S03E13: A Quiet Place Day One: Prequels and Plot Holes

First on film and entertainment. What does a really good thriller look like

Alex First: First on film and entertainment. A very good day to you all. And we are going to be talking about some pretty special movies. We're talking about Jacqui Hammerton, Greg King, Peter Krause and yours truly, Alex first. G'day, folks. Now, I, um. Um. I've always sort of thought, all right, what. What does a really good thriller look like? And I suppose one example of that is a quiet place that really hit us between the eyes. What? Back in 2018. And we then had a sequel, 2020, and now they've come back with the prequel. So the third instalment being the prequel, with no longer Emily Blunt but a very fine actor as the pivotal character in this one. So I thought we'd start there. And we will talk about a quiet place, day one. Hardly an inventive title, but there you go. You've got. You've got it. So, look, it could. I reckon this could have been renamed, um, how to avoid a catastrophe. Because they. They give a hell of a lot of screen time, do they not? Jacqui Hammerton to a moggy.

Jaqui Hammerton: They do to frodo the cat, played by two cats called Schnitzel and Nico.

Greg King: Ah.

Alex First: Uh, here you go.

Jaqui Hammerton: There's a little detail for you.

Alex First: You've gone into feline detail. I'm most impressed by this. Now, I know that you are a dog lover. Are, uh, you a cat lover or not?

Jaqui Hammerton: Oh, yes. I've always had cats all my life, up until I started having dogs. There you go. I'm a turncoat. Um, and the cat is used to good effect in a thriller because you're always on the edge of your seat that the cat's going to give you away, aren't you? Because they're unpredictable creatures, cats.

Greg King: I'm surprised.

Peter Krause: Meow.

Jaqui Hammerton: M more often did knock me out once.

Alex First: Very expressive cat, don't you think, Peter?

Peter Krause: It certainly was. It's the star of the film, in fact.

Jaqui Hammerton: Well, maybe an Academy award.

Alex First: Oh, very nice look. Would you say picture perfect?

Greg King: Could be.

Alex First: Sorry, Greg, these are the. These are the old man jokes that you come up with. Come on and join the fray, dad joints.

Greg King: You're covering it perfectly well between years. I don't need to put my four cent worth in.

Alex First: Well, perfectly well, thank you.

You changed your name to Deet Pole because nobody could spell it

This is an origin story, and, um, more specifically, the focus is on a woman named Samira, known as Sam, and she's played by a brilliant actor called the Peter Nyong'o. She won an Oscar, did she not?

Jaqui Hammerton: Yes.

Alex First: Correct. Now she's struggling, she's in pain, she's on meds, and she lives in a hospice outside the city and we're talking about New York City in particular. And, well, basically, unfortunately, she's a cancer patient who's, uh, all but given up on life. So on the proviso that he get her a pizza, Sam reluctantly agrees to let a care worker by the name of Reuben played bye Alex Wolf take her and other patients to a show in town, right in the city. Now, I've got to tell you a personal story at this point. This is giving of myself. I changed my name by Deet Pole because nobody could spell my name. And I used to like to order pizzas and I changed my name by deep pole accordingly. True story. There you go. Did any of you know that?

Jaqui Hammerton: Yes.

Alex First: Very good. One out of three. Okay, so there you go. Um. Um.

Jaqui Hammerton: The second could even spell your original name, I believe.

Alex First: No, we won't do that.

Jaqui Hammerton: Um, I won't do it.

Alex First: I also got rid of my middle name because I didn't like it. Paid $10. There you go. There were two. Two phases in my life. Uh, so I did that and, uh, it was a really easy thing to do. Having said that, it wasn't just because of pizza. It was also because when I got into the media, it was far better to have it as a name that you could spell. Do you know how many people still cannot spell? When I give them my surname, they still can't spell it. They struggle to accept that it's an actual surname.

Jaqui Hammerton: Maybe it's the way you say it.

Alex First: Perhaps it is. Well, when you speak to people on the telephone and even when you spell things out, I reckon that they confuse the letter B for Bob with v for victory. Have any of you noticed that you're generalising?

Jaqui Hammerton: I am hugely here.

Alex First: Well, that's what I do. It's like when I say, the mighty fighting Essendon football machine, the greatest side on the planet. Right? Am I generalising? Eps are bloody lately. Yes.

The aliens arrive as comets from the sky and leave a path of destruction

All right, let's get back into a quiet place. Day one. And there's nothing quiet about what's happened. The mighty bombers at the g on Friday nights. There we go. All right, talking about noise. Boy, there was a lot of noise. Anyway, we are now at this show in town with Sam and that's when the aliens. And look, they do remind. The critters that are in this remind me of the alien movies. They start arriving and they. They appear as comets from the sky and even the slightest noise can trigger them in numbers. And of course, they leave a path of destruction in their wake. So these are creatures that are blind, noise sensitive and don't like water. That's my summary. Is that correct, Greg?

Greg King: Uh, possibly, yes. Sounds like any hippie.

Alex First: Thank you. So buildings are torn apart, cars are destroyed, they're overturned, there's debris everywhere. Now Sam and Reuben, Reuben being the care worker, remain holed up and silent in the theatre where they've gone to see a. This, uh. What is it? A puppet show? Anyway, but that doesn't last too long. Soon enough, Sam's on the move with Frodo being the cat. And now I found this a bit strange. There's an all points bulletin to evacuate the city and the evacuation is from helicopters. Well, hang on. Don't the creatures fly up and destroy the helicopters or do they fly above the parapet? I wasn't quite clear about that, Jacqui. Can you clear that up for me, blairs? Because that.

Jaqui Hammerton: I don't think they can, uh, elevate themselves that high to a helicopter can that. Well, obviously they can't because they didn't. Well, it doesn't matter because they're made up creatures anyway and they just do whatever the director.

Alex First: No, but I. Yeah, but I don't.

Greg King: Think they knew that. Knew that their powers when they first arrived at that, you know, that they were attracted to San. That would have taken a while to figure out, but, uh.

Alex First: But by then they destroyed all sorts of parts of the city. So I think Jackie's explanation is that they can't leap that eye. Peter, have you got an answer?

