Is Your Work Protected? The Legal Essentials Every Creator Must Know w/ Amy Oraefo, Attorney

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (00:00)
If you're a creator who immediately feels tense the second someone mentions

lawyer, contract, or

you're not alone. Most of us have never sat across from a lawyer to talk about rights or positioning, and

always feel like it is so above our budget and understanding. So we'll

deals in a moment, praying we make the right call, which could actually cost you so much more than the amount you were afraid to invest.

But what if you could talk to someone who's in your corner, who actually understands what it means to be a creator, someone who understands what a career art, music, podcasting, or content creation really is about, not just talent, but

Today I'm talking with Amy Oraefo a lawyer, creator advocate, and trained dancer who made the conscious choice to work on the business side of the creative world, specifically to help people like us to get equipped before the big opportunity shows up. Amy is so passionate about this that she's taken time away from working with multimillion dollar brands to give emerging creators like us the exact strategies that she's seen work.

episode will make the legal strategies that seemed above your head truly make sense. You'll understand what critical moves look like when deals are actually on the table and how you can start building the right foundation for your creative brand right now.

If you're new to the podcast, thank you so much for joining us. My name is Allen C. Paul, and this is The God and Gigs Show, where we help you to become the creator that you were created to be.

And

the end of this episode, you'll understand what it actually means to protect your creative work and why having sound judgment about opportunities isn't just a business

It's a spiritual responsibility.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (01:51)
as with the greatest pleasure, I would love to welcome Amy Oraefo to the God and Gigs show. How are you, my friend?

Amy Oraefo (01:59)
I'm doing well, Allen What an intro. Can I take you everywhere I go, please? With that intro.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I know we were talking on and offline. We're about to have some fun because that's important. Whatever you do, make sure you're not just doing it, but doing it and have fun. So we're about to do that here, right?

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (02:04)
Yes, wherever you need me to go, you let me know.

Look, that's exactly what we're about to do. So this is for me, questioning a lawyer feels very intimidating.

Amy Oraefo (02:27)
Please don't.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (02:27)
but I'm gonna try to do this correctly, okay?

So if you object, please object. So for people who are meeting you for the first time, maybe they haven't read the bio, maybe they just found this episode and they just clicked on it they don't really know what you're about, but they also would love to know about you the person. If you're meeting someone in the coffee shop, meeting somebody, you know, in your personal life.

and they just want to know, tell me a little bit about you. What are those first couple of things that you'd like people to know about you on part first meeting?

Amy Oraefo (02:58)
and foremost, Allen, I am a child of God. And I promised God that if you gave me a platform of one or a platform of a hundred thousand, that's not the time to hide who I am. So that shows up in who I am first and foremost.

I'm a child of immigrants, first generation American. my parents are from Nigeria, so I'm Nigerian.

And a creative, I'm a creative and that's important because just because I'm on the business side of the entertainment industry, what people forget sometimes.

Well, not everybody, I'll speak for my journey. I am a creative. Like I entered into this entertainment space, not because of a hobby or fads, it was because I was a trained dancer who did not pursue it professionally. So I was like, I have to work around my creatives. So that is my selfless, yet selfish way of still being in the sphere and serving my creatives is about service. So I'm a creative who happens to be a lawyer and I hope and pray that shows up in everything I do. And I'm fully committed to what I do.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (03:54)
I love this and I definitely want to hear about the creator side of you because most of us have that origin story where there's music, dance, drama, theater, whatever we fall in love with it, with the creative space. Usually it's at an early age. So I am curious about like, what was that spark that brought you into dancing? And I guess this is a part two, which I'm not supposed to do, but on the edge of that.

⁓ why didn't you pursue it all the way? Was there a reason that you said, I love this and I'm still going to call myself a creative and a dancer, but maybe not to this area, to this point.

Amy Oraefo (04:30)
I love that question. So I started dancing at six and I am the youngest of five children. So that's important because to know if you all, anybody listening to this, if you're the youngest child or you have,

a younger sibling, what I'm about to say rings true. We love and respect our elders and our siblings, but we want to carve out our own space of our own. that's a big thing for lot of youngest children, whether we say it or not. So that came for me, which is having my own individuality. And my family was amazing with that. But ⁓ I grew up in a house of music. Like I didn't have the gift of singing or writing music. So the closest that I could come to my expression was dance. So music.

