Sports Chatter, Thai Identity, Filmmaking, and Grief in a Nutshell w/Jon Hill

0:05 Hey everyone, welcome to the Bungie Chronicles podcast. This is Randy Kim. And today I am here with John Hill. So who is John? He is a two-time Emmy award-winning producer and director living in Los Angeles. You can find him working at Fox Sports Digital as their director of creative video. He also has an award-winning feature film, Above the Clouds, which can be seen. And I am very excited to have you on. I also want to say thank you for reaching out to me and sharing a little bit about your work. And also, I know that you're a big sports fan. Which is kind of interesting because I never get to really talk about sports in my podcast, like almost ever.

0:47 And I don't think people know, or at least my audience or friends know that I've honestly been a big sports fan, especially when I was in my 20s. Like we're the same age. Like I was that kind of guy that used to call on radio stations in my 20s. about what's going on with the White Sox, what's going on with the Bulls. And so I would be into these deep dives. And I was always really into these radio and TV personalities. And I know that this is a world that you are very familiar with. So I'm curious. So who are you a big fan of? Oh, man. Well, thanks for the introduction, Randy. I always love a good introduction. And you nailed it.

1:28 It makes me feel all warm inside. So thank you, man. Thank you. Your question is what – who's my favorite sports team? Yes. Sorry. Yes. Oh, so I grew up in the Philadelphia area. So I grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia. So I'm wearing my Eagles gear today and a really big basketball fan. NBA is probably what I follow the most outside of football and a big Sixers fan. Oh, boy. I'm sorry about that. I know. It's been a rough one. But you know what? You know what? Like I think that's what – I love about sports and probably you do too is like, it is, it is the best it's real life storytelling and the, you end up, following these teams forever and they always let you down and then but it doesn't matter because it's it's your team ends up becoming like you know your family that's like the terrible cousin that you have to like keep bringing around and you wish you could get rid of them but you can't you know you're born into it um so i sometimes i'm jealous of people who who get to pick whatever team they are because they're from a place that didn't really you know have a pro team and you can just pick something I feel like the absentee father in this case because I have disappeared.

2:44 I detached myself away from the Bulls quite a bit. The White Sox especially. Not to say that I want to be a bandwagon. For me, I want to root for my teams when I know that there's hope. When there's promise. I'm not looking for a championship contender right away. But I kind of need to see the building blocks happen. What the Bears are doing right now I see hope. I was very cautious at the beginning of the season. I'm like, okay, I feel like this could turn around with Ben Johnson being the coach. But with the Bulls, they've been in purgatory. There just seems to be no clue. There might be right now with Josh Giddey, but... for a while it's like there's been no expectations of them going beyond like the play-in and then for the White Sox it's been a colossal disaster since 2021 and I've been so far emotionally removed from that and also I'm not a Cubs fan so and I don't really watch hockey that much either so I don't So it's like, it's very interesting to be a fan in that sense, but also like, I think for you being a 76ers fan, it's got to be very tough when you have to see Joel Embiid, you know, not living up to his potential, Paul George for that contract, and then In the past, you had Ben Simmons.

4:06 I'm sorry you're bringing these names up here. Wow, man. I thought we'd talk about something light like my dad dying. I mean, you know, I will say that I am a sports troll. I am a troll. Oh, okay. I'm learning. I'm learning, Randy. But the thing is that I never get to do that because my teams have really sucked where I can't do that. I can't troll Packers fans. I can't really troll Lions fans like we used to. So it's like, yeah. The world is a balance, right? You got to have Michael Jordan for six straight championships. And then you had the great Walter Payton and great Bears. But now you have to suffer through it. So growing up, you had the great life.

4:48 Yes. Now you have to suffer through it. Yeah, and I agree with you 110% because I think – and this is why I love sports. And this is why – it's really funny because in Los Angeles, not everyone – a lot of people are in the entertainment industry, in the movie industry. And a lot of my friends actually don't like sports. They do the, oh, it's sports ball or whatever. They make fun of it, all that stuff. But to me, it's just storytelling, right? And the thing about storytelling is – You want to root for your hero. So if your hero is, you know, like you said, like your team, you want to have hope in them. You want to hope that the movie you're watching, the character will eventually learn from their mistakes and become the good guy.

5:29 You know, you got to hope that Luke Skywalker becomes the, you know. the Jedi that that he was promised. And then when you're stuck with the team where there's no hope and the owners are terrible and don't know what they're doing or they're bad people. And you're just like, why? I'm not watching this show. You know, I'm not I'm not putting my time into the the real housewives of, you know, Chicago basketball. But when you do get a team, And even if they are flawed, even if they're flawed like a Joel Embiid or, you know, Podcast P, you could still root for flawed characters. You know, I think that's one thing that I like to do as a filmmaker is like not all characters have to be perfect.

6:10 We can be flawed. We can have our mistakes. But at the end of the day, we're rooting for people. So that's how I look at the Sixers, a flawed character that I am really hoping they get their act together. Yeah. Like who would be a sports hero in Philly for you? You know, that's really interesting. A lot of times it's just like the people I... I have good personalities and have good characters, right? So someone like Tyrese Maxey is just like always smiling, always nice. You know, he says his please and thank yous. So those kind of guys are really great to root for because you want them to do well. You know, you want society to be all Tyrese Maxey's, you know what I mean?

6:54 But then, you know... Philadelphia basketball, like a guy like Allen Iverson, who is the most flawed of individuals. And he'll tell you that too, you know, dealing with so much of his upbringing, his struggles and stuff. And sometimes you kind of like seeing, you know, growing up, Iverson was my guy because he had all the flaws and he just was this small guy that played with against these monsters. And there was no player more exciting to root for. But So like, like I love Iverson. Um, I really love a lot of these Eagles guys, you know, I love Devante Smith. Um, I got to meet him and interview him once and he was a really nice guy.

7:36 So like the joke is anytime I meet someone in my, in my industry, we're best friends now. Um, so I put Devante Smith as my best friend. Um, Let's see who else. Yeah, you know, it's just been fun. It's been fun. As I get older, the sports doesn't – the losses don't hurt as much. I think when you're so invested in it – now I'm kind of more just like I let it flow through me. If a team loses, I just have to – You just have to live to tell another story, you know? I hear you. I hear you on that. And how does Philadelphia feel about Donovan McNabb now? Now that the Phillies have finally won the Super Bowl, what's the relationship with Donovan McNabb and the city?

8:22 I'm curious about that. You know, that's a good question. He was always a divided individual. I would love McNabb growing up. I was a big truther. I was like, McNabb's great. You know, he's the best thing we've had in a long time. He's a Chicago guy, too. Yeah, he's a Chicago guy, you know. But I think his post football and he obviously didn't get us and he got us a Super Bowl flamed out there. But his post Super Bowl or his post playing career has been kind of He's been bringing a lot of what I would call sad loser energy. He looks like he needs to...

9:02 He's just been getting in trouble every once in a while. So I don't think Philadelphia really... I think they... Not everyone loved him when he played here. And he hasn't done much in his post-playing career for people to love him more. He's no Jason Kelsey. You know what I mean? Or something like that. Even Iverson is still like... He's around and then, like I said, again, his personality. And Charles Barkley. And Charles Barkley still. Yeah. Yeah. And they show love too. So I think that's a different, they, the thing about Philadelphia is like, if you love Philadelphia, Philadelphia will love you back. If you kind of put up a resistance to it or.

