490. Why Your Podcast Isn’t Growing

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Good morning Podcasting Morning
Chat.

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Today is Tuesday, April 7th,
2026.

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And today, Audience growth, why
it matters when it matters, and

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the honest conversation every
podcaster needs when a show

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feels stuck and you're not sure
what to fix first.

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So if you're listening live on
Clubhouse, hit the share button,

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bottom left hand side of the
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However, Clubhouse lets you.
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And now give us about 30 seconds

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and we'll get things rolling.
Thanks for being here.

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Podcasting Morning Chat is
powered by Ironic Media, helping

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grow great shows, and by content

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behind their content.
Good morning again podcasting

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morning chat.
Thank you so much for being

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here.
I am your host Mark Ronik and

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currently on stage with me my Co
hosts we have Dr. Fay, Ralph

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Estep, Jonathan Howard, Alex
Baelish, Nick Nalback, Sid

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Meadows and BC Babbles.
Thank you all for being here

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today.
And if you want to learn more

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about those fine people, just go
to

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podcastingmorningchat.com/people.
And yeah, while you're at

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podcastingmorningchat.com, if a
road caster duo is on your

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podcast gear list, pay
attention.

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You could win Ralph E steps
lightly used duo not about nine

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months old.
Plus a free monetization

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strategy session to help you
make smarter moves with your

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show.
What I personally love about the

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Duo is that it helps you sound
great.

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It handles a real podcast
workflow with multiple audio

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sources, and it gives you live
production control for things

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like intros, music, sound
effects all in one box.

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Plus it's smaller, lightweight.
Because of that, it makes that

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on the go recording actually
possible.

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It's certainly not something you
can put in your pocket, but it

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is something lightweight, small
enough that you could probably

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put in your luggage, for
example.

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And Ralph, I want to take just a
quick moment.

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Do you want to share about the
free strategy session that

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you're thrown in there?
Absolutely.

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Good morning, everybody.
So yes, I'm going to throw in a

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free strategy session where I'll
sit down with you.

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We'll do a Zoom call.
I'll look at your current

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content, we'll look at systems,
we'll look at monetization

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strategy.
So all of that, you get to pick

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my brain for an hour.
So make sure you go check that

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out.
Yeah, check it out at Podcasting

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Morning chat.com/duo DUO.
You can enter to win and there

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are multiple options, multiple
ways that you can enter to win.

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So it's not just sign in and
boom, you're in.

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That's one entry, but there are
lots of different ways you can

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get more entries, increase your
odds of winning Ralph's Duo and

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that monetization session.
So check that out.

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Again, Podcasting Morning
chat.com/duo for the four

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details.
All right, so today's topic,

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let's dive right in.
It is inspired by a new

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consulting client that I've met
with now a couple of times,

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including yesterday.
And their main goal is audience

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growth.
They're not focused on bringing

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in clients for the podcast right
now.

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That's not their strategy.
It's not to get.

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And I'll just give you a little
background.

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They are marriage consultants
and they talk all about making

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your marriage better on their
podcast.

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They said they're not doing this
to try to get new clients for

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their therapy sessions, for lack
of better term.

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They're not in it for the money.
They've told me straight up, you

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know, we're doing fine with
money.

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This is not a cash grab.
This podcast, even making their

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money back right now as far as
what they put into the podcast

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isn't a top priority for them.
What they keep telling me that

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matters the most is reaching as
many people as possible.

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So this client has been in it
for about two years.

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They've built an audience, but
not at the level that they had

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hoped.
And actually, lately they've

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seen some decline, which is why
they brought me in the 1st

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place.
I'll admit that this topic has

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challenged me a little bit
because I often say, and many of

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us say here on the podcast
Morning Chat, that podcasting

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isn't all about big numbers.
And I think that's true in a lot

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of cases, but a small audience,
because I should say, a small

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audience can absolutely lead to
big opportunities.

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But it would also be silly to
pretend audience growth doesn't

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matter.
It can matter a lot, especially

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if your goal is more reach, more
impact, maybe more momentum,

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more opportunities, or a
stronger community around what

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you're building.
So today I want to unpack that a

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bit.
Why does audience growth matter?

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When does it matter?
And if your podcast audience

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isn't growing, why?
What may actually be getting in

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the way?
So I'm going to start here.

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When podcasters talk about
growth, what do you think they

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usually mean when they say they
want to grow?

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DRI saw you raised your pepper.
Go for it.

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So a question implies that it's
all about downloads, and I think

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that.
Is, Miss Lee, what if you had an

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episode that just sparked A
tremendous amount of energy,

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maybe someone commented and that
caused someone else to comment

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and now they're debating back
and forth and it there's just

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like a spark just about an
episode that you did that is as

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important as, you know, 10 more
downloads.

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Yeah, yeah, thank you.
DRI saw some other people.

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Let's get a bunch of opinions
here.

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And I think BC were you one of
the people that yeah, you were.

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So when podcasters talk about
growth, what do you think they

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usually mean?
BCI.

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Think a lot of times, and this
is where we have to as

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consultants step in and really
kind of quote UN quote reality

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check them is I think a lot of
assumptions about growth is

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making money and making so much
money within an unreasonable

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expected time frame.
Then you can like depart from a

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full time job and just be a
podcaster.

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So and I think that's when we
have to step in and be like,

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let's look at how this works.
Let's look at the magnitude that

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is the size of podcasting and
how monetization actually in

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theory works and what kind of
actual time frame you should put

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down as a reasonable expectation
before you see any kind of

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monetizable opportunities come
your way.

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So I would just put that in this
to say, sometimes the growth is

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very understandable, community
growth, that's great.

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But also we have the not so
great assumptions about growth

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that have to be checked and then
kind of redirected into reality.

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Yeah, yeah, I hear that BC and
again, keeping it moving.

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Nick, I saw you put something in
the comments and then we'll

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check in with Ralph.
But Nick, did you want to share?

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Yeah.
Hey, good morning everybody.

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Good morning.
I just said in the chats, I

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think like growth, when they say
growth, they want more

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listeners.
But to DRS point, a lot of times

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that in the podcasters mind
means more downloads equals more

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listeners.
And that's like the main metric

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that is analyzed.
So if they're not seeing more

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downloads and they're assuming
they're not getting more

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listeners, or even if they are
getting more downloads, they're

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assuming that they're getting
more listeners.

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And that may not always be the
case.

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Yep, Yep.
Fair enough.

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And Ralph, do you want to chime
in as well?

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I do and you would expect me to
say something about money here,

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but I'm not.
I actually think that growth

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could be defined in what your
why is from the beginning of why

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you started doing this.
I will tell you personally,

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growth for me was growth of
influence, growth of getting on

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stages, growth of doing other
things because of my podcast.

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So the idea of growing numbers,
yeah, sure, that's part of the

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growth thing.
But I think a lot of people miss

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an opportunity because it could
be personal development, it

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could be growth as the ability
to speak.

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So I think you really have to
narrow down what is your why and

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then define what that looks like
to where you find success

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because that could be the
defined matrix of what you're

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trying to go with.
I know for me, at first I got so

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caught up in the downloads, man,
I was checking that like 5-6,

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seven times a day, and that will
drive you crazy if you keep

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doing that.
But then all of a sudden I

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started to notice people were
mentioning my name, people were

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putting me in different
locations.

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I was seeing myself all around.
And to me, that is really the

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definition of growth that is
outside the whole normal

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monetization bubble.
Thank you, Ralph.

