Episode 259: SlopJacked

0:00 Podcasting 2.0 for May 1st, 2026, episode 259, Slop and Jack. Hello everybody from a very blustery, blustery Texas. It is time for podcast. This is the Board meeting of all things. We are in fact the only boardroom that works on May Day. I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in The man who wants all your s- It's Johnny!

0:51 - Chickens, I think that's what he means. You said that. I was like, hey. Alabama who owns You know. So we're talking about Pod News Weekly Review, also known as... With Sethi and the Criddler. Yeah. Cynthia and the Criddler. That sounds like a morning show. Cynthia and the Criddler. Coombs, Shetty, and the Criddler. Criddler, Criddler, Criddler, Criddler, Criddler. Criddler. Every week there's a new video. So I love my robot.

1:33 Because I just tell my robot, robot. Go get me that clip from the Pod News Weekly Review. Did it? And it did, and here it is. I really like your show, James, but I wish you'd stop talking about Adam Curry. I love my robot. Did he say that on the show too? Yes, he did. Oh, okay. I have not touched editing software for three weeks. Editing? What do you mean editing software? You know, for making audio for clips. Yeah. So you don't even have to clean them up anymore? No, I just tell the robot, go get... Here's what I tell the robot.

2:13 Go listen to that three-hour congressional testimony. Summarize it. Tell me what you think are some good bits. find story arc. Find the arcs within clips. Make the clips. Go. And then it drops it into my Obsidian folder. Neatly categorized. And, you know, it's not always perfect. But in general, it's pretty good. Yeah, but what about the audio, like the levels and stuff? Oh, no, it normalizes. This is all FFmpeg. Oh, yeah. It normalizes everything. All the things you would normally do. Everything I would normally do. And sometimes it has, you know, it'd be like, I don't know, someone on a phone call or...

2:59 Just some muffled audio. I want to say, hey, robot, clean that up. And I do the... transcription with whisper but I do it on together.ai And it uses the biggest, baddest, mofo whisper model it has. Word for word, JSON pops out. So it can, you know, with frames all the way down to frame level, so it can cut exactly where you want it. Oh, yeah, it's awesome. It's saving me hours of time. Yes, Eric P.P. I've been using that on no agenda for the past... Yeah, four weeks maybe.

3:41 Three, four weeks. I saw that Bloomberg article come out today, but I can't get to it because it's behind a paywall. Oh, I have a subscription. Do you have the link? I have a I have I got a subscription because the oil baron kept sending stuff to me like read what he's sending me. What does this subscribe today? I'm already subscribed, man. So you're the reason that Bloomberg still exists. I'll be the first to admit that, you know, Yes, I actually pay for content. I'm a horrible man that way.

4:21 Let me see. Now I can't remember what her name is. Ashley? Yeah. Let me see. Is there a search here somewhere? Would it be under AI maybe? Here it is. The audio industry is grappling with the rise of pod slop. Can you... Can you post the link? subscriber always is subscribed I am a subscriber You're not enough of one. Oh, yeah. There's different levels of subscriber now. You need to be more of a subscriber. Let me see. even more do you have the link do you have a link yeah but my signal is opening and it's oh It says loading messages from seven days ago. Oh, you can't just pop it into the boardroom?

5:06 There's a thought. Just saying. Come on. Come on, man. There it is. Thank you. There it is. Let's take a look. Welcome. It says undefined on the end, but this has nothing to do with Nathan Gathright, I promise. Let me see. Pod. Bloomberg. Bloomberg not again. Not again. Not in Nathan's property. The audio industry is grappling with the rise of Podslop. Slop. Are you able to read it? Yeah, I can. Welcome back to soundbite this week we take a look at the wave of ai generated podcast pod slop to some that's flooding the listening platforms.

5:46 Okay, let me see. caught up uh that she stood oh on his own podcast last week dave jones d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d Operate it. No mention of you. Marveled at the scale. He said. Welcome to the modern era of podcasting, in which thousands of new shows are released into the world every day, with a sizable portion likely being AI-generated. That is true, by the way. Yes. So I got to, okay.

6:27 Shoot me a copy of that. A copy of this? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just that article because I'd like to read it. And I would like to read it without paying $11.99 a month. Yeah. I figure I'm entitled since I was quoted, right? Since you were quoted, yeah. I thought you were going to do this on background. Harry Pee Pee said the chicken guy? He's the chicken guy. Well, let's just start with that for a second because there were some – I thought the interview with Alberto from RSS.com. on power was pretty good. Yeah, me too. Alberto's just top. I mean, he's great. He's a top-notch dude. He does not give a bad interview, and he's just a genuinely good person. He's also like, I'm a scientist. Yeah, I would love to see him with the coat.

7:16 coat and everything. So there were three clips that I pulled. because So RSS.com started with the opt-in. AI tag. So you can say it's, and I have, I use rss.com for a couple different things. So you can say it's fully AI generated, uses some AI elements, or you can just not do anything, which as he rightly says is also a signal. Right. And I realized I'd been thinking about this tag incorrectly because I kind of thought, well, you know, if you're doing AI, you know, and you don't want anyone to know, you're not going to fill out this stupid tag. So this clip kind of set me straight. But there's no policing of that either from Apple.

8:01 Should we be less voluntary to... disclosure and more a mandatory disclosure? Well, that's the point. The disclosure is voluntary in the sense that you have an element when you are uploading an episode where you can specify whether the podcast contains elements of AI. We'll get there later. You need some guidelines there. Because elements can be anything. But the voluntary disclosures paired to internal policies at Apple, for example, in the platforms or even institutions, can become mandatory because if you are in breach with Apple terms of service because you didn't disclose, then...

8:44 they can act. So the nuance of non-disclosing, once there is a disclosure and you are required to do that, even if it's voluntary, if you don't do that, then you are in breach. So there could be an action taken. That's where I think the detail is very important. So an episode which is generated by AI that should be disclosed, AI voice, AI script. no curation, it's in English or it's in Spanish and you get English prompts from an LLM. That is made by AI. If you don't disclose, someone removes the episode and I think they have the right to do so depending on the platform service and terms and conditions. So now I understood. Okay, that makes sense to me.

9:25 Like if someone says, hey, this is a piece of slop. And they go to rss.com and say, hey, this is slop. And they go and look and... it wasn't disclosed, then you violated their terms. They can kick you off. So from the hosting company's perspective, great idea. That made sense. I never really thought of it that way. It's like, who cares, you know, if you're going to signal it to me as slop or not. or AI generated. So that... And yes, Alberto has a PhD in artificial intelligence, I think. or he has a PhD in something that includes artificial intelligence. So he really wants to make this work. So I thought that was good. Then he said something which, of course, I knew he was talking about me. People are barking in this period, you know. They're just saying, that's a problem. We have to solve it. It's about money and advertisement. But really, if we disclose, we follow regulations and we, together, as an industry.

