Cameron McCloud from Cure for Paranoia: Tiny Desk, Mental Health, and the Art of Thriving

0:00 Welcome to the Bunda Me Chronicles Podcast. My name is Randy Kim and I am so excited to have this next guest on. His name is Cameron McLeod from Cure for Paranoia. So from the bio it says, Born on a Doomsday Road Trip, Dallas Collective, Cure for Paranoia. Bánh Bánh Bánh Bánh Bánh And Electric Live says they are the perfect dose from the mind of Cameron MacLeod Crown Dallas Hip Hop Group of the Year 2025 and the Dallas Observer and Entertainment Awards The collective has also secured back-to-back Song of the Year honors with Love Again in 2025 and from Texas in 2024.

0:48 So I want to say thank you so much for being on my show. I know that you've had a very hectic road trip recently with your tour. And how are you doing to start out this year now that we're into May? Man, now we're like kind of getting ready to go into the summer as far as summer is going to be like a big travel time. Like next month, Technically in June, I'm doing South by Southwest in London. That's going to be my first time ever in London in my life. And then I've got some stuff lined up at the end of July out in Europe as well, like a couple festivals. And then other than that, we've got like spot dates that we're doing throughout the summer.

1:32 We are waiting to hear back from Tiny Desk. This is actually our this has been our fourth year being in the finals. And I don't know we're just gonna see if they're gonna keep playing with us or not because they said in their review of us recently about our submission Bobby Carter said himself he said they are the creme de la creme and I'm like if you can't win the Tiny Dust competition being a creme de la creme what can you what can you do what can you do I was just gonna say because I mean not not um not everything has to be a victorious you know um a victorious um conquer of yours like if you don't win Tiny Desk it's not the end of the world I think because I mean you look at Jennifer Hudson she didn't win American Idol but yet she's an ego you know Emmy Grammy Oscar Tony Award winner and you look at uh like other successes that you know we're not even in second place and they were still able to thrive but I'm curious about what um what drew you back to the NPR Tiny Desk competition because you have brought out some really great music through it and I feel like I'm surprised that you didn't win but but what's drawing you back to that competition I feel like I don't know it's almost like it's like something to prove in a way really if I'm being honest this year it was more so about the promotional

3:03 aspect of it I feel like a big pop in our career was last year's Tiny Desk submission and it's just like free promo you know what I mean so it's just like yeah there's no reason not to do it and I just felt like this year of any year was definitely the it just made the most sense to do it with the following having grown in the way that it did it's like why would we not it's just as opportune for us to put out a tiny desk submission because it does get our does get our name out there there's a lot more followers that can like share and push the tiny desk and things of that nature so yeah I just it is interesting that you said that though because it's this is really the first year that we've submitted that like It really is like win or lose, we'll be fine.

3:54 It's always been that way, obviously, like seeing where we're at now. But this is the first year that I've really went into it with that mindset that it's not like winning Tiny Desk is going to be what makes or breaks our career, you know? Yeah, because I was wondering if it feels like Michael Jordan trying to play against the Pistons where he lost like three times before he got the fourth victory. I'm a Chicago Bulls fan. I pay attention to my sports still. I also thought about Leonardo DiCaprio when it took him several times to win an Oscar. Who knows?

4:34 I guess the persistence does come up but also I think what's great is that it gives you the attention because as an independent artist these days it seems like it's such a massive struggle to fight through the algorithms with the curated playlists the less investment from record companies with music videos where these days it just feels like that medium has been a challenge because it is very costly and it's not very incentivizing for artists to be able to put out meaningful music videos. But how in a way have you been able to try to navigate through this very, very different landscape in the way the digital world treats music and its artists?

5:16 I think while we're talking about it, Tiny Desk just emailed me. Oh. I just want to do a zoom tomorrow from 3 to 5 hmm okay well I'd like to see what happens from that it would be like breaking news if I if they said yes I was like oh my gosh I was kind of anticipating like please let it be please let it be that would be breaking news you know yeah that's Yeah, that's interesting. I'm sorry, what was your question again? No, yeah, I was just gonna say like, when you think of like, you know, Jordan or the Leonardo DiCaprio, like how long it took for them to get there.

5:57 And you think about the independent music industry as a whole these days, like how the the landscape of Of streaming and the way music video seems to be devalued because it's so costly and it's not as incentivizing for artists. How do you navigate through this very challenging culture where it feels like a real I think that we're really like getting Our footing and our stride as far as like the financial aspect of things and I think it is because I mean last year really like it kind of all goes back to the tiny desk where it was like we were so convinced that like it had to be a full band performance every single time otherwise there was just no way that we were going to be successful.