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And clearly a, an important area
to focus on when you're thinking

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about growth isn't understanding
that your purpose, your why

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behind the podcast.
And I think maybe I could have

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done a better job rephrasing
that question because I, I think

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where it's coming from from me
is the idea that a lot of

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people, a lot of podcasters say
they want to grow, but I don't

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think they, they have that
connection to their why a lot of

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times.
Or maybe they know their why,

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but they've kind of lost sight
of it.

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And they just say, I want to
grow.

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I want to grow.
And I want to understand what

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that really means to them in
those instances too, if that

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makes any sense.
I think that makes sense, Mark,

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because I think that's the
struggle.

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I think there's a disconnect of
like, what does growth look

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like?
And I know maybe I'm rephrasing

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your question, but I think
that's the struggle because I

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think you need to define what
that looks like at the front end

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'cause I think a lot of content
creators don't define what that

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looks like.
Yeah.

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Thank you, Ralph.
Appreciate that.

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And I know Alex, you want to
chime in, let me just go to

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Billy real quick since he's
joining us from the audience and

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came up while Ralph was sharing.
So I'm curious, Billy, good

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morning to you.
Did you want to chime in on what

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Ralph is talking about or just
chime in general?

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Yeah.
I mean, I think it's kind of

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maybe like a general thing here,
but and I think I started when I

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started podcasting, it was all
about the numbers, the

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downloads, the views.
And then I realized like, who

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cares if I get a million people
watching my content or listening

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to my content for five seconds?
And that's when I really started

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paying attention to the
longevity of the viewer or well,

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my case, it was viewer, but
then, you know, listener as

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well.
And then that's when I really

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started to because it's
attention that we all want, but

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it's like depth of the attention
is the real value.

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And I think what we do is
content creators.

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And so that's what I started to
kind of pivot to is like, OK, I

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don't care if I only have 100
people listening to my episode.

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I just want 100 people listening
to 85% of my episode because I

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know I'm building a real deep
connection with those 100

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people.
And then when I can create fans

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out of 100 people, then I can go
to them with the ask of, hey, I

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know you know one other person
who you can tell them about my

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show, my podcasts, whatever.
And then we can go from there

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and start to really grow the
downloads and grow the

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community.
Yeah.

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Thank you, Billy.
Appreciate that.

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And yeah, I think that's the
whole guerrilla marketing

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approach at that one that I am a
firm believer in as far as,

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yeah, knowing who your diehards
are, knowing who those regulars

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are that show up and connecting
with them, asking them for help.

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You know, here's a great
example.

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And I'm not proud of this moment
because this happened to me just

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recently last week when we
launched our first Empowered

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Podcasting Live series.
The whole thing was we didn't

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really do a great job of
promoting it leading up to it.

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And on that day, I was sitting
there thinking, oh man, what?

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What have we done?
We've screwed up here,

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especially as professional
podcasters.

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It's like, shouldn't we have
planned this a little bit

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better, a little more smart?
And what I ended up doing was

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reaching out to, I can't even
tell you how many people that I

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know that regularly listen and
or support the things that I do.

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And I reached out to them, I
gave them a link.

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It's had to be have been at
least a couple of dozen of

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people, maybe more.
And so many of them responded,

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so many of them showed up.
We had a better turn out than I

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expected.
And you know, when you do have,

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even if it is a quote UN quote
smaller audience, those people

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will also help you promote like
Billy was talking about.

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00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:58,840
And that's what happened.
I didn't even ask a lot of those

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00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,960
people, but they went ahead and
started promoting the show

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00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,840
anyway.
And we had a great turn out

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00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,880
because of it.
So I that definitely works.

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I'm with you there.
I see that Jessica in the chat

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00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,120
was agreeing.
I think this was while Ralph was

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00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,240
sharing.
She said, oh, I agree.

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00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,840
True exponential growth begins
with one change, one life and

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00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,080
you after the trajectory of
generations.

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00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,080
Sorry about that.
I butchered that Jessica, but

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00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,480
thank you for your response
here.

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00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:35,640
OK, so there could be lots of
reasons why people talk about

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00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,520
growth.
At what point does a lack of

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00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,800
audience growth become something
worth paying closer attention

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00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,880
to?
Think about that for a minute,

249
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,720
right?
Because at some point, maybe,

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you know, like my clients who I
just shared, they actually saw

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00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,560
their numbers going in the
opposite direction.

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00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,760
It wasn't even a matter of we're
not growing that we're starting

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00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,200
to lose listeners.
Is that the point where you need

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00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,800
to pay closer attention to when
to to getting your audience

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00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,080
growth up?
All right, let's check in with

256
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,560
BC and then we'll go back to
Ralph.

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00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,600
Go ahead BC.
Yeah, this is an interesting

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00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,560
question.
And my initial thoughts are if

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00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,960
you're looking and really kind
of delving into what of your

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00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:28,320
content seems to move the needle
and if you have at least someone

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00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,520
on your team looking at your
content, let's see you doing

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00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,600
like a weekly show, looking at
it monthly and you can determine

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00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,560
OK, what seems to not be working
versus what is working.

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00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,440
So and doubling down on what
kind of content or at least what

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00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,160
the format of the working
content is, then I would believe

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you shouldn't see too much of A
dip or a plateau.

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00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,520
But I think if you still do, it
could be that you are either

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00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,040
hitting your the scope of your
show too broadly.

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00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,520
You're not really niching and
and finding those really kind of

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00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,440
cool, not cookie cutter topics,
but like those really cool

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00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:09,560
topics that people don't hate a
lot.

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00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,440
And they're my train of thought.
There it is.

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00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:12,280
Yeah, I hear you.
I hear.

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00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:13,320
Yeah, yeah.
Here we go.

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00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,360
That happens to me at least once
a show.

276
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,360
I'm with you there and good
points and that I think Nick

277
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,320
wanted to chime in as well.
And by the way, my apologies to

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00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,040
Alex, totally forgot to go to
you at the last question.

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00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,440
And if you have something big
you want to add to that, by all

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00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,800
means, flash that Pepper.
I will go back to you.

281
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,080
And again, please forgive me,
Nick, I saw you wanted to chime

282
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,200
in as well.
Go for it.

283
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,160
Yes, I think it comes seeing
your listener base and decrease.

284
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,440
I can look at that a couple
different ways.

285
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:52,400
One is maybe those listeners
aren't actually in your tribe

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00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,440
and your tribe is starting to
kind of weed itself out into the

287
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:05,359
core people of your community.
But you also can't ignore and

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00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,800
say, OK, is this something with
the content that is not

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00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,680
resonating?
Like maybe this is my tribe and

290
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,079
the content just isn't landing
with the audience anymore and

291
00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:18,119
maybe I need to make some
adjustments or fit it in the

292
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,040
content that I'm putting out
there.

293
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,920
So one, I'm not the first
example that I mentioned that

294
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,359
could be a positive because you
you don't want people in the

295
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,520
community that don't want to be
in the community and that don't

296
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,080
want to engage and be a part of
it and contribute and share and

297
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,240
do all that kind of stuff.
Like.

298
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,120
It's just taking up space and
giving you false information

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00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:37,320
because they're not going to
listen anyway.

300
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,160
But if it is content driven and
you're seeing a lot of numbers

301
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,960
drop down, then I would say
maybe experiment, Maybe some

302
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,000
tweets still make massive
changes to what you're doing,

303
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,080
but make little tweaks and see
if those little adjustments

304
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:55,360
change the numbers or change
what is happening with your

305
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,720
show.
But that those are just my two

306
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,120
thoughts.
Yeah, I think that can be.

