Lines of Communication | For the Second Time

[0:44] The year is 2026. The name of the podcast, Babylon 5, for the second time. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the second time. My name is Brent Allen. And my name is Jeff Aiken. Brent and I used to be Star Trek podcasters. Then we watched Babylon 5 for the first time, and everything changed. So now we're watching this incredible show for the second time, because Babylon 5 is a show that you get to watch for the first time, twice. That's right but we are still searching for those sci-fi messages you know those things that hold up a mirror to society give us hope that things can be better in the future or just tell us how to be better human beings to one another now that being said if you're new around here welcome we love that you're here every episode is somebody's first episode we're glad you made this one yours unless this is your first episode of babylon 5 or you don't know what comes after this point in the story because here's the thing from this point forward everything from any point in the franchise guys from any part in the timeline in universe, out of universe, doesn't matter. It's all fair game for Jeff and I to talk about. So spoilers are ahead. If you've never seen this incredible show for the first time for yourself, we beg you. We wouldn't do this any other time.

[1:55] Stop this video. Stop this podcast right now. Scroll up, catch our episode on this. The first time we did this run, that was completely spoiler free. We had no clue what was coming up. Do that, go through that. And then when you're on your own second watch, join us back here. so that being said spoiler alert, This week, Brent, we're watching an episode called Lines of Communication. When we watched this the first time, we played a game where we guessed what each episode was going to be. We didn't guess. We predicted. There's a little more to a prediction than a guess, right? Yes. Well, it involves crystal balls and being just vague enough to be almost right. To be the king, baby. Just like you. Like it says in the intro.

[2:35] There you go. But we would guess what each one was based on the title alone before we watched it. My prediction was that we were finally going to get some of that Garibaldi stuff. I said we were going to learn about the lines of communication connecting him to Psycor or whomever programmed him and start to dig into those Rammstein guys who we now know as Wade and his crew. So I thought this would be a very Garibaldi-focused episode. Remember what your prediction was? Yeah, I said, you know, the lines of communication have really been cut off between Earth and Babylon 5, as we saw with Sheridan last week, like trying to flip through all the channels and everything like that. Presumably the same thing is true of Mars.

[3:15] So and they're all being jammed is what we know. So this would be Babylon 5 and Mars starting to establish communications, getting away around the jam so they can open up lines of communication is what I said. I don't think that's anywhere close. Yeah, we took the title very literally on this one. I don't think that helps us out. Well, why wouldn't you? Because it's Babylon 5. It's JMS. Very good. We've seen a few of these. What do you say that we go back, do a little look-see at what we said about this one the first time around? I'm all for it. Previously on Babylon 5 for the first time, lines of communication. I found this one kind of dull. the individual parts were greater than the whole but then you've got franklin and marcus i love this together franklin has blossomed 100 buddy cop movie here with marcus.

[4:11] I'm here for those guys, like, just all day long. They're great. I love all of it. Number one. Thank you. She is going to give Liana Kimmer a run for her money in Worst Guest Actress in the entire series. I loved the scene where the White Star, they were, you know, doing the, what do you call it, skin dancing. All in one scene, Jeff. This went from Babylon 5 to Star Wars, and then it turns into Top Gun. Where he's going to hit the brakes to fly right by him. He flips around. He flips him the birds, splits the whole thing in half. So let's talk about the draw. This alien was awful. He's just standing there, and he's still moving weird and stuff, and the blurry effect, and it was bad. And he couldn't even talk for himself. Pharrell had to do all the talking. Yeah. Dylan's doing the math. Pharrell's immediate reaction is to point a gun, and his story has merit.

[5:10] Why was his first reaction to whip out a gun and not be like, hey, Dylan, let me tell you what's going on. Everything here is her fault. They broke up the great council and then she peaces out. If you're going to break something up, if you're going to take something out, you have to have something to fill in its spot. And because of this, Dylan is responsible for Mimbari culture fracturing. When you are a person with the power, when you're a person with the prestige that Delenn has, you do not get to be that ignorant anymore. You do not get to be that irresponsible.

[5:45] So we went from her being fully ostracized in Minbari society to her being able to come in and break up the Grey Council. And now her apparently being the only person who can come and bring order to Minbar. This is not a good look for Dylann. This is not a good positive Dylann episode. It's time for the redemption of Dylann of Minbar.

