Episode 275: "Off The Rails"

0:00 Podcasting 2.0 for October 16th, 2026, episode 275, Off the Rails. Hello everybody, it's cold in Texas, but that doesn't matter because it's time for the board meeting The official podcasting 2.0 board meeting where we let you know what we're up to And we also find out what we're up to It's great We're kind of crazy that way. However, we are the only board meeting that can flip upside down from the halfpipe, that's for sure. I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country, and in Alabama, the man who is mentally exhausted from chaperoning his robots. Say hello to my friend on the other end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones! Why you laughing? Why you laughing? Why you roughing? Why you roughing? Why you roughing? Why you roughing? Don't roughing. Shut up. Don't roughing. Shut up. Don't roughing. You're going to have to play that clip so that at some point people understand what the heck we're even referencing. Roughing. Let me see if I have a roughing. I'm laughing because...

1:05 the uh what what are you like why are you laughing man why are you laughing um the you know that thing that i was showing you the last week that was like looking up stuff for me in real time based on the transcripts like yeah like the it's my real time jamie yeah oh yeah that thing yes yes yes Now, for some reason it says, Dave, I don't even know what it's referencing. It says, Dave, that's just AI agent scope creep. Oh, no. You ask it to delete your junk mail, and next thing you know, it's managing your 401k and your relationship with your mother-in-law. Yeah. What does that even mean? Where did it get that from? I have no idea what that means. It's bad. I don't know. That doesn't sound right. Let me see. What am I doing? What is it trying to tell me? No, this is your running thing? That's what this is? Yes. Yes, it's supposed to be like looking up things that I say. If I make a reference, just trying to figure out if like go look us up something on the Internet and see, you know, because if I say like Trump said so and so and you're like, no, he didn't. It's supposed to be like, here, go. Here's your fact check. Yeah. Oh, you know, for some reason, AIFF doesn't play on the curry casser.

2:24 Well, that is bad. Eighth. Yeah, the don't rough is an A.I.F.F. file. That's how old it is. Oh, weird. Well, let's say, what is .A.I.F.F.? Isn't that audio instructions? It's old. Features. It's very old. That's what that is. Oh, I got that. That's a little neat. A new version. gotta make a new version let me see where's podcasting 2.0 there we go let me get it let me get back into my folders here okay How are you doing, Dave? How are you doing? I'm good. By the way, excellent, excellent interview on Power. Oh, thank you.

3:12 Thank you. Yeah, you gave me... tons to think about. It's interesting you say that because I don't typically listen to my own interviews. I was there. I kind of know what I said. But I was going to listen to the... I listened to Pod News Weekly Review anyway, even though there's this... This belief out there that I only listen to the bits where I'm mentioned. Yes, this is a belief. My robot did tell me, hey, you're on the show. he was like wait what yeah that's different uh so i wanted to hear how sam because i know i know sam had to edit it and he did a great job i only heard one edit and like how could there it is i don't know what he edited out um but that but i had some observations as well why don't you go first Well, um... I think I was already, you know, I've clearly already been thinking about all of this stuff, but. It was good to hear you sort of flesh out. One second. It's okay. We're not live or anything. Sorry, I dropped my package in the floor. But I was thinking about this already, and... You had said last week that You told me that you thought you were... Disappointed that

4:45 the conversation about the MCP interface went straight to Ad removal. Yes. But missing the context of what You know, you were talking like missing your full thinking. It was not a criticism. It was I was mad at myself. I'm like, I should have avoided that. Yeah, no, I'm good. Yeah, I kind of picked up on that. But I was it was good to hear you flesh all that out. And I guess what – I guess what I was thinking about this morning as I was listening was – How the interfaces for podcast apps... I need to – the problem here is these are like non-formed thoughts. These are just like impressions, and I'm trying to put words on them for the first time. I think one thing I took away is that the podcast apps – are going to have to allow you to do more And let's let's for the moment, let's just put the I said the podcast apps. Let's just kind of put that to the side for a second. Whatever that might be. The podcast apps are going to have to

6:17 let you actually do more with the content. And this also fits into the advertising removal or whatever you want. So – I, again, this is like with your theme with Sam, a lot of this is like you have a clear vision of what the future – of the shape of the future. But you can't know specifics. We just can't know. No, I'm just talking out of my butt, obviously. This is just what I'm seeing. Yeah, you're like, well, in the future, this is going to be the case, but – Well, maybe this will help. Maybe this will help. So the one thing, my takeaway actually came after the interview and Sam and James were discussing it. And there was this moment where it's like, well, normal people won't do that. And you know how I kind of. trip over the concept of normies or normal people. Yeah, you shame me for using that word. Well, and they kind of missed the whole point of what I was saying. My whole point, not just about podcast apps, and we have one too. So, you know, we're in this, I'm thinking about this for us. is Where

7:48 will apps be at all? And so... Right now, I'm finding my robot to be very, really helpful in telling me why there's this episode of something I subscribe to because it now keeps a subscription list as well. Why I want to listen to this one, why it's right up my alley, or why this completely, again, this is the discovery part, right? This is just the engine is running, and it's still giving me better offline with Ed Zitron information. And without ads, even though I never asked it to do that, but it just considers that to be something that I want now. And I haven't told it otherwise. It gave me a give me this suggestion this morning. We just see if I can find this real quick that I was surprised by because it was it was a Dutch podcast. And I've never I don't listen to any. Here it is. Daily rundown of the biggest AI developments in Dutch. The latest episode covers a Dutch provider using AI phone calls with no auto warning, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so it just threw that at me. I'm like, oh, it actually says here, good Dutch listening practice ahead of January. I'm going to Holland in January to visit our granddaughter. You need to learn the language. And right in your AI skeptic wheelhouse,

9:21 said the robot. um that oh it's getting that from zitron well it's it's it's getting it knows you listen to better offline and so it thinks you're an ai skeptic it knows a lot more about me it has access to a lot more data sources so my point is that it's already really good at recommending things for me how how long does it take until i'm like I really just want you to present it to me right here. in you play it for me and it already floats a player you know it can float images above the chat window that's my point You know, just like the school mom that all of a sudden built an app for her that does only the things she needs from some Adobe product. So that was my overall point. And what I'm saying is normal people are going to do this. This is built for normal people. And I was like, can you just make it play better?

10:19 It will come up with ideas. And of course, it's not going to be just a podcast. It could be all kinds of different data sources. And what I'm really kind of delighted about is that this solidifies RSS. And all of our extra tags and all the metadata that is flowing out through RSS feeds. That is the win here. I mean, wow. Wherever you get your podcast, I mean, my robot just plays it for me. I can literally tell my robot, play this on my Sonos. This podcast, I don't have to connect anything. It does all that for me. And so when people think of what crazy Adam's doing and, well, normal people won't do it.

11:05 Well, yes, this is exactly what I'm trying to say. I mean, in one sense, like, Yeah, the phrase normal people won't do that, we've heard that for a long time. I mean, and sometimes that's true and sometimes that's not. Well, I think it used to be true. I think that's what's changing. Yeah, you can't always... You can't always predict. What, you know, what, quote, normal people will or will not do. And because there is no it's not monolithic. I mean, everybody's different. And I know. I know. In my own life, I need mental separation between concerns. Like, I don't – Me too, brother. That's a good statement. I need mental separation between concerns. Please stop it, honey. I don't – I want – like, I don't want to go to – here's – Some people have a, quote, combined inbox where they have four email accounts that all show up in the same thing. I can't handle that. I know. I know. Never. Never will I do that. Some people are like they you if I tell them, no, I have to have separate, distinct email inboxes that keep everything siloed into their own container.

