Have We Reached The End of Celebrity Stanning Culture? w/Tranna Wintour

0:04 Hi everyone, this is Randy Kim from the Venemy Chronicles podcast. So I am joined by Trana Wintour. Trana Wintour is a highly acclaimed bilingual comedian, singer, writer, hostess, and producer. Legendary comedian Sandra Bernhardt described her as a candle in the window on a cold dark winter night. A just for laughs new face Canada in 2019, Trana was named one of the queens of Canadian comedy by Fashion Magazine. And you have been featured in the Quebec head series, Big Brother Celebrities. And you have co-hosted the CBC podcast, Chosen Family for Three Seasons, which was named one of Apple's best podcasts for two consecutive years.

0:48 Your debut album, Save From Your Affection, is available on all streaming platforms, and you are currently developing an original comedy series with a major Canadian broadcaster. So I first learned of you through your guest appearances on the MLVC Madonna podcast. Shout out to them. Yeah, shout out. Yes. And I love your hot takes on Madonna's legacy and have since followed you on Instagram. As a longtime fan of Madonna myself, more specifically, the first 20 years. Sorry, I know it sounds like a shade there. It's not shady. It's accurate. Well, it is accurate. Yeah. It was refreshing to hear you talk both brilliantly about Madonna's legacy while pointing out on her serious flaws.

1:35 And I'm excited to get into your thoughts about her and also on pop music culture. But first, how have you been navigating 2025 so far? Oh my God. Start with an easy question. Yeah, it is very loaded. I mean, obviously this year just on a very macro global scale has been horrific. A really hard year. I think we're all feeling it. I think... I think also there's this unspoken trauma that we all experienced during the pandemic that I feel like we've just kind of swept under the rug and haven't addressed. And I think that that plays into a lot of things that are happening and a lot of what we're feeling right now.

2:18 So I won't lie, it's been a really difficult year, as I think it's been for anyone with a conscience. But, you know, in a weird way, on a personal level, like creatively professionally like knock on wood i've actually had a decent year um but you know i think that as much as i can be i try to be a really present person like i think it's important to be aware of what's going on in the world of what's going on in your local communities um sometimes i can be a little overwhelmed and like swallowed up by it but I think it's our responsibility to be awake and to be active in trying to combat some of the awful things going on.

3:07 Yeah. And I know touching up on that, you're based in Montreal, Canada. What does that look like for you watching what has happened in the US and across the globe and in your own backyard? Well, you know, Canada geographically is extremely close to the US. Obviously we share a major border that, I mean, basically spans the length of the country. So we're very influenced by what goes on in the US. Like we always have been. What goes on in your country has a direct effect on what goes on in our country here. So, you know, in Canada, too, there is this rise of conservatism and it's alarming. I think that like Montreal, for example, for a long time.

3:50 has really been a bohemian punk city that's been a place for artists to come and thrive because for a very long time, we're talking up until like six years ago, Montreal was an extremely affordable city, like one of the only major North American cities that was truly affordable. And just in these last six, seven years, it has changed so drastically. You know, I've really witnessed my city that I love so much losing so much of the things that make it great. So that's, you know, that's something that's hard to watch. We also like, I mean, we're coming off the night after the amazing mayoral election in New York, which is so exciting and inspiring.

4:33 But in Montreal, we also had a mayoral election a few days ago and we elected someone horrible who is in bed with Airbnb and who... is like just so on the wrong side of things and had so many like racist candidates in her party. Like it's just, it's not great here either. It's not quite to the level of the U S thank God, but we definitely have our issues here too. And how do you feel about where the queer and trans community is in Montreal more specifically? Well, I think on that front, Montreal has always been quite a progressive city. You know, I've always felt quite safe as an out trans person in the city.

5:15 You know, I think that... our city right now is experiencing like a major housing crisis. And with that obviously comes a really major and heartbreaking homeless situation. And I know that for some people, there is this feeling that Montreal like has become more dangerous or unsafe, but it's truly one of the safest cities in the world. And I still feel that way. I think that... there is a general rise in transphobia and homophobia happening, not just in Canada or the US, but more broadly. I think there's so much false information. And I think that trans and queer people are really being used as a scapegoat for so many political programs that is truly horrifying.

5:58 So there definitely is some of that, you know, like Montreal has definitely lost some of its progressive character, but I would say that I still feel quite safe here. And how do you step into your thought authenticity as a trans woman when you have a public platform? What responsibility does it carry for you? That's a great question. I mean, I feel I can't represent an entire community, obviously. I don't think any minority community can ever be fully represented by just one or two people. I'm thankful for my visibility as a very, very minor public figure in Canada.

