The Hour of the Wolf | For the Second Time

[0:44] The year is 2026. The name of the podcast, Babylon 5, for the second time. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the second time. My name is Brent Allen. And I'm Jeff Akin. Brent and I used to be Star Trek podcasters, and then we watched Babylon 5 for the first time, and that changed everything. So now we're watching this incredible series for the second time, because Babylon 5 is a series that you get to watch for the first time twice. That's right. And for the second time, for the first time, Jeff and I are looking for the messages that are contained within Babylon five, maybe ones that JMS meant to put in there, maybe ones we just pick out, you know, things that hold up a mirror to society, give us hope that things can be better in the future, or just tell us how to be better human beings to one another. Now, that being said, this is our second time through the series. We have made it all the way through for the first time for ourselves. We did that completely spoiler free with a show called Babylon 5 for the first time. This is for the second time. So that being said, it is fair game for Jeff and I to talk about anything from any point in the timeline, from any point in the franchise, in-universe, out-of-universe, does not matter. It is all fair game for Jeff and I to talk about. So if this is your first time through the series, you've never been there, this is not the show for you. It is time for you to stop playing this, press pause for a while, go join us for the first watch, and then come back and join us.

[2:08] For this, once you have gotten through the entire first run, this is your one and only spoiler warning. Please take it seriously. My warning is sincere. Ignore it at your own peril.

[2:21] This week, Brent, we're kicking off season four with the Hour of the Wolf. The first time we watched these episodes, we made predictions about what we thought they were going to be based on the title alone. And my prediction was that the Babylon 5, the station, was going to be sending search parties out for Sheridan. uh, just trying to find out what, what happened to him.

[2:41] And then we'd spend time with Garibaldi inside the shadow ship because that was, you know, the secret mission of course was for him to get abducted by a shadow ship. And that secret mission, man, I'm super interested to find out what that's all about. Eventually we'll find out for sure. But that was my prediction. I went pretty, pretty basic high level on it. Do you, what did, uh, what did you predict for it? Yeah i wasn't super super um uh specific on it i just said it'd kind of be a very mild episode sort of figuring out what happened now that that with everything that's been going on i thought that it was possible avanova might get promoted to captain of the station although i wasn't sure who would do the promoting of her right like who's in the chain of command now she's just it she's kind of it right um i didn't i very specifically though said we're not going to see sheridan until like the final shot of the episode like he's going to be walking into frame so i honestly don't remember jeff if we see sheridan in this episode until the final shot or not but we're going to find out here i don't yeah i don't remember do you want to uh really quick check out some of the things we said the first time around i would love to do that right previously on babylon 5 for the first time the hour of the wolf um i've got mad feelings and mad thoughts about Kosh 2.0. You don't get the feeling that this is a good deal.

[4:01] I am more interested in this Kosh and the Vorlons than I've ever been before. Delenn was talking to him like they're old buddies. They've got a longstanding relationship. And he gave her no time whatsoever like they've had a longstanding relationship. Lita just has this look on her face the whole time of just like, I don't like this. When she's like, this doesn't feel right. It feels dark. But he's literally like, here's your union mandated break. Yeah. Go. Let me go. Mass Effect. Old Kosh was the paragon, and this one's the renegade. Lita came and said, hey, sorry we didn't return your calls. Kosh was on really late with the Vorlon homeworld last night, where there's something going on with the Vorlons. I loved Morden's line. Yeah, if there's a psychopath sitting on the throne, you and Rifa put him there. He's your problem. I loved everything about him. He is horrible, and he's gross, and he's egotistical, and he's pompous and arrogant, and played to perfection. He's going full on Nero.

[5:01] Londo full on bags on the Emperor right in front of his face. I cannot wait for Londo to kill him. He's going to wreak some havoc and people are going to come in here and et tu brute this dude. The minister that came and met Londo. Mr. Jokey Joker. He really annoyed me at first. There's the moment where Londo comes out and he's like, dude is insane. His voice came down, right? You got a little bass in there and he's just like, dude, shut your mouth. You don't say it. You just play along. And in that moment, like I get this guy, I really want to know who this dude is down in the cave. So I have, I have this theory. I don't think he's on Zaha doom. And I don't even necessarily think he's in our time or space. Whoa. Like everything about this dude shouts. Good guy to me. Can I share your fire? Can I, Oh, that's the right question. Is that due to first one?

[5:55] We're going to get to see what Sheridan goes through and then comes, comes back as the new Sheridan. Veer loves Londo as a father. Londo has come to love Veer as a son. I'm serious. I will lose, I will lose my mind if in this next episode, they're like, oh, come here to the great egg. Right. Initiating getting the hell out of here maneuver. And now the conclusion.

