The Audience-First Content Revolution with Chris Ruggiero

Chris Stone [00:00:01]:
But ladies and gentlemen, we are pumped to welcome Chris Ruggiero to the show today. This guy has spent years on stage before jumping behind the camera, and that theater background completely flipped how he approaches content. Chris has been all over the map helping brands all throughout the country turn one off viewers into actual fans through his work at Electric Creative and his Between Dreams projects. What makes him different is that rare mix of knowing both the tech side and while never forgetting it's real humans watching on the other end, something most of us marketers honestly struggle with. So ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Dealcasters, the one and the only Chris Ruggiero. How are you, man?

Chris Ruggiero [00:00:44]:
Where's my applause button? I gotta find the applause button. Oh, there it is. I was looking on my buttons here.

Chris Stone [00:00:49]:
Where where our friend, Florence, is chiming in from, from YouTube. She says hello. Hello. So that's there you go. That's that's our that's our applause. So,

Chris Ruggiero [00:00:57]:
so Florence

Chris Stone [00:00:57]:
is is chiming in. Chris, man, I'm super stoked about this. You and I, met a a little bit ago because I actually hired you. So one of the best decisions I made. A lot of people, when they go to create content, especially solopreneurs, entrepreneurs, they even ones that know how to do stuff, don't really, you know, look and invest in someone to take that vision to the next level. And, I Chris, our guest here, created videos for me, for my business at Cast Ahead, and I needed what was, you know, kinda client testimonials. Right? But I client testimonials can be kinda boring. Right? I mean, if you if they they just have to be done the right way.

Chris Stone [00:01:46]:
So I kinda had a vision for what I wanted. And I don't know. It was May it was half baked. Let's let's be honest. And, I, I I got a a referral to you, Chris. And, I mean, honestly, I I you just knocked it out of the park because I think I had a vision for it, and and it was it was plussed up so much by that. And, first of all, I just wanna start off just saying thank you for, for that. And, thank you for for, and I know you're an incredibly busy person, for doing that.

Chris Stone [00:02:22]:
So I wanted I wanted to set this this off like that. But, you know, before we we we get into, like, the origin story and where you were beforehand, I mean, you know, the you were on stage. There's there's a ton of video out you of of you on, you know, major television, James Corden, Ellen DeGeneres, Martha Stewart. What did you learn from, being on the stage on the other side of the camera? Because I think a lot of content creators, they've only been on this side. They're only creating stuff for themselves, right, or stuff for other people, but they'd never been on that side side of the camera as a creative, as a musician, as a performer, as that. What were what maybe are some some things that you learned along the way?

Chris Ruggiero [00:03:11]:
Yeah. Well, thanks thanks for having me. That was a great intro. That was there was all of the things. That was amazing. Yeah. I mean, jumping right into it. So I don't know if you actually said why I was on those shows and what I was doing, but most people wouldn't guess.

Chris Ruggiero [00:03:29]:
It's because I was doing juggling tricks, which is a very funny way to get on TV. But I think it's ties exactly into what you said in that I needed to really come up with a way for people to care about juggling. Because juggling is a type of thing that is like a cool, like, silly trick that your dad or your uncle kind of does for you at a, you know, at a park at an event or at the family picnic or something. But what I learned in that was I need to really think about how can I make this about the audience? And everyone says that, oh, think about the audience. And often we think about that as the person at home sitting on the couch watching the TV or watching their phone or whatever it is. Right. But the thing that I think that was the key for me to kind of, like, unlock some of those opportunities was remembering that the audience is, you know, on a television show. The audience certainly is the people at home.

Chris Ruggiero [00:04:38]:
But before you get in front of those cameras, the audience is the producers of the show. Or in a lot of the audience from this, show will be, you know, the audience isn't who is going to at the the at the end of making the content, who's gonna watch it. A lot of the times, the audience is the client or who you're selling to. So you need to think about too. I think that was really helpful for me to think about, like, it doesn't matter how cool of a trick I'm gonna do or how tall my unicycle is that I'm gonna be balanced on. And because the end audience will might love that, but I needed to come up with ways to kind of, like, for lack of better words, convince the producers to even give me that chance. And I could go into some great stories about how how long it took and how much, you know, how much I had to craft those, you know, proposals and submissions to talk to, you know, producers of such, you know, The Ellen Show, which is brewing right there, and James Corden, you know, literally years of crafting those things that I kind of presented to them Mhmm. So that they would let me be on screen for, you know, forty seconds.

Chris Ruggiero [00:05:53]:
And I think that so to bridge that gap is same thing. A lot of creators and podcasters, content creators have these amazing ideas. Like, they have their big circus trick, what whatever their circus trick is, probably not googling and unicycling, but making cool content, making whatever it is. And they feel like they haven't gotten their chance to show it to the world. And from my experience, when I've talked to people, they kind of keep just trying to do more and kind of keep hammering, you know, next to the nail is a good way of thinking about that. You're like, I keep hitting it really hard. It's like, well, it doesn't matter how hard you're swinging the hammer if you're swinging it next to the nail and not hitting it. So just adapting that so that you can create something you know, you have to get creative so that you can figure out how to get your chance.

Chris Ruggiero [00:06:48]:
So I think that, you know, that's a maybe a little bit different than what we initially were jumping into on the idea of this, but I think that's a it's an interesting way to think about it for for for content creators, especially. Like, most people that most people are really good at things, and most people don't get those opportunities to show that off. And they're kind of swinging the bat or swinging the hammer just ever so slightly off. So that fix that one degree thing so that you get into the right conversations to be able to show off what you do and get the gig or get the impress the client or whatever it is that we're trying to do.

Chris Stone [00:07:29]:
Wow. So yeah. I mean, we're getting into some tactical stuff, which I, you know, I I can nerd out with you for hours about. And I I love that you that you went there because, you know, there's a part of me I have no understanding of how someone pitches to beyond some of these shows. Right? And how to you know, I'm I'm thinking, well, somebody has some sort of agent and they, you know, these they, you

Chris Ruggiero [00:07:52]:
know, hey. I have a guy,

Chris Stone [00:07:54]:
you know, and it's just like this this thing that, you know, I have no idea how that would happen. But I I you know, having that understanding like you're talking about, do you think it's changed the you know, now content creation, even five years ago, has has completely, you know, gone in a you know, especially the word influencer. Right? Or anybody with a phone can be, you know, some sort of influencer and get on TikTok and Amazon and do all of these things. Do you think that whole mentality of of that audience is is changing a little bit because, you know, you you are speaking to potentially millions of people anytime that you're doing something, anytime that you you you're doing that. Do or are people just not they just for some reason, they they have a they have a speed bump in terms of treating it differently like you're talking about. Like, this isn't just the the moment that you're on Ellen. Right? This is an opportunity for you to speak to more people and get hired or or or or do that.