6:41 But to me, I really do think that the role of artists is to help come to some sort of understanding of the human condition and the state of the world, you know? So for me, it's like, I do feel a personal responsibility to use the little platform that I have to talk about the things that matter to me, which is basically just human rights. Like, it's just so wild to me that things as truly simple as Human rights, human decency, affordable housing, affordable food, access to free health care, how these things have become so polarizing when it's like everyone deserves these basic things.

7:24 Like I was watching a video earlier today of like the crazy, you know, right wing U.S. political commentators freaking out over Zoran's victory. And they're talking about him like he's a demon when literally all he wants is for New Yorkers to have affordable housing and free transit. And they treat him like he is a demon. It's truly insane. It really is because it's a weird timeline to be in. I've told this to a lot of my friends on a daily basis. Because the SNAP benefits in the U.S., which actually feeds many folks that are low income, are getting cut this month as we speak.

8:05 And a lot of the mega-Republicans are trying to say, oh, it's the Democrats' fault. And I'm like... The goalposts, the movement of the goalposts just really amazes me. They cannot take responsibility. That's the thing. For anything. And just the complete manipulation and distortion of the truth. And I love that Zoran brought that up in his victory speech. Cuomo and all those billionaire goons spent so much money on advertising and campaigns to manipulate and twist the truth into lies and it didn't work thank god you know but there is that attempt on their part to always twist things again even to take this man who literally again just wants people to be housed and have free transit and access to child care And they are vilifying him and acting like he represents the end of the world when they are the end of the world.

9:06 They are the ones that are literally every day actively trying to make our lives so much worse by taking away those benefits that people need by, you know, all the horrific ICE stuff that you and I spoke about off camera. It's just this distortion of reality and the fact that so many people fall for it when it's not even logical. Like, it doesn't even make sense. And yet so many people fall for it. It's just, yeah, we're living in a truly very bizarre timeline, very dystopian. But again, moments like last night remind us that, like, if we can actually... put aside the culture wars and just unite because ultimately this is a class war so if the 99 of us who are not billionaires can unite we can really get things done but they've done a very good job of making us so divided you know which again like zoran proved that we can get past the division and actually work together and achieve something that is for the collective good.

10:13 And I really hope that last night is a sign that we are moving in that direction because we cannot keep going the way we're going. Yeah, because I cannot tell you how many times I would have angry phone calls with like other friends of mine. I'm like, you know, why am I still here? I know. I know. And I've been having more and more like not radical conversation with my friends, but I would say practical in the sense that. Yes, a lot of my conversations with my friends is sort of about letting the rage out and venting and commiserating with each other.

10:54 But I think now I'm seeing my conversations with my friends moving towards more things like, what can we actually do to change things, you know? So like, for example, here in Canada, we don't have states, we have provinces, and each province has a leader, kind of like a governor, basically. So we have one of those elections coming up next year. And it's like, last night made me realize that, like, we have to start mobilizing now, you know? And I do feel actually really energized now to... really participate in a concrete way because I don't think it's enough to just go on social media and share thoughts and tell people to go vote. Like that's not enough.

11:35 And I don't think anyone's minds really get changed online. But what was so impressive about Zoran's campaign is that like it was so grassroots and it was about canvassing and going door to door and having face to face conversations with people. And I think that that is the way forward. Yeah, and I think to your point, I think it also goes beyond Zoran. I also believe that this is where the direction of so many people want to head, especially for the Democratic Party, which I can go on with a new episode on. Yeah, no, exactly. And it's so wild that the established Democrats hate him so much, which is proof that this party as it is right now is not for the people.

12:19 But I agree with you, this is so much bigger than Zoran. The fact that his campaign and his message is literally resonating around the world is really encouraging. And I think part of the reason why it's so powerful is because we now have a concrete example that we can do this. Because I think before him, it felt so hopeless. It felt so much like, what can we actually do? We can't do anything, but that's not true. And to start pivoting, what was the inspiration behind the name Trana Wintour? Well, Anna Wintour, of course. Editor in Chief of Vogue magazine, for anyone who doesn't know.

13:00 And it's kind of funny because I feel like it's a name that I didn't even get to choose. So long story short, I guess we're talking a good 14, almost 15 years ago at this point, when I was really starting to come to an understanding of my trans identity. It was at the same time that I was also really stepping into my identity as a performer and as an artist. And those two things were sort of happening at the same time. And one Halloween, I dressed up as Anna Wintour. And that year, my friend dressed up as what we were calling a trans version of Justin Bieber. And this is when he had just come out.

13:41 So like my friend from like the waist up was dressed like Justin Bieber in the Baby music video, but from waist down, she was wearing like fishnets and heels. And that whole night, we all just kept referring to her as trans Bieber. And then I was just kind of like, well, if you're trans Bieber, then I'm Tranna Wintour. And the name just stuck. And, you know, to be honest, in hindsight, I don't know if that's the name that I would have or should have chosen for myself because it really sounds like a drag name. And I think that sometimes that confuses people into thinking that I'm a drag queen when I'm trans. And like, sometimes that can be frustrating. But at the same time, like the name always gets me a lot of attention.

