Episode 264: Podcast Plebicide

0:00 Podcasting 2.0 for June 19th, 2026. Episode 264. Podcast plebiscite. Hello, everybody. It's raining here in Texas, but it's Friday because you know what that means. It is time for Podcasting 2.0. Everything going down in the world of podcasting is and then some other things as well. I'm Adam Currie here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who always gives you five nines above time. No memos. Memos require you to write things. A memorandum of understanding is different. It requires meetings.

0:52 handwriting stuff and flying to Switzerland to sign them. What? Um... You threw me on the Switzerland thing. Oh, I was referring to the Iran memorandum of understanding. Okay, I know nothing about this. Oh, you know what? That's beautiful. You don't need to know anything. You can be like those tourists all over social media. I'm so disconnected from anything that even remotely resembles news. I have no idea. I checked out of even trying to keep up with the Iran thing because it was like, you know, we're going to sign a peace deal. We're not signing a peace deal. The straits are open. No, they're closed. No, the straits are open. I'm like, I can't do this.

1:35 Whatever. Whatever. Basically, what is the... price at the pump. Okay, I guess that's okay then. We're all right. That's all we care about as Americans, really. And it's always just going to have the current president's sticker on the pump with a little finger saying, I did this. So it doesn't matter anyway. Whoever the new guy is, you put that sticker on there. Exactly. Yeah. No, I was saying that I love all these tourists who are here for the World Cup. You're not on social media, so you don't see that. It's on YouTube too. It's all over YouTube. And once you watch one, then you get into the algo hole. It's so wonderful. People are like.

2:18 Wow, America's great. The yellow school buses, they're real. They're real. I think that was just in TV shows and movies. Oops. Oh, hey. Hello. Got a baller. Baller. Let's see who boosted the baller. Oh, thank you, Drebscott. 10,000 sats. Boom. Right off the bat, a baller. Yeah, I've been watching I'm not a soccer fan. Really? But... I'm also not a fan of... We call it. like curling, but I watched that during the Olympics, and I enjoy it. I enjoy it, too. It's true. Curling is, especially when they got cute. girls on the team like yeah yeah but i'm not gonna watch it on like a tuesday in june you know no so but so so when the world cup happens um soccer's fun because i'm caught up in the hey everybody there's big things happening and it's fun to watch along and that kind of thing. Yeah, I like it too. I watch it. So I've been watching it. And the funny thing is we're watching it on the Roku. Yeah. And the only thing we have really access to because we don't pay for streaming stuff is... is like peacock Uh, like Spanish feed, the Telemundo feed. Ha ha, goal! Everything is in Spanish.

3:40 We don't even know who the teams are for a while because we're trying to figure out what the logo and the colors mean. Yeah, it's like, okay, okay. Well, I hope it stays free now that Fox bought it. Oh, they'll charge. They'll take the free part away. Yeah. I don't know if they will. They may or they may not, but. It's interesting you have free peacock. I didn't realize that. You gotta pay for it here. I think it comes with our... Your TV. No, with our internet. With our home internet. There's some kind of deal with our internet provider where you get like... It used to be HBO Max. No, no, no. I don't know why the Spanish thing is a thing. We can't get an English feed of the World Cup. For some reason.

4:28 Oh, that's too bad. I have, um, see, what am I recording it on? Sam Sethi probably pays for some kind of like $300 a month football god package or something. Uber lord package. Yeah. I really like YouTube TV. Ever since they added C-Span, that was the gating factor for me to have cable, which we got rid of. Um... Because C-SPAN is important for me. And you can set it up easily on YouTube TV to just record. Now you can do endless recordings of stuff. They keep creeping that price up on YouTube TV, though. Oh, yeah.

5:09 Well, I understand. A few bucks at a time, you know. I understand it. You turn around one day and it's 120. It's almost the same. It's basically the same price as cable packages used to be. No, no. Well. No. Mike... When we canceled cable, it was like... 120 bucks a month. But it came with internet? And that was like 12 years ago. That was a long time ago. But still over $100. Did you get your internet through them as well? How do you get your internet now? We do it through AT&T Fiber. Okay, what do you pay and what are you getting? We pay $85 a month. And it's just internet. What kind of bandwidth?

5:50 Just internet. No, it's a symmetric gig. A gig. Okay. I got five gigs for a hundred. I really love that. Symmetric 5x5x. I don't think we have... I don't think we have five gigs. No, this is... We got this... I'm sorry. I think we can do... Three gigs through Charter, but... I've not done it because I feel like anything above a gig. is sort of a marketing scam. Oh, totally. We got it because we're rural America. So... What is the outfit called that does this? They bought... They bought Verizon's thing. I forget their name now.

6:37 Is it Freedom Internet? No, it's not. It's not. It's something like that. But they got subsidies from the government. So, you know, that's why we have this, you know, super broadband. Because, of course, you know, the most billionaires in Texas live in Fredericksburg. And so we need the subsidy to give us five gigs of Internet. It makes nothing but sense. Frontier. That's the frontier. Yeah, that's the one. Frontier. I was thinking freedom. I meant frontier. Same thing. Yeah, that's true. I was reflecting the whole week I've been reflecting on, uh, on the last board meeting. Because you were in... I've kind of been a... Well, I think you were grieving. a little bit. The loss of what? The loss of, well, about AI coding and...

7:26 being a software developer and It felt like you were grieving a little bit about it. Because you said I love it and hate it at the same time. Is that an incorrect assumption? It's interesting that you bring that up because I've been... thinking about the last board meeting most of the week as well. Were you thinking about me? Because my butt got all warm, so I don't know. It's supposed to be your ears, not your butt. I'm sorry. I'll have to talk to my body. Is your butt burning? Somebody's talking about you. No, the... I actually did something I rarely ever do and within a couple of hours after you posted the show I went back and listened to the show again. I did too and I rarely do that myself. That's interesting. That's funny because it just felt like such a it was such a discombobulated show that we forgot to do donations. That has never happened to me in a podcast ever. Ever.

8:26 I don't know what happened there. That shows you how weird it was. I didn't have an end of show. I mean, everything was off. Okay, I have some conclusions about it, but do you want to go first? Let's review. - With the meeting notes of the last board meeting. - No, please no AI meeting note taker, please. Is it? ISOs, you can pull last week's ISO. That was a killer one. Yeah. um Yeah, I think I actually know. There's a bunch of podcast stuff we need to talk about, but this, I actually want to, I'm glad you brought this up. Because Justin Jackson had a blog post this week. Oh, I have not seen Justin Jackson's blog post. Justin Jackson of Transistor. also of Podcast Standards Project. Notoriety and fame. Yes. Infamy. Infamy. What is it? Is it a sub stack or what is it?

9:31 I don't know. I don't know what it is. I don't know what he uses, but it's, it's a. I'm gonna have to find it now. Um. Calm company, how to build something people want. Am I looking at the right thing here? Do you know what it was called? Justin Jackson's a basketball player, evidently. Transistor blog. Now I've got to go find it. Podcasting articles. Here it is, justinjackson.ca. Yeah, I got that. Oh, yeah, that's right, because he's a Canuck. Yeah. Which blog post? I don't even remember what it's called. It's brand new. It should be at the top. How I would build a new startup if I do it all over. Okay, we have Calm Company.