Peter Krause: No, but it is an example of one of many plot gaps in the film.

Alex First: Oh, cousins. Yeah, you've. Yes, you've given us, uh. Ah, you've given something away before we're even there. But there you go.

Peter Sheridan: I think this sequel is suitably intimidating and scary

Okay, so with all these, this destruction, uh, and all of that stuff, you've basically got city being cleared and people be asked to head south via boats on the waterfront. Why boats? As I've said, the creatures can't swim. But Sam still wants her pizza like I did when I changed my name in Harlem. Now, why in Harlem? Because it's a nod to her late father who played at a pub in Harlem. So she goes alone with Frodo although, uh, the puss wanders off only to return with this deeply fearful young british law student called Eric played by Joseph Quinn in tow. And she tells Eric not to follow her. He doesn't listen. And the rest of the plot is devoted to the pair of them as they sort of navigate their sort of journey, whatever it might happen to be. So, yeah, it's kind of, um. They go through the Manhattan streets, because that's where they are. The buildings, the subway system. And of course, there are many close encounters with the creatures who strike with a great deal of speed and force. And the story's by John Krasinski, who, of course, is Emily Blunt's husband, who was also, uh, responsible for the first two instalments and was heavily features in particular in the first one and the story also by Michael Sarnoski, who you guys must have seen pig, that was back in 2021. Um, and the, um. And he also writes and directs day one, Michael Sarnozki. So, look, you can see this film. I, uh, think this is important. When you make a sequel, even though this is a prequel sequel, you make it so that you could see it without having seen the other ones. And it still makes sense, I reckon. You can see this without seeing the others, and it's fine. What do you think, Jacqui?

Jaqui Hammerton: Oh, yeah, absolutely. You could see this without the others, but why would you when the others are so far, so much more superior?

Alex First: Well, again, you're given something away, but that's good.

Jaqui Hammerton: Second, uh, isn't that what I'm here for?

Alex First: You are. Exactly. It's. I still think it's suitably intimidating and scary. There are several.

Jaqui Hammerton: Really. Are you scared?

Alex First: Yes. You were.

Jaqui Hammerton: You're a delicate creature, aren't you, Alex?

Alex First: I am very, very sensitive, you know, be conscious of that when you're speaking with me. Be respectful. Thank you. Did you not find it frightening, Peter?

Peter Krause: Not at all. In fact, I found it quite sanitised.

Alex First: On your bike. On your bike, Greg.

Jaqui Hammerton: And stupid.

Alex First: And stupid. Greg, any scanning?

Greg King: I had a few moments here, but it wasn't as scary as the first two films.

Alex First: But at least the voice of reason there that these are. I mean, these are large, lightning fast, ugly, slimy creatures. They're like Carlton supporters, right, but they're not real, Alec.

Greg King: Sort of.

Jaqui Hammerton: Carlton supporters are real.

Alex First: Oh, no. Uh.

Greg King: You'Re coming out of the woodwork at the moment.

Alex First: They believe their own narrative. I was sent the. This is another aside. I was sent a very ugly piece of video footage yesterday, uh, obviously by a Carlton supporter, where they predict that they are, ah, going to beat Collingwood by 125 points in this year's grand final. Right. And they've actually got very, very good football callers calling the end of the game. It's sickening. It really is sickening. Let's get back to a, uh, quiet place, day one.

Greg: I thought Lupita Nyong'o was terrific in the film

Okay, you've made your views perfectly clear. What about Lupita Nyong'o? Did you not think she was excellent in the lead, Jacqui?

Jaqui Hammerton: Well, she's the only good thing about the film, really.

Alex First: Right.

Jaqui Hammerton: She has a face that shows fear. Uh, like almost no other actor I could think of. She her eyes go wide, and she has to be completely silent, of course. And she she shows I terror through every pore of her skin, in her face. She is brilliant like that. So all of my score is for her.

Alex First: Okay, so you're a champion fella, Peter. Nyonga. I mean, really strong, Will. Really disciplined. And yeah, those eyes speak volumes. The camera loves those eyes. Don't you agree, Greg? I mean, the eyes were terrific.

Greg King: Uh, they were? Yeah. As Jacqui said, she displayed fear quite effectively there in some of those scenes. Well, I thought, um, Joshua Quinn did a good job too, as, uh, Lloyd.

Alex First: Yeah, well, but m hang on, Peter. Uh, that fear is the fear I have when my eyes meet yours. And I start talking to you about football. And you've got no knowledge of it whatsoever. Is that not correct, Peter?

Peter Krause: It is correct. Because I always nod off as soon as you talk anything related to football.

Alex First: It's very sad, really.

Peter: I had a big problem with the cat, with Frodo

Okay. So, um, what about Eric, the Joseph Quinn character? I mean, he sort of he really wants to ingratiate himself into Sam's life. Give her something she desperately needs. And you know, that being renewed joy, what, uh, did you think of, um, the character of Eric? Jacqui? No merits.

Jaqui Hammerton: I just didn't even get him. He changed kind of personality through the through the film. I guess you could call that, uh, you know, a shift in the film. But it didn't work for me at all. I just didn't have any interest in him at all.

Alex First: Oh, uh, Greg, any interest in Eric?

Greg King: I just mentioned I thought he did a reasonably good job.

Alex First: Yes. Yeah. Peter, do you, uh sorry. You hated everything about the movie. So you didn't like Eric?

Peter Krause: I didn't say I hated everything. I mean, Lapita is superb, but I must say the cat is just absolutely superbtainous.

Greg King: He's a scene stealer.

Alex First: The cat is a scene stealer. I wonder what the cat got paid compared to the other actors. You know, they give me probably Kimmy whiskers.

Jaqui Hammerton: I had I had a big problem with the cat, with Frodo. Because to me, it was the most deliberate attempt to, um, introduce tension through the film. And we're talking about people who I mean, they are this is their lives they're about. They've seen, what was it, hundreds or thousands in the body count. Being dragged away and ripped away by these aliens. And yet they're prepared to risk that themselves for a cat that might meow or jump up on a beam or go trotting down the road, stand on some broken glass, whatever, make a noise. And to me, that it just didn't work. That that it was too deliberate a point to introduce tension.

