#68 Finding Peace in the Midst of Preparedness, with former Green Beret Luke Dill

Gentlemen, welcome to the B Man podcasts.

I'm your host Greg Denning and today I'm a good friend Luke Deal, super excited to have a conversation with him.

He is a former Green Beret and now has an awesome organization company that he is founded.

He's an instructor there and it's Sojourner Fieldcraft.

And so I've, I've been able to do several trainings with Luke, including humanitarian trip we did in Central America.

Super awesome.

We've had some rat experiences together even and my kids were able to to go along some of those trainings.

And just as a little side note, I'm still looking forward to Luke, you and me and my teens wandering through some foreign land, hopefully Scandinavia together, just in the wilderness, like doing some rad and tearing.

But anyways, for the show, brother, so glad to have you here.

Why don't you give a tell us a story and kind of give us a background for the everyone listening.

Yeah, so I 21 years in the military, first half was infantry.

In the second-half, I was Special Forces out of Fifth Special Forces Group.

And it was it was a wild ride.

I could tell you that for the first.

So from 2001, this the summer of 2001 is when I, when I began my my journey in the military until 2016, I basically sort of lived for myself.

My life consisted of, you know, the military, whether it was deploying to combat or training, just living the lifestyle.

But it was very much so for myself.

And then in 2016, I was on a trip in the Middle East, and that was a trip where God basically told me, you've run long enough and it's time to come home.

And went from that military sort of partying lifestyle and everything changed.

Everything changed, man.

I spent that entire deployment reading through the Bible.

I read the New Testament, you know, praying and repenting each night and then every week was this is my favorite part of it was I would throw my pack on and I would hike up into the into the there were mountains, but I would hike up into the hills of where I was and just be, you know, I go out there and pray and basically like finding a new like I was really like literally just Deacon, like I was piercing together the new me.

I was like, what am I?

You know, how am I going to go forward?

And finding, I don't know what the word if finding my center, I don't know what the right word is for it, but finding peace and doing that while pursuing God.

And it was it was absolutely fantastic.

It was transformative.

What happened was I was on that deployment alone.

So my my special forces team, my ODA was back in the States.

Well, I left.

Hold up, hold up.

Like alone.

Alone.

It was just you running an operation.

No, I was with other people, but from my team I was the only person that was sent.

I'm being vague on purpose and I apologize.

Right, right.

No, no.

I.

Understand.

And yeah, so I left, you know, Luke, just just a normal team guy that partied just like the rest of them.

And when I came back, I was like, I can't do those things anymore.

I have to be true to myself and true to to all these changes that happened.

And so we're sitting in the team room one day once I'm back and, you know, the guys asked me, they said, hey, you want to go?

You know, I was, you know, going out to the local restaurant or we're going to have some, you know, drinks and etcetera.

And and I was like, I knew this was going to happen.

And I had been praying.

I was like, how do I tell the team?

I was like, because I have to, I can either do one of two things.

I could pretend none of the changes happened and go back to the old Luke or I can be a man and stand up for what happened and who cares what they think type of thing.

And I sat there and I was like, how do I tell these guys?

Because, you know, it was, it was a little intimidating.

And then one of them says, Hey, let's go.

We're going to go do this thing.

It's something we, we used to always do.

And I was like, I can't really do that anymore.

So I'll, I'll, I'm going to pass.

I'm not going to go.

And it was in this moment where I realized it was almost like God was handing me a freebie.

I was like, this is, this is your moment.

This is it's not going to get easier than this.

Because one of them looks at me and he's like, hey, did He's like, what?

Did you ever come to Jesus moment or something?

Yes, I did.

And that's from the whole thing.

I was like, this is a home run.

This is the easiest thing ever.

And I was like, as a matter of fact, I did.

And, and this dead silence in the room and some of the folks weren't very happy about it, but it's OK.

And so it was time for me to stand, stay true to who I was and who I was learning to be through Christ and, you know, decide that no matter what, I'm going to go forward with them.

I'm not going back up.

Awesome.

And was it, was it, was it challenging to maintain that or, or had you just like, hey, I'm done, I'm done and and it was easier moving forward A. 100% challenging to maintain it.

It's, it's been a learning process ever since.

You know, that was in 2016.

I've messed up since then.

You know, I've learned since then.

I've grown since then.

I just like it changed.

I had to change my physical habits.

I had to change how I spoke.

I, you know, I, the, the cursing was out.

It was no longer an option.

The type of thoughts that I had, I couldn't I, you know, I couldn't look at women as if they're objects.

I, I couldn't, I, I just couldn't do those things anymore.

I couldn't go out and and drink and party every weekend.

That was it.

It was gone.

It was a thing of the past.

And so, yeah, it was challenging because it's just like you're you as creatures of habit, that's your, you get your go to your neural pathways.

You're there.

You're like, that's what you A + B = C It's what you do.

But then it's like, well, wait a second, it doesn't equal that anymore and it's time to reprogram.

And that takes discipline.

And I've failed more time than I want to admit since man.

Let's, but let's talk about, let's talk about specifically about the mind game.

Because you and I and other people listening, we all know it's like it all starts in the head.

And if we can direct our thoughts and and at least, you know, you don't be perfect at it, but at least get markedly better at it, then it makes it makes the actions, decisions, the habits, the patterns, the lifestyle much easier.

What did you or have you found?

I know you have.

What have you found that's helpful in redirecting the thoughts in in changing the old way of thinking is specifically you mentioned purple, which is purple for most men.

It's like the way we look at women.

Yeah.

The way you notice women and the the way the mind will will go certain ways.

Well, with all kinds of things, but when you when you come back, you're, you're a changed man.

