546. How to Build Better Podcast Sponsorship Packages

0:05 Marc Ronick: Good morning, Today is Thursday, july 2, 2026 And today, sponsorships, audience trust, and untapped podcast assets. Why monetization is bigger than ad reads, and how small creators can package what they already own into valuable partnerships. Clubhouse, hit the share button, screen, and share it however And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, etc. please share this episode with a fellow podcaster. And now, give us about 30 seconds, and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here.

0:51 The podcasting morning show is helping podcasters launch, and by Content creators build real business behind their Good morning again. Podcasting morning show. Thank you so much for being here. I am your host, Mark Ronick, and co-hosts BC Babbles, DR. Fay, Phil Better. Good morning to all of you.

1:35 Go check them out, learn more about them at Podcasting Morning show.com/people and we will get into today's topic today, but as promised from yesterday's show, I want to do our spotlight series. Bring that back. We do have a few of these figured, let's go ahead and dig into one of them, at least, because it's been a minute since my information here as I stall. Yeah, okay, here we go. This show that I want to jump into today is called I Shake My Head, and here's how they described the show to us. I Shake My Head is a funny, unfiltered podcast where everybody, everyday life, pop culture, and the absurdities honesty, sarcasm, and plenty of laughs.

2:30 It feels like sitting in on a conversation with your outspoken best friends, the kind who say exactly what everyone else is thinking. DR: It's a bunch of broads sitting around cussing, yeah, that's my, that's for me. Marc Ronick: I see that one, DR. Okay, Ralph Estep Jr.: I'm shaking my head all the way over here at the studio in Delaware, DR. I'm shaking my head. Marc Ronick: Oh, please, we already know, Ralph, that your guilty pleasure is listening to John's show, John's here in the audience right now. Ralph Estep Jr.: That is very balls in my ears when I do Marc Ronick: it. I love it. And by the way, this spotlight series, the whole idea of this and put their shows in the community is up to, and maybe necessary along the way, good, little bit of feedback. So, what we're gonna do is play their trailer right now for you, and then we'll talk about it and get your thoughts on the other side.

3:33 Here we go. Audio Clip: Hey, I'm Lisa Gibson, and I'm Sam Sperling, and we've been together. Oh no, we've been friends for 20 years. Thanks for clarifying that, Wow, 20 years. Why wouldn't we do a podcast together, right? That's 20 years of love and more than 20 years of shaking our heads at people and ourselves. We lost whatever social filters we might have had years ago. And on our weekly podcast, we'll have conversations we probably shouldn't share. We share the daily trials and tribulations of being impatient, judgmental middle-aged white chicks in their mid-50s. We're talking about aging, the good, the bad, the unexpected smells, but at least we're doing it together, one sarcastic comment at a time.

4:17 We promise a show without quite politically correct. Friday with show notes, links, Head pod.com Follow and Spotify, YouTube, or wherever Marc Ronick: So, there you go. last part, the good, the bad, I want to know what that's all DR: we don't talk about. It, I Ralph Estep Jr.: got these here on the farm. See, I raised Black Angus cows, and the smells out here, especially in July in Delaware, are amazing. Maybe there's a podcast in that for me too. DR: Not in the club. I'm so sorry, you're not in the club. So, let's just leave it at.

5:00 That Marc Ronick: Ralph, I saw before we get back to this clip, I saw that one of your cows had a baby recently. Ralph Estep Jr.: Yes, we had a Just absolutely amazing. But this mama cow decided to probably the hottest day of the year so far to be like, "You look, it's time to drop the But I'm happy to report the calf is doing great. I can't tell if it's a little boy or a little bull calf, a little girl calf, but it's out running around the pasture this morning, so it seems like it's having a great day, but it's all legs, so if you ever seen one born, they look like a table with just these long legs, and that's all there is right now. Marc Ronick: Yeah, they look teenagers, right, like the same idea, the awkward body type, DR: they gotta grow Ralph Estep Jr.: exactly, but but just consider this, if you've ever had a baby.

5:41 Baby calves are 50 pounds at birth, so just think about that. Marc Ronick: Yeah, yeah, my that gives you an idea, right That's crazy. Yeah. All right, so back to this clip. I shake my head. I'm curious after hearing it, Who do you guys think this podcast is for, like, who's their target audience? They didn't quite address that, but Dr. is pointing to herself. So it's DR: absolutely Marc Ronick: okay. It's Sid. How about you? You just raised your hand. Go for it. Sid Meadows: Yeah, I mean, it's no doubt that this podcast is targeted at middle-aged women in middle, not old age, but you trailer. It's..

6:28 I was laughing, I was smiling the whole time through it. I love how real they were, and I love how authentically they put the call to action in there about where to find everything. Marc Ronick: Yes, Sid Meadows: and we're to follow them. It was so natural, and I would imagine that if I listened to the show, my cheeks would hurt from laughing so much. Marc Ronick: There is a, an obvious chemistry that we get from that trailer, that you can just hear it from them, and yeah, there's something about their personalities and that chemistry that drew me in as well. I was smiling the whole way through when I first heard action, one that stuck out to me listen for new episodes every and transcripts, like they're why you can go check them out on I found that interesting. DR: I Like, that Marc Ronick: I also wonder, you know, we do it here, we do it all the time.

7:25 We say show notes, but does our audience really know what that means? Like, does the casual podcast listener know what show notes are? Some might, because if they're listening to a lot of shows regularly, they hear that often, but I just wonder, like, will that draw people in or not? I don't know. DR: Well, I mean, when we give out links during a show, during an episode, we will always follow it up with and just go to the show notes, right? So, I mean, one of my shows that I produce, I've gotten into the habit of just doing a really short paragraph and the links, and that's it. Marc Ronick: Okay, DR: and then on her website is where I do like the full blog post kind of show notes. Marc Ronick: Got it?