[6:20] There's a lot of stuff in there i didn't remember happened in this episode at all i didn't either uh mr jokey joker yeah i think come on brent it it evolves it grew it got better it got better jokey mcjokerson yeah right that's his name that that like that is his official name it's they have a a pop funko of him and that's actually what it says is jokey mcjokerson makes sense that one five it's kind of what it should say so after that little uh taste of what's to come what do you say we actually dive in and check the episode out well i wait i have a question though oh you do yeah i want to i want to i want to ask one of the questions that you asked in that video oh is lorian in our time and space like is where they were is where they were is that you know what i mean yeah is that actually in our time and space or is that out in like some sort of ethereal limbo area well i think it's somewhere between the tick and the talk wherever that is Maybe in our space, not in our time. I don't know. Some would say that space-time is actually the same thing. They would. But we're not going to answer that question in this episode. No. But you know what question we can't answer? What's that? Is he a first one? Not in this one. Oh, but we can answer it right now as people who've veteran seen this. He's not a first one. He's the first one. Right?

[7:35] So close to that. So close to that. Yes, you're right. Let's jump into this episode and see what's the what. Let's do it. If you're joining us for the first time on this one, we've got three awesome seasons behind us that you can check out as well. But we're super happy that you are here now. Every episode is somebody's first. We're super happy that you chose this one to start with. What's about to happen is Brent and I are going to watch the episode right now, pull it up, watch it with you. We're going to talk about it, react, do all that kind of stuff. On YouTube, you're going to see the edited version of this, like the chopped up reaction video. The full unedited version is available on our Patreon page at patreon.com slash bad nerds. And if you're hanging out on an audio podcasting platform or something of that nature, uh, stick around you're going to hear the audio from that reaction we'll have lots of conversations in the middle of that and then you'll get all the other stuff on the other side jeff, let's do a thing let's do it accessing file previously on babylon five oh if you go to the, Each of these devices, even though I know it's almost certainly a trap. You know, we often give Andreas Katsoulas a lot of credit for his face acting through all the makeup. Mira Furlan in that whole scene with Sheridan talking. She said not a word and it just pierces you in the heart. Right, right.

[9:04] Okay, so Garibaldi secret mission. Here's what you and I know watching that right now. We can look at that and see that the ship is actually like inside the shadow ship. Yes. It's flying through, right? When we watched that the first time, at least when I watched that the first time, it looked to me like it was actually outside attached to the side of the shadow ship. Oh, okay. Like he had landed on it and he's attached himself there on purpose. That's what it looked like to me the first time around. Now I look at it. I mean, I can see the wispy waves. Also, does that mean that shadow ships are rather transparent in nature? Translucent maybe? Something. then like it just once they get thick enough they they turn to shadow and you can't see through them there's enough layers sort of a thing it's wispy it's not maybe actually maybe it's not actually solid material it's like so many layers of translucence like some resin board sort of a thing right right it was the year of fire the year of this so this new opening there's lots that jms talked about with this new oh i bet yeah right one of the biggest things is he says now Now with this one, like every, every one so far has been like from a different viewpoint. Like it started with Sinclair and then it was Sharon and then it was Ivanova. Right. Um, it was like this one and we're finally getting everybody's viewpoint. That's everybody is in there. So they were very, they very, we're very stoked about that. They finished it and they showed it to a bunch of people. Everybody was all, Oh, that was great.

[10:25] Like, this is the scene, to me, that defines the whole episode.

[10:31] As far as my memory goes. Everybody's got a message. Oh, this is Sheridan's quarters. No? Ivanova's quarters. We have already discussed this. Yes, but we haven't finished discussing it. And when are we to be finished? As soon as you agree to my proposal. As soon as you do things my way. If you're having a problem with comprehension, Comprehension, perhaps you should borrow the game's translator.

[10:57] Stop that. Please, please. The issues before us, extreme. So one of the things JMS was asked about this is, man, it really seems like these ambassadors are speaking English a lot better. Okay. And he's like, yeah, they've been around humans for the last three or four years. They've learned pretty much what he said. That makes sense. They should be better at this point right also if i remember right jeff this isn't this about the time where like the drazi and burkiri ambassadors like really like we see them a lot more like they become a much more regular part of the show yeah yeah i also want to point out this is uh 96 this is out what we have right here in 1996 are two very strong women running the show pretty impressive because over on the other show the one that this is not a podcast about um they're getting railed for having one woman in charge yeah over here they're like we have a couple so look at this that's what happens when you shoot your show in a hot tub warehouse.