You had this amazing experience.

You're like, I'm going to be different.

How did you start directing that in your head?

Let me start with with a little bit of what drove me before and it it, it.

She died of leukemia when I was seven.

That hurt.

I had taken care of her.

I was like, my dad was working, he was in the Army and then my older brothers were already in school and so stayed out of school.

The way I understand it, I was little.

I stayed out of school to basically be her little assistant around the house when she was really sick and when she died.

It doesn't matter.

This is true, false.

Whatever it is, it's what happened in my little head.

It was partially my fault because I was like, well, wait a second.

I just helped take care of her all this time and she still she still died.

And and you know, it's been a long time.

And so how I remember it, you know, how close is that to reality?

I'm not sure.

But I know that my mom died and I know that I was, you know, a little boy that lost his mom.

And so that was the first major hit to my just view on life.

And, and it is still with me today.

And then my dad was killed in 99.

We got hit by a semi and it threw the through the van.

We flipped three or four times in the air and continued to flip and flip, roll over on the in the median.

Sorry, it's kind of challenging to talk about.

So we rolled over in the median and then by the time the van stopped, it was upside down on its roof.

I wasn't wearing a seat belt and so I just bounced around felt like I was in probably something like, you know, a dryer and where it was just.

But all I could see was like air, ground, air, ground, air, ground through the windows as and just I was pinging around like a like a ping pong ball when the van stopped.

I was mostly fine.

I had a scratch on my back and then my ankle hurt.

And this is a major accident.

And I crawled out and I was, I was doing going basically from family member to family member to see if they needed help.

And I didn't, I didn't know what that was.

I just knew that something bad happened and I needed to check on everyone.

And I get around the van, you know, some family members are knocked out, some are just kind of sitting there in pain, laying on the ground.

My little brother, we helped him out and I went over to my dad and I, I went up next to him and he would have been thrown from the van.

He was killed instantly on impact.

And what happened was, is his head got crushed in half.

But let me tell you, when I, when I went up to him, he was laying on his side.

I looked at my dad and what I saw was him sleeping.

No blood, no deformities, absolutely nothing.

It just looked like he was sleeping.

But I knew he was dead.

So what that was, I believe it was God.

Maybe, you know, some people might think, hey, he's just in a traumatic situation.

His brain's protecting him.

Whatever you want to think.

I believe God protected me that day from that sight.

And it was challenging because my dad at that point had remarried.

And so I went back over and my stepmom was laying on the side of the road and she was asking how Dad was.

And that was where I had a moment because I wasn't sure she was going to live if I told her.

And so I kind of, I kind of work, I sidestepped around it.

And so I didn't let her know in that moment that he had already passed away.

It was really challenging.

So from that, I didn't care anymore.

It was, it was, it was in 99.

I was probably 15 or 16, whatever I was.

And I stopped caring.

I was like, whatever, you know, didn't go to church anymore and I was pretty mad at God.

And so that's why I say from so from I have realized that I needed to leave the area because I was making choices that were progressively worse, that were toxic to my own life and to those around me.

And my stepmom helped me realize that I needed to go in a, in a, in a loving way.

She she was doing it to save me basically.

And so I was like, dad was in the Army, I can do that.

So we worked through that process and then I went and joined and started basic training a month after I turned 17 in June is when I went in in 2001.

And so I was in for 11 months before I turned 18.

And so basically the Army finished raising me, which, good or bad, that's what happened.

Not the best parent.

Yeah, so I was, and I, you know, I used to have a babyface and it was, I basically look like a little kid in basic training at that point.

And but what happened, the reason why I needed to say all that to say fueled my day with hatred.

It's how I refilled the engine.

It's how I got through the day.

My one of my, and I hate to say this if I'm going to say it, one of my favorite songs was from Slayer and it was called God Hates Us All.

And that's how delusional I was at that time.

I was mad at God, unrightfully so.

Well, and understandably, understandably so.

And it's, I love to hear you articulate this because that's what was driving you.

Yes.

Without something else to grab onto, like why do you get up and do what you do?

It's like it was anger and and hatred.

Yeah, but it was also, it was also pride and selfishness because I, you know, I get, I, you know, just like maybe it's similar to how kids will go off to college and act a fool.

And so here I am.

You know, I'm not in the home anymore.

My parents are gone, So what do I care?

And so I'm just, you know, you know, you know, doing things I shouldn't necessarily do.

I mean, I was a fine soldier or whatever, but like I also wasn't the most responsible guy in the world as well, like off, off duty.

And so I, I would say it was selfishness as well because I was like, I'm living for myself, you know, I don't care anymore.

And so I did that for a long time.

I made a lot of mistakes in the entire time.

So like for me, war was easy because it was, it's simple.

It's you versus me or US versus you all and every like you know what's what's what we're there for in like life back here was challenging because my personality was wrecked.

And so I didn't know how to interact with people because of my distorted view of reality, because all everything that had happened.

So war was simple.

It was terrible and it was it was destroying my mind and in new exciting ways.

But it.

But it made sense.

It made sense, yeah.

Wow.

So I stuck with it for a long time until God did what he did in in Saudi Arabia.

Amazing.

And then so OK, let's let's go.

Thank you for telling that story.

That's I've I've heard that story before and it's it always impacts me, man.

I actually, I'm sorry to interrupt, I actually forgot what the.

So that was all to build up to what your question was and I never answered.

Go back.

Yeah.

Go back.

Go back.

What was your question again?

Well, it was just like how 'cause you, it's like, how do you, how did you start redirecting your thoughts when they were, they were trained and your neural connections were one way, and then you started shifting, right.

And obviously you had a major shift in your whole paradigm for life, too.

