A Host's Journey: Building Global Community Through Cycling

Jerry Kopack [00:00:01 - 00:00:54]

Welcome to Bike Life, a podcast from the Warmshowers Foundation. Here we celebrate our global community of touring cyclists and hosts who make life on the road unforgettable. Through stories, insights, and shared experiences, we explore the connections that fuel every journey. Whether you're pedaling across countries or welcoming travelers into your home, you're part of a movement Rooted in generosity and adventure. Discover more and join the community at warmshowers.org. Now let's hit the road together. Hey everyone, this is Jerry Kopech, the host of Bike Life, coming to you from the Rocky Mountains of Breckenridge, Colorado. Nick Givock caught the bicycle touring bug at just 12 years old while riding RAGBRAI across Iowa, and he's been exploring the world by bike ever since.

Jerry Kopack [00:00:55 - 00:01:12]

Along the way, he's experienced incredible generosity from strangers, inspiring him to become a Warmshowers host himself. Today, we'll talk about a lifetime of bicycle touring, the people he's met along the way, and how a simple act of hospitality can leave as lasting of an impression as the ride itself. Nick, welcome to Bike Life.

Nick Gevock [00:01:14 - 00:01:22]

Thanks for having me. This is a great opportunity. Warmshowers is something I'm kind of passionate about, and so it's nice to share that with people.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:23 - 00:01:31]

So I definitely want to talk about your passion for Warmshowers, but did I get this right? You rode RAGBRAI when you were 12?

Nick Gevock [00:01:32 - 00:01:49]

I, I did. I, I rode all of RAGBRAI when I was 12, and I actually rode a bit of it when I was 11. So, um, but I grew up in eastern Iowa, and my, my father and my brothers rode RAGBRAI, and, um, I did the whole thing when I was 12 years old.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:50 - 00:01:59]

Wow. Now, for people who don't know what RAGBRAI is, can you give me a little bit about the details, maybe the history, the size of it? Just what is RAGBRAI?

Nick Gevock [00:02:00 - 00:02:44]

RAGBRAI is the oldest, longest, and largest touring bicycle event in the world. It is, it is an acronym that stands for Register's Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa. The Register being the Des Moines Register newspaper. And the history of is just the lore around it is kind of legendary. But a couple reporters at the Des Moines Register were big cyclists, John Karras and, oh geez, I'm forgetting his name. Don Call. Donald Call. And one day in the newsroom, John Karras said to Don Call, you know, you ought to ride your bike across the state.

Nick Gevock [00:02:45 - 00:03:25]

and write about the people you meet and the towns you experience and everything. And Don Call said, well, you ought to join me. And, and he said, we ought to invite the readers. Well, no, when, when— sorry, when John Charis went to his editor, he said, you ought to invite the readers. Well, and John Charis famously years ago said, that's a dumb idea. Well, he put a little column on the front page, buried on a Sunday down on the Des Moines Register. Don Call and I are going to ride our bicycles across the state. And when they showed up in Sioux City, there were 300 people waiting for them.

Nick Gevock [00:03:26 - 00:03:35]

They had no plans, no plan for sanitation. It was haphazard, but they did it. They rode across the state in 6 days.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:36 - 00:03:42]

That is incredible. I'm impressed that you know that much history about it. That's fantastic.

Nick Gevock [00:03:42 - 00:03:44]

Well, it gets better. Let me—

Jerry Kopack [00:03:45 - 00:03:45]

Keep going.

Nick Gevock [00:03:46 - 00:04:06]

Yeah. Well, when they were done, there were actually about 70-some people who finished the whole thing. A lot of people joined for the day, but the people begged them to do it again. So they did the second one, SAGBRAI, Second Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa. But if you know much about event planning, by year 5, there were 5,000 people.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:06 - 00:04:07]

Holy moly.

Nick Gevock [00:04:07 - 00:04:14]

Yeah. And now they just completed it a week ago, less than a week ago there. And it is about 25,000 bikes these days.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:15 - 00:04:19]

Oh my goodness. And how many miles is it across Iowa, give or take?

Nick Gevock [00:04:21 - 00:05:10]

Well, each year they take a different route, you know, and Iowa has the perfect density of towns to support 25,000 cyclists. In other words, I mean, you couldn't hire a caterer to feed 25,000 people, right? So, right. Every Rotary Club and Little League club and church and civic entity is there. And it's a fundraiser for them, but just to feed that many people, it's remarkable. And then of course, you got to deal with the sanitation and you got to have luggage carried and you got to have water. And I mean, there's so much to it, but they've got it down. I've called it once in my newspaper days, myself, the ultimate celebration of cycling. And you see people of all ages and, you know, because it's a tour.

Nick Gevock [00:05:11 - 00:05:50]

And, you know, what it has done, Iowa not only has the density of towns, it has a really amazing road system of paved county highways, of course, to get the crops out of the fields. And it is really built a cycling culture in the state of Iowa that is remarkable. I mean, the number of people who, you know, RAGBRAI came through their And they said, I wanted to do that. And the next year they went, you know, they got a basic road bike and rode RAGBRAI. So it's done so much for the state of Iowa to foster that culture of cycling. And I'm very thankful for that.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:51 - 00:06:29]

That is incredible. I learned about it probably a decade ago as a touring cyclist myself, but I've yet to do it. But every person I talk to, especially now with you, with this rich history, It's making me for sure want to put that on my to-do list because I've, like you, I've been through a lot of states, a lot of countries on tour. But the idea of thinking of Iowa as this cycling tourist mecca, it's fascinating to me. Like, it's got to be such a cool experience. I'm imagining people through all these small Midwest towns come out and just celebrate this event.

Nick Gevock [00:06:30 - 00:06:35]

It's amazing. You feel like a hero, right? There are people waving and they want to clap your hands.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:36 - 00:06:36]

Yeah.

