Oct. 27, 2024

S03E20: The Critic and The Apprentice: Power, Corruption, and Compelling Cinema

S03E20: The Critic and The Apprentice: Power, Corruption, and Compelling Cinema

**Host:** Alex First
**Guest Critics:** Jaqui Hammerton, Peter Krause, Greg King
**Episode Summary:**
In this spirited episode of First on Film and Entertainment, Alex First is joined by Jaqui Hammerton, Peter Krause, and Greg King to explore the...

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Season 3

**Host:** Alex First
**Guest Critics:** Jaqui Hammerton, Peter Krause, Greg King
**Episode Summary:**
In this spirited episode of First on Film and Entertainment, Alex First is joined by Jaqui Hammerton, Peter Krause, and Greg King to explore the intricacies of cinema and critique. The conversation kicks off with a playful debate on the absence of football and its cultural impact, segueing into a discussion about the evolving role of film critics in today's media landscape. The critics then dive into the period drama *The Critic*, with Alex and Jacqui praising Ian McKellen's compelling performance, while Peter offers a more critical perspective on the film's character development. The episode also features a thorough analysis of *The Apprentice*, a provocative portrayal of Donald Trump's rise, which sparks a lively debate about the film's depiction of power and corruption. Finally, the Timms tackles *Joker: Folie à Deux*, discussing its daring musical elements and the performances of Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga. The episode is filled with passionate critiques, humour, and thoughtful insights, making it a must-listen for film enthusiasts.
**Highlights:**
- **The Critic:** Ian McKellen's portrayal of a powerful drama critic in 1930s London is both praised and critiqued, with discussions on the film's exploration of power and manipulation.
- **The Apprentice:** A deep dive into the controversial depiction of Donald Trump's early years, examining the film's balance of fact and fiction and its commentary on power dynamics.
- **Joker: Folie à Deux:** The critics offer mixed reviews on this musical sequel, debating its portrayal of mental illness and the chemistry between its lead actors.
This episode of First on Film and Entertainment offers a rich tapestry of film reviews and cultural commentary. With engaging discussions on the role of critics, the nature of power, and the artistic risks taken in modern cinema, listeners are in for a captivating experience. Tune in next week for more in-depth analysis and lively conversations.
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WEBVTT

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First on Film and Entertainment. A very good morning, good afternoon,

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and good evening to all and sundry. And we've got

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the team together. We have got Jackie Hamerton, we have

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got Peter Krause, We've got Greg King. So it's a

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happy bunch of Vegemites. And got to say to you

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that I'm missing my football, Gregory King. I mean, I've

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been watching the women's game and I've actually got a

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little bit out of it because the Mighty Bombers are winning.

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But you know, what do I do for six months? Greg?

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You know, I'm watching England sort of trounce what is

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it Pakistan in the cricket and stuff like that, and

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the spring racing Carnival. But can't we have football two

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seasons in the year men's competition? Greg? Can't we?

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I know, I feel know how it field should go

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six months out? Well, but there's so many other things

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you can do, alic books, thread films to watch, lots

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of colorful things to do like that. I actually find

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I have more time now to do some things.

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Oh no, no, Well, the interesting thing is this week

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I spoke to one of the publicists and they said

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to me, oh, would you be interested in reviewing a book.

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And I said, well, I don't. Traditionally I read a

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lot of news, but I don't traditionally have a lot

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of time to read a book. What's it about? And

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they said AFL football. Suddenly, yes, exactly. I started drooling

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at that point. Greg, Now that's how desperate I've become.

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Can you relate to that, Jackie Hamerton, because you're a

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Melbourne supporter and everything about Melbourne has been toxic in

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recent times. Correct, Oh, Alex.

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Welcome to First on Film and Air Taine.

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I'm air. I am being entertained, so it's all right,

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it's legitimate. You can answer the question as as a

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long suffering Demon supporter.

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It's a question was it about film or was it

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about football?

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Well, it could be about film and football. As for

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film and football, Peter Krause, I mean, if you're the Douyen,

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are you not? You and football are like sliced cheese

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and the nuclear.

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I have just spoken to the director of Like My

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Brother about four young women aspiring to be in the

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af L. W would you believe?

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Really?

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Wow?

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I'm okay. So if that is the case, would you

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go along and watch them? If they make it no.

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Is that what's called empathy for the cause?

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It's a good film and the story is interesting, but

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I still am not interested in football.

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I'm so disappointed out and I wanted to take you along.

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I still want to take you along to a game

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of football. You might change your mind, may you not?

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Could you not? Never?

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Could you?

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On my wildest dreams.

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But you care deeply and passionately about me. So you're

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showing your commitment to the cause.

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Doesn't that mean passionately? Oh my goodness, when did that happen?

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I'm making it happen. That's the sort of guy that

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I am. Isn't it a good thing?

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How passionate you are. Yeah.

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Now, I want to start talking about the role of

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the critic, because that's what we are. And I've had

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quite a few discussions about this over the last couple

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of weeks because the film has recently opened, called the Critic,

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And my opinion is that we are not as important

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as a collective as we were in the past, when,

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for example, reading the next day's paper was critically important

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to the success of a show or indeed a movie

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that with so many influences. Things are changing and I'm

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not saying it's for the better or for the worse.

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I'm just saying the status quo is, well, somebody else

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may have seen it, and if they recommend it, I'll

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go along and see it. But otherwise don't worry about it.

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What do you think better?

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Well, I think there are two issues here. One is

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that people now regard critics mainly only for the bigger pictures,

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the tent pole films and so on, and if they

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align with their views then they'll go and see it.

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But secondly, the role of the critic now, I think

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is to promote and push independent, low budget Australian films

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and overseas films that the audience needs to pay attention to.

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But hang, I'm that surely that's showing your personal buyers there.

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I mean, you can't say that's the role of the critic.

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It is a role of a critic if that wants

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to be the role of the critic, not critics in general.

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I disagree with that because, I mean, ultimately too we

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see so many movies. I long to see something vivlid difference,

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something that is challenging, etc. But there are a lot

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of people out there who won't go and see foreign

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language movies who simply want to see the big blockbusters.

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So have we not got a role to play? It's

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talking about the big blockbusters still.

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Well, yes, to know, I mean, people bet so much

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social media and see other people review things that professional

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critics like us are not necessarily paid attention to.

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It's interesting. This is the experience I had during this week, Jackie.

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This will not surprise you one iota. There is a

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person who, believe it or not, unlike your good self,

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likes to follow what I say and do and write

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and so forth. And I recommended, highly recommended that they

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go and see the substance. They were horrified. They actually

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said to me, They rang me and said, my husband

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says I should not follow you anymore. How does one

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respond to that, Jackie?

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Oh well, I totally agree with that person. But I

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would say it's not necessarily that anyone in the wider

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community with access to social media or anything less or

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even can talk about it a film or a book

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for that matter, or anything. The word review is a

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bit strong. I would say, usually influences promote because you know,

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they're not being discretionary about it, they're not being critical

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about it.

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As a critic may.

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Be it's just more in the realm of promotion rather

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than critiquing.