12:37 They look at me like I'm nuts. No, I'm with you. I'm with you. I wasn't like that, but I've definitely become that way. And it's to help me keep my sanity because I can't. I'm always afraid I'm going to. Oh, I'm going to be here and I'm going to respond from the wrong thing with this wrong account. I don't trust myself. And so and I like that. So I like having a podcast app. Mm-hmm. Where I can – I'm in podcast mode. That's why I don't – that's one of the reasons I don't use things like Spotify that are like a super app that have all these things they do that offer audiobooks and podcasts and music and all this kind of – I go – I like having myself visually locked – visually connected.

13:25 My visual environment is my mental environment. And so if I'm visually in a podcast app, then I'm in listen-to-podcast mode of thinking. Mm-hmm. And so I think that at least for me, I really don't want to sort of like mash all this stuff up into a big bowl and let it spit things out to me. I don't really feel comfortable in that world, but I don't know that we necessarily have to go one extreme or the other. You know, the thing about it is. And this is kind of where I heard what you said, and I'm thinking, okay, well, there is like a medium here.

14:17 There's like a midpoint where my podcast – I can still have a podcast app. And My daily driver for a long time, even though I check out new apps all the time, but my daily driver forever has been Cast-O-Matic. Well, maybe Cast-O-Matic just needs to give me more control. And I actually think Franco's really good about doing things like this with his app. Maybe it just needs to give me more control. Like, basically, it becomes a layer on top of... The agentic things that happen within the world of podcasting. And so.

15:00 Maybe Castamatic hooks into the Podcast Index robot on the backside, or maybe it hooks into your Muse agent on the backside and lets Muse control it. Because, see, then that way… You know, I told you last week I was going to start building this ad removal specification. Yeah, you didn't get around to it, though. There's no way you had time to do that. No, I've been kicking it. I've been sort of like – Right before I leave from doing something else, I will flip over to that agent and And then just like give it an extra little hit and then I walk away. You're micro dosing. I'm micro dosing. Yeah. I keep, I pop the beach ball up in the air and then I come back for it later to catch it. You're vibe coding by micro dosing. Yes, I got it. I got it.

15:53 And I've actually gotten a very long way, a very long way by doing this. Because that's one good thing about running a local Quinn model. With a Pi agent, it hardly ever asks you any questions. It just runs for hours and days by itself without asking questions. And so I've actually gotten very far. This may take this may take a month or two. I don't know. Because I'm not going to publish anything until it's exactly 100 percent reliable. And there is a specification for removing dynamic ads from podcasts that do not. That faithfully never touch the actual content. And that's the way that – and I'm just not going to release any kind of half-assed thing. So when – the day that it comes where that thing can run through 75 podcasts and never make a mistake, that's when I'll know it's ready. But – So I've been doing this, and I thought, well, okay, think about all the permutations of this. Think about a person who wants to listen to the – okay. Let me just – I'm going to ramble here for a second, so just stop me if you need to – if I'm running on – So, My irritation with something like Better Offline is not really the ads themselves. It's

17:26 the fact that it just gives – it keeps giving me ads that are completely – A, completely irrelevant to my life. And B, repeat endlessly. So I've heard the same ad, 30-second ad, for a local Indian tribe here in Alabama. for weeks and it's it plays three or four times per episode what is the pitch of this indian tribe just want this is ad recall test do you remember what the indian is it a casino is it a it's the porch creek indians okay and what alabama porch creek indians what do they want you to buy Nothing. It's like brand uplift. That is annoying. Yeah, it's like – I can tell you exactly – the ad starts off with, what does it mean for a nation to be successful? That's exactly what she says. Here at the Porch Creek Indians, we blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's crazy. And I'm like, what is the point of this? Okay. Okay. I mean, and I've heard the same ad for like some kind of eczema medication for weeks now. And it's again, it's multiple times per episode.

18:51 And I think that this is the this is the advertising irritation thing. So I'm sort of analyzing myself and I'm saying it's not necessarily that there's ads because I listen to other shows that have ads into them and they don't irritate me nearly as much as this thing does. So like I could listen to an episode of accidental tech or whatever, and the ads are fine. I mean, I just listen through it or whatever. Sometimes I skip them. Sometimes I don't. It's not a big deal, but this particular show and a few others are just off the chain. So if my podcast app, If I could just tell it something like, hey, this show is giving me endlessly duplicate podcast ads – Please take them out or take – please take out – or if – while there's an ad playing, if it could tag it and it could say – it could tag it as Portsharek Indians and I could hit it and say, hey, never play that ad again. Or, hey, I don't want to hear any medication ads because I'm not in the medication needs business right now. My health is fine.

20:05 I don't need GLP-1s. I'm good. If you could do things like that within your podcast app – That's this nice halfway point because you still have this podcast app experience, but you don't have – but you are now beginning to – like your app is giving you services on top of the content that help to customize it for you to make it more of an enjoyable listening experience. For you, and that actually deepens your relationship with the show you're listening to, because it's not that you're saying, take out all the ads, I never want to hear another ad again. Well, I mean, some people may want that, and that's fine. That's fine. That's where – the future is going to end up there. That's where we're going to get to. But – But there's another level of this that says, you know, I – I really like this show, but... I'm not going to buy lakefront property. That's not what I'm looking for. So please don't ever let me hear this ad again. And if you're able to do it, you don't have to feel like you're suffering through this show's irrelevant ad load for you. And so like – so this is why – that's just one thing that's on my mind, an example of a way that a podcast app could actually become very relevant – To the future agentic world. And they

21:39 could eat and it can get its recommendations from your agents. Like if you have a muse or something like that, it can it could run out and say, hey, hey, muse agent, Adams muse agent. So whenever you come up with a good suggestion for a podcast he needs to have, let me know so I can pop it up and help and see if he wants to one-click subscribe in Castamatic or Podcast Guru. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think it has to be an all or nothing. Either the future has no podcast apps or everything stays the same. They're – There could be a very – Oh, please. Uh-oh. Go away. There could be a very fertile middle ground is what I'm saying.

22:29 And I think Sam was actually – I think that's where maybe he was picking up on in the interview was he was saying, okay, we need to build these agents into our thing. The Kevin and Kelly thing he was talking about. I think he's seeing that... But maybe the agents don't necessarily have to be baked into your product. Maybe your product can just speak to them. Okay. So let me jump in. You have a buzz again today. Move to Choco Love. It's only me hearing these things, so don't worry about it, but I just hear it. Oh, there you go. Fixed it. It's like the Dutch media is trying to get a hold of me.

23:12 They heard you're coming. They heard you're listening to their podcast. Well, I posted this picture of me on X. with a t-shirt and the t-shirt says jesus is my exit strategy okay and so i'm also opening a shopify store as we speak so i can sell it there's too many people who want it it was just ai people anyway um i can't just just make your own ai picture pretend you bought one um Yes, I will agree. So the perfect example is my Sonos system. I'm not having my robot play my playlist on my phone.

23:53 I want it to play on my on my Sonos system. I'm, you know, I really don't, you know, yeah, I can Chromecast and all that. But I'd really just like to say, Robot pop-up West Wing most recent episode on my TV. So I'm in complete agreement that that is not necessary and maybe not always wanted. So I think I was conflating two things. The first one is I absolutely see a future without apps. Because people will eventually, even normal people, will eventually realize the power of creating something that you just want and you want it to work a certain way. That may be more productivity, business. You know, I don't see a future for shopping apps, you know, for to-do lists or any of that.