14:22 So... At the same time, I can't complain too much. Absolutely. And also, I wonder about your thoughts on Anna Wintour's legacy. I mean, I know there's been a controversial figure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. You know, I think, like, as someone who's so deeply pop culture obsessed, my relationship to pop culture has really changed a lot over the years, as I believe it should for most people. When you're a kid or a teen or even a young adult, I think there is... a sort of like idolatry, like there's an idolizing of your favorites and they can do no wrong. But hopefully as you grow up, you realize that no one's perfect and everyone is flawed and Anna Wintour definitely is.

15:07 I have a lot of mixed feelings about her. There's a part of me that really admires what a powerful woman she is and what she's built for herself. There's a part of me that's really impressed by that. I love her personality. I love that she scares people. I love all of those vibes so much. Um, but I also hate that she's not very progressive, you know, like she does. I think she's a perfect example of like an establishment Democrat, you know, like I didn't see her fundraising for Zoran, you know, um, I think that I would love to see her become more progressive, but that's just not who she is, you know, like, and I don't, I don't relate to that part of her that is definitely like conservative as much as she likes to think that she's a liberal.

15:59 Like so many people of her age demographic, you know, that like to think that they are liberal thinking people, but in reality actually have quite conservative values and, you know, are really kind of just in things for themselves and their fellow millionaires and billionaires. I do not think she's someone who has given back a whole lot. Mm-hmm. And with Madonna, it's already 20 years since the Confessions on the Dance Floor album, if you can believe that. I mean, that was back when I was in college. And so what are your thoughts now? What was going through your mind when it came out? And how do you feel about it now after all these years? Well, I do still vividly remember that period of time.

16:40 I remember when the first little clips of Hung Up started to make their way online. And I remember vividly listening to the full song for the first time and just being blown away. And I remember thinking to myself, I cannot wait to hear this in a club on a massive sound system. It was such an exciting time to be a Madonna fan. Mm-hmm. I also associate that time a lot with the tour as well. She came to Montreal, she did two nights here and they were the only Canadian stop. So like the show literally sold out in like two, both nights sold out in like two minutes and miraculously, like I was able to get tickets and it was just like that concert is like, I think I actually prefer the concert over the album.

17:27 I do. Maybe this is like an unpopular opinion. I don't think it's the best album. I think the singles are amazing. I think like half of the album is brilliant and the other half is just good, you know? But the tour is a full on masterpiece. Even just as a concert film, like the way it was filmed and edited, like just as a piece of film is a masterpiece. So, you know, and I do think that that was... That was the last imperial age of her career, you know? Like, I do think that that was, yeah, the crowning glory.

18:09 And I wish that it could have continued. And I think that there was a way for it to continue. But I think she lost a lot of her confidence after her divorce with Guy Ritchie. I really do identify that as being something that really changed the direction of her life so dramatically. I think she became really insecure. I think that in that insecurity, you know, there was this attempt to follow trends instead of set trends. And I think she got really lost in the following of those trends. There's an amazing French artist named Milan Farmer who's massive in France and other like French speaking places in the world.

18:50 And she's often compared to Madonna like every, you know, female pop star with longevity, but she started in the eighties around the same time as Madonna and like, you know, explored a lot of similar themes in her work, but she's someone who really managed to maintain her artistic vision and integrity. And even just like two years ago, she released like one of the best albums of her career. Like to me, I don't understand how Madonna has not released a truly great album in like, 20 years that's crazy to me it really is especially because from 1983 like from the debut to confessions every single one of those albums is amazing yeah it's a landmark each and it's like there were times when madonna album or single comes out and it becomes like a huge uh conversation on the water on the uh on the water cooler yes and it's like it's like i used to remember being so excited when a madonna album comes out i would go home from school like or from college and i'll just grab an album and and play it and just it feels like such a revelation each time yes and yes you're right i do believe that the confession store is actually better than the album itself because i saw it twice in chicago and and i was just so blown away like everything about it was like i remember the uh the gym bars were like yes

20:20 high and it came down you know for jump and You know, it was, like, magnificent. Yeah, it really was. Especially Erotica, You Thrill Me. Oh, my God. Incredible. Incredible. That has had me in a chokehold for the last 20 years already. Yeah, I would say especially the first act with all the horses and the equestrian theme. Like, also just the intro, you know, like, the video and then the disco ball descending and the way it opens up and everyone loses their mind. Like, it's so magical. She was really at the height of her powers. Yeah, she should have at least swapped out La Isla Bonita for everybody because she was supposed to do everybody.

