#200: Sir Andy Murray - A British Sporting Icon

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Andy Murray  00:09

This is Andy Murray on Control the Controllables.

Daniel Kiernan  00:13

And a big welcome to Episode 200. We told you that we were going to get someone special for this very special Episode 200, 3 and a half years into Control the Controllables. And welcome Sir Andy, and also a massive welcome to you. If this is your first time listening to the podcast, or if you are back for more, and you have been with us from the beginning, we are so excited to bring you this amazing episode. And I just want to take a little bit of an opportunity here whilst I've got you. One, liking, sharing, rating, reviewing, sharing these podcasts far and wide massively help us in our pursuit of continuing to bring great guests. And also just to reconnect with why we set these podcasts up three and a half years ago. It was during the challenging pandemic period. We wanted to give something back to the tennis community, we wanted to energise people, we wanted to entertain people with amazing stories, and we wanted to educate through the medium of tennis coaches, tennis players, people in the tennis world, and start to dig a little bit deeper into it. And we have loved the journey. So far, it's taken us to this point where we have our 200th episode, and I genuinely have to say, when I dreamt about who we could get onto this podcast, the number one person I always had in my mind was Andy Murray. And you might ask the question, why? Because we could try and get Roger Federer, we could try and get Rafael Nadal. There's so many big names in the sport. Well, I want to try and explain it a little bit. I was thinking about it today, and it's you know, Andy's been such a big part of my life and, and so many of our lives for so many years. And when I was a professional tennis player, he was on the up. And that's when the connection started all of those years back. But I felt I could relate to him, you know, a small town, cold winters, you know, always have that feeling of having to move down south in the UK to get competitive opportunities, to get training opportunities. It felt to me like it was something different. It was something we hadn't seen before in British tennis, you know. We'd always had people in British tennis that fitted the mould of what a tennis player was meant to be. And then the breakthrough, you know, he started to break through people at first, they didn't get him, but I always felt that I did you know, he was someone who was unique. For me the biggest uniqueness he had is he he never put ceilings in the way that I think so many of us in British tennis over the years have and he was this young Scottish kid. He was tough. He was ready, ready to rumble, ready to get stuck in and sometimes that maybe came across a little bit brash. However, there was a heart of gold that was in there and we started to see that, the vulnerable side started to come out and then we cried with him. You know 2012 when he lost to Roger Federer at Wimbledon, we all cried, Andy cried, you know, we then celebrated with him and then we cried even more when he won the Olympics than the US Open, then went on to win Wimbledon. And here he was this young lad from a small town in Scotland. It has so much history for many reasons. And he ruled the world and a sport like tennis and the sport had changed forever. And then we lost him, we felt that his body had gone, his hip had gone. And almost the biggest credit we can give Andy Murray behind all of those trophies is the resilience, the grit, the way that he's been able to put this career back together. He's back into the top 40 in the world when nobody thought he could do it with a metal metal ball in his hip, but he has, and he's taught us so much. And then the family man came out. And then he started to then attack bigger picture things like quality, and he continues to inspire on and off the court.  In my opinion, Sir Andy Murray will go down as the greatest ever British male athlete, but what an honour it was to spend time talking through his career, talking about his family, and so much more. And I want to introduce you to our 200th episode. To the 11th time Grand Slam finalist, the three time Grand Slam winner, winning twice at Wimbledon, the Davis Cup winner with Great Britain, the double gold medalist and former world number one, Sir Andy Murray.  So, Sir Andy Murray, a big welcome to Control the Controllables. How're you doing?

Andy Murray  05:14

Yeah. Good. Thank you. How are you?

Daniel Kiernan  05:16

I'm very well, Andy. We've had your coaches on the show. We've had your mum on the show, we've had your brother on on the show, we've had your fitness coaches on the show. We've had your friends on the show, but it finally took your Father-in-law Nigel Sears to come on, before we could persuade you to come on to Control the Controllables, so I guess we know who wears the trousers in your relationship? Andy?

Andy Murray  05:43

Yeah, yeah. Got got to keep Nigel. Sweet. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  05:47

So a big thank you, and to the listener, Nigel Sears is Episode 197. It's a brilliant episode as well. But Andy, I want to jump into lots of things and I know we don't have loads of time. But I think to start with here you are, you're in the middle of another epic trip away from home, but you seem like you're still absolutely loving it out there.

Andy Murray  06:10

Yeah, I mean, I do. I think, you know, one of the things that quite a lot the players as they get older struggle with is like, the travelling side of things. And I actually, I still really enjoy that, you know, I love travelling the world and going to, you know, usually it's cities that we've been to beforehand, but sometimes, you know, get to experience new tournaments, new places. And you know, a lot of the cities, we get to go to some of the best cities in the world. So I still really enjoy that aspect of it. It's hard being away from the, you know, the family for a long, long trips, but, you know, like, my family are coming out to New York for 10 days in the middle of the trip to sort of split it up a little bit, which, which obviously, helps.

Daniel Kiernan  06:56

Does it feel different this time around? You know, because you kind of got to the point where it felt like your career was maybe over, and it's almost like bonus time? Does it feel different as a feel like you're able to enjoy the cities a little bit more, and remove yourself from just being Andy Murray, the tennis player?

Andy Murray  07:14

Yeah, I mean, I think it's something that I don't know if it's the case for all of the players, but certainly, yeah, I wasn't as curious about going out and seeing the cities when when I was younger, like, I pretty much would arrive, you know, go to the hotel and just split my time between the hotel and the tennis courts. Whereas Yeah, as I've got a little bit older, and maybe sort of spent more time away from the, the sport, like, started to realise, like how fortunate you are to get to go to these places and try now to, you know, spend a little bit more time seeing some of the sights and going to museums and things like that, which I never did at all, when when I was younger. So yeah, I'm actually I don't know if it's like enjoying it more, but just sort of going outside the tennis bubble a little bit.

Daniel Kiernan  08:09

And what about when that comes to competing, because I guess, it could go one of two ways, in some ways that this is that I've got, I've got these extra years, I can now just go and play with a freedom. Yet, you're arguably the greatest competitor, or one of the greatest competitors to ever play the sport, and the time that you're about to finish is getting nearer. Does it go the way of being able to play with more freedom? Or does it feel like shit, I've, I've got to do it now I've got to do it now and it applies even more pressure?

Andy Murray  08:43

In that respect, it still feels the same to me. You know, I'm certainly more aware of the, like, having less opportunities, you know, to come back and you know, play at Wimbledon, or, you know, any of the majors really, you know, I don't know how many more times I'm gonna get the chance to do that. So maybe, you know, after those tournaments, you feel the disappointment a little bit more because, yeah, you know, you might only have one or two chances left to play there if, you know if you're lucky. So I didn't think about those things as much again, when, when I was younger, like, you know, when you're 20 you're not thinking about, you know, Wimbledon in 15 years time and you're sort of religious on to the next tournament, whereas Yeah, I'm a bit more aware of like, the timeframe that I have left to play with now.

Daniel Kiernan  09:38

And in terms of in terms of that as well if we almost split your career into those into those two periods going to pre big ops and and post the game itself the men's the men's game. Two full question, Andy, what's changed in the last five, six years in your in your opinion, and what stayed the same and Almost you think we'll just stay the same and see the test of time and in the men's game?

Andy Murray  10:06

Well, I think there's more players that are there serving, serving bigger now and are serving a higher percentage of first serves in and I think that's because players are getting taller. And it feels like to me. And yeah, my observation of like, the younger generation is that, yeah, they're a little bit bigger, they're moving, all of them are moving extremely well, but have sort of longer levers than than the previous generation and they have bigger strengths. But maybe, maybe some more obvious weaknesses. You know, if I think to players like for and Nalbandian, those guys that were kind of at the top of the game, when I was coming through, there was a lot of those types of players were very solid all round. Whereas I would say no, that there's more players that, you know, have a big first serve and a big forehand, but maybe a little bit weaker on the backhand side, or maybe don't quite have the, you know, the same returns and hand skills. It's not to say that, you know, there's some of the top young players know, maybe have better backhands and forehands but it just to me, it seems like there's bigger strengths, but maybe slightly more obvious weaknesses than the than the previous generation.

Daniel Kiernan  11:37

Yeah, make makes absolute sense. I can think of a few players off the top of my head, as well.