10:23 go towards the same direction, this is a problem that can't be solved, really. Yes, that would be me barking. And the reason why I'm barking about that is because... It is a scam. And I just want to explain the scam. And I'm sure everyone realizes it. Because there's two sides to the scam. One side is you just have. a bot, a large language model, a bot, create podcasts, create episodes. The scam is that you have advertisements to typically pre-roll. The scam is on the listening side. Go look at the numbers at Livewire. The amount of browser traffic Traffic has increased. There's so much scammy stuff going on.

11:07 with downloads that this is where, and it's no, as JCD would say, no sweat off my balls, but it is going to affect advertising. So it may be a little win in the short term and the platforms do make some money off of that. You know, it could be hundreds, thousands of dollars a month. I don't think it's huge yet. It could be bigger. But advertisers are eventually going to say, wait a minute, you have these things automatically created. And then you have on the other side, you have these things that are automatically listening. That's stealing money. So yeah, I'll bark about that a little bit. The digital advertising business has proved – Completely inept.

11:53 over 25 years now? at combating All of the things that we know that are going on that are scams. Yes. I mean, click fraud. is just as prevalent today as it was 25 years ago. And so, and there's never been. comprehensive you know, like a battle against that. Like it's just. Part of it, I mean, I think part of it is because Google. owns 90% of the digital advertising market. So it's sort of... A lot of it's obfuscated.

12:33 Digital advertising fraud is not... You know, that's... Like one of the... the The scan, and it doesn't even have... It doesn't have to be – I think back to – Spotify a few years ago. There was these stories. about streamers and this was actual organized fraud where there were people running like of cell phones, like 200 cell phones streaming all day long of different Spotify, you know, different Spotify. songs in order to boost streaming downloads so that they could boost You know, you could essentially buy these fake streams.

13:20 And now that's just flat out. Absolutely fraudulent. The... So they were people. who had music on Spotify, who were buying those. stream in streams, increase my stream services and defrauding Spotify. and therefore the music companies. This is a little different. Because... The way streams are in the music world. are all first party. There's no... There's no way you can listen to a story.

14:03 stream of music and not be logged into something. with an account. And so all the data, the advertising, all that stuff is all in line in a first-party context. Podcasting is different. Podcasting is completely... unregulated and open in that way. So anybody can come along and download an episode of your podcast. And you have to sort of figure out after the fact. What that thing was... Where did it actually come from? Was it a real person?

14:43 Maybe. What was the device? You don't... You really don't know. This is true. But I think that it's solvable. It's not actually an AI problem. All that this has been going on since advertising started in podcasting, fake downloads. And there's lots of... filters and heuristics and ways that people can figure it out. Can they figure it all out? No, absolutely not. I'd say home-based routers are probably the number one place where this is taking place and people don't even know it. There's entire bot networks that take over home routers to do stuff like this. The solvability is in how we as a group of crazy people decide to.

15:30 hand over first party data, which is, you know, it's possible. So it's not something we're going to solve. I'm just saying, once again, The metric that is used for podcast advertising is poor. It's poor. And we could do better, but will anybody? I don't know. So it's, it's just the, it. I guess what I'm trying to say, though, is that... this i'm gonna put scam in quotes because scam implies that somebody's doing something illegal and I, and I'm, I think this is all squishy. And so that's not what I'm saying, but. the sort of download Art of if you want to boost your downloads of your podcast artificially and I honestly I ought to do this one time. I ought to do this someday.

16:20 Maybe soon. We should go do one of these download boosting things and just see what happens. Because we're on OP3. We could see it. We could see the effect of it. In fact, I am going to do this. So in the next few episodes, I'm going to sign up for one of these download boosting services. like Mopod or one of these. N. you'll get your, you know, you get a bump. In your downloads. Isn't this magic? That's magic, right? Isn't this magic? Yeah. Because... So...

17:01 There's ways to boost your download numbers. In podcasting. That do not involve botnets of router armies doing fake downloads. Of course. I agree with what you're saying. But it's not fake downloads, but it's still... These are, there's this gray area in the middle where it's. It's not fraud. But it's not real people interested in your podcast. It's a squishy middle. where you're getting downloads in ways that are just like... People not listening. People not listening.

17:43 Right. Very temporary. But the thing that we used to have, you had to at least create a podcast. Now you can create 300 podcasts a day. That's the fraud part. So it's just, look. Again, it doesn't matter to me. But advertisers at a certain point will say... You know, this podcasting stuff, it's just too squishy. It's no sweat off my balls. So, you know. Yeah, that. Yeah, so I'm just saying. We're talking around the problem. Well, but see, so.

18:27 Mark. C-Loss on Linux said he boosted. Bark for me. Three nine nine six sats. Thank you. Salty crap, like Tucson Dental Care. Yeah. Tucson Dental Care. The pod spammer extraordinaire, evidently. Yeah, that's amazing. Dozens of them. All over the place, by the way. Transform your smile with Tucson Dentist! Yeah, and you get that thing right into Apple Podcasts. So now you have SEO from an Apple.com domain. Which you've won the digital Olympics. And so, yeah, this is – and they're on every host. They're spread out. Somebody is doing this. Yeah. I don't know who it is, but somebody is doing this. And there's a difference between – Let me see if I can find it. Let's do show and tell. All right, show and tell, everybody.

19:32 Oh, here we go. Top dental crown, Tucson for perfect smiles. Okay, so there's a difference between... This. Podcast index ID 7747008. that is protect and preserve your damaged or weakened teeth with a custom crafted dental crown. By author GKY74. But And then something like. Phoenix, let me see.

20:13 This is podcast index ID. 587-6525. Oh, I may have to listen to it now. Is there actual audio? Let me see. I'm sure there is, yeah. Ooh, ominous. Which one is this? This is drop-top-drop-top-beamer. Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode. No, that sounds like a real podcast, Dave. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Here's... Here's the difference. title of this podcast in the title field of the xml oh i see it phoenix auto detailing llc well i mean is that is that a problem it's not a problem and that's my point yeah one of them is for is a dentist in tucson The other one is an auto detailer in Phoenix. Yeah.

