge part of why I'm able to show up, is just having someone there to be like, oh no, it sounds great, you know, you're in your head, you're worrying about things that are silly. So, if you can start doing that, whatever format it is, I would say just start pushing yourself. It could be a recorded video.

22:04 Honestly, live streaming feels like it is the scariest. It is actually the easiest, and it is the fastest way to get comfortable. So, if you can push yourself right to that, I would go right there. But yeah, phone friend, find a friend. D.R. Fay: It sounds just like it's out of Ralph's book, because he has said several times that he has one of his vas sitting on the other side of the camera and he's talking to her while he is live streaming, so it gives him someone to least bounce off of some eye contact with someone, Marc Ronick: yeah, yeah, and Ralph, I, what was the goal you have for, yeah, Ralph Estep Jr: and that's one of the cool things about eCamm, Katie. I actually use eCamm, the VA, her name is Abby, and she or also when we do the live And my goal is to make her laugh, cry, or sow some emotion, because I was struggling.

22:56 I've got this 24 inch prompter people prompter in front of me, and you talked about technology. I've got a ton of technology here in my studio, but it still wasn't working. I wasn't connecting, and one of my mentors said, 'Hey, why don't you get somebody to join you in the studio? And I said to my secretary, 'You want to come sit in the studio? She goes, 'You're boring, I'm not doing that. So then I got my VA to do it, and it's been a great relationship. do so many shows, it's day, and I see Abby pop in, and it's like I'm going to be okay today, and the days that I can that's like my thumbs up days, today, because I can just everybody said, "Well, just one person, you know, I even none of that worked for me, but when I could have somebody like you're nodding your head, Katie, that, nodding your head, it made content, and it just made it so much fun.

23:48 I also want to trumpet something you said, live streaming has been the greatest asset that I've done, because, and I love it when nobody shows up, because then I don't have to worry at all, because it's like I look down at my Stream Deck and there's a big one or a two, and I'm like, okay, two people here, I guess. Mom showed up. Now, my mom's passed away, but like, I don't worry anymore, but set, Katie. So, so, thank you for sharing. I think that is a real winning idea. Katie: Yeah, it helps. It helps in a few different ways that maybe people don't even fully appreciate. So, it certainly helps you kind of put in the reps and practice, you know, just being on camera, it's higher stakes because someone slash anyone could show up, whether they show up live or they show up in the replay, and it also helps you understand and learn how to use all of your gear and learn what to do, not if but when something goes wrong, so if the, you know, internet goes down, or a light goes out, or all of those different things. I learned how to navigate those situations, troubleshoot them, create appropriate backups by failing publicly in front of people, and it stinks for the first few times that it happens to you.

24:57 It even doesn't feel great now when it happens. It, I now am able to laugh it off, remain calm, and understand what happened, and be able to solve it in the moment. I wouldn't have learned that, or didn't put myself into the Like, if I had spent time just recording, I would have been like, "Well, I'm going to toss that recording out, and I'll do it again, and it would have been.. I would have gotten there to the end result that I needed, but I wouldn't have learned the skill, and I wouldn't have learned how to navigate all of it, not just the tech, but you know how it affects me personally, how to remain calm, how to work my way through it, and it's always something, it's always a cable, it's always some weird thing that happens, no matter how expensive your gear equipment is. In fact, probably more often complicated your gear Marc Ronick: is.

25:39 Katie: Unfortunately, Marc Ronick: Katie, let's see, we've got a couple people I know, BC Babbles, and also, by the way, Matt Bliss has joined us here on the virtual stage. I'm going to go to you in a second, BC, but one of our community members is up on the stage as well. I want to go there first. Gabe, good morning to you, sir. Did you have a question for Katie? Gabe: Yeah, might be a little I'm driving. Katie, have you seen much difference when it comes to podcasting when you, after you guys introduce, like, the vertical and the portrait live streaming? Because I know a lot of live, excuse me, a lot of podcasters create video podcasts and they use the portrait landscape for their clips and stuff. So have you seen it, either an increase, or how you know it shifted. How maybe podcasters decide whether or not to use a software like eCamm.