Alex First: But it introduces the sensibilities that we have. Many of us have. And I mean, my wife, you're a good example where, you know, my wife thinks much more of animals than she thinks of people. And you probably do too, Jacqui. So, I mean, we all care for our pets and their clothes. Doesn't that make sense then?

Jaqui Hammerton: Well, I thought I thought more of the catch than of the director. Put it like that.

Alex First: Wow. Okay. Well, then, then Alex Wolf, I mean, the the carer, I thought he had a significant role at the very beginning. And we're not going to have, uh, spoilers here, but, uh, you know, she encourages Sam to press on regardless of her condition.

Jaqui Hammerton: No, well, he was a bit ho hum. I mean, the issue with the whole film isn't. Yeah, it's it's that the the story doesn't progress. There's no. There's no mystery at all here. It's thrown out there in the first five minutes of what's happening. We all know what the aliens can and can't do and, uh, what the risk is with them and the story. There's no mystery. And the story just doesn't develop. It's like just to keep trying to not get killed by the aliens and do stupid things and try and get a pizza. I mean, you know, and there's. And even the characters don't develop in the plot because they can't talk to each other. There's no dialogue. So we don't find out stuff about them. And we don't see that emotional connection build. And we don't see how they interact because it's. Because by necessity of the aliens, it has to be silent. Or maybe Emily Blunt and, uh, John Krasinski did it better in a quiet place. In a quiet place too.

Peter says he thought the cinematography was okay in this film

Alex First: Well, okay, let's talk about a couple of other elements. Firstly, they do link to the previous one, part two with Jimon Munso, who well, if you remember part two, he was a leader of an island colony of survivors. He gets a very small role here. They hadn't named him, actually, in part two, they give him the name Henri here. And the other thing that I wanted to mention is visually, I thought from the opening aerial shot, it's quite striking. I thought Pat scholar, the cinematographer, who by the way, worked with the director on Pigeous. I thought he captured the destruction, the desolation, the desperation of that city quite finely, with some distinction. Did you not think the cinematography was okay, Peter?

Peter Krause: Look, it was well shot, but then so many films are very well shot. And I have to say, um, a lot of this film, as I mentioned earlier, is sanitised. The violence, um, the uh, death angels, um, as these creatures, uh, are called. A lot of it happens off screen and there's a lot that is not explained in this film.

The contrast between sound and silence is critical in this film, Greg says

Alex First: Well, the other thing is that the contrast between sound and silence is critical and the impact of the picture. That's where I thought the music by Alexis Grapses, who also worked on pig also had a vital role to play. In terms of the picture. Did that not strike you as being important, Greg? Um.

Greg King: Um, well look, some of it took, a lot of it took place in dark or confined places which added to a claustrophobic atmosphere. But as I said, this one didn't grab me as much as the first two films. Um, um, I didn't, apart from the cat, I didn't really fear for any of the characters.

Alex First: That's interesting because I mean, they were snatched very quickly and disposed of quickly. Uh, uh, unlike you, I was engaged from the outset. I thought the first, if you like, three quarters was better than the end where, you know, really it was just that they went to the line to give, give a bit of hope and so on and so forth. But I did find it quite engaging. So.

Peter: I would have loved more explanation about the water issue

All right, well, Peter, do you have, apart from saying some nice things about the cat and Lupita nyong'o, was there anything else redeemable or not?

Peter Krause: Actually, no. Uh, and I would have loved more explanation about the water issue that, uh, these creatures seem, uh, to hate and also about the whole family.

Alex First: Sorry, sorry. Let's, let's take one at a time. When you say you wanted more about the water, if they, they can't swim, they drown. Uh, what more do you need?

Peter Krause: But, but I, again, there's no backstory, no, uh, no particular understanding about why these creatures are the way they are, uh, why they invaded earth, what their point is, uh, it uh, it just seems just like a standard b grade horror movie.

Alex First: Mhm. Do you think we needed an explanation, Jacqui?

Jaqui Hammerton: I certainly wanted more to the story and I would say c grade horror movie rather than b grade.

Alex: The cinematography of this film looks very CGI effective

And Alex, when you talk about the cinematography and that. Yeah, uh, I would like Greg to try and count how many films in the past ten years have involved great cinematography of a city being destroyed. I mean, that was almost the reason for this film was so you could, you know, destroy the crap out of New York City. And it always looks very CGI effective.

Greg King: Well, some of those shots of the dust in that going through New York at that time when the creatures first landed, I was flashing back to, um, September 11.

Jaqui Hammerton: I reckon they got the idea from that. Yeah, but I mean, that was three minutes of the film, you know, so it's one, one could be a minute.

Alex First: You know, there's also, there's we're going to see something this coming week called Twisters, which again, you've seen that. I presume you've seen the trailer. Uh, and you know, again, it's, it's very much about things being picked up and destroyed. I mean, that's fair enough, isn't it? And I, uh. Did you think it was all CGI? Did you think it looked CGI? Did you, Jacqui? All that?

Jaqui Hammerton: I don't know that I thought it looked that way. Just knowing in my mind that it was made it, you know, but then he. One step away from us, not destroyed for this film.

Alex First: Yeah, but if we met, if we see a movie about the end of the world or potential end of the world or whatever, what would you like to see filmmakers do that wasn't done in this movie?

Jaqui Hammerton: Well, nothing. It's just that it's been done so many times before. I mean, what was it earlier this year where Rio was completely destroyed? Was that, was that the.

Alex First: Mhm.

Greg King: Godzilla. That was Godzilla.

Jaqui Hammerton: Godzilla, yeah. I mean, that was similarly wonderfully effective, but obviously not real because I went to Rio, um, two weeks after that and it was perfectly calm and beautiful. So we know, we know already in our mind it's not real.

Alex First: I'm pleased that you had, at least in your head that the Rio may have been destroyed and. Oh, Jake, very good. Uh, so, all right. Uh, is there anything more to say about this film, Greg, that you can give a little bit of warmth to it or not really?

