453. Dissecting a Podcast That Actually Works

0:04 Good morning podcasting Morning Chat Today is Thursday, February 12th, 2026 and today a live podcast evaluation of the podcast Movies in a Nutshell. Real time feedback on intros, structures, transitions and strategy to help every creator level up. So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, bottom left hand side of the screen and share it. However, Clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, please share this with a fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here. Good morning again, podcasting morning chat. Thanks so much for being here.

1:24 I am your host Mark Ronic and currently on the virtual stage we have producer Ashley Feller, Ralph Estep, Sid Meadows, Dr. Fay, Matt Bliss, BC Babbles and Nick Naulback and also Tide tutoring has joined us on stage from the audience once again, love that tide and I'll remind you you can chime in just as much as everybody else that's here on stage. And that goes for Janae and Austin who are here first thing in the morning. Thank you guys for being here bright and early today. We are evaluating movies in a nutshell. And it's a Co hosted movie discussion podcast that promises spoiler free insight to help you decide what to watch and also deeper perspectives on the films that you've already seen. So we're going to do this a little differently than we've done it in the past.

2:17 So one thing that we've received feedback about is the fact that sometimes people feel a little out of the loop while we're talking about things like the podcasts, branding and their logos and other other areas as well. So I'm trying to change this up a little bit. We're going to mainly work with clips now. We've done that before in the past, but we're going to really lean into the clips and start with them right away to bring you, our listener, into this conversation to be more feel like you're more a part of it, right? O let me get you the first CLI. We're going to start with the best place to start in my opinion, their intro.

3:09 Hello and welcome to Movies in a Nutshell with me, Mark Farquhar. Myself, Darren Horn. And I Paul Day, we help you spend less time browsing and more time watching. If you've seen the movie, we'll reveal what you might have missed. If you haven't, we'll give you a quick spoiler free breakdown. We've got behind the scenes trivia, including Paul's Facts of the Day. Host ratings and our legend league table. Plus, your chance to choose a movie. So grab some popcorn and let's jump into this week's movie. All right, there you go. There is the intro. So I'm going to ask our fine team here. What did you notice? What did you understand about the show? How did that intro work for you? All right, let's go to BC first. Go ahead BC.

3:52 Definitely gave us the classic film reel kicking up engine from the high part of the theater to help us know that we're in a kind of a almost a vintagey feel kind of space. Definitely feels like for the run of the show you're kind of in a pub in the back corner, you've had a nice little quiet table to have a cool little chit chat with your buds. So I think it really sets a nice little kind of convenient tone for the show, 100%. Very cool. OK, Thank you. BC I agree with you. I do want to talk about that, that very beginning at some point as well with the sounds like film projector and the music, which I feel like is something from like a Bill Murray movie. And I can't quite put my finger on it, but maybe we'll play it again.

4:33 Well, we'll hear it again in a moment. Sid, you wanted to chime in as well. Yeah, I really enjoy the energy of that clip. It gets you kind of like excited. The vibe of it is really good. It's quick, it doesn't linger on. And so I think the overall. Energy of that is really good. Agreed. And Ashley also wants to give some input. Go ahead, Ashley. Good morning. Same here, I really enjoyed the conciseness of it. They don't be in around the Bush. They get right to it. Agreed. What I wrote here, my notes here, is that I loved, and similarly to what Sid was saying, I loved the fast-paced way that they presented it. They clearly described the mission of the podcast. It was straightforward and to the point. And somehow I even felt like I was starting to feel their personalities coming through a little bit. Like I felt like even though that was the first time I ever heard them, there was just something comfortable, something familiar about their delivery.

5:31 One thing that I just alluded to a moment ago that I didn't love, and I want to be clear, not a deal breaker, not something that I think is going to kill their show or anything. Is that music with the film projector at the beginning? That whole thing lasts like 10 to 12 seconds and it feels to me like it's kind of just shoehorned in there. I would maybe talk over that a little bit. So like maybe you hear that film projector reel in and then you got that music playing. And as that music's playing, that's where I would maybe personally bring up, you know, that's where I would start the intro. Go ahead, Matt, I see you want to chime in. Good morning. I don't disagree.

6:13 They could probably structure that intro a little bit better. It's clear, as we'll probably hear talking about the episode later on, that there are things they mentioned in the intro that don't happen in this episode. The thing that became immediately clear to me is that it's a canned intro. Maybe they don't recall that every single time, but as you say, it's not a deal breaker for me either. The refinements are important. The key giveaway from me that I didn't hear the first time actually is that I heard a lot of plosives in from the hosts in the audio, which tells me after listening to it and not hearing any plosives at all. That would also be the indicator that it's probably an intro that's been done a little while ago and not immediately, but as we'll hear later on as well. It's very difficult to differentiate between the quality of this intro compared to the rest of the episode. But that warm, rich tone from the post production and the microphones they choose for their own voices. I think that that's what you picked up on as well, Mark. I actually saw a bit of neuroscience research or heard about it on a podcast or something that there's something about that particular zone, Goldilocks zone of, of male voice that sets a certain brain wave pattern that makes you relax into it a little bit.