Chris Ruggiero [00:08:56]:
Yeah. A lot's in there. I think things absolutely change, and they're changing faster than I often faster than I would like. And, I think for a lot of us, especially when we're kind of gear people, like a lot of us are, it's awesome and frustrating at the same time because, like, gear is awesome, but then you buy something and, you know, six months later, it's everything out is new. Right. But I think at the end of the day, attention is what we are trading and selling, and and buying often. So attention will never change. Attention will be paid by audiences.

Chris Ruggiero [00:09:38]:
Paying attention to something is what you care about. And I think that's just our job if we're creating content is to be rigid enough in our, like, approach and principles of how we do it and why we do it, but adaptable enough that we don't get locked into one idea. You know? And I'm talking about this right now with some people about the podcast bubble in itself, and this might offend a lot of people in our circles, but, you know, it's like the podcast bub you know, it's has to change soon. There can't be more years of more people just making podcasts that look and feel the same. Like, the audience will, the audience has always in every media, every type of media gotten bored with it, and then creative people created something new. You know, it started with, you know, live entertainment, my world, like vaudeville performers. Not that it started with that, but, you know, going back at least a hundred years, people doing tricks on stage and comedy and and dancing and music. And then, you know, radio, you know, radio comes along and and then, you know, throughout the whole thing, I don't whatever the order is, you know, radio and then TV and then, okay, vaudeville, you know, my world of juggling kind of, like, went away for the most part.

Chris Ruggiero [00:11:09]:
And then it, like, comes back and evolves. But no matter what, people getting on stage, whether that's in person or on a camera and a screen, and creating something that's often, oh, I would say this as an extreme, always entertaining, often educational, and also equally often inspiring. Mhmm. Those are things that will never go away. Like, people will always want to smile and laugh or think about something. They always will need to learn something. And human nature is most people, like, want to watch something that's uplifting and inspiring.

Chris Stone [00:11:53]:
Yeah.

Chris Ruggiero [00:11:54]:
I just try to stay away from the controversial. The controversial stuff is Yeah. The surefire way to go viral, but in a way that's not useful to to anyone here. So I've just stayed because I've never really had a viral hit in any way. You know? Like, the Ellen appearance maybe was like a thing. But even that, it wasn't like, oh, wow. I'm in the world. You know? It was like a fast burning, but and that was useful to me, but I kind of subscribe a little bit more to the Seth Godin kind of mindset.

Chris Ruggiero [00:12:26]:
He's and he he says this. He's like, zero of my blog posts that he's written every day for however many years, fifteen years or something, he's like, by design, zero of my blog posts have ever gone viral. And that's not the point for him to blow up. It's this collection and the and the consistency of showing up every day. The one thing I wanted to lay out for people to look up if they want the the mere exposure effect, m e r e exposure effect, just simply says people often like things that they're familiar with and that they've seen a lot. And we've seen this with every big major company, like the question of the classic question of, like, if Coca Cola makes, you know, whatever billions of dollars a year, why do they need to advertise on billboards and on Super Bowl ads and everything else? And because they're already selling a bunch of Coca Cola, but that's because of the mere exposure effect because you if you continuously see it, you know, why is Red Bull if you say energy drink equals Red Bull because they're the most visible and people that don't even lie like, I don't drink Red Bull, but I'm like, they're cool. I'm like, I have this initial thing of like, oh, Red Bull is cool. So going back to your original thing of, like, is stuff evolving and changing? Yes.

Chris Ruggiero [00:13:46]:
But the mere exposure effect us being visible and showing up so that people like us by by by nature of if we show up consistently enough and we're not, like, being idiots or being too, like, controversial, just show up every day and people will begin to like you. And that was, you know, going back to I'll I'll I'll add that to the, since we started with the talking about Ellen appearance, I didn't have an agent, and I didn't have a way in. But on at the time, on Ellen's TV show website, it was like, do you know somebody who does something cool that you could that you would want to see on the show? And I was like, I know how to do something cool. So let me submit myself. And I did that, and I just submitted. And it was funny because at the time, there was this was, you know, ten years ago. At the time, there wasn't really a mechanism for adding, like, links to submit that. You know, now it seems crazy.

Chris Ruggiero [00:14:49]:
You should post a link to, like, a YouTube video. Sure. But at the time, I was, like, uploading the video, like, to their site. And, you know, it just at home. And, again, it was, like, it wasn't fast Internet, and it would, like it failed, like, four times in a row. And I was like, oh my goodness. This is horrible. But I just kept uploading until finally it worked.

Chris Ruggiero [00:15:09]:
And then, basically, immediately, one of the producers called and was like, hey, I saw this video. I was like juggling on a unicycle in my backyard. And they were like, this is cool. And, they were like, we'll we'll we'll be in touch. You know? And, the the cycle continued where they were they basically called back the next week. They're like, can you come to LA next week? At the time, I was living in Pennsylvania. Like, can you come to LA next week? And I was like, yeah. Absolutely.

Chris Ruggiero [00:15:36]:
And and they're like, oh, we'll call you next week and, like, with details, and then you just never hear anything back. And then they go on, like, break from the summer. And then, like, a year later, they, like, called. They're like, hey. We were still, like that you're still on this list of people that we think that we would want to use use.

Chris Stone [00:15:53]:
I haven't slept since then, so thanks for

Chris Ruggiero [00:15:55]:
being here.

Chris Stone [00:15:55]:
I didn't wait until

Jim Fuhs [00:15:56]:
I was sleeping at the airport waiting

Chris Ruggiero [00:15:58]:
to get

Chris Stone [00:15:58]:
on Thursday.

Chris Ruggiero [00:15:59]:
On Thursday, you were gonna call me in March. So and that and that kind of happened to of to skip the, you know, the details, that kind of happened for a couple years. And throughout all of those years, what I was doing because then at that point, I had their email, you know, so I had it direct, and I didn't have to wait on the, slow Internet and upload videos. By that time, I had their email. So in between all of those times when they were like, hey. You're still on a list. You know, you're still on our desk. We haven't thrown your, you know, headshot away yet.

