Cycling Sparks Creative Connections

Tahverlee [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Bike Life podcast by Warmshowers Foundation, where we will be sharing knowledge, experience, tools, and stories of touring cyclists and hosts from around the world. I'm Tahverlee, the woman behind the scenes at Warmshowers Foundation, the leading platform for cyclists looking for hosts and to connect with a passionate international community. Find out more by visiting us at warmshowers.org. Now, on to the show.

Jerry Kopack [00:00:40]:
Hey, everyone. This is Jerry Kopack, the host of bike life coming to you from the Rocky Mountains of Breckenridge, Colorado. Today, I'm talking to James Crossley, an artist in bike tour who is launching an incredible new project called MiddleGround. Inspired by his own experiences on the road, MiddleGround is a unique artist's residency on a cargo bike designed to foster both human connection and social art projects. Hey, James. Welcome to bike life.

James Crossley [00:01:06]:
Hey there. Great to be here. Thanks.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:08]:
Now where am I finding you today?

James Crossley [00:01:11]:
I'm speaking to you from Rotterdam in The Netherlands.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:15]:
Wonderful. Obviously, an an amazing bike culture where you live.

James Crossley [00:01:20]:
Yeah. It's it's a very special place to live. Every day, I'm I ride my bike around town and into the countryside as well. So very, very lucky to be here with that.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:31]:
I, I was talking I've been to The Netherlands, specifically Amsterdam Several Years ago, and I remember someone talking about, like, what do you do when it rains? Well, you ride your bike. Like, what do you do if the weather's not great? Like, you ride your bike. Do you do you feel like that's true?

James Crossley [00:01:47]:
Yeah. I mean, you you just you you get on with it. It's never it's it's quite a compact country in compact cities, so you're only ever gonna be cycling in the rain for twenty or thirty minutes. And you you wear the right jacket and you get there, and maybe you've got soggy feet for the day, but it's not the end of the world. I'd I'd much rather that than have a a city full of cars and pollution. So it it it works out.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:12]:
Yes. I, I I have goosebumps here when you say that because I feel wholeheartedly the same way. Now what is Middle Ground, and what was the spark that inspired you to create it?

James Crossley [00:02:25]:
So Middle Ground is an it's going to be an artist residency series that's based on a cargo bike. So the idea is that artists will apply to ride this cargo bike, which is equipped for touring. Throughout summer, there's gonna be three journeys, and each artist gets to take the bike and ride around in The Netherlands, beyond The Netherlands, and make art, connect with communities, and kind of make make bridges into areas that they otherwise wouldn't get to. And the the idea behind this came like you mentioned, at first, I've I've done quite a bit of touring, and my art background means that whenever I'm out traveling, I have that as a lens and want to kind of be writing notes, sketching, and then that emerges into projects. So I've I've published my own books and create kind of artwork from the journeys that I do. And, eventually, last summer, I was cycling for a couple of months and felt like this was a a a format that I wanted to take further beyond just my own artistic practice and create something new that I could share with other people and maybe would have a little bit of a bigger impact in a positive way. And that filtered down into what is now middle ground, which is launching very soon.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:51]:
Do you have a a launch date?

James Crossley [00:03:53]:
I do. Yeah. It's launching on the March 10. So I'm I'm not sure exactly when this is being published, but I assume it'll be it'll be in the public already.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:02]:
Yeah. Well, that's a couple days from now, so that's exciting. You must be completely stoked about this.

James Crossley [00:04:09]:
Yeah. I'm I'm very excited. The the tasks that I've got at the moment are a lot of just sort of email outreach. So I'm I'm making my way steadily there, but it feels good that it's out in the world at least partially. And I'm gonna start getting some feedback from from other people and see people reacting to it. So feels really good. I'm excited.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:31]:
So I wanna get into the details of Middle Ground, but first, I wanna talk about the actual art. So as you know, art could take on so many different forms. What kind of artists are you hoping will apply, and what qualities do you think will make for a great Middle Ground resident?