7:13 It had to be a full band thing. But from doing the daily verses and realizing that the fandom can grow from just me rapping at a camera to realizing that we can tour with just us three in situations, it has been amazing for the cost effectiveness of things to downsize a little bit as things are expanding. Yeah, and I also feel like just in music it's about realizing that music isn't the only thing that's going to make you money as a musician.

7:54 Like we have been, you know, obviously doing like the merch and things, but also it's like I've been creating books out of me doing the verses every day. I've been giving people the opportunity to, you know, donate and invest in the band as like I continue to do things. So I think it's really about realizing I think we haven't as artists, we have an issue with. We have an issue with seeming like we're asking for money or with seeming like we're not already rich. You know what I mean? But it's like that's the whole point of doing this music. That's the whole point of doing it as a profession. It's almost like a Shark Tank situation.

8:38 You do need crowdfunding. You do need your support system to help you kind of get where you need to go. Yeah, I think it's about just not thinking that streams and shows alone are going to be what gets you, you know, financial success as a musician, if that answers your question. Yeah, yeah, and also like... I'm sorry, I'm like sitting here like a little... I'm like, they've never... Hmm... I'm excited about tomorrow I hope so too yeah in all of the I will say this in all of the four years that we've ever submitted we've made it to like finalists all four years we never had them hit us up and be like hey we just want to do an interview real quick tomorrow to talk to like we've never had to do like a zoom interview with them this far into knock on wood knock on wood I hope it becomes the Michael Jordan 1991 era when he finally gets past the distance I was like Yeah, I'm going to have to look into that so I can use Michael Jordan for like three straight years he lost to the Pistons in the playoffs the bad boy Pistons and it wasn't until 1991 where he had to face them again and they swept them and then that was when Isaiah Thomas and the Pistons didn't want to shake their hands you know and Jordan made sure that he wasn't gonna get on the Isaiah wasn't gonna get on the dream team because you know Jordan's petty that way but but Jordan was able to win the NBA championship that

10:08 year against the Lakers and that was his first championship three times yes to the Pistons where you know these days it feels like if you don't if you don't if you don't get it right the first time you may not even get a second chance And I feel like the fact that he was given this many times or even LeBron James like against the Celtics a few times it's like it's like how do you have the opportunity to continue to pursue this you know and I think that I think that's a testament to your own tenacity and your own belief in your art and I think that's really powerful and I think what it's doing it's actually like opening up like a floodgate in some ways of like new audiences and And I wonder, because you just went on tour recently in the US, and I know you went to Chicago, so I was wondering about how that experience was like, you know, working with the audience and, you know, in your interactions with the crowd, and how does it feel as an artist on a day-to-day basis to...

11:08 you know travel from city to city staying in a hotel or staying in your own van or what have you like how has that been like you know going through this period of trying to not only tour but also to continue to promote yourself at the same time yeah um I mean it's been really eye-opening for one what we've been doing every time is um For this last tour that we did, which was really our first tour outside of Texas. So it was us kind of getting our footing on things. We were getting Airbnbs everywhere that we were going instead of doing hotels or whatever, because it was honestly cheaper to do it that way and more spacious and stuff like that.

11:55 It made us realize some things that we need to adjust and some things that we need to tweak on how we do things. The next time we tour it is going to be a situation where it's like maybe it would be more advantageous to get a bus to go to different places instead of we were flying to all of these different spots yeah so it had just like that was like a learning curve for one but yeah it's I think the most difficult part about it honestly is just the coming home Aspect of it because it's like then you come into this kind of mentality where it's like I don't know what to do with my hands like I'm just like here you know I mean there's almost like a like a hangover that comes from coming off a tour and it's like going from be like Coming from the mindset of like, okay, we need to wake up and we need to be here at this time.

12:49 When we get here, we need to make sure that we get dressed in time to go for load in and then we need to make sure that we eat dinner. Otherwise, we're not going to have time to before the show. Like it's going from like having somewhere to go all the time to now I've just been home recently and like honestly have felt like I've it's almost I felt lazy. In a way recently even though it's like we're expanding the career and things are happening and things are going on um like I've felt like with with not being on the road I've just felt like I'm not doing anything you know what I mean and and I think it goes into like it's been my mission and my goal to tour Since Cure started, since Cure's inception, like I've wanted to be on the road and I wanted to, that's just all I want to do.