Greg King: Not really? No. I think we've said it all.

Jackie: There was no element of surprise for me in this film

Alex First: Okay, well, let's get some scores, starting with me highballing it. I'm giving a quiet place, day one, which runs for. I thought the running time was fine. 100 minutes m rated. I'm giving it a seven and a half. Okay, great. I liked it.

Greg King: Good on you. I'll give it six.

Alex First: Right. Okay. So, Jacqui, shouldn't a film like this.

Jaqui Hammerton: Have an element of surprise to it? Even if it's a, even if it's an origin story.

Alex First: Well, I'm sorry, when you say element.

Jaqui Hammerton: Of spirit and an origin story, when. When you've already had two actually quite excellent films that are thrillers horrors, but not horror horror. More like a thriller horror. Um, if I can differentiate there, if you've already had two that were really quite classy films, beautifully acted, and they did very well. And then you go back to an origin story. You want to find out, and Peter mentioned this, you want to find out what the origin of this is, not just, oh, they arrived, but why and how and the ins and outs of it. So there was no element of surprise for me and no element of mystery and mystery getting solved. Um, I gave a quiet place day one, three out of ten.

Alex First: Oh, my God, Lee, I'm sorry. As far as I'm concerned, when you have a different actor who you already said is excellent, uh, and you're only giving her a three out of ten.

Jaqui Hammerton: Effectively, yeah, I gave her three out of ten, so I gave it film really a zero. Because, look, honestly, tell you the truth, I wasn't scared and I wasn't bored. I mean, I wasn't scared and I was bored. Sorry.

Alex First: Okay. No, but, but to me, I had no idea what the backstory was going to be, but I thought she was terrific. I thought that the way they set it up was fine, and I thought it looked good. So. Okay, now, Peter, can you, can you, um, topple three out of ten?

Peter Krause: I'll try to. I've got the cat next to me and she's whispering, ah, a score to me. But for me, it's always about the story. And, uh, I can only give it four out of ten.

Alex First: Oh, so you're giving it up. So Jackie's low balled it. Wow. Okay, so now, hang on. Let's, let's do some arithmetic here, please. Greg, get your human calculator out. Seven plus 613.

Jaqui Hammerton: No, but Greg hasn't given his score.

Alex First: Yes, he has. Six.

Jaqui Hammerton: Oh. Oh, he did two. Oh, I'm sorry I missed that.

Greg King: A lot of people do that when I start talking.

Alex First: So. All right, so we're 13 and a half. 13 and a half plus seven. There you go. Is 20 and a half divided by it passes. There you go, folks. Please go and see it. Acquired place, day one. There you go, J. Yeah. 88 FM. More of this nonsense. And I tell you what, if you want to become a member of the station, please do. Community radio needs your support. $54. That's what it cost you a year. And, yeah, the more the merrier. Please. 24 hours a day. Some intelligent and some less intelligent. No, no, we shouldn't demean our own show. Uh, programming and lots of good music as well on jair 88 FM. M m I. Okay.

Peter Tommarty: The Bike Riders is rated airmena

Motorcycle outlaw. Motorcycle gangs, well, they've been the bane of, uh, many cities. And I suppose when you think about bike riders and, uh, outlaws, et cetera, I suppose you do think about the United States. Well, this one, the bike riders, which is rated airmena, runs for nearly 2 hours, 116 minutes, to be exact, was inspired by reflections of a particular photojournalist who spent four years as a member of a particular motorcycle club called the Chicago Outlaws. And this one, the Bike Riders, really, it's about testosterone and based around a, uh, fictional biker gang known as the Vandals, also based in Chicago, and its founder, Johnny, uh, Davis, played by Tom Hardy. Now, Tom Hardy plays himself very well, doesn't he, Peter?

Peter Krause: He's very good.

Alex First: Ah.

Peter Krause: I mean, he was in Mad Max, of course, and, uh, he's a very good actor.

Alex First: Yeah. I mean, m he plays similar roles. And this is what I'm saying. He plays himself, but he's always very solid. I. Whenever I see Tom Hardy, I think, yeah, I'm in for a good time, because he. He knows how to channel that sort of deepest incent. Incentivized self. Is that how you see him, Jacqui, or not? Tommarty?

Jaqui Hammerton: Oh, yes. He is a very fine actor, but he does play a particular. He's becoming a bit known for a particular role, I think. Particular character, if you like.

Alex First: Yeah. Characterization as such.

What's your view of Tom Hardy as a performer, as an actor

What's your view of Tom Hardy as a performer, as an actor? Can he do. Is he diverse enough in terms of.

Greg King: He has a strong screen presence. Um. Um. But mumbles a bit too much for me sometimes. Hard to understand what he's saying.

Alex First: Oh. Ah, okay. Yeah. Well, look, in this one. Okay. He's married with a couple of children. In this one, he's. We don't see him do this. He. He's a truck driver, although all we serve him is as this brooding and ruthless leader of the vandals. And his most trusted associate is a thrill seeker called Benny Cross, played by Austin Butler. Horrible to look at. Uh, Jacqui, would you agree? Oh, well, would you put up with him? Yeah. Uh, okay.

Greg King: Put it that way.

Alex First: That's less than enthusiastic.

Jaqui Hammerton: Jacqueline, look, he very much channels James Dean in the way that he presents himself. And you could say because he was so successful and so beloved in the recent film Elvis, um, that you could see Elvis in him too. But definitely when you're talking about the movie idea, it's James Dean you're thinking of all the time. And he plays to that very strongly and quite successfully.

Alex First: Yeah, I mean, he doesn't. He really doesn't say much, but, uh, he never shies away from a fight.