9:45 something like that or you don't feel like you belong and maybe because he wasn't born there you know then philadelphia will will turn on you as well why do you think ben sammons gave up on his career and especially philly because it's just one of the bigger i know tragedy is a huge word for me to be using here but like But it's got to be the most perplexing sports stories in recent years. This is a guy who was a three-time All-Star off the bat. I mean, he was the number one pick. He was picked over, I hate to remind you again, over Jason Tatum. I wonder about why his trajectory fell off the way it did ever since that playoff, where he was afraid to shoot the ball and was afraid to get into the free throw line.

10:30 Yeah. I think, so this is something that I think is really interesting. And this is going to be me, one part, psychoanalyzing a person I've never met before. Right. And also based off things I've read and people I've talked to who know the situation. But oftentimes, there's a bigger thing. And this actually, I think, happens in the Asian American community too, right? Because this happened to me growing up. When you were so gifted at something, it becomes easy. And when things become easy, you don't have to put in quite the amount of hard work that someone else needs to put in.

11:12 And then at one point the world catches up to you, right? Like I didn't have to study as I was so smart as like a three or four year old. I, you know, I was killing the math exams. I was, I was in all of the honors class, all that stuff. And then you get, and so you don't have to try hard. You don't have to study. You don't have to learn how to learn. And then you get to college and you're like, oh, wait, I'm actually failing all my classes. You know, like the it was so easy before. I think that was Ben Simmons. I think as a as a as a teenager growing up, he was the biggest, the fastest one and one of the most incredible athletes out there. And he's dominating, you know, as a kid in Australia.

11:53 So you have a different level of competition there. He goes to college, he plays a few games, doesn't make the tournament, decides to quit, doesn't want to be in college at all. Number one draft pick. And that was the thing, he never needed to learn how to shoot. He never needed to develop his game. And he was getting praise and getting the money and the accolades and the parties and the cars and the women and doing all that stuff. And then I finally just caught up to him. You can only be faster and stronger and quicker than everyone up until a certain point. At some point, you have to be able to people figure out. And after a couple of years, he just never he never thought he needed to just rebuild a shot and start from the beginning.

12:38 And it just caught up to him. And I think that's the difference between his probably mental makeup versus other people where other people would be like, look, I got to be Kobe Bryant. I guess you 10,000 jumpers every day kind of thing. My understanding is that that wasn't who he was. Yeah, I think that there should be a good 30 for 30 in 10, 15 years about his life. I hope they get to produce that because I would be very interested in figuring out the psyche of Ben Simmons, especially what he's been going through the last couple of years. I mean, he's doing well financially, so I don't think there's anything to worry about there. I would guess a bold prediction is that you will see him on a reality show very soon.

13:20 Wow. Do you think he'll be dating a Kardashian? Oh, well, I think he did for a little bit. Oh, did he? He tried. He might have, yeah. But yeah, I could see him being, you know, some sort of bachelor show or some real housewives or something like that. I could see that. I think he cared more about being famous than he did about being... a great basketball player which is yeah and also like for me like a big sports hero is like um dennis rodman i felt like i felt like as a teenager um watching him being eccentric and being very much like the devil may care attitude that he has i felt like it resonated very well with me especially as a person who was never really fit in being queer being you know an asian person in a white predominantly a predominantly white community and so I felt like he brought out that side of me like that what's possible and I felt like it has like it's something that I've always been enamored by and also because you know he dated one of my favorite pop stars Madonna back in the day so It's kind of wild, but also, like, I'm a huge Paul Canerico fan from the White Sox.

14:32 I've always felt like he was a classy guy. I mean, Chicago loves him, but people don't talk about him enough. I mean, he's such a classy act. I mean, the Game 2 World Series home run, the grandstand that he did was etched in a lot of people's memories. I have a lot of love for, like, right now I do have a lot of love for Caleb Williams. I'm, like, really rooting hard for him. Yeah. And Scottie Pippen was a guy that I have always loved as a player, but like we mentioned about Donovan McNabb, it's like his post career has been just hard to watch. seeing the personality that he's become from what other people have told me about him, it's really hard to, like, to really embrace him because he was such a lethal force for those six championships.

15:25 And, of course, Michael Jordan, I mean, also very highly fought, but, gosh, like, he was the epitome of, like, greatness. And... But it's also interesting because his relationship with Chicago practically has disappeared over the years and he doesn't really have a connection to it. Like one of his steakhouses has just closed. about two months ago, or a month ago, I believe. And then you have his house that he lived in, Deerfield, which has been, I don't know if it has been so, but it's been on the mark for at least 10 years. So he doesn't really have any ties to Chicago necessarily, and unfortunately not with the Bulls organization. So yeah, but you had a connection, or I wouldn't say a connection, but you had an encounter with Michael Jordan.

16:13 So I'm curious if you'd like to share that story. Yeah, so I work at Fox Sports and on the digital team, so I do a lot of podcasts for us, our talent, and for a while, many, I want to say seven or eight years ago, I was doing a basketball podcast with one of our talent, Chris Broussard. I was producing that, and we would go to the NBA All-Star Game every year. So we do interviews and shoot content and podcasts and all sorts of stuff. So one year we're gone, and it's down in... I think it's Charlotte. Yeah. And we're like, all right, let's try to find a party, right? Because NBA All-Star Weekend is a party.

16:54 So we find out. that there's two that Michael Jordan is having a birthday party, his 50th birthday. And we're Chris tells us he doesn't have tickets, but like this is the address. You should go see if you can get in. You know, OK. So we're like, great, let's try it. So we put our suits on because we feel like, hey, if we're wearing suits, maybe maybe we have a shot here. And we it was raining. So we get in the Uber, and for some reason, because of the rain, the Uber dropped us off in the VIP entrance. I don't know why. But because of the rain, as we got out of the car, and maybe they thought we were VIPs, they just kind of like rushed us out of the rain.

17:37 We get to the awning, the back area, and they're like, do you have your wristbands? And we're like, sure, give us the wristbands. And so they just gave us the wristbands. And then we're like, great, which way? This way? And we walk in, and then we look at each other like, holy crap, that worked. I can't believe it. Now we're at Michael Jordan's birthday party. And it was, it was incredible. It was at a, like a tequila or distillery type thing that he owned or something like that. I don't remember, but I mean, he had a cigar room. I mean, there was a Travis Scott concert there. There's every, every Jordan athlete imaginable was there, you know, like, cause it's, it's the goat's birthday party, his 50th.

18:19 So, so we have to go. that was 2013 i believe right it might have been yeah around the 50 yeah yeah yeah yeah that that sounds about right um and then we just um yeah so then all of a sudden like you you feel the energy change and the whole party looks over and in starts coming in michael jordan and he's walking down and it is like You know, they say certain people have just a certain aura to them and the whole room and they command the whole room. Absolutely with this man. Literally, like people like Charles Oakley are there, you know, like Russell West. Everyone's just like in awe of him.