26:27 Katie: Oh my gosh, that's a So, for those who don't know, and hi Gabe, by the way, it's so good to hear from you. It's if, for those who don't know, so eCamm has, and I think most of most tools these days have this feature, but you can basically create a wide or horizontal video feed, and a vertical version of that feed simultaneously, and with eCamm, you can fully design it, so your horizontal feed, but you can stream them simultaneously, and you can record them simultaneously, so you sort of end your recording process with every conceivable type of file that you need in order to put it into all the different places or your question, Gabe, yes, I do think it's going to continue to be a really hugely fundamental part of content creation, podcasting, live streaming, because it does a couple different things, one, if you are leveraging streaming in vertical, I think from a discoverability standpoint it's getting your content out in front of a much, much wider audience. And the second thing, which I think is equally important, is that because you're able to actually design in vertical the exact way that you want that video to look, it's saving a ton of time in clipping and post production work, which for me was life changing, because I'm a terrible editor, so I don't have that time to spend.

27:48 It's never gonna look great, because I'm just not good at it, and I don't have the budget for my personal shows to send that out to an editor right So, for me, I used to take my wide horizontal full video for the VHS club, for example, I would drop it into Opus, and then it would give me a whole bunch of different clips, which are great. They were all the right clips, they were helping to kind of grow my audience, build my build my community, but they never quite looked right, like they would always, Opus would always like pull in the, the movie box that we had shown as like a person, so it'd be like me talking, but it would just be like the VHS box on screen, and that wasn't obviously ideal, so I would spend a bunch of time kind of tinkering away to get them to look the way I wanted them to look, whereas now, because I'm recording in vertical, I can just drop that in, and then it uses AI to clip the exact right special moments, so now they look exactly the way that I want episode, it's just done, and point where I might not even Sorry, Opus friends, because I on my computer every time I know recording, and then I'll have say, like, okay, I'm gonna clip that, I'm gonna clip that, and I can clip even in, I mean, simple of software, is like I without having any skill set, so it's helping to broaden our reach, but it's also helping to simplify our process while still delivering the best possible content. So now my whole goal is just to focus entirely on delivering the best possible episode,

29:20 because I know that when I do that, AI can help me with getting it out in front of the right people. So, I, for me, it's just like create the best possible episode, focus on the content, the time I'm actually spending recording, and the rest of it is wizardry and magic from robots. It goes a long way. So, yeah, it's a great feature, and I use it all. I didn't think I would use it as much as I do. I use it all the time for every single thing. I'm always recording or streaming, or both, in vertical as well. Marc Ronick: My one question about that is, so if it's doing it simultaneously, does that mean if I'm using the eCamm software I'm actually looking at And vertical, and am I switching them separately, Katie: so you are, you have a horizontal and the vertical side building, so eCamm works, it has build out a profile, which is then within the profile you have when you're actually live you can build all of those out switching, it's switching both again, the vertical may look VHS club, for example, I have branded side by side shot, and one or two, or even more guests on, whereas in the vertical these days I actually have been making that more camera focused, because the graphics I don't think matter as much, and I don't have as much, you know, real estate in that

30:52 space, so you know that might be I use Zoom active camera, so then it actually just switches the cameras automatically for me, and I don't have to even think about it, so yes to being able to see everything at once, but no, it's all set up so that you're switching once you're recording once, and everything is just doing what it's supposed to do, so you don't need to be worried about, like, oh shoot, I've got to move over into the next scene for vertical, it's all automated and makes it really easy for you to do that, Marc Ronick: cool, and for what YouTube chat, says one of my a producer option where I can Is that something that you guys are thinking about? Katie: It's been on the list for It's slightly more complicated than it would be for a web tool like what we are having here, because a web tool, anyone is able to like look up the website and have a separate login. Ecamm is a desktop application that you're installing on your computer, so the ability to sort of allow someone else access to software that's on your computer is just a little bit more complicated.

31:55 It is possible in that we do Zoom, and then we also, and I this earlier, but we also have which allows people to connect so it's possible, but we want to obviously make sure that we're and security, and and making it as good as an experience as possible, but it is, I guess I limitation of a desktop software everything, and it's sitting on your computer. It just makes it harder for us to be able to help grant access. Marc Ronick: Makes sense. Real quick, let me pause here, and remind indie and DIY podcasters that Empowered Podcasting Three is coming, and it's where you come to connect, create, and grow with people who truly get what you're building, so join us August 20-first through the Carolina, for three days of conversations to move your Get your tickets now to be and be a part of Empowered Podcasting Three. Just go to Empowered podcasting.com and, bc you've been waiting very patiently, I know you have a question, go for it, my friend.