13:43 You hear people be like, oh, well, I don't really love tour that much. Like it's kind of mixed. It's a mixed bag between how you feel about it. But I'm like, let me find out for myself that tour is bad because it's like I haven't seen it yet. So like, you know. Yeah, actually, what are your favorite cities? And I'm curious about what are your thoughts about Chicago? You can be very honest here. I'm not going to grill you. Chicago? That was the first stop that we made on the tour, and that was honestly our best show that we had the entire time. But I don't... I don't know. Maybe I need to be there a little bit longer.

14:25 Yeah. Because it's like, it didn't give me that feeling that I get, like, anytime I go to New York, I'm like this is where I need to be this is where I'm meant to be at is here in the city I didn't really get that from Chicago but it's like I did love yeah I did love it there but it's like I didn't really get to experience it yeah because I think Chicago in a way it doesn't have like the kind of glamour let's say LA does or say the New York where it's very on and Chicago is more of a late I think to me like I say it's more from a biased standpoint but like we're more like We're more laid back I would say but also where I think I've seen a lot of fans get very enthusiastic about about the bands and the artists and they get really invested into it but there's nothing that's very you know bells and whistles about Chicago in that sense you know and I think we're just a very laid back kind of like you know yeah we're there to see a great show and and it's like And I think it has like a roll up your sleeve blue collar mentality that a lot of people know Chicago for.

15:32 Do you also have had time to like interact with fans afterwards? Because I think one of the best things and I've gone to many concerts over the years and I think one of the best things is being able to interact with the artists too. Like just having a regular conversation, you know, rather than, you know, like, I mean, I met a lot of like, I met a lot of like very um various performers in the past like in person like Janet Jackson Andre 3000 Brandy and I was like wow this is so cool to like really see someone that I have listened to as a child to now what does it feel like for you when you're engaging with the audience you know before during and after show yeah it's my favorite part it's my favorite part of the show every single show that we had on tour There was like an hour long like meet and greet after the shows of like just like getting to meet and talk to the fans and it yeah it's especially like in the way that I do music and like how I like what I represent as far as just like being like completely authentic and like loving yourself and like showing up and putting yourself completely out there to Do that especially coming from a place where it's like I used to like fundamentally hate everything about myself to go from that to getting to be around all of these

17:03 people that are like that see you and also just like connect with you and like to Yeah just to realize that it's like all the shit that you have hit about yourself is stuff that inspires other people to be themselves you know so it's been such a it's such a humbling and affirming thing and I'm just so grateful for that's why people like people in my band will be like you're so good at talking to people but no it's just like I'm so grateful to be getting to talk to these people that resonate with who I am and what I'm putting out there you know what I mean so it's like I will forever I've even had my boyfriend being like you need to start charging for meet and greets but it's like I don't even want to you know what I mean like I it just feels good to and it's so funny because in in real life and like in my like day-to-day sims character I am like it kind of like I'm not always the most um Confident when talking to people and in my opinion I just like critique myself a lot as far as like my like interactions or whatever but it's like I feel my most authentic self I feel like on stage is the only time I'm not performing I feel like everywhere else is where I am performing so it's like to yeah just to to get that reception for being yourself is beautiful and amazing what did

18:33 you hate most about being Cameron McCloy for such a long time I mean the gay of it all was pretty pressing especially like coming from a background of wanting to be like a pastor and like wanting to like and like growing up in the church and stuff so it's like I was taught to hate that aspect of myself because I serve a God that hates me you know what I mean so there was that and then there was also just like feeling awkward and feeling like unconfident and also knowing at like in my subconscious that I wanted to be a musician that that's what I wanted to be a musician so like it um realizing like all of these things that I convinced myself were wrong with me and were going to prevent me from being able to be a musician like even at um at an early age like at 16 I thought I was having a midlife crisis and I like as I remember asking my mom what it what like what a midlife crisis was but like to be on the other side of it at 32 years old now like past that it's like going from like the I said in an interview yesterday that I was doing I said it was interesting to go from from at a younger age telling myself

20:03 like I'm gonna be Successful enough to be myself I'm gonna be so good at rapping that it doesn't even matter all those things don't matter you know what I mean to now on the other side of it being like I'm so myself that I get to be successful you know what I mean like the more that I pour into myself the more that I'm able to give out creatively and you know and on stage so yeah no I think that's very profound too because Like when you have to pressure yourself with perfectionism like I have to be above and beyond I gotta be the greatest at what I do in order to get any kind of respect or to be able to like minimize like the whatever faults weaknesses that I have to to gain the acceptance and to be taken seriously and then to really to really unlearn that to unpack that and be like no um I don't necessarily have to be perfect I need to be I need to be in love with myself in order for me to feel like I can give a lot more and that I can thrive and I can create great work that I'm proud of and I wonder about like the hip hop landscape or like in black music because especially as a queer as a queer black man I like There weren't very many, I mean, I think of Lil Nas X, like the last several years, you know, and how he broke through.

