#194: Wimbledon 2023 Preview

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 194 of Control the Controllables and here we are the most anticipated Grand Slam of the year. And doesn't it come quick? It feels like we were playing on the red stuff not so long ago. We've had two three grass court events leading in to SW 19 to Wimbledon, that place if you have never been to Wimbledon, I beg you to try it's worth camping out overnight. It's worth doing what you can to get your hands on tickets. It is just such an incredible event. I won't be there this year. Harri Helliovarra one of the two doubles players that I work with his wife is giving birth anytime soon. So good luck to to Harri and the whole family as they go from a family of three to a family of four. And Lloyd Glasspool will be playing with Nicolas Mahut at Wimbledon this year, so I will be supporting them remotely. And I've got my guests again, the Dream Team Piotr Sierzputowski is on with us again, the coach of Shelby Rogers, and the former coach of Iga Swiatek. Who won Roland Garros three times now, can she and watch out for one of the picks for Iga as it comes into the show, and I want you to let me know if you agree with that or not. It will make sense soon. And then we got Gabby Dabrowski that doubles player been as high as number four in the world. She joined the panel for the French Open Review was a big hit. So we're delighted to have her back. And her good friend Emily Webley Smith, who is going to be coaching Gaby Wimbledon this year. She should be playing there herself. In my opinion, there is nobody in British tennis, who is giving what she has given over the last 20 years. And she's still doing fantastically well. So it will be great to see her playing but next year and you will be there but thank you for joining us and the ever present Kieran Vorster. He's always got a word or two to say. He's been working with Dan Evans over the grass court season. He lets us know how that's been going. And as well as Liam Broady. And then of course, Freddie Nielsen, the Davis Cup captain of Denmark, the 2012, men's doubles champion at Wimbledon. Brilliant, brilliant panelists. So you're gonna love. If it's your first time listening to our panel, then I hope you enjoy. And please do let us know what you think. Go back, you can learn so much from these episodes. If you are an ever present on Control the Controllables the cocktail works once again, you will love it. But let's just hope that the panelists live by that name experts, as they make more calls for who's going to be winning the titles and some of the names that are going to be going far in the event. We've tried to get the criteria sorted so that we have a stronger idea of what a dark horse is. So listen out for that and so much more of passing you over to our Wimbledon 2023 panelists. So a big welcome to Control the Controllables our Wimbledon 2023 panelists, how you doing?

Freddie Nielsen  03:40

Great.

Daniel Kiernan  03:42

That's awesome. It's not been easy getting you guys together in the busy period, the grass court season. So a big big thank you for for coming in. And I want to jump in actually you talk about grass courts, and it's a bit of the unknown around the world. And Gaby, you're nodding your head. So I'm going to jump to you. Because to those listening, what is different about the grass courts? How much have they changed? Who's it giving an advantage to, you know, unfair for someone who hasn't spent a lot of time on many surfaces? Let us know about the mystery of grass court tennis.

Gaby Dabrowski  04:19

I think the grass is a lot slower than it used to be. I can't speak for every single tournament. But I remember even from Wimbledon the last couple of years I felt the grass had slowed down considerably. And I think you also see that with the results of some of the girls who've done well who are more of the grinder defensive styles and like a Tatiana Maria making semi finals last year or Barbara Strycova in 2019. So I think the grass has definitely changed. I'm not exactly sure why. I don't know what they're doing differently. Do you know if they're doing anything differently?

Emily Webley-Smith  04:58

No. I mean no, I'd say normally, when they didn't get that year of play during COVID, what normally happens when it hasn't been played on is the grass is, you know, less flat. But in terms of the bigger tournaments with the preparation that they have, that doesn't count as much, but I know that with the weather that we've had, you would expect it to be quicker and it's not.

Gaby Dabrowski  05:20

The balls are bouncing relatively high, like you're not parking your ass on the ground all match long.

Daniel Kiernan  05:26

But it's still we get different results, don't we? Even if we, we look at knocking them WTA there was the three British girls, you know, went went finals semi finals, that they haven't been doing that and certainly on a clay court, you know, but or hard court. So, we are seeing these different results we always get we got Billy Harris, that's into the last round of qualifying tomorrow British player, you know, fairplay to Billy you know, he's a he's a big big friend here at the podcast. And also Anna Brogan who I saw won late tonight. I think the top 100 Winning has moved in the last round qualifying. So it does tend to give Piotr the chance for for people to almost pick up bigger upsets than other court surfaces. Is that still fair?

Piotr Sierzputowski  06:09

I would say that yeah, that's totally fair. Of course it's slower. Even here in Wimbledon. It's absolutely slow. Even comparing to Lisbon. I don't know why grass is so long. I see. First time. Of course, it's around the Papillon not championships courts. I will tell you tomorrow, our championship courts play but terribly slow. So but what you said I would say it's about experience, because how many hours on grasscourt we actually experienced through the life and this season of grasscourt playing is so short that one player might have even like three times more experience on grass, comparing to others who've been injured for two years in a row and not playing grass. So I would say upsets a lot of them. But we cannot justify them only because we don't have enough knowledge. How many time how much time the players spent actually on grass in their lifetime. And I think it's a huge factor here about the results.

Daniel Kiernan  07:08

It's such a good point, Piotr and one of the names I have on my sheet is Feliciano Lopez. And I know he's actually not playing Wimbledon. I mean, it might change. I don't know if there's all the wildcard I guess, all the wildcards have been given. But he's playing his last tournament in New Yorker, I had a little luck and I thought, I haven't seen him hardly play or win a match for so long. Last year he played 17 singles matches he wouldn't want. And it was on grass. This year he has played before this week, played six singles matches one one. And this week, he's gotten beat Purcell and Jordan Thompson on the grass, his last ever match. It's a great story. It's any sort of country. But it almost if I put it this way, if anyone wanted to play me at tennis now and I want them to have any chance of getting a respectable score against anybody, I'd be saying get me on that grasscourt now, you know, and I think that fits in with Venus Williams, Venus Williams in Birmingham. You know, what a match then and then put it against George, you know, unbelievable results. You know, 43 years old Andy Murray. You know, he's winning a lot winning a lot of matches. It does seem to favor that experience Freddie. So so that gives me the question. We talked about big three big three. Well, I did, maybe you guys didn't. But big three for the French Open? are we opening that up to different names that we're looking to go further at Wimbledon than they did at the French Open?

Freddie Nielsen  08:40

I'm not so sure. I still think that they're the main favourites to do well. But like you say it does open up for different kinds of players. I think the main thing is the the movement, it's much more difficult to move on the grass and it is on the other surfaces. So a lot of the movement is a little bit of, for lack of better expression, damage control. And you hit a lot more ball, balls shots, kind of tipi-tapping around the court trying to avoid to slide. And I think that's the day you don't really get to take full cards of being balanced as much as I do, or kind of take off on the sides. And I think that's the that's something that makes you kind of hide your weaknesses a little bit more, you can play a little more, less tactical in the sense, you can just kind of try and power your way through. You get a little bit of help on the serve, it's not as important that it's incredibly accurate because it's not as easy to to return. With regard to your to have one comment about the court speed like I think didn't they change the sort of graph they use and change the direction of the grass? I think

Daniel Kiernan  09:50

I think they cut it the opposite direction.

Freddie Nielsen  09:52

Because I remember Daniel Nestor telling me a story about how he was qualified and won a few rounds, I think and he said it was his serve was just taking off And then the next year, it was a different ballgame. Like you couldn't play the same way at all. And also, I think the balls got bigger and slower so so you can play a lot more from the baseline however. So it's easy. I think a guy like Lendl would have probably appreciated the guy the way the grass plays now as opposed to been when he was playing and trying to, to win a Grand Slam, taking French Open out of the calendar to try and prepare. And if you go back 30 years ago, and before, it's just looking at where the grass is worn down, like back then it would didn't really make sense to play from the baseline that didn't really pay off with the technology. Now, the grass is only one behind the baseline. We played Davis Cup last year in India, and it was a little more old school and it was so clear to see the difference. I mean, you just if you had a good connection and came in, you could really disrupt the game. Whereas, whereas now you can basically people go from French Open straight into Queens, or wherever they play, Stuttgart and they just they strike the ball well from day one. So it's just a different ballgame. So I think there's less chances of upset as there has been ever. But of course, there still is. And I think especially in the beginning of the week, when the grass is very green, it feels like when it's when it kind of evens out the grass and it gets a little more worn down that the Favorites seem to be a little more in control. Whereas the first few I feel like that's always when when Rafa used to learn using would be early doors against some some some surprising players when the grass was green, you couldn't really move as well as you couldn't the second week. So long, long answer to your question, I still think we're looking for the top three in both maybe some of the maybe a go like entrepreneur can come in and and trouble them but he hasn't really looked great in the weeks up to so I still think we're looking for the top three on both sides.

Daniel Kiernan  11:45

And Vossie from a from a physical prep side. You know, listening to what Gaby saying you don't basically have to get your arse as low as you used to. You know, and that was that was the thing on grass. You played on grass. You were down, you were low. You were you know, and I guess you were developing a different differently physically or preparing different physically. Is that something? You've noticed that you're a little bit different as the years have gone on? Are you still going with the traditional preparation physically on a grasscourt?

