Bradley Rapier: How to Step In the Circle, Find The Groove and Transform Your Life

Bradley Rapier (00:00)
When I speak about groove, I am talking about the creation that surrounds us, the interaction I'm having with people and God's spirit. Like that is groove for me. That is the root of the groove. that initial groove that came from the beginning of time, that's why you know, math and rhythm and frequencies, everything came in existence that we are just thinking that we're so clever that we're discovering, you

know, that we're that we're discovering different ways that it is there, but it is one groove.

with with a zillion gazillion ex ways to connect to it

Allen C. Paul (00:29)
You just heard a portion of the inspiration you're about to receive from today's guest, Bradley Rapier, an Emmy nominated choreographer, speaker, and author who has been a pivotal figure in the world of dance. His journey took him from discovering street dance in Canada to working on some of the most popular movies, TV, and Broadway shows in history, including So You Think We Can Dance, Dancing with the Stars, La La Land, Hamilton, and Jersey Boys.

But what you won't see in his credits is the heart he has for his faith and his desire to help artists to find their place in the circle, even when they're still learning the steps. Plug in and listen to every word of this one so you can discover how your journey towards your creative purpose begins with being willing to step up.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (01:20)
Ladies and gentlemen, If you've been outside wondering how to step into the circles that God has called you to, well, you found the right interview because I have a man here, a guest who has been in so many amazing places and spaces as an artist, choreographer, author, speaker. But right now he's speaking directly to you. So Bradley Rapier, welcome to the God and Gig Show. How are you?

Bradley Rapier (01:43)
I'm great and just grateful to be here and thanks for welcoming onto your show.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (01:47)
And it is absolutely a pleasure because I've already gone down the rabbit hole for the last few days and weeks. Just so you know, I've been stalking you. following you through all of these things on your YouTube and learning about your book, I am a huge fanboy right now. But some people, meet you for the first time.

When they find one of these interviews. So what are the first few things you like to tell people upon first meeting when they meet you that may not have anything to do with your accomplishments, just who you are?

Bradley Rapier (02:15)
Yeah. well I'm a father, I'm a husband, I'm a son, I love people, I'm very driven by

welcoming people into spaces where they can step into all their design to be because I've watched in my life how important it is to hear people's stories, allow them the opportunity to express who they are in a atmosphere where there's room for the full story to come forth and the encouragement to lead to more discovery and then we both go on the journey together. So I I'm a I'm a people lover, I would say, in a in a very good way. and I desire people to because I

lived it myself to not feel like they're hiding, to not feel like they're always constantly proving. and so I would say I'm a encourager. I like to say three things often. I I'm a freestyle activator, I'm a groove orchestrator, and I'm a believer in the greater.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (03:12)
Okay. All right. You've already, I feel like there's already so many mic drops that are going to happen. And as I was just mentioning as I was reading your bio and looking into your story, it all started from the beginnings of your family and l growing up in Canada of all places, which may not people may people may not think of as the

Hip hop capital of the world or the dance capital of the world. Maybe I'm wrong, forgive me for anybody from Canada. But tell me a little bit about that beginnings of finding, I guess, your identity in things that made you light up. Was it at a early age that you found this or was it later on in life?

Bradley Rapier (03:47)
Well, basically I grew up more in an academic and athletic background and I had a lot of friends. growing up in Canada, a lot of winter sports, a lot of skiing, but it wasn't the dance atmosphere, not at all.

Where I grew up, I grew up in Canada. It's the only one that looked like me in my school, in my neighborhood, my family, the only ones with afros, you know. my sister though, she did go on a search. she wanted to find out who she was. So she was trying to find the soul, what that connection was to that.

And because of that search she was on, she kind of started me hearing introduced me to more of the soulful music. Because in Canada, I'd be hearing more rock and roll, country, pop, and even if there was a connection to any funk, it wasn't to the level of the states, right? I was wouldn't have access that way. And so through her, I started to hear more of that kind of music, The other aspect was my father. My father at one

Time at the second largest jazz collection in all of Canada. And yeah, so my parents, my father was the the first child psychiatrist in Western Canada of of color, and my mother was the first black beauty queen in all of Canada in 1949.

I actually was having a challenging time growing up. I

had my parents divorce, and it really s took me by surprise. Didn't expect it to come.

So I kind of grew up kind of a nervous, anxious kid, didn't know, didn't know who God was at that aspect of my life, didn't have that grounding in my life.

And at that time it was coming to a head where I was feeling lost the most out of seemingly nowhere. This gentleman came and showed me this dance. And it blew my mind. It was brand new at the time. And as a matter of fact, you said something in the beginning, Canada not being the place where hip-hop may have begun. So it definitely wasn't.

But and actually before hip hop it was really just called street dance in the in the seventies it was street dance until hip hop came in the eighties with hip hop music. But the umbrella of hip hop and

In that time, one of the members of the group that I was in in Canada, a group called Streetscape, he actually went down to Long Beach, California in the late 70s and early 80s to go to school. And

he got to be there when the electric boogaloos were accredited with much of that popping style and the waves and all that and the twist of flex. He got to learn from them in the first generation, came back and by their standards, by their their records, he was the first guy in all of Canada to know how to do popping.