Andy Murray  11:42

Yeah, I mean, I think and that's why like, for me, like our careers, Stan's. He's an amazing player. And regardless of generations, he'd be winning all the time, anyway, or right up at the top of the game. But for me, that's the thing that stands out about him is that he has an old court game, he doesn't have an obvious weakness that you can go to on the court, like, you know, someone like Novak would have. And I think he's, he's one of the few guys, you know, of the younger generation that has all of those tools.

Daniel Kiernan  12:13

Because it feels now there's there's a lot to do a match up. You know, as an example, the ones that jumped in my mind, like Medvedev has the perfect game to beat sinner. But then an Alka razzes got the game to be able to disrupt Medvedev, and then you've got, you seem to have these different matchups that are starting to form depending very much on who's got what strengths to attack, what weakness, I guess.

Andy Murray  12:39

Yeah. And I think that that's, again, for me, that is where Alcaraz, I think over time, he will be very adaptable to the opponents and the surfaces and everything. And, you know, he'll he'll definitely lose matches, but I don't think you'll see guys with like, 56770, head to head records against him, whereas, yeah, like you mentioned some of the matchups, those players that just, yeah, there's just clear match ups that, you know, don't don't favour. One, one of the guys and maybe you had that in the previous generation, but I'd say like Roger and Rafa Novak is that, you know, when those guys were playing against each other, yes, there was depending on surface and everything would affect the head to head but, you know, they were winning a lot against each other. It wasn't it wasn't totally one sided in any of those matchups.

Daniel Kiernan  13:37

Andy, I want to jump into I want to jump into your your upbringing a little bit. But before that, you're you're 25 and 12 on the year 2023. You know, you've you've had a good year, there's been matches that I'm sure you feel have been left out there that could have turned a good year into a great year. But what's what's your analysis of 2023 so far for Andy Murray and, and what are your realistic goals that you have for the rest of the year?

Andy Murray  14:10

Yeah, I mean, this year has been pretty up and down. I struggled a lot through the clay court season I really, obviously the surfaces more challenging for me, but I really didn't, I just didn't, I didn't play well. I didn't feel comfortable on the clay at all this year, and that sort of coincided with really a sort of lack of consistency and the coaching front during that period. I didn't really have anyone around me consistently during that sort of six, seven week period. You know, and I sort of lost my way a little bit in that part of the season. And then yeah, the rest of the year like the beginning of the year. I got through a lot of matches that maybe I shouldn't have, you know, I want a bunch of matches from, you know, match points down and really tough person Questions. And then, you know, maybe like recently, like last week against threats, I lost that match where I had, you know, a bunch of opportunities and probably the same at Wimbledon as well against Citypass. as well. So yeah, it's been it's been up and down a couple of results here and there really could have, you know, could have changed things I did feel like the draw had opened up a little bit at Wimbledon. For me how they got through that match was set to pass but wasn't to be and yeah, we'll see what happens the rest of the year. But I definitely you know, the last last week, I played much better tennis in terms of the way that I need to play if I if I want to win the big matches. So hopefully, I can continue on that on that path.

Daniel Kiernan  15:45

But taking you back, all of these years, I think it's pretty well documented. And always on the podcast, we talked about the start in tennis now. We've had your mom on, she's told us about how you started in tennis. So we don't need to delve into that too much. We know that you had a tennis coach, Mom, we know that you had an older brother, we know that, you know that it was a very typical tennis story, I guess starting at the tennis club. But the bit that I've always been fascinated with you Andy is your arm a few years older than you but I was around that that sort of time. And and I think the typical British tennis player at that time was quite, quite soft centred, you know, we didn't really have any big role models, you know, Tim and Greg, were there. But there were a little bit kind of on a pedestal and almost away from us. And then all of a sudden, this incredible competitor appeared that just seemed to be hungry that have this drive the, the I admire so much about your tennis, but your ability to dig deep and find ways in matches, it was almost like we'd never seen that from a British tennis player. I certainly hadn't seen that from a British tennis player for a long time. Where did that come from?

Andy Murray  16:56

Or I think it I mean, it's difficult to know exactly where it came from. I really do think that growing up with, you know, a brother, who was also in the sport is, you know, my jam is 50 months older than me, and he you know, he was a really, really good Junior through until sort of 1415 years old. And just competing with him like as, as a kid, you know, he used to beat me at everything. When when I was little, and I see it in my own children that, you know, the younger ones. They seem to be the more competitive ones, because you get used to losing a young age, and it's extremely frustrating. And you're always wanting to beat your siblings or be able to do what they're doing. And yeah, because, yeah, so much of our upbringing was in sports. So it wasn't just tennis, we play with each other. It was golf, football, you know, table tennis, any of the games that we used to play around the house. You know, Jamie was always just that he was always a little bit better than me a little bit faster, stronger, smarter. So he would beat me a lot when we were kids. And my feeling is is that by, you know, that that is what used to drive me to improve and get better at things or trying to beat my my older brother. And yeah, and then it just became, you know, normal for me was like trying to figure out ways to, you know, to win and get better. And, you know, took me until we were about 910 years old before I started, you know, getting the better of them at tennis. But that's that's my feeling of where it you know, where where it came from, but I'll never know for sure.

Daniel Kiernan  18:48

And when you reflect now at 36 years old, on the horrendous event that happened back in 1996 in Dunblane, that at the school that you were at. Do you think that had an impact that, that the trauma that you went through the the then togetherness of other town that comes together? Do you think, you know, we often look at success stories? This seems to be some traumatic event that has happened. I don't know how you've reflected on that over the years.

Andy Murray  19:18

Yeah, I mean, again, I don't know my memories from like, from that time, you know, are not are not great. Yeah, I mean, obviously, what happened and Dunblane was yeah, it was. Yeah, it was horrific. You know, but then also like, at that time, there was a three quite major events like in my life at that time, which was obviously Dunblane quite soon after, you know, our parents separated and then very soon after that Jamie moved away to had to Cambridge, away from home. And, you know, as I was just saying, like, I used to do everything with Jamie like, as as children it was, yeah, we, we were I would say we're probably reluctantly, best friends and you know, like, we're fighting obviously a lot as siblings, but we did everything together. And then when he moved away as well, like that was also, you know, that was really difficult, you know, really difficult for me, because, yeah, it totally changed. You know, what, what my life was like, at home as well. And yeah, I missed him a lot. Which probably at the time, like, you know, when you're a kid, you just kind of you sort of get on with things and you adapt to stuff. But yeah, I think that, you know, all of those events like in quick succession, were not not easy.

Daniel Kiernan  21:02

And how cool is it that you've then gone on to have the careers you've had together as well and walking on the court represent in the country? It's, it's just an unbelievable story. And the other thing from that time you mentioned about your parents separating? We all know your mom, you know, she's incredible tennis coach and incredible driving force, a terrible dancer, but somebody who we've all we all had to watch. But your dad not so much. And you know, your dad hasn't been in the limelight as much we obviously see him at your at your matches, how big of an influence has he been on your on your career?

Andy Murray  21:39

Well, again, like, when we, when we were growing up, it was both of our parents were massively into sport. And just being active, so like, you know, our dad played a lot of golf. So me and Jamie would, that's what we'd be doing, like an evenings with him, or you would play in squash leagues, or five aside football leagues, and five or so football teams. And, you know, we would tag along to all of those things. And we're just constantly like, yeah, just active, and trying different things and trying different sports, because of, you know, because of our parents, and, you know, a mum was more sort of, I'd say, like, the racquet sort of sports side of things, she would play badminton, and she would, you know, play tennis. You know, whereas the golf and football and those things were more we do that more with her dad. And I think that all of a lot of our holidays, as well, were all like centre parks and that sort of stuff, where we would just go with Yeah, we just played games like that was that was what we did. And, you know, they obviously gave up a lot of their sort of free time, at weekends driving us, you know, down to England for tennis tournaments. They were they were called, like, Adidas challenges or something at the time, where you, you know, drive up on a Friday night play matches on Saturday, like two matches on a Saturday to match on a Sunday and drive home. And yeah, both of them. Yeah, gave up a lot of a lot of their free time, you know, to help and allow me and Jamie to do what, what we did. And I think like, as a parent, though, like, it's one of the things that I have, like, reflected on, like, if it was my kid who was like, 13, like, would I be happy sending them away to go and play tournaments in America? Or, you know, when I was 15? Like, I went, obviously, over to live in Spain? Like, would I be comfortable with my own children doing that? Would I be happy with them going away to South America for five weeks? And, yeah, like, it's a big sacrifice that they, you know, made for us and, you know, allowed us to pursue our dreams and, you know, kind of let go in a way, you know, obviously, my mom has always been around the tennis tour and stuff, but it wasn't like she was travelling over to South America with us and going to all of these tournaments. And I think it must, must have been really hard. I can only imagine how difficult I would find that myself. So yeah, both of them gave up a lot to allow us to do what, what what we've gone on to do.