21:05 But the two, so both are local business advertising essentially, but one of them is just purely a placeholder for SEO and nothing else. Right. The other one is an actual podcast. Yes, it is a branded podcast. for a local business, but that's fine. Nothing wrong with that, no. Nothing wrong with it. They're actually doing a show. Yeah. The other thing is just using the podcasting ecosystem platforms as a way to get backlinks into search engine ranking. Yes, right. I consider one of these completely legitimate and one of them abuse. One of them is platform abuse. On the dentistry, so I just want to warn that we don't go down a certain path because this also came up in power. If you are an independent content producer, you are being swamped by these slopcasts.

22:01 And by people that frankly don't care about you, they don't care about the audience, they don't care about anything other than can we make another £2.20 by fooling people that this is a real human being or even worse, by calling someone a doctor. A spam voice. Oh, yes. But calling them a doctor. and giving medical advice, which may or may not have even been checked by a human being. Terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. Don't go down that path because now you're talking about something different. And there's a lot of doctors who will kill you with their advice who are human beings. So don't go down that path.

22:42 I think that's the wrong way to look at it. I agree with this, maybe with a little bit of a different twist. I know what you're saying. You're saying that's the truth. Don't trust Fauci is what I'm saying. Yeah, that's the censorship. That's like now you're being in your editorial office. Yes. But... I want to make a different point about that, which is... I think I understand why he's saying that. And it is he it's a legitimate concern because. You're really calling your AI. boosts.

23:23 a doctor is, it's kind of over the top. I mean, that's crazy. But I think... I would be careful about using that too much as our example. Yes. Because it gets the... The eye off sort of the bigger issue. Yes. I don't want to get too focused on things like that because it's the bigger problem, I think, is what he said at the beginning. Which is... The slop is overwhelming. the system. And the system-- This is what I say, what I call it, you know. We've always said there is no podcast industry, and I still believe that.

24:06 What the podcast, quote unquote, podcast industry is. is just a sort of a meta narrative on top of just a bunch of... hosting providers and XML and things like that. We create this idea of there being an industry over the top of just a bunch of stuff. And so... I still agree with that. But... There is... There is a distribution system. that is in place that's like Apple Podcasts, like Podcast Index, like, you know, Pucket casts, you know, the...

24:55 Everybody who has a directory... created their directory Listen Notes. created the directory with a certain idea in mind. that there was. a thing that was called podcasting. and We could sort of inventory that thing and display it back. to the world. through podcast apps. As a way to find the content that people are looking for. Yeah. And I've tried. I've tried to shift. This is difficult and I'm still not successful at it, but I've tried to mentally shift.

25:38 from the standpoint of We're going to find every single podcast. meaning every XML with an enclosure in it. to something slightly different, which is... We want to have a copy of every podcast that somebody would ever look for. If you're... If somebody wants to find it, they should be able to find it on the podcast index. Okay. That doesn't mean that we're only going to have that. But to me, that's my, what I'm trying to shift mentally into that as my baseline. Because if nobody ever wants a thing, then it might as well not even exist.

26:21 It's sort of like the tree falling in the woods. It's sort of an irrelevant question about whether you have it. if nobody ever wants it. And I think we're going to have to, in order to accomplish that goal, We always have and we always will have to. have way more content. in the index than anybody would ever want. The question is, how do you get it when someone wants it? How do you surface what they want? And that's part of what we... You know, we already have a facility in place for that, and that's... When somebody searches for something on the podcast index.

27:06 hourly We go back and we look for things people searched for. that were missed. So if somebody searched for something, a feed URL or an iTunes ID or something like that. and it didn't show up. We didn't have it. We will go get it. So we sort of backfill behind people searching for things and those searches not showing up any results. How does that process work, the backfill? Well, if it's a feed URL and we don't have it, we go find it. It just gets it. It just gets added. Yeah. If it's an iTunes ID, it gets resolved.

27:48 added. Would I would like to I'd like to go even further. I can't find a real sane way to do it yet, but I would love to go. and try to figure out if something looks like an exact title and then go really do searching across various. repositories and try to find that thing. But we backfill a lot. We do that a lot. I think the... You know, the point. It's like, what? What even is the point of us? Now, now you're talking. Why am I even here? On my Friday afternoon. There's many other things I could do.

28:33 I mean, are we... Are we an API? For app developers, are we a research tool? Are we a utility for the hosting companies? Are we a shim for tags, a spam filter, an XML catalog of audio? We have message bus. Well, well. Right now, we're all of that. Yes. But the genesis of it. that the genesis of this project, we'll just call it a project. is that every single independent developer was looking at the Apple database. And that was the source of truth. because there's just too much out there to store it all in your app.

29:15 And... Apple decided to take things out that they didn't like. That's the genesis of the project. And then part two of the project was, well, since we're here anyway. Why don't we extend RSS and build a namespace? Which, according to Rob Greenlee, is fringe and no one cares. Yeah. Rob Greenlee is off the chain. Okay, whatever, Rob. Even the Criddler defended us on that one. That was appreciated. Yeah, that was appreciated. Rob's lost his mind.

29:55 We're not doing video- Has anybody checked Rob's medication? I like what we've become. I like that we're this universal resource that is... I think also universally appreciated. and used by many different constituencies for many different things. Um... But the ability to become a better... discovery slash search slash recommendation engine. would be something incredible.

30:41 Yeah, yeah, I mean, like... I feel definitely that we're going to have to... weather the current storm to a degree. According to Bloomberg, you're the guy, so. chicken guy the chicken guy the chicken guy some dude in alabama with chickens runs that thing man Just saying. We're all going to have to wait. And it's not just us. You can see this. coming a mile away it's it's not you could see this coming at the end of last year it's not just us it's github yes yeah exactly i mean github is what the latest numbers i saw this week was that GitHub has had a 14x increase.

31:33 and commit. Oh wow. Oh man. How does anybody absorb that much traffic? That's a great question. Really, we're at a particular moment in time. where This stuff's We're not prepared. We were not prepared for the slop. know slop apocalypse for the slaw pop nobody was it's not just podcasting nobody was prepared for this and I listened to a good, uh, interview last night with The guy that created the.

32:19 pie AI coding agent. Don't know if you're familiar with this. No, I'm not. I'm not. So it's what OpenClaw is based on. Okay. My understanding is OpenClaw just took Pi and... forked it and it became open claw. Oh, interesting. So Pi is like open code, but... It's less opinionated. It's highly customizable. I really want to try it. It sounds like a cool thing. But the creator of Pi... was saying that They had a real in-depth discussion about just what has been happening.