33:04 BC Babbles: Yeah, good morning to think if I've had to question because we've kind of think we've quite hit it quite So my question is, when it comes to working with new video creators who have scripted content, I know I've got segments of my own content that are very scripted, lots of information, and they're concerned about whether or not they're going to make enough eye contact with the camera, but they don't want to make it obvious that they're visually jumping back and forth from the camera lens to the script, because they want to make sure that they're, you know, they're hitting their mark, they're getting the information out, they want to sound clear and at least have a flow, but they don't want the audience, at least on the video end, to notice that, oh, they're reading something that's gonna, and that So, what are your thoughts when you have a new video creator who has that Katie: I have a couple different I think first off, it's not as important as it seems to glance down at your script. In fact, so, and this depends on whether or not, obviously, you're recording something and making like a quote unquote kind of more polished video, or you're live streaming. I would say, if you're live streaming, it's not important really at all.

34:18 Like, you want to be able to make eye contact as much as you can, but I think it's absolutely fine to glance down. I'm looking at you, I'm back up at my camera, and that's just a matter of practice to get good at that. There are some tools that you can use to make a lot of that easier. So, obviously, you can have a teleprompter, you can leverage a lot of our customers will leverage a Stream Deck, so that they actually don't need to look can press that trigger content, pause, unpause, mute, that makes it a little bit time. So, I would say it, while it's important, it's not as important as it seems. So, I would focus more on delivering the best possible content and being real and caring about your audience than you do about being perfect and about getting.

34:59 The script out exactly the way that you want it to, but if you really like, if it really, exactly as it is scripted, then I would say having a teleprompter goes a really long way, and at least within eCamm, and I'm sure other softwares as well, you have the ability to just record and you can pause what I've found for myself, and I will be the first to say, I am way less confident and videos. I still like doubt myself, and there's something about because when you're live, you just have to push through. If I say the wrong thing here, that's kind of too bad. We're just gonna hit you, Marc Ronick: can't overthink Katie: it. Yeah, I can't overthink it. Yeah, I have to keep moving, whereas when I record, I have the ability to hit that pause button. I do a lot of this where I just lean into my microphone. I'm like, I can't believe I said that. That was my script, said so.

35:49 But I will say that I have started using visual cues, or even written cues. So now these days I will actually produce a recorded video as if I was creating a presentation, but try to make it a little bit more visually interesting, and those cues help me stay on track with my script without actually having to have the script in front of me, so you know, maybe I'm doing a presentation on camera confidence, and I want to maybe I will put, like, a little Night logo up on screen, and that will be, like, okay, right? That was where I was going to share that. order, I can also label them in eCamm, so I can lay it out as if I was laying out a PowerPoint or Keynote presentation, and that helps me remember it quick and easy, a lot easier than bulleted lists, a lot easier than a script, and help me to flow through the content, so that that is what I do.

36:41 It's not for everyone. I've just been pushing myself to be I listen. I started as a writer, as I said, so I want to write everything out. I'm way better at writing it cuff, but I think it actually through the content and spend put the script aside, put the doing my best to deliver it, and enough, and I'd rather get the content out there and help people than kind of sit and spend all of that time trying to get it perfect. So it's a great question, though, something people, yeah, a lot. BC Babbles: I love that. Marc Ronick: It also goes back to, yeah, just being, yeah, being confident and being relatable, right? Like, you know, instead of being so tied to that script and just working through it, like you said on the fly, I think really helps you connect with an audience, for sure. Dar, you had something, and then we're going to go to Ralph. D.R.

37:34 Fay: Yeah, I want to roll it back just a little bit and ask some fundamental questions who are brand new to podcasting, we get listeners that are maybe even thinking about podcasting, haven't even approached it yet. So, when we talk about live streaming, eCamm gets mentioned, mentioned with a squad cast, is squad cast, what's the one that Descript has? Katie: Yeah, I think it's squad D.R. Fay: cast. Yeah, okay, so it gets mentioned with all of those. Are they oranges to oranges, or is do they have differences, or what? Katie: That's a great question.