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Well, it's interesting. I don't know whether you saw the

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article only in the last twenty four hours about Jessica

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Chastain on an aircraft. Did you have you read that

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or any of you? No?

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No, okay, now, don't read the gossip columns, columns.

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Yep, what about your life, Jackie life about there?

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Yeah, that's it. That's enough going on in my life

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without regain.

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So there was there was a she lodged a sort

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of an online complaint I think on I think it's

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x or one of these platforms whereby the entertainment system

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wasn't working on the aircraft and everybody on the aircraft was. Well,

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she didn't know this at the time, but she was

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offered a fifteen dollars refund. I think this was in

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the right and then she still complained about it, and

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then people sort of complained about her complaints, saying that

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she's entitled and all that sort of stuff, and it

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went on and on and on. So it became rather

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than a praising, it became a criticism. And somebody who

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obviously is seen to be a high profile and in

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not so much in need of resourcing as other people. Yeah,

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so it's fascinating that which has absolutely nothing to do

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with being a critic.

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Where did that come from, Alex Well?

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No, Well, I suppose that she assumed the role as

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somebody with a public profile of criticism of an airline

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because it didn't provide the service.

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Look, you're confusing the word criticism with a critic or

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critiquing something.

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I'm deliberately doing this to inflame the debate, and I'm

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talking true. Well, you're being.

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Highly successful once again and in flaighed debates.

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And I've said many times my job is to make

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you utterly exasperated. Have I succeeded?

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Yes?

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Yeah, fantastic. Now, Greg, you do you read a lot

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of books, but you're a film critic. I've never have

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you ever been a book critic. I've written a few

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books reviews for the blurb, Right, and do you are

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you just as vociferous in your commentary when you're reviewing

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a book as you are a film.

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Probably only review books that I like, Ah, which looks

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I'm not going to waste time reveal your book I

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don't like, but maybe like read your book.

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I don't.

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I struggled with I'll sell finish your book, I'll return

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into the library. But that's about as far as I'll go.

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But if there's a book I really like, you know,

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I fly through and I feel, you know, I've enjoyed,

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I like to share that with some people.

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And the same thing with sad reviews.

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I've written a few of them in the past as

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well with sods of people I like, and I just

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want to review the record.

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So yeah, I do bratch you out, Alex. Okay. So

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here's here's the question. When you don't like something, and

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this is quite frequent for Peter and Jackie, when you

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don't like something, is it easier to be critical than

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it is to be praiseworthy or is it more enjoyable

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to be critical than praiseworthy As a critic, Peter.

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Kraus, neither. I think. I call it as I see it,

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and I can just as easily review and criticize a

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good film or film that I've really enjoyed, as well

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as a film that I didn't enjoy. So I don't

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think it makes any difference.

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Jack find you're a little bit you're something you really

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enjoy or something you really dislike. You are a bit

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more passionate with your writing about it. I think you

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are able to express yourself a lot better something you're

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just the you know, you struggle a little bit to

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write about it as much. I think things you really

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enjoy or really dislike you're you're writing this shoulder.

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I totally agree with you agree. I think that that,

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oh I've done something wrong.

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You're agreeing in the other I am.

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But because there if it's middle of the road, you

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kind of you know it is. It's sort of oh

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well it was okay. Uh, and and you sort of

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then struggling a bit more to sort of say balance,

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put put the balance in there and say you can

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still say what you liked and didn't like, but you

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you don't walk out of there. Because I remember that

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film that I can't remember that name, not ironically, the

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one with Dame Judy Dench said in the in the

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British Medical System in a hospital that came out of

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think it was last year or the year before. I

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had some really fine actors in it, and it was

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just a pr exercise for the British Health Service. And

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I loathed that film. I thought it was absolutely disgraceful,

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and whoever cared to listen, I said, for you know,

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I was going to use another word, but don't go

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along and see it. You're never going to get those

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two hours back. And I've felt really strongly about it. Likewise,

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we talked about the new Joker movie, or we will

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be talking about the new Joker movie. I thought that

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the original one was extraordinary and I highly recommended it.

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Or you know, there's a number of other movies over

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the distance that I really felt strongly about and urged

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people see the same thing. About theater. I've seen three

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extraordinary performances this year, one by the Way, which is

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coming back, which I will see. We're talking about it.

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I'll mention it now if any of you can go

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along and see Murder for two at the Art Center,

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which is coming back in early December. It's one of

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the great, great, great shows that I've seen, and it'll

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be at the Fairfax at the Art Center. It just

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it was amazing how much loved it got and I

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knew nothing about it going in. So that's a beautiful thing. Now, Jackie,

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what about your views on criticism and whether it's he's.

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It Greig Greg took the words out of my mouth.

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Of course, it's much easier to write if you've got

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stronger feelings about something.

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Okay, well, so this is where you can be critical

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of me at any time. Jackie. It's good, thank you, Yeah, fantastic.

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So let's talk about the movie. It's ninety nine minutes.

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It's called The Critic and it is rated M and

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I suppose it does really ask the question what weight

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should want assign to the critic and enormous If there's

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any truth to what's contained in what is a searing

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period drama, it's period drama, comes thriller, and we're talking

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about London in nineteen thirty four and for four decades,

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the character played by Ian McKellen, who's known as Jimmy Erskine,

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has been the chief drama critic of a newspaper that

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doesn't exist called the Daily Chronicle. And he's arrogant, he's entitled,

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he's noted for his poisoned pen, and he wields that

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pen as a sword of honor. And really the reason

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he does this in a sense is that such is

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his power that he can make or break careers. So Jimmy, well,

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he is gay. He drinks like a fish, and he's

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got a young male assistant played by Alfie Enoch. An

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actress who's been trying to win his favor for a

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decade is Nina Land and she's played by Gemma Artisan.

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Yet inevitably she's merely received his vitriol. And yet after

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another scathing review of her latest performance, her mother, Anna

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Belle played by Leslie Manvel, encourage the actor to confront

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Jimmy in person, which she does, and then on the

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eve of another show opening in which she's the lead,

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Nina is a nervous wreck and decides to ask Jimmy

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for advice. Little does she know it, but in time,

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he'll use their association to instigate a nefarious plan because

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in the background, the Daily Chronicle newspaper is undergoing change.

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The former owner who first employed Jimmy has passed away

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and his son, David Brooke played by Mark Strong As

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assumed control of the paper and brooks out to reinvigorate

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the newspaper. And Jimmy's far from safe because of the

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venom and is writing and the way that he personally

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conducts himself. So when Jimmy appears to be cornered, he

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uses Nina who is desperately chasing f and acclamation in

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a sordid game that will have dire consequences. And this

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is a reimagining of a novel called Curtain Call by

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Anthony Quinn. I thought it was really compelling piece of work.

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It's written by Patrick Marber who did Notes on a

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scandal directed by ann An Tucker, who was responsible for

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When Did You See When Did You Last See Your Father?