[12:02] Nobody worries about it right like whatever they'll regroup soon and then all the more reason to take advantage of the lull in combat to address our wounds to tighten defenses around he's not wrong pulling our forces apart you're destroying the only chance we have of winning you cannot win this war commander you cannot attack zahadum yes we can we did and showed us how he captain sheridan is dead you don't know that if we go we will be buried alongside him our task is to serve our people this must come first not wrong no i think when when they were talking about sending ships we talked about how the minbari were like hey we're gonna offer everything we can spare and it's like whoa you're asking all this and then eventually they conceded and they're like we will also offer everything we can spare it was the compromise between we'll be a force and we'll take care of ourselves now they're like we got to take care of ourselves yeah it um also yeah the reason you want to go out is to find sheridan let's be honest that's why you want to go like you want to see what else is going on there's other reasons but mostly you want to find sheridan and yeah we're not doing that this is where jacar though needs to say look i've got 18 more of those thermonuclear devices that were used let's just go and just, Drop him. Let's glass that whole planet. Right.

[13:23] Minister, I have met Cartagia three times before. Twice when he was an infant, he drooled most of the time. And again, when he was 15, trying to pick up the dresses of some young women.

[13:35] JMS has words on Cartagia's picking up the dresses of some young women. Okay. He says, you know, the best I can tell, this is JMS speaking very specifically here, okay? The best I can tell from my admittedly very limited knowledge of Centauri physiology, he would have been looking in the wrong place, kind of like looking down a human woman's socks or something. Hey, don't yuck anybody's yum. Some people are super into that. Hey. But yeah, because I think he actually said shout out to the people with foot fetishes. That's like all it's all on their backs, I think. Well, yeah, I guess. I mean, yeah. I love that he talks about his limited knowledge of Centauri physiology. Like, bro, you literally invented it. Also, he's the one who wrote that line. So that's got to be like he didn't think about it in the moment. And it was later. He was like, oh, actually, yeah. Ah, Malone. Wonderful to see you again. I'm excited to see him. I could swear you have not changed since the last few times I saw you. Yes. A little smirk. Dude, that's great acting on Jokey McJokerson's there. Just that little eye roll. Right.

[14:52] Short, Majesty. Shorter than is traditional for someone of your position. Yes, yes. Decadent. As you can see, I've started. Quite the trend has become all the fashion among the court. I suppose there are those that might object, but they remain silent because the emperor is always right. Always? Is he not, Maloney? That is our tradition. I love the writing there. The emperor is always right. Now, he could have said, the emperor is always right. Right. But he doesn't. The emperor is always right. Isn't that correct? Malari. And then Londo's response. That is the tradition. Like, I'm not saying yes or no. He is top notch right now. Oh yeah. Oh, Londo. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I got, I got to tell you something about this, uh, this Cartagia actor. Yeah. For some reason, I remember him being so much more youthful than what I'm seeing here. Yeah. Like he actually looks like someone of age right now. He looks like he might be in like his 40s to me looking at his face. Whereas my first time around, I thought this kid was like in his 20s. Yeah. You know, he just looks older right now. Like he looks like somebody who's old trying to pretend to be really young. Okay. Like just look at his face. Tell me if you don't see it. It could just be me. I don't know. All right. You were requested. By whom? You'll see. You'll see. Come on, man.

[16:22] Wando can do that math. Well, it's either Morden or Tamov or Rifa's heir or... When he's not here, they leave their information with me. Captain Sheridan is dead. But he took their biggest city with them. Veer's looking good, man. Putting him in complete chaos. Yeah. Causing them to regroup and retreat. I suppose with any luck we won't see Mr. Morden's face around here anymore. That's good. Small consolation. Good, yeah, right. Poor guy. That had to be so hard to deliver that news. Right.

[17:02] Hello, Malari. Now, like, we just saw this guy, in theory, get blowed away. Right. I guess a while ago, whenever the season ender was. So what are we going to see? I have an answer to that. Okay. JMS says it's about seven days after the events of Zaha Doom. Okay.

[17:21] So a week ago. enough time to scab over then you uh unwell my associates tell me i'll be better soon i wasn't as near the incident as others and sheridan which one you know what they say what goes up must come down but he went down seen one sheridan seen them all my associates are planning to move some of their forces off sahadoom so from our good satay delin in our council chambers who's here with us this is not a note that i found okay so cannot corroborate this but i do want to share delin says that apparently those skin flakes he's peeling off are in real life edible and he kept grossing out people on the set by peeling them off and eating them i i'm not saying i doubt delin i'm just saying i really hope that's true because i kind of like that good for him Also, I probably would have punched him and not felt bad about it. Yeah. In exchange for certain favors, Emperor Cartesia has agreed to loan us a small piece of Centauri Prime. No, he wouldn't. Couldn't. He did. Centauri wouldn't stand for it. The resolution was passed quietly. Fourteen opposed it. Those 14 have no sense. Yeah. He's mad. If there's a madman. Are those 14 the heads? I think so.