10:15 We have a communication problem. Here it is. It's not on the homepage. Oh, yes, yes. Yes, we do. Yes, we do. That was a very good post. I saw it. I actually talked about that on No Agenda, which you never listen to. Oh, see, that's why I don't listen, because I would have been tainted. Yes. Um. So he wrote this blog post and the. The long and short of it is that... He's saying that... real life, he's... Got a company that they've had, the transistor is a company they've built remotely. Sort of like we've always worked, you know, remotely. together and sort of in this disconnect. chat based work. That you slack. UNI use Signal.

11:07 And he said that there was this long-running issue building between him and his co-founder. that was sort of simmering over many months where they had this some basic agreements about some things. He was not, he didn't elaborate on it, but he said, um, They finally met up. and just had dinner together in real life. and It was all. resolved all their differences, all this discrimination. Yeah, in like 30 minutes. In like 30 minutes. Over dinner. Yeah. I take it back. There was no agenda. It was on We Get to Do This where I discussed it. Okay. And you and I have had these experiences with, you know, with Godcaster where we have disagreements and we've had this experience with other things we've been involved in.

11:57 You and I tend to... Things just kind of roll off of us a little bit quicker, but whenever somebody else comes in, things tend to flare up a little bit. Um, but. You know, the point of his article was real life is better for... many reasons this being one of them. for all the things there's nothing novel here what he's saying it's just we know all this we know that We know that this is the case because of all kinds of things, body language, the look on a person's face. You can tell when you said something, if it hurt their feelings. You can tell if they're... concerned about something you're saying because then you sense, oh, maybe you're misunderstanding. There's a lot of things that happen. In real life, this is not groundbreaking information here.

12:52 Breaking! Bye. But I'm not really interested. I started thinking about that. and not really about the why so much as the how. Um... You know, we often go back and forth. on github and podcast index.social mastodon About the various standards and tags that people are working on and interested in building. or refining or whatever. As expected, there's disagreements. there always is going to be in this kind of work. And people, including me, we get our feelings hurt sometimes. We, you know, we flame out. We do these kinds of things. And As part of this... You know me, I'm going around the world, I'll come back, I promise. I have this intense... He's doing the weave, people. He's doing the weave. I have this intense dislike.

13:54 I'm with you, brother. I just don't look at it. It's not an option for you, but I just don't look at it. You know It's not an option for me, but I don't look at it either. I don't. And I can't really put my finger on why until I read... Two things had to happen back to back. I read Justin's blog post and I was thinking about it. It was in my head. And then later I was reading. a book that I had started to read a while back and had put down in order to read Secular Age, the Charles Taylor books. I finished Secular Age finally. I'm a slow reader. So I sort of, I was reading that, this new book and I was sort of. Put two and two together. through this lens of attention. focused attention. And so this book is... about is about the brain and and its effect on society specifically. you know, the world we live in now, modern society. It's called The Master and His Emissary by Ian McGilchrist. Um. partially It's partially a critique of like the, you know, this, this guy's a. He's a neurologist. fellow at Oxford distinguished career It is partially a critique of

15:28 the machine model of the brain. So the brain is split into two hemispheres. connected through this mass of connective circuits. called the Corpus Colossum. But the thing, even if you sever that connective tissue between the hemispheres, with very few exceptions, the brain and the person continues to function just like they always did. Which is weird. So So why is it there? If you can cut, if you can literally sever the two hemispheres and they and there's very little impact that it has why did it why was it like that to begin with And why are there two hemispheres anyway? Like it was noticed early on, like very early, that language seems to be predominantly a left hemisphere. activity. Yeah, there's a lot of people writing about this right now. And it comes from this guy's book. Oh, interesting. Yeah, this is the root. Now, this book is a more accessible version of his larger academic work called The Matter with Things, which is a two-volume.

16:39 1200 page beast. This is the more accessible version. Um. But some people show almost the exact opposite. With all their language activity being concentrated in the right hemisphere. Mm-hmm. So it seems like generally speaking... There aren't very many rules that to the brain in the same way that they would apply to something like a machine. So Even though that's not the main point of the book, that is part of it. kind of idea I was reading through. You know, pro- attention, this focused attention being primarily like a... left hemisphere activity. And let me just say here, though. It's also where we get triggered on everything.

17:27 I mean, the left brain is a whole bunch of crazy stuff, which is social media loves left brain. Well, and I know, and I know, I feel like I'm... running through that right now. I need to say first of all... Please do not read left-right hemisphere language as relating to anything like political or cultural. as we talk of left and right, like on the politics spectrum. No, no. They're not in any way related. That's not a thing. But, you know, in his idea is that... Left hemisphere dominance is what is the prime mover of cultural impact in the world today. So in this. But he has this quote, and I wrote it down. He said, attention is not just another function. alongside other cognitive functions.

18:23 ontological statuses of something prior to functions and even to things. The kind of attention we bring to bear on the world changes the nature of the world we attend to. the very nature of the world in which those functions would be carried out and in which those things exist. attention changes what kind of a thing comes into being for us. And that way it changes the world. Wow. And I would add that when he says the world there, I think he means, and I'm pretty sure he's meaning the world as we perceive it. As we perceive it, of course. Right. Which really is the world. It's all perception. Yeah. Because that's all we have access to, right? We can only see the world through a perception. And in a sense, you could think of it like... Like, what does Mount Everest do when nobody's there?

19:20 And the answer is nothing. So like the idea that there's this. There's this very predominant view that there's like this subjective view of the world. And then there's this objective view of the world. And that some of us see one, you know, I see the world objectively and you see it subjectively. But that doesn't really obtain because the idea there. The idea that there are even two views, a subjective and an objected, isn't a priority view of the world. You're bringing the view that there are two views. to bear on the world already. So you've already... dude It's a tautology. So the, I mean, the book. You know... It's... It's in my mind, and I'm kind of thinking through all these things, as after I read... Justin's blog post. And then. James posted something on Podcast Index on social about the transcript tag. And, uh... Nice, if I can find it. And then there was this discussion back and forth between James and Daniel J. Lewis. Yes, I saw some of that, yeah. Yeah, okay. James said, my proposal was to suggest that full support Support of the transcript tag should be suggested to be simply VTT.

20:44 that if you only support VTT... both publisher and client, then that's full support of the tag. And if you do not support VTT, you do not support the tag. Now, I really appreciated... What? what he said there. Because I think that that resolved a lot of misunderstandings of. what I've been thinking he's been saying over months now. And I was like, man, wow, this is... It's amazing that Justin posts this. And then I have like... a realization of a thing that I was very unsure about what James was saying. And James even said there, he's like, if you want to jump on a call and work this out, I'm happy to explain it. I was like. You know, we probably should have done that. Yeah.