21:03 No, I really love that version of La Isla Bonita, I have to say. And also what I love about it is that, and you can see this especially in the concert film, she looks so happy. Oh yeah. Like when she's dancing around to La Isla Bonita, like she has this giant smile on her face that we've not really seen a lot in these 40 years, you know? Like she's not the happiest person in the world. No. Especially towards her fans, like in concert. Oh, I know. It's so funny. I always joke with my friends that like, you know, when you compare her to other pop stars like Kylie or Lady Gaga, who are literally like on their knees, thanking their fans, you have Madonna almost like spitting on her fans and being like, you guys suck.

21:45 Which is funny and like part of the reason that we love her is the sort of brat side of her, you know? Exactly. And you know, what's kind of interesting is after the Guy Ritchie marriage, I think her career really did start to unravel obviously around that time. Because when she started working with Timberlake, Boo, and Timbaland and Pharrell, But then when Lady Gaga came out around that time, something told me that she felt very threatened by it. I know a lot of Madonna fans are going to come after me for saying this, but Lady Gaga was different than Britney Spears. Yes. And because Britney Spears... it felt like madonna can really have her at the palm of her hands exactly and i felt like she could like okay at least i know that britney is not a threat to me because britney will worship me exactly lady gaga it's like yeah i respect you but you're not the only one because i always felt that and i would tell this to people lady gaga is more out to john i don't yes i completely agree wardrobe you know and and her being very like very um being very sophisticated and not the controversial acts that Madonna would put on.

23:00 So it felt like Madonna did not know what to do with Lady Gaga. So I felt like she was trying so hard to... I agree with you, but I think Madonna was already in a fragile place when Lady Gaga came onto the scene because obviously we know, especially 20 years ago, that, you know, the pop music world is extremely ageist. it's so rare that any woman over 40 has had a number one hit. I think you can literally count it still to this day on one hand, the number of women over 40 who had a number one hit. And so I think Madonna was feeling all of those things. I think she was feeling the insecurity that came with the devastation of that divorce.

23:43 And then you have this... of an artist, Lady Gaga, that comes out and dominates the pop culture scene in a way that not even Britney had, you know, in a way that no one had before, I mean, or since Madonna, you know? Like, Lady Gaga was the only one who was able to sort of create create the level of spectacle and frenzy that Madonna and Michael Jackson and Janet did in their days, you know? So yes, I agree with you. I think she was shaken by that. And I think that she didn't know... how to find or maintain her place in the pop world.

24:26 Ironically, I think the answer was actually very simple. I think Madonna just needed to stay true to herself as an artist instead of trying to make music that sounded like the things that were on the radio because she never did that. She always followed her own artistic curiosity and she would always seek out underground producers and she was always so ahead of the curve because she was doing the things that she was responding to authentically. Yeah, and also I think it's interesting to point out that in many of our tours, recent tours, except Celebration, she would always avoid doing a lot of major hits.

25:07 Maybe she'll give you a sprinkle of it. And I always felt that it was also ruining her own legacy with her own longtime fans because they're like, look, I grew up to this music. I don't want to hear the new stuff. I'm not connecting with it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And that was always, that was frustrating. I think the most frustrating tour for me had to be the Madame Max tour for a number of reasons. Because yes, I liked the fact that I was in a theater. I liked the fact that I almost got a chance to fist bump on Madonna when she came by me, but I got my hand knocked out by a security guard. I held her hand on the MD&A tour. Gosh, I'm so jealous. But like, but that is so wild. But like, but yeah, at that tour, I was, it was like, She didn't get on stage until nearly midnight.

25:50 I was so tired. And I was so tired throughout the show because I was like, the songs were not matching the energy. It's like, look, just put it in the morning time. Just be brave and put it at 9am because at least I'd go. But that was so frustrating for me as a fan because I was like, I think artistically it looked great, but... to be up at like 1 a.m hearing her do portuguese covers is not ideal for me i i do agree with you like i i want i didn't that that's the only tour since the first tour that i ever saw was reinvention that was my first time seeing madonna um when i was like just finishing high school um And it was such a dream come true.

26:34 And since Reinvention, I've seen every show at least twice. But Madame X is the only one I didn't see live because I was not crazy about the album and she didn't come to Canada. And I just couldn't justify spending all that money to hear an album that I didn't even really like. And I watched the concert film and I liked it, but I didn't love it. And I thought some of it was really actually quite cringe. Like there's a lot of white savior stuff going on in that show that I found really almost comical, honestly. But there's a little... What was that one song? And also Killers Who Are Partying.