Kieron Vorster  12:16

I think I go with the original, just the classic preparation in early rounds across the presea. You're just working on on them like on their feet being an agile as they can. And then obviously, you know, as the week goes on, they're cutting the grass shorter and shorter and shorter for the grass that gave the courts start playing faster that you know you've got to hang in there to get there. And there was there was a rumor going around that they put 30% more clay into the into the foundation. But I met the head. groundsman of Wimbledon. He said that a lot of rubbish. They never did. They said they claim they haven't done anything different. You know, like at Irani. Last Last week, the grass was very spongy. There was the grass was was long for grad school, which was mentioned there. Going back to original question. Yeah. I mean, you they've got to be added on to this a lot of, of the lunging lunging patterns that they're doing, you know, a couple of drops that movement patterns as well. But yeah, I mean, I you still for I mean, it's still focusing on the explosiveness of two three shots, shot rallies, and being able to repeat them for long periods of time. But I haven't changed the physical physical side, basically, the people that got big serves are gonna have big, certain people that have big returns are gonna have big returns that are going to neutralize the big service. From my perspective, always avoid that and maintain that you just focus on your players best. Yeah, just working on their attributes, making sure that they feel comfortable, your feet, feet on the grass ground. There's been a couple other suggestions that when when the player first got in the grass actually wear hard court shoes for the first three or four days. So they try and be more light on it. And don't rely on the duds of the grass. And then transition off the high courts onto on grass, but she's definitely used to back in the 90s. You'd play the first three or four days in hard court shoes and then transition into the grass grass, court shoes

Daniel Kiernan  14:19

All well and good if you don't do your groin on day one, I guess.

Kieron Vorster  14:24

Yeah, oh, well, good. That's where the Copenhagen's come into, into play. And make sure you're adopted and so strong. Yeah, just Yeah, I guess, you know, again, general strength, you know, obviously, the glutes, the glutes, the adaptive the quads. All those go to areas are going to have to be in great shape. And then, you know, obviously being able to recover. Yeah, just just make sure you're on top of those things.

Daniel Kiernan  14:50

And Piotr from a coach's standpoint, well, how does it differ? How does preparation differ differ yourself from other court surfaces? Or maybe from that? Previous grass court seasons

Piotr Sierzputowski  15:03

You don't want to know what what our preparation was for grass court season this year, shall we came up with a perfect idea, the less I practice the, the less expectations I will have. So I think that's the best explanation for it because it's so difficult to learn grass properly. And I think you just have to go be a little bit I would call it tighter in like, in a good way, like being ready for anything. And just, you know, smack the ball all out, you cannot leave it to to the opponent you have any chance to pass yourself. Just go out for and I think that's what we're practicing right now.

Daniel Kiernan  15:44

And Freddie grass grass court the last thing on grass courts, it's something that you've always enjoyed playing on, you know, it suits it suits your it suits your game. Holger, we're gonna get into him. I would imagine there's not a lot of grass courts in Denmark, I would imagine it's not something that you guys are brought up on too much. So where did you learn your love of grass courts and and how can we expect that to transfer for for Holger over the next couple of weeks,

Freddie Nielsen  16:15

We don't have grass, but we actually have a lot of very fast indoor courts. And particularly playing on carpet, which is not too dissimilar. And, and I always appreciated that. So for some reason, my timing was always quite natural on the grass. I never took a lot of time working on grass, I would actually especially the last year just practice on clay a lot. Because I found that my timing and my my movement, I was never able to move. So it didn't really matter. But on grass, it wasn't exposed as much because I didn't have to be strong at the sides, there was more timing. So I would spend more time on the grass on the clay leading up so that my my racket speed and my forearm strength would be be be strong. Because I would have to rip a lot of balls from low under the net net, height. And make sure that I have racket speed through this through the through the shot because as as grass goes on, I feel like it's one of those services where I feel the best in week one. And I'm the worst in the last week because I kind of have half swings and a lot of out of balance shots. So So I think, yeah, it's one of the more peculiar like, services like that I always used to appreciate practicing on hard Court, during the tournaments to make sure that my swings were still true and long. So So yeah, in that sense, I don't know, it always came natural for us. And we I think if you have the frame of mind of playing indoor tennis, you kind of have a decent frame of mind to be able to play grass court, I think. And I think that's also going to benefit you in the long run. He didn't have a great grasp on season last year, but he's already looking much more comfortable this year, making semifinals clean and only getting better. And he's a very, very smart guy when it comes to what he needs to do on different courts and different surfaces. And he'll be be aware and learn from last year. And already the matches this year as to what works and what he needs to get better on. So I think that's where he's at.

Daniel Kiernan  18:18

I want to pick up on your point there actually about what it can do to your game grasscourt. So Evan, Evan Hoyt a few years ago, when I was working with him, he ended up having a longer grass court season than we thought he was going to have. And then he went straight off for the US challenger circuit. And he just started to report I wasn't with him in America, but he was just reporting that his backhand felt terrible. You know, he really struggled. And then I saw him about a month later. And he was playing so short and Jabby. On the backhand you know, when when we reflected on it was like, that's what he'd felt he almost had to do to react to the certain bounces or the or the different speeds or variation that happens on a grasscourt I think it's such a, it's such a, it's such a nice point to hear you say there to have that awareness of of of your game as you're going through a tournament, because I guess it's different surfaces, different balls, different situations can can actually have an effect. And before you know it, you can start to have confidence issues on certain shots. And if you're unable to have the intelligence to work out why that might be. It's hard to make a change. So it's a point that I think it's well worth picking up on.

Freddie Nielsen  19:36

Yeah, definitely. And I think it's obviously very individual. I know some guys would definitely only stay on grass because they only wanted to feel that movement. And I think it's very individual. I think I seem to remember Krajicek when he won Wimbledon I heard that he didn't practice on grass once and just played the matches. So I think it's very individual but it's also Yeah, I think if you're if you're aware of what's happening and you know yourself you can. You can you can, you can be prepared for it and you can make sure that you're, you know what's gonna happen during the time, but it is. I mean, if you have the long grass court season starting with the challengers ending with Newport, your your tariffs look pretty, pretty rank at Yes,

Daniel Kiernan  20:20

absolutely. And I want to get into the picks quite early today because I'm sure there's gonna be lots that we're going to talk about. We have quite a big topic to discuss on our criteria of our dark horse selection. Given that there's been multiple Grand Slam champions, sneaking in as dark horses on the last couple of previews. But I want to I want to see and I want to throw it to you, Emily, what are the storylines we always ask it. What's what's coming the next couple of weeks, we always get surprised with something. You know, the French Open, we didn't see the whole of Paris just booing whoever walked on court. But it happened. You know, so what is it gonna be at Wimbledon the next two weeks?

Emily Webley-Smith  21:09

I think from the women's perspective, there's a couple of players who like Asou way or like people like that who are in college at the moment who are still very dangerous on a grass court. But also stories like Strycova is going to be playing her last Wimbledon. And I think it's a time when you've got like the new crowd coming through. But you've also got a lot of people with some experience on the surface, you can still be quite dangerous. And I think from a woman's perspective, we may still be talking about the Big Three like we have for the French but I think there's definitely going to be an opportunity for a few dark horses to go deep into the tournament, which generally for Wimbledon that often is like a Tatiana Maria last year. We were watching a little bit from colleagues yesterday at Roehampton and I think anyone who has had matches and one matches on the surface. Is that an advantage more so than any other surface to come in?

Daniel Kiernan  22:15

What are the stories guys who what are the storylines? What what are we not seeing? What's the what's the obvious not picking up over the next couple of weeks? That's that's of interest

Kieron Vorster  22:25

Activists. Yep, you're gonna be causing havoc. They've been pointing sporting events. So they did one Epsom Derby, which was the biggest black horse race in Europe. The police arrested like 20-30 people, but what they'll do is they'll try and get on the track

Emily Webley-Smith  22:43

Put a stop to that before it happened

Kieron Vorster  22:45

As well snooker championships they threw orange powder on snooker table.

Daniel Kiernan  22:49

They did it today at the cricket lords.

Kieron Vorster  22:53

So, yeah, they're just they're just trying to be disruptive. So Wimbledon's the next one. But I'm sure they'll have interventions in place because they have a lot of plainclothes security they're walking around. So I think that's going to be a big one. A big talking point post press the championships. What else?

Daniel Kiernan  23:12

The all All England Club have gone against. They're all white policy this year for the first time for ladies, the ladies, all the women can can wear dark underwear shorts for the first time. And that's got to be a positive move, Gaby?

Gaby Dabrowski  23:28

Hugely finally, what year is it? Oh my god. Yeah, it's been incredibly stressful. My entire life playing at Wimbledon. Actually, I was talking to another player the other day saying that she actually adjusts her contraception to not have her menstrual cycle during Wimbledon. So I think it's something that we haven't talked about a lot, but something that literally affects every single woman in the draw. And so yeah, I'm so I'm really, really glad that they finally decided that we can wear colored under shorts. That will be like a huge relief.

Daniel Kiernan  24:09

Absolutely. And it

Freddie Nielsen  24:10

seems like such a no brainer when you hear it like this. Right? Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  24:15

It's causing a problem for 50% of the draw. And it's taken till 2023 potential, you know, potentially to, to get to that point. So that's, that's That's it. That's another good step forward. Definitely.

