GLP-1s at Work: Weight Bias, Benefits & Who Gets to Be Healthy

GLP-1s at Work: Weight Bias, Benefits & Who Gets to Be Healthy
The Inclusive AF Podcast

LIGHTLY EDITED TRANSCRIPT
Timestamps and subtitle numbering removed. Obvious caption-formatting and name/term errors corrected; spoken wording preserved.
The source captions did not identify speakers, so speaker labels are intentionally omitted rather than guessed.

Welcome, welcome, welcome Here. It's The Inclusive AF Podcast. My name's Jackye Clayton, and I'm the lovely Katee van Horn. Woo woo. Your hair looks very nice today, Jackye. It's as if you're like a, do you know that prowl, like you're a Prell model. You remember like, she took her hair out of the ponytail and shook it out and it was like, perfect. That's what you got going on. You're a Prell model. My, I got the hair. It's brand new hair because of the wedding that I went to this past weekend. very nice. Funny how many people love the hair and they'll be like, oh my God, I've been trying to cover my gray, but you're just owning it. I'm like, actually I'm not even this gray.

No. Like, I'm just trying to be stylish and trendy. You are I wanna be you when I grow up, Jackye. One day. Although we're The exact same age, so I don't know how that's gonna work out, but you know, whatever. You're not exact same age Almost. Katee, I'm 53. I'm so much older than you Jackye. I'm 50. I like to stretch and I like to kick. I'm 50. That's right. Selling my SNL. That's right. Well, speaking of trending, today is a very interesting topic. Yes, it is. GLP-1s Now, Katee picked this topic. We always, I mean like Katee picked the topic. So I wanna go in asking what inspired you to choose this as a topic today? So, there's a couple things that I wanna dig in on.

Number one, I think I, I think most of our listeners know this, both Jackye and I did go down the route of GLP-1s Yeah. To lose weight and to get healthier for different reasons. and well, for the same reason, I think you and I had a shared reasoning of why we wanted to lose weight and we know what the objective was from our doctors. and then I want to go down the path of, from the HR perspective, we're finding a lot of insurance companies will not pay for these GLP-1s. so they're not, you know, covering them. And so my, that piece I wanna talk about because it feels like they're not paying for the GLP-1 coverage almost to keep people on medications that are the cause of being overweight or are because of being overweight.

And then I also wanna talk about what this means in regards to like promotions, et cetera, et cetera. When people do lose weight and how, and do look differently than they maybe used to. You know, I, I can appreciate got a Lot of things to cover today. That Is, I wanna start by saying the first time that I was recommended a GLP-1 was back at the time when I was at hiring solved, I didn't know anything about it. Terrified of even any kind of injections. But excuse me, I remember going and calling my insurance and them saying, no, you don't have any obesity coverage. And it was specifically cho chosen not to do it. And at the time we were with, what's the HR outsource that a lot of people use?

I forg, I forget the name of it, but we were part of that program and the lady on the phone said, I was like, wow, that's kind of extreme. Like any weight loss. It's like, yeah, no weight loss is covered. Right. And they were like, do you have any overweight people at your company? And then I'm like looking around, I'm like, oh my God, I'm like the only fat person at this company. And I remember feeling some kind of way, way and like you said, so Oh, so you would rather like cholesterol or high blood Diabetes, heart Diabetes, all the things. Yeah, all of like, you know, everything is, but it's the equivalent. Like this is a health condition.

So it would be like an organization saying, oh yeah, we don't cover menopause. Are you the only old lady there? And you're like, actually I'm, Well Jackye, we probably shouldn't use that as the example. 'cause that is the case in a lot of insurance companies also. So No, it's the right Examples. Yeah. Are are, let's not, but let's not go down that path today. Let's take on GLP-1. But it makes you feel that same way of like automatic rejection and what does that mean about my health and, and if I have a health concern It's unfortunate when a lot of people do work, the main reason of going to corporate is to have comprehensive insurance. Right.

And then for it to not cover this as a medical condition, I think is Not ideal at all. Well, I think this is the thing, you know, I think for people that are on GLP-1s, and I think a lot of us like to your point, either got a recommendation from a friend or a, a colleague or someone that said, Hey, you should check this out. So we did the research, talked to our medical professional about it. And when I started having these conversations with my nurse practitioner, she was like, you're a perfect candidate. Let's test you to see if you're pre-diabetic. I was not, even though I was, you know, grossly overweight. and so it was one of those things like, well, you're not gonna qualify for this as a response to being pre-diabetic, so we'll have to have you pay for it out of pocket.

