Biking Beyond Sixty

Tahverlee [00:00:03]:
Welcome to the Bike Life podcast by Warmshowers Foundation, where we will be sharing knowledge, experience, tools, and stories of touring cyclists and hosts from around the world. I'm Tahverlee, the woman behind the scenes at Warmshowers Foundation, the leading platform for cyclists looking for hosts and to connect with a passionate international community. Find out more by visiting us at Warmshowers dot org. Now, onto the show.

Jerry Kopack [00:00:40]:
Hey, everyone. This is Jerry Kopack, the host of bike life, coming to you from the mountains of Breckenridge, Colorado. If you've been dreaming about riding a classic East Coast Greenway route in North America, well, settle in because today's guest has got some stories for you. A couple years ago, Lisa Watts set off with a friend to tackle this 3,000 mile iconic route from Florida to Maine. She followed up that epic adventure with a travel memoir titled Crossing Bridges, What Biking Up the East Coast Taught Me About Life After 60. Hey, Lisa. Welcome to bike life.

Lisa Watts [00:01:12]:
Good morning, Jerry. Thank you. Fun to be here.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:15]:
Now I'm sure there are a ton of people out there listening who have had this route on their bucket list. So tell us a bit about the East Coast Greenway and why it's so special.

Lisa Watts [00:01:24]:
Sure. Well and, I should note that for 4 years, I was an employee of the East Coast Greenway Alliance, so I spoke with them. A little bit of company knowledge as well, but the idea of biking all along the East Coast was something I dreamed about for decades. And then we were living in North Carolina, and I tripped over the fact that there's a nonprofit based in Durham, North Carolina trying to build this route. Who and

Jerry Kopack [00:01:52]:
who and who is that?

Lisa Watts [00:01:55]:
The East Coast Greenway Alliance.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:57]:
There you go.

Lisa Watts [00:01:58]:
Greenway.org.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:59]:
Okay.

Lisa Watts [00:02:02]:
But it started, 30 years now, I think. It's been, a group of planners, Boston and New York and Washington DC, thinking that they would try to connect bike paths on the northern half of the East Coast, which is much more, developed, progressive along the lines of alternative travel, and it soon grew into the whole East Coast. But core to that was the idea that it could be locally, it could be something commuters used to get around those cities, and then the dream of people who wanted to take longer trips would connect at all. And one of the things I loved working there and when I took the trip was it intentionally takes you through the big cities, you know, Washington DC, Philadelphia, Miami, Raleigh, North Carolina, New York City. And you think on a bike, oh my god. You've gotta skirt them. You gotta go around. But those were my favorite days going into and out of big cities because, typically, there was pretty good infrastructure.

Lisa Watts [00:03:05]:
And, you know, you're on this beautiful bike path. You're not on, 95, you know, which most people know to travel the East Coast. So, yeah, just a great concept. And at this point, I know the nonprofit is giving the warning left and right. It's become more discovered. More people are wanting to try it. It's important to know that it's about 35% complete. So, while 35% of it is on beautiful protected bike paths, 65% or so is still gonna be on roads.

Lisa Watts [00:03:38]:
And some of them are hairier than others. The South, unfortunately, South Carolina, most especially in Georgia, are not always pleasant. So it it's a good reminder that, you know, it's not all bike path quite yet. That's the goal.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:54]:
Yeah. So I guess people maybe in these areas in the South aren't used to seeing cyclists on the road and that maybe just don't know how to to inter interface with them maybe.

Lisa Watts [00:04:03]:
Well, in all fairness, so when I did the trip, I was with my friend Dee who's 9 years older than me, a fearless soul. She's ridden her bike all around the world. I get a little braver when I'm with her, and we rode, you know, single file with her in front, of course, along Highway 17 in South Carolina. And you have no shoulder. You have a rumble strip, you know, to keep a drowsy driver from drifting into the grass, and trucks flying by. And I'm telling myself, they don't want to hit me. They don't want to hit me. You know, it we didn't experience any aggression from drivers, but there just literally is no shoulder.

