Episode 81: Nodes of Joy

0:00 Oh, podcasting 2.0 For April 9 2020, to Episode 81 We've got notes of joy. Yeah, I've got a report from the front lines you see. Hello, everybody. Welcome to podcasting 2.0. This is the official board meeting of podcasting to point out where we discuss the podcast standards. We talk about everything happening at podcast index dot social, and of course, a report from the front lines of the value for value. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the pope of polars. My friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, please say hello to Mr. Dave Jones. The polar code? Yes. Yeah, you are the pope of polars. I feel like a real podcaster for the first time in my life, but Right, right, this very minute. Okay, let's, let's, let's explore this feeling. It's it's really simple. not complicated at all.

0:59 I put on pants, like 30 minutes before the show started. Now, you know, I mean, you'll you'll get used to just not even doing that. I mean, obviously, I'm not wearing my pants because you know, I'm a veteran veteran. podcaster okay, you're a newbie, though. I'm glad you have that feeling. I really struggled with it. I was like, in my in my pajamas, or don't want to actually put on pants. And the pants worn out. I was like, you know, I want to feel like a professional. I'm a fan. We're live. We're live streaming. And I think it's still curio cast are the one that has all the signaling anyone else implement that? Yeah. No, that's a problem to me. Like this. Live needs to be in everything. Everything. Yeah, well, I mean, we're just getting started. So people need to see the beauty of it. And of course, the helipad is live, you want to boost? While we're doing this.

1:56 And we are one day late for our regular board meeting, which is something I don't like doing at all. People tend to schedule their lives around podcasts. Which is no, this is the first week that since we've been doing this show that I've really wished that we had did it was like twice a week, because there was so much stuff. I mean, we just got a pile of things here. And I felt like a lot of reading like a lot of spec specs and protocols and all this in proposals and there's just so much going on this week and your as your escapades around know, around the world. Yeah. Like how am i How deep are we? Okay?

2:42 How far am I allowed to ask you about your vacation? Oh, as much as you open for business, of course. I mean, I don't I don't want to pre you know, preempt the no agenda show tomorrow. So I didn't want to get too deep. But please ask me ask me. I care. I'm ready to tell tales. Number one, on a on a scale of one to 10 Overall, the C one being a go into the dentist in 10 being like the greatest vacation you've ever had. What was what? Write this?

3:28 It's it didn't qualify as a vacation. I'm more tired now than before I left. I think that was my first comment. Like hey, do you need a vacation? Yes, I do. I'll just explain briefly what happened we were supposed to go to Aruba. This was we wanted to go to an island we wanted it to be you know not too far away. We just wanted to be the resort just chill out just be served drinks on the beach. That's basically all we care about. And we booked everything well in advance and you know Tina had she likes to plan all the Okay, we're gonna do the dinner on the beach and we're gonna do this and that tequila to not tequila tasting was wrong or whatever. And we'll have this restaurant and she has all outfits planned and you know because we do it once a year we do a big trip because I have to do best of shows and it's you know, we can we travel we can travel frequently, but you know, then I'm always working. I'm always taking the rig with me I'm always prepping etc. Now there's the dog's time you didn't do any of that you didn't really get or anything No, no, I mean, I Well, I still had to best of shows that I had to upload you know, gotta gotta do the RSS feed got to hit the pod ping got to do the tweaks. But that's that's okay. And it's like a half hours worth of work two times during the vacation. But it's just it's more that I don't have to be paying attention everything the world will still be there when I get back is you know, so I don't have to be looking at what's going on.

4:57 So we had a we Now we knew that the airports could be busy knowing that from our no agenda producers, you never want to book something in the last week of the month because of the shortage of pilots. When they run out of their 100 hours a month, that's when flights get canceled. And we and we saw massive problems, especially at Austin. Bergstrom, people were abandoning their rental cars. This was a couple days before we were supposed to leave and we were gonna leave from San Antonio's nicer, nice airport. ominous sign, by the way, right. And it was American Airlines. So we are just about to get in the car at 3am. And by the way, so Thursday, I did no agenda than you and I did the board meeting. I slept for a couple hours and boom, we're in the car. Just getting into the car flight canceled. We've rebooked you for tomorrow. So we're already like holy crap, okay. And, and there's no other routing.