Yeah, in that thing.

So it used to be hatred.

That's I loved it.

That's that's what fueled me.

And but then it could no longer be that.

And so without Christ, it was hopeless.

I was never going to change.

And so I began with prayer and I began with meditating on the word and focusing on God, all the while messing up and tripping along, tripping my way forward.

But it did.

It was, it was conscious efforts internally to say, you know, it's like when you wake up in the morning and some people like to have a cup of coffee or like it's just like you learn that.

It's like, oh, I'm driving to work, I need a coffee and whatever, whatever other habitual thing you have.

So it was time to say when those triggers, whatever those triggers were kicked off the next like automatic response, whether it was swearing, whether it was staring at some woman or or whatever, whatever you want to fill in the blank with it.

I could no longer do that thing anymore.

And so it required me to reflect in the moment, what am I like, how do I need to act now?

And just the gradually through this process, and I'm still probably will never end.

It's just like, is my decision going to honor that other person?

Is it going to honor myself?

Is it going to honor my loved ones?

Is it going to honor God?

Or is it going to destroy them whether they even know it or not?

Is it destructive or is it productive?

I love that framework and a powerful question do I love that Luke?

I love that like am I honoring myself, especially the best version of myself?

Am I honoring God and am I honoring or even respecting that other person with with just this thought and and that'll prevent those actions as well.

That's awesome.

I love that.

Let's go back let's go back to your story.

What made you want to go to the Special Forces when you just go in listed in the infantry and then decide to go to a totally new level?

That's that's a different commitment.

It was 2009 and through 10 I was in Iraq again.

And I spent basically that year like contemplating I wanted to do something new because in the infantry you're very restricted.

Your left and your right limits are very, you know, do this and stay inside this lane.

And I had AI had a problem with that because I wasn't allowed to operate where and when I wanted to operate.

So it was for me, it was too restrictive.

And so I spent that year I was either going to option one was do Warrant Officer flight because I've always wanted to fly helicopters and I don't think that'll ever go away.

It's just super neat.

And option two was try out for special forces.

And ultimately, basically I couldn't put down the gun because I was just like being in being in the moment and being on that field, being on the front lines for some reason was just something I don't know at the time.

It was just built in.

I mean, there are folks that did a lot more.

There's always someone that's had done more heroic, more amazing, more out feeling of all of it.

But, you know, I got to do my part, which, you know, was what it was.

But I went Special forces.

Their motto?

Being Free the oppressed.

Love that.

And I did that because so man, I, I went combat arms in part because my dad, but also in part because I thought internally I was like, well, I'm already damaged goods.

I was like, I might as well just do this so someone else doesn't have to.

And as I was going from deployment to deployment or just in training or seeing other soldiers in pain in life in general, even though I was living the type of lifestyle I was living, God was always there.

And there was always a part of me that wanted to help others.

And I just didn't want to talk to him.

And in, in, you know, on deployment, the infantry, I could see people in pain, But we're, you know, you're just this machine as a, as a whole, as the group, you're there for a thing.

And you can't just you can't deviate very much from that.

And so going Special forces, I enjoyed it because I had new, I knew some friends that went and did it.

And then also I was like, they fit.

I thought my personality a little bit better because I was like, they're more autonomous.

They get to go, you know, they get to make more decisions.

They're, you know, working on their own, which ended up being mostly true.

You know, there's still military, so there are still restrictions, which sometimes is a good thing.

Way more autonomy and more capability capacity.

To and and one one of the biggest things that I just couldn't stand in the infantry is is you're the infantry is it's like a shotgun blast.

It's great.

They're necessary, don't get me wrong, but you're going to the the a mass of soldiers and you may or may not be near the enemy.

You may or may not be near any type of you know part of the action because all the areas need to be covered.

Whereas if you know the special operations, it's it's more pinpoint you're going to something you're not just going.

To.

Go like it's it's for a reason and it's you know, and so I that that's.

Interesting.

It's it's more precise like we're this unit is going to take care of this problem.

Yes.

You were you sorry?

Were you in combat, in the infantry?

Were you in in situations?

Yeah, because those were war times.

Those years were were war times.

Yeah.

OK.

You're in there.

I was in I, I did 2003 to four.

I was in Iraq in the invasion and then I did a year in Korea, which is not combat.

We were just up near the DMZ, the Demilitarized Zone.

And then again I went to Iraq in 2009 and 10.

OK.

And so then, then in the Special Forces and then all kinds of options, I imagine and and things you'd.

Yeah, I went here and there with them.

Yeah, probably.

Can't talk about that.

Well, it was focused on the Middle East, right?

So that's, you know, mostly, mostly in the Levant.

And so you did, which is also super cool.

You did learn to speak fluent Arabic.

Well, yeah, yeah, I did.

So we had limited interpreters, you know, and, and most, you know, special forces guys are supposed to learn the language to their area.

And I started out learning modern standard Arabic.

And I was so proud of myself because I got a decent grasp on it, you know, in the schoolhouse.

And I thought I was, I was pretty good, right?

You know, in certain conversational areas.

Certainly I would never call myself fluent.

Even now I can get by like I had to live over there, but I wouldn't say fluent.

Anyways, I was in, I was in Jordan.

And I belted off this whole line of instruction some folks and they were just completely had no idea anything that I nothing, dude.

And I was like, I finish it And I was like, yeah, I got that whole thing out.

I was so proud of myself.

And I ended up being that the soldiers didn't speak modern standard in that area.

They spoke Levantine, which is a different dialect.

And so it was literally there was like some officer in their in their unit.

He was, you know, better educated.

He so he basically was the interpreter.