21:33 You know, there's Frank Ocean, and then you had Dochi more recently. And like, how did you try to work through a landscape that didn't seem to be particularly welcoming to queer and to LGBTQ folks? By making sure that I'm better than them. Creatively as a musician by making sure I'm perfecting my art to a point where it's like it it's undeniable that's that's what I'm going for I'm going for undeniability and I think yeah that's also about carving your own lane too because it sets yourself apart from you know from the norm as far as like what a hip-hop artist is supposed to be and I think also I have never made it a situation where it's like I'm hiding behind that aspect of myself I'm not using like I'm not a gay artist I'm an artist that happens to be gay you know what I mean so it's like I think it's one not using that as a crutch in it so that I don't like the same way it's like I can't remember what actor it was but it was like how does it feel I remember the interviewer asked him something like how does it feel to be like a black artist or black actor doing this and he's like I'm not I'm just an actor

23:06 you know what I mean like so it's like not making it I don't want that to be like the stamp on me so yeah it's To this point, it's felt like a superpower in a way because it's something that literally makes me stand apart and stand alone. What artists did you gravitate towards growing up and in a way that really inspired the way you think about music and the way you think about the live performance? I think my biggest inspiration musically and all-encompassing is Lauryn Hill because I used to listen to Unplugged Daily before I went to school like every single day um it influenced the way that I create but even more so it influenced the way that I show up and I'm vulnerable and I'm like putting myself completely out there you know what I mean um it's why it's influenced the way that I perform it's influenced the way that I speak in between songs it's influenced the way I write songs and what I write about like that's definitely been like the biggest inspiration for me as far as like yeah as far as like creatively and you you connected with Erykah Badu like years ago what was what was the

24:37 What was the setup in a way? How did that all come about? Because I know Erykah Badu is from Dallas and I'm curious to know what was your feelings about her before you connected with her? Was her music also a big part of your own upbringing as well? What's crazy is it wasn't. It really wasn't. I didn't really get into Erykah like that until after I heard In 2015, Donny Trumpet had put out a compilation album with Chance the Rapper and it had everybody on it. Busta Rhymes was on it.

25:22 I can't even remember all of them. The Migos were on it. It was just such a wide spectrum of different artists that were all on this thing. And I remember I'll never forget there was like one day where I was like at my homie's house because I was like essentially homeless at the time I just lived with him and I remember I'm sitting on the porch it was like raining I had like the the doors open and it was a it was in a time when I was just really really lost and not knowing what I I knew I wanted to make music work but not knowing how I was going to make it work and yeah just really like trying to find my path and as I'm listening through to the project as the rain starts pouring like really heavy the song Rememory from that project comes on and it's featuring Erica and like her verse is like her consoling chants about his uneasiness and about his um Yeah confusion on where he's at in his career and stuff like that but I just remember like hearing those words and it was as if she was speaking to me about like where I was at and what my situation was so I remember from there I started in 2015 is when I really started to do like a dive into her music

26:52 and yeah and there were like a few songs that really resonated with me and then fast forward to there was an event for Straight Outta Compton it had just come came out and I'm not as you know DOC is from Dallas so DOC was at the bomb factory and they were speaking about Straight Outta Compton it was like a whole event for it and Badu was there also speaking and I remember me and my friend Stan were playing a show out in Tyler, Texas and we realized like I saw on my phone that she was there at Bomb Factory. So we like drove 100 from Tyler to get to Dallas like on time to see this snuck into the Bomb Factory and like we walk in and Badu's on stage whenever we walk in speaking.