Chris Ruggiero [00:16:36]:
What I would do is just every couple month every month or every couple months, if I had a new idea, I'd send it to them, of me just in the backyard with a video. Like, hey. What about this? You know, like, again, balancing on a unicycle while juggling, standing on a ball while unicycling, you know, like fire or not fire. Because sometimes that's another good point of you think like, oh, the biggest, most impressive thing that I can do. And this happened to me a lot in my in my, like, entertainment world of, like, adding fire and adding, like, a bunch of height by being on a tall unicycle would often scare people away. They're like, we don't know if we're gonna be allowed to do fire. We don't know if there's gonna be, like, a chandelier over the stage. So, again, thinking back to audience, yeah, what you're gonna do might be an epic trick or or, you know, in content thing, like, oh, we're gonna bring cinema cameras, and we're gonna have all this production, like, things that content creators think is cool.

Chris Ruggiero [00:17:32]:
You might be actually scaring your clients away because they're like, woah, that sounds like a little bit much, and we're actually scared away. So really going back to that, thinking about who the actual audience is and often, you know, it very there's a lot of clients in content world that might say, I feel more comfortable if you show up with, like, a ring light from Amazon and your iPhone and film me that way rather than, like, fill in, like, cinema cameras and stuff because a lot of these clients that people like us get hired to help have never been on camera before. Yeah. So, like, at that point, they are our audience, and we're serving them. And, you know, camera people are notorious for wanting to buy and then show off all the fancy Oh, yeah. Junk that they buy, spend a bunch of money on. And that's me included.

Chris Stone [00:18:25]:
Right.

Chris Ruggiero [00:18:26]:
And something that so this is going a few a few different tangents, but I think it's it's good to think about is in that audience centric mindset, thinking about the person on camera, if if if we are content creators or people that are hired to help clients create content, is how do we make them they're they're our audience at that moment. We need to make them feel comfortable and so that they can present their best ideas in a way that is effective. So that might mean smaller cameras, like the cameras further away from them or, you know, there's a million little tricks that we can do. But it goes back to what I learned from, you know, doing things like The Ellen Show, and and I'll add this because it stacks on top of it, is, James Corden Show. Their segment was supposed to look like they just found people that could do cool tricks, and they didn't want it to look like they hired professional entertainers to come in. The point was like, oh, like, well, this guy can do some crazy stuff.

Chris Stone [00:19:29]:
Right.

Chris Ruggiero [00:19:29]:
So when I was sending so that was the same thing. The, that that took about a year of sending ideas to them before we landed on something that was appropriate to them. And the thing with them was it looked like I was using juggling props. So I kept being like, oh, I've got these, like, cool juggling props that I spent money, and they're polished and shiny, and and it's this cool new trick that I, you know, learned and developed. And they were like, yeah. That's cool, but it looks like we would have just hired a professional juggler to come and do this trick. So what I was doing in my living room, I was living in LA at that time. What I started doing was just going around the house and finding whatever I could find.

Chris Ruggiero [00:20:13]:
You know, I was like, okay. Here's a pillow. I can, like, spin a pillow on my finger, and, you know, maybe I can add that or, like, balance on top of something and spin this pillow, or I can flip these bottles. And so that turned into my audience wasn't to the people watching at home anyway. I wasn't impressing them just yet. Who I had to impress first was the Booker, and he told me luckily, he told me exactly what he needed. And I think that's a that's a, you know, bookmark this moment. Everyone that we work with and interact with tells us exactly what they want, sometimes not as easily and clearly as we would want them.

Chris Ruggiero [00:20:53]:
He did me a favor, and he was like he didn't just say, like, no. That doesn't work for us. He was like, no. That doesn't work for us because it looks like you're a professional entertainer that we hired, and we want it to look like we found a guy in the audience. But I think everyone, you know, if we're aware enough to shut up long enough to listen and ask questions Yeah. Our audience and in this situation, you know, clients that we might want to book us, they will probably tell us what they want. And, again, I'll include myself in this. Often, we are too busy trying to, you know, sell that we've got a cool new, like, cinema lens or a new light that we want to use because we just spent $3,000 on it.

Chris Ruggiero [00:21:42]:
So we're like, oh, we can set up this big, big light. And it's like, okay. Cool. I don't want a big light. But we didn't listen to them long enough to, do that. And the and the final part before just to wrap that in, I I'm a big fan this might be controversial as well, but, currently a big fan of Alex Hormozi, content about just making stuff happen. It's like, he says, if you're selling, like, stay do the thing, whatever your sales thing is, and then shut up. Because so many people start to lose the sale.

Chris Ruggiero [00:22:16]:
Somebody was like, yeah. Cool. And then you're like, oh, yeah. So and then also we can bring this, and then we'll we'll add this in. And then you just, like, they're like, no. We don't want all that. And now we're actually not sure what we want because we were happy with just, you know, whatever it was. So so, again, I think both of those things, I wanted to add that onto the end of it was another Yeah.

Chris Ruggiero [00:22:34]:
It was another shut up and let them talk moment for that. That's maybe that's what this episode should have been. Shut up.

Chris Stone [00:22:41]:
Yeah. Exactly. It's I mean, it's sales one zero one. You know? A lot of the clients, you know, the and we work together with a lot of those clients. They're sales. They're they're sales, trainers, and that is rule number one is shut up and listen.

Chris Ruggiero [00:22:58]:
Yeah. You know?

Chris Stone [00:22:59]:
And and some of them may even have this little trick where they bite their tongue. Like, they they tell themselves they literally bite their tongue because they're like, they're gonna say what they need to say, but, eventually, that person will tell you what they want. And it's our job to tell, in this case, the audience to tell to for for them to tell us what they want. And, like, when you do something on a stage, when you were performing, you will get a response. Right? You'll hear that. It it sounds like it's applause. Right? And and so, okay, this is what the audience wants. Right? And then that goes into the into the, you know, the brain, and you're just sort of like, okay, this is this is how I'm moving.

Chris Stone [00:23:41]:
I'm moving in this direction. And if you don't if someone doesn't like it, you will either not hear applause as as loud or you may hear, you know, other things that you okay. Let me, let me put that into the brain and and and figure that out. Jim, I know you had a question.

Jim Fuhs [00:23:55]:
Yeah. And and so you've got this great background, Chris. You know, you've like Chris has said, you've been on both sides of the camera. And I like how you kinda hit a little bit on what's going on or potentially going on in the world of podcasting in the future, but we hear more and more, I I think even Disney, so much emphasis on streaming in general, whether it's live or recorded streams. So based on your background, what do you see as the future of audience audience first content? And, you know, because I think all three of us are dealing that with clients. It's like, hey. Where should I either go live? Where should I put my stuff? Should I do video if I'm a podcaster? Those sort of things.

