461. Apple’s Video Podcast Push Changes Everything…And Nothing

0:05 Good morning podcasting, Morning chat. Today is Wednesday, February 25th, 2020. Sixth and today, it's podcast news and common day, and we're unpacking stories like the video hype versus audio loyalty, the truth about the skip button, and smart money moves for creators. So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, bottom left hand side of the screen and share it. However, Clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, please share this episode with a fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here.

1:21 Good morning again podcasting. Morning chap. Thank you so much for being here. I am your host Mark Ronick and currently on stage with me we have producer Ashley Feller, Dr. Faye, BC Babbles, Jonathan Howard, Sid Meadows, and also Janae has joined us as well on stage first thing this morning. You may have noticed I didn't say Ralph E Step. Ralph is currently with his wife who is having a procedure done. She's having a little bit of surgery. He said he's going to try to actually join us here on Clubhouse. I didn't tell him he had to. He just wants to join us here on Clubhouse. So we may hear from him a little later and we'll definitely still hear from him with his content creator News Bite that is was prerecorded.

2:07 He did that yesterday for us. So we will have him. And if you are catching us via video, you'll see him still 'cause he did this via video as well. You can learn all the different ways to connect with us, whether it's live or after the fact at Podcasting Morning chat.com/join us. And if you want to learn more about a lot of those people that I just mentioned, including Nick Naulback and Alex Bayliss who have just joined us, go to podcastingmorningchat.com/people and you can learn about each and every one of these people if you please. Good to have BC with me on the video. And yeah, I was trying to encourage more to come join, but I guess everybody felt they weren't camera ready.

2:54 BC always camera ready. Let's do it gang. It's time for the news and we start with some podcast data for you. I'm going to do the usual and then I'm going to also share a little news story that is podcast data related for you. So first, over the last week, 603,228 podcasts published at least one new episode. It's slightly up from the previous week by a half a percent. And over the last 30 days, almost 2.5 million podcasts published at least one new episode, which is up 20.4% compared to the last month.

3:42 Now, Speaking of data, this is the story I told you I was going to share. Pod Lytic launches to protect your podcast analytics. So if you've ever switched podcast hosts or hosting platforms and watched years of analytics disappear, this one's for you. A new platform as I just mentioned called Pod Lytic just launched and its whole mission is simple. Help podcasters keep their historical data forever. The founder built it after losing his own analytics during a migration, and he decided there had to be a better way. As they say, Podlytic lets you upload CSV exports from platforms like Simplecast, Transistor, Megaphone, and others, then stores them in what they're called a data vault.

4:35 It also pulls in real time data using OP3 and even connects with your YouTube analytics for video podcasting. So instead of stats living and dying with your hosting provider, you own a centralized performance history that follows you wherever you go. Now, I know that a lot of us when we have migrated, there are options to download your history before you officially leave your previous hosting platform, but this is going to make it easier for you. You don't even wouldn't even have to bother doing that because it's all getting saved for you in real time.

5:15 So there is a free tier, there are paid upgrades and early lifetime pricing for early adopters. So the big picture is that this taps into something that we talk a lot about here at the podcasting morning chat. Protecting what you build. Your audience matters, and your data matters too. So if analytics inform your strategy, sponsorship pitches, or long term growth decisions, having permanent and easy access to that history could be a serious advantage. So the real question is, should your hosting company be the gatekeeper of your performance history, or should you? I think that's a rhetorical question, but really it is annoying that we've had to deal with that for so long and cool to hear there's a solution.

6:03 I have not seen or tested this myself, so I'm not endorsing it, but I will say that is a a cool idea. I'm hoping that this is something that more people can take advantage of. Dr. You got our top. Yeah, good morning. This is Spotify's top five, and at #5 it's Crime Junkie. At #4 it's Spotify Presents. First time I've read that and #3 is the Sean Ryan show. Where's the Tiffany? It's already fine. There it is. OK number I'm talking too loud #2. Let's do it again. #3 is the Sean Ryan show #2 is the past weekend with Theo Von and #1 is the Joe Rogan Experience. Awesome.

6:50 And what's funny Dr. is the whole thing about you waiting for the the timpani. It's because there, there's definitely like 1/2 a second delay with Clubhouse. So that's why you get thrown and then we all get thrown, Yes. OK, now let's go to Apple's top. Five OK, Apple's top five is #5 Pod Save America #4 The Joe Rogan Experience. Oh, number four. Number three is Dateline. NBC number 2 is Crime Junkie and that the number one spot is The Daily. Thank you Dr. and I know you're reading your top fives. And now I'm reading the chat and Ashley and Sid think you've had some extra coffee this morning.