27:15 Yes, Killers Who Are Partying. Which is my most hated Madonna song of all time. Same, same. It's awful. It's ridiculous. And also the reason that it's so ridiculous is that she doesn't actually do that much for the world. She loves to project this image of herself as a freedom fighter and a rebel heart and has this song, Killers Who Are Partying, where she's literally saying that she will defend all these marginalized communities. And she never does. So that's what also adds to the ridiculousness. If she was actually doing something, I mean, I know she has the Raising Malawi Foundation, and that's great, although I've heard different things, you know?

27:56 But there's so many things that she doesn't even talk about publicly, you know? She doesn't even use her power and her voice to talk about things that are happening now. So, like, she's always been a bit of a hypocrite, I think. Yeah, because I feel like the worst thing that's happened to her legacy is social media. It is the worst thing. And Milene Farmer, the French artist that I was telling you about, she doesn't even have a website. Wow. Like, she never got on social media. And in between albums, she literally disappears. Wow. But... But it does not affect her popularity because every time she comes out with a new album, the fans go crazy.

28:40 She's still having massive hit albums. She literally just did a stadium tour like two years ago, sold out, you know? And it's like, that's what I wanted for Madonna. I wanted Madonna to... just continue with her artistic vision and just remain true to that. But I think that for those first 25 years that we talk about so lovingly, I think that she did manage to navigate the artistry and the fame and the celebrity side of things. but it's like after 2008, it just became all about the celebrity side of things and the fame and maintaining the fame and the art suffered.

29:22 Whereas before the art never suffered, you know, because of her unrelenting desire to be constantly in the spotlight. Yeah. And also like, I almost did not go to celebration tour last year. I think it was because of, Amy Schumer came out as one of the judges. I know, which is awful. And that was horrible. And for those that don't know, she's a Zionist. She's a very well-known Zionist. And Madonna has had a lot of very, both side-isms. Yes, big time. And I think that's where I struggle as a fan. And this is kind of where I'm starting to struggle right now with celebrity, music celebrity, pop culture more specifically.

30:04 Like, like i have been longtime fans of like you know janet um mariah um you know coplay system over down all these different uh artists and yeah all of them have done problematic things janet jackson like you know did not think kamala harris i know and that was so heartbreaking problematic in her own way for sure yes that was heartbreaking i do have a hard time with it too i think You know, I do think that a lot of Madonna's Zionistic tendencies are due to the people she surrounds herself with. I don't think that that comes from her because she idolizes and worships James Baldwin.

30:47 And it's like, bitch, if you love James Baldwin this much, why don't you actually listen to the things he said, you know? And the both siding thing that, like you pointed out, she is so much that she is definitely a two sider kind of person is very disappointing. But there's a part of me that's grateful that it's at least not full on Zionism. Like she's not out there like Deborah Messing saying, like, kill all of them. You know, like there are degrees of Zionism. I don't think Madonna is the worst, but I agree that any degree of it is horrible and hard to reconcile as a fan. Like I have a friend of mine who we actually met because of Madonna and we used to go to all the concerts together.

31:28 And for my friend, that was a really hard line. She did not go to the celebration tour. She even actually she bought tickets and then she sold them. She got rid of them. And she will not listen to Madonna anymore. And honestly, I don't blame her. I really do understand people making that choice. Yeah. And it's also interesting because like this year I've been to a couple of concerts, spent a lot of good money. I spent it on Beyonce's Cowboy Carter tour. co-play one of them's co-plays um uh tour stadium tour and then system of a down oasis and you know grace jones yeah oh grace you saw grace jones i actually got to touch her hand she shook okay that's the i'd rather touch grace jones's hand than madonna's hand i i agree i agree i mean grace jones i was like hysterical um but like but like the beyonce co-play just even system of a down i mean they have done some very problematic things this year and i'm like Jesus Christ, like, I just spent all this money.

32:30 Even bands like Radiohead, even U2. Yes, I used to listen to Radiohead all the time. Like, Bono, who, I mean, I was never a big U2 fan, so it's not like it affects me. I used to be. But Bono used to be regarded as this, like, leader in terms of, like, human rights and political activism. And he's a fucking Zionist. Like, it's crazy. But he's also managed by Guy Ossiri. Ossiri, yes. And he is... I truly believe. And I think that he, you know, manipulates a lot of people, including the acts that he manages, manipulates them into getting on board with this horrific agenda, you know. But I do think that there's still a part of Madonna that can actually see what's happening for what it is, you know, but she is not doing nearly enough.

33:20 But yeah, I think that it, you know, you're saying that all of these artists that you love have done problematic things over the last couple of years. I think we all relate to that. Sometimes also silence can be very disappointing. You know, like when I look at someone who I love like Cher and Cher has always been so outspoken politically and hasn't said a word, you know what I mean? Like, where are you, bitch? You know, and it is very disappointing, but I think that it speaks to this bigger thing of celebrities are not leaders. No. And these are not people that we should be admiring or even emulating in terms of politics or anything like that.

