Is Confessions 2 Hailed As One of Madonna's Best Works? w/Tranna Wintour

0:02 I can't get out of this thing. hey everyone so welcome to the banhimi chronicles podcast my name is randy kim i'm a little tired over the weekend because uh madonna's confessions 2 album has come out and i have been just in euphoria since then and and what a way to uh not celebrate uh america 250 and i want to welcome uh a recurring guest and one of my favorites uh tranna went tour and she is a trans comedian internet personality based in montreal canada and you know we were talking back in may about madonna's surprise appearance at coachella with sabrina carpenter and i know at that time you were feeling very skeptical i was actually cautiously optimistic with this one about this confessions to record leading up to him like okay the rollout seems to be on par um the fact that she's working with stuart price was very promising that she's sticking to basically one producer i think with maybe a little contribution from more wise um but it is kind of like it is really weird to see how as a now 43 year old has been transported back to a 22 year old like this excitement that i forgot what it was like to be this madonna fan yeah anticipating every release and i think that there's something so cathartic about

1:33 what that means and you know i think it's very interesting that she named the confessions too because i think when i listened to the pop pantheon podcast dj louis was just talking about how it's not something you really want to name after like one of your best out was one of your best albums and and there's always something about the comparisons like okay are you able to live up to that kind of standard and i honestly have to think and maybe but still i'm writing the momentum here but i think it's one of our best albums i think it's actually better than confessions on the dance floor if i have to be very honest with you the more i think so too yeah i mean confessions on a dance floor had some songs that i didn't really care for like i'm not a fan of isaac i felt like that song was just over my head um i wasn't push was a little weird for me um but i know that i mean yeah i mean i've always well not always because i think when it first came out i was really obsessed with it but i think over time the first confessions for me has not like aged the best like i think the singles are incredible like like those are among some of her best tracks ever and i would put future lovers and forbidden love um up there as well but i think the rest of the album is like it's solid it's fine but it's not like mind-blowing you know so i would say like the confessions one is like you know half of it is really incredible and the other half is like solid yeah and i think

3:06 whereas this album i feel like with the exception of maybe read my lips from beginning to end this is like this is incredible and i would also say that it's one of her best ever and it's funny because i have a friend who texted me the morning of the release day because he had listened to one of the leaks um but i was waiting to like have the album in my hands but i don't always agree with his musical taste at all and he texted me in the morning and he was like this is one of her best like it's up there with ray of light and bedtime stories and erotica and when i read that i rolled my eyes because even the day of release like i could not allow myself to believe that that could even possibly be true but it really is true and i am like you said earlier like it does remind me of that time like i mean i was a kid when ray of light came out and that was the first album that i got to experience as it was released um because i became a fan with evita when i was like 10 years old so ray of light was like the first time i got to participate in a release and i remember here in canada it was so massive like much music rm tv like had a whole Madonna-rama weekend where the whole weekend it was just Madonna music videos and then she did a live at Munch Music interview which is on YouTube it's really a great fun interview

4:38 and it reminds me of that excitement that you were talking about I even went to a record store here that was having a midnight release party so we were able to buy the record at midnight on the Thursday night and everyone in the store so they played the album in the store and everyone was dancing and interacting and it felt like old times and it felt so good oh yeah because you know i think i forgot what it means to be this madonna fan in anticipation release date because i think i was trying to be excited about hard candy at the time because i'm like okay you know she's working with timberlake and timberland obviously that didn't age well since then but like but like i i think that at that time i was like well everyone was like really into that bandwagon and pharrell so it's like yeah but when i was listening to it i was like god i just felt like she was just allowing them to take control and just right and i remember with that album like there were a few songs that leaked and like i think even the cover art leaked and i remember listening to some of those leaks and just being like very underwhelmed so yeah i think i think confessions won was the last time that i was like really really excited about a madonna release like i still remember the day that i bought confessions one like i remember i was going to school downtown and i went to the big hmv mega store that we used to have and i got the album and i literally skipped my classes that day and i went home and i listened to it

6:13 and i was up on the train and i was looking at the booklet pictures yeah oh my god and this again feels i feel that same excitement and it really does feel so good like it even made me emotional listening to the album and the excitement that i felt like it it did make me feel like a kid again in a way and that felt very moving yeah i remember the day that confessions on a dance floor came out and i was working at coconuts aka fye which you know back then they were selling records and so i had gone on my off day i think when it opened like my manager was just opening the door and i was like literally just waiting for her because i was ready to go take the train to my university and i grabbed that album popped into my cd player and listened to it on the way to school on the train and i was like god this is such a music ear candy and i think some guy in the train was asking me like oh who are you listening to i'm like listening to the new madonna album you know and of course of course he was perplexed but i was like well i don't care what y'all think about her so yeah i i do remember that and i think the thing that really made me sad about heart candy and the subsequent albums that came out of it is like i don't think she had really anything to say any real message exactly i mean mdna she didn't really have anything to talk about i mean yeah she had to divorce with guy richie but it didn't seem like that was the center stage rebel heart was a very confusing rollout um very very messy rollout and

7:44 then yeah man i met she did try to go in that direction but it just felt very inauthentic and i know that i do read you know madonna fans are like well that's not the best album since confession it's the best album since man on max and i'm like okay whatever floats your boat but the majority whatever floats your boat for sure but i like with madam x like i appreciate that there was at least an attempt at some sort of like real creativity that i think was missing on rebel heart and mdna and hard candy and i can appreciate like the strangeness of madam x and there are some songs on madam x that i really really do like but i do feel like overall it was a hot mess you know like even the whole concept like madam x is an equestrian madam x is a spy madam x is god knows what like it was kind of dumb you know like i'm sorry like it was there was no there was it was silly because there was no substance behind it you know it was just so gimmicky but it was also very hollow and empty like it didn't mean anything and it's like madonna was always a shapeshifter but it was always done really organically and the madame x personas just felt so forced and they weren't thought through they weren't fully realized it's not like she was really channeling these different characters um and the vocals on madame x are awful the girls yeah she's putting those girls on it's like god it was it was hard to listen to yeah and honestly i think like you know