He's like, dude.

Total.

Miss here.

Yeah, so I was like, man, I really don't know.

I miss the mark big time.

And so later on, myself and a few other guys, we switched over and and we studied Levantine.

Fantastic.

And and that ended up being in the in the Levant.

That's the language you actually want to know.

Yeah, I.

Love that.

I think I've told you before.

I so I, I've, I've committed to become fluent in a new language every five years and I'm on another one.

I'm doing Portuguese right now and finishing up French, but I think I think Arabic will be next.

I just, I want to learn to speak Arabic.

So it's and it's, it's tough.

Prepare yourself.

Yeah, it's incredibly challenging, but it's a lot.

It is a lot of fun.

It's a it's a cool one.

I love it whenever we were in Egypt and and we're just in Morocco again, I just love it, love hearing it's so cool.

OK.

I got I got a couple of different places I want to go one back to this, this idea of special forces versus kind of the normal troops.

And I think you articulated that well.

I think there's a principle there for all of us and maybe every aspect of life that we can go into our health and fitness.

We can go into our marriages, we can go into parenting and we can do it kind of in an infantry level where it's super basic and we're super limited because of basic.

Or we can go it into a kind of a special operations level where we can say, you know what, I'm going to end and I want you maybe even talk to this like, what's the real difference?

What's the real difference between just regular infantry and special forces?

From my outside perspective, having never been so much of it is training and preparation, right?

And, and what is it makes a difference?

What creates the freedom and the capacity?

Is it the training and preparation?

So I don't want to make it sound like I'm bashing the infantry, right?

They're because they're essentially it's, it's they're, they're a different tool in the toolbox designed for a very specific thing, that thing being more mechanical and, you know, go in and smash.

But, you know, there's a lot of good humanitarian style things the infantry is a part of as well throughout.

And it's a lot of really good people.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

So it's it's what are they for?

And, and, and one of the things I would say is that so the infantry is their purpose is, you know, a specific thing and that's they're the main fighting force with all of the support and different other combat arms, you know, basically providing aid to them, which without the support elements providing aid, the infantry wouldn't be able to do anything.

It wouldn't be able to feed themselves.

They wouldn't have bought nothing.

And so, but they're that blunt object that goes in and smashes until they're told not to smash anymore.

And that's where the, you know, with the special forces being more precise and being able to go in, you know, we're not holding ground.

It's not so that we can do smaller numbers, but I would say that that would the different mission sets attract different personality types.

And so you, you spend your, so much time and you know, the, the world of the infantry, you're going to think that way.

You're going to, you're, you're going to process things that way.

And then if you go, when you go into special operations, it's, it's a different culture and it's, it's a different mentality.

So they're just, it's two different lifestyles.

Almost if, if, if that makes sense.

Absolutely different.

My experience, it was almost like I had two careers and each one was half of my Army time, and it was like my time in the infantry and then my time in in special operations.

And they were related, but I would say completely different.

Very different.

I just for me personally, I just love the, the distinction there.

And I think, I think there's some lessons for us that if we wanted to approach things differently, even the, the mindset or the lifestyle or the way we think about things, there's a, there's another level.

And I think we can take it.

And, and you're right, I think it is kind of her personalities maybe or desired outcomes.

But I think there's some lessons there.

We all take and say, hey, you know, if we want to, if we want to do things differently, we want to get different results, we want to have a different approach.

I think there's some some powerful lessons.

And sorry to interrupt but this maybe is important to add here and one of the soft truths is humans are more important than hardware.

Yeah.

And it's because of the nature of, you know, special operations and what they're designed to do.

They can, they can focus more on that where the, the conventional forces, you know, humans are important there too, right?

But also they're, they've got a huge machine to deal with.

But with humans being more important than hardware, that's our side.

That's civilians, that's family members back home.

And to be honest, it's even the enemy themselves is for me is I look, if I'm going to stay true to Christ, then while I'm going to fight while I'm retired now, but like, I would fight, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to fight folks out of hatred anymore.

It's it's, I'm going to still honor those people.

And the hardest thing that I had to do was to forgive ISIS.

I mean, and it comes down to we were soldiers deploying in support of a nation.

It's on, it's in their way.

It's the same thing.

They are militants that are going forward to support their cause.

And so while I don't agree with their reasoning, they still are there because they're doing what they believe in.

And regardless, God created those humans.

And so I have to find it in my heart it's my responsibility to forgive them.

And they've killed friends of mine.

But if I want to be forgiven and if I want to heal, no matter who hurt me, it doesn't matter.

And so for me it's easy because it's like, that's like an extreme thing, right?

And like, ah, the enemy right in, in combat.

Like that's pretty crazy.

I get it, but it almost makes it easier, if that makes sense.

Because it's like, well, God, like God said, forgive, OK, that means everybody.

I can't pick.

So I have to forgive them and try to process and move on.

And it's hard.

That's super hard.

How?

OK, I want to ask this because I know, I know you're still, you're still a warrior.

And correct me if I'm wrong, you would still fight an enemy.

If necessary, yes.

Right, if that's right, if necessary and, and on your terms, right.

So let's, let's just talk about this.

I'm because I'm curious and, and I had to think through this myself because I'm, I'm the same.

I, I believe, like we have to forgive and we have to honor human life and, and yet we still, I think, have to protect ourselves and our families and protect people who can't protect themselves and, and fight if, if necessary, right, if, if violence is necessary.

I have settled in, in my mind that I can be violent and I can fight right.

And still, well, I like, there's this book that talks about having a heart at peace or a heart at war and I can protect and be violent if necessary and still have a heart at peace.

What are your what are your thoughts on that?

