#150: Mardy Fish on Living with Anxiety

DISCLAIMER: Please note we use a transcription service, so there may be some errors in the following transcription of this episode. If you can, please refer to the audio for exact quotations.

Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Control the Controllables. I'm Dan Kiernan from SotoTennis Academy in Spain, and we teamed up with Macx Tennis academy in Ireland. We brought this podcast together to entertain, educate, and energize the tennis community through the different lenses of the sport that we love. From Grand Slam champions to those at grassroots level, from sports journalists, to backroom staff. Our aim is truly to get under the bonnet of the tennis world at all levels. So sit back and enjoy the show. Welcome to Episode 150, of Control the Controllables. And isn't that strange to say 150 episodes, how quickly that has gone by. And we do have a special guest for you today. But before that a big welcome to any new listeners to the podcast. And a big welcome back to so many of you loyal listeners who have been with us over the last 18 months of this fun journey with Control the Controllables. And if the podcast has inspired you over the last 18 months, the 150 episodes that we have brought to you and in any way I say this without any expectation. But please do consider making a donation of support. And thank you by buying us a coffee. This will assist with the time and costs involved in bringing each episode to you as we continue to improve and grow the podcast. And you'll find those links in the show notes. But now for the real reason that we're here this this amazing episode, this amazing guest and a story that will inspire and stir up emotion in us all.

Mardy Fish  02:01

People with mental health. They have gone through mental health people that commit suicide rates. So even suicide rates during a pandemic like we're going through right now where a lot of people are struggling, it gives people hope that I had those types of thoughts, where am I going to hurt myself am I going to hurt someone else. And I got out of those thoughts and was able to not only get out of those dots, but get back in and play at a fairly high level back at the US Open where all of that came to a head and and I wanted to share that success story with people because I didn't have one when I was going through it.

Daniel Kiernan  02:39

And that is Mardy Fish. Some of us will know him as world number seven on the ATP Tour. Some of you will know him as the Davis Cup captain. But I think globally outside of the sport of tennis, many of you will know Him for His amazing Netflix documentary, Untold: Breaking Point where he lays his story bare, you know from growing up, playing tennis with his great met. And for Andy Roddick, all the way through to his mental health battles and how he managed to overcome them to return back to the professional tennis game. He spoken very openly on his Netflix show about his mental health struggles. And we get this amazing opportunity to deep dive into that into his story. What makes him tick. So anyone that's watched the Netflix show, you're gonna find out even more from this episode. And anyone that hasn't watched it, then after this episode, I'm sure you're gonna go and want to watch the Netflix show afterwards. It's a great honor a great privilege for us to have Mardy on Control the Controllables and I know you guys are going to absolutely love it. So sit back and enjoy Mardy Fish. So Maori fish a big welcome to Control the Controllables how're you doing?

Mardy Fish  04:09

I'm doing great, man. It's good to be good to be on the pod.

Daniel Kiernan  04:12

This is a this is a real treat for for me. And I know the listeners we've we've actually been asking over the last 13 months, who do you want on the podcast? You know, we put it out in the social media. And yours has been one of the most popular names that keeps coming up. So for you to give your time we really appreciate it. And and I think to start off Marty, I think to have you obviously you've been in the spotlight over the last few months with Netflix and that opens up a different audience. We're not just talking about now a tennis audience who knows you but we're talking about a completely different world of people out there. And I think the first question is how are you doing? You know, how are things how are things in your world?

04:56

Yeah, things are great look, I you know, retired A Life in tennis doesn't necessarily mean retired and, you know, work or things like that I, you know, I retired in 2015, and I thought, you know, took a job with the USDA to help some of the younger Americans, you know, maybe must have been eight to 12 weeks, you know, something like that, not not very long, okay, I'll work three, three months, a year, two months a year, and, and we just had a, basically a newborn boy at the time, and thought it'd be great to, you know, to spend some time with him, and, you know, and just relax and just, you know, kind of go over the last. I don't know, I guess, 16 years of my professional career, but what people mostly don't understand about, oh, why'd you retire 32 years old, or 33 years old. I mean, I've been playing tournaments since I was six. So, you know, so it's a long time, you know, 25 years or so. So it was the right timing for me. But, you know, I took, you know, took that gig and I loved helping some of the younger guys and just loved helping, period. And I found myself like, super bored, you know, the nap taking a nap every day when my son would take a nap. And like, you know, as like, what am I doing here? So, I jumped into the finance world, which has taken up a ton of my time, and is a completely new world. For me, I was a person who my father handled my finances, we didn't invest in much, if anything, was basically just keep, you know, sort of try and not spend it all and, and see how much you can make sort of deal. And so it's all sort of gibberish for me jumping into that world. I've been in, in in there for about four years now. Again, a totally different language. And I have a blast sort of learning, learning it learning that I've done less and less sort of exhibitions to tennis exhibitions and things as I move forward in the finance world. And I'm playing a couple golf tournaments a year and a couple of little celebrity golf tournaments. I like playing in the I grew up playing golf. So I like playing in the do the US Open qualifier every year don't worry, I'm I don't qualify and will not qualify. But I do try and it's fun. So that's about it. Honestly, I mean, uh, you know, with adding another daughter or another kid and in a girl, you know, so, um, my kids are almost eight and five and, and, you know, the wife and you know, just life really. So, yeah, I mean, I, my days sort of start light and fill up quickly. And, you know, whether it's a meeting on Zoom in, you know, my, my regular gig on a daily basis, or whether it's, you know, can you pick up our son at two o'clock from school or whatever. It is always something to do. Absolutely.

Daniel Kiernan  08:05

Well, you're, you're downplaying the golf. Mardy. I, when I had a little luck you, I'm sure I saw that you shot a 63 a couple of years ago in, in quite a big event that was televised. And so I mean, you're, you're playing some serious golf of your shooting 63

Mardy Fish  08:24

Well, that was one of those rare rounds where everything kind of comes together. But yes, I did.

Daniel Kiernan  08:30

Yeah, but I shoot I shoot an 88 when it all comes together. You know, this is this is we're talking two very different things here.

Mardy Fish  08:38

Tennis and golf, for me are two things that for whatever reason, tennis, golf and baseball, you know, because of the sort of the lefty swing, I'm a lefty in golf and then it was my two handed backhand in tennis that were sort of excelled at a young age for whatever reason and and those those things came very natural to me you know, I wasn't the athlete that there's two types of athletes in my opinion one type athletes like you know the Lebron James right to just run jump sprint, just like crazy athlete and jump out of the gym and, and whatever that is not me. I am not that athlete. So I've added I've made up a new athlete that is the the slow doesn't jump very high but has really good hands and feel and coordination. I mean, and I I'm in and all that stuff. That athlete which I just made up you know, in the last couple years is is what I mostly excel at. So I learned those country club type sports, you know, the tennis and golf type stuff. When I was really young like a language it's much easier to learn golf when you're young. And I I've always kept a golf club in, in, you know, sort of in the back of my mind in in, you know, wanting to when I was younger, wanting to play, wanting to play big events and you know Jr events and things all while having a you know being from a tennis family and having a father who who's a teaching pro Tennis Teaching Pro and you know has a love for golf but but you know, but is a teaching pro and was going to the US Open as a fan before I was even born so you could imagine I didn't stand much of a chance to if I was going to excel at any of those sports that tennis was going to be the one he was going to push me towards and thankfully I think he got it right.

Daniel Kiernan  10:35

And this this athlete that you again, downplay, made it to world number six, you know, so I'm gonna

Mardy Fish  10:46

love six, I would love that

Daniel Kiernan  10:48

I thought I thought it was six or seven will give you a top 10 will give you top eight, you know, which is which is certainly it's certainly not bad. And I think there's a there's a whole world of things actually that that obviously we can open up to get an opportunity to talk to you to talk to someone who has been as high as that in the world of tennis. I think there's so many things the fact that you've then been so open about your story. I think there's there's lots to go into, but I want to stay current for a minute before we get into you. And you're talking about this the world of finance, you know you're you're looking very studious, you know you've got your, your into your new world, your family life. How How much are you watching tennis and obviously we are coming to the business end in Melbourne. How much have you had your eye on the Australian Open this year?

