2000s Favorite Tunes Pt. 2: The Chill-Out Chronicles

0:04 Hey, everyone. So I am back again with Anjali Misra. And I just want to say that, you know, we were going about a good two plus hours. So if you had survived through the first two hours, we thank you very much for staying in and tuning in. And I hope that this has been a good way to, you know, decompress from all the... wild, unpredictable, crazy crap we've been putting up with in America right now and also what's been going on globally. So I hope that this serves as a good escape, a temporary escape for the moment before we have to find ways to navigate our own care. So I hope that you are doing your best to navigate and Gave yourself a lot of grace in this very challenging time.

0:49 And so we left off at number 18, Summer Boy Lady Gaga. You know, this was a peculiar pick for me because there's obviously so many Lady Gaga songs that I could really pick from, whether it's Poker Face, Telephone, Alejandro, the songs from her last album. But I chose Summer Boy because one, it's underlooked. It came from the first album, and I felt like it was so... forgotten until she brought it back to the Mayhem tour a couple months ago. And I can't tell you that my old 20-something-year-old self was so excited when I heard that song live.

1:33 I mean, there's something that's very special when you see an artist that have a long catalog, and the next thing you know, they play a song that you haven't heard in, like, live in so many years. And there's something special about that nostalgia. So... Interestingly enough about that beginning of Lady Gaga era when she came out around 2008, she opened up for Pussycat Dolls. She even opened up for New Kids on the Block. Isn't that something? It's just weird. The New Kids on the Block, I can't. I can't, like, put my finger around that one. Because New Kids on the Buck, by that point, were already into their legacy act.

2:14 You know, the reunion. And, you know, now they're probably playing in some, you know, small theater show. Or, you know, connected with other Odie's acts. But Lady Gaga, like, this is before stardom. This is before her name became, like, an everyday... Everyday... uh common name in pop culture so yeah what are your thoughts about lady gaga's legacy but also what do you remember about lady gaga when she first came out and how do you feel about her music over the last 15 16 years yeah um i just like so appreciate you digging up this, like you said, it's sort of a deep cut.

2:58 It's sort of this like, you know, underappreciated gem from her whole, you know, body of work. And so, yeah, I was like, when I saw this on your list, I felt especially like, Oh, yeah, this is like an underrated song. And wow, it brought me back because I remember being, you know, like she she was on like one of those like tiny like 11am stages at Lollapalooza. Oh, yes. 2008. And like, you know, had to do her own costuming and her own like makeup and her own like hair and choreography.

3:38 I wasn't at her particular. I was at Lala in 2008, but I wasn't at her like particular performance. But I remember, like, seeing her on the list and being like, oh, wow, this, like, underground, like, club girl is, like, making her way. Wow, good for her. And now fast forward, you know, like, whatever, like, 18-plus years, it's like, wow, oh, my God, like, everything's changed. And so, yeah, like, this, like, really... uh like summer boy takes me back to like early lady gaga um and i don't know i think because like i feel like in a lot of ways like those early 2000s like late 90s early 2000s like pop divas because i grew up with them i i have like this maybe misplaced but like weird sense of um like sisterhood with them where I'm like oh I grew up with them and so um like seeing their highs and lows and like seeing their shit in the tabloids and seeing like you know just like um their like live foibles and interviews gone wrong interviews gone well um I don't know, for better or worse, like, I grew up with these people.

5:03 Like, I grew up with Lady Gaga. And so, yeah, I don't know. It feels like, upon reflection, like, seeing her career where it's at now, I feel like a lot of, like, like, I'm proud of her, you know? Like, it could have gone so many different ways, right? Could have gone... could have gone sideways um and certainly like as humans like we we like have our tragedy tragedies we have our like personal dramas and things like that but when you are a pop icon it's all um on display so for her i think um she has like weathered it with a lot of grace and um you know, whether that is a testament to, I think it's a combination of things, right?

5:53 It's a combination of like her being like a grounded person and like, maybe like surrounding herself with like really good people. And, and also like being lucky, quite frankly, to be surrounded by good people because you could be like Brittany and like, not be surrounded by good people just because like that's your family and like you can't choose your family and that kind of thing um and so yeah i think about that a lot when it comes to lady gaga of like you know you're you are special you're talented um but in a lot of ways it was a combination of like talent luck and timing so yeah Yeah, I mean, this was really my first official time seeing Lady Gaga last year with the man bar.

6:45 It was such a phenomenal show. I mean, I think that I get very particular when it comes to seeing live performers and she fits the bill along with the Beyonce's, the Madonna's of the world that not only have like a long catalog, but can really, that really know how to turn an arena stadium show, like use every inch of it, you know, you know, thinking about the spectacle of nature of it all, you know. while not losing the intimacy with the fans, which Gaga's known to do. She tries to be very personable, which is a very hard thing to do these days, especially in this day and age, when you see Chaparron pushing back hard about the fame, when you look at Britney Spears and the consequences that she's had to deal with.

7:38 I say to me, she's one of the few... current pop stars that are still elevating their game and keeping themselves very current and she's going to be a fixture for in the many years to come you know and when she hits when she hits the legacy circuit era of her uh of her career so yeah um let's go to the next one So 19 would be Losing You by Solange. Now, you know, Solange has always been kind of an enigma, you know, musically speaking. She's always been kind of under the surface, has to live under the shadow of Beyonce, her famous older sister. But Solange, over the years, has become a very highly credible indie artist and has made some incredible albums, even though it's been kind of a while since she's released any new music.

8:33 But Losing You, to me, this goes back to 2012, I believe. And even though the lyrics are very sad and it's about a breakup, It is such an upbeat, uplifting song. And it's one of the few uplifting, upbeat or uptempo Solange songs because most of her songs are very chill. It's very neo-soul. But every time I would hear that song, this gets played up on my radio in my car stereo to a ton. And it's such a joyful song for me to like, to really take in. And yeah, I feel like Solange is one of those artists that is severely under looked in terms of what she has really put out artistically, but also at the same time, she has proven that she can step outside of her shadow, outside of her own sister's shadow.

9:35 there's a lot to be said that she is in her own lane and that she does not feel like she has to rely on her older sister to carry her. I think Solange is a person that really stands on her own. And this song itself is a masterpiece. And the music video is... is beautifully done um i have seen the live performances of that song and boy you know you know her dancing and the way she's in sync with her uh band yeah i love it all of it yeah um i had no notes on this choice and the list.

10:17 I was like, I like have my notes in front of me and all I, all I put was agreed. Great. I just feel the same way. Like, I think that this is, yeah, really standout song from her, her whole, again, her whole body of work is so, I don't know. She, there's almost a freedom in being like in the shadow of like someone in your family who is more famous than you. Like, I feel like she had then the creative freedom to do a lot of things that like maybe Beyonce couldn't do.