[6:08] We might be upsetting some people in this one, it sounds like. Are you upsetting yourself listening back to this one, Jeff? No, I'm actually not. I am not surprised at all that I wasn't a huge fan of this episode. Yeah. Because what do I remember about season four? It was great. Really great beginning, really great ending. There's the middle pieces of very meh episodes, but I understand why they're there. They're not bad. They're just not what everything else is, you know, and you understand that there's just this lull where things have to kind of get into place and do what they have to do so like i i can extend it a lot of grace because of that but yeah who's looking forward to a reaction right now all i know is i know people really love it when i get hypercritical of delin they're all about that they love listen it's it's the redemption of delin of mimbar right that's a phrase i don't think i ever said ever again after that episode and you know what i'm not sorry what say we dive into this thing so we maybe we see it very differently this time there you go well i will say this i i do think i'm going to eat some crow on this one yeah yeah whoever the girl is that plays number one is not even close to being the worst guest actor yeah up there with leon like not even she you're i don't know your name but.

[7:34] I was about to call her like sweetie or honey because that's how we do here in the south. Yeah, glad you didn't. But that's not good.

[7:40] Ma'am, is that any better? That's not really any better, is it? Mom. It's for you. Mom. Sorry. Anyway, if you're watching this, you're great. Like, you're just fine. Don't listen to me back then. In fact, if you're watching this, you should email us and let us know that you're watching it because you're number one. Katarina is really curious to see your crush she is well she has to go back and watch survivors for that farley or whatever his name is oh if i won this time i thought we're still on the liana camera thing no but uh i have a couple crushes i guess out of this show huh i guess farley is that his name pharrell for yeah that dude so what's about to happen is we're going to watch this episode right now we're going to bring it up you're going to join us and we're going to dive in brett and i will comment as the video is going if you're watching us on youtube it'll be edited it up like a reaction video the full and unedited version is available at our patreon page it's patreon.com slash bad nerds and to all of our audio listeners out there no worries we're not going to leave you out you're going to hear everything the whole kit and caboodle so jeff, now let's watch this episode let's open these lines of communication accessing file.

[9:01] He's just been taken in by the aliens we're gonna go get him we're gonna rescue him we're gonna bring him back and yeah he's gonna have to stand trial for the things he did but we're gonna you know we're gonna not blame him it's got minbari war syndrome i mean yeah everyone up back home turn him against us commander this is lost land to big bad wolf, respond i repeat do not respond so question was asked why did he feel the need to send a video message like just bandwidth and stuff like that and he's like at that point the difference between audio and video is fairly negligible and it's way easier to fake audio than it is to fake the video okay although in today's age of ai not so much i'd be like because it's a tv show yeah Yeah. So, you know, one of the conversations I think we may have had at some point, maybe not with this episode, but certainly one of the others and is what's it like for the people back on earth right now? You know what I mean? Like, are they, are they buying this? Are they, are they eating all this up? Are they for it? We know there's some level of resistance there, but like by and large, what's going on? I have no idea what that looks like. What does it look like to be on the inside of basically a fascist regime?

[10:21] I would posit, Brent, that we just need to open up our front doors and see. Yes. And I would posit that that has actually – I'm going to amend what I say. What is it like to live in a country where half of the population believes that the current regime is fascist and the other half doesn't? And that has been true for about the last 20 some odd years here. Yes. Yes. You know what I mean? And, and effectively what you, what you truly have is you got about half the people going, you got about a third of the people going, yeah.

[10:57] And then you've got like another third of the people being like, no. And then you've got that middle third of the people. Kind of split evenly between the two of them being like, yeah, maybe no, no, that's not, that's, that's not okay. And the other one's like, yeah, but it's better than like, it's, it's that kind of a split, you know what I mean? Like, and it just depends on which, which way you, you are. I read an article here recently about exactly that. If you were just Hans general blow citizen in Nazi Germany, what's your day like? Right. Or if you were Joe average in Britain during World War II and they were getting bombed, what was your day like? And overwhelmingly, historians were like, pretty much just a regular day, just every now and again, there were bombs. You had this schedule going on and brownouts and stuff. But you woke up, you got the kids ready for school, you went to work.