9:16 from hard candy through to madam x obviously there are some exceptions but i think overall those albums were just missing her heart you know like when i listened to lower east side girl like i can hear her heart like i can hear her bearing her soul which was always the case you know like i know that people always think that she's not such a great vocalist or singer but i really disagree because she has such a rich emotionality in her voice and that's what's been missing and it felt so good to hear that and i think we hear it in i think we hear it throughout the album like you know even on the songs that are really about the dance floor there's heart in these songs and that's what makes them feel so alive yeah and you know when i think about that particular uh confessions too it's like that was something that was missing out of this whole element the vulnerability this autobiography autobiography by i can't even talk to this but this you know but her own journey and that was something that was missing the last couple yeah exactly and mdna was you know was very messy like she had too many cooks in the kitchen for that one too uh like yeah having william orbit for this one i mean there's some ballots that i thought really struck out for me but then you know the edm with martin solvig and um i think aviji came in like for rebel heart i think yeah forever yeah i mean it just it was just it was

10:50 a mess it was also congruent yeah mdna was just very it was a very cold album you know so even on songs like um i fucked up or best friend which i think the lyrics are really personal like almost to the point where like i feel almost like uncomfortable because they're so personal but the production is so cold that you don't feel the emotion of those lyrics like there's no there's no emotion being conveyed um but i will say i went to a madonna party on uh saturday night oh no friday night and um they played girl gone wild and i have to admit it slapped you know it could be a good song it's just fun it's fun you know like i i forgot that it was like parts of it are fun and again this is the thing like with all the hard candy to madamex albums like there are some good songs along the way it's just that madonna is re as much as like she's been such a successful singles artist like she's the most successful billboard hot 100 solo artist of all time but she's also an albums artist like each album from 83 to 2005 was so solid and each album was its own universe she's a really strong albums artist and that's why these last 20 years have felt such have felt so strange you know like how did this artist who

12:22 was just so good at making albums go 20 years without making a good album like that's insane to me but thank god she's back yeah and i think where was i in confessions to release so i was at a queer party queer house party and i was you know making out with this guy for a while and i said i have to go at 11 p.m which is like that release time and i'm like i have to leave i don't care well i stayed till like 11 30 so i'm like okay got me to somehow extend that a little bit but but it was but you know coming back on the drive was like wow this is this is exactly i don't think i felt this way about an album in general since the beyonce renaissance album you know so right where i felt like this is the kind of album that really um feels transformative and yeah and it's really an album like you have to take the time to sit down and with your headphones or put the vinyl on but you have to take the time put your phone away sit down in the dark and listen to this album from beginning to end like there is genuinely a narrative happening here there is a flow everything is so intentional there is a story being told it very much in that way to me feels like an extension of the celebration tour which was so also autobiographical and um it felt like the celebration tour was kind of like a synthesis of everything that she is and everything that she's done

13:56 and this album feels that way too like it feels like the summation of everything that she is as an artist like we're covering every zone here you know we're covering the love of the dance floor the power of the dance floor but then we're also covering like her emotional life and her interior life and that vulnerability that you were describing like the song about her brother lola les girl like these are some of her most emotional vulnerable songs of her entire career i i wholeheartedly agree and you know what this is something that i felt on the celebration tour and i had seen every tour since reinvention with the exception of madamex i didn't make it to that one so i've seen her live many many times and i i mean obviously she's one of the greatest live performers but you know if you look at the reinvention tour confessions even sticky and sweet like there's um there's such a precision in these shows and there's such juggernaut shows that they can almost feel like they're not necessarily even though they can provoke emotions like she's not really emotional on stage you know and she's not necessarily warm but on the celebration tour i really felt this joy and warmth from her that i've never felt before and i'm sure that that came from her near-death experience i feel like that opened her up emotionally in a way that she hasn't been in a really long time and i really felt this warmth and joy from her on the celebration tour and i think that has carried

15:28 over here like i feel her joy and i feel her warmth like she's actually giving us a part of herself on this album i also think that's because she was working on this biopic which didn't work out with universe so i think she was so immersed into this whole project that i did think that it was bringing up a lot of like certain memories yes certain things and i also think that she probably was thinking about working on a soundtrack perhaps for that biopic too in mind and so I think a lot of it did transfer and it's like you know what I might as well just make an album and it's a 20 year anniversary of confessions on a dance floor I feel like working with Stuart Price I know William Orbert was kind of mocking the idea of him working of her working with Stuart and I'm like well I mean he had his chance with MD&A and how did that turn out not so well but i feel like it's because she didn't give him enough time no like willy i was re-listening to um and i was listening to the bandsplaining podcast they recently just did a big series on madonna that's really really fun um and they had read this excerpt from an interview that she had done when ray of light came out and she was madonna was talking about how like making ray of light took longer than usual for her because she usually works very fast but william orbit works much more slowly and he really takes his time and he's very painstaking in his process so i feel like

16:59 with mdna i feel like that whole i think it kind of fell short the william orbit tracks because she didn't give him enough time to do what he could really do you know right right and i thought that way of vici i think that you know that rebel heart thing um rollout was so messy that when it got leaked out it's like yeah because i actually like the original demos that she was supposed to release yeah there's some really great stuff like yeah rebel there is rebel heart i think is maybe the closest of those four albums that we keep talking about that i think is the closest to being a really good madonna album like there is a great madonna album in there it just didn't fully come out you know like because of all the production choices and just like the chaotic mess of the process of making that album but there is a good album in there somewhere through the mess and living for love i mean look i i gotta give it flowers i i do love that song both that and the remix that she would perform too yeah yeah i liked it too i liked it too yeah so let's get into like the track by track um yeah let's do it yeah so it starts with i feel so free which is to me or to everyone it's the future lover's sister and you know obviously this was the first song that she decided to launch and you know a lot of people were kind of like mad about it but to me i