The Bike riders unfolds between 1965 and 1973 through interviews with club members

And this is a story, the bike riders that unfolds between 1965 and 1973 through interviews conducted by the photojournalist I mentioned at the outset. You know, these are interviews with club members and their partners. And in particular, the focus is on Benny's wife, Cathy, played by Jody Comer, who I thought did a really good job, meets Benny by chance at a bar frequented by this gang. And at the time, she's got a boyfriend. A moment later, the boyfriend's gone, only to be replaced by Benny, who literally parks himself on her doorstep or opposite her, uh, doorstep. There's a street in between. But the intimidation that she felt by the bikers when she first entered the bar to meet her girlfriend is gone. And five weeks later, she marries Betty. So we see how the club was formed, how important a role it plays in the lives of its members. And look, to many of them, it's the be all and end all. And those include Johnny and Benny. But we also get potted portraits of the others, too. We might not get full backstories, but we get a feel for, I don't know, half, uh, a dozen, a dozen, whatever it is, ten of them that are gang members. And soon chapters of the vandals are springing up all over the midwest. But not before Johnny's challenge to a fistfight for control of the Chicago operation. Because one of the rules they institute, if anybody wants to challenge, they can. But, uh, it's kind of a stack deck is the best way I can put it. So Benny's loyalty to Johnny is tested. After Benny is stood over in a bar for wearing club colours, a couple of guys, couple of heavies come in and say, you know, you can't do that here. And, uh, unfortunately, from Benny's point of view, he's badly injured. Not that it seems to trouble him too much, but thereafter, Betty's relationship with his wife gets quite a workout. So violence and fear, there we go again. Significant parts of the gang's culture, and that's manifest throughout the bike riders. I say there we go again, because obviously of the. The quiet place that we just. Or a quiet place, day one that we just spoke about. But look, they've got their own rules of engagement. And, um, although intimidatory, those rules of engagement are nothing on the new generation that's coming through, coming really to supplant them. So it's quite sinister, uh, in terms of what the lengths that the newbies are going to go to. Whereas you get the feeling that the writer and the director, Jeff Nichols, who did movies like take shelter and loving, he maintains a kind of a, uh, respect for the original gang. The gang that started up, the vandals, if you like, or the person. The person and the persons that were involved in the original gang. And the starting point for this particular work, the Bike riders, was a seminal book written by Danny Lyons in 1968.

I thought Jody Comer did a great job in the film

And, uh, I mentioned, I thought Jody Comer did a great job. Really strong midwestern accent. Uh, she's really arguably the heartbeat of the movie, isn't she, Jacqui?

Jaqui Hammerton: Oh, definitely. I think she is. Well, she is because she's set up to be almost the narrator, if you like, because she's telling the story from her point of view. Um, but she's got great rest. The accent she worked very hard on. Love that accent. And, um, remembering her from the role I've seen her in, that I was most impressed by was prima facie, which was the one woman show. So I'm a big rap for Jody Comey.

Alex First: When you. I didn't see her in private, Basie. I saw it as a theatrical performance. Did you see. Was that national theatre live or what do you.

Jaqui Hammerton: Yes, it was national theatre live. And she. She took the role, um, the legal. Legal story.

Alex First: Legal story, yeah. I mean, I. Look, I thought she really told a story, warts and all. But she told it in such a way as Kathy. She was proud, she was unashamed to. There was no pretence. And there's a fearless quality about her character, Peter, which. Which really appealed to me. What about you?

Peter Krause: Oh, she is superb in the film. And, uh, I agree about prima facie.

This, uh, is a film that really surprised me, I must admit

This, uh, is a film that really surprised me, I must admit. I wasn't looking forward to seeing the film again about bikers and about the gangs and about, uh, violence and so on. But, um, Jeff Nichols, who also directed Muddy, um, has fashioned a really interesting fictional story based on that book of 100 photographs of, um, vikings in 1968. And what he's done is he's very clever. He's made it into a strong cultural and personal story about how, uh, the various members of the vandals interrelate and how they progressed through various, uh, incidents and events. I also have to say it's great to see two australian actors in the film, Damon Herriman, uh, and Toby Wallace in particular, who plays the young Turk who uh. Provides a pivotal performance in the film. There is a lot to admire in uh. Fact. Uh. It's a plant's easy rider and wild angels and other of those bitey films by turning them into cultural observations about real people.

Alex First: Um.

Peter Krause: And uh. The way they interact and what happens to them. So I was quite impressed by the film. The acting was ah. Was superb and um. Uh. It was really well filmed.

Tom Hardy and Austin Butler play Johnny and Johnny respectively in the film

Alex First: Well, Tom Hardy uh. Really measured, hardened, quite astute as Johnny. He's got this world weary look about him, Greg, doesn't he? I mean that's how I. I would say, uh, he is portrayed. And I reckon as Austin Butler is the sort of picture of fire and restraint he's got. Enigmatic and uh. I mean what really distinguishes him, these explosions of peak right contrast quite sharply with that of a fellow who wants to be left to his own devices. So he wants to be left alone. But he's ready to sort of put uh. Up the dukes and uh. Defend others. Honoured. Uh. What did you think of those two characterisations?

Greg King: Yeah, I thought Butler brought a brooding, taciturn apology to his performance here. He's an enigmatic character, a little bit also hot headed, self destructive and unpredictable. A um. Bit of a wild card there. But he mainly plays second fiddle to Hardy, I think, here. And Hardy mumbles his way through the role as he was channelling Brando's iconic performance from the wild one. Um. There's a bit of a love that is the freedom of the bikies, um, the freedom of the camaraderie, but also mentioned the toxic masculinity of this world as well. Um. But I. Unlike you guys, I had a bit of a problem with the Jody comer, Cassie's narration there. It was fine. There's a way to introduce the whole world there, you know, being interviewed by this Danny Lyon character, setting uh, the scene there. But I thought that constantly going back to her all the way through the film interrupted and slowed down the momentum of the film. Annoyed the big jeez out of me by the end of the film, really.

Alex First: I looked forward to hearing her observations because they were so sort of matter of fact, Greg. And uh. That's what I think made them so compelling. It wasn't as if she was pushing a view. It was sort of drawn out of her by the interview. I thought that was.

Greg King: No, I just thought. I just sort of slowed down the uh. Pacing and uh. The film.

Alex First: Well, okay, well what about like uh. Michael Shannon is always good. He doesn't have a big role. But I thought he was one of the other standouts of zip code that a gang member. He doesn't. He doesn't run with the college boys, does he? Did you like him?

