Oct. 6, 2026
The Real Reason We Keep Putting It Off Featuring Dana K. White of A Slob Comes Clean
Procrastination often looks like laziness, but Dana K. White says the real problem is usually overthinking. We try to solve the entire project in our heads before taking the first step, turning a manageable task into an imaginary maze of problems.
In this episode, Dana sits down with Heather and explains how to start when a project feels too big, why “project brain” causes us to fizzle out, and how working with your actual brain is more effective than trying to become a completely different person. They also talk about a really profound discovery about why we don't like to get rid of clothes that don't fit, and what to do if you have a problem wanting to keep every "good bag" or "good box."
Listen to Dana's previous interview on Compared to Who? podcast here.
In this episode:
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Why starting with a huge project often leads to burnout and unfinished work 04:25
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The smallest step you can take when the entire task feels overwhelming 05:03
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How simply looking at the situation can break the cycle of overthinking 06:26
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Why making a plan should come after observing and experimenting, not before 09:17
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The role of “noncommittal experimentation” in finding what actually works 10:40
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Why trying to become a different, more organized person keeps us stuck 13:19
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How decision-free steps create momentum before the hard decisions arrive 17:06
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Why decluttering clothes can involve grief and the end of a season of life 19:43
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How to clean out a closet without starting with the most emotional items 20:40
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The practical question that helps with good boxes, bags, jars, and other useful clutter 26:19
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Why every space in your home is a container with a limit 28:38
Key takeaway:
You don’t have to become a different person to get things done. Start with what’s actually in front of you, take the smallest decision-free step, and let reality shape the plan.
Check out Dana's brand new book on procrastination here.*
*Amazon affiliate link.
Connect with Heather and Compared to Who? and learn about the many free resources here.
Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.
00:00:02
Speaker 1: Life Audio.
00:00:03
Speaker 2: Do you procrastinate or do you have a collection of bags or boxes that you just can't seem to part with? Does your house feel like a mess sometimes? Oh, friend, if any of these things resonate with you, you are going to love my guest. Today, my guest is Dana K. White. She has written a number of books on decluttering and organizing your home. And now she has a brand new book on procrastination. But she's a sweet Christian friend who lives down the street from me. Well, a couple hours here in Texas. And she's a treasure of information and knowledge. If you are the kind of person who has read other resources on these things and not gotten anywhere with them. I think you're really going to enjoy our interview and stay tuned to the end because I interviewed her once before. It was a really popular episode. It was probably five years ago or more. And she dropped the truth bomb that had really seemingly nothing to do with cleaning out one's closet. But the truth bomb she dropped. That was so powerful. I even quoted her in a book. So stay tuned. You're going to want to listen for that. It was so insightful. Well, hey, if this is your first time to listen to the Compared to You podcast, I'm Heather Creekmore. I'm your host. I've written a number of books. I talk a lot about body image, comparison. I've got a devotional on aging. And we here at Compared to You just want to help encourage you to grow as a Christian woman and to not get stuck in some of these places. that so many Christian women get stuck, like body image and food issues and comparison issues and all of that. If you're interested in learning more about what we do here at Compared to Who, I hope you go to improvebodyimage.com and you can find out about all the things. You can access our more than 500 podcast episodes, find all my books. I've got YouVersion reading plans. And I'd love to have you sign up for my weekly newsletter too. And you can give me a little free gift if you go do that. So go to improvebodyimage.com. Thanks for listening. Well, let's get to today's interview. Dana White, welcome back to the Compared to Who podcast.
00:02:21
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on. This is so much fun to get to see you again. I feel like it's been forever.
00:02:25
Speaker 2: It has been forever. And I should have looked up the last time you were on the show because it was a while ago. But we're going to actually go back and talk about one of the things we talked about because it was so good. And I got so much great feedback from it. In fact, I wrote about it in my 40-day body image workbook because your perspective changed me. And so I can't wait for us to talk about that again. I'm excited to hear what it was that I said. Oh, it was so good. I hope you remember it.
00:02:54
Speaker 1: I probably don't, but go ahead.
00:02:55
Speaker 2: But before we jump into all the things, I would love... for the audience just to know a little bit more about you. I mean, you've been writing books. Well, first you started writing under a pseudonym. You didn't even use your real name, but you're writing books about being messy or how to be less messy. And oh my word, you're speaking my love language from the very beginning. Do you remember you and I spoke at the same event in Dallas? Yeah. Now that you say that, like 13 or 14 years ago, it was a Dallas Moms blog event. Yep. And I don't think you even had your name on stage. You were just a slob comes clean. Or I just remember there was this like mysterious aura to who is this person. So will you just kind of like tell us a little bit like, okay, what happened? How'd you get started? And what have you been up to in the last decade?
00:03:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, really.
00:03:52
Speaker 3: So 17 years ago in August, I started what I thought was a temporary. anonymous blog about getting my house under control because I wanted to be a writer and I felt like I needed to figure out my house first because my house was an absolute disaster and it always had been. And I had tried and I had tried and I couldn't seem to do it. So I thought, okay, I'll use this as a way to stay focused and then I'll stop writing about that.
00:04:20
Speaker 1: And then I'll write about something else. And here we are. And I still write about the same thing.
00:04:24
Speaker 3: Because, um, I realized that, um, I'm not the only one out there. You know, in the beginning, I wasn't teaching anything, but as people started to read it, they were like, this is how my brain works.
00:04:36
Speaker 1: Teach me what you're doing. And I was like, absolutely not. Why would you want to learn from me? That makes no sense.
00:04:41
Speaker 3: And then several years in, as I got things figured out, I realized that the missing piece that I had never been able to find was somebody to explain how to go from like legit disaster to okay, this is how this works, you know? And so that was like most people who would write about these things, write about it because they're naturally organized and they enjoy it. And so their brains work very differently from mine. Um, and so they were, you know, imagining this starting point and I was like, oh no, no, I'm way back from that starting point. So, um, so yeah, I teach that and I've, this is my sixth book that's coming out, um, or maybe has already come out at the point when this releases, but And I've shifted into procrastination because I realized that as I developed a decluttering process, as I learned how to face completely overwhelming situations and get started and keep going and get through to the end, I realized, oh, what I've actually been doing is beating procrastination. What I've actually been teaching is how to beat procrastination. And so I've taken what I've learned. And I've put it into a process that can apply to all sorts of things, not just clutter and home.
00:05:58
Speaker 2: Amazing. I can actually see on the other side of my computer, my dining room, which is filled with, wait for it, Legos. The kids are too old for Legos. They're worth something. But man, I started so... well, Dana, I mean, I like have my little photo booth. I'm taking pictures. I'm listing. And I probably made it an hour. And then I was like, this isn't fun anymore. And so now they've been on my dining room table, maybe two months. It's so embarrassing.
00:06:34
Speaker 1: No, it's very, it's very normal. And I don't know if you would jump into the procrastination. Yeah, let's do it.
00:06:41
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
00:06:41
Speaker 3: But, you know, the reality is that That is a huge project. We, and I'm speaking for myself as a procrastinator, we tend to be project brained, meaning like I'm going to do this, this, and this. And yet in a lot of situations we fizzle because we started huge and we went ahead and pulled out every single Lego and covered the entire table. And we were like, I'm going to do this whole thing. And then we fizzle. And then the next time you're like, well, I fizzled last time. I got to gear up more energy this time. I've got to really, really be a different person than I was last time. And instead to say, okay, what is the actual smallest thing I could do? If you were in the situation you were in before, it would be different, but let's look at it as it is right now. There's the table is covered in Legos, right? What's the smallest thing that I could do that I already know would have to be done if I was ever to complete this project.