[18:41] My associates asked for you as our liaison to the royal court. I don't care. I won't do it. Oh, I think you will. Of course you will, Malari, because you're drawn to power. Aww. Because you're afraid of what someone else might do in your place. That's it right there. My associates will be arriving soon. Make sure everything is ready. You know, when you think about it, Londo lost his bargaining chip, right? Which was Adira. Because he's like, basically, there's nothing you can do to me. And then they're like, oh, it turns out there is something I can do to you. She's gone. So he's sitting there thinking, there's nothing you can do to me now. Like I got nothing to lose. But I think Morden hit on a really important thing. And that was, you're worried about what someone else would do in your place. Because what he learned is he broke relations off before. Rifa stepped right in and things escalated horribly. And what's the one thing Londo loves more than anything else? Outside of Londo? Centauri. Yep. The Centauri. So this is, in a way, the beginning, maybe not the beginning so much, but the emergence of the tragic hero of Londo Malari. But if Sheridan is still alive, if there's even a chance... Irrelevant. How can you say that? Because he's Borg. You know how much depends on him.

[20:00] He has opened an unexpected door. We do now what must be done now. His purpose has been fulfilled you have the power to send a force to investigate if he's alive he can be rescued no one returns from zahadu that's what we thought about anna sheridan you were wrong then you're wrong now they weren't really no way to admit that you are capable of another mistake.

[20:29] For me for everyone here if you turn away now if you abandon him to die on zakhadum i have no more respect left for you do you understand me it's so wild because like respect he doesn't care he could not care less which is so wild when you think about i mean they have a more than thousand year relationship they're people and he's just like with whom the vorlon and the minbari okay, and he's just like here's right now the minbari in front of you and she's like, I, I'm not going to, and he's, I don't even care. I don't even care. Yeah. Well, he says what we do now, like we have basically, we have an opportunity to do something we've never been able to do before, which I assume is kill the rest of the shadows that weren't at Zahadoom. Yeah. Like there's that, like the, the, they're so weakened that now is their chance to take them out. Maybe. And that's, this is where they, they kind of start going. Like battle planning up. Yeah. Now, I remember the first time around, Jeff, it felt like the Vorlons were going nutso. This doesn't feel like they're going nutso. This feels like, oh, something's just happened. Let's go take advantage of the situation and do something. So the nutso happens pretty quick, like nutso. And then we kill off this gosh, like bubble. Yeah. And that's in a couple episodes from now. Yeah. So the nutso hasn't happened yet. Correct. Well, I think it has happened within their society a while ago.

[21:54] In fact, I think it was on our Discord someone said it, and it makes so much sense to me. They went nutso once Sinclair went back because now they don't know what's going to happen. They've been building their whole thing over, yeah, we know what's up. We had a discussion of that over in Discord the other day over there. And one of the things we were talking about with that was they go crazy because they don't know. Well, why would you go crazy just because you don't know? And I threw out the theory that it's because they were scared. Yeah, they didn't like for the first time in a thousand years. They didn't know what was going on. That's scary. And we know in just a couple episodes, they're really just a bunch of little crybabies. Yeah, they're a little bit little kids playing their Nintendo with the game genie on the whole time. And they just got to the part where the codes don't work. I don't know what to do anymore. I think what they're doing now is waiting. I think they're aware that Sheridan has made it through to Lorien. And we're just waiting to see what comes from that. Because the Vorlons know Lorien. So the Vorlon's no Sheridan is still out there. I think so. Nobody else does. Honestly. Okay. So what are you going to do about it? Nothing. Yeah. He's with Lorian. Like, you're not going to say that, but.

[23:05] It's fine. That's kind of where he's at. We're not gonna do anything. It's happening. We're waiting and that's what we have to do. And I don't have enough respect for you to tell you that. So, well, and then there's that. Here's the other thing. According to more than prophecies, Sheridan is the one who will be. He was not the one yet. In order for him to be the one who will be, he's got to be okay.

[23:29] So there's a little bit of like, if you're a Vorlon and you're thinking that way, you're like, he's fine. I don't exactly know what's going on, but I know he's going to be fine because he has not fulfilled his stuff. Although he did just say Sheridan's fulfilled his mission. He's done whatever. So I don't know. It does make me wonder about Delenn, though.