21:34 Criddler call. The Criddle phone. Pick up the Criddle phone. And, uh... So then Daniel J. Lewis, if you scroll down, he said... He comes back. He says standards do need to be set for things to get adopted. There does need to be a sense of, quote, you're doing it wrong. Here's the right way to do it, which I know seems contrary to your own technology perspective, Dave. And I appreciate what he said there. And also, and of course, James's post as well. because it It gave me a chance to sort of go off and give all this a good think. And as part of thinking about it, I just started realizing podcastindex.social. more closely mimics a real sort of life experience to me. than something like a slack or signal or something like that oh absolutely But why? Isn't it odd? It's... It's the interface, Dave. Yeah. I think you're right. Why would Mastodon mimic a real life experience? And I'm not saying that Mastodon adequately captures real life. I'm not saying it's a replacement for that in any way. um It's even close to being in the same room with another person. That's not.

22:59 that's not the point of what I'm saying, but I'm saying that the fact that there is any difference at all between those two mediums, something like a, like a Slack and a podcast index, that social to me is, is it bears a significance that I need to, that, that, that I thought I needed to stop and think about. And I think it's because... the sort of semi-public federated nature. of mastodon makes it feel Makes it feel more like you're having a personal discussion where you're going back and forth with a person in an open space, like in public. Mm-hmm. It sort of, it feels like the same atmosphere you get like in a hallway in an office building where you're having this one-on-one discussion, but people are walking by and overhearing, and then somebody may even overhear a thing you said and jump in the conversation. But then if you compare that to something like Signal or Slack or even email or text messaging or those kinds of things that are... Completely private, isolated environments.

24:01 I think they distort this attention mechanism. because there's no real world equivalent to something like that. It really draws this... left hemisphere. which is predominantly... Um... involved in focused attention to a single issue like he gives the example in the book of of birds in hell. They will use their right eye. So left and right are swapped. So left hemisphere controls right hand. right side of the body. They'll use the right eye to monitor, to be focused on what they're eating. like off the ground and they'll be at the exact same time using their left eye to watch for prey And so there's this split between And this left hemisphere is intensely f***ed. focus on this one thing right in front of it and it's not seeing the world in this big picture of the world yeah it's a micro micro hyper focused hyper focus and the that distorted attention mechanism, like we really do feel siloed into a bubble. Where there's, where it ends.

25:20 up being there's nothing bigger than that one thing that exists. It becomes that one issue becomes the whole world to us. And of course it's going to make us angry. Ah, okay. So, just interjecting. That may be because when you scroll down the homepage of the Mastodon. You see something, but there's other things, there's other... conversations, other context in the same space where a GitHub It's like you're in a GitHub discussion. That's it. There's nothing else. You're isolated. You're isolated, yeah. I think you're exactly right. going to make us angry because it feels like our whole world depends on it because that is our current perception of the entire world. Now I don't know what to do about it. Oh, it's very simple. I know exactly what to do about it. When you read something on GitHub, cover your right eye. Use only your left eye. That's genius! I'm telling you. It may work. Was it like pirates when they had the iPad and they'd move it to the other side? Yeah. This is great.

26:31 I'm going to try it myself. There might be something to this. It's like a chicken. You have to flip your head around the other way and look at it. Just a thought. I don't know. I mean, like, maybe I've... It's funny that I think I sort of intuitively felt that this was something going on here in this fashion because I had asked. Nathan. couple of weeks or I mentioned something and we interacted. about. the github discussions and and how i'd like was it a mistake to move away from the issues and I think I was just feeling uncomfortable with the whole thing. And I'm not saying that we should ditch discussions or all of that.

27:17 I mean, no, no, it's not necessary, but I'm just. I think These are the types of things that open source projects do not discuss. And because they get intensely focused on the technology and that's all that matters, and in the background, these things are brewing. And these the it's these ancillary things that come into the the picture with open source projects. and create. flame wars and hurt feelings and all these kinds of things because they never talk about the world outside of just the technology that they're dealing with. You know, I've thought about our merry band of misfits a lot. Just in general. And I think that the... inadvertently the success of this project because it's just a project that we're doing here is two things. It's the mastodon. in combination with the GitHub. I mean, the GitHub is there for, obviously, for code and commits and PRs and I've, I, I, I realize I can't handle the discussions because I get mad. I'm just reading it like... I don't know what you're talking about.

28:28 I'm the podfather. Get away. I'll shoot what she's saying. and the podcast. The board meeting. where we just kind of hash this stuff out and you can't and it only works with the live chat Those elements only. Yep. Yep. Yep. Those elements make this somehow make this thing work. makes i mean I don't know if I, I mean. You and I don't make any money off of this. Six years we've been doing this. We're doing it for reasons. But... It would have been a lot harder if we didn't have the Mastodon and the podcast with the chat. And this weekly kind of get together, you know, no set agenda, more or less. and just hash stuff out. goof off sometimes, have a good laugh, have a good weekend. See you on the Mastodon. you know?

29:22 Yeah. I think that all open source projects should have some combination of this. I think you're right. It just feels critical, you know? Yeah, and this... I would go further and say that also... The Puny's Weekly Review is also a big part of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, James and Sam, I do listen. They're like, they're like Adam Curry, Adam Curry. Otherwise, they don't think that my robot will pick it up. Listen, my robot is pretty sophisticated, okay? My robot. God knows what it's doing, and I do listen. But if they somehow stopped doing that show, we would probably just have them come on the show a lot. Yeah.

30:08 Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And discuss things. Because I think it's just that. That's part of – But this is what blogging used to be. When Weiner had the right ideas about blogs... with uh, reposting. Um, Ah, you know... I forget all the different things that we had, but you could make a blog post about a blog post and then you could hit that tag, that blog post. It would show up on automatically on like a ping, ping back. Or whatever it was. Yeah, was that what it was called? I think that was called a pingback. Might have been a pingback, yeah. I mean, these were all the right ideas, and of course all these ideas got commercialized and hijacked the whole idea of the news feed.

30:53 Facebook didn't have a news feed. They didn't have a feed. you know, like an RSS feed. But anyway. Well, I think, yeah, that's right, yeah. That's... So that's interesting because that was not at all what I was going to talk about. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, no, no. Don't be sorry. No, we love a sage cast. There's nothing wrong with that. Now I felt, okay, so. I mistakenly felt you were grieving a little bit because we talked about it. about being a software engineer. and you know, just where this is headed with. coding agents etc and you felt a little bit bummed about it because i think you if i recall you said I love it and hate it immensely at the same time. Yes, that's right. So you weren't grieving over that. You were grieving over James. He made you cry. No, no, no, not at all. No, this is not true. No, no, no. No, your description is accurate. Yes. No, I'm. The only thing, the only little... You're right. The only little tweak, though, I would put into it is... that I felt Um... I still feel that way. I still hate AI intensely. And, and, and I. It's not like I want- I don't get a lot of joy from code.