I think psychologically, once you go down that route, you can never leave it again.

Like you can process it.

You can come to peace with like if you were in fact, if you had to take an action, right, you're going to remember it forever because it's not normal.

You know, maybe I'd say it like this.

So I use this sometimes in that, OK, there's a, there's a family in their house, right?

And this family, they intruder breaks in, right?

In this state, it's legal.

If someone breaks in, you can terminate the intruder, you can kill them, right?

So exact same scenario, family in the house scenario A and then family in the house scenario B, same criminal, same exact thing, two different stories.

So in scenario A, the intruder breaks in and the father says, all right, it's go time, I'm going to take this person out.

And they're in their heart, they're excited.

And their reason why they're excited is because they get to kill an intruder, right?

And they do it right afterwards.

They're found not guilty because in the eyes of the law, in that state, that's allowable, right?

But in his heart, he murdered that person.

In scenario B, the man of the house does he does the same actions but what happens is in his heart he says I have to do this in order to no.

Desire to do it the.

Desire to do it, but it's a necessity to keep his family safe.

And I think that he, yes, he killed them, but that's different.

One is murder and one is killing and it's totally, it's a heart thing, completely in the heart because one found pleasure in it and one did not.

Yep, totally agree.

That's a great way to describe that.

OK, on on this related topic, let's talk through for a minute.

Just being a protector.

You're married now.

What year did you get married?

In 2017.

And and tell us about your kiddos.

So the 2016 is where you had your change?

Yeah.

And 20 Did you meet her after you changed?

I met her before.

OK, so you already knew her, but you changed that's.

Awesome.

And then so she had to jump on the bandwagon, too.

Really.

So she wasn't already.

She wasn't already going to.

Familiar, but you know, yeah.

So we went through that journey together.

That's awesome.

We both had a history of going to church in the past, but truly that that transformation was for both of us to go through.

Which is so powerful when you're doing it together.

That's awesome and got a couple of kiddos.

Yeah.

I've got a four year old, a 2 year old and our next, our third son is on the way and is due in about a month.

That's.

Awesome, I'm.

So excited.

And another, another little boy.

Oh, that's awesome.

And I'd say one of my favorite things is while my wife went through sort of the tail end of my career, she did have to deal with some deployments which were shorter in Special forces than the conventional Army.

But still heart we're apart.

But my sons never had to live that life.

They never had because we got started later.

They're young and so they never had to watch dad walk out the door and not come home for four or five months, which is.

Different one.

That's a heavy price.

Yeah, wives.

And a lot of guys did that, you know, a lot of guys in the infantry, which I think is, is actually harder because they are gone for longer periods.

Of course, in special operations, we're gone for shorter periods.

But even when we're back home, you know, you're going to this school, you're going to that school.

So a lot of times you're gone anyways.

But my sons, like they were young towards the tail end of my career.

So they're not going to have memories of dad going to war.

They're just going to hear stories about it.

Love it.

OK, let's let's go there.

I want to go.

I want to talk about being a protector, but let's go there as soon as you brought it up.

Time with our wives, time with our children, right?

The the what I have observed and experienced like it's, we have to make it a priority to give both quality and quantity time to our families, right?

And and bring them along as much as we absolutely possibly can.

I.

Learned, and that's the hard way.

And I'm going to do this in a way that doesn't dishonor anyone.

After I left the military, I went to work for somewhere else, right?

And for a time, that's how we met, you know, and I got to go help some folks.

So I got to meet some awesome people.

So I'm not going to bash at all what I will say in that place in that during that time, my time wasn't respected.

And I also was guilty of giving up more of it than I should have because I believe in helping people.

And so in turn, that was abused.

But what had happened was during during my time in that organization made mistakes and here they are.

So my first mistake was I did not allocate time to study and pursue God.

You know, I, I continue to go to church, but my personal pursuit of, you know, reading the Bible on a regular basis, praying, and it's really just doing what I was supposed to do to pursue Christ was at best lacking.

And so on that level, I was failing.

And then my family, they were getting what was left of me because I even even working from home and because, you know, this would come up and that would come up and how can we help these people?

And all the while I'm trying to help all these other people, which I'm still happy to have done.

I'm, I don't want to say neglecting my family, but it's also probably kind of Fair to say that I was neglecting them because they were getting what was left of me at the end of the day.

And that's just, it's not fair, it's not right.

And and so that was that was the 2nd fail is my family was suffering through that and in the moment for for a for a while.

I I didn't see it until.

It's so hard to see.

It's so hard to see when you're in it.

In it because you're like what?

It's just this one thing, I'm going to go, you know, I'm going to do this, I'm going to finish it.

And then, well, there's always something that's going to come up.

And so I neglected God and I neglected family in a sense.

And then also, you know, my inner core, everything came second to that organization, you know, And so I actually heard this from a friend of mine and he told me that, and he doesn't even remember saying this.

We were sitting there having a meal one day and he said basically he looks that.

So he owns his own construction company and they do beautiful homes and, and, and he told me one day he said, because I, I was talking to him about this, this whole ordeal and he's just like, for him, what he does is it's, it's all about your priorities and you prioritize.

What are you going to prioritize?

And for him it was God family and inner circle basically.

And so he said when a new opportunity would arise, would would be presented to him, he would run it through this simple algorithm and be like, does this new opportunity get in the way of my pursuit of God?

Does this get in the way of me being present with my family, loving them and being the father that I should be?

Does it get in the way?

And does it get in the way of whatever is, you know, whatever the any other major priority?

And if the answer is yes, it does get in the way of one of his main priorities, then the next question is, can this new opportunity be modified so that it does not get in the way of God, family, you know, your inner circle, whatever it is, And if the answer is still that, it will get in the way.