Nick Gevock [00:06:36 - 00:07:06]

I mean, it is really ingrained in the culture of the state of Iowa. And, you know, even a lot of your basic small, you know, county seats, your bigger town in really rural parts of Iowa often have a basic bike shop. They might have a bicycle club, you know, and it's also, it's not a racing culture, you know, it is a touring culture because You know, it's not a race, it's a bike ride, you know, and, and that, that is what I'm so thankful for. So I've done 17 of them through the years.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:09 - 00:07:10]

When was the most recent one you've done?

Nick Gevock [00:07:11 - 00:07:13]

Uh, just 3 years ago I rode the 50th.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:13 - 00:07:14]

Okay. Yeah.

Nick Gevock [00:07:15 - 00:07:15]

Oh wow.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:15 - 00:07:19]

Okay. So was there a big party for— to commemorate the 50th?

Nick Gevock [00:07:20 - 00:08:17]

Oh, RAGBRAI is a big party every year, but Yes, it was pretty huge. And they sort of kept similar to the very first RAGBRAI. It was very similar to that route. So you ask, most RAGBRAIs are somewhere between 420 and 460, 470 miles in a week. There were some in the '80s that were 520 miles in a week where you followed a century, a 100-mile day with like an 80-mile day. And those were pretty Pretty stout bike rides. And despite the myth that Iowa is flat, you get on a bicycle and parts of it are pretty flat north central, but there's so many river valleys and it is very rolling, especially southern Iowa. And then coming out of the Missouri River Valley, and then of course, the big bluffs up above the Mississippi River on the east side of the state.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:18 - 00:08:37]

Yeah. And I'm just, to your point, it's for all ages and all abilities because there's 12-year-old boys who are doing this and there's probably 70-year-old men and women who are doing this and people who would identify as cyclists and people who probably wouldn't identify as a cyclist. I mean, what a cool community.

Nick Gevock [00:08:38 - 00:09:14]

Yeah. It's, you know, and a lot of times people in the rural areas just join for the day or, you know, and then they develop a love of cycling and, you know, I'll just, The city of Des Moines now has over 260 miles of bicycle trails. Some of those go, you know, 40 miles out of the city to small towns. And, you know, so it's just a fantastic event. And it really, again, has built that culture of cycling. It certainly did in me and really shaped my life because of, because I Love cycling to this day.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:14 - 00:09:24]

Yeah. So let's, let's stay on that same track there. What was your next tour after 12 years old? Did you come back for RAGBRAI, or when was your next big thing that you had done?

Nick Gevock [00:09:25 - 00:10:16]

So I rode RAGBRAI through middle school and high school, and then, you know, and of course rode bikes throughout the summer. And then when I got into college, I often— I went to the University of Iowa and Okay. In eastern Iowa, in Iowa City. And every spring, my, some of my friends, we had this really tight-knit group of cyclists at, in Iowa City, we would leave in early May and head on up and I would tour around, right up to a little town called McGregor, Iowa, which is really stunning. It's set right on the Mississippi River in all that hardwood timber and all those bluffs. One of my college buddy's parents retired there in a cabin on the bluff. And we would just go up there and it was early May, it was just magical. It wasn't too hot, it wasn't cold.

Nick Gevock [00:10:17 - 00:11:01]

And then I would tour throughout that sort of— I'd head over to Madison, Wisconsin, sometimes head on up all the way to Minneapolis. So I toured in the Upper Midwest a bit. And then when I graduated college, I studied anthropology at Iowa and worked in archaeology. And I finished with an archaeological field school in France. And I was 22. I'm like, you know, I have my degree. I don't really have a job waiting for me. So I took a bicycle and I did some touring in Europe, just in northeastern France, rode through southern Belgium, across Luxembourg in about 5, 6 hours, that tiny little burg, and then into Germany.

Nick Gevock [00:11:01 - 00:11:19]

And it was early fall, so I caught Germany during the wine fest. And everybody thinks of Germany and beer, but they actually produce quite a bit of quality white wine too. So it was just, you know, just a lot of fun. And again, it was touring and not racing. And that's what I love.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:20 - 00:11:34]

So talk about transitioning into a bike culture, right? Because Europe has now all the Euroveloroutes, and you must have had some really fascinating exposure to cycling in the community and probably other cyclists.

Nick Gevock [00:11:35 - 00:12:22]

Yeah, I mean, again, Europe has such a cycling culture. The road system is fantastic. People are accustomed to bikes. And, you know, basically back then, this is before Strava and all this, you bought the basic Michelin maps, right? And you just figured out how to find a route. And I love to tell this story. I, as I, as I, this is, I mean, before the Euro, right? Like, I'm in my 50s, but as I passed from the border from France into Belgium, a cyclist passed me and a few miles later he came pedaling up behind me. He was just on what we call a stick bike, no panniers. And part of being that age, of course, is I was touring with absolute junk.

Nick Gevock [00:12:22 - 00:12:57]

I had a Schwinn mountain bike and my panniers and a heavy tent. But he came up behind me and said something in French and I said, I don't speak French. I asked if he spoke— I did speak German and English. And he said, yes, I speak English. And we chatted and we ended up on this little beer deck in this little village in southern Belgium. And it's just, you know, there's timber around, mountain bikes are popping out of the timber, cyclists coming by. He ended up hosting me for the night. And, you know, that, that with his family, he was actually a, he had been a widower.

Nick Gevock [00:12:57 - 00:13:22]

It was a second family. So I met his adult son, came up on a bicycle. He had 2 boys around 10 and 12. They were on bikes. And it turns out, so this is, I rode through where the heart of the Battle of the Bulge was fought in World War II. And this village had a Sherman tank in it painted. It was like a shrine. It was just incredible.

Nick Gevock [00:13:22 - 00:14:04]

There were flower pots around it. I had an elderly woman tell me in broken English that, you know, I was just a little girl when the Americans came through here. But this guy turned out to be the first paratrooper in Belgian history, and he had served with a bunch of Americans. His name was Jean Milletis. I still remember it. And he hosted me. And, you know, that was just one of my introductions to, you know, being hosted like that and getting that hospitality and getting a homemade hot meal and a shower and all that. I want to tell one more story about Jean Milletis because Your listeners will think I'm making this up, but like every good— reality is always better than fiction.