27:42 And I remember when I walked in what she said to the audience, she was like, and remember, she said, write it down because spelling is a spell. So like whatever it is that you want to do just write it out and I like took that into like that's what I'll do with my music like whatever I want myself to be and who I want to be in life I'll just write it out in music so long story short I end up sneaking backstage because I just always used to do that I would I liked to I was like if I like am back there in that room then it's like it makes me feel like I'm like Progressing in my career like you know I'm like I'm not even a fake it till you make it type of thing but it's like of course I'm supposed to be here you know what I mean just showing up in spaces that you I put myself in rooms before I was in those rooms because I knew I was supposed to be in those rooms you know what I mean so I'm backstage and Badu and her like posse is walking towards me and uh I end up like spitting a verse to her and I got a friend of mine was filming whenever I rap to her I got the footage from him gave it to my homegirl that worked at this magazine out here and I told her to post the video and say some kid raps to Erykah Badu like don't put my name on it just say some kid raps

29:12 to Badu because I knew if I just posted it myself it might get a little bit of stuff or whatever but if you're hearing it second hand from someone else then you're more likely to like oh snap like to interact with it you know what I mean so then there's like comments flooding in being like oh that's Cameron that's blah blah blah like you know what I mean it gets it goes semi viral and Badu ends up sending like her right hand man Cold Chris to one of our shows and like has him FaceTime her so she can like see the show and then that next night cold Chris calls me and he's like yo he wants you to perform at her birthday party so I end up back at the bomb factory where I snuck in in the first place where I snuck backstage in the first place I end up back at the bomb factory performing for thousands of people for the first time in my life and yeah that's what That's like that was like the kind of like rocket that set our career off here in Dallas Wow and do you and does Erica like come in and just get in touch with you still or does she still kind of follow your career and give you advice or She just I know like she sees what's happening she sees everything and I say that like she's God she doesn't see everything but I know She sees like the trajectory and the career and like I'm

30:44 connected with every number of her band and like yeah like we've like been in the same rooms like a few times since like recently I was in a play with her sister and like I saw Erica there but it's not a situation where I'm like I'm hitting her up and I'm like Hey will you put a feature on the song or anything like that it's like I want to get to a point where it's like where she comes to me because that's when I'll know it's like that's when I'll know that I've made it whenever she's reaching out to me for something and you also worked as a preschool teacher on top of it like I'm very curious about how does that in a way Like working with kids impact your work as an artist, like what you're witnessing from kids but also from parents and what they're absorbing, especially now that they're learning how to do iPads, which is still mind blowing to me.

31:53 I barely know how to use my phone sometimes. So I'm curious about what you've been observing and how in a way that kind of reflects the art that you do and that you create. I think it's made me be a lot more simplistic with what I do because like we're all kids at the end of the day and we all kind of like like music hits us all in the same type of way and we connect to music in the same type of way so it's really made me I don't I don't for lack of better words like dumbed down my approach To doing music In a way that it's like, what am I It's made me stop rapping for rapper's sake And start rapping to the audience And be like, what can I Being a lot more intentional with what I say And with what the songs are about And what people can take from the songs And the way that people can connect with the songs So yeah, it's It's been I think it's completely like changed the way that I perform and write and that I interact with the world and like it's changed like empathy for me in a weird way because I'm just like it yeah yeah it's been it's been one of

33:24 the pivotal like factors in my life that has kind of changed how I am as an artist and you have shared about being open about your own mental health journey and this is something that I also resonate with too because I've had my own mental health struggles in recent years and I wonder about like how has being an artist helped you to kind of better understand your own mental health journey what ways do you look to take care of yourself or to disrupt harmful narratives that you used to believe or that you would constantly believe about yourself I think a big thing about it is I mean the main thing about it has been realizing that it's like my brain is a lot different than everyone else's and by that I mean like that means that like the way one person can drink isn't necessarily the way that I can drink you know what I mean the way one person can smoke even isn't the way that I can smoke so it's made me stop trying to compare myself to Normal people you know what I mean I think that's been a big part of it to realize like yeah you do think and view the world differently but that's not a bad thing at

34:54 all you know what I mean and I think it's also like made me stop leaning on it so much as like as an excuse as far as like Well this is just how I am you know what I mean like there it it makes you realize how much what you put into your body affects your body and not even just like food wise it's like what I'm ingesting musically what type of podcast am I listening to what type of music am I listening to what type of mental state am I subjecting myself to what what am I scrolling through you know what I mean like it's made me realize just like everything is at the at the center of everything like having your like emotional health and mental health is like more important than anything else in the world and it'll put you like so much further ahead of other um creatives and people in in the same kind of like space as you yeah because I think like it's so easy for me to doom scroll and Get absorbed with so much information before 9am hits and you're like oh wow there's like a lot of information that I just learned about what happened and you know that there's a shooting or that President Trump is doing this or that ICE is coming to Chicago you know and you're just like okay I haven't had my coffee yet