10:59 And she took that and ran with it. And so, you know, I think about like, I hate to say this, but yeah, I do love Solange's work more than Beyonce. You're not the only one. Oh, you're not the only one that said that. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, I just feel like, again, you know, we, we can't control like our birth order or whatever, like anything like that. I'm also, I'm a little sister. So like, I also feel a lot of affinity for Solange, like constantly being compared to like your older sibling or like, you know, like we didn't choose it um you know and I like I love my sister and like we have a very close close relationship but um you know it's something to be said about like how Solange like you know um because I'm thinking about like you see these like videos online right of like um the the Knowles family like doing choreography in the living room and they're always like solange and beyonce having to do choreography together and like solange is littler than beyonce so like she's not as you know her brain is still developing so she's not as like able to like do the choreography as well um and so yeah i just think about like if you're growing up and like watching your older sister like join destiny's child become a fucking global sensation and then you

12:33 yourself are like well, I want to be an artist. Like, what does that look like for her? And so I think that like, she brought as much grace and humility as she could to her craft. And like, I don't know, man. I hate to say it, but I feel like I respect Solange more than I respect Beyonce. No, I mean, I'm not going to let the beehive attack you like that. But honestly, I think that this is a person who has really... cemented herself uh especially in her lane and and what she has done where she has contributed and also like when i think of sibling rivalry i think of janet and michael jackson and and when i think of janet like i you know i haven't said it very often but i really do believe she's a better dancer than her brother um i know that people will you know um have their pitchforks right now as we speak especially with the Michael Jackson movie coming out but I feel like that with Janet she puts in more effort into her choreography Michael's is more memorable but Janet's a lot on technicality it's it's incredibly difficult to master I mean how can you master rhythm nation how can you master the if choreography how can you master a lot of the wild you know, techniques that she has put up for years.

14:01 So yes. And also I prefer her discography a lot more than her brother, you know, which, you know, not everyone's gonna like that opinion, but I hold to that. So, but nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with it. Here we are. And the next one would be Humble by Kendrick Lamar. Now talk about a banger, talk about raising the volume up. And, you know, Kendrick, you know, for the past 15, 16 years has really been one of the most respected and critically acclaimed MCs, you know. I mean, there are old heads that have, you know, said that he's not on the level of Tupac nor Notorious B.I.G., or some of those folks and you know what it's hard to compare that especially since tupac notorious big um died very early in their career but for kendrick he uh fortunately for all of us he is still here and he's still thriving um you know like when i think of when people think of kendrick lamar they think of his beef with drake and his infamous not like us song which you know, has won many awards and probably put the nail in Drake's coffin at this time, you know, unless Drake comes out as a vampire and tries to stay alive, which I hope.

15:19 he stays in that coffin. Um, and, but when I think of Humbo, I just, yeah. I mean, I remember Kelly Clarkson did a really good cover of that too. And I was like, man, Kelly's got some, uh, she's got some, uh, rhythm on this one too. Cause she's always about the Kelly Yoki, you know, she's, she's really good at karaoke people's songs. And I'm like, okay, that's a credit, but she was also American Idol winner. So if that hits, um, But, you know, Kendrick has made some very socially conscious music over the years and and oftentimes has been overlooked by the Grammys, especially for the big awards until the most recent album cycle.

16:00 And I feel like he's now getting his full dues. You know, he's been he's performed on the Super Bowl halftime show once but twice, actually. And And I've learned that Humbo, this came out under the album Damn in 2017. It was a number one charting single in the Billboard Top 100. Fun fact, that beat was actually originally made for Gucci Mane and Kendrick decided to keep it. And I'm like, wow, I cannot believe that this song was about to, that this music was about to go to Gucci Mane of all people. And I'm so glad that Kendrick kept it and knew what to do with that song.

16:41 yeah wow I that's surprising to hear yeah for sure um yeah I I agree so so for me Kendrick is someone who there were like too many top singles to choose from um for like my personal whatever you know like of the century, like, top Kendrick songs. I'm glad you included this one. It is in my, like, top ten best Kendrick songs. Like, no doubt, you know, no dispute there at all. It's an obvious standout, single, obviously accolades, billboard charting, et cetera, et cetera.

17:28 And... Yeah, I just think that... I don't know. He is someone who... Yeah. I'm glad. Like you said, I think you really like... I think you really hit the nail on the head by saying like... We've had a lot of these like legends like come and go. And... To say that, like, we've had Kendrick for so long. Like, that's something to be said, right?

18:09 And, like, he's part of this legacy and, like, this ancestry of hip-hop and rap. And, like... I'm thinking about like how there was like the 50th anniversary of hip hop that was commemorated at the Super Bowl. Was it like two years ago or like a year ago? About four years ago, I think now. I mean. Oh, maybe more than that. I don't know. What is time? I know. I know. But yeah, like that was a really special moment where I was like, damn, like. I've been a lad 37 years and like, I've like watched this progression of like this, this industry and this genre of music coming up and like hearing, like hearing like 90s rap growing up and then like sort of like, yeah, the evolution of like early 2000s and then like seeing Kendrick come up and like, I don't know, it feels special to be like a part of that and to be like a listener and a fan and, um, Yeah.

19:12 Also, part of me feels a little bit sad that the feuds continue. I understand. I actually have been thinking a lot about this recently, about the fact that these feuds exist for a reason. I think part of it is a way to air out grievances that otherwise would be co-opted and like um uh what's the word um tucked under the rug by white supremacist capitalist bureaucracy um because like at the end of the day these record labels are owned by like these white capitalists and, and, and have been for the last like 50 years or more.

20:06 And so, you know, I was, I was watching like the Diddy documentary and I was watching about how like, you know, folks got bought out and folks got like undermined by these like massive record labels and, it created this very volatile culture where a lot of bad behavior was excused and certain, certain bad behavior was excused and certain bad behavior was punished. And I feel like if you fast forward, whatever, 30, 40 years to now, like I feel like newer, younger rappers are not like allowing that to happen.

20:50 Like to a certain extent, they're like, no, we're going to air our grievances in public. And, like, we're not going to let people... Yeah, we're going to be, like, a little bit realer about what's happening behind the scenes. So, I don't know. I don't know if that's, like, a good take or a bad take. I don't know. That's my take. So, yeah. Yeah, and I think... Like, I'm proud of Kendrick Lamar. Yeah, I mean, I'm really glad that he, you know, especially since... where hip-hop is now, I feel like he's been really carrying that torch. And I don't really see too many people that are up and coming.

