#178: Daria Saville on Injuries, ADHD and Tik Tok!

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Daniel Kiernan: Welcome to Episode 178 of Control the Controllables. Today's guest, Dasha Savile fresh off a terrible injury against Naomi Osaka one month ago, that's a third long term injury over the last six years. But if you want to listen to somebody talking with refreshing honesty about the women's game of tennis, you're in the right place.

Daria Saville: I actually am a bit , like, upset, you know, the Netflix show, it's gonna come out and I'm like, got it that you know, like, I'm honest, like I would, I would have loved being in it. And I was like, I was gonna be so honest, I was gonna, like, tell them the whole story. And I'm really excited to see it, but I'm like, please just be honest, like don't romanticise the tour.

Daniel Kiernan: Now at this point, I need to just let you know if you're listening, that there is some colourful language that comes your way throughout this episode. So if you are listening with your kids as you pick them up from school, and you don't want them hearing some of the words that I'm sure they would never hear in the school playground, and just be a little bit careful as you start to get towards the second part of the show. Now Dasha comes with to US Top 20 in the world and her highest ranking, won the Hopman Cup. When she turned Australian the first time she represented Australia with Nick Kygrios in 2016. She is someone who if you don't follow her on social media, do because she's hilarious. She's got a big, big following. She brings an honesty, she brings a comedy value to all that she does. And she really is a brilliant guest. So sit back and enjoy Dasha Savile. 

Daniel Kiernan: So Dasha Savile a big welcome to Control the Controllables how're you doing?

Daria Saville: Oh, my God, your podcast is called Control the Controllables that's literally my coaches favourite like, quote, or whenever, you know, someone says, What's like one advise youre gonna give to someone I say you can control the controllables.

Daniel Kiernan: But why it's this is why it's connected. And if I listened to your interviews, Dasha, and I listened to many of the things that you said, I always massively relate to them. So I think in terms of philosophy, and that's how I want to start actually, I want to start with a quote from Albert Einstein, in the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.

Daria Saville: Yeah, I've heard this before.

Daniel Kiernan:  I hear that this is a big cord of yours that you like that you'd like to bring back to your life?

Daria Saville: Yeah, for sure. I mean, right now, it's tough for me to think that way. Because I'm like, Oh, my God. How many opportunities do I want? But yeah, I guess. I always try to stay positive and find the silver lining of everything. And, you know, I've had my days where I felt sorry for myself, but I get over myself pretty quickly. And I just like, get on with the live because there could be worse things happening to me then. I don't know having an injury. People struggle with a lot more. You know, they have people have more difficult lives than me being a professional athlete or it's struggling with something.

Daniel Kiernan: And on that again, for for those listening, Dasha has almost a month ago now, you know, done a cruciate ligament in a playing against Naomi Osaka, it's her fourth or fifth big injury that she's had over the years and, and I also those listening who listened to the podcast on a regular occurrence, they know that that whole concept of in the middle of difficulty lies opportunity is a big quote that I love and something I think we've all been challenged with during the pandemic the last two or three years. You know, there's, there's whenever something bad happens, there is always something good that comes from it. Now, what's your current opportunity? You know, you've two weeks after you've had had surgery, where's your mind at where do you see the current opportunity? duty for you?

Daria Saville: Well, I thought about a lot of scenarios, but I even had days where I'm like, oh my god, I literally have zero purpose. Like, I wake up in the morning and I'm like, What am I doing? Normally, I would have to be up and get ready for training. And or I'll Well, normally I would be in San Diego right now. But you know, definitely had those days where I'm like, Well, I have no purpose right now, if I'm not a tennis player, and, you know, every time I do get injured, that's where I think of what am I going to do post tennis, and it stresses me out. So here, it's like another opportunity to find something I love outside of tennis, and it's still going to be related to tennis, because I actually really, really like tennis. But I think I'm going to look at doing, I'm still going to keep up my social media, because I actually, like, enjoy creating content and stuff like that. Do you do very well, thank you. And I was thinking of doing not Social Media course. But you know, like the, I just want to learn more how to act in front of the camera, if I want to go that route with doing stuff with media, you know, like, maybe I can do something around Australia and open doing some fun things. And well, we'll see where it takes me but I still need to learn to how to act in front of the camera. And you know, I can act with in front of my own phone, and with the selfie camera, but still need to learn how to, you know, if I want to present something or have my own show one day or something, then I have to get the right skills.

Daniel Kiernan: But I actually yesterday I was it's funny timing because I was watching the I don't know if you follow English football, English soccer, but Gary Neville, who was a famous Manchester United and England player, and now he's a big, big broadcaster. You know, he's big on Sky TV. But he's also done extremely well with property. You know, he's got his own businesses in Manchester in the UK. And I was watching a YouTube podcast interview with him. And he talked about how the best thing that ever happened to him was he got injured for a year and a half. And at the time, he didn't realise that. But I think often when we, when we get older, and we reflect back, we can look at these periods of time. And he talked about the reason that was such an amazing time for him as it's when he learned about property. It's when he started to do media training, it's very similar to what you're seeing yourself. You know, he opened up networks, his mind was a bit clearer. And he can have these conversations that when he was when he was playing professional football Wednesday, Saturday preparing for games, his mind was nowhere near that. And and he's an incredibly successful guy now. And if you look at it, I guess his football career, as your tennis career will be a relatively small period in your life. You know, and, and not all that sometimes when we're in it. It's it's difficult to get to that. But I certainly think in this situation, that is the opportunity. Now, the one thing I do want to ask you, because it is still relatively fresh. September The 19th. You're you're playing in Tokyo, you're playing Naomi, Osaka, you're obviously you've had a great year, you've gone from outside of 500 into the top 50. You know, you've beaten three top 10 players in the world, you've now got a chance to take another scalp and then boom, life's changed. You know something's happened. You probably had a decent idea that something bad had happened when it happened. What's your first thought when that happens?

Daria Saville: Am I allowed to swear on this? Well, obviously the first few words fuck I've done my ACL. I knew straightaway, I knew straightaway. And I was more like worried because it's that I was screaming. I was screaming and I was like, oh my god, I should stop screaming because probably my mom was watching and she's probably gonna freak out. It was the doctor. Like the fees is and the doctor ran out on the court and then the doctor brought the will cheer out the love, like, that's so dramatic get the wheelchair out of the way like I don't, I don't need it, I'll be able to walk. And you know, with, with ACLs, it's, it's kind of, it's different for everyone. But I'm on the Dan my ACL, like I haven't done any other damage. So I was able to walk off. And I was even able to do a few tests where I was able to squat, and I did like the figure eight, and I was able to jump on, on one leg, single leg, I was able to do single leg jumps. And if I didn't know what I've just done, if I didn't have the same experience in 2013, where I tore my, when I ruptured my ACL in my left knee, I would have gone and tried playing because I wasn't that like crazy sore. But then I was like, okay, being mature, like, what are you doing? You know what you've done. So I definitely listened to myself. And I knew in my gut, my gut feeling was telling me that hey, like, just take it easy. And I was pretty, like, I wasn't, I was pretty calm. Like, I was just like, oh, like she'd happens. Here we go again. And that the, in the, in the treatment rooms. They wouldn't tell me straight away that I've done it, even though there is like a test. And it's very, very accurate, that Dr. Japanese doctor was like, yeah, you've done it. And, you know, they, they still wanted to be 1,000% sure that, that it is legit. So they, they I needed to get the scans the next day, but you know, I, I made sure that if anything, I was like, yeah, you've done it, just like gold, do your scans. And if there is a miracle, just so I expected the worst. Like, I didn't want to get my hopes up. Because I didn't want to get crushed the next day where they're like, Yeah, they just want to confirm that you've done your ACL where I was like, Nah, I know. I've done it. And I just, I was like, okay, so I didn't have those, like, really? Highs and lows. I think I I don't know, maybe there's something wrong with me. But I didn't like, I don't think I even had a cry like maybe maybe a little bit. But more because of something else. Not even not even because I was injured.

Daniel Kiernan: Why? Why do you think so? I mean, thats the skill of tolerance. It is I guess it's mental tolerance, you know, the ability to tolerate something accepted, you know, as quickly why, why do you think and is there anything in your life that you think has led to you being so so good at doing that?

Daria Saville: I don't know. I don't think it's a skill. I think it's just how I react to it. I don't think I react. I have a proper reaction to anything traumatic. So I don't know, I guess people are different. But I really, I don't really cry all that much in general. So I don't know.

Daniel Kiernan: So this is, this is the goal. This is the goal of the podcast to make Dasha cry, let's see how we can.

Daria Saville: I only want to cry but like, on tick tock. When I scroll past like those sad videos like dog videos, that's when I cry.

Daniel Kiernan: Well, I'm not going to be doing that. I will I won't do that to you. But in terms of in terms of accepting it, it's one thing but then how quickly are you able to turn it around? It's going a step too far saying that it's a positive, but how quickly you're able to turn it around to being or seeing the opportunity? Like have you been able to do that it's been three or four weeks now have you been able to turn around and and see the opportunity and and you're on the straight and that's the road you're on? Are you still in the period where you're having those days where it's like, God, why is this? Why is this happened to me?