Mardy Fish  11:39

Well, look I what I didn't mention there at the beginning of of that was was the Davis Cup captaincy, and that is something that is an absolute dream job of mine something that was the first thing I ever had to interview for. So, you know, that can be kind of daunting at times, you know, not understanding what you know, what are they asking? And, you know, usually it's just tennis or whatever, you know, will you do this or what you know them you know, people asking me for things, me sort of shoe on the other foot doesn't feel quite as comfortable. So it was so it was an interesting sort of thing, how it played out getting that getting that role, I didn't know what else to do, but to literally call everyone who I thought may have a hand in the decision whether that was someone who worked at the USDA, whether that was the head of the USDA, whether that was a player I called every player let them know exactly what the Davis Cup captaincy meant to me. And, you know, all the way down the line. They they supported me and and I got the gig and it was something that that keeps me involved in tennis for sure. To answer your question, I watch a lot of tennis, I watch all of the Americans if they're playing, although Australia is pretty brutal time timezone wise. So I catch those on the match highlights and things but, but

Daniel Kiernan  13:15

exciting time as well for us tennis right now. Yeah, it'd be really exciting.

13:21

Yeah. And in terms of in terms of, you know, on the men's side, obviously, you know, we've got five guys that are under 23 years old and top 50 in the world and, you know, are 23 and under, you know, so yeah, we have some talent, you know, that stuff kind of comes in waves, you can sort of look at other countries that have been pretty dominant in the past few years, you know, in the past, maybe couple decades or decade or so in like Switzerland, or, you know, I can see I can think of like a Sweden, you know, for instance, where, like, you know, really great tennis history, and, you know, they had some incredible champions, you know, Switzerland, specifically some incredible champions there for, for a while, and, you know, not much behind them. And so and so, in the States, we've got a little bit of a spot here where we don't have necessarily anyone in the top 20 But we're really deep. And we've got some really young players that are that shows some serious promise and some serious talent so that that keeps me motivated to to keep an eye on what's going on. I try and watch a lot of stuff just because you know, if we play you know, let's say Greece in in Davis Cup next I'll you know, I'll keep an eye on tickets pass or know what you know, he's, he's up to and, you know, in any other country. I don't necessarily understand why I thought of him, but maybe you just because he's still in the semis of Australia. So he's still Yeah, and so look that that it's an exciting time in And in the world of professional men's tennis, because you've got Rafa and Novak who are still, you know, out there playing right now Roger sort of up in the air in terms of, you know, when he's going to come back, if he's going to come back and how, you know, how successful will he be? You know, because knowing him, you, you know, I don't think he has any interest in coming back and just being a Middling Sort of ATP player, which I can't even, it's weird to even say that. So, you know, with him, his breath, his name. So, you know, that's exciting. You know, that's interesting. And then the exciting part is these young guys, you know, I mean, we're seeing, we're seeing Medvedev, we're seeing Tsitsipas, we're seeing Berrettini We're seeing center we're seeing, you know, I see a lot of these guys, we just went to Davis Cup in Turin, and we had to, we had to face Berrettini had an injury. And so we had to face Sinner, and ranked around point by us in Sonego. Sonego was also a great phenomenal player, a young player for Italy. So you know, and then and then, you know, maybe a decade ago, Italy went through a time where they didn't have really a, you know, a top player. So it's, it comes in waves, and I think we in this crop of American men, we've got, we got a lot of talent, and a couple of those guys are gonna break through, in my opinion and be in the top 10 in the world. And I think that's just, you know, that's just something that's going to happen. on the women's side, though the US women, they they don't need any help from anyone speaking of speaking about them or speaking, you know, hey, if you're talking about American tennis, and then not winning a winning a major recently, you better be talking only about men's tennis, because because the women are studs over there. And they've gotten we've gotten another two in the semis down and down in Australia and Madison Keys, and Danielle Collins, and you know, they just keep coming, like every seems like every slam the US women just keep coming. So I'd be remiss to not not bring them up when when I talk about American tennis. And

Daniel Kiernan  17:06

That's the it's the first Grand Slam since I believe 1997 that hasn't had a William sister in it. And and I guess you would go, the Williams' are gone, who else is coming and then all of a sudden, there's two of them in the semis. And I think it's quite a quite a fitting way, fitting way on that now. I would I would love to talk about this all day. But there's a there's other things I want to get into Mardy. I think a lot of us have an idea of your story. You know, we've we've we've obviously watched you on the TV over the years. As I mentioned earlier, if anyone's not seen mighty fish on Netflix, the untold, you know, it has to it's a must watch. You know, it really is it's it's incredible. But if I take you back to, to almost the start, and I believe in Minnesota, was where you were brought up. You know, you mentioned earlier age six, you were already playing tournament. So you were you were good young, you know, there's some people that this comes to a little bit a little bit later. Give us a little synopsis of of the start of your tennis journey, you know where that passion grew and, and take us up to the point of when you thought Shit I'm I'm actually pretty good at this. This could this could be something that I want to push forward. Yeah.

Mardy Fish  18:28

It's a great question. Look, I wasn't I wasn't a great player I just played at an early age. I wasn't at my first match that I played. I was 606. So I was six but the other kid was six as well. Okay. His name was Jose de armas. I'm still buddies with him. No way Jose, Jose. And I played first tennis match I ever played my life. I remember warming up for the match and the kid took overheads. And he had a kick serve. And I was like, what if, you know, I didn't know I had an overhead and I certainly didn't have a kick serve at six years old but Jose did and and you know, we're still friends to this day, which is kind of funny. But look, I I played like, like most other kids and, you know, highly encourage kids, parents that are listening to this that have athletic kids to play multiple sports, played team sports, play individual sports. Those things both come together really well. Tennis is a phenomenal sport to play in terms of growth in terms of learning how to lose and winning on your own figuring out how to win stuff like that. There's a lot of losing in tennis. There's only one guy that wins. You're one person that wins every every week and even if you win a match, you look at the stats you can you can let's say you win a match 6464 Which feels like a fairly routine when you know you may win only 51 or 52% of the points So, it's a lot of losing 49 48% of the points you lose. So it takes, you know, builds character and stuff, tennis is a phenomenal game to play at all ages. I wasn't it wasn't until I stopped playing baseball at 13 and started just playing tennis and golf and then stopped playing tournament golf and just just played tennis and went over to saddlebrook Academy when I was 15 years old, was a sophomore in high school 10th grade and, and, and the idea was to go and play against kids that were way better than me and play every day. And I went from, from I remember, there was a tournament in the state of Florida and the SEC in our section that if you were in the top 48 in the state, you were not allowed to play the tournament, I was the number one seat in that tournament was called the satellite state close. So I mean, look, I was you know, top 50 And in the state of Florida is still really good, right? You can get a college music you use it as a tool for an education, you can get a scholarship somewhere not anywhere but somewhere I'm sure. And, you know, I was on that sort of path I went to saddlebrook and, and spent spent, you know, time playing before school, went to a little bit of school a little bit is in maybe even an understatement a little bit of school and then and then just, you know, went back out on the courts in the afternoon and just played and we played every day and I went from the you know, 50th or so ranked tennis player in the state of Florida in the 16 and unders to top, you know, kind of three or four in that one year. And that one year sort of gave me sort of changed my trajectory a little bit in terms of okay, am I going to go back to Vero Beach now where I grew up in a small town sort of beachy small quiet town where I had one or two guys to play with and hit with my dad or my gonna go down and hit with the likes of Andy Roddick who was number one in the country at his age group and all the way through or Dave and Chris Martin who are really top ranked juniors Bo Hodge really top ranked Junior and see how far I can take this and with the you know with the backing and you know, love of my parents and you know them sort of supporting every situation in that regard. I went and did it and went down there moved down to Boca Raton, lived with Andy's family lived at his house and with his family and his parents were nice enough to take me in and treat me like one of their own and in a good way in a bad way. Sometimes you know, waking me up at 5am to stretch my shoulder and you know, Mr. Radek, his father has passed since but, but Andy's father, but, you know, I just remember every morning, you know, Jerry coming in Jerry Roddick coming in and saying Marty, wake up time to stretch. And I'm like, I don't want to stretch five o'clock in the morning. Mr. Roddick, you know, please. So you know, so So that was sort of the trajectory right was, let's play with these guys every day. Let's play with guys that are, I'm getting to the point to where I'm just as good as but but still are better than me. And I was I was a fairly late bloomer, in terms of, you know, I started really early, like I said, but but didn't get good, or really good, at least until, you know, 1615 1617 years old. And, you know, it wasn't till to answer the final part of your question. When did you really know that there was, you know, something special there, or maybe something that you could do for a living? It was kind of around that first year, a firt my first year of ATMs so I'm 16 years old, I'd have a December birthday. So parents and kids who know Junior Tennis will understand that December birthday is not you know, is like you're the youngest person of that year. I don't know if they've changed it since I've known

