Pedaling Legends, Epic Adventures

Tahverlee [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Bike Life podcast by Warmshowers Foundation, where we will be sharing knowledge, experience, tools, and stories of touring cyclists and hosts from around the world. I'm Tahverlee, the woman behind the scenes at Warmshowers Foundation, the leading platform for cyclists looking for hosts and to connect with a passionate international community. Find out more by visiting us at warmshowers.org. Now, on to the show.

Jerry Kopack [00:00:40]:
Hey, everyone. This is Jerry Kopack, the host of bike life coming to you from the Rocky Mountains at Breckenridge, Colorado. Today, I'm gonna check back in with a couple long time cycling legends, Ken Francis and Philip Robinson, and see what new adventures they're scheming. Gentlemen, welcome back.

Philip Robinson [00:00:56]:
Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Ken Francis [00:00:58]:
Thank you, Jerry. Good to be back.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:01]:
So you guys are on the show back in late twenty twenty four. And for those who maybe didn't get a chance to listen to that first episode, can you give me a little bit of a bio on your years of bike touring, maybe how you guys met, or some of the cool places you've been together?

Ken Francis [00:01:17]:
I think to start with, I've been bike touring since I was, like, 13 years old and did a couple cross country trips in the eighties. In fact, I'm coming up on my forty year anniversary from the first time I rolled out of my parents' driveway to ride across The United States from LA to Boston. And I I had companions with me, and things didn't always work out on those trips because, you know, you've gotta have a right match. And so I actually started doing just, like, week two two week trips by myself for several years. And then with the dawn of the Internet, I was in a chat room, and I met somebody, Philip Robinson, who was a bicyclist. And I was planning a trip in the Pacific Northwest near where he was. And I knew that he also biked, so I invited him on a trip. And that was in 1998, and we have been traveling together ever since.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:15]:
I, I love that you said chat room because that brings back some memories because I am of that era where I remember chat room. Some people who are listening to this may not have any idea what you're talking about, but I thank you.

Ken Francis [00:02:30]:
Yeah. Go ahead, Paul.

Phillip Robinson [00:02:32]:
Oh, yeah. No. I met Ken, through a chat room like he said, and our first trip was from, Spokane up to at least for me, it was Spokane to Banff in that area and then, actually, Calgary. Ken went on from Calgary back down to, I can't remember where he went to. We'll just say Spokane. And, but, yeah, that was my first self supported bike trip. Before that, I was doing supported bike tours, with my sister and her husband, throughout Oregon. So I did that for maybe five, six years.

Phillip Robinson [00:03:05]:
And, so that's that's a lot of fun. But self supported as a whole different element versus having a sag wagon and a caterer at the end of the at the ride for dinner and all that kind of stuff. So, but, yeah, ever since then, we've done a number of trips, and they really have all been just, they've all been a little different, but they've they've all been excellent. So I can't thank Ken enough for them.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:29]:
So how many miles, how many miles did you guys have, have probably ridden together? I know that's kind of a trite question, kinda cliche, but do do you keep track of miles or just keep track of adventures?

Ken Francis [00:03:42]:
Both. I'd have have to I'd have to look up and tally everything together, but I know we've done, I think, 25 trips together.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:48]:
Okay.

Phillip Robinson [00:03:48]:
Yeah.

Ken Francis [00:03:49]:
Over the years, we did the first trip in '98, and I think we took a year off. And then the the next trip was an Idaho trip from Spokane down to Boise. And then it was like, okay. First of all, let me backtrack a second. The first trip we did, Philip only committed to the first stop of the trip because he didn't

Tahverlee [00:04:10]:
know if

Ken Francis [00:04:10]:
I was gonna be an ax murderer or not. Because remember, chat rooms early on, you didn't know who you were talking to. So he only committed to the first week of the trip, which was up to Calgary. I did from Calgary to Missoula by myself. But Philip realized at that point that I was an okay person and that he really liked doing this. Yeah. So the next trip was a week trip in February. And then in 02/2001, we rode from, just North of Astoria over the bridge down to San Francisco, and that was a two week trip.

Ken Francis [00:04:43]:
And I think in the beginning, one of the things that we were really plotting was kind of like, what parts of the country were interesting that would, have a lot of nature, really good camping, kinda rugged. So our early trips were a lot more nature based and a lot more national park centric.

Phillip Robinson [00:05:03]:
Yeah. A lot more camping. That's for sure. But, yeah, my first trip, I met a friend up in Banff. And so we were to sort of poke around the Banff and Jasper area and all that kind of stuff. And, it sort of worked out. It sort of didn't work out. But in hindsight, I thought I really should have stayed stuck with Ken for the rest of the trip.