7:37 Not yet, I'm kind of hyped up because my cat was sitting on my keyboard when I came in and screwed my entire screen up, so I am. Maybe it was something funny with the eggs. No, she hasn't done eggs yet. She hasn't done eggs yet. Egg cooking happens in about what, 6 minutes or so? Yeah. Yeah. All right. So thank you, Dr. And Dr. is going to also share with us in a little bit more about the Ambi's that happened last night. She'll share about some winners from the 2026 Ambi's ceremony. So we'll hear more from her in a minute. First, let me share some events coming up that may be of interest to you. Podcasting Made Simple Live.

8:23 This is hosted by Pod Match and Alex Sanfilippo, friend of mine. This is a premium podcasting virtual event focused on helping podcast guests and podcast hosts improve their crafts so they can make a bigger positive impact on the world around them. It's listed on Pod News as a free event, and I know that usually it's a paid event, but it's also something I've seen that's pretty easy to go ahead and get free tickets. I think if you just reach out to Alex, that's how you do it. But you can get all the information at podmatch.com/event. It happens Thursday April 16th at 11:30 AM Eastern Time and goes through all the way up to 4:00 PM Eastern so check that out.

9:10 Interesting, I just noticed it says Eastern daylight savings time. So yeah, that daylight savings will have happened by April 16th. Also cool to see that Pod Fest Expo is coming back to Japan. This event combines a large scale creator marketplace with a conference program bringing together podcast creators, listeners and industry professionals for a 2 day celebration of podcasting. That is a paid event. It is in person May 9th and May 10th and that is happening in Japan. Of course, I also have to share with you that Empowered Podcasting 3 is coming this summer. That's our very own community event. It's an intimate, community driven conference happening in Charlotte, NC that brings together indie podcasters, creators and industry leaders for two days ish. Probably 2 1/2 is probably more accurate of connection, collaboration and growth.

10:11 It's designed to foster real relationships and practical momentum. It it blends inspiring conversations, hands on learning, and meaningful networking into one powerful experience. BC did you have something? By the way, it's August 21st through 23rd empoweredpodcasting.com to get your tickets today. Did you have something? BC man, when you said that it was apparently so easy to get free tickets for a Podcasting Made Simple, it took the wind out of my sails a little bit because I so enjoyed. Give me my personalized invite last night from Alex for the free tickets of Podcasting Made Simple and now I don't feel special no more. You're still special to us. Why are you going to start off by Wednesday like that, Mark?

10:53 I got one too, so I mean I feel just as special. Alex, this is not about you. It is about me. It's all about me, always. And I, I got to say, I don't know that I got 1. And here I LED with that, saying my friend Alex Sanfilippo. So there you go. I thought he was our friend, evidently. So check out all of those fine events and especially Empowered Podcasting 3. We'd love to see more of the community joining us in Charlotte the weekend of August 21st. All right, now this is going to be different. We're going to get to Ralph's.

11:38 Well, actually, what I should do is this quick tip. Smart move, yeah. Content. Creators business bite So what we're going to do here? Give me a moment because Ralph prerecorded the this business bite. But first, let me tell you that it is brought to you by the guy who is about to host it, Ralph Estep Junior of Content creatorsaccountant.com. And as you may know, Ralph is a licensed accountant and also my accountant with over 30 years of experience at contentcreatorsaccountant.com. He helps creators stop guessing about taxes and money, turning financial chaos into clarity.

12:20 Working with Ralph has been one of the best decisions I've made. He's also working with my wife on our Airbnb business that we have and also our personal stuff. He has been such a pleasure to work with, making this super easy for us and as painless as possible. I encourage you to check out his website at contentcreatorsaccountant.com and now. Hey, it's Ralph with your weekly business bike and I saw this article in Yahoo Finance. The article was called Content creation can be a profitable gig. Here's what the IRS wants in return. Now, according to a recent article, like I said, this is a Yahoo Finance content creation can absolutely be a profitable gig. Trust me, I work with clients every day to see that. But the IRS expects something in return. And if you're a creator, this is the part you can't afford to ignore.

13:14 Now this article explains that most content creators, influencers, Youtubers, streamers and freelancers are treated as self-employed. That is a truth. And that means no automatic tax withholding. Like when you have a job, you don't have an employer paying half your payroll taxes. It's on you. Let's talk about what counts as income. Those brand deals, sponsorships, any affiliate commissions and AD revenue. All those things are taxable. But here's the one creators forget. Any free products that you get count too. So if a company sends you a $2000 camera in exchange for promotion, that's income and it needs to be reported that it's fair market value. Even barter deals like trading content for a hotel stay. All those things are reportable.