18:30 i liked it because it kind of reminded me of what beyonce did with uh break my soul when she released break my soul i was like okay this is kind of like very middling it didn't seem to be like it didn't seem to make sense it didn't feel like it was like getting me to jump off my seat here right but then when renaissance came out i'm like aha there's a sequence to it yeah it has to fit in you know and of course you know she brought in the madonna vogue part of it too which also elevated it and i think when i look at i feel so free this is this is kind of like this reminder of um how she did in confessions tour you know the way she yes exactly future lovers with the donna summer um i feel love and i feel so free is a great way to like you know kick things out but yeah what are your thoughts on that particular song yeah like it's interesting because when it first came out like me too i liked it i don't know if i loved it but i liked it but now honestly it's become one of my favorite madonna songs honestly i listened to it on mushrooms a couple of weekends ago and i'm telling you and i listened to it on an incredible sound system and i felt like i was like inside the song like there are layers upon layers upon layers in the song and you know when she especially towards the end like when she sings i feel so free like it transports me like it lifts me it takes me somewhere i think this is

20:01 one of her best songs ever honestly i'm obsessed with it and i just keep loving it more and more and more and there's i don't know how many like if there is this little sound effect it only happens once like in the middle of the song that sounds like an 80s cartoon when like a cartoon character would like whip out a magical sword and it kind of makes this like magical chime there is just a little sound of that in the middle of the song that i don't know if people are picking up on but just that little detail makes me so happy like the level of detail that is going on in the production on i feel so free is truly next level like this song feels like its own universe it does and i i love it as the introduction and when we get to the next song good for this so i feel like this is like this long extended introduction that continues to build up so you know and at first i was like oh okay well i mean when i saw it on the uh the uh the confessions two short film i was like oh okay this seems like it's a weak spot you know but then i'm like the more i listen to it the more it's like okay this is like an extension of i feel so free like this is still the introduction the way i yeah i agree with that it's growing on me yeah yeah and i just i really love that line of like it's good for the soul so let down your hair and breathe in the air like it's so simple but it becomes a mantra you know like i i went to

21:33 this that madonna dance party that i mentioned before and at the beginning of the party they played the full album and that line feel it really does become a dance floor mantra you know it's like it's it's that idea of like letting down your hair and breathing in the air is to feel so free it's all about and that's what's you're so right about it being a continuation of the opening because i feel like i feel so free combined with good for the soul it's she's inviting you to open up she's inviting you to let go of the things that are stressing you to shed all of those things and allow yourself to be in the moment allow yourself to be free and let loose on the dance floor like that's the invitation that she's giving us and one step away i'm in love with this song me too yeah and i love the video that she did for that as part of the um the short film and it harkens back to what it feels like for a girl the car crash it's got this whole dramatic cinematic vibe to it it's a thriller it's something that's part of a movie and One Step Away is just such a I don't know you know it just like again it feels it's like it's hitting closer to the climax in a way you know it's like okay it's getting to that part where you're like anticipating what's next and i and i love and i love what's one step one step closer it's just a way i'm just like really really in love with that song you know there is

23:05 an amazing build-up happening here um and i'm not a dj but i do make amazing playlists and you know when i make my playlists especially for like a mushroom trip like the flow obviously is so important and the build up you know you gotta create create a kind of tension so that you can have this moment of explosion which i don't want to jump ahead but i do feel like that moment is danceteria like i feel like these first four songs are really like obviously they're each their own amazing experience but like we're building up towards like this orgasmic dance floor moment and then it goes into bring your love i know when it came out you weren't too hot about that song it felt like it was kind of like hopping on the sabrina carpenter bandwagon yeah actually i kind of saw a little bit more differently at that time and i still you know and i still enjoy the song very much i think it's it's it's kind of like a reminder to me i felt like it was a reminder to the younger generations like yeah this is who i am this is who i've been and i think that i'm seeing more gen z folks starting to really tune in i mean there's some younger folks that i you know um tune this album to and they're like wow this is really impressive and yeah and and it makes me very proud to finally see that because i'm like okay this is exactly what we have been clamoring or what we've been yeah exactly rooftop for a long time yeah because there's a whole there's a whole generation that only knows eb dna rebel heart of madam x

24:38 and they don't even necessarily know those albums you know what i mean because no one really cared about those albums like it didn't even reach them so like they yeah they just don't know but it's okay you know like they're the ones missing out but um this is an opportunity for them to learn now it's like okay i hope that you are now curious to go back into the pre-2005 era you know yeah and i do think there's something really badass about like a 67 year Oh yeah That is like universally appealing like this has gotten some of the best reviews of her entire career it's like rave reviews across the board even a rave review from pitchfork like you know this album is fucking legit and bring your love has really grown on me I didn't really like it at first I mean I liked it but I just thought it was very basic i still think it's basic like it kind of reminds me of like even though i really do adore the first album the first madonna album that's one of my favorite albums but there's a simplicity in the first album that is very effective and i do actually think that applies to bring your love like it is simple and straightforward but it works you know and i got to admit like when it comes on like i'm i'm here for it now and i think the video also helped like when i saw the short film that bring your love section was so well done that it just it made the song um come to life for me yeah and of course we gotta talk

26:11 about dance interior i mean it's like vogue part two meeting hung up i mean summer anthem anyone i mean i i fucking love that song to death like i cannot get enough of dance this is her catchiest song in i don't even know how long i'd say since vogue because i mean that rap part is like i mean it just catches on you know and and yeah this song is a masterpiece oh yeah god 110 i mean this is the thing that will get younger people on the dance club and to get people like us geriatrics to be like on the dance floor because like i was trying to do a dance challenge to it and i'm like god i'm like really out of shape i really feel like i'm doing this but this is what i'm feeling you know but i mean danzeteria is such i mean i love the title of it because it is an it is an homage to the old danzeteria nightclub in the in the uh 80s and you know this is kind of like where her roots really took place with that cbgb's and you know and she kind of really brings this introduction of what the new york scene was like back in the days when you know she dated um jean michel basquiat who is a well-known uh painter who died early and you know going into andy uh warhol to keith herring i mean it goes into like this this gay 80s vibe during right in the beginning of the aids crisis to what that was also yeah i think that there's something that's so historical and