Phillip Robinson [00:05:23]:
But, you know, here we are, you know, twenty five years later still enjoying still enjoying riding. So

Jerry Kopack [00:05:30]:
So you guys were were intentionally looking for for cycling partners then? It wasn't just like this serendipitous thing, or was it?

Ken Francis [00:05:38]:
No. It was serendipitous. I I think I always were looking for other cyclists because one of the things that I have learned is you cannot take a non cyclist and turn them into a cyclist. They will be miserable, and they will make you miserable. So I've learned that you really for that, Ken?

Jerry Kopack [00:05:57]:
Did you have an experience?

Ken Francis [00:05:58]:
I've had several experiences. The the guy that talked me into going cross country with him, he he, you know, hey. Let's ride to Chicago. And as it was, it was he was, like, the third person in a week to ask me to do a really long trip. So I just kinda said, you know, forget it. Let's just go all the way cross country if we're gonna do that. And even though he was the one that talked me into the trip, it was his idea. He was miserable every single day, and he lived in Chicago.

Ken Francis [00:06:29]:
And when he got to Chicago, he stopped. And if anybody is interested in this journey, because a lot of it has to do with my growth, me dealing with other people, me trying to to balance my own serenity on the bicycle when I'm dealing with other people that have problems. I have chronicled my early trips. They don't have a book too, Jerry. So my book's, Great Rides Across America, Open Road Adventures and Mr. Tour. And a lot of the the first trips with those people in the struggles, really come into play. So with meeting Philip, it was just kind of like, hey.

Ken Francis [00:07:05]:
You're a cyclist. I'm a cyclist. I'm gonna be heading out of Spokane. You live in Seattle. What do you say about doing this? And, you know, him saying, I'm gonna commit to a week. I'm thinking, okay. Well, that might be safe too because if things don't work out, I've got another week of peace. But things really, really, did work out.

Ken Francis [00:07:24]:
And I never guessed that we would be doing this, you know, twenty five years or so later.

Phillip Robinson [00:07:33]:
Yeah. I hadn't really expected that either, but, it's I look back. It's for me, it's more about the adventure and and just the experience versus the miles. Although, I have to say the mileage, the daily mileage anymore is it keeps going down every year as my age keeps going up. But, it's, you know, it's all good. You have to sort of, you know, reset your goals and reset your expectations and, and just go with it.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:01]:
So I I know that from listening to the to the prior episode, Ken had sort of this sort of, figment or attention or obsession with, like, a hundred mile ride day. Is that still a thing? Do you guys care about that?

Phillip Robinson [00:08:14]:
I can. Right? But, that's, I'd I'd have to have a tailwind in all downhill. Yeah. I I could probably do a hundred mile day, but it would you know, it's, I haven't done one of those in a while.

Ken Francis [00:08:27]:
The obsession was if I've got, like, 96 miles in. Sure. It's like I've gotta get the extra four in Jamaica to century. And I call these rides death marches because sometimes when we look at what we're gonna do, it's like, yeah. I think we can do this in a week. A good example would be Iceland. Iceland, we thought we could do the Ring Road in two weeks, and it wasn't until we got to Iceland and saw how windy it was and the conditions were not conducive to do it in two weeks that we kinda had a change in the style of the way that we toured, which kind of has, changed since then, which was that was 02/2015. So ten years ago, our styles have changed a little bit since Iceland.

Ken Francis [00:09:11]:
But, yeah, I keep telling myself I'm not gonna do these death marches. And last June, we had a day in Canada that was, I think, 85 miles into a direct headwind. And that was one one of those days where we were questioning what we were doing and looking to see if there was anywhere to stop, before our intended journey because that that was a hard day. And the older you get, the harder those days get.

Phillip Robinson [00:09:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Ken Francis [00:09:39]:
Yeah. And I'm I'm right now, I'm packing. I'm leaving tomorrow, and I'm I'm hoping not to do another death march. I'm I've got a kayaking trip planned next weekend outside of Las Vegas. So I thought, why don't I just ride my bike to Vegas? I'm not working right now. I work for an organization, and we've been on strike for five and a half months. So I'm not working. I have the time.

Ken Francis [00:09:58]:
Yeah. So it's like, why not just hop on my bike and ride to Vegas? But I'm gonna take care of myself. I figure if I don't make it all the way there, when my friends are driving with the kayaks to to go to the river, they can scoop me up along the way if I don't make it all the way there. So, it's it's all about knowing your limits and respecting your limits, pushing yourself a little bit. But but still, as we get older, we have to realize that our limits change, and we have to respect that.