Boom, no doubt I love.

It no thank you and easy.

You got to know when to say no that doesn't Yeah.

And it was so simple, like literally he's probably just like saying at the moment, but he you know, he believes it, but he was just saying it and it and then that stuck with me and I was just like, dude.

And I, I've used it since then, you know, and it has, I've had to say no to some, what could be some neat things because they would just pull me away from my priorities and it would just be like before.

Exactly And, and I love that framework.

I've used something similar to that.

And now you have two.

It actually makes decision making easier at least.

Well, you might still want to say yes, but you know what you should say?

It's like it.

It makes it clearer.

It was more yes, what things are No.

Yeah.

You're like, hey, it's interrupting with things that truly matter most.

I think the problem is so many of us, we say that God is first.

We say that family is first, but man, when we find ourselves, we'll like you were saying, well, just this one more thing and it's just for a time, it's just just a little bit.

And then, you know, I get to work with guys who who did that for 10 or 15 or 20 years.

And then their marriages fell apart and, and their kids wandered off and and they're really struggling and they're looking back saying, man, don't do that.

Don't, don't do that is the cost is too heavy.

Man, that's awesome.

Great insights here.

OK, let's talk about being a protector.

And then I want to talk about your business and what you're doing and how that fits into both, you know, fatherhood and, and manliness.

But you know, I guess so tell us about your business.

And I think that fits in with, with being a protector and a provider.

So tell, tell us what you're working on now and what you're doing.

And then just kind of walk through your whole, your kind of philosophy around protecting, providing, being prepared.

OK.

So I founded Sojourner Fieldcraft and there's a story behind that, but I'll start with what we do.

So I do bushcraft and survival courses for folks and take folks out.

And I like to, to do it in a manner to where, you know, it's crawl, walk, run training methodology.

And what I, what I do is I throttle the intensity of each event to the individuals in it.

So I Max out how many people are allowed to come because I don't want to want to, I don't want to crowd.

I want small group so every person can feel like their questions can be answered and we can focus on what they're doing.

So, you know, if I have too many people, then I can't focus on individuals and that's not OK.

And so we do the small group classes where I like to teach people they're capable of far more than they might think they are.

Yes.

You know, you know, through those, through those defense mechanisms over the years that they've, you know, they've set up, oh, I'm not going to go past this.

So they create their own barrier in that subject area.

Now something happens, you know, over here and they create a barrier over there and it just builds up all around.

And so we create this shell around us.

And I'd know this because I did it.

And then what those those barriers that we end up creating over time become a cage.

And you know, you've got to at at some point when I realized that I was like, man, what am I doing?

I was like, I'm limiting my own life because I'm, I've created this cage around myself.

And so, you know, breakthrough that, get rid of that nonsense and, and move on.

You know, and I'm not saying it's easy, but, but when I take folks out to train, it's, you know, watching people's face light up when they light their first fire without matches or a lighter.

You know, when they're using tools like this to start that fire, to build their shelter, purify water, whatever the subject area is that we're going over to show them, hey, you can do this.

Just takes a little bit of practice, but it's there.

And so to watch their faces light up is just absolutely the best.

And so we throttle training to.

Wait, can I, can I pause for a second?

Interrupt you?

Sorry, I want to emphasize that this the skills you teach, I think are extremely useful.

Like they're practical and useful, but some people might see those skills and be like, dude, I'll I'll never do that.

I'll never need that.

And maybe you won't, but what you just described is worth it just for that.

Go have the experience so you can have the inner transformation break free from those cages.

And and the skill you're teaching is just, it's just the, it's a vehicle.

Yeah, but but the transformation and the experience is priceless.

And if we can do that as a family and help our kids have those experiences while we ourselves have those experiences, like literally priceless in a family, in a family culture and a family dynamic and a family legacy.

Well, it's family and it's in whatever business, whether you're a business owner, you're part of an organization or whatever it is because like, yeah, you started the fire.

Who cares?

You may never do that again, but it's it's to build that confidence in in, you know, oneself.

And so when you take that, like, I can do all that weird stuff that guy taught me out of the woods.

And so now I'm going to have more confidence to tackle whatever The thing is I'm doing.

Exactly.

Solve problems in the office or in the in the clinic.

Exactly.

And one of my very favorite things is when family members come together and because so to go into why we started it, the core of it is to help people grow closer together and hopefully closer to God.

I went, I ended up going to Guatemala for a mission trip.

And you know, I went down there.

It was kind of probably a cookie cutter mission trip.

We're going out of an orphanage, We're going to go help some people build some stuff and etcetera.

I wasn't going down with this like, you know, savior complex.

I was, I was appreciative that I was being allowed to go and be part of God's movement, to be a part of what he was doing.

And, and I, I, and I probably got more out of going down there than the locals got out of me, you know what I mean?

And so it was, it was an amazing experience.

And, and it was in Guatemala City and it was this, this wonderful orphanage with a lot of folks with big hearts taking care of, of these kids.

And it was, there was a huge wall around this place and it was like the city was enveloping.

And I don't think that that a lot of folks were excited that an orphanage was there because it was good real estate, but it was staying strong and it was there and those lives were being transformed and kids were being saved.

And it was fantastic.

And it was really special being loud to be a part of it for a time.

Well, when I came home, I couldn't shake the feeling of this sanctuary, you know, because I'd got to experience it down there.

And I was like, I'd like to replicate a version of that.

I was like, I don't know how to start an orphanage, but I like to camp, you know, and so this dream sort of one step at a time kind of developed and is still developing.

And I, I was like, I can just, I can use survival and bushcraft as my platform.