5:57 There's nothing else to do. And then we're supposed to go from Miami to Miami, Miami to Aruba and they rebooked us for the next day on Saturday through North Carolina, okay. Okay. So, you know, and but no, of course I'm up until like six you're talking to airlines and trying to figure everything out. So a little tired, but then we get up the next day. I mean, we're getting up to get in the car at three 315 Boom flight canceled the flight from North Carolina to Aruba. Don't worry, we'll fly to North Carolina you stay two nights and then you can still get to Aruba. And we look at each other like nah, this is not gonna happen. And this is a disappointment. So we go we go back. Now we just like talking Let's just sleep for a little bit. And to what what can we do? We just wanted to just want to beach. Let's just go to Florida. Very difficult to find anything that was even affordable, strangely enough. So we wind up at a Marriott place in Fort Lauderdale. I know. It's, it sounds exactly as what it was. It was hanging hanging out right there for a second though. When you say hard to find anything even even affordable. Is that because like that mean? That's all lack of staff and inflation and as Yes. Well, the prices is inflation. If you want a like a room that you want to stay in for a few days, a minimum $800 A Night at any kind of reasonably quality Hotel. Now

7:31 you want to go upscale you want to go four seasons, two and a half $1,000 A night that's not a sweet night. Yep. But but but that wasn't even the price of that. And I'll tell you we were in the Ritz Carlton which is owned by Marriott it's it's yeah, it used to be a really big name it's okay. The staff that was there was phenomenal. They actually saved anything for us. But I mean the the rooms Weren't they had no staff they the nothing was clean the the pool area was not nothing was was just dirty. There's cigarette butts everywhere takes forever to get anybody to even bring you even ask if you want to drink. I mean, it was it was the longest four days ever. It was just like and by the way we so in order to get there we had to go to Austin stay at the airport Hilton Hotel to be in line at 4am for the two and a half hours to get through security because they don't have any. There's not enough TSA agents they need 100 Extra agents in Austin they can't get people to work. So this is the collapse of the system it is upon us Yeah, this is this is what I think this is what I said to you the other day lesson learned to do not take a vacation during the during the downfall of civilization. And I didn't I actually thought and I joked about it said well I didn't let's go now because I think she's gonna start falling apart pretty soon and it came

9:03 before I even expected it and everyone's talking about it everybody like people just don't want to work and I understand because you know what wound up wound up happening is so we're kind of like this is sucks and Tina to schedule the full day of massage and everything and he said why don't you once you call once you call max and Stacy if you can still get on that panel at the Bitcoin 2022 Which, you know, they had asked me but I declined because we're on vacation. I was I was supposed to go anyway, but I just needed the break so far already have so we already had tickets like yeah, we bought tickets last year. Yeah. And I couldn't. I couldn't go because it's it's right in the heart of crunch time of Texas. Right. And then you and then you ended up having a conflict with your vacation.

9:54 So we ended up we had the tickets but we couldn't go so you felt you were like able to fall back Have you already had a ticket? Yes. And so, Max and Stacy were like, Oh, this is great. We'd love to Okay, fantastic. We'll take care of you. We'll get you over there. As so the panel was bitcoin is fu money. And it was it was this. This I guess, Boxer who's from Cameroon but I think he boxes in. In Vegas. He's a big attract. He's very famous. They're in a world. His His arm was bigger than my head. St. Francis, very nice guy. But he was on crutches so you could probably easily easily. Now funny enough Dave Portnoy from Barstool Sports. He was supposed to be on the panel. And then me and right before we started, Portnoy just said, I don't feel like it. And he just he just said, No, I'm not going to do it. Which was really odd. Oh, so he was there. He just he was oh, yeah, he's just like, Man, I want to do it. Now. Well, they're big. They're big podcast publisher.