34:06 They are entertainers and we can be entertained by them, but these are not... great people. These are people who live for themselves. The vast majority of them are egomaniacs. They only care about their own lives and their own pockets. And these are not, most of them are not people to be admired. We can have fun with them and we can be entertained by them, but they are not our leaders. We would like them to be. We would like to think that The money that we put in, you know, to these artists. But I think that there is a big difference between a true artist and a corporate entity.

34:50 And sometimes there's some overlap. You know what I mean? And Madonna is someone, I think, who's had a lot of overlap. But at the end of the day, she's a corporate entity. Taylor Swift is the most perfect example of that. You know, like... I mean, there is artistry in the sense that she's writing stuff, but it's not groundbreaking. It's not meaningful. And she does not use her massive platform for any kind of collective good whatsoever. Mm-hmm. Yeah, like... So it's like, go ahead, enjoy those songs, but don't pretend that she's something that she's not. Like, it kind of drives me crazy when people act like she's some sort of... Savior, yeah. Savior.

35:30 Like, no, she's just an entertainer, and that's fine. But just call it what it is. Exactly. I mean, you're a 36-year-old woman acting like a white girl writing teenage songs that you profited off very well. Good for you for doing that. But it's also funny because she's the same age as Adele. She's only three years younger than Lady Gaga. I mean, both of them are immensely more talented in my humble opinion. Oh, absolutely. did you see mayhem did you see the mayhem tour no because she didn't come to montreal but i'm going in the spring it was amazing but even lady gaga i have to admit i'm like disappointed by you know like i'm excited to see the show she is an amazing talent and again we can be entertained by these people but like you know when she first came out i was so obsessed with her and in some ways like without sounding over dramatic like she did kind of change my life honestly Just in terms of like giving me the strength to just genuinely be myself.

36:29 And I'll sort of always be grateful to her for that. But like, you know, in these last couple of years, she doesn't really say anything that matters. You know, like she's up in her tower like the rest of them. Yeah. And what were your thoughts on Mariah Carey's new Christmas commercial with Sephora? Oh, God. I mean, like, it's so funny because like every but for the last three, four years now, we always get her like November 1st video announcing the holiday season, which is bullshit. And I still remember and there the footage exists. It is out there. You can find it. Before this became such a thing with social media, you know, like we're talking maybe 10 years ago when people would ask Mariah about Christmas, even she herself would say she never listens to Christmas music before December 1st.

37:17 You know, which... Who the hell wants to listen to Christmas music before December 1st? Not me. But I think Mariah's just like... And I understand that she's making a ton of money off of this song every single year. It's crazy how much money she makes from this Christmas side of her business. It's almost the entire business at this point, to be honest. But I think it has tarnished her legacy because I think that Mariah is a genuinely genius songwriter. And... It's so overshadowed by all the tacky Christmas crap. Yeah, and also I think what she did with that commercial, it's like it came at a horrible time when Sephora was kind of making fun of the general public about like, oh yeah, we're going on boycott.

38:03 The elves are going on boycott. And what that actually relates to is that people are losing their benefits, the SNAP benefits, and people are going hungry. And things are getting super expensive right now. So it's like bad timing. It's very tone deaf. It's very tone deaf. But you know what? It's very Marie Antoinette, let them eat cake. Yes, but there's so, it's not just Mariah, that Marie Antoinette vibe that you're talking about. is so across the board right now. People are so tone deaf. Even yesterday or two days ago, JLo has a new corporate endorsement. She's working for this diamond company now.

38:44 I'm like, bitch, let's go away. She does not know how to go away. She just doubles down when we don't mind. She just doubles down. But do these people seriously need to be making more money? Come on, you guys. Do something radical. Do something important. Do something meaningful. Stop selling us shit that we don't need. Right, exactly. Do I need, like, another version of Taylor's albums? Taylor Swift's CD, like, another vinyl cover, a different cover of it? Like, no, I don't... But it's just funny that with Mariah, like, you know, again, her, like, you know, new or relatively new tradition of the November 1st video, like, the last few years, like, they weren't monetized.

39:25 Like, she just made them, you know? But now it's like, oh, we can't even do this thing just for fun. We have to get money for it, you know? It's like... Yeah, like you said, it's just really, really tone deaf. Even Taylor Swift, I think that like, that's a big, like, it's interesting to see. It's not necessarily a backlash, but people losing interest because her last album, which I didn't listen to, but I read reviews and I read some of the lyrics, like also speaks to that just total tone deafness. You know, like running around with like what a $5 million engagement ring or however much it costs, like as if we're all supposed to be happy for you. Like, like when you said so many of us are struggling just to stay alive, like read the room, bitch.