24:42 I think that that is the first thing people will do is, oh, I wish I had a to do list that worked like this. And it will just build it for you and whether you somehow can run it. And that, of course, is going to be the problem. You know, I don't think Apple or Google are going to give up their app stores very easily. But I've already seen this power on my computer. And, you know, now go look at what Microsoft is doing with a new Surface laptop with built in with an RTX Blackwell chip built in. And you're Satya Nadella saying, oh, look, I made an app, the one I wanted in here. And it just works and it runs on my window. So this is going to come. But experientially, I'm in agreement that you don't necessarily have to recreate the functions of, for example, Podcast Guru, my daily driver, and certainly not CarPlay. I have Android Auto. All that stuff. No, that's a pain in the butt to build that. It may get easier one day, but really, all the work is already done. I'm quite happy with it. Would I want it changed? Maybe. What you're talking about is a connector. And I've been through this path now with most of the robot agents. And you need to submit and there's all this stuff and, you know, that hopefully will get better. And who knows? Maybe there will be, you

26:12 know, people will play favorites and there's going to be blocking, you know, so you can't connect to Amazon, but you can connect to Shopify. Why? Well, Shopify is smart. They want your agent to be looking for stuff and buying things for you, etc. So, yes, the connector you want is really, I would say, it's kind of twofold. You want people to be able to connect their robot to your app so the robot can then automatically use the index. Yeah. to the podcast index robot to do all the discovery stuff. Because again, we're talking about ads.

26:55 I'm just going to refuse. I don't care. The exciting thing is that it's finding things for me based upon what it knows about me. My podcast app does not, will not, should not know everything about me. However, as an input device, To send signals back to my robot, highly relevant. And then for the general experience of how it works and, you know, when video pops, all that stuff is great. I love Podcast Guru for that. Yeah. So, yes, there there it's not even an interim step. It's a very valid step of a play out experience of a real world, you know, because the minute it goes away from text, almost you're pushing things, you're pushing audio through the air or Bluetooth signal or whatever. Yeah, I think that's relevant. Um, What you don't want, of course, is you don't want to have to bake in any AI stuff into your app. You know, no. Have people connect your app to their robot and give their robot the command. Here's where you search. Here's the pod ping fire hose. Here's all the things you can do.

28:11 And then when you have something, send it back to me. Absolutely. And I think developers should be looking into that right away. Now, I was going to say, will it make them any more money? Highly doubtful. You know, I'm always looking for this. I'm always looking for how can we make money for the app developers? I'm not seeing it yet. No, I mean, I don't see that yet either, but... I mean, it's possible that there is – And... It's possible that you – if your app does this very well, that you could start by just – it gets very popular. It makes – you know, you just sell more of it. Yeah. And that's at least something. I mean, the – but if the future evolves into L402 and these kinds of things – then that's at least an easier path for the app to have a share of something. I don't know what that looks like. But let's be realistic. The podcast apps are never going to make a dime out of the stack of podcast industry money. Unless there's programmable money involved. As long as it's basically the same system that there is

29:43 now of money changing hands through advertising revenues and contracts and all these kinds of things, it's never going to happen. They're never going to get a dime. So unless – if there is an intermediary layer – then... At least like I can I can imagine if we're in the future. And no agenda was still around. Let's just use this show, a better example. A few years from now, things have progressed agentically, and this show is still asking for donations. And there's some sort of programmable money involved where Cast-O-Matic – is has gone out and connected to a user's robot. And that user that user's robot suggests podcasting 2.0 that they've subscribed to the boardroom.

30:42 And then we could somehow. Filter that back and then that user gives us a donation. We could filter that back through to Cast-O-Matic in some way. Yeah, by becoming a money transmitter? No, but I mean you see what I mean. Well, I mean it's a donate. We could donate back. It's like thank you for the traffic. Thank you for the – That's called being a money – yeah, there's – I'm sorry. There's actually rules about that. No, I mean no. What I'm saying is that user gives us a donation through PayPal, and our robot says, oh, this user came in through Castomatic. We're going to donate back to his PayPal. That's not a money transmitter.

31:26 That's just donations. Okay. Okay. Um, You seem irritated by this. Irritated? Annoyed, I guess. No, no, no, not at all. I'm just saying that that's not programmable money. That's fees with PayPal. The... The obvious thing that's going to happen is – okay. It's not irritated. It's sadness. I'm making you perpetually sad. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry, brother. No. Why do you say that? No, I'm sad.

32:07 I made you sad with my ad talk, and I'm making you sad. No, that was – well, that's not you. I'm sad that – I'm sad for the work that goes into apps. Because I just don't see the future of them. And I just don't want to lie about it and struggle to find a way where now we're donating back to apps. The future is because I've seen it. And I've been actually was working a little bit today. It's been a busy day to tell my robot when I'm when I'm when I want to send I want to send a boost to gram to this podcast just like we did on the last time just.

32:55 Send, you know, take care of it. You know, don't worry about, you know, just look at all the payments and look at the percentages to send it to them. LNURL, fine. Keysend, fine. Just send it all. Just take care of it for me. It has to be direct from the user to the splits, to the end users. That's the beauty of it. We can't be an intermediary. I mean, we can, but that's just not what it's going to be. And I am worried that apps are going to get cut out of that again. So that's my sadness. My sadness is we have a constituency of podcasting 2.0 who pour their heart into developing great apps.

33:46 And I have a hard time seeing if, you know, yes, I see what you're saying, but I'm just seeing people making their own apps. For everything. I mean, you know, we laugh about Adobe. Ha ha. Screw those guys. But it's the same problem. Yes. Let me... Let me do story time for a second. Oh, Dave, story time. You know what? You just brought a smile to my face. So, There was this – I'm trying to remember what year this was. Maybe 2000... Like... 14, 13, something like that, maybe. Yeah, that feels right. So I had this And maybe that's right. But anyway, I had this sort of career crisis. thing that happened. And what it was, was the, at the, at the time, Everything, you know, everything's moving to the cloud. And I had started my career in IT sysadmin at a large multi-state insurance brokerage headquartered here in Alabama. I had started in their

35:17 IT department. In 1997, late 97. And so I had been in... Like on-prem hardware, software, you know, everybody had, you had the day, you had your, your, your quote, server room. This is the way all businesses work. You had a server room. And so then like long about 2012, 2013 or something like that. Every – the, quote, move to the cloud was going gangbusters, and everybody was all in on your digital transformation journey or whatever they were calling it back then. And at first I sort of like ignored it and was like, well, this is not – I mean we'll adopt some cloud stuff when we need it and we won't when we don't and these kinds of things. And – but then there was like this – I don't know. I had this – Vision of the future. Where me as a sysadmin, where I was completely irrelevant because – The story I was being told every single day by the tech-oriented press and the financial press and everything was the cloud is the future. You don't need Joe. Yeah. Who needs a local

36:51 IT guy anymore? And then Microsoft said maybe in 2014, 2015 that they were going to – they had this big push where they were going to do – start doing support directly to small businesses. And the story around that was, well, who needs IT people anymore? Because – Who's better at managing Microsoft's products than Microsoft? Right. And there was this whole narrative that lasted for a decade of why IT people and sysadmins are just not going to – are just the future. You guys – you all need to go find like a different career path because we don't need you anymore. Nobody is running email servers on their system, so all you Exchange admins, y'all go get a different job. Learn woodworking. Learn to code.

37:45 Yeah, exactly. Learn to code, things like that. And so I had this – I really had like a mini freakout for a couple of months. Like it sort of – it finally got into my head, and I'm like, my job's over. The future is like everybody's just – When businesses start, they're just going to launch a few servers in the cloud, subscribe to Office 365, and they're done, and I'm never going to be needed again. And that turned out to be completely not true. Right. And so – and now we – if anything, we have a shortage of IT people, and we have – we've had a chronic shortage of IT people for a long time because what really happened was things became hybrid. And – There's lots of reasons why local things run... There's lots of reasons to have a thing local, and then there's other reasons to have a thing in the cloud.