7:29 And I think all three of them have a voice that's very similar for that. All three of them have a very similar voice in general that. Might be a bit of feedback later on too. Like I was like they said all their names there, but I I had trouble telling who was who. I thought there was four people on it for a little while and then there was 3. But anyway, we can talk about that a bit later on. So Matt, Matt mentioned the word plosive. And so I feel like that is a wheel of jargon word and would love, Matt for you to define that for maybe some of our listeners who don't know what plosive means. So plosive is an audio term when one is using a microphone and it's denotes a certain type of sound that's made. It's often a disruptive sound.

8:15 It's not a nice one to hear, but when one makes a sharp P sound, particularly depending on the matter of 1's speech, similar consonants to P can also 'cause this, but that sharp P has a very sharp popping noise in the microphone itself, reflects in the audio, and is is like a disruptive pop. I'm about to demonstrate it with a a sentence, but Peter Piper picked a Peck of pickled Peppers. Yep, I hear it. That's full plusive action. So let's talk about how to avoid the pluses. Microphone technique is perfect for this. Before I mentioned the thing that you're all thinking of first, I want to say that having your microphone off axis to avoid doing your breath is the most important thing.

9:03 People say 45° but whatever angle it is that ensures that your breath entering the microphone is avoided. If you, like, hold your hand in front of your face right now, listener, and start going poo, poo poo, you'll feel the pressure of that air on your hand and you don't want the microphone in the position that you feel that pressure. So whatever position you move the microphone in should not be at least close to it can be around it, but as long as the air's not going into it, then you're good. There are also windscreen devices that you can get that can catch these plosives. It's probably important to mention that a pop shield is different to what the industry would call a dead cat, but you can use them both together.

9:47 So the pop shield is that little circular or square bit of fabric, sometimes metal, that catches or redirects the air from your mouth. It sits in front of the microphone as a like a bit of a guard to stop that air going through. The dead cat thing is what wraps around the microphone like it's a microphone cover. That doesn't perform as well as the pop filter most of the time, but it does do something. OK, there you go. Who knew we were going to get such a good lesson today in plosives? And I want to keep things going if you don't mind. I know that Ralph and BC you were looking to chime in, but I do want to keep things going so that we can really get into this episode.

10:32 And I should have said this is I guess I haven't ruined anything yet. This particular episode of Movies in a Nutshell is all about The Matrix, the movie, The Matrix. And one of their promises that they made, if you heard that intro, is that they do this in a spoiler freeway. That's their claim. And they're doing it to help you decide whether or not you want to get into that movie. And I know Ashley ended up watching The Matrix for for the first time because of this episode. So we're going to get into it. This is the clip that immediately follows the intro.

11:13 OK, here we are, first episode of 20262026. Where's my hoverboard? The Matrix, 1999. I remember this coming out in 1999. I remember. Oh, wait a minute. See it? I think I was working in a pub called Kitty Rohan and an Irish bar. And I was working in a cinema for the summer. Oh, so I was in the cinema while the Matrix was out there on the cinema. Actually, I may be in a manager in the theatre. Actually, no, I think about it, but I remember I, I, I was trying to date someone. I used, it doesn't matter. I used to work, I definitely worked in an Irish part called Kiss Your Hands. But 1999, I'm sure I was working in the theatre because I remember the millennial thing happened. And then, yeah, in 2000 I went to Australia in Southeast Asia. I was 18, so yeah, I'm vividly remember.

11:55 Obviously, I didn't know much about it. I was barely seven. I was barely 16. What a summer. Austin Powers two Star Wars Episode 1, The Matrix and you eat Chrome. So we're in Part 1, which is the nutshell where we break the movie down spoiler free to help you decide if it's your kind of movie. So how do we break the Matrix down? How do we explain it for someone who's never seen it? OK, there you go. So what are we picking up on specifically about the hosts? Any feedback regarding this part of the conversation that they dove into? I have some, but I just wanted to 1st see if anybody else wanted to chime in. Yeah, Sid, go ahead. And to me, it's obvious.

12:35 They have a relationship, they're friends, they're very casual with each other, like they very comfortable with each other. They know each other. At least it appears that way. Like it's 2 old friends chatting about something. Yeah, I'm with you there. And I think that in my opinion, that really helps get the listener comfortable and it helps to start to build that trust. And I say to start because we're all all here, all of us. We are new to this show and it feels very welcoming. It feels like, yeah, we're getting into the middle of a conversation or getting into the beginning of a conversation with a few friends. And I personally love that they are sharing how they relate to this movie. Right.

13:19 They're they're giving us their backstories about the movies. But I'm going to bite my tongue because I know other people want to chime in. I'm going to go to BC and then I'm going to go to Ralph. Go ahead BC. I love the fact that they were talking about where they were in relation to the release of the movie. You know, if I were to do the same thing, I would say I was enjoying the they mentioned Star Wars Episode 1. I was enjoying the the Droid themed Pepsi's coming out of the time as part of the promotional campaign. So I love they help set the stage that way. It's a really great way to break ground and to really bring people in to realize, oh, this will be a nice chill convo. But then you realize as they get in, we'll get into that how really in depth they're prepared to get into regarding the state of things in the movie industry when they start off.

