492. Apple Podcasts HLS Video: What Creators Need to Know

0:05 Good morning podcasting Morning Chat. Today is Thursday, April 9th, 2026 and today Apple Podcasts goes HLS video and we're figuring this out together. Does this actually change anything for audio first creators, or is it too early to rethink your workflow? So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, bottom left hand side of the screen, top right hand side of the screen and share it. However, Clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, etcetera, please share this with a fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here. The Podcasting Morning Chat is powered by Ironic Media, helping podcasters launch, Polish and grow great shows, and by Content Creators Accountant, helping creators build real business behind their content.

1:21 Good morning again Podcasting Morning Chat, Thank you so much for being here. I am your host Mark Ronik and currently on stage with me. My Co hosts we have Nick Naulback, Dr. Fay, Ralph Estep, Alex Baelish and Sid Meadows. Go check out their profiles, learn more about them at Podcasting Morning chat.com/people. And before we dig into this whole Apple video talk, which I know we've done before, we've announced it, we've shared which hosting platforms are going to start working with Apple's new HLS video delivery system. And now I want to learn more about what we're going to do about it, if anything at all.

2:06 And maybe also dig in, well, not maybe we will also dig into how it works, or at least how we understand that it works right 'cause I don't think a lot of us, at least here, have actually started using it yet 'cause it hasn't fully rolled out to all of the whole hosting platforms yet. But before we dig into that, I want to remind you that we might be able to help you out. Are you upping your podcast equipment game? Then listen up because you could win Ralph E Steps Roadcaster Duo plus a free monetization strategy session with Ralph designed to help you make smarter moves on your show. And as I've shared before, I love the duo. I think it's a great piece of gear because it helps you sound more polished.

2:55 It works really well with multiple audio sources. So if you have, for example, an XLR microphone or USB, you can plug it right into that. And as a matter of fact, you can do more than one microphone in this case. And it also gives you hands on control over your live production all in with its all in I'll just say for today, it's a very valuable conversation with Ralph. Well, he'll really dig in with you about you, your podcast, and find you some opportunities to maybe monetize and of course, maybe save you money as well.

3:45 So go to podcastingmorningchat.com/duo to get your free entries and you can do that right now until a week from this Friday. Some more to come on that. We've definitely been getting entries, so hurry up and get yours In lots of ways. You can get additional entries with this giveaway. All right, so like I said today, we're getting into something that I think a lot of us have been circling around for a while, and I want to be upfront that I don't have all the answers here. This is still really new. That's actually why I wanted to bring it to this room today. So yeah, Apple Podcast is now supporting HLS video. What that means practically is that on compatible devices, listeners will get their audio from the HLS stream rather than the MP3 file that's on currently, most likely your RSS feed.

4:48 And what that means practically also is that when you upload your video to your hosting platform, this is the way I understand it, the audio Apple Podcast delivers to listeners is pulled from that same video file. So your video and audio are no longer separate decisions. For those of you who maybe do both the audio and video, they're now one. Now, if you're audio only, I want you to hear this clearly. Nothing changes for you. RSS still handles everything. Your workflow stays exactly the same. The only this only becomes a conversation once video is part of what you do.

5:36 But for those of us who are doing both in some way, shape or form, or thinking about doing both, this is worth slowing down on. And I'll share where I'm at with all this in a minute. But before I do, I want to get a quick sense of where everyone in the room is coming from. I'll pause here because I see Dr. is raising her hand. I just want to see Dr. Did you have anything you want to add or ask so far? Yeah. So just to understand it for myself. So right now I have clients that are on YouTube. Does this change? And I mean what is it going to be now on two different video platforms or?

6:24 Yeah, I'm so confused. Well, I mean, think of this similarly to how Spotify works, right? So Spotify allows video. And to answer your question directly, yeah, it's you're managing 2 uploads at that point, or three if you're already on Spotify in addition to YouTube. So yeah, it that it wouldn't, it's not going to push the video from Apple to YouTube. It'll push the audio, I believe. Yes. Nick, did you want to say something? That was going to be my question, Like you're getting the video on Apple. Does that mean that that video is then going to show up on Spotify if you have linked Spotify? Or is this move exactly what Spotify did, where you have the ability to upload video and that video only lives on Apple and they just took it a step further by allowing the audio to still push elsewhere?

7:22 Right. Yeah, Yep. It's all separate. And yeah, Spotify has its own upload system, its own delivery system. When it comes to video, it is not HLS because that's an Apple thing specifically. Ralph, did you? Oh, let me just go to Ralph real quick. Ralph, did you want to add something? Yeah. I just want to. Good morning, everybody. By the way, I just want to lean into the conversation just a second here. What you have to understand is the hosting platforms are going to be making a modification to allow for this. So what is going to effectively happen is these HLS files are going to be created at the host level. So to answer Nick's question, what could happen is it might open the door for other video feeds from the host perspective because the host is having to build an infrastructure to allow for this. Now, right now, Apple is giving them a specific API that only Apple is using.