14:03 And don't think, well, I didn't get a 1099 I talked about that last week. If you make $600.00 or more from a company, they're going to likely send you a 1099 NEC. But listen, even if they don't, you're still required to report that income. Now here's that tax that most creators underestimate and that's self-employment tax. That's 15.3%. That's for Social Security and Medicare on your net earnings. And if you expect to owe at least $1000, guess what? The IRS wants their payments made quarterly in what they call estimated tax payments because taxes are pay as you go. Now here's the good news. You can deduct ordinary and necessary business expenses.

14:45 Things like cameras and lighting, those microphones and even that editing software, and hey, even a portion of your phone and Internet and any travel directly tied to content production. If you've got a Home Office, if you use it regularly and exclusive for business, you can do that. Now, I'm not talking about your everyday clothes and your glam squad. Usually those don't qualify. Here's the deal. Content creation is a real business and real businesses. You got to keep clean books, you got to track your income carefully, you got to save for taxes intentionally, and you got to plan ahead. Listen, profit is powerful, but only if you protect it. And that's your business bite for today. Thank you, Ralph Estep, The one thing that he said there that I just that just struck me, he said, you know, the clothing stuff may not be deductible.

15:33 And I'm wondering if we're doing video podcasting, we're using the clothes where we've got the clothing on. And I would and that feels like, you know, if we're monetizing the podcast, feels like maybe we could write some of that off. So we'll have to ask Ralph about that. But first BC had something. Go ahead BC. Yeah, someone's got to explain the whole like the whole camera parts me. Like I need someone to help me understand how that's income because if someone sends me a $6000 Sony FS100, I don't have that $6000 to use as I as I please. It's already been utilized. It's in the form of this this stationary camera.

16:14 That is what it is. It's not, you know, it doesn't have limitless potential like the plain $6000 would. So how does that work? So BCI don't know all the details, but what I can tell you is what it reminds me of is the fact that say, you know, I I don't know why I'm thinking of this game show, but price is right. We all know the price is right. And if you win prizes on that show, you still have to pay taxes on those prizes that you win. So if you win a car, you got to pay the taxes on that car in most cases, unless they do something special and say they're covering the taxes as well. But any gifts that you receive, you do still have to claim those and pay the taxes on them.

16:57 That's. Why that's now? Again, I'm not the CPA here so I could be very wrong, but I I also saw Alex nodding his head as well. Alex, did you have something? By the way, I see your hands up. I was just about to use the Price is right because my mom was actually on the Price is right happened to her before I was born. She was on The Price is Right and that's how they won their their vacation for their honeymoon. But and. That's how Alex was conceived. No, that wasn't. That was way before me. I'm the youngest of four. But that being said, you know, being a 1099 employee that I am, it is a real problem and withholding taxes is a huge problem. But any gift that you get, whether you claim it or not, I'm not here to say don't claim it, but bartering does have its advantages and its disadvantages. If somebody does send you that 1099, you're obligated to people.

17:52 I mean, the diarist knows. So it just kind of stinks. Yeah, because the the person giving the prize, giving the gift, you would also I guess theoretically have to claim that. I've been in situations where I referee sports and I purposely don't go to certain towns for X amount of time because of that. I can go under that radar and and it's it's a known thing that's $600.00. So it's not like I'm like evading the I just instead of going five times, I might only go three times. In terms of the camera thing, it is a big deal. It sucks. I was just thinking of Billy, 'cause I know he has. A lot of those, that's true. That's true. Yeah. Thank you, Alex. And here's another surprise before BC we we get back to you, Dr. You were on Scrabble with Chuck Woolery. That's right.

18:43 Really. And I won oodles of money. Are you kidding that I'm not kidding that I never did see because right after I taped the show, I. By the way, she said taped yes, keep going. Back in those days, it was you taped the. Show yes. Right after I taped the show, I got a gig to fly off to Japan and and I lived in Japan for like 8 to 10 years. So I never saw the money. But my mom, I had everything go to my mom and it was a hallway full of all the sponsored prizes, the Rice a Roni, the boom box, the RC Cola, the Kleenex, I mean, from floor to ceiling, all of these prizes that I won, plus the money.

19:36 The money kind of went for back taxes for me. So yeah, never saw the money, but I have good memories. We learn something new every so often about each and every one of us. This is pretty cool. Yeah. Let me check in with. Oh, you know what, Jonathan? I wanted to go with to you because I saw in the chat that you were when we were talking about clothing and whether it's tax deductible or not. And you said that you rent your clothing. Yeah, I rent most of the clothing I wear on the on any of my podcasts and any of my videos that say that rental becomes a tax deduction. I asked Ralph about that. A very cool. OK, there you go.