11:05 Thank you sold Barstool Sports I'm not quite sure I don't know exactly your story. But I don't know I don't know why he Why didn't want to show it. So yeah, there's a there's a YouTube video that people can can see that but but more important to me and that was really the reason to go is Roy breeze I was in town and and I love just sitting down with Roy and hanging out with him and getting the an alternative view to the world of lightning and Bitcoin to what I think we typically hear in like the venture funded land roll is like he's like the PhD of Bitcoin.

11:48 Like just didn't say lightning. I mean, really, like lightning is so his wheelhouse and he just knows what yet all the players what everybody's doing. And, but also there were I knew that Oscar Mary would be there. So I also wanted to connect with Oscar so we could chat about comments and booster grams, etc. So but getting it the conference, this is the this is what I really want everyone to know. I would just walk through just from what I couldn't walk, people kept stopping me and saying, Hey, man, podcasting. 2.0 Which was cool. On one hand was really great. On the other hand, I wish they were talking more about value for value.

12:32 You know, but just, um, just identifying what it was. It was it was so crazy. And I think the reason why people were stopping me is because I saw you on Rogan, right? Sorry on Rogen. Yeah, you almost orange pilled him but, you know, so then I'm hanging out with Roy and and he's introducing all kinds of interesting people like the block stream people and, and other the guy from Bitcoin beach and some other people. And Roy will be talking about podcasting. 2.0 And these people didn't even know that I was involved.

13:13 Oh, see, which is exact versus what I want, you know, different from last year because last year when nobody knew what podcasting 2.0 Last year, okay, here's the difference. Last year, we stood in line for two hours in the blazing heat. This year, they gave me a pass and a whale bracelet. Nice. Which is pretty. It's pretty much a emotional just put a target on my head. That's like, hey, kidnap me or shoot me or do whatever you know, or, Hey, we need any key managers on us. Kidnapping insurance, right? Hate me. I just don't have one that says plebs. I would much much more prefer that ring of fire. Yeah.

13:56 So let me let me first talk about Oscar. And I forgotten okay, but let me let me let me ask you one thing real quick. Yeah. Oscar. Is he tall or short? He's about in between you and I. Okay, all right. Okay, so he's standard SAS. He's standard issue. Yes. And I forget his, his business partners name. I feel like an idiot now. Nice guy. Nick, Nick. Want to say was just to set the stage here. So actually, let me go back for a second. So and I'll talk about what was Roy and I had lunch and we learned a lot and a lot of cool shit to discuss. And then we went back and I said, Roy, why don't you just come with me and go to the and stay in the green room. And so you can sit there there's there's drinks, it's you know, there's good. There's a great TV. You don't have to sit in the audience to sit back here and watch it all.

14:58 It's cool. He's like, fantastic. And this was, you know, they had a proper greenroom. It was a very, very big venues. And it was incredible to see all the technology they had for video of every single stage it was, this thing is big and well done. And so we do the do the panel, and it's 25 minutes and I get off the stage and there's Roy, let's say, What do you think, man? He said, Well, I saw only the first five minutes because then Jack Mahler's security detail came in and said everybody has to leave the green room. You can't be here when Jack is here. Whoa, and I lost my shirt. I lost my shit. I said Who the fuck I mean even like especially in entertainment show business world this is not done to green room as a safe space for all I was just like oh my god. I was that guy all about like Joe Rogan has security you don't see his guys you know it's like I have dinner with Joe is guys their buddies in the back somewhere you know see him and it's just it's none of this clearing it out or it's like what the fuck?