307
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,840
That's certainly a smart way to
look at it that, you know, maybe

308
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,600
these people that are dropping
off, they aren't really part of

309
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,880
this community.
They aren't the fit, they aren't

310
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,560
part of my target audience.
And I mean, I think that holds

311
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,960
some weight.
And I think that if you are

312
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,960
consistently starting to lose
listeners, I think that there

313
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,560
may be an issue.
And to Nick's point, I think,

314
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,160
yeah, making tweaks to try to
figure out what's going on, I

315
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,360
think that's important.
And you could make small tweaks

316
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,200
like Nick is saying, or you
could make just one big change

317
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:36,880
at.
But the whole thing is whichever

318
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,400
way you go, small little tweaks,
one big tweak, I think you got

319
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,480
to make sure that you're giving
it time.

320
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:47,040
And that's the challenge for a
lot of us is that we want to

321
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:52,080
make those changes, but we want
them to yield some fruit right

322
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,080
away.
And it just doesn't work that

323
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,880
way.
We've got to watch and pay

324
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,520
attention to what happens after
that.

325
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,320
And sometimes that could take a
few months to really see because

326
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,880
you people have to find, you
have to find the revision,

327
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,640
right, the newer content, if you
will.

328
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,160
And then we they got to decide
whether they like it or not.

329
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,640
Ralph, did you want to chime in?
Yeah, I think this all points to

330
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,680
having a strategic plan.
An I think that's where a lot of

331
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,840
content creators sort of have a
shortcoming is I think at the

332
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,560
front end of this, I see so many
content creators that sort of

333
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,040
just go by seat of the pants,
like here's what I'm going to

334
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,280
try that, I'm going to try this,
that I'm going to try that.

335
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:40,080
I think that having a coherent
strategic plan with measurement

336
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,400
into what your expectations are
is a better way to go because I

337
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,280
think that's where we run into a
problem.

338
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,320
If we don't have a plan of
here's what we're going to do

339
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,400
from the front end, I think then
you flail around, you make

340
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,600
changes.
There's sort of a Willy nilly

341
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,800
approach to podcasting and I
think that can really give you

342
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,400
some struggles.
So I think one of the first

343
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,240
things you can do if you're
feeling like your growth is not

344
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,760
happening or you feel like
you're going in the wrong

345
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,320
direction, then you've got to go
back and say, what is my plan

346
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,040
here?
What is my strategy?

347
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,440
What are the main components of
what I'm trying to develop here?

348
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,240
That's what I work with a lot of
people, not even in content

349
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,400
creation but just building
strategy systems.

350
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,480
Because then you know what to do
next.

351
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,840
You know what your plans are.
Thank you, Ralph.

352
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,360
I think that's a big one for
sure.

353
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:32,600
I think a lot of us go in with a
light plan and particularly I

354
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,760
should say around when we're
launching the podcast and then

355
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,080
the plan can for many of us, not
everyone, but for a lot of us

356
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,040
then there is no plan after the
launch other than I'm going to

357
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,400
put out weekly content and it's
going to come out every

358
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,360
Wednesday.
I'm going to promote it with 1-2

359
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:53,760
or three clips or other pieces
of social media and I'm done

360
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,120
hands clean next episode.
But that's not really much of A

361
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:59,240
strategy.
That's a process.

362
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,840
That's what I was getting at,
Mark, is I think you need to

363
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,960
have a strategy because for
every minute that you have in

364
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,480
podcasting, I think the argument
could be made.

365
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,280
You need to have that same
minute in marketing at same

366
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,280
minute in developing your
audience.

367
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,960
And if you're focusing only on
creating the content, I think

368
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,920
you're missing out on the
strategy.

369
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,520
That's important to grow the
content.

370
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:21,800
Absolutely.
Thank you, Ralph.

371
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,000
Let's go to Alex.
Alex, please forgive me for

372
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,440
forgetting you on the last
question.

373
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:26,680
It's OK.
Go for it.

374
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:28,600
You know, Ralph makes a good
point.

375
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,200
You know, the figure it out
method never really works, but

376
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,240
you know, you have to create
your own block and and you have

377
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,600
to look at yourself.
And one thing Billy said in the

378
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:43,120
past that, you know, that really
kind of I always think about is,

379
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,480
you know, this isn't easy.
I purposely paused.

380
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,880
Podcasting's not easy, meaning
the marketing end.

381
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,080
There's a whole marketing end to
it.

382
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,800
And I'm not saying you have to
have 1000 clips and all this

383
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,560
other stuff, but are you trying
to set yourself up for success

384
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,680
in the sense of are you
networking?

385
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,200
Are you trying to guest?
Are you trying to do the other

386
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,920
things to create the opportunity
for people to listen?

387
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,880
And I think that's the biggest
thing that people kind of

388
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,680
forget.
I know a lot of people on the

389
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,040
stage do talk about it and some
of them don't.

390
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,320
I mean, in this room, you know,
we've got people that are

391
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,400
business people, meaning
entrepreneurs to people that

392
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,360
work for other people.
And when you work for somebody

393
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:39,000
else, that's a different mindset
than when you're working for

394
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,080
yourself.
I'm not saying that's good or

395
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,800
bad, it's just a different
mindset.

396
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,680
And I think when you have a
podcast, you are an entrepreneur

397
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,520
and I don't care if you want to
make money or not.

398
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:52,760
You know, with my daughter's
podcast, although it's kind of

399
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,320
been sale lately, we've gone to
bookstores, we've talked to

400
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,480
people, we did the things to
create that opportunity.

401
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,880
And I'm really sad to hear that
your client is having this these

402
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,440
type of problems because you
want to be that thought leader

403
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,240
in that space.
And maybe, and I'm not saying

404
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,520
they're not doing the work
because they probably are,

405
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,160
because they have to find that
other group that can start

406
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,800
speaking for them so that when
they have that issue, they go to

407
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,720
them for an answer.
And I just think that that's one

408
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,400
thing that not dismissed from
this, but it's something that,

409
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,840
you know, you have to create
your own luck and you can't just

410
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,800
say I have a podcast, everybody
listened because I know a lot of

411
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,520
people, first time podcasters,
OK, I'm out there Internet.

412
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,800
So everybody should just listen.
No, they got to find you and you

413
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,880
have to, you know, be a little
pushy and.

414
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,640
Thank you, Alex.
I'm with you there and I will

415
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,520
get back to one of your points
here in a second because I saw

416
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,760
Ralph says he disagrees, which
surprises me a little bit.

417
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,400
And I fully agree about the
whole create your luck line that

418
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,000
you shared, and I'll share a
little bit about that in a

419
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,120
moment.
And yeah, Tide is appreciating

420
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:04,680
Alex's passion there.
And I saw Nick wanted to chime

421
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:05,800
in.
Go for it, Nick.

422
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:12,480
I think, and I've mentioned this
many times in the past, but the

423
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,200
marketing piece of it for a vast
majority of broadcasters tends

424
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,760
to be the the breaking point to
the failure point in the whole

425
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,440
system.
Because it it's one thing to put

426
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,400
out the content, create the
episodes out of the episodes,

427
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,080
publish the episodes.
But then when it comes to

428
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:37,120
actually promoting and getting
the show visibility, I think

429
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,400
that piece of it always kind of
falls flat.

430
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,040
Because so much effort has gone
in on the front end of producing

431
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,680
the show that by the time you're
done with it, you're looking at

432
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,560
the next episode and not putting
enough effort into actually

433
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,720
getting it out in front of more
people.

434
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,480
That said, there are multiple
different ways for marketing the

435
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,640
show. 1 of them being the what
most people think about.

436
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,480
Like with social media, more
clips, more posts, more

437
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,800
visibility online, which I think
is great, but it takes a

438
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,600
completely different skill set
and mindset to do that.