21:32 I mean, I could be very wrong. Maybe it's me being an old head that has kind of been stuck in the air in the past. But I feel like his name comes up so often. I mean, I got to see his tour with SZA last year, and It was such a beautiful spectacle. I don't really attend many hip-hop concerts, let alone in arenas or stadiums, I should say. It was at Soldier Field. And, you know, like, it's not common for hip-hop artists to perform in that size of an arena because of what it requires and also the stage, the staging. And, like, when you're performing in an arena, you got to have, like, all the bells and whistles.

22:13 But it was done really well. I mean... I mean, really enjoyed it. And yeah, let's go to the next one. Another hip hop legend, OutKast. I chose the song Roses, which came from the Speakerbox's Love Below album in 2003. You know, this song had, hey, I like the way you move. And this was also a double solo album that Andre 3000 and Big Boy made on their own, but combined it as a double album. And this album has been like such a pop cultural phenomenon.

22:53 I mean, you know, you see the turn that OutKast was making with their music, you know, with each progression. specifically with Andre 3000, where he was becoming more tapping into his different curiosities. He's a fellow Gemini and he has been a person who has never been afraid to really be bold artistically and also what he does with his fashion statements, his creative side projects he's been working on. um you know outcast has been away from you know touring and from making music for oh well over a decade and you know andre 3000 came back with his flute album like about two years ago i fortunately was able to meet him in person for a q a when he was promoting his jazz or his flute album i should say and I saw a very different Andre 3000 who was very introspective, cerebral, incredibly thoughtful.

23:58 I asked him two questions. I know one of them was about his creativity and how does he find inspiration to tap into and like he said like yeah like anywhere i touch anywhere i go i feel like there's something that i need to tap into you know like that there's curiosity that i need to look after and this is a person who's very unconcerned about what his old fans think and he's very unconcerned about what his peers think A lot of his own hip hop peers were pretty much confused by his decision to do a flute album and then followed by a piano album. And like, are you ever going to come back to MC?

24:40 And I think that that really tells you about his own progression. He's a person who was on his way to being 50 years old. And we were talking about how there are hip hop artists that have unfortunately died well before they were even 40. besides Tupac and Tori Spig you know think about Nipsey Hussle you you know you think of other um hip-hop artists that have died very early and Andre 3000 I feel like has a whole different like um a different pivot in his life that's quite something to behold but when we get back to the song Roses you know like Heyo was overplayed I mean this song was like crossing over like beyond just you know the hip-hop station actually a lot of hip-hop stations didn't care for that song but pop and even rock stations were picking that song up and it was like um a global smash hit that you really couldn't get away from and um But Roses was a song that I felt like was under luck.

25:43 It was one of the last, like, real collaborations, like, last real hits that OutKast had together. And, you know, it's a song that's about, you know, being joked by a lover. You know, it has some misogynistic elements to it. Let's just be very fair here. But, yeah, I... I mean, I love the video. Paul Abdul played the choreographer in that music video. And, you know, it is one of my favorite karaoke songs to sing these days. Nice. And, you know, Big Boy, on the other hand, you know, he's an Aquarius, you know, and he's a cultural entrepreneur. He recently, you know, joined a tour with Kid Cudi.

26:25 So in Outkast, you know, they became, I think they were in the Hall of Fame as of last year. So right now, like, do you think Outkast will ever come back to make music or to tour again? Personally, as a fan, I would love to see that. I wish I got to see them. perform like in 2014 when I had the chance, but you never know, but I get the vibe that, you know, Andre 3000 is like in a different lane in his life. And I think big boy, uh, respectively is doing other things, you know, to fill his time and fill his creativity. So yeah. What are your thoughts about outcasts, you know, over the years and how have you looked at their music, you know, for the past 15, 20 years?

27:09 Yeah. Yeah, no, I, um, I agreed, would love to see them do any kind of reunion, any kind of touring, you know, grew up listening to their to their music and totally like agree, like they totally earned that. the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction. I watched the induction ceremony and it was like really fucking cool, like really powerful, quite frankly, because they are, they're like pioneers of the genre and they're so talented, like Big Boy and Andre 3000, like super fucking talented.

27:52 Yeah, just have admired their work like all of my life and as like an avid music fan. And I, yeah, I get where they're at, like, whatever. Creatively, I think that, like, because I follow them, like, you know, on social media, I think that, like, they're at a place where they're doing their own thing. Like, Big Boy is, you know, he's producing. Well, he's been producing all this time, but... is like more committed to that. And then like, you know, Andre has all of these like other projects and like productions that he's, he's a part of in projects.

28:40 And so I respect that. I think like, again, it's this like millennial nostalgia in me. That's like, Oh, I would love to see a reunion tour and like selfishly. But I've also had like bad experiences with things like that where I saw like I saw Bob Dylan when I was a teenager. Oh, no. I'm sorry. Yeah. thank you you get it you totally i have never seen him but a lot of people have complained about him like he'll go on for three hours and just kind of mumble and jumble for like that long and you don't even know where this is going you know but i'm curious about your experience with bob dylan as a teenager of all things you just said it randy like yeah that was the experience i had all of this built up uh anticipation and optimism and like oh this is gonna be this like watershed moment for me as a young person who like you know like I dabbled in like playing guitar and like songwriting and I have grown up like um singing all like as a hobby all of my life and so as a teen I was like and you know like I took my little brother like oh my gosh because he played summer fest in Milwaukee um and like that's where we grew up so I was like oh we're gonna go and it's gonna be this incredible like whatever like coming of age experience it was not it was like

30:10 Yeah, it was really, again, the mumbling and the incoherent. We didn't know what song we were listening to until halfway through the song. Wow. Yeah, that's how bad he was. He probably wasn't making any eye contact with the audience. He does not strike me as a person who likes to engage. No. He was in his 70s at the time, and now he's in his 80s. And so, God forbid, we don't even know. where he's at and he's still performing which is weird but anyway so that like scarred me for life from seeing my heroes oh dear so now i'm like do i need to see the outcast i love them i've loved them all my life let's leave it at that let me not have things ruined by potentially seeing them live and being disappointed What I would end up doing is, like, in these cases, I would like to see how the tour is going before I'd be like, okay, I'll throw down, you know?

31:09 Be like, okay, I will watch carefully. I will watch what people are seeing. I will watch YouTube clips just to kind of get an idea of what I'm getting because, yeah, I have seen, like, you know, sometimes I've been mesmerized by a lot of our Millennium nostalgia acts that are reuniting as much as I cannot stand, you know, Brian and Nick Carter from the Backstreet Boys, which they're two really awful human beings, which I will not get into. That's another episode. Yes. But they are having their phenomenon with the reunion tour in Las Vegas at the Spear. Yeah.