[11:54] You know, we were in history this past year, we were going through like medieval era, medieval times. And what would happen to the peasants and the serfs and that group of people when a new lord would come in and take over a castle? Usually an enemy lord, right? Stuff like that. And it repeated. It was like, yeah, for the peasants, things were pretty much – they did – it was all the same to them. It did not affect them really at all. Say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss. Right, right. Just, okay, fine. You're going to make me give you some of my stuff too. Okay well not really that different i gotta go back to work we will check in again at pre-arranged time on second coded frequency i repeat he's like so many podcasters we're like he sounds fine until they turn the mic on and then he talks so unnaturally right if you go back and you look at our the recap that ardillin put together of us yeah we watched a little bit ago, on our record i'm wearing the exact same shirt franklin's pretty much wow more in a henley shirt that looks almost exactly like his i recently had to wear henley's as part of a costume and i realized i'm not a henley guy i'm i am more so now that i'm a little as i am a little less here ten civilians were killed in the attack.

[13:11] The alliance with the North side was initiated by the religious cast. Now that the war is over, the warrior cost are refusing to help. So it's an interesting conversation he's having there with the breakup of the great council and the break. When, when all of this chaos happens, what's going on? Everybody is just concerned for themselves, right? All the cast becomes super insular and just self self concerned that, well, you could even say they become warrior cast first or religious cast first or, worker cast first, right? And what happens when you adopt that sort of attitude? Well, then everyone else is less than.

[13:49] We've seen this in history so many times that a quote unquote us first thing actually does not do what we want it to. Like I get the idea. I used to be very this, you know, like I really was. And I really understand like this is us. We should be concerned. We should be taking care of our own first i get that idea the problem is when it moves beyond that into only us yeah and then well then who defines what us is exactly who and and all of a sudden you get somebody who says they're not us yep they're not us that group's not us all that group's not us you know And it sickens me to think that you and I, Jeff look like us, right? Almost always. Not that, not that I mind the way we look like I, I'm not, I'm not that it just, you know, we're living in a time where, I mean, really in a lot of the Western world, the us first mentality means people that look like us for in, in our, in our situation where we are. And that's an uncomfortable place to be when you don't buy into that. that way of thinking.

[15:08] Yeah because what happened what okay so to go back to our previous conversation what happens when you turn insular and you start worrying about yourself where does that lead it always leads to you going to attack and kill the other ones because they're dangerous they're not us and and when it's of your own people and you get those groups that are within your own then it turns to civil war, okay well when it's not even that okay then it turns to just war within in the earth humanity like isn't isn't all war civil war in in some respect well i'd say either yes or no because what's civil about war anyway right but you understand what i'm saying like ultimately it's we're all one it's yeah we're just fighting against ourselves like that's ultimately it goes back to geometry of shadows literally me saying let's say i'm the united States, and I'm going to go blow up, I don't know, Rwanda. Like, you know, because why not? That's the thing that we seem to...

[16:05] Uh, that's no different than me saying, well, I'm wearing green and you're wearing purple. There's literally no other difference. Or half my face is white and the other half is black and your half is black. It's the wrong half. Never forget who I was, what I am and what I can do. I want to take that to Lynn and what she just said. And I want to put it around the fifth or sixth episode of the fifth season as a message to us and JMS.

[16:32] Don't forget who I was, what I can do, because we seem to have lost that in the story. Are you saying fifth or sixth because there's something that specifically happens in that particular episode or just because by the time you get about five or six episodes into the fifth season, you're like, oh my gosh, what is this? Who are you now? You just, why are you just hanging on him for everything? I was trying to recall what the fifth or sixth episode was and why this would be pertinent to that particular episode. And then I was like, I think he's speaking broader than that. Yeah, just need some time for her to slip from the character that she, who I was. But also, I think there's a real lesson in there in relationship, right? Because you end up in a relationship with somebody, and there's a real strong possibility that you leave yourself behind. As time goes on, that's going to catch up with you, and it's not going to be good. And so, I mean, if more people had that mindset of just like, I love that you feel this about me and who I am right now. but don't you ever forget this because I'm not going to forget it either. Don't forget who I actually am here. It's a good Dylan moment right here. And you don't do anything. You don't breathe. You don't move. And you don't blow things up unless you check with me first. I buy her in this role. Like the first time around, we're like, oh, she's ridiculous. But I'm buying everything. She's a little over enunciating. But yeah. And look, maybe I'm seeing her through season five eyes. Yes, 100%.