38:48 And as soon as you split that, now you have complexity because now you have to have those two things talk to each other. But you don't want to give up this great thing over here that runs really well locally, and you don't want to give up your great thing over here that runs really well in the cloud locally. But they really do have to connect. And as soon as you have a system like that, you have to have a person who understands the way all this stuff works that can actually make it function properly and well and get the business running. And so I guess what I'm saying, like. I was panicking, starting thinking about other jobs, other careers. And – but I think what that taught me was that, like, the – it's not that these visions of the future are wrong. It's that they're incomplete. They just don't take all of the considerations of human nature into account. And while it is possible that there's going to be a future with like no podcast apps, um, I'm not so sure that – I just don't think it's very likely because I think what happens over time is it takes – there's this lag period where it takes – Time for people to understand their own use case for these things, for these technologies.

40:14 And the podcast apps – The... Like I don't envision myself – I don't really want – to not to listen to podcasts in something other than a podcast app. But if my podcast app just stagnates and never changes, maybe something else in the future would entice me away from that mindset. But if my podcast app continues to give me more and more options – Going forward to where I can feel more in control and I can feel like I'm a part of this new thing that's happening. Then I don't really have – I don't feel a big pull to change. So, like, I think that...

41:01 Whoa, whoa. That's my buzz. Yeah, your buzz is big. There you go. Oh. Oh. We got one of these days we'll find the source of this. I don't know what it is, but. So I think there's something like, you know, like, like, you know, Fountain and Podcast Guru and Castomatic and TrueFans, like, they, these are apps that, you know, are run by very, very smart people Who like to be on the cutting edge of things. And I think that they can integrate a lot of the things that we love about. About agentic capabilities into their app and that makes you want to go use the app. Um, So the reason I was talking about advertising so much is because I think it's such – it's this thorny issue. It's not that I think that is the main issue. It's that it's such a watershed-type in-your-face annoyance. And I went back – remember a few months ago I talked about – I brought up this idea of what if we could come up with some sort of protocol where anytime I download an episode, I could ping out to some service. I was talking about Daniel J. Lewis' Chapters API. I could ping out to his

42:32 API, have it generate a chapter set for me and bring it back for this episode. And what it was doing, my idea was give the apps the ability – To augment the content content that I that it's getting on its on its app for my benefit. Well, this is valid. This is the this this is like that on steroids. I agree. I agree. And it's simple. It's simple to implement. You've got to become a connector in all of these rope, all these robots. which is not simple. It's like submitting to 10 app stores. It's a pain in the butt. And the process is, of course, managed by AI on the other end. So... But why can't – so you have a robot. You have a Muse agent. Why can't your Muse agent expose some sort of interface or post a file somewhere or something like that? As long as it's a standardized format, Castomatic can then go and just look at that. There's a setting in Castomatic that says, here's the URL of my agent.

43:53 And Castomatic, every time it wakes up, it goes and checks with your agent and says, hey, give me a bunch of information to go on. Is there any new podcasts? No, you're right. But in robot land, that's called a connector. So you have to connect. It doesn't just mean I've done this like, oh, set up a cloud flare. Oh, okay. So it did a test for me on Cloudflare. Cloudflare, you can set up like a 10-minute website that just works for 10 minutes and then it goes away. And I did that for a couple hours and then it was like, oh, I can't do that anymore. So on your own system, no problem. But these cloud systems, these cloud-based systems like RockBot and Muse and more to come, you know, ChatGPT, funny enough, was the hardest. You know, it's like you got to upload your left testicle. Okay, here it is. It's hard to do over the Internet. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it has to be, I'm just saying, I'm just giving, I'm, I'm leapfrogging saying the process is You have to allow people to connect their robot to your app. That's it. What about this? And I'm thinking of ways to get around that. Okay. So what about your Muse agent just knows, here's an object storage URL.

45:17 And I want you to always post the latest, your latest findings about podcasts. in this specific format to this url and then you just point castamatic at that url well i can try it i'm just saying that these these uh These robot companies, they're getting cautious with that. You know, if you want to access a website, it pops up a card now or always allow, you know, and that seems to pop up a lot. You know, even if you say always allow, well, this is a little different URL. OK, always. I'm just saying that the process I'm with you. Of course, technically, I can see it. The process is become a connector. Jump ahead, just become a connector. Once you're a connector, that's like Sonos, the same thing. You have to go into Sonos. You have to approve it. Then it connects. You have to build a little app on Sonos, developer. It's fairly simple.

46:20 The robot walked me through it. But that's how it connects then. And then once that connection is made, it's good. There was no standard connection already allowed. So you still have to make that connection for these robots to actually do it properly. See, I thought that the whole point of the Muse thing was that it allowed you to do – It allowed more flexibility. So that you could tell it something like always post your latest podcast recommendations or whatever to a to this URL. And here's your object storage keys. possibly... Possibly. But, you know, remember, we want this to be done by, quote, normal people.

47:08 And the way it works now is connect to my Gmail. OK, connect. And it says affirm, confirm with your Gmail confirmed. OK, do you want your calendar? Yes, confirm. This is the process. I'm just saying that's the process. It's not it's not horrible. But you have to go through it. Just like submitting to the App Store, you have to become a connector. And, you know, when one or two are there, everyone else will jump in and everyone will have a connector. I'm just saying that that's the process. Become a connector. Mm-hmm. And technically what you're saying is exactly the same thing, but it has to go through the – that's just what they call it. They call it a connector. If I look at – let me see. If I look at Muse, let me see. What do I have? Um... Uh, Where's my... my settings here, settings, okay. Connectors. There you go. And it has preset connectors. It has Google Drive, Instagram, WithThings, Gmail, Google Calendar, Plaid, That's what you want. You want Plaid.

48:17 This is the perfect example. Castomatic is always the canary in the coal mine. That's why I keep coming back to it so often. It's because it has no back-end servers. It's purely an on-device app. I understand. So it can't be a connector because there's nothing to connect to. It has to do the connection. It has to connect back to the agent. Yeah. Yeah. And so if that's like, well, we podcast be something we describe. We can build that spec. We can we can become we already are a connector now. I mean, I don't see us pre selected here. You know, there's no let me see if we have podcast. Let's see. No connectors found. Yeah.

49:01 So I am connected through Muse because it's just doing, you know, HTTP calls to the MCP server. So a podcast index could become a connector, a general connector, and you say, okay, select you know, select podcast gurus. So, like, people are still going to have to select something. See, it just doesn't fit. It doesn't. My idea doesn't work. No, your idea. Bingo. Your idea doesn't work because that's not the. I mean, it may in the future if everybody's. If everybody has their own robot and it does exactly what they tell them to do, but these guys, they're for a whole bunch of different reasons, are going to... You know, put gates up to make sure that you know what you're doing or they can warn you like, well, you're connecting to this thing, you know, you're connecting to to plaid. So, well, you know, that means that your robot can look at your bank account.

50:02 You see my point? Well, I think you just – my problem though here is that you just described how your future vision doesn't materialize because you're saying that they're going to block everybody. No, no, no. And if Muse is – Go ahead. If Muse is – The way that you're envisioning future things to evolve so that normal, quote unquote, normal people begin to interact with things like podcasting through an agent. But if that agent makes them jump through a whole bunch of hoops to do anything like this, well, then that's what good is it? My future is where everybody has their own agent running on their own hardware and it does stuff and you're in total control. That's the future future. This interim step is where everybody has to go. And a lot of people might never leave this interim step. They may feel very comfortable renting an agent that runs in the cloud and it's not on their own device. We're already seeing with Microsoft, just as the first example, hybrid. So that's what they're saying is hybrid. We believe most of this stuff works. that you're going to do locally on your own computer it'll build literally i was just watching nadella say this you build your own apps the apps you want locally on your computer sometimes you need something from the cloud and otherwise it's running on your computer so i see that as the future i don't know how quickly that's going to come to handheld devices but in the

51:34 meantime I'm just saying the connector is how you do it today. And this this see this idea is like I keep hearing this. It's like everybody's going to build be able to build their own apps, but you can't even upload a file to an object storage. Like, how is this? I'm trying to make sense out of these two narratives I'm being told. No, I'm talking about a future that isn't here for everybody right now. It's here for me. I'm building my own apps. But yeah, I'm not a normal person. But it's going to come. But today, right now, we are in baby shoes, training wheels.