31:51 But then you look at, say, 98 degrees, for example. And I don't know if you have seen, though, that it's pretty cringe. It's a whole nother cringe level. It's like, wow, this is really bad. And I don't know if I could sit through this, you know, to watch like some of your own favorite acts. not be able to grace the stage like they used to. And I think that there's some grace to that that we should give. Like, look, you know, a person in their 50s or 60s are not going to perform what they were in their 20s or 30s. Of course. However, like, there is a sense of, like, okay, well, what kind of show are you going to put on, you know? Is it going to be more personable?

32:32 You know, I have seen many older acts. I mean, Paul McCartney, you know, performed, like, nearly three hours, like, a couple months ago when I saw him. Yeah. and still as charming and affable as ever. Like he is very talkative and my God, he didn't even take a break. Wow. Which amazes me. Paul Simon came out of retirement, you know, and he has a hearing problem and he's deaf in one ear now. And, but he, but he's also the same age as Paul McCartney. He was in his eighties and, you know, it was a beautiful acoustic set and a very heartfelt set that he made. And then I look at, you know, you know, Janet and Madonna, like they're, like their choreography isn't what they used to be, but they can still put on a very fascinating show.

33:17 They can bring on a lot of nostalgia to that, like songs that we haven't heard in a while and, and bring more excitement, bring new life to these songs. So, you know, but then there's those like, you know, Mariah Carey is a person that I love watching, but I don't know if I could see her tour. Like, I think that she's really been struggling. And also I feel like she doesn't need to at this stage. Um, But yeah, it's kind of, it's like you have to kind of weigh and see where they're at in their career. And also how our fans looking at before you'd be like, okay, I'm going to invest like $200, spend this night and watch them perform for better, for worse, you know?

33:59 Yeah. So next one, Toxicity by System of a Down, you know? I never thought I would be into System of Down coming out of high school. And I was entering college in 2001 when I saw the video to Toxicity on MTV. And I was so mesmerized by that video. I mean, Serge Tankin, the lead singer, the lead front man, he had this devilish stare in his eyes. And that was something that I was so fixated on when I would see that video. And it was something that I had never heard before, you know?

34:39 Like, the intense, like, it goes from a very slow ballad, you know, very singy-songy. And next thing you know, it goes into, like, furious, like, 20-second run. And then it slows down for, like, another 30 seconds. And it's unpredictable. It's very energetic. It's political. It's... it's the kind of music that I have always respected from them. I think System of a Down, you know, comes from a very anti genocide voice for many years, specifically since, you know, Serge's ancestors were you know, victims of the Armenian genocide over a hundred years ago.

35:22 And this is something that their music, that they would bring out time and time again. I saw System of a Down last summer for the reunion tour. And, you know, a lot of people were commenting about how Serge's voice has really grown weaker by the years because of the intensity of his voice that, you know, that has now kind of like been strained over the years of touring and the kind of music that he does and in getting older too um but it was so just as entertaining it was still just as fun i mean luckily i was not on the floor because you know being on the floor of a system of down show is something i would never go anywhere near um i know i'm too old It's horrifyingly scary.

36:12 I don't think I could ever do that. I mean, I would look at these videos, I'm like, absolutely not. So I was in the seats. I was perfectly up in the seats, and it was fun. It was safe for me that way. But then, you know, they have, like, some of the members have really taken a turn. One of their drum, well, their drummer apparently is a MAGA. And then his second guy, Darren, um... who also plays the backing vocals, he kind of went on a tirade against a couple of his fans on Instagram over the Charlie Kirk. And he called himself the far middle. And he was really fighting with his fans about it.

36:54 And I'm like, what the hell do you mean far middle? And Serge has been the only one that I think is still, I guess, political on the left side. But I don't know what happened. I really don't understand what happened to them to make this kind of a pivot, you know, like their music, their fan base, you know, is very progressive. The messaging, anti genocide, I mean, Serge has been you know, pro-Palestine in the past. So I wonder how Serge must be feeling now with his band, because like, you know, his drummer is married to his sister.

37:39 So I bet that there were some interesting dinner conversations, I'm sure. Yeah, in-laws. Yeah, I mean, I know that Serge has never been interested in like reuniting over the years. Maybe that's why. I mean, again, I don't want to speculate, but I kind of wonder... what the future looks like for that band, especially when there is some very strong political divisions. Like, I mean, this is not the first band that's gone through something like that. Pink Floyd is another one too. Roger Waters has a famous fight with David Gilmour and Roger Waters is famously political and also pro-Palestine in his work too.

38:20 So yeah, that's on System of a Down. Wow. Okay. Do you mind if we take a quick break? I have to refill my water and I have a lot of, I want to gather my thoughts because I have a lot to say. And I think it was also culture shock, like shock there too that I just gave you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. But yeah, like what are your thoughts about System of a Down? And I know you're processing this shock as I'm telling you about the political turn of some of its members. Yeah. Yeah, unfortunate to hear that members of this band who I think like, again, like I grew up listening to and like feeling very attached to like their outspoken progressive politics and like, you know, quite frankly, like their radical politics, hearing that their whatever, for whatever reason, like folks have taken a turn, um, is like frustrating and disappointing to say the very least.

39:32 Um, I think that, yeah, I, I don't know. I, yeah, like as a teen, um, definitely listened to this album and, that, I forget the name of the, I think that, was the album called Toxicity? No, it was. I know, I keep thinking it's Chop Suey, but I keep thinking it's Chop Suey, but gosh, let me look this up, because I am drawing a blank at the moment, and I feel like I really should notice, especially since I also listen to them quite a bit. Yeah. Let's see. Oh, Oh, it's actually Toxicity.

40:20 You are correct. It is Toxicity in 2001. They had a debut album in 1998, which is their self-titled. Okay. Yeah. So I'm trying to piece my past together as we're talking. But in 2001, I was a 12-year-old kid. I was in middle school. Yeah. fucking 9-11 happened um it was like the bush administration i was like a brown kid in a predominantly white um literally like 99.9 percent white conservative christian my goodness borderline rural suburban neighborhood in like wisconsin wow And so the only outlet and then like this was pre like this was like the dawning of the Internet.

41:23 And so there was no like social media and there were no cell phones. And so like the only way you like knew about what was happening in the world was like through cable TV. Mm hmm. And the things I was seeing on TV was like the war in Iraq and like George W. Bush, like, you know, being Islamophobic and like everyone being Islamophobic and anti-brown and anti-black. And so the antithesis to that was like MTV and System of a Down was on MTV being like these like really unruly brown people, you know, spouting these progressive and like radical and anti-genocidal like messages.