[23:49] Maybe even Delenn should be like, wait, wait, Sheridan is the one who will be. So he's got to be okay. He's got to be out there. Yeah. If you have that foreknowledge. If you've got Sebastian over here saying, hey, will you just die? Because there's someone else who will come and take the place. Like there's always someone else. It's not you. It's the thing, right? And she got that message. And so maybe, because I think Dillon's in this awful spot where she's like, has a military view of we need to like press the attack on the shadows, like Ivanova was saying. Then she has her prophetic piece of he's the one who will be. I want him to be, you know, we have to make sure this happens. And then she has her compassionate love self where she's like, literally the love of my life is missing. And all three of those things are, and like in this conversation. Here I'm kind of hearing bits of all three she's flustered she's freaked out she's scared all three of those things are vital and critical and I feel like the one person that could be of help for her is telling her to take a hike it's awful even Lita she's like sorry I don't know sorry to learn.

[25:02] I'll cover this. It's so ridiculous. It is.

[25:17] Yeah, thank you, Jakar.

[25:26] You hear that, Brent? He's going after him. Mr. Allen.

[25:32] Jakar's not-so-secret mission, just the one he gave himself. How awesome is Jakar? Pretty awesome. Not only is he in there finding Mr. Garibaldi, the soul of Garibaldi, but Zach's in there like, I don't know, I don't know. And he's like, your thoughts matter. He's being pastoral without even realizing his pasteurizing that's happening. His pasteurizing? Yeah. That's what it's all about, right? Right. Well, you know, you got to make that milk safe to drink, brother. But here's what's wild. And I think we might have talked about this a bit the first time. And this might be a conversation for messages as well. Maybe even more for next week. But what did Garibaldi actually do for Jakar? Read the book. He read the book. He helped him find a path to smuggle some weapons or do like he threw him a bone. Took nothing for Garibaldi to do those things. There's no risk. Took nothing. Look at the impact it made. Had he never done that, Zach would be the only person holding the candle for him. And Zach's just going to work every day at this point. Like, yeah. Yeah, and Suzanne over in our council chambers chat too. Yeah, he showed up and visited with him while he was in jail too. But like he didn't go out of his way and do anything incredible. He, like Andy says, he took the time. He just took some time. imagine if we did that right for the people in our lives maybe when things go south for us they might be willing to come and check out our daffy duck to get motivation to come look for us.

[27:02] Whoa dude i'm very eager to share my daffy duck in fact if i could read from to you from i could share with you this pamphlet this is a family-friendly show joe i'm just trying to convert you to my daffy duck religion keep trying that's yeah you are needed outside quickly no no No, I can't. But Temporicartagia insists. Besides. He does say something about it, Jeff. Okay. Well, somebody asked him, did you have Londo put on his old coat so there wouldn't be a costume mismatch like there was with Dylan from Babylon Squared and War Without N? Because of the thing. He says, I never make the same mistake. I just learn how to make new ones. So I'm going to chalk that up to a non-answer. outside of i'd never make the same mistake he's got pretty good non-answers yeah it is a most glorious day you won't want to miss it we'll be in the sand garden all right the sand garden, i do so love the sand garden, that's a lot of ships, This is why you seem as young. Look at him. He's like a little kid.

[28:22] Wow. Get yourself, Malari. Unhealthy mistake. And when I become a god, I will forgive you your rudeness, Malari. Then my capacities will be infinite. For now, I will simply try to forget it. I think now he understands the game he's playing. He's insane. Great maker, forgive us all. He is mad. It will all work out. It always has before. I like how he grabs this. Yeah, right. Verini's a survivor. He's seen regime change, and he keeps showing up. So JMS talks about the special effects here. This is specific Roto where he says these ones specifically. These streams from her eyes are done by hand. Really? So it's somebody in the computer doing it by hand. And it's also frame by frame. So if they're going 30 frames a second, there's a lot of money right there, man. That's a lot of tedious stuff right there. I remember this line. Is there anywhere else you needed me to carry you? Do we ever see Lita when she's quote unquote carrying a Vorlon somewhere? Doesn't feel the same as when I carry a kosh with me. It's darker somehow. Is everything all right? They did a good job with her makeup, making her look all weird. You're planning something, aren't you? Something that you're not telling me.

[29:46] I'm not even going to give you the dignity of that response. You are free for a time. Do not interfere. This is generally the point where you... Why didn't she put the mask on? Well, because she's going to leave his room and go through the alien sector. We have your connection to Babylon 5, Ambassador. Yes, put him through. She can't read. Personal security. She's set for his atmosphere. Londo. Or maybe the gills have to go away. I forgot the time difference there. It's all right. I was just about to get up. good evening my friends, now if I remember correctly a couple of these are like Andreas and Peter there's a good shot of them next week next week's episode this was just confirming this guy's office rocker, hopefully Lita's going to talk to a job coach updating her resume.