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Very well written, I thought, very well executed. Likewise, strong

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sense of exploitation is at stock in trade and it

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deals with picking soft spots and turning the screws to

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breaking point. Reminded me. I think I'm right in saying

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it was a British politician called Lord Acton, a nineteenth

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century polly who said that power tends to corrupt and

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absolute power corrupts absolutely. That was Lord Acton, was it not, folks, Yes? No,

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no recollection of that statement, okay. Well. Ian McKellen delivers

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I thought one of the performances of his long and

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storied career. He is really expressive, his seemingly with an

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answer for everything. In playing the role of Jimmy and

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Jimma Arterton is demonstrative as Nina land, she's vulnerable, she's

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also driven to succeed at all costs. I thought the

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production value is the period detail in the critic was

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very good, in which the tangled web of deceit and

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blackmail makes for quite thrilling entertainment. So that was my

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thought on the critic. Did you did you bear criticism

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of the critic, Jacqueline?

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The critic for me is just about the complete package

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of a really enjoyable film, enjoyable entertainment. I think it was.

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There wasn't really much I didn't like about it. I

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just sat there and got involved into that thickening, the

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thickening threads of this plot even more tangled, and it's

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so theatricals. It's got that vintage flavor right through it.

295
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In the close ups and the lighting, you know, that

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kind of dim lighting as you know, nefarious things are

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going on. The acting beautiful, led by Ann McAllen.

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As you see it is just like wow.

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He is amazing, and it's.

300
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Like it's like a Tim Tam biscuit, the best you

301
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could ever have. He was so compelling, Jackie.

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I agree with you only if you like Tim tam biscuits.

303
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It's just great activity.

304
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He doesn't like Tim Tam biscuits. Do you not like

305
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Tim Dam's controversy here? Do you not like a Tim Tam? Yes?

306
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But I prefer Ann McCullen.

307
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Right there was in this role.

308
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I think I just think he's he's masterful in this

309
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He's memorable and masterful. But it's also because the whole

310
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the whole stage is set for him in that lighting

311
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and the language and the and this quite old fashioned

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kind of plotting going on. You know, it's a very

313
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vintage flavor through the film. The critic and and in fact,

314
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all of the cast I think are brilliant. I like

315
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all of the cast and all of the characters that

316
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they portray. And much as he's horrible the critic, much

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as he is a horrible person, I couldn't hate him,

318
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because you know, he's manipulative and cruel, and I wouldn't

319
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want him as my friend. I wouldn't want him as

320
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my enemy either. But I just really enjoyed watching him

321
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and saying what he was up to.

322
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I think that's an interesting juxtaposition because I'm not sure

323
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how many actors could actually pull this off, so that

324
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he is the epitome of evil. In the one hand,

325
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On the other hand, you sort of appreciate the bomb

326
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bast you know, that's.

327
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It's Alex, it's the twinkle in the eye. I think

328
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that gets you through this because he is playing a

329
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game here, and you know, I guess it's just in

330
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his nature to be manipulative and to be self serving

331
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and pompous and always going for, you know, what's going

332
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to be the best outcome for himself. He's a pretty

333
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horrible person really.

334
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Now I make a bet here that Peter is going

335
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to be contrere because he's just the recaul strant. Are

336
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you a contrere calcitrant? Yes? Come on, tell me what

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didn't you like about the critic?

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Veto I revel when being a recalcitant.

339
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Middle name, isn't it? You know it's Peter R. Kraus correct,

340
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Thank you very much, Yes, of course.

341
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Okay. Look, Patrick Martha did such a good job on

342
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Notes on a scandal that was an increasingly volatile drama,

343
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very well written, excellent character creation. I think he's dropped

344
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the ball in writing the Critic. He's given a terrific

345
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role or written a true role for Ian McKellen and

346
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for his role as a trenchant theater critic in the

347
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nineteen thirties. But he has underwritten everyone else's part in

348
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the film, and so the focuses is purely on him,

349
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and we don't really see the machinations that the other

350
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characters and other roles have in this increasingly histrionic and

351
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melodramatic film.

352
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Which, sorry, just pause you for a moment when you

353
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say that, what more would you have liked to have seen?

354
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For the Gemma artid and character Nina Land.

355
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Well, her character is somewhat undefined. Yes, she's an aspiring

356
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actress and she wants to do well and all that,

357
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But that's a cliche, and I don't think her role

358
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was written in a particularly erudite sort of way, which historic.

359
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.680
When you say that's a cliche, there'd be a lot

360
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of people out there who want to make it right

361
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and scrap away at it, et cetera, et cetera. Why

362
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is that a cliche in the sense that there are

363
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I mean, if I know people myself who have been

364
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struggling forever to be recognized in their particular craft, where

365
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would you have liked that to have gone? I'm curious.

366
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:25.880
Well, because of the way she used as the character

367
00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.880
in the film. Yes, I agree. Of course there are

368
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lots of struggling actors and all that, but we know

369
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that we've seen that in countless films. But there's nothing

370
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particularly unusual, different special about her characterization. Same goes with

371
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Mark Strong's newspaper sort of character, which is just underwritten

372
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and Leslie Manville has very little to do.

373
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Yeah, I think, Leslie. I think Leslie Manvil. I agree.

374
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This is, by the way, just to remind people, she

375
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plays Nina Land's mother. Jemma Artiden's character's mother is called

376
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Annabelle in the film, and yeah, I mean she's sort

377
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of exasperated, but she doesn't have a great deal to do,

378
00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:10.839
and she's a very fine actor. I accept that criticism.

379
00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:13.079
I'm not sure about the other, but that, yeah, please

380
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go on.

381
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:18.319
Okay, So what happens with this film is that it

382
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:23.920
becomes a murder mystery. It becomes an issue of being gay,

383
00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:28.359
which of course was illegal at the time, the issue

384
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of emerging politics and fascism, which the film skirts around,

385
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and the whole notion.

386
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I'm gonna pause you again, isn't that good that there

387
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are a series of subplots that that a good movie

388
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:49.440
can do that? And I didn't see a problem with that.

389
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Why why do you struggle with that?

390
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:54.960
I don't have a problem with a number of issues

391
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.640
that a film deals with. But these were subplots that

392
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:04.200
were underdeveloped, were just thrown in which without any real

393
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:08.880
reason or cause. It just seemed to me that Patrick

394
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:14.480
Marber had developed a screenplay about a critic and thrown

395
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:18.000
in lots of other things because he was not confident

396
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:22.720
that the audience would identify and be interested in such

397
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a somewhat malevolent character. So let's have some sympathy areas,

398
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some political and social areas. For me, the film was

399
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:40.480
not a mess, but underdeveloped in the most part, and

400
00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:42.160
so that's what I found disappointing.

401
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:43.400
Greg.

402
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.640
Yes, well your view me with a lot has been

403
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:51.799
said before. I thought me mcculluch was having the time

404
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:55.240
of his life with this role there, playing up to

405
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:58.960
the nastiness of his character there. He was reveling in

406
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:01.880
some of the dialogue there. The film also looks good.