Lisa Watts [00:04:43]:
So, and a sense, you know, it the- the route depends on each municipality dedicating money towards building, you know, a bike path, maintaining it. There's a sense in the south of police education, all these things are more important maybe than, alternative transportation routes. They're working on it.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:06]:
And so when you say they're working on it, do you know is there any kind of timeline for this to be completed?

Lisa Watts [00:05:14]:
I would say, you know, people keep dreaming. I think again, I've been away from the actual, inner workings of the Greenway for a few years now, but I think federal funding, and that's where the largest chunk of the funding comes from for transportation projects, like the Greenway has been better in recent years, and so that has sped up a little bit of the timeline. It takes a long time. We used to share when I worked there that on average, a mile of Greenway cost $1,000,000 between land acquisition, planning, design, building.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:48]:
So Yeah.

Lisa Watts [00:05:48]:
It's a big project.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:51]:
Wow. And so okay.

Lisa Watts [00:05:54]:
One big highway bridge is probably the same cost as finishing the rest of the greenway. You know? So it's important to keep in mind the scale of federal transportation dollars and, you know, what we're talking about.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:06]:
And so talking about federal dollars, so this is a federally funded project. There are they not relying on funding from each individual state, but they're obviously collaborating with the states for the infrastructure.

Lisa Watts [00:06:18]:
It's the it's the whole package. And that's what makes it so tricky and why the alliance is there as a champion and cheerleader and guide is that each portion of the greenway belongs to the municipality it passes through. So that town, city, you know, may advocate and fund for the state and federal, but the biggest chunk of funding typically comes from federal transportation dollars, typically.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:44]:
Got it. And where is sort of the, the largest percentage, protected bikeways? Is it further north?

Lisa Watts [00:06:52]:
Definitely the northern half versus the southern half. And I used to know this stuff off the top of my head. Rhode Island, the little tiny state where I live, has had a huge percentage complete, you know, of its miles, because they they were doing it early on. You know, 25, 30 years ago, they were building bike paths. Yeah. Yeah. In general, New England and the northern states are doing better.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:20]:
So what do these bike paths look like? Do they do they parallel the main roads, or do they just kind of divert way off into into the woods or in the countryside?

Lisa Watts [00:07:28]:
Yeah. It's the whole gamut, which is really one of the fun things about the trip is that, you kinda picture it running along the water the whole way, and, of course, you're not. But beautiful waterfront stretches. You know, as I said, riding through cities was great, and that's typically a protected bike path, you know, off the road. Some of it is alongside the road. At this point, you know, you're definitely gonna be riding with some sharrows and that kind of thing, but it's it's a whole mix. And when you are going through so many urban areas and then some rural, that's the fun of it. It's just a huge mix.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:06]:
So I I find it funny to say or interesting that you feel that's riding through the big cities was one of your favorite parts because so many cyclists, myself included Right. Dread those. Like, trying to get in and out of the city with the congestion and the traffic. I just wanna be free out into the wilderness or the woods or the mountain passes. Yeah. Tell me tell me why you love coming into the cities.

Lisa Watts [00:08:28]:
Yeah. Well, again, it's that notion you have, and you live out west. Yes. And so your notion may be I need to be in the mountains, you know, And I wrote about this in the book. I'm a child of the suburbs. I'm a child of the East Coast. I grew up in Atlanta and then Baltimore and Boston. This is my familiar territory.

Lisa Watts [00:08:47]:
Okay. And I love, you know, being along the water, but and you and we know 95 is how you travel. You know from north to south. But, no. Like, Philadelphia, beautiful bike path that takes you right into the city, and you're along the river and, you know, you're surrounded by tall buildings, and you're on this beautiful protective path. You don't know about that when you're driving on 95. They're like secrets. The same in Boston, beautiful Charles River bike path, you know, along the Charles River, New York City, riding along the Hudson River Greenway.