32:22 I haven't in a long time. It's the creation part that I like. The learning a new language, I've learned so many languages over the years. That part's not really interesting to me anymore. And the syntax and all these kinds of things, those are just... To me, it's just a little bit of drudgery. So diving into the AI coding is good from that standpoint because it's like, oh, it takes a lot of the drudgery out of it. But then at the same, but it also takes the creation out of it. And you feel, I feel like there's a, this happened too fast. We went from, I went, I personally went from writing. 100% of every piece of code that goes into Podcast Index and Godcaster and Freedom Controller and everything else I'm working on. to I write probably 10% of the code now. by hand. It's all. The Coding Agent And it happened. Within like two months. This is a monumental shift. Yeah. It's not something I was mentally or psychologically prepared for. I think that's where the grief is coming from because I don't really know what it means. What just happened? So here's my analogy, my analog to your story. When I... I was done doing radio. I mean, probably a little bit before the mid-90s. And... As you know, my story is that I got into radio by building my first transmitter and

33:55 then building a mixer and, you know, putting two mismatched... turntables together and coming up with ways to queue up records which if i ever told you it was kind of quite genius So we'd have these little small mixers that were really mixers for guys doing. you know, clubs, and maybe you had two turntables, you know, two... One for a cassette deck. and maybe a mic channel. So we... we put micro switches into the faders so we'd un we'd open it up So when the fader is down, then the channel is closed and nothing's playing. So what you want is when you open the fader and you... You know, you slam it all the way up you want. So the channel is open at full volume the same time you want the record to start. So we would hook the micro switch up to a relay.

34:49 So we'd... We would get big relays, you know, the big ones, big magnet in there. We break off the plastic cap. And then we'd get our turntable. You put an old record you don't want anymore on the turntable. Then we had an oversized slip mat. Remember slip mats? Yeah. So you get an oversized slip mat. So the edge of it was running through the relay. And so when the relay was activated, click, it grabs the slip mat. and then the record on top of the slip mat wouldn't move. Until you open the fader, the micro switch clicks off. Boom. The relay is deactivated. It opens up. The records start with only like... you know, like a quarter turn, it would be up to speed and it would start playing. So you could cue it up.

35:37 which later, you know, people may remember that sound. This is beautifully analog. I love this. Precisely. Cassette decks. So we would use those for jingles. And so you'd have maybe 10 jingles on a cassette. And so you'd, you'd, uh, Pre-fader listening mode. You listen, you have your hand on the pause button. I'm like, okay, here it comes. It starts, click. You click it. You click pause, then you click eject, you put a pencil in and you would rewind the cassette about half a turn, put it back in, put on pause, and then when it was time to play that jingle, you just hit. the pause button, it would be queued up and ready to go.

36:19 This is where I started. This is where I started. - In a, Nam said, "The fact that you did all this "and still lost your virginity is quite frankly amazing." - Well, funny enough, when chicks find out you're that guy on the radio, man, they wanna be in the studio. - John Holden, baby. - Yeah, John, that's right, John Holden, exactly. So then later we got. carts, which was originated from an eight track, the eight track system. The only difference with it, we would literally buy old eight tracks up. We'd drill a hole, probably like a, I'm going to say like a two inch hole on the bottom of it. So the cart machine, you'd stick it in front loader, and then the roller wheel would come up, but not quite hit the tape to the heads. But when you hit the play button, the roller would snap against the head, start playing, and it would start shuttling the tape around. And these things were just on a loop. And it would stop with the tone you put on the tape. I mean, literally, if you wanted to reuse your cart, you had to... Put it on a big magnet and degauss it. Just wipe it. Wipe it. Yeah, exactly. So that's where I came from. And, you know, there was no lights. telling you the record was over you know you had to kind of time it or listen if you went to the can or whatever and mixing it was you know it was a it was a an art you know like okay here's it's just at the end of the song

37:51 boom i'm gonna hit the throw up the next it was physical too it's real physical boom and that's why we'd stand you know i want to energy so i'm standing and i'm doing all this physical stuff and i'm and then i don't i only know the intros and outros of songs i don't know any of the lyrics in the middle because in the middle of the song we're not listening to the song we're getting our next record this is and we're choosing a record take it out of the sleeve put it on cue it up okay good boom i'm back okay i got 30 seconds left. Boom, I'm into the next record. This was a... thing, you know, you're in the vibe and, and all kinds of stuff could happen that could, that could jar you out a bit. But when you're in the, in the groove was just fantastic. And so The next time I looked at radio, it was all digital. And that meant that there were no records. It was all on hard drive. And you had waveforms. And you literally would queue up a mix. You didn't do a mix live anymore. You just put this waveform here, that waveform there.

38:53 Okay, let's do it. It's good. I'm done. And it would do it all automatically. And I hated it. I mean, this sucks. This is not the art. that I used to be a part of. Now, it took me... many years actually before I was doing digital production radio again, and I got into it. And I'm like, okay. Now I can focus on other things and I can... I can get, you know, it's different, but I'm still able to get joy out of it. But when I do like I used to do daily source code, you know, FUBAR Friday, it would be digital, but I wouldn't do it on a digital machine. you know, that all the kids are using, I would just have players. I still use players lined up and I hit them manually.

39:45 I don't like the whole mixing it together bit. So I've, I've kind of created my own IDE, if you will, uh, for radio, uh, with music. Now the other analogy is flying. I learned to fly. The Ascendant It's in a 182RG retractable gear, high-speed prop. It's a fast plane. with what we call a six-pack. So I had six dials, you know, altimeter, attitude, speed, critically, your airspeed, you know, your roll and bank. And so... If you're doing an approach to an airport on the ILS instrument landing system, you know you you would literally fly based upon a chart that you had on your lap, okay, called the approach plate, because you have to fly this teardrop to then come down before you can pick up. the instrument landing system and you'd make that turn you have to do a standard rate turn and you'd have to time it. Literally with a stopwatch, which was on the panel. Because then you would know at a certain speed. So then you would know that you had completed that teardrop circle. And you knew it because then you would see. the needles start to come together because the instrument landing system has two needles that cross like a cross. One is, okay, you're on the right direction, and the other one is you're on the glide path.

41:09 You're at the right altitude, and so as the needle... moves you want to move the aircraft you want to point the nose down so that you're on that glide path and then at 300 feet. If you don't break out of the clouds, you're going to go back up again and go around. But typically, 300 feet, you break out of the clouds. There's the runway. You're landing within 20 seconds. Okay. So I converted to a modern aircraft a few years ago. the Cirrus, it's all glass. And it freaked me out. I'm like. It only has one backup airspeed indicator. I'm like, it's like a video game. I can't do this. I was struggling. And then for that turn for the ILS. So my instructor said, okay, and you just follow the thing on the screen. I said, wait a minute. This is how the kids are doing. You can do this on a test? Oh, yeah.