8:20 But if I had a crystal ball, I would say the hosts are going to be investing in this. It may open the door to push this video to other platforms. I just want to throw that out there, Mark, because they're going to be spending money to build this new hosting arrangement piece. I think it's going to open up some doors and it could, and I have no knowledge about this at all. It could be a situation where the hosting platforms could at some point push that video to YouTube, which could save us a lot of time. Now that's something that Ralph just conjectured up in his mind based on the hosting platform changes. Thank you, Ralph. Appreciate that. Now, Dr. Did you want to ask something else? Yeah, I mean, we have to take into consideration the people who have gone ahead and put their video on Spotify. I have not heard yet someone say, oh man, you should see the numbers that I'm getting on Spotify video. It's fantastic.

9:16 I've not heard that. What I've heard is Oh my God. I mean it's like nothing. I shouldn't have even bothered is what I'm hearing that's happening. I. Feel that way specifically on Spotify and this is because this is really the only video I upload right now. I upload shorts on occasion and attach, you know, those shorts to the episode it's associated with. And I look it, it does show you like number of views, number of impressions. And I go and look every so often. I have no views, no impressions on almost all of them, except for, of course, our infamous episode where we talk about Steve Burns from Blues Clues starting a podcast.

9:59 That one got like maybe 200 impressions and of course that episode got way more actual listens and is still to this day our top episode. But it's not, it doesn't seem to push it out, at least not for me. And you're hearing? From others, I was about to say I don't even see any advertisement that Spotify has this feature. They're not building anything around it saying hey look at me, hey do this. I haven't seen anything like that do. You well, they they have stuff that they push out to creators about the features. Like I've definitely see that's how I even knew about it, what I've been doing, but it's not, I don't think, doing a good job. But really promoting.

10:44 It to the consumer, yeah. Exactly right. I have not seen a lot of that. And I think people still to this day that I know actively listen to podcasts. There are times where they get surprised. Like they're like, oh, wait, this actually has video, too. They just accidentally stumble on that. It's a video version as well as the audio. Yeah. Right, right. So I just wanted to put my $0.05 in on that. Thank you. Appreciate that. I'll take that $0.05. And Alex, you wanted to chime in, go for it. It's because nobody cares. It's like Android, who cares? Nobody cares about Spotify video because they haven't put the money into it. Because what Nick said in the chat, YouTube is the noun and a verb and whatever else. It's like Google.

11:27 It's a noun and a verb. People will go on their video to go. If they're going to search something, they're going to go to YouTube. Until Spotify wants to really get into the game and make it, you know, more attractive, it's a waste. And you're right, Dr. you're absolutely right. It is a waste of time. Now, if you have the video and you want to post it up there, go ahead. But until Spotify makes it a thing, I don't know how they can do that. It's not. You get what you get, and I don't think you're getting much for it. So, you know, I mean, it's like all these things, until it becomes the thing, people aren't going to gravitate towards it. And that's the bottom line to me. It's not that the platform is bad, just people aren't gravitating towards it yet, that's all. OK, Yeah.

12:15 That's all I. Appreciate that. I saw Nick was agreeing with you here on stage as well. And yeah, so I think you're making some good points here, Alex. And I think that right now Apple is making it all the rage, right? Like the a lot of people know that video is coming to Apple podcast now way more I would say just from my observations way more than Spotify like I think. People, but I think, I think, I think, you know, Apple has a unique situation and they just force stuff on the consumer and we just have to accept it. I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing. It's just it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. But Spotify is a different animal. I just think it's a different animal because you don't have to use Spotify, you have to use Apple products if you're an Apple user. If you're an Apple user.

13:01 Yeah, that's what I mean. Like it's just like you're forced to like considered myself APC person. I haven't used APC in so long I don't even have to use it compared to an apple. Yeah, same here. And it drives me nuts because I thought I was like this really, I can't do it. I just can't. So I see, I see what you're saying. I mean, but I'm along. I know TR Lau, she's back. But in this case, you know, she's absolutely right. It's like, what's the point until they until it becomes chic? All right. Let's go to Nick who wants to add something. And then Matt Bliss has joined us and would like to chime in as well. Go ahead, Nick. So I know we haven't gotten that deep into the conversation of what it all entails, but I'm very much in agreement with Alex on a lot of this. And the reason I am like, yes, Apple can push the platform, they can market it, they can promote it. But you're talking about breaking the habit of users who have been trained to use platforms and apps a specific way for so many years.

