#36 Be Obsessed With Peak Performance, with Jacob Hiller

Gentlemen, welcome to the Be The Man podcast.

I'm your host Greg Denning.

I'm the Creator and Coach inside the Amman master class.

In tribe today.

My guest is my friend.

Jacob Hiller.

We came across, we cross paths, multiple times, is, we are out traveling the world and he is the creator of the jump manual, and has sold millions of copies of his book.

But his story is absolutely Aspiring in destructive.

It has he became obsessed with jumping but not just jumping.

It was the idea of Peak Performance, like how do we get this?

So dialed in and then replicate, how can I teach others?

And so he created the jump manual and he is his vertical leap and his Fitness.

His story is super inspiring but he's also been able to help so many people around the world, increase their physical fitness.

And so if you're, if you're at all interested in physical, Fitness and vertical jump as I am, you'll love and appreciate this, but it goes beyond that because we talked about how those principles of being obsessed with jumping carry over to other areas of life, for one creating his hugely successful business and then his travel lifestyle.

But also, how we can take this Obsession, it's curiosity.

This passion is drive to ask the right questions and find the right answers and bring it into our life.

So jump in No.

Going to enjoy this conversation with Jacob and learn a lot.

I learned so much of a super inspired by story.

No, you're going to do this.

Let's go.

Hi Jacob, thanks, thanks for being here, man.

Well as fun, just on a personal note is fun.

Catching up with you again, bro.

Yeah, and it's been a lot of years.

I've been watching your travels and our travels and crossing paths years ago.

Had some fun memories man, just wasn't a Guatemala.

Yeah, we did.

That's it.

We're out of the lake on the water.

You guys have that place right there on the water man.

Has some fun fun memories man.

Fun memories connecting.

But brother, I'm glad to have you here because You've got some, you've done a well, a bunch of traveling, all over the place, I want, maybe touch on that, some of that, and then in business expertise, but let's just back up.

Give us a bit of background.

Like how did you get so deep into what you, what you do and jumping?

Well, even in the whole background.

Anything anything is free game.

That gives your background, how you get you you carved out a space for yourself in the jump world and it's pretty amazing.

So give us some A background story there.

So you know, when I when that started going and people started buying our book about how to jump higher, they started buying my book and it was like, you know, where did you come up with the idea for this Niche and things like that and to be honest like since since I was a kid there was just a little Obsession.

I don't know whether it was watching like dunk videos but I was like man one day one day I want to get this you know?

And I would I the boots and I'd buy these training programs and I lived out in the country on a farm and so we would just, I would, I would get the, you know, these programs.

And then one day when I was on my mission trip, I started kind of cracking the code in the mornings you know before I go out doing missionary work started like doing some exercises and I'd go out to the playgrounds and I was finally starting to jump higher.

I was finally starting to crack.

Ha sizes.

I didn't have much but I would use like cans of gas, you know, and in these countries where you got to use propane tanks.

And so I was using propane tanks for my exercise.

I was like, oh, this is this is it?

Well, I got like you were holding your holding them and jumping.

You give us an idea.

What those exercises look like.

You got did exactly whole time attacks.

Yeah.

Yeah, yes.

I started gathering this Theory and like, how I'm That type of person.

Like I just started getting super deep into it and then I started strapped like when I got home from my mission, I started strapping up like electrodes to myself and like seeing what fuck I want muscles fired when I did certain things and if when I jumped the same neural patterns were firing and you know, maybe about three or four months after I got home, I started kind of get my head to the room and it was like, oh shoot, this is crazy.

Turned on YouTube started talking about it.

It people ask questions.

I didn't even know that there was a whole, you know, other people doing this.

I was just like man I kind of cracked the code they're like man, you need to write us an e-book so I started writing an e-book and then next thing I know it's starting to sell and then it's starting to sell more sorry self more and I'm and then suddenly I'm like with this and then next thing I know I'm dropping out of school and it was like you know, we had sold tens of thousands and then I'd sold hundreds of Of up to 100,000 of them and it was just yeah it was it was unexpected and just more of a product of an obsession then it was like a strategy or plan.

It was like I've got to figure out how to make a website.

Gotta figure out how to get affiliate program and each step was just an awkward first step into in the new space for me and so yeah, that's how it happened and then I ended up just traveling and sell The book and and that's, that's what what happened.

So cool.

Well, it's such a cool story and I love, I want to.

I want to Circle back to several listings, but I love this idea of like, you just, well, you can't even tell you just fell in love with the thing, which a lot of guys do right?

We fall in love with something, we get excited about something.

I'm an excitable guy, and I know a bunch of you and a bunch of guys will relate to this, like you go to martial arts gym, and you while you're there.

You're like, dude.

I want to be a ninja, and then you go to the weight room, you're like, I want to be on to be stacked, right?

Or you go out on the basketball court or volleyball court, you like, I want to jump out of the gym, like I almost want to dumb it, and so we get this excitement.

But I think for a lot of people kind of Fizzles off, right?

It they'll go a little bit with it here and there but it goes off it.

I love how you're saying your obsession LED.

You like, I'm going to figure this out.

Yeah.

What was that?

What what took you deeper do?

You think?