40:09 Do you think that people have had enough of supporting big music artists these days? Do you think this is the end of the celebrity standing coach or the beginning of the end of standing culture? Um, that's such a great question and genuinely something I talk to my friends a lot about. I think it's sort of twofold. I do think that the age of, like, the big celebrity, like, monoculture is over because... Everything is niche now, you know, everyone's on their phones. They're only seeing things that the algorithm is presenting them with. If you do not have curiosity about what exists outside of your own interests and seek that out, you will never be shown it, you know.

40:53 So whereas like what? I was a kid in the 90s and like, you know, when I wanted to hear a song, I had to listen to the radio for like an hour just to hear the one song that I wanted to hear. And in that time, I would learn about all the other songs that were out. And so like, I would actually know the songs that I hate as much as I knew the songs that I love, which I think is a really good thing. I think it's a bad thing when you're just in an echo chamber 24 seven. But I just think that now everything is so fractured and divided that that big celebrity culture is over. And I do think a lot of people are really turned off by the sort of tone deafness of these big celebrities.

41:37 Like I think people think it's bullshit. I think they see all of these big celebrities as like Marie Antoinette kind of figures. I really do think so. But then at the same time, with the death of that sort of mainstream celebrity monoculture, there's now the birth of like influencer culture and you have people presenting themselves as like life coaches or gurus. And they have so much influence over people's lives when they don't know shit about anything. And that's extremely dangerous. And through that, obviously we've seen like the propagation of false news and how dangerous that is.

42:19 I it's it's bad all around. You know, I don't think the loss of celebrity culture is a bad thing. I actually think it's a good thing. I do not think that we should be idolizing these people. But I also think the rise of the influencer culture is a very bad thing as well. In what ways have you channeled your energy from these big artists? For me, I'm looking to invest more in the indie artists or spend more time touching grass these days. Honestly, after I have I have spent a lot of money the last three years on concerts. I've spent so much money on concerts and like CDs and records in my life.

43:03 Merch. I don't even want to know how much money I've spent over the last 20 years. I don't even want to. I don't even want to know. But I really do love pop culture, you know, and my taste in music. I hate to admit it, does skew very mainstream. Like, I like mainstream pop, you know? But to be honest, like, I kind of listen to the same artists that I've been listening to since I was 12, you know? Like, every now and then there is a new artist that comes around that I really like. Like, for example, I really love Addison Rae's album. And I never thought that I would ever love like an album from someone like her.

43:43 And like, you know, I've heard that she has like an IDF soldier boyfriend and that really turns me off. And like, you know, there was even a part of me because I love the album so much that like I wanted to like go get the vinyl. But I'm like, why? There's no need to support this bitch financially. I'm like, I can just listen to the songs and that's fine. So I think that for me, it's more like, it's not necessarily the music that I'm listening to is changing. It's more just that like my attitude towards it is changing. And I don't want to give these bitches my money anymore. You know, even with Madonna, like on the celebration tour, I almost didn't go. And, you know, back in the day, like I would try to get like the best ticket possible.

44:25 But now when I buy tickets to concerts, I'm actually looking for the cheapest ticket possible. I don't care where I'm sitting. You know, I just want to be there, but I don't want to spend a lot of money. So like, yeah, I'm definitely like cutting back on that. And most of the music that I buy, like I do, I do still love physical media. Like I love the artwork on albums. So like I have a big vinyl collection and CD collection and I still love those things. But I would say that like 90% of the stuff that I buy is from like used record stores. So it's more going to my local businesses. That money's not going to them. They don't need my money anymore.

45:06 Yeah. And I also know that Beyonce does not need my money anymore. Absolutely not. Because the merch, I have lost so much on the merch. It's so expensive. $100 for a program, mind you, for Renaissance. Yeah, no, it's crazy. It makes no sense. And also like that reminds me of like, cause you know, sometimes I'll make little Instagram videos that talk about some of the things that you and I are talking about right now and fans can get really defensive about their favorite artists. Like they cannot handle criticism of their favorite artists, which is really embarrassing for them. Yes. But, like, in my mind, I'm always like, these billionaires do not need your help.

45:46 Like, they are not struggling. And even if some random bitch in Montreal hates Taylor Swift, she's not hurting for it. Trust me. She doesn't need you to defend. They don't know you. And no billionaire needs your defense. Like, please get real. Yeah. You know, when I was a kid and someone would say something bad about Madonna, I would kind of take it personally because I was a kid and I wrapped up so much of my identity in my fandom. But like, I was a kid, you know, like I am thankful that like I've been able to make a life for myself that is not exclusively about being someone's fan. yeah i think for next year i'm kind of like thinking there's not really many concerts i want to go to anymore like i feel like i've already done my damage it's like okay you know i need to like start focusing and shifting other things you know yeah but i feel it's important i think the only concert i would really want to go to rumor has it i hope it stays i hope it's true it would be sade i would literally oh well that would be really worth seeing I would go to that too, because I think that if you get a chance to see the legends, you have to go.