Greg King: He was okay. He's a regular.

Alex First: Um, yes.

Greg King: And also Norman readers from the Walking Dead. There was also a bit of an interesting character. Um, some of the characters, but we didn't get enough of it. But some of these characters, understandable, a bit there also MACd lacking some of that.

Alex First: But I mean, ultimately there was this camaraderie about them that they liked being part of something. Jacqui, was that not enough?

Jaqui Hammerton: I wanted to know why they needed individually, the backstory is why they needed to be, um, a part of this bikie gang. For all the talk that went on I really didn't leave the film feeling. I got to know the guys there. The lead. There might have been half a dozen. I would have liked to have known more about what brought them there and their backstory. Instead probably overdid the cathy talking, um, and ran out of time for that. I did want them all very much to have a shower.

Peter: I liked the look of the film, but not the pacing

I think that was my biggest problem with the film, wasn't I liked the look of it and the setup and the setting and the place for cinematography and that. Um. And thank you, Peter, for describing it as cultural and personal story there. But I just couldn't.

Alex First: Couldn't, um.

Jaqui Hammerton: Get, uh, into the story of, as you said, the toxic masculinity, the alcohol, the drugs, the abuse of women. They didn't seem to value. They didn't seem to have. Well, a couple of them had jobs but that it didn't seem. There was no priority in their lives of that priority. They were so self absorbed and actually quick to anger and jealousy and they were quite unattractive. And as I said, they needed a shower. And I just. I just didn't like the place I was in when I was with them.

Alex First: M well, I thought there was a literal. A bit of a lyrical quality of the storytelling. Jacqui, which details the start and end of an era. Is that not. That wasn't enough for you? I mean, the pacing. Uh, not enough, no, the pacing. What did you. What would you say about the basing? Because it was.

Greg King: It had, uh.

Alex First: A deliberate. It wasn't a rat. There was a bit of breathing space. And I liked that. I. I thought that was one of the features of the. The production. Peter?

Peter Krause: Oh, absolutely. The pacing was just right. It. I, uh, really got into the story which, as I said, surprised me because I didn't think I was going to be interested in this, uh, group of bikers.

Adam Stone: I thought the cinematography captured the spirit of the time

Alex First: Well, the other thing about it was the cinematography. And I know I focused on that as well with day one. But Adam Stone here, uh, really, I thought he did a fine job. It wasn't overstated at all, but he captured the spirit of the nation at the time. I mean, we're talking a long time ago now, right? We're talking about, oh, well, what a different place the world was. 1960, 519, 73. I thought he captured that very well. Jacqui did that not.

Jaqui Hammerton: Oh, yes, yes, yes. As I said, I like the look of it and the place and the setting and the setup of it. It all came together, but I just didn't really want to be there unless, um, they'd have a shower, et cetera.

Alex First: It's so you can't, you can't see yourself with a bikie for the rest of your life. Is that what you're telling me?

Jaqui Hammerton: Anytime soon? No.

Alex First: Tradies. It's only tradies. There's a difference. And that the tradies shower.

Jaqui Hammerton: Just picking up a question.

Alex First: I'm just picking up a thread. So, uh, please, I'm not having a go at tradies. That very, very.

Jaqui Hammerton: You know what I mean when I make that comment though, Alex, don't you? I mean, it was pretty, I mean, you could call it gritty and ugly, but it was also pretty, you know, pretty disgusting and sordid too, as a lifestyle, as it was a lifestyle choice.

Alex First: Yeah, the lifestyle choice. I agree. It is a lifestyle, uh, choice. And. But I mean, I suppose it played.

Jaqui Hammerton: And also, you might say it's very masculine. It was very testosterone. Testosterone. And which, the other point was that to me, Cathy didn't look like that at all. And she actually looked out of place the whole time.

Alex First: But that was the point. That was where like, she was the most unlikely person. She was kind of more prim and proper in certain regards, but she got to appreciate elements of that lifestyle. That's why I thought hers was such a measured role, but one that transitioned and I thought that was really valuable.

Peter: I really like this film. I gave it eight out of ten

But anyway, let's start with you, Peter. You liked it very much. The bike riders rated M. M. And it runs for 116 minutes. Score out of ten, please.

Peter Krause: I really like this film. I gave it eight out of ten.

Alex First: Mhm. Okay. I really enjoyed it too. Seven and a half, Greg King. Six and a half, Jacqui Hammerton.

Jaqui Hammerton: Oh, and I gave the bike riders a six out of ten.

Alex First: So. Okay, so, yeah, um, so you'd call it where does six sit? On the platform. Is that an average movie, Jacqui, or below average?

Jaqui Hammerton: Oh, I'm not sure. No. Well, I'm not sure. It's a, it's a movie for particular, a particular audience. I think not everyone would love it. I mean it was a, it was a finely made, it was well made film, but uh, I just didn't love it.

Alex First: Fair enough.

There are certain directors that you look forward to seeing next

Uh, as a, as a filmmaker, uh, he, Peter, I think he's quite an intriguing filmmaker, uh, that, you know, the choices of movies that he makes, uh, that he has and so forth. Uh, what are your thoughts about that into it? Because I mean, obviously as a, as a director, as somebody who, who makes choices, that they're all kind of gritty in a way, aren't they?

Peter Krause: They are. I mean, Nichols is such a good independent director, and uh, his film mud, uh, for me stands out as being such a examination.

Alex First: Yeah. Terrific film.

Peter Krause: Yeah.

Alex First: It's interesting. There are certain you look forward, I don't know about you, but I certainly look forward to the next film of a certain director. Uh, for example, uh, some people may. Yorgos Lanthimos is a good example. Right. You know, you're going to get the obtuse every time you go and see Yorgos lanthimos movie. I think that's a good thing. Right? I mean, there, and he's one of those that I follow with a great deal of interest and want to know what he's doing next.