I don't know if it's my personality but I was just the type of person that like I don't know why I never gave up because like I try to program and it didn't work and I got the shoes and it didn't work and they told me to go, run stairs and it didn't work and it was just like, I don't know why, but I was going to jump, I like it just wasn't going to stop and like, even went into college and then like, so when it finally started working I'm like this is Is actually getting traction and it got Higher and Higher and like I go back to the gym and people were like, yo, what what happened and it was I'd be just jumping out of the gym like it touching my head to the rim and just just Duncan form, you know, it's just my thing and yeah, I don't know.

It was just since I mean we got we got videos in the running outside you know, the moon boots, they have like little trampolines on them.

Like I'm like nine years old and so like, you know, the strength shoes, they had the platform.

Like my, they were too big there and my brother.

So I would put my actual shoes inside of that.

Yes.

Yeah.

I don't know why.

I just, I'm just the type of person, I think that when it's like, and the good thing is it worked because, you know, maybe it wouldn't have, I don't know.

And I just spent all that time, I was learning stuff, he knows always learning.

And then when it got to the level of like, okay.

You know what?

I figured out that you could strap electrodes to yourself, where do I get one from those?

Yes.

So I went back Hoover and bought one of these machines for like two thousand dollars and just like started strap, put stuff on watching the screen seeing like the EMG, you know.

So it was just like, how far can you take it?

So man, this this is so cool to hear you say this.

I didn't know the details of, that's the story, but it's amazing.

The guys that keep interviewing, there's these common denominators and that's one of them is like, I'm going to figure this out.

And I'm just going to keep pushing until I do and I love that you did that.

So just just for fun for these guys.

Because you and I had talked about before, tell us how tall you are and tell us like like how high was your vertical when you were like at your Peak?

So, you know, I'm 63 63 or 64.

Okay.

Stop right there because some of you might be like a maybe like six seven or so 63 64, and you're getting your head to the rim.

Like, that is yeah, the like that my height.

I was always able to kind of measure my vertical base on how close my head was to the rim and that's how you also like you here like in the a players jump like 50 inches.

Well if for example a my height, 40 44 in 43 inches is like head to the rim, you know?

It's 63 64 44 inches.

So when you hear that, a basketball player like LeBron James, they say always got a 46 inch vertical.

Just keep in mind, if he, if he jumps 46 inches and he's six foot nine, then the rim would be here.

You know what I mean?

So it gives you an idea of like how happy people are really jumping, you know, to be to be 69 and jump. 46 inches, LeBron?

James and hit the rim.

Would be at his neck.

Yeah.

So Yeah, I was about 43 44 inch vertical and that's so awesome.

And then, you know, I didn't figure, I didn't figure out the craziest stuff till I was probably 34.

So like I figured out a big chunk of it and then I figured out some more stuff with some bands, like elastic bands that I had that I kind of figured out.

And by the time I was 35, I was probably jumping the highest I jumped in my life and I was like, man if I've been This since I was 19.

Yeah, awesome.

Okay.

Well okay couple I got all kinds of questions fire here.

I want to dive into the things, some of the things you figured out that just work but what are what our total sales so far on your ebook?

You have any idea of the a guesstimate they're probably around eight million.

Probably eight million males.

Yeah, that's awesome, brother.

That is so cool, man.

So cool.

Okay, so share, just a couple of things like those pivot Points where it's almost like, I don't know.

If you're familiar with the the hits called the Mastery curve or the path of Mastery.

It's like where you go up, you hit a boost you go up and then you're trying to figure things out for a while and they hit another boost.

It sounds like your story was kind of like that hit something and going for a while and then hit another thing.

Yeah.

What were those markers where things just like?

Well, I really felt a difference there.

You know, when I was on my mission and I started doing these exercises and I was like it's got to be the exercises, got to look like the activity.

And, you know, a lot of that is kind of true for a lot of things in life.

Like you get people doing all the calf raises and these things.

But I realized I like the movement that's going to relate to reality has got to look a lot like the movement you're practicing and so it was like functional fitness edited.

Yeah.

Right.

Like oh oh, you know and so and the intensity levels got to go higher than I realized like a strength plus the quickness.

That's what explosion is when you put the two together and so I think those were the first moments but I don't it's hard to pinpoint.

A what moment I realized that I was an expert at the subject because I think for a long time I didn't consider myself to be one and I don't know that I ever would have had I not like started doing interviews with other people who were considered Professionals and starting to think, kind of disagree, you know what I mean?

Or like kind of like realizing that I had answers, you know, that were different or that, I like better or that these people who you, kind of put them on a pedestal of, like, they are absolutely, you know, astronomical experts.

They know so much more than you realize, like, actually actually know.

And I don't know when I transition from, that's huge, Susie assist to the guy who had the answers for Buddy to maybe I know more about this subject than anybody else in the world and was and I'll, you know, something else that's interesting about being an expert.

So to speak is like, you just yeah.

Like how you how you qualify for it.

How you how you just keep Gathering if you if somebody would have given me my plan that I did and said hey go do the go do this plan and it would have worked out.

When the big qualified to teach it the way I do, right?

You know what I mean?

So it's like this struggle.

