Cured From CFS with Santa

Welcome back to the doctor body mind soul podcast. My name is Dr. Jude. And this is a podcast which explores how we can integrate modern medicine and alternative therapies to help you get the holistic health care that you deserve. I will be speaking to healers and seekers, researchers and authors who will share their experiences and the evidence to help guide us all to Holistic Health. Let's do this. Okay, so this week, I am introducing Santa to the podcast. Now Santa is part of our Secret Story series. And this is a series which is designed to explore the experiences of seekers, people who have been looking for alternative therapies to try because they have bumped up against the limits of the modern medical system. Now, Santa was diagnosed with CFS, approximately five years ago, and has had a very interesting journey through her recovery story and now considers herself fully healed. Everyone's story to recovery is going to be different. But Santa is going to share her story in the hope that it provides people with hope and perhaps guidance as to what they could try. And in a similar situation. So welcome center.

Thank you so much for having me, I'm excited to share my story. And I just hope that it helps a lot of people. Wonderful. So let's,

let's start with your story center. You are busy mother of three young children. And you were telling me just before we hit record, that you had just moved up to Birmingham, you're about to start a new life. And all of a sudden, you're struck down with chronic fatigue. Tell me the nuance of that story. And what you've learned since throughout, throughout your experience.

Yeah. So firstly, I would say that, definitely, most people that I speak to can recognize that there are always signs before this, you know, condition hits you. And I definitely saw lots of them and different symptoms creeping in, slowly, slowly, but I simply ignored them. I didn't know what that were. And I just simply pushed through. And of course, it didn't change my life in any way. Even though my body was clearly telling me that, you know, you have to change something, we can't go on any longer like this. You are pushing to a limit, but I was just ignoring it. And so the answer is yes.

Before we actually go into the end result, actually, to anyone listening, what signs now with hindsight, can you look back and say, Oh, my gosh, if only I had listened, what kind of how was your body expressing that you were reaching its limit?

Ever since I was a child, I had certain like, tiredness, but you know, at certain points in my life, which, you know, I wouldn't say it was CFS, definitely. But I could see sometimes looking back at it, that it was during stressful periods of, you know, my life, that those things came up, or I had, you know, different unexplainable symptoms, or whatever, or different pains and, you know, nobody could tell me what it was, especially as I became a teenager, and then a young adult. So sort of things like, you know, pain in my back, or maybe my neck. And, you know, when I had my children, and even before that, I started to have problems with sleep. Because there was a lot of pressure and different stresses in my life. And again, I just thought that this is a normal thing. You know, people sometimes can't sleep. They sometimes have insomnia, but then again, it was turning into a big chronic thing, where I wasn't able to switch off at all. I was sleeping a few hours every night for weeks, which turned into months, which turned into years. And that that was a big, huge thing. And again, a sign off, you know, that my body wasn't working optimally. my nervous system was in a very fighter flight. Looking back at it now and knowing what I know, state that it couldn't even relax. Yeah, and so,

so hearing that really anxiety like sort of insomnia Ah, yeah, and I'm hearing that, you know, these were early signs that your body was carrying a lot. I'm also hearing that sort of aches and pains in your, in your high in your childhood, but non expendable aches and pains in your childhood, may have been early signs. And what what sounds really interesting to me as well is this sort of experience of living in the land of shoulds. You know, it sounds like you were living a life dictated by what you should be doing, rather than what you love to be doing. So your boundaries that you're living in, out of alignment with your, with yourself. boundaries were being crossed. And normally, when boundaries are being crossed, it invokes a feeling or the emotion that seems to come up is is anger. And does that does that ring true? Do you feel anger was something that looking back at it now was surfacing? And we can take as a sign?

Yes, definitely. But when you are in that place where you don't even know exactly what boundaries are, especially healthy ones, you come to a place where your body simply starts to shut down. And you don't experience any anger, really, because it's all suppressed, and all you feel is numbness. And you don't understand why you feel this, and you're just so used to, most likely, in opposite of from your childhood to feel this way, that you don't see anything wrong with it, you don't want to change anything, and you just feel, you know, like, you have to go with the flow. And yeah, and since I learned what boundaries are and what healthy boundaries are, since I have practiced them, and now I finally am in a place in my life where, you know, I have them finally, and they're healthy. I can and I do have the healthy anger about this certain events or things that happened. And I have dealt with them I have processed them. And you know, they don't rule over my life anymore. And I have the freedom now to, you know, my body feels safe enough to be able to have that anger to live through to process it. And yeah, definitely. But at first, yeah, it was just all repressed and you don't just feel numb, you don't feel anything.