14:03 Great feedback BC Ralph, what do you got for us? So we talked the other day about the curiosity loop. One of the things that I think they do really well here is the nostalgia loop. And I think that if you can build that into your content, it is super effective. Because if you can take people back to a time they feel their emotions around something, that nostalgia is huge and people really lean into that. So I think that that's one of the things they're doing super effective here because I start thinking about, OK, in 99, I was doing this, I was doing that. You start to put yourself in that mindset. And if they hadn't done that, I don't know as if they would have been as effective in getting me ready to think about this movie. Because honestly, that was probably the time I saw that movie. Hadn't thought about it since.

14:44 So for me, it took me back to 99 and I was working in IT at a credit union. I was worried about the year 2000 flipping over and everybody's accounts being gone. And so it really set the tone for what turned into be very enjoyable listening experience for me. I think that's a great point. That idea of getting nostalgic with your audience, I think can go a long way. People do eat that up. I mean, go look at some social media accounts that you say. Like for me, I'm always fed a lot of Gen. X accounts because I am Gen. X, right? And I often stop at their content because whenever I see maybe it was an old toy that I played with, or maybe it was one of the first computers I ever had, which I guess was one of the first computers, period.

15:29 Those kinds of things stop me in my tracks. They make me think and they make me remember. It feels nostalgic. Like Ralph is saying, Matt, you wanted to add something. Go ahead. Just the the subtle thing they do there, probably not deliberately, but they set their audience very intentionally there, like they're saying to the person listening. I'm the person who was this age when this movie came out in 1999. And that can set not just that nostalgia feel like being related to a similar experience to the listener, but also that they know what kind of opinion they're going to get, the kind of cultural area they were in at the time of enjoying it. And the thing that I really like about it, again, pushing towards a little bit further on in the episode, is that one of them talks about being a teacher of media. And towards the end, it also feels like they're directing some of their content to a younger audience who is seeking to learn more about media.

16:32 So I think catching the older crowd at the beginning that have a an experience that they can forgotten the word now, but sympathetically enjoy from an experience they remember, but also addressing the content of an old film for a younger audience who want to enjoy it as we did. They walk that line really well. It's really interesting. Thank you, Matt. OK, anyone else have any thoughts on what I'm calling the intentional small talk at the beginning of their episode? And I really do want to emphasize that for a second, right? Because I think there is a place for small talk. I think that it does help, like I was saying earlier, it helps build some trust, but I think that it has to be intentional.

17:17 It can't just be, oh, you know what a beautiful day it is today, right? I mean, it can, right? But at the same time, I like how they are directing their small talk about the actual thing that they're talking about today on their show. Oh, Sid, do you want to say something? I'm actually a big fan of intentional. Small talk for lots of. Different reasons. I think it also helps to break the ice with the guest if you're got a guest that you're interviewing and it kind of just like. I think helps to. Set the tone. But for me, what I do is is if I'm going to guess that I know I talked for a minute about maybe where we met or how. Long. Ago we met or you know something like that to bridge the gap of so the listener knows that we have a little bit of a relationship hey we worked together 10 years ago or. I met Mark at at at a podcasting conference and we became friends.

18:05 We were talking about this just something like that to break the ice A. Little bit to. Make the conversation a little bit. Easier for the listener so they understand that there is a relationship. Yeah, and such a great point said especially, like you said, with guests, because not only does it help the guest feel more comfortable, it helps the audience get to know the guest and feel more comfortable with that person. So yeah, great point, Nick. Go for it. I actually. Wanted to comment on what Sid was saying because as he was saying that, I agree. I really like the small talk in podcasts, but it has to be certain types of podcasts, like something like this. It's an entertainment podcast. You're just kind of listening, tuning in, just kind of enjoying the conversation. 100% agree. But I also listen to a lot of business podcasts and self help podcast, things like that.

18:54 I just want you to get to the point. I don't care about the small talk. I don't care about all the little behind the scenes details. I just want to get the information and go about my day. So I think it definitely. Varies. Depending on the type of podcast you have, and I think in entertainment podcasts like this plays really well into the small talk idea. That's a great point, Nick. I think it does matter depending on the type of podcast that you're doing. You may, you know, the first type of podcast that might come to mind is there was a podcast that I used to produce at Ironic Media and what and it was a medical, it was actually a business slash medical podcast. It was helping medical professionals go out on their own and do entrepreneurial things. I'll just I'm just trying to keep it simple here. And the that's one that I think that audience doesn't want to sit there and listen to small talk. They want to get right to it.

19:49 They're super busy, right. So you do have to know your audience. Thank you, Nick. Let me set up this next clip here. So this is just a quick one that I don't know necessarily that a lot of you will have anything to comment on, but listen to how they handle a reference to a past episode here. People can get quite heated about it because I'll say things that like Star Wars isn't a cycling film and Alien isn't. But as we know, because we did the episode, we did, we did. If you want to hear that, go on us to the Alien episode. This is science fiction, and So what I mean by that? So I love that they do that, right. It's like, oh, well, we talked about that very movie and you can hear what we had to say about that one on that episode.