42:04 Oh, yeah. You just follow the screen like a video game. And I was like, well, this is no good. This is not, that's not flying. This is, this is, this sucks. No. Now that I've converted to that... And imminent death is always kind of there when you're flying. I'm like, this is actually better. It's actually pretty good. But I know that in a pinch, I could figure stuff out and I could rely on my senses. And, you know, it does have a... an attitude indicator so I wouldn't be flying upside down in the clouds if everything blanked out. I'm just saying, my point being... Hang in there. You will find your groove and your vibe in a new way. that I think will maybe even bring you more creative juices than you ever expected. And I heard Jeff Bezos. Actually, we played this on... on no agenda. It was a crazy... Silicon Valley term that he used. Oh, Lord. Yeah, but in hindsight, because I laughed at it yesterday, but listen to this. I know there's a lot of concern that many people have, including many smart people. that AI is going to make humans redundant and so on. I totally disagree with this point of view. And I think, in fact, AI is going to create a labor shortage because it's going to make it possible for people to identify more problems. We have an endless set of things to invent. And we are

43:35 only limited. Today, we are limited. not by our imaginations, but by what we can actually do. I promise you, every single person in this audience has had an idea. for a new business or a new product or a new device that they wish they could manufacture. And that I just stayed in your head. It went nowhere. And the reason it stayed in your head and went nowhere is because it's too hard to do and it wasn't worth it. And if we can accelerate the dream build loop, all of the ideas will then become possible. And then we end up being limited not by our capabilities, but by our imaginations. So the dream build loop, laughable, gross. However, this happens to me continuously. I have dream build loops all the time. And last night I had an idea for Godcaster. It's kind of irrelevant what it is. But it almost came to me in a dream.

44:36 And today I'm almost done building it. Now. I have a different relationship to code than you do, but I think as hokey as it sounds. There's something to what he's saying about that. To me, that's like kind of back to that digital radio. I can do more and I can be creative. other ways that I couldn't. back in the analog days. To me, the... The difficulty here... is that The difference, the dream build loop. is not a loop. It's a straight... It's a path. And the path may go uphill. It may go around a bunch of rocks. It may go through deep water. And if you... And depending on how difficult that is, path is?

45:41 may help you determine whether or not it's worth it. To continue going or to set it aside and do something different. I agree. I think the loop is lame. I agree. The dream build path may be better. That's, to me, that's the dark pattern. of AI is that it reduces the build friction down so low that you do start building everything. And the world wasn't meant for everything to be built. It was only meant for things to be built that... contributes something to either the people in it or the world around those people in it in a positive way. I think because this is the issue of. the issue we talked about before with like AI generated podcasts. in And I've got a lot of thoughts on that right now going, is with this FastCast thing that came out. The AI-generated pike. When the friction to build is reduced to almost zero, what you do is you flood the world. Right, but is it really flooding the world? I mean, it's just flooding up space that is... technically cheap it's not like Look, I don't know a lot of people. There's very few people who said, I started listening to No Agenda because I was searching in a podcast app for news with No Agenda and your show popped up. Maybe one hand I can

47:13 count those people. It all comes from somewhere else. It didn't come from searching in a podcast app. Now. It's different from YouTube, where YouTube, who are having a really hard time now trying to suppress the slop because they have to identify it, and that comes into some of the podcast stuff we got to talk about. Um, it's it's you know they have algos that are presenting stuff to people and now you're fighting a lot more content that's out there than you were before. But when it comes to podcasting, good luck. I've always said this is ephemeral. I don't think this is going to carry on very long because it's just ultimately not going to work. People won't find it. Those who do think it'll be limited, who enjoy. whatever the content is, you know, there's an audience for it. I listened to one or two.

48:04 text-to-speech automated things. It's alright, but it's not the same as something I'm going to become a part of a community and enjoy listening to and will talk to other people about. Yeah, I think you're talking about it in the context of... projects and you know dream build loop and that kind of thing and that i think that's That's the issue is that... For instance... Let's see, I think search. is Search is the only way. It's the reason Google is what they are. Search is the only way the internet even pretends to function. You can't have an internet without some functional level of search involved. and the, you know, like for instance. uh, NVIDIA. Mm-hmm. the DJX Spark. So the DJX Spark. has that community is building a lot of tools. So they've got a lot of stuff that they, and of course they're all vibe coding. And so there's... There's literally dozens of different versions of... Top. The processor. you know, monitoring software that you use a lot in Linux and Linux. They've built all these different clones of Top that are specific to the

49:36 DGX Spark. to monitor the unified memory segments and the Blackwell GPUs and memory and all these kinds of things. So they're all very specific to this DJI X Spark. Well, if you go to look, which one are you going to use? Like, there's dozens. I have no idea. The MSI. The MSI, of course. Some of them may even be malicious. and have supply chain hijacking modules. You just don't know. This is the problem. But in the previous time, I go back to... The You know, you talked about the old days of DJing and radio and that kind of thing. the manual nature of all those things contributed something to the overall quality of the output. You know, it's going to take, it takes a, it took a... A DJ in Cleveland to really put Rush on the map.

50:37 because she... was just determined she loved this band she was going to play their stuff on on air And it was like that. It was such a strong signal of quality. At that time. And that's what. That's what code used to be. Yeah. It used to be a strong quality indicator and now there's no... indicators whatsoever. It's just noise. Bemrose makes a good point. No agenda art generator is an excellent example. Where... Excuse me. choke out the thing oops it's going crazy i didn't mean to do that um So we'd have people listening to the show, artists with Photoshop mainly, but some would draw stuff by hand and scan it. They make album art for each show and it would be ready for us by the time we're done. So once the AI generators came along, people started flooding it with AI art images. And at this point, I don't think a single... No, that's not true. Almost every single artist left as in they don't make art anymore. They may not even listen to the show. I mean, they got so disappointed. It used to be a real race. You know, it's like, wow, you know, I created this and I did it within 30 minutes and was there ready for them. And they didn't pick my art. But people would still have appreciation for it. you did. We always discuss the art afterwards.

52:00 Oh, we like what you did, but we didn't pick it for this reason. It was like a review of the artist's work, which they don't get an honest review usually in commercial settings. And we gave them an honest review. So then the AI generators came along. And it became. It was really, really bad in the beginning. The whole page would be filled with... orange looking images then the cartoon models came out and everything looked like a cartoon and it sucked balls And then slowly... we're seeing two things happen. One, some of the artists who were OG artists like Blue Acorn and Nessworks, they started figuring out how to use. this tool and are winning picks.

52:44 And then there's a guy who could not do art at all, Darren O'Neill. He's almost the top guy because he understands the humor. He understands how to translate a humorous idea. Into. into his generation model. And what comes out is often hilarious. The people who are just slapping away, slopping away, trying to, you know, then uploading stuff. Eventually they quit because they never get chosen. So... It was a real bummer for a while. And now it's kind of coming into a new... a new place. And from time to time, you'll have someone just upload something completely hand-drawn, completely handmade. It stands out so beautifully. Like, boom, you're a winner. Not all of them, but some of them. Same goes for end of show mixes. Finally, people are starting to write lyrics to go with their songs, and they're figuring out how to make Sunot. do something so it sounds different from every other single AI slop song out there. So there's a curve, and I've seen this in accelerated time, and I expect it to be with everything. I expect the same curve to take place with all arts and sciences, I guess. There's... I've been through so many of these cycles. And we both have. I mean, I started... My first computer was a Commodore 64 and, you know. in the 80s and when I was young and if you've been in the... technology,

54:16 computer world that long. I've been there. I've been there. Peek and poke, baby. Yeah, when you've been in it that long and you've gone from... Loading programs into memory from a cassette tape. And then you're literally trying to... Get your add-on card to work by changing jumpers on the board and putting... putting drivers into your system.ini file and all these. And then you get to a point in your career where you no longer have servers on-premises, everything's in the cloud. There's been so many of these changes. Drum. You get used to just... moving along with the flow of the way that things... I don't like using the word progress. I just don't like that term.