The needing to like figure out why that doesn't work.

Why that doesn't work?

Why that doesn't work qualified me to get in front of people?

They asked me a question and speak with you.

No Authority about why things work or don't work.

And when somebody gives you a plan and says, go do this and it works.

Well, you got it's hard for you to feel the the authority to teach that.

That plan.

And so I find that that's sometimes, like, when I learned anything, I'm just I'm a little reticent to want to take a plan even though I know it'll make my life easier because when I get through my own struggle, do my own stupid things make my own failures.

You also just like have this qualification for understanding why and what works, what doesn't work?

So I have a certain respect for getting there on my own, right.

Even though I liked some of the stuff I like And and and sometimes I look back on stuff.

I'm like a people were teaching this thing in another way, but I couldn't understand until I came up with my own name for it, came up with my own process for it.

Sometimes people be like, yo what you what you said has been invented that already but it didn't matter because I meant, you know, I mean I have my name for it and I had my Discovery for it.

So I don't know.

Whether it's always smart to just take your own path and not take outside information.

And that wasn't really my plan.

I was just kind of that guy, but, yeah, there's man, there's something to be said there about the trial and error personal experience.

Like when you get your hands on it and you work through it.

And you, you're, you're in love with it, you're pushing, you're willing to push through the failure and the successes and, and come out with your own story.

I think there's something to be said for that.

I feel that way about travel.

I'm sure you have to use, like, you like my buddies.

Okay.

Well, I was just thinking either day because you guys spent a bunch of time in South Africa.

Right.

And our friends, our friends just flew in from South Africa, there is down there, and they were telling us, although the most epic stories about South Africa, but I've never been in some hearing this, I'm seeing their pictures on his great, but when you go to a place, Like now you're like I got this and so you know, we talk about Guatemala and I can meet Lee picture.

Oh yeah, where you were on that little village and the hill with the lake, right?

And it fills in, there's something to be said about your own personal experience with it.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah and it's so cool.

So your will give us give us some of those exercises.

I know?

I mean and I yeah, activate your manual.

Everyone should get the manual.

If you have any desire to jump for basketball or volleyball or whatever.

I mean, when you this is the coolest thing and you can explain this like when your body is able to do things that you want it to do and it responds, This is the coolest feeling, it is the coolest feeling and I, yeah, listening to understand that like, when you, when you pay a price to work on any part of your body, and then you just be getting up from the couch and like everything's tight.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Are you wrestle with your kids, still right, when your body dies, that's is the most incredible feeling.

So what, what started to work, man, you know?

So when I came down to it, so the jump manual is about nine different variables and When people are like, hey man, you know, show me, I tell them the big three and the big three for jumping higher, our strength, because without strength, you can't move, you can't move weight and if can't move wait, you can't move in fast.

So you gotta be strong, you got to have a certain amount of strength then you got to have quickness and quickness is really about your brain.

It's about your central nervous system and it's about a skill.

Jumping is a skill just like Some people can snap their fingers with the left hand.

They can't with the right or vice versa.

It's not that your right hand is stronger.

Or if you throw a baseball, you can throw a baseball way faster with your right hand and your left hand.

Not that your left hand is stronger.

It's that the nervous system skill, the skill set of firing your muscles and orchestrating them in a certain pattern.

Exactly.

And you do that through repetition.

And so the central nervous system quickness is part of that.

You put the strength together.

And the and the neural pattern together and now you got explosiveness, if you're only strong, maybe you could push.

Wait, but you can't push it fast.

So you got to learn how to use the strengths that you have.

Within this, this skill set, this neural pattern.

So I mean, jump in is like, snapping your fingers or throwing a baseball.

It's a neural pattern that you Groove and you group with your strength.

So that, you know, and so that's technique.

So those three things altogether, your Technique your strength in that neural pattern, They work together.

Those are the big three and so cool.

Yeah, it's so cool.

And well, I love that.

You just explain that.

Sorry.

I like to geek out about this stuff to quickness.

You think where does quickness come from?

Is it is it a different type of muscle?

Is it?

Different body part?

But I love what you're saying there.

It's like it's the central nervous system and it's neural patterns and you're literally training your brain and your body to work in conjunction to do something.

That's real cool.

Yeah so one thing that the last stuff that was working faster and better than anything else is I would take a barbell and I would put bands hanging from the barbell.

So a little bit of weight, I put the barbell and I take bands and I hang them down and strap them to like a few kettlebells, so they couldn't move or an anchor if I had them.

So now you have you have the you know, the resistance element, right?

But You know, if you take a phone for example, you throw this phone in the air, it takes inertia, or if you drop your hand, the phone stays in the air for a second drops, right?

When you got the band's, you can't escape the resistance of the Bands.

So it's pulling down on you faster than gravity much faster than gravity.

So when you get in the jump position and you're going through the exact same joint angles because your strength needs to be at the specific joint angles that you jump strength is specific to Your joint angle.

So you got the barbell on you pulling on you faster than gravity and then when you drop down into the jumping position now, you're not escaping that wait for a second and experiencing no resistance.

So, you're experiencing an eccentric resistance, no matter how fast you drop down.

And then when you push back to your explosive phase, now, you're pushing against a resistance.

