494. Most Podcasters Ignore This Powerful Nostalgia Hook

0:04 Good morning podcasters. Today is Monday, April 13th, 2026, and today we're doing our obsession Worthy podcast show. Today's podcast is called The Decoder Ring and specifically we're covering the Mcgruff the Crime Dog series. Part 1 of this episode. We're going to break it down and see what we can learn from it. So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, top right hand side of the screen and share. However Clubhouse lets you. If you want to join us live on video, go to podcastingmorningchat.com/join us. If you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn, etcetera, please show this episode with a fellow podcaster. Now give me about 30 seconds and we'll get things going.

0:45 Thank you so much for being here today. The Podcasting Morning Chat is powered by Ironic Media, helping podcasters launch, Polish and grow great shows, and by Content Creators Accountant, helping creators build real business behind their content. Well, good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining me here today.

1:31 I am filling in for Mark Ronik today. He had a rough night sleeping, so I am going to do my best to get through this today. We're going to trudge through and make it work as we can. So today we're talking about Obsession Worthy Podcast and joining me on stage right now. We have Nick Naubach, we have Sid Meadows, and also joining us on stage is Nikki AKA Tide tutoring. So thank you so much for being here today. So today we're talking about a show called Decoder Ring. And Decoder Ring is a show about cracking cultural mysteries. Now in each episode, this is hosted by Willa Pashkin, she looks at the cultural, looks at a different cultural object or habit and examines its history and tries to figure out what it means or why it matters, which is really a cool concept.

2:22 Now, if any of you are older, like me dating myself here a little bit, this is Mcgruff. Now Mcgruff takes a bite out of crime Part 1. This one actually was split into two pieces and it's a case study and why nostalgia is an outrageously effective content hook because it grabs your attention with the shared memory, then earns permission to go deeper into history systems and really into its meeting. So this is such a obsession worthy podcast. Now this episode uses the familiar your trench coat Bloodhound, what Jonathan put in his notes in the bizarre, catchy smart kids album orbiting him as a single narrative handle for a much bigger story about public service announcements, about media saturation and what impact actually means.

3:07 The episode uses that to really be effective in this. Now, this episode isn't really about a PSA campaign. When I listen to this, and I hope other people have had a chance to listen to this, this original thing was sort of about a PSA announcement, but this episode is not that. It's about something you remember so clearly and what you thought it was isn't actually what happens. It takes that shared childhood memory and slowly pulls it apart. Now the hook in this when we talk about hooks as we talk about obsession worthy, the hook is nostalgia and the payoff is identity disruption. So let's talk about that emotional hook nostalgia. I think nostalgia is really a great thing that we can look at not in a in a fluffy remember this way, but in a weaponized way. I know weaponize is a tough word to use, but it creates instant trust.

3:57 When this happens, when you feel that emotional hook, you can go back and you say, Oh yeah, I remember this. But it creates that instant trust. It lowers resistance because you have a shared feeling here that nostalgia is something you remember and it makes the listener feel like, hey, this is for me personally, when I was listening to this episode, it was very much that. It made the listener feel like this is for me today and it pulls you into a story before you can even realize it. And I, I don't know about anybody else that listened to this, but that was definitely my feeling. And I'm going to get to the first CLI here in a second. But this is the same principle behind what you've already seen. And that is start with what the audience already cares about. But here's the upgrade. Nostalgia doesn't just create curiosity, it creates emotional ownership.

4:42 And now the listener isn't just listening, they're personally invested. So let's get into our first clip today. And this is the first one from the decoder ring. When Daniel Danger was growing up in the early 1990s, he had a number of run insurance with this one particular dog. It's just this weird presence, you know, this weird grumpy old cartoon dog. I'm Mcgruff the Crime Dog. McGrath was a trench coat wearing Bloodhound with a hangdog demeanor who dispensed advice about crime prevention, personal safety, guns and drugs. Oh, you don't know me. See, it's my job to teach you to protect yourselves. Make it your job to learn.