Lisa Watts [00:09:23]:
That's my favorite way to go to New York is just, you know, stay on the bike path, stay away from the downtown streets. So and to me, you know, I loved that we were never terribly far from civilization, so you can get the things you need like food, coffee, a bathroom.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:42]:
Yeah. Of course. The the essentials.

Lisa Watts [00:09:44]:
Yeah. Right.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:47]:
So did you have a a favorite state, a favorite part of the the Greenway, or just a favorite aspect of this route?

Lisa Watts [00:09:55]:
It's funny, Jerry. People asked us that all along the way, and I can kinda tell they wanted us to say their town where we were.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:03]:
I'm sorry for being so unoriginal. I know you've had this question so many times.

Lisa Watts [00:10:07]:
Well and it's hard. But, you know and my friend Dee would say, oh my gosh. All the people we've met. She was afraid that the 2 of us traveling as old, old friends, we wouldn't be talking to other people, but we met people all along the way. And there was something about the 2 of us that, I have found since, and I talk about in the book a little bit. The fact that, you know, I was approaching 60. She was approaching 70. We didn't wear bike clothes.

Lisa Watts [00:10:36]:
We just wore, like we're both runners as well. We had, you know, running shorts and singlets on. We didn't look very threatening. And so people found us very approachable, and they were curious. So Dee would say people, all the people we met was her favorite part. I still say the thrill of of biking into a big city and knowing I got there under my own power. When we were biking through Miami on a Sunday morning, like, I got here from Key West. You know?

Jerry Kopack [00:11:04]:
Yeah.

Lisa Watts [00:11:04]:
It's a big city. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:07]:
So Apologies,

Lisa Watts [00:11:08]:
miss Jerry, I've now read your book. And the scale of the 2 adventures is is sort of night and day.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:17]:
No. No. No. No.

Lisa Watts [00:11:18]:
It is. It is. But I think that that's what I keep remembering about my story is I'm a very ordinary person who happens to like to ride a bike and just push myself to take more than a week long bike trip. I took 2 months. And that for me was a powerful adventure that changed me. It really it changed my life. I didn't have to go to Africa or India. And you took 2 years and some.

Lisa Watts [00:11:46]:
Right?

Jerry Kopack [00:11:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. So that brings me to my question. Another question. Was there something that inspired this trip? Was there something that happened in life that says, you know what? I'm gonna do something big. And speaking of that, how long was this trip for you?

Lisa Watts [00:12:06]:
Yeah. It was almost exactly 2 months. It was 57 or 58 days. So,

Jerry Kopack [00:12:13]:
and

Lisa Watts [00:12:13]:
we gave ourself. Yeah. It was. We gave ourself pretty much, one day off a week, you know, if we were staying at a friend's house or something like that. So, it started because I have grown up along the East Coast, and at some point in my early twenties living in Boston and doing a lot of biking just for fun, I thought that would be really cool to connect all the dots of my life. And then as I say, I learned about the East Coast Greenway that people were building a bike route that was exactly what I wanted to do. But I had been able to do, like, week long bike trips here and there from my forties in Ohio on, and that just sort of whet my appetite because, you know, there's something about being on your bike for a week or more. You've got all the things you need on your bike.

Lisa Watts [00:13:07]:
You're carrying it with you. I wanted to feel what that felt like for longer, and I could pretend that that's how I lived. And, yeah, I started, you know, making a spreadsheet, which I know doesn't sound very spontaneous or adventurous.

Jerry Kopack [00:13:22]:
You got a plan.

Lisa Watts [00:13:24]:
Yeah. Pretty much booking like 3 quarters of our stays, you know, on the trip. And I had that window of 2 months because I had a job. I had to get back to my job at the East Coast Greenway. So, it was something that I knew I wanted to do and also, Dee had just retired, so she had time. And I kind of had that feeling if I don't do it now, am I going to do this in 10 years, Which the answer now is yes, I would, but I didn't know it at the time. So

Jerry Kopack [00:14:00]:
Wow. So did you go north to south or south to north?