Daria Saville: Um, I wouldn't say like, I haven't turned it into any opportunity yet because I haven't really done anything. But since having surgery I've had the first five days were horrible. I was in a lot of pain. But then every day I'm a little bit better and you You know, I always just focus on the small wins. So I always celebrate the small wins. So every day, I'm better at something like, I can't even bend my knee or straighten it. So every time I can do it a little bit better, that's that's a win. So right now I'm walking. I'm walking with no, without crutches, well, just around the house. So that's a win. So every so I know that this injury, it's, it's, I don't want to jinx it. But it's pretty straightforward. It's just a very long process. But there is there is a process like every day, or every week, you, you tick the box, and you get better. And there's monthly goals where, you know, with when I had the Kilis injury, it wasn't a standard injury. So there was a lot of unknown. And I struggled with that. And I even like said to my team one time, or a couple of times, I said, the ACL injury from 2013 was so much easier. And now I'm like, oh my god, now I've got to do it again. And yeah, but the first few days were honestly terrible. I was in a lot of pain. I was under a lot of pain meds were with my Achilles injury. After surgery, I didn't even take painkillers. Just Panadol.

Daniel Kiernan: And you talk there almost if you forget the subject, you've almost talked a little bit what developing into a tennis player is as well, those small wins that day in, day out, you know, process goals. Have you have you always been a goal setter? Is that something? Can you talk to me a little bit about, you know, what role goal settings played , not just in coming back from injuries, but also in your talent in general?

Daria Saville: Well, I was always setting, trying to set goals with my team since especially since coming to Australia and working with Nicole Pratt, she's, she's like my mentor. With a lot of things even like, with my life, I would, if I needed advice, I'd always go to Nicole, if I really want her advice, but now I'm more focusing not just just the small wins, because I feel like sometimes, if you said like ranking goals, or I want to get, I want to be major of this tournament, like, if you don't quite get there, you get really disappointed. So now just try and celebrate. I break down my goals I really get down to being like very specific. You know, I was, for example, this year, I was like struggling with my or not this year, last year or beginning of the year, I was like struggling with my surf or with my confidence. Like when I went to Acapulco, after a not very good or the summer. I was so hard on myself. I was like, Oh, I don't even want to do it anymore. Like I and I was hard on myself because I just came back from an injury. But I actually didn't have the motivation to play. So I was like, What am I doing? What is wrong with me? And that's because I think I was focused on getting back to where I think I should be like Back to Top 100 That's all I thought about, like ranking points, ranking points. So then when I went away to Acapulco was started talking with Jay Gooding, who is coaching me now. Well, not right now. That, hey, let's focus on the small wins. And, you know, we, for example, like with my surf, I was double faulting a lot because I thought that everyone if I don't hit a fast enough surf, then they the girls are just gonna crush it, which they will regardless because they run so aggressive on the second set, so I was literally happy if I would make less double false than I normally would. So if I practised and I've only had like two double folds in the practice, I would be happy. And if I made this serve and they've hit a winner, I'd be still happier that hey, I went for a say like, say a good serve and didn't just go for a cop out slider wide. So like the small wins, I think is more important, like, or breaking it down to very specific goals is more important than, you know, general goal for me.

Daniel Kiernan: But I think that's such good advice. And there's so many players, coaches, parents listening to this podcast. And it's, I always think motivation for all of us goes up and down. You know, I run an International Tennis Academy in Spain, and some mornings, I just can't be bothered, I don't want to get up and go and deal with another parent telling me that their kids should be playing in this group and that group and, you know, I just don't want to do it. But, but my purpose is strong enough, and I like to think my discipline is strong enough that then I'm able to just show up every day, you know. So regardless of that, the ups and downs, and I think the advice you're giving there on the small wins, are bringing it back into that process is such good advice to people listening. But my question to you is, and I apologise if I get your age wrong, are you 28? Now? 28? Yeah, yeah. So So in terms of how old were you when you were able to get into that mindset? So if we go back to your junior days, was that something that you were able to do? If coaches were telling you or were you just like, screw you know, it's about, it's about winning, it's about me, getting my ranking here, it's about doing that was was that something I guess what I'm getting at that's naturally in you are something that you've really had to work hard to change the way that you view that.

Daria Saville: I definitely had to work hard to change that, I would say almost. I had glimpses of doing it. But then, you know, this year, I really tried to implement it as much as I could. But then, at one point, I completely went away from it. I can like, kind of remember. But when I was very close to being top 50. I, I started, you know, looking at rankings, and then I actually started competing for number one, Australia. So someone put in my head, like I did an interview. And they said, Oh, you're so close to ILO, you're gonna be the the next number one, or the player. And then I got, I started focusing on that like, and I've have not done this in years, where I would like, look at live rankings and see where I'm at. And I was like, that's, and it's not healthy at all that you should, you should never do that. But at least I would. What, what I did was, I talked to my coaches, or I working with a mental coach. And I was like, This is what I'm dealing with. Because I'm also pretty honest. Like I always say, if anything worries me, or if I'm like, freaking out before a match, I'm gonna talk to my team and say, Hey, this is what's happening. This is the shit that I have in my head, you guys need to know, I'd rather it out of my head into the universe and you guys deal with it. Then me trying to, like, fight myself internally.

Daniel Kiernan: But that again, what an amazing place to be at to be able to do that. You know, when people people are internalising something so much, you know. So again, another brilliant bit of advice, but just to bring it back slightly. If we if we talk about the start of this year, you've been 500 in the world ish, and making your way all the way to top 50. That's not fresh waters for you, because you've been 20 in the world. When we're talking about you becoming the Australian number one, I imagine that was maybe freshwaters that you were potentially going in.

Daria Saville: I was Australian number one as well.

Daniel Kiernan: Okay. Okay. So you'd already been there.

Daria Saville: Before Ash (Barty) came back, or while she was doing her comeback, because the point I'm making is behind Ash after. 

Daniel Kiernan: Okay, yeah, no, that was the point I guess I'm trying to get at is, is it more difficult to stay in the moment and stay in the process when you're going into a period or potential ranking or a potential position that you haven't been in before?

Daria Saville: I think so. But also, honestly, every player, no matter the ranking, everyone is fighting their own demons, like playing a 25, making semifinals and being ranked 600, you would think, Oh my God, if I win this match, I'm going to be ranked 450. So I think at every level, we put extra pressure on ourselves. And that's where it's really important, important to try and be focused on the process. And that's where I think it's important to speak to your team, because that's what, that's when I try and break it down. My goals with them were, you know, it could be anything, it could literally be. The goal for the day is to look for as many forehands as possible. That's like, focusing on the process, rather than I'm gonna, let's, let's try and win this this match. Of course, we're gonna try everyone's trying to win this match. But how are you going to win this? And I'm not gonna win this if I don't look for forehand. So?

Daniel Kiernan: Absolutely. And why? Why have you made it? The terminology "made it" sometimes we don't know, until we reflect on our career. But you absolutely have, you've been top 20 in the world. You know, you've had a great career already. Why have you made it when many others haven't? 

Daria Saville: I´m not sure. I mean, I think I guess I have a bit of everything in my basket, like, I'm a fighter, I've got, I've got the talent. So I've got all the percentages. To make it, I think I've got, I've got enough of it, you know, I had enough support, I think I was brave to make that I made the choice to move to Australia for 100%, I wouldn't. Again, not gonna say I wouldn't have made it because you never know. Because I also need to give credit to myself. But I had lots of support for when I moved to Australia, because in 2013, I moved to Australia with a busted knee. So that's when I, that's where I've done all of my rehab. And I'm so grateful that you know, I had that much support from Tennis Australia, like, I think I have good perspective of in terms of if I stayed in Russia, I would have been, it would have been me and my family, trying to trying to make it where when I moved to Australia, I had so much support. And in, then when I had the Achilles problem, I had the support there again, and again, right now, I'm also really grateful that I will have the support to get back to the top level, where I think when you're on your own, it's a lot harder, like even, you know, I look at you know, an example. And she just jumped in my head. It's not like I'm, you know, I'm friends with Anastasia. But she just popped up in my head that she has been injured with hernia for a while, and she has the support, you know, she's, but still it. I feel like when you have the Federation behind you, it makes it easier.

Daniel Kiernan: But you were, when you were playing under Russia, and I want to get to that in a second, you were doing extremely well in the juniors. So you were already at a very, very high level. So what makes you think that you wouldn't have transitioned from being one of the best juniors in the world, age 17/18 into being a Top 100 Top 50 tennis player, if you didn't have the the medical coaching and support that you that you have in Australia. I tend to think that you've been very, showing a lot of gratitude rightly so because so many people have helped you. But I tend to be of the belief that players get there. Their journey might be slightly different.

Daria Saville: I think yeah, I think you're right, like my journey would have been different. And I think it would have taken maybe longer also. Money was the was going to be a problem. Yeah. Because I would have had to pay for all of my rehab process and, you know, coaching and stuff. So it would have been a problem. And I think, when you're trying to save, and not like I would, and the thing is what my dad always told me, Hey, like, we need to invest in you. Even though we didn't really have much to invest at the beginning, but we I would never ever, like save. On the, on my career, for example, I would never stay in a really, really bad hotel just because it's cheaper. And I would always try and think, hey, you need to be more professional. And I'm kind of jumped off the topic. But

Daniel Kiernan: No, no, not at all. It's a good topic. And we can move topics as much as you like, it's all interesting conversation.