27:44 so sentimental and i feel like it's such a new york banger like tens it really oh my god absolutely like this this is the song like this is this is the hit you know on the album and you know with the exception of these last couple of years between the celebration tour and this album and the writing of her biopic it's very rare that Madonna really talks that much about the past especially this in such a detailed way I love that she's just telling this story of her early 80s existence in New York this song just has such an energy that it transports you back in time like it's so powerful but it's also just really fun you know what i mean like this is a fun song like the delivery all the name references to the people in her past and the people of that scene and it's runway it's runway it's a runway music it's like this is where yeah drag artists are gonna be like up and running up the absolutely oh yeah this is it's just so it's so celebratory and it's the most perfect beautiful alive homage to that time period yeah read my lips i know you had just mentioned you were crazy but i actually really like that song but i like the fifa version i think the fifa version has more of a punch to it okay yeah

29:15 yeah I don't know I mean it's not bad you know what I mean like this is and I don't skip it when it comes on but I just think it's probably the track that I feel like of everything on this album it's not really saying much you know like it's very classic Madonna in the sense of like you know there's this there's always been this recurring theme in her songs this idea of like don't tell me what to do shut up leave me alone let me do my thing you know this kind of feels classic Madonna in that sense you know it's like the defiant Madonna that we all know and love yeah but i just feel like musically and lyrically i don't know it just doesn't really do much for me again i don't dislike it but i don't love it either like it i'm very kind of neutral about it you know because it goes into her continuing tradition of infusing her love of latin music and culture and you know like this like feed i didn't i don't know if that's how you pronounce his name but like he's a colombian artist and i think she got it right this time with another colombian artist this unlike maluma you know yeah i agree like this definitely feels like a step up from the madamex crap yes and this is actually a more upgraded version of bitch i'm loca you know so yeah she did with um maluma as well too on top of um um medellin you know so yeah this is definitely better than that oh yes yeah and everything

30:48 the song everything is like an edm festival you know but it's also like the word where she says everything is crystallized and it's got this intense and pulsating beat i'm like okay this is a weird song for me bro i'm like i think i'm gonna really like this one and her yelling into the mic is like okay i like this primal rage that yeah so yeah i'm like okay i really am buying this i'm buying into this you know yeah this one is like slowly growing on me like i would say kind of similarly to read my lips like i like it and but it doesn't stick with me you know what i mean so for example like when i heard it first at the listening party and then at the dance party that i went to like it's like when it comes on i enjoy it but then i really forget about it like i don't think it's the most memorable um but yeah well i mean i think that one will continue to grow i mean i think there's like there's a lot going on in it so that's exciting um but right now like it's not the one that like i would like go to to play yeah and i think this is one of those it's kind of similar to the renaissance albums like look i like if i'm gonna listen to everything or like um uh good for the soul i'd have to listen to the entire album because it because i'd have to because it makes sense for me to listen to it that way yeah exactly but i feel like you know for the so obviously there's

32:21 the 16 track version of the album and then there's the 12 track version of the album um and basically for the 12 track version she just cut like the last few songs the like the slower ones but i think that for the 12-track album like i would have cut read my lips in everything like i think to go from like the euphoria of danceteria and the excitement of danceteria and go into continue that party with love sensation like that makes more sense to me that's like to go from danceteria to read my lips like that's like it feels like a a step down you know it kind of lowers the volume a little bit yeah exactly but i feel like going from danceteria to love sensation would really pop off you know like you know what i think one thing i forgot about was that she added like there's like a very exclusive one i think to itunes where she included the song hot sauce which i think is a god awful like it really does not me too we're back in birthdays song territory oh more like spanish lessons territory which i think someone brought that up about read my lips it's like this is what spanish legends couldn't be and i'm like i completely forgot about that song because i hated that song that i completely forgot that it even existed i'mlike oh my god that is the most cringiest ass song birthday song you know birthday song i'm not gonna lie to you sometimes it's very catchy also because i did like m.i.a back in the day but see i i like spanish lesson more than birthday song really yeah i mean i'm don't get me wrong i agree with you spanish lesson is horrific it's

33:55 but it's oddly it's oddly contagious i find it's oddly catchy it's a good beat though i mean it's got the pharrell you know yeah pharrell beat that i've always been a fan of you know like growing up so i'm like i don't hate the beat maybe it would be better as an instrumental yeah let's keep it as instrumental but i'm like but hot sauce i was like wow what in the i couldn't even i couldn't even listen to it the whole way through honestly when she brought it hung up i'm like please like really you're bringing that song to this mess i'm like i'm pretty sure like abba like the members of abba were like uh no uh please do not put this in the album at all yeah you know you already had it with hung up we already gave you that gift please do not try to push that into this garbage but that that was a hot mess i'm so glad that most that it's left off of like the vinyl yeah let's pretend it didn't happen yeah and then i i felt like that should never have been released also the lyrics are just so dumb like it is a stupid title on top of it it's like wow yeah it's a dumb title and like yeah so i'm so glad that that is not part of the lexicon i mean if she's ever tried to put that on tour this is kind of where my bathroom break is gonna happen so i'm like knowing her she would put this on the tour she always loves to perform the songs that the fans hate like she loves performing candy shop and she performs spanish but she performs spanish lesson on the sick and sweet tour as well you know like she i don't know what she she's just

35:29 so contrarian you know she's a brat she's a brat always has been always will be and that's why we love her yeah like she literally played the entire madamex album against our will you know at the time yeah exactly i mean especially when it was past midnight and the fact that you know we had a phone in a yonder case so like we were really having to suffer through a lot of it like i know a lot of people are going to come after me it's very artistic i think that there are things i know i was surprised at how many madamex defenders there were i was really surprised like they came for me you know they came for me hard i know they do but um but i'm just like okay i mean like obviously i'm all for everyone having their own taste i don't ever expect anyone to share my opinions but i think that from like a musicology madamex objectively is a pretty terrible album yes like sorry to say i have not listened to that i have not listened to that album or rebel heart i mean those are albums i have that i have actually actively avoided i just don't feel anything with it at least mbna i can listen to beautiful killer which really should does not have really does not deserve the bonus track treatment because i yeah i know it's better than most of them oh my god yeah and and free is a really beautiful ballad yeah no there's yeah oh yeah um next one love sensation i mean she released that before the uh the official release and i i'm addicted i've been addicted to this song it's like i really love it yeah it's giving the daft punk the music's no good