33:03 with all of this. And he said that he immediately closes all pull requests that come from an AI agent. Just immediately. He doesn't even look at them. It's just auto, he just auto closes it. And he has a... basically a an allow list In a file in his repository, and it's like unless your GitHub name is on his list, you can't open a pull request. without it being auto closed. And so it's like this, he uses it as a sort of filter, and like if you contact him... in an out of band way and he knows who you are, you get on the list and now you can do pull requests.

33:49 and It's just this idea. then that's the creator of one of these tools you know Um... I mean, even the creator of one of these prominent tools is having to put a whitelist in place in order to keep... this stuff to be manageable. And. I think we're... Does that make- And here's the issue. There's going to have to be some grace given. cause. This We are humans trying to deal. with an automated onslaught.

34:31 content. And we are going to get some of it wrong. And that's what he was saying. He was like, look, there's probably some pull requests. that gets sent to the Pi repo. that are actually really good. and they would fix real problems, and we should merge it. but I can't do it because I do not have time to review. 300 pull requests a week. can't do it. And so all the good stuff is also going to get cut is going to get. thrown out the baby's going to get thrown out with the bath water in some circumstances I heard somebody...

35:14 You know, I think, I can't remember who this was, but I heard somebody a long time ago say... If you put on white gloves and go and work out in the garden, The garden doesn't get more glovey. No, those, you're going to get dirty. And that's what's going to happen. And I think that's the point James was trying to make when he said that everybody was, that real podcasters are getting overwhelmed with a wave of slop. This is going to dirty us all up. as this process unfolds. And so the grace is going to have to be. Let's not start calling and telling each other, let's not start complaining that we're doing censorship and all this kind of thing.

36:01 We're trying the best we can to deal with this. There's going to be mistakes as we go through this process. There's going to be a mess. But this truly is a new thing that we've never seen before. And so it's going to take time to figure out how to deal with it properly. You know what I also think? I think this may be temporal. This, this, uh, right now we're in this mode of Look at all the stuff I can do. What shall I do? Oh, I'll do this. You know what I mean? It's like... People haven't quite used their imagination. Like, okay, so I have this capability, whether it's OpenClaw or Pi, or maybe it's just Claude code or OpenCode. I can do all this stuff with my computer. I can tell my computer to do stuff. This is the dream.

36:53 This is what we've, I've been watching this since I was five years old. Computer. Do this. Computer, tell me about this. Computer. Write me a Word document, computer, all these things. And I think where the energy will flow eventually. So, again. I mean, I don't know if it's lucrative to be doing this podcast round robin I think it's cool you know I can see where people look at all these podcasts I've created it's amazing But that will wear off and the money will taper off for a whole bunch of different reasons. The industry will kind of start to figure this out. We'll work through that. But But what's happening is something.

37:35 I think much bigger. And I'm trying to, I've already made that leap. You know, I'm using this now for my production in ways I never imagined possible. My computer is actually working for me, doing things I used to do by hand. And when people start to figure that out, I think we'll have a shift. that may be so dramatic that your phone might not even have as many apps. Your phone will just do things you tell it to do. It'll have input with voice and output with text, voice, and video. You may not be, you know, copy-paste. That's for pussies. We're never going to do that again.

38:15 Ever. Ever. Send this to Dave. Get the text of this Bloomberg article, send it to Dave. I think that creativity hasn't quite sparked yet. but it's going to happen. And so this, and. And by the same token, people will want to say, just find me a podcast that has this. And my phone or whatever will come back and say, well, here's some options. Well, tell me what's in them. Okay, well, this sounds like an automated voice. I discard that. Yeah, this sounds like a doctor, but I cross-reference. He's kind of... sketchy so maybe maybe not You know, I think that's where it's going to go. That's the beauty of what's being built here, particularly with...

39:02 LLMs that do coding. Enough of the chatbots and all that, fine. But your computer actually doing something for you instead of... This clunky graphical user interface with a mouse. You know, Dvorak will be vindicated. Dvorak will be vindicated. Yes, the barbaric mouse. You know, it'll be something completely different. And we just haven't, you know, now that everybody has these tools, the few who are super creative. just haven't broken through yet, but I think they will. And I think that's, that I think is what you're looking at. Because you are super creative and you're going to find out the path to this. And it's probably not.

39:47 desperately trying to fight the slop. That's going to taper. Now... I hope. I hope. So, for instance, the pie guy. I can easily see writing a bot that says, okay, go through these 300 pull requests and make an estimation. find the 10 that you think are worthwhile and show those to me. I think that will fix itself. I'm seeing it already. I couldn't believe what happened. Can I just give an example? Yeah, sure. So for yesterday's No Agenda, I had... 29. bins with clips in my Obsidian daily folder, which all had two to four clips each in it. So there's a lot of clips.

40:32 And, you know, so that. I had Iran UAE, Iran Trump's what he's saying, gay General Patton, Scott Besson, all these different things. Then I have under computing like Sam Altman, OpenAI fighting with Elon to anthropic pricing, all these different things. And this is now on Claude 4.7. I said... Make meta categories of this. So put all the Iran stuff under Iran. Just make Medi-Cat. It comes back with a markdown document. that not only did it have meta categories it suggested which clips to drop which clips to use, which ones to switch around. I was blown away. This thing just saved me two hours on a prep day.

41:21 That's the kind of stuff that we're going to start getting if we focus on it. and all the slop stuff, eh, temporal. really think it's temporal and i i of course hope so for you so i'm when i guess i'm saying is Can we, let's just say the slop is unsloppable. to a certain degree. But can we, what you just said, what people really want. is they want to find what they're looking for. And if anyone is uniquely positioned to build that it's the podcast index because only we Have some dude in Alabama with chickens.

42:02 Yeah. This, let me show you what. we're not going to get rid of. while we're doing show and tell. Okay. Podcast index ID 7829041. Link in the link in the border. I'm looking at it. Yeah, it's loading. Shakespearean tragedy. Yes. Okay. With Matilda. Now, before you hit play. Okay. Before you hit play. Before I hit play. Don't even look at what hosts. its own. Don't do anything. I'm not looking at anything. I'm looking at the picture. I'm looking at the picture. Tell me what you think this is. Well, I'm looking at the picture and I think. In no universe is there a chick that looks like this reading Shakespeare. That's my first inclination.

42:49 And... Can I read or am I allowed to read the descriptions? Yes, yes, absolutely. You just can't listen to the audio yet. Okay. - First episode I see, Shakespearean tragedy with Matilda Ridgeway. In this conversation, we dive into the depths. AI language. We're diving into anything that's already a flag for me. Look at the top level description under the, in the main. Oh, yes. A deep dive. Into the world of Matilda Ridgeway, who plays Lady Macbeth in her tour with the Bell Shakespeare production. Oh! So this may be written by AI. but she may be an actual cute actress.