Alice: I thought it took forever to get going in this movie

Anyway, we've given our scores. One of, um, the other movies that, uh, has come out is one that it took a long time for me to start to appreciate. And I'm thinking this has got one of the longest starts in history. And I'm talking about a silence. I, it was interminable before we got to the plot, you know, before we got to the point. And I uh, I don't know why they did that, to sort of draw it out. Uh, it dropped, it drove me nuts before giving any detail about it. Did any of you find similarly, like it took half hour or 40 minutes in a movie that only went for 101 minutes to get to the only about five minutes?

Greg King: Alice, come on.

Alex First: No, no. I, I genuinely don't believe that. Was I the only one that thought it took forever to get going? Yes.

Peter Krause: Well, I, I thought, uh, because it focused, first of all on Emmanuel DeVos's character and how she felt guilt and concern. Um, and we start to pull back from that and we learn more about the background. I thought it was actually really well made.

Alex First: Well, okay. Well, no, no, I, funnily enough I also thought a lot of it after the first half hour, but anyway, it's ma rated. It's 101 minutes, and it's really about a dark and dirty family secret that explodes. Right, so you've got Astrid, played by DeVos. Emmanuel. Devos has said nothing about the deeply troubling matter that I spoke about for three decades. But a figure from the past triggers a lot of concern. Massive concern. So Astra has this renowned, media savvy lawyer for a husband. His name is Francois, played by Daniel, or till. And Jacqui. Uh, he's in every second french movie, isn't it? I think, yes, it used to be.

Greg King: But not so much now.

Alex First: No, no. Well, the conversation I had. Off the record with you. No, not off the record. Off this platform. Jacqui, was that Daniel or till is in every second french movie, along with which actor? Which. Which female actor?

Peter Krause: Isabelle Huppert.

Alex First: Yeah. Is that right, Jacqui?

Jaqui Hammerton: Yes, that's right.

Alex First: There you go. All right. She's angry with me now. Don't be. Don't be angry with me. We're just having fun. Um, okay, so, uh, you haven't seen this one yet, Jacqui, but, um, I would suggest it's a movie that you may. You may think a lot of.

Jaqui Hammerton: Alex, you did. You did mention, uh, uh, to me to see it. And I looked at the trailer and I read a review of it, and I chose not to, based on the content.

Peter Krause: Ah.

Alex First: Uh, makes a lot of sense.

Astrid's husband is a prominent lawyer fighting a high profile case

All right, well, all right, so Astrid's got this husband, who's a lawyer, has been fighting. He has been fighting an incendiary, high profile case for five years. And he represents the parents of a couple of abducted children, two of them, uh, with reporters, camped outside his place, really nice home, eager to capture his every word. The. The two of them, they're kind of cocooned in this life of privilege, and yet there's a lot of tension between the couple that dates back decades. And they've got a couple of children. They've got a grown up daughter called Caroline, played by Louise Chevrolet, who really implores her mum to say something about, uh. About what? What's this dirty, dark secret? And she wants her mother to come clean. They've also got an adopted teenage son called Raphael, played by matur galu. And he's been wagging school. He faces expulsion. So there are fires to be fought on several fronts. The personal fronts, of course, as well as the professional. And ultimately, though, there's no escaping the bitter truth. So the. It's a. It's a really disturbing drama. From Joachim La Fosse. And it's a disquieting exploration of family, of duty, of complicity and of coercive control. And they're the elements that I suppose, ah, are, ah, attractive in terms of making a movie.

Alex says the film is tortuously slow and obscure

And what makes it even more shocking though, is that it was inspired by actual events that occurred in France and Belgium and outraged both countries. Uh, I was suitably appalled by what I saw unfolding. But my biggest criticism of this movie comes down to that tortuously slow, I'd say wallowing and obscure. Start now. I do understand that what they were trying to do as filmmakers Washington to stretch out the big reveal. But I dare say by the time it comes, some of the audience may not have stuck around. And that's a pity, because the story's got real bite from that point on. I mean, mystery is one thing, but obfuscation is another. And that's what I felt was happening at first. So. And I've got to say, greg, my sentiments weren't helped by the darkness inherent in many of the scenes, but it's.

Greg King: A very dark film in many ways, some of the things, and I think that energetic, that added to the mood of it.

Alex First: I wanted to see the film, Greg. I mean, it was a theatrical device, maybe, but it became frustrating to me. It's like something if they. They turn the sound down, they turn the light down, it's too dark. Uh, but I still want to recommend asylums because as disgusting and scandalous a story as it is, it really deserves to be told. And, and what gives the movie strength is that internalised acting performance of Emmanuel Devos. Really strong as a woman who has endured so much. And again, Daniel Ortil, really well cast, suave, astute legal eagle carrying a massive burden. You believe he is who he is. And I thought Matthew Galou was quite believable as that aloof youngster with problems trying to sort of find his way through. So if you stick with this, if you stick with the silence, it's worthwhile because there is payout for doing so. Only, uh, it takes its sweet time to get there. Greg, uh, you thought more of it, or. I mean, I thought it was a very fine movie.

Greg King: It was a very tense drama there, as that opening scene there where Emmanuel Jeevis character is driving down the street, then you just get the, um, bit of ominous music in the background there as she's driving, sort of sets the scene that this is sort of going somewhere uncomfortable. Um, it's building up that sense of expectation.

Alex First: But, but great.

Greg King: And then it all starts to reveal and it all falls apart. And it's certainly not a happy family story.

Alex First: No, but, but great. Did it need to go? That opening scene drove me bananas. Like okay, look in the rear view mirror. See your eyes, do it a second time. Keep on going. Yeah.

Greg King: It's giving you, it's giving you a sense of her uh, uncomfortable feeling. Alex, she doesn't know where, what's gonna, what's waiting for her when she gets to a destination. That's why going out so that you get into that sense of, you know, you can almost feel for her what is going on here, where is she going? What is she feeling? And it's more of that internal performance, internalisation of her emotions that you get there. So look, I know it went on for about three or four minutes, five minutes, but that was setting the scene and getting you a chance to sort of wonder what's going on so that, you know, you are drawn into the film, you drawn into expectations of what's going to happen and then it all unfolds. Um, and you learn so many ugly truths about this family.

Alex First: But uh. Mister recalcitrant, I'm going to disagree with.

Greg King: You on that point, Alex.