36:59 without you you know it's like wow this is such a really transcendent you know going absolutely bonkers to the song just being completely like on edibles or whatever so yeah oh my god it is so euphoric this is the song that kylie has to jump on for the remix i yes that is such a kylie vibe to it yeah it would make a lot of sense for her to get into that song yeah i do think the lyrics are a little bit dumb of course but but the melody and the music and the production are so good that it really doesn't matter but it reminds me do you know who nadia ginsberg is uh i don't think i know her So Nadia Ginsberg is this genius actress and comedian and performer and she used to do these hilarious Madonna parody videos like she does an amazing Madonna impersonation and she did this video once where it's like Madonna in the studio and it's just Madonna up to the microphone just being like yeah yeah and i feel like this song just reminds you of that so much like because literally on this song she's just like all those times that she just says yeah it's just so madonna you know oh my god yeah i mean i yeah love sensation i mean i i i'm so glad that she had released it ahead of time because it gave me something to really look forward to and i was like okay i was underwhelmed when it first came out though like i liked it but it didn't really i didn't really connect with it that much

38:32 but it again has also really grown on me and at the dance party that i was at on friday like this one really blew the lid off honestly like everyone was jumping up and down like this one is the major one love without words this is one of my big big favorites yeah that piano sound that little piano sound oh my god early 90s house music I'm like I love a good piano sound it's so good this one is orgasmic honestly like there is a crescendo and buildup that happens in the song and like the explosion is phenomenal like this is a dance floor anthem this is pure psychedelic euphoria this is next level this song like this is like this is why madonna is queen of the dance floor like no one understands the power of dance music the way this woman does yes and i think that is so true to her roots and yes this feels like her this is the and someone in my comments made a really great observation and they said that it's really a shame that she used the title mdna for the mdna album because this album should be called mdna because all of these sounds that are happening on this album all of the themes um

40:03 all the sort of emotional places that she's going to like collectively this album represents her dna as an artist so completely you know because if you look back on her discography you know each album is a moment in time each album is its own thing you know like erotica is its own thing ray of light is its own thing but because confessions 2 is happening 40 years into her career confessions 2 draws a little bit on everything from those albums you know like she's bringing in elements of erotica she's bringing in elements of bedtime stories in ray of light so like this is why this album is the mdna because it's the collection it's like the summation of everything that's come before and that's why this album feels so monumental because it's like everything she's learned and everything that she's done put all together and then blasted into the future so let's talk about bizarre everyone's been talking about that song with martin garricks and i mean to me i like it it but it also feels very mainstream typical edm you know i don't i wasn't i wasn't wowed by it but i mean people do love love that song and i think it's probably because the martin garricks name feature on it but also i never even knew who he was i didn't really know i still don't know yeah i still don't know as mariah carey would be

41:34 but you know it is interesting that the lyrics was kind of like in a way um kind of like well he didn't she didn't name him but like sean penn i know i thought that was very interesting because i'm like me too she hadn't talked about sean penn since like um the like a prayer album but also like she did have a little fling with him like 10 years ago during rebel heart which was very head scratching but you know she well we don't know for sure they haven't talked since though they haven't been hanging out since then no no that something did happen yeah this song reminds me a lot of sorry from confessions one which i know sorry is a madonna classic but i have to admit not one of my favorites no um i love the videos i love the video yeah the video's great and i love the tour behind it i think yeah yeah but yeah I actually really like this one I wouldn't necessarily say love I wouldn't put it in my top five of the album but I think the production is really sophisticated I think it's really solid yeah i i think this is one of those songs that i think will get a lot of traction i mean you play it at an festival i mean i'm too old for that shit i i mean i know people say well you're never too old for this well no i i really am i cannot stay all past 11 you know doing this but like but i do think that people would really be into it you know i think it does it definitely has that grasp yeah

43:07 and we've seen i love the beginning of it i love the opening oh yeah but you know what's also bizarre the song school and i love that and i think it's her most school song it's her most adventurous song on this album i was like wow this is the kind of this is something that god control couldn't be you know it tried but school i felt like was pulled out successfully it was like it was the kind of weird um madonna song that's like well i've never heard this i don't know what to make of it but i am on this wagon for this one and i really do like it i totally agree i i i'm probably like god control maybe a bit more than you um i don't think it's flawless but i think like it was i actually but you're right like every good madonna well every almost every adonna album has this moment at least since ray of light um like on ring of light i would say that was like either skin or shanty like the sort of like really balls to the wall kooky like experimental bizarre s*** song on music that was impressive instant which is one of my big big big big big favorites oh yes um on american life i think it was nobody knows me um and now we have school that sort of sits alongside that pantheon of weird madonna songs and this is one of the best ones this song is bananas this one is like this one will with your brain it's so good

44:40 and there's a darkness in it you know like there's something sinister about it um there's a dark energy in this song which is like dark energy is a part of madonna's dna like that's a part of who she is it's like you know there's like the part of madonna that's like yeah exactly like i think madonna is like part of her is really a romantic and then part of her is a brat and then part of her is this like dark goth girl you know secret goth girl yeah i mean i think a lot of love for school i mean i do think this is like a like a hidden gem in this album yeah fragile i i definitely want to talk about this one because it is about her late brother christopher but also what we also have to point out is that she also lost her brother anthony her older brother anthony like not long before that so i think that obviously i don't think it's exclusive to just christopher but maybe also anthony to some level but i know that she was closest to christopher publicly for a long time you know was her dancer was a creative uh director um was her confidant i mean up until you know she married guy richie and things fell apart pretty quickly and then you know he wrote his own tell all book which you know you could tell that there was a lot of hurt and pain and they weren't talking for years and then you know he was dying of pancreatic cancer and you know I think that kinda like allowed them