5:23 He also had a catch phrase. Pick a bite out of crime. So that was the first clip, and you can hear Mcgruff, and it's funny. I'll certainly open the floor up to anybody else who wants to comment. But as soon as I heard that voice, I said, I know that voice. And as soon as I heard that voice, that vibe, that memory hit you instantly. And what that does is it triggers recognition before logic even kicks in. Right away, you're like, oh, I know this voice. And it makes the listener feel smart because you have this feel like I know this and what that does to the listener, it creates emotional safety. But here's the twist. It's a setup the show is about to tell you. You don't actually remember this the way you think you do. And that was kind of a turn for me because as soon as I heard that, oh, this is going to be about those PSA announcements that gruff the crime dog, I could just picture my own theater of their mind, as they say. I could see that going on right away. But there's a twist here in this. Nostalgia is really doing three things. Jonathan put in his notes here.

6:23 It's 3 heavy lifts at once. The first thing it's doing is speed doesn't require some long setup. A lot of the Obsession worthy podcasts that we've looked at require a bigger long setup. With this one, you're in immediately. You recognize the voice, you recognize the character. The second thing it does is it builds trust. Trust by this shared memory. And as soon as you have that shared memory, it's instant credibility. So that's the second thing. First thing was seed. No long setup needed. The second trust and 3rd is identity isn't just content, it's your childhood, it's your experience, it's your memory. And that is really the truth. And I, I see Nikki put it in the comments. All I can focus on is that she referred to the 90s and the 1990s.

7:09 I agree with you Nikki, I don't know about you, but it made me feel a little bit old because that was sort of, I just graduate. I graduated from College in 1994, graduated from high school in 1990, but I thought that was an interesting thing. The other thing it does is, like I said, speed, trust and identity because you're really feel as, and once that identity is involved, game over. Now you've got to listen. As soon as I heard that and I'll if anybody else wants to comment, but as soon as I heard that, I said, hey, the listeners got to stay into this because now I'm invested in this. So why is nostalgia so powerful? Does anybody want to comment about why they think nostalgia is so powerful? I think it's really a good thing to use, and I know as I get a little older, nostalgia really connects with me. Did anybody wanna make a comment about nostalgia? I can chime in here.

7:55 Go ahead, Nick. Thank you. One of the things I think is really interesting with the nostalgia piece, and I think is what makes it such a powerful tool, is you take that listener from just being like casually listening in the background. They might be kind of tuning in and out, but once you introduce nostalgia, you get that listener actively thinking. You get them like reminiscing on the memories that they have based on, in this case, taking a bite out of crime. And they're no longer just passively consuming the content anymore. You actually have them doing something, even if it's just within their own and they are getting involved in some form or fashion, which I think is such a powerful thing because, I mean, I can't speak for everybody, but a lot of times I'll listen to podcasts and I'm tuning in and out the entire time I'm listening. Like something will catch my attention and I listen for a little bit and then my mind starts wandering elsewhere until something else pulls me back in.

8:48 This actively gets you involved in the conversation, essentially. Absolutely, Nick, thank you so much for sharing it. And I agree with you. I do a lot of listening to podcasts when I'm out walking on the farm in the morning and if I find myself talking back to the host, that means I'm invested in that. Nick and I agree with you. And I think that's one of the things that we can all take away. You know, one of the reasons we do this obsession worthy podcast is for all of us to find something that we can use that have made these other podcasts great. And what Jonathan put here in his notes is a nostalgia doesn't just remind you of something. It reminds you of who you were when it happened. And I don't know about anybody else, but I started thinking about I'm trying to think what was going on when I heard that Mcgrimm Mcgruff the Crime dog the first time. And that way it hits you, it would deeper information and you get straight to the emotional hook here. But Nick, I just want to champion what you said because you're absolutely right.

9:41 So many of us are multitasking when we're listening to podcasts. And when you can bring the audience in to where they're actively engaged, they want to know what happens next. Like I said, I find myself sometimes shouting back to the host even though I know they can't hear me. But that really is a great thing. So let's get to our second clip. Hooks with a nostalgia and then adds layers to the story as a story goes from hey, remember Mcgruff to here is how he is created. And I thought this was really cool and here's how successful he was and more. So we're going to get right to our second clip right now. How present APSA was in their lives and McGrath was absolutely a smash on this score. By 1984, he was on postage stamps and meeting with the president.