20:16 Well, then there were. I have a silly question. Yeah. How does one rent clothing? Yeah. How do you do that? There's there's a couple. Places that do it, I do it from a place called Taylor and you just you pick out clothing and they send you 5 pieces every time. And you just send it back, They dry clean and everything for you. Yeah, that's really cool. Sid, you had something. Go ahead. Good morning. And my wife and daughter do this. They rent clothes. My daughter uses a company called Rent the Runway and my wife's been starting to do it when she needed to go to a cocktail party or something or an event or something. Rather than go buy a cocktail dress or you know, a couple 100 bucks, she can rent one for 20 bucks and then wear it and then return it. So it's actually a really, it's a really cool service and you just pack it.

21:05 They send you a bag to ship it back in that's postage paid and you put it back. When you're done with it, you put it back in the bag and mail it off. Very cool. All right, well, we learn. We're learning lots of new things today. We haven't even dug deep into the news yet, so let's keep it moving. And thank you to Ralph. Those business bites always seem to create some kind of conversation and we never know what direction it goes into. But yeah, very cool about the whole clothing rental thing. By the way, a good morning to Co host Matt Bliss who has joined us on stage. And a shout out to everyone in the audience, Mike, Austin, Jen, Tim and DVDVI.

21:47 Know you wanted to come up here. And we have this rule. It may be silly to some, not to others. If you're not being followed by if. If you're not, we're not following each other. If we don't know you at all, we're a little hesitant and it's not on. I do know him. You do. OK. Well, that's so I just wanted to say the reason why D, we had DV go back to the audience is because in the past, sometimes we get burned when we bring up somebody we don't know and they disrupt and really throw off the show. So the fact that Alex can vouch for you, I've invited you back. I'm so screwed. Now I know it's going to be like a mess now. Victoria is Victoria is the great. Alex has to go.

22:28 He knows. He knows Nikki as well. OK, cool. Well, welcome DV. Yeah, we're talking about the tax thing about receiving promotional items or whatever. I'm not a tax person, but I would say creatively, you might have a conversation with your tax person and see if there's some kind of structure, like if you had like a small trust or something else that would receive the item, not you directly. And so therefore there might be something that it could be quote UN quote sent to that would then contain it that actually might protect you from having to pay the taxes on it. But then obviously you would use it or maybe you would rent it or something like that. So that might be a creative way to ask your accountant. Is there some structure that you can set up outside of yourself? Yeah, great point, DV, Thank you. Appreciate that.

23:22 And I would say go to let me make sure I say it right before I butcher it, Content creatorsaccountant.com and support our Ralph E step. And you can ask him those questions as well. All right, so I'm going to keep things moving. And this one I teased in the intro. With all this hype around Apple and adding video this spring, the question that continues to be bounced around the industry, has podcasting become a video first industry now? And by the way, this is a credit to Pod News for sharing this story late last week. With all this noise about Apple and video podcasting, you'd think we officially crossed into a video first world.

24:10 And look, I get it. Video is exciting, it's engaging, it's it even helps or at least seems to help with discoverability. Although I really think it's not about the video that helps with discoverability. I think it's YouTube specifically that helps with discoverability. In other words, they just have a really great algorithm that can get your content out, at least I'll just say better than a platform like Apple. But let's all take a deep breath here because according to new US data from Triton Digital, only 7% of people exclusively are watching podcasts. 80% of podcast listeners both watch and listen. That's a big distinction.

25:00 Audio is very much still in the game. And like I said, this does come from Triton Digital and it their 2025 podcast report and it is available as a free download with registration. So check out Triton Digital if you want to dig into that even more. It's also worth noting that Triton's Omni Studio was a launch partner for Apple Podcasts new video service last week. So yes, video matters, but audio is not going anywhere. The take away for me is pretty simple. Don't abandoned what works just because something new is getting the headlines.

25:41 Podcasting has always been about meeting your audience where they are, and right now they're still very much listening BC did you have something? Just because all these different platforms are working hard to expand and reposition themselves as the end all be all solution, it doesn't actually detract from the comfortability that the audience has in their preference of receiving the content. So that's why audio is still going to be such a large Ave. for podcasting. But also, I'm, I have somewhat of a concern for some of these platforms that are making this, I think very vanity based decision to expand into podcasting, Netflix or Apple, whatever it is. Because, and I talked about this actually yesterday on on sub stack where the market is getting stricter over time to where making decisions based on vanity or trying to do things for the sake of doing things to try to keep up. It's not going to produce the same kind of results that it used to the markets moving towards this place where unless the execution has a very strong strategy behind it, then it's not going to you're not going to see the same kind of profits or the same kind of success.