36:24 and I'm just like What do you do with that? And also as someone who creates to like content and I always think about like the idea of touching grass as the kids will say like I have to spend a few hours outside you know just completely in quiet and solitude And also the idea of like okay let me hang out with a friend or let me just even call a friend or just lay on my bed and just have my airpod on and just like look at the wall and just not even look at my screen you know just like have a conversation be present and do you find yourself having to kind of remind yourself that especially as an artist that you know you work very sometimes you work in routines like when you go on a tour or Very unpredictable routines like, you know, you might have this interview coming up or that you have to fly out to this city to do this collaboration or yeah, like how do you try to, you know, try to balance, you know, the chaos that you see around the world, but also in your own work and trying to make sure that you stay grounded.

37:34 Video games. I got my video game on in the background right now What video game are you playing? Yote Ghost of Yote I'm not a video game player because I'm an outdoor person so I can't allow myself plus I'm also very competitive too I hate losing and it messes with me so it's not good for my own mental health That's so fun For me it's like it gives it in a way it uh it's like vegan productivity for me um if I'm like feeling like like say I'm writing or I'm working on something and I get to a block and I'm feeling like I just can't like kind of figure out what to do or if I feel like stuck In a situation I'm just like I don't necessarily know what to do I can go play this like our role playing game and level up in that and it you know it feels like I'm like being productive you know what I mean and all things in moderation obviously um but I I mean I'll say like video games are a big thing and then also another big thing for me to like reset and get grounded is I mean like you said touching grass like I'll go outside and go for a walk Bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh

39:04 bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh bánh of things for you and like for your mental state and stuff like I'm excited to cook right now and also for other people too I think there's like a there's like no better love than having food that's made by a person that you know loves you you know and so I think that there's something that's so cathartic and so appreciative about that and I'm curious about this current EP that you have been promoting I would love to know about the acronym of ART and also like what you know brought you to that name and the creation of this project so the acronym is essentially the answer to what is the cure for paranoia and it's ART a reality in transparency it's about just realizing like I don't have anything to be paranoid about if I'm just putting everything out there anyway it's like what can you say about me you know what I mean what can you yeah it's like I can't be I'm not paranoid about you know what people think about me or what people can say because like I

40:35 already said it I already put everything out there you know what I mean and I think that like it's about work of art is about being so unapologetically yourself that inspires other people to be themselves as well you know what I mean um I think that's why I resonated with Erica so much because it's like I don't look at her and like be like oh I want to be the next Badu I look at her and I'm like I want to be the first Cam you know what I mean so that's uh yeah that's kind of like the work of art how would you describe the music that um that you were putting together because I know that there's like the psychedelic rock to it there's also like the hip-hop infused trip-hop I'm curious about what that looks like to you like what create what inspires you with that sound what does it create for you when you uh start experimenting I really want it to be like a rain I wanted the projects to be like a range of emotions as you go through it you know what I mean like you're dealing with Um Confidence in yourself Um like when you go to like work of art You're going with like The kind of like mania And like the like Kind of like crazy feeling with no brainer You're dealing with loss and like An origin story you know I mean I just wanted to like kind of like go through the spectrum of Um Like thought that goes into Being a creative and being an artist And like I didn't

42:06 Which is why I And I also don't like the idea of boxes I don't like the idea of being like Cure for Paranoia is a this band This album is a this album You know what I mean? I want it to be like something for every occasion and every situation and for everyone You know what I mean? Yeah, because I think it's so important to think about like how, you know, the way Our world works sometimes, especially the way the record companies and radio for years. Black music needs to be this way. Latin music needs to be this way. Beyoncé should not be doing country music, even though country was served by Black people.