18:59 Charles Oakley's still his bodyguard. basically yeah he's still big um so he starts walking in and he's he's dapping up people and my boss goes and bam daps them up and i'm like oh oh my gosh i gotta i gotta try right he he takes us up i go up like this to dab him up and then bam his security guard just boom fist palms me right in the chest just oh wow he said get out and i was like i'm so close so damn uh but my boss at the time uh justin just yeah he got to dab but we're like oh my god you dabbed up jordan ah yeah it was a fun night one of those nights where yeah just sometimes you just walk in like yeah like you belong and and hopefully no one says anything Yeah, I think it's really wild because Michael Jordan, like during his playing career, he was so accessible to the media.

19:52 Like the man would answer like questions at 20, 30 minutes long. Cause I used to listen to AM 1000 or ESPN 1000 now. And his interviews, I would like sit there and like listen to the radio as a kid, like listening to him just talk and very, very honest and very much breaking down what happened, what he didn't do, what the team needs to be doing. But, you know, ever since he stopped playing, like you know, He's become the Willy Wonka. He's become the... I can't remember that famous... Leonardo DiCaprio played him. I can't remember what movie it was. He was a... I'll have to remember what it is.

20:34 I think his last name is Hughes, I believe. Howard Hughes. I feel like he's been living such a reclusive existence. He kind of does. He kind of stayed out of the limelight. So it is very wild that he... ever puts himself in a public setting because he literally takes the oxygen out of a room. And he's the definition of it. A funny story is that several years ago, I saw Madonna at the Chicago Theater when she was doing her theater run, which was unheard of. She had always done arenas and stadiums. And she had everyone's cell phones locked up in a pouch. And so... At the end, I was in the audience.

21:16 I was right by the aisle. And I was about to fist bump her when she was walking past me. She's a very tiny woman, too. And I'm thinking, this is the queen of pop. This is a person who I've also listened to since I was young. And I was about to fist bump her, but her security card knocks my hand out. She was about to fist bump me. And then I look around. She's, like, right by the exit door. And she's like, good night, everyone, Chicago. And she exit out that way. And they, like, literally slam the door shut so she can just get out. I was like, and this was at 2 a.m. in the morning because she didn't start the show until midnight. I mean, which is, that's a whole other story.

21:57 But... But again, that was my close encounter. But I was able to meet Janet Jackson. I was able to shake hands with Grace Jones when she came by the audience. I'm like, okay, at least I got my little taste. So I'm not too upset. But that is kind of like so surreal to be in that kind of room when you, like, as a kid growing up, like you would never imagine to get into the sports and entertainment world. And then the people that you grew up watching idolizing and then here you are like this is your work and you're like wow i cannot believe i'm like in striking distance with people that i looked up to as a kid Yeah, yeah.

22:44 It can be a surreal experience, you know. It's an interesting mix because, you know, oftentimes, you know, like, one, in this industry, you have to be, you know, obviously, you have to be very professional and stuff, you know. And you have to be very focused. It's not like you can... you know, go all fan, like, and, and freak out being like, Oh, I know you have blah, blah. You know, like you have to, you can't do that. Uh, you can't ask for photos or anything like that. But what, what, what I find is actually like when you work with certain talent that has these relationships, You know, so like when you work closely with someone, like when I would work with Chris and stuff, you know, he he would be like, oh, it's just he's so he is at beyond level.

23:30 Like he'd casually be like, oh, yeah, I was talking to Magic last night and he thinks he's a name tropper. He's like, oh, yeah, like, you know, like, that's what it is. Like, that's literally who he talks to about basketball with. You know, he's at such a high level of of. uh this this industry um so it's things like that where you you kind of like realize you're like oh wait i'm like you're working with the best of the best you know and they're talking with the best of the best so yeah it's pretty interesting do me a favor if you see chris broussard next time tell him to stick to his productions for a change For his what? His predictions for a change. Oh, predictions. Yeah, yeah. Like, Jesus Christ. Hey, hey, the game's the game, Randy. The game's the game.

24:11 You talk about sports for three hours a day, you're going to miss a lot of those shots. Yeah, no. But yeah, but also, like, what can you share about your experience being in the sports entertainment industry and how has it evolved? Uh, from the time that you started to now, I mean, I know it's a very loaded question there, but yeah, no, that's a great question because, um, I mean, I see it, I see it so much, you know, I, I, we talk about it on my team. Like I've been on, I've been working on the digital team for 10 years now and think about just how far we are with, uh, what we consider the internet and social media from the last 10 years, you know, like I have to tell people I started before Tik TOK, you know, and now we're doing a ton of Tik TOK, you know, now everything wants to be vertical, you know, now we're doing live streams.

25:04 You couldn't do the ability that we had to do live streams, uh, years ago when I started. And now like it's so integrated in what we do as far as, you know, podcast podcast been around for a long time, but not so much video podcast. And we were some of the early adopters of that, like that Chris Broussard show was one of the early I was doing video podcast for basketball when other people weren't. You know, um, a lot of the stuff we're doing now for pregame shows, like you can see all the, you can see a first quarter of a game being streamed by a network. And that was, they would never have done that before.

25:45 You know, like for years, they, they were very strict about what kind of rights could be put out there. You know, everything had to be bootleg, but when you work for a big place, you can't, can't break the law. You know, you can't, you can't be stealing stuff. Um, So, yeah, it's just kind of like the whole industry has changed, you know, how people get their information, how people get their news. We're seeing it all the time. We're starting to see even more, you know, and it'll constantly change, you know, when the algorithms change, when the industries and the platform change and will change. Same thing with sports. Could you imagine growing up watching 96 Bulls and in the middle they were like, Charles Barkley just tweeted that Jordan's on fire.

26:28 You'd be like, what just happened? You couldn't do that. Now you can. Now you can have those things. You can have these polls. You can do all these things and stay up to date all through as technology grows. And we'll see what's next. You know what I mean? We don't know. You can't predict the future. Maybe in You know, another five years, TikTok is going to be only for your grandparents. And everyone's going to be like, oh, grandma's learning about. Yeah, exactly. Right. And then there's going to be a new Zip Zap app that is embedded in your eyeball. And that's what the kids do. And, you know, you'll make a skibbity joke and no one will know what that means.

27:11 And you'll be like, oh, no, you remember skibbity? Like, yeah. But that's what I love it. That's why I love it is because in the digital world, things change you can try new things you know one of my favorite things is just pitching dumb ideas and seeing if they'll stick you know and you're seeing just the industry change too like you know you're seeing x players uh building podcasts and become massive hits. And now they have a whole business and an industry based on their one show. You know, we've seen, uh, a show grow and then the other businesses out of that.

27:52 And now they have a network. Then they're their own studio, you know? So, so that stuff excites me too. Cause I think for the independent creators, uh, You know, you can really actually the gatekeeping has gone away in a lot of ways. I mean, it's very hard. I mean, it's extra hard now because the market's so saturated. But at the same time, if you have a popular podcast or popular web series or popular Patreon or blog, you know, you can really you can make a living out of it. So it's really exciting. Yeah. And also you are a two time Emmy Award winner as a producer. How has that changed you? and your own professional ambitions and people's perception of your work.