And like you said, the this is just like, you know, doing these skills, you know, with a feral rod starting to fire, you're just starting to fire.

While it's important, that's not the point.

The point is to let people grow together and learn more about themselves and breakthrough these barriers.

And it's been an absolute pleasure.

It's therapeutic for me and I hope, I hope other folks gets a little bit of something out of it as well.

I love.

It and are you still hosting events at your place?

The place where I've been.

Yes, OK.

Yeah, it's.

Awesome, I have.

I have some amazing memories there and it's just some amazing, like you've set it up so well.

I've got some pictures on my phone still of the stars out there.

I love that place.

We just held an event out there last weekend and the skies were absolutely crisp, crystal clear, the stars were amazing and I got to take my oldest son out there.

That's awesome in August bro, that's.

Hot dude, it was.

It's cool.

It's cool right now.

For some reason it was.

Absolutely wonderful.

Oh, perfect.

Yeah, I I think that could be hot and humid there.

Fantastic.

I don't.

Know why?

So, so he and I, before we started the recording, he showed me he has his new pocket guide.

Amazing.

I can't wait to get my hands on it.

And so that'll be coming out hopefully soon.

And so those of you listening can, you're going to want to have that if you want to do any backpacking, you want to do any camping, you want to live and ever leave your home, you should have that pocket again.

Then you have the courses at your place and small businesses or families can go out there.

I don't even know if you offer this, but I know I'm going to plead with you one day to come, like I said, the beginning to come with my family somewhere and go have an experience out in in the wilderness like you to teach me and my kids like legitimate survival stuff in some foreign wilderness.

Like I can't but that.

I sound crazy, but I can't think of anything more exciting than that.

So I'll tell you, I'll put it this way, it is part of our we, we, I've got a, I've had some folks asked me to come out and train them.

And so while it is, you know, a small business and we're developing the sort of infrastructure to it, the answer is 100% yes.

And it's just, it going to be a case by case basis on some folks want me to go down to Texas and, and do a class down there and, and, and name the country and we'll go do it.

And so yes, we will, I will travel to wherever because some, I mean, it's, it's only, it's like some people can come travel to where my property is, you know, and so I'm helping a little bit of the population.

And so this, this actually came into a lot of the processing I was doing.

I was like, I have a very select sort of group of people that are that can come like, one, you have to afford to come to the land and then two, you, you need to be willing to go and do this and embrace it.

I was like, so I'm not getting the rest of the nation.

So I'm like, so we'll travel.

So that solves that and do custom classes.

Absolutely.

I'll do that 10 times out of 10.

Because if, if we could fulfill our purpose, then we need to figure out a business model that can that can handle it.

And so that's where that whole, you know, humans are more important than hardware.

It's still remains true.

And so with the business, I would absolutely, I'll travel and then another part of it.

So we started building those campsites.

I don't know if you saw them out there on the land.

And, and so we're setting it up bit by bit with the infrastructure to make it to where folks who can't go in the woods, who aren't physically capable for whatever reason, I still want to help them.

And so I was like, how do you do that?

I was like, it needs to be a little bit more comfortable.

And so on the Hilltop, that's where we've got the camp pad set up.

And so we can host, you know, more relaxing events.

So folks don't want to go deep into the woods and get ticks on them.

They can still come out and then still experience the stars and still experience that hopefully transformation.

Transformation.

Exactly.

I love that.

OK, let's, let's key in on kind of some of your, your thoughts and frameworks about being prepared as a husband and a father.

Like where, where does preparation fit into a, a, a true vision of manliness and especially as a formidable family man?

It's a.

Great question.

I think for me, so if you look at, so let's start with this.

So with faith, so faith, understanding who I am and being grounded in that is necessary so I can be consistent for others around me.

And so I can be dependable, you know, in every category as often as I can.

And so when I look, when I look to Jesus, he came with all the power he has and had.

He came as a humble servant and, you know, allowed people to treat him the way he did Some some treated him well, some terribly.

And he remained a humble servant while during his lifespan here.

And I like to like if if anything, to look at a role model that's the guy is to go back and look at that.

And and so that's the first.

The first part is having a strong faith and allowing that to be Christ, to be sort of my moral compass and striving to be like him, you know, tripping along the way, but never, never giving up.

And then survival school allows me to continue to do sort of manly side of things, the exciting, getting out in the woods, starting a fire.

And that is a, instead of hatred refuelling me, it's stuff like this now.

And so I go out in the woods and I go do this.

I build a shelter.

I do, you know, I go on a hike and if I can bring my family, I do, you know, because they love it out there too.

And that stuff refuels me and allows me to be a better husband and father because that part of me is fulfilled.

And then I'm, you know, I'm filled there and I can pour that directly.

It's basically just right back out to my way from.

It's beautiful.

Yeah.

And then, and then you're, you know, you're keeping in addition, you're keeping your mind sharp and your skills sharp.

It's like one of my, one of my core beliefs that I just, I'm constantly thinking about is this idea that I want to be useful.

I want to be an asset, right?

And, and in a very real way, we can be a liability or an asset, we can be helpful, we can be useful, or we can actually be a drain or a draw on other people.

And it's possible for all of us, because of our weaknesses and our strengths, it's possible to be an asset in one area and a liability in another, right?

And we're not just going to be across the board.

And so we're all working on that.

We're all struggling along trying to figure things out.

But overall, I want to be an asset.

I want to be useful.

I want to keep my mind sharp, my spirit sharp, I want to keep my body sharp.

And I love what you're doing because I think those are very practical, useful things.

And then like we talked about already, they're very transformative things where if we can solve problems and think and build that confidence and the competence, we can let that, what I call it the trickle effect or the cascade effect, it spills over to other areas of our lives.