Daniel Kiernan  24:24

It's certainly not an instant gratification job being a parent, you know, it takes a it takes a long time. And we've all said we've almost got to live it ourselves. And the other one, Andy, when I think of you and then what's your career, that kind of unbelievable competitor jumps out, but the other thing that jumps out to me is your tennis IQ. And if I go back to a conversation I had with your mum actually, and I think you would have been maybe 12 or 13, maybe a little bit older, but I was speaking to her at a tournament in Glasgow and I remember really vividly because at that point If you were on my radar already, you know, I think you'd want orange ball or you've done something, you know, you were starting to make some moves. And that weekend, Britain, were playing a Davis Cup tie. And it was like group two, or it was on the BBC. And I remember your mom saying to me, no, no, no Andy's, and He's different. He's not watching the British ties, he'll be on sky watching Spain against France. You know, and it was like this on a clear court, you know, it was, it was something along those lines. Then, if I share a quick story with the listener in Indian Wells this year, I went back to the club way back to the hotel, went back to the club, because I thought it was this amazing evening of tennis Alcatraz, Draper Ratnakar, new against fiamme tech, and got the ticket, the player the coaches ticket, walked into the box, and there was three other people there. And you just you'd lost the jack the day before. And there you were sat, sat there watching Draper against Alcatraz to learn. We also your interview last week, we saw you on centre court watching Alcaraz and jurkovich. In the final, it seems like that's been in your blood from an early age watching tennis, learning about tennis, wanting to understand the game better, you know, how early do you think? And how did that get into your blood from such a young age?

Andy Murray  26:23

Well, I think from a young age, we were like, we're allowed to just like, we're allowed to compete. So it didn't matter what age you were playing against, but I would often play against like, you know, kids that were four or five years older than I was, we would sometimes play in the local sort of tennis club, like, matching matches, so we play like doubles against some of the other, you know, some of the other clubs in the area, you know, when we were, you know, really quite young, and we're playing against, you know, 3040 year olds, so obviously, clearly, we can compete by, you know, matching them for strength and power, but you're having to find ways to win, you know, by, by guests being smarter than them and using, you know, different shots, and, you know, using lobs and angles, rather than just trying to hit the ball harder. And I did find that a lot, actually, when I moved over to Spain. Because, again, I was always training with grown men most of the time, you know, I was only 15, that I couldn't match them, you know, for strength that I had to play a slightly different way to, you know, to win against them and compete. And physically, I wasn't very strong, to be honest, like, as a junior player, like, you know, I was pretty thin, you know, probably didn't look like, you know, a great athlete at the time. So, you know, I had to use, like, my brain and my, you know, my hand skills to try and beat these, you know, these these these men basically. And yeah, I think it's probably a combination of those things like, you know, playing up age groups and playing against older, you know, older peoples. And since I was really young, I think it's probably helped that because you can't, you couldn't just win by, by brute force, you had to find, you had to find a different way. And I also, I did watch loads of tennis when I was young, like I used to, I was out injured ones. Again, when I was 1516, I was out with my knee injury for like six months, and I used to, you know, sit when all the matches, were on Sky Sports. And I would sit in front of the TV and like, watch, like, five, six hours of tennis in a row when I couldn't, you know, train or do much rehab and take notes on all of the players and stuff and how I would play against them. And, you know, it helped a lot when I actually got on the tour because a lot of those guys, I'd been watching them since I was you know, 1415 years old. I've been watching them for four or five years and taking notes on them. That the one guy and I never got to play him in a match, but I loved watching him when I was a kid was Korea. And I got to practice with him once or twice when I was in Barcelona, he came to the academy where I was at to train. And I he may see this differently, but I could just see what he was going to do. Like I was reading exactly what he was going to do when we were practising with each other and, you know, I was able to win against him when I was on the 16th or so. You know, to have all my friends around the court that were at the Academy like no on hard. Unfortunately, not on not on clay. But yeah, like I just Yeah, I loved I loved watching and found that side of the game, you know, really, really interesting and actually probably a waste I'd been able to do it and more over these last sort of seven, eight years like, actually have the time to sit down and watch matches in the stands and, you know, learn a little bit more, because it definitely helps.

Daniel Kiernan  30:13

Because how different is it, and I believe it's massive, to watch the whole match and understand the context, understand the ebbs and flows understand people's patterns under pressure, people's behaviours under pressure than it is right now. There'll be a lot of kids that watch tennis, but they're watching tennis TV, on Instagram, they're watching the the underarm surf the fruit of the leg shot, they're watching the highlight reel, which is so so different to watching a full tennis match.

Andy Murray  30:44

Yeah, and I think one of the problems with with that is that, but yeah, when someone hits an under arm serve, and I've hit a few in the last couple of years, and you know, with, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, you know, when a three leg shot, when someone pulls that off, like, yeah, it's brilliant, it's great to watch. But the percentage of points that players actually win when they do that sort of stuff, you know, in my opinion is very low. And you could see someone try five and a match and the win one, and that's what everyone sees on the highlights package, not the other five through the leg shots that they butchered or when they've hit an underarm serve. And, you know, the players just run up to and hit a winner or the double faulted with it or whatever. And yeah, and generally that Alkar as is probably an exception, because most points that he plays are a highlight. But, you know, what tends to win matches is, you know, the consistency and, you know, repeating, like, you know, high percentage tennis over and over again and executing that under pressure not, you know, hitting one through the leg shot here and there doesn't work the majority of the time. So it's probably is a bit of an issue with the way that people see tennis know, on social media, like, yes and fun. I like watching it. But watching a three hour tennis match in the various viewpoints are like that.

Daniel Kiernan  32:10

Absolutely. And one of one of the most impressive stats I think you have Andy is 11 Grand Slam finals, not many people talk about that 11 Grand Slam finals, three wins three grand slams, double gold medalist, world number one, Davis Cup winner, you know, and there's there's been so many amazing tennis players over the years, but they haven't reached that kind of immortality level of doing those things. And you're one of a very select few that have in all, there's not a magic secret potion. And all it's not quite as simple as that. But what is it? What is it when you reflect on that? Because we take the new comers, Alkar, as we've talked about, he's got it. He's got it, she on tech, she's got it, you know that there hasn't been that many. So going from being an amazing tennis player to being those ones that year in year out or making Grand Slam finals, winning Grand Slams that you have done? What would you put that down to

Andy Murray  33:16

those certain players that they are the artists that are special and have like and have everything? But yeah, the thing that probably separates the top top players? Yes, is probably the mind. And I know people say that, you know a lot. I often see it used just based on, like, someone's mind mindset during a match or an important moment in the match. But to me, there's a lot more to it than just that it's, you know, how did these players like? How did they deal with losses? Like how do they? How do they learn from setbacks, how is their mentality like, every single day during the year, like when they're training and when they're, you know, by the cutting session short in the gym, or they, you know, out partying when they should be in bed, you know, sleeping and preparing for, you know, the next day's work. And, you know, it's not as simple as just or that that person is really good, like, you know, under pressure, or, you know, when the the third set tie break, that's what everyone sees on the, on the TV or when they're watching in the stands, but to me, it's like, the thing that separates the top top ones is that they're able to do that, like day after day, like consistently, year after year. And that's why Yeah, that the guys that have been up at the top of the game, you know, certainly during my era, you know been what's incredible what they've done, because it He can work extremely hard for 10 years, and you know, be right on it for all those 10 years. And as soon as you drop off for six months, and you're not focused, you know, on your practices, and you're not doing all the right things away from the core and your training and everything, you aren't going to stay there. And that's what's been amazing to me about what Novak and Rafa and Roger have done. Yeah, it's just that longevity of clearly loving the game, but being able to just, you know, work hard and focus on their talents for such a long period. It's not that you can enjoy other things. It's not that you can enjoy life, you know, you solely have to focus on tennis, it's just when you show up to the practice court, are you working hard? Are you are you putting in the right? The right effort? And when you show up to the tournament, so are you giving your best and, yeah, it's very different to what a lot of people, I think, when they talk about mindset and mentality, it's often just about what happens on the match core. And to me, what separates the great athletes and the great players, it's what they're doing away from the core as well, consistently, day after day when there isn't anyone watching and that's arguably the harder part of it.