Which was extremely expensive. And so it is one of those things that then, you know, I was, I was having issues with, you know, going and getting a heart test and having, you know, heart, a heart condition from, you know, in, in my family or you know, the predis predisposition to heart issues, predisposition to high blood pressure, all of these different things. So it was like, okay, if I lose this weight, this will be very beneficial to me. and then I think it became, you know, a very interesting, especially being in the role that I have been in of I'm the person selecting the benefits a lot of times or, or having those conversations with brokers to say what's covered, what's not.

And to have brokers say, oh, they don't, insurance companies won't cover these. And then starting to dig in on why. And it is They want us to have to go and get five different prescriptions versus lose the weight, get healthier, all of these things. And it just feels like a completely backwards way of approaching health and people's wellbeing. And so it's just, it's very fascinating to me. So, you know, I think for so many people, they did have to come out of pocket or they couldn't because they didn't have the financial means to do that. I was blessed enough that I was able to do that. And I know that you were as well. And so it was one of those things of, okay, we're able to do this because we have the financial means to do it.

Yeah. right. But it's also one of those things that start to talk about what does this change in the way that you're perceived at work as well. 'cause I think that was one, and I don't know what your experience was, but I definitely felt a shift in the way that people responded to me at work, outside of work, socially, all of these different things where it was just a different conversation or people kind of, and, and I'm not talking about like the male gaze or any of that. 'cause yes, that did also shift, but more of the socially, how you are acknowledged, how you are, seen as more worthy was definitely something that shifted for me. Did that shift for you as well, do you think?

I don't think so. And part of it is because like, I've worked remote forever, so like as far as from work, nobody ever knew what I looked back at. Like it took a long time, like before the Yeah. and so it was kind of like, oh, you know, definitely, noticeable. And, but also in my case, I think people thought that because I was like working out and doing all those things for the amazing race, that must be why Oh, That's true. Yeah. instead of, I was like, no, I lost the weight before. But you know, I don't, I hadn't seen people in a long time, but I did notice it does change how people treat me in general. Yeah. Like in weird ways. Like, like people not getting up, like when you need to scoot by, like on a plane or something.

Like weird things like that. Or, I think the biggest part that I noticed a difference in how I was being treated was at the airport. Yes. like, you know, when you're in that middle seat and someone's like, oh, thank God I was worried it was gonna be some fatty in the middle. Yeah. And you're like, Thanks Love that. but I also think for, in my, I I think one of the things that is shocking is I what it, I, I ex I treated myself differently. Like I myself different permissions and didn't realize on how much, using food as a crutch. And I think it's, it's a real challenge. 'cause we, again, there's a million things around this, but from like a mental health perspective, there were things that I didn't realize that I was missing out on or a behavior Yeah.

That surrounded so much around that. I, I, and also socially, I remember a lot of friends, would be mad or frustrated because I didn't wanna keep eating or I couldn't. And, and for those of you who aren't on GLP-1s, like legit and Katee can vouch for this, you cannot have another bite. You get to a point where you're like, I will die if I eat another bite of this burger. I'll be sick. Yeah. like, there, there's, you cannot stomach it down. and so I think a lot of people noticed and then as I'm losing weight and they aren't losing weight, you know, people want you to continue eating and that's frustration for you to do. Or else going out to dinner with you is no fun.

Yeah. And I think for you and I both, it was definitely a, there were health concerns, right. that were very much in support of this. But I, I agree with you on the, mine was more, I mean obviously, you know, I travel a lot and love traveling and going and experiencing new things. And I didn't realize how many things I was saying no to when we traveled able to do more things. And also had the energy and interest in doing more things. 'cause I wasn't like ashamed of, to your point like, oh, you know, I'm glad it's not a fatty sitting between us. the activity 'cause I didn't wanna be looked at a certain way. So yeah, I definitely think it was a I go do these things.