So there's numbness actually, more, it was more of a sensation of numbness. Which I guess they can be quite a vague symptom of like, you know, again, it's a hard symptom to pin down, isn't it because there's something that well, you don't feel anything. And therefore, it's very subtle and kind of hard to pin down emotional state. And it's hard to know that there's anything wrong because you simply don't feel it. So I guess a total disconnection from self. And I guess one that has, as you say, being conditioned for survival from a very young age. And so what I'm really hearing from you is actually like this feeling early signs of your body letting you know that something was wrong was perhaps a feeling of numbness or feeling of anxiety or increasing anxiety, which turned into insomnia. And I guess, you all just, you as many others, I think would be would think that this was all just normal a normal life experience until what happened then to really sort of wake you up from that way of being and realizing that this was actually something more.

Yeah, that happened around, you know, almost five years ago, where we were moving from, I think, one house to another, and then I just felt a tiredness and true fatigue, like I've never felt before. Unlike anything and people who have been through this, they can truly understand where, you know, I was meaning to pack up the kitchen and you know, because we'll move in, but I just felt like, you know, I can't do it. I have to sit on the sofa and I just I literally can't move and my body's telling me that you know, even though I have kind of slept at all half of the night but yeah, I just can't go on anymore. But there was still some strength Have a bit of strength left in me. So obviously, I didn't think anything of it, and I just pushed myself I packed everything up. And then we moved, you know, towards Birmingham, which was a few hours away. And pretty much as soon as we came there, one or two days afterwards, that over overbearing fatigue became just unmanageable. And it led me directly into bed, from which I could not stand, I couldn't sit and I was just bedridden from that point, for most of the part of the five years. Well, yeah. And yeah, that was a very horrible, awful experience. So that's why I'm just, you know, grateful that, you know, it makes me now appreciate the very small things in life. Were just sitting talking to you now. You know, I couldn't, there were many months where I couldn't even say a word at all. Because my body was just shutting down in every possible way. And it was too hard for me to even speak. So yeah, it was just a very traumatic experience. But a blessing in disguise, of course, because it has taught me a lot of things. It has changed me changed my character change the way I lead my life now. And it made me very thankful for Yeah, and just simple life.

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. I think anyone who's gone through such a radical health scare no longer takes their health for granted. That's such a gift from from illness. I'm curious, a lot of people who suffer with chronic fatigue they, there's a viral prodrome, and it may be triggered by a virus. Did you have did you experience that?

Yes. So yeah, as far as I remember, it was just a normal cold. And that was the sort of trigger point which led me to then be in my bed for five years. But I think as most people in the community who are within you know, this mind body community, hopefully already know that that is only a trigger. And that is not the cause of these conditions. And, of course, it can be sad as well, where, you know, I, for years, have chased different treatments and everything, just trying to sort of like, tackle that virus thinking that that's what led me to be in bed because I didn't know any better. I just thought, Well, I never recovered from that. So that must be the cause. But of course, it wasn't. And, you know, at some point, I even I got so desperate that I, I started to take antivirals, and quite a lot of them, you know, because there's this protocol where you take high doses of that. And apparently, you know, maybe it helped a few people, but it will probably be just a placebo effect, really. And yeah, and it was very hard on my kidneys on everything. Because, you know, it's just the high dosages of antivirals. But, yeah, I just tried to do all kinds of therapies possible, conventional alternative, and I'm not the type of person who even takes no painkillers. So it was very hard, very hard decision for me, but I was just in bed completely not able to do anything for years. So I was like, Okay, let me try this, hoping that it works, which didn't, of course,

well, I think this really speaks to the problem with our current healthcare system is that when the medical model reaches its limits, and there are very low limits, with those who present with chronic fatigue, really, patients are left feeling desperate, and they're left down doctor, Dr. Google rabbit hole, and they don't know where to turn. And because doctors don't know anything about alternative therapies. They're not able to offer any guidance there. And so it leads people like yourself round, and very vulnerable to all sorts of hocus pocus ideas, like taking high dose antivirals, which have yet multiple side effects so that you really speak to speak to I think one of the biggest problems that I hope that Dr. bodymind still can contribute to possibly positively in helping to guide people around the world of alternative therapies in a more systematic evidence based way. No. This leads me on to really explore what did you what you talked about antivirals. What other therapies did you take? And or did you try in this in this desperation that really didn't help.