10:27 He was widely credited with the rise of neighborhood watch programs, which he talked about with Dick Cavett. Now, do I understand that neighborhood watch programs have reduced crime in some areas as much as 50%? That's right, But there's more to be done. And he was thought to be fantastic with kids. Kids loved him. Sherry Nemers, who helped create McGrath. Yeah, so that was our second clip. And this clip shows how they're turning nostalgia into credibility. That first clip was, oh, I remember this, But the second clip was that wasn't random. And what they were telling us here is this worked at scale. Now the listener isn't just reminiscing, they're thinking, wait, this was really powerful.

11:08 And as soon as I heard Mcgruff sort of talking to Dick Kavita, I thought, that's a really interesting way to do it. But because before that moment, Mcgruff is just this mascot or a memory or some vibe you might have had a little bit of remembrance of. But after you hear this clip, he becomes a tool that influenced behavior, something tied to actual crime reduction and something adults took seriously. And for me, most people's content lives live here. It's relatable, it's entertaining, and it's emotional, but it's missing one thing and that's proof of impact, which I think this particular obsession where the podcast did splendidly because this clip shows those 3 layers and those 3 layers are this number one recognition.

11:54 You start to say to yourself, I know this, I know what's going on here. I remember when this happened. You start to fill in all the blanks. You go and think about, oh, I remember when that was, I was in high school or I was in college or I was working my first job, whatever that looks like. Maybe you were a young person and then it ties you into emotion and you start to think, I like this. It connected to me. That emotion is so very impactful. If you can build that into your shows. And the third thing, the impact, this worked. And that third layer, that's what builds authority and that's what we really need to do is build authority. Does anybody want to comment upon those 3 layers, Recognition, emotion and impact, and maybe how you've used it in your own content to be successful?

12:39 Go ahead, Nick. I haven't used it in my own content like that necessarily, but I do think it is fascinating. Like with something like this, the thing that really pulls you in as you remember it from watching it on TV, but you likely did not hear about or did not understand the impact to what you were saying there because you're just consuming the content as a child or in high school or whatever. And I think that is what makes some of that nostalgia so powerful, because you're learning something new about something that is familiar to you. And it's something that you remember greatly. But then they start peeling back all these different pieces of it that you never knew because you were just watching the dog on TV and getting the messages and stuff like that. Be like, Oh yeah, that's really cool. That's awesome.

13:23 Like, I love him. But you never, you're getting more facts that you never knew. And I think people really enjoy learning new things about something that they have been familiar with or they are familiar with. I I just that is another power to the nostalgia play there. I absolutely agree with you, Nick. And because it's one thing to say, oh, I remember this, one thing to say, I like this. But then the impact of that is what ties this all together. That third layer. That's what builds authority when you can build all three layers into your content recognition, emotion and impact. Because it's one thing to use nostalgia. Oh, yeah, I remember that. Oh, yeah. I remember the emotion of that. But the impact is huge because that impact is why it worked. And, and you're right, Nick, as we start to peel back the onion, we start to understand why this was done. What was the purpose of it.

14:14 To me, that was really cool because I really didn't know the back story of this. And the back story for me was really, really important to this. And like I said, that Clip 1, the nostalgia drags you in. Clip 2, the nostalgia actually worked and had impact. Now we're going to get to Clip 3 here in a second. But Clip 3 is this is where it grew into an expansive ecosystem. And I really think that's what we take. So we built on the potness. We built. OK, here's what we remember, here's the things we do, all that sort of thing. Now, before I forget, I want to do one thing here. And that is I should have mentioned this at the beginning of the show. Don't forget you can still have time to enter to win my duo. That is the Rogue Broadcaster Duo. We would love to hear you to go check that out. You also get an hour of monetization coaching and you can do that by going to podcastingmorningchat.com/duo. Again, that's podcasting morning chat.com/duo and you can win my duo.