20:33 Now, what they didn't do, as far as I could tell, I get it on the spot. Oh yeah, we did that episode. But they may not remember off the top of their head what episode number it was or you know, how where to direct you in that moment. And clearly that they wanted to keep things moving. But where I think they failed because I looked, I didn't see a link in the show notes to it. So you got to make sure that if you're going to want to direct your audience, let's make it as easy as possible to where they have to go. Look, this podcast, I think you'll learn as we continue here. I think the majority of us have a lot of good things to say about this podcast. So really, I think most of the feedback we're going to have today is to help them Polish up what they're already doing. Well, OK, we have several people I think that want to chime in. I'm going to go to Ralph 1st and then check in with Matt. Go ahead, Ralph.

21:26 Good morning again. I'm glad you played that clip because it reminded me of something when I listened to that. And I don't know if I was the only one that had a difficult time with the language a little bit from understanding what they were saying. One of the takeaways that I would have if they slowed down just a little bit because they got into this back and forth banter, which there's a little bit of an accent. I don't mean that being derogatory in any way, but it was difficult and me for times to keep up with what they were saying. And I think if they would just be a little more intentional and slowing their language down and putting in some pauses and listen, I'm learning this myself, so this is very appropriate for me. But if they would do that, I think they would be more effective that that's really the only well, I'll use the word negative that I have with the whole episode is I just felt like it was rushed. But it was cool that the conversation was great. But if you're not in their little clicky kind of that that vernacular that they're using, it was sometimes hard to keep up with that mark.

22:23 And that clip actually brought that out so that I just wanted to make sure I mentioned. That that's a fair comment. And it's something that I think, like you said, it's might be something they don't even notice because that's just probably the way that they talk, right? But yeah, if you're trying to appeal to a larger audience than, say, wherever you're from, I think you have to think about those things. Yeah. Let's try to slow this down a tiny bit. Go ahead, Matt. This is the point in this episode when I need to mention that I have a bit of a not a conflict, but a similar experience. I've been editing episodes for a show that is almost like 90% the same structure as this one, which is why I felt so equipped to, to listen to it and give it the thumbs up that I give it. That podcast is called Podcast Assemble if anyone wants to make the comparison.

23:11 But the the thing about this style of show first, Mark, you mentioning that they mentioned go and listen to the alien episode, but they don't mention an episode number or anything to guide the listener, right? What you'll find most often with these kinds of shows is that they will head up the title with the film or TV show that they're analyzing. And so it tends to be pretty easy to find. Like I struggle to think of a show that reviews movies that doesn't just lead with the title, both for SEO reasons and for other reasons. I think that's why they do that. So I personally, in my opinion, after editing for this podcast, I just mentioned who does the same thing.

23:54 I'm not sure it's overly necessary with this one, but also it could speak to both the transients of the audience. Like if you are listening to an entertainment review podcast that you like, then you'll come back to listen to more, but you may not listen to a review of shows that you don't think that you'll be on board with. So you might have a few other available to you. Like Ralph mentioned there that the lingo and the the language is a bit of a barrier here. So you probably wouldn't want to go for AUK based entertainment podcast talking about films you enjoy. You might go for an American 1 instead. The sensibilities would be very similar, but there is kind of a structure and kind of a layout to this type of show that has probably preempted and created the the style of this show for all of the other places in on the Internet that does the same thing. The the lead in banter getting into into it with the hosts to get that little bit of information about them before they get stuck into the analysis and been getting into the movie wholesale and having that exchange banter that makes them unique from any other review platform in the world. That's the kind of stuff that is modeled for shows that want to follow in the same suit and fall into the same area. So if you went out and looked for a movie review show, you'd probably find it has almost exactly the same format as this. So some of it is likely that small area where they have an opportunity to stand out, and

25:27 that's when the crosstalk comes in. Sometimes when maybe the pacing is a little bit fast. It's a really unusual weird space. Kind of like I mentioned it maybe six months ago, that the video game podcast is a little bit different. It has its own style in the way that it's an entertainment but discussion kind of show. Thank you, Matt. I'm just going to keep things going and I think you said it well, so no need for me to add on to that. OK, This next clip I want you to listen to how they begin breaking down this movie, The Matrix. Paul, what movies could this could be compared to? So I've got a couple. It's a tricky 1. So I've got here's my comparison ones and then see what you think. It's kind of Alice in Wonderland meets Blade Runner. So you got a meets?

26:11 Yeah, I've got another one. Dark City meets John Wick. Oh, that's cool. I have 1984 meets Ghost in the Shell. Oh yeah, that's good too. Because it is very mangary. Yes, like Cyberpunk. Cyberpunk. Yes, Wrapped in a bit of cyberpunk, yeah. OK, before we actually discuss the clip itself, I'm curious, Ashley, being brand new to the Matrix and watching the movie thanks to this episode that we're breaking down, do you like their analogies that they gave their comparisons to The Matrix? Did that work for you? Which comparisons, particularly to Alien? Well, yeah, they and that what they just said. What was it? It was Alice in Wonderland meets. Was it Blade Runner?

26:55 Was that? I think that's what they said, yeah. BC is not in his head. Yes. But just in general, do you think that that worked for you or Because here's here's why I'm asking. I think that this is a clever move, whether they realize that they're doing it or not, because I like how this helps the listener who's never seen it right? Like this gives them at least a taste of what kind of movie this is. I think it's fun. I think it's helpful, and I can even be entertaining for those who haven't seen, who have seen, Excuse me, The Matrix, because I might hear one of their comparisons and be like, no, that can't be. That's not right. It gets me thinking and wanting to either agree or disagree with it.

27:39 So it's keeping me engaged in my opinion. Well it did for me as a listener BC What did you want to add? I love those comparisons that they gave especially with the Dark City versus Dark City meets John Lick, which I think John Lick was a bit meta for the comparison. Considering the cast choice for the movie. I would have hodgepodged a bit and said maybe Alice in Wonderland meets Dark City personally, or even maybe say, oh, I just had it in my head, what was it say like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon meets the Crow almost, you know, just crazy fun. Comparisons like that I think I would have used as alternates for describing the movie, but I think those were great in general. Cool. All right, Thank you.

28:20 BC yes, Ashley, go ahead. OK, now that I understand better, the Alice in Wonderland comparison work for me because I'm familiar, but I've never seen John Wick or Blade Runner either. Ashley, we got to, we got to up your movie game. I think. I think everybody here was shocked when Ashley said, yeah, haven't seen The Matrix yet. One of my absolute favorite movies. Ashley, what did you think of The Matrix? OK, so I think I wrote this in my evaluation, but the podcast helped me appreciate the film a little more. I don't know, maybe it was the mindset I was in at the moment, but I found myself laughing and I asked my significant other Raymond, is this supposed to be funny? And he was like, no, this.

29:05 Is from. This is. From 1999 and it's been spoofed a billion times. You've probably seen all of this in pop culture and you just didn't know what it was. And that's why it's funny. And I I probably agree. I know this is not really part of the evaluation, but I'm just so curious. Ashley, let's do the typical five star review. How many stars would you give the matrix? Oh, I'd give it maybe a 2 1/2. Oh, OK, OK. You know, and that this is also a thing, I think, like, talk about nostalgia. When we saw this movie, even if we saw it multiple Times Now over the years, it might not hold the same weight to somebody who sees it for the first time today. It might lose something in translation. So yeah, that's just something I think about a lot when it comes to like these reboot movies and also movies that have been on the shelf for a long time that people it become this cultural thing.

30:03 Yet if you haven't seen it, you may just not get it at this point. Tide, I saw you wanted to add something. Go ahead. When I heard Alice and What, it immediately brought me back to that nostalgic time where I was watching the Disney movies, but I didn't personally like Alice in Wonderland as a kid. It gave me creepy vibes. And I said, oh, OK, that's that's interesting. But then he combined it with Blade Runner, which is obviously very modern, the holograms and all of that. And I said, oh, that's an interesting take. It but what? Really anchored it down for me because I've not seen the movie The Matrix either. I know the movie, but I've never seen it. But what would have got me to watch it is the reference to 19 84, because now I'm like, oh, it's all about totalitarianism. And that's a topic that I like because I'm very familiar with the book and I know that the book has, you know, it's obviously a movie as well.

30:51 A British on it. Yeah. Thank you, Tide. Great, great feedback there. BC do you still have something you want to add? Yeah, I was going to say for actually, I totally can see how it can be funny because of the over dramatic size. It's for those who haven't seen it, just the over dramatic sized, you know, martial arts movements, which is why I kind of referenced Crouching Tiger. Hidden Dragon has a potential comparisons for outside of the two. That's that the episode gave. But also to Mark's point to how it's been spoofed so much, for those of us who grew up on Disney and who have seen the movie might recall that during the So the Proud Family, there was also a spoof episode of The Matrix in that show. If you didn't watch it when it came out originally, there's definitely a lot of room to point out certain elements that create maybe unexpected emotional responses. So completely valid in that actually I totally see how it how it can be funny.

31:43 Yeah, absolutely. But again, I do want to say a smart segment for sure. Like I think that this is a great way to really introduce this movie to your audience and they do other things like this. This isn't the only, I'll call it a segment that they do. There was another one that they did that. I appreciate it. I don't have the clip for you, but I can reference it. About halfway through the show, they host a segment, I think it's called Facts of the Day, which again, I really appreciate. It's a great way to share what they did, fun and interest, interesting trivia about the movie, but not the not the facts of the actual movie, but the behind the scenes, the things about the actors, etcetera.

32:29 I thought that that's a great way to create curiosity and intrigue for an audience that hasn't seen it yet. Matt, did you want to add something? So that all the bits and pieces that you're talking about assembled into the episode, the overall structure of the episode I think is great that you haven't talked about yet because it's just because you moved on from that beginning section into the next. What Ashley should have done if she hadn't seen The Matrix and was listening to this episode is there was a section where they go, OK, we've talked about the intro bits. We've given you an idea of what it's like. And if you haven't watched it yet, this is the spoilery bit and we're going to talk about more of this stuff later on. And then the stuff they talk about later on. It's not a rehash about the thing that you potentially just watched.

33:13 They don't do summaries. They don't do like rehash old information. They explore it in new ways and they point out things that maybe you missed, things that they're interested in that they do like the the trivia stuff. I mean, The Matrix is a cornucopia of film philosophy, action, acting, trivia in and of itself, but those extra little components that come after the watching of the film and not still dictating the immersion inside the film itself. Having just watched it, I think they they do all those things incredibly well. So that's section you just mentioned there with the trivia. That's one of those bits that does a really good job. Yeah. Thank you, Matt. Appreciate that.

33:55 I know what we're talking about is specific to movie review podcast, but I still think that overall, if you don't do a movie review podcast, I think that you know, understanding the structure, understanding the different segments that they're adding in to keep their audience engaged, to keep providing value. These are things that we can learn no matter what kind of podcast that we do, whether it's movie review or something else. OK, I want to get to this next clip. This is back to the reference that we talked about earlier. I think Ralph brought it up about Y2K. And that was this. Like I say, I think that was very much the selling point. Everyone's like what is the matrix? And it also came out at a good time. Like AI was just starting to be a thing, and we were coming up to the end of the Millennium and everyone thought, I mean, it's hard for particularly teenagers to understand this, but there was like a moral panic that planes were going to fall out the sky and they're all their. Machines were just going to stop working. Exactly.

34:49 The Millennium bug, they called it, by the way, kids. Yeah. And everyone was panicking. This line of code, it was going to end every. Only thing they hung on to is that some digital displays didn't have enough room to go to the extra digit. Yeah, some really old ones. So some people were having to go through and be hired to add extra lines of code or something. Like that, it was crazy. So it was just perfect timing. It was like this touched on, it kind of touched and expanded upon the fears of the time of the zeitgeist. Matt, do you want to comment on that? Just to say that it's one of those moments where they make the audience pivot to recognize that the younger people might be listening and have no idea what Y2K was, that it sat in a very, very preeminent spot.

35:30 And I think it's a good shout out. I think if you list go back and listen to the episode after listening to this, you will understand that The Matrix covers such a breadth of stuff and there being a bit of a teaching background amongst them. I think that's also a moment to talk about a bit of real life history and how it fits in. Very well done I think. Agreed, and that's similar to why I pulled this clip. I think what's important to remember as podcasters is that, you know, our audience, yes, we try to create, a lot of us create that audience avatar, right? We create that one person that we know is the ideal audience member, the ideal community member.

36:14 But let's be real, there are probably other types of audience avatars that we are we want to be catering to as well. So in this case, yeah, these guys recognize they have a younger audience just as much as they have an audience that's probably around their age as well. And I think a lot of us as podcasters, sometimes we get to pigeon holed into one person that we're talking to. You know, Dr. asked me yesterday when I talked about my time with Vanderbilt University and she asked if there were any questions that really stood out to me. And somebody asked me, how do you put on a quality show and still be able to speak to both your new audience and your returning audience? And I, that was, I thought was a great question. And the bottom line is you, the answer is you cater to both. Your regular audience will give you a pass for going back and maybe referencing an inside joke, or they'll give you a pass if if you're speaking to somebody other than them, right? As long as you're still within your, your content bubble, they're going to be OK with it.

37:28 They recognize that you're trying to build a podcast here. And that's why I like sometimes like I did earlier in this show, right? We, Matt mentioned plosives and instantly in my head, I recognized, you know what? We have newer podcasters that listen to this show and we wouldn't be doing them any service by just moving on from that. And look, while we were talking about plosives, our audience here, what do we have maybe 10 or so people live on Clubhouse specifically. Nobody left, nobody got annoyed. So I think what's important is, is that we do recognize, sure we have that ideal audience avatar, but we have to recognize that new people come in, that we have maybe different ages. I think that applies to this show as well. We have all a large range of of different ages from on average from 30 to 50 plus.

38:22 So I've got to keep that in mind too. That's the the big take away for me. I just wanted to further that comment. The thing is, Mark, that's hard though. And especially when you're first getting started because there is a, there's a feeling like, well, I've got to explain what I'm doing on this podcast. I've got to lay out what I'm doing on this podcast and I hear a lot of people that have been doing a podcast for a while and they never left that. I think you have to start to blend in both of those audiences. But I, I know I've gone through that structure myself and it's not easy because there are times when I come back to say, you know what, maybe I'll do a show this week. I do a Daily Show. Maybe I'll do a show this week where I go back to the roots of maybe this is the first time somebody listened to it.

39:05 So it's easy for us to say, hey, go do this. But Mark, the implementation of that from the the Independent podcast canister is not as easy as it seems because you've got to try to balance this thing. And so if you're listening right now, you're thinking, how do I do that? Maybe you don't do it every time, maybe once a week or depending upon your time that you release stuff, you have an intentional. I, I think that's the keyword though, is intentional about, hey, this could be for new listeners. Look at what your topic is as well. And is this more likely to be for discovery and new listeners? But I just think, Mark, we, I don't want to glance over the fact that, oh, that's just easy. We're going to do for both. I just think it's not as easy to do in practice. Yeah, I agree.