00:07:44
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:07:45
Speaker 3: And so I'm going to go in, I'm going to say, I'm going to list one thing. So I'm not saying that today is the day I'm going to finish this. I'm going to say, what's the thing that's already kind of packaged up and photographable.
00:07:58
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:07:59
Speaker 1: Here it is.
00:07:59
Speaker 3: I'm going to do this one item and I'm going to do that. I'm going to get it all the way listed and I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to put it in the thing that I'm going to ship it in or whatever, you know, and I'm going to do that. I'm going to have that ready to go. It's going to be labeled and that one's going to be done.
00:08:12
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:08:13
Speaker 3: Because if I do that, then I can stop at any time. Knowing I can stop at any time is the thing that makes me willing to get started. Okay. And then I go one item at a time and then Because the reason that you're not getting.
00:08:24
Speaker 1: Back to it is you're like, that's a huge project. I failed at it last time.
00:08:32
Speaker 3: What do I have to do differently this time to not fail at it?
00:08:34
Speaker 1: And it just grows and grows and grows in our mind.
00:08:37
Speaker 2: So are you secretly trying to get me like a dopamine hit from doing one where I'll be like, yes, I did one.
00:08:42
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a dopamine expert, but yes.
00:08:46
Speaker 3: I mean, like that's, you know, well, actually, if we go back into my, the very beginning of my anti-procrastination process, the first step is just to look like non-committal because it's been growing in your brain, right? Like you're looking at it right now, but it's also been growing, like all the things that that's going to involve. So instead you go and you look and you say, okay, all I'm doing right now is just looking. I am not attaching something to that. Like I'm not going to look and finish. I'm just going to look and see like, what do I already have done? Which things were already packaged up? Which things have I already taken pictures of? I just didn't Well, I'm just going to look and see so that I know, and that removes the unknown.
00:09:28
Speaker 1: And it gets me started.
00:09:29
Speaker 3: Like it's a legitimate step of the process, even though it feels like that's too unimportant to count.
00:09:34
Speaker 1: But if I don't do it, I can't actually start. So I'm going to count that as a real thing.
00:09:38
Speaker 3: And then I'm going to do the easiest things and say, what do I already know would have to be done?
00:09:42
Speaker 1: Well, I would have to, you know, put the, so it's, it's a process for sure.
00:09:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. One, like, I don't know if you get into this in the book necessarily, but like what's really the obstacle in our heads, right? Is it just that this is just too big or? or is it that it's going to take too long because I know like when I've thought about cleaning out the closet for example it's like oh that'll take too long but then when I do it I'm like okay that was really only like three or four hours you know it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be like what's what's going on in our heads There's.
00:10:17
Speaker 1: A lot of stuff.
00:10:18
Speaker 3: A lot of it is overthinking. A lot of it is trying to solve the problem in my head before I actually do anything in a, out of a desire to not waste any time out of a desire to be efficient. I need to go ahead and figure out exactly what I'm going to do, predict every single problem and solve every single predicted problem before I start trying But when we haven't actually started, it's all in our imagination. And then it can grow and grow and grow and grow more complicated, which gives us endless numbers of problems that could happen that we need to solve, which keep us from starting. So instead to say, I'm going to break that overthinking by going and looking at my actual situation and counting that as success. So I talk a lot in the book about all the different reasons why we procrastinate, but a lot of it boils down to overthinking.
00:11:16
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I know, I know my audience, because you guys are a lot like me. We are great overthinkers, fabulous overthinkers, like A plus students when it comes to overthinking.
00:11:29
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
00:11:30
Speaker 2: Me too. Me too.
00:11:31
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:11:32
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah.
00:11:33
Speaker 3: So like, for example, the fourth step in my anti-procrastination process is to make your plan.
00:11:39
Speaker 1: Okay. Fourth step. Fourth step.
00:11:42
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:11:43
Speaker 1: And so just knowing that makes a lot of people go, wait, what?
00:11:46
Speaker 2: No.
00:11:46
Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: Plan is step one.
00:11:48
Speaker 1: I have to make a plan before I start.
00:11:52
Speaker 3: And I'm like, but making a plan before you've actually even looked at what you're dealing with.
00:11:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:12:00
Speaker 3: We feel like we're doing something by making this big, complicated plan.
00:12:05
Speaker 1: And if that works, great.
00:12:08
Speaker 3: But if you're procrastinating and yet you've been making a plan for the last six years on how you're going to do this, then that making a plan is not working. So instead, we go and we look at our actual situation so that by the time we make a plan, we know what we're dealing with.
00:12:27
Speaker 1: Step two is to go ahead and do the things that I already know would have to be done if this thing was ever to happen.
00:12:32
Speaker 3: And so, okay, I'm going to go ahead and do those things.
00:12:35
Speaker 1: As I do that, I'm not procrastinating anymore.
00:12:38
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:12:40
Speaker 3: I'm in the middle of it. So I actually know things. I am learning things as I go. And I'm making the whole overwhelming thing that I've been procrastinating on smaller because I've just done things that I already knew had to be done. So the next step before we make a plan, the step three is noncommittal experimentation. It's to say, I'm going to get in there. I'm going to experiment with some things. I'm going to experiment with, you know what, I'm going to put these three small Lego sets into a group to list together. I'm going to just see if that, if what happens, you know, I'm not saying that I'm gonna do this with all of them. I'm going to just see what happens. And maybe that gets it out a lot faster. Maybe it makes the price go higher. I don't know, you know, like, but I'm, I'm not committing. I don't have to know everything before I start. I don't have I'm not saying this is the right way. I'm not saying I'm ever going to do it this way again. I'm noncommittal, but I am experimenting. And the things that I learn through facing my actual situation by looking, I get so much done just by doing the easy stuff. I noncommittally experiment. I actually am learning what this problem is like and how to deal with it. By the time I make my plan, I'm a different person because I'm in the middle of it. I'm no longer imagining things. I actually know things. I know things that work. I know things that don't work. And the thing I'm making a plan about is so much smaller and.
00:14:18
Speaker 1: Less overwhelming than it used to be.
00:14:20
Speaker 3: So the plan I'm making is based in reality as opposed to in my imagination, my overthinking imagination.
00:14:28
Speaker 2: That's really good because I'm thinking, of course, that applies to every tangible house project. But I'm thinking like even when I wrote the 40 Day Body Image Workbook, I started it with a quiz kind of for the same reason. Because it's like you actually have to see like what parts of your issues are actually your issues before you can go forward. And I just think of how many women I talk to every week who... I mean, we can buy a course on anything on the internet now, right? But it's like, love to buy the plan, download the plan. And then I don't remember where my password and login is for that plan three months later because I got the whole plan. I downloaded the whole plan, but it's like, oh, I wasn't actually ready to have a plan yet because I hadn't done those first three steps you mentioned. So that's really good. That's really solid, Dana. Anything else on procrastination? before we turn, turn gears, like any, like, is there an encouragement you could give someone who's just like, no procrastination is just me. That's my middle name.
00:15:35
Speaker 1: Well, I think, you know, that I called the book procrastinators get stuff done. Because I think it's funny. It's kind of cute.
00:15:43
Speaker 2: Right.
00:15:43
Speaker 3: And it's fun, but also like a big part of it is the identity piece is to realize this is how my brain works. And so often it's, we look at someone doing the thing we want to do. And we think the answer to my procrastination is to not be me anymore.