Gaby Dabrowski  24:32

Wimbledon I think they're implementing what Roland Garros did last year this year with reusable water bottles. And so I'm interested to see how that goes. Yeah, I have that water bottle.

Daniel Kiernan  24:45

Everywhere. I everywhere I look on social media. Someone's got a Perrier of a Roland Garros bottle I saw I saw jurkovich was out for a walk with his family and his wife. His wife had one and you know what? Maybe laugh is as you walked into Roland Garros, and you're given the bottles it said, make sure before you leave, you give your two bottles back. And Mrs. Djokovic has been found out that she that she didn't actually do that she didn't stick to the rules. And you talked about also people given up the one of the stories, and I don't know the absolute ins and outs of this, whether this is 100% physical health, or whether it is partly mental health as well. But Kontaveit is playing her last Wimbledon, you know, and it wasn't so long ago, she was number two in the world. She was absolutely smashing it. From what I understand, maybe the life of a tennis player hasn't fully fully worked for her. I don't know exactly what the official the official line is. But at age 28, that's a little bit sad Piotr that in our plays, again to 28. And, and maybe not fully enjoying that journey.

26:01

Yep, that's true. I know a little bit from behind the scenes. And I think it's both related not only to physical health, but mental health. So it's never like divided. Like if, if you're you have a will to fight through paint, you will probably find a way. I'm not saying every single time is possible. But most of the times is possible. And we have best example of Andy Murray. But on the other hand, if you are not willing to sacrifice what you've been sacrificing already and doing even more, that's totally understandable. And I think it's a good decision for her. I'm not sure about her ranking, I think the decision was really dictated with the ranking too, because she's dropping a lot of points. And actually, that might be her last Grand Slam, which should sign into the main draw. So maybe that's why that might be one of the factors which actually made her decide to finish after Wimbledon

Daniel Kiernan  26:57

Doesn't it just show of Vossy how you can be at the top of the game. But to stay at the top of the game is is just incredible from from all sides. And I know we talked about this in the French Open Review, you know, are these players able to recover? Is she going to be able to keep putting it in Week in, week out? And so few are able to do it, and once again, I guess that sort of storyline for me just brings home the absolute difficulties of the sport, the brutality of it, really?  Yeah, I mean, I mean, we also heard Raducanu come out and say that she was she she regrets winning a slam because of all the pressure and everything that was put on her. Yeah, I think it takes it takes something special for for a someone to get up there and then be for someone to keep at the top, I call it, I used to call it the 10% rule, you got to do 10% better every year to maintain the level that you're at. But I mean, you can use whatever analogy you want, you can use a 1% rule or 5% rule. And I think I think, yeah, I think players will also realize that, you know, when they get to the top, maybe this is not what it's all made out to be on the team. And then you've got other players that that just, you know, love, embrace the term embrace, embrace everything that comes with embrace the pressure. You know, someone like Dan Evans loves, loves playing loves working hard, loves lacing up the shoes crossing the white line and being a competitive animal. Other people struggle with that,

Freddie Nielsen  28:35

I think you made a good point about how it's not what it's made out to be. And I think a lot of players they, I am just guessing that they think that the success and the quality wins are going to be a substitute for quality of life, that that is the way to quality of life. And when they get there, they realize that there it hasn't made made a big difference in their life. And that's maybe personally what I try to install in my players a lot that they have a healthy relationship to their, to their life on and off the court regardless of results so that they're not depending on external factors to provide happiness or joy in their lives.

Kieron Vorster  29:16

Yeah, I totally agree. It's not easy. But I agree with you 100%

Freddie Nielsen  29:25

It's not a young person coming through to just wants to win. This is like, Yeah, this is all I want in my life.

Kieron Vorster  29:33

That's the other thing is that you, you're getting success at such a young age. And then by the time you're 27, 28, you're burnt out if I didn't know, you know, and you're ready to move on Ash Barty, I guess, you know, half half that of that to see such a great talent. You know, hang up the rackets and, you know, she's she's moved on and, you know, speaking to Mark Taylor who worked with, he said, There's no way absolutely No chance will ever come back and play he speaks to on a regular basis.

Emily Webley-Smith  30:03

Yeah, I think from she's an, obviously the minority with the money that she's made from the sport. And I think if you speak to majority of 26, 27 year olds who aren't lawyers who've come out of university and are working, I'm sure they're pretty tired from a Monday to Friday, you know, a poor six job where they're not making very much, and they're working really hard just to be able to go out on the weekend. So I think I agree that it's tough. And it's a really tough sport. But I think there's also an element of it that players should be a little bit more grateful for the opportunity that they have to play. And in comparison to many jobs in the world, it's not that hard. For what they're making.

Kieron Vorster  30:46

Yeah, it's not it's not that hard. I don't disagree. But there's other pressures that come with it.

Emily Webley-Smith  30:51

As there are with any job but more more

Kieron Vorster  30:55

year old traveling traveling on their own.

Piotr Sierzputowski  30:58

Yeah, that's what I wanted to point out like, you're 25, but you have already like 15 years of experience. Show me somebody who is 26 working for a company who has 15 years of experience traveling around the world competing with other players and having the stress every day, every week.

Emily Webley-Smith  31:16

Some of them like, yeah, like, we'll never get that opportunity. A lot of people like, you know,

Gaby Dabrowski  31:20

When did you start playing tennis? Or like, how long have you been around like, Well, I started at seven. And I was like, officially pro at 18, 19, I guess, but I feel like I've been working since I was nine years old. Like literally nine years old. I feel like I've been working. So

Kieron Vorster  31:35

You're talking about yourself that you feel like from the age of nine, you've been working?

Gaby Dabrowski  31:39

Yes. Because the way that my childhood was structured around tennis was eat live and breathe tennis. 24/7 There was no break. It was constant. So I feel like I'd probably been burnt out for like 12 years, at least you know, others maybe growing up, then maybe they can appreciate it more.

Freddie Nielsen  31:58

In how many other aspects of life are you peaking at mid 20s? You know, every every other aspect of life, you have a slow progression. And if you rise the ranks, so you get

Daniel Kiernan  32:09

Still waiting Freddie, still waiting to peak and I'm 43 mate.

Freddie Nielsen  32:16

But I mean athletes, they peak at mid 20s, and they retire their mid 30s. If they're lucky, and then one, then you start to do life. Where are the other people? They are not underplaying that. But it's just a different situation. You know, you have to, you have to peak and be at your best while you're still relatively immature in life and stuff. And it's really can be really difficult.

Gaby Dabrowski  32:37

The question I would have, though, surrounding something like Emirati Cano is, why do we have someone like Petra Kvitova, who's won multiple Grand Slam champions, but doesn't share the same sentiment? Or maybe she does, but she doesn't articulate it. But it seems like she has had unbelievable success over the course of life, at different points in her career, but she still keeps going. So what is that is that the people that she has around her support her better, she has a better head on her shoulders, her success didn't come overly young, there wasn't so much attention and so much expectation on her. Like, what is the difference? In a case like that, you know?

Piotr Sierzputowski  33:13

And can I ask a few more questions, and it's going to be related to Petra, and actually Kontaveit, because look at the Kontaveit who actually peaked winning four tournaments in a row being in the finals at the end of the year. So for me, it's maximum overload you can get nothing worse can happen to you because it's of course, great winning, but after that, you feel the Plenish from everything. And then you're talking about Kvitova, who Last week, doesn't even practice, he practice one hour, every few days, you know, one hour every few days, he is relaxed. He said that when she what she wondered which tournament she won Miami, and she was like, Oh, I just practice two hours before. Maybe that's again, the talk we had last time maybe we are actually over training, you know, constantly and I don't mean it in the wrong way. But since young kids you know,

Freddie Nielsen  34:04

but it also leads to the to the other question, Has she, for lack of better word I'm not saying she has but has she then under achieved could she ended up with more slams if he had been less relaxed, you know?

Kieron Vorster  34:19

You guys are going into into a rabbit hole which which is you know, you have if somebody and you have all these nature nurture, 10,000 hours, 10 year rule, and I think it's just different strokes for different folks. You've got you know, someone someone like a you're getting your tonic cost, he felt that he needed to practice six hours a day or something, you know, definitely 4 hours a day just for him to keep to keep his game fine tuned. And then you have someone like Tim going, you know, going into slams, he was happy, practicing, you know, 45 minutes to an hour. That finding that in relative fame was in check and I think I think it's different strokes for different folks. And, and it's also then come down to don't fix something that's not broke. So if you're working with somebody that is getting the results, you're not going to change it. But if you're working with somebody, that is you, you may think is undercooking, their tennis, or their physical side, going into, you know, getting and going into big tournaments, then you may want to have a conversation in terms of how, how you're going to periodized it from a load on a volume point of view, from a tennis point of view, going in, so that when they go in, you feel that they they've got the loads got the volume, for that individual, for them to achieve, to play at their best each time, they say, play a match in a slam, and I think missing point, but I think you can't, you know, like when Andy when Andy was huge success, he was practicing long, he would have one long session. And then all of a sudden, everybody here in England was doing one long session. You know, it works for him, but it's not gonna work for everybody else. So I think, you know, I think through the art of being a great coach is by actually making a mistake, by making a mistake once and then learning from it. And that's, that's the art of it. And then falling, falling upon what you feel is the right recipe for the for the individual player or team that you're working with. You're going to get them on a success. And then what happens as humans, we all then go oh, so and so over there is doing that we must all do that. And it's like no, work it out for yourself, work it out for yourself, or the players that that the player you are or the play you're working with, and fight and work out what the best recipe is, and then go with that. But that doesn't mean that the Holy Grail for everybody else to do, in my opinion.