Nick Gevock [00:14:04 - 00:14:41]

Years later, I was in Honduras, whole different— I was living in Honduras on an archaeology project. I met a retired Belgian couple who were driving their Mercedes Sprinter van up. They had taken the ferry, taken it on across the Atlantic, Eastern Canada, up to Alaska. They were down in Central America, and I Made some comment to them, oh, I've been in your country, I said. And yeah, I met a colonel, Jean Militis, and the guy jumped up and he said, what? He was my training officer in the military.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:41 - 00:14:42]

Stop it.

Nick Gevock [00:14:43 - 00:14:48]

Big tough guy, you mean? I was like, that's him. It really happened.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:49 - 00:14:50]

That is crazy.

Nick Gevock [00:14:50 - 00:15:14]

Yeah. So that speaks to how small the world is. But But, it was also, this guy had written several books about health after 50 and I Googled up his name years later. And, I mean, but it really introduced me to that hospitality. And, once you get that, especially when you're a 22-year-old broke college kid, right, or fresh college graduate.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:15 - 00:15:33]

Yeah. Wow, what a cool experience and very serendipitous too because you weren't on a formal network to meet people. It's just because you were riding bicycles and you had sort of that common baseline, that common thread that made the connection.

Nick Gevock [00:15:34 - 00:16:06]

Yeah. He worked for— he was a director of a charity and he used to go tour in Corsica. And so, you know, he had a little touring bike. He kind of did a version of what we might call credit card touring, like minimal bags and, you know, but But of course, this was before we had things like Warmshowers, you know, this, this community of, of touring cyclists. And, and on a quick note, a week ago, I just had my first Belgian ever here in Butte, Montana, where I live.

Jerry Kopack [00:16:06 - 00:16:06]

Okay.

Nick Gevock [00:16:07 - 00:16:18]

Doing— he joined, he was with 2 Americans. The 3 of them had all started separately. None of them knew each other and they met on the route. So, so cool.

Jerry Kopack [00:16:19 - 00:16:40]

Now I want to sort of pivot a little bit and start talking about maybe your Warmshowers experience, because it sounds like you had some really great experiences just from this one, this one episode. But were there other episodes throughout your tours, or was there something that made you feel like you wanted to be on the other side, to be a host? Is there something that kind of sticks in your mind?

Nick Gevock [00:16:41 - 00:17:40]

Well, Just in general, all those years of riding RAGBRAI when you're a teenager, when you're 14, or, you know, the hospitality of RAGBRAI, I come back to it. I don't mean people— well, I, you know, on RAGBRAI, people let us camp in their yards. You know, they often open up the house to showers. Obviously, that is unique to that week and 25,000 people rolling into a town of, you know, the host towns are usually at least 5,000 to 7,000, 8,000. So you got accustomed to that. But, you know, just, just the people with a, with a food stand, just the gen— the incredible generosity. And, you know, at some point in life, we all think about giving something back, right? Like, you've been such the recipient of generosity and, and just warmth and hosting. And I don't want to sound, you know, too flowery, but yeah, you're just like, you know, it's been extended upon me numerous times.

Nick Gevock [00:17:40 - 00:18:33]

And I want to Instead of saying pay it forward, I want to pay it back. So I started thinking about it. Now, my route to Butte, Montana involves graduate school in Missoula, Montana, and I'm on my 4th career. I went from archaeology to journalism, and then now I work in public policy for the Sierra Club doing conservation. But neither here nor there, years ago, I lived here in Butte, Montana. And my girlfriend and I at the time would do some little tours around just southwest Montana here, road tours primarily. And I'd run into some British guy or, you know, and just always wanted to be able to host them. I didn't really, I didn't own a home at the time, but just, you know, where are you going? And so it was always in the back of my mind that I wanted to host.

Nick Gevock [00:18:34 - 00:18:37]

And I don't even know what year Warmshowers was formed, Jerry.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:37 - 00:18:41]

Do you? Yeah, you're gonna put me on this. You're gonna put me on the spot, aren't you?

Nick Gevock [00:18:41 - 00:18:43]

I wasn't trying to.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:43 - 00:18:45]

Uh, I believe it's about 40 years old.

Nick Gevock [00:18:46 - 00:18:47]

Oh, really?

Jerry Kopack [00:18:48 - 00:18:57]

Which is longer than I thought, but I, I looked it up and I'm gonna get myself in trouble if I keep talking about this because I should know this number and I don't have it off the back of my, back of my head.

Nick Gevock [00:18:57 - 00:19:01]

Well, the exact number isn't important. I, I did not know that.

Jerry Kopack [00:19:01 - 00:19:14]

You know, I know it started very, very basic, right, with a, with a simple sort of spreadsheet with With, it was basically as a Rolodex of, of, of names and phone numbers of people through different locations. It was very, very basic, very primitive.

Nick Gevock [00:19:15 - 00:19:44]

Well, I'm learning something on this podcast. I love it. I did not know that. I certainly hadn't heard of it. I first heard of Warmshowers 4 or 5 years ago, you know, which is amazing. And of course here in, I mean, I went to graduate school in Missoula, Montana at the University of Montana. Of course, we all know about the Adventure Cycling Association. And you'd— so I just learned of it and I was just living in Helena, Montana, only 65 miles from Butte here.

Nick Gevock [00:19:44 - 00:20:09]

And it is on this Great Divide Mountain Bike Route as well as Butte here. But again, I just moved back to Butte 2 and a half years ago, bought a very humble but comfortable home, and the time was right. So literally, I bought this house in late February of '24 and I got signed up almost immediately. And it's been really rewarding. I've enjoyed every one.