42:16 And so that was like my entree to radicalization, like system of a down was like my entree to like, progressive politics and so like I I don't know I carry that with me like now in my like late 30s um and so I have a lot of like I don't know nostalgia for that and then like also a little bit of disappointment um that like as the years went on I became more radical and it seems like my heroes um became de-radicalized yeah yeah um yeah so that feels shitty that feels shitty yeah no thank you for sharing that too because like 2001 i was an 18 year old you know like i felt like i was entering into adulthood when 9 11 happened and george bush years started to you know add up and i felt like i was in this world of uncertainty as a young 18 year old trying to figure his place out in the world and also growing up around a predominantly white community not as you know super white as the community that you grew up in but but it was pretty conservative and i have always felt like like i've always had to hold back uh or hold back on the curiosity i that i have about the identities that i was not quite comfortable um disclosing um where's my queer identity my asian brown

43:46 identity um and you know like at that time my music list was like i was listening to a lot of b96 which was like a pop top 40 radio station and i was really into you know the r b and hip-hop you know like the ashantis um And listening to Missy Elliott. But System of a Down was probably one of the very few rock acts that really got my attention during that particular period of time. And for years, I was always mesmerized by their catalog and their performance. presence and what they stand for and yeah to your point like i think that there is a lot of disappointment like this past year i feel like i've had to to do an audit of people that i've enjoyed listening to over the years who i consider to be i guess quote unquote heroes and how much i have to like really divest away from the celebrity culture of it all you know like where do i want to put my energy towards like like is it like as we were talking about beyonce earlier like you know previously like is it worth spending five hundred dollars for a ticket or like a hundred dollars or $130 on a hoodie you know is it is it is it really does it really make sense to like invest in people who really don't have our best interests at heart especially when there's communities that are really getting eliminated so

45:19 I think that yeah there's been a lot of artists this past year that have really disappointed me that I've had to scale back on and I think it's kind of making me think especially now that I'm in my 40s, like, okay, I feel like maybe I'm old enough for this. I kind of need to get past this period and start to be more pragmatic about my own taste and my own viewpoints of how I view these artists and view people that are considered heroes. We're dealing with it now with the Cesar Chavez aftermath and how we reckon with his legacy now. Yeah. So I think this is definitely a continuing conversation.

46:01 And I wonder what the future of System More Down looks like moving forward. Are they going to continue performing as a band at this rate? Or is Serge going to continue working on his solo efforts? Time will tell. But I think right now, some of the political turns have been shocking and unfortunately very disappointing. I guess maybe not as shocking as I think about it. so let's go to the next one i chose stay by rihanna um finally we have rihanna's song and you know This song, I feel like, has started to become forgotten over the years, even though this song was a huge hit in 2012.

46:44 You know, this came from the Unapologetic album, which, you know, followed right after the song Diamonds, which was a huge smash hit in one of her signature songs. She played this at the opener of her Anti tour, which is a peculiar choice to start out that song because it is a very heartfelt, vulnerable and soulful ballad. You know, prior to Anti, You know, like this particular album and that song was showing the continuing confidence and the maturation of her voice. You know, back in 2005, she entered the scene as a bright-eyed teenager working under Jay-Z's mentorship, do the Pande replay, and then went through the Chris Brown Chris Brown situation that turned very public and violent.

47:39 And that was something that she had to reckon with as a young woman now in the media and now in the tabloids. And then now coming out of that experience is when she started to really emerge creatively. She started to change her hair color to the red hair in 2010. She started making more songs with deeper meaning that felt more like her and she started becoming more confident in her own presence in her own wardrobe in her own identity and And there was an unwavering confidence about her. But this particular song, like you could really tell, like she was really starting to become more vulnerable in her music.

48:26 And I mean, I look back with that song, Stay, which, you know, she performed by Mikko, I believe. I could be wrong with the pronunciation, Michael or Mikko. But it is such an enduring hit. It's such an enduring song. And it's incredibly, incredibly beautifully done. yeah i have so many feelings about this um uh yeah your inclusion of this song so again my note on this um like inclusion of stay rihanna's song um like i in all caps was like agreed like this is this is the song of hers of the century um yeah and i don't know i was just googling really quickly about like her era and like the time that this song came out um uh yeah 2012 2012 was wild right like she So much was happening.

49:44 She was at the peak. She was at the prime. She was entering the prime of her musical career. Yeah. And I almost feel like... Was she a little bit sabotaged by everything that was going on with her personally? Because... Obviously, she has... blossomed and like her career has like gone on year after year um and and now fast forward um 14 years later she's doing great um like no doubt oh yeah financially yeah she's not hurting yeah she's not hurting um but I do think that yeah this was like this was an era in her career where I was like Again, this is an artist I grew up with.

50:34 And so I've like loved her music all of my life. But I'm like more putting myself in the place of where I was at when I was listening to her music at that time. And yeah, it felt very like I felt for her. I really felt for her at that time. I was in I was in grad school when this album came out and I I was doing my gender studies degree. I was doing my master's, my graduate degree in gender studies. And so this album came out. She was on tour. This whole horrible shit with Chris Brown came out.

51:20 And I actually ended up writing an op-ed in the school newspaper at my university about how she... made the choice to like release like footage or like photos of like, like the post encounter with Chris. Like they, I think they had a fight in a car or something like that. Or like it was like a semi-public encounter. And so she was like, yeah, like I'm, I'm pressing charges. And I, I was like in my early 20s.

52:01 So I don't know. I like I like wrote an op ed for the school newspaper. It got published and it got like a lot of backlash, actually, which is like weird. And I don't know. I'm like maybe still reckoning with that because. the internet is forever. So like, you can probably find it. I haven't searched it in like all these years. But I remember writing like, oh, people like Chris, Chris Brown are like an endemic. And like people like Chris Brown are a symptom of like, like this culture, and like there can be no rehabilitation.

52:42 And then like, I feel like people in the comments came at me again. This is like at my fucking college in Wisconsin. So it's not like it wasn't like a national thing at all. But yeah, like it stayed with me all these years. And so when I think about Rihanna and like when I hear Rihanna's music, I think about like this this moment in my life where I was like, oh, I want to come to the defense of someone who is like this really like powerful figure and this really like creative artist who, whatever, like had this like very like public bad relationship.

53:25 And I, as like this student of like, I don't know, Social work, gender, sociology was like, this is my observation of what's happening in the culture. And then like, I don't know, it feels very. It feels very weird. Like, yeah, it feels very much like. Yeah, I don't know what to say about that. Yeah, like when I think about that 2012 era, I mean, I feel like this is like where you really start to see Rihanna become more assertive. She started to become more clear about what she wanted. And when, you know, media started to come after her and she was still dealing with the Chris Brown fallout for a couple of years.