[18:01] Let the truth attend to itself. We're fair and balanced. But what are facts? Where do you get your facts from? How do you vet your facts? Light bulb. Fight fire with fire. Leave me alone. You know what I do remember about the first watch? Just this constantness with Ivanova waking up still perfectly groomed and just beautiful, gorgeous. We talked about this during Illusion of Truth. How this is how different news organizations and stuff come to be. Here it is actually happening. I don't agree with the things you're saying and the facts you're presenting. I'm going to go start my own news organization. By the way, the idea that Ivanova, think about Ivanova. At the end of the day, she goes home and she puts on silk pajamas and slides into silk sheets with a super comfortable comforter. I mean, for all that we know about Ivanova, for her to pamper herself like this, it says an interesting thing about her character that I love. She's a bit of a croissant. Tough on the outside, a little chewy on the inside. Yeah. Open.

[19:16] I've got it. Damn it, Susan. I've got it. I love how excited he gets with those ideas. If you want to play games, well, fine. We can play games, too. Only we can play them better because we've got the truth. The Grey Council was the force that held us together to live. Look at him. That is why Valen created it. It really is that, like, makeup. Each cast had an equal voice.

[19:34] Ducartes says when there is good news, we always ask if it is true because it is so difficult to believe. But when there is bad news, we rarely inquire because it is so easy to believe. I do believe. We talked about that a lot the first time around. i very much wish so true yeah jeff i don't find him attractive no no not at all the captain wants you to stop bombing civilian targets it does no good and it never has we have to send a message you are you are but it's the wrong message bingo you know what message this is you know who also preached this message dr martin luther king jr yeah gandhi right stop stop this stuff this isn't helping this isn't helping stop that now we need to know that we can rely on you to carry out any, instructions from babylon 5 over the next several months without question no matter how strange they may sound we need you to trust us yeah he's coming in too hard with that hold off on the bombings for a while i have a real problem though that just kind of so they tried they tried uniting them against clark and they were they were resistant to that right and they call it like how they call Why? You want to take over, overthrow everything. And that's a thing that's been talked about just so much. You have your rebels and then the rebels become the thing they rebelled against. And that's history on and on forever. But when that wasn't working, they shifted to unite behind Sheridan.

[20:59] Which is exactly Garibaldi's point. It's more of this cult of personality. And even Franklin and Marcus coming out with just, I mean, this really concerning hero worship of this guy. Because again. Of Sheridan, you mean? Of Sheridan. Yeah. Because if I'm other, you know, cell leader guy over here with all my opinions and I should sprout rings. Well, if it's the right guy, it's the right. He's the captain of a space station. What's he going to do with other governments recognizing us as an independent state? To them, to anyone outside of the little sphere of Babylon 5, that means nothing. I feel like part of it's the show, right? It's Babylon 5, so we're going to say it's his thing. But we have this little piece of Garibaldi calling him out on it, and I think this just gives more power to Garibaldi's point. Here's the thing. I get what you're saying, and I get Garibaldi's point. And in any other circumstance, I'd be on that side. But we know stuff about Sheridan. And in this case, he's right.

[22:00] Yeah. He is that. Like, that's really what he is. But if you're coming to me, telling me this guy who put down riots against me, like you came in here against me in the past, and now he's the guy to come in and I have to listen to what he says, do exactly what he says, and not ask any questions. And I'm just supposed to do that on the word of you two guys? No. no way it's hey by the way uh the drock so sheridan i'm i've been listening for it it's possible i've missed it but it's okay i'm gonna go ahead and say this anyway sheridan refers to them as the wild cards okay here's what i want you to do say the word drock backwards oh card.

[22:47] Card mr alucard alucard why are you doing this to prevent you from acting against them till you've heard what we have to say. Then what? What we have to say. And then. Tell the other ships to follow us. That was not lost to me the first time either.

[23:02] You're welcome i was there too you know didn't thank me well you were the one that always told me that being a ranger is a thankless job i think she likes you oh come on no he's totally look i just just helping her out of a difficult situation that's all knowing where they go at the end not all she wants you to help her out oh come on you are such a romantic yeah we're still in a war here steven makes you afraid makes you want to reach out to someone who might be willing to risk this much to help you when the rest of the world couldn't give a damn that's super wise i almost forgot since it was your hotel it was bombed this morning you're on your own maybe you'd like to join me for dinner tonight heck yeah i can't promise much but trust me honey he's a little shorthanded on guard duty tonight if you could help out love to that'll be 50 credits no no don't you start with me marcus don't come on you cheap bastard marcus, fashion when it comes your way, Stephen. It's rare enough as it is. Don't walk away when it calls you by name. That's such a powerful message right there. Especially coming from a guy like Marcus. Exactly. Who are they? Friends. You have my word. They're clearly friends. That's why I'm pointing a gun at you.