00:16:04
Speaker 1: It's to be them. And that's not possible.
00:16:11
Speaker 3: And so we, we try to figure out how can I be this different person? How can I be a person who's not me? And because that's impossible, we just kind of spin out in that and never get started. So instead, the reason I said procrastinators get stuff done is like, this is how we do it. Like we accept this is how my brain works. And so this is what I need to do to actually get started instead of maybe somebody who's like, you know, like somebody who runs marathons and they can't imagine not running marathons. And most people who run marathons have had to really work through a lot of things to get to that point.
00:16:48
Speaker 2: Right.
00:16:48
Speaker 3: But if you go, I want to be like that person who didn't have to work through much. They just were like, running marathons is fun. I want to be the person who says that running marathons is fun, you know? And so you're like, I want to be like, and they're like, oh yeah, all you do is you just get up, you know, three hours before everybody else that you know. And you, all you do is you just run and you just do these, you know, just do this. And I want to be that person. But if I'm not that person, which I'm not, And then it's like that advice that I'm thinking, well, if that's how I'm supposed to do it, I can't actually do that.
00:17:26
Speaker 1: And then it feels like it's impossible.
00:17:27
Speaker 3: Instead of me saying, okay, let me look at my actual situation and, you know, move from here in a way that actually works for my brain. And change what you do in a way that works for your unique brain.
00:17:53
Speaker 1: That's what's going to get.
00:17:54
Speaker 3: You where you want to go as opposed to trying to be a different person.
00:17:59
Speaker 2: Dana, that'll preach because I'm just thinking of, I mean, I don't homeschool anymore, but every fall what would happen is that that was going to be the year I got it all together. I was going to become like that homeschool, the Pinterest homeschool mom. everything's going to be organized and labeled and folders. We're going to have assignments and we were going to do things on the hour and we were just going to be a tightly run machine.
00:18:32
Speaker 1: And I'm a creative.
00:18:35
Speaker 2: I don't like to do the same thing two days in a row. And so for me to expect us to be a tightly run machine was never going to happen. But the struggle is real, right? And it wasn't just about homeschooling. I mean, like every September I thought, well, I'm just going to completely get my life together. I am going to eat all the right ways and exercise all the right ways and keep my house organized and clean in all the right ways and homeschool. Like I was just going to be perfect every September. And like by about this time in October, I was so defeated, so done. so discouraged and just kind of gave up, right? Like whatever, I guess we're just going to be the same as we were last year, you know, and then January come around and be like, wait, maybe I'll do it as a January New Year's resolution and the same thing. Right. So I, oh, what you're saying is so good. I think it's so helpful.
00:19:22
Speaker 1: Well, and those, the first three steps are all decision-free.
00:19:27
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:19:28
Speaker 1: And that's, that is so key.
00:19:31
Speaker 3: What can I do without making this big decision? What can I do to go ahead and get moving without figuring a bunch of stuff out? And instead, when I start looking for that, I can find things that I can go ahead and do with making a decision that are then going to make me able to, because there are going to be hard decisions to make along the way. And I will be ready for that and able and already have some momentum because of the decision-free stuff that I've done in the beginning.
00:20:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's so good. That's so good. Okay. So when you were on before, We talked about cleaning out closets. And I think actually maybe the guise of that episode was like, why is it so hard to clean out things that don't fit us anymore from our closet, right? Because I think especially, oh goodness, if you've got any sort of body issues going on, like you hold on to that size whatever pair of jeans or dress from 10, 20, 30 years ago, it's still in there because maybe someday it'll fit again. And it's really hard to get rid of some of that stuff. And you and I had a great conversation around that. And you just stunned me because I think I said, why? Do you remember what you said? Do you remember what you said the why was? You said it was grief.
00:20:57
Speaker 1: And I was like, what?
00:21:00
Speaker 2: And I wrote about that in the 40, you're quoted in my 40 day body image workbook.
00:21:03
Speaker 1: That means a lot, yeah.
00:21:05
Speaker 2: But the conversation we had was, was really about how it's difficult to clean out our closets because we haven't, and I'm, I'm like messing up your words because you said it so eloquently. So I will link to that episode so people can go and listen. Cause it was a great interview. It did really well on YouTube. Like people were really into that conversation. Um, but, But you talked about how like you can't just go in. I mean, in this conversation, I don't remember if that predated Marie Kondo or not. If like everyone is hugging stuff to see what they should get rid of at that point or if that was before that happened. But you talked about how like you, if you haven't processed like that you're in a new season of life, it's really difficult to get rid of those things from the previous seasons.
00:21:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I, I, I'm really, that's, that's the thing.
00:22:02
Speaker 3: So I have my five-step no mess decluttering process, which is what my anti-procrastination process is based on.
00:22:07
Speaker 2: Right.
00:22:08
Speaker 3: And those first three steps, I think they're all of that makes it so hard.
00:22:14
Speaker 1: Right. You're like, what do these clothes represent?
00:22:19
Speaker 2: Right.
00:22:19
Speaker 1: Like, do they represent a time.
00:22:21
Speaker 3: Where either I thought it was never going to go back, you know, and then maybe I've, regained some of the weight or maybe, you know, all these different things can be in that. And my five-step no-mess decluttering process, the reason why it works is that I go ahead and start and I'm like, that is a lot.
00:22:45
Speaker 1: So is there anything else I can do?
00:22:48
Speaker 2: Right?
00:22:48
Speaker 3: Like, is there anything else I can do when I go in? I'm not going to start with those super difficult decisions. Because what I find, yes, what I find when I teach decluttering is that people will say, you know, like, I mean, I'll speak at whatever and I'll talk about decluttering and people are like, oh yeah, like I'm inspired to declutter. And their brain immediately goes to the hardest item in their home. The very, you know, for teachers, it's, I used to teach third grade and I just got moved to sixth grade. And what if I go back to third grade? Should I keep all of that stuff or not? You know, young moms are saying like, I'm not sure if I'm going to have more kids. What do I do about, do I get rid of these things or not? My number one answer is don't start with that. Like whatever the hardest thing is, don't start with that because our brains fixate on that. And then there are all these other things that are not emotional that we could get rid of. So let's say you're going into your closet. My first step is to look for trash. And it is not a matter of you saying, These are things that I really wish I could keep, but I probably should just say that they're trash. That's not what we're saying. We're looking for obvious trash. Is there anything in here that you're like, oh yeah, that shirt is ripped.
00:24:06
Speaker 1: It can go. Oh yes.
00:24:08
Speaker 3: This thing has a huge stain on it that I was hoping was going to magically go away while it hung in my closet.
00:24:14
Speaker 2: Right. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's done that.
00:24:19
Speaker 1: We think this.
00:24:20
Speaker 3: And so it's, it's like, okay, I'm just going to go and look for any, is there any obvious trash?
00:24:24
Speaker 1: What that does is it gets me moving. It gets me started.
00:24:29
Speaker 3: And I'm not using emotional energy because if anything makes me go, huh, I don't know, then that's not what I'm talking about here.
00:24:34
Speaker 1: And I can skip it. I was not doing that right now.
00:24:36
Speaker 3: Okay. And then the next step in the process is, is, you know, the easy stuff. Is there anything that goes somewhere other than here that I already know where it goes?
00:24:46
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:24:47
Speaker 1: Because things drift into our closets, right? Yeah.
00:24:50
Speaker 3: They just, they just end up there and we, you know, but we're not going to have those moments of what is wrong with me?
00:24:56
Speaker 1: Why is there a can of spinach in my closet?