52:14 Nathan said Muse will either let normies listen directly in the app or it will host an RSS feed for them to listen wherever they want. See, I just don't think that's enough. I don't think that's enough. To me, it's like... But we're arguing over implementation as it is today, not over what is going to come. What's going to come is going to be a very different world. But today, if you want to get started, just add your app. as a connector and then you can tell that person's app the robot to go connect to the podcast index robot to do all the calls and then you have a two-way street With feedback from the app and stuff going to the app. I mean, it's exactly what you're saying. It's just. No, it has. But it's not. It is. It's not. It is exactly the same.

53:05 False. Well, fact check false. What do you mean? It's because what I'm saying is I'm trying to say the full vision of what you are. What you fleshed out. The full vision of what you flashed was I have this thing that can do – that will do whatever I tell it to. There's this thing operating on my behalf where I can just go and tell it, hey, I like this kind of thing, and it just – gets it for me and does things for me and all these kinds. It's operating constantly in the background on my behalf. The podcast index MCP, as amazing as it is, it is not operating on Nathan's behalf. It is general. It's general. And what I'm saying is the only thing that's ever going to operate on Nathan's behalf is Nathan's robot. What do you mean? What do you mean?

54:09 It's not the podcast index robot does nothing but proxy the API calls. My robot is doing what I want. Right, and yes, that's what I'm saying, but I'm saying in order for the app, the podcast app, to have the benefit, to have the power that it needs. That it needs to be able to connect to the robot. It needs to be able to connect – to nathan's robot not the podcast no but that's what i'm saying that's what a connector is you connect your robot to the app well and right but what i'm saying is there is no connector back to castomatic All Cast-O-Matic has to do is say, well, okay, because you mean because Cast-O-Matic, well, even that, I don't see why that's a problem. No, it is a problem because, okay, you're right, Cast-O-Matic, if there's no server side on the app itself, That... can talk to or can be talked to, I see the problem. Now, there's a possibility that... But this is OS level that the robot can interact with other apps, inter-app communication. That's already happening because it can read notifications. But that is another thing you have to set up. It's not out of the box and for good reason. So Castamatic is a is the outlier, but it

55:40 is also the most important outlier. I understand what you're saying. But let's just stick for a second with Nathan needs to connect his app to his robot that can be done today. No matter no matter what else he connects to. You know, I'm done with the boardroom. Why? The boardroom is so full of crap. Why? This is AI 2.0. How about that funding tag? How's that coming along? It's all robot now. You know what? We've been talking about nothing but podcasting since we started this episode. That's all we have talked about. The future of podcast apps. This is fundamental. We're talking about potentially building a protocol that lets podcast apps talk to their agents. I mean, what else do you people want? I almost cussed.

56:34 I'm not going to do it. It's because I'm flipping back over here to my to my my showrunner thing. Yeah. So I can so I can look up stuff on the Internet. Well, these are. But what you're seeing is people who are hurt and disillusioned and who hate A.I. because they also know what's coming. We're trying to find... Great solutions. And if you just want to say, oh, it's AI 2.0, well, check the calendar, dude. This is what's happening in the world. We are at the beginning of an amazing, amazing golden age where I believe people will have a lot of leverage and a lot of power. Time to grab land now. That's what's going on here. I mean, in case anyone hadn't noticed, the amount of independent app usage is going down rapidly. Why?

57:38 Well, I don't know. But maybe we should try and offer something that other companies can't offer. Maybe we should just not ever talk about AI. And watch all of the independent podcast apps disappear off the face of the earth because of AI, and then we'll all just look at each other and wonder what happened. Or we could actually try to face the future as it stands, as it's coming, and build on top of it so that all this remains in some sense. It's no sweat off my balls. Johnny D. Straight from heaven. But this is my point. You can't laugh one day about what happened to Adobe and then not think about your own backyard, which includes Adam and Dave. Yes, it includes all of us. Yeah, it's all of us. And here we are talking about what we can actually do. Anyway, whatever. I'm useless. I was I was talking to a friend of mine this week who is has been a. a highly successful sales team. manager in the tech world for many, many years. This person has worked for every... Silicon Valley, big Silicon Valley name that you know. And they... At

59:13 every... They just started working for a new company back in April and inherited a team of salespeople. And so – We were talking last night. And they were saying that the... The amount of stuff that they are replacing internally, they have stopped hiring out all kinds of consulting work. to like the big four consulting firms like Deloitte and all these kinds of things. This is all because they're doing it all with AI because they used to have All of this work that they could not process on their own, and it was more cost-efficient to just hire it out. And now they've brought it back in-house, and they're able to put a small team on it, and they're able to essentially do months of work in weeks.

1:00:19 Mm-hmm. And because most of it is just compiling data and just moving data around. Well, this is I mean, we're talking about major economic shifts that are about to happen. If things are happening in the in the in the economy. Up in the billions of dollars range. Do we think that are we crazy enough to think that it's not going to affect podcast apps? Give me a break. Of course it is. Things are going to things are changing and they are going to change. And I just would rather I would rather actually I would rather meet it head on. And discuss it so that we can at least give podcast app developers the chance to adapt their apps in a way where people still find them very useful. Whatever we have to build to do that, we need to do it. Let's do it. You're the one that's getting mad, not me. I'm talking to the world. I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to the world. I'm just saying that like this – because the thought of – Yeah, I want to do – of course. Let's do a phase nine of the namespace and let's throw the contact tag in. Let's fix key send. And I've got a few tags that I think are ready to go, and I want to do that

1:01:51 work. Let me just say – let me remind us of something. We started Podcast Index for a reason, and it's going to turn out to be a great reason because RSS is going to be more important than ever with, in my opinion, with what is coming. Tags are going to be super important for what is coming. As I scoffed about AEO, the ask engine optimization is going to be a real thing. And so when robots are already running around and when they're looking for a certain person on the podcast and you've got a person tag, you're going to be found, which has always been my mission here is discovery, discovery, discovery, reasons to get to get things that I want to hear. Making that work is a part of the podcast app developers, which I still believe is very relevant, as I just said, you know, Sonos, television, podcast app, all of that. Stay ahead of the game. We're going to be great. We may have nobody who's going to donate to us anymore, but we'll be great. We'll have servers. We'll have servers. We can't pay for it, but we'll have servers. Well, hosting companies are going to be great. That's still going to be needed. It feels like we just pontificate about what could happen with AI. There's great things we can do with it now, so let's do them. I agree. I understand that, Eric. I think – but what – What

1:03:31 did we do with the namespace? What did we all collectively do with the namespace? We got out ahead of things and created something that was brand new. We created a thing – we created micropayments and transcripts and all these things that had never existed before in podcasting. And that's what I'm saying we should do right now. I'm saying that we should do things like – here's another idea. that I had. Sam has been talking about for a long time About using activity streams and activity pubs. He has always wanted a future where podcast actions or activities are – where they ripple through the Fediverse. And what has always been the big wall that's kept that from happening is mastodon. Mastodon does not show custom activity streams or custom activity pub types. It doesn't show them up in their native format. It just sort of like transmogrifies them into a note is what it's called. So everything just becomes a note. Well, we have now this power. to perhaps change that. Yes. Maybe we can begin to roll out new Fediverse compatible software I built the

1:05:05 AP, the Activity Pub Podcast Index Bridge a few years ago, the hard way by hand. I built that thing, and it works. Why don't we begin to actually publish some of these – why can't apps begin to actually publish some of this Activity Pub stuff? In its native format, and then we will build Mastodon-like software that layers on top of it and actually shows it in its native format. And what do we do with that? Well, I mean, that could be something that podcast platforms bake in or podcast apps bake into their stuff. They could subscribe. Cast-O-Matic, let's just keep rolling with Cast-O-Matic since it's the canary in the coal mine. Cast-O-Matic could bake ActivityPub into itself where it shows native content. native format activity streams coming out of podcasting. into in its own interface so one of the things you said in sam's i'm sorry i'm talking so much i just you gave me a lot of ideas no keep going i like it one of the things you said in your uh In your interview with Sam is that newsletters are so critically important to donations for podcasts and keeping people interested. That's one sub stack. That's why they're on a roll. And...