[24:18] Okay, so this effect they're putting on here. According to the special effects technician ken busick they added the shimmering thing it was not necessarily a part of the original plan okay they added it just because the costume looked goofy oh and they were trying to make it just be better so that just understand this is better in their estimation then so here here's the thing to me it's not even necessarily the shimmer thing that's dumb it's this where he's like for our audio listeners i'm moving like all, yeah this is just me walking here that's the ridiculous thing oh yeah very glad that this got switched up but when we met the drac again later she can be a great help to us her name is.

[25:12] I feel like this is a retcon leader right this guy is supposed to be a drac i think so right and he is the emissary that speaks for the Drak not no he is not a Drak he's just an emissary who speaks for the rest of the Drak right, Like he, he, yeah. And I feel like that was one of those things that sort of was very unclear when they did it. And they kind of, it was like an idea. And then they're like, well, we need someone to speak. And then they're like, well, we'll, we'll do the, we'll do the mouth of Sauron here, but we'll do it before the extended edition. So like it actually shouldn't even be shown because it's not good. And then they do it in the extended edition. You're like, this was some of the greatest thing I've ever seen on, on film. This is amazing, but not yet. So here's a person who's been radicalized by us first and the fallout of us first.

[26:01] The warrior cast went us first and cast this person off, didn't care. And they then got radicalized because of that. The care, the hardness, the cruelty, the turning to people that they never would turn to before. That is the result of blank first mentality yep it starts from a good and pure place it does it really does but it does not stay there and it doesn't it doesn't live there this is the actual reality of it as we have seen in real history this is art reflecting real life did notice though he was about to say her name and then got cut off and that was like i didn't catch that the first time around but like it's knowing what's coming up now it's super intentional what do you mean so he was about to he says her name is and the drugs like it doesn't matter.

[26:57] But it totally is going to matter here in a second but it is just how it happened i do have to say pharrell is less attractive to me on this viewing like he looks kind of dump dopey actually, Yeah, maybe it's just the profile. Or the lighting there. Sure.

[27:17] But you know those Pac-Marat, super, super aggressive. You know, Jeff, they're only out there doing their jobs. It's only when people put them in danger that they have to get violent back. I don't want to do this. You're making me do this. I don't, you know, it's only when people don't comply, comply, comply. It's only when people, you know, these are federal officers. And they shouldn't be getting in their way because they're peaceful out there. In fact, they are peace officers is what they are. Yeah, right? In fact, it's, they're just, they're nice. It's you that pushed back and didn't comply or listen. And it's you who escalated the situation. In fact, to the point that you really shouldn't even be considered a citizen. You're more of a domestic terrorist than anything. Yeah. You're the problem. Yeah. I will consider your offer. Tell the others that we will meet here again in seven days. I think that's very fair. I'll give you my answer then. Knowing what she knows. No. Sure. Consider it. You will not be correct.

[28:34] The what to land and now you brought me right into the middle of them no you must have been mistaken now that i know who i am they will attack as soon as it is safe to do so i got really upset um gosh a couple little while ago two times there was a vanneva who went and did like the great machine thing and you know went out and saw the shadows the big eyes thing and then when they went to Zaha Doom looking for Sheridan the big eyes thing and both times they're like oh my god it knows my name and I'm like where is that hey Jeff it's right here like this is that whole thing paying off so, idiot it was on screen the whole time the whole time how could I have missed it now.

[29:29] Approaching optimum speed activate jump engines break off No! Some people were really bothered by Dylan running away here. Really? Did they say why? Well, I'm going to read this. I'm going to read JMS's words, but I'm going to read them with the inflection that I think he is typing these words. Okay. All right. Why did Dylan run? Well, as she states in the episode, at the time they were surrounded, and if they had turned to fire, they would get destroyed. Firepower doesn't solve every problem. One good handheld Lancet missile can put down a full-size cruiser if it hits right. They were in the middle of the draw, just as they said, and that's not a defensible position. They had to get away outside that group so they could mount an offensive, and that's what they did. I completely agree with him. And if you look at where we paused here, there's evidence. Two of those ships just blowed up a white star. I would like to also say this in a different way. This will mean something to you and our friend Katarina.