28:34 Ooh, I don't know. I mean, okay. Look, I got to keep it real. I like to say, yes, yes, I'm a two-time Emmy award-winning producer, but it's the same way that, like, the backup kicker gets an Emmy. You know, like, I've been very fortunate to be part of teams that did great things, teams that did the World Cup, teams that work with Cosm for the latest one we won – so i am not the reason why we won an emmy you probably could get rid of me and no one would notice um but i'm very honored to be a part of a team that that deserved one you know so um as far as so as far as what that means for me i mean i think it it frankly it sounds really good um and it does i think you know can kind of cut through there's so many people in this industry but if if If you sometimes get these accolades, it can get your foot in the door.

29:35 If you're reaching out to someone to collaborate or, hey, I wrote the script. It can kind of help that way. where you're like, hey, I'm not just a random guy doing videos. I'm actually a professional and, you know, I've been able to accomplish a couple of things. Do you want to have a conversation? Let me tell you about my new project. I think that helps. I think that helped for above the clouds for sure. Yeah. And I was also wondering how has it helped you like unlock the other opportunities, the things that you were working on. And I know I want to definitely talk about above the clouds, but I'm curious in like what it has led to in terms of of collaborations as far as collaborations yeah i would say in the in the outside world because also too like you know in the sports emmy world like again like i won an emmy but so did an you know the hundred people that worked on the world cup so frankly you know it's almost a joke too is like you can be really bad to have a couple emmys You could actually be like, think about, you know what I mean?

30:39 Like you could be like, like there's really terrible people with, with Superbowl rings. You know, there's the guy that is like the coach will be like, I'll never put you in the game. You know, like, so sometimes they'll see someone, Oh, I won all these Emmys. I'm like, yeah, but. you actually stink at your job you know you're just you're just the backup kicker you know like you're probably no offense to jeremy lynn on that one yeah exactly so like but so sometimes you know so sometimes that could happen too but i think i think it helps get you in the door and i think my my body of work i think speaks for itself so So you recently released your debut film, Above the Clouds, which you wrote and directed. Congratulations.

31:19 Thank you. The movie, in a way, is very connected to your life experience, specifically in the passing of your father and navigating your own mixed Thai-American identity. What did you want to convey in this film? What were you hoping for as a takeaway when you created this film? Oh, man, there's probably a lot of things. But for me, it was really like we were at a point, I think, in time and society, especially in Asian American culture where, you know, things weren't good. You know, we were seeing a lot of negativity towards us, you know, especially around the time of COVID.

32:01 And I think, too, in Hollywood and in cinema, you know, my goal is, like, I just want to see more of our faces on the screen. And I think there's two ways you can do it. You can ask for permission or you can take it. And I'm not good at asking for permission, you know? I don't have those connections. I don't have the ability to walk into a studio and say, hey, I'm blah, blah, blah, my... You know me from my mom and dad, those rich people, you know. And I think there's a lot of value in asking for permission and wanting to see more of our faces on screen.

32:45 I think that does help. You know, I think... Some of these big Asian American films that came out are very impactful. Crazy Rich Asians was great, you know, and that's but that's one story. Again, that's a certain subset of rich Asians. I didn't grow up like that. So who's going to be able to tell my story? No one, you know, and if I do this work and I make this movie, then we'll have accomplished what we set out to do. You know, so like now there is a movie. There is 90 minutes of, you know, of a half-tie guy who meets a Korean girl and they spend the day together and they get to know each other and they get to share about their lives and talk about what matters to them and learn everything.

33:30 you know the ups and downs of what they're going through and and uh you know hopefully make people laugh uh make people cry a little it is a sad story um but yeah it's just really i mean honestly it's just based off my true life and i try to keep it as real as possible in what way has that film been helpful in exploring your own asian specifically your own mixed thai identity you know the um that's a great question i would say for sure because like definitely while writing the film you know like i was trying to figure out this nice you know you're always trying to figure out a balance of what story you're telling and why um and a lot of the connective tissues so this movie is a lot you know for people who like the movies like you know before sunset or past lives.

34:20 You know, it's a lot of two people, a guy and girl talking, you know, and having conversations about life. So for me, it was like, okay, well, what are those conversations going to be? And that's why I really, while writing the film, I was like, no, I got to make it, I got to make it like, unapologetically Asian is what I said. That was, that was the term I came up with writing it. So these conversations aren't going to be, um, they're going to be rooted in our stories. You know, when we talk about, um, you know, there's one scene where it's like the, uh, the two characters are, have grown up with different subsets of parents, right? One traditional Korean parents, one Thai parents. So having, you know, I think sometimes as Asian Americans, we're all lumped in as one thing, right?

35:07 Like, like, but it's like, and you know, this, we are very different, you know? So having a conversation of one parent, having Korean parents and how they were raised is going to be different than how having Thai parents. And, you know, this character is based off a lot of my wife, she's Korean and her family. So we're able to kind of explore our differences, um, and try to bring a little nuance into the discussion about Asian Americans. What was the journey like as an indie filmmaker to take on this project and developing it? Because filmmaking is an area that I'm not very familiar with, but I will say that what I can observe is that it's a very daunting process.

35:56 to try to get everything set up, getting the funding, getting the sponsorships, getting everything that you need to be able to get this into fruition. So how long did it take for you to get Above the Clouds up and running? And what was it like trying to find casting and trying to get the film put together? Yeah, I mean, it took 13 years to get it going. Wow. So my dad died, yeah, well, now 15 years ago. So the story is really based off a true story of a few months after my dad passed away, I came back to L.A., and I went to a coffee shop, and I met this stranger.

36:42 And then we spent the whole day together. And that turned into a short film. And then for 13 years, I was trying to convert the short film into a feature-length film. And it was very difficult. And it became this kind of trap. Your whole life, you want to be a feature film director, and you know you want to make this movie, but then you're not accomplishing it. So it becomes this burden on you. And this thing that used to be your passion is now your burden. And so at one point I literally had to quit. I had to like finally say, put this down and be like, hey, you know, like you got this sports job. It's good.

37:22 you know, go for it. You know, don't for a while, it was like, I'm doing this sports thing. I'm doing these other jobs, but I'm really, I'm a movie maker, you know, but I wasn't actually doing it. So I needed to reset where I was at. That's when I got a little more focused in sports. That's when we started winning awards and doing projects I was really proud of. And then after a while that too, now, now you're hungry again, you know, you had to be re motivated, you know, you have to sometimes walk away from, a project, uh, to, to, to, uh, and you, you know, to, to go back into, to loving it. And so that's what I did, you know? And then, um, yeah.

38:02 And, and I, I love telling this story, but I was shooting a short film for a friend and our other friend was shooting the other half and he, um, was like, oh, who's shooting the other half? And he goes, oh, John Hill is. And he goes, oh, does John Hill still make stuff? And I was like, like, it was the Jordan meme. I was like, oh, and I took that personally, you know? And I was like, oh, oh, you guys forgot. You know, like I'm out doing my sports thing, which is great. I'm doing really well being successful in this industry. But I've kind of paused on on the comedy feature film side of my life. I was like, oh, I think people forgot about me. So I had to remind them.