55:13 It's just things go in a different direction. All right. Let's move in. Let's move into some podcasting stuff. Cause we, you know, we've once again, and we. talked about ourselves for an hour. What else is there? Let me cover my left eye here for a second. Okay. Do a little better. Okay. So we've already, so let's just circle back quickly to the VTT. So we have resolution now. I think I understand what he's saying. I think he's saying... You can do whatever you want, but you support it if you support VTT. Right. That means you adhere to the spec. I'm down with that. I think that's fine. I don't know why. It took so long for me to understand this. I guess it's just a miscommunication. But I think that's fine, and I think we could do that with most of these tags that have multiple formats. I'm going to move us along. Podping.alpha. Stable.

56:12 Stable. Five nines. So this. on Got so many irons in the... fire on the podcast index side the putt Nathan. GethRide. Just... picked me up by the scruff of the neck and threw me down a rabbit hole. Wow. Like... And he had no idea that he was doing it. He innocently posted about the iTunes. tag, excuse me, the You can add feeds to the podcast index in many ways. One of them is through the add. by iTunes ID endpoint. in the API. And so. If you have an iTunes ID... that doesn't appear to be in the index. You can add a feed to the index by referencing its iTunes ID. using that endpoint. Wait, say that again? So if you know one of the functions of the index is that's fall back to where you can do iTunes. You can look, yeah, you can look up. Yeah. And so if you don't have... Like if you pull the index and we don't have a feed either by URL or by iTunes ID. You can add it. to the index by just referencing its iTunes ID.

57:43 and we'll do the backup. No, excuse me, we'll do the lookup. And yeah, here's thank you, Nathan, the link master that you are. Let me quote him correctly. When Podlink looks up a show by its iTunes ID in the index. returns no results but the feed is already in the index is there anything you'd like me to do with that information Sounds pretty straightforward. Yeah. This led me to a gigantic rabbit hole. Because... I found out that that... I thought that the index... I thought that that's already what was happening. That's the way I wanted it to work. But... The more I looked at that endpoint, It was a mess. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that thing. It makes no sense. Whatever it's trying to do, it is not that.

58:39 And I can't make. it make any sense. So... I was like, okay, I'm going to have to rewrite this. Well, that turned into... A long process because. Then all of your directories sync. things become You have to think it. all through. end. What if, so somebody has an iTunes ID. They add. They reference that in the ad by iTunes ID end point. So there is the index says, oh, okay. You've given me an iTunes ID. and I need to go find the feed URL and add this to the index. can What? What if it already has the ID? Right. Okay. Internally, the way we do it is we have two directories. The podcast index is...

59:40 It has an Apple directory internally to it, and it has its regular directory. Now, we don't scrape Apple for their stuff. But we just keep it segregated, and then we just do a table relationship between the feeds table in the podcast index and the Apple table. So we just go insert it into the Apple. directory and then we just link it. *Clears throat* So What if we already have that iTunes ID? Are we going to look up Apple every time? No, probably shouldn't. Well, but what if the URL changed? What if they have a different one than, what if Apple has a different one than we have the last one? Oh, just give them the no agenda feed. Every time. Every time.

1:00:27 For every fee. Every time. Every time. Yeah. I want the Simon the Gardener or whatever from the AI thing. There you go. That's a good idea. and Cumberbund or whatever his name was. From inception point AI. Yeah, yeah, and you get no agenda. So... Um... Then you just have to think all this through. Okay, so we do have to check every time. Okay, what if you check? and you get back a different result. Then what? we have in our apple table. Do we then have to...

1:01:10 Double check. The feed URL that we have and that Apple has. to make sure that Apple... seems correct because they can have old stuff in there too. We know from long experience. that sometimes people don't update their Apple, their URL in Apple's podcast connect correctly. And so if we just blindly change it. without checking to make sure it's right. So this I've just been going round and round with the logic of this thing, tying myself in mental knots. But... I'm at the point now where I'm just going to have to ship something. I don't. Ship it! Ship it! Because the questions... really have broader ramifications.

1:01:59 about refactoring. a lot of what we're doing. And I'm not ready to go there right now. So I'm just going to have to ship something that broadly meets... what this endpoint is supposed to do and just deal with the consequences. And once that happens, then next on the list is Podping.alpha. Yes. You brought up podping.alpha, and that was my long-winded way of saying it. He's doing the weave. That's next. That's next. Because I think it's stable. And I think it's time to... split it out into the so Right now it's this monolithic thing, so we need to split it out into a... Podping. Excuse me, a gossip writer. repo and a gossip listener repo. in a gossip monitor repo. And the monitor. That term is a little bit of a misnomer because it's doing, it is monitoring, but it's also doing management of the swarm.

1:03:09 So it's... Eero. uh uses high power view And it's prone to... having drift, we've talked about this before, nodes can drift off to where they're quote, poorly connected. they can kind of isolate themselves off where they don't have a good, they don't have more, they only have one path. to the swarm. Like incels. Insane. Hero incel. It's like an NSFW Reddit. Yeah. And so... A dangling bastard.

1:03:56 So the monitor... The Podbean Monitor. Watches for those things. And then... gently reaches out and pulls them back into the family. How sweet. How sweet. Yeah, it just gives a little gentle nudge. Come on back, baby. Come on back to the fan. Come on. Why so cold, sugar? Come on back. And so, and it does that by sending, it does that by sending some messages saying, here is a set of nodes. that you should try to connect to right now. And that instantly gets it back. up and running where it's well connected. So that once that happens. Once we get those repos split out. then we can bake them directly into the podping.cloud. servers so that They are riding to Hive and to... gossip at the same time. So that's the plan. I like it.

1:05:06 Thanks. I'm just waiting until you tell me it's safe for me to launch a Linode with running one of these things. Just a little $5 a month. Yeah, totally. Run it. Yeah, just let it run. I just, right now, like, ah, I gotta go upgrade and do all this stuff. It feels like a lot. I just want, when it's... When it's, uh, when you got an RC. I really, yeah, okay, RC2, wait for RC2, RC1's brittle. Gold master. Yeah, that's what I want. Nathan said he's running a gossip listener as well. Yes, anybody who... and Eric and Archie's running a bunch. So anybody who wants to run one, feel free. The more, the better. The more people that run a gossip listener. the better. the swarm will operate. The more there are, the more stable the whole... Pierce Warren becomes. I think the whole idea is fantastic. Now, can I poison and stuff by, if I run my... My gossiper and it just starts spouting off stuff that's incorrect and lies. No. Okay. Because There are trusted nodes. And the trusted nodes list will initially just only contain. the five pod ping dot cloud gossip writers. In the future, there will be... The code's already

1:06:38 in there, but. The gossip writers, if somebody else wants to run a writer, to push... Podpings out to the swarm. You can, but initially you will not be trusted, so the nodes in the swarm will... ignore your stuff. there is a way to, there's a voting mechanism that happens like a plebiscite. Where? Plebiscite. Ooh. We're the... So it's like... It's a, yeah, it's a pod, it's a podcast. plebiscite where you have all these uh the the nodes like if i trust your node And you mark.