Daria Saville: That's my ADHD. Jumping from one topic to another.

Daniel Kiernan: In terms of it, the question that jumped in my head, why did you move to Australia? Did you move for financial reasons?

Daria Saville: Well, yes. And I, I've actually never enjoyed living in Russia. I grew up in Moscow. I never liked the living there. I never really liked the mentality. And, you know, everyone says, when I came to Australia, people were like, Oh, my God, you're you're not Russian. You're so different. But I think that's because also my parents the way they brought me up. And it's really, really far, obviously. But when I was making like, when me and my dad, were making the choice, we wanted to move somewhere. Well, I loved Australia when I first like came to play juniors and my dad did too, but, and I can't I have, obviously had the connection. I was dating Luke,  back in the day, well still, well we're married now. But so we were already dating, so I was like, well, I'm moving for tennis, but also, obviously, I wanted to move because Luke was here. And yeah, I guess that's why,

Daniel Kiernan: Because I had I coached I won't, I won't say the name, but I coached a player who she's she's now top 100 in the world. And I was at the time she would have been she was doing well in the junior she was maybe about 252 at WTA. And I was staying at the family's house. And I'd arrived at three in the morning. And they said ok breakfast at eight o'clock before we go off the practice. So I turned up kind of blurry eyed to have breakfast. And then the whole family was sat at the breakfast table and it wasn't breakfast, it was a meeting. I was about to get like acosted with the question. And the first question came and there was two girls that are in the family. And they said how do our daughters, how do they become British? Was the first question and I was like I said what you're talking about? Just give me my eggs. You know what, what are you talking about? Like, how do you become British? I said, they're not British. I can't, I dont know, I'm not magic. They said okay, well, if not British, how do they become Australian?

Daria Saville: Yeah, I think when my dad wanted, obviously he was making a lot of decisions and supporting me. We wanted to go after a Grand Slam nation, like if we're gonna do it. Yeah. And that was thought about -Kazakhstan, but again, like, when we made the decision, a lot of a big part of it was also look because I was like, a little girl who was like, oh my god, I'm gonna marry this guy one day, which we did, which is really cool. But yeah, I can I guess I can relate to that family.

Daniel Kiernan: Yeah, because and thats the reason I tell that story is it's almost quite normal in the tennis world. You know, everyone's, it's such a dog eat dog world. Everyone's trying to find their own way. You know, how do we finance this? How do we find the right journey? So then my next question, the cynic out there is going well, she then plays with the, with the green and gold. And she's taken a spot off somebody that you know, one of our own, you know, she's done it for the wrong reasons. What would your reply be to that?

Daria Saville:  I've never had this. I was so welcomed. I was actually, it was crazy. Like, even all the other girls were so welcoming. When I came to Australia like,one of my best friends, Stormy, Storm Sanders, I used to, during my first ACL surgery, we actually lived together. And she was like, making me breakfast and really looking after me. And everyone else was so nice. And I was like, Oh my God, these girls are from another planet. They're not normal. I was like, where's the trick in it? And I think it's, it's crazy, the mentality difference, like in Russia, everyone, just if someone like it was so competitive, but like toxic, like jealousy, where I swear, like, here, we're all so supportive of each other. And I love that mentality. And, you know, we were so close to winning Fed Cup one year, and I actually didn't play the finals because I was injured. But I was, I was like, Oh my God, that would have been so cool. Because that would have showed like, like, we would have had so many stories, because we were so supportive of each other. And still to that day, you know, every time we travel, we would always try and watch each other matches, I think, I think we're just have a really good culture like that of supporting each other.

Daniel Kiernan: But that's reflective of you as well, Dasha, because I think if there was an 18-year-old Russian girl that came into Australia, who was a bitch to everybody, who, who who wasn't, you know, you are and I don't know you, I've picked up stuff from TV, from social media, you know, you've come across as such a bubbly livewire, who connects very easily to people. You know, and I think I really do think that is that a bigger reflection of you, maybe than it is of is of just the Australian setup, but you touched on it back in Russia, and I'm going to take you back to the Spartak Club where I believe you learnt and I also learned something about you over the last few days, that you were you were coached by Rublevs Mum, when you when you grew up. Now when we when we look and I think it's one of the books one of the big talent books, they talk about environments. And one of the environments they always use is the Spartak club you know, as an arena and environment that is that is producing talent.

Daria Saville: I would consider it an unhealthy environment.

Daniel Kiernan: Was it? So tell tell us about. Because I've not been there and I'm sure not many of the listeners have. 

Daria Saville:  I don´t actually talk about it. About the my whole tennis journey. Because, yeah, there's some, I wouldn't want to get into too much detail, but it was pretty um, it was intense. Yeah. So I think that's, I've kind of became who I am because of that, like pretty strong. And, you know, literally that's that is why probably when I got injured, I'm like, Oh, well, shit happens. And I'm just Yeah, it was it was like full on, very competitive. Crazy parents. Okay, just just there was a lot crazy coaches, crazy coaches. Yes.

Daniel Kiernan: In somewhere like that, because, again, we we look at the Eastern Bloc and certainly on the on the on the women's side, the Eastern bloc has had incredible success over the last 15-20 years. What is the success measure of those programmes? Is it just winning?

Daria Saville: I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I think maybe it's, I don't know if it's changing but um, I know in Australia, it's a lot about development. thinking long term and, you know, having good technique and things like that, where, how many times do we see players on tour that you would think, how on earth are they doing what they're doing with that technique? But it's because literally they've worked so hard and they hit a million balls every day. That's a million more balls than every other kid in I don't know, in Australia or. But yeah, Eastern Europe its different.

Daniel Kiernan: Because at what price? Because in Episode 62, we spoke to Valorie Kondos Field who was a famous UCLA gymnastics coach. And she's done a big TED Talk millions of people that have watched it. And it's that the whole title is winning doesn't always equal success. You know, and she went into her coaching with his very, I guess, Eastern Bloc mentality. It's just about winning, winning, do this, but she learned what cost because she was seeing these young girls.

Daria Saville: I think there a lot of broken girls on tour. Yeah, or maybe even guys, I don't know, as much like, um, but I always, you know, when I was little, I always thought that I'm gonna be a Grand Slam Champion. And like, I always had, goals like, I'm gonna be, you know, when I was super young, I thought that I will win a Slam as young as Sharapova did. Because she was like, that's when tennis kind of started booming when Myskina, Sharapova, Kuznetsova, they were killing it. But I think now I'm like, I don't even care if I don't win it. I mean, I would like to and I still think I actually still think I can, especially now with I don't think the tennis level is that high right now. To the point where I'm like, I think I can do it. But at the same time, I'm like, Well, I, if I don't, I'm fine with that, as long as I give it a shot. You know, when I won my first WTA tournament, New Haven, it felt great for five minutes, but then it's like, oh, that's it. Like everyone forgets no one, no one really cares. And it's, you know, it would feel nice for, you know, a week when everyone's like, congrats, congrats, but then next week, Israel next week. So I think it's important to have the perspective and different, like, different goals. And I think it's still important. So for me, like, for example, now, it's while I was on tour, I think it's also important for me to do a bit of networking, like I'm thinking of the future, like, I want to keep in touch with this person,  I want to get to know them, like what are they doing, like, and not just like, hit tennis balls every week.

Daniel Kiernan: And I think often as well that the success that people forget about is health and happiness, which is the ultimate success. You know, and I think it's very easy. It's very easy when we're caught up in this industry. So it's really refreshing to hear you speak as you are Dasha. And but I guess my next point is and again, I picked this up I listen to you speak on Renee Stubbs podcast. And you said that at the start of this year, I know you've got married you went through the preseason, you know, you maybe didn't push yourself as much as you you had previously you felt a little bit undercooked going into the year. But you you said that maybe you were too comfortable at that time. And I guess it's getting that balance as well, isn't it of the Russian Eastern Bloc mentality doesn't allow you to ever be comfortable? You know, which obviously we can we know can go into you said broken girls on the tour. Think of all the broken people that aren't even getting on the tour that are going through that process. You know, they're not even reaching it, they don't have any, they don't have anything so, but but getting that right balance, because I think there's a lot of players and I see it, you know, running, running an academy. So many players are comfortable in their lives, but you you've got this, you've got this kind of pull of you want to push them a bit more because you, you know, there's more in there. But at the same time, they're very happy kids, they've got a good life, you don't want to create a, it's impossible to create that kind of false sense of it's life or death, which it can feel like for some people. So how have you been able to get that balance or do you think that's a really hard thing to get the balance between, I guess, if we call it the Eastern mentality and the Western mentality?

Daria Saville: Well, I probably, it just was a shock to the system when they came to Australia. So yep, that's when I started, like, changing. And so now I'm probably all balanced out. But I definitely was more like that way that is in European, like, being jealous of players and like, looking like being competitive, like, you know, I would hear parents talk about their kids and like, Oh, we got this sponsorship and this sponsorship, like all this bullshit, and it would like, play on my mind and where I think now, though, I'm pretty balanced out where I think I fight for what I want. And I know what I want. But I'm also like, trying to just focus on myself and what makes me happy. And, you know, the, the small wins, like even at a tournament, going for a coffee, finding the good coffee makes me really happy. So I'm gonna do that.