Daniel Kiernan  36:19

And you need a complete obsession to do that.

Andy Murray  36:25

For me, obsession is probably a is an unhealthy word. And at times, I probably got that wrong during my career. And I wish at times that, you know, I had taken a step back and, you know, enjoyed successes a little bit more and taken a bit more time off, and those sorts of things. That is also a skill in itself as well to be able to do that. You know, and I wish I had been better at that, during my career, I at times would have been like too hard on myself or after, you know, a really good week, like, just straight on to the next tournament and not enjoying like, you know, the winds or being too hard on myself after, you know, a difficult loss. The thing I'm proud of is my my work ethic and what I've put into, you know, my career, like, I'm glad I did all the hard work. I wish at times, though, I'd been able to take a step back and see now it's time to, you know, it's time to rest and you know, take a little break. And yeah, I don't think you need to be obsessed with the sport, you know, to get those results. But I do think you know, you have to have lots of dedication to be up there for for a long period.

Daniel Kiernan  37:46

When we talk about mindset, Andy, there's just two things I've always wanted to ask you. And it's two, probably quite defining moments in, in my tennis life if I'm honest. And I've kind of I think we all have especially British people, but you've obviously developed a lot of global fans over the years, but we've kind of a lot of us have lived our tennis lives through you. You know, because we've we've abroad are playing against you. You know we've we've we've watched you from afar. And there's two words that I want to touch on. One is belief, which i i think is a very powerful thing. I felt it very strongly playing against you. When you were coming through that you had it. I felt the same thing with Layton you were to when I played against him as a junior. I haven't seen that up close and personal that much. But it was the 2012 semi final Australian Open. You kindly invited myself Josh Ward hibbott. And Liam broady, they just won the men's doubles at the Aussie Open. The boys doubles as the Aussie Open and you invited us to come and sit in your box for the semifinal match against Novak and I sat there mesmerised. Like it's one of the best experiences of my tennis life and I I sat there the intensity of that match the the drama of that match and you one as you'll remember, the seven 6/3 set but it felt like you were riddled with doubt in that set, you know, nor that you hadn't really got over Novak in those big moments. And I felt like I witnessed something that day that your belief system. Something happened in your belief system, almost to the point where you were like, Oh my God, I've just gotten that set up to the point that then actually you switched off maybe for the start of the start of the fourth set. So I've always wanted to know what you took from that match because 2012 was when the real stuff when we're talking about you getting to the absolute top of the game started obviously finalists then at Wimbledon, winning, winning the Olympics, winning US Open then going on to win 2013 Wimbledon how impactful was was that match when you reflect back?

Andy Murray  40:02

Well, when I spoke to the Instagram thing with Novak during the pandemic, and a both of us agreed that of the matches that we've played against each other, that that was the best level of tennis that we played, you know, against each other. And I'd probably say like, up until that point, it wasn't like, not played any good matches in, you know, the latter stages of slams. But it's definitely one where I felt like a goner and sort of stuck to, you know, a game plan and, you know, played the way that was going to give me the, you know, the best chance of winning those matches, and, you know, I'd executed, you know, really, really, really well. You know, matches like that. 1012 years down the line. They look better now, when you see what Novak has gone on to do in Australia, and how difficult it has been to beat him there. But yeah, certainly at the time, it was like, Yeah, that was me playing someone like best tennis in you know, the latter stages of a grand slam against, yeah. one of if not the, you know, the best player in the world at the time on that surface. And, yes, I lost that just but, you know, it was a clear sign that I was I was really, really close and, you know, providing a cat, you know, doing the right things and, you know, working on the right things I was I was gonna get more chances to win, because, up till that point, I hadn't had loads of chances. You know, like, obviously, I've beaten Rafa at the US Open. But when I'd come up against Roger, or Novak, and the slams hadn't really got close before. And that was the first time that I'd really, you know, pushed them hard. And yeah, got got really close to the wind.

Daniel Kiernan  42:02

And then the second word for me is acceptance. And 2012. I think for me, again, the last two, Roger, it was actually my son's christening, and we were all sat around watching, watching the final. And you know, everyone was completely grasped by it all, but you then opened your heart to the world. You know, you showed that vulnerability, but I remember something you saying is maybe a couple of days later, you said that maybe you'd accepted that on that on that day, or on that period that you might never win a Grand Slam, you know, and that almost became when the floodgates then opened a little bit, which is one of my beliefs in the mind. Sometimes when something's too big, it's too We can't accept that we're never going to do it. It's so hard to get there. So how defining was that for you? Because it felt like you coming out to the world and speaking like that, and speaking with such vulnerability, you then went on to win the Olympics or soon after you then went on to win us open pretty much soon after. And then the next chance you got at Wimbledon, you then you then won Wimbledon on the back of that was that, again, how defining was that kind of acceptance moment? And that vulnerability moment?

Andy Murray  43:18

Yeah, when I lost that phone in 2012? Yeah. Definitely. Yeah, most like upset, disappointed, I'd been after a match. And it wasn't just like, on the court. I was like, really, really down after that. You know, for quite a few days, you know, and I'm not 100% sure of Roger said in his speech, but I'd heard a lot over this period, you know, when I'd got close to winning slams, it was like, ah, you know, don't worry, like one of these will come your way type things like you're going to win one, and it doesn't work like that. You've actually seen it in this in this generation, though, this degeneration after, you know, my one. So in between our careers, and my one that is very few players that have managed to win slams, and it was not easy, winning slams against those guys. And I was fine. You know, that was another thing that was, you know, making it you know, making it hard was that when I got to those major matches, Grand Slam finals, I was coming up against guys at one like, anywhere between six and 1415 grand slams, and it was tough. And yeah, I remember like a few days like after that match, obviously I had the Olympics with just a few weeks away and the experience that I'd had at the previous Olympics in Beijing, I totally blown it. Like I arrived there off the back of winning Cincinnati. I was probably one of the favourites going into it. And I got like completely carried away with I went to the opening ceremony I was, I think I was playing the following day, you know, hadn't drunk enough, I'd lost something like, weighed myself after my match I cramped and the first run and last and the first round of the Olympics. And I'd lost like five kilos since I'd arrived. And was so excited about being in the Olympics, and, you know, being part of the opening ceremony and, you know, meeting all the other athletes and that sort of stuff that, you know, just taking my eye off the ball, like, what I was actually there to try and do. And I promised myself that if I ever get the chance to do another Olympics, I'm going to do like everything to, you know, try and, you know, try and have a better experience, and try and win a medal. And off the back of that Wimbledon loss where I, you know, really don't and disappointed, like, three, two and a half, three weeks before the Olympics start. And I was like, Okay, this was a position you're in last time at the Olympics, we, you know, you need to get yourself back on the court and training again, and you're doing everything that you can, like, you can't put in more effort and more work than what you're doing. Like, if it happens, it happens if it doesn't like, it's okay. Because, yes, like winning tournaments, and winning majors, and all of that stuff is it is great. I'm not gonna say otherwise, it's brilliant. But not not everyone is able to do that. And what really matters, and I don't think this is just in tennis, but in all walks of life is that all you can ever do is give your best effort and try as hard as you can. You cannot, you can't do more than that. And at that moment, after Wimbledon, between the Olympics was where I probably accepted and realised that for the first time that like this might not happen, you might not win a Grand Slam, but you are doing everything that you can to give yourself the best chance to do that. And it's what happens that off the back of that, you know, I want the Olympic won the US Open. And it's easy to sit here today and say, Oh, it's just purely because I'd accepted, you know, that I might, you know, I might not do it. But I do think that having that sort of slight shift in mentality and mindset, you know, it did help me a little bit, it certainly helped me to get over the Wimbledon loss and helped me to prepare properly for the Olympics.