Like dance was my way of expressing my love for music. ⁓ So that started at six, but I grew up as long as I can remember. My parents would play Felakuti records, like Pieces of Home from Nigeria, King Sunny Ade. They would play, they had an eclectic ear. Then they would play Jimmy Cliff and Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson and ABBA

what I love about that is ⁓ it shaped my palette for creativity. I'm not married to one sound or genre. So that love of music made me love like, how can I express the art? And it was through dance. I just love the expression of how I would see some of the earliest dancers, ⁓ especially ⁓ African-American dancers. I would see Alvin Ailey and I was like, I wanna do that.

So I went to, parents always made sure and to know education is important in our community, but to know Nigerians education is like a thing. Right? So they were like, you're going to go to good schools and in there was fused with the arts. So I always went to like magnet schools and talented schools where we had arts programs.

And I did that for 16 years. The reason I stopped ⁓ was I didn't get into the dance programs I tried out for.

at 18, I was crushed because remember I had this dream, I wanted to dance for Ailey or I wanted to travel the world and dance. And I had some friends who would literally, they saw the world for the period of time they danced. So with the China, Singapore, they were various places throughout the world. And I was like, ah, but what do do when somebody is doing something and you still be happy for them? I was like, how can I stay in this ecosystem? And I'd always heard being the youngest of five kids, hey, whatever the...

characteristics of a lawyer are, you're a little bossy or whatever they say about us. It's not all the truth. you're a little, all honesty is advocacy. I was the child in school that was respectful, but still asked questions, Allen. If you asked my parents, if you polled them, they would be like, this one, she's respectful. So I would follow directions. I had no problem with authority. But if something inherently felt like an injustice, I'm going to be the one to say it, since I was a child.

So that, as I started learning new things, the people were like, that's advocacy, but you were hearing this as a kid, you don't know what that means. So I put that in the back of my mind when the dance thing didn't work. I was like, who do I want to represent? Who do I want to fight for? And it's my creatives. So that's a long-winded story to tell you how I became, it wasn't happenstance. I didn't do it. now I'm selfishly, that's why I said selfishly, I'm around my creatives because I understand them. I operate, I do business as a creative, but I also know how to monetize as a business person.

And that's why I'm so passionate about monetization, about brand protection, about leverage for creatives, because I know what it feels like to create, but I want them to impact more lives by monetizing.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (07:53)
So you just mentioned right there, that intersection, right, of business and creators and people trying to figure out how can they pursue their passion and their craft. you probably have seen so many creators start the journey, just like you talked about.

starting to enter into the creative space as professionals or wanting to be professionals.

what do you tell people when they are first starting out and they first are trying to get their feet wet in the creative industries? What are those first couple either obstacles or mistakes that you tell them to watch out for? Because I feel like they can have the wind taken out from under them even before they get started if they don't watch out for certain things when it comes to actually entering as a professional into the creative business.

Amy Oraefo (08:30)
Yes.

I love that question. And I'm not trying to be controversial. I'm just being real when I make this statement. I need for my creatives that are hearing this to understand that some people actually monetize off people's ignorance and difficulty in creating difficulties and obstacles. So we have to be very clear.

on who we're going into business with and not just using the words partnership. Now, granted, let's manage expectations as well. And I'm not saying this to sound elitist or condescending. is anybody new to anything that's gonna say, why don't I have this deal that this next person has? You don't know their story. You don't know what they've been through, right? It looks different. But when you're in a true partnership, it's just feel like that, right? It should feel like there's some give and take. There's some collaboration. So that's the first tip I will give any creative, any...

founder, any entrepreneur, anybody embarking upon a new venture, actually make sure you're entering a partnership. Allen, the signs are there a lot. We just are too eager as human beings. We are scared. We're operating in fear or scarcity, but the signs are there. Think about if we came here and I told you this deal is here, take it or leave it. Does that sound like a partnership to you?

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (09:34)
true.

Absolutely not.

Amy Oraefo (09:46)
That's what happens in a lot of these scenarios. So somebody's thinking like, if I don't take it, my whole life may be over. now I get it. There are some, some dire situations sometimes, but don't operate in scarcity and fear. You will always get that result in the outcome. This is not a decision that's going to impact you for six days or six weeks. Some decisions people make as creatives will impact them for the rest of their lives or for a long period of time. You don't make those decisions in a haste.

So it's going back for me, my process is whatever people's path is, but it's pray about it. Talk to people you respect. You can find somebody who's been down that course or that road or that deal that is open to share. A lot of times we're not asking questions so we can't get the answers to questions we don't ask, right? But asking people about that, asking somebody who's gone into business with that person before or that company, what has your experience been? That will reveal a lot, Alice. That is a tidbit of information. I don't know if a lot of people.

hear from other people, but start out practically. Ask questions, ask questions, ask and see if there are other people that have done business with that company or that person and then see what their experiences are. People generally speaking are gonna be candid about it and there you go. And then see if it's a real partnership before entering into it.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (10:59)
this is so good, because it does start with relationships. One of my immediate, I would say fears of being a creator was that I had to start with the jargon. I had to start with knowing all the ins and outs of contracts and things like that where I felt I didn't know the numbers and I didn't have never dealt on this scale, right? So I immediately assumed that I was going to be at a disadvantage. But what you're talking about is more people skills, more understanding and paying attention, which is, of course, something that all of us have. Obviously, we're talking to our fellow faith

Amy Oraefo (11:21)
dance.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (11:29)
focused creators, So discernment with the Holy Spirit and just being aware of what everything that glitters is in gold. Right. So I love that you went back to where people can actually do that. Now that being said, ⁓ your expertise in the legal system, in knowing what contracts and brands and IP all means

Amy Oraefo (11:29)
Yes.

Yes, absolutely.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (11:51)
is so invaluable.

So what are those couple of things that they do need to read up on? What are some, I guess, contracts or language that you're like, hey, I don't care if you hire whoever, you need to be aware of these terms when it comes to protecting your brand from the get-go.

Amy Oraefo (11:53)
Thanks.

Yep, absolutely.

Yes, I love that.

There are four types of intellectual property, you all. There are trademarks, copyrights, patent and trade secrets. I like to communicate that to people so it doesn't feel like it's an infinite amount of things you have to learn. Go know that there are four types.

Check your, I have to give a disclaimer, check your local jurisdiction on how it's protected. But I'm speaking to my US folks now. In the US, there are actual laws in place to protect us, you all. You go to copyright.gov, the US Library of Congress or the Copyright Office to protect that genius work, that song you've written, right? That script you've created, that book you've written. You go protect that with the Copyright Office. That's why I gave the disclaimer, somebody else in a different country, you go check your respective countries.

but the law is there to protect you. It can't protect you if you don't use it. So that's the first thing people to understand. Yes, when you create something instantly when it comes out of your head and this pen to paper or it's recorded such as this interview you have what's called a common law copyright. However, Allen, we want to go a step further for added protection and you go to the copyright office to file a federal copyright. So who do you think if you and I have a copyright dispute?

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (12:55)
Mmm.

Amy Oraefo (13:16)
Whose word is going to stand more? You went and filed at the copyright office or I had a common law copyright and said I did it first. Who's is going to go further?

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (13:24)
it's so obvious. But again, it's so funny that I still remember the people telling me to mail myself my song.

Amy Oraefo (13:29)
Yep.

I knew you were going to go there and what did they call it? The poor man's copyright. like, no, Thank you for bringing that up. I wasn't going to bring it up if you didn't, but now that we are, you all dispelled that myth. Go invest in yourself and go. I know it's an investment. Remember I said you separate the wheat from the chaff by the people who are going to invest in themselves. And you all, know.

Like money is a real thing that people need, but that is the difference. And people are going to put in investment means different things, money, time, resources, skills, but you have to be willing to do that because that separates people from where they are and from where they're going to the next level. So it's knowing and understanding. And another thing, Allen asking questions. I don't know everything. I know what I know, but as long as we have a breath in our lungs, we're learning. So I still ask questions. If I don't know something, I need somebody to say, why do you do that?

Could you explain this to me? And all you're doing is amassing and acquiring more knowledge. A lot of creatives get in rooms and act like they know things they don't know. Stop that. And you're entering into deals you're not privy to. And then you're coming back to lawyers to get you out. And I'm a transactional lawyer, you all. That's very important to say. I want to help you make money and monetize things. But when you get into a dispute, I have to call my litigator friends. So now you got to pay two lawyers and we don't want you to do that. So we want to keep you proactive by protecting your work.

protecting your intellectual property so I can help you license and make money. I want to help you do things like that. But it has to be somebody who's willing to ask questions and be, you may not be ready to build a team yet, but what does that look like? It's signing up for platforms.

Just go somewhere. Some people are sitting by themselves thinking they have to do things by themselves and you will not grow that way. Nobody grows alone. Nobody's an island.

I don't want to sound self-serving. Join Creative Passport. Join somewhere. Join, just go somewhere. God and giggles. Go Join a community. That's what we all need to know.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (15:17)
Giggles. Wait, I'm sorry.

I have to stop you because that was, I would definitely sign up for God in Giggles. I like Giggles because it is absolutely a place where you'll, that was good. I'm going to, I'm going to leave that one in because, because I, no, it's okay. No, that was, that's okay. I love it. I want, no, I, I am absolutely,

Amy Oraefo (15:26)
Thank

I'm sorry, God of Gigs, I'm sorry. I was saying giggles. I don't know what I was thinking about. I like that we have a blooper. I God of Giggles, so God of Gigs, I'm sorry.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (15:45)
Look, the comedian's in the room. I literally...

Amy Oraefo (15:45)
love that, because when it tickles you, I was like, ⁓

I don't know what else to think about giggling. I think it's because were giggling. My bad. But I like that we have that. So I'm rectifying. See, you all, could be wrong, and we could keep this. No, right? God and gigs. Where did I get giggles from? Maybe because I'm having a good time and we're giggling. God and gigs. My bad. Like, why did I say giggles? That's funny. And I like that we're keeping this. We're allowing ourselves to be human, right? I love that. Because I saw you laughing. I was like, uh-oh, did I do something wrong?

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (15:50)
I just interviewed a comedian so now we have exactly

There we go!

I love it, absolutely. But I want to make sure.

I know the fact that it went over your head. I was like, I have to stop because that was good. But here's what I found from all that passion, all the fun is your passion about telling people.

that it's worth it. think that's the number one thing you would say to anyone that's like thinking, no, it's not an idea yet. I haven't really got it formed yet. And then there's other people who are afraid of people stealing it. So they don't do it at all because they're afraid someone's going to steal it instead of actually protecting it and saying, hey, yes, it might cost you a couple hundred dollars here or there. But the overall risk you're taking by not protecting it could be worth

Amy Oraefo (16:27)
It is.

Yep. Yep. Yes.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (16:53)
10, 100, 1000 times that if you just take those leap of faith and then put that small seed in the ground in terms of the money that it takes to invest. you mentioned, you know, starting out and really having a passion for advocacy. Clearly that does come from your first thing you say, which is being a child of God, wanting to honor Him, wanting to use His creative gifts. And I'm just wondering the being in law,

Amy Oraefo (17:01)
Yes.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (17:16)
got to be challenging to your values. You got to have seen some deals and some issues and things where you had to either shake your head or pray or like say, Lord, so let me know how does your faith impact both your personal decisions as a, know, running your business or running your firm and what you've advised other creators who may not share your values? How do you navigate that in terms of the way that, you know, faith leads you in your company?

Amy Oraefo (17:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

That is such an amazing question. I'd like to say I'm in it, but not of it, right? So meaning in the industry, in entertainment, but not of it. Some people think you have to do seedy things to progress. No, you could be a kind human being and be firm at the same time, right? You can be like two things can mutually exist at the same time, but be opposite and be a juxtaposition. I feel like I'm kind, but I have to be firm

Being like being a woman, being a black woman, being a child of God, just there, there's so many ways we can identify ourselves. And it's like, I'm not willing, I don't love money that much to lose my soul for it. I'm all right. But you know, like just knowing your, your quality, I'm just, I like money. We all do, but it's like not enough to like throw.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (18:12)
Sure.

That part.

Amy Oraefo (18:32)
My morals and scruples out the door. So that's no disrespect to anybody who feels like they have to do whatever. But my reality and my journey is such that I know God is my source and I hope and pray it shows up in the actions I take. because one thing, Allen, I finish what I start. That's a part of my brand. I'm a finisher. I'm a closer, I'm a whatever you call it. I'm not saying it sound arrogant. I'm saying it because that is.

We all have a brand whether people know it or not. either you're intentional about building it or you create one that you don't know people are saying, right? Like, so we all have a brand in some capacity. Mine is that I will help you get to the finish line in some capacity. I don't, I'm gonna call the right people to do. We're gonna figure this out. That's where community comes in.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (18:58)
We are.

Amy Oraefo (19:12)
if it's something that does not align on my core beliefs, if it's just like, yeah, I don't align with this or I'm starting to question some integrity, it won't happen again. I'm all right.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (19:17)
Yeah. ⁓

Amy Oraefo (19:23)
because you get one shot, it takes a lifetime to build trust and one moment to tear it down. And I refuse to do that for anything or anyone. So, and you're working with people who often have some notoriety or some credibility and there are very few people they can trust. I take that very seriously. So for me, for the people who are not afraid to bend the rules and do things in some capacity, no. What I'm doing privately, I could do openly. And I could say that that's how I run business. Poll anybody you work with. I operate with integrity.

Does that mean leaving some money on the table at times? Absolutely, I'm sure I've left a lot of money on the table, but God will provide other ways. I'm okay, I go to sleep very well at night. You know, so that's being honest.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (20:05)
That's

that's so powerful because The love of money is the root of all evil, but money is not the root of all evil And so the fact that you're able to put

Amy Oraefo (20:10)
Yes, it's not. That's why I gave that disclaimer. I we like to make money, all

of us. Yes, yes.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (20:16)
Yeah, I caught you. I caught it. I caught it. The Bible also says money answers all things. Right. But another

scripture that came to mind when you said that about finishing is the scripture that says let your yes be yes and your no be no. And integrity is your brand, and especially dealing with matters of justice and fairness and partnerships and agreements. It's so powerful that you're saying, especially

Amy Oraefo (20:28)
Yes, absolutely.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (20:41)
working with creators that there isn't a shortcut. That's what I'm hearing, that you cannot try to do this underhanded, well, I didn't know, or change these deals or change this particular thing. And I'll say this, and hopefully I'm not going too far, because you've seen way more contracts than I have.

Amy Oraefo (20:44)
Yeah, yes.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (20:58)
it's not because everybody does it this way that it makes it okay for you just because we think that the creators and the brands or some big label is a shady thing does not give us license to suddenly be shady ourselves, right?

Amy Oraefo (21:04)
There we go.

Yes. Absolutely. Yep.

Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head. And as you all just be proud of whatever decisions you make. Now I'm not saying every business decision is going to be your best one yet, but you'll get better, quicker and sharper as you continue to do it. It's like flexing a muscle as we work out, right? You're not as strong as you were 90 days ago. And a year later, you're going be much stronger. Same thing in business. The more like,

Allen, I know you've seen it and you know enough whether you're hiring a lawyer or you're hiring anybody else on your team, you're gonna now know it's a different conversation. You know how things are supposed to look. So now you literally have, is what somebody in my position wants to be with someone like you all, an advisor. Cause you got it. You're the expert at what you do. That's why I require people to have a level of, we're choosing each other, a level of expertise on the law firm side, because I'm here to advise you. I tell people, my clients, it is my opinion, your choice.

say that all the time because I'm trusting your expertise got you there for a reason. So it's like somebody who's not self-assured in their value and how they show up in this world and their star power and their creative genius or zoning genius, that's for you to go do the other work. And I'm not trying to sound insensitive. I'm just saying that this business will not help you do that. You have to do that work yourself. Wherever your source for us is Children of God is praying, it's fasting, it's whatever you're doing. And I do all of the above.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (22:07)
Good.

Amy Oraefo (22:31)
It's quiet time for me travels my happy place. spend a lot of time on airplanes. It's quiet. You hear my thoughts, like things like that. God is in the silence, like quiet our minds in the distraction and the noise and go do that thing that God's called you to do. When you challenge yourself like that, leave the details to him. Who's in the people, the money, the resources, just stop being scared.

And do it. That's the biggest thing I tell creatives. To get out of your seat, like you said, do it. Stop talking about what you're gonna do if somebody took your idea. Go do the thing. If you fail, fail fast. Fail and get up quickly and do something else.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (23:09)
I love that you already mentioned how failure Was your launching pattern to what you're doing now, which is helping creators to launch themselves and avoid failure and learn from the lessons. And this ⁓ perfectly segues into my next question,

I'm sure you dealt with some lows in your own situation as trying to defend people. I'm sure there's some cases maybe you lost or something like that. So there were some lows, but there also were, I'm sure I've seen the pictures, I've seen the billboards, I've seen Investfest, I've seen it. There are also some highs. So tell me a little bit about the lowest low and the highest high and the lessons that you took from it, both in your own personal life and maybe from some other people.

Amy Oraefo (23:37)
Yeah. Yeah.

I love sharing this part. I didn't love it when I was going through it, but I love it now. And I promised God I'll be transparent. So it was when I was building my law firm and I'm from Raleigh, North Carolina originally. So I moved to Atlanta almost 15 years ago. It's crazy. So I remember moving and I packed what I had in my car and I just, you know, and I need to say this because of the timing. I graduated from law school during the recession. So that was, you know, I know people are going through

tough time, so I want to speak to people to be like, I know what y'all are going through. People might see what they or think they see what they and know the story, see what they see and know the story. But we all come from somewhere, some kind of struggle. And life ebbs and flows, but I believe in use that time to build character. Now, y'all, I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just saying, builds character. So to answer your question, Allen, it was going and thank God for a supportive family.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (24:40)
Bye.

Amy Oraefo (24:45)
I moved with what I had to move to my oldest sister's house. Remember I told you I'm the youngest of five kids, four girls, one boy. And having that support when you're starting over, because when I came, it was when I came, you had to start all the way over. I mentioned the recession because it wasn't like people were hiring. So the very thing, God has a sense of humor. I always went to law school and was like, yeah, I don't want to start my own law firm. Guess what I did? I started my own law firm like a year out of law school. So I was at a low financially. I was starting over.

And I don't mind sharing this transparently because it was like, You know, you have your talks with God. I didn't go to law school to sit here and be broke. Now granted somebody be like, why didn't you work for a law firm? Yes, I had that option. It sounds crazy, but I know God didn't call me there and there's no disrespect. I have a lot of colleagues and friends who have gone on to thrive, our partners doing great things at law firms. That was not my calling. So I decided to start my own firm and that's what I did.

So that was a low. What is a high? A high is, I'm gonna say something that sounds like a politically correct answer, but it is the real answer. the high has been the journey, the transition, the ebbs and the flows. Now again, when I'm going through it, it hasn't been there. So from that moment, if I didn't take a shot to...

we bet on each other, like that's how I met and Earn Your Leisure. And I also made a decision in my head that I wanted to work with a certain type of client. And I always say this, they don't mind me saying this. When I met them, we were all like growing together. That's a client, for example. So it's being able, God has given a gift and a talent for me to able to identify talent. That's where the creatives that I came from. just, know it, I can't explain it. It's, I know when to like bet on somebody, right?

can't take credit, God gets the glory for that. It will come in a voice like, should follow this or you should see where this goes. And it'll be really quiet, something like that. And I'll be like, okay. So that's what I did with them and it just ⁓ has taken, with them and with other ventures I've had, I've gone all over the world. You being open could take you all over the world. So that has been the highs. My ability and willingness to be open and continue to trust in God,

My faith shows up every day as an entrepreneur. Cause you don't know, you love people, you work with them, but tomorrow they can decide to work with you, tomorrow they can decide not to work with you. But where's your faith? Me saying yes and being open has what, it's what led me to, you know, the clients that I'm working with to build a platform that, you know, by God's grace, I feel like it's going to touch tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of lives, right? Because there's a need for creatives to figure out how to protect their works and monetize it.

That's it. It's me not waiting for anybody, Ellen. It's creating it, putting my own time, money, resources. And this is why I'm challenging creatives to do. Again, you all, I'm not talking from a place of somebody who doesn't understand. I moved in with my sister when I started building my law firm. I know what it feels like. I want to lean in on this point. I know what it feels like to like be struggling, to figuring out, know God gave you a message and it's not manifesting itself. And I was still happy for others when they were excelling further.

What do you do in those moments when somebody has something you want? You know? You celebrate them and you trust in God.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (28:05)
Hmm

It's so powerful. I goodness. but I want to make sure you expound on this, which is about legacy

to pursue the dream that God had on the inside for them, whether it's creative, whether it's podcasting, whether it's whatever it is, you're helping them to see it, protect it, and then share it even more on a greater scale, right? Whether it's a hundred thousand, hundred followers or a hundred thousand or a million. So what is your personal legacy that you feel that you would love to see? And then what do you think?

Amy Oraefo (28:25)
Yes.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (28:38)
your legacy is for others. So in other words, when you help somebody, do you see the legacy for them? And then what's the personal kind of takeaway that you have that you want to see in terms of your work for Creative Passport?

Amy Oraefo (28:51)
I love that. ⁓ I would say my personal legacy is that this is a big thing for me, because I always felt like an underdog in some capacity coming up, just like I had all these thoughts that I would tell. And I was like, does anybody really understand? So making sure that people feel seen and heard at the bare bones. Ellen, that's first and foremost. I'm just doing it on my small group of people, my creatives. So now you can't boil the ocean. It's like, who can you grab? So sometimes the messaging can come through.

it's impacted through somebody who has a larger following or it's I'm saying it or it's somebody else, right? It's being creative about how the message reaches, but it needs to reach. So a lot of it is just encouraging people, lighting that fire. That is a gift. That's why I keep going back. Y'all tapping to your God-given gifts. I'm an encourager, right? That's one of the gifts of the spirit. Like whether I want to encourage people or not, I could be having a day of my own, but people won't know because God put a word in me to...

So doing that, even when things may or may not be going your way, operate in your gifts. So my legacy is to help people operate in their gifts. And I am grateful and blessed to say that I've seen that materialize and manifest themselves. That is more rewarding than I could explain. You don't see it with everybody, but I've seen it for a small group of people and you get addicted to it in a good way. Like in a way of like...

God gets the glory, pointing the glory back to him. I'm not that special, right? It's about us being vessels. Cause it reminds me that my legacy is that I operated in obedience to God as much as I could, right? Like as much as I know how to. That is that if people can leave and said that like, I know she loves the Lord and she does her work and she's a human, I'm allowing myself to be more human. Cause it doesn't mean you're perfect. So I can be kind of firm in those moments. can be, you know what I mean? Like I didn't allow myself to be human before. It was like,

You can show up, yes, I'm a child of God, but I'm allowed to be frustrated and angry about things at times. Yes, I'm doing this, something that has served me, I could pull myself out of it. Yes, I'll start this business still and finish it, but I may never have to work with that person again, right? You can do those things, right? But the legacy is that I am open and I challenge other people to operate in their gifts. And by God's grace, the next question that you asked is I want other people to go do the same thing, operate in your gifts.

and get off the bench and get in the game and do what God called you to do. That's what I want my legacy to be. I challenge people to operate in their greatness and do what they know that God told them to do. You don't have to tell me, you know what God whispers in your ear at night. You know what he's told you to do. Go do that thing. That's my legacy. That I shook them up and made them uncomfortable enough or I challenged them enough that they actually went and started his thing.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (31:42)
Okay. Well, you use the word advocate at the beginning. I don't have to tell you my sister in Christ that the Holy Spirit is an advocate and is the encourager. So clearly you're operating in all the fullness of what that word means as a, mean, it is so clear from everything you've shared and I know that we could not fit it into this interview. So I'm not going to try because I want people to connect with you. I am going to go ahead and make the

Amy Oraefo (31:43)
Okay.

Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so

Thank you.