James Crossley [00:04:49]:
I think that the the answer to the question maybe predictably is everything and anything, and the more diverse and expansive the idea of art and artists that apply, the better. The the main goal that I'm I'm trying to achieve is taking artists who generally live and work in in urban centers and getting them out into the countryside, into small towns and villages where there's a little bit of social and political divide between sort of the urban creative scene versus that rural, also creative in many ways, but a different scene also politically. So the art that I'm hoping will will come about is something that's engaging with the communities that artists cycle through. So not making art about them or sketching kind of the the countryside, but meeting people and and building social bridges. So whether that is an artist who goes and finds a village and there's an an old guy who wants to clear out his shed, and the artist uses the actual cargo bike to move all the stuff from the shed and then builds a sculpture with that, maybe that's an an artwork that they could do, or it could be someone who takes a large format camera with them and finds a community who's been living in a place with a long history of industry, and they make large format photography pieces of that community, the people, and stage an exhibition while they're there. So I think it could could go any direction, but I'm just hoping for innovative ideas or, interesting ways or just interest in general in in getting out there and connecting with people.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:38]:
Yeah. And so you're looking for maybe, I don't know, long term or or lasting artwork like a like a sculpture or a mural or don't really care?

James Crossley [00:06:48]:
No. Not necessarily. I think the process for me, both in my own art practice, but also for this, is more important. And the the only, kind of expectation from the artists who are going out who who go on the residency is that they also document what they do. So whether they leave something behind or not, whether the trip totally doesn't go as expected as bike tours can do, and they end up sheltering from the rain, and I don't know what will happen. But as long as there's some kind of documentation and they've, in some way, forged a connection with somebody that they meet through a community that they meet, then I'll be happy. And it's still slightly left to be seen how it's gonna work out at the end of the summer, but my intention is to hold an event or create some kind of digital exhibition or publication that will bring the the three residencies together, in kind of a a format.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:53]:
So you're launching on the March 10. Does that mean you have or have not gotten applicants yet?

James Crossley [00:08:01]:
So I've had some interest, but on the March 10 is gonna be, like, the public launch of Got it. The website and the Instagram and the crowdfunding as well. And that's when I'm hoping the the bulk of people are gonna start discovering the project and when artists will start applying. So there's a form online already where artists can, express their interest in the project, and then I'll be following up talking to them. And I'll also work with a selection committee of other people. So it's not just kind of a a a big ego trip for me, but there'll be other people who are looking at the artists who apply, and then we'll make a selection depending on how many people apply.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:43]:
God. That sounds so exciting. Do you have, any interest yourself about getting out there and partaking in this with a with a fourth cargo bike?

James Crossley [00:08:51]:
Well, there's there's actually only one cargo bike if each artist each artist uses it and then brings it back. And then and the next artist will jump onto the bike and do their trip. So it's Got it. Four three subsequent trips, each probably around four weeks, but totally flexible. Like, because this is the first year of the project and it's all in pilot stage, it may be that I get feedback from artists all saying that's too long or that's too short, then it'll adapt. So I I in answer to your question, I would love to have a go on the on the bike. I've I've ridden cargo bikes a bit, and they're really good fun. And we've, if we've got time, then I'll I'll definitely take it out at least for a couple of overnighters.

James Crossley [00:09:38]:
And, otherwise, yeah, the priority will be getting other artists out because I I I get to do this anyway. I'm I'm lucky that I managed to work to then be able to travel to. So yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:51]:
God. That sounds so cool. So you mentioned that you are a bicycle traveler and an artist as well. Have you had any experiences while touring that maybe showed you the power of spontaneous connections with strangers?

James Crossley [00:10:05]:
I I mean, every day on tour, I I think most people will attest that you can you can have great connections with strangers. The first one that comes to mind on a trip I did last year, so I'm from The UK. I I haven't really spent that much time there since I since I left, but I wanted to go and cycle around a little bit and connect with the country in some way. And I was cycling through Wales. And in Wales, as well as Scotland, there are bothies, which are like I'm not sure what the the North American term would be, like a mountain hut, this kind of thing.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:41]:
Sure.

James Crossley [00:10:42]:
So it's a it's a free hut that you can go and stay in a cabin, and they're out of out of the way in the middle of nowhere, not quite in mountains because we don't have those in The UK and in, the islands, but they're they're off. And I showed up at one in the middle of Wales, and there were a few guys already there kind of cooking up and and relaxing. And I found out quickly that they were the caretakers of this particular hut. And they were there on a work party, which is like a a weekend where they go and fix up the hut and kind of do any chores, look after things, tidy up a little bit. And then I ended up spending a couple of days with them, and we rebuilt the fireplace. So I got to learn how to mix cement and put in a new stove. So that that was quite an interesting interesting experience of a spontaneous meeting in the middle of nowhere, which ended up in a kind of creative creative process of building this fireplace together.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:42]:
Yeah. Now it's funny because I have some friends from The UK, and I've talked to them about, how old houses are in The United States. Like, you know, this house is a hundred years old, and my friend just laughs at me. It's like, that's nothing. You guys don't have history. And I'm thinking, like, some of the places that maybe you're in in The UK, like, maybe this fireplace, Was it a super old fireplace, couple hundred years old, or a little more modern?

James Crossley [00:12:06]:
I I don't know how old for sure because I think the Mountain Buffet Association, which is the kind of loose organizer of all of these cabins, I don't think it is more than about a hundred years old, but I think that some of the bothies are really, really old, that they've been owned by a farmer, or they've kind of been passed down and eventually given to the association to look after so that people can stay in them while they're hiking and cycling and things. So, definitely, some of them are proper, proper old, and I've stayed in a few where they're kind of not in the best shape, but very sort of romantic in terms of old stone and kind of creaky doors. So Yeah. Definitely, you you get the vibe.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:53]:
Absolutely. And it's funny when you mention, like, oh, it's not more than a hundred years old, which is kinda like nothing. Whereas in The United States, like, a hundred years old, like, that's that's a long time ago. Anyways, so I wanna kinda get into the details of your project. Why did you choose a cargo bike as the foundation for this?

James Crossley [00:13:12]:
Well, I I maybe a lot of listeners will also attest to when you show up in especially a small town or village on a touring bike looking kind of frazzled and dirty and, like, eating peanut butter straight out of a tub. People look at you, and it it creates a sense of connection with people. And I figured what better way to catalyze that into something even bigger than using a cargo bike. It's even even stranger of a thing to show up in a village, and instantly people will come and chat to you and and wonder what it's doing. That's one aspect. It's also practical. I wanted the idea of, like, I imagine, at least in this first year, quite a few of the artists who will apply are already people who cycle or travel or have some connection, but not everybody's used a cargo bike. So it it just increases the ability of carrying stuff and also makes it a little bit more interesting.

James Crossley [00:14:12]:
And then I also like the idea that it's a working vehicle. It's a tool. And I think that, with kind of the underlying intention of this project of building connections between urban space and rural space, between creative and perhaps more kind of left wing groups and then between more kind of working and perhaps today right wing groups to have a working vehicle as the base to cycle that up a hill and it'd be carrying a bunch of stuff. It instantly connects people no matter who you are because there's a little bit of respect of this is a tool, and it's impressive to cycle it. So, yeah, a little bit of a mix of ideas here. But, yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:58]:
I love that. And where did the bike come from? How is this funded? Is this your bike from from your from your living room, or whose bike is this?

James Crossley [00:15:07]:
No. I wish I owned a cargo bike, but I don't. The intention at the moment is borrowing a bike of a friend, so someone who's actually also an artist and is currently using this this cargo bike to travel around doing an art project. And they've graciously said that I can I could use it at least for this first year of the residency? So we're gonna I'll I'll fit it out to make sure it's all ready for artists to use to travel. But that's that's what it's gonna be. I I would love I would love in the future to get to get proper sponsorship and and have a brand on board and give me a fleet of cargo bikes to send people around. But I think at the moment, the the priority is get the get the project going and show people what it's about. And then maybe next year, because I hope this will continue for multiple years.

James Crossley [00:15:58]:
Next year, we'll we'll have that story to tell and maybe find a find a backer.

Jerry Kopack [00:16:04]:
Yeah. That was kinda my next thought is, you mentioned spine, sponsorship, and I was kinda wondering how this is funded. So when people set off on their cargo bike, is are they supported? Are they self funded? How how does that work?

James Crossley [00:16:17]:
Mhmm. So this first year, the the budget's a little bit flexible. There's a a minimum viable, cost. So the priority, one, is to make sure that the artists do get a fee for their time and for the work that they do. So artists are gonna be paid, but depending on how much funding I'm able to raise, both through institutional funding or cultural funding, arts funding that I apply to, and through a crowd funder, which is gonna be launching on on the March 10 as well. That money will, primarily go to the artists because the the running costs for the rest of the project since I'm borrowing a bike are not too high. But then, hopefully, the the kind of the business case for it will grow, and I'll be able to put more money back into the project, apply for more funding in the future, and kind of professionalize in a way or expand for for future years. But I'm I'm still applying now, though the the project is live.

James Crossley [00:17:22]:
I'll keep applying to different funding, which, in in The Netherlands, at least, it is possible to try and find something to support a project like this. But the the crowdfunding will be crucial too.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:35]:
Got it.

Tahverlee [00:17:39]:
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Jerry Kopack [00:18:26]:
Yeah. I was just thinking too. You mentioned you were borrowing a bike, and you're in The Netherlands. It's, it's it's a bike heaven, I think. I would I'm wondering if was there, like, a a bike manufacturer in The Netherlands who maybe would consider donating to your bike?

James Crossley [00:18:41]:
I have talked to a a couple of people both in The Netherlands and kind of there's a few cargo bike companies in Northern Europe. I think the state of the industry at the moment and, the economy and also a project like this that it's a little bit less easy to sell in some ways with kind of a clear marketing story than someone who is doing x ride, and they're gonna achieve this, and this is the story, and they're gonna make a film. I can understand why, like, a small cargo bike company wouldn't want to instantly give a bag give a bike away to me. So I'm I'm still hopeful that somebody is gonna pick this up and say, actually, we we would love to support the support the project, and we can loan you a bicycle. But my priority was always do the project, show the concept works, and make some impact already and leave the kind of the bigger planning stuff to work itself out.

Jerry Kopack [00:19:45]:
Got it. Which as we're talking, I'm thinking about, next year and trying to make this a recurring project. How are you how are you defining success? Like, what what what does success look like with this project?

James Crossley [00:20:01]:
I think for this first year, what I want to to define success is just stories to tell. As long as I've I've got three artists who are enthusiastic about taking part, and they each get to do a journey, and they're they're able to document it. And we can take their stories and build that into kind of a narrative of what this project is doing. For a pilot year, I would be really, really stoked just to to achieve that much. But I think in the long term, finding kind of lasting connections, I can imagine building relationships with specific communities or villages that we go back to. It may be that this project can also support regions that need to be more connected or are interested in more connection with different areas of the of the country, and, yeah, eventually, a little bit more financial stability for the project too. But, yeah, for this first year, I just wanna see it happen. I think I'm I'm definitely more on the artist side of the spectrum than the business person side.

James Crossley [00:21:07]:
So

Jerry Kopack [00:21:08]:
Got it. I, I wanna go back to something you mentioned a few minutes ago about how rolling through a town or a village, on a bicycle, it just kinda creates curiosity, and it sort of lays the foundation for just that embedded connection. And I think that it's it's such a a really cool idea that you are putting this project together on a bike. Because as you know, as you mentioned, the world is a bit polarized right now, and trying to bring people together and create connection is is such a valuable thing to do at this point. So I had a question about the kind of artist that maybe you're looking for. Are you do you have specifically, like, you want a sculptor or a photographer or a painter or a muralist or you just whoever comes through, and let's just see who's the right fit.

James Crossley [00:21:58]:
Yeah. I think it it's exactly that. Whoever comes through and applies, the the application form is quite open at the moment. So if if someone has got an idea they think really fits or if someone's just really curious, then I'll I'll have a chat with them and and see how it's gonna work. But I think that's it's not so much about a specific artistic format and more about an approach and someone who's willing to take this take this, experiment and and try writing and and meeting people. As well as I think that, like, I when I also work with a a group of people to to choose the artists, We'll wanna make sure that we've got an interesting mix of people and backgrounds as well, to, I think, everything I do within cycling. There's a couple of other initiatives I also run. I want to kind of spread the the benefits of of riding bikes and and anything outside the the mainstream group of predominantly white privileged men riding bikes.

James Crossley [00:23:05]:
So I'll I'll be trying to do that both within the project and through the project's impact too.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:11]:
Yeah. I appreciate you saying that because in my experience, I've I've traveled to a bunch of countries, but I'm also, a white male of a certain age. And you you make a great point. It is it is a privilege to be able to do this, that not everyone has an opportunity. So, yeah, talk to me about, maybe your diversity initiatives or if any ideas you have.

James Crossley [00:23:32]:
So I haven't got anything kind of set or, like, a diversity statement or anything. It's more just the the way that I run projects and that I work. I would always prioritize, people being able to access that over kind of, achieving a certain goal, which is not to say that access equals less achievement, but I think it's just a different way of looking at achievement. So where someone could create a project of going x distance or getting this kind of grand thing, my intention is the process and connecting people, and where where the message and even the name of the project, Middle Ground, is about finding things that connect us and cutting through the polarization and connecting connecting working people in a way, artists are workers, people in the countryside are workers. That's that's the priority for me, and I think that connects to both an internal and external idea of diversity of who is here and who could ride bikes and who can make art.