38:43 And so then from right there, that was like the moment where I was like, all right, I have I'm back. I'm back. You know, I got to I got to make this film. Um, but yeah, it's challenging. You have to, you know, you have to raise tens of thousands of dollars. You got to convince complete strangers to, to join you. Um, you know, so you write the script and then the first person, you know, you send it out to a couple of trusted people and then you build a producing team and you get a casting director. And, uh, the first, uh, person we cast it was kind Kim, uh, whose stars is Danny in the film. She's an incredible, incredible actress she's so good um you just fall in love with her in the movie she's on nbc's um saint dennis medical she's and cocaine bear she's a star so she read the script we met with her and we casted her instantly and then yeah that's like the first step and then you start meeting more people and then you know eventually we found chris lobity and who plays Jay in the film, another incredible actor.

39:44 He's been in so many things, and he really stole the show. And then once you kind of have that, then you kind of have to fill in the little pieces. You have to find this location. Oh, this location bailed. Okay, let's find this. And then you're just battling. Every day you're just... trying to be prepared, being underprepared, underfunded, uh, just winging a prayer, hoping to get it through. But if you build the right team and it was a lot of people like, um, from my day one, homies, you know, Dan research, Sean cook, where my producers, some of the first people I met 18 years ago when I moved to LA, Nate Cornette, I went to college with, he's been my cinematographer my whole life.

40:27 You know, so you build enough people that believe in you and believe in the project. And then, yeah, you just kind of start walking forward and hopefully you eventually hit the finish line. Do you have I'm actually curious if who were your biggest financial backers of this film? Like, who do you feel like was the biggest supporters of of of getting this film, getting this film jumpstarted? Oh, man. So we did a kick – I would say the biggest supporter is my wife. I'm not talking financial. Just like as someone who is like, you need to make this movie. I've seen you for all these years want to make this movie.

41:09 I've seen you have to quit. I've seen you have to – pick it back up with, with passion, you know? And she just was like so much like knowing that I wouldn't be happy until I did this movie. So she was my number one supporter from day one, always supportive. Um, she's the best. Uh, And then financially, yeah, it was, you know, we raised, um, about $42,000 on a Kickstarter. So really the community came through and you'd be surprised, man, there's days I'd get a donation, just start crying. You know, I gotta, like, I would get one person. She, um, I went to high school with her, my good friend, Chrissy.

41:52 Her dad was my, uh, sixth grade teacher. He was my favorite teacher. And, uh, he, he too passed away. And she was like, listen, I read your Kickstarter, all this stuff. I've not once touched the inheritance my dad left us, but I want you to have money from it. And she got a very big generous check. And she was like, I know my dad would believe in you. This is my sixth grade teacher. For her to say, I know my dad would want me to spend this money on you doing this project. Like, how do you not wake up And try, you know, so like having people like that, having other friends, lifetime friends come in on the private side and give really big checks and being like, yo, man, I know I'm not going to see this money again.

42:45 Like, go make this movie, dude. Like, like, I believe in you. Just like I'm fortunate to have done a different career. You know, you're I promise you, anyone listening, your independent filmmaking friends probably don't have a ton of money. And if you're a successful lawyer banker private equity whatever you're doing uh and you you want to support the arts find those people man because because you know we we can all contribute to projects in the best way we can you know whether it's making the project being the writer director uh whether it's being the financier or whether it's just being the cheerleader i had a lot of people who i talked to I always say you need rocket boosters.

43:28 When you're creative and you have a project and you want to do something or you want to do that, go hang out with that friend that makes you feel great about yourself. I would tell certain people like, hey, guys, I'm doing the movie. And they would just gas me up and be like, dude, I know you're going to do a great job. Because at that point, I needed that. You know what I mean? Like sometimes you need a pick me up. You need that friend that's going to like you can be going through a miserable time, but they're the one person that can make you laugh about anything. You know, they're the one that's going to be like, you know, would say, hey, John, I know you've been wanting to do this forever. Like, I believe in you, man. It's going to be sick. Like, just do your thing. You know, so you need to find those rocket boosters in your life and then hit them up when you need them.

44:10 You know, and that's what friends do. what has the feedback been or your connection with the asian american asian diaspora communities um in regards to this film like how has how how has your relationship in a way been um been deepened or been tapped into as a result of making this film yeah that's uh So, so many ways, man. I mean, I can tell you a couple examples of making the film that I'll talk about it post film, but I remember we were auditioning and you're just watching hundreds of tapes, right? And I wish I wrote down this guy's name.

44:53 I really do. Cause I gotta, I gotta send him something, but this guy, he comes to audition and it's all taped, you know, like you're, you're literally on a website where people email their audition tape And this guy looks at, you know, and he goes, hey, man. Hey, I just wanted to, because, and I would always send the script out. I'm like, if someone wants to read the whole script, I would always send it to him because I believe in transparency. And he says, yo, I'm just, I'm just really happy you're making this movie, man. Like I read the script. I don't even care. This character you wrote, this character is a dude. I'm tired of auditioning for some Kung Fu shit.

45:33 Mm-hmm. this is just a real dude and i was like oh wow like you know like i didn't even think of it from that side like if people are so if you're auditioning all the time and all and you're asian-american male and all you're seeing is some kung fu stuff or some some trope or some kind of caricature to have someone read something that i wrote and say like yo thank you Like like they're like for him to know that, like there's people out there trying to change the narrative, you know, so that was really special that that hit me when I needed to be hit like that, you know, because that gave me this motivation of like, oh, damn, like like maybe there is something to this, you know, maybe, you know, you have theories about what you're doing, but to hear it from other people and saying, you know, like, hey, like, go at it.

46:25 Like, thank you, man. Like that means a lot. um and just having conversations with my cast too you know having people see it and then be like wow like look at this like like we're two asian-american stars doing this thing and the movie's about us talking about us that's that's kind of rare you know what i mean um and then since yeah man we had our best i would say our best screenings were at um Asian American film festivals. We had one in Silicon Valley. We had one disorient up in a Eugene, Oregon, Philadelphia, Asian American fast. Like, and that really to me is, is have been my favorite because you're watching.

47:06 And the question and answer is so good because they're picking up on the little things, you know, they're the ones being like, Hey, I actually do know three J Kims and they're all brothers. You know, like my joke is exactly like, Hey, I know I have a mom exactly like you. Danny's mom in the movie, you know, we have this awkward thing, you know, so those have been great. Cause then you also get to meet with other Asian American filmmakers and get to talk about the struggles and what you're going through and learn the business. And just seeing other great talents too, you know, like. So not only do you get to play at these festivals and have a Q&A, but, you know, you spend the day there and you're watching, man, you watch like 20 Asian American short films and you're like, oh, that actor is great.

47:50 I want to I got to learn about them. You know, oh, this this is beautiful. Who's their cinematographer? OK, I got to meet them because what am I going to do in the future? You know, no better way than to do that. And. Yeah, too. And just like, yeah, showing up. It's great. I love I love playing the film and talking about it, man. You know. And how did you feel about your own multiracial identity as a young adult? And because I know that growing up being multiracial, there's a lot of different like perceptions about who you are and where your belonging is. And also I know that film in a way like brings that up, but I'm curious to know how did you feel about it growing up and how has it changed to where you are now?