That is not only strong, but it's fast.

And so when the resistance is fast, that means your body is fighting Whirring fast and so bands, they give you an opportunity to train faster than gravity.

And so if you're doing that at a high resistance, if you're doing that pushing a strong durable drive, then now you're training, your body's joint, angles your training, it been high resistance, your training with a specific movement and your training, it to fire.

Like if you, if you had that screen hooked up and you had the the EMG machine firing, you'd see.

Hey all the right joint angles and muscles are firing through just Firing faster and they're just firing a greater amplitudes than they were if you're training with dead weight.

So that's a sport specific fashion and gravity High Resistance and always training.

The movement is going to get you.

Something we're jumping.

Oh man, this is so cool.

And in my mind, I'm always looking for applicable lessons to life and you're hitting so many of them.

It's like these formulas right?

So it's like a Venn diagram.

What you have here is like there's this Venn diagram for what's for jumping, right?

Strength?

Quickness technique and getting the right at the right angle and and training that way, right?

So that you create this Venn diagram and then The Sweet Spot.

You just nail it.

But it when I love that, you said that, you can you train faster than gravity, right?

Yeah.

That then you find the system, like, wait a minute, how can I how can I just absolutely maximize what I'm trying to learn.

And there's there's tricks to doing this with memorization there's tricks to doing this with well whatever anything you want, business relationships, health and fitness, I mind emotion Spirit like whatever like what's the formula and then how do we get there like explosively, right.

You how do you get there quickly and figure this man, I love this really love is how how quickly can you know, people come to you all the time.

And you've worked with so many students.

How quickly can people see improvements?

You know, there's there's something to happen.

If you're a new athlete and you've never really trained this way, I mean you could start to realize inches, you know, in months and it's because some of those gains you got gains in different ways.

You know you got games that come from your muscles breaking down and building back up and that's a process that takes time, right?

But you also have gains from learning tricks techniques.

Like, for example, a lot of people don't know that when you jump, you should.

Take a long step followed by a short step because the long step drops your body down lower, you know, the your legs are longer.

So your body drops lower.

And when you perfect that you, you create a better technique, you kind of create a trampoline effect, when you jump.

So, the technique work, you could gain three to six inches, you know?

Some people can gain 3 inches in a day because they're learning how to jump better.

Just like they're learning how to shoot better.

It's a technique.

It's a mechanical.

Mechanical advantage through a mechanical strategy.

So then you have your central nervous system work that over time you grew a stronger neural pattern, you know, just like throwing a baseball.

For example, if you never knew how to throw a baseball, you could turn a corner where you figure out how to orchestrate your body, the right way.

Now, you got a new neural Groove and your strength can start pouring into that do neural group.

So, your central nervous system work can also sometimes click and you could get three to six inches, you know, pretty quick.

And once you get past your beginner gains, you've mastered the movement, you've mastered the technique, then you're on the long road, you're on the long road.

So like you going to gain your three, six, eight inches.

Now you're going to be at a high level, right?

But if you want to get to Elite levels you literally got a buckle up and you got to be ready for you know, years of this.

Because people like a wide.

My vertical go down.

Well that's because you're training the right things?

If you if you, if you don't have dips you're not training them, right thing.

If I train my hand to get stronger, it's not going to affect my vertical negatively, right?

But if so, so training, your hand has nothing to do with jump, but when you train exactly the right muscles, the next day, you're going to take a dip and that it means train the right thing, you know what I mean?

So it's like, Once you get past those, you know, those initial easy Milestones, if you've got to be ready to grind and the grime will mess with you is is working, you know.

And then it's incremental, it's like, hey, you know you've gained maybe six maybe nine inches, but if you want to gain 12 10 plus inches, you got to be getting like you know, these type of games, alright?

And yeah.

And over time those little bitty gains when you're consistent they just pile up.

And after a while you realize Holy crap, you know I'm I've reached a level and so the best way to get there is to every day tracking like every single day.

I do a Max jump Groove in the neural pattern, figuring out what my Baseline is right.

And then one day, it's like oh never touch that.

I'd always we have this and this is kind of applicable in life.

We I taught all my guys like you got to have a Mojo and it's an object just Out Of Reach, my object just Out Of Reach my mojo, right?

My Just Out Of Reach though.

It's like, and I told, guys, listen, if you're not reaching for your mojo, then I don't have any guarantee for you because unless you're reaching every single time you execute then you're not going to be pushing towards that sealant.

You're going to be going through the motion.

And jumping is not something.

You can go through the motion before.

You can't jump a thousand times and jump higher Noble.

You it's an intensity level Improvement than.

So if you don't, what I would do is I'd always have a measuring tape, right?

Stick something in the ceiling and I know.

Okay, that's my mojo.

I can touch it now.

I got to touch it with my knuckle.

Now, I got to touch you with my fist.

Now, I got to touch with my so it's just always keeping it just Out Of Reach because jumping like I said, it's an intensity level thing.

It's not been endurance thing at all.

You have to always be pushing, do levels of intensity man.

Bro.

You are throwing down the object lessons for life here.

Yeah, you're spot on this.

That's so applicable to life.