54:12 And I think that this is where she started to become like, okay, I'm going to push back. I felt like she was entering the way Madonna and Beyonce were starting to really establish themselves and be like, look, I have boundaries and this is what you're asking me, this is what you're not going to tell me what to do. And then she released the anti-album, which came after a few years of taking a break because for a while she was releasing... year after year like new albums and um the anti album in a way was kind of like this masterpiece and i felt like stay was kind of this inspiration for her slower her ballads and in and where she was testing out her voice you know when she was really starting to become more uh confident in what she can use it for um and um and you know since then you know we're now 10 years since anti and Like, it's hard to believe that we've gotten a decade without a Rihanna album.

55:11 And I don't think that there's any chance that that will happen anytime soon in the next five years. I would like there to be one, but I also feel like she's in a different lane in her life with her Fenty and her Savage X business, and also as a mom, too, right now. Yeah. yeah so it's wild 10 years later it's like you know it's like there's i think the fans are starting to like okay be like okay you know what we may not get this album ever i think a lot of us are starting to make peace with it i think that's fine um it's whatever but i think she's got such a good discography a good catalog of songs that are going to remain timeless for a really long time and you know people still listen to her in music i mean um like like diamonds um uh like um uh we found love um umbrella which i honestly i can't really stand this song unless it's that tom holland video you know then i'll watch it yeah but like but yeah there's so many great great singles and uh yeah i i hope that she comes back touring at some point down the road because i mean i saw i was lucky enough to see that tour with you know my good friend um and it was it was fun to watch you know and yeah so oh i was just gonna say um

56:43 feel free to cut anything. Like, I don't know what you're like editing is like, but I feel like I ramble a lot. Oh, it's fine. No, it's fine. Yeah. I wasn't too worried about that now. Okay. I was. I wasn't. I mean, sometimes I go on my own little tangents here, so. No, you're great. Yeah, next one. I decided I'm going to go indie here. The indie dance rock song Take Me Out by Franz Ferdinand. Boy, that song had me in a chokehold back in 2004. Yeah, this is before Guitar Hero, you know, you know, made that song for what it is, you know, it gave it a new life like a couple of years later. But God, this was like the era of the indie dance rock bands like, you know, Panic at the Disco, Arctic Monkeys.

57:28 Franz Ferdinand was a band from the UK. They were named after the Archduke Franz Ferdinand who was murdered in Hungary, which ignited World War I. And the thing is, when I think of Franz Ferdinand, I'm not thinking about the Archduke, his murder. But instead, I think of that band. And... I, you know, interestingly enough, I saw them perform, they were double headlining act with Death Cab for Cutie at the Aragon, which is a very interesting act between those two because I'm like they couldn't be any more apart because like Franz Ferdinand came in like you could tell the energy was so high but then when Death Cab came in it just felt so chill and very you know I don't know I wasn't a fan of Death Cab I mean that was like right after The Plans album came out which is a great album I really enjoy it to this day but it just felt so misaligned.

58:26 A very curious double headlining act. But gosh, I mean, Take Me Out is a song that just gets stuck into your head, that hypnotic beats and that guitar rift. Do you have any thoughts about growing up to that song, Take Me Out? Was it a song that was constantly in you're, uh, playing in your, uh, Apple iPod. Yes, absolutely. 100%. Um, I have so many stories about my affinity to France Ferdinand. Um, it's so funny. Um, I feel like this band was like my entree to, um, to indie music and like indie rock.

59:14 Yeah. Same. Yeah. As like a 13 year old, I, um, this is a crazy story. But like, actually like I'm going to tell it and then everyone who's listening is going to be like, it's not crazy. But so I did, I did a summer camp every year during high school. And one of the like units was like music. And so yeah, uh, like during the day we would have like all of these like workshops and stuff, um, in between like breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

59:55 And one of the units was music. And then one of the camp counselors was like, Oh, I'm just going to introduce you all to like, uh, new music. So he just literally played his iPod for us. And yeah, this was like 2002. Um, He, like, played Franz Ferdinand. All of our 13-year-old minds were blown. We were like, wow, what is this? Oh, my God. And, like, that's how I got introduced to, like, the Strokes and, like, the Kooks and, oh, my God, the Yeah, Yeah, Yeahs. Yes.

1:00:35 All of these bands that, like, years and years and years later, I'm like, these are my favorite bands and I love them to death and blah, blah, blah. So, yeah. Yeah. um it's just so funny to think that like that was my entree to to that music um but yeah the first time i ever heard i will never forget the first time i heard take me out was at summer camp when i was 13. Oh, wow. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved them. And then, like, I got, like, my little brother really into indie music. And, like, he ended up seeing, it's so funny, he's seen Franz Ferdinand live. Like, he saw them live with his buddies in Wisconsin.

1:01:19 But, like, by that point, I was in college. Like, he was in high school. Yeah. And so I was just like, well, at least someone in the family got to see them. But yeah, I still love them until this very day. And yeah, I think this is their... this is their best song, let's be honest. They're a great band, but this is their- Most recognizable song. And it's interesting because around 2004, that was also when I started to shift more into my hipster indie rock era, throughout the rest of my remaining years in college.

1:02:01 and it's like i was turning away from like you know the top 40 uh pop r b hip-hop uh era to you know listening to them and god you know like i was listening to death cap for quite a bit too um yeah like the decemberist um phoenix i saw phoenix like well before they became famous like they were playing at the double door which was like which was such a great experience and so yeah like that was the era that i started to grow up in but i give france ferdinand credit for kind of like jump starting me back into the rock era and yeah so the last one Last one on my list.

1:02:44 Last but not least. You know, I debated on this for a while because I could have put Rolling in the Deep by Adele. If I put that, that would have made a lot of sense because, I mean, I remember where I was. I remember how hypnotic that song was. And to this day, it is such an enduring song. But I chose Hometown Glory. This came from her debut album, 19, in 2008. so many songs to choose from by Adele, like, over the years. And this song hits on so much, on so many levels for me, like, because of how nostalgic this song is.

1:03:27 Like, I think over the years, this song has really grown onto me, and especially more recently when I think about you know, the passings, you know, of the people in my life and also like revisiting places that I haven't been to in a long time where, you know, going back to places like that don't exist anymore and trying to, you know, sit with it. It's an interesting song because Hometown Glory, you know, kind of reminds me of like the earlier version of When We Were Young. When We Were Young had me like really emotional when I heard that song. for the first couple of times and then even more emotional. Wait, Seymour, who, by who? Adele. Okay.

1:04:07 Yes. Yeah, with Adele. And when I saw Adele perform in Vegas, she performed when we were young. I mean, God, I don't think there was a dry eye in that moment. But when I think of hometown glory, this was probably like the, this was the predecessor to that song, in my opinion. But what I think is very interesting about it is that Adele was a teenager when she wrote this song. And this song was, this is a song that you write when you're in your late 30s or early 40s, you know, when you lived a life. She was just barely living a life by that point, but she, um, she, uh, was only 19 when the song came out. Um, And this was part of her debut.