[30:38] Have you had any luck trying to convince the others to send a rescue ship to Zaha Doom they're sure he's dead, why rescue a dead man I just wish we knew one way or the other. How many white stars do they have? 41. I don't know. Why not send one? Well, because all the other worlds pulled their forces back. They need all they can get. Because they don't have one to spare, Jeff. If this is so important to both Babylon 5 and the Minbari, send a white star. If he is alive, I know he'd find some way to try and contact you. The shadows would be on us in a second. I think I can block any ships in the area telepathically. Not for long, just for a few minutes. Enough to try and contact him. But that's assuming that he was able to send a message within that window. Like, why did it take Lita to make them come up with this idea? I may be able to sense him. I mean, I feel like they should have left that council meeting. Catch me through to Ambassador Delenn's quarters. And got a White Star. Fine, we'll do it ourselves. We're getting us in and out of there in one piece. Think of me, and we will feel it. We will find you. I feel like she's are you there she's either hoping beyond hope or she's like can you hear me weird hippie we're in the stars kind of a thing that delin does you know they heard us i've felt this before i've been here before okay those eyes shadow eyes i yes.

[32:08] So jms says something here i don't fully know what it means okay i'm hoping maybe you can help me out he says check out voices of authority you've seen those eyes before yep the eyes were a projection of a shadow face as we can note in the main title these eyes were a projection of shadow face we saw these in voices of authority yeah so when uh vanovo was great machined and she was going out looking for signs of the first ones and then she went off path and she's like oh my god they know i'm here they know my name we saw this face turn these eyes glow okay but we've also seen these eyes multiple times since yeah like whenever they say that they woke we've woken them up the the icarus and and it's usually that same shot of like zooming in to like that one shadow hanging out on the wall and the hole and yeah yeah the lights it's the dead lights.

[33:03] Did you hear that it knows our names take us down that was a thing that she said when she saw that it knows my name it knows my name yeah and then here again and i was the first time around i was like very keyed in on that like that means something i don't think they ever come back and revisit that right but my my guess is just it's a thing like to know your name is to know you at some level and so i think it's maybe it's just communicating that like it's in us like it can see, us right oh i remember this transition.

[33:41] Stat bar is very symbolic, like through multiple points. He had to give it up, right, to get the singing to happen. And here he gives it up again. It's a fulfilling of a prophecy that wasn't a prophecy.

[34:00] And it's basically when they show his stat bar, this is just to show us. No, this is a thing. Remember? Hold on. Hold on. There's something here, though. Hold on. I remember seeing this the first time. I was like, is this the end of the episode? Right. And so, you know, it's just, yeah. So they basically showed us hers so we knew what this one was. Did he just drop that on purpose or did that just fall off his jacket? I think it fell off. That's the death of Captain Sheridan. You're late. I'm sorry. Emperor Kataja is insane. he has made a deal in the membrane shadows here pretty many assume you have not been paying attention and still the hideous or he's been paying attention to the things that actually matter are the closest thing i have to a friend i am a shock with that smile he's like he feels that i need a friend veer and i need a patriot and you are both i need a friend one that i can And, you know, may get scanned by a telepath super violently and not tell them why. If you had any doubt what my answer would be, would you have asked me to come this far? No. No, I wouldn't have. And now we must do everything we can to save our world. I have to let him go and just get on with the work. I think, I hope, it's what he would have wanted.

[35:26] Would Ivanova set Shiva for Sheridan? I don't know. I don't know. I know he's not like Blood Family, but... Per Nia in the chat? No. Who are you? Who are you? That's a good question. Who are you? Who are you? How did I get here? You were born. Why am I alive? Well, Well, that is the question, isn't it? Do you mind if I share your thoughts? That music and that look is kind of ominous.

[36:06] You said at in our first time watch this guy's clearly a good guy yeah sure you're fire all these things but i don't know man that look that musical that sting at the end like i leave that feeling kind of like what's going on here do you know what i was referencing then.

[36:23] Is an episode of stargate okay that you you have seen um it's it's an episode where daniel meets with some of the unos okay yeah it's one of the shotgun over like will you share my fire will you do like this so when he comes in is like can i share your fire can i do this like all of that actually to me is very hopeful and it's very but i'm coming to share your fire i'm coming to sit by you and that music scene was not a dun dun dun but like a, like it went up it had a little twinkle on it yeah like it like it went up and so to me all of that said and even in this watch here went good guy we're gonna like this guy plus he's with sheridan like we like him we like sheridan and the people around him right so he must be a good guy what i love is how you can see it one way and i can see it another and you and i like we're literally watching the exact same thing and we're like both having two different very opposite reactions to it and we're referencing the same we're both referencing the music also and how it's different And I think that's how we're supposed to feel right now. Like I'm not sure about this guy. Right. Create the water cooler talk. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think he's good. I think he's bad. I don't know. It's all that kind of stuff. Did, uh, in this episode, Brent, any big thoughts, any messages you pulled out of this one that we didn't talk about during? Honestly, no, I, there's just so much of this episode. That's just, it's so good. It's so intriguing. You're just in, you know what I mean?