Chris Ruggiero [00:24:37]:
Yeah. Is this so to clarify, are you I have lots of thoughts, so I wanna dive in. Are is this, like, a typical client, like, a thought leader who wants to create their own podcast type? More than like a big brand.

Jim Fuhs [00:24:54]:
It's it's more, I think, of the we'll call it the small to medium sized creators that maybe they're just getting started and kinda to your

Chris Ruggiero [00:25:02]:
point,

Jim Fuhs [00:25:02]:
it was like, hey. I'm I'm not Ellen, but what should I What should I do? And, you know or they're so worried, like, oh, you know, like, do I even need to go try to get on TV anymore? Right? Because things have really changed.

Chris Ruggiero [00:25:15]:
Yeah. The answer is no, by the way. And, you know, at the time, like I said, that LMI stuff was a handful of years ago, and it certainly moved the needle. But now at this point, create your own thing for sure just to lay that out there. And I think shifting the and this is something that I'll just kind of speak from where my current thoughts are on it is I think people who are thinking about starting a podcast just need to shift a word in their brain to say that they aren't, even if they are starting a podcast. Don't think about it as like, oh, I'm a podcaster or I'm a host of a podcast because it has certain implications of, like, a couple guys sitting around a microphone, which again is fine Yep. For a certain world. I mean, this is what we're doing right now.

Chris Ruggiero [00:26:08]:
But I I'm trying to shift that word instead of podcast to show. Yeah. Because show allows it to be a lot more than what peep and, again, it doesn't matter what it's called. I know that. We'll we'll just say that. It literally doesn't matter what it's called, but just in your mind, I'm the host of a show or I'm creating a show. And that allows a lot more, you know, because a TV show, yeah, it can be a talk show with a person sitting on a couch, or it can be a National Geographic travel adventure where, you know, it's out in Antarctica. And it doesn't need to be a production.

Chris Ruggiero [00:26:48]:
It could still be on your phone going and exploring. So I think that's where I'm excited about the as I said at the beginning, this podcast bubble is probably, you know, seen its peak or very close to its peak. And I think creators are going to have to get creative about not sitting around a table on a microphone, but getting out into the world. And, you know, if you do you have, like, a you don't have to, like, call someone by name, but do you have, like, a specific thought leader or a person's, like, industry or something even, and we could do it, maybe, like, come up with an idea on the fly?

Jim Fuhs [00:27:29]:
Yeah. Let's,

Chris Ruggiero [00:27:30]:
let's go with yeah.

Jim Fuhs [00:27:32]:
No. Let's go with, as an example, realtors. Right?

Chris Ruggiero [00:27:36]:
Sure. Because I mean yeah.

Jim Fuhs [00:27:37]:
Because that industry needs to change, and I think there's a few that are trying to do that.

Chris Ruggiero [00:27:43]:
Yeah. And I mean, this is certainly not a new idea, but I'll just lean into it because, you know, and I open up Instagram and TikTok and you see realtors all the time and they're like sitting on a couch talking about mortgage rates or something. And that's cool. And it's, you know, certainly useful, like, knowledge because somebody told them, like, oh, educate your audience about what it is. And I mean and again, this is certainly not new, but just to, like, get to thinking, it doesn't need to be brand new or super clever or creative, but say a a a realtor or a real estate agent in Atlanta, you know, your options are you can do, you know, post photos of you in a fancy outfit, which is what 90% of them do. You can the the rest of the, like, 9% make a podcast where they're sitting on a couch talking about mortgage rates. And I think the 1% have a show. You know? So, okay, we I'm a real estate agent in Atlanta.

Chris Ruggiero [00:28:43]:
Why aren't I going out and just making a show about how amazing Atlanta is? Hey. I'm gonna if you love food, it doesn't matter. If you're a real estate agent and you love food, be like, hey. Every day or, like, coffee. Every, hey. I'm a real estate agent in Atlanta. I sell houses in Atlanta because I love this city. Every day, I take you to a coffee shop that I absolutely love, and I hope you move here.

Chris Ruggiero [00:29:11]:
And when you do, I'll help you buy a house. And every day, you review a coffee shop. And if, you know, boom, right there, you have everyday content and it's on your phone and it costs you $6 a day to go buy that coffee, and post that, you know, it ends or it's live streamed or whatever it is. Or, like, if you like you know, again, if you if your realtors, that's an easy one. I I appreciate you giving me that layup because realtors are such an easy one. Because you're just like, hey. I want people to buy a house in this town. So So you just, like, show why this town is awesome.

Chris Ruggiero [00:29:48]:
And, like, just go outside and walk three blocks in any direction in Atlanta. You're like, oh, there's great stuff here. You know, I love hiking. Okay. Go on a hike every day. I love, you know, fancy restaurants. Okay. Go to a fancy restaurant.

Chris Ruggiero [00:30:01]:
You know, and this is every city, like, has any of that. So yeah. So I think going back to show, create a show around what you like. It doesn't and you realtors don't like mortgage rates. Like, why

Jim Fuhs [00:30:13]:
Imagine, Chris, if local government took some of these ideas to show Mhmm. Their community.

Chris Ruggiero [00:30:20]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:30:22]:
Well, and I think the key here in in is okay. First of all, like, too many people are are locked, like you said, Chris, in I'm this. This is what I want to promote. So I'm doing a show talking about this that I'm trying to promote. And it's it's and and if you're thinking about your audience, you wanna be likable so that they can buy your house or that they can vote for you or whatever we're talking about for, in in this instance. There's one thing that you kinda drove by a a little bit, and you said something that you like, something that you're passionate about. Because I think too many times when you're working with with with someone, a client, and you're onboarding them and you're trying to, you know, you're you're consulting them to create show or create a content, create podcasts, whatever, they just they don't like it. Right? They they just they and and no one wants to listen or watch someone who's doing something they don't like.

Chris Stone [00:31:21]:
And so Yeah. You know, one of the shows that I produce is called Lancaster Connects, and it's based out of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And it's two guys that own a mattress store. And they do they broadcast the store out of this they broadcast the show out of the store, And the whole show is on Lancaster, Pennsylvania, small businesses, nonprofits, and charities, and how they are giving back to the community.

Chris Ruggiero [00:31:50]:
That's it.