Jerry Kopack [00:24:40]:
Yeah. Well said. Thank you for that. That that that makes complete sense to me. We're talking about riding off into the countryside of places like that. I'm thinking to myself, I know that the bike is in The Netherlands where you are. Is there any kind of set route or just like the people have their own medium of art, they have their own route that they can choose to to go, venture off into?

James Crossley [00:25:04]:
Yeah. That's that's my, expectation for this year within the proposals the artists give for for doing the residency. Maybe there's a route. Maybe there's not so much a route, but more of, like, a mode of traveling. I'm I'm quite interested in more kind of, like, conceptual bicycle routing. So it could be someone who says, I'm gonna follow the wind. Wherever the wind's going, I'm just gonna gonna see where that takes me. Or maybe there's somewhere someone who specifically wants to go and connect with a certain community who have a a heritage factory that has existed for thousands of years, and they want to go and see that in the North Of Germany.

James Crossley [00:25:48]:
Or so it it totally depends on what the artist proposes. Although I have been also speaking with, a couple of, like, regions, so, like, tourist boards for, for example, Luxembourg, or there's an area in the North Of France I was speaking to because I think there's a potential for this project to actively connect with certain areas. So it may be, that one of the one of the residencies, maybe not this year, but another, will be specifically applying to go to a certain region and cycle around and use art and the cargo bike to connect to people there. So at the moment, very open in the future. Let's see where we go.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:28]:
Yeah. Sure. And, of course, the one of the beautiful things about Europe is is that all these open borders and everything is so easily to connect. So maybe people aren't just riding out of the front door of your house. Maybe they're putting their bike on a train and going to Germany or to France or to Italy. Right? I mean, is that a possibility?

James Crossley [00:26:48]:
I think it is. Taking a cargo bike, that's where the benefit of a normal bike actually Yeah. Kind of pips it because a cargo bike isn't always allowed on trains and buses. Ah. But it it's not impossible. So, yeah, if someone wants to go a little bit further, then or we could find a way to kind of chuck it on a chuck it on a truck and and hitchhike its way along. But if if the rough maximum amount of time for a trip is four weeks and someone prioritizes getting somewhere a little bit further away, you could still do a pretty good distance. Although the The Netherlands is flat, compared to the surrounding countries, there's still quite smooth smooth traveling at least towards kind of into France and into Germany.

James Crossley [00:27:38]:
So I think artists could get a a reasonable way, and then let's see how they get back.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:43]:
Yeah. I love that. It kinda keeps, keeps everything kind of open for for people's own creativity.

James Crossley [00:27:49]:
Yeah. Exactly.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:51]:
I'm thinking about cargo bikes, and I've seen two different varieties. I've seen one that kind of has the bulk of the the cargo in the back, and I've seen the one that has the bulk of the cargo in the front. Which one is yours?

James Crossley [00:28:02]:
So the one that I'm borrowing is a Larry versus Harry bullet bike, which has a a front low loaded platform. So it it yeah. You've got everything ahead of you. Although, I'm intending to put a rack and panniers on the back so the artist equipment will all go in the front or whatever flexible load space, and then the back has got kind of tent and the basics for traveling.

Jerry Kopack [00:28:28]:
Got it. Do you think it requires any kind of special bicycle skills to be able to drive one of these? Because I've been riding bikes most of my life. I've never ridden one of these. Is it Mhmm. Is there some kind of learning curve?

James Crossley [00:28:40]:
There is a there's a brief learning curve, but it's not too bad. Once you get used to it and you take it a little bit slow, then then you're fine, and it it feels supernatural. It does vary per cargo bike as well. Like, if you ride something that's more the, like, traditional bike shape, like an omnium, which still has a big deck at the front, then that really feels just like riding a bike. The Bullitt bike is a little bit more like a truck, but then if you've got a big load, if someone decides they do wanna carry a bunch of artistic equipment, it's a bit more stable, for for the journey, and it's also a bit more adjustable in terms of what size because I've only got the one bike. If an artist is one fifty centimeters sorry. I don't know what that is in in feet. If an artist if an artist is five foot versus being six foot five, then then it needs to be adjustable in some ways.

James Crossley [00:29:36]:
So the the bullet bike is is quite good for that.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:40]:
And I'm guessing there's plenty of gears even though The Netherlands is flat in case they try to go someplace else. There might be a hill or a mountain pass. Like, I'm guessing

James Crossley [00:29:48]:
that No. It's it it's geared well enough that the the person I'm borrowing it from actually has ridden it all the

Jerry Kopack [00:29:55]:
way to

Tahverlee [00:29:55]:
Morocco and back.

James Crossley [00:29:56]:
Wow. And they managed fine. So starting off in The Netherlands, you get a a smooth start to the journey, and then it's up uphill and downhill from there.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:05]:
You think it probably weighs, what, fifty, sixty kilos?

James Crossley [00:30:09]:
For the bike?

Jerry Kopack [00:30:10]:
Yeah.

James Crossley [00:30:12]:
I don't think it's that crazy. I think I think more like maybe 20 kilos, but I'd probably have to look it up.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:18]:
Okay.

James Crossley [00:30:19]:
Yeah. Because it I mean, it's basically the same weight as a bike, but then just a bit more frame. So yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:27]:
Alright. So it sounds like You're

James Crossley [00:30:29]:
not gonna be lifting it over fences, but I I think it's semi maneuverable.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:35]:
Do you do you have expend experiences lifting bikes over fences?

James Crossley [00:30:40]:
Yeah. I've definitely ended up on the wrong side of a few fences and and shouldered the bike or had to chuck a load of bags up a cliff and then go back down to bring the bike. But usually usually for good reason.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:53]:
Where was that out of curiosity?

James Crossley [00:30:58]:
I did a bit of cycling on the East Coast Of Italy. Ah. And whenever, like, there's a nice beach, there's not easy access. So you you would I would kind of drag the bike or take the bags off and then go back for the bike and and then be able to sleep on the beach, and then, yeah, do the same back. Because if there's if there's an easy road, then cars can get there, and you're not gonna have a nice quiet night.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:26]:
Yeah. Understood. Well, March 10 is right around the corner. I know you must be super excited, and you probably have a few more things to plan. But, hopefully, things are are falling in line as per expectations. Is there anything else that you're still working on before your big launch day?

James Crossley [00:31:46]:
So I've still got quite a lot of things on my to do list. There's a lot of people to email, double checking that the crowd fund is going, gonna start posting on on the Instagram. Also made a bunch of flyers. I did some printing at a local print shop here, and I'm gonna give those out to bike shops and art spaces in The Netherlands. So, yeah, just a lot of kind of getting things going, spreading the word so that hopefully on on Monday, I can hit the ground and and get some attention for the project, and the right people hear about it.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:21]:
Yeah. I love this. And I'm so happy that we got a chance to talk today, and I really hope that we can help support you in this in in this initiative because I think it's gonna be really, really important for society and in the world in general. So Thanks. How can listeners get involved in supporting or spreading the word about this cause, about this project?

James Crossley [00:32:42]:
So the website for the project is middleground.jamespac.net. Not the most professional of a website URL, but that's what I'm going with for this first year. And then that links to a bunch of stuff. It explains the story. It has some some press details if you wanna share out. But then you can also check out the Instagram, which is at cargo arts. That's a r t s. And there, I'm gonna be posting details at the moment just kind of announcing the project.

James Crossley [00:33:16]:
And then, hopefully, throughout the project, they'll be documenting the the artist's journeys and the things that get made. So you can also follow along there. And there's also a crowdfunding. I'm pretty sure the URL for that is crowdfunding.no.ngcrowdfunding.jamespack.net. But you can also find it linked on the Instagram and on the website. So if you wanna donate even a tiny amount, that will help towards making the project a reality, paying for artists, getting equipment sorted out. So that would be incredible too.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:54]:
And we're gonna have all links to those in our show notes so people can click on them and go and help support your your project.

James Crossley [00:34:03]:
Thanks so much.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:04]:
Alright, James. Thanks so much for sharing all your stories and talking about Middle Grounds. I wanna thank everyone for listening today for my conversation with James Crossley. And if you enjoy our show, give us a like, a share in our social channels, or maybe just tell your friends. These stories hopefully will inspire you to set off on your own bicycle adventure and maybe make the world feel a little bit smaller one pedal stroke at a time. My name is Jerry Kopack, and until next time, keep riding.

Tahverlee [00:34:33]:
Thank you for joining us, and we hope you enjoyed the show as much as we enjoyed making it. Wherever you are listening, please leave us a rating and a review as it helps us reach more cyclists and hosts around the world. Visit us at warmshowers.org to become a part of our community, or on Instagram @warmshowersunderscoreorg. If you would like to be a guest on the show or submit a question, please make sure to email us at podcast@warmshowers.org.