1:06:28 Maybe your podcast app If the if, you know, people are getting email fatigue and people are beginning to filter out a lot of these things in emails, which I'm doing, I've really I've really gotten a handle on my email and filtering out a ton of stuff now. Maybe the podcast app becomes a – Sort of more than just a podcast, but a news feed into your pod into the podcast world that you are interested in. And so that your newsletter is not just coming through your email where it's going to land in your spam box. It's also good that maybe your newsletter comes through your podcast app. I mean, true fans does that already. But but if we had the activity pub section of that, it could be posted as an act as as a map as an activity pub. Yeah. Object on the Fediverse and you're following your podcast as an activity pub actor.

1:07:23 And now you get the the the the newsletter as well. I'm just brainstorming stuff. Mm hmm. I'm brainstorming ways that podcast apps can keep themselves relevant because, like you said, they are podcast, independent podcast app usage is declining. Yeah. So whether or not AI is the future, regardless of that, something's wrong and something needs to change. So we got things that are – we have things that are more – what I'm saying is I think we have things that are more structural right now than just namespace design. Because namespaces are great, but if we already have – Some ability, and we do, new phones have models on board that can hook in and do some small model type stuff already. If they can themselves begin to figure out these things like – Yeah, what the activity is and what that means for your behavior. For what you want and what you... So, for instance, if I skip ahead on all those ads... Yes. My robot would know to do that automatically. Or... If the and this is, again, why I'm saying that the podcast namespace

1:08:55 may not be. As high on the priority list right now as this other stuff is if your podcast app sees that there is not a person tag listed in your feed, but it can still use its local model to go figure out who these people are. It doesn't matter anymore. We already saw this with transcripts. Transcripts are being done on device now. Yep. It's great that there's a transcript tag, but it's now become almost irrelevant. Look at how fast that went. Yeah, it went from – within a year, it went from transcript tag is awesome to transcript tag is completely unnecessary. Mm-hmm. That's right. And the only people that care to put a transcript tag in their feed by hand anymore are going to be like the .00001% of people who still code by hand.

1:09:48 Yes, not normal people. Yeah. And so like I'm saying – yeah, exactly. What I'm saying is like we need to figure out what the future looks like. Not the future. Sorry. I'm sorry. We need to figure out what right now looks like. for podcast, indie podcast apps to try to get some traction back and make these things better. Because the other flip side to this is the big apps, they're not doing very much either. Spotify's not doing anything in that regard. And the beauty of us, collectively, is that What we do with the podcast index and how we tie into all of that, we do for all apps. Apple can't do that. Well, I mean, technically they can. They're not going to. They're always going to promote their app. Always. Forever. They're always going to promote Apple TV. Forever. That's their system. That's how they live. So we can promote for everybody and make it work for everybody and bring that a huge leap forward, I think. But be careful because Apple is going to tie in their local AI models to their devices, and they're going to give it all kinds of priority, and then we'll sue them for 10 years, and then we'll get access to it. So you might as well hook your people in now. I apologize up front. I'm sure Sam is half a bottle in and boosting away. I thought that if I upgraded my Start9 StartOS embassy server

1:11:22 to 4.0, which I was quite excited about because it includes networking, I thought, well, I can do that in the morning, which I did. I didn't realize that it has to go through completely changing the entire file system. And I'm just now booting up LND server, which is taking quite a while. So I'm not getting any booster grams of anything. Oh, well, I mean, I got our I got I'll get as many boosts as I can. OK. I don't know. Where's the stupid bus? It's a USB cable somewhere near your mic cable. Something is near your mic cable, and it sounds like USB. It never...

1:12:04 stays on long enough for me to actually trace it. Because the minute you move... I get the roadcaster up and wave it around in the air and it doesn't change anything. No, it's something with your mic cable. Your mic cable is running next to a dimmer or a USB or LMNOP. It's doing... My mic cable is running through every electronic. Yeah, well, there it is. There it is. There's nothing it's not touching. Nailed it. I mean, it is literally touching everything in this room, I think. Open UI. Oh, okay. Did this work? Let me see. Is my Albie hub back up? Oh, LND, not waiting to start. RPC servers is not available yet. I got you. Okay. Well, that sucks. Why is it taking L&D so long to start up? Well, it's not the podcast index node, so it should be quicker. Mm-hmm. I don't know what it's doing. I have no idea. Why log?

1:13:09 Oh, logs. Whoa! Whoa! What do I see in here? Waiting to start. RPC service is not available. Why is it not available? Oh, it had to migrate the SQL schema to version 1. Six? Oh my gosh. That sounds fun. No, that sounds bad. That was very bad. Okay. The... Have you heard... Have you heard the Dick and Paul show? No, can't say that I have. It's pretty good. The Dick and Paul show? Oh, man, this is really bad, Dave. What am I doing? Okay. Let's see.

1:13:53 Okay. oh my gosh i got turned the i'm gonna turn the noise gate off for this this is too fun oh it went away don't move it's because i muted myself so okay so now we know it's definitely the mic it's the mic yeah so if i mute myself it's the mic yeah of course Wait, is it? Let me unplug the mic again. I'm plugging the mic. Yeah. Well. What is going on? What is this happening?

1:14:36 Now it won't stop. And I'm blinding myself because the lampshade fell off the lamp. Okay. Now it stopped again. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Okay. Ah! We're off the rails! Okay, alright. I'm back. The lamp kept self-destructing. I don't know what's going on. Okay, I'll have to. I'm going to have to reroute this mic cable or something after the show. That's the problem. That's the problem. The Dick and Paul show, do you remember Dick Costolo? Yeah. The Twitter CEO. Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

1:15:16 After he was the first guy after Dorsey, wasn't he? Yeah, that dude is funny. Oh, really? Yeah, so it's him and this guy named Paul Kudrowski, who's an economist. And the show is them just roasting people. stuff all the time about Silicon Valley and that kind of thing. It's worth a listen. Okay. I'd like to stick it in our pod roll. I'll check this for a second. I'd like to just cram that one right in the old pod roll. Subscribe to the Dick and Paul Show podcast. Boom, done. Didn't even have to think about it. Sorry. Didn't have to search or anything. I, um, Let's see. So I probably don't have much time left, but – I think what I've been saying – so Christopher Issen, the Swedish trickler, has been doing a lot of curation work on the index. Yes. He is nuking feeds at an astonishing rate. He is a good man. He is a good man. Yes. He's doing the Lord's work there. Yes. He has scripts doing all sorts of important things. And so – I guess my question is, are we doing enough? for the podcast ecosystem with this, with how like we, we, I would like to let people know because I sent a whole batch of feeds to

1:16:48 Podbean this week. I mean, these are just egregious spam feeds. That were like, you know, just like full movie downloads of Blu-ray. Yes. How is he? How is he? Is he searching for those? Or how does he do it? Is he watching the fire hose? I don't know. I think he sent me. I have not checked my signal yet, but I think he sent me some details. I got to go check them. I'm going to check the PP monitor. I'm still upright. I'm still on this thing. Oh, yeah. Curry compound. I'm still. Yeah, I'm still a participant. OK, good. Yeah, you're in the you're in the mesh. Yeah. Warm embrace. I am. I'm moving around in that mesh. Very cool. Well, I'm going to be.