In

Boogaloo, and he taught his partner that he danced with, and his partner taught me and another guy. And I it's interesting because I just got a call from the Royal Museum of Alberta, where I'm from. And I am they just tracked me down, and I'm sending them all our old Streetscape outfits and clothes and scrapbook things and videotapes, because next year they're doing a whole exhibition, and part of the exhibition will be the sort of honoring of Streetscape, this group from Canada that I was in as a partnering group back in the early eight early.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (06:51)
my goodness. Just to hear already how the full circle is happening, that you're being reminded of the the the it the beginnings, right, of

Bradley Rapier (07:00)
Yes.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (07:01)
that genesis as I just mentioned, of where you get an idea of what your artistry can become by looking at somebody else. But

Bradley Rapier (07:09)
Mm-hmm.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (07:09)
I did get a chance to kind of glance at your book and one of the sections that I really got caught in was

the line versus the circle and the line that your father wanted you to go on. And when you introduced yourself or you introduced the concept that you might be taking on dance as a profession,

it

Bradley Rapier (07:28)
Ha ha ha.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (07:28)
didn't go as well as maybe you wanted. And I I want somebody who's possibly on that same kind of path where they're like, hey,

Bradley Rapier (07:34)
Yeah, yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (07:35)
my parents and my upbringing is going one direction, but I'm feeling this artistic pull from God, from my own desires to

Try something else. So tell someone a little bit about your story and about how you had to kind of navigate in another direction and maybe even your your your parents or your family thought you were going to go.

Bradley Rapier (07:54)
Yeah, so you know, my father came from another country to get to Canada, and that

Brought with him a s what I call a linear way of thinking, which is very common, especially for that generation, but even for people today, where you make a plan, we need to have goals, we need to have things we're aiming for, but it becomes, I'm going to go to school, get a degree, then I'll have a life, or I'm gonna do this and do that and have a life, whatever it might be. And that was the way he knew. He didn't know anything else. And that's and it actually had been successful. So why wouldn't he think that way? But there's a lot of pressure to just look at that end goal, and I

Would say you get on that line. So that when I talk about the line, it is necessary, it's important to have those things. But when you start living on the line, you tend to end up living transactionally. You tend to just be aiming at the at the end, so you're not really seeing the offshoots at the side. You're not venturing off the path. Why venture off the path to explore something? Because it's no time, and why would I take a chance of getting off the line I'm supposed to be on? So it becomes a line in my experience.

of success and failure. And that then grabs your identity. Now I believe it really can confuse a lot of people. I know it had a lot of effect on me and people I've seen that we're

When you're on that line, there's a tendency to make your identity about the successor failure. Your identity gets attached to your results. So then if you attempt these things and they fail, then you are a failure. That's the linear way of l living through proving and I gotta show what I can do and I gotta do these things. And there are times we have to step up and and and do all we can, do the best we can, but there's a difference between that and thinking I have to prove

who I am. And so that was it was interesting too because my father, even though he was on that linear way of thinking, and that's what he knew, and he got very confused when I decided not to. And thankfully he wasn't like a mean man, but he was very

disappointed and and confused and just thought I was insane, basically. And and he reminded me for many, many years that the schools that he went to medical school, that they would have me and all these things. it wasn't until he did my first Super Bowl halftime show that he kind of took a breath. But I but I would but it's funny because my father was at the same time, as I mentioned about his jazz collection, my father had the second largest jazz collection in all of Canada. And

He loved music. And what he didn't realize as part of, I like to say, my father was in the circle with me. I stepped into the circle, which is sort of the line transactional versus the circle relational, the line temporary, the circle endless. These kind of re real life metaphors of how you look at your experiences, how you look at mistakes along the way, what they're leading towards versus what they may make you fall off of. And my father

Even in his linear way of thinking, he would have me on the weekends when he wasn't on call. I would sit beside him or when I was younger, lie in his back or whatever, and he'd play these jazz records. And my dad would weep. He would weep and he would be playing this music and saying, Son, this is piano. Son, this is a voice. And he would go through all of the aspects. But

I'm listening, going, Dad, those individual aspects of that's a song, bass, whatever, those are the those things aren't what aren't what's making you cry. That's not what's can that's not what's making you cry. It's beyond that. There's something within that music that's making you weep that I'm seeing, and you're raising me up in. And he even shared with me before he passed away that he had dreams of being a saxophone player. So he

succeeded in life and provided for his family, but he was aware of that internally and he didn't share it, you know, except in that one dream he shared. And so it was difficult for him and I understand because art is messy. When I have a lot of grace for young artists because to step in as I say step in the circle and into that place where it's unknown.

To step into take that step where you only know the next step. And this is a lot of faith. I mean, we when we we talk about these things, the light to my path that we we don't know all the way. Follow me. What does that mean? It means right now. It doesn't mean I know the end. Well, that

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (12:29)
Yeah.

Bradley Rapier (12:30)
artistry of stepping into your design and stepping to who you're designed to be can't be done on the outside because you're just going to be theoretical. You're going to be philophilosophizing. You're going to be analyzing. And that's good. You'll make a few things, but until you step into having a

Podcast and start talking to people every week, you go, man, this is a little tricky. I need a mic. how did that go? I, you know, I planned to say this, and I didn't know Bradley was going to talk his dad and being a jazz musician. What do we do now? You know, if you're not doing it, you can't react and you can't find out what it is. But in that process, as a young artist, we as people supporting the art have to give them space to be a bit messy because relationships are messy. That's why transactions happen more, because they're easy.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (13:13)
Yeah.

Bradley Rapier (13:13)
It's easy to just go d check up a box, move on. It's harder to step in and build a relationship because you're gonna get hurt, you're gonna get confused, you're gonna make make some mistakes or you know, you're gonna quote fail, you're gonna do these things.

Who needs the who needs to hassle? I want the guarantees. and so it it is a choice to be made, but it's a fulfilling choice. It's a deeper, never-ending well of a circle as you step off the edge and decide to engage and step into take the invitation to step into all you're designed to be.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (13:47)
Well, I love the fact that you just alluded to the fact that this is not supposed to be easy.

So I want to quickly go to your path to some you just mentioned Super Bowl halftime very f like matter of factly, like your father just needed that as a as validation. When I'd be like, What?

So just talk a little bit about that 'cause some artists might might be listening and think that you just went from Cal Canada to the Super Bowl.