So, I have a list here, but, you know, I think it might be helpful for anyone listening who might be exploring all these options just to hear what I have gone through. So, you know, I have seen an endocrinologist to check your former hormones, okay. That didn't help, that didn't lead me to anything. I have seen a neurologist, because obviously such a nervous system neuros symptoms, you have to see one, and you're very scared. You know, it feels like your brain is absolutely not working, there must be something really seriously wrong with you. I have had an MRI of my brain. Again, didn't show anything, I have had an x ray, I went to a neurophysiologist, who did muscle testing. Because my muscle weren't working, I thought, you know, let's test them for all kinds of things. Again, that didn't bring me anything. I went to functional medicine doctor, did all the tests started on, you know, protocol of lots of supplements, nothing went to a cardiologist. Because, you know, again, with pot symptoms, that is the link to your cardio system. And that was the end as well, when I was getting very desperate. I have seen a psychologist because that's the first thing probably that all GPS and everyone would suggest that you know, it's basically all on your head. Nothing helps. I went on a low dose naltrexone, which is something that you know that I have found on forums against CFS forums, and people were saying that it really helped them. And of course, I couldn't get that through a normal doctor had to go to a private doctor who prescribed it to me off label. And that's to be fair, the only thing that it did help after, it kind of sort of gives you even more insomnia at the start, but then slowly, it's it helps you sleep a bit better.

It just sounds like wow, you went through. So many medical specialists, each have their own protocol with how to exclude organic causes for fatigue and weakness. And this is the medical approach. It's not a holistic approach. It's a very specialist approach. And with that, I think we forget the person having to interface against, you know, against all of these different specialists who are excluding important medical conditions. That so that we're not missing those. But once you've gone through all of those specialists, and nothing organic within that specialty is identified. I think it's very common and very understandable that people feel hopeless. And I think we have to understand as medical professionals that the system with which we are referring people within and managing them within is causing its own impact. Leaving people like yourself feeling really hopeless. And I'm guessing very unseen, and I'm guessing very confused. So what what yeah, what did you What do you and what did you feel within being a patient within this within the system?

So firstly, when I just got sick, and I didn't know even about CFS, it was really scary because, you know, in one day you go from being okay to being bedridden for an unknown cause. And so I was you know, I was trying to attend all the I went to any a few times. You know, many times I was asking them, you know, pleading with them, you know, to test me for everything and to take me seriously and they just kept saying that you know, there is nothing wrong with you. All the tests are fine. Everything is okay. But I felt like I had something absolutely horrible happening with me. Because the symptoms were terrifying nobody could explain them and yet I just felt really scared and I felt let you know doctors were probably trying to gaslight me because I was like you know there obviously, is something wrong seriously wrong with me but you're not taking it seriously. And there was actually a point where one doctor wrote to sort of like a note to say that, you know, what you what you probably have is post viral fatigue, you know, because you've just had this virus and that's what you have. And I was like, Okay, so, I mean, the point is, he never really explained what exactly he meant, what it entails. And I just thought, Okay, well, I had the virus, I have the fatigue. So but it's impossible for it to last this long is it? It's week upon week upon week? So can you explain what is going on? And just Yeah, I was sort of like dismissed. And that said, you know, there's nothing we can do just, you know, it will go away soon. And it makes me feel guilty. And like, I'm doing something wrong, because I am clearly trying to do everything I can, but I'm just none the wiser. Yeah, so I just wish that doctors weren't, you know, trained about these conditions are not just to know that they exist. And it's not that you are making things up, or that you can just simply stand up and walk and help yourself in a simple way. But the fact is that most chronic conditions shouldn't be something that we just tried to chuck pills, that, that it is something that, again, most chronic conditions, they do have a cure, thankfully, not all of them, of course, but most of them do. And most of them are originated within this condition, sort of connection between the mind and body, they are rooted in trauma and all the other things, and that there is hope there is treatment for that. And it's definitely not trying to separate the two mind in the body and just, you know, try to treat the symptoms without addressing the cause. And if they were trained on this, that would, you know, really help millions of people.