15:12 I threw in an SD card and one hour coaching. So it's pretty much ready to go, ready to set up and get rolling. So again, you have until this Friday to enter that. That's a podcasting morningchat.com/duo. All right, well let's get to clip #3. Anti drug messaging flourished. This song and music video from 1985 featured Whitney Houston, latoya Jackson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, David Hasselhoff and the first lady herself. Celebrities did solo Psas too, I. Just want to shake some senses to you kids that I use in drugs and think about you for your memo.

15:54 Don't or else. That's Mr. T and sitcoms like Punky Brewster spread the message, too. Are you going to? Party with us. No. In 1986, against the backdrop of the rising crack epidemic, Reagan signed the Anti Drug Abuse Act. It earmarked 1.7 billion additional dollars for the war on drugs and established new mandatory minimum prison sentences. Reagan also signed a proclamation declaring the first official Just Say No to Drugs Week. And it's in this environment that Mcgruff the Crime Dog decided to lend his voice to the cause.

16:37 You know, I just thought this was really cool because again, they tie into nostalgia. As soon as I heard Mr. TS voice the theater, the mind took off. I pictured this guy with those gold change hanging around and you could see that rough exterior. And then they pivoted to Punky Brewster. And then they went to Ronald Reagan, which for me, I was born in 1972. So when Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, I was 8 years old. That was a time in my life I can remember being engaged with television and all that sort of thing. So what this clip #3 does is it zooms out from the success of a single mascot to look at the full ecosystem that was built around this. And this wasn't just Mcgruff. This was everywhere.

17:20 If you think back to that time, if you were old enough to remember those times, this anti crime stuff was on TV, the government was talking about it, culture, it was no longer a campaign. It's a system of influence. And that's really what this ties into and what Jonathan puts in his notes here. He's got it in big bowl print. Repetition builds belief and trust and that's one thing that most people miss with content. Repetition matters, you know, if you just say it one time, people aren't going to get it. You've got to build in that repetition. I've used that repetition in my Daily Show quite a bit because I want to reinforce a message, for example, like my morning show that I do every morning, that's a Daily Show.

18:02 It's not a morning show like this one, but a Daily Show. I always talk about what's the purpose of this show? That one is a 10 minute show to help you break that cycle of financial shame that so many people live in and every single episode so points to that again. Does anybody else want to comment about how they've used repetition to build that belief? I'll jump in. Go ahead, say thank you so. I don't use it enough. I do use it and I do catch myself repeating things a couple of times to reinforce my point. But I think research or statistics show that you need to for people to really remember something. You got to say it 7 times, and I'm nowhere near that, right? But I do think it's important, especially if you're trying to drive home a point, which is also repetition is a good way to like if you're doing a solo episode and you want to make your points at the end, recap the points.

18:52 Like I just want to remind you, the three things we talked about today are boom, boom and boom. And what I want to take away from this is boom, boom and boom. So I think there's easy ways to do it, especially depending on whether it's the interview or a solo episode. But I did have a flashback memory, which is kind of the point about this nostalgia. When Reagan's voice came on, or when I mentioned Reagan, I heard my mind thought about the fry pan and the egg. This is your brain, and this is your brain on drugs. Do you remember that one? Absolutely. And that's I went to the same thing. I'm starting to think I'm seeing that cast iron skillet. And Nick, I'm going to come to you in a second, but I'm seeing that cast iron skillet, Sid and I'm thinking about that sizzling sound and I'm thinking about how that just captured, I don't want to say a generation, but it kind of did, didn't it, Sid? Because we knew as soon as we saw that case, we heard you. You heard that sound.

19:43 You just knew where that was going. And I agree with you, Sid. Go ahead. Nick, you said you wanted to make a comment. Yeah. So I think Sid was kind of venturing down the point that I was going to make as well, but I'll just expand on it a little bit. Sid mentioned needing to say or repeat your message 7 times before it lands, and it actually goes a step further than that even. People need to hear your message 7 times and. If you're only saying it 7 times, how many times are they catching it? Especially when you think about social media, how quick content moves. You could post it 7 times and your followers might not see it at all, or maybe they see it one time or maybe 2 times. But I think that's a very common pitfall of creators. And I'm just as guilty, if not one of the most extreme cases of guilty in this regard, because every time I'd go to create content, I was always trying to think of what is something completely new that I haven't said that I can kind of blow my followers away with.