Daniel Kiernan: And again, I'd love to get your insight on this. When we talk about comfortable, I've worked with lots of players in Europe, who, who will say I can do two weeks in a row at tournaments, but I can't do three, you know, two is my max, you know then I need to come back home. Coming from Australia, you have to make the commitment to being on the road and I always think that actually, Aussies get challenged. And I guess we saw it with Ash Barty this year, you know, she just didn't want to, I don't know the ins and outs, but reading between the lines, she just didn't want to be putting herself out there and travelling 8 months a year. So you've got to be almost more dedicated. And you you're out of your comfort zone naturally. So my question to you imagine Luke is a banker. Right? Yeah. Working in Melbourne. Now, how do you do it?

Daria Saville: I don't know. I don't know how Storm does it obviously, like, not everyone has a husband who is on tour with you. Well, he's not on tour with me every week. But it's it is tough. It's tough. But I guess we don't have a choice. And as we you know, as as you get older, it's even harder because when you get older you have you create friends and friendship groups and, you know, we got a dog that we miss. Like, it's harder to travel. When I think when you're younger, you literally have no excuse, like, I mean, I was in Mouratoglou Academy for months where also I'm very grateful to Patrick, he, he's helped me so much as well. So I think when you're a young, I don't think that that there is no excuse. I mean, you're travelling the world with friends like you're fine. Just you're fine. Like, enjoy it while while you can because it's only gonna get worse. The older I get, the harder it is, I think to leave home. But wait, wait, what we do now is we actually just cop it and just fly home and it's frigging expensive, but we just do it. Because sometimes sometimes we have to, for just for our own mental health, you don't always have to be like super tough and grind it out. But for example, Ellen Perez, she can just travel, she doesn't care. Because she hates the planes, she hates the travel and she hates jetlag. But yeah, since moving to Australia, like 2015-2016, I was on the road for months, like, just before the French till end of US open. So I think when you're young, you can do it. And if you love it, I don't think it's that hard. Because I actually do look when I was young, and I didn't have like that many friends back home. I also made more friends while I was injured. That's another thing. Because while I was travelling, most of my friends were tennis players, and they were on tour. So I think when you're young and you're a tennis player,  you would have a lot of friends on tour. I understand some kids that will miss their friends from school, though. And they will feel they feel like they're missing out on a lot of normal stuff that the school kids do. I definitely understand that.

Daniel Kiernan: It´s the sacrifice of our industry isnt it.

Daria Saville: There is a bit of sacrifice for sure.

Daniel Kiernan: You mentioned a few minutes ago, and it perked my ears, that you've got ADHD. Now, when we think of tennis qualities, we think of focus, attention, we think of concentration, we think of, you know, zoning in on 1 thing. How have you been able to manage that throughout your career?

Daria Saville: I was always told that I can't concentrate. And in Russia, they just especially what, like years ago when I was a kid, they wouldn't, they don't diagnose it. It's just like your kid can't pay attention. And I think to be fair, it's coming from my Dad, because he's the same as me. But I only got the proper diagnosis, maybe in 2019, or 18. And it was I think Nicole knew all along that I've had it. But she was able to kind of manage it with me, because she was on me while she was travelling with me. She was on me about everything. Like did you do this? Did you do that? I'm going to put your rackets and like she would take care, she would be like, Okay, this is when you are warming up. Like if you're warming up at 930am, you have to get to the gym by 9am. And she would know that I'm probably going to be late. So then, you know, they were managing it that way until I started to like become an adult and I had all other things I had to take care of, apart from just playing tennis. And that's when I started really struggling. So, you know, I don't feel like it made a massive difference on for me being on the tennis court. You know, because I think I was still able to kind of focus on the tennis court. I mean, I still struggle. If you watch the matches, I just go away sometimes and I'm in another in another world. But what was important for me was to try and manage like just my everyday life because the amount of times I would not bring tennis shoes to practice or forget my strings and things like that. It was just too, it was too much.

Daniel Kiernan: And has or how have things changed since the diagnosis, has that helped you?

Daria Saville:  I'm on meds and it helps especially like I said, managing the daily life. I wouldn't say like I'm a better tennis player because of it, no chance. But I think I just have less like thoughts and distractions, but I still get distracted very easily.

Daniel Kiernan: If you go back to your you as a little girl, how do you wish that you were maybe managed differently? Alongside having that, you know, what were some of the frustrations you felt? And how could someone have managed you a little bit different?

Daria Saville: I think what was really tough it was when everyone would tell me to focus. And I literally could not because my little brain just doesn't want to do it. So I would get yelled at, but it's just I couldn't do it. And that's probably the main thing. And otherwise, I think my parents were like they were, they knew that I was not very, you know, forgetful. They probably just thought I was forgetful. So they, they would help me with, like, little things like they would try and make sure I'm on schedule with things. But yeah, like, even when I was a junior, I mean, I lost my passport once. And I'm convinced now that was because of my ADHD, I just left it on the plane. And I got in a lot of trouble. I had to go to an embassy and get like a paper, and then I was unable to play a tournament and it was a nightmare.

Daniel Kiernan: So more, the understanding, people around you having a bit more understanding of who you are.

Daria Saville: Yeah, instead of like, I was getting in trouble for just not being focused or forgetting something all the time where now, I mean, I know that that's probably why, that I actually, like, just couldn't do it.

Daniel Kiernan:  I have to admit, you know, I'm on all social medias. And you know, I do, that's where I get my news. And it's not often I'll stop and watch a video. But I'm now at the point when I see you put some content out there. You've had me laughing so hard at times, that I that I always now will stop. If it comes through on a Twitter feed or comes through uncertain feed, stop and watch it, you do an incredibly good job on it. So well done. And thanks for giving us the lighter side of tennis as well. Where Where did this start? And? And where's that going to take you? What what are we going to see from you in 5-10 years time?

Daria Saville: Well, I think I just literally, like post whatever I feel like, there, there's not much filter. Sometimes I get in trouble. My coach or Luke will be like, What the fuck, delete this. Delete it. And it's like it's always too late. Some stalker already like screenshotted this.

Daniel Kiernan: Yeah, once it´s out there.

Daria Saville: I think I guess I always just liked the attention. I don't know why. Yeah, like, that's another thing. Like, what's killing me right now. Is like, if I'm not on tour, like, I'm not even freaking relatable. And, you know, I'm, I'm honest. Like, I do like the attention and I'm someone who's gonna, like, if I win a big match, I'm like, gonna search my name up and things like that. Yeah, and in terms of like creativity, I just like editing videos and just playing with it. And you know, I have fun. And I also think everyone's so serious on tour. Like, it kills me like, come on. It's just a freaking tennis tournament, like, and it's not like we're making millions of money playing a 250 tournament anyway, pretty much losing money playing there anyway.

Daniel Kiernan: What does, what does make you happy?

Daria Saville: Ah. Well, lots of small things actually make me happy. My dog mostly makes me very happy. But I think I'm really lucky with like, my family and friends. And I think just socialising makes me happy, but I'm also happy to just chill and not do anything. Sometimes, I feel like oh yeah, I want to socialise and hang out with my friends and sometimes I just want to do nothing. Tennis does make me happy like travel and I actually enjoy it. And I do enjoy like, you know, the best feeling for me on the tennis court is when you hit like when the when the strings are just the right tension. Because even though you Have your own like tension. Like, it takes a while for it to feel like great. And when the ball like when you hit it of the middle of the racket, that feels pretty good.

Daniel Kiernan:  I'll have forgotten that feeling.  It's a long time since I've had that nice feeling!

Daria Saville: It´s the worst feeling when you shank, I hate it, I'd rather miss it than shank. But I honestly, um, it's funny, because whenever I shank, it actually goes in.

Daniel Kiernan: You´ve got the luck of the frame! I stopped playing when I was 25. And then, for the next two years or so, I played a lot of club stuff in Germany and, and I and I actually found my level was as good if not better. Certainly on the doubles court, I was a bit more relaxed, you know, didn't have as many stresses. And then I when I was about 29-30, I played a club event. And I played the singles match where I didn't have one shot that felt good out the middle of the strings. And it's actually the last singles match I ever played. Well, 12 years ago, I just I couldn't bear, I can't bear the thought of going out and playing and just feeling like crap on the court. I don't have the dedication, the time, the discipline to get out there and train anymore. So it's, it's my tennis days are gone. You know, maybe in a few years time, I might decide over 45s ,over 50s and come back. But I just didn't like the feeling of not playing well.

Daria Saville: When you coach you still hit right? 

Daniel Kiernan: Yeah, it's so different, though. I mean, hitting, hitting is great. It's I mean, there's nothing better than hitting because it's it there's there's no pressure. Even playing the odd tiebreaker not, theyre not too bad. The second someone says set or match. It just it's amazing how it changes, how you how you feel, all of a sudden everything happens so much quicker, you struggle to get your timing so much more.

Daria Saville: Yeah. I actually feel like with me with my, with injuries, I don't actually lose that. Like, it's I mean, I've done it so many times, but I could not play for four months. And then if I have to play a set, I'm pretty. I'm pretty switched on. But I think it's also because of the way return, we like the the return to play, it's really important. So you know, even like, I'm gonna be hitting balls from a chair, they're making me like a, they're actually trying engineers at Tennis Australia, they're gonna make me chair. So then I can sit on a chair, but I can still like move, my whole body moves. And so like I would be able to move my injured leg. And we still, whenever we practice, we still like, even just sitting in the chair we try and make make it competitive.