48:36 Yeah, that's, that's, you know, this one's really interesting and I've started, you know, I definitely, I never felt like, uh, I, like, I know there's this, this, a lot of people that are mixed race will have this, uh, I guess. I don't know the best way to say it. They made me grow up confused, right? They don't like, and I understand like, which side do I fit in on? You know, am I, am I this? Am I that? Am I, you know, I've heard people say like, oh, I'm not Asian enough for my Asian friends. I'm not white enough for my white friends, things like that. To be honest, I never really felt that. I, I, I didn't, you know, I have always just felt Asian, you know, like I, I, my, like, If anyone meets my mom, she's like, we're Thai.

49:27 We like sit on the floor to eat. You know, we have all like the house smells like Thai food. Like it is weird. No one, no one has ever. And we have to remember, I grew up in Philadelphia in the 90s. Right. There was no polite. You just walk into a place and they'll just look at you and say, what are you? The racism in the 80s and 90s is a whole other level of what we're doing today. I've never once been mistaken for being Irish. I've never been able to just sneak in into the white world and have... be open arms and be like, oh yeah, I think that's, you know, I think John's Scottish.

50:09 No, like they, I've always, they're just like, what are you, you know? And so like when you grow up with a mom that, you know, who barely speaks English, you know, like you, you can't not be that. You can't forget that, you know? So I've always known, you know, and I was, yeah. So I never really even felt like, that, you know, that split side, you know what I mean? And growing up, my brother and all his friends were Asian and mixed race or, you know, we were very diverse crew. So we always were, I was just knew I was on the outside of it, you know?

50:52 So I never felt like that a couple of times. Like, like I've, there's definitely a lot, like I would say now what's interesting is having married my wife and her family. Both her family are, you know, came over from Korea. So what I've learned now is that there's certain things that they didn't do that I did, some of the American things. Right. Like a perfect example, like Thanksgiving's coming up. When I first met her, I cooked Thanksgiving for the whole family, like all the extended uncles and Koreans. My goodness. And they they didn't grow up with the Thanksgiving that I grew up with, you know, because I would sometimes go to my my grandparents house in upstate New York and we'd have a big Thanksgiving, you know, the white side of the family.

51:40 So making a turkey for them, making the cramp, you know, the stuff that I would say are traditional American kind of, you know, things. I definitely had that growing up, you know. But no, I never really had. I've been one thing about me is I'm very comfortable in my skin and I don't let outsiders dictate who I am. And I know it happens to a lot of people, you know, and I know I've had because I've had these conversations with people where they feel like I don't know what group I belong in. And, you know, I and to me, it's like I belong in the group that I'm in. You know, and you're not going to tell me other ways.

52:22 You know, like you can try. You can try to say I'm something I'm not. You can try to diss me and say, oh, well, you're only this or you're only that or whatever. And I'm like, cool, dude. Like, I just don't care about your opinion. Yeah, I am me. And that's who I love. And this is, you know, flaws and all, you know, like, feel free to judge me. I don't care. I say this all the time. Look, you can say. I can't write a movie. You could say, I can't direct a movie. I can't edit a movie. I can't make a movie. I don't know what I'm doing. You can, you can say all that. And that's your opinion, man. I don't care. But what you can't say is I didn't try. All right. Like I wanted something. And I wanted to tell a story about Asian Americans here.

53:05 One about loss. What about grieving? And what about healing as a community? And I tried. I tried my best, man. And I hope people like it. But that's all we can do. Yeah. I also want to say that, to your point, there's no one... way to be Thai there's no one way to be Asian I mean this is something I think about a lot as both Vietnamese and Cambodian I mean I have definitely heard a lot of people that are gatekeeping the cultures and you know sometimes I think because of where we are at in our age in our journey like back in my 20s I would have faltered I would have felt very frazzled by it I mean I think the first time I went to Vietnam it was very challenging for me because I didn't speak Vietnamese very well at all and I got lectured by pretty much like everyone in Saigon to the family village and that was something that I could not erase and then when I joined the Cambodian Museum Board in Chicago then I think that's kind of where it started to like I started to reclaim that and I realized that I don't have to feel like any of my identities are weaponizing me.

54:21 They're not a burden to me. How can I make this an asset for me? How can I make it work for me? So I think what I've learned over the years is there's a million ways to be such and such. And I think that's what's so unique and so powerful about these stories because it's not one linear experience. It's not one you know, one size fits all umbrella. It's a multitude of very different layers from the experiences. And we never judge someone the other way too, right? You know, like you never go, like if someone puts, you know, like...

55:03 catch up on their steak. No one questions if they're an American or not. You know what I mean? I grew up in America. If you ask me questions about how the government works, I'd be like, I don't know. You know what I mean? If you ask me a history question, I'd be like, I don't know. I went to public school. How am I supposed to... If I had to name every president from George Washington on, I don't know, probably. I could. You could? You could. Okay. I could actually, yes. I couldn't. So things like that where it's like we don't get judged for all these other things. But for some reason, like you said, there wants to be someone that's gatekeeping saying a certain thing or making you feel that way. And it's natural. It's totally natural. And like I said, I'm saying this now as I'm comfortable in my skin.

55:46 And I promise you, there was probably times where I wasn't, you know, or like you said, you know, like I speak very little Thai and I go back and sometimes, yeah, you're like, ah, sorry. Like, I don't know. Like, my mom didn't teach me Thai as a kid. Like, I don't, you know, so there are moments like that, of course, where you you wish you were better, but like, I also, I also wish I could do 200 pushups and had a six pack. You know what I mean? Like, I wish my hair was long, wasn't thinning in the back, you know, like I wish I was, there's so many things that we could talk about where I wish I was better at, you know? And I think sometimes too, we have to give ourselves grace, you know?

56:30 And I think mixed race people in particular. And I think that's the part why, Some people will struggle with it because they don't feel they're good enough or they're not enough of a certain thing, but you have to really look at the other side. You are who you are. You didn't get to choose your parents. You didn't get to choose this, and there's no shame in that. You know what I mean? I would... you know i'm very lucky my dad was a great guy like good dude you know so i'm not going to be shamed of him or or you know or the fact that we end up my mom moving to america as versus where we would have grown up in thailand you know that's that's out of my control so you just have to be like you know like okay yeah i'm not full-time but i also didn't murder anyone like there's someone in thailand that probably murdered a bunch of people like don't like what are we judging each other for you know like we're good yeah i i went to vietnam and cambodia recently and i talked about this in my previous episodes like last like actually a year ago now uh around december and like I went there because I wanted to feel like I need to do this on my own.

57:48 I wanted to like reclaim something that I felt like was taken from me in a way, or at least try to reconcile with a lot of my own identity issues growing up. And I was like, you know, I feel like I need closure on that. i felt a lot of power from it because i at least for the first time i didn't feel like i was getting judged harshly um for not being able to speak the languages and and also like for me it was allowing me to deepen my understanding of my relationship with both the homeland and ever since i left or ever since i came back this past year i've been like been really wanting to tap more into my identities more and um i started taking vietnamese lessons and i also did so with the expectation of i'm not gonna be a fluent speaker and i'm okay with it yeah and i think there's something that's very powerful when you connect with other vietnamese folks and i've been like texting in vietnamese more now it's like like if you had asked me it's like six months ago could i say something in a sentence in vietnamese i would have laughed at you But it's kind of like crazy how a trip like that can really change the trajectory in your own direction.