Jerry Kopack [00:20:10 - 00:20:42]

Excellent. So, while you were talking, I did a quick internet search and what I've discovered, 50 years old, if you trace its roots back to 1976, when a bicycle tourist named John Mosley began keeping a Rolodex of a few hundred people willing to host touring cyclists. 33 years old as the formal Warmshowers organization was founded in 1993, and 21 years as an online map-based global community. Okay.

Nick Gevock [00:20:42 - 00:20:54]

Well, I, I, I had no idea. I thought, you know, I figured it was 15 years old, but I did not know that. I mean, there are other communities, Couchsurfer, right?

Jerry Kopack [00:20:54 - 00:21:14]

For just travelers and Yeah, but the, uh, the current version is definitely not that old with the, the modern platform, especially with an app. We launched an app, I think, 2 or 3 years ago, and we've redone the website, uh, once or twice since then as well, just to make things a more streamlined, more modern platform to really give people a great experience.

Nick Gevock [00:21:16 - 00:21:57]

Well, I gotta say, and I, I'm not just throwing roses their way, but how well laid out the web page is. You list what your facilities are, Yeah. You know, do you have some basic bike tools? Do you have secure bike storage? What do you have? Do you have camping? Because I've had as many as 5, 6 in a night. I think my max was 5, and this is a 950-square-foot house, you know, but I have, well, and then I have a basement with a guest room, which is a, has no windows. It is very dark, which they love. It's a dungeon. And I have a fire ring in the backyard. I have a carport, which is lovely because it's shade.

Nick Gevock [00:21:58 - 00:22:18]

We often eat meals out there. And then I have a garage where we can, not that theft is a problem here, but put, some people want their bikes in the garage. Of course, they can lock it to the carport outside, but, you know, and of course laundry and, and, and just all the things a touring cyclist needs. Yes.

Jerry Kopack [00:22:18 - 00:22:34]

So let's stay along that same line because you started out as a touring cyclist. And do you think that that helps you or gives you an idea as far as what another touring cyclist would want or need now that you're a host?

Nick Gevock [00:22:35 - 00:23:05]

Absolutely. I mean, you know, and I've seen some people roll in here pretty beat— I don't want to say beat up, but dirty and tired and their bikes having some issues and their clothes are all filthy, especially on the Great Divide. But I had a really nice couple from California and she looked at me and she said, well, why do you do Warmshowers? And I looked at her simply and said, because I've been you.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:06 - 00:23:06]

Yeah.

Nick Gevock [00:23:08 - 00:23:18]

And so, You know, I make sure that everybody leaves here well-fed, all their laundry's done. They, I mean, you know, 90% of it is they want a hot shower, right?

Jerry Kopack [00:23:19 - 00:23:19]

Yeah.

Nick Gevock [00:23:19 - 00:23:51]

Because, and especially here in Butte, Montana, because the vast majority of my riders are doing the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route, which is just booming in popularity. I mean, and every year gets more and more popular. And frankly, I personally think road touring is waning in popularity just because of safety and Um, I mean, that's not entirely true. I've had quite a few road cyclists, but, but the vast majority of mine are doing the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:52 - 00:24:15]

Yeah. And you and I have that in common. We're both on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route. So people, I think that traditionally people have been starting in the north. I know the race itself starts in the north, goes south. I'm kind of right in the middle in Breckenridge. So it's entirely possible that you and I could be referring people to one another. So we could be hosting the same groups, I'm sure, pretty easily.

Nick Gevock [00:24:16 - 00:24:43]

Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's really interesting because Warmshowers, I look in Missoula, Montana, there are literally some 30 to 35 hosts. And, and Missoula is the, is a, you know, it's a college town. It has a huge cycling culture. It is the headquarters of the Adventure Cycling Association. There's 4 of us here and there are 4 of us here in Butte, Montana. And we're on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route. And so we get a lot, you know.

Nick Gevock [00:24:44 - 00:25:17]

And the other thing, this was pointed out to me by one of my riders just, just a couple weeks ago. Butte and Helena, which are almost the same size, about 32,000, 33,000 residents, are easily the 2 largest cities on the entire Great Divide Mountain Bike Route. Yeah, for sure. The other thing is, and this was pointed out to me just a week ago, once they leave Butte, if they're southbound, there's not another bicycle shop until Steamboat Springs, Colorado.

Jerry Kopack [00:25:17 - 00:25:18]

Is that right?

Nick Gevock [00:25:18 - 00:25:26]

Oh, wait a minute. No, yet. No, wait a minute. I'm testing myself here. I would, of course, Jackson, Wyoming, but Jackson's not actually on the route.

Jerry Kopack [00:25:26 - 00:25:27]

I don't think it is.

Nick Gevock [00:25:27 - 00:26:07]

They skirt north of there. I should know the route better, but yeah. They don't hit a bike— they do not hit a bicycle shop until Steamboat Springs because they must not go into West Yellowstone, Montana. There's a bicycle shop there. But yeah, I think they are, you know, so if they're having mechanical issues and we have one outstanding bicycle shop in Butte, you know, Butte's kind of an old mining town, but there's a relatively new bike shop here called the Derailed Bicycle Shop. Wonderful people, excellent mechanic, and he gets a ton of people who come in here. And then Helena has 2 really quality bike shops in 65 miles north of here.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:08 - 00:26:49]

Yeah. And I actually work part-time in a bicycle shop called Carver's in Breckenridge. And so we see a ton of people roll through. And actually recently there were 3 people from Minnesota. I think they were maybe late 20s, early 30s, and they came through Happy to host them. My partner is from Minnesota, so it was just this big Midwestern kind of party at my house. And then there was another guy who was older, probably maybe 50s, and I think he was a recent retiree, recently empty nester, and he was doing the Colorado Trail. And he came through to get some service done on his bike.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:50 - 00:27:32]

And he asked me, he's like, hey, is there any Are there any hotels in Breckenridge that you would recommend? I said, Breckenridge is going to be kind of expensive. It's just kind of the place that we, that we live in. Have you ever heard of Warmshowers? And he said he had not. And I said, well, sir, you are in for a treat. I said, we have a very full house, but I— we can make room for one more because I think it would be a lot of fun to, to show you what Warmshowers can offer you. And I sound like I'm trying to pitch a cult here or something like that. But anyways, he, uh, he took me up on the offer and And he stayed. And I will happily say that before we had finished dinner, he had done a little side work on his phone and had joined the community.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:32 - 00:27:51]

So he's, uh, he didn't know what to expect, you know, sleeping on the floor in some stranger's house, but he definitely had a really good time. And, you know, there are some people that, you mean, you probably have hosted a lot of people. I, we've hosted a lot of people as well, and every experience has been fantastic, but there are certain people that you just kind of really click with.