Daniel Kiernan  47:37

And the I could I could talk to you all night. And and I don't want to because we do we do a quick fire round to control the controllables I have so many other things I want to delve into. Maybe we do episode 300. So I'll maybe save save that for you as well. But I also want to do a little quick fire thing as well around the legend of Andy Murray and we you're still playing, you've still got your own story to tell us as a tennis player. So I don't want to go into fully the the legend of you yet but in in in four different categories and just almost give you the category and you to talk briefly on it. And when all is said and done with your playing career, you will be remembered massively for your achievements as in the men's game without a shadow of a doubt. But I've said this for a while now, I think arguably you will also be remembered as much in the women's game for the impact someone in your position, the way that you have spoken out the way that you have challenged people and from myself personally, you've definitely challenged me on on subtle sexism that's there that just I wasn't aware of, you know, but because you brought it up. And I remember the one, you know, reporter saying about somebody winning the grand slams. And then you mentioned Serena and you know, just those kinds of subtleties, you've made a massive difference. And in terms of you doing that, with that single mindedness that it takes to have had the career how have you found the time to be able to put the energy in to equality in the sport, and just very briefly talk about that and what we can do as a sport to bring that to the forefront even more.

Andy Murray  49:22

Well, I probably also wasn't really aware of it until I started working with Amelie Erasmo and also probably would have been guilty of some of the you know, the same sort of comments that you know, would have flown around like the men's locker room and stuff over the years as well and you know, never really I didn't pay much attention to I didn't think it was an issue. But then when I started working with Amelie was actually when I realised that, you know is actually a bit of a problem. You know, some of the stuff that Well, other players and their coaches were saying to me about her and about, you know, what, just women in general. And then the way that it was covered in the media, like after losses and stuff like, never ever see anything about really about cultures, you know of players when there's losses and things like that, but when I was working with Amelie, you know, that relationship was sort of under a lot more scrutiny. And, you know, I had heard it from my team as well, like, after losses as well, that it was like, she's not the right person for you, or whatever. And it's like, Well, why not? Like if I was working with a number one in the world? Former, what number one in the world male player, like, nobody would be questioning it. And then off the back of that, and some of the comments and stuff, I then sort of spoke to my mum a bit more about it, because my mum had, she'd sort of mentioned it to me and my brother a little bit about what it was like for her like, at times, but not really never really had many conversations about it, but then obviously had her that I could, you know, reach out to and say, Well, you know, what's it been, like, you know, that people are saying this, and, you know, asking these sorts of questions, and yeah, and then she was able to tell me like, yeah, like, you know, it's been has been really, really difficult. And, you know, my mum, she is amazing. You know, everything that she's done for, not just me and Jamie, but for British tennis. You know, she's been incredible and is still doing today. But yeah, she's she's obviously had her challenges as well. And I was fortunate to have her as sort of, yes, I know, I could, you know, really talk to about and, yeah, I to be honest, once once I became aware of it, I didn't feel like it was something that took up loads of energy, it was just something that once you became aware of it, it was like, you know, when someone would make a comment in press or asked me a question about something, like one of them was around American tennis, like, you know, not being great or something like that. And they've had like, you know, Serena, at that time, had won, like 20 Odd grand slams, it's like, whoa, like, hang on a second. You know, you're ignoring like the best tennis player of all time, pretty much to that moment. And it just becomes one. Once I became aware of it, I didn't feel like it took up much energy and just felt like any time I had the opportunity to support, you know, or speak up for women's tennis or the female coaches, like I've tried to do that.

Daniel Kiernan  52:55

Brilliant, and you've done an amazing job on it. The The next one is British tennis. You mentioned British tennis. I actually had a young stoechas, who was the performance director of Czech tennis, actually, I spoke to him a couple of days ago. He's on Episode 199, which was fascinating, you know, the Czech way that they've, they've had this kind of just conveyor belt of players, certainly on the women's side over the last 20 years. But General really interesting to hear. I've been in Spain for 13 years, you spent a lot of time in Spain, there's a very clearly defined way that Spanish tennis works. If you were the performance director for British tennis. What's the what's the first couple of things that you would implement?

Andy Murray  53:43

That's a good question. I mean, the simple answer is, I don't really know, I could give a few suggestions as to maybe some things that I wouldn't do, or things that I would support, because I experienced that bit myself as a player. And I've seen it quite a lot over the years and British tennis, which I really don't think is helpful. And I think we could do a much better job of is, for example, top young junior wins, Wimbledon juniors, for example. And let's say they've been training in, you know, their hometown in Manchester. There has always been like, it feels to me like, the governing body always wants to take that player and put them into their environment and have their cultures around them and have an element of control over that player. And my opinion is what should be happening with those players is that they should be getting supported in the environment where they've grown up. You know, it's not to say that their environment is necessarily perfect, but it can be very disruptive to a 1516 year old moving out have an environment that they're really comfortable with a culture that they're really comfortable with moving away from their parents, it's, I think it's quite a difficult time in lots of children's lives that, like, there's a lot going on those ages. And I feel like, that has happened a lot with our best young prospects. And I've heard a lot over the years of British tennis that, you know, we always have good juniors, but we always, you know, we struggle a lot to, you know, kick them on and push them up to the top of the game. And my feeling is, is that, you know, the individual should be supported to, to make the decisions that are right for them. And I feel like that would give those those players a better chance at having a more successful career by not having to change, you know, their training bases, and change their cultures, and those sorts of things like I have, when I was 15, I wanted to go over to Spain, that was my choice to go over and do that, and my family supported me, but the governing body didn't really support me at the time, you know, I was offered a place to train Sutton at the sort of national academy there at the time, and I didn't want to do it, I didn't, didn't like the setup, but I thought it'd be better to go to Spain, and I was offered everything to train a certain Phil, you know, training programme, you know, expenses, cultures, you know, paying to go to tournaments, all of that stuff. Whereas, by choosing to go to Spain, it was like, a third of the training costs were funded, you know, to go and train over there. And, you know, my family had to, we had to find sponsors and find, you know, money to go and train over there. And, again, that's one of the sacrifices that my parents made. And I'm very grateful for them, you know, for doing that, but I just, I feel like that happens quite a lot. And I still see it today that when someone does really well, or a young junior is doing well, it's rather than, like, gone, or brilliant, like, you know, their coach has done an excellent job, they're, you know, they're clearly doing great work with less support, that coach and the player, offer them like, advice and help with the, whatever, strengthen conditioning and nutrition, and, you know, all of those things, but let's not take them out of the environment where they're comfortable and are having success and are learning because it's also extremely demotivating for the coaches as well. Like, if I was working with a kid for like, four or five years, and as soon as they start to show promise, you know, look like there's a chance that they could become successful. And it's like, they just get picked out of that environment, as a coach and be like, that's, that's a bit shitty, like I've done all that work with them to get them to this point, and you've decided, like, we're the right people to, you know, take them on. So that's one of the things that I would change. And that's, that's purely from a performance side of things. There's clearly other things that probably could be happening, you know, grassroots level and, you know, schools and everything like that to try and help get more kids interested and into the game. But I don't know, because I don't spend enough time like looking at those sorts of things. I just know more from the performance side, what I've seen over the years, and that's probably the main thing that I would try to avoid.

Daniel Kiernan  58:20

Very good. My summary of speaking to Yan a little bit yesterday on the check system, is that the system adapts to the player, not the player adapting to the system. I think and I think that's in a nutshell what you've said, you know, that, you know, for many, many years, the the LTS system, the players being expected to adapt to the way that they work, you know, whether that's working with the coaches, whether that's location however it might be, and, you know, if there's maybe one thing we can take from the Czech system, and it's that that ability to adapt it so very good. The family name, the Murrays, you know, massive, massive name. in Nottingham, there was a lovely moment, I think it warmed all of our hearts, when there was a genuine, there was a genuine surprise that you kids were in the crowd watching you win that event, you know, which was, which was incredible. So, you know, how much motivation does that give to you in order to be able to have these experiences in front of your kids?