43:31 So I'm curious. I am pod curious at this point. Let her rip. News Radio. His name is Pooja Smith. Today, we're diving into the dark patriarchal world. of medieval Scotland. Okay, alrighty then. Not what you were expecting, was it? No, not at all. But it's okay, I'm not hurt because I can just mark this as not what I wanted. Right. So this is an example of something we absolutely will never – this is – We're not going to get rid of this out of the index. No. Well, the thing is, I spent a few minutes.

44:17 Looking at this this week, trying to figure out what the point was, it caught me off guard because I'm like you. I looked at it and I was like, yeah, that's AI. And I'm like, I'll just double check and hit the play. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is like a 13-year-old Indian girl or Pakistani or something. I don't know. I'm like, who is this? So this to me seems – But this is great, though. Nobody will ever want to listen to this podcast except her. Nobody. But I think – This to me, this looks like a typical open-claw gone rogue, create a podcast, grab some audio from somewhere and publish. It worked. That's what this feels like to me.

45:03 Maybe. Yeah, maybe. I mean, it feels – I see tons of this on like Anchor and Spreaker. of, you know, some teenager that's just... having fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the description throws you off. I mean, if you're having fun, why would you do that? Matilda Ridgway is a real person. No, she has a full-on... She has a full-on... fake interview with herself. Playing both characters, it's great. I listened to the whole thing. Well, now, there you go. So it's valid. Challenge!

45:43 It was like oddly fascinating. He couldn't turn it off. All right, Dave, we need to get you a different hobby. Okay. No, I am going to make a plea here, though. Can I make a plea? Yeah, make a plea. Okay, my plea is... Somebody please. I'm not very comfortable asking for stuff like this, but somebody please. Either donate... Uh... a, a, a, Enough money to us, about $3,500. Enough money to where we can buy.

46:25 a hardcore machine like a DGX Spark. so I can train this model. Or send us like. A 64 gigabyte Mac mini or something. Oh, it's a donation drive. Here we go. I'm good at these. I can do donation drives. All we really need is a $3,500 machine and we will solve the problems of the world. Because my 16 gig Mac. Mac Mini M4. it cannot handle what I'm trying to do. It's like, it is, it is crying for help. Uh, so I think in order, cause all the, I'm doing all this at home because we can, we can't afford it.

47:09 some kind of AI API cost in order to Filter all this stuff out. So I'm really I'm literally just running a look running all of this and training this model locally so my my my plea for help is Somebody send us a big-ass Mac mini with a bunch of RAM or third or like about three grand thirty five hundred bucks to get a DGX park or something where we can have a local machine capable keeping up with what we're trying to do because it actually is. So we can't do this with a rented GPU? Have you looked at those? Not the model training part. I think that's going to be, that's going to take.

47:50 a long time. Bye. Okay, so my plea is over. Cost-wise going forward, though, I think this makes financial sense for us to just... own it outright. Okay. Going. But on that note, though... I did finish the API endpoint for the CSV upload. Yes, yes. Very excited about this. Give us your data. The follow count API. for CSV uploads. I'm very excited about this.

48:32 And so I'm going to publish the... for the endpoint and how it works, but here's the idea. the This is for the intended audience for this. is podcast apps. So if you're not a podcast app, then you can stop the podcast. Stop listening. Forget about it. um So We would want... people like Podverse. Overcast, Pocket Cast.

49:15 Cast-o-matic, I don't know if Franco even has this data. True fans, you know, obviously just. Everybody, if you're a podcast app. We would like. you to periodically if you can. Or if you're willing. Upload. your follower count data to us through this endpoint. And so it's a post. That's a post request with a, with a. Multi-part upload. format. And it's just a CSV file. And again, I'll post the details of this.

49:56 I'm trying to, what I'm going to do is go back and do a proper like open API. implement it like spec so i'm gonna i'm gonna get all that cleaned up So I'll post the details of how to do this shortly. You'll upload the CSV. And instead the CSV just has two columns. I'm just trying to make this effortless for people because I don't want anybody to have to jump through a ton of hoops. Yeah. It's a feed URL. follower count. Well, the good news is... Uh... Sam Sethi already had this built three months ago before you even asked for it. So it's coming from true fans first. He's just been getting a 404 on that API request every day. He's been hitting it. He's been hitting it.

50:44 I got you covered coming in, coming in clutch. Um, so. then you... So you'll just, if you can, just periodically upload this. And it's a list of all the feed URLs, the podcast feed URLs in your system and how many of your users slash listeners follow or subscribe to that feed. And so that will be used for ranking and returning of services. results I presume. the Yes, that's going to be used for so many things. We're going to... This would be so helpful for us. fruit. and describing how.

51:27 We don't have access to first party data. And don't want it. We don't know. and don't want it. But we do want to have some way of knowing. What? what is actually popular and being actively listened to and followed in the world. And that will help us to. the immediate way that it helps. is going to be with training the model. because you can't. It's always way easier to find the bad feeds than it is to find the good ones. Like this one you just posted, which is your new favorite. I know you're subscribed to that girl.

52:08 Oh, yeah. It'll never have another episode, but I'm refreshing every day. So... You're- We need, in order for the training data to make sense, and like we said last week, it's going to be training, developing your training data is the hardest part. Because we need it to be comprehensive and we need it to be balanced. We need... We're going to need about... I'm aiming for about 25,000 feeds of each type. I'm not worried about the slop feeds. I'm not worried about the spam feeds. I can get those in a day. It would be so easy to get 25,000 of those.

52:52 The good feeds, finding 25,000 feeds of all different flavors and varieties that people actually follow and listen to. This will be so good, so good to have this. Critical, critical. Yeah. And then we can not only use it to train. the model. And we can also use this for accurate ranking. And this has the added benefit. of being cross app. Because each app has its own flavor. The number of people who follow a certain podcast on Fountain is going to be complete. different than the number who follow it on true fans. Now, will you have that ranking? Will you take that into account? Let me see if I can explain that. So if someone's on Fountain and they're searching for...

53:43 A Bitcoin podcast. They may actually want something different than someone on Um, The podcast guru who was looking for it. A Bitcoin podcast. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah. I know what you're saying. Mm-hmm. Because you may have two. Both people may be interested in Bitcoin, but different kinds for different reasons. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You may have one person who listens. you know to peter mccormick and another one who listens to a bunch of wavelake yeah So you're... Yeah, and this should normalize that across the whole.

54:23 thing that way you're not you don't end up biased real heavily towards because imagine if only overcast sent their data Well, I'm saying... Lord help me. No. you'd end up with a whole bunch of shows that are Mac-specific. You see what I'm saying? Well, but yes. So my question or what I'm saying is. Will there be a way for a... podcast app. who has a user who is looking for something. So Overcast, great example. So that user will probably want something different than the fountain user. So does it behoove us to normalize it or does it behoove us to say, well, if you're this app.

55:12 You might want these results. I think we could do it in both ways. Okay. You know, because that'll be the that'll be the cool part is that we could say, do you want a normalized ranking of because right now we're in the in the database we have. A column called popularity. Mm-hmm. And everybody wonders what that is. It's just whatever some dude in Alabama with chickens really likes. Yeah, exactly. It's the backcountry redneck scoring system. You know, you break out the 22, shoot a few bottles and figure out what comes next. I don't know what that.

55:53 column necessarily means either. And I'm the one that wrote it. Yeah. I mean, I know how I'm deriving it. Which I don't. really like to discuss publicly because I don't want it to be like, you know, gamed out or anything, but it's... It's just been sort of trial and error over the years based on API traffic. And it's just not good enough. It's not good enough. So we can replace that with real data. I love it. When I saw that on the index, on the social, I'm like, oh man, this is so cool. So cool. Yeah, I think it's going to work.

56:35 Really? Well, I just I have to so there's a few unknowns here I don't. Obviously, I don't know how many people will participate. I really hope it's a lot. I hope. that people don't because this is complete this is purely anonymized data there's no Well, we're the right guys to do it. We're the right guys to do it. We're not going to try and make money off of your user's data. True. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So if that's true, Apple can't do this because Apple will somehow make money off of your data. Everyone knows that. When I was talking to Ashley Carmen on the phone, she's like, So you partner with hosting companies. And I was like, no, we don't really partner with them. I mean, we just...

57:20 I think. I think maybe... She didn't really believe me that we... Or she was finding it hard to believe that there was no financial incentive in what we're doing. Hence the dude in Alabama with chickens. He's just some weirdo redneck. Does he live in a trailer? Does he live in a double wide? Now it's making sense to me. Yeah, you're either lying or you really are a kook. Why would you do that? Why would you do this for free? What's wrong with you? Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's... It is the right place to do it, I think.

58:03 and If we can make this work, man. That really, that would be... It's on the ground real numbers. And it would. Be the tide that lifts the boats. Everyone who uses the index can say... We help you find what you really want. And we can push that popularity column that is in the downloadable weekly database. We'll just update that with. this normalized info or whatever we want to do it yeah and it man it makes that download so valuable yes Immediately, everybody can update their recommendation engines with real data. Including advertisers.

58:48 True. Think about that. And I also think we'll probably be... We are probably, I hope to be, very surprised by... What we actually find out. Yeah, that no agenda show, man. Everyone's listening to that. No buck. By the way, when I was working through the – I've been doing like – Almost nothing but this stupid model training for so long now. And as I was going through something, I was trying to figure out how some data set format stuff. one point in the conversation that i was going back and forth with um It wasn't, it wasn't clawed. It was, um...

59:33 Quinn 3.6. The 35B model. I'm going back and forth and just trying to format some data and I was like, okay. are referenced. quote, good podcasts. And it was like, well, you know, your data set. needs to be it needs to include a big cross section and it was giving examples of all the different sort of categories of podcasts. that would be good to have in the data set as on the good side of things. And one of them was no agenda. Yeah, baby. Yeah, baby. Yeah. You're in the model.

1:00:14 But you're like in its core knowledge base. I was like, wait a second, what? It must be off. Something's wrong. It has to be Diary of a CEO. Otherwise, it's not right. That's the only one that matters. Diary of a CEO. I bet we're going to find that there's some very listened to podcasts. that never get any mention in the media. Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, that's great, Dave. I'm very excited about that. I think that's awesome. I love that you're doing that. The upload limit right now, I don't even know what to put it at. Well, you have 50 megabytes, I think, was what you...

1:00:54 I don't know. Yeah. Right? I got 50 megabytes. Yeah, I just picked 50 megabytes. I picked it out of my butt. I have no idea if that's right. I don't know. I don't know, but we'll find out when somebody tries to upload one and they get an error. Can I just share something with you? Yeah, sure. So I told my robot, Robot. Prepare the OPML for Podcasting 2.0 for today. And at the top, the robot puts. Dave Shipps. First party data at the app level. New podcast index API endpoint shipped April 30th.

1:01:34 Apps with publisher API keys can now post follow count CSV uploads back to podcast index format. Feed underscore URL comma follow underscore count max 50 megabyte upload. Dave, colon. First party data at the app level is something we've never had, so we've been handicapped. This will be a critical step to getting the training data set for the new model training as well. Why it matters, colon. Up until now, podcasts indexed inferred subscriber counts from indirect signals. Apps directly know who subscribed but had no way to share that back without privacy concerns. CSV of totals threads the needle. This is my robot. I threaded the needle. This is my robot. This is my robot.

1:02:16 Nothing but net. It's like I used to have producers. I remember what it was like. It's coming back to me now. The only thing this thing doesn't do is make me coffee. The think. that the excitement about this stuff that I hear from you. I also hear it in... and other people of our age bracket like Gen Xers. Thank you. Thank you for not putting me with the boomers. Thank you. Oh, no, you're fully, you're Gen X. Yeah, I'm boomer adjacent though. It's close. It's a close call. It's a close call.

1:02:57 Yeah, you barely, yeah, you have a close call. You should be by the skin of your teeth. Kind of. But... I think the people of our age bracket are more excited about this stuff than other people because it may... reminds us of the feelings we had when we were young. When we were getting to build stuff. Blink tags. Yeah, I mean, back when we were staring at Commodore 64s, trying to get them to do stuff on the screen. And. And every new... thing that you were able to do. was exciting. It was exciting. Yeah, peak and poke. I heard Leo on Windows Weekly the other day say, he was like, I'm just finally...

1:03:46 happy that I get to talk about something other than the new phone. Yeah, yes, I understand that. He was stuck in that loop for over a decade. We all have been. We've all been. Yep, you're right. We've all been stuck in this stupid loop. Nobody cares about that crap anymore. Yes. And I think the excitement comes from just being able to actually treat the computer as a project. Yes. And that's, you know, moving to Omarchi was the best thing I ever did. Holy crap. I'm coming behind you. I'm going to be doing this. I mean, I was Windows because of the driver situation with Roadcaster. And I thank that guy who wrote those Pipewire scripts.