[37:45] Um, no, it was just what was, what was there. How about you? Did you, did you have anything you pulled out? The episode, the episode makes me feel like I'm coated in molasses. And what I mean by that is like, it's very dark. There's no like real hopefulness that comes out of this thing. Even the, the aesthetic, the lighting aesthetic of the whole thing was dark. So many shadows, so much darkness. And so it feels very dark. It feels sticky. It feels like it was really uncomfortable but also molasses is delicious and i enjoy eating it so it's like this is weird it doesn't feel great and i'm more interested now than i was you know like i really want to know what happens i don't think coming out of season three i would have expected like i would have expected your regular tv like oh we're gonna start bouncing back you know after this kind of stuff and no we're we're driving down did uh did jms have anything else to say about this one you didn't get to bring up? I had a couple things.

[38:46] I found this real interesting. Somebody asked if this being the hour of the wolf, If this is going to be a real time episode. Oh, okay. Like a 60 minutes equals 60 minutes, 60 minutes on the TV equals 60 minutes in, in real life. And he's like, I've thought about doing stuff like that, but no, that's not this. Yeah. And he explains what Ivana explained. It's 3am that, you know, cause you can't sleep cause you're worried about one thing or another hour of the wolf. Um, this is more just anecdotal, nothing really much to do with this particular episode, but talking about, cause this is their first episode back from a break. Right. And he's like, even though for himself, like they just finished working on season three, like the effects and post-production and they turn around the next day and run right into prep for season four. Yeah. Like there's, there's no break for the production staff. The actors are off, but does it take the actors anytime to get back into it? And I think you and I have heard this before, but here it comes from him, that Peter Jersik has said that whenever he needs to get back into the Londo character, he just straightens up and says, Mr. Garibaldi. And there he's right back into it. Everybody else, they just pick up the script and go. It's a job. It's their actors. It's what they do. Right? They're there. He gets into an elevator. He says, Moose, squirrel.

[39:59] Right. You do that. Now, I got to say, as an actor, if I've been playing a character for a certain amount of time, I guess I could maybe fall right into it. But like initially it takes me some time to find the character. Yeah. You know, it does take some time. Like it's, it's not a, just pick it up and go like you gotta find it. But he says this, and maybe this really becomes kind of the message from James. He says this after watching Zaha doom and Wolf, right. He says, my main thought was basically who the hell are these old races to assume moral superiority based on technical superiority? How dare they interfere with our development as a species just to suit their own petty needs. I wonder if any character on the show will take that same line of thought and expand upon it a little more introspective thought here from jms yeah he's had a couple of these.

[40:46] They they struck me as weird so i looked to see if like this isn't a quote by somebody else that he's just putting up there it seems like these are actually things he's saying yeah so because there's just some things like it looks like he's watching his own work a little bit more you know which he does apparently we we know he does that so i think he's talked about how it uh It, it, he's not even necessarily telling the story anymore. The story is telling the story at this point. I remember reading somewhere. I don't remember where I read this or when, but he said, if I'm going to get it, probably get this wrong. It's been, it's loose in my brain. But he said, one of the reasons it was so important for him to tell the story of Babylon five is because he wanted to explore like, what does it actually mean to be human? What does it mean to know who you are? What does it mean to know what you want? Where does it, what does it mean to know where you go? Like, these are real questions that he as a person had and he is really using the show to explore them. And so I think, I think that makes a lot of sense. What, what he was just saying that you shared is like, this is just kind of where it's taking us now as we explore these things. Right. But where are you going to take us? We have a fresh board on our rankings right now. It's blank. Ooh. Ooh, season four, we're starting a new set and you get to kick it off.

[42:02] Where, sir, are you placing Hour of the Wolf in the objectively correct immutable rankings of the episodes of the fourth season of Babylon 5? You know, I love these weeks. I really do. I truly love these weeks, cause they're easy. It's the number one episode, Jeff. What? I know, shocker, right? Number one, God, I mean.

[42:23] I said this was going to be a very mild episode and it might've been mild and that there's no pew, pew, pew, shoot them up, anything like that. But it's such an, it just intriguing have to watch can barely look away type of an episode. Yeah. You know, like I, like I, it certainly doesn't feel ended. It doesn't feel finished. No, not at all. There's no beginning, middle and end to this episode. Like you're right. It's all middle.