Lisa Watts [00:14:04]:
We went south to north.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:06]:
Okay.

Lisa Watts [00:14:07]:
And, Dee, again, she's a world traveler, wise woman, and she said, prevailing winds are westerly, so they were gonna be gonna blow us up.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:16]:
Oh, tailwinds are nice.

Lisa Watts [00:14:18]:
2 or 3 days, we hit a huge headwind coming out of the keys. I thought, what was she talking about? And I don't know. A few times along the trip, we heard the joke about if we'd gone the other way, it would have all been downhill. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:33]:
You think that's true?

Lisa Watts [00:14:34]:
North to south. No.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:38]:
So because you worked for the Greenway, I would expect that they would be encouraging you to, yeah, take some time off. Go explore this amazing thing that we do, and tell us about it.

Lisa Watts [00:14:47]:
Yeah. I I asked my boss to go for a walk, and he thought I was announcing that I was quitting. And I just said, no. Do you think I could take a 2 month leave? I've wanted to do this. And he said, no. Yeah. That's great. Just please be safe because if his communications manager, if something terrible happened on the trip, it wouldn't do well.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:09]:
Oh, so that was that was your role?

Lisa Watts [00:15:11]:
Yes. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:12]:
Okay. That's that's important for the Greenway for sure.

Lisa Watts [00:15:15]:
Right.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:16]:
That'd be bad press. Right?

Lisa Watts [00:15:17]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I I think I turned in 3 or 4 blog posts along the way, and and, really, everything did go well. It down to it was like we were moving in a bubble of, good weather. You know, we had storms behind us and ahead of us and rarely even had bad weather. So it just it all went ridiculously well.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:38]:
Ridiculously well. I love that description.

Lisa Watts [00:15:41]:
Well, you know, for a story, it would have been more of a story if we encountered some huge, you know

Jerry Kopack [00:15:47]:
Yeah. Hurricane or something that you had to ride through, like, ah, jeez. So I love what you said about the difference between say, like, an overnight or a weekender or a long distance long time cycling adventure because you talk about how it just becomes life. It's not essentially like, that's like a little weekend getaway. It's a vacation, like, your whole day becomes just riding, and you can kind of settle into maybe a different mindset. So maybe talk to me more about that, what that experience is like for you.

Lisa Watts [00:16:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. That's exactly it. It's it's how you live. And, you know, I worry a little bit beforehand. Would I get bored or, you know, I would just get tired of it, and I loved it. And part of that is I I love novelty and change, and we got up every day and we didn't know exactly what we were gonna see.

Lisa Watts [00:16:36]:
You know, there is a certain predictable routine to, you know, we average 60 miles a day. We knew we'd, you know, stop mid morning and have our second breakfast. We we drank a lot of coffee. But, you know, every day the landscape was a little bit different. Occasionally, we had people meeting us who would guide us and then we didn't have to navigate. That was a treat. I loved it. I loved it.

Lisa Watts [00:17:00]:
My body felt healthy. I life is really simple. I loved that everything I needed was in my 2 panniers and, you know, not complicated.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:11]:
I love that. It's just a way to really simplify things, and you probably learned this too. You you come back with this mentality of, okay, what do I really need? If I can live for 2 months on a bicycle and you come back home like, oh, wow. I could really simplify some things.

Lisa Watts [00:17:29]:
Absolutely. I, I've also always liked houses. Okay. I came I came back to our little bungalow in Durham, North Carolina, and it was a 3 bedroom, 3 bath. There was a little bedroom and bath downstairs. And I remember thinking, what, what's all this space for, and why do I have a whole closet of clothes? This is ridiculous. And I cooked up a plan that happened within 6 months of getting back where we moved to a little townhouse. And I have a friend, Charlie, who goes all the way back to, high school.

Lisa Watts [00:18:02]:
We used to bike together and he said, that's the pannier effect. You know? Like, you you just downsize because you realize you don't need all that stuff. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:11]:
You need to trademark that. That I love it. The pannier effect.

Lisa Watts [00:18:15]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:16]:
I mean, I I had a similar experience as well, but I love that.

Lisa Watts [00:18:20]:
Well, it came from Charlie Finnegan. I suspect he didn't create it, but yeah. It's real. And it and I yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:27]:
Wow. Okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna hold on to that one. But if I ever do use it in a public setting, I am definitely going to cite you. Right. For sure. I'm not gonna claim as my own. Perfect.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:39]:
So

Tahverlee [00:18:41]:
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Jerry Kopack [00:19:29]:
You're no stranger to to cycling. You've been riding your bike for a while. You probably have been doing tours for a while. What's changed in the touring mentality, the touring industry, or maybe just about you? What have you what's changed with you in the last, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 years since you've been doing this kind of traveling?

Lisa Watts [00:19:48]:
Yeah. I think the first startling change was, going to find a bike for the trip. And so before then, it had always been a road bike. I had a beat up old Raleigh, and I cared about my pace, you know, and worried why I couldn't keep up with my friends. I I felt like I probably needed a better bike. And I went to a bike shop in Raleigh, North Carolina and said, I guess I need a touring bike. And all of a sudden, you know, you get wider tires and a heavier bike, and it's all about endurance. And that really suits me.

Lisa Watts [00:20:20]:
I'm I'm a runner. I love long distance running. I've never been a sprinter or a 5 k runner. And I got on the low end of a Kona Rope touring bike, and it it wasn't steel. It was aluminum, and I felt like I was riding on air, you know, wider tires. And it's probably the bike that has fit me best, and I put a leather Brooks seat on. And I'm never going back to a road bike. So the idea of, a bike that can handle any kind of terrain that you're riding on, that was eye opening to me, and I gave up caring how fast I go.

Lisa Watts [00:20:58]:
I I wanna be comfortable. I love to go for a long time, but I don't care about my speed anymore. So

Jerry Kopack [00:21:04]:
So this was a a flat bar bike, little bit wider tires. No? Still droppers?

Lisa Watts [00:21:09]:
Handlebars. Yeah. I have since moved on to a a hybrid, because it's a little bit lighter. That bike was really heavy. And I I took a bike tour in Europe last fall where we, boxed our bikes and flew them over. And my friend said, I don't think your bike's gonna meet the weight limit.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:27]:
£50. Yeah. 23 kg.

Lisa Watts [00:21:30]:
Exactly. So now I have flat bars. Okay. And, again, I'm never going back to drop handlebars. I don't need to drop. I'm I'm not gonna be sprinting. So, yeah, that's changed my world too. So, you know, in general, it's kinda like the music industry.

Lisa Watts [00:21:47]:
I feel like there used to be all these categories, and then the categories got huge. You know? What's the difference between a gravel bike and a hybrid? You know? And it doesn't really matter. I just feel like, now the most important thing I tell friends is just get it to fit you. The geometry is really important. So

Jerry Kopack [00:22:08]:
Yeah. And the I've got to ask this. Since you talk about different kind of terrain, the bike goes anywhere. These coast greenway, all paved or some dirt roads, some dirt paths?

Lisa Watts [00:22:19]:
Yeah. Some dirt paths. Okay. And, you know, the the thing is because it's in development, some of that changes, you know, monthly, and there is an online map at greenway.org that kinda identifies, you know, where it's dirt or gravel. But, yeah, I would say 10% dirt paths

Jerry Kopack [00:22:42]:
on the road. Not terrible? No. No. Okay. And so if someone was gonna head off on, say, a skinny tire road bike, it it would be fine. It wouldn't be deadly?

Lisa Watts [00:22:52]:
No. Okay. But I was way more comfortable. I loved it. And, you know, you don't even think about gravel or, you know, crossing over bumps and things because, yeah, the the wider tires was a revelation to me.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:09]:
It's a lot more surface area contact, so it gives you better control, absorbs more bumps, and it's just it's more comfortable. Right?

Lisa Watts [00:23:17]:
It's more comfortable. Yeah. It feels good.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:19]:
Yeah. It's funny how the industry is changing because people used to ride road bikes with 20 millimeter tires, and now they're riding with 30 and 40 millimeter tires. And yeah, it's it's amazing just how much more comfortable and how much more control and confidence that gives you. So

Lisa Watts [00:23:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. I did get on my road bike once after the trip, and I was actually, a friend's wife was interested in buying it. And It was it was so fast. It was scary. I thought I need a seat belt. This is this is out of control.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:52]:
And and then now everything has disc brakes, which is so much better, especially in rain. Absolutely. Yeah. Speaking speaking of rain, this is a question I like to ask from time to time with my guests. And so here you go. Was there anything along this trip that made you think like, oh man, How am I gonna get out of this one? Because, you know, trips of this length, I mean, things are bound to go wrong even as Yeah. As much as you planned.

Lisa Watts [00:24:18]:
Yes. Yeah. Okay. Well, before we left, my friend Debbie at the office at the East Coast Greenway said, don't be one of those EDIers, people every damn inch. You know, you haven't done the greenway if you haven't biked every damn inch. You know, if you need help, ask for help. And we were biking into Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, and it was raining, and then it just turned to monsoon. And that's one of the areas of the coast that has a lot of issues with flooding.

Lisa Watts [00:24:47]:
You know? It's kind of, parts of Florida too. They call it sunny day flooding. It's just it's climate change, you know. But as we're entering Myrtle Beach, which had that I don't know if it's a city or town, small city, it has the first complete section of East Coast Greenway running from end to end. So I really wanted to make sure I caught that, and it was bike week in Myrtle Beach. The wrong kind of bike. Motorcycle week. And, I mean, Jerry, the puddles were, like, up to our calves, you know, and we were getting colder.

Lisa Watts [00:25:22]:
And Dee has, Raynaud's disease. A lot of my runner friends have that where her toes and fingers get useless when she gets cold and her lips were turning blue and, it's painful. I understand. So we stopped under an awning and said it's time. It's time to ask somebody with a truck if they can take us on to North Myrtle Beach where where we were stopping for the night, and we got, you know, the motorcyclist who all had pickup trucks in the parking lot of Harley Davidson just looking at us like, what? And y'all need motors on those things. And, you know and so we rode on. The puddles were ridiculous. It was cold, and we stopped at a real estate office where they let us come in and use the bathroom and make some coffee with their Keurig machine.

Lisa Watts [00:26:11]:
And this fellow who was real estate shopping came out and said, I know you probably wanna do the rest of the route yourself, but I have a truck here that could carry both bikes. And I looked at Dee, and, you know, we were a unanimous yes, please. So he took us the last 10 miles, and, we loved it. We didn't feel bad at all. Good. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, 10 or 15 years before that, we might not have taken the ride.

Lisa Watts [00:26:39]:
So I think that's part of the wisdom that comes with age. You know? If if Dee's not able to use her fingers, it's probably not a good idea for her to be on the bike. But, really, that was, like, our worst weather. We had one more day like that 2 days before we finished in Maine, and then it was really cold. It was mid June in Maine, and we tried the truck question a couple places, and no one was available. And we rode, and it felt like the wind was gonna push me off the side of the road, but, you know, we made it.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:11]:
So though there there were nobody in in Maine who would, who would give you a little lift?

Lisa Watts [00:27:15]:
We stopped at this one little diner coffee shop, and there were 2 young guys sitting there. And we kinda asked them, and this guy launched it. He said, let me call my boss, see if I can borrow a truck. And, you know, we didn't wanna push it too much. And finally, he said, you know, I'm just I'm dealing with the lawyer who's trying to take my kid away. We thought, his life is a little more complicated than ours. We'll just pull our wet rain jackets on and show us ride. And then we got to the Blueberry Patch Motel, which had little in room heaters where we could hang our stuff up.

Lisa Watts [00:27:50]:
And the guy checking us in said, oh, boy. I would have picked you up on the road if I'd seen you gals out there, but we didn't see them.

Jerry Kopack [00:28:01]:
So I I love how you talk about the EDI, every damage, And I love that you didn't fully subscribe to that. So you're you're from the Northeast United States. You're familiar with the ice cream company, Ben and Jerry's. Yeah? Yep. Okay. So Ben Cohen, the founder has this this saying. I'm a big fan of of what I call inspirational quotes. So one of his quotes is, if it's not fun, why do it? Oh.

Jerry Kopack [00:28:25]:
And I and I try to live by that as well. So it sounds like in in an indirect way, you said, you know what? This is not that fun. Let's let's just skip the section. Let's skip the rain. Let's go and get warm. And so bravo to you.

Lisa Watts [00:28:38]:
Yeah. There was a one other tiny stretch like that. These are my only, you know, 2 exceptions. I knew that approaching New York City, there is a stretch that I had seen other people doing the whole East Coast Greenway talked about. Like, one bridge where I've seen photos, it's all overgrown with grass, and you're you're along the highway. You know, you're coming close to the city. And I told my coworker, Niels, like, that part kinda scares me, and he said, take the train. You're not missing, you know, nice greenway.

Lisa Watts [00:29:08]:
So we did. We took the commuter train from Brunswick, New Jersey into, I think it was Grand Central Station. We had wanted to take the ferry across, but we missed that part. But that's okay. And, again, it's like, oh my gosh. The commuter train was awesome. We just rolled our bikes on and Dee grabbed iced coffee from the Dunkin' Donuts, and it was great.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:35]:
I I it's it's about the adventure as a whole, not about every damage as you so perfectly articulated.

Lisa Watts [00:29:42]:
Yeah. Welcome to the, non EDI club.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:46]:
Exactly. So if you don't mind, I wanna pivot and talk about your book. So Crossing Bridges, I'm thinking there's maybe a metaphor in that title?

Lisa Watts [00:29:57]:
Yeah. I the older I get, the more uncomfortable I am with edges and heights. And I used to love bridges. Bridges take you to all these wonderful places like islands, but, I started getting really uncomfortable biking over bridges. And guess what? The East Coast has. Bridges. Hundreds of bridges. Our first day coming out of the Keys, we had to ride Seven Mile Bridge, which is a 7 Mile Bridge.

Lisa Watts [00:30:29]:
The arch is in the middle. It's not flat, and I was petrified. It took us an hour in headwinds. It was, actually an editor, I have to give credit to, the first draft of the book. She said, you know, you talk about bridges a lot, and you know, there's kind of a metaphor there. And, it's true. It just was, I won't say that by the time I finished, I got rid of my fear of biking over bridges, but I definitely had gotten accustomed to it. And it's a lot about entering this sort of third act of life, where a lot of my, you know, aspiring about my career and other facts of my life has just settled into it's a great place to be, and you just get yourself across.

Lisa Watts [00:31:15]:
You know? You just, I came up with a method for making myself comfortable as I rode across.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:22]:
What was that?

Lisa Watts [00:31:25]:
You don't look too far forward. You look just at your front tire. You don't, you know, acknowledge that your body is saying, oh my god. What would happen if we fell over the edge? You acknowledge it, but you don't focus on it and you just keep moving forward. It's kind of a metaphor for living.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:42]:
Got it. That makes sense.

Lisa Watts [00:31:43]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:44]:
And so I'm sure you're aware there's been a lot of information recently not just about aging, but aging well. And of course, people talk about diet and rest, but the big component I keep coming back to is is community. And so, what have you learned so far about aging well?