And and I love love, love love that the research, the science that just the common sense backs that up.

If you just go through the motions of it, it won't make a difference.

You have to do it, right?

And you have to do it with intensity.

You have reaching, you have to be chasing something.

And you know what's crazy is like these things like in Middle in schools like we had a coach he could dunk right and what did he do?

Hey you run stairs, you run stairs, you don't run stairs to jump higher.

And you know, it's just crazy that at these high levels in like what a Michael Jordan do.

Everyone Michael Jordan says, well, I rode my bike a lot.

So what do people say got to ride your bike?

You don't ride your bike, jump higher, you know what I'm saying?

So it's just funny that like what I'm saying seem so calm Since yet, go out there in the world and people are telling you and I was, I had a summer where Iran stairs like my life depended on it because I was like, hey, this guy can do what I want, right?

He says run stairs.

Well, I was running stairs and didn't work but it's just it's just crazy.

Like the things that I say now it's they seem like they're they seem calm most common sense when I say him, but for a lot of people They're they're they're going to Whole, they're going down the wrong road, they're going down a back alley, you know, and so another great life lesson because it's not, it's not all that common, it's not, it definitely not common practice, right?

That's, that's awesome.

That is so.

And then what you were saying, emphasizing again, like once you get past the big games, right?

Which happens to all of us, we get into something new and exciting and you're like yeah this is awesome.

You get the Burson man.

You get the endorphins in the rush and like this is so cool and making the games.

Right.

If you're, if you want to go to Elite levels in anything, then it's just you got to put in the work for a long time and the little gains will stack.

But too many people pull out because they're like I do I worked so hard for that like that half inch like, you know.

Oh yeah.

That's not enough.

I'm out.

Yeah, they stopped.

Yeah.

And you know what?

Greg, I don't know the secret.

Like I wish I knew like what got me through those Old winners, you know, so to speak like to sometimes.

Like even though I done it before when I'm 30 years old, you know, I'm no longer this 26 year old.

I'm like 34 years old and like, it took me months, you know, six months to get to that Elite level again and then a year, you know, and just kept going, but like, the first time I did it.

I don't know what, I don't know what it was.

It was like, it.

Keep going, hey, keep going.

I don't know what.

I really don't know what it was, but I know that once I did it once.

It certainly helps and be like, and it was still hard.

There were still times like this working, is this working?

And then one day, your game sneak up on you.

And I think that's true in life to.

It's like suddenly, you're like, yeah, you get that day.

And it's like, oh, so it's working.

And that's like that.

Little, that little gift that keeps you.

That keeps you going in the hard times, too?

Oh my goodness.

That is so good.

Hey just it makes me think because I, you know, I get to coach people every day.

So do you?

And I just keep thinking, like, whatever it is, we're chasing whatever it is.

You want.

If you can, if you can stay hungry and take the same model you're talking about, don't just listen to the whatever ride your bike, run the stairs.

Yeah.

Get get a little stuff and then stick with it and the days you don't feel like it.

Well, do it anyways.

And and then the gain will sneak up on you.

You'll be like, yeah, but that just popped out of nowhere and it seems like we're so lucky.

And yeah, it's working.

And then you get your reward and then back to work.

Yeah.

You know, you know, what's crazy and with jumping like people would get my program and like, all the stuff that I'm telling you is in the book, right?

And then they would send me.

Hey, it's not working for me.

They send me their videos right now.

Look at the videos and I'm just thinking to myself as I'm watching their videos.

Those and they're doing when they're exercises and I'm just like, what are you reaching for?

I'm like, I can't old.

I don't know how many times I say in the book.

If you don't reach a certain at the, I called the Improvement Zone in the general Manuel, high quality improvement Zone and I show people like, if your training is always at this level right below the Improvement Zone, you can do more of it and more of it.

Doesn't matter if you don't touch the Improvement Zone level of intensity, you never get the super compensatory effect that your body's looking for period period.

And so like I see people come see me their videos and I'm like, I'm sorry but you just not going hard enough.

You're not hitting the intensity level, you know what I mean?

And it's and you can see it on the first of all, what are you reaching for?

And how often have you touched it?

When's the last time you touched your mojo?

You Even touched your mojo, you don't even have a Mojo.

You're not even reaching for your mojo and if you don't, if you don't I can't help you.

You can't help yourself because it's not like a marathon running or losing weight.

Like you literally, like they're be nice just like every night to be like, here we go.

I'm not be in my head about it just like this time.

This jump right here is going to be the one.

Nope, this jump right here is going to be the one.

No.

And, you know, It's just like you got it.

You got to bring it each one, this is huge.

So even if you get to a point where you're doing the right thing the right way, you've got to have the Mojo, you got to get Improvement.

I love that Improvement Zone.

Intensity like willing to just put it on the table right now.

I'm like let's go for this moment.

Yeah, if you hit that there is a with jumping because it requires your central nervous system to spike at a higher level.

In its ever spiked, it requires your muscles to be taxed at a level that induces the super compensatory growth effect.

So in order to hit both of those levels, you have you have to hit a certain intensity level and if you don't hit it you just can't.

You just can't grow.

You just can't do it so awesome.

That's so awesome.