42:51 So it's kind of very interesting to see how... I mean, I think a prince is a great example. He was not bound to a genre in a sense. He was very much like, look, this is my art. This is what I'm feeling. I'm just gonna create, create, create. I don't feel like I'm trying to do it on the record labels term. I want to do it on my terms and the sound that I want to have. I wonder about, like, I think with this generation and with the TikTok culture, it feels like, like, I don't know I think that we have a short attention span to what goes on because it's like the days of waiting for the radio to play your song has been long over years ago now it's more like if you catch it on TikTok if you catch it on Instagram reels if you catch it on YouTube shorts it's like oh wait I have to go back to that song I didn't hear this and it feels like the first five seconds especially with the algorithms It feels like you have to like You gotta hook them by that time You gotta hook them by up I mean with captioning and your narration and everything I feel like wow Does that also factor in when you're like creating music too It's like okay how can I get people's attention in a very short attention span world that we live in Yeah Even with the Daily Verses it like made me kind of like do a trial and error of what's going to get people Like to start listening or not even to start to continue

44:24 listening whenever you're scrolling by what's going to make you stay on there and there are a few different things that I would do like in filming the daily verses and a few like kind of hooks I guess you would call it to like um get people to like stop their scrolling and it wouldn't even necessarily be what I was saying but it would be like sometimes it would be the instrumental that I chose to use it'd be like the familiarity aspect of it it would be the way that I chose to like enter the frame in the first place or you know stuff like that I don't want to give people too much game but you know like there there was definitely a lot of um Tying to like game the system because that's all it is.

45:07 That's what it is. Yeah, because I feel like the playbook for algorithms have changed already this year. And I, as someone who content creates, like I have to like, okay, likes and follows is not as relevant as say saves and comments now. So it's like, oh, okay. Now I have to rethink about how I engage with people and I hate to feel like I'm trying to go towards that because like I like to be very free spirit and be like look I don't need algorithms blah blah blah but I'm also like but I also want but I also know if I feel like my work is going to reach this audience that I'm really trying to speak to then you know like like it's hard for people to access in a way of of what's not being curated because we got a lot of curation that's already thrown at us because of what we already like online and it kind of follows through so it's kind of a weird world that we live in what um do you see yourself dreaming of like performing at a Lollapalooza at a Coachella I mean it's just kind of wild to see the way like the grandioseness of live shows and and what festivals have really turned out to but what does that look like for you one day when you get to perform in like one day hopefully that you could perform in those kinds of festivals we will um and also like it Like before I came here for this, I just left a rehearsal where I'm performing with a ballet

46:38 where they like choreographed like movement throughout the entirety of work of art. And that's always how I've wanted to do shows. I've always wanted it to be a musical in a way. Like whenever I go on tour, like like my tour that I completely put together For myself I wanted to be in like theaters not even necessarily venues I want to be like at like the Majestics and like kind of like opera houses and stuff like that and like I am today really confirmed for me that I do want to have like like ballets like you know I mean like ballerinas on stage with me like whenever I'm performing and stuff like that because I really want to emulate the art of performing um so whenever we do do things like Lollapalooza and um stuff like that we're doing ACL this year like whenever we do do stuff like that like I do want it to be a situation where it's like there is a full thing going on on stage you know what I mean I I just like the idea of just giving people In all facets of what I do, I like the idea of giving people something different than they're used to.

48:00 Yeah, I feel like you're going to prove Timothée Chalamet wrong, you know, because I know that he was talking about how ballet, you know, he's like, ballet's dead, and I'm like, says who, says who, you know? And I think that's great to go into places that really hasn't been touched or that hasn't been accessed to other demographs and also for younger people, especially because, you know, Like there's other arts that we still really need to lift up that have been around for hundreds of years. How do we make sure that that is still a reminder of that foundation? So I can't wait to see how that is going to look too.

48:44 I think that's very fascinating and also in a way like a continued experimentation continued ways of collaborating with music and I'm curious like when you're gonna go to Europe like what are you looking forward to from Europe or what is your anticipation going into it because obviously this is a Likely a very different crowd, you know, versus the U.S. So I'm curious to know what thoughts you have or how have fans from Europe or from other parts of the continents, like in Asia, South America, elsewhere, how have they been interacting with your music? What are you noticing from interacting with fans there? I remember like in our first Tiny Dust submission that we put out, a lot of the Like shares and responses were coming from like Italy and stuff like that were coming from like overseas I think I'm a little nervous to see like what the response is going to be like in London because I know that they've kind of got like more of a they got like the drill thing going on which like shout out to them but it's like I'm not that and I am interested to see especially like being here and being something like being in America and being something different than Americans are used to and like the typical standard of what hip hop is is one thing going to another country where it's like this is what I get from