8:14 Okay, cool. Ralph Estep Jr.: I had a If you don't mind me interjecting it, not at all. So, as I was listening to the trailer, it's great. It had great energy, but I'm worried that is it going to be a lot of insider talk over the last 20 years that the audience won't get because they didn't live that experience, and that's podcast, to be very candid red light for them, maybe is to say, make sure you're laying that out, DR: do we know what Marc Ronick: I don't know what episode they're on, and listen, I can relate to that concern as somebody who hosted a show very similarly described, I'll say, right, the Mark and Lowell show was just that, two friends, friends for decades talking about our past and are present, and that can get a little inside, and the key is, and I too have not yet listened to the show, although I am intrigued, and probably will. The key is to make sure that you're always setting the joke up right, like even though your audience, the regulars, know the joke and probably don't need the setup.

9:24 find a way to make sure they are So, a lot of times, like, we'll, an inside joke would come up on that show, and at some point, and it happens here too, for that matter, and I will find a point to just squeeze my way into that conversation, interject, and and make sure that they understand what we're talking about. Ralph Estep Jr.: Hey Marc, you because John Domingo just put a comment. I don't know if he can chat about it or not, but he put a very interesting comment in the chat. Marc Ronick: John, what say you, Good morning. John: All right, I'll give you a eight years ago. And Lisa says I have a podcast and we podcast from our car and I went, oh boy, let me go listen to this dumpster file, and I wasn't wrong, the audio quality was horrible, they put a phone in a cup holder and they would have conversations, but they said that they always had these amazing conversations in the car when they were driving somewhere, so I said to them, I found something really interesting about the two of that show, the audio of it and know, but they're on episode 510 They've never missed a Friday. They, she had a heart attack on her 60th birthday, I'm sorry, her 50th birthday, she had a heart attack. Whoa, and a..

10:44 I don't know, eight six or She.. they never missed an episode. We drug up clips for the best of, and all, when she went through her surgery and everything. They've never missed an episode. They're two friends, and they used to do it in the car. They almost died of carbon monoxide poisoning one time, because they were doing it in Canada, and it was minus 50 degrees Celsius, and they were in the car with the car running in a parking garage, and they started to get carbon monoxide poisoning. Marc Ronick: Oh my god, John: so they've been doing this a long time. Finally, when Covid came in, because I was begging them to go inside, get microphones. Finally, when Covid came, they couldn't do it in the car anymore, so they went inside pretty good. So they're kind of like a pet product. They're friends of mine, they're friends of mine. They live in Canada, they're well, 2100 miles away from me. But yeah, I do their show every week. I do the I take their audio.

11:44 They do. They now use Riverside. They love it. I hate it. But DR: John, are they in the same room when they are recording? Are they like virtual John: separate rooms? They're they're in separate houses, right? Yeah. DR: Oh, okay, okay. John: That's one of the things, is Samantha has never invited Lisa to her apartment. That's one of the things, and it's, it's a fun lesson, because they don't really talk politics, and it's about the stuff that goes on in their lives and stuff. So, I think you would like it. Marc Ronick: Yeah. DR: So, do they have sponsors? John: They are monetizing. They do have, they work with a, they work with a network, some kind of women's Canadian network. They work with, Marc Ronick: oh, but John: besides that, they have one, they have a pre-roll and a mid-roll commercial, is what they use, and they don't, I think they do it through the Okay, DR: okay. Marc Ronick: And by the way, if anybody does want to check out that show, go to I Shake My Head And I believe it's a pod page website, just taking a look at it, just calling that out. Yeah, okay, cool.

12:59 And that's cool, John. Did you introduce us to them? John: I don't remember. I think I sent the promo in. Marc Ronick: Okay, John: but I don't know if they, because I told them about this show, because they do a lot of podcasting, and I find, you know, like I said, I listen to the show every day, so I find a lot of useful information about podcasting in here. Marc Ronick: Yeah, John: so I told them about it, but I don't know if they sent it, but I know I sent the promo in. Marc Ronick: Got it. Okay, very cool. That's awesome. I love the synergy here, and the way that this all comes together. That's awesome. And yeah, I'm gonna absolutely check them out. I hope you do as well. I shake my head, pod.com pod.com All right, I think it's time we dig into today's topic. That was fun.

13:47 This is why we do the spotlight stuff. I think it's a fun thing that we do here, and hopefully helpful to the podcasters. And if you want to submit yours, BC brought this up, and I think that it's important to dig into this, because a lot of sponsorship and immediately mid roll, post roll, hopefully a codes, that's the way that I see a lot of podcasters looking at this, and if your download numbers aren't quote unquote huge yet, it's easy to assume, well, I'm, I guess I'm not ready for sponsors, but what if it's a limited way of thinking about this as far as sponsorship goes, what if sponsors aren't only buying airtime? What if there are other parts of your podcast brand that carry value, carries attention, trust, influence, etc. That idea is what I'm talking about, that BC brought to us and.

15:00 Called it podcast real estate, so this morning we're asking, what does that actually mean? What parts of your show are worth offering, and how do you avoid turning sponsorship into one more overwhelming thing on your plate? So, bc before we go any version of what you mean by you think podcasters may be about ad reads. BC Babbles: Sure, I think my simplest definition of podcast real estate would be any digital as it relates to their brand, and I know it sounds broad, but I think as we go into the conversation, we'll realize that of podcasters don't realize that.