I couldn't agree more. And my question to you was, was just before that was just like, What do you wish doctors really? And what do you wished doctors knew about this? And I think one of the key things it sounds like is just that you wish doctors really understood beyond the diagnosis. So you really understand you want you really want wish doctors understood Yes, okay. There's there's a diagnosis. And it's it's chronic fatigue syndrome. But then also, there are healers in the community that can help with this. So it's true, there are no pills, no medical management, that is going to help chronic fatigue. Much I think there are there is a place for excluding other medical conditions, that's important. It's also important that hormones, blood, hemoglobin levels, vitamin D levels, are all checked and optimized. Once that has been done. It is important that doctors understand that there are healers within the community that specialize in managing chronic fatigue syndrome and other Mind Body diseases that we could and I would argue should be referring patients to so when the Western system reaches its limits, like it does with these conditions, and we send patients endlessly to specialists, we need to be aware that there are people who specialize in in managing and treating successfully, conditions like this and my hope with my module install and the witch women moving forward to the bridges that gap because we do need to bridge that gap for people just like you and as you say there's so many people like you that feel dismissed that feel guilty, that feel confused, that feel hopeless, within our medical system that really are just not being referred to the right healers. And the consequence of that is then, you know, trying all sorts of potentially dangerous alternative therapies, which again, is is is not helpful. So you thankfully did get pointed to an alternative therapy or therapies that really did move the needle for you. So can you explain what really did help in your case?

Yeah, and just before I See what helped, I will just briefly mention just a few alternative therapies that I have tried that didn't help much, which is something like oxygen chamber, kinetic oxygen machine where I was breathing, some sort of activated oxygen, osteoporosis, osteopathy, you know, in sort of like, majorly, it didn't help, but a part of it, where it you know, it's someone doing literally some some type of somatic work with you, it did benefit. But that again, is because we are trying to then bridge that connection between the mind and the body. That's why it's, you know, it did have some benefit, red light therapy, cold therapy and lots of supplements. And again, I would say that it's not that these therapies are useless is that they can't cannot heal you. So now that I am healed, I do use them. Things like coal therapy, red light therapy, all these things are amazing. And they are very helpful to help you to have optimal health holistically, but they're not going to cure a chronic condition. So yeah, I wouldn't just dismiss that. But the things that did help me were, firstly, it's something that you mentioned, as well. And I think sometimes in the mind, body community, it can be sometimes ignored or downplayed, when, you know, people focus too much on this mind body connection, where they forget about things like well, but your hormones might be out of whack. And yeah, of course, the nervous system can well and does play a big part in them becoming out of whack, but they can be another issue that are going on as well. And certainly deficiencies can happen, and they do happen. And they can have a very huge impact on anyone's, you know, on how anyone feels, especially if they're severe. So yeah, I would just encourage people to look into the physical part of it, meaning, specifically deficiency, because they can, they can be a huge thing that is just contributing a big part to the symptoms that you're feeling. So yeah, it is about mind and body. But don't forget about the body part, you know, because our body needs physical things, you know, and specific things to work. And then I would say, looking into properly, changing my sleep hygiene and getting serious about that was a very big thing. And again, many people sort of like dismiss that. And they understand that sleep is important, but they don't understand that it is probably well, it is top three things that are going to affect your health, just in all kinds of ways. And so getting serious about that and changing the things I did around, you know how I slept, because when I was, you know, at my severe state, I didn't sleep all night long. I woke up sort of like in the afternoon, in afternoon, sorry, no, at night, I woke up at night in the middle of the night, then I will stay up half of the night. And then I will go back to sleep for the rest of the day because my circadian rhythm was so out of whack. And so once I started taking sleep hygiene seriously, it slowly slowly helped me with my sleep. So yeah, that's definitely one thing I would look into for anyone who's listening. And I have also started regularly receiving massages. And at first when I was again, quite unwell, they did the opposite, they didn't help me because, you know, having a massage, you know, it moves all your toxins around and everything, but my immune system and all nervous system, they were just so sensitive and not ready to to have any stress or put on me on my body that they didn't help. But then later on as I started to see improvement in my health, I just carried on with having that massage therapy and I believe that it is, you know, it can be a type of somatic work as well because it does help you to release different emotions to release the stress out of your body. So having that regularly really helped me and that was a part of my routine for probably a year or more than that. And yeah, and just, you know, again, looking into things like boundaries is huge. And you know, it's not really an alternative therapy as such, but you know, it is part of that therapeutic approach in life which can can and does help you and your body feel safe and release the emotions and distress that are then so associated with such conditions and that become like a snowball, and you know, then you start having all these unexplainable symptoms like pain and fatigue, and yeah, so. And finally, it was my faith in God, which kept me going. Because that's another thing that I believe that a lot of Mind Body community forget, or while they generally don't look into that is that there is a third realm that we're not looking into that we're not just a body like convention, doctors say we're not just mind and body like mind body practitioner, say, but we also have a soul or a spirit. And that is very important to look into that I would say, as well.