13:58 And I think that is the ultimate challenge. And also why Spotify hasn't pushed really hard because you're talking about like literally changing how people use your app that have always used it that way. From the positive side, what I do like about this is that the hosts are getting involved. And that means that we could evolve to a point like what Ralph was saying where the host could then potentially push that video out to other platforms, which I think has been needed for a long time apparently in the YouTube side by. Host Nick means hosting platforms like Buzz, Brow, Libson, Captivate, etcetera, correct? So I'm glad it's kind of forcing their hand a little bit to get involved with it. But I'm very much in agreement. Like no matter how often Apple pushes podcasts or video podcasts or whatever, I think how people are actually using the app, they're opening podcast, Apple Podcasts or Spotify, they're clicking on the podcast episode and then they're putting their phone in their pocket. They're not sitting down for an hour long session on Apple Podcasts, at least not right now. Thank you, Nick.

14:58 Yeah, appreciate that. And I want to keep it moving. I'm going to go to Matt and then I see Nikki has asked to chime in as well. We'll go to you in a moment. Nikki. Go ahead, Matt. Good morning. Good morning, everybody. I think the core sentiment of what people are talking about here is something that I've I'm still developing as an idea that I have a big problem with in podcasting. And it's the the promise of all of these new innovations in the podcast space and what they actually mean. The perfect example of this is someone saying that you should definitely register for Opus AI. It's a great platform. It enables you to take your podcast episode and very quickly and easily create 15 reels that you can put on all of your platforms and you get them very quickly for low effort and for a monthly cost. But then if you follow up with the question, OK, this is great, I love fast output.

15:56 What does this mean for my podcast? Like what's the impact going to be? That's when there starts to be question Marks and theories and people aren't entirely sure. A lot of the podcast innovations at the moment are very top heavy in that the promise is huge, but the actual outcome isn't clear. When there is an innovation that has the opportunity for better outcomes for podcasters, they just cannot be clear about it. Where I think Apple is a little bit different here is that they've shown their hand with there being a big incentive for them to provide it with the dynamic ad insertion, where a little bit of money goes back to them when you insert ads on the platform. But maybe we'll get there eventually.

16:36 But yeah, I agree with everyone here. Yeah, thank you, Matt. Appreciate that. And Billy, I see in the chat has written if you're a podcaster only thinking about your podcast, then you're making a mistake. It's about building a brand. So my first thing is to that absolutely 100% agree with Billy. My second thing is why are we making that point? In other words, are we saying something otherwise here about that? Yeah, Matt, go ahead. Yeah, I hear what he's saying, but I think about it a little bit differently. I think that the distance between the listener and the podcaster is getting bigger and bigger to where the longer we think about as a podcaster making a podcast and the things that podcasters do less and less of that is starting is more commonly translated into wisdom that allows us to build an audience and get listeners. I called Billy out so and called them out is not really the best phrase, but I referenced something he shared and he's on stage now.

17:33 So let's give Billy a chance to chime in here. And I do want to keep the conversation moving too. I know others want to chime in. I'll do my best here. But we got to also keep the conversation moving. Go for it, Billy. Well real quick Mark, I think this is the problem with chat and responding when people are talking. The part I responded to was way after it showed up. My text showed up way after, but I, I was thinking about the Opus clip thing and like, you know, doing clips, putting your stuff out there. I was just thinking like, oh, this is a brand building strategy, not just how's that going to turn people back to my podcast. So that was the only thing I was thinking about in that one sentence.

18:13 I was commenting on an overall conversation. Got it. Cool. All right. Thank you, Billy. Appreciate the clarification. Janae, hold off one second because I did promise Nikki first. So Nikki, what did you want to add? Good morning. Good morning. Yes, I was just going to say that there's definitely something for getting in on the ground floor early of something. Whenever you can get in earlier, the better you are typically because you can really set up a great ecosystem for what you want to do. And I think that it establishes some level of credibility with your audience when they see something that's already, it's already there. It's not just being built, but it's already there and that just signals to them, hey, this person is a legitimate person. They've been creating content. Let me go consume it and all of that. And then the other thing I was going to say is that for most of us, probably don't make our podcast for a Gen. Z and a Gen.

19:03 Alpha audience because they're quite young. But in terms of Gen. ZI think that this feature, because a lot of my students, they do have Apple podcast and so I think it meets them sort of where they are. And this these two generations are definitely not an audio first generation. All of us in here, we listened to radio. We had all these different things. We weren't video first, but they definitely are because they grew up on TikTok and YouTube and all of that. And so it's possible that if the podcast that we're doing could appeal to that generation, I could see Billy's appearing appealing to that group of people as well, because they already want to be influencers and things. The the video feature is great for them because now it's going to it's sort of lowers the barrier to entry for them. And they're all about the ease of access. So for them, I think this could be a really good thing to establish that connection.