1:04:49 Like, she was coming in at a time where her fellow Brit peers, Amy Winehouse, Lily Allen, Duffy, were also emerging. And, you know, here comes Adele, a very shy, very quiet, introverted person, you know, and a person who was terribly, famously terrified of being up on stage. And... You know, when I think about that song, it's a very nostalgic hit, such a, it takes me back to a very raw place every time I hear it. And, and I learned that she wrote that song, like talking about her experiences, like protesting against the Iraq war as a teenager and, you know, trying to beg her mom to come back to London.

1:05:33 And I was like, wow, this is such a mature song for a person who was already at that age, you know, and, and Since then, Adele has become a global icon, a beloved treasure, and really one of the most one of the most sought-after voices, especially as a millennial. I think she's been just... She hits on different genres. She can hit with the boomer crowd. She can move to Gen Z, even Gen Alpha crowd. She hits on all cylinders, but yeah. Were you a big fan of Adele? Was that first album, did that come up for you, or was it the 21 album where Rolling in Deep...

1:06:20 was, you know, like introducing her to a much wider audience became a household name. Yeah, you know, I never, I will admit, I never got really into Adele. I think because I missed that moment. I feel like, so I... So 2008, when Adele became really big, I had just started college. I was really getting into the indie music scene, or rather getting very deep into the indie music scene.

1:07:11 And like, I honestly like feel like I didn't get into Adele until years later, like a couple of years later, maybe like two, three years later. But then was like very appreciative of her talent and her skill and her craft and was just like very impressed by her, her work. Yeah. And so, and then like realizing then like years and years later that like, oh, she was like a contemporary of mine. Like I'm, I don't mean to say that like I'm like someone who was like, oh, I was wanted to be a pop icon.

1:07:53 No, I just like I like singing as like a hobby. And like I love doing karaoke again as like a pastime and a recreation. I'm, you know, again, like in my mid 30s, I'm not trying to be like a singer or anything or a pop icon. But yeah, I have like singers that I admire. And like Adele is certainly one of them. And so, um, yeah, I think like looking back in retrospect, I'm like, we're close in age. Like she, um, hearing you like share more about her history and about her like journey, um, as a performer.

1:08:37 Yeah. I don't know. Like I feel for her and I feel like, um, um, I've always really loved her music. I get it. I felt like I couldn't end this list without having an Adele song because I feel like she has been such an enduring voice for the past 25 years. I don't think there's been a voice like that in quite some time or at least currently speaking. Yeah, I mean, she's also the person who keeps people waiting, too.

1:09:18 I mean, she'll disappear for a couple of years and re-emerge. And it's kind of funny because her last album was released, like, nearly five years ago, which I can't even believe it's been that long. But when I saw her in Vegas, like, a few years ago, it was such a beautiful, beautiful experience. Like, there was one part when, you know, when the song Set Fire Till the Rain came on, like... the stage was, like, you could see the rain coming down, and then there's a piano, like, and then there was the fire, the flames that were lighting up the piano, and you could see the piano, like, falling apart, and I'm like, oh my gosh, how many pianos does she have? You know, for this residency, you know, but, I mean, the venue, the sound, the AV, I mean, it was such a great experience.

1:10:08 I mean, like, this is not a stadium we're talking about. This is just a small 5,000-seat theater, you know, which was to her liking, and those tickets were in high demand. I know I paid an arm and a leg in flying over to Vegas to have that experience, but yeah. But yeah, and more power to her. So there are some artists that I haven't even brought up, like Aaliyah, Janelle Monae, Lenny Kravitz, Maya, Mariah Carey, surprisingly. I know that some of my friends are going to be shocked that I didn't include her on there. Harry Styles, Adore You is really one of my favorite songs, and I hate the fact that I had to leave that one out.

1:10:52 Yeah, and I know my friend Jung is going to be very disappointed in me about that, because they are a huge Harry Styles fan. Yeah. And also, like, apologies to, you know, my Latin music listening friends. I would have loved to have put Shakira on there. I would have loved to have put Bad Bunny or Carol G. Sorry about that. I really apologize for this. Don't hate me. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm wondering if, like, for me, when I make these lists, like, for myself and, like, playlists for myself, I exclude the people who I'm, like... your whole thing is so good that I have to exclude you.

1:11:34 Yeah. I mean, there's also, yeah. Like you can't really pick one. I mean, I might have to put them on an album. Like Mariah Carey is going to have to be on there. Aaliyah's third album, the red album has to be on there for me. Cause I have a lot of things to say about it. Shakira. I mean, I mean, as much as I hate hips, don't lie the Waka Waka song and underneath your clothes, there's some bangers. between some of these albums and I'm like, yeah, there could be an album on there. I'll have to figure that out. That's going to be my own, you know, rabbit hole. No MIA for many reasons. I would have put her on there, but yeah, she's been disappointing me a lot.

1:12:16 Radiohead, that would have been typically been on there. But, you know, that might be more of a 90s thing, but also because, you know, Tom York is kind of a douche. But anyways. Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, so I want to talk about maybe some of your favorites that we haven't even talked about. Some of the songs that are artists that have come out during that particular time that really stood out to you in your own awakening, your own reckoning. Yeah, you know, I... I feel like I, in preparation for this conversation, I really honed in on your selections.

1:13:00 And so I was like, oh, let me be very responsive to what Randy has provided and what my relationship is to these songs. And I think even in us, our conversations and preparing for this recording, I was like, oh, there are some things that I completely agree with you. these are top 25 songs of the century. And then there were some things that like, I absolutely was like, that wouldn't, that wouldn't be my choice. And of course we've talked about it. But yeah, it made me think about how like, these kinds of lists are, like, these kinds of lists are personally very challenging for me.

1:13:45 Like, I almost need to do... Because what ends up happening for me is I make very niche playlists. And so I end up having... Yeah, I end up having playlists that are, like... oh, this is my top 25 of this genre. This is my top 25 of this genre, et cetera, et cetera. So it's just too hard. It's just too hard. Yeah. And I give you a lot of credit because like you did your due diligence and like you did your research and you did your historical archiving.

1:14:29 And I... I think it would take me a lot of time to get there. I couldn't tell you how many times I kept having to pull the song out. If I pull out one song, then I started pulling out another five songs. It was kind of like my own... a hellish nightmare that I was creating for myself and I mean when I get to the 90s I don't know if I could do that for just one list that might have to be a genre yeah we'll see how that goes I I'm not gonna torture myself quite yet um but soon I soon I'll have to like figure that out but yeah like what artists or what singers or what songs have we not talked about that are favorites of yours that you want to give light to Yeah, I would say it's 25 years.