Phillip Robinson [00:10:26]:
Well Yeah. And for and for me, I don't ride all year round. You know, I'm living here in the, you know, Seattle area. It's the weather really isn't conducive. I mean, granted, there are a lot of people that do ride all year round, but I do other things in the winter like skiing. And, and then kayaking is another thing that I really enjoy. So, I have to catch up. You know? I have to start, like, about now to sort of catch up for the summer rides that we've done and, you know, summer and fall rides.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:55]:
Well, so so talking about those adventures. Right? So who's the mastermind on these, these crazy capers that you guys come up with? To to fill up do you seem like you might be the brains of this or maybe? Like, you come up because you're kinda you're kinda quiet and, like, Ken has all the ambition and, like, I could see Philip sort of just sitting behind the scenes just sort of plotting. Like, hey, Ken. I have an idea, and I can just see Ken just running with it. But is that not

Phillip Robinson [00:11:18]:
no. I would say it's almost the opposite. You know? Ken pretty much has some definite ideas, and I do too. And once we get into something, you know, I certainly will speak up, you know, just to sort of help things along. So, I mean, a good example of that was is, you know, Ken wanted to do a coaster in Poland, and I thought, you know, I don't really wanna go there. But, you know, when we got to Berlin, I decided that, you know, we I'm gonna make sure he gets there. And so times like that, you know, I'll sorta help things along and get them going and make them happen.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:50]:
So So I wanna pause there. You set a coaster in Poland. What what are we what are we talking about?

Phillip Robinson [00:11:55]:
There's a theme park that Ken wanted to go to outside of Krakow called Energylandia. And, Ken's a lot more into coasters. You can tell you all the stats on them and things like that. But it, but, anyway, it's like we're in Berlin, and it's like, okay. What do we do next? Well, we go to Poland. So and we did. And so, we packed up our bikes and got them on a train. And, you know, seven, eight hours later, we were in Krakow.

Phillip Robinson [00:12:21]:
And the next day, we were had a really fantastic theme park. I have to say that was I was rather impressed with it. So but then we find our way back, and then we're back on the bike and doing, you know, bike kind of things. So there

Ken Francis [00:12:35]:
That's part of the shift that we had. So, I thought that I was getting to the point where I was, like, the end of my my road and not gonna be doing much touring, and I had a Warmshowers guest who stayed with me who said, Ken, you should go to Iceland. Go to Iceland. And I called Philip up and said, what do you think? Crazy idea. And Philip said, let's do it. So when we got to Iceland and realized how windy it was and we weren't gonna be able to see as much as we had planned, somebody suggested that we use their bus system and do a hybrid trip. So that really is kinda where things started where we were able to use the bike and see the things that we wanted to see and then use the bus to kinda get us through some of the places that, might not been as scenic and to help us save time. So the next year, we did the Rhine River.

Ken Francis [00:13:24]:
And the second day out, it was the trail was going through the woods, and there wasn't really anything to see. There were no towns. There was no scenery. It was just trees. And I looked at the map and noticed that we were going by Europa Park, which is the biggest non Disney theme park in Europe. So I said to Philip, I go, what would you say if we took the day off tomorrow to ride roller coasters and then just took a train through, like, some of the bigger cities so that we can, you know, bypass kind of the parts that we don't wanna see? And Philip said, okay. We'll do this. And we made it to Europa Park.

Ken Francis [00:14:02]:
The first roller coaster in the door is Silver Star, which is their tallest roller coaster. So Philip, who hadn't been on a roller coaster in many, many years, all of a sudden, he's on this, you know, ginormous roller coaster that's over 200 feet tall. And I think that really just kinda changed things for us, the way we traveled at that point.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:20]:
Interesting. So if I haven't been on a roller coaster since 1992. I remember this because I was in high school, and I grew up in Michigan. And there is a theme park called Cedar

Ken Francis [00:14:34]:
Point. Adventure? Oh, Cedar?

Jerry Kopack [00:14:36]:
No. Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio.

Ken Francis [00:14:38]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:38]:
Yeah. And I

Tahverlee [00:14:38]:
never been on

Jerry Kopack [00:14:39]:
a roller coaster either. And so all the kids from my high school would do this. They would drive down and go on the roller coasters. I thought, cool. I wanna be part of that cool kid group. So I went and did that. Let's just say it wasn't for me. So I haven't had a roller coaster since.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:53]:
Philip, what about you? Are are you into roller coasters? Do they do they treat you well?