19:58 And plus Gen. Zers and Gen. alphas, they want to see you, they want to see you. So it the way that they kind of established trust and build trust with someone is seeing them on the video because they feel like they know you, you know, So anyway, I just wanted to add that to the conversation. Thank you. Nikki agreed. And I see Ralph is nodding emphatically after your share there. Ralph, did you just do you want to chime in on that at all? Yeah, I just want to say I agree with Nikki 100%. I think there is a trust level when you see somebody. I think that audio has its place, don't misunderstand me, but I think there is a place where you can put a face with the sound and I think there's the value in video.

20:40 Thank you, Ralph and Janae. Give me your one to two-minute response here if you don't mind. Hey, good morning everyone. So this is a great topic because we're all, you know, it's thinking from the podcast video shift perspective that Apple stepping into. But take a look at the broader picture. What's been going on in the podcast industry. Spotify, right, they're picking up, Netflix picking up. So what is Apple doing with an introducing video to their podcast platform now if any of you use Apple TV? Just recently with their latest update, they said all of your purchase from iTunes Music and iTunes TV shows, and actually iTunes TV's show and iTunes movies will now be available in the Apple TV app.

21:29 A ton of people are using the Apple TV app or Apple TV to watch their Youtubes, their TV shows and whatnot, Netflix, etcetera. With this shift that Apple is preparing to do, and you can just look in the future, Apple is going to be bringing podcasts to their TV app. You just watch that and that's what they're doing. They're setting up this transition so that all the hosts are in line, all the host providers are in line, everything is in line. So that when they make that big shift of bringing every single podcast to their TV platform, it's going to be a game changer. So that's my take on it. Oh, yeah, for sure. If they, you know, if what they're doing in podcasting spills into all of their ecosystem, that that could be huge.

22:15 I'm totally with you there, Janae. All right, Alex. No, I no invaded me. Go ahead. No, Nick. Nick was ahead. All right. Thank you. Go ahead, Nick. I had put it in the chat and it was kind of off of what Nikki was saying. I think the the question then becomes, or what a lot of people are probably thinking after hearing this announcement, is I don't currently do video because Apple's getting involved in it. Does that mean that I need to start doing video? And yeah, I'll leave it at that. I have my own opinions at that, but I'll leave it short and sweet. Yeah, well, I mean this. Let's get into that, if that's OK. And Alex, I'm sorry, but I do want to try to switch gears here. Let's get into that for a second like because I'm curious and if everyone, if you don't mind audience Co hosts, everybody who's listening right now, put in the chat. If you are audio only, audio first or audio video. And if you have an alternative, you can throw that in too. But I want to know what what's your format? Audio only audio first or both audio and video? And Ralph is saying video first at this point, Dave's audio 1st and yes, it is audio first.

23:26 OK. We have a lot of audio or audio firsts and several that definitely have some sort of video component. So yeah, that's like what we do here, right? Like we are currently audio first. We have video which we basically lean on for live streaming and then we leave that live stream up after it's all done. So it is still exists out there, but we aren't producing video with the exception of shorts and reels. So Nick, did you want to dive into that a little bit? Like to me, I personally think if you're already doing video, why not put it on another platform like that? That's kind of my thought.

24:09 But if if you don't have video, I don't think that it has matured on podcasting platforms enough where the effort that you're going to put into producing the video because it's a lot of work just to get it on to Apple podcast as a video. I don't think the trade off is going to be equal there. So I would personally rather see people actually adopt it as a from a consumer standpoint before I think about putting in all of that effort and it's going to take to produce a video podcast and just to get it onto that platform. Yeah, I can see that. And what about if the you know that you mentioned that this podcaster like it's probably not worth the effort if they're still trying to get, and this is my wording, but trying to get their footing with their audio podcast. But what if that's kind of the the thing that they're being sold here is that if they add video, it could really help them with discoverability.

25:03 And yeah, what do you think about that, Nick? What would you say to that? I would still want to see the the actual facts. I'd want to see it all play out on the platform personally, just because I know how much effort it takes to do video and to do it well. Like you're talking, I mean, unless you have someone that's doing the editing for you and you can just say, hey, edit this video for me. I think that's one thing then I mean, knock yourself out. But we've been promised this stuff on social media. I mean, when Spotify dropped their stuff, they were kind of promoting it to creator specifically because obviously they want the content on the platform. And I like to your point, videos just aren't getting impressions. So if you had gone in on what Spotify was saying, like, hey, video is coming, video is the next wave you need to get on video, and you started developing video just for that purpose, you'd be pretty disappointed right now. Yeah.

25:57 You put all that time and effort and got zero impressions on majority of the podcast episodes. Yeah, I'm totally with you there. And I saw Bez in the chat said. But will video be quote, UN quote, compelling and worth watching if you're mainly recording for audio? Yeah, that's something I think about too. Even just doing the live stream, you know, is it compelling enough? Should I even bother leaving it up? My answer is yes. Maybe, I don't know, maybe it's not compelling enough as far as the all the strategies and tips and tricks around video podcasting. But I do my best to keep it moving. I change the video angles as we're talking here and try to keep it fresh and like I said, engaging.

26:40 But yeah, I'm with you there, Bez too. Dr. You wanted to chime in and then Alex wants to chime in. Yeah, You know, I'm really stepped up my networking game these past couple weeks. And so as a result, I'm talking to brand new podcasters or podcasters that have are like a new generation of podcasters. They've been at it for a while, but they're a new generation of podcasters. And it never ceases to amaze me of the people that, you know, when you gave your choice, are you audio first, only audio? You gave all those choices. What you didn't give is, are you only video? And that's what I'm finding as I talked to some of these newer podcasters, they are only video.

27:28 And when I meet with them, it's just so deflating. I let them know that they're cutting out a huge portion of the population. I mean, how have you ever driven down the street and watch someone do their daily walk, their mile or their run? They always have earbuds in their ears. They're listening to something. Don't cut them out. There is a huge population that likes to multitask while listening to podcasts, so if you're on video, for God's sake, get on audio. Don't cut that out of your life. Yeah.

28:08 And I mean, look, I think that just to be clear, again, for everybody who might be a little unclear about this, I mean, if you're going the video route and let's say you're taking advantage of Apple in the HLS delivery system, it is still going to deliver the audio. You can, as a listener, consume just the audio portion. So they're not necessarily alienating an audience. The ones that I'm talking to are only thinking, got it. They're not even considering that there's an audio component that is that they can do. Yeah, I got it. And that's what just makes me crazy. OK, got it. OK, that makes sense. And look, I think for me it's got to be a, it's been when I'm in those situations, it's a relatively easy conversation for me to have with that client or potential client. OK, video is your primary avenue. Great.

29:02 Awesome. And we're going to still do this as a video, as an audio thing as well. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's so many free platforms that will house your audio. I mean, if cost is an issue, don't let that stand in the way. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Dr. And. There's a problem with your theory, Dr. And I'm guilty of it. I'm not saying you're wrong because you're absolutely right, but I listen to probably 3 or 4 podcasts and I never listen to the podcast. I listen to it on YouTube and it's video only. It's well, I don't watch the video, I just listen to it and I listen to it like a normal podcast.

29:42 And the problem is for us as podcasters, if you're looking at numbers, it doesn't help downloads, views, what it'll help the views, but it's just a different way to consume it. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying I can see their point because I think. You're in the minority, Alex. I don't think I'm in the minority. Most people who pull it up on on YouTube are sitting in front of their. Computer watching, they are. I'm going to push back on that. Because I don't think, I don't think I think I'm the rule more than the exception because of one reason. There are too many people that are trying to multitask and do 57 different things.

30:23 And it's just that to me, it's like listening to the radio. I mean, we've reported when we do news, we've reported a lot of statistics that say that people who are using YouTube to consume podcasts are listening a lot more. I don't have the percentage off the top of my head, but there is a large percentage that do use YouTube the way Alex is describing. When I'm in my car and driving to the store, I have to have a podcast on. When I'm shopping at Kroger's, I have to have a podcast in my ear. I'm not on YouTube for that. Right, but a lot of people are is the point is a lot of people use it as a listening app, not a video app or they use it as both. And I get it.

31:05 I'm like you too. Like when I want to listen to a podcast, I don't think about going to YouTube first. I think about going to Apple. That's just the one that I use the most. But again, there are a lot of people out there that just go to YouTube and then they put the phone down, they drive, they put the phone down and they listen to the podcast even though it's a video playing on YouTube. That's just the way I mean this. The data is showing that. So I just want to make that clarification in DRI think there are plenty of people in our camp. I'm not saying that doesn't exist. I'm just saying there are more people than you're leading us to believe that are actually using that. All right, look, a lot of people want, I'm going to chime in. Sid, I saw you first, so I'm coming to you.

31:46 Go for it. Thanks, Mark. Good morning, everybody. It's a great conversation this morning for sure. But from my perspective in the trend report, I'm going to sit and wait and see what happens with this. I want to watch what's going on. I need to have a long talk with my editor because it sounds like the video that we edit today to put up on YouTube is not the same video that we can put up on this HLS platform. Which means more cost for me to edit the video, more work for my editor. And of course, if she has to work more, I have to pay her more, which means I need to consider the profitability of my podcast. Do I charge my sponsors more for the podcast being on the Apple video? I think there's a lot to consider. And sometimes being the first end to something new is not always the best place to be.

32:30 So, you know, I'm going to sit and watch and see what happens and listen to other people and do like you guys do and consume the news and articles about the potential impact of this and see what happens with it. So my position is I'm just going to sit and wait and watch. I respect that strategy. I know that was the same or similar to what Nick was saying as well. Yeah. I don't think that this requires any of us to rush over to Apple if we are not video first podcast. And I know that saying that term is probably pushing several people's buttons by saying video first podcast, but here we are. I think that's going. To be more of. A discussion. Go ahead. To Ralph's point in the chat and all of you experienced this, the video production for true video consumption should be done differently than a video being recorded of me interviewing somebody for an audio first podcast.

33:25 Like I don't do any of these. I mean, I'm starting to do a little bit with Ecam, but I don't do any of these switches and camera because I only have like my 1 camera. I don't have multiple cameras, right? I'm not going to throw in, you know, animals walking across the screen or whatever it is to add to the I'm not going to do all that because that's just more production time, which means more cost. And so you know, I'm not, I just, I think you have to be very mindful of this, which is why we do not have video of my podcast on Spotify. We just, we don't, we get 3% of our listens or downloads come from Spotify. So it just doesn't seem worth it to me at this time. And I'm not going to right now change my setup to become a video production in order to get a better video on Apple, if that makes sense.

34:11 Yeah, I'm just glad to know that Sid is an animal free podcast and that's really the main point, right from that. No, you're right, you're right, Sid. You do what you feel is right. That's what goes. You know, this is probably a hill I'll die on, and I've said it before. I don't think that if you're doing video 2 that you have to do 2 different versions. And I know a lot of people feel differently about that. But I believe that you can do a podcast audio 1st and it's still have a video component that's engaging and effective and vice versa. Look, we do that. We do that here. I'm not you know, we've got a video version of this podcast. It is on YouTube.

34:55 It is this live stream and we leave it there. And I think that if people are listening to the audio, they're not lost. Yeah, sure. If if the mistake happens when the podcast is displaying charts on their video and talking about the charts, right. Oh, yeah. Look over here where it says this and that or it's dipping down here. What do we think of that? Like, yeah, that feels vague. As an audio listener, it feels confusing. So yeah, you want to be careful about visual components. And if you're going to use them, you want to make it, you want to really explain them. But theater of the mind is an absolute thing, and I think a smart podcaster, an effective podcaster, knows how to do that and therefore doesn't need to have a separate video show to an audio show.

35:44 Yes, sure, if you have the money and the time to do that, to separate both and make special component video versus a special audio presentation, OK, good on you. That's awesome. But I feel like this messaging has been adopted by the quote UN quote gurus that say you have to do that it because honestly, I think it's just a money grab. I think that they want people to utilize their services so that they can make more money off of you. And that's a general statement, right? I think there are some people that just genuinely believe that, but it is it drives me crazy, no offense, Sid.

36:28 It drives me crazy when people think that they have to make 2 versions. Now that video is becoming more of a thing in the podcast world. And I know some of you disagree with me. I know because I know I saw Ralph emphatically agreeing about the two separate video. You know, video versus audio. Ralph, do you want to chime in? Yes, I do, thank you. And we can we all agree to disagree, but that's OK. My main concern though is what this is going to do. Let's just say you make the decision that you are going to put video on ALE. What you've got to understand is now ALE is going to use that video stream as your audio O. For example, my Roduction team, we do 2 separate cuts. I record the video and then they cut it for audio and they cut it for video because I am a believer that on the video side I got to get more to it quicker.

37:18 I don't have the luxury of bigger lead insurance and all that kind of things because I think the listening experience or the viewing experience in the video and audio is different. So what I really wanted to stress is this is going to change that. For somebody like me who is doing video, when I open up the floodgates here with Captivate next week and I start doing Apple video, I have to expect that the video, the audio that the people who are listening on Apple are going to hear, as I understand it, is going to come from the video file. So I think we need to be aware of that because if you're doing like I'm doing and I think there's AI guess that Mark, I think honest people can disagree about the value of that. I think we could have a discussion about maybe our audio could be better if we cut to the chase, like maybe that's a whole thing we could talk about.

38:07 But I think that you just need to be aware it's going to change things. And I think we all need to understand that. And if we've got people or we're doing it ourselves and we're doing separate cuts, you're not going to get that anymore on Apple, as I understand it currently. OK. Ralph, thank you for that. And you've said it, having an audio podcast is different from a video podcast. I believe that's what what you were saying. What? Why is it different? What makes it different other than the obvious? Well, I think the experience is different when you're listening to an audio podcast. Most people have earbuds in. It is a very intimate, in my view, connection.