1:17:40 I got news coming on the PP on the on the pod, the pod ping front. Hopefully by the next show, I will be... Publishing some different – some things on a – it will not be on the main Podping topic, a gossip topic, but it will be on a side topic. So that you can, you'll be able to subscribe to some stuff that is index specific. So I will have more to reveal. Oh, revealing stuff. More to come. I like it. I like it. Yep. So that will be... Chad F. had a really... sweet post on Twitter. Mastodon, he was like, you know, I wish we could help Dave more. Um, it's coming, Chad. I'm going to help. I don't want anybody to think of this as helping me. It's more just, uh... A lot of the things I'm doing right now are the building blocks for how this will become the work that we all do. So it's not going to be helping a certain person or whatever. But I'm really grateful for the people who do help, like Christopher and Chad and Eric and David Marzal. Oh, he does a ton of stuff.

1:19:00 Nathan. I mean, just everybody who pitches in and does things. I'm very appreciative for everybody. But hopefully what... In the next few months, this will will be able to put the stuff in place so that everybody can so we can just all do this together. So we don't have to like there won't be one person running the whole ship and then everybody has to help that person because we don't want that. Right. The case. Right. So if we can distribute it. But I'll have I'll I'll lay that out more next week. And but but in the meantime, like and that the spam topic is part of that is why I brought it up. I'd like to push things. You know, Chris is doing all that work. But then can we do more? I mean, is there a way we can distribute this so that. Like, can we get an efficient system for how to label spam and then report that back to the hosting company?

1:19:56 I want everybody to be thinking about this because we don't just care about podcast apps. We also care about the podcast ecosystem as a whole. It doesn't help anybody in the podcasting 2.0 or podcasting in general if Podbean has 500 spam feeds on their system. Are they the worst offender? No, no, not by any means. But it's really spread. It's really equally spread across the whole system. I just wonder if anybody has any bright ideas about how we can make that – We have that information. We see that it's spam. It takes us a while to recognize it as such. But... You know, I don't know, Eric, maybe you talk about like Jev or something like that. I don't know if anybody wants to code something like that up. Let's let's try to figure out.

1:20:51 Well, I can help. I'm going to have a lot more time on my hands end of the month. You want to say a quick you got anything to say about that? I mean, like I heard I heard that you were ending at the end of the month. 29th. One show after the 19th anniversary. Okay. Yeah. End of an era. end of an era i totally understand i totally understand where you're coming from i mean if i mean if something happened to you i mean i wouldn't be doing this show with anybody else i mean the show is the people oh if you're gone right away i got eric pp in here in a heartbeat that mother Are you still there? Yeah. Oh, I thought you left. I got so angry I stormed out. Rage quit.

1:21:41 Yeah. Yeah, it was time. It's time. It makes sense. Yeah. It makes sense. We got customers with needs now at Godcaster. uh yeah we do yes we do they got needs man i was like okay yeah i'm meeting with people like they got needs okay we can do that for you yeah one day one day we need to like we build a lot of stuff in godcaster that i think other people would be interested in and uh That's really cool, but we never talk about it here because it doesn't feel appropriate. But one day we should just talk about it because I think people would find it pretty neat. Like the fractional program director and all that stuff. That stuff's cool, man. Yeah. It's going to be interesting times. Paul's coming in town Sunday. He's coming through Birmingham. Me and him are going to eat some supper. Oh, that's cool. So I can't find... Oh, I see. It's the what's the name of the show?

1:22:44 The Dick and Paul show. The Dick and Paul show. Dick Costolo said that he... He had to name it something different on YouTube because YouTube rejected his name. Because I had just yelled at the robot and said, and it transmorgified it to subscribe to the Deacon Paul show. I'm like, no, no. I'm like, what is this? So now it's hearing me differently. Oh, no. It's Curry yelling at me. What kind of religious language is he using? Dick must be deacon. This, by the way, this Liquid Studios thing... This is the dumbest thing. Well, this is the stuff that you can do at home. I mean, please. Yeah, okay, I got it. I'm not believing for one second. Did they build that entire Inception Point AI just as a proof of concept to really go and build a video converter? No. Give me a break. No, not at all. This is a VC pivot is what this is if I've ever seen one. Big time. Yeah.

1:23:53 Whatever. Yeah, I don't care. That's exactly the kind of stuff. You can say, oh, turn this podcast into video and just assemble some stuff. My thing here at home will do it, run it on the Asus. Okay. I promise you we built 25,000 synthetic feeds on Spreaker getting ad revenue, but it really wasn't the point. No, it was – We really just wanted to build a video converter. So now we can have a video version of PodNews. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Which, of course – Blow that smoke somewhere else. Nobody watches. We need to thank some people. Is it that time already? What time are we? Oh, my goodness. Yes. Well, I have nothing. I have.

1:24:35 I'm sorry. I'm looking at. Let me take a look at my where I'm at right now. Oh, OK. So L&D is running. Mm hmm. But of course, I lost all my channels because it was down so long. And AlbiHub is running. That's good. Hold on. and helipad is running i think hold on let me just check for a second do i have any channels left there's my channels let me channel wallet node node yes no i got a pew pew i got a node pew pew pew came back amazing So you're back in business. Who runs Pew Pew? Who runs Pew Pew Pew? I think it is. Well, thank you very much. I mean, that thing came back. That's astounding. Now let me take a helipad. Task required. What? Set reset password. Okay, hold on.

1:25:38 Uh... Oh, brother. Okay, I'll need that password really to log into Helipad. Okay, let's see if I got it. Maybe I got something in. Maybe it worked. Hold on. Let's check it. Check it. I'm checking it. Here we go. Password. Stay logged in for 30 days, which we know never works. Now I'm. Ooh. But it's somehow it's oh, there we go. Oh, is it going to now fill up the I literally am getting 29th of May, 30th of May. Oh, bro. This is going to pew all the way through to October. Now, are you just going to get a machine gun of pew? That's that's exactly what's happening. I don't hear any sound for some reason, but. Yeah, it's now it's it's now it's a June. Oh, June 2023. Okay, well, we'll let that Lord, we'll let that sit for I guess it didn't migrate the, I don't know, helipad, air PP, what is repopulating?

1:26:42 Yeah, that'll take quite a while for that to repopulate. All right. You got to read them, Dave. I'm just trying to get my buzz to go. No, the buzz is, you know what? We're just going to live with the buzz. We're just going to love the buzz. Wait, maybe I found it. I may have found it. No. I know you still hear it, but it's much less than it was. No. It was blowing your head off. No, it's pretty much the same. No, well, I could hear it, but I don't know. It's back. Okay, all right. I'm going to reroute the cable, I promise. Oh, it's okay. It's fine. I'm happy. Let's see. What am I doing? Oh, yeah. Oh, PayPal. Yeah, okay. PayPal. PayPal.

1:27:26 We got Timothy Voice, $10. Thank you, Timothy. Thanks, Timothy. Michael Hall, $5.50. Gene Liverman, $5. Thank you, Gene. Todd Cochran, straight from heaven, $30. Thank you, Todd. Jeremy Gerds, $5. Derek J. Visker, $21. Thank you. Best name in podcasting. Paul Saltzman, $22.22. Thank you, Paul. Silicon Florist, $10. Thank you. Christopher Cowan, Thanks, Chris. $5. Terry Keller, $5. Damon Kasajak, $15. And Chris Riedel, $5. $20. Thank you.

1:28:08 Thank you all very much. This makes a difference. You keep machines running with that. Now that we've integrated our Linodes, like I'm an admin on yours, you're an admin on mine, which is why we get all those emails. So the other day I was... I was looking in a different email box. I'm like, holy crap. Why do I have to pay $800 to Linode? Okay. surprise like what is going on what happened i'm sweating i'm like where does this come from something's going awry my agent has set up something i don't know what's going on you've pushed 400 terabytes of data this month oh it's podcast index oh okay Got it. What is our spend right now? I think it's about, it's close to nine, right? It's up there, yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. And that's without, you know, the podcast index.social is 200 something.