26:57 So I'm a little worried that these pivots, which to me seem very, again, vanity based, are going to kind of be potential downfalls for these platforms. Quite possibly, yes. I'm with you there, BCI. Was rolling my eyes when you first talked about this because it's like how many times we have to talk about this. But you know what it comes down to this audio's never going anywhere because that's where the money is. And you know, when you're sick, you like your comfy cow, you like your comfy clothes, you want your special, whatever your chicken soup or whatever else. And that's the way I, I kind of consider audio podcasting, so to speak. You know, people are on the road, they don't always have the stream connection. And at the end of the day, what is it about?

27:38 It's about that connection with the audience in terms of hearing. If you look at audiobooks, audiobooks are through the roof and it's just another form of that. I love what BC said, but I'd like to hear what you need and Dr. have to say 'cause they're in it more than I am. Thank you Alex. It almost looks like by the wayside note, if anyone's watching the video, it looks like Alex has a light Saber because he's using what I believe is Azure MV7 which has that little LED light that blinks every time you talk. I know it's the most annoying thing in the world and the way my my setup is so bad I need Janae to actually come to my house. It is so bad.

28:19 He's not too far away and. Let me also add what's really the worst about having this sure mic is that there's now another button you've got to hit to make sure that you're not on mute when you're trying to talk. Yeah, I've done that too. And you've you've told me that like 4 times when it turns red. Yeah, yeah, Janae, Speaking of, did you want to add something? What I love is these platforms are going to keep coming up with sharing the value of video, sharing the value of what they think is going to bring the people. I also have to see that there is a huge transition happening from production, movie production studios, TV production studios to podcasting as well. So the same kind of people who are running these big podcast production studios are now coming into podcasting, which means that they're bringing that same analogy of, oh, this is this is the best thing since sliced bread. Now, audio is always going to be most important because no matter how much video you throw out there, you still need audio to drive that conversation in that video. So absolutely, I love, I love what's happening. It just goes to show that podcasting is becoming mainstream.

29:33 It's almost legal. Does anyone wonder if that, well, when the day comes where all cars are self driving that that'll change as far as audio versus video preferences with podcasting? Because theoretically you could have a video podcast on. You probably won't, but at least who knows how the rules would change over time. But at least initially, you probably still like today, you have to have your hands on the wheel. You still have to look forward. But you know, maybe then as as this becomes more mainstream, then people could start watching things in their car while. They're building. Funny that you mentioned that people are already watching YouTube shorts. Instagram Shorts.

30:18 Netflix. All sorts of shorts on their phones, in their cars. Well, yeah, but they're. Watching porn Excuse. Me what? Dr. That's that's between you and yourself. I want to know nothing. About you and you. Sorry, sorry, Reflect. But I will say, I know I listen to a lot of YouTube videos, but they're more like podcast type stuff as I'm driving and I'm not watching it. I'm literally not watching it. It's just he has a really good conversation that I want to hear. Fair. Anyone else want to chime in before we move forward? Has her porn addiction that she wants to talk about. All right, Oh, Dr. you did actually have something, but not your porn addiction.

30:59 Yeah, not my porn addiction. So this is going back to the conversation of spreading into Netflix and Hulu and all that. As long as there are multitaskers, audio will always exist. And we talked about it last week that once you move into that stage of podcasting that ring, your free speech is going to be monitored. FCC. Thank you, Dr. Let's go to Sid. I hate to be the contrarian here, but I could care less at Apple's launching video and I'm an audio first platform or, you know, show with a video component.

31:40 I think people are talking about this way too much. It's, I don't even know if it's out yet, but good gracious, you would think that the podcasting world was talking about something like immigration the way that people are going back and forth on this topic and love it, hate it, blah, blah, blah. The only thing that I'm really going to say about this is Apple. Hear me fix your analytics before you launch any more products. We. Cannot grow our shows unless we have accurate analytics and your dashboards are screwed up and we as a community that use your platform to distribute our content need you to get your shit together. Amen. This is the the spiciest episode of podcasting morning chat ever. Not that we haven't dropped S bombs here and there, but and by the way, you're not being the contrarian Sid, because I believe the way I just shared this article. Yeah, this is basically saying stop worrying so much about video because audio is still the leading way that people are consuming a podcast.

32:37 But unfortunately, Apple doesn't care about us. They've never cared about us. They do whatever they want, and then we have to pick up the pieces, which is really kind of sad. And I'm with you. I'm with you 1000%, Sid. But yeah. And especially. His point about the analytics, I'd love to see. Yeah, that's. What I mean, they don't care. Yeah, Matt, you had something. Go ahead. I want to reframe this a little bit and it may help ease people's frustrations a la Sid. Just that I've been on LinkedIn a lot. I think it's becoming a problem. But for the amount of posts that I see from non podcast people talking about this Apple video podcast announcement and how many different ways people can prompt AI to talk about what they had for breakfast and how that relates to video podcasting and how Apple is getting it for the first time in all recorded history, I get sick of seeing it. So I'm the same as the rest of you, but the important thing that everybody forgets as soon as we get into the podcasting circle like we are here on this podcast, I hesitated on podcast there community.