Andy Murray  59:23

Well, I thought that I really thought it would. And it was something like when my kids were they're still young, but when they were younger, that I was like, oh, it'd be nice to keep playing, you know, so that they will be able to potentially see me play, you know, Wimbledon or so they were old enough to understand what it is that I do for a living and they don't care. They really they really don't care and yeah, lies yet. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that but that's the thing is that as tennis balls There's like, certainly individual tennis players, I think we see things often through like, our own eyes and you know, at times can be, you know, selfish. And selfishly, like, I wanted that, probably more for myself than for them. Like, I was saying, like, it'd be nice if they could, you know, grow up and come and watch me play. But then, yeah, when they've come along to do it, like, they're really not interested in watching me play tennis, like the, you know, they're more interested in being in the Players Lounge afterwards, and, you know, laying on the table tennis table, or playing table football, or just playing hide and seek or whatever. And, yeah, maybe further down the line, you know, they might be like, oh, you know, that's quite cool that, you know, the dad was was was, was a good tennis player, but my family have been unbelievably, like, supportive and my wife and encouraging me to, like, keep playing and to, you know, to keep keep going. Which is made a huge help. If that wasn't the case, obviously, you know, I probably still wouldn't be out here. But yeah, I feel like rather than them being a motivating factor for me, like, I don't really know how to phrase this, but like, they're sort of, they're pushing me like to keep going rather than me sort of looking at my children and saying, Oh, this is why I'm still playing tennis. It's more that my family are being so supportive, and, you know, motivating me in a different way to get back out there and keep trying, keep going. And although it's a small thing, like one of the, I can't remember after which match it was, but it was at some stage and the last year, I'd come home and I'd lost. You know, in the tournament that I come back at, my daughter said to me, Oh, Daddy, did you like did you lose your tennis match? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I lost, you know, so that that's why I'm home early. type thing. And she was like, that's okay. Daddy, like you just keep working hard. And you tried. You try again. And yeah, I was happy that because I, you know, I try to tell that to them. And you don't always know where the kids are listening. But yeah, there's nice like to hear, you know, to hear that. How old's the eldest? Eldest is seven. And she's actually a all of them is the least interested? Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:29

Because I've often, I thought that my kids, they never really had any interest in my tennis or my coaching or my job or my things. But actually, I got a call tonight of my 12 year old he's in Germany playing tennis Europe actually, event. And he hardly ever calls. But he called because his mom had obviously told them I was speaking to you later. And he was like, how are you? You speaking to Andy Murray? He was he was like, how you doing? Have you done that? Event? You saw Jami? You're so lucky. Have you done that? So it's I think they're starting, they start to get a bit more street cred. When Yeah, you know, so he'll be telling all the evidence my dad speaking on the burrito, you know, I think it does maybe 11 or 12? It changes it changes a little bit. Maybe?

Andy Murray  1:03:18

I'm not sure. I'm not sure I'll still be going for five years.

Daniel Kiernan  1:03:23

As your motivation. Will they play tennis? If they do and if anyone doesn't know listening, not only would Andy Murray be the the tennis dad, but you would then have some pretty super grandparents, tennis grandparents behind those kids as well would? Would you like them to go down that route? Again, it's not about you, are they showing any signs that they will?

Andy Murray  1:03:48

So the two eldest ones play once a week for 45 minutes? And if it was something that they really wanted to do, then I would absolutely support them in doing that. I certainly wouldn't. I wouldn't push them towards, I will push them to be to be active and to try lots of different sports because I think so many benefits can come from sports and being part of sports teams and everything from Wall health perspective, and just learning a bit about life, like learning about winning and losing and those sorts of things. I think sports is brilliant for that. Yeah, I think yeah, for your mental health as well. And also, maybe, I certainly felt helped me but like when I was getting to, like 1314 years old, just sort of kept me away from doing silly stuff at times, like because I was going to my tennis coaching or my football clubs and those sorts of things. So I would definitely encourage them to you know, to try sports and to stay active and stuff but you know, not getting them to play tennis sort of four or five times a week. You know, it's just on the on the if they're enjoying it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:08

And you, Andy Murray, what do you want to be remembered for?

Andy Murray  1:05:16

I don't know. Really? I mean, I think, like I said, in the chat, like, for me, the thing that I will, I know, that I will be proud of, like, when I finished my career is that, yes, I have given pretty much everything that I have, like, from a physical perspective, like, to the sport like I've really, you know, given put a lot of a lot of hard yards and effort in. And I've been very fortunate, I've been very lucky to have the, you know, the career that I've had in tennis, I'm very grateful to tennis for, you know, providing me with, you know, with with that, and the chance to travel the world and do all those, you know, amazing things and go to incredible cities and play in front of massive crowds and stuff I've loved. It's been brilliant. But yeah, there's not something that I necessarily want to want to be remembered for just yeah, that, that I've given the given given my old to the sport, really.

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:23

And when the playing does end, none of us wanted to end. We're not talking about an ending anytime soon. What would be next Andy, Murray.

Andy Murray  1:06:32

Well, initially, I'll, you know, definitely spend way more time at home, I'm not going to rush into doing a job that means that I'm having to, like, I wouldn't want to coach full time on the tour immediately, like, I've said that to my my wife and my family, like, I do love being at home, like over that grass season, I was home for like, two months in a row and it was brilliant. And I also got that opportunity at times when I was injured in these last few years to just to be at home. And it's been brilliant and I do love that I love being a dad, I love being at home so that will definitely be my priority, initially. But I also don't want to sit and not do anything. Like during the days like when I'm home and the kids are at school for a couple of days it's nice, but by like Wednesday, midday, I'm like, I have to do something and like walking around the kitchen. I don't know what to do with myself. So I will definitely, you know, I'll get a job and I will work. But what that what that looks like I really am, I'm not sure. To be honest, I definitely won't do commentating, I know that, I definitely won't be doing any commentary work. I didn't enjoy doing that. And

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:58

Did you not?

Andy Murray  1:07:59

No,  I didn't enjoy doing it, didn't enjoy doing it. Too much talking, you know, you get a four hour match, there's not always something like there's not always something to say. And yeah, didn't really enjoy the commentary stuff. You know, one of the things that I you know, I probably would enjoy doing is like, analysing matches a little bit more. I think they do quite a good job of that in football like, you know, I follow football a lot and it's quite interesting. Like, Gary Neville and Jamie Redknapp do a really good job of like, getting their opinions out there, and often they're contrasting, and it works really nicely, I think. Whereas in tennis, I feel like when people are analysing, talking about matches that everyone just agrees with each other all the time. There's no real. Yeah, no, you know, I don't I don't agree with what you said there. And this is why and you know, I'm going to show you in this video why that's wrong. Like that side of things I find more interesting. Yeah, to get contrasting opinions out there and different views on on matches and matchups and those things, but yes, I'm didn't find the commentary stuff that that interesting.

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:22

So Nick Kyrgios, you could coach him that, all you need is five weeks, five weeks on tour. So that's, so that's one job and then we'll maybe get you and Nick talking about a match, I would imagine you might disagree. So that's it sorted. Andy before that, we go to the quickfire, and the quickfire can be really quick, if you want it to be really quick. I want to say thank you to you, you know, because to be able to one get you on this platform that we've been doing now for the last three years, but you're for me, genuinely. And I'm not saying this because you're here. You are the greatest British sports man ever I truly believe that, you know, you've, you've inspired me, my family, millions of people around the world you know, and for me to get the chance to publicly thank you on on this platform is really special for me. So a big, big thank you on everything that you've given to us. I'm sure you hear it lots but I can't say enough quite what you've given to so many of us. So a big well done, your career is not over, you know, go and write your next chapter. You know, it's your it's your chapter to write. And I'm sure I'm sure there's a brilliant chapter but a big big thank you on behalf of myself and everybody involved with the podcast.

Andy Murray  1:10:39

Appreciate that. Thank you.

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:41

Quick Fire round you ready? Yeah. Who is the goat in your opinion?

Andy Murray  1:10:47

Just so I'm clear, this has to be like quick answers.