You know, you know, in any type of way, which was totally an internal Oh yeah. Thing I, I'm sure no one was paying attention and you know, that's just us always thinking that we're the center of attention on everything. but I think the, that appearance privilege I think definitely did occur in public and then in other, you know, in other settings where it was more of the people engaged more or, and maybe to your point, it was also my shift mentally and like, oh, I can also join in the conversation or I can also engage with other people where I maybe wouldn't have in the past. So I think there's a lot there as well. So, you know, I think when you think about this, what are your thoughts or have you heard any experiences where it's more of people thinking that like their capabilities have shifted because they are thinner or because they have lost weight?

have you heard anything along those lines or have you had anyone share that with you? Because I think there is that appearance. Privilege is definitely a topic that people maybe don't wanna explore. I think we've explored it from the perspective of when, when you are heavier, I think there is a lack of belief or a feeling like, oh, you can't even take care of yourself. How are you gonna go represent the company or go do whatever. Yeah. I don't, I think I, and to be clear, like I, my mom one time said something really funny. She was like, we aren't anorexic. We have the opposite of anorexia. Like, we think we look really good. So we just keep eating.

Like, I don't understand, like we, we have the opposite of dysmorphia where I've always been like, drop dead gorgeous. Like always had pretty privilege to be queen. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. in my own head. But also the, I think people want to engage and it's not as, I don't know if it, I look more approachable. and Tower. But I don't know. I tell me, have you experienced it? I wanna know what, how, tell me about what your experience has been like that I, I think, and, and again, this is, I'm glad you said what you said earlier of like, was it that other people were perceiving me differently or was I showing up in a different way because I felt more comfortable?

And I think it's a probably a little bit of both that, you know, you're showing up as a different person basically because you are feeling more confident in the way you look. And so you're holding yourself in a different way when you show up in the room. And so I think that is part of it, but it's also, there is also this stigma now of people that have lost weight using GLP-1s. That it's kind of a, oh, well you took the, you took the easy way out. And I can assure everyone, and I know that you'll say the same thing, this was not easy. And and I do work out usually twice a day at this point. in some form or fashion. There's a workout every single day.

And so I think there's that stigma though too, of, well you, you, you took a, you cheated the system or whatever. But I think that there's a, a viewpoint that shifted for me in conversations where I was acknowledged more, or I, I was joining in conversations more and it probably was on both sides that I felt more comfortable joining in the conversation or giving my opinion or whatever it might be. but also I think other people were more inclined to give me attention or to include me in something because I looked healthier or I felt healthier. I don't like, I'm, I'm probably not describing it correctly I've had, but I, and I've had like weird stuff I'll, I'll never forget, like, you know, carrying over a extra weight.

It does act as a shield in certain situations. And part of it is like keeping yourself safe, right? Yes. Yes. And I remember at one point like looking really cute that day and turning around and this man is, was what I thought was flirting, like direct eye contact, like deep, I'm looking at you thing. Yeah. And I like pushed a person outta the way, almost tripped all over myself. Like, I looked like I saw a ghost terrified. And I've also, that like one day we'll have, we have to have a conversation about men, period. Like full stop. Because I'm like, someone said, oh, your husband must be happy. And I was like, Listen, the executive producer is always happy regardless.

And even when he is not happy, he's happy. Let's be very clear about where the husband is in this. Also, my husband's like a full chubby chaser. Like if you want to know husband, Okay. Choice. Choice. It would be like a fluffy black girl. He, oh my God, loves he just like, he loves it. And also for those that dunno, my husband is like thin, like pretty super thin. And I, he's the same weight as I met him when I was 19 and I am not. and so like, I think that was weird. Like why would you say that like at a professional conference that my husband would be happy 'cause I'm losing weight. Right. Because why? Well, and it's also a Better to look at like, yeah.

The only, well, I was just saying if it's, if that's the only attachment you have to your husband is the physical, then that's not ideal for most relationships. I would think so. But here's the part that is important that we're not talking about. And again, you didn't wanna go to the age thing, but I think it makes a big difference once you hit 50 and you go pass and you're still commanding audiences and you're standing on stage. This is the part that people, and I had said this to my now ex-friend, nobody wants to see someone on stage that reminds them of everything they don't wanna be Right. Right, right. And it doesn't like, you call me ableist, call me sexist call, whatever.