Daniel Kiernan  36:49

I'm sitting here smiling because I feel quite privileged to be listening to all of your great minds and experiences to be passing passing this on, and having a discussion and Pat Cash has jumped into to my head actually, because I spoke to pat a couple of months ago on the podcast, and Pat's a men's Wimbledon champion, which is one of very few. If you look at the list, Sampras, Federer and Djokovic have pretty much taken, taken the rest. So there's actually not that many other men's Wimbledon champions over the last 30, 40 years. And he didn't say these words, but he kind of said similar to Raducanu. In other words, that it was one of the worst things that happened in his life. And because because what he what he said is it as his life went on, he was always searching that feeling and that expectation of being a Wimbledon champion. It to the point where it massively massively affected his self esteem. He went into depression. And on reflection, it was this search, it was this search, of, of feeling of ego of, of a motion that we get from an outcome, which, which I think goes into your story, Gaby, that from nine years old, what I think you're probably saying is, you were in an environment where success was only measured in winning, and being the best tennis player. And, and I always reflect a lot on these 195 episodes I've done on the podcast, speaking to so many unbelievable, unbelievable people. And one of my massive takeaways from that big time in my philosophy now is is around success measures. You know, what are everyone's own personal success measures? And and I think in our industry we get so caught up in those success measures being lifting a trophy, holding a ranking, having a big check, you know, as coaches as well. You know, you hear me Look at me what what an egotistical prick I'm sat here with my Roland Garros bottle walking around the academy. Oh, you went to Roland Garros, you know, like, it's all. That's, that's all all of the kind of bullshit. That's when we actually strip it all down. It is it's a lot of bullshit. You know, who we are as people how happy we are, how healthy we are. And all of that. And that is the bit that I think goes wrong so much. So when we're talking about Raducanu Where does Raducanu go? Until Until she gets her shit in order in some way, which is going to be unbelievably hard. How does she reach that expectation of the superstardom that winning a tennis tournament has set up in lots of ways and that I don't think there's that many players other than probably the ones we're talking about. Shelby seems like she has that good Piotr, you know, these players that have this experience and have gotten to the point where gratitude does sit at the very top of what it is. You know, Emily, you've been out on the tour for 20 years your your success measure can't only be winning Wimbledon. So what are you All success measures, you know, share, share that with us. Because I think that is a, that is a story for me your story is unbelievably successful, you know, and it'll continue to be, but what what is your drive back into what

Emily Webley-Smith  40:13

I'm doing and love of the sport. So literally that simple, I wake up and look forward to playing tennis every day that that happens. And I think from the perspective of everything we've spoken about, I think it is very much down to the individual. But I was really lucky with my childhood, I had a multi sport background, had a very balanced academic start. And I think all the way through, I've had to find that balance myself without a team around me and without good people around me. Which I found from myself. So I think it is possible to do it by yourself in that environment within the tennis environment, which as we know, and we have said is the toughest sport in the world. But I think if you have a purity within the passion for what you're doing, it's actually very simple to do. And I'm asked that it's the first question I'm asked, I was asked it today when I was doing a question and answer session with the kids. You know, why are you still playing? Like, how are you still playing? And it just comes down to that. And I think there's not many people my age that can wake up and really look forward to going to work, which I do.

Freddie Nielsen  41:28

Like 23. Yeah.

Emily Webley-Smith  41:33

Especially after coffee.

Kieron Vorster  41:36

It's very unhappy. So hats off to you. I mean, that's obviously amazing that after all these years, you still have that burning, desire and passionate,

Emily Webley-Smith  41:46

driven, I'm not driven by money, whichever my ranking is, is a good thing. Because as long as I have enough money to carry on doing what I'm doing at the moment, and that's fine for me, I think in a few years, that may not be the case, but I'm not worried about life after tennis i i have a calmness, that I can be really successful after tennis in whatever I do. But in terms of like what I bring and what I, how I go about my days, and what I'm how I'm able to work with what I've got, under the circumstances, which isn't easy sometimes. But also from a perspective of not just enjoyment, but actually having quite clear goals about what I want to do still, I still driven by that, which is the passion side of it. But I think it's hard to explain that to people who perhaps don't have that. Because I think naturally you either have it or you don't. And people find their passion for other things. But if you if you don't have that it makes working hard, a lot harder. And if you have it and makes working hard, easy. The travel days and things like that something which starts to hurt through the years, and there's plenty of sides of it, which I don't enjoy. But they're part of the job that goes with it and the overriding thing is that. Yeah, I think it's a beautiful sport. And I love I love what I'm doing.

Daniel Kiernan  43:14

I'm on board fully, fully like that's, you know, exactly, certainly where my philosophies have got to, but I'm going to be devil's advocate. Someone's listened to this going okay, blah, blah, blah, fluffy, great, well, but if you did care more about money, if you did care more about ego and this is me fame, look at me winning this would you have had more success not not in terms of what I'm talking about success but success that traditionally we think of success success is lifting a trophy, isn't it and having a having a big bank balance in, in modern day society, rightly or wrongly and wrongly for me, so so not not just to you and someone else might jump in at this point. But do you think you are like minded people to you, Freddie was quite similar, in my opinion to that as well. And people gave him shit for years, that actually Freddie if you're a little bit more like this, then you would be doing this? And, you know, so what's what's the take on that kind of, versus, I guess the financial drive, the fame, the all of that drive?

Emily Webley-Smith  44:29

Before anyone else jumps if I answer from my perspective, I think in order to make money, you have to have it to be able to invest in first. And I've never had that opportunity with what I was doing with my coaching, with investing in people around me to help me to get better. So in one of the ingredients that we were talking about last week that you need, whether that's grit, whether that's talent, whether that's background, whether that's the country you're born in, and the financial background, I don't think it's possible to be British not have money and make it as a tennis but you can work as hard as you can doing other things to try and make some money in order to do survive, that you can't pay a coach. And at this level now and the way that tennis is, I don't think it's possible to make the top 100 Without a coach.

Freddie Nielsen  45:17

I'm very similar to me, definitely. So to answer your question, if I have a different mentality that were retired with tennis at 15, or something, because my ego would be strong, and I wouldn't, I would have protected my ego but not losing every single match that I was playing. Or I would never even go into professional tennis because I was not very good. When I started playing, I was laughing at the thought of getting one ATP point. So I will probably pursue something else where I could be more successful by the by the normal terms that you're talking about. Because there's no chance for to make it in tennis so so even if I had that desire wouldn't make a difference. I think actually, the way I had my mentality gave me the chance to be somewhat successful. I don't think I could have been intention the other way.

Daniel Kiernan  46:04

Very good. Love the subject could jump into your comment there about British tennis player, Emily, but we'd be gone for another 45 minutes. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna move into the great subjects. My last storyline to look out for and doubles absolutely deserves to be talked about on this podcast and in in many places. And it might have been a bit of a doubles chat, but we'll then get into into our picks, but I don't know if it's drawn anyone's attention. But mech Mektic Pavic have actually split up. So they they've announced that they're on the lookout for new partners. This happened at Roland Garros. Now they won Wimbledon last year, they are actually playing the grass court season together this year. And a lot of this goes into management of expectation, right what we're talking about, you know, you have stronger success measures outside of tennis, maybe you perform a little bit better. They've already had an extremely good grass court season. Don't be surprised if in two weeks time, they're lifting a trophy as the men's doubles champions, when they've actually already agreed that they're not going to be playing together after it. That then will become a really interesting conversation of what's then going to happen with them afterwards. So let's see.

Freddie Nielsen  47:22

That also happened back in the day to Knowles and nessa

Daniel Kiernan  47:25

Well, I think it would happen in French. But I think he spoke I heard this from Louie Cayer. And sorry, Louis, if you're listening to share our personal stories, but Louis told me that Nestor yes spoke to him at the start of the tournament. And it basically said, look, it ain't working out. However, let's go and smash it here the next two weeks, I'm pretty sure that the conversation happened start the conversation they went and then when the French Open. So so very, very interesting. And it'll be interesting to see how that unfolds.

Gaby Dabrowski  48:02

Well, you know what's nice about that, too, is that they gave each other like at least a month buffer to find new partners. I think that's like super respectful so it's like okay, that you're done with the partnership it could be a mutual decision or it could be a one sided decision but they respect each other enough where they actually you know, said hey, let's decide this now but we're going to play through the grass where we know that we've done really well and then we can find a partner so I think that's that's it okay, the microphones

Kieron Vorster  48:34

basically what they're doing is in a business that just given each other one week or one month fucking notice as they're in a job that's what it comes down to I guess it comes down to the fact that it was acrimonious they'll be like Okay, first off, I don't want to be your see you will be the near you on a court. But the fact that they obviously saw

Gaby Dabrowski  48:59

I think, good enough friendship, you know, a lot together so I think they're going to be okay,

Daniel Kiernan  49:05

Gaby, This sounds like we need to get more off your chest the microphones yours.

Gaby Dabrowski  49:11

I said that's that's all I wanted to say is that I really respect them as a team because of the way they've handled it.