439
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,240
Where and I I put this one in
the chat.

440
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:18,560
I think one solid strategy and
approach is find, like really

441
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:24,680
try hard to find and connect
with this one listeners that are

442
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,680
constantly coming back.
Maybe they're commenting on

443
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,320
Spotify or maybe they're
dropping you a comment in

444
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,560
Instagram every time you post.
Find those one or two people and

445
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,520
see if you can bring them on a
call once a month or whatever it

446
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,640
is and bounce content off them.
Ask them questions about their

447
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,640
struggles, what they're dealing
with, how they would like to see

448
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,320
some of those episodes shaped up
because they're going to be the

449
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,640
ones that keep coming back.
And then you can slowly add more

450
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,720
people into that to where you
are now building a community,

451
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:57,320
building more people.
But not only that, they're now

452
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,800
giving you feedback directly and
telling you, hey, like this is

453
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:02,880
something that I've struggled
with.

454
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,960
Boom content idea.
Hey, this is something that I

455
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,880
was thinking about.
Boom another podcast episode

456
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,440
idea.
Hey, I think it would be really

457
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,000
cool if you did this Boom,
another content podcast episode

458
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,160
idea.
Like you're getting that direct

459
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,440
feedback and you are speaking
directly to the audience that

460
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,040
you want to speak to.
And I think that in itself is

461
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,280
going to, one, get them to start
sharing it with other people.

462
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,240
And then two, increasing that
listenership as opposed to

463
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,720
having that massive decline or
consistent decline in listeners.

464
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,160
Because to me, if it's a
consistent thing, that means

465
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,480
that the podcast isn't
delivering what the listener

466
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,200
expected or wanted.
And I'll get off my soapbox.

467
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,440
Hey, Mark, I know Stid wants to
go, but I did want to address

468
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,480
what Ralph said.
I think we're saying the same

469
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,160
thing, just in a different way.
Creating your own luck doesn't

470
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,800
mean that you just do anything
Willy nilly.

471
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:57,200
You have to put the work in and
those opportunities come by

472
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,960
chance.
You know, like for instance,

473
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,280
Ralph, you went to Empower
Podcasting with a podcast

474
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,840
already.
You took it to the next level

475
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,800
because you went to Empower
Podcasting from that.

476
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,920
You're on stage and we're doing
what you're doing now.

477
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,320
So you created your own luck in
that sense.

478
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,840
So you did the work.
And I think that's the

479
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,440
difference.
I mean, yeah, it is about

480
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,080
systems.
I'm absolutely with you, but I

481
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,040
know Sid was the head of me.
Sorry.

482
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,400
Yeah.
And I'll just throw in, yeah,

483
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,360
this is where I totally agree
with you, Alex.

484
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,920
I think that, yeah, when we say,
at least when I say creating our

485
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,280
own luck, it's taking action
toward the things that you want

486
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,720
and a lot.
And when you do, new

487
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,680
opportunities present
themselves, sometimes

488
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,800
opportunities you were never
even expecting.

489
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,600
And that is by definition the
luck that I'm talking about.

490
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,680
When we take action, we create
our own reality.

491
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,280
I'll let Ralph respond and then
let's go to Sid.

492
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,840
Yeah, And I think it's just a
choice of words.

493
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,880
So when I hear the word luck, I
think lottery, that's just me.

494
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,480
That's what I bring to it.
That's my bias in that thing.

495
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,720
I think it comes down to exactly
what all of you are saying.

496
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,240
I just the word luck just rubs
me the wrong way.

497
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,280
But I think it's a coherent
strategy, a plan.

498
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,880
And I'll address what Alex said.
When I went to EPC two, it was

499
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,320
all part of the strategy, the
strategy to get myself in front

500
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,320
of other people, to get myself
around other people in the

501
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,040
industry.
And that had been scoped out a

502
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,680
year in advance.
I had already thought about what

503
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,800
events do I want to attend, who
are the people I want to go and

504
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,120
get myself in front of?
Because to me, that's a coherent

505
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,160
strategy that's intentional in
every single action that I take.

506
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,200
Now, again, I'm a type A
personality.

507
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,680
I am super into systems, to be
blunt with you.

508
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,200
I've got my content already laid
out for the next 6 months ahead

509
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,800
of time and I do a Daily Show
'cause you can imagine what that

510
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,400
looks like.
But that's what works for me.

511
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,720
I'm not saying that works for
everybody, but I have a strategy

512
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,160
and that's the way my mind
works.

513
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,240
So Alex, I don't disagree with
the way you've rephrase that,

514
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,680
and so I apologize if it came
off a little strong there.

515
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,440
I just look at luck as a lottery
and I think it's just more

516
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,280
intentional.
But let me ask you, and this

517
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:16,920
will be I promised it.
I'm sorry.

518
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:22,000
I know we've been jumping.
Did something happen in that

519
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,000
plan that was unexpectedly
positive?

520
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,800
And that's where the, even
though you have that plan,

521
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,760
another opportunity might have
come along and it's because you

522
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,040
had it was behind all the stuff
that you did.

523
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,120
That was all I was saying.
You know, it just comes out.

524
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,440
We're saying the same thing.
I agree, and I think that I'll

525
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,600
use the word opportunities
instead of luck.

526
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,120
I'll say the word opportunities
arise when you're following a

527
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,160
strategy that is trying to get
you from point A to point B.

528
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,280
If I want to drive from Delaware
to New York City, I've got to

529
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,960
have a map of how to get there.
If I just get in the car and

530
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,080
start driving, I'm not going to
end up there.

531
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,480
But I agree with you, Alex.
There are opportunities that

532
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,280
present themselves because of
having a strategy.

533
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,720
You may get there if you already
knew how to get there in the

534
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,280
first place.
That's fair, Mark.

535
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,960
I'm not like I can follow this
song.

536
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,200
I'm not being a smart aleck,
Mark.

537
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,440
No, you're right.
I'm just saying like I think

538
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,960
you're more strategic and you
get there quicker when you use

539
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,840
your GPS and you have a map.
Unless you've been going there

540
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,880
all the time for your entire
life and you know every route

541
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,760
and every way to go.
OK, again, I'm being the smart

542
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,080
aleck, not you, Ralph.
I'm just playing around.

543
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,600
Sid.
We are finally coming to you,

544
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:34,960
Sir.
What would you like to add?

545
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,960
Good morning, everybody and it's
all good.

546
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,080
And Mark, I appreciate the smart
as to read very much so.

547
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,640
So to answer your original
question that started this

548
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,280
really great dialogue, I think
and I don't even remember

549
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,280
exactly what the question was,
but my answer to your question

550
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:52,840
is you got to look at your
content.

551
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,400
Yeah, look at your content and
what is your content telling you

552
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,960
that's resonating with your
audience?

553
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,000
What's the consumption rate?
How many plays that specific

554
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,680
content type get?
And when you see the signals of

555
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,520
growth content, then do more of
that content.

556
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,880
When you see the signals of
content that's not resonating,

557
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,520
do less of that content.
It may mean reorienting your

558
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,840
show and changing things around,
but you got to pay attention to

559
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,400
what the content is telling you.
That's your audience way of

560
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,880
telling you whether or not they
really liked the topic or

561
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,360
they're really going to engage
with the topic.

562
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,360
And that could even mean simple
things like tweaks in the

563
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,240
titles.
But you got to change the title

564
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,360
of the show to get people to
click play, right?

565
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,800
So you got to really look at
that content.

566
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:35,640
But I did want to.
And Nicks already gone.

567
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,880
I wanted to add into something
that Nick said about marketing.