20:40 And really, you need to be recycling the same content in a way or reiterating the same message, even if it's not the exact same wording, like you're pushing across the same message to your followers so that over time they're going to start seeing that multiple times. And it, it one, makes it easier as a creator because you're not having to think of, OK, what is something I haven't said yet before that I can say now. But two, it allows you to start establishing that message and let people know like, hey, this is what you do, or this is your offer, or this is how you can benefit them. And I yeah, I just think as a whole, as creators, we don't do that nearly enough. I agree with you, Nick and Nick, I agree with you. It's interesting doing a Daily Show. I find that to be the case because my daily shows about finances, there's only so many ways I can say the same thing about finance.

21:32 But I was working with a coach when I first got started and he said, Ralph, what you're really doing is you're building your dogma. You're building the things that you believe in. And he was absolutely right in that because those are the things that help you develop that rapport with your audience. They know what you stand for. They know the things that you're always going to say. And as you mentioned a little bit earlier, Nick, it's that time where people will say to me, oh, I already knew what you were going to say, Ralph. I already know where your angle is on that. And that's all about repetition. Now, Jonathan put in his notes. And here, it's not just people saw Mcgruff, it's that they saw all these people saying similar things. We talked about Mr. T, the sitcoms were full of it. This was a time when music videos were doing that. The first lady was even mentioned in here, and Sid alluded to that a little bit.

22:18 Just say no. And it was a national policy. So we're not just talking about messaging. We're talking about campaigns. We're talking about this was a time where there was a lot of discussion about crime and drugs and policy incarceration, and this is the real world consequence territory that we found ourselves in. And the truth is people didn't believe Mcgruff because of one message. If it was just Mcgruff out there saying it, I don't think it would have been as effective. They believed him because they couldn't escape the message. It was all around them. It was on television, it was on music videos. I guess this was a time, as I think back to it now, our MTV was still in its heyday.

22:58 That recognition gets attention, that repetition builds belief, and that saturation creates culture. Now, I'm not sure that all of us are in a position to saturate the airwaves with our stuff, but Nick, I think it goes alongside of what you said there. And that is go back to the things that you believe in because that's what's going to help you build your audience. What do you think of that thought, Nick? Yeah. I think that's that on. I mean, you look at the look what the bigger brands are doing. They are constantly like, I feel like this is possibly exaggeration, possibly not, but they are saturating the market with their message. That is what they are trying to do. And you listen to radio, you watch TV, you see the same ads over and over again.

23:39 Like I'm sure all of us can think of jingles that we've heard on TV from when we were little. That just, it's always going to be ingrained in your mind. And the only reason it's ingrained in your mind is because you were exposed to it over and over and over again. Like it's an effective way to establish yourself, your brand, your messaging. And yeah, I think I don't know why we don't as creators do that enough. If it's because we feel like we have to like looking for that viral moment, that one thing that's going to like blow everyone's mind if we just watch what the big companies are doing, the big corporations, how they are marketing. I think we need to kind of think maybe not that extreme, but kind of more in line like that to start establishing ourselves a little bit stronger in the market and in your industry.

24:22 Oh, I agree, Nick. And if you think about it, think about movies that are launched now. Movies that are launched usually have a McDonald's or a Burger King Happy Meal around those. You've got those in common culture. They're all over social media. They don't just look at that one slice of the pie. They go after all of it. And I think that's really one of the things that we can do as content creators now. We don't have the budgets that these big Hollywood producers have, but put yourself in other audiences. Go on LinkedIn, go on YouTube, Go on Reels, go on Instagram and push, even if it's little pieces of content, those things that you really stand for. Now I want to move on to the fourth clip. And at this point, you're probably thinking, wow, this Mcgruff stuff is pretty revolutionary. Puppets and stories and impact, except for it wasn't new. Just like your content doesn't have to be revolutionary either. And Nick, this goes alongside of what you just said. You don't have to have revolutionary viral moments every day.