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:51

It's up to you. And I'll stay up until midnight I'm happy to have your time

Andy Murray  1:10:56

on that one. To me it is it is very nuanced because tennis is not as simple as it's always played under the same conditions you have a clay court a grass court and a hard court and all around across the three surfaces Novak has to go down as the best but if I had a match for my life on a clay court there's no chance I'm taking Novak over Rafa on hardcourt I would. But not on a clay core and on a grass court. I mean, it's a toss up for me between him and him and Novak or sorry Novak and Roger. And then it's like well, back in the day, like three of the slams were played on grass. If three of the slams were played on grass, you know, Federer would have won about 30 Grand Slams, if two of the slams were played on clay court, It's like Rafa would have won however many so all around you'd have to give it to Novak but tennis is not, is not just played on on the one surface it's always different and yeah, like Rafa is by far the greatest clay court player of all time. And then like I said with the other surfaces it's not clear on you know on hard courts is on hard courts for me it's clear Novak is clearly the best.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:21

Roger, Roger had one inside out forehand that could have changed that history as well.

Andy Murray  1:12:27

Yeah, yeah, it could have done and a lot of people also don't necessarily want to give it to Novak because of how much Roger and Rafa is rivalry and stuff how much they were loved and for me it is it's not like that I'm not,  I mean I've always had a good relationship with Novak my losses and my career but better of Novak was the best of all time that you know, but yeah, just I think it's just a bit more nuanced than it just being oh well its him because it's not the same conditions every week.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:02

Roger or Rafa

Andy Murray  1:13:12

Roger

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:14

Serena or Venus. Serena call us or Novak Novak forehand or backhand forehand. If you could relive one moment in your career, or you could redo one moment in your career. What would it be?

Andy Murray  1:13:41

I'd probably like to redo the French Open final against Novak Yeah, it would be that because although the score they might not look, I was very close in that match, or one the first had breakpoints early in the second set and was, you know, I was in a pretty good position. And for me if I'd managed to win the friendship and that would have been Yeah, probably would have been the best win of my career. So yeah, I would probably like to have another go at that one.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:18

Underarm serve or not.

Andy Murray  1:14:23

Or not.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:25

You do it. And and I guess tactically, tactically, you do it for a reason. I guess if people are standing in the back fence then it's become, it's become fair game, I guess.

Andy Murray  1:14:35

Yeah. I mean, I'm not against players using it. It's just, I would always rather hit a normal serve than an underarm serve. But I'm not against players using it. I think it's a legitimate tactic. Like you said players have started returning from so far behind the baseline, the run back so huge now, allowing them to do that. So it's the only way of trying to Get them to return from a slightly different position.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:02

It it's eight all in the fifth set tie break. You don't want to do it and then serve and volley like Davidovich did against Rune at Wimbledon

Andy Murray  1:15:16

Especially on the grasscourt and Rune wasn't standing that far back. That was never going to work.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:20

A brain fart if we've ever had one. If you could coach any current player on the men's or women's tour, who would it be, and why?

Andy Murray  1:15:28

I mean, it's sort of pretty, pretty boring answer this but I would, I would have to say Alcaraz. Just because one I think it'd be great fun. I think he seems like he's, you know, really, like coachable he has all of the shots. I mean, yeah, I would love love to coach him and then on the women's side, I'd love to coach Swiatek because yeah, I think they're both brilliant. I love watching both of them they both seem like you know really nice good people. And yeah, they're still young so still probably, can still learn a lot of you know, still bound to improve so yeah, I mean I'm sorry about those answers but I mean it would be it would have to be those to

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:23

You want an easy life. Alcaraz is how quickly learns I saw him play the Puente Romano Challenger event whenever it was, and he was like Ferreira was pulling his hair out. He was just pulling the trigger of every ball and like going crazy, like, going for the biggest forehands when he didn't need to. I literally saw him three months later playing Davis Cup at Puente Romano and he'd refined that so much in that three month period. It feels like he's such, he just catches on so quick, and his ability to which is scary, you know, when you think of his age, what he's what he's going to be able to do in the next 2-3-4 years. Let cords or not,

Andy Murray  1:17:08

Or not

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:10

Medical timeouts or not

Andy Murray  1:17:17

Yes to medical timeouts, but there should be there should be like a forfeit of game, when when it happens, you know, to avoid, you know, people doing it from a tactical perspective or to break up the match. The person should have to give away like, you know, their opponent's next service game, so that it's not it's not hampering the, the opponent, in my opinion. So yes, to medical timeouts, but I do think there shouldn't be a penalty for using them.

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:53

And a one that's very apt for you, after this year's Australian Open. When playing five sets, should there be an extra toilet break? Or should players be provided with a nappy?

Andy Murray  1:18:10

Yeah, I mean, for me, the biggest issue I had with that match wasn't so much the toilet situation was more that we finished at four in the morning. And I think that that's something that tennis needs to sort out because it's is ridiculous. And, you know, you often will see people saying, or you'll get people sending you, oh, you know, like, you spoil tennis players, like, you know, try doing a, whatever, nine to five, you know, job, like just get on with it type thing, but it's not really the, for me, it's not really the point, it's like, people come to watch tennis matches to be entertained, you want to see like, you know, the best sort of physical performance that you can so not just for that match, but hopefully for the rest of the tournament as well. And it's not just the players that are involved in it is all of the officials. It's all of the people that work behind the scenes at the tournament, that are working for the TV stations, it's the ball kids, you know, it's their families and all of that stuff. So yes, players can go and play a match until four in the morning even though you know, does ruin their chances of recovering for the following match. But it's everyone else that goes with it. It's just it's so stupid, and they need to find a better way of doing it, but they want because they're doing what's best, the tournament will do what's best for them and what's best for them financially. So, yeah, that that won't change the same same at Wimbledon this year with the rules around on the roof and you know, there's curfews and all of those sorts of things and it won't change.

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:57

What's one rule change you would make in tennis

Andy Murray  1:20:01

I would probably get rid of the, probably get rid of the five minute warm up, you know, obviously we'd sort of slightly changed the way that players have to do things, because the five minute warm up is allowed. You know, we all practice like two and a half hours before the match, and then, you know, get into the locker room, shower, eat, and then warm up and go. Whereas I would get rid of the five minute warm up and, you know, give players their practice slots scheduled like before their matches, so players, you know, warm up for, you know, kind of like a football team would you know, they go out on the pitch, they warm up for 25 to 30 minutes on the pitch, they go in, get dressed, and then out they come and they play. I would probably like to do that. But I don't think that'll change either.

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:50

If Novak broke you serving for the match in 2013, and five for who was then favourite to win that match in your mind?

Andy Murray  1:21:03

Well? That's a good question, I would think was the bookies. I still would have been favourite, but I don't know if I would have been able to come back from that. Because I was also cramping as well. I hid it pretty well. But that was the other thing that was going on at that moment. I was like, I had that to deal with. I was like, if I don't get over the line here, like physically, I'm struggling a lot. You know, I'm I'm gonna cramp. And had that happened. Obviously, the match could have been could have been curtains, it was really hot that day, but some of it probably would have been nerves and the pressure, you know, the tension. But yeah, I think he probably would have, I think he probably would have been been the favourite. For, for tennis. Like if, like for tennis people, they would have seen that and be like it's tough to come back from that, from my perspective.

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:01

What does control the controllables mean to you?

Andy Murray  1:22:06

Yeah, for me, it's about taking care of all of the things that the that you can, so I would use it and like, from a tennis perspective, and I've think I've spoken a bit about and what separates like the top players from everyone else is that they are taking care of all of those things. Like, you know, they're training they're eating, they're sleeping, like day after day after day. And yeah, are in control of those things. And yeah, and then try not to worry about the things that are out of your control. And again, that is about controlling your, your mind, as well, because we all have those doubts and fears and all of those things. But yeah, you need to learn to control those things. So from a tennis prospective, that's how I would, I would view it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:04

And the last question I asked every guest, there's been a lot of guests have said your name over the years, Andy, when I've asked this question, but the thing that I want to preempt before this last question, you are the responsibility holder to pass the baton. That's how it works. at control the controllables So, like I had one guest that said, Donald Trump, and you'll get the question in a minute and I said, Well, how are you going to get Donald Trump onto this podcast? And they said, Well, I'm not going to be able to so you can only say a name that you have the ability to get them on and who should our next guest be on control the controllables

Andy Murray  1:23:43

I mean, you've got you've got to go big don't you?

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:46

I mean we're having having you on here you are you are the door to some much bigger names you know, there's no this some people some people that come on as good as guests they are they don't quite have that door to unlock.