Let's kind of shift into the business sexfest of and take take these things.

Like I love guy you just started throwing things on YouTube and there was a response to.

Then you wrote your book and got cells from there.

And you kind of referenced earlier you had, you know, each awkward first step.

How did?

Because I know you facilitated business growth.

I mean there was a lot it just started going because you were results.

Don't lie man.

So you got results for yourself and results for others as well as It takes off, but then how what were some of those business strategies that worked for you?

What worked in business to really get explosive growth?

Yeah, you know, I think that the first thing that really work for me was every piece of content that I made was for somebody.

So when someone I've make a YouTube video, people would ask these questions.

So I've had times where like, maybe I talk about a video because it's interesting or I think that the content is impactful, right?

But the way I created, my content was like, every single video is directed at some stangl person.

Some real person who had a question about something.

And so I think making videos and content that was focused on certain people, every single Nothing.

Somebody else was going through that struggle and so I think that was a big thing.

It's just like, hey figuring out how to release content that impacted one person and having a flow for that.

Not overthinking it.

Like, my my production quality was never the highest but the content that I've produced always help one person and somebody on there would be like, yo that's my question and then, you know, there would be others.

I looked at my channel the other day and I'm honest.

Founded that there's still some of my stupid videos are still just like, I made this video about how to Bone basketball some kid.

Want to know how to Palm a basketball like I'd gone through that struggles plug and like that, video turns out to be one of my biggest videos ever.

So just making content that, that isn't what we think is cool, but is resonating is going to touch one.

Person was helpful.

That's massive.

You're speaking to what it Is it keeps you speaking to people to a person is not objective crowd, like, a brother?

I'm, I'm talking to you and then, if it resonates, it kind of changes the voice in the tone and yeah, that's powerful, right?

Yeah.

Because it can be easy like you do you know, your topic can be easy but camera to talk about such and such thing and maybe it'll impact somebody but sometimes we talk to ourselves that point and we don't know, you know, but what I would do is I would just make a list of every question.

I had, right?

I turned on the camera and I'd answer one question and then I clap and I'll answer another one and I clap that answer another one and it's in an hour.

I have, you know, 20 pieces of content and I just cut all those up distribute them.

You know, have somebody transcribe them, write them on the blog you know, distribute them to every site as I could and so it was just like and then once I asked answer to those questions 100, more questions came in.

And after a while I was like man I feel like I've answered every single question in this Marketplace and then that's where it was challenging to me.

Greg is was like okay I've answered this question 500 times but the same book people are still ask and so you just yeah I'm curious about their then what then what when you've answered.

Yeah, you know what, you just you just keep addressing people.

You know, for me I just keep addressing people on somebody who I think is the master at this is If you've heard of the knees over toes guy, but he's an interesting guy.

What I love him because like, when I was in 2000, like, 89, like I was telling people, hey, when you jump, guess what happens to your needs?

They go over your toes.

And at this time it was like, people were like never squat over your toes, right?

And so, like I kind of got in the fire for people saying, hey, you can't do that and I was like, well, look at your jumping.

If you don't train for that position, you're just going to be vulnerable.

Honorable in it.

And I love that.

This guy took a concept on his own and he, he made that his USB, you know, he made that as unique position.

But if you look at his videos, I swear, he talks about the same thing, every single video.

Yeah.

But like it's engaging and like, he talks about it with passion and like, he's just doing it every day.

And I think like, and you see, you see what he's been able to accomplish athletically to.

And like, he just shows that like, hey, This is he just, he just shares his grind and I think that's what it was for me too is just like, you know, I was doing it every day and so you know, sharing the like hey you gotta you gotta you know embrace you know the struggle and and just keep addressing people.

And yes man live living what you're teaching.

One of the things I love to Sarah's like if you don't live the message then you just suck as the messenger, right?

Right?

And so like, I love it, just sharing your own grind, staying in it going after it and then, yeah, and there is, there is this repetition, but it can still be engaging in the people.

Still the passion, hear the message and your, well, I can see this genuine desire.

You have to help people reach their goals, if they want to jump, man, you like I can help you do that.

And that's a, that's a cool thing.

It's funny cuz like It's jumping, but it became a platform for like, I don't know.

I just felt like, you know, I got to touch people in certain ways and like even though it's just jumping, like it's just anything, you know, everything you do is just anything and so how you approach it, and how you get to the touch people and like, even just the nuances of how you speak to people, like it became something where I felt like I had to try and, you know, like I had a platform to just edu.

Yeah, it's just interesting me like that, that became my tribe, those people who came my people and you know, they would send me messages.

Oh my gosh, you have no idea what you do.

I'm going to name my child at you get these like kids who don't for the first time like I had kids be like coming name my child after you and they're totally serious.

Awesome, man.

Yeah, and you build a community around it, you get you travel people, he connects.

You're helping people reach their goals, you're right.

That's a great Point man.

It you could say I was just jumping or if it's just anything, but if you're helping people reach the things they want, if you're helping people this is like this is a classic Zig Ziglar like to get the things you want.

Help people get the things that they want and that's what you've done man.

Yeah there were just every one of those people was me.

I was like man I know what it's like to be that kid and for some reason the jumping Obsession.