46:14 to mend this deep wound but also appreciate the kind of bondness that they had because like I mean you know christopher was very instrumental in like the blonde ambition and the girly show tours which were iconic tours yeah no he's a big part of those of some of her most iconic lucky star you know i mean she she dedicated the immaculate collection to him you know like that's a testament to how important he was to her artistry and i mean i i read that book like probably all of us i remember i still remember i listened to the audio i remember the day that i bought it and i literally stayed up all night i could not put it down i read it all in one night it really changed how i looked at her you know um and it's not to say that like i mean obviously he doesn't really talk that much about the things that he did to hurt her like obviously all relationships are a two-way street but at the same time like he that's his truth you know like those things that he wrote about are the experiences that he had with her like she is a really difficult person you know and i think both of them it's not surprising i think i think we spoke about this before maybe um but you know it's similar to barbara streisand who lost her father really young and her mother was very emotionally unavailable and it's like for people who grow up

47:45 in um homes that are not nurturing you don't really learn how to love yes you know and you can't expect that kind of warmth and nurturing from someone who doesn't know how to give it and I think for a long time Madonna hasn't known how to give it and I'm talking like I know her but I do know her and you know what I mean like and that's why this song I have to admit was the song that I was the most excited for because I wanted to hear how she felt about their relationship and this song is along with l.e.s girl this is my favorite this song made me cry like the line we have the same eyes like literally makes me cry that line is so beautiful that's one of the most beautiful lyrics she's ever written it says so much you know they it's just it's so heartbreaking it is yeah one thing that i will say my only critique of this song because i do think it's a masterpiece i think it's one of her most beautiful emotional songs ever but i don't like that line about the nervous breakdown like that kind of takes me out of it a little bit because it feels like it doesn't feel poetic you know like that line you had a nervous breakdown just it's a little oversharing and it doesn't fit in the song and what's really interesting is

49:17 that someone on the madonna subreddit um who was really good friends with christopher um shared this post where like he had kind of mixed feelings about this song because he's like he was communicating with chris up until the last days and he was like chris was not a fragile person you know like chris was someone who was really really strong and he also said that like christopher didn't have a nervous breakdown you know so like i don't know if madonna was just trying to rhyme or maybe that's how she sees her brother because it's the only way she can make sense of like what he did to her i don't know but all to say is that like any you know sort of like familial relationships like there's so much complexity in their relationship um and the song is really a beautiful like testament to that relationship it really is and you know what like i was very emotional to the song i don't think i've been emotional to a madonna song like it's been so long i haven't been emotional to a madonna song since ecstatic process on american life yeah and american life felt like it was a deeply personal album but yeah like i was listening to fragile like i had lost my bird a year and a half ago and we had a very fraught relationship you know we both i mean you know there's a lot of love but there's a lot of complexities it's like one of those things where i feel like i know him the best and know him the least because i felt yeah different lives and we had

50:47 a very challenging relationship and you know up until the final month of his passing like we were like trying to in some ways reconcile with the complexities and yeah i like like her like we didn't grow up in a house full of open love we did not know how to love and I think that it caused this big rift and so listening to Fragile felt like it really hit me because certain lyrics of that song really like was gut wrenching and it's like wow this is it's like if there's a tribute to my own brother it's really this song yeah i couldn't have thought about it i mean i listened to mlbc podcast and i mean they were all crying to that talking about fragile i was like wow you know it definitely had an effect on people but it definitely had an effect on me listening to it i was like wow yeah it was a lot yeah gut wrenching is the perfect word and i'm really sorry for your loss um thank you but and i think also like the last thing i'll say about fragile is just like her vocals on this are amazing like she's singing in this higher register that sounds almost like heavenly you know like it's like very ethereal and it feels like through her voice she's making this connection to the other side like i just love that she's doing things with her voice that contribute to the narrative you know like i just feel her putting her heart and soul into this yeah i i think this is going to be one that's going

52:19 to like really stand out for a long time yes undone yeah yeah this is no oh yeah fragile is it for me automatically in like her top 25 best songs yeah ever oh yes my sins are my savior with strome um it kind of sounds like the stamp of tom's diner when i was listening to it i was like wow this is kind of like a really cool song it's got a little bit of that rescue me vibe to it and yeah and like the horns oh yes this is the sexy song it is a fun song i really really enjoy this this is erotica this is erotica oh yes this is hearkening back to that era of the early 90s like there's elements of it that remind me of um uh what's the where life begins yes yes i was oh my god yes exactly because i couldn't name the song off the top of my head i was like why does this sound so familiar like where life begins is my favorite part where life begins like carnal sanders said it best i was always cracking up so much every time i hear that i'm like wow like who could have pulled that off to that song you know and make it sound very horny to make you know going to kentucky fried chicken kind of a sexy thing you know yeah exactly but what i love about this song like it this song feels kind of like a transition it's like fragile is sort of the end of the rave yes and my sins are my savior is the beginning of the come down you know and like yes

53:52 like when i do my little mushroom trips with my friends like we have like we always have like a rave part of that journey and then once the rave is over it's like you kind of transition into music that feels like a bit more sensual and warm like you're coming off of like because you know techno and electronic can be a little bit cold sometimes and you wanna feel that warmth after the cold and this is that warmth you know and again this is why you have to listen to this album from beginning to end like the flow is so fucking good and smart and like it's just so true like the dance floor rave experience that like i love that on this album she's even included the come down from the rave yes you know it's not just this album is not just a rave it's like you're getting the come down as well you're getting the closing of the bar closing the club and walking in like it's already like the sun is about to rise and you're just like like having a hangover and you're like you're in a very reflective introspective place like I'm looking back you know on this slow journey that I was just yeah and maybe my sins are my savior is like when you leave the club and go home with someone and have a little intimate moment and then by the time you get to LES girl it's like you're walking home you have your headphones on and you're thinking about your whole life oh yes and what a way to go do that betrayal it's also like very similar to like the erotica vibe

55:22 but it's also about her stepmother joan chicconi and yeah you know i always knew that she had talked about her own very complicated relationship with joan i mean i think you know i think some ways people have said that joan tried to do her best to be um not necessarily a replacement figure but to at least give her some guidance but you know for madonna you know she's got main character syndrome big i mean she's the definition she's the definition she's the epitome of leo yes when you think leo if you if people don't understand or know anything about astrology if you want to know what a leo is madonna that's the definition and whitney houston you know i mean you got some pretty big whitney was the leo too yes uh-huh and she wow yes okay yeah exactly you know and i was like okay all right well that really hits i mean that explains a lot of things um but i feel like this is what's interesting about this album or one of the things is that like you know for the really hardcore fans we know who christopher is we know who joan is we know who all those people on dance satiria are and it's just crazy to hear her making songs about these people that have been part of her mythology for so long but that she doesn't really speak about that much especially not in these recent years so like that's fucking cool you know even just from like a gossipy point of view where like you want the tea like she's giving us