407
00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:07.079
There's great production design, I thought, and cinematographer David Higgs

408
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:10.680
has shot the film in that sort of warm golden

409
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:14.119
glory gives it that nosalgic feel there. But I agree

410
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:17.200
that some of the characters will a bit underwritten, like

411
00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:23.000
Mark Strong's newspaper editor. And I agree with lesabieth manvil

412
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:25.960
as the actress's mother there doing very little to do

413
00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:31.480
and he's wasted there. I liked Alfred is Tom Tuner,

414
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:34.559
who sort of we sort of the moral compass of

415
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:38.720
the film in some ways there, sort of resisting some

416
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:45.119
of jimmy Erskine's what would behavior there? But yeah, he

417
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:49.759
just raised a few issues about the social on.

418
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:54.680
Kiddy, I think Jeed aircraft just laid in your backyard.

419
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.119
I didn't hear what you just said. Then his backyard,

420
00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:02.960
Grand Pro, it's not on these these paper thin walls

421
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:05.519
of yours. Could you could you get somebody in and

422
00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:09.000
sort of triple or quadruple their size. They're they're there

423
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:11.640
with what's going on in your place? The Grand pri

424
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.799
isn't there again, is it yet?

425
00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:14.319
No?

426
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:18.519
In fact, there is no noise coming from my area

427
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:19.559
at the moment, so.

428
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:22.359
It's not me not yet. There you go, Greg, planes

429
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.000
landed in your backyard? Is that right?

430
00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:27.279
They wouldn't land in my backyard. It's nowhere for it's

431
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:29.000
land on any backyard.

432
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:31.440
Okay, well, maybe on the roof of your building.

433
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:36.720
I don't think so. Taking someone who's Sully's skilled to

434
00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:38.000
do that, wouldn't it well?

435
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:41.200
Good? Yeah, we can give Sally a due credit. I

436
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:46.680
mean he's quite Sally's Sully's retired, hasn't he. I think

437
00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:50.680
I think he has anyway, Sorry, Greg, we're into criticism.

438
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:51.799
Keep on going with a critic.

439
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:54.599
I cover where I was when that plane landed.

440
00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:00.319
Yeah, pick it up the left.

441
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:05.039
Oh yeah, the stuff about the social and political landscape

442
00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:09.440
of nineteen thirties England, where you know Ian McKellen's homosexuality

443
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:13.880
sort of he runs the risk of being imprisoned because

444
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:17.880
of his nocturnal firstive encounters with young men in the

445
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:20.599
park there. Wi his play up there, which comes out

446
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:23.680
strongly there. But I thought Ian McKellen relished the role.

447
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:25.839
The camera also works in a lot of close up

448
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:28.400
at the time, which became a bit uncomfortable at times.

449
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:31.960
I thought, yes, a close ups on Ian McKellen's face

450
00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:36.319
and Tom's face there, and as I said, Tom is

451
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:38.759
the sort of moral compass of the film. I think

452
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:42.240
here as he points out that it resists some of

453
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:44.279
Jimmy's manipulations.

454
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:47.559
Yeah, it's interesting you're talking about looking at the face

455
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:51.920
of Ian McKellen very expressed. I actually I think it's

456
00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:55.160
an amazing face. It's sort of it's got that lived

457
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:58.519
in quality to it. Maybe maybe that's that's what happens.

458
00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:00.880
What age is mean McKell on, Now, he'd be in

459
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:04.000
his late eighties or am I I'm guessing that, But

460
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:06.279
I don't know it. Does anybody known? I'll all it

461
00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:06.839
up for a while.

462
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:07.319
We was taught.

463
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:09.440
Oh that sounds good. All right, Well, look, I think

464
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.519
it's time for some scores, and Jackie, you and I

465
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.000
are going to give it good marks and ideas say

466
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.480
that Peter's going to draw down. So okay, let's start

467
00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:21.920
with you, Jackie, the critic, right there you go, So

468
00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:23.839
ninety thirty nine, okay, so hang on.

469
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:26.160
I've got many eighty five?

470
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:30.160
Yeah, okay, fair enough. And I actually I think I

471
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.440
read that he's had some health issues or you know,

472
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:34.680
we have only four.

473
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:36.799
A couple of months ago.

474
00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:39.200
Yeah. Yeah, that's terrible. It's shocking.

475
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:40.880
All right, a critic did it?

476
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:41.880
Shit?

477
00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:47.079
Thank you? Yes, black humors. There we go, Jackie. What's

478
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:48.079
your score for the critic?

479
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:53.480
All? Okay, yes, hoo, okay, the Cristian is nilence. This

480
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:57.000
is radio Oh heavens, I'm sticking. I was giving you

481
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:01.039
a dramatic pause there seeing if you actually stop jabbering away,

482
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:04.720
so could actually give you my score, which is nine

483
00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:08.440
out of ten. I love the chubsfroit On. We entertained

484
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:10.839
Bla didn't have any problem with any of the things

485
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:13.119
Peter said at all. I thought it was fun.

486
00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:15.400
So are you sticking your middle finger up with Peter?

487
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:19.359
Are you? You're right? Jackie?

488
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:19.880
You becoming?

489
00:28:20.359 --> 00:28:23.839
You're becoming, don't you? You're become incruding your old old

490
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:26.160
age jack I think.

491
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:28.519
It was you that said that, Alex. What't me?

492
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:31.039
That would never have been me? Would it? Okay? So

493
00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:34.000
I'm giving it eight and a half. Greg, you're going

494
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:35.559
to be next cab off the rank. You're not going

495
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:37.039
to be as vitriolic as Peter.

496
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:37.680
Go for it.

497
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:43.039
I'll half seven, okay, Okay, Peter, are you actually firstly,

498
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:46.240
are you passing it? I think you are? Yeses, So

499
00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:47.839
I think you'll give it about a six. What are

500
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:48.359
you giving it?

501
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:52.119
Your spot on? Ian McKellen carries the film The first

502
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:56.799
half works well, second half starts to Peter off. So

503
00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:57.720
if you're part in the.

504
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:04.880
Actually that's fantastic. You should have a blog, Peter Off.

505
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:11.119
I think that with suits down to the ground, Peter Kraus,

506
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:12.279
Peter Off.

507
00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:16.920
Right, and I can see the signage including a middle finger. Anyway,

508
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:20.359
I give it six.

509
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:26.799
Oh you're an apprentice at this Do you notice the segue?

510
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:28.200
All right, thank you very much.

511
00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:31.039
That we just want to ask Peter one last question.

512
00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:32.440
Did you enjoy?

513
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:34.480
Did you enjoy yourself watching it?

514
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:38.480
Enjoy isn't the right word, because as it got to

515
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:40.559
the second half of the film I was starting to

516
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:43.160
cringe a bit because the melo Jama took open.

517
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:45.920
Okay, really okay?

518
00:29:46.039 --> 00:29:50.400
When you aware that the novel had a serial killer

519
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:52.160
subwhat there that it's been left out of the door

520
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:52.680
all together?

521
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:57.880
Oh wow? All right? Interesting. So, folks, you're on j

522
00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:04.039
you're listening to this twaddle and this is rest time film.

523
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.960
Then everybody is a critic, and please keep listening regardless.