Chris Stone [00:31:51]:
And and where do you think people go to buy mattresses in Central Pennsylvania? Yeah. You know? They don't have to say, here, we're having this sale, and you can get this for $3.09 like, the like, don't do that. People aren't gonna tune in for that. People are gonna tune in for the feel good, hey, you know, this is this, non share this nonprofit works with homeless people. And here's how you can get involved in the community with this and this and this and this. It becomes a source for people. And I love I love that you that you went there, and and and we're doing this live consulting right here, Jim. Are you are you a real estate, agent now or something? What's, now? No.

Chris Stone [00:32:30]:
I I I've worked with a realtor.

Chris Ruggiero [00:32:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we'll circle we keep circling back to the mere exposure effect. Like, those guys don't need to sell mattresses. They need to show up and be a part of the community. Just like, you know, Coca Cola doesn't need to sell Coca Cola. They just need to show up and make cool, you know, pleasant content. Red Bull is another one.

Chris Ruggiero [00:32:54]:
You know, like, Red Bull doesn't Red Bull is an interesting, and I think this is a circles back nicely to that. If you look on Red Bull's Instagram, you won't really see any product. You won't see a cool product video of a can pouring with a three sixty camera around it. Like, you just won't see that. But they are you say Red Bull or you say energy drink and people say equals Red Bull. But what you do see is you know, and again, I say that, but there's cans of people drinking. But they're always doing you know, it's like they're drinking it because they're jumping out of an airplane while they're doing it. There's never, like, a product video.

Chris Ruggiero [00:33:34]:
It's like a product attached to somebody doing something epic. Mhmm. Right. So, again, that goes back to, yeah, maybe on the morning coffee, you hint in, like, hey, here's a place. And at the the each each morning coffee ends with, you know, add the add the Red Bull can if you need to sell the Red Bull can. And, hey, today's you know, this week, mortgage rates went down, you know, 1%, whatever, 1%. So, you know, it's not just so going back to what I said initially of, like, what won't change is entertainment, education, and inspiration. So, like, hit them with entertainment.

Chris Ruggiero [00:34:14]:
Oh, people that love coffee, AKA everyone who lives in a city is like, no. This is awesome. They show me cool coffee places. Oh, and it was pretty cool. In the last ten seconds, they told me, like, something that I needed to know about this week's mortgage rates or how to get a preapproval or whatever that realtors talk about. And instead of starting with that, like, hey, today, we're going to talk about mortgage rates this week because, like, we don't care. But, hey, this week, I'm gonna show you my favorite coffee shop of the day. So lead with entertainment and then, you know, give them show the Coca Cola can or the Red Bull can if you need to, AKA what the thing is that you're selling, but just keep showing up.

Chris Ruggiero [00:34:57]:
I love that. Yeah. I love that.

Chris Stone [00:35:01]:
Yeah. We've got, like, Florence is chiming in, over on YouTube. She loves it. The fancy junk that we buy, and the tip the tip on something you like is gold, and it becomes human connection. And I think this is the thing that, again, I mean, you you breezed by the gold here, Chris. We gotta, so it's my job to to take you back Bring

Chris Ruggiero [00:35:22]:
me back in. Bring me back in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:35:24]:
Yeah. Entertainment, education. Right? Like, when too many people look at creating content and they want to find what worked. Right? Okay. Success leaves clues. I understand that. But, like, oh, Alex Hormozi did this. Right? So I'm gonna do this.

Chris Stone [00:35:48]:
Or, you know, Gary V says that you need to do x amount of TikToks a day. And, this person told me this and this person told me this. And they're looking for these kind of frameworks to to create content. And they forget that the the the real roots of that that creates all of these things is education and entertaining. Nobody want the number one rule in podcasting folks, never be boring. Like, don't be boring. If, like, if if Jim and I get boring, like, the show's over. You know? Like, this is why we bring people like Chris on the show, because we know you're not gonna get bored.

Chris Stone [00:36:30]:
And if and if the show is for you, you're gonna get you're gonna get educated. You're gonna you're gonna stay because you're entertained. And, you know, we're not we don't we don't bat a thousand on this thing, but it's so important. And it not just podcasting. Right, Chris? So when you go to work with somebody, and, you know, talk to me about, like, if somebody if somebody is hiring you to do, like, hey. I just want stuff for my social media and on my website, and, you know, they may have a budget of x. How do you how do you frame out a day or two or however many days when you're working with a client? I mean, it could be anybody from a let let's let's choose somebody that's more corporate. Right? Not on camera a lot.

Chris Stone [00:37:19]:
And they're you're you're going by their office or may and and then they're like, what can you do with this? How does that, how does that look like for

Chris Ruggiero [00:37:28]:
you? Yeah. I'm trying to think of a good example and a real life one to give you. So. And I will be honest and say that I've been lucky that most of the clients that I've worked with, maybe this is not lucky and is I've crafted a a way to attract them, is that they are and maybe my, like, my ideal client right now is somebody who is a kind of a thought leader already in a space, and they want to do content. And I'm not really currently trying to convince anyone to do content. And and again, that's just maybe a partially luck and partially that I've crafted a way that that's They just don't have the time. Yeah. They just don't have the time

Chris Stone [00:38:18]:
to do it. They need they need someone like you.

Chris Ruggiero [00:38:20]:
Yeah. So, you know, one of my favorite, clients I've worked with a few times in the past year or so, Bob Goff, he's like a New York times bestselling author and speaker. So he's not exactly the, oh, you can hear the sirens. Come move to Atlanta, everyone. There's sirens here.

Jim Fuhs [00:38:42]:
It's a parade.

Chris Ruggiero [00:38:44]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. There you go. You'd be a good realtor. You'd be like, yeah. That's great. You have a parade every day. You like fire trucks? Moved to Midtown Atlanta.

Chris Ruggiero [00:38:56]:
Bob Goff is a, like, a four time New York Times best selling author or something. So not exactly of somebody who is like, oh, I've never made content before. But I'll give him as an example because I think it's a good example if you are somebody or working with somebody who isn't used to it, because he has a good model of how he creates content because he's a tremendously busy person, and he doesn't even know. He'll he'll even say he doesn't know, like, past tomorrow. He has, yeah, there's Bob. And, you know, he's he's an amazing person, and he really just has this approach to his life that's it's it's great. So if you guys aren't familiar with him. And and we make a good part of his Instagram content.

Chris Ruggiero [00:39:46]:
He has, like, different layers of content. Some of it's, like, bigger production. But right now, we're kind of doing it with Electric Creative, and I typically lead the, that that project. And the last time I was out there at his, he owns a, like, a resort center, and he was teaching a workshop, and people were arriving in the afternoon for the first day of the workshop. So he was like, let's film in the morning. We'll go to the winer the vineyard at the, resort area, and then we'll go to the farm because there's horses there. And then we'll come back inside and do sit down, just like address the camera with topics. So the approach to that was, again, going back to what he likes, he likes hanging out at his, like, resort center that he teaches courses at.

Chris Ruggiero [00:40:36]:
He loves that he was able to learn how to build a vineyard and grow a vineyard. So he talked about his life lessons in that. He loves there's these special therapy horses that live there at the farm, so he wanted to talk about those. And then what he has is a notebook full of ideas, then he just has ideas throughout whenever he jots down, like, just a one or two sentence or one or two word idea, then he'll remember what it like, that's the punch line, and he'll remember what it was about. So then when we sit down, he just goes through all of his ideas and tells a little story. And these are, like, one minute social media clips. So, again, I think that's what it is is going if a client was like, I just don't know. Yeah.

Chris Ruggiero [00:41:23]:
That so that's the vineyard, that you're seeing on screen. So that's me just holding the camera. And I don't know what he's gonna say. He's just like, oh, I got one.

Chris Stone [00:41:32]:
And he's super passionate. You could tell. I'm I we don't have the audio for, you know, for, you know, various reasons, but you can tell he loves what he's talking about.

Chris Ruggiero [00:41:42]:
He can't make that up. And that was just on the fly. Like, I don't know if you can see the views there, but, like, his every post that he makes gets, you know, 50,000 plays, a hundred thousand plays, and he's scrolling the comments there, like, tons of engagement. Yeah. Most of those all of those things that you're seeing there are stuff that or most of them have things that I've filmed that and most of them yeah. There's the horses that we see. So we're out at the the farm now, and I think that one did really well, because everyone, you know, put a horse. If you don't know what to do, put a horse in your Instagram, and it'll do really well.

Chris Ruggiero [00:42:17]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, again, so so to to bring this all back to where we're at is he'll he did what he enjoyed. So, again, I love that that resonated. It's like, if you love coffee, go talk about coffee all day and then spin in what you do, whether you're a realtor or a author or a podcast host or whatever it is. Bob was, like, super passionate that he was able to learn how to grow a vineyard, so he wanted to create content in his vineyard. He loves his farm and his horses, so he's talked about his horses.

Chris Ruggiero [00:42:46]:
And then what we picked up to fill in the gaps, because after talking about vineyards and horses, we run out of stuff. So then he went back to his notebook, and then, that day, the guests were arriving at that workshop that he was teaching at, like, one or 2PM. We filmed the vineyard, the farm, and then inside, like, the little living room set there. And we got, I think, 65 clips that day. Jeez. So if you think about and that was and then that was before his day start you know, that was before lunch break because he then went and ate lunch and then taught a workshop that day. You know, it's amazing. But, anyway, so, like, the thing the the the biggest excuse, I think, is people are like, I don't have time to do that.

Chris Ruggiero [00:43:28]:
But before lunch one morning, he got you know, assume that he's gonna post every day every weekday for there's 20 weekdays in a month about. So before lunch one day, he got three months of Instagram posts for posting every single weekday. And then he can still talk to his phone to supplement that so he actually can extend that, even longer. Wow. So that's the approach that I would think about if you are, you know, just a tactical thing. And it's the same as, you know, everyone's like, oh, batch content. You can do it once a month. But I think that was really cool because we didn't just sit down and have to talk for, you know, 60 clips.

Chris Ruggiero [00:44:12]:
We went out to the Vineyard. We went out to the the suite and and and it made it a lot easier because it didn't feel like we did that much because, you know, okay. There's, like, five little ideas about, like, oh, what you know, a storm came, and what did I learn about the vineyard because of a storm? And then, oh, it took way longer than we thought it was going to. And, oh, I had to learn that the grapes get sour if it rains too, you know, or whatever. It's like, oh, it's just all these little things, and it's like, okay. There was, like, six topics before he ever even needed to, you know, think about what to say next. So, so again, going back to, like, the coffee or if you love hiking, be like, oh, here's, like, hiking and you can talk about, you know, infinite things about hiking. What kind of socks do you wear when you go hiking? And it's like, oh, and by the way, here's here's what the mortgage rates are today.

Chris Ruggiero [00:44:59]:
You know? Boom. There's you know, you need to do that. Oh, whatever. You know?

Chris Stone [00:45:04]:
Yeah. I you know, and the other thing too in in just hearing you talk, Chris, because it my mind's going back to when we worked together as well. And, you know, again, like, there was this great sort of, like, relationship that that was the first time we had met in person. Right? And, you know, we had had a couple virtual calls. But there was this sort of great relationship where in in my mind, you know, I was I was kind of the director, I guess, producer, whatever whatever you're you're calling it, you wanna call it. And maybe you're more of, like, the engineer. But I basically set it out beforehand. We had this I I had this concept.

Chris Stone [00:45:41]:
Right? And but even even when you have the best plan put together, like, oh, man. This is gonna be great. We we talked about it. We know it's gonna be this. I've got, you know, general questions I'm gonna be asking the client. Right? It's gonna look like this. It's gonna do things change. Right? The the do you have humans involved? Something's gonna change.

Chris Stone [00:46:02]:
Like, the the the person on that side of the camera is gonna say something different or ask questions. Or in the case of of having you there, I gave you the sort of the freedom and the autonomy to say, hey. What about this? Hey. What about this? Hey. What about this? And I'm I'm paying you to be there. And I'm like, I don't I mean, I guess that work. I mean, that and sometimes I'm like, yeah. Heck yeah.

Chris Stone [00:46:25]:
That's gonna work. I I love that idea. Other times, I'm like, let's try it. I mean, I I don't know. And those are the those are the ones that end up making things better, right, by investing in someone that can that can take you, not just make things quicker for you, right, in the cases of of the author here. You know, it it's of of Bob. But it's adding that that extra value that you can't do alone. Right? It's just you just can't do you I mean, you could try and probably be pretty good.

Chris Stone [00:47:00]:
Right? But it's like when when I when I talk to somebody about, you know, producing their podcast, you could you could do a podcast yourself. You absolutely could. And it would probably be pretty good. Right? But if you really want to be able to do the things that you're passionate about, if you're not passionate about doing podcasting, you know, and all the stuff, stuff. And I'm not talking about speaking into a microphone on a camera. I'm talking about the other stuff that has to do with podcasting that no one talks about because boring. Right? So it it's like, we handle that because that's fun for us. And that you do this stuff because you, I can tell you're super passionate about it.