Kieron Vorster  49:17

So basically, what you're saying women women are more bitchy about it when they split up.

Gaby Dabrowski  49:21

No, not necessarily. I don't want to generalize

Kieron Vorster  49:24

No you can you can you can you can you can satisfy we don't mind on the show. Oh,

Daniel Kiernan  49:29

Gaby has had a personal situation we after the French Open partner are split up with her before before the grass court season. So this is something that and that and again, this is this is real real talk on this podcast so is that that's not normal. I guess that's not a normal way to handle things. So what So what the reality of that and this is personal to you Gaby and your your you're the one that's feeling this event gone and played the next week signed in with Bianca, haven't got into the tournament. And then and then what is then the process of trying to find a partner, so close to a Grand Slam? It's at 16 in the world. So tell us about tell us about that. And you know, we're not talking about someone who hasn't had great success in the game, you know who's like clinging on to try and get a partner. We're talking about someone who's gone very deep in Grand Slams has won 1000s events. So so tell us what that experience has been like for you. The last two weeks.

Gaby Dabrowski  50:30

Unbelievably stressful. Yeah, definitely some sleepless nights. Definitely a lot of reaching out to a lot of people, which is okay, but definitely waiting for answers from people is not the easiest experience because you know, people don't answer straight away, they don't see your message. And I'm not the type of person that's going to send out 20 messages to 20 people at the same time and see who my favorite person is. Who responds quickest. Like, I'm sending it to one person and waiting for an answer. That is work. I'm sending it to another person. I'm waiting for an answer if that doesn't work. I'm moving on. So yeah, missed two advanced entry deadlines. So was beholden to the on site sign in, which is what happened in Berlin. Everybody wanted to play the cut on site was maybe like 40, me and Bianca combined, or maybe like yeah, like just under 50. Luckily, here in Eastborne, not everybody wanted to play. So I got in and I played two matches, which is great. And found a partner for Wimbledon, but almost didn't make it into the draw I Yeah, at Team 52 of 57 at the deadline, very different circumstances than I'm used to. But I'm also in a very privileged position to have been able to make a lot of the entry deadlines in advance without a worry for many years. So definitely appreciate that a hell of a lot more now than I ever have. But hopefully smoother sailing moving forward. Yeah. And the personal, personal aspect of things

Daniel Kiernan  52:05

they saw, Gabby,

Kieron Vorster  52:07

I hope it goes alright.

Daniel Kiernan  52:09

You will be much stronger for this experience. You know,

Kieron Vorster  52:14

I'm I'm a big bear, you can cry my shoulder?

Gaby Dabrowski  52:16

Tennis is definitely character building.

Daniel Kiernan  52:19

But isn't it? Isn't it just sure what a cowboy sport we're in as well like, that sort of stuff like the same with us as coaches, you can just be you can be gone, you can be gone

Kieron Vorster  52:30

from the penthouse to the shut off very quickly.

Daniel Kiernan  52:32

No security,

Emily Webley-Smith  52:34

I think it's interesting when

Kieron Vorster  52:36

the reverse is often the shit house to the penthouse very quickly as well. I think

Emily Webley-Smith  52:42

From a doubles perspective, and just when you speak to people who don't know the inside of a sport like we do, like if you're staying with people or people from that town or whatever, they can't quite understand that when you haven't played with someone before. And you're playing on the same team as them that they don't understand that. Like, they're like, Oh, so you haven't played together before? And like No, and they're like, but how are you going to? How are you going to go into, like the match? How are you going to practice together, and they don't get it. But it kind of it can literally be from week to week as a doubles player that you're just randomly pairing up with someone

Gaby Dabrowski  53:14

That you don't even always practice with,

Emily Webley-Smith  53:16

They don't always practice at all. You know, they just find that the normal person finds that very hard to understand. And it's something weird about the sport, that it's a team sport that you're not, you're not preparing or practicing as a team in a lot of circumstances. And

Kieron Vorster  53:32

popular pre Macmillan were one of the most successful double teams ever, and they hate each other. They're never practiced. And

Daniel Kiernan  53:37

I'm showing your age now Vossy tell you what

Kieron Vorster  53:37

I've thought of the magical. Yeah,

Freddie Nielsen  53:43

But let me let me just chime in with saying that the men I know, you have a good example with matrix powers of men, I'm not better if they're also not very nice to each other. And everybody's just three bad results away from one partner think the other partner shit and they could be something better and the grass is always greener on the other side. And it's one of the things that that both as a fan from the outside, and also having been inside it and living it. It's one of the big reasons why I never really got into the doubles, doubles thing because I couldn't relate to it or there's too much loyalty and too much me me me. I don't I struggle with a team sport where it's you play for yourself. I never understood why all the players have individual coaches, I realized quickly that that's because they gotta be able to, to fall on their feet. When they get dumped. I got dumped by my partner. We had team coaches that were his. And then when I got dumped, I was alone so I can see oh, now I understand why everybody has their own individual. And it's I think it's boring as a fan as well, to be honest, that there's not more loyalty and people are mixing and matching and it's something that maybe I need a few years to get back into it but I feel for you Gaby but on as a fan level I think it's boring I missed I want to see people stick together. I want I see the Bryan's and the Woody's and the Hewitt and McMillan's and whoever it is to create a, a big partnership and make create a legacy. And now it's just every, everyone is out there for themselves. And they don't mind throwing each other under the bus.

Gaby Dabrowski  55:17

And I'll just add to that I had a meeting with broadcast couple years ago. And I remember them saying even in terms of doubles, marketability, it was a lot easier to sell doubles teams than it is just digital doubles players, even in terms of like promoting the sport of doubles, I think you're right and sticking together, it definitely is an advantage.

Daniel Kiernan  55:40

Before before we move into our picks, Gaby, remember class is permanent, and we'll be having you on the podcast, whether it's

Kieron Vorster  55:48

permanent, your permanent,

Daniel Kiernan  55:51

we'll be having you on the podcast in

Freddie Nielsen  55:55

Since me and Vossy, still on that, obviously, it's not a requirement to be on the podcast,

Daniel Kiernan  56:01

this is a serious point to two months, six months, 12 months, we'll be talking about a very successful doubles partnership. And they will be regretting not being with you. You know, that's how that's how, that's how this business works. And you will use this in your favor. I'm a big believer that experiences aren't good, or they're bad. They're just experiences. And it's how we how we use those experiences to then, you know, and often we don't know what what that experience was for, until a few months, a year, two years, a few years down the line. And this will all make sense, eventually. And like I say, your class will come through. In terms of our picks the dark horse, this is my proposal. You guys are absolute. You've lost the plot, you've lost the plot, you're you're picking all sorts of dark horses, people that aren't in the tournament, you're picking Grand Slam winners, you're picking I mean, it's literally it's unbelievable. Some of the picks, so so this is my proposal, you're going to have three different picks, you're going to have your winner who's going to win, not Jannik Sinner who you think might win Emily, you know, he will come into the second pick, which is someone who might win. So that's an example, Sinner's your second pick Rublev Gaby is not is not a dark horse. That might be someone that might win. Yeah, Ostapenko, whichever idiot picked us to paint color last time for the French Open. That's someone who might win. And then you've got the third one, which is an actual Dark Horse. It's someone who the listener who doesn't obsess over tennis, but watches. The grand slams the latter stages of the Grand Slams probably doesn't know that it this name. Doesn't know that they want the 250 in Berlin doesn't know that they won the 125 Challenger, whatever it might be. So this is us bringing a fresh talent a fresh name to the party for the listener. Yeah. And we don't advocate gambling, but they might go and put their 50 to one on because Gabby said that this is the person. Yeah. We certainly don't advocate that. But that's that's the that's the point that we're making here. So we're going to start with our outside outsider our proper Dark Horse and Piotr, I've seen you play doubles. Now you can play some doubles, you went quiet on the doubles chat. So we're going to bring our singles coach in here. And you're going to start us off. women's side Dark horse. Give us give us give us a name. Give us someone who if they make quarterfinals, you are like a legend of Control the Controllables because your player has made it to the quarterfinals. It's not a dark horse to win the event.

Piotr Sierzputowski  58:49

Tough decision, but I'm still not sure if that's the right pick with your rules right now. But I would say Katie Boulter that's for me. Definitely.

Daniel Kiernan  59:03

That is a dark horse. That's definitely comes under Dark Horse.

Piotr Sierzputowski  59:08

Okay, so that's my pickk.

Emily Webley-Smith  59:11

Camila Giorgi.

Daniel Kiernan  59:14

Gaby

Gaby Dabrowski  59:16

My pick is Mira Andreeva, she's playing last round qualities.

Daniel Kiernan  59:21

That's my pick. That's who I've got written down. What's the what's the furthest Alexandrova has gone into Grand Slam before?

Freddie Nielsen  59:33

Don't know if she qualified. she's close to top 20 Now right.

Daniel Kiernan  59:36

Let's be honest, who's heard of her? Let's listen to not many

Gaby Dabrowski  59:42

Third rounds her best result for Alexandrova

Daniel Kiernan  59:44

Oh, come on. Surely I can have her as my Dark Horse.

Freddie Nielsen  59:48

Gonna be mine too.