524
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:09.680
If you want to become a member of the station,

525
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:11.839
which I would encourage you to do. I've just paid

526
00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:17.039
stumped up my annual dues. It's only fifty four bucks

527
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:20.799
and you're supporting a station that hopefully supports the community,

528
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.279
and that's what we are all about. So go to

529
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:27.799
jdsh Air dot com dot EU, jdsh A dot com

530
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:31.160
dot au and listen out twenty four hours a day

531
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:33.839
if you would care to alltht bit of sleep wouldn't

532
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.000
go astray every now and again talking about the segue

533
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:41.039
to The Apprentice and seeing we are in a in

534
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:45.079
we're counting down the days to the US presidential election,

535
00:30:46.039 --> 00:30:49.160
and it gets murkier and murkier as time goes on.

536
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.559
And gee, where's the If you think my vitriol is bad,

537
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:56.480
you go and live in America and get a slice

538
00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:00.759
of politics. Boy, oh boy, just denounce it. The individual

539
00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:05.880
has taken on new almighty steps in this election campaign.

540
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:08.839
Having said all of that, The Apprentice is a two hour,

541
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:12.359
two minute movie rated M A. And long before the

542
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:16.000
Donald was a fixture on US TV as host of

543
00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:20.240
The Apprentice and of course later becoming president, he was

544
00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:25.279
this rather ambitious and young, aspiring real estate mogul. So

545
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:29.559
this is a film from an Academy Award nominated Iranian

546
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:36.400
Danish filmmaker called Ali Abassi. And it takes that concept

547
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:41.119
of well, the young aspiring real estate mogul and runs

548
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:43.839
with it. So how much of it is actual fact

549
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:47.119
and how much is fiction, I reckon it's a matter

550
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:53.839
of interpretation and political affiliation. So this is certainly upping

551
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.880
the drama. So we're in New York in the nineteen

552
00:31:58.039 --> 00:32:02.920
seventies and at that time the Big Apple was down

553
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:07.640
and out. It was a rather blighted urban center, lots

554
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.039
of violent crime. And Donald Trump, as played by Sebastian

555
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:16.039
Stan was operating under the thumbnail of his wealthy and

556
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:21.000
controlling father Fred, a role filled by Martin Donovan. But

557
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:25.640
Donald Trump wanted to see the city maker comeback, and

558
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:30.119
that's when he encountered an arrogant, influential right wing lawyer,

559
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:34.960
a political fixer called Roy Khan played by Jeremy Strong.

560
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:39.240
He was the one who did this. Is Roy Cohn,

561
00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:44.400
who secured spy convictions against Julius and Ethel Rosenberg and

562
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:50.200
investigated suspected communists alongside Joe McCarthy. So Console promise in

563
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:55.160
Donald Trump and taught I'll call him his new acolyte,

564
00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:00.680
taught Trump outdoor mass wealth and power through deception, intimidation,

565
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:06.319
and media manipulation. Con was fiercely committed to advancing his

566
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:11.519
own conservative ideology and relentlessly dominating any enemies who dared

567
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:15.920
challenge him, and in the film he shares three rules

568
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.160
of winning with Trump, and Trump adopted those three rules,

569
00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:24.200
so we may as well share them. Attack, attack, attack,

570
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:29.079
admit nothing, deny everything, claim victory, and never admit defeat.

571
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:32.480
And The Apprentice is about the rise and rise and

572
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:35.279
rise of Donald Trump, who barged his way through life

573
00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:38.200
and through people with the attitude that they were indispensable.

574
00:33:38.839 --> 00:33:41.720
They were dispensable rather than indispensable with a capital D.

575
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:45.960
It was all about furthering his own cause, be professional

576
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:50.079
or personal. The primary focus is on his relationship with

577
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:54.279
Roy Cohn, and a subplot involves his subsequent wooing and

578
00:33:54.359 --> 00:34:00.200
treatment of his wife Ivana played by Maria Bakalova, who

579
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.559
he paints Trump as having his eyes opened wide by Cohn,

580
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:09.800
and that results in the creation of an egotistical, self

581
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:14.760
centered monster of sorts. Is deeply attracted to throwing his

582
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:18.760
weight around and he revels in riding roughshot over everyone.

583
00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:21.440
In other words, if he wants something, he'll get it,

584
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:26.280
whatever the prize. So Donald Trump himself not the movie,

585
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:29.320
has already come out and said that he's hardly enamored

586
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:33.960
by his representation in this film. Surprise surprise not and

587
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:37.159
I dare say anyone who watches it won't be surprised

588
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:42.000
either to hear that. All I will say is I'll

589
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:44.280
comment on The Apprentice as a movie. I'm not going

590
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:48.400
to talk about the politics. I found it hideously compelling.

591
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:52.360
What it presents is ugly and exploitative, but I couldn't

592
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:56.679
turn away. And the writer Gabrielle Sherman has pulled no punches,

593
00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.079
and the director Ali Abassi runs with it to the

594
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:02.679
nth degree. And it's a movie that hits and hits

595
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:08.320
very very hard. Its authenticity or the authentic feel, comes

596
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:12.400
down to the production values and the cinematography. It's graty

597
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:16.800
look effectively portrays the era casp patusanuted the worst person

598
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:19.800
in the world is the director of photography, Sebastian stan

599
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:22.280
I think he does a really good job transitioning Trump

600
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:26.960
from a somewhat naive operative to a megalamodiac. Jeremy Strong

601
00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:31.599
is really strong himself, as Roy Conne matches Stan stride

602
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:35.920
for stride, except in reverse because the lifeblood is sucked

603
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:37.760
out of him. And I also like the way that

604
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:43.320
Maria Baklova pushed back as Ivana. Although one scene involving

605
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:47.679
her in domestic violence. I just found it just so distressing.

606
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:50.679
Trump's treatment of his wife in the film once the

607
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:54.760
gloss wears off is appalling. The Apprentice is a movie. Well,

608
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:59.000
it's a cautionary tale about power and corruption that I reckon.

609
00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:01.679
You feel like taking a shit hour after watching, right,

610
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:05.480
and so it's you know, it's a guilty type pleasure

611
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.360
film for me. That was my assessment of The Apprentice.

612
00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:11.119
What about you, Greek King?

613
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:15.639
This is this is an American horror story playing out here.

614
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:17.880
I think, Look, what do you think.

615
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:20.039
Of Donald Trump is one of the most controversial and

616
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:23.199
divisive figures in contemporary bolshics at the moment, like he

617
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:26.480
will loathe him, and I can see why him and

618
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:30.119
his campaign tried to band this film from being released,

619
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:33.000
especially in America. In the lead apitylicate because it's not

620
00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:37.440
exactly the most flattering portrait of a person. And as

621
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:40.320
you said, has been written by Gabriel Sherman, who apparently

622
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:45.400
has interviewed Trump several times in his career. But this

623
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:48.559
is here that takes its title for that reality TV

624
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:51.599
show that ran the fifth age season that Trump hosted

625
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:55.079
for Mastuly. Signed there but ironically here as Trump, who

626
00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:59.000
is the apprentice to Roy Cohen, himself a controversial figure,

627
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:04.519
pub nacious, unscrupulous lawyer who also had a key role

628
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:09.760
in that play Ariels in America, which exposed his true

629
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:13.360
nature there, you know, in the fifties, as you mentioned

630
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:15.800
the Rosenbergs, but there's also a key player in the

631
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:20.280
McCarthy which hunt trials of that communist which hunt Era there.