But it's the truth and the reality of the matter that we already know as women, we're not gonna be taken as seriously as women in tech, as women, as leaders, as women execs and, and whether we're worthy and commanding a stage and getting discredited. Like you still have to look like you have yourself together. Right. And I think that there is an impression that you be, you don't have any control or self-control when you look like that. And it was really important. If you wanna stay relevant, that means you have to take good care of yourself and make sure you're moisturizing and doing all the things Right. Or else you will not be invited to be on stage and get in certain audiences.

It's just, just the fact. Right. Right. That it Well, as a woman, Yeah. Let's be very clear. 'cause I think you, I both know and can list names right now today of men who that isn't the case where they, they have not taken care of themselves over the years. They have not, you know, done what they need to do and are still getting called and getting paid quite a bit of money. but I, I think it also, so yes, I think age and I'm gonna say maintenance, I don't know if that that's the right word, but, you know, like taking care of yourself just across the board. Right. But I also like, I mean this also begs like a whole different level of conversation when we go down that path of like, and I know you and I have talked about this, like when you and I kind of started going, okay, we're gonna start speaking and wearing jeans and sneakers versus being dressed in a full suit and heels and all the things.

And it, and I know like, I, I think this was the same for you. It for me, it was like, oh my God, am I gonna be taking taken seriously if I show up in jeans and a hoodie and whatever? Whereas again, our male counterparts were absolutely doing that and it was no big deal. And I'm talking CEOs at all, you know, at every level of the organization. So I think there's that piece as well. But you know, getting back to the GLP-1 and kind of the weight loss and weight period, it's also the, the part that is also an issue is that because this coverage isn't happening, they're saying that, you know, the GLP-1s are so costly that they can't cover it from a benefits perspective, but they're, they're, and that people that, and the companies that are covering it from an insurance perspective are seeing higher, pharmaceutical costs.

But when you weigh it against that longer term, so yes, it won't improve the diabetes that all of these things in that one year, but it will longer term improve the health of the person overall. And I mean, their study after study after study is proving again and again how great these meds are. Now, is there gonna be some downstream impact? I'm sure there will be, as with any drug, but it's also a, when you see the benefits and see the longer term impact, a we need to get the price of these GLP-1s under control. Pharmaceutical companies stop being greedy. but also it's one of those things where if we can get people healthier overall and off these other medications, the longer term impact to cost to employers would vastly improve.

And, and there are studies that they're now doing to see kind of that longer term impact now that GLP-1s have been much more normalized, to say like, okay, what medications are you now not taking because you lost this weight? And I, I mean, I had team members in my last organization that went off pretty much every other drug that they were taking and were just taking the GLP-1s. And so they're like, Katee, why can't we get this covered? If this is the only thing I'm now taking, this should actually help the company. And I'm like, yeah, this, it doesn't make any sense at all. So no, It, I think it does more than that. And what, what I hope as they're doing these studies is not just how much are we saving overall because of the impact of medicine and long term Yes.

But you have to look deeper, like look at days off or looking at productivity or looking at all of those things because yes, that's where the, the difference, lies. And like, or the motivation, or how did they view themselves or Right. Did they participate more? Because I think to your point, when people have that, it does give you a certain level of co confidence. Yes. And part of it is how you're internalized Kate or shame for being at a particular size. and for me, and I think, I don't wanna speak for you, like I was like got really thin and then I had to, like, when I had my surgery, I had to get to a comfortable place where I was like, that is a lot and weird.

I, you know, and like having to put that together. But I, but that's the part of the study that we need to know if somebody's mental health is better, are they able to participate more? Do they, you know, partici, are they using any of the other benefits that we have? Right. Like fitness, because know why, like I, the amount of loss just for my body thermometer alone allowed me to do so many more things that I've never been able to do before. Yeah. and like in participating, and once you have that empowerment of I can do hard things, it only is gonna benefit the organization. You know, Katee and I, you know, went on a hike together in Arizona and there was a point where there was absolutely no way either one of us would've been doing that.