Phillip Robinson [00:14:58]:
They do, but I have to be careful because I'm on some, medication that sort of affects my blood pressure. And so you really all of a sudden, where Ken can go on a two the same coaster two and three times, I I'm about good at one or two. And then after that, it's like, okay. This isn't feeling so good. But I will say at least, when you'd go on one the first time, they're a lot of fun, and it's, I sort of, got to like it because being a skier, you're going down I'm not a, like, a park skier or anything like that, but you're sort of going down, you know, steep hills and things like that. And it's really not a lot of different there's not a whole lot of difference. Well, obviously, there is, but I can see the parallel with skiing and coasters. So I've been able to embrace them fairly well.

Phillip Robinson [00:15:44]:
But, anyway, they're a lot of fun. They can be, but I just have to be careful.

Ken Francis [00:15:48]:
So instead of doing plotting of trips where we used to, like, think of national parks and, the other thing that we do is we kinda play connect the dots. So we're trying to, like, connect different roads. And this is this is my version of connect the dots right here. If you can see this, these are the roads that I've done in The United States. And, so, like, one of the things that we decided we were gonna do last year was let's let's let's ride our bike around Lake Erie. And what is on Lake Erie, but Cedar Point. So, yes, we spent two days at Cedar Point riding roller coasters as with Canada's Wonderland, which is up in Toronto and Six Flags Darien Lake and, Waldameer. So, yeah, so we hit all the roller coasters.

Ken Francis [00:16:31]:
So I think what we do now is I kinda look for where the roller coasters are, and Philip tends to look at where the museums are. So we really kind of both try to, to to do what we both wanna do. I love museums not as much as him just like he loves roller coasters, not as much as I do. So we're able to find a balance with that. And Philip really can plot and find those museums.

Phillip Robinson [00:16:55]:
Well, a good example is, I'd never been to Toronto before, and Ken wanted to do a second day at Canada's Wonderland. So I just took the train into Toronto and poked around there. And it was a lot of fun. I, you know, I had a good time on my own. And then after leaving Toronto, we got to Niagara Falls, and, it was a really super hot day. And Ken met up a friend who's another coaster fan, and they wanted to do I think it was Six Flags, Ken. Is that right. Yeah.

Phillip Robinson [00:17:24]:
And I thought, yeah. No. I think I'll just go into Buffalo. And so I went on to Buffalo and met Ken down the road. So we're we have we know when to be flexible and how to meet up and all that kind of stuff. So it worked out just fine. So

Ken Francis [00:17:44]:
We had a trip planned a couple years ago when we're going from London to, Amsterdam. And Philip had an accident and wasn't able to ride his bicycle. But he had planned the London part of the trip. He had all the museums. He had everything planned. So it's like, Philip, okay. Even if you don't do the bike ride, you have to meet me in London because you planned that part of the trip. And that worked out really, really well.

Phillip Robinson [00:18:08]:
Yeah. It it did. You know? All of a sudden, I'd never been to London before, and, talk about a cool town. I had a really good time. I woulda had even better time if I coulda done the ride with Ken, but, no. It was, it's a really an amazing town. If you've never been to London, you gotta go. So especially if you like theater, which I do.

Phillip Robinson [00:18:28]:
So it's a great town for that too.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:31]:
I I love how you call it, like, just casually. It's like some town called London. Yes. Yeah. Right.

Phillip Robinson [00:18:37]:
Yeah. It's huge. Right. It's like I barely scratched the surface, but, anyway, it, had a good time there. But Ken also had a great time. Looking at what Ken did on the rest of his trip, it's like, okay. I could have gotten into that. So I have to say I've sort of embraced Europe more for cycling than I initially thought of.

Phillip Robinson [00:18:57]:
And I thought, why would I go all the way over there to go from the bike ride when I can do it here? But, their infrastructure over there is really pretty cool, and it's, it's, not that we're not bike friendly here, but it's definitely definitely more bike centric there. That's for sure.

Ken Francis [00:19:14]:
It's fun being with the Warmshowers hosts in Europe as well, especially especially if they're hosts that either of us have hosted here in The United States. That really makes it special when, you know, we're celebrating that reciprocity.

Phillip Robinson [00:19:29]:
Yeah. So, yeah, Ken, Ken and I have a friend in Amsterdam who Ken stayed with more than I have, but, it's really it's sorta like, when we go back, it'll be like meeting an old friend. You know? Because we sort of pick up where we left off. So

Jerry Kopack [00:19:44]:
I was I was gonna ask if you had cycled through Amsterdam because you talk about cycling communities and networks, and that place is is really set up.