38:50 A video is different. The video you're seeing it on the screen, yeah, you may still have earbuds in, but your your reaction, your senses are being used differently. I think in a video, I can be a little quicker, I can be a little louder, I can be a little bit more at a higher pace. With an audio, I think you've got to slow it down. That's why, and I'm not trying to battle with Dr. but I think there is a difference. And I think if you're recording video first, you can't just turn that on the audio and expect that that's going to work. I completely disagree with that. I think it's a completely different experience. And if you have two separate audiences, which I truly believe when I've done listener surveys, I have a video audience and I have an audio audience, and they are not the same.

39:36 And I think that in lies where the problem is, this is going to merge those because as I understand it, the way Apple is going to work, when you click on your Apple play and Apple is the biggest podcast player, let's just be honest about that. It is you're going to be given the opportunity to either select video or audio or switch back and forth. But what you need to understand is what the person is going to get is going to be your video audio feed. I know that sounds like I did a double negative there. It's going to be, as I understand it right now, they are going to strip out the audio from that video. So if you're intentionally thinking like I think and they're two separate audiences, you got to make some changes here. Does anybody here know does Diary of Aceo cut 2 versions of their podcast?

40:21 Do they make a video version and an audio? As far as I know it's the same damn thing and it is blowing up on both platforms, audio and video and I don't think he's making any changes. Go ahead, Yvonne. I'm not uploading video to Apple podcast. I can't speak to uploading to any of the podcast players like Spotify, but I am doing a video version for YouTube. And here's the thing, like, start where you are, work with what you've got. I do all my own editing. I only have one camera. I'm not producing specifically for video, except that it's changed the way I do my intros so that I'm cutting. I'm trying to get my intros really tight so that they work for a YouTube audience, and I think that probably is helping my audio version as well.

41:21 What I do differently now after some time is I've stopped using my I have an intro that I cut into all of my podcast episodes and I still use that on the audio version, but I don't use it on the YouTube version anymore because I was there was a drop off in views that I was noticing. So I just go straight from a cold Stinger open in YouTube and audio. But in YouTube I don't go to my standard intro. I go into the conversation and fade in. So they're two. It's like kind of going in between what you guys are saying. I do a little something different for the video, but it's mostly the same episode and I mostly still record with the audio audience in mind.

42:13 So if somebody has written a book and they hold up their book and they say here's my book, I'm going to either stop and say, hey, she's holding up a book right now for those of you who are listening, I'll describe it, or I'll cut that out for the audio audience. That's fair and thank you, Yvonne. And by the way, I didn't say good morning, so good morning to you. And good morning. And I'm going to kind of push back again on this because it's my opinion. Long intros don't have a place on either format. It drives me crazy. No offense, Yvonne, really, I love you a lot. But it drives me crazy when I hear podcasts with big long intros.

42:54 And it drives me crazier when I hear podcasters say, well I've got to cut the intro down for my video but not my audio. People want you to get to the point. Sorry Yvonne, I'm not directing this at you, but people want you to get to the point on audio just as much as they do on video. I appreciate that and I am thinking of losing that intro. So you know that is good feedback. I've been talking about that since before video became so popular in this podcast space. The long intros is probably the number one reason why listeners bail early. It's just it's long and drawn out and I think it sets the wrong tone to get a show started. OK, there are lots of people that still want to chime in and I'm going to do my best here to make that happen. Janae, you've been waiting patiently. Did you want to add anything?

43:49 Morning, guest. I did want to answer your question. So for for flight, for driver of the CEO, the same version that's on video podcast is also on their audio podcast. There's no difference. Right. And with the recent change, so what's funny is that I invent and advertently launched a video podcast for my client. And I was like, where's the audio feed? Where's the audio feed? And I couldn't find the MP3 because the RSS feed was serving the video files to all the platforms. I'm like, this is really interesting. So YouTube's getting the video, Spotify is getting the video, Apple Podcast getting a video. Now on the Apple Podcast app, you can hide video. And the same thing on Spotify, you can hide the video and just listen to the audio, which is like, I was like, OK, this is really cool.

44:35 With HLS coming on, I think what's going to happen is that the host will be able to send two versions, an audio and a video, because that's why they're making the host sign a deal and get the API key from the host. So then or actually getting the API key from Apple and putting it into the host. So then they have a straight path to send the video file as a separate thing. So that's a thing what's happening. We'll know more as a as more host start offering that thing. Yep. Thank you, Janine. Hey, Mark. Mark, can I just jump in there for a second? The only flaw though, Janine, is if you think about what Apple has said, they said you're going to be able to change on the fly from audio to video.