33:45 While we're in this community and with podcast prevalence growing exponentially still, not just listeners, but people who create podcasts, there is a lot of obsession with announcements like this to try and change the direction of the entire ecosystem, thinking that everybody, every single person who's involved in it, every stakeholder has the same investment in it. But the same divide existed 20 years ago as it does today. The listener is different to the podcaster and what happens with the listenership is that we get fed back stuff like that Triton stuff you started with Mark, where we hear about listener behavior and that behavior reflected from what we've done. We're getting very top heavy with the amount of people who want to influence the podcast industry by activating potentials that then lead to influence and then action which is both not justified, not evidenced, and invariably it just makes us all frustrated like we are here now. And I think that framed frustration shows itself through RSS zealots.

35:12 We have video acolytes, we've got our invading YouTube coaches who are probably who I think should be panicking a little bit with the idea that there might be video podcasting distributed by a platform that doesn't have an algorithm which allows them to sell their dark art of divination in terms of making podcast content findable and recommended. But it's all potential. This is a problem that's been happening with the social media reels. No end of people have been talking about the incredibly low conversion of social media, real impact for podcast listens.

35:53 But still, we have so many services that are being sold to people because they cannot be discovered unless they have a social media strategy. And Jonathan, I know you're probably listening to this. You're going, Matt, stop stepping all in my Serial. I don't like it. But at the same time, we have to admit that there's a problem where it's in the proliferation of AI and people seeing a potential niche to sell a product. It's not from a justified reasoning that something is effective and that people are asking for it. My point is our heads are too big talking about potential, which is not action and it's not results.

36:38 Yeah, look, maybe it's also because there aren't a lot of other new things to report. That's everybody just latches on to the fact that Apple's going to start adding video and that's all they're talking about now. And to Sid's point earlier, could you imagine if Apple actually, instead of announcing video, they announced a brand new, not just analytics, but brand new algorithm that would actually work in competition to YouTube, right? If Apple could actually do something, and Spotify for that matter, too, if they could do something that that helps our content be more discoverable the way that YouTube does, this would be a, that would be a really exciting conversation to have.

37:20 So who knows? But yeah, this is not the the whole point again here is that I think that we need to just focus on what's working well for us and stop chasing all those shiny objects. I am with you 100%. Matt and Janae, you wanted to add something. Go ahead. We're all thinking that HLS is something brand new. Well, I was, I did some research, so it's been around since 2009 and here's some of the major platforms that are already using HLS. And let me just stop you real quick, Janae, and just say HLS, that's going to be the delivery method to distribute your video content on Apple, correct? Correct.

38:01 So today nearly every major platform like YouTube, Netflix, Apple TV Plus, Disney, Zoom for playback, Twitch, most podcast video platforms are already using HLS. Is it a native streaming platform format that Apple standardized back in 2009? So again, this technology had been around and others have been using it in their software. So the only announcement is that, hey, we are now supporting the same format we created in our own platform. And that's the only news thing that they're talking about, which they hadn't in the past. So just to say this is a brand new technology that that's going to change everything is not going to work. And on the point where you were saying, you know, what if Apple came out and said, hey, we're creating a brand new algorithm. But here's the thing about algorithms. Algorithms are designed by software company that have users using their platform for free.

39:03 Let me repeat, that algorithm is created by software companies that have a platform where the users are using the platform for free. Apple's main product are their hardware devices. They just want you to buy the new iPhone, the new iPod, the new iPad. Those devices are what they're selling. They don't care about the algorithm. That's on you, right? So, and that's what they're doing. They're they're introducing newer technologies or bringing in technologies into their own software so that people stick around into their to bice it and I can't hit find the mute button.

39:44 But thank you so much. You're welcome, Janae. Thank you. All right, Matt, I'm going to give you the final word and I'm going to ask that we keep it sure and sweet because we want to try to get to a couple more stories. Go for it. As Janae said there, that is the news. It may not be new, but it's the thing that's going to change podcasting now. In a conversation I had on LinkedIn with with someone particular who linked to James Cripplin's. Big analysis of the entire announcement, which is excellent. The way that HLS works is going to impact how direct we get our analytics based on an RSS platform. This discussion about RSS and not using the alternative enclosure, it's null and void. You'll see a lot of that out there. A lot of people are posting it's not using RSS, it's it's Apple doing their own thing.