1:15:18 You know, I think about... I hate to sound cliche, but... And the reason I'm saying that is because he's so in the zeitgeist at the moment and very much on the radar, but like Jeff Buckley. Oh, wow. Yeah, and so... Okay, how do I say this without sounding pretentious and like weird? But yeah, so I feel like... like uh working backwards there's this new documentary film that came out recently like just this past year about jeff buckley um and it's this beautiful beautiful documentary about um his like rise to fame and like him dying very young um and and and carrying the legacy of his father who was like this like folk artist um who he wasn't very close with him but um you know, he was like attached to him in the, in the world of music as like, Oh, your, your dad was so talented and now you're exhibiting all this talent.

1:16:37 And so we have a lot of like hopes for you in the culture. And then he like died very similar, similarly to his father. Um, and then before he died, he like produced this really beautiful, incredible album that, um, has like accumulated over the decades, this cult like popularity, you know? And so, you know, like I have, so this album grace by Jeff Buckley, like I have it on vinyl. I have it on CD. I, when I took guitar lessons as a teen, I, you know, learned one of the songs from the album on guitar.

1:17:24 Like, yeah, this is just like one of those performers, you know, he, um, he had an affinity for like classical Indian music. And like, I grew up listening to classical Indian music as like child of Indian immigrants. And so there's all of these like connections and affinities and stuff where I'm like, Oh, I love this artist. Um, and yeah, all of a sudden now, like decades later, um, there's this re-emergence of interest in his work and interest in his legacy and artistry, particularly around this new documentary film about him. And so I'm feeling a lot of feelings around I don't know, like, protectiveness around, like, his legacy.

1:18:13 But also, like, I want people to know about his music because it's really good. Yeah, it's not uncommon, too. I mean, we've seen that with Selena over the years. We've seen that with Amy Winehouse. We've seen that with Elliot Smith. Now that you bring up Jeff Buckley, Jeff Buckley died, like, in the late 90s. But I also think of Elliot Smith. I mean, he died very tragically, you know. uh through suicide and and like his music is also like oftentimes forgotten or at least at least on the mainstream level but among his hardcore fans i mean you know like he's still very much celebrated but it's like there are certain artists like wow like man i mean jeff buckling only had like one album that was released during his lifetime And Amy Winehouse only had two albums.

1:19:03 So it really tells you like, yeah, there's like, like we mourn not only the music that they left us behind, like the little music that they gave us, but also like what could have been, like what we could have seen, you know, over like the next 10, 20 years of their career, you know, to see that happen like well before they even hit their prime. it's a tragedy. It's hard to, you know, see that. But also as a young person that grew up listening to a particular artist like that, like Aaliyah for me was like my first celebrity death that really affected me as an 18 year old and i got her album which i'll talk about next time you know i got her album like right before um she passed away and you know i thought about like this is the person who i really grew up listening to in high school um part of junior high to high school and i was like wow you know and this is like a part of my childhood that just died with me, I guess.

1:20:04 It's kind of hard because as some of our artists are getting older, at least it is good to know that they have at least accomplished so much in their career. But for young artists, it's really hard, especially when they were around our age growing up. It's really hard to process. This could really happen. and what they left behind but yeah you know thank you for shouting out jeff buckley and any other you know other songs or any um um artists that comes up for you like in this period yeah i mean um i think of jeff buckley i think of um i'm trying to think of underrated people because Where my mind is at right now, I'm thinking of, like, all of the people who, like, maybe given, like, too much credit who are still alive.

1:21:00 Justin Timberlake. Yeah. Yeah, people like that. And so I'm like, who? Taylor Swift. Like, who has not been given their... Oh, you know what I think of? I think a lot about... uh the mars volta oh yeah yeah wow that's a good name that's a good name i think about them all the time um i think about cedric and omar the two lead guys who are like the masterminds behind um not only mars volta but um uh uh what it oh after the drive-in that's like they did a side project um i don't know it wasn't very different from mars volta but it was them and they did this other side project called at the drive-in anyway um really talented lyricists really talented instrumentalists really talented composers, really talented vocalists.

1:22:09 I have all of their, I have almost all of their work on vinyl. I have like some of their stuff on CD. I've seen them live a couple of times. These are two Latinae, musicians who yeah have just done like really complex beautiful incredible work over the decades and because their music is like avant-garde experimental a little bit weird non-commercial and like I think that they have never signed with a major record label I think they've been independent all these years they I think, um, have, have not gotten the, like, they certainly have like a cult following because like, how would I, this little girl from the Midwest, like find out about them otherwise, like, you know, like they, they certainly have a following.

1:23:14 Um, and like, yeah, they came to the Aragon ballroom in 2007 when I was like an 18 year old girl, I saw them. And, uh, yeah it was life-changing like they're so talented and they're so incredible i listen to their music till this day um yeah um and they have like a interesting history also with the industry they've been very anti like capitalist all these years yeah um yeah so Yeah. Thank you for bringing it all together. And as we conclude, what does it mean to relive these songs of the yesteryears, 26 years now?

1:24:01 How does it make you feel when you go back into your early 2000s as a teenager and how you view these songs now as an adult? How does it feel to you listening and thinking about them? are they very relevant still to your life or are some of these songs kind of like, yeah, well, it was great for its time. I've grown out of it. I don't connect to it anymore. Yeah, you know, that's a great question. I think it's definitely a mix. I think that they're, There are definitely songs where I'm like, oh, I feel so, wow, what a great memory. And then there are other songs where I was like, I can let it go.

1:24:43 It's okay. So, yeah. Yeah. I also want to say, you know, thank you so much for this, you know, wonderful Kiki, wonderful, like, deep dive that we've been having. for the part one and the part two, I didn't realize how long we would be talking about this. I was like, can I keep a top 25 conversation in two hours? And I'm like, yeah, probably unlikely. But, you know, I really, really enjoyed this conversation and I really hope that You know, people think about your own top 25, the songs that really stood out to you. I mean, it's really wild to me that we're like 25, 26 years into the century already.

1:25:24 And yeah, it's pretty wild when I think back about, you know, how the songs that we had listened to growing up are like now considered oldies to like the... to the young Gen Zs, to the current Gen Alphas that are millennial counterparts of birth. So it's a very disorienting time. But I'm also like, I hope that the artists that we listen to, the songs, you know, will carry through, you know, into our sunset years and that it like continues to, you know, resonate with younger people, younger generations.

1:26:08 And yeah, I really hope that you really enjoyed this conversation. It's the first of my kind. And I'm so glad to have you on, Anjali. And I really hope that we get to do more of these, these fun topics. Yeah, this was a pleasure. Thank you so much. Happy to be back if and when you will ask me. So thank you so much.