Phillip Robinson [00:19:52]:
Yeah. I know. You never have a problem getting a bike box in that town when

Ken Francis [00:19:55]:
you're ready to fly out.

Phillip Robinson [00:19:56]:
That's for sure. Can't say that about other towns, but that one, yeah, they've got it covered.

Tahverlee [00:20:05]:
Today's episode is brought to you by bikeflights.com, the leading bicycle shipping service and bike box supplier for cyclists. You'll enjoy low costs, excellent service, and on time delivery with every shipment, and you get preferred handling for your high value bikes, wheels, and gear. As a brand built around a love for the outdoors, they are committed to reducing environmental impact, and every bike flight's shipment is carbon neutral. Join the nearly 1,000,000 cyclists who have used bike flights to ship their bikes, wheels, and gear with confidence since 02/2009, and see how easy it is to book, manage, and track all of your shipments. Visit bikeflights.com/warmshowers today for more information and to book your shipment. Now back to the show.

Jerry Kopack [00:20:52]:
So has that been kind of part of your plan to maybe cycle and see some old friends, see some old hosts?

Ken Francis [00:20:58]:
Absolutely. I mean, that's kind of what we're planning for September. Now things in the world are kind of up in the air right now, so I'm not sure exactly what's gonna happen. I know here, I live on a really, really busy route and usually host, you know, couple, two, three dozen, cyclists a year and have not hosted anybody here in Long Beach, California since November. So I'm not sure if that's because politics. I'm not sure if it's because the, road closures up in Big Sur or since the LA fires, Malibu is closed too. So I don't know if it's just not a desirable route. So we're kind of, like, being flexible, but hopefully, the the plan is to to do Europe and to visit our friend in Amsterdam outside of Amsterdam.

Ken Francis [00:21:46]:
This will be my fifth time staying with her. So one showers family as well as a couple in Brussels who, Philip met on a recent trip, and I hosted them here on Christmas day a few years back. And they hosted me, on the London trip a few years ago. So looking forward to seeing them again if possible.

Phillip Robinson [00:22:06]:
Yeah. I've actually hosted two families, which, and they actually had kids with them. And, so they're not if based on what we're gonna do or potentially what we're gonna do, in the fall, I we wouldn't be near them, but it would be fun to go at least say hi to them. And there's another, person that I've hosted and Ken's hosted in Bordeaux, who's really great. He's quite the cyclist, and it'd be fun to go down there, maybe for a warm weather kind of thing in Spain at some point. I'd like to do that. So, yeah, it's a I have to say Warmshowers, the the connection. The one family that I hosted, I was questioning their route, and I thought, you've gotta be kidding me.

Phillip Robinson [00:22:51]:
And then but they sent me a a picture of them on the route, down in the off the Columbia River, New Vantage, and I and they were smiling. And I thought, god bless them and good you know? It was really pretty cool. I really enjoyed that. That was that just really brought it all home. So

Jerry Kopack [00:23:09]:
What was wrong with their route, out of curiosity?

Phillip Robinson [00:23:12]:
They were doing well, it's called the Palouse Cascades route. And from the town of Ellensburg, if you're familiar with Washington, it's on the East Slope Of The Cascades. It can also be very windy there, and it's also pretty desolate. There's really not many services. But, they one of the big things they did, at least the state of Washington, they finished what they call the Beverly Bridge, which, crosses basically South Advantage over to the town of Beverly. And, so they wanted to do that, and I and I did it on my mountain bike a little bit. I was sort of, like, connecting the dots of this trail, and I thought, my goodness. And they're having a little, you know, kid, you know, five year old and a 10 old.

Phillip Robinson [00:23:55]:
They're pretty brave to do that. Yeah. Even to travel with that just so I have to say it was really, it was really pretty cool to see what they did. So but they like, a lot of, people from Europe, they're taking, like, ten months off. We we have this ten month gap time. At least that's ten months sticks in my head for most of them. So, but, yeah, it's it's been a lot of fun hosting hosting people, especially, you know, people with kids and a family. So the other, family, they were from France.

Phillip Robinson [00:24:29]:
They had they were kids with a little older. So, anyway so I was

Jerry Kopack [00:24:34]:
I was

Phillip Robinson [00:24:34]:
can share about them. They don't really wanna be public about it, So I'll leave it at that. So

Jerry Kopack [00:24:39]:
Fair enough. I had something stuck in my head. You were talking about sort of like like hybrid traveling. So maybe you kinda hop on a train for a minute. Maybe you throw out a thumb and you hit your ride, and you cycle the parts that you wanna cycle. Maybe you skip some of the ones that I know have a 60 mile an hour headwind or just not a scenic route. So do you guys have any more hybrid plans to to skip your way through Europe on your trip?