[30:38] Because if I start hammering on the back where the front is now, the safe will tear loose from the front of the flat and fall on the stage. Duh duh same energy so would you rather have that or no back on the safe which one is it going to be right i thought i was helping our people they always do yep great intent okay that's the other thing jeff i know i give a certain side a hard time on this show a lot here's what i will also say for the most part this is not true across the board but for the most part, the people caught up on either side of this really are doing what they think is best, what they actually believe is best for the people. Not all, not all. That's the motives they're actually coming by. And you know what? When I find somebody who actually is doing what they think is best for the people, even if I disagree with them, you know what? I can work with them because I can at least trust their heart. A while ago, Brent, you and I on a council chambers hangout, we're talking about recent events, political events in the United States, and we just kind of asked, we're like, hey, we're not here to argue.

[31:52] I'm genuinely curious. Like if you landed on this side of the equation, I'm curious how, and we had one person, I won't, that's why I call them. That's their story to tell, but took that to the nth degree and actually wrote and published a book about why they felt that way. And I sat down, I read the whole thing in one sitting. And again, I don't agree, but I looked at it and I believe this is where this, this person was doing and following those who he believes had the best interests of people in mind. This is the best outcome for people. This will help people. If we do this again, I don't agree, but you know what? I can talk to this person. We can have a for real conversation about things. I may or may not change their mind. They may or may not change mine, but we can actually communicate. And I think what we saw here in Pharrell was both, right? So at the end, now when it's all blown up, he's like, okay, so I was just trying to help. But he was so jacked over to the side of this is the right thing to do for our people. He whipped the gun out on Delenn. Yeah.

[32:57] It's that like just that extreme thinking that happens. And maybe like the lesson here is that it's great to want what's best for people. If those people aren't your children, maybe you're not the sole source of what is best for this thing. And maybe you should consider other perspectives. Yeah. You can totally know what's best for your kids. Go nuts. That's awesome. You don't know what's best for me. Maybe ask me. Who said we were leaving?

[33:25] They destroyed ships from League Worlds, murdered their crews, destroyed White Star 16. And now...

[33:34] They will pay the price. Okay, is this Delenn from back before rearing its head again? Is this Severed Dreams Delenn? No, no, no. Not Severed Dreams Delenn. Oh, Dukat Delenn. Atonement Delenn. The, you know, wipe them all out, murder them. Take no mercy, no mercy. Is it that Delenn rearing its head again? I think so. There's no immediate threat right now. Right, right. She knows what's up. She could go back and report back. I was watching, watching the last season of the boys and there's a, oh, I don't, if you haven't, I don't know if people care, but some people will, someone sends someone out and it's like, go look and then just come back and tell us. And of course that person gets more involved and then they die as a result. And then they're show, why, why didn't you just go back and just report back? Like I said to, yeah, Dylan, just good call, Brent. And I think that's exactly what this is.

[34:44] End this. Oh, I love the whole thing. Yeah. No one does badass like badass. The target is next in there. I have two thoughts off of that. One, I love the idea of using hyperspace as a place to kind of regroup. It's a good time out, you know? But there's some good chat here in our chat about her doing this. is this Ducat Delenn. And this is the thing. I feel that she was not driven to go solve the problem of the Drock. She was driven for retribution. The reasons she gave is they killed these people. They attacked these people. They did these things. Now I have to go kill them. If I'm the Drock and they come back and I get a, hey, hey, other Drock. I found Delenn.

[35:40] They got that message and they're going to come back and attack them or whatever right now they know that the lens like they're fighting back so i'm going to bring more and it's going to get even bigger i've got more reason to be upset at you i think this was totally ducat delen and i think that she actually made everything worse by doing this also, super cool also wherever you paused this on this video right here isn't that gorgeous that's a great screenshot like holy smokes is that a good screenshot and it's really good finally be able to get our story out to the fleet the colonies even earth if we can slip basically yvonneva is going to become a podcaster i heard about what happened to you out there these drac warning me the most wild cards you know my grandfather once told me the duration is going to be a lot longer than the war. Never quite understood that until now. There are problems waiting for me on Minbar. I'm going home for a while. I think in some ways, the time apart will be good for us. Good for you. How so? Right? You don't get to say what's good for me. Before the war.

[36:48] I came to the conclusion that of all the races we had encountered, humans were the most dangerous. Because humans form communities, and from that diversity comes a strength no single race can withstand. That is your strength. Sometimes I feel as if I've been carrying this station on my back and crawling through broken glass for three years. I must rebuild the Grey Council. Maybe if he listened to Ivanova and, like, leaned on his team, he wouldn't feel so individually tired. Destroying is easy. Building a new world out of what's left of the old, that is what's hard. And how will your leaving make this any easier for you? And I think you would be more comfortable doing that if I were not here. I really don't like her deciding these things for him. I don't see her deciding things for him. No, she's deciding something for her, for herself. She's got to go do all this by the way.