Hmm. Yeah, I agree that there is often Well, in this in this. In this HB, we've completely disconnected from connection to soul and spirit and whatever that means to us. Whether that be higher self or higher power. Yeah, we've really disconnected from that. And I think it is really fundamental, actually, that we reconnect with, in my case, I sort of my own spirit, my own soul, and actually, that will, that is now guiding all of my decisions in life, because I think that's one of the most fundamental, fundamental pieces to any to good health is our is connection to ourselves and our souls and our spirit. And then from that, and that has a ripple effect into our energy into our mind, and then into our bodies. I think that's so important to highlight. And so what I'm really hearing from you is what helped is, is, I guess, good sleep hygiene, correcting nutrient deficiencies, massage therapy, and really addressing all of this while in the context of addressing the root cause. And the root cause, being, I guess, how your relationship to self so you know, boundaries is all about, you know, what we allow, and what we what we don't, and almost. And this is very related to our nervous system, and in Chinese medicine is very related to our immune systems. It's our sense of self, I mean, our immune system is there to detect and distinguish what is self and what is other. And when we have a dysregulated nervous system, it directly impacts our immune system. And obviously, this condition like CFS is off. That's why it's often triggered by a virus, but it's really offsetting a cascade of dysregulation within our immune systems, and our nervous systems, which all of which, you know, when we take a mind body spirit approach to we can see the relationship between boundaries and what we allow in and to ourselves, impact our, our bodies, if we continually don't pay attention to it. So you know, yeah, it's a really holistic approach that you're taking. And in some ways, it's like, so common sense, in a way, it seems it sounds so simple. And yet, when you don't know that we can contextualize a treatment plan based on that. And doctors are completely unaware of this system of operating with this condition exists. It does lead to a lot of desperation and a lot of hopelessness. But, you know, there are practitioners out there who are doing things differently. And it's my mission to sort of know who they are, and be able to signpost, people to them. So that's, that's, that's hopefully what this podcast will do to.

Yes, sorry. And just to mention, because I forgot who talked about many things, but these are the fundamentals that I mentioned that I feel and I think everybody regardless of what condition you have, should have in their life. But then to add on to that I looked into and I did trauma work, which is, you know, again, that's another essential because the, one of the root causes of chronic conditions is trauma. So definitely Uh, you know, most people would need to look into that. And then finally, one of the biggest pieces for me, and I see for people that I work with, are the patients, my friends, you know, who might have these conditions? Or had them in the past? Help them? Is brain no training? And yeah, because so once you it's sort of like addressing all that in a combination, isn't it where you do things that are helpful for your body? Functionally, you do somatic work, and then you connect that with your brain and with your mind, because you need to address the both doing trauma work, brain training and inner child work as well. Very helpful. So these were probably the sort of like last pieces to this jigsaw, which then okay, they made sense. But I would say that if I started to do them straight away without addressing the firstly, the fundamentals, they probably wouldn't be that helpful. And I did try doing brain training a few times within those few years. But one, I wasn't even ready to understand and accept the fact that brain retraining works and what exactly it meant. Because the first time I heard about it, which was years ago, I think I read about something like all rewiring your, your neural pathways, and it just sounded really like something woowoo to me. And I just dismissed that. And then it took me years to come to that realization, and through all the research and experience and stories that I've read and heard to finally take it seriously to understand how it works. And this is why, yeah, it's one of the biggest things that I do when I help people, we definitely include that because without that part, it is pretty much impossible to Yeah, to to let go of having those chronic symptoms. So you can help have improvement, but it is very hard to Finally Heal and be free from chronic symptoms.