40:33 It's about setting the stage for what I am optimistic about is an idealized version of a video podcast paradise that isn't incentivized by these free platforms with algorithms that intend to gather users so that they can make money off the back of it. And tying that to something obscured that recommends things and you can only get recommended if you do these certain things. We've been trying to shove a podcast shaped object through a YouTube hole for the last 2 1/2 years to make video podcasting work. But I think what Apple Podcast has kicked off here is what is going to solve that for us and make native video podcasting as a format its own beast instead of trying to turn every podcast into a YouTube video. Thank you, Matt.

41:20 Great conversation. And I yes, it's true that it is a conversation that's been had over and over and over again in the industry and I appreciate having it here as well. So thank you all for indulging and let's go to BC with some entertainment news in the podcasting world. Go for it BC. So this is brought by podcast news daily Conan. O'Brien says podcasting made them bigger than late night ever did. And for me, reading that headline alone, them's fighting words to quite the degree. So nearly. Five years. By that, it's been five years since his show ended, and he says his jump to podcasting has allowed him to actually grow his audience while also giving him more creative freedom. He says I've had a wonderful time when he spoke with The New Yorker Radio Hour.

42:09 I think I reach more people now than through either through the podcast or doing the travel show. I have all this freedom to be me in different ways in different formats. There's a lot of really beautiful opportunities and I've been having a blast and getting to have types of interviews I never could have had in that old year up in the attic kind of format. He launched the Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend in 2018. But now the show and but the show really took off during the pandemic last year. It's it said that it had amassed more than 660 million downloads since its debut. O'Brien worked on the TV shows Saturday Night Live, of course, in The Simpsons until 93. Then NBC tape brought him over to the late night show and he hosted that until 2021.

42:56 So quite the statement, I feel like. But granted, knowing podcasting as we do and having discussed the freedom that it has as we do when you're not in locked in one of those contracts that we've spoken of, it makes a lot of sense. But I think it's also important to state here that yes, he's got a huge podcast result, but we've got to keep in mind how we've discussed, you know, Joe Rogan in the past as well. They're both anomalies in the podcasting world. So it's, it's not, it's great news for him for sure, especially if he feels that way personally. But it cannot be by any other podcasters in a in a healthy way.

43:38 Do not set that as a standard because they're very anomalous amongst us. They're not starting off in the podcasting room. They're bringing a previously developed audience into a new format. That's fair. BCI, hear what you're saying. That makes so much sense. And yeah, I mean, The thing is, is that, yeah, it's all relative. So we got to put this into context. And yes, he was a star before he ever had a podcast. So of course he's going to, there's a stronger chance that he's going to have big numbers on a podcast. That said, I mean, he's got, it sounds like even bigger numbers podcasting than he ever did in his TV career.

44:20 So it it does still show the power of podcasting. It's just to your point, Yeah, to your point, yeah. We can't look at Conan O'Brien as an independent podcaster and say, oh, that's going to happen to me when I start my podcast. So I now I get why you say these are fighting words. That makes sense, yes. But also even like if we, if we were not to talk about Joe Rogan or Conan O'Brien, even other folks like for instance, Logan Paul, who who he has a show called Impulsive. And I've seen a lot of people want to kind of say like, oh, well, if Logan Paul can do that, I can too. But in a similar fashion, Logan Paul started developing an audience back in the time of Vine. I didn't look at Vine back when Vine was happening. I didn't look at it till long after it was over. But people got to realize it's, it's all pre amassed attention that people are ready to shift to whatever new format that person goes to.

45:13 But no, it's, I feel great. This is great for Conan O'Brien to see the numbers he's got. Clearly this is a very well suited for him kind of format. So I am excited to see where he goes from here. Thank you BC thank you for that story and thank you Dr. for finding that. Let's go to Janae and then we're going to wrap up with some news around the Ambi's that I had teased at the top of the show. And by the way, just a programming note. I think that tomorrow we're going to do a mix of mailbag, but also we have more stories to cover here. So we're going to spill some of these news stories over into tomorrow as well. Janae, what did you want to add?

45:54 I wanted to add about Conan O'Brien seeing the rise of or, you know, getting more famous or more. What's that word that BC used? He's getting more direct attention, I'm guessing because of podcasting. And that's mainly because the podcasting people are actually listen to a person at any given time, whereas when he was on television, they have to have to, they have to actually TuneIn to get that. And if you, if I were to quote Kevin Hart's story, he built that audience, right? That people or Hollywood came after. That's, that's the type of audience Conan brand was able to build with podcasting. And the same thing is happening with our good friend Steve Burns as he launches his podcast.

46:42 How many people showed up for those videos, right? So you got to have two things working for you #1 you got to have a a good marketing team behind you that can market you where whatever you are. So even if you are a solo podcaster, if you can market really well, you can definitely get to that level and be seen with Logan Paul that you mentioned. There's others as well that have stains. Similar thing. Again, it all comes down to advertising the distribution. And how many places are you actually talking about that you're sick of talking about your own stuff. Thanks. Yeah, thank you, Janae. I'm going to keep this moving and go to Dr. for some news coming from last night's AMBI Awards.