Chris Stone [00:47:40]:
And I, I love the fact that you, that extra secret weapon that I think you have is that ability to pull yourself out. Right. And go, this is what I'm seeing. I, I, I see it this way. And, and leaning on your expertise and, and the history of, of, of everything that you've done to be able to take something that you thought was was gonna be great and make it even even greater. I'm not sure there was a question in there. I just wanted to say that.

Chris Ruggiero [00:48:08]:
Just to jump onto that really quickly, the idea of because going back to the the theme of audience centric, a lot of times you hear this idea of, like, oh, make sure you're creating content, like, audience centric. And I love you kind of did a perfect thing because you went you did this thing of, like, zoom up and above. Because I've always thought about this even in entertainment and in content, because people are like, oh, make it for the audience so the audience likes it. But then you still if you like, okay. I'm gonna sit in the audience's seat. It just you still have one perspective. And what we don't really ever want one perspective. You just kind of flipped it to still being one-sided.

Chris Ruggiero [00:48:50]:
So I always thought about that. No. It's bird's eye view. What we do, what I did as a juggler meant nothing. Juggling tricks meant nothing. And then also, like, sitting in the audience, like, thinking about that, that also meant nothing. What the magic happened was if I could go up above and look down is the interaction. You said that earlier too.

Chris Ruggiero [00:49:13]:
You should be aware, like, oh, are they responding to this? Do they not care about juggling tonight, and I need to just tell jokes? Maybe. Often, kind of, that's really the the reality. So and then creating the content too is, like, we kind of like, oh, be audience centric, be this. But so it's like, be bird's eye centric is maybe a better way. Look at from above, and this is a play because there's never a creator creating, and there's never an audience consuming. There's an audience and a creator interacting even if it's through a screen. So I'd encourage everyone to think about that. Don't ever think about things as one-sided or the other, or even both of them, but disconnected.

Chris Ruggiero [00:50:03]:
It's from above, how are those things playing back together. Because when those two when the creator and the audience play back together, that's interacting equals building a community. People in a community do things. They don't Yep. A community doesn't mean they're sitting somewhere alone. It means they're with people interacting. And at the end of the day, that's something that I'm kind of, like, toying with with my own, like, language and kind of, like, mission of, like, the whole point of all this is to build a community. And whatever that kind of means, it means different things now, in in our world, but it all comes back to, like, build a following, build an audience, become an influencer.

Chris Ruggiero [00:50:51]:
You're influencing other people in your community. So whatever words those are attached to, if you kind of think about it, they all flow back to building, and and and building and being part of a community.

Chris Stone [00:51:07]:
God. It's so true. And I think that's why we love to do live, videos Yeah. So much. And and number one, you get organic, you know, act action. Like, you know, we had a conversation for five minutes before we went live, folks. Jim and I have a framework that we wanna keep in the lane, and we went we went into different directions, Chris, than than I ever thought. And it it was better.

Chris Stone [00:51:32]:
We're better for it. You don't you don't sort of over plan it. And, you know, Florence is here, from equip Institute. She's, she's chiming in. Right? She's part she's part of the Dealcasters community and and the Ecamm fam and and all of that. And so that's it's important, I think, especially when you're just starting out because you feel like you're, like, you're alone. Right? You feel like you're and even if you're having a conversation with somebody on the screen, then you're taking your content and you're throwing it tossing it over the fence, and then you wait for the likes and the the dopamine and and all of this all of the things that none of that's really is real. And and the best way to do it is that bird's eye view that you're talking about is to is to think about this from, how can I how can I create something that people want to show up for with me as opposed to Yeah? Not not people showing up to watch and listen.

Chris Stone [00:52:27]:
Like, who's going to join me in in in this with I I I yeah. I mean, you're right. I think so much of it is language. Right? Not just the podcast word, you know, turning the show, and the definition of that, but, like, just so many things we have to we can't get stuck in that rut, and we have to create, you know, a place where not only you're educating and entertaining people, but a place people feel comfortable to to join you and and share, in in terms of community. Jim, I know you had a question.

Jim Fuhs [00:52:57]:
Sorry. Yeah. It it's it's a it's a little bit of a question, but also a comment. And knowing that you and Chris work together, one of the things I really feel like you did, and maybe this is something you really focus on with your clients, is that you seem and and this isn't easy. So, this is a meant as a a big compliment. You pulled Chris Stone out of his comfort zone, and that is really helping his potential audience know what he's really about that you might be maybe wouldn't have got otherwise if you had just kinda let him do his thing and, like, give him that input.

Chris Ruggiero [00:53:32]:
Yeah. I love that. I love that idea of, you know, working with other people because, yeah, people are like, oh, we'll get new perspectives. It's like, well, that also leads to exactly that. Yeah. Pulling people out of their comfort zone. And I felt that even, you know, with Electric Creative, Marybeth is the other person that works, at Electric Creative with me leading that, project. And I kind of initially had a lot of pushback because most of my life, I've done stuff myself and had my way of doing things.

Chris Ruggiero [00:54:03]:
And, that's been something for me too. I was always like, oh, no. Simplicity and, like, not not as much design elements, and that's one of the things. And and just that I've had to, like, stretch what my comfort zone is and open things up. And then she oftentimes, I'm like, no. Like, that's not right. And then, like, see the work that she does or, like, that she helps with. And I was like, oh, well, that's good.

Chris Ruggiero [00:54:25]:
I would have never thought of that. Literally, this week, launching a a client project, and she helped work on the or she didn't help work. She did the website. And I was like, wow. That was a really good idea. I would have never like, that would have never come into my world, and I would have done it a way that was simpler and worse. Not that complexity is the answer, but yeah. So that, yeah.

Chris Ruggiero [00:54:53]:
Allowing yourself to admit that you don't know how to do everything the best, even if your entire life, you've done everything yourself and you think that you're the best at it is key. Love it.

Chris Stone [00:55:06]:
Yeah. And the and the only way we're gonna get better, right, is is to challenge ourselves. I mean, you don't you know, you you if if I don't go to the gym and I start to get fluffy, you know, I gotta, you know, you gotta you gotta go and challenge your yourself. You gotta challenge your mind. You gotta you gotta do things. And a big part of that is pulling in other people to help you through, to help you through that. And that is that is why, ladies and gentlemen, you hire Chris Regerio. And you can, you could go to, ChrisRegerio.com, and, that's where we got this lovely thumbnail.