Brain retraining, and this is sort of I guess, like, this is the importance of of, of rewriting your narrative, you know, it's actually really it's reframing your experience. And this completely transforms how you relate to yourself and how you relate to the world. And this is why people in a very similar circumstance can have completely different results. It's all around, and the narrative that we create, often very subconsciously. It completely defines our experience of life and our experience within our own bodies. So yeah, narrative. And that's not to underplay, the importance of it is to sort of say, this is sort of such a key aspect to our life experience and our ability to move from one identity through which we really need and have needed into another identity. And often, these big life experiences like chronic fatigue, or, but there's many different transitions in life, menopause being another one do require you to transition from one identity to another. And it can be so difficult to do that. Because we are so attached to our own identities. It's something that we really need to go quickly. keep us safe, until it doesn't. And is often these illnesses that provide such a wake up call to many people in order to have the opportunity to release what is no longer serving us and big illnesses often do. Do challenge our sense of self, who we are, what our priorities are all of these things. So you know, our health, there's nothing there's nothing like our health to shift to shift our identities and, but to make lasting changes, like we get the opportunity to actually re write that rewrite who we are, who we want to come at who we want to become what meaning we're creating out of this whole experience. So this is a really important piece for transitioning from a person who we have been in to a person who we wish to become and our body often. If we're lucky, in some ways, it gives us the opportunity to do due sooner or later it will happen to all of us. So thank you so much for sharing your story, Santana, I know that you now work with others in order to share your experience your approach and modality which has come to you as very hard fought. Can you explain to our listeners, how you work, who you work, who you work for, and how they can contact you.

So, I mean, the best way to probably contact me is to go on my Instagram. And she can DM me. And, yeah, that's probably the best way.

And your handle is at Santa dot. Yes, and I will put that in the show notes for anyone who wants to refer to that.

Yeah, so even, you know, the sort of like, last year that I was really unwell, I had this, you know, dream and hope that, you know, maybe one day I could be healthy. And if I can be all of this works, and if I really know what to do, I would then be able to pass on this knowledge on to others and to be able to help them. And yeah, that was a sort of dream that I had. And, you know, thankfully, it came to fruition. And most of the work I do is one on one, where I create, I create a bespoke program for each client. Because what I have found through years of research, from my own experience, through all the different courses and trainings and everything that I did, and took to heal my, you know, to help myself heal, I realized that and speaking to others who some of them are still on their journey, the one of the main things that people struggle with is not knowing what exact tools are needed for them in their situation, in what exact sequence and in what times, because, you know, there are, there are many, let's say courses or something where it would be great if there would also be that one on one support added on to it, because if a person, for example, is coming into, you know, is on their healing journey, and they have not yet locked into their traumas, and on the trauma work, it will be pretty much fruitless for them to straightaway start with brain training. Because then our system will not be ready for that, they will always have that weight of those unresolved traumas on them, in them within them, you know, and so trying to change their neural pathways in your brain before addressing that is very hard to impossible. And I also recognize that people are in very different and unique conditions and circumstances. So somebody who's severe, will need a very different approach and different set of tools than somebody who's moderate or mild. And someone who, as I have experienced myself, for example, who has children, or you know, is probably mild and is working in a very demanding job will need a very different approach to someone who, you know, at University studying, or, you know, they're taking time off work, and they have more freedom or time to be able to put into the healing. And so yeah, I found that it is very hard for people to find the right tools for their specific circumstances. And this is why I speak to people one on one, and then I adapt in, you know, my program and tailor it to that specific individual. So for now, this is how it's working. And I've also got a waiting list for group coaching. Because some people who come to me they do want to experience you know, this training and trying to heal in a group session because they feel safer. But some people probably most prefer the safety of one on one. And because it's that intense sort of personalized service, I find this is what helps people more and that's why most people opt for it. But there is a waiting list for group coaching. Because I see that some people would benefit from that. So yeah, this is what I do. And you can find me on Instagram.

And I just think it's really worth noting that you know, you had a dream. You know, you had a dream that you would be helping others when you got well. And our dreams are our biggest Guiding Light. It's our spirit like this is our spirit guiding us to where we are should be, and so just want to acknowledge your spirit and the faith that you hold that propelled you forward. And I think that we need to all listen to our dreams more, and make choices and live in alignment with them. Because this is really where the magic of, of our healing I think lives. So, yeah, I want to congratulate you for the commitment you've made to yourself to really radically change your life. And, and your and your desire and dream to serve others with with the goal that you have gathered from what was a really difficult Dark Night of the Soul experience that this illness afforded you. So yeah, want to thank you for that. And thank you for coming on the podcast to share your story with us.

Thank you, thank you, again, so much for having me, I really appreciate your Instagram account. And I think it's very unique, one of a kind. And that's why, you know, I wanted to speak to you. Because, yeah, as a doctor, you are doing something very unusual, very helpful to the community of people like myself, who, you know, have been chronically ill, you are shining the light on different ways of healing. And you are, in a way going against, you know, the traditional system, which, which is a very brave and very good thing to do. So, yeah, I just want to thank you for that. And thank you for helping people like myself. Yeah, we appreciate your content and your Instagram. Thank you