[37:40] Also, uh, you've got some stuff that you need to do. I, that's, that's, that's not a deciding anything for him. That's just a, you got stuff you need to do and you're only going to do that if you're dating, you can't be protecting us all the time. Go be who you are go do what you got to do and i'm going to remove myself so you can do whatever it is you have to do she's not telling him what to do she's not uh dictating to him what he has to go do she's frankly removing what she sees to be a stumbling block which is herself and then.

[38:12] Trusting that uh nature will take its course follow naturally you you know what i mean like what's going to come is going to come. I quite like what she's doing here. Also, yeah, I mean, is Sheridan without Dillon a better Sheridan? I mean, we have said it before. Sheridan and Dillon are the most earned relationship maybe in the history of television, but it does feel like they are better together but separate. You know, like when they're each fighting their own thing and then they get to come together personally versus trying to do something together. You know what I mean? And that might be why she gets shoved to the side. Because they're better as this. So I agree with you. I'm going to agree with you that she has decided for herself this whole thing. But I think that she's decided for herself and she's justifying it based on assumptions that she's making about Sheridan. If she said to him, I have to go back home and take care of this stuff. I've enjoyed our time together, but I've been really focused on it and I've let these things slip. You have a lot to focus on too, I'm sure. But I have these things. Well, make it about her. But instead...

[39:19] All about him and it's total assumptions she doesn't know any of these things i think you'd be better at this if i was that's not relevant you going is the thing just own your decision i mostly agree with you there.

[39:38] That's i did not even remember that so i said the first time we watched this i totally have to say it again Huge missed opportunity with that Mimbari Pike. The whole thing should have gone like this. Mark is just sitting around and then, oh, Stephen. Chkunk. One time. And then faded out just like what we're seeing here. Just him holding that fully extended Pike. Poor guy. I know. Poor guy. But we have not only opened the lines of communication, we've now completed them. Anything you want to touch on that we didn't talk about during the episode itself? No, we very much covered everything. I feel like if we were to go back and do anything, we would just be rehashing everything we just said. I agree.

[40:25] Although I will say this. I would love to invite anyone out there who feels like they have comments on what we have to say to email us to the real email address at thebadnerds.gmail.com. And uh jeff and i would love to receive that and engage with you um engage with you on that yeah there's some really great conversation going on in our council chambers chat that i've appreciated i deeply wholeheartedly disagree with almost everything they're saying but that doesn't mean they're wrong it just means i have a different opinion and i think it's great that's one of the things i think is great about just any media but babylon 5 specifically is they like not every single story is completed not every question is answered and that just leaves a lot of room for really good interpretation. Like there's been chat over here of just like, Are the Drak this force that has a bunch of ships and a bunch of firepower and can blow up white stars?

[41:17] Or are they like this quiet behind the scenes things that manipulate others and make them? Or are they a combination of both? What is it? It's a lot of good things to dive into there. So yeah, please do email us with any other thoughts you have. And I imagine people may have thoughts specifically about what you're about to do, Brent. Because it is on you this week to complete the ranking of this episode amongst the other episodes in the fourth season of Babylon 5. It's on me to kind of guess where you're going to put it as I read out our current thing. We have the top 10 as it is today, and so for the first time in the fourth season, something's going to fall out of it. I am going to start at the bottom half of the top 10, with number 6 being The Summoning, number 7, Falling Toward Apotheosis, 8, The Illusion of Truth, 9, Epiphanies, and in 10th place, Racing Mars. Brent, where do lines of communication find itself? Yeah, you're in the right spot for sure.

[42:14] I disagreed with your take last time. I probably would have put Raising Mars above Epiphanies. Actually, there's no probably. I definitely would have put Raising Mars above Epiphanies. And so I'm looking at this going, did I like this episode better or worse than last week? I think I liked it better. Really? Although last week felt more purpose-driven, moving things around, putting things into place. We learned about The Keeper. this week we learned about the drock and saw something there we also got really the fracturing of mimbar society yeah a deep dive into that uh we got the start of the um the podcast.