Lisa Watts [00:32:02]:
Yeah. Community is important in friends, but also attitude. And it's a kind of funny bookend that, I'm just leaving a job. I've actually just retired as of a week or so ago with the Gerontology Institute at UMass Boston. And so, these are people who study aging, aging policy, not the health of aging. But there was a lot of focus on, ageism and how we talk about aging, how we think about it. And I had to admit that, you know, one of my first thoughts about what happens when we age is we decline, right? It's a decline. And so, you know, sharing a lot of research about these attitudes and where they come from, I think I've, embodied some of it is to me, this is actually a great time of life.

Lisa Watts [00:32:52]:
I feel like, you know, I was a mom, I had a career, and a lot of that responsibility as it, you know, slips away means I have way more time to play. I have resources. I have the experience of all my years, and I'm still healthy. And, like, this is a gift. I never even considered that the sixties might be, you know, playtime. Yeah. And I think we tend to not look at aging that way. We just say, of course, it's inevitable that we keep declining and everything gets harder and gets worse, and it's not necessarily true.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:30]:
Okay. So one thing that I've been paying attention to in my life is I age, and and I'm not 60, but I turned 50 this year. So I'm paying attention to these things as well.

Lisa Watts [00:33:40]:
Oh, lord.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:43]:
I I feel great, but thank you. So one thing that that I've been paying attention to is that I know in in our country, people talk about put your head down, work hard, do all these things until you turn 65, and then start living your best life. And, you know, we we probably have all had experience, you know, on people who didn't live to 65. And so do you have any thoughts about, like, how to live not just when you're 60 and beyond, but throughout your life to to have a really good and fulfilled life?

Lisa Watts [00:34:17]:
Yeah. Absolutely. That's a great point. There's no given. There's no guarantee. And so I think I always believed in a balance. My work was very sedentary, sitting at a desk, writing things, and I loved running, biking, kayaking, yoga as a balance. And I think, you know, that's probably where health is, you know, satisfying work but also being able to play and be active.

Lisa Watts [00:34:44]:
But I think, you know, the idea of putting your life on hold until you're 65 and who knows when, I never subscribed to that. So, I took opportunities when I can, but it was a little more measured. Again, like a week's bike tour instead of 2 months. And what I'm saying is I feel like the older I got and, you know, for whatever reason, I felt like I could afford to take a 2 month lead from my job. Like, these opportunities, you did it in your 40s, which is awesome. And I think just recognizing opportunities when they're available and not saving it for your, you know, late sixties, seventies is smart.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:30]:
Wow. I love this, and I am so happy that I got a chance to talk to you. And I have your book on order. So I wanna thank you so much for taking the time to share your story. I'm sure it's inspired a ton of people to check out this iconic group and, of course, your book. So on that note, are there ways for listeners to connect with you, learn more about your venture, or, of course, where to get your book?

Lisa Watts [00:35:55]:
Oh, absolutely. Thank you. Yes. And this has been really fun. I would talk about bike travel anytime. Crossing Bridges memoir.com. You can read a little bit more about me and order the book, which is you order it anywhere you find a book. And, greenway.org, you can learn more about the East Coast Greenway.

Lisa Watts [00:36:13]:
But, yes, thank you. It's just been a lot of fun.

Jerry Kopack [00:36:17]:
Alright. Well, everyone, thanks for listening to my conversation with Lisa Waters. If you enjoy our show, give us a like, a share to our social channels, or maybe just tell your friends. These stories hopefully will inspire you to set off on your own bicycle adventure and maybe make the world feel a little bit smaller one's pedal stroke at a time. My name is Jerry Kopack, and until next time, keep riding.

Tahverlee [00:36:41]:
Thank you for joining us, and we hope you enjoyed the show as much as we enjoyed making it. Wherever you are listening, please leave us a rating and a review as it helps us reach more cyclists and hosts around the world. Visit us at Warmshowers.org to become a part of our community, or on Instagram at Warmshowers_org. If you would like to be a guest on the show or submit a question, please make sure to email us at podcast at Warmshowers.org.