Daniel Kiernan  24:17

my son My son who plays is November the 30th. And

Mardy Fish  24:22

you feel my pain that like I don't think you

Daniel Kiernan  24:25

know until you go through it actually, as a coach I used I never realized how big of a thing that was but actually not when you go through it, you realize it

Mardy Fish  24:33

is sure and what And what's funny is that at the time, you're thinking well, this stinks you know, everybody's older than you and you know, they got 12 year olds that are shaving and like I don't even my voice hasn't even dropped yet you know and I'm like I'm trying to mature at a rate that is a lot slower than they are maturing at and so that that part was you know, was was difficult but but getting to you know, getting up into playing against in that age group against players that were older than me ultimately helped me a ton. It really did. It ultimately helped to me to get to improve at a quicker rate, to understand how to be players that were better than me how to develop, how to develop your strengths and understand your weaknesses. So, you know, so it all, it all worked out clearly. But but, you know, in the moment, you're, you're thinking, well, December birthday, that stinks, well, you're playing in the satellite stay close to 15 years old, or 14 years old, and the satellites stay close, you can't even get into if you're in the top 48 in the state. So it wasn't all peaches and cream, that's for sure.

Daniel Kiernan  25:42

And the relationship with mean, I'm a, I was a tennis player of sorts, certainly nothing anywhere near your league. For tennis, Coach tennis has been my life, you know, so I followed, you know, very closely, everyone's career, and obviously, yourself and the, you know, have been have been a big part of that looking, looking from the outside. And I think until the Netflix show, a lot of people wouldn't have quite known about the relationship between you guys, you know, obviously two Americans up and coming. But living together, going through all of those things that you did, when you reflect on that relationship, it's obviously seems like quite a special relationship. But I would imagine a topsy turvy relationship. We also know that, to make it in tennis, we do need lots of things to align how how influential for both of you, but if we say certainly from from your perspective, was that relationship with Andy, in terms of the success of your career,

Mardy Fish  26:49

it was paramount in a lot of different ways. To give you an example of our friendship or relationship, it was more of brothers instead of friends or best friends, we competed and fought at everything, whether it was on the tennis court, basketball court, ping pong. So you know, the regular stuff that high schoolers, you know, kind of go through and compete at girls, you know, things like that, we would, I thought I had a faster way to we were going to the same spot, which was, you know, we went to the same school down there. And I thought I had a faster way than he did. So we drove separate cars, because I thought, you know, I could go my way. And we had this thing where you could only go a certain mile per hour and like, My way was better than your way so I'm going to drive because I don't want to go with you, because you're gonna get there slower than I am, you know, kind of thing. So like, you know, we competed at everything. But he was someone who was he really understood, I think, if you can, if you asked him, talent wise, at least with like, you know, just raw sort of talent skills, hand skills, anticipation, things like that, he would say that I was superior to him, but where he was superior to me was, which was far more important was the understanding the work ethic, understanding competitiveness, being competitive, in every scenario and situation, and just never ever I, you know, I didn't like quit per se, but like never, ever, ever giving in. And he just, you know, apart from obviously, his physical tools, you know, he was a big guy. So, you know, you've obviously developed one of the best surfers of all time. You know, he had one of the biggest forehands, you know, I had ever seen, certainly, and he used that a lot in his early days to get to number one in the world. He really understood what it took the dedication, discipline and professionalism at a young age. And I didn't, it took me until, and thankfully, I did figure it out. But it didn't take me until I was 28 years old, you know, and he figured it out when he was 12. And just develop from there. And so that was why he excelled at a really young age. And that's why he excelled at every age level in which is really rare, as you know, I'm sure in tennis, right? Like, the best players that are 10 and 12 years old, aren't necessarily going to be the best players when they're 20 or 30. There it's actually fairly rare. And he was number one in the state and the country. 10s 1214 16 is eighteens and beyond. And so to have that to, to watch to have that to compete against on a daily basis, really drove me motivated me. I wanted to be as good or better than him. I also wanted I also wanted success for him because that meant success. You know, that meant that if I were going to stick with him, which I thought I could, you know, I had no reason not to because I'm a young, you know, punk 15 1617 year old kid, why would I think that I wasn't better than him so I could follow along his success and have similar success. I myself, didn't necessarily work out, just like that. But I had that to sort of lean on and incredibly thankful for that. I mean, that you look at guys nowadays, I mean, they're very, very rare, but we know who they are. There's Sasha Sverige they're, they're Citypass they're, you know, Federer. They're Nadal they're even Joe kovich. Andy Murray was really good at a young age. I mean, these guys that like really understood, you know, broke in at 16 cent Lleyton Hewitt you know, another guy where you just broken at such a young age, I mean, you can keep going back to Michael Chang and all that, you know, forever but like, those are the ones that was his path, and those were the ones and, you know, it's it's fairly easy to say if just if Roger didn't exist, how many majors would Andy have you know, not even the other so Novak you know, beat them a bunch and Andy had success against Novak as well and and Rafa had success against him and he had success against Rafa but man, Roger beat him a lot. And he beat him in some big spots. And he beat him in a lot of semifinals of tournaments that Roger ended up winning, you know, Grand Slam semi finals. He must have beaten him in 5678 of those, to where Roger then went on to win the tournament, which in fact, Andy probably would have gone on to win that tournament. So

Daniel Kiernan  31:43

there was a final, so I I was lucky enough to play a Wimbledon. I want to say 2004 2005 It doubles. And Andy, I'm sure played him in the final maybe 2004 I'm sure there'll be tennis people out there. That'll tell me I'm wrong. But there was there was one of the years they played and as a Brit, you know, I was I we were getting ready for like Manchester Challenger and the grasscourt events after Wimbledon. And I think they came off for rain. And I was in that because in the locker room because Andy, I don't know if you remember this, but Andy always used to he didn't go in the seeding locker room for some reason. So he was always the two years that I played it he was actually in the the mere mortals locker room upstairs. We went upstairs. And and we would get you know, he would he would always be sure, showing us his fan mail and all these kinds of stuff. It was a really nice inside for us to see. But he came in that locker room at the two sets the love down or whatever it was after the rain. It could have been after the match. And he demolished 456 rackets and you could see this like he just couldn't beat it. Federer was there. He was in his head he was he was that guy couldn't get past it. You know, in you could see the frustration in it. And to see that firsthand, because there's I guess Andy always had almost an arrogance but a confidence about him. That Federer just seemed to knock out of them.

Mardy Fish  33:21

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I know. I don't know if it was just a matchup thing or just Roger was just better. But yeah, I mean, look, I remember that I remember all that stuff. I remember you know, there are two locker rooms for people who don't know there's a seated locker room and an unseeded locker room and unseated locker room is upstairs and there's far too many people in that room in that room and then the the seated locker room which I wasn't able to make it into until 2004 that year and you better believe that I went straight down there when I made when I made it because they did your laundry right after the match and they were awesome down there. I mean they had these showers with this crazy water pressure and

Daniel Kiernan  34:02

we have them we have them as well. We have good showers

Mardy Fish  34:06

Make no mistake though. I mean I spent I spent 2005 and six and seven and a couple other you know a bunch of other years in that locker room too so it wasn't like I was just had a you know like Federer or even Andy where I had a you know a locker that was just had my name on it down there so but know that that was the tournament for me honestly that that got away from you know that he was destined to win you know, I mean, he was destined to he was a great grasp player obviously won Queens many times. He was he was certainly robbed a Wimbledon title one way or another. You know, whether it was you know, like he said, Oh 402 He had a great you know, a great run. He was a little younger there are three last Roger in the in the semi, you know, he had some big some big, big wins there as well. Oh, when he was younger beaten Greg Rusedski and things like that when you know, Rusedski was a, you know, an Englishman back then or maybe he still wasn't Canadian English, who knows. But anyways, he had some he had some great wins and again, like he was just he was awesome too. I don't want to get bogged down on Andy because this isn't about Andy but we, he was he was awesome. He had it his work ethic, like I said, was unmatched. And it was awesome to awesome to have that as sort of a alpha male of our generation to watch him.

Daniel Kiernan  35:35

And just to finish the point on Andy, he lost his last two matches to Marty fish.

Mardy Fish  35:43

I think he lost his last three. If we go back, I'm okay. So here here's our head to head right. I won the first one. Yep. in Delray Beach, 2003. But he pulled out we played first round, he was number one seen I was unseated. He pulled out of the match, I think because he was he knew he was going to lose, but he's claimed he had an injury. So

Daniel Kiernan  36:06

before we've all seen,

Mardy Fish  36:09

and then and then he beat me nine times in a row. And then I beat him to get to nine for did I not? Is there a uni

Daniel Kiernan  36:19

you need to have a word with the ATP because the ATP have you down as nine and three. So the you won the day, you won the first and you and you won the last two is what the ATP

Mardy Fish  36:36

I won the first in the last and that's all that matters. That's all that matters.

Daniel Kiernan  36:39

So you as a professional tennis player, against somebody like I'm around players at an academy parents to dream of having someone who gets the world number seven, and to ever achieve what you've achieved. But everyone's mind works different in this sport. And when you look back, do you view your career as a successful career?

Mardy Fish  37:06

It's a great question. The answer is yes. But man did I have some hurdles and some obstacles that were either self inflicted, or, or unlucky. But you know, the obviously the mental health stuff was out of my control. And the game in my life really was taken away from me for a bit. Obviously, my career was taken away from me at maybe the highest point of it. But in the beginning was my fault. You know, I mean, like I had some injuries but injuries you know, you can see eyes and lucky with injuries. But I had some injuries because I was I wasn't working hard enough. I wasn't taking care of my body well enough. I needed to improve my physical fitness. I never thought that it was that big of a deal. I could when I went to the problem was I had these the I would have these runs every once in a while Dan where like I would, I would be you know, if I played really well. I was a good player. I could beat anyone if I played really well. But it's rare to play really well. And I would have some success. And then I would buy a car and have fun. And then next thing I knew I was ranked, you know, 35 Again, I would get down to 15. And then I moved back up to 40 or 50. Or even in one case in 2008 99 entering the tournament in Indian Wells. And you know, having a lot of stuff come together there and beating Roger roger for the first and only time in the semifinals there. I knew I could be good. But how was I going to be able to put it all together? Consistently and that was my problem. I was never consistent with my results.

Daniel Kiernan  38:53

Were you protecting? What is that? Is there any element of because you were good, because you were talented when when people's people spoke about Marty fish, it was Jesus guy skillful Jesus guy can play. Do you think you were almost protecting yourself? Because there was a fear of almost literally letting it all out there doing the whole thing and still may be failing to what you felt you could have achieved? Yeah,

Mardy Fish  39:21

no, I don't think so. And I under completely understand what you're getting at because I feel like there are some players that have that that crutch or that cop out. Right? Like, oh, well, I just didn't try that hard. I tried hard. That was never the issue. Like you step on the court. I didn't act like an angel on the court. Every time I was a feisty dude. When I was young, I was immature. So yes, of course we're there's some things that I wish I wish I didn't do on the court or didn't act like that on the court. Of course, of course. off the court, I knew what kind of person I was. So it didn't necessarily translate that much by got into with Mike Coach or my father or something on, you know, during a match, it would never translate really off the court because, you know, I guess you can go around and ask people, but I'm a good person I was I had lots of friends. I'm from Minnesota, and they have a saying Minnesota Nice. I am Minnesota Nice. So like, I like I had that in me. I like when people liked me. So I wanted that as well. And so I would sort of guard against it off the court. Now on the court again, I was really feisty. If things didn't go my way, I didn't handle the negative stress very well at all. I try and deflect a lot. Never really was my fault. That type of that type of stuff. But I never never was able to or, you know, came off the court was like, Oh, it's okay, because I didn't try that hard. Certainly not. There are players like that. I won't mention names, but we know who they are, who some of them are. We can guess so. But But look, I you know, wasn't until wasn't until I had my sort of final injury. I had a really fun run with you quick story I in the US Open, I go and play US Open. I never had much success there pre 2008. And Andy and I were talking and he said, and I said, Dude, why do you like the open so much? It's so hectic. And it's just like there's people pulling you in all different directions in New York, and it's loud and blah, blah, that I'll never forget this. He says, Have you played a night match yet? And I said no, I actually haven't I haven't played you know, and get draw, you know, a top name early on or something like that, and certainly wasn't going to have a night match on Ash because of me at that at that moment. So no, I never, never have and he says come to me when you do. And sure enough that year and that was before that tournament that year, I played two, I played one in the third round against James Blake, beat him in straight sets. And then had one in the quarterfinals against an adult. And it was electric. And I fell in love with the tournament right then. And all of a sudden it went from my almost my least favorite event, just looking forward to it. Obviously, the event you want to do well at the most but my least favorite event to my favorite event, you know, the biggest one of the year, the one that I wanted to do best at every year. And, and so those those those night matches really did it for me and got me on the on that path. Now. Now, fast forward to literally 12 months later, I am pulling out of the US Open because I have a knee injury because I'm walking around at 200 pounds, I'm six foot three to 200 pounds. And that, you know, you're not walking down the street going like oh, well, you know, look at that kid, he's overweight, but you're like, look at that kid, that's professional athlete. And you're like, that's a professional athlete. So like, that would be the sort of how to how to look at me or judge me as as you know, in the looks department at least in terms of my physical fitness. And I had a so I had that knee surgery, and I had the time so I wasn't able to come back to the US Open this tournament that I fell in love with, you know, I wasn't able to go back and it really hurt mentally emotionally that I wasn't able to go back to that tournament and just kind of defend the quarterfinals that I had made, I didn't you know, it wasn't like I won the tournament or anything. But I had a nice run and lost to Nadal and a close match. And it was an awesome tournament, you know, for me, and so I wasn't able to go back and I had time, I had the time necessary to cut some weight to get on a diet to hire a chef to turn into Novak Djokovic, now watch every single thing that came into my body and went in on purpose. And it worked. And it got me to a point to where I could. I didn't have to rely on me playing well to be successful. I could rely on my fitness way more. So when I played well, and I had my fitness I was almost impossible to beat. I beat everyone when I played that way outside of probably Djokovic. When I was playing average, but I had my fitness I could beat everyone that I was supposed to be but probably no one that I shouldn't have beaten if that makes any sense. And you can build a hell of a career beating people you're supposed to beat if you're good and talented. And I was and I was lucky enough to have the talent and I I parlayed the work ethic and I finally understood the work ethic and dedication, discipline professionalism that Andy learned at 10. I learned at 28 and I'm just thankful that I learned it. So this is kind of full circle to your question of Did you have a successful career? I think I I did because I can put my head on my pillow. Now, knowing that I did everything I could possibly do to get everything out of my game what I was God given. And that wasn't my path wasn't to win a Grand Slam, it wasn't to be number one in the world. Mine was number seven that was as high as I could get. Now, could I have gotten a little bit higher if my mental health or my anxiety disorder took me away from the game, I don't know. But I don't dwell on that at all, I dwell on the fact that I, I worked my butt off. And I worked as hard or harder than any athlete in the world at my fitness. And it turned my, it turned my life around forever. Because not only did it give me the opportunity to, you know, to make, you know, adding zeros to paychecks and things like that. It gave me the life that I have today, which is, you know, living in Los Angeles, my kids go to private school, I'm the Davis Cup captain. I mean, if I never would have turned it around, they don't give those things to guys that are ranked 30 in the world, their whole career. They give them to players that are former players that guys look up to and that guys watched in our, you know, maybe we're fans up or whatever it is, they don't give it to guys that are ranked 50. So So I was really, really at least in the US. So I was really, really thankful that I was able to eventually figure that out.

Daniel Kiernan  46:28

Well, well done. And I and I tip my hat to you. I mean you for from from an outsider's view, you've had an incredible tennis career, but I think as life goes on, tennis starts to become almost contextualized within our life. And it's actually quite short period. Actually, you know, when we're in that bubble, it's like tennis, tennis. That's what it is. It's, it's, it's all that matters. And I think when we look back at the legend of Maori fish, yes, we will look back as a world class tennis player who had incredible results on the court. But we will look back at the impact you have had on so many people's lives by speaking out about your mental health issues, you know, something that and I'm a big believer that we all have health issues, whether it's physical body or mind, all of us do. And there's a range of that, you know, there's a range of breaking a leg or having a cold, you know, there's a range of having difficulty or having an anxiety disorder. And I think the fact that you have shined a light on that is what will will go down in the history, it will fit for Marty fish. Now, if we look now go to 2012. And, you know, well documented from that period, fourth round, about to play Roger Federer, it almost doesn't get a bigger moment than that. Talk the listeners through that moment. And, and was was that the first time that you'd experienced? And all you mentioned on that the Netflix show that a few months early, you'd started to maybe have some internal battles going on, talk us through that period. Yeah.

Mardy Fish  48:12

So I had a, an issue early in 2012, called tachycardia. It's an electrical issue in your heart, it's, there's electrodes around your heart and they fire and it's like the quarterback to your heart, when they fire it tells your heart to beat so fire pump fire pump, there's 1000s of them, some of them can, can malfunction uncontrollably. And so think of like they're just a couple of them out of the 1000s or, you know, just sort of flat out you just sort of flashing or flaring up and just going up up up about and so your heart doesn't know anything but to Okay, well, this is telling me to be it's the quarterback so I gotta beat so it would it would be I was very diligent at the time of my training, I would train in tournaments scenarios where I was during a match and, and I would get my heart rate as high as it could possibly get. And then I have 25 seconds to get it down. I use breathing techniques and everything. I mean, it was the whole gamut of every one I say every stone unturned literally every stone unturned to train, and get my body and my self in the best physical position that I could now that haunted me a bit because I knew that in those scenarios, I couldn't get my heart to beat more than 192 beats per minute. That was as high as I could get it to. I remember like it was yesterday, when I trained like that, when these episodes would happen with his tachycardia it would be 220 230 beats per minute. So obviously incredibly uncomfortable. And you can't stop it. It sort of stops on its own. You can't die from it. But hell if I knew that, that that were the case, right? I mean, like so I get it once in Miami after a loss in And in the my ad to Miami or whatever it was called, like, that was called the Lib Dem, like, always should be called down there and last one Monaco and you know, quarterfinal match is a good, you know, good match, I got my butt kicked, but he but you know, he played really well. And anyway, so I went to the hospital that night because I thought I was dying, I really did and, and so you know, kind of fast forward just a bit that the the traumatic experiences that I had from that where I had to go a couple times and figure out I ended up having a procedure called an ablation, where they basically go in and kill the bad electrodes, so they won't, so that won't happen again, it's about an 80% accuracy rate to for it to be successful. And mine was successful the first time so they went in, did it and I got out of it fine now, from those traumatic experiences, I was having some sort of thoughts of like, is this going to come on again, is this going to happen again, is this you know, as my as my heart, okay, you know, those thoughts morphed into sort of everyday life, like am I going to even feel okay, like, like, imagine playing a five set match at the US Open or, you know, anywhere, and, you know, for our match or whatever, and your body is going to feel like crap after like, just, you know, just what, cuz like anybody from Djokovic all the way to, you know, myself at the time. And so, I would sort of dwell on those feelings and know that those feelings were coming after the match, but I never had any issues during the match. For whatever reason, it was my only safe haven idle mind, Devil's Playground, I had a lot to think about and worry about when I was on the court. So I never thought about it, then. But right after and right before, I would always have these weird thoughts in, you know, at the time, I didn't, you know, early August, I didn't know what they were, I was just starting to sort of figure out didn't have anyone around me that had any mental health issues. So it was just sort of starting to figure out what, what mental health was. And so it was sort of understood that I was suffering from anxiety of some sort. But I'm going to try and get through this tournament, this last tournament of the summer, and then we'll just go home and figure it out from there. And I didn't, you know, and I had gotten to the third round, and finally got to play one of those matches I was talking about where the night matches on Arthur Ashe, where it wasn't for me, it was usually for the other guy. Well, this one was finally for me, I was, you know, the number one ranked American in the world and, you know, in the top 10 are right around there. And, and it was a Saturday night match. And, and I was the headliner, you know, and like that was really unique as well, and maybe stressful, you know, deep down, and maybe the culprit of you know, the the anxiety attack that I had on the court for the first time that night. It was a pretty stressful match as well, Giles Simon is a guy that can make your stress, your stress, pulling all your hair out during a match so so, you know, so anyway, so I got through that. spent a couple hours in the hospital or the doctor's office that night, you know, at 2am or whatever that we finished in at the US Open there and you know, went home and sort of went back to the hotel and you're sort of thinking like, Well, how am I going to a I'm going to feel like crap the next day because I'm not just not going to sleep and you know, I'm going to sleep a little bit and even if you're not even hungover you don't sleep and you wake up and you're just like my body feels like crap. Like I'm out of it. Well if that happened with anxiety disorder, you are freaking out you are you are waiting for that moment that ball to drop or that moment to happen. And you're worrying about that moment to happen and certainly it did happen but I spent the entire day didn't go out to back to the site didn't play tennis that day. I felt like I needed to look after myself and my body and whatever and let's just try and get our mind right and just you know let's play Federer on Labor Day Monday you know the match the moment the the spot you wanted to be into you know, you were working so hard to get to right like that I sacrificed so much to get to and I couldn't do it I couldn't go out there and play now I didn't know this I'm waiting for my for the car to you know transportation to come pick you up they'll pick you up in a cool Mercedes or something like that. And so you know, just sort of waiting at the hotel and just not doing well you know, anxiety attack after things I can't get out of, you know, it's happening every five minutes if you know, lasting a long time kind of thing. And so Thankfully, my wife was with me in the car because it's someone and I mentioned her because it's someone who didn't grow up around the lifestyle of sport. You know, she wanted to she was grew up out here in LA. So she went to Beverly high and UCLA and UCLA law school and didn't leave a three mile radius from her house and you know, kept stay very close with her family and I left home at 15 years old. So we live different lives. She didn't understand the mentality of never quit, never show weakness, never show fear to your opponent or to anyone, which is how we grew up as athletes. And certainly as tennis players, you can't show emotion Don't show negative emotion to your other, don't show them your tire. Don't show them your pistol, all that stuff, right. So she didn't grow up in that. So she so if she wasn't there, I never would have thought, don't play. And so she leans over, as I'm crying in the car, you know, just I have no idea how to do this. I'm not a crier, either, like, very rare, and, and she says, you know, you don't have to play. And I went in this right away half a second later, this weight just lifted off my shoulders. And I was just like, wow, you're right. I don't actually have to do it. I don't have to play. And like that thought would never have crossed my mind. If she wasn't there. If she had said that. She I never ever would have thought that just because that was how I was not not because like, I don't know why. Because that was how I was trained. My mind was trained just never quit. Never give up and always try hard. Right? And so, and I did those things, you know, throughout my career, I wasn't the best. I wasn't in the best shape. But I tried hard. And I never quit.

Daniel Kiernan  56:55

Just if you had played that day, what do you think would have happened?

Mardy Fish  56:59

I don't know. I mean, it would have somehow, you know, I would have lost, I would have somehow figured I don't I have no idea. I mean, I would have hoped that I would have felt a little bit better. It's really hard to say to even think back and go, Well, how would how would that have been? How would that have gone. And so I'm thankful that I didn't have to do that, because that would have been, you know, thinking about it would have, you know, would have been a living hell, this literally thinking about that. So. So that was sort of the course in 2012. And, you know, came home a few days after, couldn't, couldn't get on a plane right away, came home a few days after and was able to start the healing process. And that, you know, kind of fast forward to, you know, sort of the end of the beginning of you know, talking about this Netflix documentary that started the healing process to where I could get somewhat of my life back and that took a year or yours to do. Mental Health will always be a part of my life and people who deal with severe mental health issues whether it's, you know, panic, anxiety, depression, bipolar, you know, a lot, there's a lot of stuff there. Those people will always say like a like a alcoholic, that's recovering alcoholic, right, like the, they'll always be on guard. They'll always be ready. They live every day is a new day, and they start over every day. It's very similar with mental health where you start over every day, and you will win every day and you will beat it every day. But not every day is perfect. And not every day is all cookies and cream. So it took a while to figure out and develop the tools necessary to combat it. The medication took a little bit to kick in, and I was able to sort of fight and get my life back. And the reason why I was so outward about telling my story is going through it. I'm a huge sports fan and growing going through it. I never really had a success story to lean on where I said to myself, Oh, I remember that basketball player that golfer that tennis player or whatever. And they he had some struggles with mental health or he or she and came out with it and talked about it took them away from the game and and then they got back and they were they got back into the fire and they were able to compete again at a high level. Once I was able to step back on the court at the US Open in 2015. I scheduled that to be my last tournament that was the last time I had been to the US Open was 2012 when I pulled out of the match against Roger. So 2015 was a really really important time for me, but not a lot of people understood it or knew it even I did come out with a piece of in the players tree Have you seen that I wrote that had a little bit of what I had been going through and what I will continue to go through. But, but apart from that my friends didn't really know how bad it was they knew I was off the tour, but not you know, just not how how bad I was and how in bad shape I was, and how the fact that if I didn't have the support step system that I had, if I didn't have my wife, who was a total Angel during that whole process, I didn't have that. There's no talent, if it would be here, let alone where I'd be. So. So I look at people with mental health, they have gone through mental health, people that commit suicide, suicide rates, so even suicide rates during a pandemic, like we're going through right now, where a lot of people are struggling, it gives people hope that I had those types of thoughts, where am I going to hurt myself? Am I going to hurt someone else? And I got out of those thoughts and was able to not only get out of those thoughts, but get back in and play at a fairly high level back at the US Open where all of that came to a head and and I wanted to share that success story with people because I didn't have one when I was going through it.

Daniel Kiernan  1:01:13

Amazing story and well done on on sharing it in and sharing it here on the podcast as well. I, I have two questions on it. And I'm very conscious of your time, I have to do with a quick fire round with you at the end, we can't have control the controllables. Without that. The two the two questions that that jumped to my mind. One is why why did you wait three years to talk about it publicly? It's

Mardy Fish  1:01:41

a great, great question, easy answer. Because that was the time when I was comfortable openly talking about it to strangers to being I was open to being vulnerable to loved ones. Yeah, that was that was fairly easy for me. And that's really important in mental health issues being vulnerable. You know, telling loved ones how you feel, but telling complete strangers how it felt took some time. So that that was why

Daniel Kiernan  1:02:08

do you think big if we take about Now obviously, we've had Naomi Osaka that spoken publicly about it, you know, as it as she was having her her episodes that happen then also Simone Biles at the Olympics, you know, we've had some really high profile people do you think? Do you think now that it's becoming normalized for people to discuss it? Do you think even if it had been 2012 Not that long ago, but but actually the the landscape of how we view mental health I think has changed a hell of a lot. If we go go back to 2012 kind of wasn't the done thing? Do you think it would be easier for an athlete like yourself, going through that to be able to be open on it now than it was 10 years ago,

Mardy Fish  1:02:55

I certainly would have been able to say why I wasn't playing at the time. Because I wasn't able to do that. I couldn't say and not play this match because I'm having anxiety and I'm having severe anxiety and it's my mental health that I'm protecting again, like that, that would have been like unheard of back then. Honestly, it's the stigma of having mental health issues. We call it mental health. It's part of your brain it's a chemical serotonin leaves your brain it's part of your brain, which is part of your body. I know they call it mental health, it seems like physical health to me. It's just help taking care of your body taking care of your mental health, your physical health is your health. And so yeah, I mean, look, I I became much more comfortable and much more open when I was able to you know, when I was able to talk about it again, with get with strangers, but I, you know, it would also be remiss to say that there were a lot of athletes that were coming out and saying they were having issues. At that time there really weren't I mean, I did come out with the piece and the players Tribune and they did talk about it during the US Open there where I played a couple matches and they talked about it while I was playing and I did have some people reach out to me after that, that I still have made friendships for life with Fortune 500 CEOs, athletes that you and I have heard of that I had never met in my life reached out and said thank you and and that I hope you're doing okay kind of thing and all of them, you know, for the most part I've kept in touch with to this day.

Daniel Kiernan  1:04:44

And my last question before the quickfire round over the last six, seven years, has there been any more episodes of that level of intensity with your mental health since

Mardy Fish  1:04:59

not To the extent of 2012. August, no, you know, now, if you say, you know, let's just say August two or july two, you know, 2014 probably, you know, kind of late 2014. Since then I've, you know, again, you, you develop, like I mentioned, before you develop the tools, you get the, you get a great, so there's three things that I think are super important that I want people to understand on mental health that don't understand it, and don't know and haven't been around it. Number one, support system, a one, like just the most important thing, right? Like you have to be able to talk about it and tell people how you're feeling what you're feeling like and be vulnerable with with someone anyone therapy and medication slash doctor, right, like someone that can prescribe a medication to get you over the hump like that. Very important. Someone that will teach you how to develop the tools that is necessary to develop to change the narrative on your, on your mental health. When you're when you're going through an episode changing the channel, on your negative thoughts, things like that, you can develop the tools to do that. And then And then finally, talking about it being open with everyone being open and honest. Understanding that you're not alone understanding that there are 10s of millions of just Americans that deal with mental issues and mental health issues every single day knowing that you're not alone and that you will beat it is the third and final thing.

Daniel Kiernan  1:06:51

Mardy, you have been above and beyond coming on to speak to me today. And and I think, you know, the messages that you give, are gonna impact so many people, you know, that's, that's been my motivation behind these podcasts, you know, to put a smile on people's face to energize them, educate them in different areas, entertain them in different areas, but, but but also to get these strong messages out there. And, you know, there's going to be a hell of a lot of people that are going to listen to this and, and I'm sure there's going to be a big percentage of them that are going to really, really benefit from from hearing your story from hearing your words. So thank you so so much. But before you go, I have to because the listeners will kill me if we don't do the quick fire question. So it's up to you how quick you are. What does control the controllables mean to you?

Mardy Fish  1:07:52

Controlling the controllables to me means controlling things that are repeated it you're in control of but I'll give you examples. Okay, so like, let's let's take into tennis, okay, like there are only so many things that you can control. And this is good for a junior player or parents to understand as well. There's only so there's only a few things that you can control. In professional tennis or high level tennis, there's three things in my opinion, there is your attitude. You can control your attitude and control how you act on the court, right? You can control your effort, you can control how hard you work, how hard you try and never quitting and you can control and third and finally you can control your fitness you can X that part out you can say I'm gonna walk on this court and I am going to be the fittest tennis player in the world or the fittest athlete in the world or in your mind the fittest athlete in the world and that's where I got myself to where I was like this I am and whether I was or I wasn't didn't matter to me because it didn't matter at all because I thought I was so you can control your attitude your effort and your fitness. Love

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:05

1. Love it. Your favorite Grand Slam

Mardy Fish  1:09:09

I mean we talked about it the US Open I do love Wimbledon they're all unique in a certain way the US opens the one that if you said you have to win we can only win one I would win the US Open God I love going down to Australia. I just loved it we I said to my wife the other day like Don't you miss you know that even that flight like just miss getting down there? And she goes Yes, I miss it so much. So even that one this is the happy slam doesn't seem so happy right now but it was the happy slam for the players and and really easy for all the players and everything. So

Daniel Kiernan  1:09:43

I miss it a lot as well. We need to we need to have a deal that will meet for a beer in Melbourne over the next couple of years at some point January 2023 January 2024.

Mardy Fish  1:09:55

I'll do non alcoholic beer though since I don't drink but I do like to taste I'll

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:00

go with you on that as well. Driver or putter.

Mardy Fish  1:10:06

Driver although man if I if I didn't know how to putt maybe I'd be playing with these guys that are playing right here instead of as I can hit it fine but I can't put it

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:17

Forehand or backhand.  Backhand  Serve our return.

Mardy Fish  1:10:23

Serve it's your in control.

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:26

ATP Cup or Davis Cup. Davis PTPA or no

Mardy Fish  1:10:36

Ray question Reiko Who am I going to alienate from some friends like isn't there a no that Masek or Roger? Honestly, I don't know enough to be I mean, that's kind of a cop out it. Oh, let me just pick one. I'll go. Oh, you

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:53

said you have political? Yeah, right.

Mardy Fish  1:10:56

No, not non p p TA or whatever the hell they call the

Daniel Kiernan  1:10:59

fact that you don't know what it's called is. That means you're not on it. There you go. Did you ever make it up with Frank Dancevic? Which?

Mardy Fish  1:11:09

Yeah, I mean, I think so. I mean, look, he's the Davis Cup captain for Canada. At least he wasn't 2019 We played Canada. I love Frank. I think Frank was an is an awesome guy. I thought he was a better player than he thought he was like he was he was good. athlete. And a phenomenal and one point the guys made fun of me because and this was before we had our little little match that we played again, you know what you're talking about in 2010? Where like, I would say like Frank Dan's vision of top five athlete in on the tour, and the you know, and like Andy and James and these guys, and maybe, you know, what are you talking about? I'm like, dude, trust me, this guy is a phenomenal athlete. So I had a ton of respect for Frank. It was just that moment, and you're gonna have to go and watch the documentary what we're talking about but in that moment, that had to be done in my mind and the rest is history. So I will beg for Frank's forgiveness forever if he doesn't give it to me I'll I'll live but but I do love Frank

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:17

Clay court or hardcourts hardcourts medical timeout or not.

Mardy Fish  1:12:23

Yeah, medical timeout is you know you need sometimes guys really need it. And if you felt like the guy would abuse it and tell him you thought it would abuse it because I did that plenty of times too. I probably did that to Frank.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:36

Roger roger or Rafa.

Mardy Fish  1:12:41

Man I can't I mean, I just can't I mean, I like them both in so many different ways. You know? How about Roger poetry in motion on grass Rafa poetry in motion on clay.

Daniel Kiernan  1:12:59

Let's take Serena, Serena or Venus.

Mardy Fish  1:13:05

Love and both as well. I'm going to go with Serena because she was my partner in Hopman Cup. And we want one

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:14

2008 2001 that I still got

Mardy Fish  1:13:18

this this diamond encrusted tennis ball it's a coolest trophy. And I'll always have that I that Serena and I won a match or won a tournament together so I'll go with Serena on this Super

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:29

Bowl winners 2022 the Minnesota Vikings they're not in it law. So this year oh this time okay. Next

Mardy Fish  1:13:48

go with the rams that rams have to home games now.

Daniel Kiernan  1:13:51

I want my boy I'm an LSU I went to LSU you see so so I'm a joy burrow he's my boys

Mardy Fish  1:13:57

I burrow and Jamar chase but you also like my guide just in Jefferson Yes

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:01

exactly. Yeah there's there's a lot there's a lot of the LSU boys wonder why you in scrubs gear such that's why yeah that exactly there's that there's the link what one rule change you would have in tennis

Mardy Fish  1:14:17

So long pause on a podcast. We

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:20

can edit it we get you're gonna sound smooth on this one don't worry. Let's see

Mardy Fish  1:14:31

NO to NO three out of five and Wimbledon doubles. Very, very, you know kind of minimal or whatever. But why don't we play three out of five when when when everyone else plays two out of three. Let's play two out of three. So everyone wants to play Wimbledon doubles. I didn't play Wimbledon doubles a ton because of the only because of the two out of three out of five sets in doubles.

Daniel Kiernan  1:14:54

And think about this next one carefully because it's it's in the small print that you are responsible for the answer to this. You're responsible for bringing this person on. Who should our next guest be on control the controllables. Okay,

Mardy Fish  1:15:11

how about someone non tennis, but really loves tennis like have you had how many of those types have you had in terms of like,

Daniel Kiernan  1:15:21

a couple? We've had a couple. I mean, I'm thinking look, I mean, you're you're a big name here, Marty for this podcast. You know, I think I'm thinking you can start opening some doors here. You know, we're

Mardy Fish  1:15:32

Not look I was I was thinking, you know, the best tennis playing golfer just because I love you know, over the love for golf is Sergio Garcia. So how about we try and get Sergio on next. He was a groomsman in his wedding. He's one of my best friends. Oh, wow. And is an incredible tennis player. Incredible tennis. But I still think and if you get him on there in our, in our, you know, in our sick little minds, we think that there are rankings for tennis and golfers both back and forth. He thinks he's number one because of his tennis game, and obviously his golf game and I say I'm number one with my tennis game and then my golf game. So I don't know how we can put that to bed. It seems like we could fairly easily do that. I think I would crush him in tennis. And I could hang somewhat in golf. And that's why that's why I'm number one in the world in tennis golf rankings.

Daniel Kiernan  1:16:32

Well, we need to get this happening. So my tennis academy is in a place called Sutter grand in Spain, which Sergio which Sergio will know very well because he actually spends quite a bit of time down here because because we're surrounded by the most beautiful golf courses in the world. So we've got Valderrama where they had the 9097 Ryder Cup and and then and then also reality sort of grande Finca quarters. And so this sounds like this event could happen. The tennis happens, it's sort of tennis academy. The Golf happens at Valderrama, you know, we'll host it, you know, we'll if you can get says you on, we'll discuss it with him. And I think we've got an event to happen.

Mardy Fish  1:17:13

If there's some sort of equal sort of scoring system that we can come up with where like a six one set equals like a six up win in golf or something like that, then I'm 1,000% in because I am beaten his but

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:28

also Marty fish, you're you're a top man, it's been an absolute pleasure to speak to you. Thank you so much. You get back to the golf and the rest of your day. You take care of yourself. And thank you so much.

Mardy Fish  1:17:42

Thanks so much for having me. Dan's pleasure. Well, that was

Daniel Kiernan  1:17:45

Pretty cool. Wasn't a Maori fish coming on control the controllables episode 150. We've been promising him for a while. And boy, your boy did he deliver. So hope everyone enjoyed that. And as always, I've got Vicki next to me. Now my first thing, Vicki, is not really going to get Sergio Garcia on the show is he

Victoria Kiernan  1:18:08

Thought you were gonna say on the golf course in Sato. I was like trying to keep you off there with them would be hard. Well, I've

Daniel Kiernan  1:18:15

Actually I've been dreaming about it. And actually, I want to get the copyright for this because running a golf stroke tennis event to see who's the number one golf stroke tennis player. I think there's an unbelievable idea. So if there's anyone out there that's got a bit of backing God knows about TV rights and all of these things. I actually think this potentially could be a gore, I

Victoria Kiernan  1:18:39

Can already hear the debate. Is it harder to transfer to tennis if you're a golfer? Or is it harder to be a tennis player moving over to golf, which is a more technical sport, we could debate that for the next 20 minutes alone. I thought that was such a powerful episode, Marty speaks so well. So candidly. So honestly, there's so many takeaways I have what were your key to three from that episode.

Daniel Kiernan  1:19:05

He's from Minnesota, I think is is something when he said that it really resonated with me when he said Minnesota Nice. You know, I like when people like me, and I think that would be a big, big thing, not just in the episode, actually, even in my discussions before, you know, I've been in touch with Marty for six months now. And we've been talking on WhatsApp and just every interaction I've had with him. He is just a really sound dude. You know, there's not a there's no heirs nor graces. So I would say that is a massive, massive takeaway. I think take that then into his into his tennis. I think there's a few things here. I think we're all in a rush. We're all in a rush to become a tennis player. He was number seven in the world. Yet at age 15. He was number 49 in Florida. Now Florida is a state in the United States. For those that don't know that, so it's not even a country, you know, it's a state within a country, within a continent within the world, you know, and he made it to number seven in the world. I think that was incredible. And I think that also, I think you picked up on this as well, Vicki, when we spoke about it. Age 28. He said, I finally got it. Now, most people have packed their their rackets away long before they turn 28. You know, this is a sport of resilience, of resistance of perseverance, and, and all of those things. And I think those were big things that I took from it as well.

Victoria Kiernan  1:20:35

Yeah, we've talked about that before, haven't we? How many players are still going 28, and how often the rewards actually can come from persevering with your career. You know, we just had Rohan Bopanna on the show not too long ago, talking about how he won his first Grand Slam in his 30s I thought Marty was very open about his whole attitude around his tennis, and how it took him until 28. To realize like how important the physical side of things was, but not just realizing that but also putting the time, the hours the effort and the energy into that to really turn his tennis around your wallet

Daniel Kiernan  1:21:09

One of the big things I remember my coach John Willis, a big shout out to John who was who was incredible. He told me this when I was 10. And let's say I was ranked 150 in in the country at the time. He said, If you work really hard for the next 12 months, you'll overtake 20 players, and 15 of them will stop. And now your age 11 Yeah, and you ranked 115. Then the next year, he worked really hard you overtake another 20 and another 20 stop you now 75 And I don't have to keep going on. But he said the same thing. And that is the sport of tennis. And I think it's not just the sport of tennis. I think that's the the life that we live, you know, you keep persevering. You keep doing your best every single day. You keep being Minnesota nice to people. And and you don't go too far wrong. Or

Victoria Kiernan  1:21:59

Yeah, I mean, look, it helped him to weld number seven, but he said didn't how it changed his life since he's now us Davis Cup Captain, it's affected, you know, the quality of his life. But the other key moment that I've been thinking about since listening to or chat with him was the impact of his wife on him. You know, how he told about the moment when they were in the car on the way to the match in the US Open. And he was really struggling. And she turned him and said that, you know, you don't actually have to play the match and how that would never even occurred to him. But

Daniel Kiernan  1:22:30

I think that opens up a massive debate. And I don't think it's for for today's podcast, I think it's it's really important that, that people like Marty have brought this to people's attention. Because I think back back in the day, it was just that suck it up, get on with it. That's, that's how it was. And if we take an instance, like this, there's health issue that has come Marty's way, if he's been in a position where he's never been able to express his emotions and express how he feels, all that's doing there's that's building up, it's building up, it's building up. And that leads to, to an injury, just like it would physically, you know, if you don't stretch, if you don't tension release, then then what will happen is there'll be a certain part of your body, which will which will have an injury, and I don't see it any different, really between physical injuries and mental injuries. You know, we all have to have ways of looking after our own welfare, we have to be able to express how we're feeling. Yes, we want to create tough athletes, you know, people that are able to have resilience, but at the same time, they have to be able to open up and I just told a story like Marty Fisher's story. And there's there's many that are starting to come out now can really inspire the youngsters to make them feel that they're able to talk, they're able to be open about it. And I think arguably the best thing that Marty did said he said a lot of amazing things is look, this isn't about mental health. This is about health in general. And I think the more that we think about the brain as a part of the body, and its injured and needs work on the better and the less stigma that will be attached around these issues.

Victoria Kiernan  1:24:16

And like he said his story gives others hope you know, he's inspiring people who are in a similar situation to him at the moment and and he said himself when he was going through it you have no one to look up to. There was no one in a similar situation. And you know, people can now watch his documentary, hear him talk on on podcasts like this and say, You know what, if microfiche can do it, I can him telling his story is normalizing anxiety disorders. It's normalizing mental health battles and you can still be successful

Daniel Kiernan  1:24:47

100% And I think my last thing to say before we go into our exciting 100 and 50th Episode giveaway here at Salt or tennis and control the controllables normalizing as A strategy in any walk of life is powerful. I think if we, if we feel we're not alone, and someone else is feeling what we're feeling, all of a sudden, that reduces the way that we have the anxiety and the stress and the difficulties that we have. And I've talked about a lot on this podcast. It's like the pandemic when the pandemic first hit, nobody could work, not nothing, nothing quite went the way that our normal life did. But all of a sudden, everyone was in the same boat. So it became normal. So I hope these stories go out far and wide. But I want to pass over to Vicki who's going to give you a little bit on how to enter our big giveaway. And we are giving away a full access training week at Sato tennis academy. It'll be a great opportunity to get you guys on the courts, with all of our players at the academy and amazing coaches. So come on the Vicki how how do we enter? How do we enter the big the big giveaway?

Victoria Kiernan  1:26:02

Okay, so there's three steps. So we've put this in the show notes, just so to make it really clear. So you need to follow CTC dot podcast and Sato tennis on Instagram, like a post on Instagram, and tag three friends in the comments under the post. So like our accounts on Instagram, like a post on Instagram and tag three friends in the comments below. You also get a bonus entry if you share one of our stories on Instagram. Are

Daniel Kiernan  1:26:33

you telling me the people that are still listening to the very, very end of our conversation at the end of such an amazing guest that aren't already following us on Instagram? Come on. Yeah, these are the diehards that have made it all the way to the end. But a big thank you to you all if you are still listening. I love the episode. I hope you did too. My next guest is Dan Smith has to Dan was a was a bright young British player who got up to 200 in the world ATP. He's also been a big part of the coaching team for Joe canta and is now working very closely with the next group of talent back across in Great Britain. And Dan said to me thanks Matt for putting me after Marty fish. But I can assure you that every guest has their own special way. They're special messages and Dan's no different there's so many takeaways. He's he speaks incredibly well and there's another fantastic guest. So look out for that one next week. More coming your way. But until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables