Turn Your Fear and Insecurity Into Fruitful Obedience | Mark Osborne, Podcaster

Mark (00:00)
my 40 year marriage, it almost blew up because I started getting DMs from people that I shouldn't have been entertaining, you know?

And the enemy was putting lies in my head. This person cares more about you than blah, blah. I wasn't, I wasn't being the man I should have been.

The pastor that I was under when this thing started, when

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mark (00:23)
I started to fall, my marriage was about to blow up. He's the one that's like, you need to get your life right with Christ. You want to save your marriage, this is the way to do it.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:37)
Ladies and gentlemen, it is not often that I get to talk with a fellow brother in Christ who knows exactly what it's like to walk through a season and come out on the other side as pure gold. But that's what I feel I have in my friend right now. So please help me welcome Mark

Osborne to the God in the Gig Show. How are you, my friend?

Mark (00:57)
I'm fantastic Alan, thanks for having me on.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:59)
Man, I am so looking forward to this. I appreciate you accepting the invitation and I appreciate you already, like as we were just talking before we started recording, being so humble and gracious to say, hey, I want to make sure that I'm the right guy for the job. You are the right guy for the job for this episode. I want to put that even on the recording, man, because people are going to really be inspired by what you're going to share. Usually I start these episodes with the hardest question of all, which people try to do, you know, that 30 second elevator pitch, which always feels kind of awkward.

So I try to change it up a little bit. So when people are meeting you for the first time, let's say it's at church, at coffee, wherever, and they're just meeting Mark the man, not Mark the podcaster, not Mark the YouTuber, not any of those other things, not even in your job responsibilities, right? They just want to know about you. What are the first couple of things that you want people to know about you, the man, when they first meet you?

Mark (01:52)
my name is Mark Osborne. I'm a grandfather father. I'm a father of two. I'm a grandfather of almost four. I'll have my fourth one in August and I'm a, I'm a husband of almost 40 years at this point. you know, and I, I serve in my church. I'm a machinist. My, my favorite thing is to help men in my church. They come to me with questions. I'm a men's director at my church. So they come to me.

with questions, say I'm struggling with this thing and I don't always have the answer but it helps me dive into the Bible to try to help find an answer for them. So really that's who I am and the heart of what I believe in.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (02:32)
That's beautiful, the way that you started it right away with father and grandfather and it starts with the family, right? That's what I really love about

Mark (02:39)
Amen.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (02:40)
asking that question because the first thing that pops into your head usually is the thing, the Bible talks about that right out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. So talk a little bit about that first couple of things you mentioned about being a father, about having a marriage of over 40 years. That has to be.

first in your heart because it came out first, but maybe it didn't start that way. Have you always had the bent, the DNA of being a father when you were growing up as a young man? Was that like your dream to say, hey, I wanna have a great family, I wanna have a big family? Or was it something that kind of came across over time? Because a lot of us guys, we start off maybe not thinking of fatherhood and family as being the most important thing.

Mark (03:25)
It didn't exactly come out right over time. my I don't want to get into a whole lot of history, but my father

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (03:31)
Yes, sir.

Mark (03:32)
before before he became a preacher, he was an alcoholic. So I saw kind of two sides. And my father had this, you know, when people when people come to know the Lord, sometimes it takes time for them to completely to turn around. My father

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (03:47)
Yes.

Mark (03:48)
was overnight. The next day, like I woke up, he's reading the book after he gave his life to the Lord.

I woke up, he's reading the Bible. He threw out all of his alcohol.

He called me over and gave me a big hug. It was like a different man. So I would say, you I don't know if I really had that mentality at that time, but what I saw my father become is what I wanted to be as a father. So, you know, when I had my first daughter, I knew I wasn't great at this.

We'll get into that story. But I knew I at least had to stay in church. I had to stay connected to God in some way. So I served in ministry for 40 years just because my purpose, because I had two daughters, was to show my daughters what a godly man looks like. Even though we can get into that, I wasn't that godly for 40 plus years. I was that.

Christian that did all the things in the name of Jesus but didn't really know him.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (04:56)
Yeah.

Mark (04:56)
You know, so yeah, to answer your question, I always wanted to be a good father. I wanted my daughters to see what a godly man looks like so when they became older and they went searching for husbands, they would look for somebody who was godly.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (05:13)
That's beautiful. number one, what an incredible transformation that you saw that God can change someone overnight. And

Mark (05:21)
Amen.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (05:22)
your dad, what a beautiful testimony you have and example of saying, hey, yes, you can fall and then rise back up if you make the right decisions, if you follow God and turn your life around. And the things that we do, and again, I'm trying not to address this only to the men, but I immediately feel this affinity where we should be sharing from our own experience as men.

that this road to biblical manhood is not easy. And I feel like you and I both, again, I'm trying to be very honest about my story. I don't share a lot of my books about my personal story because sometimes it does feel like it's not, I want to say that we try to hide it, but it almost feels like it's hard to explain.

what that's like to go through a season of testing, a season of where you're not being the man that God calls you to be, and you don't even understand how to get there. So talk a little bit, as you just mentioned, other men come to you, what were some of the specific struggles that you had and that you have started to figure out about what biblical manhood even is?

Mark (06:30)
Lot of the struggles I had I'm still dealing with today I recently just put out a podcast about how I never wanted this to be about me Because

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (06:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mark (06:39)
I had that time in my life, you know where I almost failed where God brought me back is I started a fitness journey at 48 years old because I was I'm a short guy I'm 5'3 I was 205 pounds I

had had a mild heart attack six months before I started this fitness journey

On my 48th birthday, I drove past a gym that was just opening up. They had a promotion and I was like, oh, this, this is the thing. This is going to be my new purpose because I became an empty nester at 48. I got married young, became an empty nest or at 48. So my purpose of being this father showing the godly example at 48, which is still very young. It, I didn't know what my next purpose was. So I drove past this gym.

Went in and joined a gym and I posted my membership card on Facebook. I got so many comments. I would post things here and there on Facebook. Even, you know, I share a song that I'd sing and get a few comments and likes. But this membership card, everybody was like, what an amazing journey. You know, I'm so inspired. Share your journey so you can inspire us. My ego just ate that up because I spent my whole life kind of in the shadows.

because I never, had a little self-esteem, never really felt like it was much. Being a short kid and shy, I got bullied a lot, you know? My ego is just eating all that up. And as time, so I mentioned my 40 year marriage, that was five years ago. That journey went on for a while, but five years ago, it almost blew up because time went on and I started getting DMs from people that I shouldn't have been entertaining, you know?

And the enemy was putting lies in my head. This person cares more about you than blah, blah. I wasn't, I wasn't being the man I should have been. So when I, when I felt like God told me it was time to start a podcast, I was like, how can I be in front of people in front of a mic again? And you know, as a creator yourself, it, you have to be very intentional with how people respond to you.

You know, they say, Hey, that was a good thing you said. I don't ever want that to be part of this podcast. want this podcast to be all about God.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (09:06)
I think you nailed it when you talked about having a purpose, going out and pursuing that purpose, but then with the purpose and with the message comes the temptations of actually falling off the original purpose. You going to be more healthy, right? If I can kind of like, you know, summarize it the way I heard it, was a godly, it was taking care of your health, being a good, better man, being a better, you know, right?

Mark (09:31)
Absolutely, yes.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (09:32)
You're an empty nester, you're gonna take care of your health. That's great.

That's what men should do. That's what fathers should do. That's what all of us as you know, it's the temple, the Holy Spirit is our body. So take care of the temple. However, you just mentioned that the social media part brought temptations that challenge, it could have even ended or messed up your first marriage, your first ministry, which is your marriage, right? That's the most

Mark (09:52)
Right, right.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (09:53)
important thing, not showing up on social media

and promoting this message. Cause we always see these sad stories. I'm not going to bring anybody else into judgment, but we see the sad stories all the time, unfortunately in church of

ministers preachers all these leaders falling right because their public testimony doesn't Matt doesn't match your private life So

Mark (10:13)
Exactly.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (10:13)
I'm I I appreciate you being transparent about that and I want to ask you What has been the thing that helps you stay? focused on what you just talked about God's message and the people and not the ego of Followers not the ego of likes. Is there a specific thing you're doing that's helping you?

keep that part away and make sure you focus on your marriage and your message and not the social media stuff.

Mark (10:40)
It's staying grounded in the word for sure. when you, so when I talked about how I spent those 40 years not being connected to Christ, I would go to church. I would pray once in a while. I would read my Bible once in a while. And the funny thing is the disciplines that I learned through fitness, I started applying them to spiritual things

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (11:02)
Hmm.

Mark (11:03)
and it helped me develop my relationship with Christ. So

Once I started, I would get up whenever, you know, last minute, get to work, rush to work before all that happened. Once I started the fitness journey and I had that accountability piece that everybody's watching me now, I started getting up every day, going to the gym. I would post my gym times, the usual stuff. So I had this discipline. Now I get up early in the morning. I was like, all right, well, if I'm going to really have a relationship with God, I need to put him first. So before going to the gym,

I would spend time in the Bible. And then it was interesting how God worked this out because I still am a disciplined person. I still go to the gym, but I don't go every day now. I go two to three times a week. And what would happen is I would start reading something and I'd get interested. I want to dive a little deeper into this and I'd find myself in a study. Before I knew it, I couldn't make it to the gym. I didn't have time. I had to go to work.

So to answer your question, I think it's really staying rooted and connected to God. And for sure, know, never make it about me. I always put my wife first, all of my schedules, you know, I'm going to do a podcast on this day. Do we got anything going on? A

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (12:26)
Yeah.

Mark (12:26)
guy, you know, guy just scheduled, can we make this happen? Or I'm going to do this on this day for podcasting. I'm going to make sure it's not interrupting anything in our family life.

To me, that's how you stay grounded and connected and keep it Christ-centered.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (12:43)
now I want to ask a little bit about

a couple of these other pivot points in your life. You mentioned your fitness was a pivot point. Were there any other things that hit you? Because I think it's very honest, again, very transparent. We're talking, both of us in our 40s and 50s to midlife, that kind of, I guess you could call it midlife crisis. I've always hated that term, but I'm wondering

Mark (13:05)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (13:06)
were there ever any other situations where God kind of helped you navigate

you know, a pivot point where you said first was emptiness and it was fitness. Were there any other moments that God kind of used something that could have been a crisis to kind of steer you back into the right path?

Mark (13:27)
Well, I don't know how many you know when you get when you get into fitness you start getting into personal development

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (13:34)
Okay.

Mark (13:35)
They just kind of seem to go hand-in-hand. So I started listening to podcast podcast is like where you find out all your information and any fitness podcast you listen to they're gonna get into the self-development thing so I I'm like trying to become a fitness person trying to start a fitness business on Instagram. So I got to get on the microphone to talk

I was very uncomfortable. I wasn't really doing podcasting, but I would go on my Instagram stories, talk about nutrition plans and what it takes, mindset, all that kind of stuff. And I didn't realize it at the time until later when I started podcasting. A lot of the stuff that I was learning, I actually did a whole thing on YouTube where I showed how all these personal development things, again, I don't like that term, personal development.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (14:26)
Yeah.

Mark (14:27)
I like to call it Christ-centered development

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (14:29)
I like that better too.

Were there any people in your life? Was it the men in your church? Was it a pastor? Was it other people who maybe even the creative space like the YouTube people or somebody that you kind of started to follow and say hey let me try to

used that example, were the people like that in your life that were helping you to find that balance and to find that way to actually move forward.

Mark (14:52)
For sure. The pastor that I was under when this thing started, when

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (14:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mark (14:59)
I started to fall, my marriage was about to blow up. He came underneath and started to guide me. He's the one that's like, you need to get your life right with Christ. You want to save your marriage, this is the way to do it. Get your life Christ. Put Christ first. And if you listen to my podcast, I have a little intro with a voiceover.

That's my pastor. Yeah. Yeah. He's...

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (15:23)
Oh wow, that's cool. That's super cool.

So he gets to be a part of it. His voice that helped you at your, one of your worst times is also the voice that is bringing people into your show. That is super cool.

So You have a full-time job, you've got your podcast, but you started, first we'll talk about your.

being a father and grandfather and a husband, then you went to talking about local men's ministry, right? And people coming to you. So talk about that calling. Why is men's ministry in your local church important to you?

Mark (15:58)
Because community is so important. You know, it's what I mentioned earlier about that you are the essence of the five people you hang around the most. You aren't the essence of the five people you listen to on social media. You're

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (16:09)
That's good.

Mark (16:09)
the essence of the people who are actually in your life that you meet on a day to day basis or a few times a week. Now, before all of that happened in my marriage, I almost blew up at 35 years. We stayed in church. I may not have been close to God, but I had that community to keep me grounded.

There were times during that 40 year wilderness journey where I would start to stray. And even though I wasn't connected to God, I had people that be like, you're going a little too far off the path. Come back. You don't really necessarily have that on social media. You do have it in real life in person. Jesus modeled the church when he put the 12 met the 12 disciples together.

People ask me, know, I got married in 19. Like I said, I'm going to, I'm going to be married 40 years this coming June, June 26th. And they're like, it's so rare for somebody as young as you got married so young to still be together. What's your secret? It's not a secret. You just, you just stay in church because church will keep you grounded. Obviously, you know, there's a lot more you can do as a man.

to learn how to lead and guide and do the right things appropriately by reading his word and staying connected to him. Church is

the root of all.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (17:38)
Yeah, I love the way you said that and I couldn't testify the same that.

me and my wife getting married super early as well. think I was, she might've been 20, I think I was 21, 22. And the same thing, realizing that we didn't know what we were getting into, having our kids young and just having that community of believers. Again, it doesn't mean it's perfect. I want to make sure I made that caveat. I think a lot of the reason why the popular culture keeps throwing the church under the bus is because they expect it to be this perfect place. And it's not, it's an imperfect place.

God and Jesus knew that this was the best way to have his kingdom operate and to build the people, which was to make them, as I'm sure you heard the verse, iron sharpened iron, you have to be in contact and that creates friction and that creates problems.

Mark (18:29)
Yep.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (18:30)
And that is part of the process. That is how we learn to love. And so the fact that you were willing to stay there, even when you weren't, like you said, following maybe as closely.

but the principles were still around you. You were still surrounded by people. And so

Mark (18:42)
Absolutely.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (18:44)
I love the fact that we're like focusing on the church not being just this, know, one size fits all fixes them all your problems. And you just get in, you were facing some of these problems while you were in the church, but then these say the same problems that you found in church. Also the solution was in church. So I love this so much. I want to talk a little bit about your journey as a podcaster and as a content creator. Cause once again, this is something that I can guess you didn't grow up saying, Hey,

When I grew up, want to start a podcast when I grew up. I want to start a YouTube channel. So talk about a little about the first, I don't know, the steps that you did. Was it a dream? Was it something that's like, Oh, I need to start a YouTube. What was the actual genesis of starting the podcast and deciding to share the message publicly outside of the fitness stuff?

Mark (19:29)
as time went on God just started putting more and more people in my life. That would help me. I There's there's a guy on YouTube. He's not a podcaster per se but he's he's an 80 Well, I think he's 82 now, but when I met him, I just found him on a YouTube channel

He started his YouTube as like, I'm 80 years old and I'm starting a YouTube channel and it went viral. And I just started following him, to find out he's a pastor himself in California. He pastors a senior congregation and I message him and talk to him all the time. I've had him on my podcast and he's always sending me insights. He has a smaller channel for his church. I listened to every one of his sermons.

because he's such a great teacher and I get so much insight and I'll message him and be like, hey, that was really good. How did you come up? How did you learn this? You know, what's your wisdom on this? All the time I'm messaging him and texting him and there's multiple people on social media that, you know, I message privately if I feel like they got in it and you have to use discernment with that because you never know. You don't use people.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (20:39)
Yeah, yeah.

Mark (20:41)
You don't know people in person, but

It's really, it's amazing how God has brought people into my life to help me.

As far as starting the podcast, I never wanted to be up front in front of people.

I never really liked doing that. had one sermon I had to preach once at a youth event.

the preparation probably took me two or three days, but getting it all out there because I was sweating. was saying all I was. I did a whole thing on the book of on Gideon story. And I kept saying the Book of Gideon instead of the Book of Judges because I was so I was so nervous.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (21:21)
that

was, guess, your first steps where people were kind of pushing you out to the front and say, hey, you have something to share. So yeah, continue in terms of how did that evolve into doing the podcast.

Mark (21:31)
it was like right around COVID time.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (21:33)
Okay.

Mark (21:34)
and our worship leader at our church stepped down.

And my pastor is like, I don't have another singer. I could get somebody in, but it's going to be a little while. Would you mind being the worship leader until I can find somebody? And I was like, I

It's one thing I didn't ever want to lead anybody and now you want me to help bring people into the presence of God? Just the name worship leader alone was intimidating. So I already knew about podcasts. I knew you could learn stuff on podcasts. So I found a worship leader podcast. It's called Worship Ministry Training. And I listened, I did a whole deep dive. I binged his whole podcast.

and I've learned how to put some set lists together and stuff and I put one together and I wasn't sure how it was going to flow, how to flow from one key to the other. So I emailed what I thought then, he is a pretty huge podcast. Like he's in California and he was leading a church of over 10,000 members at the time. So I figured he probably had a team. Didn't know a lot about podcasters and how independent we actually are.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (22:46)
Yeah.

Mark (22:47)
So I emailed and I figured his team would respond if anything, if I got any response at all. He emails me back. He's like, this is my number. Let's jump on a FaceTime call. We could talk it out. So I was like, let's see what happens. I called him. There he was, the guy that I had been watching on a podcast for the last two months. And we became really good friends. He lives in California. He was doing a conference here in Chicago.

And he's like, I need a place to stay for the weekend. Do you know anybody? I'm like, well, I got a spare room. would it? So he ended up staying at my place. I helped him run his conference and I'm learning a lot about podcasting. Like I'm watching him, how he's handling his whole thing. And I'm running his booth while he's running a keynote talk. And I had mentioned earlier that I did this sermon on Gideon.

As I'm sitting there, I'm reading the Bible and I'm reading Judges 6 and I'm getting more and more and how it applies to men and identity and all this other stuff. And then I felt like I heard not an audible voice, but just the still small voice implanted in your head. You should start a podcast. Cause I had been looking for a podcast for Christian men specifically. There are a few out there, but

They just didn't have the vibe that I was looking for. So that's when it was like, you should start a podcast. I told my pastor about it, the one that I mentioned earlier, and he was like, I absolutely agree. I think you should start a podcast. By the way, I want to put together a men's conference for our church. Would you mind administrating that? So I put together a whole men's conference and he's like, I think you should speak at it.

So I did that same sermon, but with more stuff to it. The next week after that conference, there's a microphone coming to my house from Amazon with a note from my pastor saying, the podcast.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (24:58)
Wow.

Mark (24:59)
So that's kind how all this started. My first few podcasts, I'm fine with people going back and listening, but you could tell, like it was mostly audio. I'm mostly reading something that I typed up and you could tell that I was reading. But the name, the Valiant Forge, because Gideon was called a Valiant Warrior and he wanted to deny that identity. That's where the name the Valiant Forge comes from. Because we're all Valiant Warriors when God is with us.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (25:30)
Gosh, okay. This story has so many components that I think we could like spend the next like hour just unpacking how God used All these different areas of your life to bring this forward first Let's talk about the fact that you're worship leading serving in the local church as a worship Minister a worship musician, which again I am the same Don't want to be out front. Do I help with the back end? Yes, do I play and like obviously but don't put the mic in my hand to sing

Don't ask me to do a solo, like that's not my thing, right? I do what I do because I feel like God has graced me to help in the background. So I can feel that same spirit coming from you. So the fact that you first had the desire to get better, I love this and I wanna make sure we pin this. You sought out resources, you looked for a podcast to do this better when pastor asked you to be the worship leader and to kind of like, you know, set things up for the team. And now the second thing, which we just talked about community,

Social media worked in your favor in this case, not social media, but content and actually reaching out to somebody, the discernment to say, hey, this is someone that I like and that seems to have the right spirit. Let me reach out to them. And so the internet worked in your favor and God allowed that connection to build a whole nother thing that actually led you to have this new ministry connection with this worship leader. So both of those things kind of point to people, if you are willing,

to listen and take small steps of obedience. Would you say that's kind of like what this story felt like to you? Did it feel like small steps of obedience, being obedient to your pastor, being obedient to letting this man that you probably had never met into your house? Would that be kind of like the way you would qualify that the way that these steps became the Valiant Forge?

Mark (27:19)
Absolutely. Like five years ago, I never had thought about starting a podcast or even worship leading. was just going to continue being this server that I am in the church and step by step, God has led me. Like we've had it. We've had a, I've so far, I think we've had a great conversation. Five years ago, this, this would have been a very short podcast because I would have been giving you one word answers.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (27:49)
It teaches you so much about communication. It really opens up who you are. And I love how God uses these stories. And I think this is gonna be very, very encouraging to people who feel my story can't be used, my message can't be used, my problems, my mistakes can't become my ministry, right? They might feel like, you know, I don't have the millions of followers and all this kind of social media comparison that we go through. And they would be like Gideon, like you just mentioned this identity. They would...

Tell God I'm not the right guy. I'm not the right lady. I'm not the one that you should use because I don't have all of the qualifications. speak to that a little bit. Let's just encourage somebody that's listening who is where you were. They are either just hiding in church, not quite connected, or maybe they're being pushed by the pastor or someone else to say, hey, you should start this, but they keep telling themselves. So tell them what you tell other people who are struggling with the identity of

God can't use me, use my story, use my message.

Mark (28:52)
Yeah. Well, I'm going to be, I'm going to be 59 just in a few days from now. And usually, so a lot of my excuses when, and I'm just being honest, I had a lot of excuses when I was told to start a podcast on why I shouldn't. The same as Gideon gave, got a lot of excuses and he went through this hole. Well, this to me. If you really got prove this, know, Gideon, we, I got to get too far into it, but Gideon gave all these fleeces.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (29:21)
Yeah.

Mark (29:22)
and

got proved himself every time. And what says the angel of the Lord came to Gideon? That was a Christophany. That was Jesus Christ. So it wasn't just a regular old angel. It was Jesus Christ. So when Jesus Christ comes to you and says to start something.

Most of the time you're going to see confirmations. You just have to be looking for them. You may ask him to, you know, you may put some kind of a fleece before him and you that fleece may not happen, but if you are open to what is going on in your life, everything that's happened in my life from the day I got saved to now, I can look back at each piece of that journey.

and see how God was in it even when it looked like God wasn't in it the day that I went to my school and told all the kids about Jesus and they pushed back told me I was one of those weird Bible thumpers and that made me shrink back and never stand up front that was all God forming the identity that I have now because I may I may have been I don't

hesitant to say this because I may have been prideful more prideful about doing this now if I hadn't had that happen to me in my life so what I would say to anybody who feels like God is calling them to do something

First of all, it's not about you. It's about God. But God gives each one of us a gift inside of us to whatever we do, whatever our creativity is. It is to speak, sing, write songs, just motivational speak, whatever it is. God has given each one of us an audience because he wants us to go out and make disciples. In order to

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (31:20)
Exactly.

Mark (31:20)
do that, you have to

step out. What Gideon had to do because God said, you know, I am with you. Gideon's first step, we were talking about a small X of obedience. Gideon's first step was in the middle of the night so no one could see him because he was hiding. He wasn't super courageous in the beginning. He went and tore down the idol. After that first step, everybody knew. And we talk about identity.

Gideon's name changed. think it was Jerubbel, something like that. But his whole identity changed just from making that one step because he knew the Lord would be with him. So while I always say to anybody who's hesitant about starting something that they feel like they're supposed to start, take that first step and remember that the Lord is with you.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (32:20)
Absolutely so, so impactful because the Lord being with you then means all those next steps of obedience that the Lord has already ordered them. And it's such a beautiful thing that you are walking out. I love the fact that you are walking it out, not just talking about it. I'll just, usually I try not to go and date this podcast, but even this morning, my verse that I read was that the kingdom of God is not a word.

but of power. When Paul was talking in 1 Corinthians about, we're not just showing up here with these flowery words. We are doing what we say we will do. And we follow through and that the power is in the doing and how you are following through what God has put in your heart, not allowing those mistakes and missteps and stumbles that we all fall through as men, as women of God. When he says that, you we fall seven times, but we get back up.

Right? That is what you have done and now you're standing tall with God. And I just really appreciate your heart for what you're doing, Mark. This has absolutely been a blessing. I know people are gonna wanna find your podcast. They could have already easily clicked the link in the show notes, but we're gonna do it old school as well. So tell them what's the best way that they can connect with you. How would you like them to continue to connect with your message, your podcast, and your ministry?

Mark (33:46)
You go on thevaluantforge.com and it's a pod page so all the platforms are on the pod page website and if you want to follow me on YouTube just look up the Valiant Forge once in a while I do stuff on YouTube that's not related to the podcast.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (34:04)
Yeah, I've already subscribed and we'll make sure all of our God in gigs audience is connecting with you as well inside our membership, inside our community, everywhere we want to connect with people who are authentically trying to become the creators that God created them to be. And that's exactly what you've done, my friend. So thank you so much for being on the God in gigs show. I hope this is not the last time.

Mark (34:25)
Amen. Thank you for having me.