632
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:22.880
So he's the despicable person here, And as you said,

633
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:27.360
I think Jeremy Strong from Succession plays him to the

634
00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:34.000
hilt here. He captures him is chilling nature, is predatory

635
00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:38.079
slip nature there who as he observes the Sevengali write

636
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:42.639
influence over the young, narcissistic Trump. There he captures his

637
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:46.679
bullying style, his cold persona, and he's quietly menacing nature.

638
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:50.280
But I think the chemistry between him and Sebastian Standard

639
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:54.119
plays Trump is quite palpable here and brings the material alive.

640
00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:57.639
And I agree with you about the way the film

641
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:01.199
you picked, that decaying New York of the seventies and

642
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:04.440
early eighties. Here as the ukin sleeve he corrupts this brawl.

643
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:08.199
Great production design there, the use of some archival forties

644
00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:11.840
integrated carefully into there as well, and the cinematographer Cas

645
00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:16.960
Tapson gives the material that nostalgic Addiesvielle with the granny

646
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:20.480
brownish color palette there. But yeah, thrub here comes across

647
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:26.400
as narcissistic, selfish. And there's a couple of another scene

648
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:28.760
that I had looked away from, not that scene away

649
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.559
he reached Ivana, but also that scene when he undergoes

650
00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:34.559
some surgery my production and has part of his scalp

651
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:37.920
removes open implane head follow was there. I had to

652
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:40.280
look away that bit, So that was sort of discussing

653
00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:45.639
there as well. And I didn't think there is much

654
00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:50.800
about Ivana here. I thought her role was fairly faintless there.

655
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:54.400
Martin donnovan did a good job as the unsympathetic and

656
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:59.679
condescending in the loop ThReD Trump there. Yeah, I thought

657
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:03.239
this was It wasn't intended to be a hit piece

658
00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:07.159
on Donald Trump, but it does show where he came from,

659
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.239
and you can see a lot of how he's running

660
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:14.280
his campaign, how he's running politics from this portrait here.

661
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:19.800
Where As you said, he learned his playbook from Roy Cohne.

662
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:25.039
Peter, do you have any conception of how you determine

663
00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:27.679
fact from fiction because you look at this and you think,

664
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:29.800
surely a lot of this stuff couldn't be true.

665
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:33.360
Well, it's an interesting question because this is certainly not

666
00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:38.800
a documentary. It's about the formative years of Trump. But

667
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:43.960
I know that a lot of it is true because

668
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:48.960
they had lawyers, They did a lot of checking to

669
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:54.880
make sure that it was not able to be They

670
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:59.840
couldn't sue the filmmakers because most of it is based

671
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:05.679
on on fact, on what Ivana has spoken about about interviews,

672
00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:09.960
and a whole range of things. So, look, this film

673
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:13.639
surprised me. I didn't think I was going to enjoy this.

674
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:17.800
I thought this was going to be another exploitative political drama,

675
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.280
and it turned out to be a well written by

676
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:27.880
Gabriel Sharman and well directed film which gave you an

677
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:33.320
insight into the character of Donald Trump and the way

678
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:36.760
he is now. And so let's leave the politics aside.

679
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:42.400
I actually thought Maria Bakelova did a good job in

680
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:47.280
her role as Ivanna, because she stands out as being

681
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:55.559
reasonably strong and independent against a difficult person who she

682
00:40:55.719 --> 00:40:58.719
was attracted to in the first place, which I found

683
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:04.199
interesting in it. And yes, roy Cone is an amazing

684
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.800
character played by Jeremy Strong, and as you mentioned to

685
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:14.000
Greg Angels in America showed what a despicable manipulative character

686
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:17.079
he was and how he was able to influence as

687
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:19.760
somewhat naive Donald Trump.

688
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:23.400
But so rising bit, Peter, isn't it. I mean yes,

689
00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:28.360
because I suppose that I'm not sure whether you could

690
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:30.880
watch The American Apprentice in Australia or whatever. We didn't

691
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:33.960
really have that history with him. We've only known him

692
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.960
to be this sort of the bully boy tactics that

693
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:41.639
he employed after losing last election etc. That really put

694
00:41:41.719 --> 00:41:43.760
him on the map and you know, self confidence and

695
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:46.119
all that sort of stuff. So to see him in

696
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:48.400
the Infancy, I found that fascinating.

697
00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:52.679
Yes, absolutely, and that was so well directed and written.

698
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.280
But I also need to give a shout out to

699
00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:00.000
the editor who has put together a range of sequence

700
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:06.719
is so much information, historical events, archival footage and so on,

701
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:09.880
but edited it together in such a way that it

702
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:12.960
is quite compelling. And it could have been quite a

703
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:16.920
dreary sort of film and just one step after another,

704
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:20.280
but it actually is really well shot and will edited.

705
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:23.519
And even if you thought you knew about Trump. And

706
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:25.639
again I don't know how much is fact and how

707
00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:28.519
much is fiction. But you thought you knew about Trump.

708
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:31.039
This sort of opens your eyes, that's what I reckon.

709
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:33.760
It does. It does it gives you an idea of

710
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:39.800
what created the person that he is now and the

711
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:45.480
role of the father and how he was so dominating

712
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:54.320
and always hated Trump, but also his brother, Trump's brother,

713
00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:58.599
who is a character that is such a sad depiction

714
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:04.400
of a poor treatment by a family, especially well by

715
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:07.760
the father in particular. So there's a lot going on there.

716
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:12.480
And I really quite liked the film, which surprised me.

717
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:14.400
I didn't think I was known to now.

718
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:17.320
I was just wanting to watch someone like Oliver Stone

719
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:19.400
would have done with this martial, given his sort of

720
00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:21.440
incendiary style of filmmaking.

721
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:26.199
Yes, it would have been much more a melodramatic and

722
00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:27.320
I think much more.

723
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:32.960
Yeah, yeah, it could well have been. Jackie. I can

724
00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:35.920
only imagine how you rancted to some of the scenes

725
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:36.559
in this one.

726
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:39.280
Well, you don't need to imagine. I'll tell you if

727
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:39.679
you like.

728
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:45.039
Well, Jackie, the floor is yours. You just go for

729
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:46.320
the jugular, please.

730
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:53.719
I'm possibly unlike you. I did have a little bit

731
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:55.880
of a feeling for what Trump was like before he

732
00:43:55.920 --> 00:44:02.119
suddenly stepped onto the presidential stage, at least in contention

733
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:05.119
for it, and started becoming a better known And that

734
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:09.840
was through the Celebrity Apprentice TV show, which I used

735
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:12.920
to watch, and that ran from two thousand and eight

736
00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:13.920
to twenty fifteen.

737
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:19.719
So will oh Jackie, are you still there? We've suddenly

738
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:24.639
lost you. Nevertheless, sorry, Jackie, pardon me, Jackie. You actually

739
00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:27.199
cut out for the best part of twenty seconds there,

740
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:28.000
so we didn't hear you.