And so like you were just saying Jesus was a servant and but he was a very useful, very capable servant.

And so in a lot of ways, I'm like, if I want to be like Jesus, I'm going to be useful.

I'm going to make the most of myself in, in every way I can so that I'm more useful in more opportunities and situations.

And at least for me, it's, it's allowed me to be an asset to my wife and to my children and to a lot of other people.

I have just a privilege and opportunity to just be there at the right time, the right place to to help out.

And so I love what you're doing.

I would say like, and this is kind of an unprocessed thought, but like, if we have a highlight reel of our life, you know, in the end, if you could just watch it, right, there'd be certain highlights.

But doing enough self-care to be dependable and reliable and to be present with our family during the times that didn't make the highlight reel, I would argue that that might be equal to or more important, you know, and, and it's just something to, to, for me, I like to, to process and think about.

And it's just this like, how am I to my family when no one's looking?

How am I to my boys when they're looking up to me?

Is that the authority figure?

Am I, am I worthy of sitting in that position?

You know, and, and I like to think of it like each interaction that I have with, you know, family or friends or strangers, whoever.

I like to think of it like this is like, is this interaction, this is a positive or negative type thing?

Is this interaction going to drive this person further away from God?

Or is this interaction going to to have that person remain neutral in their stance towards God?

Or option 3, is this interaction, is my action going to drive that person away from God?

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So it's it's a way neutral or towards God, Yeah, that we're a catalyst.

I would say we always are.

Like it or not, agree with it or not, we are always a catalyst, Yeah.

And it's either yeah, positive, negative and neutral.

Every, every instance shapes our personality just a touch, yeah.

Exactly.

You know, and I don't and I and I'm not like I'm not saying that I win that every time because I don't, but I try try to do that to say my interaction with this person is going to make their life better or not.

Sometimes I don't want it to.

Sometimes, you know, when somebody gets out of my skin, I'm just like, when I don't, I'm.

Kick you.

Yeah, but like, in the end it always feels better to have treated someone with respect even if they didn't deserve.

It or even if they didn't treat you with respect.

Even better.

Yeah, you, you can walk away.

So, you know, hey, I did the right thing even though I didn't feel like it.

Yeah, man, you, you said something back there that I want to.

It created a thought for me and I want to share it.

You said something like, you know, my preparing when my little boy's looking up at me or my kids are there and just made me think immediately like what am I doing while my kids are sleeping to be better prepared to show up when they're awake right in the mornings when I get up first one up.

And I think, you know, I think I ought to be what am I doing before they get up to prepare for when they do right?

What am I doing to earn the title?

Just because I have kids, You know, I'm always going to be a dad, but I want to be a world class dad and I want to earn that right?

And, and it's when those times when nobody else is watching, what am I doing to earn that so that I'm ready when they wake up and and I can show up for them, my wife.

I was talking about my kids to someone because it's like half my conversations anymore.

And I was, it wasn't in a negative way, but I was just, I was talking about just being a tired new dad, you know, and this guy had like teenagers or something.

So he's further along in Dadville than I was.

And, and, and I, it was just light hearted conversation, but the guy was like, he's like, you know, there's going to be a last time for everything.

He said there's going to be a last time.

They ask you to carry him up the stairs.

There's going to be a last time.

They want you to.

I don't know.

There's going to be a last time.

To put him to bed, there's going to be a last time you changed your diaper.

He's like, so even in the things that might feel tedious now or you know, you might not want to do, eventually those things are going to be gone and you're going to look back and it's and it's going to hurt in a good way a little bit every time.

It's just like he's like, embrace the moment no matter what, you know?

And that has stuck with me ever since a. 100% man, especially at my stage where my youngest is 7.

You know, I, I knew early on with lots of kids, I'm like, OK, still I got some years like yeah, I'm experiencing last times a lot now as they're getting older.

I'm like, so I'm cherishing.

It I'm not ready for that.

Yeah, it's it's hard and and so like your stage, you're right, it's exhausting when the kids are little.

But it's interesting now with me.

I have seven kids and, you know, our oldest is 22.

Genuinely, brother, I miss, I miss the stage you're in with the littles and I love the stage we're in.

I love having adults and teens and I love it, but I miss the little little ones.

It's it's so special.

So cherish those moments, brother.

And I, and I'm doing it too.

Like my little girls came over, they love to wrestle.

We just got new wrestling mats.

So today they're like, do we wrestle?

Like, Yep, let's go, let's go hit the mats, right?

And then I love it.

I love it.

OK, brother, this was awesome.

Super inspiring.

Luke, thank you so much.

Where where can people getting in contact with you?

Where can they find you?

Where can they get your resources?

So we are on, so First off on Sojourner Field craft.com and that's our website where that's where folks sign up for training and everything and, and you can connect with me directly through that.

We're also on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn.

Fantastic.

Love it.

All right, any, any last thought for the men listening, good guys, husbands, fathers, businessmen, a lot of disciples here trying to do life well.

Any any last parting thoughts from something you've learned from your life or just the thought you want to share?

I would say that we've got hills and valleys, right?

And so whether we've where we're the reason we're in a valley or not, it's our responsibility to remain steadfast for those that depend on us.

And yeah, we might fail and we might, you know, mess up a situation, but why we can't change the past.

We can still decide our actions going forward and honoring folks and being that man that others can rely on from today on is the is the man that we need to be.

Yes, even.

Yes, Luke, even if yesterday you weren't that guy, do today be that guy today.

Yeah, I love that so powerful brother.

Thanks for being on.

This was awesome.

Absolutely.