Daniel Kiernan: So you need to send you need to send me a couple of videos when that happens. So we can share it on the podcast, social media page. I'm sure the listeners would, would love to see that. My last couple of things, and I I feel bad because my absolute plan was to talk about the good things in your career, because you've had a lot of great things. And well, what's not boring is and you mentioned before, and you know, being brought up in Russia, as Maria Sharapova was the the absolute star at the time, you know, not just in Russia, but in the global game. And that was that was a win that you had. And again, you know, it was something I wanted to talk about and then I listened to it again speaking on Renae's podcast, and you told such a great story about before you played against her and I can't have you on without you sharing that story.

Daria Saville: Yeah, so before I played Maria, I was trying my new outfit that I bought when actually I'm sponsored by Lululemon now, but I went and bought this outfit, and I was like trying it on in front of the mirror. And I didn't know I started like, I really did believe that I could beat her. I mean, I don't know where it came from and like, I don't even have the right to I didn't even have the right to believe that I would beat her but I did, I really thought that that I'm going to win? And I was like I didn't even know. I wasn't aware of what's called when you're the imaginary visualisation visualisation. I wasn't even aware of it. But that's basically what I did. So it was like visualising, like, winning points and how I would celebrate. And then I was like, like, visualising how I would win the match point. And how I would celebrate, I mean, the celebration was completely different to probably what I've done in the mirror. But then, yeah, it it's, it's crazy. How just because it obviously not because I've done that. That's why I won. But I think it's really, really, really important to have the belief. And I think that's like, why I'm, that's another reason I guess why I'm good at tennis, is because I really have the belief. I never, you know, the only player that literally was like, I'm not beating her was Serena. You know, I was trying to fake myself, like, you know how you can believe in something but you're like, you just tell yourself that like it's not actually like, coming from like, it's it's not in it? Yeah. Not coming from within but with Yeah, with like, Serena it was not coming from within. I was like, Yeah, I've got this, but then this other voice like it's Seren and like, what, what do you have? Like, you've got nothing!

Daniel Kiernan: How good was Serena in her prime?

Daria Saville: And it's funny, because I've played her a few times, I played her even like in 2013 I was like, a baby. I was a lucky loser. I won my first round. And then this whole time when I was playing the first round, I was thinking, oh my god, I have an opportunity to play Serena because she had a bye. And then, I mean, I actually played well, like I've never even won a set against her. But then the other times when I played her, I don't think she like, it wasn't her prime, you know. But every time I would lose, I would say yeah, that was the real Serena. That was it. Because you know how she like she came back a few times and dropped off and blah, blah, blah. So I've played her a few times where her ranking was down and she wasn't like at her best. But I swear every time I played her I was like that's it. She played really well. And my brother would always give me shit, he would be like yeah, for some reason you always say the same thing and Serena only plays her best whenever she plays against you and I'm like yep, that's it.

Daniel Kiernan: But it's it's so interesting because the one I was about to ask and maybe you've already answered the question was have you ever won a match that you've gone into the match not believing that you can win the match? 

Daria Saville: Probably, but also maybe not. But I think I do have the belief more like that with them believe most of the time.

Daniel Kiernan: And your results show that you know I mean this year and Radacanus  ranking dropped, but at the time you played her she was she was right  up there. Ons Jabeur, Kvitkova, you know you've beaten these top 10 players in the world this year when your ranking, I know that your levels different to your ranking, but your ranking gave you know right. So what's the secret to you, one,  belief but what what's the secret on getting over the line and beating these these top 10 players in the world?

Daria Saville: The Twitter trolls. Im kidding! It is just every time I like cause like I said I like search myself up. But it just like they go crazy. They're like who the fuck is this? Why did she beat like Kvitova and stuff. And it's just it's just funny but I think maybe it motivates me even more when the odds it and to be fair, it is so much easier to play someone you shouldn't beat, it's a lot easier. And that's where I have, like so much respect for Ash, for example, she's always beaten someone she should beat, she barely lost against someone ranked much lower than her. So it's from like, in terms of like, motivation, it's so much easier to, for me to play on a big court against a top 10 player, rather than playing a 25 against someone ranked 300.

Daniel Kiernan: You sound like Nick Kygrios.

Daria Saville: No, but it's true. It's 100% True. And you know, it happened to me this year. I went to Bronx, and I actually, and I knew I would struggle. And I do struggle with this. I actually do struggle with this. Like sometimes. I love the big moments. I don't really like playing in front of no one. Yeah, it sucks. It really does. And that's why I think sometimes you see all this random results. It's because some players just like they really struggle. But I've also not done so well like at Grand Slams like I think I've under done. I haven't achieved anything great at slams like I've made just twice fourth round. Yet. That's another reason why I want to get back and I was like it sucks that I got injured because I really started like working on it with the you know, my mental coach and my team. Because it was pretty tough for me after I lost the first round at US Open but I don't know if you saw my Instagram post I went on about it.Well, what I wrote just for the listeners, like I said, I kind of went on about how grand slams are so so much different than other any other tournament, and how much how hectic it is. And just, and we only ever, like get to practice at it like four times a year where every other tournament, if we wanted to we could play almost every week. And I don't know, I think that is also another reason why I think that the woman's tennis is so inconsistent because I think a lot of girls have maybe the same struggles as me, that they put so much more pressure on themselves at Grand Slams.

Daniel Kiernan: And do you think that that pressure comes externally? Both? Yeah. Because what I love about this conversation, like your honesty comes through so loud and clear. You know, and I think and I've speak to a lot of players on the podcast, who were brilliant, but to get to the level of honesty that you're giving isn't always easy. Whereas it but I think that's really important because because I think when we watch you guys on TV, it's almost like looking at robots sometimes if you're not real in some ways, because we you know, we see you guys are certainly this arenas and the Rogers, the Rafas, you know, the world, and it's sometimes easy to forget that there's a person in there.

Daria Saville: And so if we're acting like, honestly and sometimes we do have to act and that's like one thing that were like we said with what we're talking about the team that on court you kind of have to be an actress like you have to freaking fake it. But I think you can do that but also I think it's important. Like for me, I really want to I actually am a bit like upset, you know, the Netflix show, it's gonna come out and I'm like, gutted that you know, like, I'm honest, like I would I would have fucking loved being in it. And I was like, I was gonna be so honest. I was going to like tell them the whole freaking story. And I'm like, I'm really excited to see it but I'm like, please just be honest, like don't romanticise the tour. Like you're just gonna, like, make it look like are here like she's struggling because she's injured and like, everyone gets injured, whatever. Let's like break it down like everyone is fighting their own demons. Like I really want to see how if this show is going to be like honest and that's when, you know, viewers, and the fans are going to see a different perspective. Because right now, you're right, it's just robots and when we're doing interviews, it's the same shit with we're all saying the same shit. Yeah, like, I've played well, what are your expectations? Like, when when journalists ask this question, they actually like, everyone has frigging expectations. Everyone has their own goal, but you're not you're not gonna say it. And I think I really want that, like the Netflix show to, to make it look real and not just romanticise it and make it like I think it's all going to be about Nick, to be honest, the show, but at least he is honest.

Daniel Kiernan: Yeah, well, he certainly real isn't he you know, there's no, there's no hiding, there's no hiding that, and that's why I think he's so good for the sport as well. You know, because if there's two, there's two moments, or certainly one big moment that impacted me as a person, as a coach, as someone in tennis was Andy Murray crying his eyes out when he lost the (Wimbledon ) final in 2012. To Roger Federer. And, and the impact that had on me as a coach was, he was crying because he, he finally accepted, I might never win a Grand Slam. And that's okay. That became okay. And you've said that as well. Earlier on in this chat, you've said You know, it's, you're okay, with not winning the tournament, you've got, you've got a certain perspective. Now, Murray then went on to win the Olympics a few weeks later, the US Open a couple of months later, because he kind of lost that. He lost that a little bit. Do you bring that back to you? Do you think you have that same perspective for the grand slams? Or do you think part of the weight that you're carrying, when you're playing the grand slams? Is that you just saw want to have a have a have a run deep into the Grand Slams, that you almost can't accept not doing that?

Daria Saville: Yeah, I definitely think the problem is, I really don't think the, like, the woman's tennis had, like, everyone has an opportunity. And, um, and I think I put so much pressure on myself that hey, like, this is, this is the one like you're gonna have a deep run. But it's so stupid, like, the girl is trying to do the same thing because she would feel exactly what I'm feeling. And externally, this also a different pressure, like what I've said, like there's so many random people showing up all of a sudden, and you know, normally, I would have like two people in my box. And now there's like, more people like, and I don't even want to feel that way like that. I'm not trying to be mean or ungrateful. But it does, like, fuck with my head. Maybe because it's my ADHD like, I really do think or what are they thinking? Or, like, I feel like I owe them like, I feel like they made an effort to be here that hey, like, I've got to impress them like and the thing is, that's just me spiralling they don't even like all they want for me is to just you know, be healthy and play well like they don't care if I win.