1:04:30 I forget his name right now. But once I had that, I was like, oh, okay, now I can just have Linux. And I forgot. I'd forgotten how much fun it is to have the computer customized exactly the way you want it. I wanted to do this. And now I have this robot, and I say, make my computer like this. Okay. Ugh! Yes, it's... fun Without the coding skills. I had lunch with John Spurlock and his wife this past weekend. Was he in town? He was, yeah. So his wife is a medical researcher. Doesn't she work at Princeton?

1:05:11 Rutgers. Rutgers, okay. Yeah, and so... She was in town at UAB for a conference, for a medical conference. He was like, hey, I'm going to be in town. You want to have some lunch with us? Nice. Awesome. So I took him out to lunch. We sat for a couple hours, had a good conversation. It was so much fun to get to see. John again. I hadn't seen him in a while. Yeah, since Dallas, I think, right? Yeah. And his wife is just a sweetheart. I hear she's a supermodel. Yeah, we were so. uh she evidently does research.

1:05:53 into um metabolism and stuff. And so I was just like, you're all in on that. Um, no, I was, I was like, I know this is going to be weird. I'm going to try not to be like a fan boy of you, but I want to ask you all kinds of questions. I need to know, help me. Should I be eating beef milkshakes? This is the number one question. What is your opinion on beef milkshake and lemon yogurt at the same time? Can we get a... Yes. How is your gut health is the next question. Yeah. So... We were talking and he was like... He was just saying how...

1:06:34 kind of demoralizing a lot of this AI Slop is... And I agreed with him. Like, you know, some days you just like you look at it all and it just kind of makes you want to. throw your hands up and go do something else. Because he was saying, well, you know, what got me into. He was saying what got him into podcasting. The beginning was just the human connection of it all. Sure, sure. Yeah, and I think... Um... I really hope that you're right. about this being a temporary situation. Because I think that... If we don't...

1:07:16 I think the... The AI stuff. really matters. It's really, it matters a lot and it's really helpful. lot of ways in our life. But what's happened is we've overshot and it's... forcing its way into areas that it has no business in. that is actually doing harm. And I don't. I hope that... That this is a temporary thing that recedes because if it's not it I think it's it's damaging long-term You know it kind of reminds me of the script kiddies era Remember that?

1:07:57 We had some pretty. Easy. It was probably PHP. uh but pearl and you know just script kitties and they would just write stuff to write stuff And they could just do it. And there was a reaction. There was a response. But it was always kind of destructive. But I think that passed. And some of them grew up to be super excellent hackers. And they're all rich on Bitcoin, but... In general, I think that's this kind of face. I really hope, I'm with you, I hope so. I think we also have a... This is going to be a little bit of an out there type of statement, but I think we also have a problem.

1:08:43 that may be coming at us with just knowing. all the answers to things. And I'm putting answers in quotes. I don't mean that they're actually true. I just mean... There- I think a little bit of mystery in our life is important. Yeah. You know, we have a problem. There's this longstanding sort of, you know, there's many sort of fundamental problems. in the philosophy of religion. One of them is, um... like the problem of evil. But another one is... hiddenness of God.

1:09:25 So. You know, this problem you could say, well, if God exists, why is... Why is he hidden from us in so many ways? Um And it's rightly defined as a... quote, problem, the problem of the hiddenness of God. But then there's this paradox, and humans are nothing if they're not paradoxical. you know, We're bothered by the hiddenness of God. God, but we also despise a person who gives us all the answers. You know, a friend of ours who... was married to this Presbyterian minister for many years.

1:10:07 She describes this moment. They got a divorce, and she describes this moment that she had in the car. Where? One of her kids from the backseat asked a question about God. And her husband gave this long, technical... Answer. about, you know... answering this question. She said at that moment she knew she couldn't be married to this guy anymore. Wow. Because she had heard this so many times and what she really just wanted him to say was, you know, I don't know. Which would have been the right answer.

1:10:52 Yeah, she wanted him to say, I don't know, son. It's a mystery. And we want. We want to know the answers and we want to see these things clearly. Um... But mystery is also, I think, a critical component. to the human experience. We need it. And so if we try to construct a world... air. whatever these things are, where technology gives us the answers to all of our questions, I don't think it's going to be a world we want to live in.

1:11:33 I don't think that'll happen. I'm already seeing. Gen alpha change. Gen Z the Z-ers. Yeah, the people younger than me, a lot of them are highly AI skeptical. Yeah. that it's not even interested. Yeah, they don't care. Not at all. Yeah. Before we... Dance on out of here. I did want to mention that Daniel J. Lewis has proposed a new namespace tag. GitHub Discussion 770. It's in the show notes for today's show. This is the contact. I think it's called Contact. In fact, you said, quote, makes a ton of sense.

1:12:16 Structured way to expose podcast contact info, host emails, social handles, business contact, currently scattered across iTunes tagged email slash owner fields with no standardization. And I think it's solid. He did this in consultation with Alex Sanfilippo. uh who uh who would call me about it and i said hey man this sounds like a tag so i want to make sure that people know about this uh let's bang it around and let's get this thing working because you know i did the town hall did we talk about that Yeah, he did. Yeah. So I did the town hall and, you know. everyone sounded on board with it. So, you know, the, of course the The industry is the industry. The podcast booking industry is waiting for this. And as usual, it'll take some fringe group nobody cares about to make it happen.

1:13:08 A fringe group. A fringe group that nobody cares about. Uh-huh. Yeah, riding the fringe. Yeah. So go take a look at that, please, people. So I think that that tag. My understanding, and tell me if you... If this is yours, my understanding is that Alex and Filippo. proposed a specific podcast colon booking tag. And then Daniel pivoted and said, why don't we make this a... a little bit broader and have a contact tag of which booking is one of the, which I think is a great idea. I think it's better. I think it is better. I think that's, and, but he, he already shows the different examples of how it could work in different.

1:13:50 different scenarios. So I think that is good. I think that's a broader way of looking at it. And I mean, I just, I think I just, oh, we just need a booking tag. That's easy. But this as a contact is broader, more usable, and even has some examples like sponsor, pitch guest, invite interview, feedback, which is interesting. Um, And that's really what contact is. But you can specify it. If it's just feedback, this is the email address. If it's sponsor-related, here's the number you call. If it's a pitch, here's the booking system we use, et cetera, et cetera. I think that's great. I think he did a good job on that.