568
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,400
That's really the hard part.
Marketing your show is really

569
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,280
the hard part.
Yesterday I looked at the my

570
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,480
follow feed on Apple and I came
across a show that I haven't

571
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,840
listened to in a while.
And I'm thinking my behavior is

572
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,280
my listeners behavior too,
right?

573
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,040
So, and I thought, oh God, I
haven't missed this in a while.

574
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,080
Let me listen to this and some
of you may know her.

575
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,560
It's Amy Joe Martin, and I think
I got introduced to her by

576
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,720
somebody in this room.
Yeah, her name sounds very

577
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,920
familiar.
So I clicked play and I was

578
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,200
freaking blown away by that
podcast episode.

579
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,920
I stopped up in my notes app and
chatting down notes and having

580
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,600
to pause and write things down
because some of the stuff was so

581
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,120
good.
So I went on to LinkedIn and I

582
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,000
went over to her LinkedIn page.
So I'm going to post about that

583
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,160
episode today as a thank you
because how great the

584
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,280
conversation was.
And I saw she posted a reel

585
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,440
about I'm connected to her.
I don't know how I got connected

586
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,080
to her.
But anyways, I saw supposed to

587
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,760
read all about that episode and
that title.

588
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,320
They were talking about a book
called the AI Driven Leader.

589
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,280
I have since downloaded the book
and started listening to the

590
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,160
book.
That's action, right?

591
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,600
And I hope that's the action
that my listeners are taking

592
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,680
because those are actions that I
took.

593
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,280
I texted that episode to a
couple of different people

594
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,640
saying listen to this.
I downloaded the book.

595
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,560
She doesn't know I took any of
those actions.

596
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,200
She's going to know because I'm
going to post about it later

597
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,000
today, right?
But my point being is she has

598
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,080
21,000 followers on LinkedIn,
which is a really big number on

599
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,840
LinkedIn.
And her reel had six likes.

600
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,640
Marketing is hard.
She's a keynote speaker.

601
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,040
She's got a business like she
is.

602
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,840
She knows her, she knows her
stuff, right?

603
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,000
And she posted a reel that had
six likes.

604
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,760
Marketing is hard, yeah.
And you can't give up.

605
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,480
You got to keep going.
You got to keep pushing through

606
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:32,800
it.
You got to keep talking about

607
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,240
it.
And I put this in the chat.

608
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,440
Who did you tell about your show
today, every day?

609
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,960
Do you tell somebody about your
show to that is organic

610
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,840
guerrilla marketing, grassroots
marketing, and you got to tell

611
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,960
people about your show.
And then it's.

612
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,800
There's another question and
I'll get off my soapbox.

613
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,400
The other question that you
asked earlier that made me or

614
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,600
somebody said new listeners
coming in and it may not be your

615
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,520
tribe that may not, but how do
you get them to click that

616
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,200
follow button?
That's a really great

617
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,760
measurement.
How many people are following

618
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,040
your show versus how many people
are listening to your show.

619
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,960
I have a 600 person delta
between followers and listeners.

620
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,159
I got to figure out how to get
those listeners to click the

621
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:16,040
follow button.
Thank you Sid, I'm sorry I'm

622
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,360
giggling because Billy's comment
his marketing is hard or

623
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,080
LinkedIn sucks lol.
And Billy is perfect.

624
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,480
Everything Billy does is
perfect.

625
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,560
Let's be clear.
I mean, I think both statements

626
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:33,040
are true if I'm being honest.
And LinkedIn, I don't

627
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,000
necessarily think it sucks, but
I'll tell you what, any videos

628
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,480
that I put on there, it is hard
to get any kind of reach with

629
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,639
videos for me on LinkedIn.
But yes, I'm with you, Sid.

630
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:47,440
As a matter of fact, a guy who
joined us at Empowered

631
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,480
Podcasting too, who was the
speaker there.

632
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,520
And an older friend of mine in
the social media world, Danny

633
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:59,080
Del Vecchio, he just posted a
real similar to what you're

634
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,160
talking about as far as
marketing is hard, but also

635
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,760
really putting it in perspective
when you get those videos that

636
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,920
only get 6 likes, for example.
And I'm going to actually try to

637
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,200
play it for you guys right here.
I'll play you a piece of it

638
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:13,520
here.
Let me hold on.

639
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,920
Video and I'm all mad because it
only gets 96 views and I almost

640
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,720
deleted it.
And then two days ago sales

641
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:23,040
meeting pops up on my calendar.
I'm on the call with the guy

642
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,840
today and he's like, hey, I saw
the video that you did on the

643
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,000
beach about content systems.
He's like, it's exactly what I

644
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,960
need for my business.
So that 96 view video turned

645
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,960
into a client.
And so it's basically like worth

646
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,600
more than every viral video that
I've ever posted.

647
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,880
There you go.
So sometimes that's the

648
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,520
marketing doing its work, right?
Yeah.

649
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:48,080
You look at it from the surface
and say, oh, this didn't work, 6

650
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,440
people saw it and Danny was
about to delete the video, which

651
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,600
I'm shocked to hear he was going
to delete.

652
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,960
That makes me angry and I'm glad
he didn't because there you go.

653
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,320
He got business out of it.
Now, unfortunately, this goes

654
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,880
back to my client again, that
inspired this conversation,

655
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,920
right?
Because all they want is reach.

656
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,600
All they want is growth.
And that's going to be really

657
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:18,080
challenging for them without
investing money, I think, into

658
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,520
getting more reach.
Yes, Ralph, go ahead.

659
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,720
Yeah, I just wanted to trumpet
something that sits and it's

660
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:25,280
going to go a long lines where
you're at.

661
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,320
I wonder if it's a content
issue.

662
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:32,320
And the reason I say that is a
lot of content creators don't

663
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,840
want to talk about their
content.

664
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,000
And I think sometimes we have to
make sure that our content is

665
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,200
solving a problem for someone.
When your content solves a

666
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,680
problem for someone, that's when
you will grow your audience.

667
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,600
In my view.
There's a lot of people out

668
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,600
there talking things.
You get a lot of people, a lot

669
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,200
of options and things you want
to hear.

670
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,720
But what I see, people who are
successful are people who solve

671
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:58,800
the audience's problem.
So you got to go back and look

672
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,800
at your content and say, what
problem am I solving?

673
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,840
If you're just getting on and
pontificating about a topic

674
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:06,200
that's of interest to you,
that's great.

675
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,880
That might be a great hobby
podcast.

676
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,400
But if you really want to grow
your audience, you've got to

677
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,640
solve a problem for them and
you've got to go back and look

678
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,960
at your content.
Sometimes it's easier to throw

679
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,400
money at it.
It's easier to throw marketing

680
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,360
dollars.
It's easy to do all those

681
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,560
organic goods.
Go go talk to people about it.

682
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,040
But do you really want to go
back and say, is my content any

683
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,960
good?
That's a hard question.

684
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,360
Yeah, I'm with you there.
And we talked about that too

685
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,200
with the client.
I talked to them about that and

686
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,080
you know, we noticed that the
retention rate is lower than

687
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:44,040
we'd like it to be.
I encourage a goal for anybody

688
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,200
to try to get at least 80%
retention rate.

689
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,480
In other words, 80% of your
episodes on average are being

690
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:56,720
consumed, 80% of the minutes of
an episode are being consumed,

691
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,040
and theirs is a little lower.
And the funny part is, is that

692
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,600
they're hesitating to maybe
consider doing a shorter show.

693
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,960
Maybe the answer here is that
the audience just wants it more

694
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,960
of a quick to the point type of
show.