1:29:09 Is it $200 now? Yeah. Well, unless you want me to start deleting the database, you're paying for database and for searchability. People do like to search, and otherwise old messages go away. Is that a big deal? I mean, how old? That just seems like a lot of money to pay for a month. Well, we can have a meeting. Okay. I mean, $200? Yikes. And you're paying for that out of your own pocket? No, no, no. We switched that. We switched that. Okay. We switched it. I feel like we could bring that down. Well, you know...

1:29:58 It all depends on how many what kind of history you want to keep. I mean, I don't feel like... You're preserving... something for future generations to see how this stuff came about. It's not yet on GitHub. Does that even matter? Because people are going to make it up anyway. Because the history of how podcasting came about is perfectly preserved. But people say Adam Carolla did it. Yeah. Well, where is it perfectly preserved? On scripting.com or something. Yeah, exactly. He only has no HTTPS, so he's no longer future-proof. No one can see the history. Yeah, it's perfectly preserved for people who use the Lynx browser in the terminal. Oh, yeah, there's Daniel J. Lewis. Yeah, we'll move to Slack. There you go.

1:30:52 No. Discord. Discord. No, I think podcast index.social is part of the success. It's part of the formula. It's been fantastic. Anyway, it was stuff to talk about. Stuff to talk about. Yeah, we'll have to have a meeting. True Fans Anonymous stuff, 39 sats, 406 sats, 13 sats, 220 sats, 7 sats, 406, 13. Thank you, True Fans Anonymous people. Drev Scott, 774 sats. He says... Anyone else notice the Podfriend V3 test flight drop this week? Oh, I don't have the test flight. I don't have Apple stuff.

1:31:34 Boost. I'm checking. I'm checking to see if I have it. Test. I've got too many things in TestFlight. I got Buzzsprout stuff. I got Godcaster stuff. I got I'm off the chain. Got a podcast guru. I got Overcast, Castomatic. Oh, there it is. Podfriend. Yes. V3, V3, V3. All right. I'm checking it out. Yep. I got V3. Let's see. What is what is old Martin say? Okay. Cross device resume playback position from another device is no longer dropped. New episode notifications podcast with two RSS sources now merge. Don't know what that means. Search is more resilient when the podcast director is rate limiting and podcast owners duplicate listings now hide. All right. I'll give it a shot. Jody at Fountain.fm. 3,154 sats. Thank you, Jody.

1:32:34 Jody says, Dave, that was a good interview on Pod News Weekly Review. I'm looking forward to hearing more future plans for community replication of the index. Here's a little value as I empty out my fountain wallet. Well... It's good timing because we'll be talking about that hopefully in the next few weeks. Yay. Chad F. Hey, Chad, 185 sets. He says, this show's lost the plot. What was the plot? We had no plot. I'm at June 2023 on Helipat. Yeah, you got a few years ago. Helipat. Forever. We need a fast forward in Helipad. I do like the new Start OS. It's pretty good. Now they built in wire guard and everything, so you don't have to be reliant on Tor. Oh, tail scale. No, it's WireGuard. So not tail scale. I thought WireGuard was the tail scale used. It's not tail scale. It's WireGuard. Yeah.

1:33:36 So tail scale uses WireGuard. This is WireGuard, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that head scale is good, but I have not tried it. Mm-hmm. It's like a self-hosted tail scale. Let me see. Oh, yeah, I have. Because it gives you access control lists and that kind of thing that overlay on the wire guard. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, yeah, Tailscale has a lot of extra, extra ditties. Use gateway. Ditties. Duties. Extra ditties. Extra ditties and duties. Chat F, 185 sats, giving AlbiHub a boost budget is cool, but not everyone can afford to run AlbiHub. It's true.

1:34:17 It's free though, right? Can't you run it free? But you got to run it on a machine. Normal people. Normal people can't run it, Dave. Normal people can't run it. Normal people. Chad F has machines. He's got lots of machines. Chad F, 185, says all hell is going to break loose and you're going to need an Albie hug. Where is that? Manning Bitcoin. That's what it is. Here we go. Here we go. They're saying that all hell is gonna break loose and you're gonna need a Bitcoin. Yeah. What are you going to do with all those jingles after October? No, I'm going to use them for this show. What do you mean? This show is continuing. I've got plenty of stuff to use it for.

1:35:01 It's great. It's 185 sass again from Chad. He says, send in boosts with Albie isn't anything new. Okay. Okay. I'm not sure what reference that was to you. Just so you know. Okay. Just letting everybody know. Chad F185, he says, I stand with CSB++. Okay. We all stand with CSB. Yeah, all the time. Mm-hmm. And guess what? We got a commentary blogger, 10,556 sats. There he is. Through Fountain. He says, howdy, Adam and Dave. Today I recommend a podcast, Unrelenting, from www.unrelenting.show, by Gene, who has an IQ of 187, and by Darren, who is much taller than Adam. It's a great podcast. Just jibber jabber about health, tech and life. No clips. Yo, CSB, Ozempic Taker. P.S. This gram was worth when sent $15.59 equals 19,000 satoshis. Thank you, comics or blogger. And he alerted me to the fact. So I figured out that. or my robot. I unleashed the robot on my start nine.

1:36:10 Like, why is my torque failing? And it says, well, I see here in the log that, you know, this version, it literally says this version will soon stop working. Right. okay and that's what happened so stop working so now i should be okay i should be okay okay for the A few hours before next Friday, Helipad will have repropagated everything up to 2026. It'll be fun to watch. Maybe. You're really sticking your neck out on that. Eric PP, do I have to keep Helipad open now? Do I have to keep the interface up, or will that work in the background? Do I need to keep the browser window open? You know, honestly, it's amazing that it even does that. Oh, it's phenomenal. I mean. Going back that far? Well, that's the whole L&D database. It's reparsing it all. That's really cool. I think it's phenomenal.

1:37:08 Yeah. It's just it's not very fast because right now we are at. Yeah. Let me see. Oops. I didn't mean to do that. Helipad. Open up the helipads. We are at June, 15th of June, 2023. Let me go look real quick. He says it'll run in the background. Cool. Okay. Thank you. Let me see how big the podcast index node database was. Oh, that thing was probably 600 gigabytes or some massive number like that. Trying to see us. Of course, I saved it in case we ever needed it for tax stuff. I want to I can't really look at it right now, but I think I want to say it was like 60 gigs. Oh, no, that's not that big then. But it's 60 gigs of a B-Bolt database. That's a big B-Bolt database. That's great. A 60 gig MySQL database is nothing, but that thing was not in the good format. It's like a 60 gig Fox Pro database. You're like, you don't want to touch that thing. Amazing. Lightning message board. What is that? Was that it, Dave? That's all I got, man.

1:38:29 Okay. Well, thank you all very much. Remember, the podcast index runs by your grace. Go to podcast. It was CSB says, damn, $200 a month for this Fediverse instance. Let's keep no history. Delete it all. Okay. That's fine. It'll still do it. Okay. Torch it. You know, I upgraded first and foremost because people want, I can't search. I can't search. That's how it works. You got to upgrade to another tier just to get search. I say we downgrade that thing. Okay. I'll take a look. I'll see what the options are. I mean, it's our tool, man. It's our tool. Sometimes you have to adjust your tool. Well, on that note, everybody, I'm going to go adjust my tool. I suggest you all do the same.

1:39:22 We'll be back next week on Friday with more Podcasting 2.0. We'll be right back. Thank you. I think they're cool. You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit podcastindex.org for more information. Go podcasting! We're off the rails!