Daniel Kiernan: Does that not go against the show woman though, you know, you are saying like, the big matches you're playing. You know, you're playing on the centre court.

Daria Saville: That's because that would have been easier. Like, I would rather play first round against a top 10 player on Arthur Ashe, then someone on Court Seven. Yeah, not like I'm expected to win.

Daniel Kiernan: But yeah, so from this day forward, I not that I have any power in your life, but me and anybody that follows you, we expect you to lose first round of every Grand Slam. And we're cool with it. For the rest of your, for the rest of your career. Whenever you play a Grand Slam, I want you to I'll send you the clip of this moment. We all expect you to lose first round and it's absolutely no problem at all.

Daria Saville: That's true like the worst thing that could actually fricking happen apart from being injured is actually that I would just lose. It's not that fucking bad. Like, I'll survive.

Daniel Kiernan: It´s that tolerance for failure. I think once if we, if we can tolerate failing, then then we're closer to being able to perform to what we're capable of. In anything we do. I think it's not, it's not just tennis related. You know me I, when I come on this I speak to different people that are, that are big names in the tennis world. And I could cock up, do you know what I mean? But I but I feel I feel quite comfortable on that. Because maybe it's because I also don't get paid to do this. It's a free service. If someone started paying me big money to do these, these these chats, maybe that would bring a different a different way about it.  

Daria Saville: Wait, am I not getting paid for this?

Daniel Kiernan:  Send your agent. Get your agent to speak to my agent.

Daria Saville: Wait, wait no other way around. I'm paying you for having me on here.

Daniel Kiernan: To get your story out there. But, but in terms of it's been such a pleasure talking to you, but I can't let you go yet, two things. One, we have a quick fire round, which my listeners will kill me if you don't do the quick fire fire round. And two, we've touched on him Nick Kygrios. And, you know, he's someone who is such a, he's such a big name in tennis. And you know, I certainly am one that think he's, he's amazing for tennis and opening up the doors to new people. But we go back to 2016. You're playing for the first ever time, Hopman Cup again, one of my favourite events, you know, I really hope they put something on.

Daniel Kiernan: They're bringing mixed evetns in I've heard. 

Daria Saville: It freaking hurts

Daniel Kiernan: 2024 you'll be there. You'll be there. You know, but this podcast I said,  it's listened to in 140 plus countries, but probably 50% of our listeners are in the UK. Andy Murray is an absolute God to everybody that listens and you,  you and Nick put him away 11-9 in the third set on your way to winning the Hopman Cup.

Daria Saville: I dont think they were like, they were, oh, yeah, that was a deciding match.

Daniel Kiernan: It was a deciding match.

Daria Saville:  Because then we had to beat France and Andy and Heather (Watson), they were they were back at the hotel watching us at the casino. And they were hoping that we would lose because if we did, they would go through I think something like that. But yeah, that was not, that was the first time when that's probably why Aussies also like me, because so when I got the passport, I won the H opman Cup. Aussies like the winners.

Daniel Kiernan: Tell us about that experience, because they love their sport, dont they the Australian summer. 

Daria Saville: It was one of the best weeks I've had. And it was so fun. And the funniest thing like how real Nick was like, just playing with him. Like, I lost a few really tough singles and what I liked about him that he wouldn't just be like, Oh, that's okay. Like, we're still we're still a chance like, I loved how he was just like, oh my god, I have to carry you again! We had like really tight moments in in mixed doubles and he would come up to me and he would be like, mate, I'm shitting myself. I'm like, I'm like Nick I can't breathe. What are you talking about? And I think it would like relax us because we'll be and now I've done it a few times with more doubles partners and they're like What the fuck? And I'm like oh my god it worked with me! Now when I say that to my doubles patners I make them even more tight and I'm like argh! That backfired!

Daniel Kiernan: Yeah there's certainly I don't see the been many Nick Kygrios' on the tour. Nevermind on the women's tour, you know, I think you've I think that's a unique one and tell us about Nick. What, you know, we hear we hear so many stories about Nick. There's different there's different narratives out there. I knew him pretty well on the juniors and always saw him as a as a great guy, big larger than life personality around the locker rooms. But what's what's been your, your experience around Nick.

Daria Saville: We're actually like, we're not real, really friends, like we're friendly. But we never hang out, like we say hello and everything but I think you know, from when he used to train in Melbourne, he was always he was always Nick. Like, what you see is what you gonna get like, and he was the same when he was a junior. And when he was like in Melbourne training, he would only want to play like fun games and play. He would never drill. He just always played games. And that's where that's like the way girls practice compared to guys. Guys just always play, play, play, play play, where we're like doing drills two cross, one line frigging other stuff.

Daniel Kiernan: Why? Why is that? 

Daria Saville: I don't know. I think, well, I always try and like what I I know some of the patterns that I need to work on. So I guess I work on that. Where I feel like, I'm not watching TK, all he did was just play points. I'm like, Are you? But I don't know if that's if that's what other players do. I think they would, surely they will do more pattern, l like drills than just TK and Kygrios  where they just slap balls.

Daniel Kiernan: I guess open points you're still working on your patterns, you can still work on your patterns. You know, but I think I think there's there was a narrative a few years ago that women don't practice with women, because they're all bitchy with each other and nobody's friends, which is absolute nonsense, I think. But for me that the way that I've always described this, and I've been lucky to work with men and women that are playing to a high level, is when you do have such specific practices working on one cross one line, it's probably not that fun for somebody who's on the other side of the court. So it becomes a little bit more specific to that player. Whereas when you have in general, I think your generalisation is right, that the men will play a little bit more open points, hit for rhythm, play a bit more open points. Whereas in general, the women will do a little bit more serve ball three patterns. That doesn't necessarily work to have two people on the court, because it's kind of one players practise.

Daria Saville: They make it work in Australia.

Daniel Kiernan: Do you? So tell us about that?

Daria Saville: Well, maybe it's also again, Nicole, sometimes she runs squads, I guess. But we make sure that if we're gonna like if I'm practising with Storm or Ellen, we kind of help each other out. So I will do a drill that is important for me. But mostly everyone has the same patterns like you know, it we would never practice something like like something stupid that no one even does. Like I would never practice like just a drop shot just for the sake of it because that is shit for someone on the other side. But yeah, we always try to if we do that, like pattern stuff, but it's it's also like when we do the pattern stuff it's more just for the volume. So we hit enough balls because if you just play points it can be very short. Yep. Well depends on the level I guess the guys dont miss as much!

Daniel Kiernan: And the stigma, the stigma of the women's tour, girls don't get on and uh, you know, you seem to be to me to be someone who blows that stigma out the water. You know, you seem to have lots of lots of connections, lots of good relationships, you know, when when you have had your injuries, you know the amount of people that are reaching out to support you, you know, it seems like your your really well liked.

Daria Saville:  Or didn't reach out.

Daniel Kiernan: Do you notice that? Is that something that you...

Daria Saville: I do! And I'm like, well, you're like, I even posted a story. I got in trouble for it. I was like, I said, I was actually kind of hurt. But then, at the same time, I'm like, they probably didn't know how to react. When I was on crutches in Tokyo and a few girls like literally did not even make an eye contact with me. I was like, f you,  you're in my shit list.

Daniel Kiernan: So tell me is the stigma that there is a lot of that that goes on the tour? Or is is it more more friendly than people realise?

Daria Saville: Probably 70% friendly, 30% like, not friendly.

Daniel Kiernan: And will you tell them?

Daria Saville: Well, eventually. I think seriously next time I'm coming back on tour I'm gonna be like, stop being a fucking bitch. Like, get a life, like why are you so rude?

Daniel Kiernan: Netflix, are you listening? Netflix? We need this on our screens 24/7.

Daria Saville: Most girls on Netflix are super nice, though.

Daniel Kiernan: We'll see. We'll see.

Daria Saville: I'm not gonna tell them off. But it's also not my place to tell them off.

Daniel Kiernan: No, but if you're not..

Daria Saville: Unless they're rude to me. But, yeah, ad what what annoys me is like, the Twitter trolls or the fan bases of some girls like, they, they would absolutely like, they would go crazy. And they would like write really nasty stuff. And then like, you don't even like you would actually probably want to be friends with me, like, out of all of the girls that you're supporting. Like, you would want to be friends with me. But just, but some people just hate the way I am on court. And I'm like, I don't even mean to like, I'm freaking pest on court sometimes. Like, and I don't mean to be like that. I don't like, I don't control myself. Like when I like do the come ons and everything. I j ust it's like, I bring the positive energy and then, you know, that helps me like literally I can't I don't even I don't practice that well, because like it's awkward if like, I was going to bring the same energy with like, come on, like pumping myself up on the tennis, on the practice court. So I don't actually win that many practice sets.

Daniel Kiernan: You would have been amazing in US college. I went to US college. I think you would have been amazing.

Daria Saville: Ahhh that's why Danielle Collins is killing it. I probably would have been at her level because I didn't go there. I love, I mean she's crazy but it's like, it's hilarious. 

Daniel Kiernan: She brings some serious energy but Dasha, what's what's next for you? Not the immediate, we know that the next the next eight to 12 months you're going to be getting yourself ready to rock again but I'm talking 5-10 years, what have we got to look forward to with Dasha Saville?