Nick Gevock [00:27:52 - 00:27:52]

Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:52 - 00:28:04]

And this guy's name was Paul. I think we're gonna, we're gonna stay in contact with. And, and once he's finished with his traveling, I'm gonna ask him to come back on the show and just sort of give his perspective of, uh, his experience along the way. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.

Nick Gevock [00:28:05 - 00:28:11]

So, well, to, to all that, you, you said a cult, but I— the, the better word is it's a community, right?

Jerry Kopack [00:28:11 - 00:28:12]

Yes, of course it is.

Nick Gevock [00:28:12 - 00:28:18]

Of course. I mean, but, uh, first off, when you had the Minnesotans, did you serve up some hot dish, or did you—

Jerry Kopack [00:28:18 - 00:28:44]

Uh, I actually was coming home from work, so I sent them ahead of ahead of me before I got out of the shop that day. It's my partner was there. And so she handled everything. And our kind of our go-to staple is burritos because you just kind of have a bunch of different things you can stuff in there. And I don't know, I haven't, I have yet to have someone who came through and said they didn't like Mexican food or burritos. So that was, that's our kind of our easy staple.

Nick Gevock [00:28:44 - 00:29:24]

You can make it with, you know, chicken or pork if they're, if they choose, you can, or if they're vegetarian, you can make a black bean burrito or refrieds. It's, yeah, I serve up a lot of that too. But I actually, well, I'm a fair chase ethical hunter and I often have elk meat in the freezer and I offer that. And of course I'm very respectful of people's personal dietary choices, but some of them just love the elk steak or burgers or whatnot. But yeah, just getting to the, I have a story similar. We have an amazing music festival here in Butte, Montana called the Montana Folk Festival. It is 5 stages. It's all free.

Nick Gevock [00:29:24 - 00:29:49]

It's in mid-July. And I was up there. I always volunteer at that every year. And I was up there and saw a couple bikepacking bikes at the information booth. I said, where's your cyclists? And they said, oh, they're down at the food court. So I went up there and it's pretty easy to pick out the cyclist, right? And he was on the phone. And once he was done, I went up to him and just said, you need a place to stay. He's like, yeah, I do actually.

Nick Gevock [00:29:49 - 00:30:29]

And he did know about Warmshowers. But, you know, I've had friends up and down the route that live here in Montana who refer people to me. They don't all come through the website, I guess I'm saying. But I think more and more people do know about it, whether their home and living situation makes it possible for them to do so. But, you know, and I also I feel bad, but I do travel a lot for my job with the Sierra Club. And then of course I take vacations like anyone else. So you're gone a lot too and you feel terrible, but that's just, you know, you do have a life, right? So, I mean, yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:30 - 00:30:35]

Does it make you, when you host people, does it kind of get you excited to get out on the bike and tour yourself?

Nick Gevock [00:30:36 - 00:31:06]

Absolutely. Yeah. And the interesting thing is I've never done this Great Divide Mountain Bike Route. I think So I lived in Butte from 2008 to 2012 before I moved to Helena for a job. And I remember the early days of this Great Divide Mountain Bike Route because I was doing a tour. My girlfriend and I were doing a short road tour. We came across a guy riding on one of the frontage roads off Interstate 15, which is part of the route. And those were the relatively early days of this route.

Nick Gevock [00:31:06 - 00:31:17]

I mean, Adventure Cycling created this. So where am I going with this? I think what really boosted this was honestly Ryan Van Duzer, if you know who he is, and the YouTube.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:17 - 00:31:25]

Ryan's a friend of mine. He grew up in Boulder. I spent most of my adult life and formative years in Boulder as well. So Ryan and I know each other. Yeah.

Nick Gevock [00:31:26 - 00:31:34]

Yeah, he's just great. You know, he's such a, like, he's just so psyched about cycling. He's done a bunch of RAGBRAIs. Have you seen his videos?

Jerry Kopack [00:31:35 - 00:31:36]

Yeah, we've talked about it.

Nick Gevock [00:31:36 - 00:31:53]

I've seen him on the ride. But, you know, he, he had one of his YouTube— I haven't seen a ton of his videos, but quite a few. And he said, of all the routes I've done, my favorite is the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route. And in fact, he's completing it right now as we speak. He's down in southern New Mexico.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:53 - 00:31:54]

I saw that.

Nick Gevock [00:31:54 - 00:32:24]

He's just that. So in the course of doing this, I've had— okay, here we go. I've had French, I've had an Irishman. I had a guy from South Africa, obviously Americans, Canadians. I've had, let's see, Australians. I had a request. I was out of state, but from 4 women from Poland who were going to stay. Loads of Brits there.

Nick Gevock [00:32:24 - 00:33:07]

That last summer was like the British invasion here. They were, I just had a ton of Brits. And then a week ago, I had my first Belgian, which was kind of cool. So I'm keeping track of nationalities. I'll tell you one quick story. The German guy I had last summer had left Germany, pedaled down through Turkey, went across the 'stans like Kazakhstan and all this into China, rode across China, flew to Vancouver, British Columbia, rode across southern British Columbia, hit the Great Divide and was heading down to Tierra del Fuego. Yeah, he was, he sat here and ate. He was about 3% body fat.