I don't know if you ever Had it Greg?

Oh yeah, man.

I don't gave it to me, but I was just like it was the thing.

I was like to float like that to fly like that.

That's that's the thing.

And now that I'm older, I'm just like, you know, it's not quite as important to me to reach those levels and and and to jump like that.

Like I had surgery on my bicep.

Now, I'm of aged, you know, I've gone through pains and I'm at a different stage in my life, but I look back on just like, man, how?

In, was it that that was it for me.

You know what I mean?

That was everything.

That was at one point my life.

You know?

That's so cool.

No, I did.

I played.

I played volleyball.

We had a sand volleyball court in the backyard and then I got on a Junior Olympic team and then he played a little bit in college level and so, yeah, I was I was obsessed thing with jumping and I have one point have 101.

I love that feeling of just two Being alive.

Oh yes, I'm gonna smash.

Yeah, right.

And I think maybe it's jumping because like somehow you feel like when you when you can overcome that your, your greater than human, I don't know if that's what it is.

I don't know why that thing, you know.

And, you know, it can take any a lot of the people who I had was for basketball, but then we have people like didn't know.

Badminton jumping was a big deal in Bad.

Ben had a whole Chinese.

Group of people always tell me to me.

I had people who did ice skating and it was a big thing, like jumping for ice skating.

I had people who did it for parkour training so it's like I didn't realize like I was always doing it for basketball, but there was this whole I had a baseball, a baseball team as I can.

You come teach us to jump for baseball?

I'm like, I don't know.

At the time I was like, it was like, well, we noticed that our highest jumpers are our hardest.

Hitters because it's the same.

Well, Howard.

And I'm like, alright, that's incredible.

That's super cool.

Wait.

Oh man, my son does parkour.

He's actually he's a stuntman now.

I don't know if you had Parker's doing stunts.

So really he's a professional.

Wow, it doesn't surprise me.

Yeah, right.

But and and the kid is jumping and jumps a ton and it makes a huge difference in the things he's able to do.

Which is really?

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah.

So maybe like a glorified it for me I always said that hey jumping is the most athletic thing, a human being can do and it informs every other athletic or non-athletic thing you do with your body.

So that's how I glorified it to me and I still I still believe that to a high degree that it's like, hey, we're not just training in jump higher.

We're training the most elite type of movement, the most complex type of Movement that requires all your systems, your strength, you know, your tendons everything.

So like yeah that's in my mind.

I was like this is the ultimate human, you know, achievement that's like and you're fighting like gravity so I love it and it's that combination of you have to want it and then have the strength and the technique and the explosion right in the quickness.

And it takes the time and training and then you're Defying Gravity to a point of like, I'm seeing How high I can get off the Earth, but my own efforts.

There's some cool.

There's some cool life lessons right there, man.

I love that.

Yeah, let's just let's just touch for a moment like what how succeeding in your passion.

Since you were a kid man.

Just chasing this down and working through it.

And it sounds like you didn't grow up thinking, oh, I'm going to make this my business like but it didn't came your business.

How did, how did success then play out to other areas your life?

Like, I know one was traveling like crazy Investments, like just share a little bit of like some of the, the side benefits of chasing greatness.

Yeah, you know from from from an actual perspective, it's like one of the first problems I have was like, hey, how am I going to?

I got to figure out a website.

So I had to figure that out and I'm the type of person who is going to do it on my own and then it was like, oh now I got to figure out how to do customer support.

You know, I've got thousands of people and I am overwhelmed by email and I think about like how could I do this?

And then so like one thing led to another so that was like ebooks like we're when I was in when I was doing this ebooks, were not easy and so I created an e-book software and so they just led me and I've noticed that's the pattern, like not know how to do something, get obsessed about it, my passion, then pours over to sharing it with other people and then selling it.

And for me, that's that's kind of my pattern is, like, figure something out.

And then I understand the struggle and it's not until I understand the struggle.

That are really feel like I start really helping people and I think so in a weird way, I don't know if it's being stupid or hard-headed but being someone who struggles with things, somehow always qualifies me to to get to the next step.

Whereas like if I just had somebody build my website, or if I just had somebody do the customer support.

So it's almost like going the hard pass, figuring it out.

Of my own always would qualify me for what I was going to do in my next step.

So almost every Everything I did was you know something I created to overcome a struggle and then that struggle qualified, my passion to be like other people are struggling with this.

That's why even now today, like there's so many good tools out there for us, but there's no tools out there that will go help you struggle and sometimes you need that struggle, just just to qualify.

Bye.

And so I'm always just grateful for the struggle even though I never in the moment, I'm just grateful for the struggle and grateful for having seen so many things to fruition.

And then you just realize like, hey is this the grind?

Yep, this is the grind.

And here we are.

And so just like in jumping like got to bring that intensity and that passion to every day of the grind or your grind is just going to Plane off.

So man, That that's one of my new favorite quotes right there.

Brothers.

That the struggle is the qualifier, man.

It really is and if yeah it's come point.

Just so this personal level between you and you yeah, going to struggle with something.

Are you willing to show up and pay what's on the price tag of whatever the is you want?