39:45 And I think that it is easier than we make it out. I think it's more of a mind game for us as hosts, right? I think we just have to get comfortable with the idea that it's OK to stop, pause and cater to a specific segment of your audience. I think if you're doing it all the time, then that can be excessive and that might turn it off. I think even if you do it once, maybe twice during an episode, that's all it takes. Because now that like, if we're using new listeners as an example, now that new listener thinks, ah, OK, they see me, they know I'm here. They're addressing this. You can't, you can't stop every time, right?

40:26 But if you can show them that you do stop to call them out to cater to them, that I believe goes a long way. I get it. There is that. I don't want to call it fear, but that sense of being uncomfortable, am I doing it too much? Am I not doing it enough? But ultimately, I think that you have permission to do it when you feel the need to do it. Matt, did you want to comment on anything? Just to say that the thing that I'd mentioned from this is that defining your audience doesn't just have to be a single path. That I think movie review shows do approach it differently and they've done it well here where they will weed out the audience as the presumed knowledge being that you're nerdy enough about film that you'd like to hear more about it, that ticks off the rest of that audience. They've shared a nostalgia factor. Good for the older ones part way through. Younger people stick around.

41:17 It's like Ghost in the Shell versus Dark City. They're already wedding out genres people aren't interested in. You know, it doesn't just have to be age group buying habits, that kind of thing. It can also be interests, pop culture zeitgeists, alternative ways to approach the way that you define that audience and recognize it through the content. Thank you, Matt. I want to shift gears real quick. I do have one or two more clips, but I do want to shift gears for a moment because it look, we're doing, if you've been following our podcast evaluation series, we usually start these with the branding stuff. And one of the things I've recognized is starting with the branding stuff may not be super engaging right out of the gate for our audience. And if anything, it creates confusion for our audience. They, we want them to first kind of get to know the show that we're breaking down here before we dig into it. But one area I want to pause here and and discuss and Dr. I'll come to you for it.

42:16 What do we think about the way that they're titling their episodes? Well share what the title is of this one specifically. Yeah, it is The Matrix in a nutshell. I mean, the title of the whole podcast is Movies in a Nutshell. They have every single title. They have every single movie. And by the way, it's I think it's a good note to tell you that they go back very far. I mean, there's it's a wonderful life in here, there's charade in here. I think that is a significant thing to to mention. But they always follow the title up with in a nutshell. And I think that's taking up really valuable property. You mentioned branding.

43:06 I think it goes beyond branding. This goes into discovery, so you have a, you know, a chance for some SEO in here, but if you put in a nutshell after every single title, then I just think it's redundant and it's taking up property. I'm not sure where I fall on that. Like you're making a good point to make me stop and think for a minute. I personally like the in a Nutshell because I think it does speak to their branding, right? If the show is called Movies in a Nutshell, and then they the title of their each episode is the name of the movie in a Nutshell, it it's playing off of the brand, you say it's taking up a lot of real estate. What should they put there instead? I'm not sure right now.

43:49 I, I mean, I haven't given this a lot of thought beyond SEO and stuff like that, but maybe 3 reasons why you should watch the Matrix. Three things that we hated about the Matrix. Something like that. So that's more of a discoverability. It's more you want it to be a little more of a hook than just the title of the movie. I get I that that does make some sense. And when I'm thinking about SEO, I mean, if somebody's searching something about the Matrix, they're probably using the Matrix in there, which I think is helpful when you're using that in your episode title as well. Matt, did you want to say something? Can confirm, just did a Google search for the Matrix in a nutshell and the first thing was Google having a crack at it and Scroll down a little bit and the first one of the 1st results is that episode from their podcast website. But who is really searching for?

44:46 In a nutshell. In a nutshell, in a Google search. Well that's that would be my point. I think in a nutshell is a common enough term for someone looking for a thing to be described in a very succinct way that it falls into like a little cross section of not effective SEO, but good enough SEO that whatever kind of slow adapted algorithm changes have been made for the cultural human language means that it's understood what in a nutshell means. My concern when doing this initial search was going to be that in a nutshell is too broad and that so many people use it that it wouldn't appear.

45:28 But it might be biased by my Google search, me having looked for it on other sites already, cookies, et cetera. But at the same time, the fact that popped anyway, I've had times when I've looked for episodes of podcasts with very, you know, similar terms to other, other shows, other mediums, and they just still don't pop even though I go through it every week. I think the phrase, in a nutshell is something that we say colloquially, colloquial, you know the word. I hate words. I hate words in the morning. They would work for me. That we say to each other, but actually typing out in a nutshell in a search is not something that I would think about doing. Right.

46:09 But maybe others do if that's a more common term in their head. Who knows? That's a fairpoint. I want to make sure we play one more clip. But first, let's go to Ralph. Ralph, what do you got? I just want to make a comment about the title because I think it'd be more impact of what they said, The Matrix and then Colon. What's their big take away? Because if you never watch the Matrix, that wouldn't that wouldn't incent me to watch to listen to this episode at all. If it said something like the Matrix hostile takeover or something that just makes me go, oh, I've never seen the movie, but that's really interesting. I just think use that real estate for that mark because that's going to appeal to both their existing audience and to a future audience. Fair enough and BC what do you got? Going off that real quick, I'll even say use one of the comparisons, say Alice in Wonderland meets Blade Runner breakdown.

47:00 I would also say in this age with the advent of reaction channels as a genre on YouTube being a big draw for YouTube audiences, try to find a way to fit that into your SEO movie review, movie reaction, or in depth discussion to that degree. Get on to that same algorithm. That's a great point as well. I love that. Thank you BC All right, so for this last clip, this is their ending. This is their close with their CTAAKA. I'm saying lots of abbreviations call to action. So let's take a listen to this and talk about it on the other side. So thanks for listening guys. We really do appreciate you guys taking our time from your busy lives to spend some time with us. It means a lot. So if you and if you want to help us, the best way you can do that is to support us just by sharing the show, telling people about it.

47:45 Tell a friend, tell all your movie loving friends about the show. Send them a link, spread the word. And it will curate our content for us. Like if you're just like, Oh my God, I can't believe Dan has chosen the devils work harder. OK, we'll take this Matrix episode, share the out of it. So it does really, really well. And then we'll be like, oh, maybe we should we do more movies like The Matrix? Let the algorithm work for you. Yes, so. So there we go. That's it. This episode is officially over. This is Mark saying goodbye. And it's down and saying goodbye for now. I'm going to hang up this phone, then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. Michael. Yeah, I mean, look, I, I, oh.

48:34 OK, so look, that actually is a great point. That ending just does. It feels again like the very beginning just shoehorn in. And so, you know, it's just they're doing such a great podcast. It feels like they're it's got such a good flow. There's some professionalism to it, yet it still feels kind of casual at the same time. But this just kind of loses a little bit of that Polish. It feels a little bit thrown together. So I would personally either pull that out or figure out a better way to blend that in. It's it's also by the way, the levels are all over the place. They're they're at a certain level, then all of a sudden that music comes in really loud. It's startling.

49:14 One more piece of feedback is that as they start wrapping up that CTA, it kind of looks like they or it sounds like they don't really know how to wrap it up. They're kind of Hemming and hawing a little bit. I would have just cleaned that up. I would have just edited some of that out and made it a little more polished because look, if your listeners made it this far, I want to get them all the way to the very last second. I don't. And there are little things like that that just tells a listener, OK, I can just check out now. So that's some of my feedback there. But I do appreciate the call to action. It was quick. It was a minute or so at the most and it was direct and it also fit their personality.

49:55 It wasn't just a scripted read and I really appreciated that about it as well. BC did you want to give some feedback? Yeah, I was going to say it was nice. As the music video was building up softly, it could have just like felt like flowed out from there and I kind of wish it did. And then otherwise, while I do consider myself an F bomb connoisseur, I will say I didn't have issues with accents earlier on in the show. But right here towards the end, it felt really, really kind of shot off. This was the one point in the show where I was like, yeah, this is where it's hard for even me who talks to people of all backgrounds all the time. I could barely keep up with what they were saying. It felt very unstructured. I was like, this could have been a lot better. Yeah, yeah, I did write down that either to have a script or a an outline for them to really just follow so that it can be direct and to the point and hopefully help them slow down a little bit as well.

50:47 Because yeah, you're right, it did feel a little rushed at the same time at the end and it was harder to to follow. Janae is on stage, so I want to give him a moment. Janae, good morning. Did you want to add anything to this? This was a really great breakdown of the show and they did a really awesome work and you guys did an amazing job breaking it down and telling them how they can Polish it and make it even better. I think the ending was intentional because if you remember in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, most people just watch till the end credit and then Ferris Bueller's comes up and looks at the Brexit 4th walls. Right. What are you still doing here? So maybe that's something that they wanted to do and people who are regular listeners know there's something at the end, so they'll stay till the end, just like we there for all of Marvel movies.

51:34 The thing that might have been intentional, but I don't. Know, I think Janae, I think that's a beautiful idea I it's something that I used to do on my old podcast, the Mork and Lowell show. We called those Easter eggs and our audience got to know that we were doing that and it wasn't something that I often would even talk about. Once in a while we would just to tease it and keep more people listening. Maybe newer listeners don't know yet. So once in a while we will mention the Easter egg is coming or what it might be. But yeah, we do that in our audience is absolutely would hang on to hear what we had to say. Maybe they would skip a little bit 'cause sometimes I would even leave like 10 seconds of silence before the Easter egg.

52:14 That was a great way to keep them all listening all the way through. I will say overall, again, this podcast I think nailed it. I think they did overall a great job. I think there was a lot that we could learn about the things that they did well, and I think there is a lot we could learn about areas that they could Polish up. So I hope this was helpful to you, our audience. I hope that you appreciate our newer format to the evaluation series. I hope you feel like, yeah, you understand this podcast that we broke down and got to enjoy a little bit of it too. So we are back tomorrow, 7:00 AM Eastern live on Clubhouse, YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, all the things.

52:57 If you need that information, go to podcastingmorningchat.com. And until tomorrow, make it a great day everybody. Take care.