Alex First: Mister recalcitrant, did it need to go on for three, four minutes, that opening scene?

Peter Krause: Yes, it did because it uh, very carefully set up the scene. I mean, look at the film zone of interest that takes several minutes to get into uh, the storyline. And I think that's a great device that filmmakers use to lure the audience into a narrative that at first seems perhaps benign but actually turns out to be quite different.

Peter: The devastating conclusion of the film is just incredible

Alex First: Okay, so tell me, tell me how wonderful the movie is from your perspective, Peter.

Jaqui Hammerton: Uh.

Peter Krause: A silence.

Alex First: Yes.

Peter Krause: Yes. I think it's an excellent film. Uh, and the devastating conclusion is just incredible.

Alex First: What else? Any, any other thoughts? Greg?

Greg King: No, it's just that uh. I would, I weren't sure what. I hadn't read anything about the film before I saw it. So some of the revelations certainly did come out of nowhere. A bit of a surprise there and get a bit of a gritty uncomfortable feel when you learn the um, depth of what's been going on.

Alex First: Absolutely terrible.

Peter: I'm staggered that we didn't know about Belgian case

You know, this is where I'm staggered that I didn't know about this case that occurred, I think, in Belgium. And again, I'm not sure how, how close to reality it was. Peter, did you do any reading on the actual case?

Peter Krause: I didn't, only a little bit. And as far as I'm aware it is a fairly accurate depiction. Uh, of the real life events.

Alex First: What an absolutely set of circumstances. Like, incredible, uh, at times. What's the expression? Fact is stranger than fiction and. Yeah, it. But why would we not have heard about this? I mean, I. I followed the news very carefully. Did we know, pet? Did you know when it actually occurred? What year?

Peter Krause: No. It must have been about, I, uh, would say, eight or ten years ago.

Alex First: Okay, well, there we go.

So let's get some scores for a silence. Jackie, does this make it more compelling because of the content

So let's get some scores for a silence. Jacqui, does this any of what we've said make it, um, more compelling for you to go and see it all because of the tawdry subject matter?

Jaqui Hammerton: No.

Greg King: Yes.

Jaqui Hammerton: It's the content. To be honest, uh, what I read of it was enough for me to say that I would find it too distressing.

Alex First: Yeah. Uh, it is very, very much so. All right, so I can take the.

Jaqui Hammerton: Aliens, but I don't want to do this.

Alex First: Yeah. So, uh, Peter, score for a silence. Ma rated. Runs around in one minutes.

Peter Krause: Yes. No, I was also similarly, uh, impressed by this film. And, uh, there's nothing explicit, really, that we see in the film. So that's important that it's all suggested. Um, so I also gave this film eight out of ten.

Alex First: Eight out of ten, Greg.

Greg King: Yeah. Look, I thought that given the content and what it's going to, it was fairly tastefully handled. So it's not that as confronting as it could have been. Um, probably six and a half, seven.

Alex First: Yeah. And I'm giving it a seven out of ten as well. So, yeah, sort of a. Well, a very solid film, but you've got to have a stomach for it. Now, we're very short of time at this point, but let's tease this for perhaps next week. Uh, just, just a line or two.

There are really strong documentaries about midnight all the hardest line coming out

There are really strong documentaries. There are many of them. Uh, and I. I mean, we. Are you a midnight oil fan, Greg, or not? You. You love your music.

Greg King: I've only got. I've only got the greatest hits album. I've never seen him live. Um, and that kind of thing. I haven't got any other elves hits album.

Alex First: Okay, well, look, basically, uh, beds of burning is one of my favourite songs. I think it's got such power and I really. And the passion. Well, I admire the passion of Peter Garrett for whatever he, he said. It turns his mind to. Hes somebody who gives it his all. And he certainly gave the band his all for a large number of years. And, uh, im obviously talking about a documentary about this midnight all the hardest line, uh, which came out in the last few days, m rated 110 minutes. And yeah this is a band with a social conscience and uh. It sort of galvanised those who had necks to grind. And uh. It was a pub band wasnt it? Uh. They did a really commercial radio. Didn't want to borrow them when they started absolutely nothing and they couldn't get a run and yet they did it on the road and the people who went and saw them thought a great deal of them but they took many missteps. And that's what this documentary shows I think um. It's very good for what it does. And you really do get a feel. I mean if you're a fan I reckon it's a must kind of documentary. But we'll. We'll talk about it in a bit more detail next week and uh along with other movies and uh. And also a few shows I wanted to talk about. So we'll. We'll wait till next week to talk about that one. And they go along by the way, to the comedy theatre. There's something. Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf? Is um. Um. Is really uh. Sorry not who's afraid of Virginia Woolf? I've just gone blank on um. That's coming up this week. There uh. There's a moot m. There's a play that was on a reg stitch that is now uh. That's now playing at the comedy theatre and it's well worth a look because uh. It's only on for three weeks. And it's interesting. There's the first play uh that was on a red stitch that's transposed to a bigger theatre that only happens with the very best shows. So just be aware of that. Cheque it out. Go to. Um. I'm still. It's uh. It's interesting because it stars cat Stewart and her husband. Now how often do you see husband and wife in a play? You know you want. You. You do wonder. Uh. And it is who's afraid of Virginia? Well by the way, you do wonder how they'd go home of a night having fought for 3 hours on stage. Jacqui, could you imagine that? Um. And you know who I went with? I went with somebody who's just separated from her husband and I wondered how she was going to take it. I did warn her about the. The verbal fisticuffs that were being thrown but um. You know it's inevitable that you would um. You would reflect upon something like that.

Jaqui Hammerton: When you see who's just separated from her husband. Wasn't your wife then?

Alex First: No, just a very good friend. There you go. Uh. Very good. I like it. Jacqui, thank you very much for your contribution today. I appreciate it. Uh, Peter Krause. Always a pleasure to, uh, meet Mister recalcitrant and Gregory King. Uh, take the white stripe off your back and barrack for the bombers, will you? No, thank you, folks. Well, we're off first on film and entertainment. Been a pleasure being with you. We will speak to you again next week.