[42:49] Yeah. And that might be a little bit more like why, like the messages are very lacking because we're not there yet. This is just not where, where we are. They're, they're, they're just there. I mean, I guess, I guess thinking about it a little bit more, you know, Ivanova and, and, and Dillon are holding out hope for Sheridan being alive when nobody else is like the, and you see Ivanova just come to terms like, all right, he's gone. Yeah. He's gone. And I think Ivanova and, and Dylan are unrealistically holding out hope, but sometimes that's all you gotta, that's all you can hang on to is a little bit of hope. Right. But I think you and also, you and I have also seen examples of where holding out to unrealistic hope like that drives people batty. Yeah. There's a part of me that wasn't. I'm not saying give up hope. I'm not saying. No. But. But temper it, right? With some pragmatism. Like, no, you don't have to be completely pragmatic about it, but just sprinkle a little in there. Yeah. And I think it's always Ben wants to know if we're just going to rank the hexology, the six episodes together as one, Ben, we're thinking about it. Yeah. Just, you know what? Stay tuned. Yeah. You never know. Might happen. Dude, we could wind up with 11 episodes in our top five. Right.

[44:01] Unopposed. Yeah. And we wouldn't be wrong to do so. We'd be objectively correct. Exactly. I kind of wish this episode ended with Ivana of a sleeping. And then what she said is kind of a voiceover, because I think that there's something in, in knowing, even if what you know, isn't the thing that you wanted to know the knowing that's like, Oh, right now I can sleep, which will Brent wrap up the hour of the wolf for us. That's it. That's it. Wow. That's it. All right. Next week, we're watching on an episode, really short title rolls right off the tongue. Whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi. Do you remember what you thought about this one? First time we watched it. I remember being very confused. I remember going what? Cause I was all about this garibaldi secret mission what's he doing what's he doing what's he doing and i and i talked about earlier like the the image that they showed earlier looked like he was on the outside like tagging along wherever they were going and and like this was an episode that that.

[44:55] Did not go anywhere near where I thought they were going to go. And I want to point out, I didn't hate the episode because he did something with it. But what I, what I really remember, I remember the shots of Garibaldi. Wait, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Was Garibaldi even in this episode? Very, very tail end. Short section. Because this is about Jakar going out and trying to find him. Right. Because what, because what I was about to say was I remember Garibaldi and like his little black and white flashback scene in the, the side core thing, like bashing around. And I don't remember if that's this episode or the next or whatever, but, um, I really wanted to know what's going on with Mr. Garibaldi. Maybe, and maybe it's cause we didn't get an answer in this. I, you know, Jeff, I don't know. I don't remember. I don't remember what's in this episode. How about you?

[45:41] I remember the little tiny, tiny bit of, uh, Garibaldi at the end, which is him like slamming the thing and this really like thing, but it's like 14 seconds. It's so quick. The whole rest of the episode from what I remember was Garibaldi, not Garibaldi, but jacar and marcus marcus goes along and i remember there were some pretty fun moments with uh jacar marcus and his force pike like it's force pike his force pike his lightsaber pike right his minbari pike uh some stuff like that and then there was some chicanery where jacar is like i'm doing this by my by myself is that a minbari pike in your pocket or you're just happy to see either chunk yes hopefully that's the chunk right right there's the sound right.

[46:26] Like, uh, my bike's already out. You can figure out the rest, but I remember to those asking in the, in the chat, I said, I don't remember. Sorry. Go ahead. I know. It's a lot, but I remember really enjoying this one. I think I enjoyed this one is like, I can reflect on those Jakar scenes. It's the first six episodes of season four. Yes. You enjoyed it. Jeff, what are you saying? Very much so. Very much so. So let's find out next week. If you do remember, if I did like it, all of those awesome things. We'll find out right here. So make sure you're subscribed so that you don't miss the episode. When it hits, you want to be one of the first to comment. That's a fun thing on YouTube. First to say a thing that people enjoy doing. If you want to catch all of our other really cool stuff that we do, we also have a podcast about Stargate SG one and the other properties of Stargate. Brent and I have some reaction videos we've done to other properties. Those are all on our Patreon page. You can click the links in the show notes, patreon.com slash bad nerds. Or if you really want to help us out, the calling of your heart is to serve in any way, please share this episode. Just tell a friend, check these guys out. We would love to have them along with you on this incredible ride. So with that, I'm Jeff. That's Brent. Hey, Jeff. Yeah, what's going on? Hey, Jeff.

[47:46] Yeah? Jeff. Brent. Jeff. I know your name. Brent, I know your name. I know your name. Therefore, I know you. Yeah. Initiating getting the hell out of here maneuver. I mean, we're not some deep space franchise. This station is about something.