38:18 that, because they are actually quite different. They can accomplish the same thing, which is why they come up in conversation. Ecamm is probably closest to an OBS, which is, which is a free open source application. It is software that you are installing on your computer, and it is traditional video production software that is structured for a live streaming first workflow, so you can use it to go live, multi-stream, do kind of everything within the live streaming space, but you can also use it to record videos and to run like pretty large TV quality broadcasts, but it is not initially created. I guess.

39:00 What I would say is like a web-based solution, like a Riverside, like a Stream Yard, a Restream Squad Cast. Some of these other ones that, that you mentioned, they are really meant for like brand new beginners to be able to get up and running with their tools. They allow for really easy collaboration, and it's, you know, anyone can kind of pick them up and use them. They have a lot of templates built into them. Ecamm has a higher learning curve, but grows up with you a lot more, so you can do a lot more with it than a lot of those softwares, and the production quality is much higher because it's not web-based, so it's not relying on the internet in order to create video. So, I think that's probably the best way to explain it, so it's not like if you are brand new, you might open up eCamm and be like, whoa, it might feel like a lot, and take a little bit of time to kind of work your way through it, or remember what it is you signed up for to accomplish within it, whereas I think if you open up a Riverside, it's a lot more like, podcast, because you can. Does all the different things, you sort of have to know what you want to do with it, and turn off everything else until you're ready for it, D.R.

40:06 Fay: right? Just one more question for the newer podcasts, podcasters out there, eCamm is native to Mac, Apple Mac, right, and there's no plans of drifting into PC at all, right? Katie: We, how many times do you when I first started, I was like, well, this doesn't make any sense, like you know, maybe maybe I can talk them into doing something different. This is kind of a logical come on, guys, like you know, there's whole PC market out there who want to be able to The reality is I spent more time with the team is that this app was intentionally designed to leverage everything about the Mac, so unfortunately it's not as easy as just pushing a button and switching something over, or hiring a PC developer to be able to make it work. It works so powerfully and so beautifully because literally every aspect of it is designed to work off of these Mac computers, that's why it doesn't, at the moment, work on an iPad or is not a mobile device. It's meant to be like powerful video production software that is using all of the power of your Mac computer.

41:14 easy as just kind of switching And that's again like why it is very different than a web-based tool, which can work, you know, agnostic of any different platform. The one thing I will say is that you, well, two things. One, it's actually really affordable to get a Mac these days, so I would say switching over and having a dedicated machine for video production is a good best practice. Anyway, so if you're serious about this, having, like, having a machine that is dedicated to this, at least to important, and also, there, you know, there are lots of other great tools out there. So, if you're just getting started, and you're like, "Wait a sec, Katie, I can't buy a brand new Mac and a camera and all this different stuff, you don't have to. You can start really simply.

41:54 You can start with these softwares are great. We're in Riverside right now. It's an awesome piece of software. So, it, it depends on what your goals are. Ecamm is there for fairly high level video production, so you know you can use it for these easy productions, but it is going to offer you much more in the long term, so you just might not be ready for it at this point, which is completely fine. Marc Ronick: Cool. All right, I think Ralph, you had something. Ralph Estep Jr: Yeah, and I jumped into eCamm at the front end, Katie, because I just figured I'm going to cross this bridge, because that's where I want to end up. So, I just.. I was all in. My friend and Jeff C, who's going to be on the show here in a couple weeks, he really helped me a lot with that too. But I want to go into the next.. I want to pivot a little bit here on the show. I talk about all the time that I think the future is video, and so for the audio podcast that's adding video right now, what do you see that needs to change first before they hit record?

42:42 What should they start to do as they think about transitioning to video? Katie: Transitioning is can be really, really difficult, particularly if you've been doing an audio-only podcast for a really long time. I think this is what's like difficult for people to get their head around, and I feel like a lot of folks are in a space where they're like they feel this intense pressure to make their audio podcast have video, so they're like, okay, well, anything that I can do to, like, you know, go back in my old catalog and like turn these audio episodes into video, or like, how do I do it going forward? I actually don't think that that's the best approach, like, if you've spent all of this time building an audio-only show, you have a listenership audience.