741
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:33.880
Oh no, my pearls of wisdom have gone off in cyberspace.

742
00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:37.440
That's presuming you have some thank you Yeah.

743
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:40.360
Yes, and you missed them. Never mind, I go on.

744
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:44.599
I did enjoy the TV show, The Celebrity Apprentice, and

745
00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:47.320
that did give me some of what his character was

746
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:52.199
like in being a fervent capitalist and bully, even though

747
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:58.000
it was sanitized probably for the deep. Okay, Peter's off,

748
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:02.159
Peter's off for the for the team. We just want

749
00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:05.559
to know that you win at the end, Peter. So

750
00:45:05.719 --> 00:45:08.880
I did get an idea of what his character was

751
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:14.840
like before he became a president, or at least started

752
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:17.519
going into that race. What I liked about this film

753
00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:21.199
was everything that you have said it was. It was dramatization,

754
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:25.199
and it wasn't It didn't seem to be trying to

755
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:28.800
be a hit piece, as I think Peter said, because

756
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:30.960
so much of it is based on fact, and it

757
00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:35.800
keeps feeding us that with the with the actual archival footage,

758
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:37.840
and you know, we're seeing Ronald Reagan and we're seeing

759
00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:41.280
how all of that politics and what was going on

760
00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:46.159
in New York was being fed into his character. I think,

761
00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:51.559
you know, I was a polarizing person prominent in the

762
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:56.400
world today. It's good to see this film and know

763
00:45:56.440 --> 00:45:59.519
how much came from his father and how much from

764
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:05.679
Rule Cone and and as Peter said, also, it was

765
00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:10.320
thoroughly enjoyable. It's the character development that I really like.

766
00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:11.559
We scout up.

767
00:46:14.119 --> 00:46:20.320
And you are, and the talking that this has every

768
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:23.239
machinery I think they're carrying out road works. Why are

769
00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:25.280
you talking to us? We're losing you, Jackie.

770
00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:29.000
You know it's it's not actually coming from me. I

771
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:32.440
think it's coming from Peter. Never mind, as I say, yes,

772
00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:33.840
I really enjoyed The Apprentice.

773
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:36.679
Peter, are you sure the Grand Prix is a early again?

774
00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:41.880
You know what the's going on here, right, You're drowning

775
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:45.199
out to Jackie. You know, she's such a timid person

776
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:47.199
to begin with, you know, and you don't want to

777
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:50.000
demean her any further. That's not good, Jackie.

778
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:53.079
The other thing about the film Apprentice, I think is

779
00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:58.320
that it could potentially potentially have been a lot more controversial.

780
00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:01.400
It could have really gone in hard on a whole

781
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:03.639
lot of stuff. But don't think it's back through that.

782
00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:06.639
Don't you think it did? Oh?

783
00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:08.719
No, I think it pulls back a lot because it

784
00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:12.559
gives us. It gives us explanation for things. We might

785
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:15.960
not like what we see, but we kind of understand

786
00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:18.719
it in a way. You know.

787
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:21.880
It's funny. Again, I call on the quote that I

788
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.440
used before power corrupts, Absolute, power corrupts. Absolutely. Don't you

789
00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:27.519
think there's some truism in that in terms of The

790
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:31.360
Apprentice as well, Jackie well in.

791
00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:38.000
Yes, well definitely, in referring to Roy Cone and then

792
00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:40.480
how he passes that on to Donald Trump, the young,

793
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:46.320
impressionable Donald Trump who finds whose father dominates him and

794
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:50.599
doesn't give him the praise or support that he actually

795
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:53.559
wants or you know, the approval that he wants. He

796
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:58.920
and Roy Cone sees potentially in Donald Trump and encourages

797
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:04.760
the behavior that gives him an alternative father figure, if

798
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:07.239
you like and approve alternative approving father figure.

799
00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:09.840
I found it interesting in the context that he could

800
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:14.880
obviously see that if he sort of champions him through

801
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:18.840
and that in the future, he's going to be able

802
00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:22.559
to use that relationship to his advantage, because I mean,

803
00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:26.760
why was con doing it that Initially? I was thinking,

804
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:29.280
what's he to gain by.

805
00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:34.119
Exactly that he's manipulative. He says that from the start.

806
00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:37.639
You know, he actually says, don't pay for the whatever

807
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:40.079
it was the suit, don't pay for the suit. I'll

808
00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:42.599
cover that, he says, I'll get it back from you

809
00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:43.159
later on.

810
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:47.320
Yeah, exactly. All right, So we're all going to give

811
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:49.239
this very good marks. I'm going to kick it off.

812
00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:52.360
This is The Apprentice Rated m A two hours, two

813
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:54.320
minutes eight out of ten.

814
00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:57.199
For me Jackie eight out of ten from.

815
00:48:57.039 --> 00:49:01.039
Me Peter, Yes, good film, seven out of ten.

816
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:04.320
Greg only a bit of low balls sixty out of ten,

817
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:05.639
just growing out like Donald Trump?

818
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:08.719
Can you can you?

819
00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:11.280
He's such an impartial critic?

820
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:16.519
Really, oh mate, I love you dearly.

821
00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:19.840
That's very verd Hey, Greg, Greg, I reckon Donald Trump's

822
00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:20.400
gonna suit you?

823
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:21.559
Now, yeah, I was going to.

824
00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:25.599
I'll leave enough instead of going to prison like Stephen

825
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:28.719
Colbert Gilli Pimmel that I worry about it. George Clooney,

826
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:30.679
you're gonna yel there before you this to me.

827
00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:33.519
Okay, yeah, but but Greg as it can you can

828
00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:36.760
you distance your disdain for him and give me a

829
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:40.760
mark for a movie rather than for Donald Trump. So

830
00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:48.440
I've oh, that's hilarious. Okay, we're limited in time, but

831
00:49:48.599 --> 00:49:52.559
we I want to talk about Joker. Folly Adieu m

832
00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:55.920
A rated two hours and eighteen minutes second installment of Joker.