Ken Francis [00:25:03]:
Yeah. That would be kind of what we're thinking about for September. Philip is retired. I'm not retired yet. You know? It it feels this is my preretirement with being on strike. Hopefully, I'll be back at work in the next couple weeks. But, yeah, if Europe is really big and because I can only get maybe two or three weeks off at a time to try to see as much as we wanna see with being time limited, it's it's important to be able to, you know, spend a time in a certain region and then maybe hop on a train just like Philip was saying about, the roller coaster in Poland. We were in Berlin, and I was looking at train.

Ken Francis [00:25:42]:
I think it was, like, an eight hour train ride. And did I really wanna spend two days of the trip on, you know, eight hour train ride? And, you you know, I looked at Philip and said that, and Philip looked at me and shook his head. He said, Ken, I am getting you on that roller coaster. So love the support from him. But when we got there, it was really nice to be able to have our bikes in Krakow because we had time to be able to ride around and explore the city. And then we enjoyed Berlin so much. The original plan was to go back to to Prague or to go to Prague, but instead, we wanted to spend more time in Berlin and maybe Prague on another trip. So we went back to Berlin and rode around there for another day.

Ken Francis [00:26:18]:
And then to make up on time, we took the train, to Hanover and then, of course, rode to Heide Park, which is another theme park. Met one of my friends there for the day and then ended up biking from there to Bremen, where we stayed with an excellent Warmshowers couple there and then hopped on a train and went to Netherlands. So, you know, we still do, like, five to 800 miles on these trips, but we just sprinkle it with some trains in between to kinda get us where we need to be.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:48]:
Yeah. I think that's totally fair. One of my favorite quotes is from Ben Cohen, the founder of Ben and Jerry's ice cream. And he's famous to report as saying, if it's not fun, why do it? Which is something I tried to really employ in my daily life. And so back to your sort of hybrid bike tour, and if we're gonna cycle through dense woods without any views or cycling to a headwind, like, let's just skip it, man. Let's just go into something that we actually enjoy. Like, we're at a certain point where we can take the time or afford to just hop a train or stick out a thumb. It just it makes more sense.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:21]:
Right?

Ken Francis [00:27:22]:
It it does, but I also have another saying too, which is we don't grow when we're uncomfortable. Oh. And, you know, I I'm a therapist, and I tell my patients that we don't grow uncomfortable. And it's my job to make you uncomfortable. And this is why I'm going to Vegas because there might be 25 mile an hour winds through the desert. It's what might be predicted. So I might not get as far as I wanna go, but I'm planning on just wild camping in the middle of the desert. I do have a warm shower showers host, set up a couple nights on Route 66, but I am planning on a couple nights just in the desert.

Ken Francis [00:27:57]:
And I think being off work for for five and a half months, I've gotten a little bit too comfortable, and I need to get outside of my comfort zone to be a little uncomfortable to grow. So I think there's a balance between, you know, making it fun. But anybody will tell you, if you've really done long trips, there are gonna be days that are not fun. And you wanna give up, but you just have to have the hope that, you know, the storm goes over, the wind changes direction, things change, and then all of a sudden, things are back being good again. So I think the balance of the team is important.

Phillip Robinson [00:28:31]:
Yeah. We were on a trip from Flagstaff to ultimate El Paso, and Ken loves to go on the freeway. And, you know, I do too. You know, you can't say no to a 10 foot shoulder. That's pretty good. Maybe it's not the most scenic. But, down in the, you know, Southwest, they're full of blown tire casings with little tire cord wires out there. So one day on that, it's like, I think I had, like, at least four flats, and I have to tell you, that can get pretty discouraging, but it's all part of the learning.

Phillip Robinson [00:29:01]:
And so when you finally get to Albuquerque, you know, plan b is they must have a bike shop here that has, you know, tubes and tires that'll handle these kinds of conditions, and sure enough, they did. And so it's that kind of, pushing yourself and sort of, you know, figuring how to overcome something that that makes really by what it is sometimes. You know? Because there is gonna be times, like Ken was saying, where you do have some adversity, and you just have to push and get through it and push yourself.