Daria Saville: Well hopefully 5-10 years I'll have kids and stuff so I'll be busy.

Daniel Kiernan: And how good are they going to be at tennis. Talk about pressure!

Daria Saville:  Golf.

Daniel Kiernan: You won't allow them to go the tennis... I said that, I said that, I've got three kids.

Daria Saville: No, I still I think I actually I wouldn't, I might become like the crazy mom, crazy tennis mom. Because Luke, Luke is so chill. But I think I would be, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know whatever they want.

Daniel Kiernan: Bad line calls, you'll be shouting at the kids, your little boy or little girl's upset and it's a it's a different I'm telling you it it is a very different feeling. My boy 11 years old, he plays like the Tennis Europe's and he plays to quite a good level. It's different. You know, I as a tennis coach, I live by control the controllables. I'm always kind of the calming voice, the wise, you know, to just take care of what you can take care of and the emotions you experience when you're on the side of the court and some kids in his face going Venga, Vamos, you know, and you're just like, it's, yeah, it's difficult. It's, and I think it's good for all tennis coaches to experience it actually, because it is a very, we give tennis parents a hard time. But once you're once  itsyou're own, you do feel different and the comparison is the killer. And we preach, don't compare, don't compare, but as a parent, you go, well, they're doing that what should my child and those thoughts do absolutely come into my head..

Daria Saville:  And actually also with, especially with girls what, even though like it is amazing that Coco Gauff is so good, but it's also terrible for the tennis parents, because they would expect them, their 14-year-old girls to be at Coco's level. And it's like, no Coco is one-off like, yeah, she's great. She's that good. Like you, you cannot expect your child to be, you can't compare anyone to Coco. Like she's, she's gonna be like, killing it. And you know, everyone has their own path. So definitely the comparison in everything.

Daniel Kiernan: Coco Gauff and Carlos Alcaraz are bad for the sport, when when we talk about that.

Daria Saville: For the parents 100%. Some of them are not even developed the way they are. Like, some of them are freaking sticks. And then they then they get their progress and they get better and you know, they're still going to do great or maybe not, who cares?

Daniel Kiernan: Dasha, before we move into the quickfire, I just want to say, for myself and all the listeners, thank you, you've been brilliant. And, you know, for you to come on, give your time, give your honesty.

Daria Saville: Oh I have so much time.

Daniel Kiernan: We'll have to make it a weekly event, you know, Dashas Tuesday or something, we'll call it, but but it's it we've loved it. I've loved having the chance to speak to you, wish you all the best. Keep smiling. You know, keep the keep that perspective. Remember, none of us expect you to ever win another Grand Slam match. So when you turn up to that next Grand Slam, we all expect you to lose. You just go and do what you do what you need to do. Are you ready for the quick fire round? What does control the controllables mean to you?

Daria Saville: When I get all crazy on the tennis court, thinking that the wind is too much and it annoys me. I say to myself, I can't control that. So then I, what I tell myself is what can you control and I can control my footwork.

Daniel Kiernan: Very good. Tick tock or Instagram?

Daria Saville: Tick tock. Oh my god. Instagram is dying. Is it? Well, I don't know. I think so.

Daniel Kiernan: Serena or Venus. 

Daria Saville: Venus. 

Daniel Kiernan: Roger or Rafa?

Daria Saville: Ah, this is horrible. Like I don't even know why I chose Venus over Syrena Well, Roger, but I love Rafa. Both.

Daniel Kiernan: Billie Jean King cup or Hopman Cup? 

Daria Saville: Hopman Cup. 

Daniel Kiernan: Serve or Return? 

Daria Saville: Serve 

Daniel Kiernan: Medical timeout or not? Should they be allowed?

Daria Saville: Well, you have to have them. Like what would I have done? When I busted my knee?

Daniel Kiernan: Well, the harshness in me says, well tough you're out.

Daria Saville: Well, I was out anyway.

Daniel Kiernan: But that, that example for me is like Well, yeah, well, you couldn't carry on, you couldn't carry on. So look, we all feel for you , but sorry. Next match. In some ways, if if we're talking about...

Daria Saville: Some players abuse it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:39:41  
That's the problem. 

Daria Saville: But I don't know I feel like for my own sake, like I need to know that I'm able to call a physio if I'm like, I don't know anything could happen. And it could be very small but you could still carry on like a tape, like you need to re tape something or, like the amount of times I just bang my toes and I break my toenails. And then I have to tape it is crazy. But that's bad preparation. That that's because I was lazy and I didn't tape my toes before that. Still I'm saying medical, even though I hate when people abuse it but that's ok.

Daniel Kiernan: Singles or doubles?

Daria Saville: Singles. 

Daniel Kiernan: Five sets or three sets for men at Grand Slams.

Daria Saville: Fuck them, they can play three.

Daniel Kiernan:  And women?

Daria Saville: Three, I mean, imagine watching, like some of my shitty matches for five sets. The amount of times I go, like up and down, up and down. No way. I think you can really package a really good match into three sets. It was great though to watch Medvedev Nadal for five sets.

Daniel Kiernan: I think the five set for me the five setters bring something different and special to the sport. I really do. 

Daria Saville: But still, you can package it in three sets. It sucks for us that when you wait when they schedule and you have to wait around. Youre like ooohh.

Daniel Kiernan:  If your third match, it was actually it was 2012 Australian Open there was a play I was working with. And I was also working with a junior. And I was with the junior at Traralgon. And my girl, was she was playing fourth match after two men and a women's match. So I was like, no problem. I watched my boy play in Traralgon and then I get the train to Melbourne. I'll be there easy in time. Ended up being two men's matches that both retired in the first set. So it was like it's a five hour difference five, six hour difference in terms of when the match, we expected the match to be. 

Daria Saville:  It's stressful. It's so stressful. Like we need to, we need to prepare still for retirement just in case, like your warm up a million hours before the match. Its just a nightmare. I hate it.

Daniel Kiernan: What's the most times you've ever warmed up for a match?

Daria Saville: At least maybe five.

Daniel Kiernan: It's amazing.

Daria Saville: Like what other sport even has that?  I need to make a Tick Tock about that. People don't realise how like how stupid is that? But to be fair, I honestly think a tennis like a pre-match warmup. Like, do you really need it? Do you really really need to hit like, are you gonna forget how to play tennis? Okay, that's it's nice when it's like when you're first on, but then if you wait for six hours like did that, did you really need to wake up that early for this warmup? No.

Daniel Kiernan: Well, for the fans and for TV, it's certainly not good to keep out there. You know, people come on and they prat around for 5,6,7,8,9,10 minutes putting shoes on and doing all of those things. It certainly I think makes our sport a little bit less attractive, you know, slows it down, you know.

Daria Saville: I do think tennis is slow, especially if it's a bad match. 25 seconds between points and then you watch a five second point.

Daniel Kiernan: So that brings me to my next question. What is one rule change you would have in tennis?

Daria Saville: We spoke about this with Max Purcell. Was he on your podcast? Why did he bring it up? Someone brought it up, just like that. At dinner,  the amount of shit we're talking about a dinners like with tennis people. And he said you cant have more than one ball toss.

Daniel Kiernan: Pat Rafter would be screwed, back in the day.

Daria Saville: And me and actually, I saw it on Andy Roddick tweeted the same thing. And he's like, Well, it's this like, it's the same shit as my backhand. Like I couldn't hit the backhand, so..

Daniel Kiernan: Can I I have that one again?

Daria Saville: So no I think I still want the ball toss. I still need it. I think I would like toilet breaks even though there was the there is a rule that the time it starts once again, like there, because people used to abuse the toilet breaks. But then to be fair, I need to pee all the time during matches. Oh, it's tough. Sometimes it's really stressful. I need to take a dump. But no kidding, I've never done this maybe the ball toss. Or, or, or like, it kills me sometimes the, even though there's the 25 rule in between points, but some players have the, like a very long routine. Like maybe there is a rule for that, like the serve action that it shouldn't take more than 10 seconds or something like that?

Daniel Kiernan: Well, it's 25 seconds in between points. And that 25 seconds ends when the racket touches the ball. You know, something that actually if you do have an issue with your ball toss, or you get up to the line quicker.

Daria Saville: But then people still catch the ball toss and just redo it.

Daniel Kiernan: Yeah but if it goes over 25 seconds if you if you catch the ball toss.

Daria Saville: Yeah but umpires are not on it. Yeah, they let you get away with it. So that's it, like be just be more strict with that. You can still if you still if you have a shocking ball toss, just get you have to just get to the line. But I think umpires need to be more strict with that rule, because the amount of times players get away with it.

Daniel Kiernan: It's got to be consistent, doesn't it? And last last last question. I need you to think about this one because the part of the control the controllables tribe, is we pass the baton on to the next guest so called. Who should our next guest on Control the Controllables?

Daria Saville: Who named me?

Daniel Kiernan: John Morris, named you.

Daria Saville: Oh, I'm saying Nicole Pratt because I actually thought about it before.  She's great.

Daniel Kiernan: I think and you can tell her this, but I might have to apologise afterwards. I think I text her before I think somebody passed me her number at around the Australian Open. I don't think she got back to me.

Daria Saville: Thats funny, I will tell her. She´s quite busy to be fair.