00:24:59
Speaker 3: You know, like, I mean, it doesn't matter, you know, where the can of spinach goes, which, you know, check the date and make.
00:25:06
Speaker 1: Sure how long it's been in there.
00:25:07
Speaker 3: But, you know, you take that back to, the space where you already know where it goes.
00:25:12
Speaker 1: And it's like, I'm doing things to get me moving. But also every.
00:25:16
Speaker 3: Time I come back, that closet has a little bit less in it because I've gotten rid of trash and I've gotten rid of some things that went other places. And so it's gone from overwhelming and me thinking that this is this tackling the closet is also dealing with the, the body issues that I've had or this, you know.
00:25:34
Speaker 1: What I mean? Like, Oh my goodness, this is a big moment. Well, it's a little bit less.
00:25:39
Speaker 2: Hmm.
00:25:39
Speaker 1: And a little bit less. And every time I come back, I'm.
00:25:41
Speaker 3: Like, okay, well, it's not as quite as difficult and big as I thought it was. And so then I go and I say, is there anything in here that's an obvious donation? And sometimes people will say to me, I really struggle with the obvious donations. And I say, you can't struggle with obvious donations.
00:25:58
Speaker 1: Because if you're struggling, they're not obvious.
00:26:00
Speaker 2: They're not obvious.
00:26:02
Speaker 3: And so that means that's not what we're doing here. We'll get to those later in the process. But if you find yourself struggling, then you're like, oh, okay.
00:26:09
Speaker 1: Well, then I need to skip this item. So you move along and you, is there anything? Because when we give ourself permission to say, is there anything in here that can just go straight in the donate box?
00:26:19
Speaker 3: Even if we only get rid of five things, that's a little bit less. It's a little bit less overwhelming. And so I think that wanting to skip ahead to the really hard stuff is so often what keeps us from doing anything at all. We're like, there are going to be hard things. But once I get rid of these other things, I'm looking at these hard things from a position of success, not from a position of being stuck like I used to be, but from a position of, no, I have made legitimate progress and I'm going to count progress as success.
00:26:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. That's good. Okay. So can you tell me, I need a diagnosis from you, Dr. Dana.
00:27:06
Speaker 3: Oh boy.
00:27:07
Speaker 1: Not a mental health professional.
00:27:09
Speaker 2: Why must I hold on to a good box or a good bag? What is my problem?
00:27:16
Speaker 1: So I don't ask why. I just know it's a fact, right? Like it's a fact.
00:27:21
Speaker 3: And part of it is because you're a highly creative person. Like I look at your background and it is beautiful and it is fun.
00:27:26
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on. And it is, no, it's, I love it, right?
00:27:29
Speaker 3: Like you, you have the color, you know, color coordinated books and all that. The reality is that a really good box is a really good box and it's incredibly useful, which is the reason I never ask myself, is this useful when I declutter? Because- I can come up with a use for things that nobody else would see.
00:27:50
Speaker 1: That's so good.
00:27:53
Speaker 2: Right.
00:27:53
Speaker 3: And so if I, here's what I've realized probably in the last couple of years, I've realized that a big problem for me when I would try to declutter and couldn't do it was that I thought that the, the only way to get rid of something was to decide that it wasn't good. Hmm. was to decide that I didn't want it and that I, I, you know, and, and Because that's what a lot of times when people are having these decluttering conversations, they're having an argument over whether something is good or not.
00:28:30
Speaker 2: Right. Well, does it bring me joy? That was the condo method and that didn't work for me. Right.
00:28:35
Speaker 1: Because I am like.
00:28:37
Speaker 3: Well, everything can be useful. Everything, you know, and so I'm, I'm having the wrong conversation there. So I had to take all of that out for me. And instead I say, it's a really good box.
00:28:49
Speaker 2: Great.
00:28:50
Speaker 3: Whatever.
00:28:51
Speaker 1: And I say, if I was looking.
00:28:53
Speaker 3: For a really good box, where would I look for it first? So I'm not saying, do I need a really good box? That's not the issue. The issue is if I was looking for a really good box, where would I look for it first? And then I come up with my answer, which is an instinct. It's not a, I think I should look for it here. No, it's like literally if I was like, I need a good box and I know I've got a good box somewhere. Where's the first place in my house where I would go to look for it? Even if I assume that I'm going to be tearing my house apart for the next five hours looking for this box that I know I have, right? So I'm like, where's the first place where I would look? I go to that spot and I evaluate, is there any room for this box in here? If there's room for it there, then it can stay.
00:29:37
Speaker 1: Great. Because now it has a home. It's not clutter anymore. But if I get to that space.
00:29:44
Speaker 3: And there's no room for it, either because there's other stuff in that space or because I've been putting really good boxes there for the last 10 years. Then I say, well, there's no room for it. So what am I willing to get rid of in order to keep this really good box? And then that's when I go, okay, well, this is a good box, but it's not as good as this one. And so that's going to leave my house and it gives this item a spot. And that one goes in the trash or the recycling.
00:30:13
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:30:14
Speaker 3: And so it's a process way as opposed to a rip it out of my hands way. Because- I used to think that the only way to do this was to rip it out of my hands. Well, if you tell me that you're going to rip it out of my hands, I'm just going to hold on tighter.
00:30:28
Speaker 2: Right.
00:30:28
Speaker 1: But instead it's like, I absolutely, I can keep anything.
00:30:32
Speaker 3: I can keep a really good box, but it has to have a real home. Otherwise my house gets out of control.
00:30:38
Speaker 2: So good. Yeah. So good. I think my husband will become your biggest fan. thank you notes from him. My really good box collection had to move into the garage a couple months ago because it got too big.
00:30:54
Speaker 3: Well, and every space in your house is a limit. So it's like, where's the place where I would look for it that I actually can devote to good boxes because I don't need.
00:31:06
Speaker 3: Every space in your house is a limit. Every space in your house is a contain-er. It's meant to serve as a limit.
00:31:12
Speaker 1: It's meant to contain. And so if this this cabinet.
00:31:17
Speaker 3: Where I would look for really good boxes, I can't keep really good boxes at the expense of my kids having the school supplies that they actually need.
00:31:32
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
00:31:33
Speaker 3: I look at it and so I'm not saying, say that it's a bad box, Dana.
00:31:37
Speaker 1: I'm saying this is a great box. I do love really good boxes.
00:31:44
Speaker 3: But If it's a choice between a good box that I might use one day and my kids having what they need for school, I'm going to choose the stuff that they need for school. And then I'm able to let go of the boxes and go, you are a great box, but I don't have the room. I don't have the space.
00:32:04
Speaker 1: I would absolutely keep this if I could, but I can't.
00:32:08
Speaker 3: I can keep anything, but I can't keep everything and my space be under control.
00:32:13
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so good, Dana. So good. Someone I know got a lot out of that because someone out there has to love a good box just like me.
00:32:22
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, it's a very, like that's one of the most common questions I get. Same thing with good jars, same thing with good whatever, like all these things that could be repurposed. I can absolutely keep those, but they have to have a real home and I have to acknowledge the limits of that space. And then that way, every time I find a good box, it's like, is it a good box or is it a better box than the ones that are already in there?
00:32:47
Speaker 1: Like that becomes the actual question.
00:32:49
Speaker 2: That's so good. Well, Dana, tell everyone where they can get your new book, which I'm sure is all the places books are sold, but just where to connect with you and find all your things.
00:32:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. So you can go to danakwhite.com. Danakwhite.com slash procrastinate is where you're going to find specifically information about this book. But yeah, do you, anywhere books are sold, you just have to put the K in there.
00:33:14
Speaker 2: Otherwise, you're the UFC guy.
00:33:16
Speaker 1: I'm not the UFC guy.
00:33:17
Speaker 3: And I'm such a disappointment if you think that you're getting the UFC guy.
00:33:22
Speaker 1: But yeah.
00:33:24
Speaker 3: So if you search Dana K. White, wherever books are sold, you will find it. So it's in all the audiobook and Kindle and all the e-books and everything.
00:33:34
Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, Dana, thank you so much for being on the show today. I think you've encouraged and helped a lot of us.
00:33:39
Speaker 1: This was really fun. You're always so fun to be around.
00:33:42
Speaker 2: And thank you for watching or listening today. I hope something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. Bye-bye. The Compare To Podcast is proud to be part of the Life Audio Podcast Network. For more great Christian podcasts, go to lifeaudio.com.
Speaker 1: Life Audio.
00:00:03
Speaker 2: Do you procrastinate or do you have a collection of bags or boxes that you just can't seem to part with? Does your house feel like a mess sometimes? Oh, friend, if any of these things resonate with you, you are going to love my guest. Today, my guest is Dana K. White. She has written a number of books on decluttering and organizing your home. And now she has a brand new book on procrastination. But she's a sweet Christian friend who lives down the street from me. Well, a couple hours here in Texas. And she's a treasure of information and knowledge. If you are the kind of person who has read other resources on these things and not gotten anywhere with them. I think you're really going to enjoy our interview and stay tuned to the end because I interviewed her once before. It was a really popular episode. It was probably five years ago or more. And she dropped the truth bomb that had really seemingly nothing to do with cleaning out one's closet. But the truth bomb she dropped. That was so powerful. I even quoted her in a book. So stay tuned. You're going to want to listen for that. It was so insightful. Well, hey, if this is your first time to listen to the Compared to You podcast, I'm Heather Creekmore. I'm your host. I've written a number of books. I talk a lot about body image, comparison. I've got a devotional on aging. And we here at Compared to You just want to help encourage you to grow as a Christian woman and to not get stuck in some of these places. that so many Christian women get stuck, like body image and food issues and comparison issues and all of that. If you're interested in learning more about what we do here at Compared to Who, I hope you go to improvebodyimage.com and you can find out about all the things. You can access our more than 500 podcast episodes, find all my books. I've got YouVersion reading plans. And I'd love to have you sign up for my weekly newsletter too. And you can give me a little free gift if you go do that. So go to improvebodyimage.com. Thanks for listening. Well, let's get to today's interview. Dana White, welcome back to the Compared to Who podcast.
00:02:21
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on. This is so much fun to get to see you again. I feel like it's been forever.
00:02:25
Speaker 2: It has been forever. And I should have looked up the last time you were on the show because it was a while ago. But we're going to actually go back and talk about one of the things we talked about because it was so good. And I got so much great feedback from it. In fact, I wrote about it in my 40-day body image workbook because your perspective changed me. And so I can't wait for us to talk about that again. I'm excited to hear what it was that I said. Oh, it was so good. I hope you remember it.
00:02:54
Speaker 1: I probably don't, but go ahead.
00:02:55
Speaker 2: But before we jump into all the things, I would love... for the audience just to know a little bit more about you. I mean, you've been writing books. Well, first you started writing under a pseudonym. You didn't even use your real name, but you're writing books about being messy or how to be less messy. And oh my word, you're speaking my love language from the very beginning. Do you remember you and I spoke at the same event in Dallas? Yeah. Now that you say that, like 13 or 14 years ago, it was a Dallas Moms blog event. Yep. And I don't think you even had your name on stage. You were just a slob comes clean. Or I just remember there was this like mysterious aura to who is this person. So will you just kind of like tell us a little bit like, okay, what happened? How'd you get started? And what have you been up to in the last decade?
00:03:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, really.
00:03:52
Speaker 3: So 17 years ago in August, I started what I thought was a temporary. anonymous blog about getting my house under control because I wanted to be a writer and I felt like I needed to figure out my house first because my house was an absolute disaster and it always had been. And I had tried and I had tried and I couldn't seem to do it. So I thought, okay, I'll use this as a way to stay focused and then I'll stop writing about that.
00:04:20
Speaker 1: And then I'll write about something else. And here we are. And I still write about the same thing.
00:04:24
Speaker 3: Because, um, I realized that, um, I'm not the only one out there. You know, in the beginning, I wasn't teaching anything, but as people started to read it, they were like, this is how my brain works.
00:04:36
Speaker 1: Teach me what you're doing. And I was like, absolutely not. Why would you want to learn from me? That makes no sense.
00:04:41
Speaker 3: And then several years in, as I got things figured out, I realized that the missing piece that I had never been able to find was somebody to explain how to go from like legit disaster to okay, this is how this works, you know? And so that was like most people who would write about these things, write about it because they're naturally organized and they enjoy it. And so their brains work very differently from mine. Um, and so they were, you know, imagining this starting point and I was like, oh no, no, I'm way back from that starting point. So, um, so yeah, I teach that and I've, this is my sixth book that's coming out, um, or maybe has already come out at the point when this releases, but And I've shifted into procrastination because I realized that as I developed a decluttering process, as I learned how to face completely overwhelming situations and get started and keep going and get through to the end, I realized, oh, what I've actually been doing is beating procrastination. What I've actually been teaching is how to beat procrastination. And so I've taken what I've learned. And I've put it into a process that can apply to all sorts of things, not just clutter and home.
00:05:58
Speaker 2: Amazing. I can actually see on the other side of my computer, my dining room, which is filled with, wait for it, Legos. The kids are too old for Legos. They're worth something. But man, I started so... well, Dana, I mean, I like have my little photo booth. I'm taking pictures. I'm listing. And I probably made it an hour. And then I was like, this isn't fun anymore. And so now they've been on my dining room table, maybe two months. It's so embarrassing.
00:06:34
Speaker 1: No, it's very, it's very normal. And I don't know if you would jump into the procrastination. Yeah, let's do it.
00:06:41
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
00:06:41
Speaker 3: But, you know, the reality is that That is a huge project. We, and I'm speaking for myself as a procrastinator, we tend to be project brained, meaning like I'm going to do this, this, and this. And yet in a lot of situations we fizzle because we started huge and we went ahead and pulled out every single Lego and covered the entire table. And we were like, I'm going to do this whole thing. And then we fizzle. And then the next time you're like, well, I fizzled last time. I got to gear up more energy this time. I've got to really, really be a different person than I was last time. And instead to say, okay, what is the actual smallest thing I could do? If you were in the situation you were in before, it would be different, but let's look at it as it is right now. There's the table is covered in Legos, right? What's the smallest thing that I could do that I already know would have to be done if I was ever to complete this project.
00:07:44
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:07:45
Speaker 3: And so I'm going to go in, I'm going to say, I'm going to list one thing. So I'm not saying that today is the day I'm going to finish this. I'm going to say, what's the thing that's already kind of packaged up and photographable.
00:07:58
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:07:59
Speaker 1: Here it is.
00:07:59
Speaker 3: I'm going to do this one item and I'm going to do that. I'm going to get it all the way listed and I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to put it in the thing that I'm going to ship it in or whatever, you know, and I'm going to do that. I'm going to have that ready to go. It's going to be labeled and that one's going to be done.
00:08:12
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:08:13
Speaker 3: Because if I do that, then I can stop at any time. Knowing I can stop at any time is the thing that makes me willing to get started. Okay. And then I go one item at a time and then Because the reason that you're not getting.
00:08:24
Speaker 1: Back to it is you're like, that's a huge project. I failed at it last time.
00:08:32
Speaker 3: What do I have to do differently this time to not fail at it?
00:08:34
Speaker 1: And it just grows and grows and grows in our mind.
00:08:37
Speaker 2: So are you secretly trying to get me like a dopamine hit from doing one where I'll be like, yes, I did one.
00:08:42
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a dopamine expert, but yes.
00:08:46
Speaker 3: I mean, like that's, you know, well, actually, if we go back into my, the very beginning of my anti-procrastination process, the first step is just to look like non-committal because it's been growing in your brain, right? Like you're looking at it right now, but it's also been growing, like all the things that that's going to involve. So instead you go and you look and you say, okay, all I'm doing right now is just looking. I am not attaching something to that. Like I'm not going to look and finish. I'm just going to look and see like, what do I already have done? Which things were already packaged up? Which things have I already taken pictures of? I just didn't Well, I'm just going to look and see so that I know, and that removes the unknown.
00:09:28
Speaker 1: And it gets me started.
00:09:29
Speaker 3: Like it's a legitimate step of the process, even though it feels like that's too unimportant to count.
00:09:34
Speaker 1: But if I don't do it, I can't actually start. So I'm going to count that as a real thing.
00:09:38
Speaker 3: And then I'm going to do the easiest things and say, what do I already know would have to be done?
00:09:42
Speaker 1: Well, I would have to, you know, put the, so it's, it's a process for sure.
00:09:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. One, like, I don't know if you get into this in the book necessarily, but like what's really the obstacle in our heads, right? Is it just that this is just too big or? or is it that it's going to take too long because I know like when I've thought about cleaning out the closet for example it's like oh that'll take too long but then when I do it I'm like okay that was really only like three or four hours you know it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be like what's what's going on in our heads There's.
00:10:17
Speaker 1: A lot of stuff.
00:10:18
Speaker 3: A lot of it is overthinking. A lot of it is trying to solve the problem in my head before I actually do anything in a, out of a desire to not waste any time out of a desire to be efficient. I need to go ahead and figure out exactly what I'm going to do, predict every single problem and solve every single predicted problem before I start trying But when we haven't actually started, it's all in our imagination. And then it can grow and grow and grow and grow more complicated, which gives us endless numbers of problems that could happen that we need to solve, which keep us from starting. So instead to say, I'm going to break that overthinking by going and looking at my actual situation and counting that as success. So I talk a lot in the book about all the different reasons why we procrastinate, but a lot of it boils down to overthinking.
00:11:16
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I know, I know my audience, because you guys are a lot like me. We are great overthinkers, fabulous overthinkers, like A plus students when it comes to overthinking.
00:11:29
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
00:11:30
Speaker 2: Me too. Me too.
00:11:31
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:11:32
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah.
00:11:33
Speaker 3: So like, for example, the fourth step in my anti-procrastination process is to make your plan.
00:11:39
Speaker 1: Okay. Fourth step. Fourth step.
00:11:42
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:11:43
Speaker 1: And so just knowing that makes a lot of people go, wait, what?
00:11:46
Speaker 2: No.
00:11:46
Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: Plan is step one.
00:11:48
Speaker 1: I have to make a plan before I start.
00:11:52
Speaker 3: And I'm like, but making a plan before you've actually even looked at what you're dealing with.
00:11:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:12:00
Speaker 3: We feel like we're doing something by making this big, complicated plan.
00:12:05
Speaker 1: And if that works, great.
00:12:08
Speaker 3: But if you're procrastinating and yet you've been making a plan for the last six years on how you're going to do this, then that making a plan is not working. So instead, we go and we look at our actual situation so that by the time we make a plan, we know what we're dealing with.
00:12:27
Speaker 1: Step two is to go ahead and do the things that I already know would have to be done if this thing was ever to happen.
00:12:32
Speaker 3: And so, okay, I'm going to go ahead and do those things.
00:12:35
Speaker 1: As I do that, I'm not procrastinating anymore.
00:12:38
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:12:40
Speaker 3: I'm in the middle of it. So I actually know things. I am learning things as I go. And I'm making the whole overwhelming thing that I've been procrastinating on smaller because I've just done things that I already knew had to be done. So the next step before we make a plan, the step three is noncommittal experimentation. It's to say, I'm going to get in there. I'm going to experiment with some things. I'm going to experiment with, you know what, I'm going to put these three small Lego sets into a group to list together. I'm going to just see if that, if what happens, you know, I'm not saying that I'm gonna do this with all of them. I'm going to just see what happens. And maybe that gets it out a lot faster. Maybe it makes the price go higher. I don't know, you know, like, but I'm, I'm not committing. I don't have to know everything before I start. I don't have I'm not saying this is the right way. I'm not saying I'm ever going to do it this way again. I'm noncommittal, but I am experimenting. And the things that I learn through facing my actual situation by looking, I get so much done just by doing the easy stuff. I noncommittally experiment. I actually am learning what this problem is like and how to deal with it. By the time I make my plan, I'm a different person because I'm in the middle of it. I'm no longer imagining things. I actually know things. I know things that work. I know things that don't work. And the thing I'm making a plan about is so much smaller and.
00:14:18
Speaker 1: Less overwhelming than it used to be.
00:14:20
Speaker 3: So the plan I'm making is based in reality as opposed to in my imagination, my overthinking imagination.
00:14:28
Speaker 2: That's really good because I'm thinking, of course, that applies to every tangible house project. But I'm thinking like even when I wrote the 40 Day Body Image Workbook, I started it with a quiz kind of for the same reason. Because it's like you actually have to see like what parts of your issues are actually your issues before you can go forward. And I just think of how many women I talk to every week who... I mean, we can buy a course on anything on the internet now, right? But it's like, love to buy the plan, download the plan. And then I don't remember where my password and login is for that plan three months later because I got the whole plan. I downloaded the whole plan, but it's like, oh, I wasn't actually ready to have a plan yet because I hadn't done those first three steps you mentioned. So that's really good. That's really solid, Dana. Anything else on procrastination? before we turn, turn gears, like any, like, is there an encouragement you could give someone who's just like, no procrastination is just me. That's my middle name.
00:15:35
Speaker 1: Well, I think, you know, that I called the book procrastinators get stuff done. Because I think it's funny. It's kind of cute.
00:15:43
Speaker 2: Right.
00:15:43
Speaker 3: And it's fun, but also like a big part of it is the identity piece is to realize this is how my brain works. And so often it's, we look at someone doing the thing we want to do. And we think the answer to my procrastination is to not be me anymore.
00:16:04
Speaker 1: It's to be them. And that's not possible.
00:16:11
Speaker 3: And so we, we try to figure out how can I be this different person? How can I be a person who's not me? And because that's impossible, we just kind of spin out in that and never get started. So instead, the reason I said procrastinators get stuff done is like, this is how we do it. Like we accept this is how my brain works. And so this is what I need to do to actually get started instead of maybe somebody who's like, you know, like somebody who runs marathons and they can't imagine not running marathons. And most people who run marathons have had to really work through a lot of things to get to that point.
00:16:48
Speaker 2: Right.
00:16:48
Speaker 3: But if you go, I want to be like that person who didn't have to work through much. They just were like, running marathons is fun. I want to be the person who says that running marathons is fun, you know? And so you're like, I want to be like, and they're like, oh yeah, all you do is you just get up, you know, three hours before everybody else that you know. And you, all you do is you just run and you just do these, you know, just do this. And I want to be that person. But if I'm not that person, which I'm not, And then it's like that advice that I'm thinking, well, if that's how I'm supposed to do it, I can't actually do that.
00:17:26
Speaker 1: And then it feels like it's impossible.
00:17:27
Speaker 3: Instead of me saying, okay, let me look at my actual situation and, you know, move from here in a way that actually works for my brain. And change what you do in a way that works for your unique brain.
00:17:53
Speaker 1: That's what's going to get.
00:17:54
Speaker 3: You where you want to go as opposed to trying to be a different person.
00:17:59
Speaker 2: Dana, that'll preach because I'm just thinking of, I mean, I don't homeschool anymore, but every fall what would happen is that that was going to be the year I got it all together. I was going to become like that homeschool, the Pinterest homeschool mom. everything's going to be organized and labeled and folders. We're going to have assignments and we were going to do things on the hour and we were just going to be a tightly run machine.
00:18:32
Speaker 1: And I'm a creative.
00:18:35
Speaker 2: I don't like to do the same thing two days in a row. And so for me to expect us to be a tightly run machine was never going to happen. But the struggle is real, right? And it wasn't just about homeschooling. I mean, like every September I thought, well, I'm just going to completely get my life together. I am going to eat all the right ways and exercise all the right ways and keep my house organized and clean in all the right ways and homeschool. Like I was just going to be perfect every September. And like by about this time in October, I was so defeated, so done. so discouraged and just kind of gave up, right? Like whatever, I guess we're just going to be the same as we were last year, you know, and then January come around and be like, wait, maybe I'll do it as a January New Year's resolution and the same thing. Right. So I, oh, what you're saying is so good. I think it's so helpful.
00:19:22
Speaker 1: Well, and those, the first three steps are all decision-free.
00:19:27
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:19:28
Speaker 1: And that's, that is so key.
00:19:31
Speaker 3: What can I do without making this big decision? What can I do to go ahead and get moving without figuring a bunch of stuff out? And instead, when I start looking for that, I can find things that I can go ahead and do with making a decision that are then going to make me able to, because there are going to be hard decisions to make along the way. And I will be ready for that and able and already have some momentum because of the decision-free stuff that I've done in the beginning.
00:20:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's so good. That's so good. Okay. So when you were on before, We talked about cleaning out closets. And I think actually maybe the guise of that episode was like, why is it so hard to clean out things that don't fit us anymore from our closet, right? Because I think especially, oh goodness, if you've got any sort of body issues going on, like you hold on to that size whatever pair of jeans or dress from 10, 20, 30 years ago, it's still in there because maybe someday it'll fit again. And it's really hard to get rid of some of that stuff. And you and I had a great conversation around that. And you just stunned me because I think I said, why? Do you remember what you said? Do you remember what you said the why was? You said it was grief.
00:20:57
Speaker 1: And I was like, what?
00:21:00
Speaker 2: And I wrote about that in the 40, you're quoted in my 40 day body image workbook.
00:21:03
Speaker 1: That means a lot, yeah.
00:21:05
Speaker 2: But the conversation we had was, was really about how it's difficult to clean out our closets because we haven't, and I'm, I'm like messing up your words because you said it so eloquently. So I will link to that episode so people can go and listen. Cause it was a great interview. It did really well on YouTube. Like people were really into that conversation. Um, but, But you talked about how like you can't just go in. I mean, in this conversation, I don't remember if that predated Marie Kondo or not. If like everyone is hugging stuff to see what they should get rid of at that point or if that was before that happened. But you talked about how like you, if you haven't processed like that you're in a new season of life, it's really difficult to get rid of those things from the previous seasons.
00:21:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I, I, I'm really, that's, that's the thing.
00:22:02
Speaker 3: So I have my five-step no mess decluttering process, which is what my anti-procrastination process is based on.
00:22:07
Speaker 2: Right.
00:22:08
Speaker 3: And those first three steps, I think they're all of that makes it so hard.
00:22:14
Speaker 1: Right. You're like, what do these clothes represent?
00:22:19
Speaker 2: Right.
00:22:19
Speaker 1: Like, do they represent a time.
00:22:21
Speaker 3: Where either I thought it was never going to go back, you know, and then maybe I've, regained some of the weight or maybe, you know, all these different things can be in that. And my five-step no-mess decluttering process, the reason why it works is that I go ahead and start and I'm like, that is a lot.
00:22:45
Speaker 1: So is there anything else I can do?
00:22:48
Speaker 2: Right?
00:22:48
Speaker 3: Like, is there anything else I can do when I go in? I'm not going to start with those super difficult decisions. Because what I find, yes, what I find when I teach decluttering is that people will say, you know, like, I mean, I'll speak at whatever and I'll talk about decluttering and people are like, oh yeah, like I'm inspired to declutter. And their brain immediately goes to the hardest item in their home. The very, you know, for teachers, it's, I used to teach third grade and I just got moved to sixth grade. And what if I go back to third grade? Should I keep all of that stuff or not? You know, young moms are saying like, I'm not sure if I'm going to have more kids. What do I do about, do I get rid of these things or not? My number one answer is don't start with that. Like whatever the hardest thing is, don't start with that because our brains fixate on that. And then there are all these other things that are not emotional that we could get rid of. So let's say you're going into your closet. My first step is to look for trash. And it is not a matter of you saying, These are things that I really wish I could keep, but I probably should just say that they're trash. That's not what we're saying. We're looking for obvious trash. Is there anything in here that you're like, oh yeah, that shirt is ripped.
00:24:06
Speaker 1: It can go. Oh yes.
00:24:08
Speaker 3: This thing has a huge stain on it that I was hoping was going to magically go away while it hung in my closet.
00:24:14
Speaker 2: Right. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's done that.
00:24:19
Speaker 1: We think this.
00:24:20
Speaker 3: And so it's, it's like, okay, I'm just going to go and look for any, is there any obvious trash?
00:24:24
Speaker 1: What that does is it gets me moving. It gets me started.
00:24:29
Speaker 3: And I'm not using emotional energy because if anything makes me go, huh, I don't know, then that's not what I'm talking about here.
00:24:34
Speaker 1: And I can skip it. I was not doing that right now.
00:24:36
Speaker 3: Okay. And then the next step in the process is, is, you know, the easy stuff. Is there anything that goes somewhere other than here that I already know where it goes?
00:24:46
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:24:47
Speaker 1: Because things drift into our closets, right? Yeah.
00:24:50
Speaker 3: They just, they just end up there and we, you know, but we're not going to have those moments of what is wrong with me?
00:24:56
Speaker 1: Why is there a can of spinach in my closet?
00:24:59
Speaker 3: You know, like, I mean, it doesn't matter, you know, where the can of spinach goes, which, you know, check the date and make.
00:25:06
Speaker 1: Sure how long it's been in there.
00:25:07
Speaker 3: But, you know, you take that back to, the space where you already know where it goes.
00:25:12
Speaker 1: And it's like, I'm doing things to get me moving. But also every.
00:25:16
Speaker 3: Time I come back, that closet has a little bit less in it because I've gotten rid of trash and I've gotten rid of some things that went other places. And so it's gone from overwhelming and me thinking that this is this tackling the closet is also dealing with the, the body issues that I've had or this, you know.
00:25:34
Speaker 1: What I mean? Like, Oh my goodness, this is a big moment. Well, it's a little bit less.
00:25:39
Speaker 2: Hmm.
00:25:39
Speaker 1: And a little bit less. And every time I come back, I'm.
00:25:41
Speaker 3: Like, okay, well, it's not as quite as difficult and big as I thought it was. And so then I go and I say, is there anything in here that's an obvious donation? And sometimes people will say to me, I really struggle with the obvious donations. And I say, you can't struggle with obvious donations.
00:25:58
Speaker 1: Because if you're struggling, they're not obvious.
00:26:00
Speaker 2: They're not obvious.
00:26:02
Speaker 3: And so that means that's not what we're doing here. We'll get to those later in the process. But if you find yourself struggling, then you're like, oh, okay.
00:26:09
Speaker 1: Well, then I need to skip this item. So you move along and you, is there anything? Because when we give ourself permission to say, is there anything in here that can just go straight in the donate box?
00:26:19
Speaker 3: Even if we only get rid of five things, that's a little bit less. It's a little bit less overwhelming. And so I think that wanting to skip ahead to the really hard stuff is so often what keeps us from doing anything at all. We're like, there are going to be hard things. But once I get rid of these other things, I'm looking at these hard things from a position of success, not from a position of being stuck like I used to be, but from a position of, no, I have made legitimate progress and I'm going to count progress as success.
00:26:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. That's good. Okay. So can you tell me, I need a diagnosis from you, Dr. Dana.
00:27:06
Speaker 3: Oh boy.
00:27:07
Speaker 1: Not a mental health professional.
00:27:09
Speaker 2: Why must I hold on to a good box or a good bag? What is my problem?
00:27:16
Speaker 1: So I don't ask why. I just know it's a fact, right? Like it's a fact.
00:27:21
Speaker 3: And part of it is because you're a highly creative person. Like I look at your background and it is beautiful and it is fun.
00:27:26
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on. And it is, no, it's, I love it, right?
00:27:29
Speaker 3: Like you, you have the color, you know, color coordinated books and all that. The reality is that a really good box is a really good box and it's incredibly useful, which is the reason I never ask myself, is this useful when I declutter? Because- I can come up with a use for things that nobody else would see.
00:27:50
Speaker 1: That's so good.
00:27:53
Speaker 2: Right.
00:27:53
Speaker 3: And so if I, here's what I've realized probably in the last couple of years, I've realized that a big problem for me when I would try to declutter and couldn't do it was that I thought that the, the only way to get rid of something was to decide that it wasn't good. Hmm. was to decide that I didn't want it and that I, I, you know, and, and Because that's what a lot of times when people are having these decluttering conversations, they're having an argument over whether something is good or not.
00:28:30
Speaker 2: Right. Well, does it bring me joy? That was the condo method and that didn't work for me. Right.
00:28:35
Speaker 1: Because I am like.
00:28:37
Speaker 3: Well, everything can be useful. Everything, you know, and so I'm, I'm having the wrong conversation there. So I had to take all of that out for me. And instead I say, it's a really good box.
00:28:49
Speaker 2: Great.
00:28:50
Speaker 3: Whatever.
00:28:51
Speaker 1: And I say, if I was looking.
00:28:53
Speaker 3: For a really good box, where would I look for it first? So I'm not saying, do I need a really good box? That's not the issue. The issue is if I was looking for a really good box, where would I look for it first? And then I come up with my answer, which is an instinct. It's not a, I think I should look for it here. No, it's like literally if I was like, I need a good box and I know I've got a good box somewhere. Where's the first place in my house where I would go to look for it? Even if I assume that I'm going to be tearing my house apart for the next five hours looking for this box that I know I have, right? So I'm like, where's the first place where I would look? I go to that spot and I evaluate, is there any room for this box in here? If there's room for it there, then it can stay.
00:29:37
Speaker 1: Great. Because now it has a home. It's not clutter anymore. But if I get to that space.
00:29:44
Speaker 3: And there's no room for it, either because there's other stuff in that space or because I've been putting really good boxes there for the last 10 years. Then I say, well, there's no room for it. So what am I willing to get rid of in order to keep this really good box? And then that's when I go, okay, well, this is a good box, but it's not as good as this one. And so that's going to leave my house and it gives this item a spot. And that one goes in the trash or the recycling.
00:30:13
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:30:14
Speaker 3: And so it's a process way as opposed to a rip it out of my hands way. Because- I used to think that the only way to do this was to rip it out of my hands. Well, if you tell me that you're going to rip it out of my hands, I'm just going to hold on tighter.
00:30:28
Speaker 2: Right.
00:30:28
Speaker 1: But instead it's like, I absolutely, I can keep anything.
00:30:32
Speaker 3: I can keep a really good box, but it has to have a real home. Otherwise my house gets out of control.
00:30:38
Speaker 2: So good. Yeah. So good. I think my husband will become your biggest fan. thank you notes from him. My really good box collection had to move into the garage a couple months ago because it got too big.
00:30:54
Speaker 3: Well, and every space in your house is a limit. So it's like, where's the place where I would look for it that I actually can devote to good boxes because I don't need.
00:31:06
Speaker 3: Every space in your house is a limit. Every space in your house is a contain-er. It's meant to serve as a limit.
00:31:12
Speaker 1: It's meant to contain. And so if this this cabinet.
00:31:17
Speaker 3: Where I would look for really good boxes, I can't keep really good boxes at the expense of my kids having the school supplies that they actually need.
00:31:32
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
00:31:33
Speaker 3: I look at it and so I'm not saying, say that it's a bad box, Dana.
00:31:37
Speaker 1: I'm saying this is a great box. I do love really good boxes.
00:31:44
Speaker 3: But If it's a choice between a good box that I might use one day and my kids having what they need for school, I'm going to choose the stuff that they need for school. And then I'm able to let go of the boxes and go, you are a great box, but I don't have the room. I don't have the space.
00:32:04
Speaker 1: I would absolutely keep this if I could, but I can't.
00:32:08
Speaker 3: I can keep anything, but I can't keep everything and my space be under control.
00:32:13
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so good, Dana. So good. Someone I know got a lot out of that because someone out there has to love a good box just like me.
00:32:22
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, it's a very, like that's one of the most common questions I get. Same thing with good jars, same thing with good whatever, like all these things that could be repurposed. I can absolutely keep those, but they have to have a real home and I have to acknowledge the limits of that space. And then that way, every time I find a good box, it's like, is it a good box or is it a better box than the ones that are already in there?
00:32:47
Speaker 1: Like that becomes the actual question.
00:32:49
Speaker 2: That's so good. Well, Dana, tell everyone where they can get your new book, which I'm sure is all the places books are sold, but just where to connect with you and find all your things.
00:32:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. So you can go to danakwhite.com. Danakwhite.com slash procrastinate is where you're going to find specifically information about this book. But yeah, do you, anywhere books are sold, you just have to put the K in there.
00:33:14
Speaker 2: Otherwise, you're the UFC guy.
00:33:16
Speaker 1: I'm not the UFC guy.
00:33:17
Speaker 3: And I'm such a disappointment if you think that you're getting the UFC guy.
00:33:22
Speaker 1: But yeah.
00:33:24
Speaker 3: So if you search Dana K. White, wherever books are sold, you will find it. So it's in all the audiobook and Kindle and all the e-books and everything.
00:33:34
Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, Dana, thank you so much for being on the show today. I think you've encouraged and helped a lot of us.
00:33:39
Speaker 1: This was really fun. You're always so fun to be around.
00:33:42
Speaker 2: And thank you for watching or listening today. I hope something today has helped you stop comparing and start living. Bye-bye. The Compare To Podcast is proud to be part of the Life Audio Podcast Network. For more great Christian podcasts, go to lifeaudio.com.