Nick Gevock [00:33:08 - 00:33:09]

Wow.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:10 - 00:33:27]

He's, he's living a good life. That is some impressive traveling. Yeah. Good for him. Have you, through all the people that you've hosted, have you also received reciprocal invitations to say, hey, if you're ever in Poland or in Germany or Belgium, Come look me up.

Nick Gevock [00:33:27 - 00:33:46]

Absolutely. Yeah, that's especially so. I should get back. I didn't. Yes, this doing this makes me want to do the Great Divide, although I'd probably do it in legs. I mean, some people do the whole thing. Others are just doing it in 2, 3 week stretches here and there, but absolutely. So I'm making plans.

Nick Gevock [00:33:46 - 00:34:45]

3 summers ago, I rode, I did a road tour from north of Or from just outside Seattle to East Glacier, Montana. That was a lot of fun, but it, it did sour me a little bit on road touring. Just again, the same things that we all talk about is cars and safety and all that. But, um, but yes, I'm planning in 2 summers to head, fly into Paris, head out to the coast, coast of Normandy, go to the very tip of Brest in Brittany. And then down the Atlantic coast of France into Spain and the Pyrenees, cut across southern Spain. I'm going to meet a buddy in Nice who has— who will get a condo there, like an Airbnb, and do some day rides and then head into northern Italy. But yeah, it just gets you psyched. And obviously I have a career and I'm busy with everything, but I'm going to have an opportunity in a couple of years to take like a 2-month bicycle tour and I want to head to Europe.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:46 - 00:35:33]

God, I love that. Now let me ask you this, because when I start hearing about these extended bike tours, and I'll preface this by saying I too have not done the Great Divide, even though I see hundreds of people roll through my front yard every year, every summer. Uh, it's on my list. I haven't done it, but I've spent the bulk of my time in, in Europe as well, but I kind of gravitate towards, towards Southeast Asia and also Central Asia, I guess you would call it too, like Kyrgyzstan and also India and Nepal. And, when I hear you talk about taking these 2-month trips, I start just geeking out about it too because that is where I— for me personally, if I can travel with an extended timeline and not worrying about, okay, if it rains tomorrow, I'm going to be really in trouble because I have a flight 4 days from now.

Nick Gevock [00:35:34 - 00:35:34]

Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:34 - 00:35:40]

Tell me about the mental shift that that goes through your mind when you take an extended trip like this?

Nick Gevock [00:35:41 - 00:36:21]

Well, you just touched on when I did that Northwest tour 3 years ago, I intended to ride into the 50th RAGBRAI. And I, but I was just pushing so hard to get there. And I, I love to tell this story. I was in north central Washington State in a little town, Republic, Washington, almost in Canada, right? That's the northern tier of Adventure Cycling's route. And I chatted with a guy who was 70 years old. He left, he was from the Boston area, left on March 20th. And it was mid-June. And he said, you know, I do 50 miles a day.

Nick Gevock [00:36:22 - 00:36:53]

And I just thought to myself, you know what, you're my hero. You're 70 years old and you just rode your bicycle across the United States. And so I don't think I ever want to do another bike tour where I feel pushed. You know, where I'm putting in 80-mile days and just, you know, 60. Yeah. On a road tour somewhere in there. That's, you know, if you're doing 12 miles an hour, that's 5 hours in the saddle. But, you know, and I think that's a luxury of having a few more means as you get older and whatnot.

Nick Gevock [00:36:53 - 00:37:21]

But I just, you know, if there's a cool town you want to hang out in and take a day off, take a day off. If you want to go fly fishing or Whatever, if you catch an amazing music festival. And so I'm really looking forward as I get older to having the time to just take some tours where, you know, a 35, 40-mile day is just fine. I mean, it's a vacation, not a mission. Right.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:22 - 00:37:38]

And I love that you brought up meeting that person in their 70s because I think it really frames this discussion. in a way that bicycle touring isn't just for people of a certain age. You started when you were 12. Actually, I think you said you were 11 when you first started this.

Nick Gevock [00:37:38 - 00:37:38]

Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:38 - 00:38:37]

And then you're meeting people in their 70s. And I hosted a German couple in our home a couple of years ago that I've still stayed in contact with because they're wonderful people. But they were retired in their, I think, early to mid-70s. And they were down in Morocco last time I talked to them, cycling through the High Atlas Mountains. And it just really Drives home the point that this is— it's a timeless, uh, it's a timeless activity. And I talked about this on a, on a recent show where there are people who are runners and it seems like there's only so many marathons that maybe your knees can take before your knees say, okay, I've had enough. But, you know, cycling, you can go at a certain pace, you can do 20-mile days, you can do 80-mile days, but it's really— it's a timeless kind of pastime and look at the community that you can make, the people you can come across with and really connect with just because you're traveling at what someone else called bicycle speed. Yeah.

Nick Gevock [00:38:38 - 00:39:09]

Well, yeah. And for so much to unpack there, it's, I just love cycling because I hate running and I respect runners. I, you know, this is, I'm a live and let live kind of guy and it's like, that's their thing. I don't like the shock on my knees and ankles. And I'm a terrible runner, but people like that. But what is great about cycling is that overall ease on your body. And it is just the most wonderful activity. I'm an alpine skier.

Nick Gevock [00:39:10 - 00:39:14]

It is the best cross-training for skiing you will ever get, ever have.

Jerry Kopack [00:39:15 - 00:39:15]

Yeah.

Nick Gevock [00:39:15 - 00:39:47]

And then lastly, the other thing, I love to backpack. I've done 8-night backpacks that are epic, but I see the Continental Divide hikers, and I have zero desire to do that. I respect it. That's their thing. When I did that tour, I stayed in East Glacier, Montana. I ended up meeting a guy on that tour from Pennsylvania, and we camped at this kind of little sort of hostel-like lodge. There were literally almost 40 tents in the yard. We were the only 2 cyclists.