1:07:27 A note is trusted. It propagates. So like the five, the five, the pod pain dot cloud. initial riders. If somebody else fires one up and we trust that person... Let's say that it's you or Nathan or Eric PP or Archie or somebody. we can, uh, or, or bus route or Apple or anybody else. We can... Mark them as trusted on thepodping.com. cloud host. And that will propagate and everyone else will inherit that trust. We can vote nodes off the island. Yeah, exactly. We love that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Um. So yeah, that's the initial idea.

1:08:17 And that's already in there, that code word. Like it. That's what it's gonna be, so, uh... I hope it works. It seems to be. We're depending on it. I've already got some stuff that's depending on that. signal so uh i love this man i love that we talked about a whole bunch of stuff and didn't once talk about uh 30 seconds is a play! I could I could so care less about that me too I gave everybody my idea And no one jumped on it, so it's good. What was I hearing? I wrote this down.

1:09:04 was it That was on, I think it was on. Hot News Weekly Review The indie middle class. I hate two words I hate. Indie. I hate the indie. Why do you hate? Why does that? bother you so much because You're a podcaster. There's no such thing as indie. That is being a podcaster. You are by definition independent if you're a podcaster. So now there's these, this is delineate. It's like open RSS. I despise that too. It's RSS, not open RSS. It's RSS. Because when you say indie podcaster, it means that the other ones who are not indie, those are the podcasters. Yeah, something like that.

1:09:46 Okay, I'm down with that. Well, it was an interesting conversation I heard. Yeah, so indie, the indie middle class, like, why don't you say indie middle class with one leg, okay? Thank you. Say that. I'll feel better. Did this conversation happen in the super secret WhatsApp group? No, this is on the, the, the, the, where was this? Power, a pod news power. Uh... which is 5,000 to 25,000 downloads a month. That's only 1% to 1.5% of all podcasts. So there you are. You were a podcaster, now you're an indie podcast, now you're 1%. And they can't survive on CPMs.

1:10:29 And what I liked about what the outcome of this is, is that, yeah, it's. Oh, this was that woman. Lush. Right, the... Lush. Yeah, yeah, yeah. um You know, instead of selling an audience number. I mean, like this, we have... I should probably look that up. How many people do you think listened to this board meeting? I should look that up. I haven't looked at OP3. Yeah, I'm going to look. Let's see. Long time. Take a guess. Do you even know what the OP3 link is? Yeah. Take a guess. What do you think it is? Over what time frame? What are we talking about? Monthly.

1:11:09 Just monthly, I guess. Like over 30 days or something? 2,500. Uh, this is interesting. Why can't I find us here? Oh, here we go. We're on the second page. What the heck is that? Okay. Uh, let's see. 2,500, you said? 2141. No, not seven days. 6658. So according to, that's May. Okay, so over 30 days we had 6,700 roughly. Yeah, so according to OP3, our unique audience in May was 5,247. So we're right in that indie range. Oh, cool. Nice. We're indie. But look at the value that we create. Look at the value that is running around in this ecosystem of people. We're firmly middle class. with one leg of people supporting the project, keeping it running, the joy we get for it. I mean, this is a hugely successful project and podcast in my mind. You know, we're not Rogan. But we don't have to be. And so the value that it creates. for the people. involved and for you and I personally is fantastic. This is a success story. If I remember correctly, that lady was all about brokering deals with advertisers. I know, but I – They only care about numbers. Right, but I have a different takeaway. My takeaway is. This

1:12:41 is what V for V is. It's not just about money. And I think that's hugely underplayed in all podcast reporting. It's all about money and seconds and plays and CPMs. Who cares? Podcasting. Don't call me an indie. Podcaster. See, this is the problem. We already have... controversy because yes because Daniel J Lewis says Don't confuse the number of downloads of multiple episodes with the number of people. Podcasting 2.0 looks to have about 1,800 regular listeners. Whatever. See, there's already, it's like the OP3 says you have 6,600 unique. 52. 5,200 unique listeners. And Daniel's like, no, you only have 1,800. There's already controversy. I don't care either way. I don't care. This, like... On the- on the- Just because it's a thing that we're talking about numbers. The- The how long a play is thing is meaningless because everything caches, not just web browsers. Web browsers aren't the only ones that cache audio and video. All decent... apps, cash, audio, and video. Every single one of them. You find out very quickly when you write a podcast app. that you can't not do it. You have to cash a few minutes. Yeah, exactly. At least a

1:14:12 minute and a half to two or three minutes because... When people go in and out of bad network connectivity, you have to... to be able to buffer through that. and Because that's why. We decided early on that Godcaster was going to send... a play button click once per user per hour. and a user is defined according to what um Um, Benjamin, Dan Benjamin and I. came up with a few years ago, the UL ID, the unique listener ID. So we generate a UL ID and send it with everyone and we deduplicate based on that. This is the problem with having only first party data collectors like YouTube and Spotify. inside this inside this group driving these technical definitions. Yeah, exactly. They can see the difference between a 30 millisecond play and a 30 second play, but no other podcast apps can. And that's the problem.

1:15:15 They don't have anybody from the world of podcast of. of podcast app developers in this little group. Now why would they? It's all BS. Why would they? And they're dead to me. I was a pirate radio broadcaster for half of my life. He had no, even when I was a radio broadcaster. They had no way to really know how many people were listening. It's statistics based upon people writing down in a diary. Oh yeah, I listened to that. I listened to that station. Listen. Oh yeah, yeah, sure. It's gotten a little more sophisticated. But that never mattered. I mean, it mattered to station managers later. What share do we have? Well, we went up a tenth of a point. Champagne! You know, okay. I never cared. It was the person who came up to me in the mall and said, hey, man, I heard your show. That was great. It's still that way. Yeah. It's still that way. You know, now... With Godcast, it's kind of interesting because all those stations, they live off of donations. And you know, yeah, okay. Yeah, it's, you can do some, it's interesting for programming the station, you know, what podcasts that are streamed out, what people listen to, what placement in the player, you know, and. But it doesn't excite me. What excites me is someone clicked on a give button to show that they were interested in supporting the station or the programming. And that's all that counts with no agenda. It's the same thing. I don't

1:16:46 care how many people listen. I really don't. People say, I'm quitting the show. Okay, whatever. I like when people announce that. I couldn't listen anymore. I unsubscribed. Subscribed. My nephew the other day sent me this video. And it's the Mr. Beast people talking about how they... how they in real time watch their metrics. Oh yeah, to fine tune what they're doing, absolutely. To fine tune their thumbnail. Mm-hmm. They can change the thumbnail on a video. hundred times or more over the lifetime of that video just tweaking the thumbnail and watching what it takes to to modify the curve of the of the you know feedback that they get or the plays Yeah. That is miserable.