Bradley Rapier (14:10)
no, no, no, no. Yeah. I mean, obviously it's a longer story, but basically, I was in that group in Canada, Streetscape, that that brought me in. Right away, in terms of the larger story, that I I could tell that I was going to learn, experience new things in this culture compared to the what I was living. And that comes back to that initial thing we brought up that in

street dance culture, beyond the movies and all the kind of flashes of it, when you what we we call cipher, when you get in a circle together, you are required to do so.

So if there was a group of us together and we were in all street dancers and hanging out and the music came on, we formed this circle. Everybody has sort of experienced that, whether they're in a wedding or in a dance circle, and then you go in. But you must go in. So you can't sort of decide not to go in, or I don't feel like it, or I don't like the song. If you're part of the culture, there's a requirement to belong, to step in, to be curious and connect by stepping in the circle. And that for me, I had a lot of insecurity.

Securities to go through. So that culture was teaching me. Because I had to go in when I didn't when I felt like garbage or when I what didn't feel worthy, when I thought I people might have clapped, but I felt like I just was off beat everywhere. And those journeys was that beginning for me. So that group breaks up. I actually tried to walk away from the business because I thought, well, I had my few years success, you know, we did quite well up there.

And I thought I'd go back to a regular thing. But then this Canadian talent search happened. and that came up and it was like a star search kind of vibe where you go in and there's singing and dancing and acting and I won the competition.

And then that competition had a follow ups in LA and New York. That because I won there, I went there. And then I won in LA the solo dance and some acting awards. And then I won in New York. And and again I don't I when I say that, that sounds kinda easy. This is years of

Training, practicing, getting the ciphers, beating myself up, scared to go in, missing my family, not sure what whatever, being broke, sleeping on couches. Like this was not like next week to next week. This was months and years doing this stuff. and then I get to New York and this is when it changed. The the New York agencies, they had some a c a c a couple there, Joan and Arthur.

and they saw me and they had known about me from Calgary. They saw me there, they saw me in LA, and they saw me in New York. And they said, You deserve a chance to be in the States. We're gonna sponsor you. And they gave me their lawyers. And that's how I got in the States. And when I got to the States,

I thought, I'm in New York, this is the Mecca, this is the house of street dance and hip hop. But I c the only work at that time was just hitting on the streets, putting a hat out. I didn't want to do

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (17:10)
Hmm.

Bradley Rapier (17:11)
that. I didn't see didn't make sense, I wasn't against it. It was just didn't make sense to travel its way to do that. So I went out to LA.

and LA is where I got there. And I the first the the what was really amazing was when I got to LA, started doing a few videos, a few commercials, just again, not every day, doing some, paying the bills broke. Five four guys living in a studio apartment, like you know, eating ramen noodles, you know, all that kind of stuff. I went back to Canada. it's important because Vancouver, Canada is where I got very grounded. for three years I was there in the early 90s.

And I believe God really just took care of me there. two main things happened. He allowed my career to thrive. I started

to s it feel seemed like I filled a vacuum there in Vancouver.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (18:02)
Mm.

Bradley Rapier (18:03)
that if there was anything to do with street dance or hip hop, they brought me in. So I'd choreographed the films there, the commercials there, the promos there, the nightclub promotions, I'd do local shows hosting them. It was unbelievable. It wasn't to the volume of LA, but I was doing quite a lot. And then in that time I also got baptized there. And that was that was the there was obviously a long story before that, but in terms of the the

point there that really was a grounding it it gave me this the beginning of building the grounding that I had not had being younger and so that's that time three years there was was pivotal in my life and then actually from there when I went to LA I kind of realized I'm still legal now I've got an understanding I've got a grounding

you can go back to LA. And I went back to LA, but before I left, in Vancouver, there's a well-known choreographer named Anthony Thomas, who choreographed for Janet Jackson at the time, very famous, all the rhythm nation and all that stuff. And he was doing a movie up in Canada, being filmed in Vancouver, called Stay Tuned with John Ritter. And he brought up all these American celebrity dancers and he he auditioned to find a couple more dancers and he picked myself and at that time my dance partner named Grant Van Dyke, my

best friend at the time.

but we knew how to street dance. We knew how to do the style, me from Streetscape and him from what he knew. And so we got onto that movie. I do that film with him. Now I move to LA, and then he gives me my first job in '94. And I do, he brings me in for this little classic called a Goofy Movie. It's a classic Disney film, an animated film. He choreographed it, he was powerline. I was goofy. I was the dance reference for Goofy for that whole movie when Goofy's.

walking and doing the perfect cast. That's me. And they filmed me. And that that so that was my first sort of job there was doing that. And then, but still from there, I say that the point of that story is I still struggled for two years. I

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (20:06)
Yeah.

Bradley Rapier (20:07)
still, I still, it was till 96 when I did my first Super Bowl halftime show. And it's I was, you know, like sleeping in my car, got evicted. All these I I had to teach hip-hop back then back then it was called cardiofunk.

Hip-hop dance classes in the spandex shorts down at Gold's gym in the morning at 7 a.m. Get the people going, you know, whatever I could do to keep things going. So I understand my father's trepidation because he had seen what art, the challenge of art.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (20:35)
Yes.

Bradley Rapier (20:36)
You know, it's it's a up and down hall, you need support, you need a lot of things. But all through it all, every part of the journey for me became how well I could step in the circle because it mattered to the dance.

It mattered to how I survived. It mattered to how I comfortable I was and was I struggling and sweating it out every time. And the more that I realized that idea of stepping in, it really started to settle in my spirit as to, this is going beyond dance.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (21:09)
well, number one, I have to say this, you've just made me an a celebrity in my daughter's eyes because a goofy movie was all we played when she was younger. Number two,

less important, but just as important, is how you just mentioned going into this step of I've committed to I've committed to the art now. I'm committed to making it. I am going to stick with this.

I'm wondering which relationships, which moments and people, along with obviously the baptism was like huge because that grounded your faith, but I'm also talking about grounding in community because so much of what you've been talking about involves other people.

So tell me a little bit about

How you saw that activating your own life in terms of relationships, and how you see relationships and building between artists and people being so important now.

Bradley Rapier (21:59)
Yeah, that's great. So I had a mentor in my life. the one gentleman that actually in the first group I was in, named Wayne Headley, the one that went to learn from the Boogaloos, he's my best friend now, but he was my mentor. He's one that brought me to Christ, he's the one that told me to go to that church. He's still in my life. So that's one, he's just a constant. So we

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (22:16)
Mm-hmm.

Bradley Rapier (22:17)
walked our life together. but the other thing was thankfully, whether I learned it, it was part of me or how it was designed in me or from my experiences, I've

From the effects of the divorce, from the effects of challenges in my life, I want people to be together. I want things to last. I want people to feel welcome. I want them to feel encouraged. I want to bring joy. And even as the youngest, I'm sure it's part of when I used to distract the arguments and excuse me, trying to keep things going. So I'm also I'm a believer that you, you know, you don't, you've got to, you have opportunities every moment, every day to engage, to

not be at a party and go like no one's saying hi to me but go say hi to people. Go walk up to someone without an agenda and have a conversation. I've met a lot of celebrities to like

major people and the best conversations I've had have nothing to do with, you know, with the movie they just finished or the thing. It's more like, hey, we're I didn't know that you liked SEALs, you know, whatever it might be, you know what I mean? It's this kind of thing. So that aspect of me, wanting community, when I got to Los Angeles, I did think I had a storybook relationship with street dance.

Because I'd learned it in a distance from in Canada. I'd learned it properly, but I learned it in a distance. I wasn't in the culture learning it in LA, in California or in New York. I wasn't in that culture. So when I came to LA, I thought all the street dancers would hang out with all kind kumbaya and and you know and kind of have family. I don't know. I just had this thing. Nope. It was very protective. It was very like and certain sectors, like paupers didn't hang with the B-boys that much, and the lockers weren't hanging with the like it was kind of separated by style.

But also even within the style, you could have to kind of come watch some people at a club and try and catch what they're doing. It wasn't being taught to you. They weren't embracing you. And it

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (24:07)
Mm.

Bradley Rapier (24:07)
was, they were just very defensive. And there was reasons for that. But so when that happened, I was like, well, this ain't gonna work. So my wife and I started a gathering. So this is just the point to what you said. Don't wait. My wife and I started this gathering in the late 90s, probably like 97-ish.

And we started this gathering 96-97 that went for 20 years. and we initially was on the rooftop of our apartment. We lived in Hollywood. We had a pool on the roof, so we had, you the barbecue would invite people over, have music and food. And I'd invite over the legends like a like a Shabadoo and you know the pop and taco, and then not that these names maybe mean things, but dancers would know. And then I'd invite the new kids that were in. And but mainly I'd say, Allen, I love the way you were dancing there.

you were allowing me to see some authenticity in you. You weren't necessarily relying on just the flips and the f tricks. You you settled into this groove so beautifully and you were just there. I could sense it.

They wanna come over and jam with me and dance? And because I also was drawn to that because I was still looking to get that for myself, to be consistently connected to the groove, not in and out and in and out and kind of feeling connected and not. So I started inviting people over. They would come over, would have food, music, dance.

It grew. Then I got a key to a studio. A lady had a favor. I taught classes at a studio for years. She gave me a key. She said you can come here at night. I would go there at nine o'clock. Nine I'd go there at night at nine o'clock. I would open the door. I'd set up these little home Home Depot lights around the place and put on some music. And I would just invite people. And sometimes it'd be just me, sometimes one other person, sometimes three other people. The next you know started to grow, started to grow, and then we outgrew that studio. And then we went to the larger studio. And it became this groove night. Actors

would come in that were training for movies. Then at that time, in that time, the community was everything for me. It was these people, it was these relationships, it was having discussions. And I didn't realize that I was doing something different. I didn't invent anything, but I just was coming from a different perspective. When I saw other jams that were going on that were for competition sake, they would battle. As part of the culture, you know?

But when I had this the gatherings and circles before them, yeah, I we wanted to sharpen each other and kinda go back and forth and see what we had. But I would keep guided towards, hey, that was great. I'm not dancing here to beat you. I'm

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (26:41)
Mm-hmm.

Bradley Rapier (26:42)
dancing here to make you do more. And then I'd sort of stop and go, Hey, can you help that guy over there? And hey, hey, if you two did that over here, hey, I love what you did. Hey, hey guys, hey, how's your how's your how's your life right now? Hey, do you have kids? Really? And I I I I was just looking to

break away from just maybe the the the mode. And then within that wasn't only me. There are many great people in the group. It was the the main group I created or formed that came together during that time was called the Groovaloos. My wife named it the Groovaloos as an homage to the Boogaloos and the fact that we were gonna connect to the Groove. And but within that time

There was this is now the late nineties into well the you know before twenty nineteen or so, but in

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (27:23)
Okay.

Bradley Rapier (27:23)
the late nineties to the to twenty ten for sure, we were the grooves were like a very prominent group in LA, but in that same circle, in those circles, and part of the Groovaloos are members of the Jabbawockeez are members of the super crew and beat freaks. They were they were there before they were those crews, members of them, and

They were appreciative of the space that I was providing that was saying, let's create, let's meet. And then the beautiful thing happened is that They did

listen to this fast talking Canadian who had all these ideas for shows and stories, and we could do this and we could say that. And and they would try these things that I would say for performances. And one of our pivotal performances we did, our groundbreaking one that sort of set things off was the fact that I didn't know this was not happening already. I had three factors. I love the freestyle, like I mentioned, that when Allen gets into what Allen does without feeling he has to do anything, how can I set up

Routines for him to do that? How can I set it up for him to do that? Not for him to only just do what the scales are for the song, but what this is. And then how can I tell stories to some degree or make it have a sense of story? Not a full story, maybe, but a sense of a journey. And that wasn't happening that much at the time. And then also at the time in LA.

They were not mixing styles as I mentioned. And I so I didn't care about that. People say, don't bring those lockers and locking's old now. I go, no, I like that. I like that. you do poetry? I like that. And so I was bringing this blend together, celebrating freestyle, and it kind of exploded. And people and the dancers were like

Because many of the dancers almost were when we did some of our initial performances, there were people visi visibly emotional, going, I

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (29:11)
Mm.

Bradley Rapier (29:11)
forgot why I danced. I forgot why I was here, because we started to tell stories. and but it's all through the prism in that long, long answer of community, of that became the root of it all. And I didn't, you know, even in my book. My book's not a Christian book per se. I I didn't form the group of this as a Christian group, but I'm a Christian. And I led those ways and I love the

mix and they you know we we would gather and I would pray and many members of the group are very strong believers and and we have a great heritage and and and I and I know what it allowed me to do this is walk into this life of people and have this desire to have them see the wonder and the awe that can happen. And sure sometimes that comes across as butterflies and rainbows and he doesn't know what it's like to be and I say no no no I know it's like I've been I've had a divorce I have a you know I've had financial

Horrible things. I've had deaths in the family. I've had things that have happened. My sister, that I, you know, that I told you about some of the turmoil that happened. My older sister, I haven't seen her for over two decades. She left the family. Just you know, I've had my stuff financially,

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (30:17)
Yeah.

Bradley Rapier (30:17)
emotionally, but I choose to see the glimpses of greatness. I choose to go, you can do this, and we have something we have to do. And I won't find out what it is unless you step in the circle. I'm not gonna find it out if you stay over there. I'm not gonna know.

No.

We can just we can we can put little sheets up and manuals and make the plans, but until we get in there, like and start speaking in front of people or performing these ideas, see what they do, learn, and minimally take every experience as another way to have a relationship to step in, not take it everything as a hit or miss, or it's all over. We had one thing, I read about the story in my book.

With this gentleman. I I won't say his name, but we were doing quite well with with the Groovaloose and we had developed a show that was now being developed for off-Broadway. This is now getting into 2010, this is now moving on, and and we were starting to really expand and it was a show based on the true story of our group, and we were telling that story of how we all came together, all different stripes, all different places with these dreams, but the the heart of the freestyle was what brought us together.

We become a family, we face a tragedy, and we keep going. That was the show. and as we were doing the show, we had some one of the l at that time, the largest Broadway producer in all of New York wanted to potentially take us on to New York on Broadway as opposed to off-Broadway. And they they loved our show, they said it was great. They sent out this supervisor to watch us just do a a workshop and for a month.

And unfortunately this workshop was living on the line. He was trying to prove who he was. And from day one, he was trying to take the show over, become the director. We had a director. We were doing our show within our group. Danny Sistone was my best friend directing and we were working together to, you know, I was c I was the lead choreographer, but everybody choreographed. We were the we the group of this choreographed together. Collaborative,

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (32:14)
It was collaborative, yeah.

Bradley Rapier (32:15)
very col it was very collaborative. It was very all our stories being told. And I was just guiding the ship in a sense. And so he started to to do these things and

to really want to insert ideas just so that he could insert an idea kind of, you know, to kind of add something so he could say I added something and and pull something away that didn't make sense. But the point of the story is that this one time he came to us and he had done this work and now we're doing the showcase for his producers. And

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (32:44)
Okay.

Bradley Rapier (32:44)
he goes, you guys got one shot. This is it. You got one shot. It's like what?

What are you talking about? And that but that but again I have compassion because I under I I I I'm not I'm human. I've done things hopefully not as that bad, but where you just you're caught up in everything and and so you put it on people that you know if you guys blow this for me, you know, it's you know, and I kind of we get that, right? The pride comes up, and next you know, and the insecurity and the fear, and so but that idea of thinking that you can control the outcome, that you know we're

it's all going you don't or or that you have this this this wrong headedness that has you thinking that you're gonna just drive this ship forward without allowing to yourself to find out what is this ship made out of.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (33:37)
Yeah.

I feel like when you were just saying that that the mentality of you just said control, but I think another thing that a lot of artists would recognize is this kind of corporate do as I say, do as I'm told, kind of resistance

to the freedom of art. The freedom

Bradley Rapier (33:58)
Yeah. Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (34:00)
of they just talked about collaboration is what scares a lot of artists away when we tell them, hey

You gotta build, you gotta dream, you gotta go because they feel like they have to become someone like that who's very results oriented. When it's funny that there's this paradox that when you found your big breaks were all from inviting people in that didn't necessarily fit the the linear mold. And so what I'm really curious about is how do you encourage people who are on the outside, right? You invited people in.

You invited in actors, you invited in people who may not have been of your faith, but then you were able to connect with them on a faith level, right? So what are the patterns and the things that can help people say, unlike that guy, right? Instead of trying to bring my insecurities in, how do I bring my whole self in without losing myself?

Bradley Rapier (35:00)
the one of the biggest things I say from the very first step that when you're entering a new group, whether it's about life, family, business, or a new venture you want to go into.

The more that you can get curious about the people. Curiosity will take you so far because you cannot be fully curious.

about that group or that thing you're entering and worry about your hair and how you look in and you can't

So curiosity take you a long way to have you stop what I c in the first layer we have what I say we fall into being a victim.

The victim thought. We get to feel a bit entitled. We either are on the victim side of like, no one's gonna like me, no one's gonna accept me, or we're on the entitlement side, a bit of that pride comes in. I shouldn't even have to be at I should be invited there. I should be the red carpet should be rolled out. So I'm kind of ticked off why I'm even gonna go there. I'm gonna dismiss it. So you there's ways I I I share in this the ending chapter of my book. Don't skip ahead to the end, but I get to the end chapter of my book, it's called Grind or Groove,

If right now everybody that's listening, if we were sitting in a big room together, imagine we're all in this big conference together, and there's a guy doing his and and and Allen was up there doing a PowerPoint, discussing points about his gods and gigs, and he was saying these points and this and that and kind of giving you things to take away. And then it was his schedule for like 45 minutes and he's going through, going through, and also he stops and he goes, Okay, I want you guys to stop now for a second. Can you break up into groups of five and just circle up and just talk about what I was talking about and see if you've got any ideas?

So many people that I've been there to are like no.

Please don't do that. Just finish your talk. I want to get out of here, right? It's kind of the it's the knee-jerk reaction because the knee-jerk reaction is self- is self-focused. It just is. We we tend to fall into our own heads. And so that's the knee-jerk reaction. That's grinding. Because the grind is then, and I don't mean it's and I don't mean this different than when you work hard. Yeah, we do need to work hard. That's a different kind of a grind. But this

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (36:58)
Course, yeah, it's a different yeah, I gotcha.

Bradley Rapier (37:00)
grind is where we go, as I'm walking forward, you're going, gosh, was I even listening? gosh, I I don't have anything to say. I didn't even pay attention.

You know, and and and you know, did I br does my breath smell? Like everything is coming this way. That's grinding. Groove is I don't me being there, maybe being silent is fine. It's the same way with your friend. You may be you maybe just needed to be there silently because they're going through a hard time. You don't have to come with something.

generally speaking, in my family, when I have to talk to my son, or my wife and I have to have a discussion, or at work I've got to do something, or just want to, I, as I said, I'm a freestyle activator, I want to activate people. Well, I gotta

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (37:37)
Yeah.

Bradley Rapier (37:37)
do that by getting in first. And I I was the guy at the club when I first started going to clubs, when I was old enough to go to clubs. I would get to the clubs and I would get there, they would usually open at about nine, nine: thirty would be a club opening. And

It would generally happen that it'd be about an hour at least before people danced, that the floor would be empty. Always. And I

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (37:58)
yeah, yeah, always, always.

Bradley Rapier (38:02)
but actually what you saw was people, many, needed to kind of drink a bit. They needed to kind of loosen up a bit. I didn't need that. I was maybe too hyper. You know, they called it hyper

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (38:13)
Yeah.

Bradley Rapier (38:13)
back then. Back then they said hyper. But I would just get out there and I just start dancing. And whenever I did that, well then somebody would start dancing.

It's like it's like magic. You if you go then then we can dance now? We can dance now?

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (38:25)
That permission.

Bradley Rapier (38:26)
it's permission. And then the conversations happen. It's the same with life.

It's not being the obnoxious person that has to be first. Being at the center of the circle doesn't mean you are the in charge. I say that the future doesn't belong to the loudest voice in the room. It belongs to those brave enough to step in. It's stepping in and that might just be engaging on the side with someone. It may not be that you're in charge of everything, but you are leaning into your level of engagement.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (38:54)
I have to quickly say, because

Bradley Rapier (38:55)
Yes.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (38:55)
you said it so eloquently when it came down to being curious about others and

Bradley Rapier (39:00)
Yes.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (39:00)
being others focused.

You

Bradley Rapier (39:02)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (39:02)
mentioned the groove Something about the groove that seems more about spiritual connection than it is about just a beat. Because I'm a musician, so I hear groove and I immediately think, okay, the beat. But I also know,

Bradley Rapier (39:13)
Yeah. Right.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (39:15)
as a musician, I think scientifically, I'll just throw this out there. I might be wrong. Any scientists correct me if I'm wrong.

That as a musician plays with another musician, that their hearts sync that our brain waves begin to l align. And the whole groove is not just something that happens physically, but it does happen on a bigger level. So what if you had to explain that to somebody, because it has been your almost like a theme of your life, how would you look at groove now in context with everything else you're sharing?

Bradley Rapier (39:47)
Absolutely. in the context even when I mentioned earlier that as I wrote the book, it was these this this metaphor analogy to have people grasp the call to action, to step in the circle and they find this grounding in this larger, greater groove. In the book I'm very clear to say that I'm talking about one groove. So as opposed to sometimes we've heard the phrases, you know, get your groove back and Stella got a groove back and and and that's it's fun. And sometimes we we I say things like that, you hey I'm I'm in the groove, but

I'm talking about, I put it this way, there was one groove rolled out from the beginning of time with endless expressions unique to each of us by design. And so to be in the groove you're the same, for example, it wouldn't work if the two musicians were here in two different grooves. Now the grooves are are expressed differently through each person because we're uniquely made and it's going to manifest differently, but we've got to be connecting to a groove. So

When you step in a circle, it's getting a it's a the humility of connecting to the groove of that culture of that people of that song of that music, and not saying I'm just gonna find my groove, which is I'm gonna make sure I show up show up the most. so there's no doubt about that. When I think about in the in the book, I use the groove as as you're now stepping in the circle, you start to learn.

To trust in this process that you can step in without knowing what you're going to do next. That you start and over time, because you've gone I've done this a lot of times now. I've I've come up there, I've not really known what I was gonna do, but it has worked and I have found it. Well, you build trust in that process. You get trust in that process, you're getting trust in this larger, greater groove that.

is connecting you to the person. You you you're letting go of trying to go, okay, what the way it has to go and you're going, okay, this is what it is. And I do believe that, I I I actually do say in my book that

When I speak about groove, for me, myself personally, I am talking about the creation that surrounds us, the interaction I'm having with people and God's spirit. Like that is groove for me. That is the root of the groove. That that that that that initial groove that came from the beginning of time, that's why you know, mat everything came, math and rhythm and frequencies, everything came in existence that we are just thinking that we're so clever that we're discovering, you

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (42:11)
Right.

Bradley Rapier (42:12)
know, that we're that we're discovering different ways that it is there, but it is one groove.

with with a zillion gazillion ex ways to connect to it to get in that same vibe or that same you know frequency as somebody might say in their way. but yeah absolutely it is so important to understand that I believe the function of the gatherings, of the groups won't exist if if we're all trying to just find our own groove.

it won't ha it won't it won't happen and I and and you you're right, like what do they say? They I think I've heard this that you know that women they can start their their their cycles will start to match up if they're together. I've heard th all these things and we find we find all the y if a baby's lying on you it'll start to breathe the same as you and you know i and it all started with the heartbeat, right? So

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (43:07)
Yep.

Bradley Rapier (43:08)
it's right there. a and and it's so close to us.

And I believe the more you choose to trust and build connection and trust in this groove, that maybe you don't understand, maybe you don't want to believe that the way that we're talking and you just wanna say, but do, but do but I do believe it's so important that you

Consider and really digest the idea that there's something larger than you that's incredible that is there to guide you, that is going to show up. Because otherwise, all your dreams and thoughts and creativity is on you. And that's a lot to bear, and then you crash and burn so easily. But if you feel there's something lifting you, I I like to say it this way: when I look around and I see people and I'm in this conversation, like

Obviously this is a podcast, it's gotta end at some point and we gotta do things to do, but we could talk. It just it just is continuous. Like

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (44:05)
Yes.

Bradley Rapier (44:05)
w it's funny, we're here, you know, because we found each other through different ways, but I can imagine we could just talk about life and family and we would just keep going and our past experiences and and you know, I you gotta you've I you you've got a million stories yourself and those stories that we share, all point back to an original story. They're they're all what are they saying with movies as like maybe three original scripts and they're all

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (44:29)
Yes, three themes. Mm-hmm.

Bradley Rapier (44:30)
redone because they're all based on one you

know they're all based on the one thing they're all some variation of that because he does that's all there is it's all one root we tell our stories to have us go yeah that person over there get you know your story lights up ten other people over here and mine's lights up ten other people over here gives them a breath it builds them up encourages them makes them feel connected that that that vulnerability that honesty that sensing of

that is a some that is in a sense giving into the groove because I also put it I I do because it's the way I feel about it. I it's even both with what I believe believe and then what I've experienced,

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (45:11)
Okay.

Bradley Rapier (45:12)
the groove is there to guide you. Like you you there is I'm in a meeting and I'm in Beverly Hills talking to top executives about some project.

The moment I start kind of going, you know, I gotta, but if I just sort of just wait and listen and doesn't mean it might not go the way I want it, but there is something happening that I can't control that is running the show.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (45:39)
Yes.

Bradley Rapier (45:40)
And as I've learned to trust in that.

Even there's a song out now, This is what a miracle sounds like. This is what a miracle sounds like? It's it's it's sung by my pastor Torin Wells. this is what a miracle feels like, this is what a miracle feels like. And he sings this song basically saying, when a miracle is happening, you don't know it, it feels horrible sometimes. You might you don't know it's a miracle till over here.

Right. What is happening is the horror. You're like, this isn't happening. That broke up and that this and it's like, no. And then the miracle isn't till my gosh, you look back and go, What a miracle. but this is what a miracle feels like right now, while you're just experiencing it, you don't know that, but this is actually what it feels like. And that's why you can be gr grateful in it. These are like, okay, whoo, you know, I'm learning, something's going on here, you know.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (46:29)
Yep, God's working somewhere, yep.

Bradley Rapier (46:31)
And I do think I do I I wan I want to say one thing and I and I know you've got a lot here that we we could talk for everybody. Something you said earlier just made me think of this about the guidance. So when I first got to LA and you know I'm grateful I've been able to, you know, perform in super halftime shows and you know, choreographer the director of Hamilton and Jersey Boys and just do some amazing things on with So E Thinking to Dance and Dance with the Stars and Superstars of Dance and just TV and film and I mean just some amazing people, amazing relationships.

But when I first got there, my desire as a professional, besides, you know, making community, I wanted to be in videos. I wanted to dance with Mariah Carey and Janet Jackson and at

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (47:11)
Okay.

Bradley Rapier (47:11)
that time the artists, you know, Chris that's what I wanted. And I had the ability.

and not in a cocky way, I just knew I could learn the routines and do the stuff. but so could many others. There's many that were there. But I'd go to these auditions and I got to build relationships. I knew the c knew the choreographers. We became friends and now we're years, we're colleagues, but earlier on, you know, we were friends. And I remember this one time I'd been at this long cattle call, hundreds of dancers auditioning for Janet. And and and then later I talked to the choreographer at that time and he goes, Bradley, what are you doing? I go, Well, I want this. He goes, Bradley.

You're never gonna dance for Janet. I went what? She goes, Well, right now, do you see how t how how tall she is? Do you see that do you see the dancers that have toured through the last three years? Those dances are all five foot seven, five foot eight. You're five you're six two with your hair. You're six five. It's not gonna happen. At least in the iteration happening right now. And I was like, What? What do you mean?

And the same was for Mariah at that time. It was like basically I was, and I'm not saying that's the only reason that, you know, there are people, there's other reasons you don't get picked, but that was one of the fun and in that moment, I was like, wow, holy cow, that's wild.

But it was a beautiful thing because for me, at least the way I interpreted that at that moment, I went, okay, okay, I'm not going to force that. Now that doesn't mean I could have maybe kept going and maybe I would have got hired, and maybe they changed the thing and they're having people taller later. So, but for me, what it gave me, I went, okay, what can I do?

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (48:42)
Mm.