695
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,520
So I've been working with them,
starting to work with them,

696
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,280
encouraging them to consider
experimenting with shorter

697
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,680
shows.
And again, that's the key,

698
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:22,720
right?
That's what we were talking

699
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:25,080
about earlier.
This is an experiment, it is a

700
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,240
test.
It's something that we have to

701
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:31,240
do over time and be patient
because if we try it for a

702
00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:35,120
month, maybe put a couple of
episodes out in a month that are

703
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,080
shorter and it doesn't really
translate yet, That's not the

704
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,640
time to give up.
But that is where I see a lot of

705
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,960
podcasters grow, where I see a
lot of podcasters give up.

706
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:48,640
How long is the show like
episode wise?

707
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,680
It depends.
So when it's just the two of the

708
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,720
Co hosts themselves, they try to
keep it around 30 minutes.

709
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:56,840
When they have guests it's
usually around 60.

710
00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:59,480
Oh, so it's not very.
I mean, 30 minutes isn't that

711
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,360
long, I mean.
No, it's not terribly long.

712
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,520
And since they've cut that down
to more like 30 minutes, they

713
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,000
have seen a bit of a rise in
their retention rate as of late.

714
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,280
Have they asked our audience?
Have they done a survey?

715
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,880
Have they asked our audience
what their audience wants?

716
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,160
Well, and that's part of the
trouble is that they're not

717
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,720
getting a lot of response from
their audience.

718
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,920
And one of the things that I
noticed and suggested to them is

719
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,520
that they're waiting to ask
their audience for feedback or

720
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,200
giving their audience a call to
action.

721
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,720
They're waiting until the very
end and if people aren't

722
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,040
finishing the episodes, they're
never hearing those calls to

723
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,560
action.
So one of the strategies we're

724
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,720
going to take is to do this at
the first half of their episode

725
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,040
to share, Hey, give us your
feedback and asking specific for

726
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,280
specific types of feedback, not
just hey, how we doing, let us

727
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,280
know, but asking for specific
things about specific episodes

728
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,360
so that we can get more
direction, more feedback that

729
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,440
actually.
Mean something to the hosts?

730
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,600
Yes, Sid, go ahead.
Actually I want to go to

731
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,680
Jonathan first.
Actually Dr. First, then

732
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,600
Jonathan, me.
There you go, please.

733
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:15,120
So I wanted to know how long
should the experiment before you

734
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,040
say, OK, let's pivot again and
try something else?

735
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,240
Yeah.
I think that that's something

736
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:24,400
that you have to determine going
in because again, that goes back

737
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,760
to setting intentions, goals,
expectations from the get go.

738
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:34,000
And I personally, so let's say
that this is a once a week

739
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,520
podcast that yeah, they produce
1 episode a week for their

740
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,320
audience.
I would actually consider one of

741
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,640
the things we're talking about
is doing a shorter episode,

742
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,240
maybe sprinkling it in once or
twice a month.

743
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,720
And honestly, I think you've got
to do that for at least three

744
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:53,840
months with that kind of
repetition, right?

745
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,880
I mean, if you're moving to all
together, like, OK, for the next

746
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,880
two months, every episode's
going to be significantly

747
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,560
shorter.
It's going to be 15 minutes.

748
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,760
Well, then, you know, I think,
yeah, one to two months might be

749
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,400
enough.
But the more time you can give

750
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,440
it, the more data you have to
work with and the better

751
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,120
educated decisions you can make.
OK.

752
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,480
Yeah.
Jonathan, go for it.

753
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,040
So I was just going to give them
a really simple thing they can

754
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,840
do, which is open the slot on
their calendar for a listener

755
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,280
once a month and talk to that
listener and see what that

756
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,160
listener has.
That might be interesting

757
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,960
feedback for them.
A little something we learned at

758
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,560
Podcast Movement a couple years
ago.

759
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,240
OK, Yeah.
And of course, the key has to be

760
00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:41,280
they need to put this in front
of their audience earlier on in

761
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,080
the episode itself.
I think that is the best place

762
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,600
to ask your audience because you
have their captured attention.

763
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,520
So just making sure that they
are actually there to hear it.

764
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,640
That's important.
And then, yeah, I would follow

765
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,800
that up with social media posts
to encourage your audience who

766
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,160
may not have heard that part of
your episode yet, that request,

767
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,200
put it out there on social media
for them.

768
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,640
Thank you, Jonathan, for that.
Sid, go for it.

769
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,720
So I think we all have to think
about the listener behavior when

770
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:15,280
we're asking for feedback.
And the listener, we know

771
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,200
they're driving, they're
walking, they're exercising,

772
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,960
they're doing housework.
And we say, hey, we dropped a

773
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,960
link in the notes, Please go to
show notes, clean that, click

774
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,800
that link and fill out that
survey for us because we really

775
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,240
value your feedback.
Like you're asking them to take

776
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:35,360
action and they're either going
to say to themselves, which what

777
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:40,960
I typically do is all go back to
that show and I will, I'll go

778
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,960
and grab that link and I'll do
the feedback and then I forget I

779
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,640
get busy because they're likely
not going to stop in the middle

780
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,640
of their workout, stop the show,
quit listening, click the link

781
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,240
and take 5 minutes to fill out a
survey.

782
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:56,200
So to me, a better way to do it,
which is what I did when I was

783
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,840
trying to say I did put the, I
did ask for surveys in my show.

784
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,520
I did put a calendar link out
there and I had a few people do

785
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,280
it, but I got better feedback
when I reached out to them

786
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,600
directly.
Most of them were either on

787
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,840
e-mail or through LinkedIn
messaging.

788
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,720
I reached out to them directly,
said, hey, this is what I'm

789
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:16,920
doing.
I'd love for you to either

790
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,600
complete this survey, here's the
link, or schedule time with me

791
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,360
and I can ask you these five
questions that I have.

792
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,000
I think you just got it.
You got to remember what they're

793
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,200
doing when they're listening and
you're asking them to take

794
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,400
action.
If you're asking them to stop

795
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,960
what they're doing, stop
listening to the show and go

796
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,240
take action.
And I think that's just

797
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:35,760
something to be mindful of.
And if you're a podcaster, you

798
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,280
should be a podcast listener and
take clues from how you listen.

799
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:43,280
But how did you know to who to
reach out to?

800
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,320
Dr. answer that question.
Who on this stage would like to

801
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,640
answer that question for Dr.
Because I've said this 1000

802
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:49,800
times.
I don't remember, I'll be

803
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,240
honest.
Oh you guys are y'all don't

804
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:53,960
listen.
Thank you.

805
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,360
I have I have a spreadsheet.
Oh yes.

806
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,600
So I have a spreadsheet.
Every time that somebody engages

807
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,840
with my show, I open up my
spreadsheet called podcast

808
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,800
listeners.
I put their name and their

809
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,440
LinkedIn profile in the
spreadsheet.

810
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,720
If I have their e-mail address,
I put their e-mail address in

811
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:11,640
the spreadsheet so I know who's
listening.

812
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,960
And I'm doing that intentionally
so that I don't try to remember

813
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,000
who's listening to my show.
This is anybody that interacts

814
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,000
with some content relative to my
show, most of which is on

815
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,400
LinkedIn, whether they post
about it, they leave a

816
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,640
thoughtful comment about it or
whatever it might be, they tag

817
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:32,560
as they share it, right?
I mean, I'm putting, that's how

818
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:33,680
I'm tracking.
I'm putting them in a

819
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,200
spreadsheet with their LinkedIn
profile and e-mail address.