Yes.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (32:12)
What you should probably never do which is make the offer of a partnership all online But if you ever want to connect God and gigs and creative passport in terms of people having dual citizenship Then I would love to do that because this is really what I believe Let's we're talking about with Yeah, we'll talk offline I know that's why I knew

Amy Oraefo (32:17)
Let's do it.

love this!

Look, we're getting a commitment on air. Nothing's tighter than this. We will talk offline because that's what is a community. Nobody does anything by themselves. No,

but what I'm saying is, hold me to it. You all are hearing it. Let's figure out how to make that work because I'm glad you said that. Even now, it's like, people can't work with you, they don't know it exists. This is how it starts. And I'm big about incentivizing things for people. Let's make money together.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (32:52)
Mm-hmm.

Amy Oraefo (32:55)
Like it's not like it's I've created this content for whether it's podcasters, it's different people. Not there's like a podcast deal monetization. I've done that. We started your we're creating more content, but what we have on creative passport dot co right now is you go on. I've actually created courses that people can purchase. And we've thought about price points. So Allen, they heard it here first. Let's commit to figuring out how we can get some of this in front of your community and make some money together.

I'm

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (33:21)
⁓ gosh,

and then all of us, right? The rising tide lifts all boats. And the Bible says this, let us spur each other onto good works. Let's encourage each other. So creators, you heard it from someone who is clearly an advocate for you in every area, not just the legal and the financial to protect it, but she is encouraging you in your spirit.

Amy Oraefo (33:26)
Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (33:43)
and in your creative capacity to reach for everything that God has put in you. And by the way, once again, she is about making sure that you can also make some money while you do it because the blessing of the Lord make it rich and he adds no sorrow to it. So my sister, we were gonna make sure all the links are in there. you've already mentioned it. I believe it's creativepassport.co.

Amy Oraefo (33:53)
Yes.

Yes, absolutely.

Yes.

Yes, .co you all. It's not a mistake if you see .co. Can I lean in to say this? This is important. Even the .co is there, leveraging things. I might be giving a little too much, but I want y'all to come in the community with us. It is domain names, genius that God gives you. Use a strategy. You can go and like purchase domain names. By the time God gave me that genius, somebody had a .com, but that's okay. We bought up some more domains.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (34:16)
Please.

Amy Oraefo (34:32)
So that is a strategy as well in business. So it is creativepassport.co. Some people feel like it's a dot coms like no, because somebody got to a dot com before, but you can still make money doing it other ways. So even tidbits like that, all join us in the community. Please join membership right now. We don't know how long we're gonna keep it open. We're keeping it open at least for the God and gigs community. We'll keep this open for the next month. Free membership. No excuse. You all join, join, join, join, So you join and then come in.

of the hosting monthly webinars. We already have some of that content live that I mentioned to you for purchase for sale. I promise you, I'm not saying it because I recorded it. I'm telling you all because these are strategies I've used in multimillion dollar deals. Literally. That's what I recorded in the videos. So please, and I'm serious, Allen, we'll talk offline about how to collaborate. I put my heart into this content that we have on and we're building, we're creating some more. So it's for the creatives that want to figure out how to get in deals. You may not have a lawyer yet, but I'm giving some insight.

on deals I've seen, six, seven, eight figure deals, right? Like bringing that in to this community. That is the insight, because I want you all to have a head start and to you to be able to excel so when that deal comes that can change your life, you're equipped.

Allen C. Paul - God And Gigs (35:43)
Now we're going to absolutely make sure that this is front and center in front of our community. We're to make sure that this podcast is shared and trust me, the legacy will continue. You already know this because you're living it, but I just want to reaffirm it. And thank you so much for what you're doing for creators, what you're doing for people like us who want to follow our values and not sacrifice our faith. Whenever we get into these rooms and share our gift. And most of all, I bless you as a fellow sister in Christ who once again, that dancer look, you

are dancing all the way to wherever God has you. It's still in your heart, it's still in your soul as a creator, as fellow creator. So thank you so much, Amy, for being a part of the God and Gigs Show. Hopefully this is not the last time.

Amy Oraefo (36:16)
Amen. ⁓

Absolutely. And I thank you for having me and God bless you what you're doing and keep on leaving the impact you're leaving. Cause I know you're doing some good stuff that we talked about. So keep on shining.