Bradley Rapier (48:42)
What can I do? And so as I started this gathering, I started saying, I have some ideas, and I've done a lot of pitches for TV shows. I've pitched a lot of shows, some have happened, many haven't.

I said I'm tired of pitching and giving theoretical ideas. I'm gonna show some people some ideas. And with these people I gathered, we started to show people, put up showcases, put up things that we were in. And then it stands on its own. It's good or it's people like it or they don't, but it exists.

And then people started to like it and go, that's good. And then I started to then be able to express myself in that and get support for that and even pull back out to help others into it. But it now become because of this thing that said no, I didn't take it as like I got I went, wait a minute, okay, wait, wait

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (49:23)
Yeah.

Bradley Rapier (49:24)
a minute. I like still to gather, I like still to create. and these people wanna kinda try something and they're creative too. wow. And so

It's just a reminder that, you know, as they say, a door closes, a window opens, you know, this y y you y you just be aware of what it might be and and don't necessarily just turn the other way. It might be, but it might be that you've gotta allow yourself to hear and step in that circle that it is continual rather than fall off the line and fail.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (49:56)
Yeah, but no, all I I heard right when you just said that last part about how God can use that, it's a r I thought of a redirection, not a rejection. Because that no from that one specific area again led to so many other areas where you have touched lives, where you were able to even again without necessarily preaching your faith, you were able

Bradley Rapier (50:18)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (50:19)
to represent your faith in places like Jesus Christ Superstar. And

This is why I want most of the artists who may not be full-time, to realize that circle you're called to may not look like you it you think it's supposed to look like. It may look totally different.

a

Bradley Rapier (50:34)
And you know it's

great too. Also, I to tell artists, trust your art. Not well, trust the creator of your art.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (50:40)
Mm.

Bradley Rapier (50:40)
Because one thing I did have to come to grips with was sometimes I did want to do well as I did my art, I wanted to be more holy, or I was trying to figure out what that means. And

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (50:52)
Yeah.

Bradley Rapier (50:52)
sometimes

again, you you wanna n d develop who you are at your core and be spoken so you know you get an understanding of what you really believe and live it out as best you can. But the best paintings, like you look at some of the Rembrandts

You look at those paintings, it might just be a painting of a guy, but they're be those older paintings back from the sixteen hundreds. I mean, the detail of those paintings, if you go back and look at Rembrandt's and s and that era, you will see the detail and look at a guy painting a person just at a leaning out of a a a watchtower or something. And you'll weep like 'cause it it's not there's not a angel, it's not a picture of an angel, it's not

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (51:30)
Right.

Bradley Rapier (51:30)
a and it's just you just know.

That the person painting it, you can see, you can sense, you can feel the it's there. You you watch, you hear a singer singing. you look look, take a take a movie when it's a instrumental, just just the there's this one part in Gladiator where there's this woman just kind of she's singing in some Portuguese or some other language, and it's just, but you it's so beautiful. Like, so trust that there's a there's something there that you don't necessarily have to put the pressure that it has to be this.

I when I've sometimes stepped out of my way to force an agenda, even

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (52:09)
Mm-hmm.

Bradley Rapier (52:09)
of faith it's not worked well for me. or or it's it's it's it's I can tell it's it's I kind of pushed that. I I was trying to make give an agenda so that I lose the connection because it's like

You know, as opposed to allowing the people to watch it to trust that they will hear what they will hear. And there's another per there's other things much larger than me that are guiding them as they perceive your art. You know, I mean have wisdom, get discernment, have counsel of people around you, but trust that often your art, your painting, your dance, your music, whatever, whatever whatever avenue you do.

that that has such great value. The the first person in the Bible that God actually speaks to is a craftsman. You know, and you know, he's just making great craft to make the temple and and and and so

It doesn't necessarily have to be wrapped in a bow in a certain way that what you think it has to be. and it may not be. And when you try that, it may be not. And some people we're all designed differently, right? Some people are designed to speak on Sunday, and some people designed to, you know, d do a podcast, you know, and but it's all that larger trust and not and and that surrender to that idea and that balance of pride and humility and then taking that courage and the risk to step in the circle and engage.

Get out of isolation, step further into the layers of who you're designed to be, invite others in, realize it's not all about you, and then start building that trust in that larger group for sure. Absolutely.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (53:38)
well,

I could tell you we could stay in this groove honestly all day long, but we do need to let people have a chance to learn more about you to go

Bradley Rapier (53:41)
Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (53:47)
check out the book. So I know that you know they have already hopefully clicked the link which we have put in the description. But quickly, if we're doing it old school, just let them know where they can find out more about you and where they can continue to learn how to step into the circle.

Bradley Rapier (54:02)
Totally. my my name, Bradley Rapier. it's for all my everything, whether it's Instagram or LinkedIn or anything like that, YouTube. my book is available on Amazon. You can go to Amazon or directly, or you can go to my website. My website again is www.bradleerapier dot com and that will give you access to the my background, the my background in what I do for keynotes and workshops and to be able to come and share some of the

the way I weave movement and story together in a unique way to bring you into a world and challenge you in the ways that you maybe engage with other people. and then also to find out more about my book, it's all there on the site as well.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (54:39)
Well, I know already, 'cause I again have not finished it yet, but I am learning so much. I'm gathering so much inspiration because of the way you artfully weave all of these different worlds between leadership and business. even though it is not targeted toward people of faith, it is woven into it because it's in your DNA. So I feel it and hear

Bradley Rapier (54:57)
Yeah.

Allen C. Paul | Founder, God and Gigs (54:58)
it just like you said. It doesn't have to have a label on it for you to come out.

and what you stand for and what you believe to come out and touch other people. So Bradley, this has been a absolute, absolute gem and an honor to talk with you. And I hope this will not be the last time.

Bradley Rapier (55:13)
Same. Thank you, Allen. And great again to talk to you and thanks for inviting me on your show.