820
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,160
If I have and I'm connecting
with them, like there was a guy

821
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,960
yesterday that I was not
connected to that made a

822
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,640
connection request with me.
And so I went and looked at his

823
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,400
profile and went, oh, he's a
perfect candidate, perfect

824
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,200
client for me for our new
business.

825
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:53,640
And then I saw a notification
that he commented on a post that

826
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,880
a brand made about an episode
where I in their creative

827
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,160
director.
And then I, when I accepted his

828
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:05,520
connection request, I send a
note to him thanking him for the

829
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,400
connection.
That's great to meet other

830
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,360
furniture friends.
And then I said I really

831
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,960
appreciate your thoughtful
comment about my discussion with

832
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,240
Todd.
I thought it was a really great

833
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:15,960
conversation.
And by the way, I checked out

834
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,920
your products.
I checked out your website and

835
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:19,960
made me a beautiful products.
I'd never heard of this guy or

836
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,400
this company before.
And so now I've started one step

837
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,280
towards building relationship
and how this guy is on my

838
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,840
spreadsheet.
I mean, it's work, it's work.

839
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,360
And but I'm building something
that I'm already proud of, but

840
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,400
I'm really intentionally
building something that I want

841
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,400
to grow.
And so connecting with that

842
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,480
listener because all I need is
him to share that episode with

843
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,720
one person and my show grows,
right?

844
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,000
That's all I need is him to
share.

845
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,320
If he has a connection with me,
hopefully that encourages him.

846
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,320
Maybe in this conversation when
he responds to my message, maybe

847
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,560
I can ask him to share it with
somebody, right?

848
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,400
And so I want to respond to one
thing that Ralph said into the

849
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,040
chat and which is 90 days.
Why 90 days?

850
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,920
Because I made a comment that
you should run your tests and

851
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:02,760
the new episodes for 90 days and
then take the feedback.

852
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,880
I think you have to do the 90
days because if you get 1000

853
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,040
listens on your episode, you're
not going to get them all delete

854
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:11,640
to the episode drop.
You're just not.

855
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,880
I mean, I'm looking at my
downloads for the quarter, but I

856
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,520
shared the other day and 65% of
the downloads that I'm getting

857
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,240
in, 1/4 are coming from my back
catalog.

858
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:20,960
That kind of was there for a
reason.

859
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,080
People are consuming and
listening to.

860
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,680
And I don't think that if you
did a 30 day test, I don't think

861
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,240
that's reaching your audience
enough because I'm going to use

862
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:32,440
myself again as an example, Amy
Jo Martin, I had not listened to

863
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,000
her show properly in three
months and I saw her at the top

864
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,760
of my feed yesterday.
I thought I need to listen to

865
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,800
this and the topic grabbed me
and I'm like, I need to listen

866
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,440
to this.
So I think you got to give it

867
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,680
more time because they're not
listening every day when the

868
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,120
show drops.
Yeah, thank you, Sid.

869
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,240
And I also saw Ralph agreed with
everything you were sharing

870
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:53,960
moment ago saying it is work.
Well said Sid.

871
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,920
Yeah, thank you, Sid.
Appreciate you breaking that

872
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,000
down for us.
I want to go to Tide who has

873
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,400
been waiting patiently to chime
in as well.

874
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:02,880
Go for it Tide.
Good morning.

875
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:05,240
Good morning to you too.
Yeah, I was just going to say

876
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:07,280
this is kind of piggybacking on
what others said.

877
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,600
But as I get more immersed into
the digital world, I have

878
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:16,200
realized how much I have grown
dependent on information that

879
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,160
comes in a digital format.
So I might be looking on Reddit,

880
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,160
I might be looking on Facebook
for things that people have

881
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,000
searched.
And all of that is good.

882
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,680
It's not bad information at all.
But where I really get the depth

883
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:31,400
of the information?
That I need.

884
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,920
To hopefully put together a
success, successful podcast is

885
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,760
when I go out there and I do
what you guys have suggested and

886
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,440
that is talk to people.
So if I'm at the library, cuz I

887
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,720
go there a lot, I might just
walk up to someone and say, hey,

888
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:45,160
you know, I just had a quick
question about this.

889
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,480
Do you mind if I, you know, pull
you on something?

890
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,880
Or I might, might not use the
word pull because that kind of

891
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,480
triggers a lot of different
reactions.

892
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,160
And but I might just ask them,
you know, Hey, can I just ask

893
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,320
you a quick question?
And I'm not afraid to do those

894
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,080
types of things.
I'm not afraid to walk up to

895
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,160
somebody who I don't know at all
from Adam and just say, hey,

896
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,280
I've got a quick question.
I'm doing this podcast or I've

897
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,200
got this project I'm working on.
Just looking for some feedback.

898
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,600
Would you be able to spare, you
know, 10 seconds just to kind of

899
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,600
hear me out?
And so I've never had someone

900
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,600
say no.
I've never had someone shoo me

901
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:16,560
away.
But.

902
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,160
That doesn't mean that they
won't, and I'm perfectly fine

903
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:20,680
with rejection too.
That's.

904
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,200
Doesn't bother me at all, but
that the point is that the depth

905
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,320
of the information really comes
from talking to people, getting

906
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:33,000
a real live person, somebody who
has a lived experience.

907
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,560
And sometimes those
conversations, they turn into

908
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,400
way more than what I thought.
Sometimes people are so willing

909
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,480
to share their experiences or
their thoughts or their feelings

910
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,680
way more than I ever thought
that they would be.

911
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,960
And it's really, it's really
valuable.

912
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,720
So I would say definitely for
anyone who's looking to grow

913
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:53,680
their show, you know, don't
underestimate the power of just

914
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,760
putting your ear to the ground
and really just getting out

915
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,560
there and talking to people.
Amen to that tide.

916
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,200
Thank you for sharing a real
life example that's working for

917
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,040
you.
And it reminds me that when I

918
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,160
was sharing a moment ago about
asking for feedback and being

919
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:14,400
specific, I wasn't doing you any
service by not sharing any

920
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,640
examples of what kind of
questions.

921
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,480
So again, what I was saying
earlier was you can't just say,

922
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,120
hey, e-mail me and give me
feedback.

923
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,160
How are you liking the
podcasting morning chat?

924
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,880
It's too broad, of course.
Sure, you'll you might get some

925
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,520
people who are excited to heed
the call, but overall, you're in

926
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:38,040
my experience, you're not going
to get a lot of response that

927
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,120
way.
So you know, it depends what

928
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,560
you're looking for, right?
Like if you want to know if this

929
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:46,240
has been valuable, if your
episodes are valuable to your

930
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:49,720
audience, ask them for one
specific thing that they took

931
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:52,360
away from the episode.
That's important, right?

932
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,240
If they can't tell you one
specific thing, maybe you're you

933
00:49:56,240 --> 00:49:59,320
have a value problem.
Did this episode give you

934
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,240
something useful, memorable,
worth sharing?

935
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,880
These are the questions that you
ask if you want to learn about

936
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,680
value, if you want to figure out
if your content is connecting

937
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,120
with your audience, which I
think are two different things,

938
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:13,880
you could ask them.
You know what?

939
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,480
Was there a moment in this
episode that felt most human to

940
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,560
you, most relatable?
Was there anything that made you

941
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,720
feel disconnected from me or the
audience?

942
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,800
And then, yeah, if you're
looking for just, hey, how can I

943
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,880
get better at this?
If I could, you could say if you

944
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,640
could change one thing about the
episode, what would it be?