59:04 And I'm very curious about your own relationship with Thailand, where your mom is living now, and what does that look like for you when you have visited? Yeah, man. And I just want to say I'm happy to hear that for you, Randy. I really am, man. Like I like it's such a great journey. You know, our journeys are our journeys, our journeys, man. Like success isn't linear. You know, identity isn't linear. All these things are not linear. You know what I mean? And as we grow older, we will change and we'll see it differently. And I pretty much, I feel like kind of the same journey with you. You know, like growing up, I went to Thailand a lot. You know, first time I went, I was maybe 15 or so.

59:46 And this was different. You know, I went to my mom's village and they didn't have hot water. My first time to take a bath, we literally started a fire, put a pot of water on it, and that's how I had to heat it up. The bathroom was a hole in the ground, no joke. My mom grew up without electricity. When my mom and dad got married, my dad rented a generator. So that they could have lights for a celebration. That's how poor she grew up. You know, she's really out there. And yeah, when I first went back, it was really eyeopening for me. Every person, all my cousins were wearing my old clothes.

1:00:27 We donate, we would, my mom would go back to see her mother when she was alive and bring suitcases full of clothes for the, for the village, just so they had, you know, actual clothes. Hmm. So and then my cousins out there, you know, got to meet them, got to really understand them. And they were closer to my age. So, yeah, I've always connected there. What's been fun now, though, over over the times I've been now, I've been maybe, I don't know, 10 or 12 times. We got married there. We had a Thai wedding. Now I'm starting to enjoy places like Bangkok more. You know, because as a kid, it's funny how you learn about, you know, your homeland through the eyes of your parents, you know.

1:01:17 So when I would go to Thailand with my mom, she hated Bangkok. Because from someone who's Isan out in the jungle, the city's scary. Bangkok's too scary for her. So I kind of grew up, we would go to Bangkok, but we would only go to a cousin's house and we'd stay there and we wouldn't explore, maybe go to a temple kind of thing. Definitely no nightlife, you know, none of that stuff. And then now that I'm older, when we go, me and my wife go, we love Bangkok. Now, you know, We can go and it's very affordable.

1:01:58 There's so many great restaurants and places to go to. The museum there is amazing, the Contemporary Art Museum. So now I really look forward to going to Bangkok and exploring the city as an adult. And now that I have a job, a little more money to spend than when I was 15. So I think that's changed a lot too because the city has changed a lot. And what I enjoy in travel has changed a lot. and like really good food you know like like what's funny is we go and we eat a lot of uh really good sushi places because a lot of the people from uh people from tokyo chefs from tokyo where it's too expensive to live in japan will start uh a makase in in bangkok and still get the same fish Wow.

1:02:46 Because it's not far. You know, it's hard to get the fish out here in America because you got to go all the way from Japan. But if you're living in Thailand or any other Southeast Asian country, you know, the markets for the Japanese fish right there. So, yeah, I kind of like... I love it more and more. And I want to keep exploring. We were just back because my mom was sick for a little bit. She's better now. But then we so we usually go back and then go to her village where there isn't as much to do. But even this trip when she was in the hospital, we were we were in a bigger city and we got to explore that a little bit. So I'm still exploring.

1:03:28 I'm still, you know, there's so much more I want to see and do out there. and uh hopefully i get to yeah you're gonna have to tell me some travel tips too because i mean i haven't been in thailand yet but um but i think like you like i felt like i was in love with cambodian vietnam like immediately it's like god i need to come back again i don't know when yet yeah we very soon and yeah and we just experience the world differently you know like like you said like your trip now you're a different person than the first time you went you know i mean like completely so yeah you're gonna explore differently you know it's just and and i think yeah for some of us a lot of us um And I know this because I've talked to other agents about this, like when you go as a kid, you know, it's a whole new world and you're and you're scared of it and you don't know what it is and you're following your parents and they have their things, you know, like, you know, just just like, again, everything's like if you're from a smart small town in Arkansas, You know, you're, oh my God, Randy lives in Chicago.

1:04:30 It's a war zone. Oh, Portland, Portland. They're, they're getting shot every day. No, it's a dude in a frog costume. Like it's not like that, you know? So as you, you know what I mean? So like your, your opinion of these places are shaped off the people who, who, who shaped those, but as you grow and then you can, you can see it differently is my point. Absolutely. And which is why I love traveling. I'm going to go to Columbia at the end of this year. I haven't been to South America yet. So I'm excited to explore the possibilities. And when we talk about your father and the loss of your father the past 15 years, what has navigating grief been like in the years since his passing because like I say this because um my brother passed away earlier this year and so I feel like I'm going into now the holidays for the first time and then um his one year got the anniversary in January and then his birthday after that in February so it's like so I feel like I'm kind of bracing myself for it but I'm curious to know what has the relationship been like for you with your relationship with grief uh with your father Yeah, man.

1:05:42 And I'm really sorry to hear about your brother. You know, I tell people this, you know, the first year is the hardest. The first year is absolutely the hardest because like you just said, it's all the anniversaries. You know, it's going to be the first, like you said, the first Thanksgiving without them, the first Christmas without them, the first birthday, the first time. Oh, oh, the, you know, oh, the Bears made the playoffs. Who should I? Those are the hard ones. Those are the hard ones. I tell this story too. I thought I was doing a good job handling it. That's what a lot of the movie is about. You think you're doing a good job handling a situation, but you don't really see the millions of cracks that have been building up inside of you.

1:06:30 I remember one day, it was maybe six months after my dad passed, and I thought I was doing well. I go to Best Buy to buy a hard drive. And there's two different hard drives. And I was like, oh, which one should I buy? And I was like, oh, I'll just call my, you know, because my dad was a computer guy. And I was like, oh. oh, I can't anymore. And I just started crying inside Best Buy. And leading up to that, I thought I was pretty good. I don't even think I really cried too much. And then you're just like, so you'll hit those moments too, I tell people. It'll be the most random thing. You'll find an old photo, you'll do this, or something will happen.

1:07:14 And those will be the hard times. But those are also when the angels come out too, you know, you'll find an old video of them. I found some old videos of my dad and I was like, I wasn't even sure I'd ever hear his voice. You know, um, you find an old photo or you run into an old friend and stuff like that. Um, So, yeah, the first year is definitely the hardest. And I tell people this, too, and I said in the movie, I don't have any good advice. There's nothing I can say that's going to make someone truly feel better about it. Right, right. But what I do say is it does get better.

1:07:54 It does get better because eventually you will adapt to the new reality, the new world. You find ways to cope. You find ways to cherish and memorialize and memorialize and, you know. live a different the the new life you know um and it's not easy it never goes away but you just you know you eventually just kind of You just kind of get to it. And too, over time, too, a lot of time, I think, too, you just kind of forget stuff, to be honest with you.