Ken Francis [00:29:30]:
Yeah. And thanks to Philip on that trip, he had needle nose pliers with him. So what I was doing was I was stopping, like, every four or five miles and checking my tires and pulling the the beads out before they did any damage. So I didn't have any flats since the first day. And being that I'm planning on riding on Interstate 15 this week, I'm bringing needle nose pliers with me.

Phillip Robinson [00:29:54]:
Yeah. And so being in the Northwest, I have fenders and okay. You know, it's a little hard to to makes it a little more challenging to do what Ken, like, can do without fenders. That's for sure. So So you're

Jerry Kopack [00:30:07]:
are you carrying actual, like, separate needle nose pliers, or are you carrying, like, a Leatherman that has

Phillip Robinson [00:30:12]:
It's Leatherman. It's like a mini Leatherman, like, a real Mini.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:15]:
Wasn't sure if you were, like, carrying, like, an actual toolbox with, like, a screwdriver and needle nose pliers.

Phillip Robinson [00:30:21]:
No. That's what a cell phone's for sometimes. I'm sorry to get him, stuff like that. But it, I, you know, I used to carry spokes, and I would say, why am I carrying spokes? I wouldn't even know how to put them back on the bike. So but, you know, and I don't not to be glib about the whole thing, but, I I can do basics. You know, I my derailleur cable snapped in Iceland, and I thought, okay. I think I've got I've got a onesie up front here. So luckily but you'd all of a sudden, you just your brain sort of kicks in, and you just do it.

Phillip Robinson [00:30:55]:
So

Jerry Kopack [00:30:57]:
Well, so

Ken Francis [00:30:58]:
compliment each other in that too because there was another trip where my my rim liner, the spoke liner, was getting dry, and it was creating flaps, and Philip had electrical tape on them. So, you know, if if if one of us has the knowledge and one of us has the tools or whatever, we complement each other that way. The way it's helped us grow too.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:21]:
So so hearing these things, I I'm I'm curious. Was there ever a time when you thought, like, wow. This is this is bad. How am I gonna get my way out of this one?

Phillip Robinson [00:31:33]:
No? Well, you know, Ken has taught me how to hitchhike on on cycling. You know? And, so sometimes I tell Ken, let's just take the direct approach, and we'll just ask, you know, somebody in a pickup truck. You know? Hi. You know? For $20, can you get me 30 miles down the road? You know? And they sort of look at you with a puzzlement, and they realize that maybe you're not the axe murderer that they might think you might be. So, and we've actually had fairly good luck with that. And then, one time, we were in Colorado, and there was a I worked for FedEx. I went up to a FedEx driver, and he was at the end of his day trying to, you know, finishing his rounds. And so he got us, you know, 30 miles down the road.

Phillip Robinson [00:32:19]:
So Ken likes to say we were delivered by FedEx. So that was a ground driver at the time. So, but so you just it's like those kinds of moments. You know, something about a bicycle and panniers, people seem to reach out to you. If you reach out to somebody, they realize that you're relatively harmless, I guess, is it I hate to use that term. But and so we've really had a lot of kindness from a lot of different people, a lot of strange people over the time.

Ken Francis [00:32:51]:
I had a few other experiences before meeting Philip, like getting hypothermia in Death Valley. You know, when you think of Death Valley, you think of heat. You don't think of you know, it's snowing. But even with those experiences, I know in the long run, I always get Warren going, and that's what I always remind myself. I always get where I'm going.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:16]:
I love that. And so you had mentioned that Philip is retiring,

Phillip Robinson [00:33:20]:
and you're I am retired.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:22]:
You are retired. Sorry. Yeah. Congratulations.

Phillip Robinson [00:33:25]:
Well, thank you. I have been for I'm going on year four now. So

Jerry Kopack [00:33:28]:
Okay. And You're almost through. Ken, you're hoping at some point retire. I'm just curious. What, what what motivates you guys to to keep doing these crazy adventures besides besides coasters? Or maybe that is the motivation.

Phillip Robinson [00:33:42]:
I'll let Ken go first.

Ken Francis [00:33:44]:
Okay. I I think for me, the world is so big, and my life is so short. I wanna see as much of it as I can, and this is my favorite way to travel. You know? I've I've taken planes and rented cars. I've taken cruise ships. But the real way to really experience life, I think, is to be out there in either, you know, human power, whether you're walking or riding a bicycle or kayaking, but the the human power of actually experiencing your world around you. And there's still so many places that I wanna see, so many roller coasters that I wanna ride, people that I wanna meet or see again. I mean, there's just so much out there, and I think that's really what what drives me.