Daniel Kiernan  59:51

This is why you gotta get in quick. Freddie. Gaby's taking mine. So you know, I've had to jump ship. So whose

Freddie Nielsen  59:57

Is that a part of the rule that no two People can have no it's not

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:01

It's not it's not you can come on I'll let you jump on jump on my ship as well Vossy furiously looking at the drawer over there or looking at the list.

Kieron Vorster  1:00:13

So I'll go with Darko Sheriff doesn't want to mess on graph

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:00:20

that's really some gambling

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:36

That's all she goes on the back back courts at Wimbledon a liberal on the green Claire but Vossy you are loyal. I'll give you that you went for her last time as well. So I'll give you it's it's loyalty

Freddie Nielsen  1:00:51

he was I was settling case one she ended up winning so maybe there's something to the madness.

Daniel Kiernan  1:00:55

So while you're out at Vossy while you've got your list out what about the What about the second that the second phase is someone who they could win it but it's a bit of a dark horse to win

Kieron Vorster  1:01:07

I'm gonna go Leila Fernandez. That's basically hasn't one two. Let's see on the graph or dangerous,

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:24

But I think that's it. That's the third part. That's the same anyway. That's fine. Oh, I would have that as a mortgage.

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:01:31

So I give you an example. Can I give example I think that's why

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:42

she is for me. She's the perfect Okay,

Kieron Vorster  1:01:45

then I'll go second bought my second one. Madison Keys

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:49

I will give you that.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:01:54

So sorry. The second dark horse can be a former Slam champion. Yes.

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:58

It's out of the So Ons Jabeur. I hope she doesn't play your first pick. I know first round. You just watched them play today. So they're both in your head? Yeah, maybe Gaby the wreckage? Yeah. Sort of pick. Freddie, you on my boat as well to get mine and field support. You

Freddie Nielsen  1:02:24

No I'm gonna be a little less fantastic. And maybe you can say if it's approved or not, but I'm gonna go Iga.

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:02:31

No, I would say totally approving for number two might win. But actually

Freddie Nielsen  1:02:37

nobody expects her to win.

Kieron Vorster  1:02:40

She's expected to win.

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:02:43

Because she won juniors

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:46

Yeah, but she had a good coach then feel okay, I'm gonna give it to you. I mean, if Piotr lets you have it, then. Then that's enough qualification for me. And Vossy Do you want to go to your first pick? Now?

Kieron Vorster  1:03:02

Yeah, Sabalenka don't go to never let me down.

Daniel Kiernan  1:03:06

Saba Lanka. Emily. Right. The key now, if we have an eager and if we've got eager in part two, that was my peak. Like, we have to we have two choices now. Yeah, I'm

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:03:21

going for rybakina as she is she ready? She pulled out last week. I think she's ready. I saw her practicing today. I don't think she she has any more problems.

Daniel Kiernan  1:03:32

No. Do you think it was a little tactical get ready for the real deal?

Emily Webley-Smith  1:03:38

Along with the people that pulled out these four?

Daniel Kiernan  1:03:41

Yeah, it's true. A lot of them actually. And are we thinking that maybe southern link is going to have a scar tissue from the French going into Wimbledon?

Kieron Vorster  1:03:53

Why would you think that? Leave her alone.

Daniel Kiernan  1:03:56

Why she chose she chose she choked her child.

Kieron Vorster  1:03:59

I can use that term lightly and that didn't choke. It's one of them things leave her alone. She's gonna come to the fore you watch the space ladies and gentlemen. She's gonna kick them off these next two weeks. Don't worry. She's a racehorse. She's in a stable. She's in tip top condition. She's fine. She's going to come out swinging and grunting and take some

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:20

Gaby, although

Gaby Dabrowski  1:04:23

I'll go Iga.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:25

It will be amazing. I mean, if he got if he could win Wimbledon, I think it changes. It changes the game a little bit. It's a real statement. Anybody else to go? I'm going to Jeremy rabbit. Kena Freddie. Well, I'm in the Vaci corner. Saba Linka. I am a little bit worried about the choke at French. How what effect that has a little bit worried as well. She got duffed up last week as well. But I think I think she'll be I think she'll be good. Be good to go. So So let's see. So we haven't gotten to far away from the big three and as we move into into the men's side let's do it a different way let's go for our winners first. We'll the pot one pot one to start with put your hand up if you are not Novak Djokovic this is the this is an audio podcast.

Kieron Vorster  1:05:22

I'm gonna call us out. I'll put my hand up okay,

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:25

so nobody had their hand up but you're gonna go Alcaraz.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:05:30

Did you see that stat that he hasn't lost a completed match on center court since 2013.

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:37

I mean it doesn't it doesn't surprise me.

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:05:40

And I would say that what we forgot about in Roland Garros here will play a huge role which is best of five on grass experience for novac

Daniel Kiernan  1:05:52

we call it let ourselves down again. After Roland Garros? I don't think any of us are ready to do that. So it's the it's the Novak the Novak train apart from Kieran who's jumped off and now we move to pot to UConn Taylor Fritz. I believe Kieron. Not often wonderful see. Why did you see any spawn with the forehead.

Kieron Vorster  1:06:22

He's got so many kinks in his armor that it just seems like he's changed something with that. I'm sure you know Paul Paul anacondas that I was with Mike Russell social, they're gonna work it out. But now just definitely possible for me. So my number two pick. I'm going to go Rune number two pick. I mean, I saw practice. A lot of Queens is playing it playing with an element of freedom. It's nice for me to see him close up. And I think there'll be less expectation on him at Wimbledon versus him going into Roland Garros with all the growth you have on the on the places

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:03

who's won

Kieron Vorster  1:07:05

their quarter. Good shout out. Here's

Daniel Kiernan  1:07:10

maybe controversial, it was your number three. He was my number two as well. I think called it I think Korda is a two No, I think he's looking at this is, is the 10th favorite is the 10th favorite. Very, very similar to actually actually Rune and Taylor Fritz in the stakes. And I don't know if that means obviously he's class. isn't he I mean, he's a seriously class. I mean, he came out last week and said he was one of the favorites, which was interesting, talking about Rue that adding expectation. You don't necessarily want to add that extra expectation, but Korda maybe did that last week, it might have been a throwaway comment, but I think a comment like that maybe is a little bit immature. It's not what he needs. He could just go under the radar. But I think it caught quarters or one. I don't think there's many that can win on the grass, especially on the men's side. And I think Korda over the years is someone who could.

Freddie Nielsen  1:08:12

Okay, so if I if I'm not allowed to pick him as a third, then I'm leaning more towards some of the winners, Bublik or Griekspoor kind of guys. I don't know if you probably can stay.

Daniel Kiernan  1:08:25

I accept Bublik.

Freddie Nielsen  1:08:28

Yeah, exactly. And he's won Halle and I heard that down the last in the last I don't know. 20, 20 years of the guys who haven't been Roger Federer to win Halle has lost first round of Wimbledon Shut up. There was something so I can't remember how many years but it's pretty interesting. But before he obviously has injury history, and five status could be difficult. Mannarino could be one as well. I'm kind of grasping at straws here because my number three pick was cancelled.

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:03

There was your two Holger So you had Holger in the two part as well. Okay, so we haven't got this criteria sorted have we guys yet? But

Freddie Nielsen  1:09:13

I think we're doing good. I like the criteria. It's something to work with. Yeah.

Kieron Vorster  1:09:16

Are we still on number two?

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:18

I think he needs to give his two I think

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:09:21

Hard decision about number two because my number three would be Alex De Minaur that's my number.

Freddie Nielsen  1:09:31

No you can't have De Minaur.

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:33

Did you go out for dinner with Katie and Alex this week or something?

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:09:37

No but, that's um, you know, like following the pathway, they have positive energy together, so why not? But number two, I would say that's probably controversial too. But Cameron Norrie. The same with them, you know, they're like similar similar rankings last week's results. Of course, I'll explain a little bit better but you have super solid players. So,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:10:02

Am I allowed Andy as number three?

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:04

Yes. 100%

Emily Webley-Smith  1:10:06

I'm having Andy

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:07

Andy's Andy's not in the top two. I don't think

Freddie Nielsen  1:10:10

He has a few slams before though.

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:13

But he's got a new, he's got metal hip mate, he's got all sorts. And if we, if we go on if we go in recent history, you know, he's not even seated, you know, you got claws and he pushed, he pushed hard to get seeded, maybe could have made a smarter decision and not played Queens and played a lower level event to get them over the line into into the seedings. Because I think that makes a massive difference, you know, he, he could easily be coming up against Novak early, Alcaraz early, whereas if he was seeded, you'd like to think he would get himself to the third round. And, you know, things start to open up a little bit, but I think I'm pleased Andy's in the conversation, because the two names I've got written down here, Andy Murray. And and the other one is last year's finalist hasn't been mentioned yet.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:11:01

Then, you know, the grasscourt seeding with the formula that one wouldn't have, does that only count for the top 8 seeds? Or does that count for all the 32 seeds?

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:08

It's a good question. I know that Alcaraz is the top seed this year, based on the formula. Well, that makes me think that they're just following the rankings. I don't know if anyone's got these keep that for me. Well, last year, they changed. I think so I think they must. Because if there's if there's a formula, Djokovic is the is the top seed, so when I saw the other day that Alcaraz's the top seed, they must have just gone. I think they've just gone to what the ranking ranking equals seed now. I think they've got

Freddie Nielsen  1:11:39

speaking of the seeds. Do you think that Andy would be thinking about the seeds? I would think he just does. Whatever he thinks is the best to to get him ready to win Wimbledon. That's my impression of his frame of mind. What do you think?