50:18 this is what I'm supposed to get when they think of an American artist or whatever it's like or an American hip hop artist they have like a certain thing in their mind so I yeah I'm interested to see what the response is when I kind of like flip that on its head a little bit do you see yourself doing more experimenting different kinds of music videos because I know when you put out the music video for your last year's NPR Tony Desk I was blown away by it I was like wow this is the kind of medium that I miss because I I'm a late millennial I'm an old millennial like I'm 42 years old hate to age myself but here I am but like I grew up in the era where the anticipation of a new music video or music videos and visuals like yeah it was I remember waiting for the new Madonna video or the new Janet Jackson video and how much anticipation was built up you know behind the music where you kind of see the behind the scenes of how they create the videos and then to say um um to say like um watching a lot of like how the documentaries are being created how um how people you know see that medium as a way to to communicate because I think that there's something that's very um I think Beyonce's Lemonade and her 2013 album was a great example of visuals and how much her fans love talking about the visuals even though

51:50 she didn't really give any of her last two albums but on our tour you know that was the whole thing you know and I think that there's something that's a there's a thirst for that so how like what kind of visuals do you see yourself wanting to gravitate toward though what would you like your music to speak about I definitely don't want to put out any like music video music videos I don't want any shit where it's like Like the whole like rap into camera Like I don't want any of that I want every single thing to be like a short film almost And I want like the lyrics and stuff that I'm doing to all be just lines As far as like this is just lines that my actor has to say in a script You know what I mean?

52:44 And not necessarily like Yeah, like I said, just going out of the norm. All of the music videos will, in fact, be like just stories. And I picture I plan to be very episodic with it as well. That's why it's like I haven't even really put much effort into like I have treatments for different music videos and everything, but I have not put effort into actually creating those music videos yet because It will get lost in the sauce of things because it's like I don't even know what Cure for Paranoia is going to be yet I don't even know just how big this is going to get but I do want to wait until a point where there is like a for real for real fandom there that is going to appreciate the art of the visuals that go into it and it's not going to be a situation where it just gets lost in like in your doom scrolling you know what I mean And as we start to wrap up, a question that I have in mind is, if you were to talk to yourself 10 years ago, what would you tell that person?

53:52 Wow, 10 years ago, I was 22. I was literally having a just Almost a mental breakdown because I realized that I was the age that my mom was when she had me. And I was just like, I don't know. I'm still a baby. You know what I mean? I don't even know what I'm doing. I would tell myself...

54:41 I don't know I guess I would tell myself I trust you I would say I trust you to get us where we're gonna be and that is I trust you through all things I trust you through the moments when you feel like you need to drink to numb the pain of being yourself. I trust yourself whenever you decide to not drink anymore and to just go through that, just feel that, just feel through that pain of being yourself.

55:25 I trust you to decide to date a guy in the open and against your better judgment and against against being afraid of what people are going to think. I trust you. I would tell myself, I trust you to become yourself. That is very beautiful and a great way to soothe that young 22-year-old self because I think the reason why I love asking those questions is because I feel like sometimes we have to really be gentle with our own past and think about Think about what we were feeling you know that sadness this loneliness this uncertainty about the world ahead of us and how we have in some way survived it and kind of like yeah like we we did it together you know and also thinking that like I wouldn't even be in this position had all that stuff not happened every single thing that has happened in these past years in these past 10 years was supposed to happen in order for me to be where I'm at right now and I have I'm very happy with where I'm at right now.

56:42 And what are you looking forward to doing besides obviously continuing the tour in Europe, but what else are you looking forward to? What are you most happy about so far like that you're eager to work on besides obviously the collaborations and thinking about the theater route? Yeah, I'm looking forward to writing a book about all this for one I'm very much looking forward to that I'm looking forward to being able to do like TED Talks honestly I'm looking forward to being able to inspire other people that are going through the same thing there's so many other like 16 year olds and 22 year olds who just also feel like they aren't supposed to like themselves because of the The weight that society puts on them and who they should be.

57:38 And I'm so excited for the badasses that are going to be created from all of the trauma that I had to live through. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm excited about bringing change to this genre and this industry and what people think hip hop should be. I'm excited to be that bitch. I love it and you know I just want to say thank you so much for being on my show I hope that people get to listen to your new EP check out Cure for Paranoia on Instagram and also you have your own personal Instagram as well Cameron McLeod as well Cure for Paranoia Instagram is me gotcha gotcha yeah and I hope people get to follow your work and I really hope that you do finally get that NPR tiny duck spot Pistons baby Pistons baby This is the one This is gonna be your Michael Jordan moment So let's make that happen So yeah But all the best to you my friend And yeah I am looking forward to following your work Right on man And next time we're out in Chicago You gotta come through Just hit up somebody And we'll put you on the list Absolutely