Ken Francis [00:34:29]:
And I really feel alive while I'm doing it because that's another thing too. And the the the planning, the looking forward to it also is something that's very invigorating.

Phillip Robinson [00:34:41]:
Yeah. There's a great sense of accomplishment that at the end of a ride. I certainly enjoy that. And, I think the days of my trying to do, like, a one month, two months, or, you know, one year, that kind of thing are probably behind me. But I can it's easy enough for me well, it's easy enough for me to do, like, a three week or four week. But beyond that, I but I often think about it, but I will say I certainly enjoy the satisfaction. You know, the start where I were, I'm starting here where I'm going. And, you know, it's bike is just a wonderful way to travel, so it's just can't say enough about it.

Phillip Robinson [00:35:22]:
We did an Olympic Peninsula trip this last summer, and, it was sort of like in my backyard. So we could just leave from my house and head out. And, I saw a part of the Olympic Peninsula that I hadn't seen in a really long time. Some of it I'd seen, but it was just different on a bike. And it's you see things differently, and it's, and it's fun and challenging and rewarding.

Ken Francis [00:35:47]:
Beautiful. We reconnected with some, some of my former guests. In fact, we reconnected with my very first Worm Showers guest, the very first person that that rolled through our house. We connected with him and another guest up in Victoria, and we had a couple other really great Warmshowers experiences, staying with people on the route.

Phillip Robinson [00:36:10]:
Yeah. One in Aberdeen, the Aberdeen Hokkien area, which was sort of a surprise there. And, you know, I sort of realized that, you know, one zero one from Aberdeen South isn't so good, but, you know, next time, I think we'll go out to Grays Harbor or not Grays Harbor, but out to Westport and go down that way and, to see some more. But, and it's fun seeing just other parts. And oftentimes, we'll stop at a restaurant, like a local restaurant, and we'll have people come up to us. And, you know, the the question always asks, where do you know, how long have you been out? Where are you going? Where'd you start? And they there's just sort of a there's something about panniers on their bike that seems to allow the friendliness of people to, approach you and engage with. So it's just a fun experience.

Jerry Kopack [00:36:59]:
Yeah. I love it. Well, gentlemen, I wanna thank you so much for taking the time and sharing your stories of inspiration. So how can our listeners connect with you guys and learn more about what you're up to? Ken, how can we follow around with your your new, your kayaking adventure or your Vegas trip?

Ken Francis [00:37:16]:
Couple different ways. I've got a couple accounts on Instagram. Either the intimacygram, which is my kind of more my professional one that's about mental health and kind of like learning how to live positive, keep balance in your life, have great relationships, and overcome trauma. And then Ken Francis on Tour is my other one. And then I have, a YouTube channel, Kenneth Francis World, and another one, Intimacygram. And, I think I'm in my TikTok now too, mister Tour. So we can put a link in the in the the comments for that.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:54]:
We will have we will have

Ken Francis [00:37:55]:
to get in touch.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:56]:
We will have links in our show notes for sure. What about you, Philip?

Phillip Robinson [00:37:59]:
It'd be a little harder for me. I'm, basically just Facebook.

Jerry Kopack [00:38:03]:
Fair enough.

Phillip Robinson [00:38:04]:
I I don't do really Instagram. But if people wanna reach out to me, I'm a host here in Seattle, in the SeaTac area. So I tend to get people who are flying in. Mostly, I'm not on a route. And, so for anybody, just reach out. If they have a question about touring, I'm certainly happy to engage it that way.

Jerry Kopack [00:38:25]:
Got it. Well, I hope you guys have a great adventure coming up. You are welcome back on the show anytime, and we look forward to hearing about those adventures.

Ken Francis [00:38:36]:
Thank you so much, Jerry.

Phillip Robinson [00:38:37]:
Alright, guys. Thanks, Jerry.

Jerry Kopack [00:38:39]:
And I wanna thank everyone out there listening to our conversation with Ken Francis and Philip Robinson. If you enjoy our show, give us a like, a share on your social channels, or maybe just tell your friends. These stories hopefully will inspire you to set off on your own bicycle adventure and maybe make the world feel a little bit smaller, one pedal stroke at a time. My name is Jerry Kopack, and until next time, adventure on.

Tahverlee [00:39:03]:
Thank you for joining us, and we hope you enjoyed the show as much as we enjoyed making it. Wherever you are listening, please leave us a rating and a review as it helps us reach more cyclists and hosts around the world. Visit us at warmshowers.org to become a part of our community or on Instagram at warmshowers_org. If you would like to be a guest on the show or submit a question, please make sure to email us at podcast@warmshowers.org.