1:14:36 When I first saw Daniel say, hey, why don't we do it this other way? I was like, oh, my God, here comes a JSON file. And then it ended up not being the case. He wrote a very good proposal. It's good. And now we have a quicker way to conduct. to know who to call on our segment of where we call scammers. Yes. Hello. I'm Sam looking for my boyfriend. We need another one of those segments, Dave. Get me one of those numbers for next show. I'll bring you a fresh one next week. All right. Thanks to people in our Value for Value project is what podcastindex.org. is you can go take a look at it you've already heard what it is where it started six years ago why we're doing it why we do it well we didn't explain why we do it for no money other than it's somehow our job and so we're doing it because we're nuts because we're nuts you know some some dude in Alabama with some chickens some dude in Texas With some guns. With some guns. With some guns. With some guns. And you can support us through Value for Value, your time, your talent, or your treasure. We love the Fiat Fund coupons. You can do that by going to podcastindex.org. Down at the bottom, there's a big red donate button. You can send it to our PayPal, which accepts a whole bunch of different payment methods.

1:15:57 Through the boosts, the booster grams with the modern podcasting 2.0 apps. And we say thank you for the 100 sats from Lyceum. That's Martin Lindus Koch. Oh, he's actually talking. Is he talking back and forth with Sam? They're doing a co-listening party. Yeah, co-listening. Okay. Let me see if I can go back. So 1776, I'm going back in time a little bit. It is Labor Day in Europe on May Day. Celebrate spring, indie podcasters unite. Here's a Liberty Boost with 1776 Satoshis. Co-listening and chatting with Sam Sethi on truefans.fm. Go podcasting. This month I will celebrate 20 years of podcasting.

1:16:38 I will wear my Podcasting 2.0 certified t-shirt on my birthday, May 25th. All the best from Martin. And so then he has a note to Sam. Sam said. With 1892 sats, next week's power will be all about Fountain's push into music and their recent music event in London. We'll also talk about their new music hosting platform and support for premium RSS. Plus, James and I will be reviewing all the new video pricing announcements from Buzzsprout, Captivate, Flightcast, Libsyn, etc. Already actioned your request for follow counts. Told you. Coming next week. Nice. Plus the contact slash booking tag. Woo! Sending you a Liverpool FC... Supercomic, oh, Liverpool Football Club was founded in 1892. Ooh, very nice. Oh, that's a good book. So what we need now, Eric Pee Pee.

1:17:27 is when we have this co-listening. That Sam is doing with with Martin we need threaded boost the grams on the helipad I'm just saying it needs to be threaded now And so Martin replies, Sam, cool beans. Did you listen to Fountain's live show? I tried to find it here on True Fans, but I listened to it for a bit on Fountain.fm. I am a synth pop guy, so hip hop rap is not my cup of tea, lol. The venue in London is a classical building, right? Okay, so they're just talking to each other and I'm reading it. I don't know what I'm doing here. co-parenting. Between the two of them, they birthed a boost. $29.97 from Silas on Linux. As long as you don't have a whitelist for proposals, can I AI generate new tag proposals in a loop every second? Good luck.

1:18:17 Yeah, please do. 1701. from Martin again. Dave, have you read the book Generation 64? How the Commodore 64 inspired a generation of Swedish gamers? Ooh, I have not read that. That sounds like something I will be reading there. Yes. 3333 from Hey Citizen, just returning value on a completely unrelated note. I hope you remember that I have over 1 billion subscribers. subscribers and should appear at the top of most searches on the index. Catch you covered. 29.97 from C. Brooklyn. Thank you very much. 55.55 from Salty Crayon. And he says he's sending some V for V for the chicken guy. There's $39.96 from C-Loss on Linux. Bark for me did that and I hit the delimiter, so.

1:19:00 It's over to you, Dave. I got some PayPals. We got 533 from Michael Kimmerer. Thank you, Michael. Thank you. Yeah, Drebscott, 15 bucks. Hey, Dreb. Thank you, Dreb. Dreb, what is your weight now? We need a weight. He used to keep me updated. I don't know how he's doing on that. No, he can just vibe code like a scale thing that'll shoot you an email automatically. Yes. Chris Bernardick, five bucks. Thank you, Chris. We got a new monthly subscriber, $10 a month. from uh who is this from Mark Van Patten. uh Says MVP, go podcasting. Yes, MVP is a maker of many fine AI slop end-of-show mixes on the No Agenda Show.

1:19:51 Oh, really? Van Tatton. That sounds Dutch. Yes, I think he is. Charles Hicks. Five bucks. Thank you, Charles. Appreciate that. We got... Cameron Rose, $25. Thank you, Cameron. Ralph Esther. $50. Whoa, I'm going to hit a baller for that. ralph appreciate that and that's all the paypals and then we've got i only show one booster gram Yeah. And that's from Common Street Blogger. Okay. It's really not a delimiter if it's just the one comma in the file, right? You know, it's a hard stop. Hard stop, yeah. 20,000 saps from Comedy Street Blogger through Fountain. He says, Howdy, Dave and Adam. Please tell your audience to subscribe.

1:20:41 Subscribe to a podcast by Daniel J. Lewis and his son, www.nontopical.com. It's about, quote, a father and son walk and talk about everything and nothing at all, unquote. have some fun topics. Give it a listen. Yo, CSB, AI Arch Wizard. still stonewalled by Adam. This was $15.43 when sent. Uh, I'm sorry CSB. It's just been crazy, man. It's been crazy. That's going to be the subtitle of CSB's autobiography. Stonewalled by Adam. Adam never got on my podcast. Daniel J. Lewis, I didn't know you were doing it. You're kids talking, huh?

1:21:23 I didn't know that either. I woke up one day and his kid's talking, doing a podcast. Daniel said that's not him. Oh. Oh, it's an AI forgery. Ah, there you go. Slop! Slopcast! He got slopjacked. Slopjacked. Yeah, somebody slop jacked his voice. Slop jack. Thank you. Show title. I needed that. At the last minute. At the last minute. Anything else or is that all it? That's it? Huh? I guess that's it. I think that's it. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I got, I mean, I've, I've got. 10 pages of stuff here, but... Why read it now when I've been collecting it for a year and a half? So that's nontopical.com, Daniel J.

1:22:10 www.nontopical.com topical.com Hmm. We discuss true ultimate power. What is... What... Man. Is this a slobcast? Have you been drinking, brother? I'm not sure I understand in any way what this is. Oh. No agenda millennial says do not google slop jacking. Okay, that's good point yeah any urban dictionary avoid it please all right brother dave thank you so much brother for all you're doing you are a you are a hero amongst men uh boardroom thank you all for being here and of course we will actually I think I'll be in Europe next Friday. We'll let you know if we have a board meeting or not.

1:23:00 Until then, have a great weekend. Yes, adios. Podcasting 2.0. Visit Podcast Index. for more information.