No, a hundred percent no. Yeah. And, and wouldn't have wanted to, it Wouldn't even have crossed our minds. And if we would've said it, we might've, you know, we might've fight. We might, it might've been our last day. We both didn't lose weight. No, no, no, we would've laughed and then gone to the bar and ate a bunch of food and drunk and had a Bunch of drinks jokes and say so, and been like, but I think that's the part that also is not being talked about as a result of this. You are gonna have to, if you're, especially if you're not gonna cover GLP-1, you are gonna have to do the mental health. Because one thing that I did notice is If this is a coping mechanism and it's been taken away, you know, I quit smoking.

I, I don't have that. And so it means you have to deal with the real issues. Like you can't eat your feelings anymore. And so, Okay. So that's a whole nother piece to this. And I'm so glad you brought it up because I think that's another piece is that for those folks who have not used a GLP-1, you do not want to you do not want to do anything that feels like not good for you or, or makes, because it literally, like I remember making a cocktail and I took a sip of it and I was like, oof, no, I do not wanna drink this. This is disgusting. And so I think that's part of it too, is that there's the what are you, what other vices are no longer there that are unfortunately a, you know, a coping mechanism for a lot of people.

And so I think that's also part of it is that, you know, the, you're getting healthier across the board on so many different things, right? Not just your weight loss. You're also eliminating a lot of other things from your lifestyle that weren't good for you. But to your point, mentally, what does that do if you're now having to face some of these other things that you didn't because you would drown your sorrows or go smoke a cigarette or go do whatever. So Right. I mean there's that part, but I, I, I mean it is not just HR is like our healthcare is just trash. Yes. and which is part of that, like in our country, it's not, we're just not trying to get people healthy and be preventative and Right.

The, the I, you know, call me a conspiracy theorist, but part of the reason they don't want people to get on GLP-1s is because of what that just exactly what you're talking about from a pharmaceutical perspective. Oh, now we're no longer giving diabetes or like the insulin or Yeah. All of this different kind of medication. And so there's people that are losing weight and organizations that are losing money from people being healthier. Yeah. Well, and I think it also, it goes to like another, I mean, there's 75 different directions this could go in, but it's also the kind of keeping people in line. It's like, you know, our food is trash in the us our, our, trash in the us and like there is definitely a, the alcohol companies, the tobacco companies, the, the insurance companies, the pharmaceutical companies, they have an agenda and the agenda is make more money.

And so they don't want healthy people who aren't drinking, who aren't smoking, who aren't eating their, you know, body weight and nachos every night. you know, they want to keep people into their, you know, in a certain place and in a certain lifestyle. But I also think, I'd be curious to know, you know, the US is supposedly, and I don't know what the stats are now, but for the longest time it was that the US was the most obese country like in the world. And so I'm curious to know if that has shifted at all now that GLP-1s are being used. but I think we can go one step further back to this kind of class race conversation. Two of, because of the financial impact to purchasing these GLP-1s, are you only helping people that are at a financial, at a specific financial level?

right. And the answer is yeah, absolutely. And so what does that do and what's the impact then from a, I'm gonna say class perspective, but like it is a, the blue collar worker probably isn't going to be able to afford these medications. And so it's Work for everybody. So Right, There's but here's the other part with that like to like going down that path as well and all of the things and from an elitist standpoint, so then let's use it as a workforce strategy standpoint. Yeah. We cover GLP-1s. You might have a load of people that would be willing to change because they need it for health benefits and they'll do the work there because the organization is willing to pay for it and they're gonna have a better benefit because you know, obesity causes more people to be absent, more body and pains, more disability claims, more injuries, you know, more long-term chronic disease.

So be the organization that covers the GLP-1, not only will you have people that are willing to jump ship because it can't afford $1,500 or whatever it is today a month. Yeah. Yeah. If you see a thousand, $1,500 a month, there's different programs now. But the thing is, think about it. Yeah. Right now we know what is the average time that somebody's at a organization, what is it? Two years? Take somebody who also, like employer A is gonna pay for prevention. Right. But employer B gets a healthier employee that's working on a long-term basis. Even if it is you're doing your best work because you wanna be able to have this benefit and you're not gonna leave unless you go to another organization that has that benefit.

This is going to happen. Right. You've already here first folks. Yes. Yeah, no, Absolutely. It's gonna be like come work at Amazon, sell your so to Amazon, we cover GLP-1s and I guarantee watch the, well they have it, They do have their own pharmacy, so they could actually, and they probably do provide that to their employees. Yeah. But like, I think it is a, this goes back to access and what people have access to and you know, having access to food, having access to different things, education, et cetera. This is just another one of those things that is almost a class related conversation versus a can we just get people healthy period. And that's what we should focus on.