43:26 I actually think starting to approach it a little bit differently is a better option. I would say add in video elements, experiences, moments that can delight your existing listenership, but start getting your content out in front of a new audience, so this could be like, hey, we're doing, you know, for Nat, and I, if we had had an audio-only podcast for the VHS club, what I would do to get into video would be like, hey, we're gonna do, you know, a movie night, like, come on in, or, you know, we're gonna, you know, set it all up, we're gonna create it, so it feels like a special experience, and not just one of your regular episodes. To start playing around with how you want to show up on camera, what that looks like, what that experience is like. I would do that first, instead of kind of thinking about how to replicate your entire catalog, because that is I don't think you need to, I you want to show up on video, you know, maybe you do it might be different, some of only, but they do a monthly do, you know, a special and A with the host, and you spend time with them, and that's They're still in those spaces, they're still growing in different ways, and I think that's okay.

44:48 It's figuring out where you want to be. If you're brand new, I would say, and you don't have to kind of worry about a back catalog, I would definitely start with video for a few different reasons, but I. Asking a lot of someone, particularly folks who have, you audience as well. They're used to spending time with you in an audio way, and they may not want to switch over. There are lots of shows I just listened to, and I love listening to that, and maybe I catch, you know, an episode here or there on my TV in the evening, and I'm watching them, but I'm like, I've connected with them in an audio space, and I think that's fine. Marc Ronick: Cool. Well, I'm curious, then if someone's trying to prioritize their video setup well, what matters most early on? Do you think it's..

45:38 I'll give you examples, like the lighting, the frame, the framing, is it the microphone, the sound quality, camera quality, or is it confidence? Like, where, what do you think the things to prioritize first? Katie: Oh, okay. Well, if you're gonna throw non, non-tech stuff in there, then yes, I would say community that you're building, understanding what the goals of your show are those things are a lot of people that I speak they are all in on it, like they're happy to spend the money, they've signed up for eCamm, and I'll get on a call and I'll be like, okay, what's your show about, and they're like, they have no idea, they just, they just really want a podcast, they want to be in this space, so yeah, understanding what all of those those pieces are first, and then when it comes to gear, if you are already an audio-only podcaster, you have a huge leg up, because the most important part always remains your audio. People will watch terrible video see you, and you are on mute, or your audio sounds terrible.

46:42 It's a horrible experience. So, Marc Ronick: I'm just glad you're saying that, because I know we say it a lot here, and I audio first podcast, but no, here's a video person saying audio is the first priority, Unknown: audio first, and it is also the most complicated to learn. So, you know, find a time with, and make sure that it Don't just take, you know, the piece of advice that that someone publicly told you on YouTube or where else. Like, really think through, you know, what your budget is, what you're trying to accomplish, whether or not you know you want a microphone to grow with you, or you just need something right now that's a little bit better than your built-in. But don't use your built-in, don't use your AirPods, don't use your headphone microphone.

47:24 Get a real microphone that connects to your computer, that's first. And then from there, honestly, like I mean software to be able to create podcasts that would come in probably the same line as microphone, maybe at one step afterwards. Good lighting probably would be there. I would put camera almost at the very end, because realistically, the what you have on your phone does a really phenomenal job. What's built into your computer, if you have a newer computer, is actually pretty darn good. And then there's like a bajillion webcams out there that are not expensive that make a huge difference, like understanding your background, understanding basic photography framing goes a long way, and lighting goes a long way. This camera that I'm using right now was $129 I downgraded. I have access to every conceivable camera in this video.

48:14 I can bring them all home. They were complicated. I never, like, I had to mess with all the settings. There was all this extra stuff I had to learn. This one is like this big, and it plugs in USB into my computer. It always works, looks great. I feel good about it. So, and I feel good because I know if there was a failure point, there's only two things that could be wrong: either like the camera is broken or the cable is bad, like it's there's not a lot of stuff I can mess with. So, yeah, I think that would be the order to think Marc Ronick: about. D.R. Fay: Katie, are you using a ring light right now? Katie: I'm not. I have, D.R. Fay: okay, Katie: I upgraded my lighting, and I'm constantly messing around with it. I like lighting because I can, like, see it. I'm always like, oh, it's light, here, and I'm shifting stuff I have, I think it's a newer light that's up here with a traditional soft box on it, that's my main light.