833
00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:59.840
Really controversial a musical. Who would have thunk it a

834
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:06.039
notwithstanding there's Lady Gaga there. Hardly mainstream entertainment. It's got

835
00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:11.199
the feel of a strong and decidedly dark independent movie,

836
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:15.000
which I actually appreciated because of the layers within it,

837
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:18.400
and like he did so brilliantly in Joker, Wuck in

838
00:50:18.519 --> 00:50:22.440
Phoenix is quite a revelation. As Arthur Fleck aka Joker,

839
00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:27.039
he's in prison awaiting trial for the murder spree that

840
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:31.920
Joker went on, slaying five or is that six people

841
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:34.840
in quick time, including one on live television, and he

842
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:38.679
appears to be this forlorn character, not responding to the

843
00:50:38.679 --> 00:50:42.800
guard's taunts to tell him a joke. One who does

844
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:45.719
reward him for good behavior, though, is Jackie Sullivan played

845
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:48.719
by Brendan Gleeson, who takes him along to a music

846
00:50:48.800 --> 00:50:51.400
therapy session, and that's where he connects with an inmate

847
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:56.280
by the name of Lee Quinzel aka Harley Quinn. That's

848
00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:59.119
the Lady Garga role, and she claims she's from the

849
00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:02.440
same neighborhood as Arthur Fleck and had a terrible home

850
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:08.000
life being institutionalized by her mother. She is driven to Joker,

851
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:10.880
and Joker is driven to her, or Arthur Fleck is

852
00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:14.000
driven to her. The pair starts an intense relationship in

853
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:20.239
which they fantasize about what might be. Meanwhile, Fleck's legal representative,

854
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:24.000
Mary Anne Stewart played by Katherine Keener, is trying to

855
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:28.480
convince him to play along with her defense strategy of

856
00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:33.000
a split personality. In other words, he didn't do it, it

857
00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:36.960
was my alter ego. The court case sees a groundswell

858
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:41.800
of support for Joker Lee who is Lee Quinzel, who's

859
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:46.639
increasingly influencing Arthur Fleck's decision making is at odds with

860
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:54.079
his lawyer, and basically the former, who has adopted the

861
00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:57.320
Harley Quinn makeup and dress sense, tells Arthur Fleck that

862
00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:00.679
he can do anything right. So Lee Quinzel says, you

863
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:04.400
can do anything you want. Written by Scott Silver and

864
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:09.400
directed by Todd Phillips, the combination behind Joker Follier Dueu

865
00:52:09.559 --> 00:52:13.360
delves deep into mental illness and psychosis, so dreams and

866
00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:16.960
hallucinations play a large part, and this is often when

867
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:19.960
Lady Garga and work in Phoenix are seen singing together,

868
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:23.639
and in one scene Phoenix actually resorts to tap dancing.

869
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:26.679
I thought there was a potent connection between them. I

870
00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:29.480
thought Gleeson was memorable as the guard who gives Fleck

871
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:32.599
some latitude, and I also appreciated the cameo of Steve

872
00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:36.440
Coogan as a tabloid television interviewer Patti Myers, who the

873
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:39.960
legal eagle Stewart lines up to question Arthur Fleck before

874
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:43.320
the trial. Music is an undoubted feature of the work,

875
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:45.880
and although I dare say a lot of people, as

876
00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:48.559
they already have, will find that out of place, not me.

877
00:52:48.840 --> 00:52:52.800
I thought the choices were appropriate, so to the period

878
00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:56.480
production values that are associated with this movie. Look, it

879
00:52:56.599 --> 00:52:59.960
is divisive. It's divisive among critics, it's divisive among the

880
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:02.679
fee paying public, many of whom will find it hard

881
00:53:02.719 --> 00:53:05.559
going and not to their liking, apart from thinking that

882
00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:08.280
it was twenty minutes too long. But I'm in the

883
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:12.559
positive camp. I mean, I thought what Phoenix Gaga and

884
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:17.119
the writers and director brought to the table was actually compelling,

885
00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:20.760
dive into the abyss. That's the essence of a troubled

886
00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:25.719
mind or too, as is the case in the representation

887
00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:31.400
of both Joker and Harley Quinn. So yeah, I might

888
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:34.719
be in the minority, but I appreciated the film. People

889
00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:36.400
who are going along thinking it's going to be a

890
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:40.519
replica of the first well it's not, and it never

891
00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:43.079
should have been. So you know, what's the problem with

892
00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:43.559
A Jackie.

893
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:46.559
I don't have a problem with it at all. I

894
00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:50.199
did struggle with it to start with, because there is

895
00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:52.679
a thought that when you're going into it as a sequel,

896
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:56.480
that you're going to see something of the same genre

897
00:53:56.760 --> 00:54:01.599
or feel or But I thought, you know, in reflection,

898
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:06.920
that it actually grew a lot more from the original,

899
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:09.559
which I really enjoyed. I didn't enjoy this as much,

900
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:12.239
but I could see why it was like it is,

901
00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:15.760
as John McDonald in the Financial Review calls it possibly

902
00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:17.199
the most depressing.

903
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:17.880
Musical of all time.

904
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:22.239
The films weren't my favorite thing about it. I didn't

905
00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:24.679
like the choices of songs all the time, and I

906
00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:27.599
didn't like because I didn't feel they drove the narrative.

907
00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:30.360
You know, it was in my mind, did Lady Guard

908
00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:33.079
choose these because she likes them and she sings them well?

909
00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:35.519
And I think a lot of the songs made were

910
00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:40.079
the fault that made the film too long. However, that aside,

911
00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:43.920
I did. I did like the way that it presented

912
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:50.800
the mental disorder scenario, the fantasy sequences and the mental

913
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:53.840
madeem if you like, and the influence of others on

914
00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:57.280
him and on the Joker and Joker on the others,

915
00:54:58.039 --> 00:55:01.199
the courtroom scene in you know, it made sense to

916
00:55:01.239 --> 00:55:04.000
me of why it was done this way. And I

917
00:55:04.039 --> 00:55:08.719
think the film The Joker too was brave, and it

918
00:55:08.840 --> 00:55:13.679
was sad and as you say, compelling, you know, partly repulsive,

919
00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:17.199
and had a lot in it that wasn't lovely, but

920
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:18.480
it made sense to make.

921
00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:21.639
And now Peter only in forty seconds and Greg as well.

922
00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:23.559
I'm afraid we could talk a bit further next week.

923
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:24.559
Did you like it or not?

924
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:28.360
Peter, I'm on the fence with this one because I

925
00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:30.519
think it was a bit of a mess in terms

926
00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:35.880
of its fusion of music, Some of the songs seemed irrelevant,

927
00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:42.719
and the idea of bipolar not split personality, that term

928
00:55:42.760 --> 00:55:46.320
doesn't exist, which I thought.

929
00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:51.480
I've just created it y yes, yes, okay, Greg King

930
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:53.440
in forty seconds.

931
00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:56.679
This is a bleak mips of prison drama, courtroom drama,

932
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:59.599
old fashioned musical. But I thought it was a little clunky.

933
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:03.599
Tony is unneven. Not every element works there, and I

934
00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:06.119
feel it was overly long and one hundred and thirty

935
00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:09.119
eight minutes for what I had to say, and it

936
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:12.840
lacked the same sense of dramatic tension and uneasy as

937
00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:16.000
the original. But Whichael Phoenis is great in it with

938
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:18.280
his performance there, but I don't think there's any real

939
00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:20.199
chemistry between him and Lady Gaga.

940
00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:23.760
Really, okay. Score out of ten Peter, I give it

941
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:28.159
five out of ten, Greg five out of ten, Jackie

942
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:31.400
seven out of ten, eight out of ten for mine,

943
00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:35.559
thank you very much for your valuable contribution Jacqueline. Thank you,

944
00:56:35.679 --> 00:56:38.960
Peter Kraus, thank you, Gregory King. You've been listening to

945
00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:41.679
First On Film and Entertainment, and we are going to

946
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:46.000
be doing it again awfully soon, so listen out. Have

947
00:56:46.039 --> 00:56:46.920
a great week, folks,