45:22 If you're listening to two separate files, that's never going to work. So I disagree with you because I think what this is going to mean is there's going to be a single audio video file. And if you have the ability to switch between the two midstream, it's going to have to be the video file where they're getting the audio from because that's. The only way it's. Going to work because you know what I'm saying, Janine. Yeah, no, I think that's what's happening is just using that one file, just turning off the video component and still playing the audio because every video has audio, right? So I totally agree that's what's actually happening. Ralph, I feel like what makes that a problem because if anything, as the creator, I'm happy about that because now I don't have to. I don't have to create 2 separate files, I don't have to upload 2 separate files.

46:08 One file is video and it turns into audio for the consumer who doesn't give a crap. Quite frankly. If it's an MP3MP4 or a GIF file, they don't care. It's Mark. It's a problem if you believe that there are two separate feelings between audio and video. I actually believe that a little bit more of an on ramp. I believe the good mornings and how's everybody doing on the audio side are actually valuable to the audio listener. I may die on that hill, but that's my opinion. OK, But I don't think there is valuable to the video listener. But it could be though already in that. But I just think there is a different experience there. And that's why I'm saying is this is going to change. If you do like I do, and you put two separate files together, that that's all I'm saying is that if yours, if your intention is for your audio file to be a little bit different than your video file, this is going to change. I think that in a lot of cases the chit chat doesn't work for whatever format.

47:05 For 1/2 I think the chit chat can work. I think it's a matter of knowing how to do it. If you're just sitting there shooting the S and you're just talking about the weather on your show when your show about how to start a business, yeah, that's nonsense. That's not going to fly very well. But if you have, if you are having a little bit of chitchat, it's somewhat on point. Or maybe it's just an update from the host about something going on in their lives. I think that works no matter what format, as long as they know how to tell a compelling story or how to have compelling chitchat. Again, I don't think it matters what the source is, whether it's video or audio.

47:46 I think this is all about the host and the content and how it's being delivered by their mouth and what their act, the words that they're actually saying. I don't disagree with you, Mark. I don't disagree with you, Mark. I just think we need to understand that if you think you're going to have two separate, you are not going to have that experience. That's all I'm saying. OK. And Matt, you wanted to chime in, go for it. I am loving this chat because this is the beginning of where I would love people to start thinking about these discussions to go. That is very vague thing to say, but I'm going to clarify it a little bit what the current argument is at the moment. But where you come from different sides is what we often have a problem as podcasters is that trying to create a collective golden rule about a single subject that covers every specific podcast, podcasters and listeners experience.

48:41 Those rules are going to be changing over time, like this discussion about whether it's worth doing audio only anymore or just constructing your audio in the video and having that be the primary source for everything. That's going to be a really interesting one that comes up. These are the things that listeners don't really worry about. We worry about them as podcasters. I think most of what happens when we get into these discussions is that we want to advocate for our listeners or our viewers as strongly as possible with the content that we want to make. But I want people to think about the listener, their listener behavior, the people that engage with their content and be informed with people who are similar to them. I think that's the biggest part. Thank you, Matt.

49:23 Thank you for basically wrapping up the show today. I mean that is a great way to kind of bring this all together and I appreciate that. I will call out Bez, who shared in the chat. He was agreeing with me earlier that, yeah, the audience doesn't really care. He agrees with that. He goes on to say, but owning your content and the value of the RSS feed is important. I think that's the whole premise from Adam Curry. Do you own your content? And he goes on to say, Bez does because if I'm the creator, I have to make decisions on the choices in front of me. Yes, data and trends are important, but how does that integrate to your strategy and values and ability to produce to the smorgasbord?

50:04 And then he says, this is a great discussion. Bez, thank you for chiming in there. I hear you. That makes sense. And Matt, thank you. I heard you and that makes sense as well. Great, great discussion today, gang. It went in a couple of different directions. I didn't even know it would, and this was a really lively conversation. And just to be clear, no hard feelings with Ralph. It's all good. It's we're allowed to have differences of opinions here and I think that's what make this makes this show go round. We still love each other and I'm still. And just everybody knows on the video I'm still smiling. So we're all good over here. Everybody is good, all good, and Ralph is smiling even with all the tech difficulties he's had behind the scenes.

50:47 If you've been watching the video today, thank you all for a great discussion. We are back tomorrow, 7:00 AM Eastern Time. And you know what we do on Fridays? Yes, we celebrate our wins from the week and we make it more of a community focused discussion. This is our time to get to really get to know each other even more. So come join us. Of course, we talk all things podcasting when we do that. So come join us tomorrow live, 7:00 AM Eastern Time. And if you want to learn how, go to podcastingmorningchat.com/join us. And until tomorrow, make it a great day. Everybody take care.