25:18 So let's get right to clip #4. McGrath Smart Kids album, which we played at the top of this episode, was released in 1986, but its origins stretch back to November of 1969, when a new kind of kids television program premiered on PBS. An educational 1 Sesame Street reimagined what children's TV could be and what it could do, and it also made puppets like Oscar the Grouch, Bert and Ernie and Kermit the Frog seem like a hip and effective way to reach kids. We saw what Jim Henson was doing.

26:00 We thought, well, let's just design some puppets for churches. That's kind of how the company began. I thought this was really an interesting clip that Jonathan picked, because when I started to hear that sound, that song, I knew exactly where that was going. I went back to my early days as a young guy and thought, yeah, that was Sesame Street. And I could picture Oscar the Grouch with that trash can that he lived in, and I think it was Snuffleupagus, the big old. I don't know whether it was an elephant or whatever that was, but that theater, the mind just took off. And at first glance, we think puppets and albums origin inspiration and it feels like trivia, but it's actually showing something here. And that's that playbook already existed. Like they said, going back to 1969, the people who were doing this Mcgruff Crime Dog thing already knew that things like puppets build trust.

26:51 I'm a church guy. Our church sometimes has people that travel and do puppet shows. I never really understood it until I listened to this episode and I was like, oh, that's a really good point. Those puppets do build trust. Those puppets lower resistance and the puppets make messaging feel safer. And the truth is, at this point, Mcgruff is just a new version of an old strategy. And none of this was accidental. This was a proven format, those puppets they borrowed from culture, and they reapplied it to a new message. And the influence leaves clues here. Think about this. How many content creators think I just need to be more creative? I think, Nick, you've kind of already said that. How many times have you thought, well, I just need to be more creative? I'm just looking for that viral moment, but maybe the answer here is go back and look at proven formats that work. Go look at what's going on with culture and reapply that to a new message for your content.

27:46 I'll give you an example of that. One of the things that I do, I use a product called Vid IQ. And one of the things that as I'm developing a weekly, I do a weekly sermon series. One of the things that I do on my weekly sermon thing is I go into Vid IQ and I look at what is resonating right now, What are the topics that people are talking about? And I try to think about, OK, how can I put those in something that makes sense for my content? How can I quote, spin that to make sure it's going to work for me? And at this point, this isn't about Mcgruff. It's about something becoming familiar enough that we stop questioning it. And once something becomes feels familiar, it starts to feel true. So as we come right now, that nostalgia got you in. The impact proved at work that saturation, we saw it all around us made it unavoidable.

28:36 And that system made it intentional. And that familiarity with it created belief. So that's what this thing really did. The goal isn't to be impressive once. It's to be recognizable over and over again until people trust you. And I see Dave Campbell put here in the comments that in November 1969, that's when I was born. Sesame Street is as old as me. Yeah, it's Dave. I was born in 72. I didn't realize it was actually back to 69. So that is a really good point. But no, I think that the takeaways for me in this was it was an effective way to use nostalgia. Now, I'm going to be very honest with the audience. Jonathan sent over a fifth clip, but he did not send me any notes on this. But I really feel like this was a really good episode. I think that there's.

29:24 So anyway, what I was getting at, I feel like I'm rambling on and I apologize, but I want to play this 5th clip. And to be honest with you, I don't know what the 5th clip is, but we're going to play it and we're going to talk about it once we hear it. Maybe they could repackage a crime prevention puppet show and sell it to the crime prevention dog. What about this Mcgruff character that's a natural fit? Let's talk to them. Them was the National Crime Prevention Council, the nonprofit that houses Mcgruff but still worked with the Department of Justice and the Ad Council. The first thing they successfully pitched was a life-size Mcgruff puppet that Mike built. The puppet would be able to sit up in a police car on the passenger side, so you know they would have these Mcgruff puppets riding around in these cop cars. Then they started making some full mascot suits for law enforcement.

30:15 We came up with some animatronics in it where the the eyes would blink, the mouth would open and close by electronically. Finally, they got permission to record some songs in the voice of Mcgruff. So that was our fifth clip and I can see why. Like I said, I don't have notes for this one, so I apologize ahead of time. But I really like what this did though. And I remember listening to this over the weekend. I was any of you don't know, I'm a tax guy. So we are up against this tax deadline on Wednesday. So my weekend was pretty well stuck to doing tax returns for all the people that have got me their stuff right at the last minute. So that was my time spending, but I really appreciated this because it made me think about how did this all come about?