Daniel Kiernan  1:11:52

I don't I think he tried everything he possibly could to get seeded. I think I think I think he didn't play a French Open to prepare on the grass to get see I think Wimbledon is the event for Andy that he believes he can have a proper running, like in his heart of hearts. I think he and I don't know this. He doesn't

Emily Webley-Smith  1:12:17

playing de Minaur third round is tough. Right? So absolutely.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:20

Well, De Minaur is not the one he wants. He doesn't like that matchup one bit, you know, but But yeah, I think I do. I think that's how Andy thinks, I think he's, it's interesting, because we've talked a lot about mindset today. And I think and Andy Murray even going through what he's gone through, is driven by results rankings, you know, all of all of those bits, actually, you know, and it seems he's probably got that perspective. But he I think he's tennis is very highly driven by that. And I think a lot of his scheduling is driven by getting the ranking to, to get to that as well. And I think he

Freddie Nielsen  1:13:01

thinks that he thinks that he can win Wimbledon. I think he thinks that he can win.

Kieron Vorster  1:13:05

I agree. Yeah, I

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:08

Don't know. I don't know. I would, I think

Kieron Vorster  1:13:14

Definitely playing Wimbledon thinking he can win 100%

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:17

I think he would put himself in pot two not pot one.

Freddie Nielsen  1:13:23

Do yu think?.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:26

I don't I don't think

Freddie Nielsen  1:13:29

But I definitely think that he thinks that he's there to win. He's coming to Wimbledon.

Kieron Vorster  1:13:34

Yeah, I'm playing for Smarties to pick up that golden golden trophy at the end.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:40

I would disagree. And I think I think we're there's, there's a belief system there's that's deep within us. And then there's like a belief system that sits there and what we say and I think in that real deep belief system. He doesn't believe he's winning another grand slam. I think he believes that. Wimbledon is a one that he could maybe get a quarterfinals or you could go on a bit of a run. But let me let's see, but I I don't think he believes that the other slams that it's going to happen I think I think a lot of his years been around getting to this point at Wimbledon to be prepared on the grass to have a run and and I think last year who was Isner I think he lost to last year and and he knew he knew as a lot of the men did last year that draw was opening up Kyrgios knew it, Kyrgios saw it early. You know you saw the second round you could see and I think if Murray got past Isner it was like okay that I'm seeing people I can beat I'm not sure Andy's going in thinking he can beat Novak you know I'm not sure he's going to think you can beat Alcaraz. But if he gets the, right draw. And as much as we'd like to say that you've got to beat everyone in the tournament. If you're seeded the Draw gives you a much higher chance of having a favorable draw to a certain part of the part of the of the tournament. If you're not seeded, yet, the likelihood is you're going to, you're going to get a shitty draw. And I think I think it's bigger than we realize,

Freddie Nielsen  1:15:18

to that point. But yeah, you're right. But at the same time, you can also be lucky that if you're, if you're one of the lowest seeds, you're going to run into one of the highest seeds quick. And if you're not seeded, you can be lucky and you can avoid them. You know, there's, there's a lot of ifs.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:31

Yeah, maybe, but draws are important. That Katey Boulter, we've talked about PRT didn't beat a player inside 130 of the world and won a WTA tournament in Nottingham the other week.

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:15:42

That's why she's my third pick not second.

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:49

But she's, you know what, that's what's going to happen. So you need the drawers, the drawers can open up but it's going to be interesting. Kyrgios any chance worth worth the conversation? Or is he just as he is he one going to play to us Sorry,

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:16:06

I have to interrupt because today one of your boys was hitting with him. And he's hired until the end of the tournament. His name is Tom.

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:13

I saw that.

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:16:15

He got a message like he's every time set up with we've got to get the rest of the term. So that's Sotogrande Academy.

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:25

Tom Tom Lindley from the academy is over there hitting so any he's got good banter, Tom. So it might be it might be more for his banter than it is for Tom Tom is gonna find himself in all sorts of trouble just to fly out there and look after him myself. But that's that's good to hear. So has Kyrgios got a chance Kieron Has he got a chance.

Kieron Vorster  1:16:48

You got a chance if he's in the draw. If you're gonna if you're gonna if you're gonna look at like the Racing Post and look at the form. No, you haven't got a chance. You know, you haven't you haven't played any matches. I saw Calvin. Calvin beat beat on in the last seven years. You've gone past the Grand Slam first week one. You've never won a monster Series event. There's heartbreak. It's been 13 in the world.

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:16

But he made final Wimbledon last year. So there's pedigree, yeah.

Kieron Vorster  1:17:20

Yeah. But then again, again, you're talking or you know, utilizing your luck at the same time. You know, he he had a good quarterfinal against Garin. Then he didn't play the semis because Nadal got hurt. And then, you know, and actually, I think that worked against him. Not playing from the Wednesday to the Sunday, you had too much time to think about the final. But if you're going if you're going on a form, you can't you're you're you're relying on reputation from a year ago. He goes on for the undisclosed he has in place is not match fit. So there's a chance that you know, he's going to start getting niggles early on. It's all gonna get sore shoulder may get sore. Just from you know, the repeat of nah, I don't think he's in the running this year.

Freddie Nielsen  1:18:09

At that point, he was playing a lot last year and coming in good form. It was a big contrast.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:18:14

Last week, he entered and then he withdrew.

Kieron Vorster  1:18:17

He withdrew Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:19

He play he played and lost first round, and then he withdrew. So he hasn't he's got not he's not nor to understand somebody's belt. So healthy or not. It sounds like he's not but. When you serve like Nick Kyrgios. I don't know how healthy you need to be for some matches. You know,

Freddie Nielsen  1:18:38

you need to be you need to be serving like that for 21 sets.

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:43

So I've talked about winning the event, but he could serve his way through a couple of matches.

Freddie Nielsen  1:18:50

Snap a couple. We were talking about him as going well, then,

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:55

You know, you get you get into round three. Who knows? I don't think so. I don't think so. But I think he's, he's worth being in the conversation. I want to hear the pot threes. There's a few that potentially could be mentioned. You mentioned Mannarino. He's also on my list here, Freddie. It's like you guys been looking at my list I think in advance but any any any names for us to be watching out for Struff is a one. I don't know if I'm allowed of in pot three. But he's, he's he was my pick. As someone who I could actually see doing some real damage. And I used to sort of player I could see just popping up in the quarterfinals in all the odd time maybe making the semi finals, because I think that sort of player at Wimbledon does come through times. So he was the one that that was that was at the top of my list as a as a genuine Darkhorse.

Freddie Nielsen  1:19:49

Yeah I mentioned before I think he's one to look out for he has a big potential game and it's coming in with with with some good wins in the last few weeks.

Kieron Vorster  1:20:00

Yes, my third pick is and actually I demoted him to my third pick based on the fact that he's shagging a lot. And that would be a definite setback. So I think just on that basis, he goes to the third. The third tier is very much in love with data sources Canada, Ronnie, and yeah, he's his little brain is really taking control of the tennis right now. So I would like to demote into the third pick.

Daniel Kiernan  1:20:28

Do you also let the world of Twitter know that Kieron as his his result was announced, losing today in Mallorca? To which I believe your reply was quite simple. He is shagging too much. So is this is this a scientific? Is this scientifically been proven that this is not good for your game?

Kieron Vorster  1:20:53

Not good for your game. You got to focus on your tennis. When women are women. I love women, but they're dangerous when you're playing tennis. You got to really see that as zoning in, as women will say men are dangerous as well. But also mate, mate, mate, mate like that. She's on the court. She loves playing with the one she loves. That was does it? Instagram she wrote last week. That's loving Yeah,

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:15

it's gonna be a hot topic. The Sun newspaper are going to be all over that story.

Kieron Vorster  1:21:20

Yeah, my first pick, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go ever 150 to one with Ladbrokes

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:26

just told me I just told he's fit. Me too.

Kieron Vorster  1:21:32

Yeah, me too. Don't worry. There's no nibble there.

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:36

I was told he's not not good from the hellhole that you had him in a couple of weeks ago.

Kieron Vorster  1:21:41

Yeah, we had a few this week as well. All the

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:45

Gabi.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:21:46

So I didn't see my second pick. My second pick is Hubi Hurkacz and my third pick is Andy.

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:53

Very good. I like the Hurkacz one as well. Beautiful serve.

Kieron Vorster  1:21:57

I think that's a great shot.

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:59

Beautiful. So the problem is he never wins a match that isn't seven, six, and the third set of fifth set. He loves a long match so that he's going to be knackered after the first couple of rounds. He needs a couple of easy wins, which he doesn't get. And then Andy, we should all be on the Andy train. So we're coming to the end guys. I've got I was gonna do a quiz. But I thought you know what, it's a bit. It's a bit predictive. Freddie always wins, you know? So, but I do want to check if anybody knows. Just one question and then I'm going to ask you about a video that I sent you guys that as the good students that you are viewing watched Why do Wimbledon bring in Hawks? Does anybody know that?