15:55 Marc Ronick: Yeah, that makes, I feel like DR. wanted to comment, am I wrong? I just thought maybe you were, you were.. DR: oh no, I immediately I sponsors. Marc Ronick: Hmmmm.. DR: you have a show and you sponsors too. I don't know if that's something that you're going to be hitting on during your talk, BC, but that's where my mind went. Marc Ronick: Yeah, that that I was thinking again recently about local, not just with sponsors, but even local promotions. I was having a conversation with that client I've told you guys about before, that they're, for lack of a way of putting it, not trying to with getting numbers, lots of feeling like they're a little said, well, maybe we need to go outside the box, you know, it's one of those, the definition of insanity, right, it's like we're doing the same thing over and over and over again, and hoping for a new result, and it's not happening, so why not start getting out there to the local community and promoting it that way, so I know that's a whole other conversation, but that got me thinking when you said that, dear, and I just wanted to call that out. So, all right, so thank you for that, BC. Appreciate that.

17:07 And this is, can be for you, BC, it can be for anybody here, right? This is a group conversation, so, but I will say this, BC, what made you start thinking personally beyond the episode itself, right? Like, I know that you have a podcast. What made you start thinking here? BC Babbles: Thankfully, it's my background in marketing. I've done a lot of marketing work with nonprofits, and as we know, nonprofits, sponsorships are a huge thing, and a lot of my previous roles not only included managing where sponsors were seen based on their packages, but also designing those sponsorship tier packages that organizations offer.

17:51 So, in doing that, I got to see just how much real estate an organization had, and I realized pretty well over to podcasters too. So, I thought that's why I started thinking this is a pretty solid topic. Marc Ronick: Yeah. Now, one other area, I guess, where I want to say is, what's one piece of podcast real estate that you or anybody here thinks podcasters commonly overlook, right? Like, we automatically assume our podcast. BC Babbles: Yeah, that's a great And I think it can be kind of an individual basis, but I think common ones would include things like websites and newsletters, any of those kind of main platforms that you use to push your content, your main content, or related content can be solid pieces of real estate that podcasters may not realize to use or leverage when it comes to sponsorships.

18:45 Marc Ronick: Yeah, absolutely. you want to say something? I just feel like you might have been. Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, I did, actually, because I think one of the things we need to focus in on is and use a real estate BC. I love that. I think the biggest piece of real estate that a lot of content creators don't get is estate, and what goes along with lot of other things. So, as we get into this discussion today, think about that, because as you open up more pieces of real estate, just make sure you're remembering your first piece of real estate is your audience. You lose that, you've got nothing left to stake your claims on, BC Babbles: can you? I love that. So, maybe a good way to look at it might be that the audience is the real estate, but the assets are the inventory.

19:28 Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, I mean, I used to play Monopoly, right? You go around the board and you would land on a property, and then you would put houses on it, you would put apartments on it. I think we have to start off with the basis of our biggest real estate as content creators is our audience, and that's where the trust starts. And then these are all things that you can bring products and services and ideas and sponsorships to your audience, but never forget that trust you've built up can be lost in an instant if you're not careful about what you introduce to your audience. I'm not trying to sidetrack the conversation. Question, I just think it's important that we start with that, because if you're a new podcaster, the only thing you have going for you is the trust that you have right now with your audience. Violate that, and you're going to spend a whole lot of time rebuilding that.

20:13 BC Babbles: Right. Marc Ronick: Thank you, Ralph and Sid. I know you want to say something, and I have a question So, DR. wants to chime in. I'm going to go to her first, and then I'll go to you with your response, and then a question for you. Go ahead, DR. DR: So, when thinking about how you can package basically something for sponsors, I do like to think outside the box, and it could be maybe alive on on Instagram, where audience members can ask questions, you know, and get direct answers from the sponsor, whoever the sponsor is. You mentioned newsletters, I think that is like my number one thing, to be honest with you. I'm a newsletter freak.

21:00 And also, how about like live events, and that kind of coincide with that, with the local, there goes my camera with the low, with the local thing going on that I had mentioned before, maybe live events, Ralph Estep Jr.: I feel like I need a soundtrack for when, when DR. camera goes black or something, like, you know, back in black, or something, maybe some ACDC, you know, that you go right there Marc Ronick: as an audio first make sense when it happens for the idea for sure. Let's see here. By the way, shout out producer Ashley in the audience. We haven't seen Ashley in a while. Great to see you, Ashley, and you are welcome to, as everyone is, but I just want to shout you out and say you're welcome to come up on stage at any point and be a part of this conversation. You are a permanent co-host here at the Podcasting Morning Show, so you're always welcome. All right, so I did want to go to Sid, I know he wanted to chime in, I think he wanted to chime in on some of those overlooked pieces of real estate. So, Sid, you're welcome to share, but I know that when I was telling you about what we were doing today, you brought up something really important.

22:15 So, also take this time to share some of that too, please. Good morning. Sid Meadows: Good morning, everybody. So to answer the question from BC, about are you about the real estate where overlooked? I think one of the places you might overlook, if you're a podcaster that does audio and video both, is your YouTube channel. You can separately monetize just your YouTube channel, which could be very beneficial. I also think that you could look at, like, your Instagram channel, for example, and monetize that separately with a with one sponsor. So, when I had my first sponsor several years ago, we had a pretty clear document about everything, and came back to me, and he said, "Hey, what about social? He was talking about Instagram and LinkedIn, and I said that was not included in our original package. I'm happy to update the proposal and give you the additional cost for it, and they passed on it, which is fine.

23:11 I knew they would pass on it. This is kind of why I positioned it that way, but you know, I think anywhere that you're publishing content is an opportunity if you're active on Substack, just to monetize that with one sponsor rather than on your show. So, I think they're anywhere you're publishing content or anywhere you're showing up as the opportunity, I think, to And to answer your question, Marc, Marc Ronick: let me stop you real quick. I had a question about YouTube channel, and yes, I totally agree with you, that is its own revenue stream in itself, and I know that you personally have shared with us before that your podcasts, you consider audio first, is that fair to say, audio first?

23:56 Sid Meadows: Yes, we're an audio component. Marc Ronick: Okay, so how do you not monetized separately. The ads that run on the audio podcast run on the video version of it, so it's not separate. Moving forward, I don't know. I'm rethinking about 2027 and what's that going to look like as it relates to monetization, because I'm going to change some things, but one of the things that I'm thinking about, along with video, is the Apple and Spotify video, that's going to cost me extra money to actually do, I'm not just going to do it and include it, so I might actually monetize or charge or find a sponsor that is the sponsor of the video, like we could say our video sponsor is blah blah blah, yeah, kind of thing.

24:45 So Marc Ronick: you know what I like about that too is when you say something like that on your audio podcast, and you say, you know, our video is sponsored by the Podcasting Morning Show, I like that because it's a cue, a subtle cue to your list. Audience that, oh, there is Subliminal kind of, Marc Ronick: yeah, almost, yeah, it's just planting that seed and allowing it to, and you may discover Sid Meadows: that somebody on discover that somebody in the when you talk about your video watch the video, right? So it can drive traffic just as much as YouTube can drive traffic to the audio. I think the audio can drive traffic to the video component as well. So, again, I'll say it anywhere that you're publishing, I think there's an opportunity for you to evaluate sponsorships and how they might work for you.

25:37 Marc Ronick: Yeah, and we study that was done that we We learned that we know that people, our audience will follow So I say, don't be shy about talking about your different platforms, whether you're audio first, video first, wherever you are. Talk about the other platforms. spiel, a big selling pitch, but you can just subtly talk about it, and those loyal listeners and they're going to, they're Ralph Estep Jr.: Hey Marc, I there. You just said it just struck me. Marc Ronick: Okay, Ralph Estep Jr.: I think one of the things that we need to do as content creators is reframe the first, because the truth is our audiences could care less if it's an audio or video, they as a group, we should start It just, it just sent me when versus video first, because I I'm audio first, well, I'm video be audience first, that's exactly what we're talking about today. Marc Ronick: Yeah, I think, and Ashley, great point. Ashley puts community first or audience first. Yeah, I'm there with you, Ashley. I think our words are important, and I think that's a great way of framing it.

26:51 Either way, however you prefer to say it, I think Ralph, yeah, you're onto something in this day and age. As podcasting has evolved, not, video is a factor now, and I think instead of saying audio first, video first, yeah, just lot more sense, and that goes to discussed. Very cool. Thank you for that, pointing that out, Ralph. All right, so sit, I mentioned a moment ago that when we talked about today's show topic, you had a concern or something important you wanted to share, please bring it to us here. Sid Meadows: Yeah, absolutely. align with what Ralph said just a few minutes ago. Monetization will elude you, real monetization will elude you. If you don't know your audience, if you don't know who your show is for, you're going to struggle making real money with your podcast, and when I say no, I don't know everything about them.

27:44 You got to be, because what the bonds actually buy again. This is aligning with What the sponsor is actually actually buying, is access to Well, who is your community? Can you clearly articulate to your com to your sponsor, potential sponsor, who your audience is, what they do, what they sell, the jobs that they hold, how old are they? Can you really communicate that? And I think the more, and I've talked to so many podcasters, and I've asked the question, Who's your audience, who's your ideal listener, and so many of them say, yeah, I don't really know, and that's honestly, that's foundational. You have to start there, and if you don't really know who they are, interview them, put a call out to interview them, and I've talked before about how I track them and the things that I do to stay connected with them, but all eight of my sponsors, and I'll talk about this at the event in August, all eight of my sponsors wanted one common thing, and that was access to my community. They wanted to be inside my ecosystem and connect with audience, and every one of them has told me how much paying getting new customers, they're work. And so, you know, I think you just got, and I know my audience, because I was one of them, and so many times when we create content, that's what we're doing, is creating content for our younger self, so you can't skip this part. This to me is just foundational, and you got to know who your audience is, or who your show is

29:15 for. Marc Ronick: Yeah, I think that's very important. And Sid, I feel like there was another thing you were concerned about, and I think it was around overwhelm with this discussion. Did you? Oh, yeah, talk about that too. Sid Meadows: Yeah. Thank you. Sorry, I haven't had a chance to go back and look at our text threads. That's okay to jog my old brain. So, one of the things that I think about as a podcaster, as a, because you're a marketer, you're marketing your show, right? Whether you have a marketing degree or consider yourself a marketer, you're a marketer. Maybe it's accidental, but you've got to market your show in order to get the reach and the visibility that you need to bring listeners or watchers into your into your ecosystem, and when you try to be everywhere and do everything.

30:00 Saying you are going to overwhelm yourself, and that's what I worry about, because, like, I do Instagram partially, LinkedIn is my primary platform. I'm considering Substack, but I keep asking myself, as I'm trying to figure out my strategy Can I be committed to this? really want to do is just really haven't answered those I don't need to just add one I got enough to do on a daily add one more thing. And so I worry about when we try to be everywhere and try to be everything to everybody, if it doesn't just create overwhelm, and I think overwhelm is one of the things that contributes to stress, that will contribute to anxiety, that will contribute to podcasters stopping, and that will contribute to pod fame.

30:52 So, I just say, be cautious. Marc Ronick: I see Ashley's agreeing with you from the audience. Yeah, I think that is We gotta. there's so many moving pieces to what we do. Adding this as a piece can really maybe be the tipping point for a lot of people, so you got to, you got to make sure But so let's, I guess that's just a good caveat, a good thing for you, the listener, to keep in mind as we dig into things like sponsor packages and the different types of things that we can put together to sell to a sponsor, and I think before we talk about those, we probably need to figure out to Sid's point where our audience is actually paying attention, you know, this goes back to what he was saying, understanding our audience, knowing our audience, right?

31:43 So, for those on stage, or if you're in the audience and you want to participate, or watching on YouTube, for those of you, where does your audience seem most responsive outside of the podcast itself? And listen, I get that some of us may say, well, this area here is most responsive, but I'm not getting a lot of people interacting with me there. But when I get some interaction, it's there. That's fine. If that's your answer, that's at least a starting point for you. If that's where you're hearing from people, even if it's from time to time, then maybe we want to think about focusing our efforts there. So I'm curious, where do you all BC, go ahead. BC Babbles: My audience right now is most responsive on my Substack.

32:35 First, second, I'd say TikTok, and then Instagram, because I'm getting a lot of the the views, and the downloads, so so far. Marc Ronick: Yeah, that makes sense. And for me, for the podcasting morning show, I would say, man, I'll tell you, I feel like engagement is down, but when I get it, sometimes I'm getting it from my newsletters. newsletter will go out and then all of a sudden I'll get a handful of replies to that me, for sure. Instagram occasionally, in the sense that I probably get - I'm not getting a lot of comments on my content lately, but I am getting people sliding into my DMs, people asking me questions, reaching out to me, curious about my services, etc. So I'd say probably, as far as where my audience connects with me, it would be those two places the most, and actually Facebook would be a big one now as well, because of our Facebook group community over at DR: LinkedIn, anything on Yes, but you know I'm gonna say no, because I feel like most of that engagement are the spammers and those guys, the spammers and scammers, but I do definitely get communication there, but it's more from my colleagues there than from my audience, but I do get some comments, I'm kind of wishy-washy here on LinkedIn, it enough credit, and I think

34:07 is first for me, where my audience is, and I get great engagement, I get decent amount of shares and comments. Second would be the LinkedIn newsletter feature, I have over almost 100 subscribers on my LinkedIn newsletter, I think, and when we do a newsletter, we do a newsletter with every interview podcast, and when we do LinkedIn email set out to the people that have subscribed and have that setting turned on, we get a over 50% open rate, and which is really high, and a seven to 8% click rate, which is also really high. And then my third would be my morning, they're getting an And the open rates are 49 to 52% The click rates are 8% and that's really good.

34:59 So you know, those are the three places that get the most engagement for me. I mean, I don't really focus a lot on Instagram. I probably should, you know, again, it's just like I'm doing it, but I'm not doing it the best way or the right way. Marc Ronick: I wonder why you say you think you should on Instagram, because is your audience there? Sid Meadows: Yes, yeah, yeah, I know that they are there. Marc Ronick: Okay, about DR: your newsletter, Sid Meadows: yeah, the LinkedIn one, yeah. DR: Well, not the LinkedIn one, I mean, do you have one aside from the LinkedIn? Sid Meadows: No, I do not. I know I do not. Again, that's something else on my list. Like, okay, I can I do this? Yeah, I can do this. Do I have time?

35:40 I don't know this. I don't, I just, I send a weekly email. it's an above the scroll. It's mostly text only, very few. If I do it, DR: that's basically what I wanted to know about. Most text only. I have been told by a few know, the artistic side of me the colors and everything, and not going to open, it's going to people's systems, and then they just, they're just going to the, you know, in the round Well, in Sid Meadows: Microsoft, DR. You have to click the download images button on my email.

36:25 I had more, more, more like scrolls, for and I hate for controlling it. I hate getting an email from somebody that's going to take me right? So I'm really protective of that. It's like if you scroll, it's a half of a scroll. I use emojis occasionally, or bullet points to bullet point the highlights of the episode, and my call to action is always the same, and you know it's just really simple and easy to read, and I'm just really protective because I'm really, and listen, a couple of years ago I edited that email list from 2000 people down to 500 If you had never opened up an email for me, I took you off my list, and my marketing person was like, 'You sure you want to do this? I'm like, 'Yes.

37:05 And when I did, my open rate skyrocketed. My click-through rate skyrocketed, focused on the people that want to hear from me, and so I'm emailing them today. Thursday, I'm emailing them today. Rarely send an extra email, but I am sending an extra email today at 115 about the new program that I launched, the private podcast, and I'm anxious to see how that goes, because there were some other things that I did this past week about the private podcast that has really yielded great results, we could talk about later, but you know, I'm just super protective of that email list, because they're engaged with me, and I'm never going to spam them. Marc Ronick: Fair enough.

37:45 Thank you, Sid. And, yeah, good question, DR. Appreciate that one. So, all right, well, Ralph Estep Jr.: Marc, can I jump in there for a second? Marc Ronick: Oh, yeah. Sorry, Ralph, I saw you wanted to say so. Ralph Estep Jr.: No, it's okay, because I don't want to overlook something that Sid just said without saying it. Catch what Sid is saying, he's measuring results in each of these things, and that's the thing I think a lot of content creators overlook. You might do 15 different things, are you measuring the results of each one? I work with small business clients every day, time and time I'll say to a small business client, all right, tell me about this service you offer, is it profitable for you? Tell me about this service, is it profitable for you? As a content creator, you've got to be doing the same thing, and that's exactly what Sid is saying.

38:29 Sid is saying, I'm measuring what platforms am I going to be on, what real estate am I going to get into, what is actually understand what that looks like, because then you can make a wasting time or not. Sid said something about, well, I probably should be on this or I'm not on this. You got to have empirical evidence to say, okay, is it moving the needle or not? I just wanted to jump in there and say that, because that's something that Sid is, he's rock monetization, is he knows what's working, and he's measuring it, and he's comparing it to other things that aren't working. Marc Ronick: Yeah, exactly. Why I brought that question up. Where are you connecting most with your audience right now? Where are they engaging with you? That for that very reason, to help us all think about that, set maybe aren't moving our yeah, to the point earlier that Sid made about the fact that we can all get really overwhelmed sometimes that's just because we got to be there, you got to sell it this way, and you got to do it that way, and that's burnout, so I think it's just important know is starting to work, or and then fuel that fire. Yes, Sid, go ahead.

39:52 Sid Meadows: Sid, I just want to in the comments, Ralph and Marc, I just wanted to be very. Be clear, it appears, is that I've got my crap together on a daily basis, that I am super organized and zeroed in, and some things I am, but I just want to hot us on most days, but I'm not afraid to try something, I'm not afraid to put myself out there and try something, so though it may sound like I'm just like fully organized and dialed in, I certainly don't feel that way on is really challenging, and like, try this, and if this works, that's great, if this works, that's great, if it doesn't, what did I take away from it, and what can I do differently or better, and so, you know, I'm not afraid to try new things, but I am not as together as it sounds.

40:46 Ralph Estep Jr.: It's how it that's all the matter. Marc Ronick: Yeah, I mean, and look to me, Sid, that I look at you as having your crap together afraid to try new things, and I am willing to admit that's my weakness right there. I hesitate when it comes to trying new things. I make lots of excuses. I tell myself why I shouldn't try that thing, because it's maybe one of the big ones that are the recurring things, is because it's going to take a long time for it to finally work, right? There's a build up, and I don't, and I'm impatient for that build up.

41:28 So, I respect and appreciate that you do try new things, and I look at people who do try new things as having their crap together, or at least maybe more so than I have mine together. DR: Is that your ADHD, or is that just a marc thing? Marc Ronick: I don't know. I hear it's common among people with ADHD, because our executive functioning doesn't work quite like the average person's does. can be really hard for us, but DR: I wanted to just mention and John, Dave said they do a and John says he has a discard, sorry, a Discord cord server where I interact with my working it, they're working it, Marc Ronick: nice, nice, yeah.

42:21 Okay, so I think we, we've talked about the areas we want to focus on, the areas that we maybe should be focusing on before. I think now let's talk a little bit about sponsor packages, pricing, and talking about that real estate a little bit more. I know that we've mentioned things like newsletters, places like Substack and social media, and if there are others that we haven't mentioned yet, by all means share them with us here today on stage, and let's talk about it, like maybe using some examples of how we're packaging things, and maybe Sid's a great place to start here. Sid, could you give us an example of maybe a package that a podcaster might want to start with something that maybe is not too overwhelming for them, but they're still hitting all the different areas of real estate that they have. Sid Meadows: Yes, so this is a really great question, and you know what I would tell you, we're not to start is selling ads, don't start selling Marc Ronick: ads yesterday. Sid Meadows: Yeah, just don't start selling ads, because you're gonna.. it's a hustle to try to sell a 32nd ad, and then you're gonna get into the battle that doesn't work for independent podcasters.

43:39 So, I would not start selling ads, but what I would do is actually look at my ecosystem and look at where, where your content is getting the most reach for your ideal client or your ideal listener, and I would start small. I would not try to do That was one of the mistakes I made. We made our sponsorship program too complicated for us, it looks really great on a piece of paper, and the whole purpose was I got to make it easy for them to say yes, and I gave them too much, and on the back end it has been a pain in my butt for us to get all this together and attract to make sure we're doing everything that we committed to them that we would do, because I don't want a phone call or a conversation when I'm asking for coming up in a couple of months.

44:25 When I'm asking them to renew, I don't want to hear, 'Well, Sid, you didn't live up to this part of it, and we didn't get our money's worth, you didn't do this, you didn't do that. So start small, just maybe pick one thing, and then I would also encourage you to think long term. So I've had several friends that sell monetization in a three to five episode package. I would not recommend that, because you're always selling and you're always trying to find the next sponsor for the next thing, and then you get busy and you got monetized for the entire season, so you sign a contract with me for the. Entire seasons of my show, so maybe just pick audio only, start small, and then think bigger picture, and try to get a year, or a minimum of six trying, you're not having to every day. DR: Is that how long your seasons are? Sid, six months.

45:23 Sid Meadows: No, no, my season We take December and January off, and so when you buy my packages at 10 months, so somebody that signs up as my, as contract to pay me $25,000 over the course of the year of the 10 months, BC Babbles: nice. That's impressive. Marc Ronick: Yeah, and I'm gonna back slightly here, because if we're talking right now to a brand new podcaster, I think what you just suggested, Sid, could be really overwhelming for them to, for the bring it on, right, because the first time that they're maybe selling their time, they may feel like, I don't know, how I'm gonna pitch 612, months for a package, it feels like a lot to me, and if for those people, I feel like then starting out small just to get their feet wet would do them good, you know, selling, finding a local sponsor, like DR. had brought up earlier, finding a local sponsor, and maybe pitching 123, whatever that is, just a couple of single host read mentions, tell them where you're going to add it in the show notes, and maybe that you're going to mention them in your newsletter as well, but like trying to keep it small just to build that confidence, I think could go a long way.

46:47 So, what do you think, Sid? Sid Meadows: You're not wrong, Marc. You're not wrong. And I guess I would say I probably wasn't thinking about the podcast or just getting started, but because the podcaster just getting started may not be committed just yet to doing a full season or a full year of episode, they may not even be committed to a consistent schedule of weekly or monthly publishing. So, you're certainly not wrong. What I'm just suggesting, it's a grind to constantly be trying to sell ads for your podcast, or to sell sponsorships for your podcast, and I'm not a fan of the grind, and I think the grind can start to feel really heavy and be one of those reasons that you say I just can't do this anymore, right? So to your point, start small, and I, Billy, and I have I am a huge fan of local businesses and the reach that you could give a local business, if you have a local local podcast, if your podcast is specific to a town or a city or a region, and that's where your audience is, and you're talking about local things like community-focused podcast, meaning your community, then there is a plethora of advertising opportunities for you and sponsorship opportunities in your local market.

48:03 I'm a huge fan of that. Marc Ronick: One caveat to that, but you may have a large section of your audience from your area, or maybe they're from another area, and you go local to that area to try to pitch local sponsors, right? So it doesn't necessarily have to be a show about the local area, but if you are going to pitch local shows, it's going to be to your advantage to be able to say, yeah, and you know, 70% of my audience, they come from this particular area, that would be still a value to a sponsor. Let's, Ralph, you wanted to Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, and I Marc, but one of my concerns if I think about what the goal sponsorship to benefit from this a small number of episodes, if think you might be doing don't think there's going to be enough time.

49:04 There's not going to be enough repetition in that, and I know that I know that's not what you're saying, Mark. So, I'm not contradicting you, I'm just.. I'm just saying, I think we'd be careful of that, because I think when I was doing radio advertising, it was some ridiculous number, like the times before they make Marc Ronick: technically seven, but seven, okay, but Ralph Estep Jr.: yeah, it was a big number. So, what I'm thinking is, if you're just going to have, you know, three shows with sponsor red ads, I think your sponsor is going to be disappointed, because I don't think there it's going to move the needle, unless you have a really big audience. That's just my counterpoint on that. That, like I said, it's not my goal to be combative on this, I just feel like we have to be careful of that, and that's one of the reasons where Sid thinks about what Sid said, he's selling a year's worth of sponsorship for $25,000 I guarantee if you talk to his sponsors, they want to make four or five times that in revenue based on that sponsorship, and that's why they're willing to spend.

49:59 In that money, I think we even, for the new independent podcaster, we need to think about these sponsorship relationships, need to be more intermediate terms, so that the sponsor can feel good about it and actually see a return on their investment. Marc Ronick: Let me just say this, and then I'll give you the floor, Sid. One thing is, is that I do believe that radio, and although there aren't statistics that I know of out there right now, but radio and podcast audiences are very different when it comes to the power of ads, right. Podcast audiences are way more responsive, and there is data out there way more responsive to frequency is as high for a podcast, you know, seven times, I don't know for sure about that, but I do know that they are way more responsive. And then Ralph, I can't disagree saying too, that you're going to save yourself a lot of time and headache if you can sell a bigger meaning time over time, a And again, I've worked with enough new podcasters that maybe don't have the sales chops that they're too intimidated to try to go out there and sell something massive like that.

51:16 And so I just want people, I want to give those people permission to go small at get build up some confidence and your pocket. I'm not, it's you're not going to retire off it, but I think that'll give you the momentum you're looking forward to then start shooting for bigger and better things. That's where I was going with that. Go ahead, Sid. Sid Meadows: So, when I was There was a company that I really wanted, and I knew the CEO really well, had gotten to know him over the years pretty well. When I pitched it to him, he was marketing director in, and he wasn't able to make the call when I had the call with the marketing director, and she was the naysayer. She didn't want to do it, and she's like, 'Yeah, this is really expensive, Sid, and I'm just not sure the value is And I was pitching them the gold sponsorship.

52:07 I only have two gold positions, and she goes, 'I think it'd be better for us to be a silver sponsor, which is significantly less money, $7,500 for the year, right? So, significantly less money. The CEO believes in me, believes in the podcast, so he signed up for the gold sponsorship, and she was still an ace there. She was a pain in my butt for the first couple of months of the show, and her logo wasn't here, this wasn't there, and she pushed me really hard, and you know, I pushed through it all. And then I met her in June at our furniture show, and I was in a showroom. She happened to be there. I'd never met her in person, I'd only seen her on camera, and she grabbed me and stopped me and said, "Hey, Sid, I'm blah blah with blah blah. And I went, "Oh my gosh, it's so great to meet you.

52:54 We chatted for a minute, and she looked me dead in the face and said, "Sid, I'm so glad that we sponsored your podcast the way we did, we have gotten multiple leads from your show, and right there is the value, whether it's not up to me to close those leads for them, they have to do their job, but I got them the leads, and it becomes a warm lead because it's so you know, but my point being is I had a naysayer, and I was able to, through doing what I do every day of the week, I was able to turn her into a fan, and I'm pretty confident that they will re-up again when we have that conversation, so, but to Ralph's point, they are looking for results, they are looking to is a trip, double, triple their investment, and probably for this guy, because they're a software company, one sale probably doubles the investment that he's made in my show, and he's got multiple leads, it's up to him to close them, but he's gotten what I could give him, which was the opportunity, and somebody knocking on his door, saying, I want to learn more. Marc Ronick: That is a cool story. I love that.

54:05 Thank you, Sid. All right, so I was just thinking about here, you know, we haven't really gotten into a lot of the different types of packages, but I think it's important to share with with you if you're still curious and in wanting some more here, I think the idea is to find those areas that are, you know, where your audience is and find ways to package this together. So, what does that mean? Let's say you're going to give a mention on your podcast, you're going to do a once a week, once a month, whatever that frequency is, social media post about that sponsor, and you're gonna put an ad or a mention in your newsletter, and then what's one other thing that we could throw out there that maybe they, we you could put an Instagram reel or something like that with their logo on it, or something, DR: product placement, Marc Ronick: product. Placement video, DR: you can have something in the background Marc Ronick: event sponsor.

55:07 on your YouTube banner, their logo on your Instagram banner, little pluses. Marc Ronick: And then I, you know what, Sid. So, how do we figure out? Let's wrap it up with this. How do we figure out how to price stuff like that right? Because I know that's a big question that podcasters ask It's like, okay, this sounds great, but I have no idea what to charge for that. Sid Meadows: So it's a great question, Marc. And the first and foremost thing you should do is look at what your show costs you, how much money are you outlay? Look at, like, your real cost of production of your show, and include your time, right? And if you don't know how much mathematical formula that you basically take however much the course of a year, divide number of working hours, air your hourly rate. So, if it takes you four hours, then the cost is four hours times your hourly rate, plus whatever production costs that you may pay to someone else. If you have a business coach or a podcast coach, that's the cost.

56:17 So, look at all those costs, and then from there I would, at a minimum, double that. At a minimum, I would double that. So, if everything in all in cost so you can make money on it. You can make profit on it. Right now, I'm going to be really clear here. I just made it up. I just made it up. I'll talk about this at Power Podcasting Three when I give my workshop, and at Pod Fest. When I speak at Podfest about this topic, I just made it up. I thought I knew how much I had a target of how much money I wanted to make. I wanted my podcast to bring in $100,000 in revenue, that was my goal.

56:59 looked at the math to figure it out, and then I said, "Okay, I'm gonna have this many of this sponsor, and this many of that And so I mean, I got close to my goal, I got to $80,000 on an annual basis, so I got close, and I'm really happy with, I'm really, really happy with that. And I learned a lot about what to do differently, but you have to look at what the show cost you to get it out the door, and then determine how much you want to make, and start there. You can always come down. I would discourage negotiation, but you can always come down. It's really hard to go up. Marc Ronick: Wow, thank you, Sid. Great stuff. I can't, couldn't say it any better myself.

57:40 And I see BC has his hand up, so we'll give BC a chance to chime in here as well. Go ahead, BC. BC Babbles: One quick additional should someone, let's say, a delegate production to a small able to afford use this new cost, so instead of to produce, calculate it in this to, and make that the beginning sponsor tier. Sid Meadows: I mean, yes, I mean, I outsource my how much it costs me, right? So, yes, you can do that, but you have to know what it costs you.

58:24 But I noticed in the comments that Ralph disagrees with my, with my thought there, and I would love to hear his thought on it, because he's not wrong based on the comment that I saw. Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, so, and I I got to run too. But here's my opinion on this: I think cost is the absolute worst thing to look at. I think what you've got to look at is what is the value you're bringing to the sponsor. What is the value you're bringing to your audience? If you look at cost, you're going to consistently under price what your value is. When I sell accounting services, I don't look at what it costs me to deliver those, I look at the value that I'm bringing to the person, I'm looking at the value that I'm bringing to the, you got to do the same thing with your content creation. I don't disagree with the idea, Sid, that the cost has to be a floor.

59:09 Fine, but the problem is, so many content creators are going to hear that, and they're going to go, "Well, as long as I'm meeting my cost, I've got a little bit of revenue. Great, you said it yourself. You had one particular sponsor who hit a home run with this, that's the value that you bring, and I just think that that's a better place to start, because we will constantly undersell ourselves if we're only focusing on the cost. Marc Ronick: It's funny, because of the podcasters I work with undervalue what they offer. DR: I was trying to figure out amount I wouldn't even know how to do that right.

59:49 Marc Ronick: So I think that's I think I don't think Sid's wrong, I don't think Ralph is wrong. I think it's both. It's understanding what your costs are, because otherwise you. Might put a value on it, and then be selling yourself short and losing money, right? So, you do have to factor that in. What's your cost? But to Ralph's point, that's only one step, because just because it costs you a certain amount of money, it could be way more valuable for your sponsors in the long run. So, I think it is a combination. I really do. I think it's smart to think about cost, and then even smarter to think about what value does this bring. DR: So, Ralph, maybe on one of Mondays anymore, but the Monday to Monday Tuesdays.

1:00:34 Yeah, yeah, you can talk about how we can figure out what that value is worth, is there a formula or something like that? Just a thought. Marc Ronick: Okay, cool. Ralph's not in his head. All right, cool. So we will look forward to that coming soon. And let's wrap with this. Your podcast real estate is the space where your audience pays attention, they respond, they trust your voice. That might be your episode, it be a live room, like this, you I didn't even say that, right? Like Clubhouse is probably really where I get the most interaction from my audience on a regular basis, right? It could be your niche community, the website, recurring conversations that you've built over time. The opportunity is to know what you have, know what matters, and build sponsorship opportunities around the real relationships that you have with your audience. So, let's leave it right there, and remind you that we do not have a show tomorrow morning, Friday, because it is now our summer schedule.

1:01:39 We do this every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Yes, at 8am Eastern time. So, come join us by going to Podcasting Morning show.com/join us. And until Tuesday, make it a great Fourth of July weekend to those who celebrate. Take care.