30:59 And it like, like Jonathan said in his notes, it's one thing to trigger nostalgia, it's another thing to get underneath of that and understand what this brought about. How did this work? And when I understood that, it really tied me in because now I'm invested even more. I want to listen to the end of this. I want to hear how this ends up. And I think that is a huge take away that all of us can get as we're building content, if we can figure out a way to keep people engaged. You know, we've talked about that on the podcasting morning show many times. We've talked about, yeah, downloads are great, but it's that retention. And I think that the thing that I've seen week after week as we've talked about these obsession worthy podcast is this keeps you in the listening. It keeps you in that retention.

31:47 And if that is the goal, and I truly think, you know, I might get on a tangent here for a second, get on my soapbox. It's one thing to get downloads, but to me, downloads really don't get you anywhere. It's that retention. And I think the things that this one does is it makes you want to stay engaged because you want to hear what peace and nostalgia is going to come next or you want to hear how they unwind that onion or how they make this work. Does anybody else have any thoughts or ways that they've seen to really build that retention? Because again, I think all of the things we talk about with Obsession Worthy are all about building retention. I'll open up the room. How often do you look at that retention percentage and what have you found that really works for that? I'll jump in.

32:31 I think retention is hard, right? You have to look at the topics and what's topics are resonating and try to dissect the content and why did they listen to 100% of this and only 80% of that one, right? But as I think about, you know, the consistency of doing things and how can you bring people back to your show because that's also a bit of retention, the returning people that are coming back. I think I mentioned this the other day, the number of people that are following versus the number of people that are actually listening. Like I have a segment in my show called the CEO chat and every so often I have ACEO come on and I title it CEO chat with so and so. And those get a lot of that's one of my most popular. And I think it's because I'm interviewing CE OS. I'm clearly calling it out as, hey, this is ACEO chat and you're going to hear the insights of how they're building a business and what they're doing from their perspective. Because I think a lot of times people view CE OS as untouchable.

33:30 And so for me, it's a way to humanize them, I guess. So I think consistency like that will help to bring people back and turn them into followers, not just listeners. No, I think that's a brilliant observation, Sid. Now you mentioned something I'm going to push a little bit on this O, when you look at your retention, Sid, what do you look at specifically? What are the things that you're looking at? Well, the. First thing you look at is the percentage of how much they consumed, right? And like I had a episode that was 100% the other day. I know exactly why that particular episode was 100% was because of the person. That person is, let's call them in our industry, somewhat famous. And so people listened all the way through to that episode. But then I have another one and they listened to like 60%. So the goal is to go figure out when did they drop off and why did they drop off?

34:18 Was the episode too long? Was it just too informative? Or was it not transformative but more informative, Right. And then try to figure out how, if I can do something, if I'm going to do something on that topic again, how do I change the content around it so that they consume? More of it. But I'm initially looking at the number. No, I think that's a great point. And Dave put something into comments I want to read out loud here because I think this is a brilliant idea. And Dave Campbell put, I put a secret bonus tip at the end of my podcast episodes that is only for people who know it's there, like a hidden track on an album or a bonus movie clip during the end credits. And Dave, I think that is a really, really cool idea because those are the people that are hanging in.

35:02 Those are your true fans. I would be interested in knowing if anybody else has tried that. I may even try that out. Dave, that is a really great idea. Did anybody else want to comment? If not, I think we're going to cut it short today because there's no reason to belabor this. I think this was a very good episode we talked about. I think it did a great job of using nostalgia. All right. Well, I just want to thank everybody for joining me today. Don't forget that you can win my duo and an hour of consulting by going to podcastingmorningchat.com/duo and you still got time. The cool thing is this, once you go there, we're using, I think it's some kind of apps, Sumo King or Giveaway King or something. And I apologize they don't remember the name of it, but use that because you can enter that every single day and get more chances to win.

35:46 But we will see you again tomorrow on the podcasting morning show. So have a great day everybody and enjoy your podcasting journey. I appreciate you being here today. Thanks a lot.