1:17:42 Who wants that noise? No, we don't want that in podcasting. That's horrible. Does anybody want that? That's what metric-based, number-based... all this stuff work you know that's that's the way all this works and we don't nobody wants that no No. Here's how it works with no agenda. Hey, man, donations are down. Let's complain about it. Yeah, good idea. And then let's send out a newsletter with a sad puppy. And people go, oh, yeah, that's right, sad puppy. Yeah, I got to support those guys. And they do it. Sometimes on this show, we don't even read donations. Let's do it right now. we forget. Well, we have a couple of boosts that have been coming in.

1:18:24 Let's see. Oh, there's Martin Lindeskog. Wow, thank you. 11,235 sats coming in from the true fans. Happy Midsummer. Adam, have you had matcha sharing? What is that? Virgin Herring That's Norwegian. That's not Dutch. I think it's Norwegian. Here's a Fibonacci sequence. Okay, you just whipsawed me. 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5. Boostergram. Oh, okay. With 11,235. Oh, it's a Fibonacci boost. Okay, gotcha. Thank you. Virgin herring? Do they taste different once they've been around the block?

1:19:06 I think there's something... In Holland, we have... Bye. The Dutch New Which means it's the first herring of the season. It's really good. And we eat that. They basically, they cure it in salt. So for all intents and purposes, it's raw. But it's been heated up a bit in salt, and you eat it with onions, and you hold it by the tail, and just... *laughs* This sounds so good. Gross, man. No, knock it till you tried it, man. I don't like anything. 79, 22 from a salty crayon. Howdy, Dave and Adam was going back to episode 68 to 75. Who does that? - A lot of good server juice for new people just from 2022 timeframe about podcasting 2.0 and V4V. Highly recommended people go back these early discussions. All right. There you go. There's your recommendation. There's Dreb Scott with 10,000 sats. Go podcasting. uh here's another one that came in from this is lyceum again oh okay 1701 Doing a test boost program before the live stream. Fascinating how open the podcasting industry is, including the friendly company. I've now been podcasting for 20 years on my first podcast, Ego Netcast, starting on Prodo's Solid Vox Philosophical Podcast Network. then blog talk radio and after that libsyn for many years and then moving to

1:20:37 captivate and now for a short period fountain. The next home for my podcast will be Beamley. formerly known as podcastpage.io, Spaceship 1701 Satoshis. Okay, beam. Uh, Beamley? Just, I just gave them a pod ping token, so they should be starting pod pings. soon. Nice. Let's see, and... And we have a fountain user 940187348888328. Got to change your username. With 2,693 sats from fountain. Thank you very much. And then a couple of, these will probably show up on your list. Eric BP. with a couple of test boosts, which is appreciated. All right. We got some PayPal.

1:21:29 We got Lauren Ball, $24.20. Very nice. Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you. Mitchell Downey. That's probably what his mom calls him. $10? Thank you. When she's mad at him. Mitchell Downey! Mitchell Robert Downey or whatever his middle name is. I can't think of a good middle name for Mitch. Robert, that sounds like he's probably it. Christopher Harabaric, $10. Thank you, Christopher. Uhhhh... Let's see. We got another one here. He said, Damon Kassajak, $15. Thank you. Terry Keller, five bucks. Christopher Cowan, $5. Silicon Florist, $10. Thank you. Appreciate that. Very appreciated, all of you. These small numbers add up. That's one server right there. One crawler.

1:22:22 Absolutely. We got Derek J. Visker. The best name in podcasting, $21. Paul Saltzman, $22.22, like a rock, every single month. Thank you. Jeremy Gertz, $5. Michael Hall, $5. And 50 cents. Jean Liverman, $5. Thank you, Jean. And also, Jean, thank you for running your... monitor. He runs, him and Archie both run uptime monitors for the index. Oh, very helpful. Very helpful. Todd Cochran? May he rest in peace. $30. Thank you, Todd. boosting from heaven everybody yeah like that If he can boost all the way from heaven, what's your excuse? Thank you. What's your excuse? Exactly.

1:23:16 Uh, Timothy Voice? Ten dollars? So, look at what we got. Look at this. Buzzsprout, $1,000. Baller, shot caller, 20-inch blades on the Impala. Keeping it alive. Thank you so much, boys and girls from Buzzsprout. I truly appreciate that. That support is just... Phenomenal. So we got, oh. That's it. We got a comic strip blogger. Yes. 24,000. We missed him last week. He's like, what happened? What happened? I told you. I told you he would be the most mad. He was like the string cut off. That was the end of the show, bro. We just ended.

1:23:58 Sorry. I'm going to be on his AI Arch Wizard podcast Sunday night. Ah, nice. Yeah, I'm glad you're doing that. I really want to do it. It's been a little crazy. I'm going to set it up. I got to do it. I got to do it. I got to put it on my list. Let's see, we got Comstreet Bugger, 24,000 sass through fountain. He says. Howdy Dave and Adam. Please subscribe to YouTube channel. Wait, YouTube? This not podcasting? No. I'm calling a yellow card on that. Howdy Dave and Adam. Please subscribe to YouTube channel, youtube.com slash... At symbol, Roger Nash. where my pal from Wales, Roger Nash, who is Alki, is reviewing... Alki? Alki? Is reviewing and talking about beer and stuff. Recently, he added AI-generated timestamps, so topic jumping easier. Yo, CSB, AI Arch Wizard. All right, CSB. Thank you. Topic jumping through an Alki podcast. Sounds exciting. That's it. That's our guys. That's it. All right. Well, look at that. With one minute and 30 seconds to spare. Oh, well, we got plenty of time for another topic. No, I think we're good.

1:25:17 I think we've covered a lot. What are you doing this weekend, brother? You're going to be hanging out? My wife is in Canada. - Dave's house! - Come on over. Now she's in Prince Edward Island for a conference. - Nice. Oh, excellent. So you gotta cook, are you gonna actually cook or you're getting pizza? Pizza is the most likely outcome of those choices. We have one Chinese restaurant in Fredericksburg called Panda. It's not Panda Express, but... It's called, I love going there. Is it good or is it like cheap? Oh, it's so good. Oh, no. It's phenomenal. Yeah, and they're all OG Chinese who have lived in Fredericksburg for 25... The restaurant's been here for 20 years. Oh, wow. Yeah. So is it like a full-on Szechuan style? Everything. Oh, yeah. And the whole interior, everything. It's crazy. and he doesn't like chinese sushi well that's japanese i'm sorry you know this oh yeah please don't don't get your people confused it's asian come on hey why do they even have driver's licenses that say brown hair brown eyes and brown hair come on let's uh let's be honest I am very racist. All right, brother. Well, you have yourself a good one. Get yourself a pizza. Boardroom, thank you very much for being here as always. Thank you for being a part of this

1:26:48 wonderful project. And we look forward to doing it all again on Friday next week where we tell you everything that's going on in podcasting and whatever else is on our mind. listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit podcastindex.org for more information. Go podcasting! my nuts.