945
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,000
What should I do more often?
What should I stop doing or do

946
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,640
less of?
Those are specific enough

947
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,920
questions that people can sink
their teeth into it and actually

948
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,680
provide you with some feedback.
So sometimes you might be doing

949
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,560
all the right things as far as
when you're asking where you're

950
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,160
asking for the feedback, but
maybe you're not asking the

951
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:57,400
right questions.
Anyone else want to chime in at

952
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,360
all here?
Before we wrap up, I have some

953
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,840
some final thoughts.
Jonathan, are you saying

954
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,080
something in the chat here that
maybe is worthwhile sharing on

955
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,440
stage?
I was typing something so now

956
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,520
you got a half a sentence.
In the chat because I couldn't

957
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,040
unmute with the.
While I was typing, but I was

958
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,040
just saying sometimes if you're
not getting, you're getting too

959
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,960
much sometimes to people, which
might be why you're not getting

960
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,600
things back.
And Ralph was saying that's why

961
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,680
he's dropping his Daily Show to
10 minutes and a single topic,

962
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,440
because if you're giving too
much content.

963
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:31,880
It overwhelms them and they run
away.

964
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,080
Yeah, sometimes scared.
Yeah, I'm with you.

965
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:41,080
And it's funny because I think
it's a hard, a hard transition

966
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,440
to make there.
What I find when I'm working

967
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,760
with podcasters, even the ones
that I'm talking about from

968
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:51,240
yesterday, they have a hard time
grasping the idea of wait

969
00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:53,520
shorter shows.
But I feel like I'm not giving

970
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,000
enough now.
But I think it's really more

971
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,320
you're giving a lot.
It's just you're being very

972
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:02,160
specific about it.
And and just to keep in mind,

973
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,600
people don't want more, they
want a solution.

974
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,400
You don't have to give them a
lot if you're giving them a

975
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,240
solution.
Amen to that.

976
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,040
Thank you, Jonathan.
Janae has joined us on stage.

977
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:14,240
Go ahead, Janae.
Good morning.

978
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,440
Morning.
This is so true.

979
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,000
The too much information is a
real thing.

980
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:22,720
Yeah.
It's information highway, right?

981
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:26,480
And and there was a example of
Russell Brunson giving his very

982
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,200
first talk and he's like ready
to take in all these orders.

983
00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:34,000
He had open up a fire hose of
information and people get so

984
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,400
confused.
They're like, wait, which part

985
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,240
do I want?
All of it, but I don't want all

986
00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:42,240
of it.
It's so true to limit how much

987
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:45,360
information that they get so
that they can take action on.

988
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,080
And I'm also very what's that
word where you?

989
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:56,120
I also do that, right, So.
What's the word for that?

990
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,440
That you also do that?
I feel like you just said it.

991
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,880
No, no, There's a specific word.
Somebody help me out, Ralph.

992
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:04,480
You may be.
Morning.

993
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,720
I keep telling you people, words
are hard in the morning.

994
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,760
I hate words in the morning.
Well, we do know Jump.

995
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,440
On that train with me, Janae.
Yes, we do know what you're

996
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,480
talking about.
I don't know the the word or

997
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,960
phrase you're looking for, but I
do not understand what you're

998
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:20,800
talking about.
Go ahead, Ralph.

999
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,680
I will jump in there because
this was a struggle for me and

1000
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,200
that's why I put in the chat my
Daily Show.

1001
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,600
I actually got feedback from a
couple listeners and they said,

1002
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,120
Ralph, we love how much
knowledge you have.

1003
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,800
But dude, give me one thing at a
time.

1004
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,080
Just give me one thing today,
show me a solution, and then

1005
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,800
tomorrow I promise I'll come
back and listen for another

1006
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,840
thing that I can work on.
But you're overwhelming us.

1007
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,440
And I think that's the problem
is I think sometimes we

1008
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,960
overwhelm our audience.
And I had the best of

1009
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,000
intentions, but when I finally
listened to the audience, I went

1010
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,560
from a 30 minute daily episode
to between 10:00 and 12:00.

1011
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,920
And when I did that, my
downloads doubled.

1012
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,840
It took about 90 days, but they
did double because I think I was

1013
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,800
overwhelming people giving him
too much.

1014
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,960
And when I just picked one thing
a day and said here's something

1015
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:12,680
you can can do to improve your
financial well-being, it just

1016
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:13,760
took off.
Yep.

1017
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,720
Thank you, Ralph.
Yeah, I think for many of us, we

1018
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:20,960
could take a long, hard look at
our content and probably

1019
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,440
discover that maybe we are just
giving too much value.

1020
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:29,200
I think a show like this, an
hour is appropriate because we

1021
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,880
have so many different thoughts
and opinions and it's more of a

1022
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,680
round table discussion.
So I think there's more room to

1023
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,520
allow it to breathe.
But I do think in general,

1024
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:42,440
especially solo shows or even
maybe shows with a host and Co

1025
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,440
host, I think that we try really
hard because we are trying to

1026
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,240
serve our audience right.
We want to give them the value

1027
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:53,000
we want to.
We want them to walk away

1028
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,880
feeling like wow, that was some
powerful information.

1029
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,720
But powerful doesn't mean more.
It means giving the right

1030
00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:03,160
information at the right time in
a digestible way.

1031
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,320
So look, I think today for me,
the big take away here is that

1032
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:12,040
audience growth does matter
depending on what you want your

1033
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,400
podcast to do for you.
And when growth isn't happening,

1034
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,120
I think we all agree it it's
usually not random.

1035
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,000
A lot of the time it comes back
to the show itself.

1036
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,720
As Ralph was pointing out, a
lot, the strategy behind it, or

1037
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:29,080
one area we didn't really dig
into yet is consistency.

1038
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,520
The consistency needed to build
the momentum, and that can fall

1039
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,040
into a lot of areas.
Not just putting out a show

1040
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:39,120
every day or every week, but
it's the consistency of

1041
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,840
promotion, marketing, branding,
all those other parts to the

1042
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,320
podcast.
The hard part here, I think, is

1043
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,760
being honest enough to figure
out which one of those things

1044
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,640
needs your attention.
Alex, did you want to say

1045
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,280
something before I wrapped?
Absolutely.

1046
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,040
I think that the take away for
me is you have to be comfortable

1047
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:02,000
with being uncomfortable.
And I think if you can do that,

1048
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,560
whatever tweaks you need to make
to make your podcast better will

1049
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,520
come.
And it's not easy when you're

1050
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,560
used to doing it a certain way
and you're comfortable with your

1051
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,560
tools.
You know, Dr. will never use an

1052
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,680
iPhone, regardless of how
awesome it is.

1053
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,440
You know, we just understand
that and we just don't care

1054
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:24,520
because we're going to.
Touch�� my friend.

1055
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:27,440
Touch��.
But my point being is it's just

1056
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,040
really about being comfortable
with being uncomfortable and

1057
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,520
with the technology that's out
there and the metrics, you just

1058
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:36,720
have to kind of play with it and
have fun with it because that's

1059
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:38,040
what we're supposed to be doing,
right?

1060
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,520
Absolutely, yes.
Thank you Alex, and thank you

1061
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,640
all for a great discussion
today.

1062
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:45,520
I had a feeling this would be a
juicy one.

1063
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,840
Thank you for all diving in to
this discussion.

1064
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,520
We are back tomorrow, 7:00 AM
Eastern talking all things

1065
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,120
podcasting news.
The headlines that we believe

1066
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,440
are important to you as an
independent or DIY podcaster.

1067
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,360
So come join us.
Always lots of good conversation

1068
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:06,440
on Wednesdays around those
headlines and a reminder you can

1069
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,360
win Ralph's roadcaster duo by
going to

1070
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:15,120
podcastingmorningchat.com/duo.
And until tomorrow, make it a

1071
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,160
great day.
Everybody take care.