[42:54] I forget what are they called voice of the resistance. Thank you. Voice of the resistance. Uh, we, we got the Genesis of that. I said in the recap, this was an episode where the parts were greater than the whole. I still feel like that's true, but I feel like the gap between the sum of the parts and the whole is probably lesser to me now than it was the first time around. Okay. Meaning this, I, I feel like I probably enjoyed this episode a lot more. Is it because i know where everything goes and and like i can see that i understand what's important you know what i mean like like i know what i oh yeah that's all that's oh that's a thing oh that's a thing okay cool i think the first time we didn't know these episodes here racing mars lines of communication um like this this this lull that we have they're setting everything up to shoot off in a thousand directions and so when we didn't know where things were going it just was too much. I mean, really, what, where are we going right now? Well, there's the member civil war and then there's the earth thing. Yep. That's really where we're headed. And so everything kind of serves to that purpose and we can kind of ignore everything else that doesn't have to do with that and focus on those things. And this had a lot of those things that lend toward, uh, well, not just earth, but also all the season five stuff specifically.

[44:14] The Centauri prime stuff, which, which is a huge piece of the whole truck deal here. So good episode, better episode, better than racing Mars, better than epiphanies. What about illusion of truth? I really liked illusion of truth. And then from, from there up, it's just fantastic episodes all the way through. So that being said to me, this one's going to slide in right in between illusion of truth and epiphanies slash racing Mars, uh, for their new number nine. Yeah, I don't think I disagree. I would rather watch Racing Mars again than this one, I think. But I think just because it's such a – oh, somebody in the council chambers chat said this, something like it, and it was such a great description. But basically, it's just such a scattershot.

[45:01] Of everything this really kind of focus on like hey there's this voice of the resistance thing going on and there's this rock stuff minbari civil war stuff going on and it was fine but also i'm like actually you know what honestly i think i'm just upset that i don't find pharrell as attractive as i did the first time like i'm really disappointed that yeah yeah it's like oh man was i drinking last time right what was going on yeah what was happening yeah here's the thing if you if you had flip-flopped racing mars and epiphanies this would have been a little bit of a tougher choice for me but they made it pretty darn easy but yeah you having it in the order you did i totally like this better than epiphanies so that man that what a come down from episode six in the epiphanies man yeah it's it's placement in the whole thing was uh it's biggest it did it in it did not it did not help whatsoever well but that is going to do it for lines of communication next week week, we are going to watch an episode called conflicts of interest. Do you remember what you thought about this episode? No. What happens in this episode? Can you, can you give me some sort of a reminder? Cause I, you, you say conflicts of interest.

[46:11] What happens? I think that this is the one where, um, lease, uh, Hampton Edgar's like this gets us a step closer to William Edgar's. We don't see him yet, but this is moving that lease coming back. What I remember is I remember that being one of the biggest eye rolls of this whole series for me really like really really we're going all the way back to that like we dealt with that way back in season two or season one season one yeah i didn't need i don't need her to come back into his life again at this point especially married now to another person and a dude who basically is a sugar daddy for her let's face it yeah like do you buy the relationship between lease and william, At all. Not even a little bit. Not even a little bit, which doesn't do much for Lisa's character. So, yeah, I don't remember. I, I, I, even you say that I still don't really fully remember what happens in this episode. So no, I don't remember what I thought about this episode. I remember that. And I remember Zathras. This is where we go to Epsilon three and say, Hey, can we use you as a high frequency transmitter for our podcast?

[47:21] Oh yeah because that actually does happen and that happens in this episode this episode yeah we get zathras and ivanova together oh this one you know for all the times that you and i said that the whole the whole epsilon 3 thing really was just kind of a waste like this is the thing that people keep coming back to oh no it was the antenna for the thing yep this is the big payoff for all the great machine stuff coming up it was it was that and it allowed them to do the time travel thing for war with that end yeah that was kind of a side story that was that was kind of a side story let's let's face it like if the great machine never happened uh all the story would be the same right that's what we should try and interrogate next week like could we would the entirety of babylon 5 be the same without the great machine that interrogation folks begins next week make sure you're subscribed wherever you're watching or listening to us you don't want to miss this interrogation there's another interrogation coming on later on this season you don't want to miss either so you got to stay plugged into everything uh comment on stuff email us we gave you the email earlier it's also i believe down the show notes we'd love to hear your thoughts on this one you can check out our patreon we got a lot of cool stuff going on there uh the one thing you can do if you want to support us in any way the one that matters the most to us and means so much is if you could share this show with uh with just anybody someone you love someone you hate somebody whatever works for you the best share it with somebody would be awesome i'm excited dive in next week so until then i'm jeff hey jeff, Oh, Brent.

[48:49] I mean, we're not some deep space franchise. This station is about something.