49:02 I have a Elgato key light, like one of the older key lights, like on my desk, kind of, you know, Marc Ronick: these are Katie: like side shots. You too, awesome. It's great because it's super easy, super affordable. And then I have, I think I have an extra one here to show you. One sec, I bought these two little guys, they are nan lights, and they're called a Pavo tube, I really like them for a couple of reasons. You can get them in any size. These are little, and they weren't all that expensive. They're either battery powered or you can keep them plugged in. So I have one right now, just with like normal white light as like an extra light on me, because it was a bit dark in here. But I love them because you can actually change their color. So if I wanted to do what Mark is doing, I could actually like put purple, blue, I don't know, whatever color lights behind me, and they have a magnet on the back, so they like stick to anything you can attach them to. You can attach them to any kind of stand, so they're great. I, and they're little enough that I can toss them in a bag and bring them with me, like I could pack up my whole setup and look great anywhere.

49:58 I have a laptop, everything, even. This microphone, I can toss in a bag and be able to make Marc Ronick: that's a sure MV Yeah, and what about the camera, since we're talking about your equipment? Do you know it? Katie: I, I love it. So I'm right now I'm Team Obs Bot, which is hilarious. I never.. so it literally is an is OBS bot, it's built for our competing software, but I love it. I think it's great. So it's this one's called the Meet two, it's a 4k webcam, as I said, it's $129 It's literally this big, but I have a whole bunch of them. I have, they make also a line of PTZ cameras that they pan, tilt, and zoom, so they have like a little trying to see if I have extra one here nearby to show you, but it's like right out of reach.

50:38 But yeah, they're they're great, because you can technically speaking, I could put it, you know, on the other side of the room, and then I can actually control it digitally, so I could, you know, pan around my room and show you what's in the space, if I had been wise enough to set it up before jumping on, but I just, I really like them, because again, they're like super affordable for anyone to use, they just work, they're small, they plug in by usb to your computer, so it's nice to these days. My one of my colleagues, Doc Rock, says all the time, like this stuff used to be millions of dollars. and the fact that I can like professional, and you know, have still wild to me. I think I, it's maybe $500 worth of stuff in this space, like it's pretty crazy that we're able to do that. Marc Ronick: I've been podcasting for over 20 years, and even 10 years ago this would we're able to do now with our studios, equipment, software, it just wasn't available 10 years ago, that kind of variety for competitive pricing, it just wasn't out there, and so, yeah, even 10 years ago was like you either had a TV studio or you didn't, you know, you just had to make do with kind of what whatever was out there at the time.

51:53 All right, cool. So we have BC that has a question, I think Ralph has another question, and we've got only a few minutes left, so let's see how we do this. Go ahead, BC. BC Babbles: Yeah, small quick question. Word, how much extra was the customization on your Shure microphone? Because I did not recall seeing that color combination on the store. Katie: I can't remember what the can't. You'll have to look it up, but the company is called send your microphone to them, I, so, yeah, it was, and it took a really long time to pick, because you can customize like almost every aspect of it, and there's so many colors to choose from.

52:34 This one was like this iridescent, like purpley pink, but yeah, I had like in the cart five different times, I was like, maybe blue, so yeah, it's a dangerous, you will waste a lot of time there, but it was a lot of fun, and then this is just a thing, they're called wind screens, I always get the name wrong, but Doc, who is my colleague, makes these, and they're at a website called Doc Pops, do C P O P P s.com he's got a ton of different colors and options, and I think I have a hot pink one too, but it always kind of looks a little bit red on camera, probably pointing on my behalf. Marc Ronick: Yeah, I'm a fan of using the different colored foam wind screens. Yeah, I like that.

53:15 Katie: it. Yeah. Marc Ronick: All right, Ralph, Ralph Estep Jr: I do. Thank you, Katie. And I want to ask you, what are the most common setup mistakes you see from podcasters starting video? So, those who are just getting ready to get started, what do you see is the most common setup mistakes, and how do you overcome those? Katie: I mean, probably feeling like they need to have this very complete full studio to start, so it's I think they get into, I've been calling it checklist mode. It's, you know, well, they don't have the best camera, it's not set up correctly, or they have all these things that they If they get through it, then they can start. So, putting it off and waiting until you have everything, I think, is a huge issue that they make.