56:54 that you know yes i i mean i enjoyed it but i was also like wow this is really interesting to finally talk about her recently passed us that mom and i but i feel like she probably wrote this song a while ago because this is the song that mere ways has a co-write on so like i feel like this one was sitting around i feel like these are things that she's been wanting to say about joan for a long time but she like waited maybe to pass and maybe yeah maybe for the biopic exactly yeah yeah yeah and i wonder how her father i mean i know her father is like really really up there obviously and and i wonder if you know i'm curious about like her thoughts about her father and this record but you know but i think she kind of leaves the bee for now yeah and so the test with uh her daughter lola so it's kind of like marigirl growing up as an adult and lola believe it or not is about 30 years old i know she's going to be 30 this year i was thinking about that yesterday it's crazy i remember when she was born i was like nine years old i remember when madonna was pregnant and everyone made such a big deal about it i remember it was a huge deal yes people don't understand like you can't even understand how big of a deal it was oh it was it's like it was just like we were trying to figure out um it was like mary giving birth to jesus honestly like it was on that level except it turns out lola's not jesus she's more satanic

58:27 but oh clearly oh clearly in you know in a fun way too you know i've always wanted to see her tour because i know it's like what she's really interesting i definitely would love to see her solo show not just because she's not only because she's madonna sorry but only i think that there's i don't know i mean i've seen videos of her performing live and like i it's really not to be mean i i don't i would like to say it as constructively as i can but like i she doesn't have it i'm sorry like yeah i mean you can't live live performance like like you can't fake that you know like it's an energy that you're born with or you're not and um i just don't she's just too lifeless you know like even in that tiktok interview that they did with bob the drag queen like lola sounds like like a really depressed like 45 year old you know like yeah she talks like she speaks in such a monotone voice she sounds so bored all the time yeah like girl wake up a little bit i know that's what happens when you're an apple baby i think so like you're kind of bored yeah and i think that like again this is just me putting my like armchair psychology hat on and like please take it with a grain of salt trust me i'm not taking myself seriously but um like one of the most it was just a small detail in that bob the drag queen interview but like bob was talking about madonna's mom who as we all know passed away

59:57 when madonna was only like five six years old and um and then he asks lola a question but he phrases it kind of weirdly because he's talking about madonna losing her mom so young and and he's like but you didn't lose your mom so young and then lola was like thank god and she like literally says to madonna like don't you basically something along the lines of like don't ever die you know and i feel like lola and a lot of these nepo babies who just grow up you know with every advantage and privilege imaginable like i feel like they never really grow up they don't know how to take care of themselves you know and i'm sure that for lola the idea of her mom eventually passing is just like she will not know how to exist you know because she's never learned i don't think at least my read is that like she doesn't know how to take care of herself like she feels very lost to me like when i hear her speak and even on this song like i feel like she's really really trying to find her place and i like i can't even imagine how hard like again despite all the like material privileges like from an emotional point of view to grow up with someone like madonna as your mom like that's really fucking insane it really is i mean i mean at least i think with rocko like i think he's really into his art and i think that yeah i feel like rocko did kind of find himself like he feels more solid yeah yeah i don't also

1:01:28 because you know madonna i mean lola is a woman you know she was a firstborn and you know and her father carlos was kind of like you know i mean i know he was in the picture but more privately it just felt like she never really knew who she really was because i mean you have this behemoth of your mom who yeah overshadows everything and you're trying to have your own identity and trying to separate yourself and that is nearly impossible it's like you can't escape that you know it's kind of like exactly it's like when you look up kids who don't know how who have struggled to have grown up i mean you look at the will smith fan well and jada smith's family you look at um um whitney hughes and bobby christina oh my god you know like how when she well when she passed it's like well when whitney passed it's like yeah she just couldn't handle that yeah no it was so awful that's why i do um you know when i first heard the preview of the song i didn't really like it but i actually really like it i think it's like one of the most interesting songs on the album like musically and lyrically like there's a lot going on here um and you know again because of that mythology you know like i just mentioned how like madonna is like giving us you know she's sharing stories with us about christopher joan the people from danceteria and now she's also sharing this moment with us with her daughter you know

1:02:59 who again like when madonna announced her pregnancy and lola was born it was like this major thing in pop culture you know so like to have this song where the two of them are in conversation with each other is incredible yeah it's like marigirl part two it's like it has a lot of ray of light marigirl the sound it's very ray of light and now it's like it's kind of i think you mean little star yes oh sorry i don't know why i said marigirl but little star it's like it just has even when madonna refers to lola as little star and butterfly which she did obviously on ray of light like this is like this is why this album is so powerful it's so detailed and it feels like madonna is really thinking she's really putting something together she's really take yeah she's reflecting exactly which again as we said like doesn't you know we've been missing that reflection yes oh we have and and the last closers lower east side girl i know how much you love that song i am obsessed with this song it's beautiful it's got that ray of like guitar sound to it which i really enjoyed it's got it's like the sun setting of this album and in a way i hate to say this if this is somehow her last album theoretically you know god forbid what a way to end it you know it's like leaving the bar or like you know it's like coming home you know after a long night and just really sitting back and being like wow what has my life become in this like

1:04:32 the people that you've come across you're in this age in your life now and it's like to me it's like it's like what does she tell her 20 year old self and this idea that she's going to be okay and i think that kind of like hits into my heartstrings because i'm like wow this is a woman who basically came in with no connections no social media um just trying to figure out how to live and you know was the gay man in her life that took uh took her in and you know martin burgoyne gave her a chance to you know being in his band and it's like wow it's like she's finally like really being able to reflect so deeply because there was a time where madonna just hates looking back in the past yeah exactly that you know and i'm like i'm so glad that she can finally be like no i have to give it its flowers i have to i have to allow my 20 25 year old self to be like wow this this this this person was very scared this person yeah like going through horrible life traumatic situations and and i think it kind of harkens back to this whole particular period and and what a way for her to end that album and such a beautiful reminder about her legacy but also like the appreciation and the fondness for her survival yeah that's so well said this is the most like unexpected song like i mean obviously we knew the album's called confessions too

1:06:03 so we all knew it was going to be like dance floor bangers and confessional stuff yes but i could not have imagined a song like this you know like it's so stripped back her vocals are so beautiful her vocals on this song i don't know if you've ever heard it but it reminds me of it's a leaked demo from the music sessions and it's with william orbit she did a cover of an abba song called like an angel passing through my room have you ever heard it i did not actually i highly highly recommend that you listen to it um so this song reminds me a lot of the vibe of like an angel passing through my room like it's just so simple and stripped down and and like you said like this song really just feels like her reconnecting with her 20 year old self like it reminds me of like on the celebration tour you know how there was like that madonna avatar with the mask on throughout and in the first act of the show you have this moment where they're standing side by side and the avatars like dressed in what madonna used to wear in those early 80 days and like this song feels like a product of that moment from the celebration tour and like you said it's like by ending the album going all the way back to those early new york days it's it makes the it completes the entire circle of her whole career in this one simple song you know indeed and

1:07:35 and it's so sublime and emotional to take in everything that she's done over these years like you said starting from nothing becoming the juggernaut that she is like to a point that i think people will only fully understand sadly when the time comes yeah you know but that despite all of this mega success mega stardom that she can still come back and bring it all back to just this simple organic bearing of her heart that is so fucking powerful because like you said if this ends up being the last song of the last album of her career to end on such a warrior to end on such a gentle note is pure poetry it is it is and i'm just like it's it gives me the chills like when i when i got home like after the release party because that last song i didn't really hear well in the store because i had to leave catch the metro um when i got home like i listened to the album on my headphones like from beginning to end and when i got to l.es girl i was floored and then i'm not even kidding i listened to it on a loop for

1:09:07 an hour oh wow i just could not get enough of it i'm like i need this song in my veins like because this feels like the real madonna this is the real madonna that tenderness that exists underneath the really harsh exterior mm-hmm yeah wholeheartedly agree i don't think you've said it any better than i could have even thought of and you know as we start to wrap up why did madonna and gaiosiri blocked you i'm now i'm curious because i know you gave an open letter about that too so madonna blocked me around the rebel heart era oh wow um so she had posted this picture of a guy that was holding up a sign that said when will you fuckers learn and Madonna was just being very preachy and it just really annoyed me that day because I felt like you know Madonna for all like your talk like you really don't actually do that much to help the world but so I commented on the picture and I said Madonna when the fuck will you learn and then she blocked me two seconds later and i actually had no idea that gaiosiri had blocked me i found this out like a couple of days ago because someone sent me the post that he wrote about confessions um and i wasn't able to view it and then when i tried to get to his profile like it doesn't exist on my instagram so like i found out that he blocked me i think the reason that he blocked me is because i don't know sometime like this must have been like months ago

1:10:38 i commented on one of his posts and i basically like called him out for ruining her career and indoctrinating her into zionism so i was kind of just like fuck you for doing that and i'm sure that that's that comment is what got me blocked yeah and also thank god for rosie o'dano because she does stand 10 toes down i always like the fact that you oh rosie is the fucking real deal yeah you need a friend like her but she's also pro-palestine so i'm always glad that i always feel like she's always going to be in people's her friend's ear yes i know i feel the same way i'm like i know he's a friend like her everyone needs a friend like her and madonna especially needs a friend like her in her corner yeah because god how serious fucking sinister i'm telling you guys he's a monster yeah he's a monster and i saw that freddy the man interview which i know you weren't wowed about i mean i mean i can't stand billy corrigan but billy corrigan was kind of going on and on and on it's like okay well why aren't you talking about the truth or dare scene when freddy the man was on there i'm curious about their falling out i would have paid to hear i think because i'm like he did a lot of great things for her along with michael jackson so it's like he got very like and shakira so no he was i mean come on he was with madonna for the most important years like he was with her from 83 to 97 like or even 98 like come on come on yeah exactly and you know but i'm i'm really it's it's kind of wild to see you know the cast of characters in her life and how they've responded to her work and

1:12:08 and also you know i know that you had started the blank list podcast uh recently with your co-host and i gotta say it's hilarious i love it i hope people thank you so much tune into it you know i've gotten into it because i'm like oh my god you forgot about this oh and you're bringing up topics that just had me laughing about what happened on 9-11 like i it took me a long time to confess that i actually got the mariah carey glitter album that day that's amazing you're a hero it was amazing yes her song would say it was fantastic and and i'm i hope that you know this is a fun listen you you know and i hope that this is rewarding listening to the casuals or the people who are just stepping into the madonna water for the first time and i hope it won't be the last because i think i'm so jealous actually of the new fans like the young i know kids who are discovering madonna through this album and now they get to go back and live through and experience the discography for the first time like this is gonna be her discography is gonna be mind-blowing to these kids who are just discovering her like they are in for an amazing ride it will it will change their lives it will change their lives it will and it will and she's still alive to tell that story thank god she's which is why she has to win the grammy album of the year like i'm literally i'm starting that campaign next week yes and if i if i fucking see taylor swift showgirl album on the album of the year i am gonna like really flip tables yeah i know tables will need to be flipped yeah just even the thought of her being in the nomination category is just really appalling

1:13:39 but you know yeah that's neither here nor there but i just hope that i hope that people are starting to come down on it especially at that stupid wedding she did with travis oh don't get me started so but anyways what uh what a fun time i'm so glad that you're on i cannot wait for the confessions to tour we'll probably have to talk about what songs do you think i can't wait for the hopefully remix album slash like bonus track edition i want the i know that's coming i want the eight songs but please do not let anything anything be like hot sauce please do not put those songs into no we don't need that all right well you know what take good care we're gonna talk again soon on this for more to come