46:56 Yes. Like I had a chance, like George Michael came to Montreal in 2006 on his like greatest hits tour. But I didn't know that would be his last tour, you know, and I was more of a casual fan, so I didn't go. But like, I think that even if you're not the biggest fan, when it comes to the legends, you have to go. Yeah. Yeah, I agree, because that's what I've been doing a lot of. I'm seeing Paul McCartney at the end of this month. I know he's going to be in his 80s. I saw Paul Simon earlier this year, and he's 80 years old. That's amazing. Yeah, you have to see them. Yeah, it's kind of wild, but for me, it's kind of like, it's my old childhood soundtrack that I'm trying to understand.

47:39 This is the last time I'll probably ever see them, and this is their way of sunsetting from this movie. Honestly, concerts are truly my biggest joy. I love going to a concert, especially of an artist who means something to me. It's just really such a shame that it's become so unbelievably expensive. It has been. It is truly... I don't think it's justifiable, to be honest. At a certain point, it's like, you know... dial back on some of the production value. And cause we just want to see you, you know, like we just want to see the artist. So like, if it means putting together a more simple stage, then just do that, you know?

48:23 And Mariah Carey, just do meet and crease instead of touring because I don't think she, it's kind of hard to watch her. It's hard to watch. Cause I'm also like, why is she doing this to herself? Like she has enough money that she does not need to be performing if she's not well enough to be performing. Yeah, and I'm like, just stick to the main place. To me, that would be like the best part of being rich is that like, you don't have to work as much. Right, right. So I don't know what that's trying to, what she's trying to say. I really don't know. I really don't know. Unless someone is like putting a gun to her head, it's like, you gotta make money for us too. I'm sure there's part of that. Yes, I do think that's part of it. And sometimes I also believe that these celebrities are not as rich in reality as they are on paper.

49:09 so i think there's some of that going on as well yeah and i think like i'm hearing like um shirley manson from garbage said that she's gonna stop touring in the u.s yeah i love her so much yeah and you know i love her too i think she's been very outspoken yes has also said well you know guys like everything touring is so expensive like you know there's like in the arts like they're barely like yeah barely a fourth thing in motels you know yeah no it's hard laundry and it's like this is not the life i mean streaming unfortunately spotify is being the evil empire that it is as well as awful yeah like literally just nickel and diming artists and songwriters i know yeah i know it's it's all very bleak honestly but i would you know I really do profoundly believe that the arts is our humanity and to live in an artless society or culture would be death.

50:09 And it's really tragic that the arts are not protected and valued in the way that they should be because we are nothing without the arts. And I would say especially the live performing arts, which bring us together face to face to have a human collective experience. Like it is so important. I wholeheartedly agree. And as we wrap up, what are the things that you're doing for yourself to wrap up this year as you head into 20, as you head into 2026 or as we head into 2026? Yeah. I mean, Oh God, that's such a good question.

50:49 I do feel run down and burned out. Yeah. So I would like to ideally take the month of December and even January, like as relaxed as possible. Like I'm a freelance artist, you know, so like, it's always scary. It's like the beginning of every year, I'm always like, how am I going to survive this year? You know, like literally every year for me starts with like a kind of existential crisis, but somehow things always do work out knock on wood. And I think that I need to give myself like a little time to regenerate and recharge, you know, because I do feel like this year, like for many of us has just taken a lot out of me.

51:33 And I really just want to spend time and hang out with my friends. That's literally the number one thing that I want and need right now. Yeah, and I just want to say thank you so much, Traynor, for being on my show. And it's such a pleasure talking and kicking about today's pop culture because it's been on my mind for the last few months. I think ever since my end of summer concerts and having to deal with what... I think when Beyonce was out with the questioners, that was like, okay. Oh my God, I know. I was like, okay, well, this confirms it. This confirms everything. She really doesn't have a spine.

52:15 No, not at all. That was extreme. I mean, I'm not the biggest Beyonce fan, so it's not like it was a big blow to me personally. But like, I, yeah, that, you can't unsee that, you know? And like, if Madonna had been in that position, I don't know if I could really listen to her anymore. Like, it'd be hard, you know? It'd be... i don't know it's so fucking complicated to like separate the art from the artist right right absolutely especially music because music is so personal absolutely it's it's a life it's a soundtrack for us yeah and that's yeah and that's what's so important and yeah i can't wait to see what you do elsewhere and i also hope that you still have time to finish the jay shitty interview with madonna i'm just joking Oh, I am not watching the second half of that when she's joined by the Kabbalah director or whatever his name is.

53:03 I am not. Life is too short, okay? All right.