1:08:38 After 15 years, there's been times where I'm like, text my brother, my brother texts me, he's like, yo, you know, it's the anniversary of dad's death. I'm like, oh, crap, is it? Because you just... 15 years, you just forget stuff, man. You know, so you never forget what they mean to you. You never forget the feelings you have. But like some of these little things, like you said, like going into Thanksgiving, I'm not like, oh, this is the 15th Thanksgiving without. No, you're just like. Yeah. It's just another Thanksgiving, you know? Yeah. But like, you know, I say success isn't linear. Healing isn't linear. Pain isn't linear. You know, grieving isn't linear. None of this is. We're going to have our ups and downs, you know, and different things are going to hit you when you don't expect it.

1:09:24 Absolutely. Absolutely. And the good times too, man, there's going to be, there's going to be a time where you're doing something else and, you know, Like your, your angels don't go away. They show up when you need them. You know what I mean? Like you're going to be watching a game and there's going to be, you're going to have a memory and you're going to feel them with you. You know, you're going to be eating that meal. You're going to be having a joke. Someone's going to be doing something funny and you're going to be like, you don't even say like, I know my dad would be laughing with me. You just know your dad's laughing. Yes. You know, your dad's with you. You know, your brother's with you. You know what I mean? So, it stinks man i it's like i don't know what else to tell me i'm not gonna lie like it hurts it's gonna hurt forever but it's gonna hurt a little less as as you go forward you know yeah but you'll be surprised with how many times it does it also does feel really good yeah because that's something that i've been thinking about too i think the first time well like i think like three weeks you know prior to his funeral like i was probably more okay weirdly okay and you know even at during the funeral um my his twin brother who's very stoic got emotional my dad who doesn't get emotional got emotional my mom and i we weren't which surprised both which surprised everyone it surprised me i'm like but it wasn't until after i got back then then things really started to become very difficult

1:10:55 and very challenging. I couldn't go anywhere without being reminded. But I think one moment when I was at a coffee shop and I was doing my Vietnamese lessons online with a tutor, and then the song, The Only Living Boy in New York by Simon Garfunkel, specifically Paul Simon, comes on that is actually my brothers and i favorite song growing up and so that comes on i was fighting back tears like as he was as my vietnamese teacher was like telling me he's like okay you gotta say this can you repeat this and i'm like trying to code it together trying not to cry in front of him in front of like people at the coffee shop but those were moments and i think like very recently i um went to uh well my brother just got his twin brother just got married and so they didn't elope in bigster california the photos were breathtakingly beautiful and when i saw the photos i just broke down i was like god i can't talk to andy about this and like so he's this i think that was like the first time it really started to hit me he's like yeah he won't be there for those moments where like yeah can't do that anymore but i think as to your point like I think, I don't know if it necessarily means getting easier, but you learn how to evolve with it.

1:12:09 You learn how to adjust and make accommodations for grief along the way. So I think that's kind of the way I'm having to learn it. So yeah, I know that this is going to be, this is still very much a new experience. And I know that we're at the age where people in our lives are dying expectedly and unexpectedly. And I think that's something that's very much at the forefront of my head. Like how do I, you know, you know, think about the people that have been, that have passed on and what do they mean to me? How do I honor that? So, yeah, I really appreciate you, you know, sharing your story on that. And what projects do you have going forward?

1:12:50 What things are you looking to do for 2026? wow i got a couple ones well i think one of the big things um for me work-wise is the u.s uh the world cup coming to the to the americas so i'm definitely so it's on fox this year so so i'm going to be doing a lot that's going to be for people don't know it's going to be probably the largest most watched sporting event in the history of the world So the World Cup is so massive, and now they expanded it to, I think, 48 teams. So it's going to be the largest, and it's in Canada, America, and Mexico.

1:13:30 So it's on our home soil, and that's going to be crazy. That's going to be 40 straight days of just soccer going nuts. And I've covered a couple World Cups before, but this one, being at home, is going to be really, really special. Stupid question. Where in America... Oh, they're going to be in LA, Dallas, San Francisco, New York, I think Chicago. I think Miami. I don't have the list in front of me, but yeah, it's going to be massive. So that'll be... is kind of what a lot of my everyday life is about is preparing for this, this thing. Um, but on a personal level, yeah, there's, um, there's a couple of projects I've been working on, um, that I'm developing as far as the next feature film that I want to do.

1:14:21 There's a fun, stupid short film I want to do about identity and food. Uh, and I might try to sneak that in there. Um, But really just getting this movie out there, you know, too. I'll just keep going, you know, and I appreciate you inviting me on this pod to talk about it because, yeah, you know, trying to get people – the more people who see this movie, the more likely I'll be able to get more funding for the next movie. So it's kind of this weird balance of you have to think about what's next, but you can't forget where you're at now, you know, so – Yeah, if we can get a bunch of people to buy it on Amazon streaming, then maybe we can build a base to, you know, make the next movie.

1:15:01 So, yeah. And keep telling our stories. Yeah, which brings me to that question, which he just answered is like, where can people find Above the Clouds? Where is it available? so yeah, we're streaming. So, uh, the best place, um, is Amazon prime. Uh, that's just like the way the distribution online distribution works. If you rent the movie, I make the most money or if you buy it, you make the most money. Uh, if money is an issue right now for you, uh, or anyone listening, we're also free on to be, uh, with ads, uh, same thing with Roku and, um, also our YouTube, uh, our distributor has a massive um youtube channel um so it is available for free you got to watch a couple commercials or you know if you're fortunate enough um and want to support the film uh you can buy or rent on amazon streaming and just go to above the clouds film.com uh there's a big link right there um Yeah.

1:16:01 Yeah. And I hope people get a chance of watching it. And, um, you know, I think too, like for anyone who's, who's lost someone, you know, I don't want to spoil the ending, but on when I was in the hospital with my dad, the last time I saw him, you know, I, you know, I feel it. I, I saw a miracle. You know, and like I said, like we don't you know, we we say we lose people, but really they're always with us. You know, angels angels show up when you need them. And that's what the ending of this movie is all about. You know, it's the last time I was physically with my dad, but not the last time I was with him, I would say. So, yeah. And and also it's a comedy.

1:16:43 It'll make you laugh because I think that's the best way through pain is often through laughter, you know. Yeah. As we wrap up, I have one last question. So what would you tell your younger self 15 years ago if you went back in time? What would you tell that person? Oh, man. Besides buy Bitcoin. You said 15 year old John? Oh, 15 years ago. Oh, 15 years ago. Yes. I'm so old. That's not even that long. I was like, I think I was still, I was like, you were still in your twenties.

1:17:25 I was like, I'm the same age as you. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I don't know. I would say that I would say, Hey, there's going to be this, uh, there's going to be, you're going to get this job at this fashion company and there's going to be this cute Korean girl. uh don't mess it up buddy don't mess it up if you can if you can stick around you'll and uh she says yes you'll you'll have a good life that's what i would tell my myself 15 years ago don't don't mess it up buddy awesome and awesome and so i want to say thank you so much for being on my show i hope that everyone gets to follow above the clouds and uh or at least see the movie Above the Clouds and support that film and also support your fellow indie films as well.

1:18:08 So yeah, thank you so much for really being on my show, John. Thank you, Randy. I love it. Appreciate you, brother.