Daniel Kiernan: I need to I need to check that but Carl Maes, my Performance Director of my academy in Spain and I think Carl met her in Australia earlier on in the year. So if you can, can you drop me her number and let her know that she's had the baton passed on to her and I will be getting in contact with her to get on. Dasha, you've been amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much. 

Daria Saville: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Daniel Kiernan: Come on then who's gonna watch Dasha Saville's Netflix show? I'm certainly signing up. What about you, Vicki? Have you got your hands up over there?

Victoria Kiernan: Well, I'm, I'm with Dasha there. Netflix have absolutely missed a trick by not having her on. How entertaining would she be?

Daniel Kiernan: The Dasha and KIG show? See, I can see it now. You know, speaking their minds. And and yeah, 

Victoria Kiernan: And a lot of bleeps going throughout.

Daniel Kiernan: But so refreshing and to hear, to hear the honesty, you know, like she says, it can be boring. And that's what we're probably taught, you know, people that have media training, you know, give the straight back to the answer. But the fact that she just spoke was such honesty. Once I gave her the go ahead that it was okay to swear then it started to come out in the numbers. But yeah, but I think showing that vulnerability, showing where she wasn't in such a treat in some ways. And that's a funny thing to say when we've got an injured tennis player on the shore. But it is also fresh tell it happened three, four weeks ago, she's just had the operation. She's a very early stages of her rehabilitation, to sort of get her mindset in that moment, really felt like an honour to be able to, to delve into into her mind at this point in her recovery.

Victoria Kiernan: And look, you guys talked about it. We are used to seeing the players behave in such a professional manner. Not all of them, but I think the women pretty you know are very, very good at that and a lot of the press conferences I've been saying to you, are almost a bit redundant now, like the same things are said post-match all the time. It's really nice to hear a very honest, refreshingly honest take on the women's tour. Because we don't, we don't really get that, we don't get that insight.

Daniel Kiernan: And the one, it was a few weeks ago, she she put up a social media post. And I'm glad she brought it up on the on the chat, because she did and she got a lot of heads turned, because she was so honest about what she said about the challenges she was having a grand slam, you know, and I think we sit back and we look at how these players are turning up to play these events, and how amazing it is to play at Wimbledon and US Open and Australian Open. And it is but the tennis players aren't necessarily trained and, you know, my relatively rubbish career, I managed to play Wimbledon a couple of times, and you're just not ready for it, you really aren't, you know, just the, the number of people that are getting in touch with you,  the circus that goes on around, that's just me playing in the doubles event. You know, imagine being someone who is seeded, you know, obviously, the superstars, that's their life. But I think the fact that she opened up that topic, because sometimes in this world, we just need a topic to be opened for someone else to feel better about themselves, that it's normalised. And she brought that topic up, she talked about the challenges, it was kind of contradictory to what she had said previous about how she loved the big stage. But she explained it well. And you know, ultimately, the circus around she hasn't quite found a way to manage those expectations on those, on those stages. But who at home has ever thought of that? Probably nobody. So hopefully, just the fact that she's brought that to the forefront, gets us talking about it and gets us also thinking and empathising, a bit more with these professional players than sometimes we do.

Victoria Kiernan: But the big stage doesn't always have to be the Grand Slams, it could be just playing against a big name player on the Centre court at one of the other tournaments. I kind of understood what she meant there in terms of her expectations at the Slams compared to the other events. And another really interesting topic for me, which again, she was really open about was her diagnosis with ADHD, and a late diagnosis really, only in the last few years. But yeah, as you said, when you think about being a tennis player, you're thinking about focus concentration. And I think it's, it's a really good message for people to be hearing, you know, she's made it to this high up in the game in the women's game, with undiagnosed ADHD, you know, she's now on medication, which helps her, which she says has been really helpful. But I think having that diagnosis can sometimes give you a little bit more understanding of who you are, and gives some explanation about some of the things that you might you know, some of the positives, some of the things you might be struggling with. Even hearing her describe some of the things that she struggled with forgetting shoes, forgetting strings, forgetting her passport on the plane, you know, having lots of different you know, come on, you've got to focus, you've got to focus, how often do you hear that on the tennis court. Concentrate, concentrate, I think that's what my Dad used to say to me that more than anything during a match. But with someone in a position that that Dasha is in, talking about ADHD and high level sport, I think it raises awareness, people might be listening and think, Oh, actually, I'm seeing some of those behaviours in my child or I'm seeing some of those behaviours in myself. Yeah, her being so open about those things, I think can only be a good thing and raising awareness, and also incredibly inspiring, you know, she's got to where she is, despite that.

Daniel Kiernan: I was speaking with someone the other day, and they were telling me about Chris Martin, the, the lead singer at Coldplay, and he had given his endorsement to a brand. And they were saying that, that endorsement, there was the value of 20 million euros. Now, Dasha, if you're listening, I'm not saying you're quite as big as Chris Martin from Coldplay. However, the endorsement of and the normalisation of turning out to be as Dasha is, you know, delightful young woman who is who was doing incredibly well on the tennis court being top 20 in the world. And in doing that, like you said, despite having ADHD, and I always think and I know lots of kids that have dyslexia and, you know, they think that maybe they're not able to achieve things and then you go on, you go, well, Albert Einstein had dyslexia. Richard Branson Whoopi Goldberg. You know, if you go on Google and you put it in, you see, you see a massive list. And what that does is all of a sudden for the child, ah, well, if that person has that, and they can achieve what they've achieved, and so, so can I. So we all need those normalised stories, we all need to have something that we can equate to, and that can go into race that can go into the gay community that can go into a quality, you know, seeing the first woman linesman, or the first woman referee with men's, men's football in the Premier League, you know, whatever it might be, we start to mirror and see something that we are. So so the more that people can get their stories out there, the more that people can speak with such honesty, that the bigger the impact that it has. And and I just I thank Tasha for that, you know, to speak about that. So honestly, she didn't need to bring that up. But she did. And I hope that there's there's a few of you that are listening that this can have a really positive impact on.

Victoria Kiernan: And how impressive was the mindset as well, dealing with this injury her second ACL injury and I think it's almost harder a second time because you are going into it in some ways, because you know what's coming, you know, what lies ahead of you. But she just seems so positive. You know, she said she is having bad days feeling sorry for herself. But there is an opportunity to find something outside of tennis.

Daniel Kiernan: I'm just having a little little laugh because we started the the episode with in the middle of difficulty lies opportunity by Albert Einstein. Very good. And at that point, obviously, I didn't know about the ADHD, I didn't know that Dasha was going to talk about that. But again, that's a nice little link. And, you know, that's very much, you know, a similar sort of thing to, you know, what I've heard, and I like to use, it inspires me is this, you know, if something bad happens, say the word good, you know, because there is going to be opportunity within it. And I just, I like to link this I think Vicki into what I don't think we necessarily do great in our industry and that diversifying, you know, so no, it's certainly something I thought a lot about during the pandemic. It's like, Well, I'm a tennis coach, but I can't get on the tennis court. So what else can I do? You know, and it's, it's, it's very, it's a big challenge when you put yourself in that position. And I think our industry does pigeonhole us in sometimes to just tennis, tennis, tennis tennis. And I use the example in the chat on Gary Neville. You know, the the famous Manchester United and England footballer who he looks back and we spoke about this in the in the episode that the injury has big injury was the best thing that's ever happened to him. Because he went and learn about the housing market. He went and purchased his first few properties. He took media training, he did his coaching courses. And what it did was it diversified his options when he then stopped playing the game. And how many athletes and tennis players specifically for this podcast, get to the end of their career and go, ah, what now? And you know, Dasha has spoken anyone that doesn't follow Dasha on social media do. She's absolutely hilarious. She's got it. She's got it in abundance. She really does she, she just cracks me up. You know, she's got, she's got the X factor when it comes to that.

Victoria Kiernan: I now do, you talked about so often and after listening to your chat, I went straight on Instagram, I don't have Tick Tock, but went straight on Instagram. And yeah, I've watched about six or seven of her reels and videos now and they are very funny.

Daniel Kiernan: She's brilliant. She's absolutely brilliant. So she's a natural. But for her to go and open some of those doors, you know, then I'm sure she will over the next few months. Because tennis playing is a relatively small career. You know, it really is. And, you know, hopefully Tasha will play into her mid 30s. But not many do. You know, and they say the average amount of time on the professional tours six or seven years. You know, so we're at a tennis academy, like the SotoTennis Academy. We're trying to prepare the kids before their tennis careers, for what's going to happen after their tennis careers. And then you've got the bit when your tennis career is happening, to make sure that you are also preparing and nobody wants to be injured. It's not putting a big a big smiley face over the injury. But it is saying right this is now opening up the time for me to be able to develop other skills, spend time with friends, spend time with friends, spend time with family and and come out of the other end as someone who is in a position to diversify their options when they finish their playing career. And that will be my advice. Dasha I know that you will absolutely be doing it anyway, youre switched on. Thank you for for your time. And hopefully everyone listened to that with a big smile on their face, took lots of notes down. Apologies again for some of the some of the colourful language let's say, but that's also that's okay for you guys as well to keep you awake. 

Victoria Kiernan: And lets start campaigning for a series 2 of the Netflix documentary to get her on!

Daniel Kiernan: Absolutely. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables.