How Multi-Passionate Creatives Can Beat Imposter Syndrome | Matt Evans, Comic/Writer/Horse Vet

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (00:00)
Pick a lane, niche down, master just one thing. That's the conventional path to success every creative hears. But you and I know it's rarely that simple. And when you have multiple skills, you have to show up and overcome the fears and imposter syndrome of not just one area, but multiple ones. So which is it? Is working in multiple fields a path to confusion and failure as a creative? Or is God showing you a unique path that actually breaks the mold?

To figure this out, we're going to talk to Matt Evans, who is, get this, a comic, a writer, and a horse doctor. Listen to the end of this podcast to find out if blending multiple careers and passions can actually help you find your unique God-given path as a creative, even if you have to repeatedly show up and overcome your fears.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (00:55)
Matt Evans, welcome to the God and Gig Show. How are you?

Matt Evans (00:58)
I'm great. Thanks so much for having me. Glad to be here.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (01:01)
If someone's meeting you for the first time, but just at a grocery store, in the coffee shop, you don't have to give them the entire bio. Just what are those few things you like people to know about you, the guy, Matt, upon first meeting?

Matt Evans (01:12)
Yeah, I tell I'm a writer, I'm a stand up comic, and a horse doctor, which I am the only one of all three of those. I'm a one off.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (01:22)
What are

Matt Evans (01:22)
Mm-hmm.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (01:23)
the reactions that you usually get when you give people those three?

Matt Evans (01:25)
Confusion. Yeah.

Mass confusion. Yeah, usually like a a glitch. Like, wait, what what now? And then they and then they want to know like what which one of those were you first?

You know, that's that's always a follow up question. Yeah. And it Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (01:38)
Hmm. Okay, so I'll go ahead and let since you since you since you set up the follow up question, I'll let you answer it.

Matt Evans (01:45)
Yeah, and i I was a horse doctor before I did anything creative. I you know, went right through undergrad and veterinary school.

and became a veterinarian and became a horse doctor in two thousand three. And so that that that that was first by a long shot. You know, of course, to you know, when you're doing work stall side, I didn't realize that I was also a stand up comedian. but I was you know, I was just doing it for a a a crowd of two or three people, you know, with each each patient. so I I didn't know I was at the time, but I was I was doing stand up bits every day at work. I just was unaware.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (02:20)
So

a little bit of a patch Adams before became a thing. You were using

Matt Evans (02:25)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (02:25)
that as your bedside manner. I love this. However, I do I did read a little piece and hopefully, you know, my research did not lead me the wrong way, that your love of horses did come from a love of books in some way. That the literary, I don't guess, was it something that inspired you to actually even get, you interested in in and f and being around horses and being around animals?

Matt Evans (02:46)
Yeah, for sure. And I you know, I think that speaks to the power of books, but I and I and I this kinda I blend this in in one of the first chapters of my book, but I had an English teacher give me a copy of James Harriet's All Creatures Great and Small, which is this a wonderful book. he wrote an entire series. He w he was a veterinarian in England

really great reading and and from the moment I read that book I wanted to be a veterinarian. It it sold me on it.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (03:11)
Wow. And that like you said is such a testament to a area in the creative space, someone writing about this that gave you a a c or a a inkling or a a desire to enter a whole nother space which was not creative, which was in medicine and actually caring for these animals. And so what I really am curious about is even in medicine, obviously I have no particular experience in medicine, but I do know that the rigor

of going through medical school, and then especially around, you know, the animal sciences must have been incredible. So just give me a little idea of the obstacles and I'm gonna set this up for later when we talk about the obstacles of creative life. But just tell me a little

Matt Evans (03:50)
Right.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (03:50)
bit about like, you know, going into a world that maybe I don't know you weren't as familiar with or was either had a huge learning curve.

Matt Evans (03:57)
Right. I mean I think you know, th that that level of learning is difficult for everybody to go through professional school and then you know, it's really hard, because you're learning things that you don't really have a framework to to handle. And so they're teaching you like when you see this issue, you're gonna have this list of differential diagnoses and you've never seen that issue before. So I always viewed it like like they're handing me information that's clothes on a hanger.

You know, and they're just giving it to me one after another after another. But I I don't have a closet set up. So or you know, I've got a little bit of room but not much in there. So I hang up what I can desperately, but a lot of it I'm like, thank you for this and I'm just throwing it on the ground. And then later on in your career you've got to go through that pile of clothes and be like, okay, I remember this now. This is a you know, this is this piece of knowledge, and then you have a place to hang it up, but you h you have to have that practice time and that that's really painful time for any young professional.

be a new at something, you know, and I think we all go through some imposter syndrome where we don't believe we belong in our job. and so and I think that's a big part of it is that you you have this knowledge but you don't know where you put it and and you and you don't know how to access it and you don't know what to do with it. And it y that's why they call it practice is you have to go through and do that. And then my mine was magnified even more so because about halfway through veterinary school I decided I really wanted to be a horse veterinarian.

but I wasn't raised around horses. I didn't grow up riding. And so like the the feeling of being an imposter as a veterinarian w you know, I I magnified it by a hundredfold because I decided like I'm I'm gonna be a a horse doctor when I wasn't raised around And so I had to I really was an imposter as a horse person. I had to learn how to handle how to talk to horse people, all that. And so I you know, that that process of going through that I think

you know, we will see some parallels with that with the creative journey 'cause those feelings are very similar. They actually don't change, even though it's so much more of a you know, like a you know, it's medicine. You're using logic, you're solving problems, the outcomes frequently are very finite. whereas, you know, I make a painting, you say it's good, somebody else says it's bad, you know, it's subjective. But much much more objective, very nice of you to say it's good, by the way.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (06:14)
c no,

Matt Evans (06:15)
No, it's

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (06:15)
of course.

Matt Evans (06:16)
yeah. No, it's y yeah, just one or another. But you know, it's like a it's more objective but the but that process of learning to learn, learning to create train your brain to take on new tasks and then also going through that hard part where you you know how how it should work, but it's not working that way for you and you have to just keep on applying yourself to get through it.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (06:39)
Wow. And one thing that definitely kind of equates as well with the creative space, the imposter syndrome you just mentioned, and then the other part has to be the prospects. Must be even deeper in terms of failure, in terms of not knowing, of being

You know, those moments where like, you know, I mean, these are beautiful creatures and you are limited as a person, as a doctor, every doctor has to say, hey, you know, I'm gonna do my best, but not every case comes out the way you want it to, just like when you're creating something, not everything turns out the way it wants. So talk a little bit about that. Like how do you handle like the mental strain, I guess, of being able to go into this profession? Cause again, when we talk about the other professions, there's another type of mental strain. So how do you handle that in terms of just being in this very high stakes area?

Matt Evans (07:26)
It's really hard and I and I think a lot of veterinarians, especially young veterinarians, really struggle with it. We have a really a lot of issues with mental health and veterinary medicine. We have a like a record high suicide rate. because I think people struggle with that a and I know I did too. You know, it's a like you don't become a veterinarian unless you love animals. Like you become a veterinarian because you love animals so much that you could have gone to medical school, you could have gone to dental school. There's so much easier ways to to not that being a doctor is easy, I'm that's what I'm saying, but

You know, there's there's better debt to income ratios. You chose to be a veterinarian, you were like, This is what I'm gonna do, even though I'm gonna pay a lot for education and make less money. And so you get out and then you are working on animals, these beautiful creatures, owned by these people that love And and sometimes, you know, in medicine things don't work out. Like you said, everything we do, if done at the wrong time or in the wrong way, can have consequences. That's you know, if it's really medicine it can do harm well as well when it's not

appried appro applied appropriately and and that's really painful to to know that you're involved in cases where an animal did not do well and it and it that was directly reflective of your choices. and so that that's really hard to deal with and and that's a lot of pressure that we live under. So I think the you know, a lot of things got me through my faith, my family, support, good mentors at just the right time. Those things are invaluable.

but one of the important things was for me was humor. and it was and I I did not realize how vital humor was in my journey, like until I started researching it to kind of promote the book. I've what I've learned is that it I'm not unique. I'm not the only person that humor is powerful for, right? That when we're laughing and connecting was people when I was making clients laugh outside the stall before I worked on a horse.

they were more engaged with me, twenty three percent more engaged. They're like they view they viewed me as I think the studies show thirty percent more competent if I was making them laugh. which I needed that thirty percent more competent. I needed that bad. you know and so the the other thing is like it when when we're laughing together just like we did now, like our brains are awash in dopamine and serotonin and oxytocin and these are they talk about these drugs, these are like you know the hormones that we get from exercise, mothers and children.

And so it's combating all those stress hormones, which is cortisol, which is you know, when you're looking at a case and you don't know what to do and you're and you know that if you make the wrong decision it's gonna cause harm, you're terrified and that that cortisol, that's fight or flight, which is fine if you need to fight or flight, but but

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (10:10)
Yeah.

Matt Evans (10:10)
I d what what I need to do is get back up into my logical forebrain, use my head and and so humor has that power to do that. It's not the only thing, but it was really pivotal for me, but it's kinda blown me away.

as I've been r researching it, there's a ton of data out there and it and it's something that I think we could all incorporate in our lives to have better mental health and better communication.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (10:33)
I love the fact that you're applying this directly to again how you can make better decisions and apply it to helping your your patients, helping your clients to, you know, handle this. But I love the fact that you're also talking about this in terms of your faith. You mentioned that, how it gets you through. And then the proverb that immediately came to me is the proverb about

Laughter and ha and humor being good medicine, health to the bones. And so the

Matt Evans (10:56)
Right.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (10:56)
Bible's clearly says, hey, this is a way that you can heal yourself or use it as a a part of healing is to have this humor, have this mirth, have this laughter and happiness that actually does promote healing and health in your you know in in us. So I'm curious now because you talked about that, about using humor, when was

Matt Evans (11:17)
Mm-hmm.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (11:18)
When did it start to leave from simply being a way to help you h with your clients and with your own mental health and become something that you actually wanted to do as a, you know, as a stand up comedian? There's a big difference between using

Matt Evans (11:32)
Right.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (11:33)
right, but using it on the job and helping yourself to kind of cope and actually standing up in front of people with a microphone.

Matt Evans (11:38)
Huh.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. There's a huge difference between the two. because if I didn't make people laugh, you know, then I could at least get back to work on their horse, you know. Whereas on stage I can't practice veterinary medicine and get out of there. I you know, about I don't know, two thousand thirteen, fourteen, I can't remember exactly what year, I I was at our church retreat and our pastor's son, his oldest son was a high school student, was getting in the stand-up comedy and they said he's gonna get up at the retreat and and tell some jokes, and I was terrified for.

for him. You know, I didn't know normal people could be stand-up comics. Like it was like no no. but he got he he's he's a really good comic. He he ended up winning funny ass person in Austin several years later. He's i he's a he's a big deal. And I was seeing as a him as a young kid, but he already had good chops and he was comfortable on stage. but he got up and he told some jokes that were the same kind of observational humor I had thought of for that church too. Like we had a we had an awkward bathroom. The men's room was awkward, you know, and so he made some jokes about the men's room.

And I was like, I've been making that joke too. You know, and so I realized that like what I do on a day-to-day basis where I kinda observe that the world's a weird, funny place, and then I make cracks about it with everybody I meet, that's how stand-up is built. So it it never occurred to me until then. you know, because I would go on farm calls, you know, we drive out to see a horse, and I'd have something happen to me, and I'd tell the story on Monday, and then, you know, I'd get a couple of laughs, and then I'd realize people get bored during this part. And then on Tuesday I'd cut the boring part out and I'd get a couple of more laughs.

By the end of the week, you know, I'd have a pretty good bit, you know. I didn't realize I was writing stand-up. So but he seeing him on stage made me realize that normal people could get on stage, which are really that's how slow I am on the uptake. I thought if you were a stand-up comic that you were just God made you in a factory somewhere, stamped you out and was like off to go to stand-up land. yeah, which is a lot of them, you know, are almost that way. but so I I started doing stand-up around 2015. I did some open mics.

They were miserable. If anybody would like to do open mics, good for you. Depends on your your scene. Some of them can be really supportive, and there's some supportive ones in the Austin scene where people actually pay attention, give you feedback, you get some good camaraderie. But some of them, you know, it's just like it's a bar, it's nine o'clock at night, everybody does their own set and goes outside and smokes cigarettes and doesn't even listen to you, you know.

So I did that and I was like, I don't think this is for me. You know, I don't I have a fan.

I have a job. I don't have time to drive into town, you know, arm wrestle 20-year-olds for a three-minute spot that nobody's gonna pay attention to. and I would have dropped it at that, but I got a chance to do stand-up at one of our big equine practitioner conferences. one of a guy put on a it was a f fundraiser for our foundation, and he was like, Every veterinarian has good stories, and he's right, we all have got a great story about this or that, some crazy thing that happened to us or whatever. And so he's like, He's we'll get up and tell stories and people.

People will pay money to come in and we'll we'll raise money for the foundation. And and I had told him in a moment of foolishness that I had done stand-up comedy before. And and so he's like, All right, let's have you do stand-up. So I got to do, I wrote a 10-minute set and I wrote it. it was all equine veterinary jokes, all horse doctor jokes, but it was real like if I told you the jokes, you'd be I don't get why that's funny, but it was, you know, it's very industry specific, inside baseball

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (15:04)
Gotcha.

Matt Evans (15:05)
kind of. But it it hit and it killed, you know.

my I remember I was so nervous I got on stage. You I'm not a performer. I didn't I I was not a theater kid, so I got on stage and I was worried if my voice was even gonna work, you know. but I got my first joke out and that the laughter, you know, three hundred people in a ballroom just rolled up and it was like, I want more of this

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (15:26)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Evans (15:26)
But you know that was enough. You know every everybody who does stand up has one story like that. They have this one good show that they didn't really deserve that like is that positive feedback to keep you going. Otherwise you would never

Keep doing it. If all you ever did was bomb, you know.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (15:42)
Yeah. But I love the fact that you still with that fear, right? That fear of stepping up. We just talked about the fear of stepping into being a horse vet when you didn't have experience and now you're stepping into this area where you haven't had experience in terms of being a comedian in front of your peers, which it's gotta be even more scary. And I'm sure yeah,

Matt Evans (15:59)
It was terrifying.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (16:00)
and sure that

imposter syndrome then again wants to attack. So I feel like we're coming to this theme of how do you overcome that imposter syndrome each time? And it seems like, and I'm don't tell me if I'm wrong, it seems like each time you seem to lean more into the do it afraid. it didn't seem like you went into any kind of tactical, logical thing. Like you went more into the I'm just going to step into this even if the emotions don't say good step into it.

Matt Evans (16:29)
Yeah, I agree. You yeah, you nailed it. and I and I think there's something to be said for once you do that in one area, then you feel more empowered to do it in other areas over and over. Yeah, it you know, and I I think

that that you you're like, okay, I I handled it. I I was terrified to be a horse vet and I can be terrified to be a stand up comedian. And I and I think, you know, not to confuse the issue, but but in between becoming a horse vet and and and becoming a stand up I I started painting. and so like I and painting's not as old as terrifying as getting on a stage because I don't really have to be there when people are looking at my paintings or I don't have to you know, I'm not like, what do you think? You know, tell me you love me. But

But I did learn kind of the process is same as becoming a horse vet, really, it's the same process of like, okay, you wanna do this thing, you have no training in this area, you're you know, y you don't feel like you were born to be a painter, but I really wanna do it. So how do I do that? So I get interested, I start to read books, I find a teacher, you know, I get feedback, and then I just do it over and over again and I and I start to close the gap between what I'm creating and what things that I wanna create. So I kinda

had that in my back pocket too and I think that helped. I think you know but the if the brazenness and the f and the you know ability to get on stage definitely was from having been a horse vet and other t other experiences in my past too i I was I went to AM and I was in the Corps of Cadets which is a you know AM used to be a all military school and then

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (18:03)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Matt Evans (18:05)
the Corps still exists and that was just a good experience for me in a lot of ways to learn leadership but one of the things I learned how to do was just

do a little bit of suffering. You know, it's like it had a had a had a hurt a little bit. you know, 'cause we we need tenacity too. You know, we have to we have to be able to work through things. And so I think that was really valuable and played into it as well. So that's the

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (18:28)
Wow.

Matt Evans (18:29)
longest, most convoluted way to answer that I could think of.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (18:31)
Not at all. It was it was so

well put because again you tied in all three of these areas, your painting, your your stand-up comedian career, and basically all of them, like you said, and it's incredible that you said that. And I wanted to kind of dig more into it because when you just said they're all similar and it feels like they're not similar at all in terms of the output, but the input is you you you just said it like 'cause I was gonna ask a question about these three identities that you have.

And whether you're able to tie them together and feel like you're a cohesive person versus having hat, veterinarian, hat, you know what I mean? And like you're splitting yourself into these three areas. But by you saying

Matt Evans (19:09)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (19:10)
those words, it says, no, no, no, no. It's a very cohesive way that you look at the world. Now, I'll I hate putting myself in interviews, but I'll just say it because it's the first thing that pops into my head. I tell people that, you know, I'm not like just a pianist or just a podcaster, just a whatever. These are simply the ways I express who I am.

Matt Evans (19:28)
That is so

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (19:28)
So

Matt Evans (19:28)
good. That's exactly right. Yeah. That yeah, these are these are how I express who I am for sure. I you know, I think like if I'm making a painting, it starts with a blank canvas. And if I'm making a standup set it starts with a blank page, or if I'm writing a book, it starts with an electronic blank page. Those are all the same. Now you would say to yourself,

this not blank with horse medicine with doctoring, right? But it but the problem solving to it is very much similar. That I get presented a horse and I'm starting to take in information, you know, I'm taking in the the history, like what the, you know, the the historical information of the horse, what it's being fed, what the clinical complaint is, what the owner says is wrong, you know, and I'm cycling through that. That's very similar to how you solve a painting problem or a writing problem. You know, I kind of bring all that stuff to the page and then I have to

be like, okay, you know, you start to apply the ways you've learned to solve those problems. So yeah, I don't know, it all it all goes almost exactly the same. I know that when I'm doing logical things, like you know deciding the drug dose I'm gonna give a horse, that's very left brain business. You know, that's numbers and and and words. And I know when I'm painting and that's very much right brain, left hand business. So I I do think there's you're using different sides of your brain.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (20:49)
Okay.

Matt Evans (20:50)
And but I but I d it's almost like the mechanism works the same whether it's each side or not, is the way it feels to me.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (20:58)
I hear you, but no, I definitely love the fact that you don't have to again think about it in two different ways.

you do combine it, but that I think you're leaning to one or the other. And so my curi my curiosity is leading me to this in terms of your inspiration for being creative, what leads you to get out of the logical and to go into more of the inspirational, more into the what should I paint today? What what's funny today? What idea can I start to work into a bit? So what tools, what things do you use to kind of find that inspiration that that engage your creative side?

Matt Evans (21:33)
I think taking in a lot of art is important. I think the you know, having the fact that a book influenced me, I was a big reader, always ha have been a still a big reader, so I'm constantly like feeding into that and then you know, going to museums and seeing what kind of paintings people have made before you and then all of a sudden, you know, when you're out looking at a scene, all of a sudden your your brain starts to be like, th I you know, this is just like that Monet. I can see it out there. 'cause learning to paint is learning to see and I I I think the same

thing with learning to write stand-up comedy is learning to like almost like be able to smell it when you're like something's not right about that you know like that something's you know irritating about that or something seems off and all of a sudden then you can start with that idea and work to a joke but a lot of that's because I've just taken in a lot of stand-up comedy too. Same as reading, same as looking at paintings. Like I spent a lot of time watching comics that I admire work and so seeing how

jokes are structured, seeing what they turned into jokes, and then you run into something similar in your own life and you're like, okay, yeah, I can make a joke about this.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (22:41)
I love that. And are there any books or anything like that in terms of like routines that you've done? Because I'm thinking about the time management side too. Like when you have time to do all this? So, you know what I mean? So so

Matt Evans (22:50)
Right.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (22:51)
is it like the first thing in the morning that you get up? Is it like, you know, the artist way with the morning pages? Is it something

Matt Evans (22:57)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (22:57)
else where like there's a way that you can kind of keep this flowing? Cause again, I'm thinking about just the person that's listening or watching right now that's like, when how do I engage this? Again, I love the idea of going, but I think

Maybe they're they're kind of like, Well, yeah, that's easy for you to say 'cause you've already been doing this for a while and you have your so what are some of the processes?

Matt Evans (23:15)
Right. Yeah, if y

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (23:16)
Yeah.

Matt Evans (23:17)
Yeah, if somebody is interested in like a book to kinda point in the in the right way to if they're having trouble getting started, if they're feeling blocked, you know, is a key word that is th that book that you just mentioned, the artist way, was crucial to me moving from being kind of a creative to being much more creative and making a much larger volume of work. And you know, what she talks about that I find really beautiful is that she's you know, she's a little you know, she's not pure

I wouldn't most Christians probably wouldn't love her and most atheists wouldn't love her. She's in the middle, you know, she's gonna have air to every sh she says there is a God. There is a creator that we were made to create and that creator delights in us creating. And if we the here's a trick. But you've gotta figure out how to how to do the work. And and you know, I always say it put my rear end in the chair, you know, but because a lot of what I do is writing that's you know, that but

I gotta get in front of the easel or I've got to get into the chair. And and so you know, the art the morning pages are helpful with that. I'm I get up every morning and I write three pages long hand and they're

it's not a journal, it's not like a record of what happened yesterday. And sometimes it looks a lot like prayer and sometimes it looks a lot like complaining, and sometimes it's really dreamy, you know, it's like big ideas and dreams and lovely things and sometimes it's miserable, sometimes dealing with the same problem over and over and over again. But she th her name's Julia Cameron and what what she says is that's

you know, when you're doing that, you're kind of sending radio waves out to God. You're just kinda emptying out and you're like trying to open up that communication there. And then the other thing she talks about is doing the artist date, which is you're not trying to create anything, you're not trying to learn anything. You're just taking your child artist out on a date, whether it's a walk or to a museum or to sit down and read a good book. And so that's when you're taking things in, you know, you're you're receiving and those those things and this sounds so woo woo that I I can hear the eyes rolling.

And I don't blame you. I'm a doctor, so but it there you know it's it works, you know, it's it it it sets you up to where you're open

to be creative and then you you know, next thing you know I get in the chair and I start writing and I write one essay and and and the critic is quiet and I just put that essay aside and I write another essay and then I go back and edit that first essay and I'm not happy with the whole thing. I'm not happy with lots of it. But I cut passages out and I rewrite it and then at that point it's almost like you've covered the the the canvas with paint and now I can edit. I can if you know once I have the blue sky in I can cut a little bit of that out and add a cloud if I

I want to but it's really hard to do any nothing, you know, to to fix a blank canvas. So

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (26:15)
That's

so true. gosh, I love that you just said about doing nothing and people thinking that the inspiration is just going to come out of nowhere. And even in the the realm of faith, of praying for inspiration, that's all great. Like God does answer that prayer, but he also says faith without works is dead. Like you

Matt Evans (26:31)
Right.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (26:32)
simply cannot just wait for the feeling to just ignite everything and then all of a sudden all this creativity comes out. So that's where I feel both this book and then the other book that pops into my head was The War of Art.

Where Stephen

Matt Evans (26:43)
Love it.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (26:44)
Pressfield calls it the resistance. And it's the same concepts, the enemy, whatever you want to call it. The fact is that God is very aware that there is an enemy that tries to keep you from moving in the path that you're supposed to move in in terms of your calling and your creative work.

Matt Evans (26:57)
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I when you were saying that I love the War of Art too. It it's so good. I love the way he

He treats it like a job. That resonates with me. I you know, I l I like the idea of being able to work. And also, you know, one thing that I've really come to appreciate is that the work is the whole deal. Like you know, one of the things that he quotes, and I'll misquote it, but I think it's from the Hindu scriptures, but basically you you you don't have a right to the fruits of your labors, you have a right to your labors. And that really lets you let go of you know, I don't have a right to be represented by a wonderful gallery.

in on Chelsea and you know in New York City and have people you know and I don't have a right for my book to be a bestseller, but I do have a right to do that work. and that and that work is its own own reward, you know, and that feeds me. So I I think that's great. And then you know, talking about in s waiting on inspiration, he quotes a Somerset mom, I think said, you know, I only write when then when I'm inspired or when the Muse strikes me, but happily the Muse strikes me every morning at nine AM So you just

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (28:03)
I love it.

Matt Evans (28:04)
gotta do it.

Over and over again.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (28:07)
there's

Matt Evans (28:07)
Mm-hmm.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (28:07)
that theme again where you just do the work, you leave the results to God and leave the results to whatever's gonna happen, but not waiting for this kind of proof or

guarantee of the results, but instead just staying like being faithful with it and being steadfast. So I love this. I want to come back to your callings as these three areas and just ask you in terms of that, do you feel now that you're doing all three? That there is a specific area that God or that your faith is kind of pulling you, is he pulling you in one direction where you have a certain dream

More for this, more for that. Or do you feel like they're all still connected in terms of the calling of being an artist, of being, I'm sorry, is again, I use that word artist.

You can be an artist even as a veterinarian. So so yeah, so I'm just curious whether

Matt Evans (28:52)
Right. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (28:56)
or not as you're continuing to work this out, and you said it so beautifully that these are all connected, but in terms of the specific goals you have. I mean, you're now releasing a book as we're recording this. So are there any

Matt Evans (29:03)
Mm. Right.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (29:06)
times that they feel like a little bit of that tension where, I gotta give

Matt Evans (29:08)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (29:08)
more attention to this one because this is one that's pulling me more at this moment.

Matt Evans (29:13)
Right. Yeah, yeah, I think at different times in your life different things demand more and t more attention. And you know, for for me frequently it's been the you know, the veterinary medicine that provides an income for my family. but as the book has been coming out, I I was thinking like, you know, I wanna take some time and really promote the book and then I was thinking about how to do that and so I what I'm doing is I'm gonna take the sabbatical from practicing as a horse vet. for the next at least six months, probably

year. but I I was thinking, well I'm gonna write a second book and I'm gonna you know I want to work on a screenplay and I want to travel and do stand up and I but one of the things I thought I would do would be to go just tell jokes at veterinary schools. because I have a lot of veterin and I was like that'll be fun. We'll have a good time. But as I started to research it and just through you know

Complete synchronicity is what Julia Cameron would call it. The hand of God is what we recognize it is. you know, was exposed to people that were talking, especially this one comic named Paul Ozencup. He he has a book that he put out, and also a podcast he does, and he talks about the power of humor in our lives. So I started to get exposed to that and I was like, I can go talk to veterinary students about the power of humor to overcome imposter syndrome. and so

That's what I'm gonna do for the next years. I'm booking out vet schools and I I'm not I don't wanna limit it even to veterinary schools. I think it's a message that students and young professionals of all kinds could stand to hear is how important humor can be to helping us as a tool to overcome imposter syndrome. It's not the only one, but it's something it we can put in our arsenal that's really powerful. So that's that's what I'm doing and so I definitely feel pushed that way now. And it you know, it it's just like everything on this journey, it's like

I don't even know where it came from. You know, it's just one like one step at a time, one door opens and leads to another thing, an opportunity, a new skill, and then and then you're going. And so that's the book comes out on September eighth and then I'm gonna speak at Texas A and on September fifteenth. And

I'm gonna speak at their big Rudder Theater. a contact there like, Let's go do it at Rudder Theater. I was like, I didn't think I was gonna be allowed on that stage. You know, they they let me graduate, but they were like, get on and get off as fast as possible. But they're gonna give it to me for an hour.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (31:37)
Yeah, you were not the head you were not you were not the headliner at that particular event and got it.

Matt Evans (31:44)
No, no, I was not but, you know, I I'm super excited. I think I think

You know, there's obviously some book promotion going on there. I don't want to sugarcoat it. Nobody's fooled by that. And that was the original idea, but I'm very excited to to help shape you know an entire group of veterinary students, how they see our profession, how they see our world. Give them a tool they can use. I think I think some real good can come from that and that makes that makes my heart sing. You know, sometimes some you you do stuff and it just it feels like a a chord hit right, you know? It's like, yeah, that's that's true. You know, that resonates.

And this feels good that way.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (32:23)
Mm,

it's really speaks again to the creative side, that you're able to take all of your skills that again you're gifted with, this sense of humor, this ability to kind of see the world in a different way, and then apply it in a logical way to people who need it. And that's the definition of serving, right? Serving is where we take whatever God gives us and we put it together and it just goes to the right people at the right time. And it's just clearly a sign that you are walking in your calling, even though it seems like these

vastly different areas, somehow they are fitting. Like you said, it comes down exactly the way it's supposed to to reach the people

Matt Evans (32:58)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (32:59)
that's supposed to go to. So I want you to speak for a moment before we have to close out to the maybe they're the doctors, maybe they're the accountants, maybe they're the pharmacists of the world who have that artistic bent on the side and who feel like there's no way I can indulge this. There's no way that I can spend time painting, go go to that open mic.

I've got to again stay focused on my nine to five, on my corporate, on my left side of my brain. And just speak to them for a second because maybe even as they heard all this, I always think about the person that's listening or watching and like, yeah, easy for him, right? So talk to

Matt Evans (33:32)
Sure.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (33:35)
them about just what they might be missing out on. Maybe some little core lie they're believing or miss you know misunderstanding that they're allowing to keep them from indulging.

And and realizing what you realize, which is both of these things can coexist.

Matt Evans (33:53)
at the same time for sure. And I think the lie that people tell themselves is that creatives are a an entirely different kind of person. That's the lie I told myself about stand up comics, that that they weren't the same kind of people as us. and that that you have to be like chosen to be a creative person. I think we're all made to be creative and just finding out what what our interests are. You know, people talk about I I've had people say, you're so talented and it's like well all of this has come really

hard. I you know you should have seen my first painting, saw my first stand-up set. You would not have talented would not have been the word that jumped out of your head. But but if you're interested in something you can you can teach yourself to do it and you there's ways to learn to do it. And so I I would really encourage anybody that's like, I don't think I have time for that to pick up the artist way and start to work through it because you're gonna you're gonna find yourself on week two or three. You're gonna the next thing you know you might think you want to become a novelist.

But then the next thing you know you're like doodling and you like, I why am I doodling? Why am I drawing all of a sudden? And you're gonna head down that road and you may, you know, be a visual artist, or vice versa. but you know what a journey to go on. And I I think it opens up connections for you. You're you f I feel I I feel happier and healthier, and then you know, as always, the the people you meet along the way, that's the whole story. You know, that's that's the best part of it. I can't the people I would not have met if I had just

you know work my job and then come home and mowed my yard and I don't know what else I would have barbecued. I still find time to yell at my favorite football team on TV on Saturdays, just so you know.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (35:36)
That's that's important. Absolutely keeping all those things in balance. But yeah, I'm so

glad you said that to those people. Cause again, I am realizing now, even as I'm talking on this microphone podcasting now ten years, that my pivot was in my later life. I spent forty years just being a musician and that might say, well, you were a creative, but still it was one thing. It was the thing I was only supposed to do, but then all of a sudden this other area of writing a book.

And starting a podcast kind of just like you said, I don't I'm not definitely not good at it. I pray they don't look back at my first few episodes. Please don't

do that. Because again, it's

Matt Evans (36:10)
Please don't check him out.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (36:12)
it's the it's a it's a right, it's the it's a blank first draft, right? It's it's what

Matt Evans (36:16)
Uh-huh, for sure.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (36:17)
we know you have to start as a beginner, but I'm so glad you gave people that idea of in c overcoming that imposter syndrome, stepping out in that first step, trying it out and seeing you again, you don't have to divide yourself and throw away an entire l part of your life.

that might be what God also called you to do because as you're so well putting, it all blends together where your humor and your creativity are actually helping people in the profession that you're also called to. So this has been amazing, Matt. I wanna make sure that

Matt Evans (36:44)
Yeah. Thanks.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (36:45)
they are already going to your website. I believe it's Matt Evanscomic dot com.

Matt Evans (36:51)
That's right, yeah, for sure. Yeah, they can go there

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (36:53)
And just

Matt Evans (36:54)
and then yeah, there'll be links there to the book if they wanna I don't know if everybody just wants to buy like three or four copies pre order, you know, a piece.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (37:03)
Please, yeah. I'm and and by

the way, I know we didn't talk about the bo I know make sure the links are in the show notes, but I didn't talk about the book at all. So does the book basically tell some of the story that you've just told us was just even more of a of a of the the the life and the b and the stories behind what you did?

Matt Evans (37:19)
Yeah, that's that's the thrust of it. I just started writing essays, but they came together and it's a story of overcoming imposter syndrome. It's a fish out of water story. It's all creatures great and small, but it's told written by a stand up comic, and so it's all creatures great and small meet scrub. So it's jam packed full of jokes, you'll laugh your way through it, but also, you know, you'll get to go on that journey with me and hopefully be inspired. That y you know

People w will sometimes ask like what did I why did I wanna write it? And I can't even remember why I wanted to write it, but w what I want people to get out of it now is that I would love for people to read that book and be inspired to do something they're not supposed to do. To like, Well if

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (37:56)
Mm.

Matt Evans (37:57)
this kid can become a home horse become a horse fed, I can become a whatever. An accountant if they wanna be. Whatever it is you wanna be, go do it.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (38:05)
so well said, and that's why we need more work like yours. We need more people like you out here just showing that hey, you follow your passion, you follow your dreams, you give it a go, and again, you put in the work and let God handle the results. And He's done an amazing work in your life. So thank you so much for sharing your story, Matt. I have been

Matt Evans (38:23)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (38:23)
this man again. I'll I'll get to go and brag it to everyone that you didn't talk to a horse doctor today, and you definitely didn't talk to a horse doctor

Matt Evans (38:29)
Ha ha ha.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (38:30)
who's also a comedian and a visual artist. So this has been an absolute blessing. So thank you so much.

Matt Evans (38:35)
Yeah,

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (38:35)
much for being a part of the

Matt Evans (38:35)
thanks. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (38:37)
God Gig Show.

Matt Evans (38:38)
Yeah, I love it. I've had a great time. Thanks for having me.