47:24 Go ahead, Dr. Right. So they were huge. There are a lot of categories and I've chosen just a few that have some special meaning to us and our listeners. So the winner of the video in podcast now the nominees were Antiques Roadshow, Dark history, Peacemaker, which is like a a sister podcast to the actual show on. Yes, which I finally finished season 1 and I really enjoyed. It so addicted to it I love it. Mainly. Because John Cena showed his little butt butt on the. Very, yes, I did see that. And it's Tina Cena.

48:04 John Cena. John Cena. The others in that nominee is Jamie Kern Lima. The best is history or in history is history. And also the Wednesday season of the Wednesday Show. OK, so the winner was Tales Unrolled. Again, this is for video in a podcast. I chose these because we can look at these and learn from them. The attitude is not, well, if they can do it, I can do it. The attitude should be, oh, I see what they're doing here. OK, maybe I can. Maybe I can try and learn how to do that. The comedy podcast. The nominees were Las Culturistas, Murder at the Patel Hotel.

48:52 Smartless. Oh gosh, I have this so small I cannot see the bald and the beautiful. The pitch with Jimmy Carr, so funny and wisecracker. And the winner is Conan O'Brien again. We're going to be talking about Conan O'Brien again. Here's my favorite category, actually. Best read ad. Who reads ads better? This is something that we can truly learn from. OK. The nominees were Reality Gaze with Maddie and Poodle, Revisionist History, the weekly show with Jon Stewart. We need to talk and also woo woo with Rachel Dresch and begin again with Davina.

49:41 Davina is from the Uki think of her more as a presenter and not really a stand up comedian. I think she's like just a a television personality. The winner, of course, is Conan O'Brien, if any of you have heard him do his ad reads. Yeah, yeah, He does it really, really well. That's so cool. That's what a cool category too. The best indie podcast, OK, the nominees were debt heads, DEBT debt heads, radio Diaries, Stitch, please. Stitch, please. Taboo science, the fight of my life, escaping scam city, worst club ever.

50:25 And the winner is our ancestors were messy. So that's the best independent. Now we have a little connection. This category, I do not know the difference and we have to ask our connection here. Best DIY podcast. This kind of feels like an independent kind of thing as well. The nominees were abandoned. The all American ruins. Black is America. That's our connection, folks. That's Dominic's. That's Dominic. We're so proud of him that he's even in this lineup. Climate shifted culture, kids. The integrated school podcast twice displaced and the winner is redacted history. And again, that's under the DIY podcast. You know, DRI think I was just sitting here thinking about the difference between what and I'm just making an assumption because I don't know how the ambi's are defining it, but the difference between DIY and independent. I think independent could classify as a podcast that does have a team that's financing A-Team, but they're doing it all by themselves.

51:32 They don't have a big company backing them, where as a DIY or is really kind of that, that podcaster that's doing it all on their own, right? They don't make necessarily have the big team and they're you know what I mean? So I, I think that could be the distinction. I again, it's an assumption. Maybe the best interview. Again, this is something that we can learn from. OK, the nominees are all there is with Anderson Cooper. Oh no, look at that name I can't pronounce. OK, well, it's a name that you can't. Yeah. It's called Joe Rogan. Asami Minji JAJ OK doesn't know lives less ordinary on with Sarah Swisher the Oprah podcast Oprah OK we're not kidding with Heidi and friends. I think that's what it is the winner of the best interview podcast is death, sex and money again. Take a listen to these Learned From Them podcast of the year. The nominees are Call Her Daddy, Crime Junkie, Pablo Torre Finds Out, Pod Saves America, and the winner is Wisecrack. So yes, indeed I'm.

52:54 I'm done. Thank you for that, and yes, we are very proud of Dominic being nominated for two different Ambi's, one for Black as America, one for Mental Health Rewritten. Unfortunately, he didn't walk away this time with the awards. But as a lot of us know here, Dominic is a very decorated podcaster, winning multiple dozens and dozens of awards. But, you know, I'm sure he would have liked to have won one or two of those. I think if he had won both, he would have been the first ambi winner to have won in two different categories in the same year. So that would have been nice for him. But we're still super proud of Dominic Lawson and check out his shows if you're interested. OK, so as I said, tomorrow we're back 7:00 AM Eastern.

53:36 We're going to dig into the mailbag and also cover a few more of these stories that we had for you today. So come join us. And you can do that by going to podcastingmorningchat.com. Join us to learn all the different ways you can catch us live or via podcast. O until tomorrow. Make it a great day everybody. Take care.