Chris Stone [00:55:41]:
This image here is pretty strong, dude, with the arrow on on the shoulder, pretty amazing.

Chris Ruggiero [00:55:46]:
Mary Beth took that photo, so there's another shout out to Mary Beth.

Chris Stone [00:55:49]:
Yeah. That's a that's a that's a good looking man right there. So chrisregerio.com/1-1 if you want to pick the brain of the man, that we have on our screen. And, of course, you know, we didn't even get into this, and we're we're at time. And and maybe I I do wanna highlight this because I think it's fantastic project that you you've got, but between dreams is is another thing that you do. We can't touch on all 78,000 things that you do, but I do want I do I would love to touch on between dreams because I know that's a that's a huge passion of yours, and it's just a a a fantastic thing. So I'll I'll roll that to you. Please tell me about it.

Chris Stone [00:56:26]:
Yeah.

Chris Ruggiero [00:56:26]:
I can loop that in real quick because I think it ties back into the idea of create a show. So Between Dreams is my kind of passion project where it's my playground to develop and explore ideas. And so there's a podcast that has a 25 episodes, I think, now. And another version of that is working with musicians. So Between Dreams Sessions, which is, there's a 65, I believe, of those on the YouTube channel. And it's a place where I can explore these ideas of kind of like this create a show. And there's I've invested a lot of time and money into developing this this kind of whole world, And it's it's kind of my I like to kind of say it's it's my, like, walking the walk and not just talking the talk of, like, if I believe in creating content and I'm trying to get people to give me money to do so, I should probably be doing it myself Yes. And and and figuring out a way.

Chris Ruggiero [00:57:31]:
So right now, there's some big ideas brewing of attaching. So, like, I have a lot of, like, IP original content, especially in the music side, that could be so to tie this again back together to, like, okay. What could a this is more like a bigger brand, but say, you know, Marriott or a a a a generic hotel brand, to keep the IP people happy. You know, we could go to every city and create these, like, live music experiences on the top of a mountain or a scenic place in that place. And then it's, like, you know, brought to you by, insert hotel name, you know, see the world with Hilton or whatever it is. So, yeah, that's where I'm like On that. In an ideal world, this will be I think we can land it on this without going too far over. But if, like, marketers and content creators like us believe in content and making stuff, there's there comes a point, and this will also make some of the marketers upset.

Chris Ruggiero [00:58:39]:
There comes a point if we say we're so good at this, why don't we just launch a product of our own and start selling it? You know, it's what Liquid Death did. Liquid Death, the the guy who used to work for VaynerMedia, he was like, I'm really good at marketing. I bet I can do this for myself and launch a product. He did, and it became the biggest beverage brand to ever exist. Like, that's not Coca Cola or Pepsi. And so I think that's where, you know, if there's one thing I can leave with the actual content creators that are listening is, like, have even if it's just a hobby and it's just but have your own thing, because that'll let you learn. Because the reason why I can be good when I work with Bob, who has 700,000 Instagram followers, or Taylor, my friend Taylor, who I work with, who now has 200,000 Instagram followers, And I can pick up those little or working with you, and and coming up with these ideas where I'm like, oh, I can be fast on decisions because there's a 65 singer songwriter performances that I've recorded. And every one of those, there's a challenge that happens.

Chris Ruggiero [00:59:52]:
Some of them are recorded outside. I was just in LA last week recording on top of a mountain in Los Angeles. You know, there's a helicopter that crosses everywhere in Los Angeles about every forty five seconds. So so, yeah, I think that to tie that all up, Between Dreams is my playground. There's not there's nothing that I'm selling. If you you can go look it up between dreams or between dream sessions or whatever. But I think the the point, that I'd like to make about between dreams is if you are a creator of any sort, have this thing that's like yours. And it's even better, I would say, if you don't if you're in a position where you can make it where it's not selling anything.

Chris Ruggiero [01:00:33]:
I think Between Dreams is respected by a lot of folks, because we don't make any money. It cost me a sizable amount of money to keep it afloat, and there's never been anything that we sell. So it's terrible advice if you need some money right now.

Chris Stone [01:00:52]:
Right. Right. But, like,

Chris Ruggiero [01:00:54]:
really good advice if you, like, ten years from now, you wanna, like, say you did something. And and I will say, like, terrible, like, in the granular, but, like, it's the reason why certain people just call because it's, like, the best business card ever. Like, I don't really do direct sale. I don't do direct marketing. Things just often not this will sound arrogant, but a lot of times, things just land in my lap. Mhmm. And I can directly credit that because, you know, there's hundreds and hundreds of pieces of content that I've made. So it's like they kind of speak for themselves.

Chris Ruggiero [01:01:31]:
So goes back to the mere exposure effect to to land the plane. Whatever it is you do, just keep showing up and be the person that people like, and people will like you just because they're familiar and they've seen you show up a bunch. So you can sell houses or paint or podcast production, whatever it is, just because you keep showing up, like you guys are doing here. It's amazing.

Chris Stone [01:02:00]:
Awesome. Chris, you're awesome. I have so much more to say. We could do another show just on that. On you know, as someone who works for other people, and we share that, having your own sandbox to play in is massive. And and between dream sessions, go to that on YouTube. Go to all the places, chrisregerio.com/1-1electricstudio I'm sorry, electriccreative.studio. I that's, you know, say that three times fast.

Chris Stone [01:02:34]:
And, and check out Chris regerio, our man here in the ATL. Chris, this has been awesome. Thank you for making our show better today. And, for everyone else, as always, don't fear the gear.

Jim Fuhs [01:02:49]:
Thanks for listening to Dealcasters. Congratulations. You've taken another step forward in your content creation journey. Please don't forget to hit the subscribe or follow button here in your favorite podcast player so you can be reminded every time we drop an episode.

Chris Stone [01:03:06]:
We love hearing from our listeners and viewers.

Chris Ruggiero [01:03:08]:
And if you're wanting

Chris Stone [01:03:09]:
to watch our shows live on Amazon, feel free to follow Dealcasters Live as well at dealcasters.live. Follow us on Twitter or subscribe to our YouTube channel where we also included added content that you cannot find anywhere else.

Jim Fuhs [01:03:26]:
If you have questions about this episode or have something you want us to review, you can also email us at dealcasters@dealcasters.live. Thanks again for listening, and you know the deal. Don't fear the gear.