Nick Gevock [00:39:49 - 00:40:06]

And they were, you know, and chatting with them, that's their own culture. But what I love about biking is you get somewhere, right? Like, I mean, it's to do 60-mile days, 6 days a week on a road tour is not that difficult, you know?

Jerry Kopack [00:40:07 - 00:40:07]

Yeah.

Nick Gevock [00:40:07 - 00:40:44]

And then, you know, so you can just see in Europe with all the amazing architecture and the culture and the food and everything, you know, it's just the perfect pace to say, I'm going to do 50-mile days. And, you know, I hope I'm doing it in my Early 80s still. Well, we'll see about that. But, you know, it is a great, it is a great, it's just such a great activity. And again, you get somewhere and frankly, compared to when I was 22, I have much nicer gear and you don't want to go nuts and geek out on the gear, but it does make a difference.

Jerry Kopack [00:40:44 - 00:41:11]

Sure. Sure. I mean, you know, above and beyond, you just, you want reliability, right? So you don't want the wheel to fall off in the middle of your tour. You don't want your panniers to rip open and Yes. And spill all your stuff out. But exactly. But the same point, I remember my first tour was, was in Spain, it was in the Pyrenees. And I told a story on a recent show and I, my bike costs $50 and I was a cyclist at the time, but I wasn't a bike tourer.

Jerry Kopack [00:41:11 - 00:42:00]

I had no idea what bike touring or bikepacking or bike traveling even meant, but someone had planted this idea in my mind to get a bike and then put a rack on there and get some, some panniers. And I think my entire setup probably costs $100. And I did as a credit card tour, like you had mentioned, where I just stayed at different hostels or pensions throughout Spain. And it just completely changed my life to the point where, you know, I started getting maybe a nicer bike and maybe different gear. Then I sort of pivoted to doing more off-road stuff. Instead of having this 1982 Peugeot road bike, I got a mountain bike. I got a Surly mountain bike. And then I started putting knobby tires on things and, you know, Sort of along the progression of the Great Divide, getting more and more off-road just because I felt it was more peaceful.

Jerry Kopack [00:42:00 - 00:42:07]

Not that road touring is bad, but it just kind of suited my mind a little bit better and being more remote.

Nick Gevock [00:42:08 - 00:42:26]

Well, and when you have one of those bike getups, I too, I have a rigid 29er mountain bike that will be the bike I take on the Great Divide. And, you know, but it would be a great bike to go ride around Ireland, you know, because you get some rough roads. And when you have that bike, you know that you can go basically anywhere.

Jerry Kopack [00:42:27 - 00:42:27]

Yeah.

Nick Gevock [00:42:27 - 00:43:13]

And I think that's why I, I'm not as interested in the bikepacking. But of course, one of the other joys of Warmshowers is if you like gear, you get to sort of geek out on everybody's bikes. I, I've seen brands of bicycles from the Europeans that I've never heard of. And, you know, and I, I read stuff and I mean, you know, I know about some of the British bikes, Ribble, and then the French had some Decathlon house brand bikes, which if you know Decathlon, It's sort of the REI of France and expanding. But I mean, there was a sonder I hadn't, you know, and, but more than that, you look at the pannier getups they have and what kind of tents they bring. And I had a guy who sewed, hand sewed his own panniers. Like he made them.

Jerry Kopack [00:43:13 - 00:43:14]

Yeah.

Nick Gevock [00:43:14 - 00:43:33]

It was, I mean, anyway, so, but, but that is the nice thing about this bikepacking trend. I mean, I have a bike now that I could ride across Mongolia with. And certainly could handle, you know, I've heard Ireland has some pretty, pretty rugged roads that, so, you know, it gives you that freedom to go just about anywhere.

Jerry Kopack [00:43:34 - 00:43:41]

You mentioned those 2 countries. Are they, are they on your list or are they just as far away from your comfort zone as you can think of with Mongolia?

Nick Gevock [00:43:41 - 00:44:15]

Yeah, I don't know. Mongolia would be a challenge. Certainly Ireland is, you know, I'm going to take my road touring bike to France because, you know, I put like 40mm tires on it and it can handle a gravel road. Just because the road system is wonderful and they might take some bike trails and be— actually, Jerry, I just learned about Eurovelo in the last couple of weeks. Yeah. Okay. I don't, you know, but it sounds like they are more or less Europe's version of the Adventure Cycling Association. Is that a fair analogy?

Jerry Kopack [00:44:16 - 00:44:28]

That is the way I understand it. And people who I've had on this show have talked about it. It sounds like they just have this really dialed-in network throughout Europe. So it's on my list as well, just to check out some of their routes.

Nick Gevock [00:44:29 - 00:45:23]

You know, this is something of a digression, but one of the great things about this Great Divide Mountain Bike Route is the people in Montana are just embracing this. There's a little town, and I mean little, like maybe under 200 people north of Butte here called Basin, and the community center has been opened to touring cyclists to crash, but they didn't have a shower. Well, over the course of last winter, they built a shower there. And the cafe people, the woman there just loves to host cyclists in, and they get the posts, you know, up on Facebook, on the Great Divide Facebook page. There's something there every day about the people they've hosted. Obviously Helena is a our state capital in a small city of 32,000 people. It has all the resources. There's a bicycle camp there.

Nick Gevock [00:45:24 - 00:46:08]

There's a legendary, among Great Divide riders, a place called the Llama Ranch north of Helena. They host people, everything's free. And I mean, I am going to drive up there someday just to meet these people. In Lincoln, Montana, there's a bar with a small patch of grass in the back and they took a some spray paint on a piece of plywood and painted Cyclists Welcome. You know, in Ovando, Montana, population 60 in the town, maybe, maybe 80, I don't know. There's a church where they put people up in the basement, you know, so people are really embracing this Great Divide Route. And people tell me the hospitality in Montana has been fantastic for them.