53:56 Not doing a tech check, which I, guilty of you, like, jump on, everything looks fine, and just, record, like, the amount of all the way through a video and they realize that they were on mute the whole time, or you fails because they didn't double all of those different kinds of things. So, having time for a tech check, I think, is really important. I mean, those are probably the biggest ones. The other stuff you're just not going to predict. I feel like a lot of times we also think it's a little bit easier than it is, and so we don't spend as much time understanding some of the technology. So, like, if you're going to, for example, if you're going to use your mirrorless camera as a webcam, which you absolutely can, you can plug it right into your computer. It shows up, looks beautiful.

54:45 You better understand what all those different settings are, and whether or not it's gonna have the potential to overheat. Have you checked the batteries? Like, I intentionally made this space as simple as possible, so that I was able to kind of eliminate a whole bunch of those failure. are brand new, if they have the most, they might do the most, but they don't take the time to read the manual or fully understand what might happen complicated pieces of tech, again, this used to be a career of multiple people, there was a camera operator, there was an you are that person for your own understand how to do these to do that, then you need to yourself and make sure that bare minimum of boxes. Marc Ronick: Yeah.

55:36 Okay. Cool. Well, Katie, thank you for all of this today. I think what you've helped make clear is that getting comfortable on camera is all about recognizing that it's not about being perfect, and up, practicing, learning, and through the repetition. Katie: Yep, Marc Ronick: yeah. And for everybody listening, if video has felt intimidating, hopefully today reminded you that you don't have to master everything at once. You just need a starting point, and maybe a little courage, and some willingness to improve. And what I love about Katie, and what she's shared today, is here's somebody who works for a company that's all about video, but she's not telling us we have to have the best equipment, the most expensive equipment, the best software out there. Right, it's really all about what feels right to us, what works well for us in our setup. So I really appreciate everything you've shared today, Katie.

56:33 And if you don't mind, let people know where they can connect with you and learn more. Katie: Absolutely, if you want to learn more about eCamm, you can just search EC amm.com as our website. We have an incredible community. You don't have to be using the software to be part of our community. It's a public Facebook group. Anyone is welcome to come in and ask questions and practice and sort of see what other people are up to. So, come lurk in our community, or are welcome to get to know us a little bit better there. And I do. I'm involved in a lot of workshops and trainings and things in that space. You can certainly find me there if you want to geek out over movies. You can find me on the VHS Club podcast, that's the VHS clubpod.com We record live on Thursday nights at 9pm Eastern over on YouTube, but obviously you can listen or watch wherever Eastern over on YouTube, the Makers Table Live is the is what you can search over on YouTube, and then the flow in a few hours here. So we go live Tuesdays at noon Eastern over on YouTube on eCamm's YouTube channel, and we talk about all things video I think you can find, you'll find me personally if you find me under any of those spaces. I'm not sure, Marc Ronick: I'm sure, and we, we have links all in the show notes as well.

57:45 Yes, Alex, go ahead. Alex Ballish: I was lucky enough problem, I couldn't get in here earlier, but I just wanted to say it's, it is so much fun. She does a great job, it's the best of eCamm. I still haven't figured it out, and I'm a pro that and the script are like the bane of my existence, but I want to know more about it. And she is so helpful. After Podfest, she was nice enough to do a tutorial, I didn't even buy it yet, and she was nice enough to try to walk me through it, so I just can't say enough good things about her and the eCamm community, despite Billy being a focal point of Marc Ronick: it.

58:27 Alex Ballish: Despite that, you know, no, actually, one last thing, I know we're over time. and if you can work with her, money well spent. Marc Ronick: Thank you, Alex. Good endorsement from Alex. And yeah, so Katie, thank you. And hopefully we can have you back sometime and talk more with you about podcasting and video and all the things. And a reminder to the rest of the group, by the way, we are back tomorrow, 8am Eastern, covering all the headlines around the world of podcasting and sharing our two cents about those headlines. So come join us for that. If you want to find the different ways you can join us, just go to Podcasting Morning show.com/join us. Thank you again to Katie Fox. Thank you to Ralph for setting this one up for us. And we'll see you tomorrow.

59:14 So, until then, make it a great day, everybody. Take care.