And the struggle is a really interesting space, dude, because like had something like we said, if someone had given me the jump manual, when I was 19 and it worked and I Even surpass the levels of athleticism that I, you know, I wouldn't never been like, you know what, I like teach that to the masses.

You know what I mean?

Never, never really crossed my mind.

You know, I mean, and we're in the struggle space.

You're in this space with like, you know, I had to decide that.

That was my struggle, you know, but I could have just said there was a lot of things that I decided, that's not my struggle.

And so, I don't understand.

And you probably do being, you know, more of a life coach.

Like what?

Things qualified to be your struggle like what are you going to wrestle with?

And you know, you got to choose them because when you're there it's like you gotta something in.

You has to say that struggle, there's a light at the end of that tunnel.

There's not at the end of that one, you know?

And so struggle is almost stupidity.

You know what I mean?

It's almost stupidity because I had times where, like, my brother was like, yo, bro, what are you doing?

You like you're not not ever.

He can dunk, you know, not everybody can do this.

Like, what are you doing?

Just give it up like, you're just gonna.

You're just not going to happen and you're just going to be wasting your time and you're going to disappoint yourself and so struggles.

Yeah.

Ryan has proposed that struggles that placed.

It's almost failure.

It's almost too pretty.

It's almost waist.

It's almost disappointment and like I still don't understand it.

But you know somebody who struggles Oh, man, I'm taking notes here, brother cuz it's there's just there's so many applicable lessons here.

You're right, you're right.

That struggle, is it can be failure, it can be waste, that can be disappointment, and sometimes it will be.

And each one of us has to choose like what am I willing to struggle for?

What am I willing to risk?

If I go down this path and it doesn't work out, am I still going to be okay?

That I went down that path and then is there is there a potential reward?

That's worth the struggle.

This grind.

Am I willing to maybe I always called the exchange rate.

There's an exchange rate on everything right.

Yeah well yeah ask me in time or effort or resources or whatever.

What if I say yes to this I'm saying no to something else automatically.

But is it worth it going down?

This road.

Yeah, and man, that's that's a game changer in life.

Yeah so cool.

It is interesting.

Yeah.

Oh man Jake this is so cool man.

Thank you, thank you for sharing all this.

So awesome.

Any any any last thoughts, anything else that you just kind of big takeaways from from your experience in business life and vesting, jumping, anything else you want to do is share this has been been valuable to you, you know, it's thing to change so much.

This is 2006 when I started doing this.

You know, we're 2022.

Everybody's a content creator.

All the things that I struggled to make happen.

You can do at the push of a button now, you know what I mean?

Like whether it's a website or a strategy, all the technical strategies which at the time like I used to teach him like I got through it now and like there's a product for that.

It's all easy.

Like so I think, you know what qualifies us now is to just be connected to our purpose and You connected to our struggle and to have chosen our struggle, you know?

And so, you know, I'm in New iterations of myself too.

And so you just got to realize that like things have changed.

The game does change things that made me someone who understood things.

Then, you know, if I want to be 60 years old and and still on my Edge, I've got to, I've got to let go of all those things that once made me someone who knew what I was, I was doing and be ready to just let my passion and my grind carve out, you know, who I've become so so good, right there.

The things that they got us to where we are.

You may have to let go of some of those things and lean into the things that will get you where you want to go.

And then you're so right, the game changes, especially right now.

Yeah, there's never been a time in the history of the world where things changed so rapidly.

Yeah.

Your Technologies coming out all the time and so as the game changes you must change or you're going to get left behind.

Yeah, I mean there's it's changed a lot and you're right.

It changes like at the so quickly like detect the technologies that would that I used to do the things I did then.

A completely different, so much easier.

And now the struggles that people are doing now, they're different and, you know, the things that we're trying to orchestrate they're different.

They're on a different planet Earth.

All the stuff that was then, it's just everywhere.

Now, it's easy, everybody knows how to do it.

Everyone knows how to be a content creator, what he knows how to do a website for most don't do a launch, you know, those are things back in the day, it was like, it wasn't a lot of ways to do it, right?

And there was a, now you got two options for every single thing that was It's like, oh yeah, so you got a really.

Yeah, gotta keep, we have to keep leveling up.

Keep keep staying hungry, man.

I think just keep falling.

The formulae gave us and just look at each part of your life.

They're like that.

Like that vent that Venn diagram man and the formula just like you said is figure it out.

Like if whatever it is, we want in life man.

Figure out the formula and want it.

That's my big takeaway from today.

Want it with such intensity.

Have your mojo and reach for that thing.

Just reach figure out the formula and you know and the price that you got it and your mojo.

Yeah.

And if we just helped I've trained field like men you got like I would get fired up.

I'd scream I slap myself like because I knew today I got to hit that intensity level or there's no there's no games.

And so I think you're Riker, I got two kids, you gotta approach your day, like you approach that jump, you know, and you got to have your goals, just Out Of Reach, you got to have it Out Of Reach and then that day, if you're going to get, if you're going to get off the treadmill, you gotta run.

You got to hit it a little bit harder and I think you're writing in that is, I think the takeaway so awesome.

Thank you, brother.

Thanks for being here.

Yeah, thanks Greg.

Take care of you.