Freddie Nielsen  1:22:46

To keep the doves away from pooping

Kieron Vorster  1:22:51

Its the pigeons

Freddie Nielsen  1:22:56

I'm claiming the second language on that one.

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:58

So the key is to keep the pigeons away. Okay. Does anybody know what the name of the famous Hawk is that Wimbledon?

Freddie Nielsen  1:23:10

Tony Hawk.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:23:12

I've met the hawk. Yeah.

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:16

Because he or she nice because if I say he or she then that's 50% of the names.

Emily Webley-Smith  1:23:23

I don't remember. No, it was a bit scary.

Daniel Kiernan  1:23:28

So no, nobody knows the answer. The next question was going to be Do you know the other two? Or if you don't know the name of a famous one, you're not going to know the other two. So the famous Hawk of Wimbledon is called Rufus. So that's that's our little bit of boring trivia, that someone is screaming in the car. They knew they were there chat and Rufus. You know, someone's on the motorway looking at them wondering why they're shouting that. So but my last question, the video I sent you was, was a match between caught off and Davidovich and caught off did what we did all the time as juniors, he had a short ball and he was told as juniors we were told the best place to go is right at somebody, you know, one from a tactical standpoint, you know, and to maybe there is a little bit of intimidation factor. That is how I was brought up playing tennis. For some reason. Nowadays, it seems like these things happen. And the players go in a monumental sulk to the point where they're not even properly shaking hands at the end. So my question is, are tennis players? Too soft nowadays Piotr?

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:24:40

Absolutely.

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:41

Gaby for certain

Piotr Sierzputowski  1:24:44

for some of them, of course. But in the past we had the conversation WTA drama. I don't think it's accurate right now, I would say overall tennis drama because it's the same. So what's the point of dividing it? Right now,

Daniel Kiernan  1:25:00

Absolutely, Gaby, someone tags you. In other balls a little bit below the height of the net, there's not a great, there's not a great place to go. There's not many places that you can go. It's different if it's a smash maybe on top of the net and you know, the hitting your head, but they hit your shooter you're not sulking over.

Gaby Dabrowski  1:25:18

I mean, my partner accidentally pegged me in our warmup today. For me, it's like, it's very normal in doubles. I think people get pegged all the time. I never do it on purpose. Some people do, which is probably the, that's the issue around it as if it's on purpose. Because, well, one, it depends if they like really apologize or not, like if they're like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. Like, they probably were not intending to hit you. But like, sometimes you're just really nervous, and you need a target. And it's like, hard to control. But if you're like, not nervous, and you have the whole court, then it's like, why, but like, I don't know, in doubles, there's tons of pegging. So I don't really care. I think if you hit a really short ball, and you're at the net, and you should be ready.

Daniel Kiernan  1:26:06

So the camera nori one Freddie, on in Rome, on jurkovich was not on purpose as a tennis, but I didn't think it was.

Freddie Nielsen  1:26:16

I don't think so. And I also think a lot of the time subconsciously, when the when the players get upset, they're probably pissed themselves for giving the opponent the chance to do it, because they hit a shit shot or something like that. I used to be upset about that, you know, I would initially be upset and I needed something to vent my anger on and easiest, the opponent. But in actual fact, I was just annoyed with myself for forgiving myself in that situation. It happens. So be it move on. I think the Gabby's point, you can see it sometimes like if you concede the point, which I've done a few times, turn my back, and still getting drilled straight in the back. And there's probably some intent. But, but sometimes you do it to intimidate to make you if there's a staredown, after there's a few players used to do that, there's probably some intent. And you also have an understanding as a player of when it's controllable, and when it's not, you know, control the controllables. And if it's, you can kind of gauge the situation during the match. And you, you have a really good idea of when it's on purpose and when it's not. And when it's like on purpose in this situation, you understand that it's obviously tactical, because he would be stupid to try and be cute and played around the other guy and lose the points. And there should be an understanding

Emily Webley-Smith  1:27:32

That many options on that goal. I don't know. I think he expected him to move and he didn't move.

Freddie Nielsen  1:27:40

I don't think there's anything wrong with with twin deployments. Yeah, exactly. And to your point, yeah, I think I think there are people in general not

Kieron Vorster  1:27:48

just out of out of the sport in the best way the best if you guys have in place the player can anticipate and get across and perhaps his best place to go is just go straight at the body.

Freddie Nielsen  1:28:00

But I want to say I wanted to say that I don't think it's just tennis. I think it's in sports in general. One of my pet peeves is football players just making a meal out of getting tackled, if you see like Graham's Souness in the in the 80s going in waist high with with people got up and shook hands and moved on. So I think it's just something that is this generation.

Kieron Vorster  1:28:22

I mean, you can use you can also go in cricket. I mean, the past foreigners would target the body to ruffle you up. You know, that's what that's what they did. If you're a fast bowler, you use those assets to ruffle feathers. I mean, Steve Harmison did it with Ricky Ponting in the 2005 tests at Lords part of the game. And if you if you can't accept as part of the games then piss off,

Emily Webley-Smith  1:28:43

Stare down's phenomenal though. Yeah. Yeah.

Kieron Vorster  1:28:47

Oh, Alan Donald Michael Atherton. 1999. That's an unbelievable,

Freddie Nielsen  1:28:52

Are you a cricket fan Vossy or just what's happening here.

Daniel Kiernan  1:28:55

What we'll do. We're opening up a new audience here guys.

Kieron Vorster  1:29:03

Yeah, it's just you know, it's just the fact that you know, we're talking we're talking about something that's a part of the sport and I think yeah, there's babyish about it. No, it's a smash and hits that players will know that crying about is bullshit. Novak had the opportunity in football, playing that percentage this year, he'll go for the body.

Freddie Nielsen  1:29:24

Exactly. You think he's doing something different is the Wimbledon title. State. Correct? Come on.

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:30

Don't we all we all agree tennis players are getting soft. That was a much better version of the quiz.

Freddie Nielsen  1:29:37

I want to say that athletes are getting soft.

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:42

Maybe it's people,

Freddie Nielsen  1:29:43

maybe people that too. I'm not gonna disagree with that.

Daniel Kiernan  1:29:47

So we've had two hours of tennis chat guys. We've come to the conclusion you all need to toughen up and. That's the point that we are going to leave it enjoy Wimbledon. You guys are stars. So as always, thank you for coming on. And we look forward to the couple of weeks about all the all the storylines that are going to be flying. Good luck, Gabby. And

Kieron Vorster  1:30:10

Gaby, good luck in London in a couple of days.

Daniel Kiernan  1:30:14

So there you have it. Once bitten, twice shy, we aren't going to make that same mistake of going against the 23 time Grand Slam champion Novak Djokovic, which I saw the other day. I don't remember exactly who it was. But it was a big name in the sport. They were they were next to the Wimbledon trophies. And they basically said, Well, that one's a given. But let's see who's going to win the women's event is the overconfidence in Novak Djokovic going to bite him this time. We don't like to think that these players are actually looking at social media. And that looking at newspapers and listening to what people have to say on the TV, but uh, for sure they do. And for sure it has an impact. And being able to go under the radar helps a lot, but I can hear what you're saying. It's Novak Djokovic, he's been there. He's done it. He's got the T shirts, and so much more. It's gonna be hard to see that he doesn't make his way to number 24. But so many, so many things can happen. And I just would love to see well, we'd love to see the Andy Murray, wouldn't we? We'd love to see Andy Murray and who knows? Who knows? That would be the dream. But I would also love to see a call us Alcaraz. Novak Djokovic, final two weeks Sunday, Carlos Alcaraz has shown that he can play on the grass courts at Queen's this year. He's made his mistakes at the French Open. You know, he didn't take care of his body or the tension got to him, as he said, and I think he will be a different animal. But what what a matchup that would be and I think if we could have that rivalry starting to form over the next few years, I think Men's Tennis is in a great place. And what did you think about it Iga in pot to you know, he got the got the head nod from Piotr. It was maybe a nice outside thinking there that Freddie had when he was talking about Iga, touchy God, when they sang the cross courts are playing a lot slower. The drawers come out, she's avoided the big guns that are in the other half of the draw Sabalenka rybakina In the same side of the draw, it's going to be interesting. The doubles drawers look fascinating. If you look at the section, Gabby Dombroski. She's unbelievable section there. If her partner Krunich can come through that part of the set of the draw. And who's to say they can't go all of the way. And class Palma who they spoke about it at the start? Again, they get it going they start serving big or is it going to be Mektic Pavic like I called wouldn't surprise me one little bit, you know, once you release, and you take that expectation off your shoulders last week, at Eastborne 6462 winners in the final again, Dodic and Krajicek 6262 over Ram and Salisbury. This is after we recorded this episode. You know this team could be the ones to look out for men's tennis. We talk a lot on the podcast about management of expectation. And just maybe the splitting up before the grass court season has allowed them to remove any expectation and pressure. There's going to be lots to look out for. If you are fortunate enough to have one of those golden tickets in your hand. Have an amazing time. I hope you get the sun cream on and you're not bringing the umbrella out. But what would Wimbledon be without some rainy days. I will be following every every part of the way. I'm not looking forward to watching Today at Wimbledon without Sue Barker. But we've got to move on. And I'm sure that we will get into our new routines wishing you well, wherever you are in the world have a brilliant Wimbledon fortnight. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan, and we are Control the Controllables