Andy Murray  1:24:05

I'm gonna go with tough one for me between Alcaraz and Medvedev. And the reason I say that is because I think Medvedev, I'm not saying our class is not interesting, but I think Medvedev is a very interesting character. I think he looks at things a bit differently. And I think would I think he'd probably be a really interesting guest. So I'm gonna go with Medvedev.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:34

Great guest I will see you in person I won't keep hassling you. Andy Now that I've got your number, don't worry but I when I see you in person, I will mention to you Come on we let's have that little word with Daniil. And the I can't tell you what a star you are like to come on to give your time like this. And I absolutely love the conversation. Everyone that listen, will as well. A big big big thank you and Keep doing your thing. We're all fully behind you all the best over the next few weeks.

Andy Murray  1:25:04

Cheers. I'll see you. I'll see you in Cincinnati.

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:08

Well, unfortunately, given Andy's ab injury in Cincinnati, I didn't get to catch up with him in Cincinnati. But I am travelling to New York tomorrow where I hope that his body is fine. And he will be playing at the US Open. And I hope we'll get to have a chat off air. And again, thank him so much for for coming on. And, and as always, I've got Control the Controllables producer, and my wife, Vicki, a big Happy anniversary, by the way, 15 years putting up with myself. But it's always great to have Vicki to, to chat and unpack the episode that we've just done. And yeah, it feels like we've been chasing, chasing Andy for for a while. And sometimes when that happens, it can disappoint, you know, when you actually finally get to, to have the conversation. But he far from disappointed. He exceeded all of my expectations. And what an incredible guest for us to have.

Victoria Kiernan  1:26:10

Now he really did like best anniversary present ever. And I said in Episode 199, when we announced that he was coming on that I'd already listened to it twice. And I'm on to my fourth, my fourth, listen already. And I'm still picking up who's the things, you know what massive Andy fans and our family and we've followed his career for so long. So I'd like to think we know a lot about his tennis and his journey. But he was talking about things in that chat that I hadn't heard before.

Daniel Kiernan  1:26:41

No, absolutely. And I think that you just sort of thought that would be kind of cool to to get all the listeners together and have a big Zoom chat. And I bet you every single person would come up with almost something different that they took with it. And it was, you know what it was? for me? I think Vicki it was the it was the layers to his answers. Like he was so

Victoria Kiernan  1:27:02

measured with his answers. I was like, I speak so fast. And he speaks so slowly. And he really takes time to think about what he's saying.

Daniel Kiernan  1:27:13

There was Yeah, absolutely. I mean, measured a good word and considered is a good word. You know, and we are good friends of Andy's Coach Mark Hilton, and we've spent a few days with him, actually out in Sotogrande this week. And one thing Mark did say to me was, he is incredibly considered, you know, when if Mark asks for feedback, or he asks a question, you'll say, I'll go and I'll think about that. And I'll come back and he'll come back and give, give an answer. And I think that we see this raw emotion of Andy Murray on the court. And you know, when he gets so he's so caught up in the emotion when he's when he's playing and competing. But as an individual to get that level of insight on how considerate he was when he spoke about the GOAT. You know, who's the greatest of all time, it wasn't just a straight answer. There was many layers and intelligent layers to to that answer. I absolutely loved the answer that he gave around what what makes a champion because we often talk about what takes someone from good to great, but what takes someone from great till the immortal have of winning multiple grand slams and, and writing your name in the history books of tennis. And again, he was considered with that. But he was he was clear with that, you know, he went into different layers of detail of what the mindset really was, you know, it wasn't just a simple answer of the mind. If you wanted to give us more than that. And for anybody listening, in order to be able to pick the brains of such a masterful mind of Andy Murray, I thought that was one absolute incredible answer of many.

Victoria Kiernan  1:28:53

I really liked what he was saying about watching matches all the way through, you brought it up as well the difference between the highlight reel and watching what goes on and in a full match and when what how players are dealing with all everything that goes on with stress. And then when he said when you asked him about what's next, you know, when he does stop playing what would be next for him and he said he didn't want to commentate? I was like, No, we can't lose all of his amazing insight because he does explain things so well. And the insight that us as TV viewers or whether it'd be on the radio that we would get from him commentating on and giving his opinions on matches will be huge. But then he came he said about analysis and Yeah, perfect. Absolutely perfect. How good would he be at that? I was thinking God if I was a producer of Eurosport or BT Sport or be the BBC, I would be creating a programme or a role right now. Ready for Andy Murray for when he retires

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:54

and somebody who disagrees with them. And because actually, I was really fortunate enough to I have a couple of meals with Andy and his team over the over this year and there was one particular meal in Indian Wells. And we were talking about that exact subject and he was saying how he loves the Neville Carragher Premier League back and forth, because there's, there's a bit of needle in and it got me thinking all his life. He's had that with Jamie, you know, and they've kind of gone back and forth, his mum Judy likes a bit of banter as well. And if you are around Andy, it is constant banter. You know, people used to think he's this grumpy old or grumpy young man. But he's always been joking around him and Lendl the amount of stories amount of times I've seen them two joking around at the Grand Slams. You know, he's someone that is so competitive, but he likes banter. And if you got the perfect person who disagreed with Andy Murray on something, and you could build that relationship, it would just be just a brilliant watch, because it will be entertaining tennis TV goals. Yeah. Well, it was but it was incredibly entertaining, but also incredibly insightful. And yeah, I mean, I'll have

Victoria Kiernan  1:31:07

a thing. I'll have a thing on there. Maybe I can pitch it someone.

Daniel Kiernan  1:31:10

Yeah. Well, if we could become his agent, we might make some money out of that. But maybe we get a finder's fee for on that. But yes, so many things that we could that we could jump into. I agree with you Vicki watching tennis that hit the hit the headlines after he was on centre court watching Carlos Alcaraz Novak Djokovic, and the final at Wimbledon. He that is something he does all the time always has, from a young age, a bit like why I love podcasts and love listening to podcasts, you get the context, you know, you start to really understand things. If you just get the headline, or you just read a very quick article, it's hard to pick up the context of what somebody has meaning. And it's exactly the same with a tennis match. And I think it's just, we live in a world where we don't have a lot of time, for some reason, instant gratification. We talk about it all the time. But spending time watching tennis matches, does improve your tennis, the courier example of nowhere, he was going at Sanchez Caselle at the academy. I mean, what a great What a great story that was,

Victoria Kiernan  1:32:12

and what he said about when he gave him the choice of reliving or redoing a moment in his career. I think the competitor comes out there. Because yeah, he's you know, he doesn't want to relive what he's done that he wants to go back in like rock go back and

Daniel Kiernan  1:32:27

probably thinking about it, he was gonna go back and redo.

Victoria Kiernan  1:32:31

I think that was my favourite quickfire round, though, because we've got some awesome stories. It wasn't that quick. But it was brilliant.

Daniel Kiernan  1:32:37

And at that point, we've been speaking for over an hour and a little story. He actually said we have 30 minutes at the start. So I feel like we got a little way to control the controllables when

Victoria Kiernan  1:32:47

Yeah, and he could give us another one. Maybe if he if he delivers on either Medvedev, or Alcaraz? I don't know. I thought he'd say someone in British tennis or something. But no, Alcaraz or Medvedev? I was like, well, I'll take either.

Daniel Kiernan  1:33:01

I'll take either a circle.

Victoria Kiernan  1:33:04

But that will be amazing. But it did make me think we have like you said at the start we have had so Andy Murray in our sights ever since we started this podcast. So where do we go now?

Daniel Kiernan  1:33:16

Well, actually, you know what? We love you Andy you've only won three grand slams. Our next guest has won 25. So we can we keep we keep on moving up. And that is Alfie Hewett, the incredible wheelchair tennis player. Come on, on the 22 behind Alfie if you can even get working so Alfie coming up in the next week or so. And we'll also be for that have the US Open preview where we're looking ahead to Flushing Meadows 2023 so much more to look forward to. And we hope that you have enjoyed the episode as much as we did in making it and bringing this to you. And just once again a big big thank you to Andy Murray for his generosity giving up his time, his insight, his knowledge for all of us to learn from and enjoy. We hope lots more of you will delve into the other 199 episodes. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan we are Control the Controllables