Jerry Kopack [00:46:08 - 00:46:40]

I've heard that too. And I love that you brought up Ryan Van Duzer because I'm going to make sure I get him on the show as well because he's a good guy. He's a friend of mine. He's definitely a personality. But, to your point, yeah, it's been amazing to see the growth of The Great Divide, the growth of people with their experience and awareness of Warmshowers and just getting more people out on their bikes and seeing the world at that bike speed.

Nick Gevock [00:46:40 - 00:46:40]

Wow.

Jerry Kopack [00:46:40 - 00:46:52]

Because I talk about this a lot on different shows. You can get in your car and go to all these places, but you miss all the in-between stuff. And then that's really the beauty of why we bicycle tour.

Nick Gevock [00:46:53 - 00:47:30]

Yeah, it is. It's just such an amazing way to travel the way and people's reaction to you. You know, when I did that Northwest tour 3 summers ago, I mean, you're the guy people kind of want to talk to. You know, it's, what are you doing? They check out your bike. They, it's, it's, it's really fun. I had some Boy, I had some experiences on that. I came off a mountain pass in Eastern Washington in 42 degrees and driving rain, just braced right on the bars. But I had, again, a quality raincoat.

Nick Gevock [00:47:30 - 00:48:04]

Everything was fine except my hands and feet, but dried out anyway. But anyway, people, there's something about— somebody said this to me once. I'm not a motorcyclist, but I have friends who bicycle tour and still ride motorcycles and take rides. And they say, just kind of people's reaction to you when you're open-air, you're not in a vehicle. And even the motorcyclists, you know, they think, oh, that's pretty cool. But, you know, it's— I hope it continues. I hope cycling continues to grow. I hope that the Great Divide is not an anomaly.

Nick Gevock [00:48:04 - 00:48:28]

And I know there are more entities trying to create these, this rail trail system across the United States, which I, well, it largely exists, but it's very broken up. And by the way, Butte is on the Great American Rail Trail, but this is a gap in it here. So I have had people riding across the country on what is the Great American Rail Trail. And this is a section that we need to fill in. But—

Jerry Kopack [00:48:29 - 00:48:53]

Yeah. So I feel like, Nick, you and I have so much in common, we could probably keep talking for the next couple of hours and not run out of topics. But I want to start bringing this home here and wrapping up, looking back at a lifetime of cycle touring and now hosting. What do you think it is about this community of touring cyclists in this environment that's so special?

Nick Gevock [00:48:57 - 00:49:41]

I just think that they're just good people. I don't know how else to put it. I haven't had a person yet that I didn't enjoy. And I think that this sense of giving something back, you know, and then of course it makes travel so much affordable for everyone, so much more affordable, I should say. And you know what I want to do in retirement, you'll see this in a lot of Adventure Cycling's materials is, you know, there are people who want to sit on a beach with a with a cocktail. And that's fine, to each their own. But they're like, that's just not what I want to do. But honestly, when you look at your own financial planning and what— I mean, the things I want to do in retirement really aren't that expensive.

Nick Gevock [00:49:41 - 00:50:24]

I mean, and so, and Warmshowers. I mean, the biggest cost for everyone is going to be hotels or campgrounds, right? And you're going to have— you're going to need some of that. But just the people you meet, you truly— it truly is a global community of touring cyclists. And I can't wait to take advantage of it. In fact, I'm really going to brush up on my French before I head to France in 2 years. And my daughter's going to join me for a couple weeks of that. But to be honest with you, I haven't had the opportunity yet to do a really extended tour. I've done some 2 and 3 week tours, which are super fun, but I'm in my working years and I'm going to have that opportunity.

Nick Gevock [00:50:24 - 00:50:48]

But I just think that, like you said, bicycle speed, I think Van Duzer touches on this, the ability to get 60 miles with, you know, to stay fit, to enjoy the landscapes, the food, the people, just all of it. It is what I want to do most in retirement. I literally hope I can do it through my 70s.

Jerry Kopack [00:50:49 - 00:51:11]

I have no doubt That you will still be doing that. And I hope that I still have the opportunity to keep talking to cyclists for years to come. And so when you do end up doing your big Eurovelo tour, I want you to reach back out to me and I want to hear your experiences from that in a couple of years. I think it's going to be a really cool show to talk to you about that one.

Nick Gevock [00:51:12 - 00:51:25]

Nice. Yeah. Well, you know, also, Gerry, I take other cycling vacations. I ride mountain bikes. In fact, I'm going to do a stout ride this evening, but So, I might look you up in Breckenridge one of these years. It'll be on the floor.

Jerry Kopack [00:51:26 - 00:51:31]

Please do. And, when I do finally decide to do the Great Divide, I'm going to roll through Butte and I'm going to look you up.

Nick Gevock [00:51:32 - 00:51:46]

There'll be not just a hot shower, a fridge full of beer, chilled white wine, bubbly water, regular water, and there'll be a hot meal and you'll leave here clean with all your laundry done and hopefully happier.

Jerry Kopack [00:51:47 - 00:52:18]

Awesome. Well, Nick, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. And if you're listening out there and you're rolling through Butte on the Great Divide, look him up. All right, everybody. I want to thank you for listening to my conversation today with Nick Jivock. I hope stories like these will inspire you to set off on your own bicycle adventure, maybe even open up your home to a traveler who's passing through, because really, that's how this community continues to grow. So until then, keep the wheels rolling and the stories coming. Thanks for joining us on Bike Life.

Jerry Kopack [00:52:19 - 00:52:50]

I'm Jerry Kopak, and I hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as we enjoyed sharing it with you. Please leave us a rating and review, or just tell your friends. This helps us reach more cyclists and hosts around the world. To learn more or become part of this amazing community, visit us at warmshowers.com. Or follow us on Instagram @warmshowers_org. If you'd like to be a guest on the show or have a question you'd like us to explore, email us at podcast@warmshowers.org.