But I agree with you wholeheartedly that the organizations that are supporting the use of GLP-1s and and covering them are going to benefit from that because people are gonna say, Hey, you actually care about us being healthy versus wanting us to be on every medication under the sun And you're gonna have to deal with bias for people that are like, no, I don't wanna be on a GLP-1. And how does that affect promotions and hiring when you do offer it as a benefit and you have somebody that, you know, mine your business mind your at a certain weight at a mine, your business weight. And it's like, why don't you just take the GLP-1s and you're gonna get sued for like, discrimination.

Like I see A hundred percent. That's absolutely, yeah, that's the other side of the coin as well, is that like, it is the, how far does this go? And I think if there is any type of correlation in who's getting promoted to who is using these drugs or who has lost weight on these drugs, yes. We're gonna see something come down the, the road here that is going to say, Hey, the only reason why I got this promotion was because of this. And Johnny didn't get the promotion 'cause he didn't lose the weight. So I think that that is for sure a an impact that we may see. But I think that the bigger piece for me is the let's get our folks healthy and how do we do that in the right way?

Do that. I don't think anybody wants, like, I don't, I mean, who cares about employees right now? Like we're Okay, Fair. Where, I mean, come on, we're, we're seeing, you know, wages, super layoffs. We're seeing, you know, just certain things that are going on in the year of our Lord 2026 that we haven't seen in a really long time. Right. And like, which is all going, we don't really care about employees, we just care about the bottom line is what we're seeing at a lot of different organizations. Right. And so I don't know if that isn't enough of a priority because it, it, there, it isn't like, I mean, majority of organizations will want to do the minimum amount in order to support, like we've seen the benefits game shift And what has been considered, a benefit, it used to be insurance, like stamp.

Yeah. I mean there's different levels, but now it's wild to think that you could work at an organization that has health insurance that you're paying Partially, for that does not, there's other chronic illnesses that insurance like Yeah. Cover a hysterectomy or chose, doesn't cover the place down the road and you have to go someplace. Like, I don't know, we're in a season where it's an employer's market and so it's gonna take a shift, I think, to being a candidate market for us to be a significant enough change in this and other benefits to support Agreed. We care about the employee. Agreed. Agreed. Yes. I, I think that is very true. So I think, you know, I I know we just opened up kind of a little bit of a can of worms without a lot of answers, but just some things for our colleagues in HR and leaders to be thinking about.

'cause I think that's really what this is. It is not a here's the solution, it's a, this needs to be an ongoing conversation and change needs to come probably more quickly than we want it, or I, sorry, less quickly than we want it. but it is something that is gonna continue to come up and we need to figure out and how do we make sure that our employees are taken care of, especially in the face of companies that just don't care what's going on with their employees right now. Yeah. I mean, I think it is the answer to why don't you just stop eating or when we understand we're not, we, you know, doing that and finding healthier ways to cope, to support people of being their best and doing their best work just has not come out in a timely manner.

Like it just hasn't caught up, you know? Right, Right. No, agreed. and I think that's one of those things where how do we position this in the right way? So Jackye, what's one thing you wanna make sure people, heard during this episode? During this That I have been, was sexy at my highest weight. Okay. At my thinnest weight. Fair. And I, I don't, I don't disagree with that. I wanted to be here or heard. I Think you're gorgeous regardless. Yes. I wanna make sure other people know that I am. And also, Yes. But the other thing is like, I think it's really important that people know that it, this is like a real health issue. It's a health concern and it is been like changing for, I don't wanna speak for you, but it has been life changing for I think for me at least.

And I think you can, it's been life changing for you in a positive way and we've been able to do this for a long time. So Yeah. Absolutely. I, and I think that, yes, for me it definitely has been life changing and it's also just opened my eyes to what I can do instead of thinking, oh, I can't do that because I'm a certain weight or because I am whatever. So I think it's definitely something that, for me, it's been a, it's, it's life changing. That's the right expression for sure. So, all right, miss Jackye, this is Katee Van Horn. This is Jackye Clayton. Bye bye. And then I press the button. Yep. Okay.