16:11 That's a little weird. Very disappointing. Very disappointing. You know we were little were a little worried about that last year with all you know, he's you know, with a Lambo and all that stuff. I mean, like it's there's a little bit of something going on there that I don't understand the only other thing I could I could think that it is because he comes from an incredibly powerful wealthy commodities trading family like Chicago Board of exchange and you know, that's he is his involvement and the people and the company's backing a strike are not by accident. So it's possible that this is you know, there are lots of lots of very wealthy families who act like this and have security details that do this stuff because I know them so it's possible that it's not him making that decision he just doesn't have a choice this like this is always right. But I will also say all of the children of those families that I know that act like that turned out to be dickheads so he doesn't need to be careful. Doesn't need to be careful. Anyway, so then we then we went to the like the VIP how man I wish I recorded this there was a VIP lounge where you know, speakers lounge, and it was sponsored by some trading platform that does NF T's and blah blah blah. And then the CEO comes up to me oh my god, you would have laughed your ass off at this takes it but what do you guys do? I said no podcasting to point out. Oh, yeah. You know,

17:43 Norm Pattice from Westeros my best guy pockets my best friend podcast why I do a lot of stuff with podcasts are so what are you doing? So we do streaming payments and Bitcoin and podcasting? 2.0 Yeah, who's making a lot of money with that? Who did anyone making any money? To? Yeah, me. I just fucking just threw it out there. Like this guy? Oh, yeah. Well, you know, podcast, too, you know. Um, so what, what do you do then? What do you do? So Well, first of all, I invented it. And it was me. It doesn't translate you have to be that I just this guy was such the epitome of like a venture capital aihole. Ah. And you're at that point, you're, you're looking at the watch and saying I could have been in Aruba right now. I'm, I'm looking at Roy. Roy's eyes are like, What the hell is going on here?

18:35 So then subsequently, everywhere, Rhode Island said, Oh, let me hold on to the door for you. Because you're celebrity. Oh, let's go to lunch. But do you need an Uber XL because you know your celebrity. Got a good time. Nice. But then. So I said to Oscar and I just partisan. Come on up here. And we sat down and we chatted great chat. Oscars thought thought through all this. And did Roy and Oscar get get to chat? Absolutely. Oh, yeah. No, we were we were all chatting together. Now. It was good. It was really good. And of course, there's going to be crossover there. Because fountain needs a different as everybody does, we need noncustodial wallet solutions. So that we don't have to deal with. I mean, the way you know the way Roy explains it, to me really, anyone having an app in the store that has something like the systems that we have is kind of a fluke.

19:36 Unless you unless you unless you have a money transmitter license or some shit like that. So you sent me you sent me an article that he wrote, is that public now? I mean, I said yes. So so that I mean, that pretty much outlines what their plans are well, so Exactly. So there's and also, voltage also has a similar type, initiative and product. So okay, But I'd like to explain it from from the from the breeze perspective. And the link to the article is in the show notes. And what was it called? A new breeze, multiple apps remote odes nodes, optimal, optimal UX.

20:17 He's got let me write the titles. Yeah. So the basically, a breeze has always been a an LSP, a lightning service provider with the breeze app, as an example of what you can do with a company that manages liquidity manages channels manages the swaps from on chain and off chain, really a transactional system. So not a hodling type system, but something that you can use continuously. And when you think about it, for for value for value. breezes, a very interesting onboarding experience, because you get the app you can buy right in the app from moon. Now, your results may vary. But you can buy it for moon and it pops right into your wallet as as lightning and good to go. So the the onboarding is really nice. Now, there's all kinds of issues with having a full node on your mobile device. And there's lots of things that just don't work.

21:22 And also it makes your phone hot drains your battery. And your Android. Android is the first one to make jokes about this. So he's teamed up with block stream who do the C lightning implementation? And well, very well funded. I have no idea they have lots. No, they have lots of money. I think they have something like I saw some sort of investment thing that they had few months ago, and it was like $300 million. Isn't the Wow, lots of money. Yeah. Ah, when we crap, yeah, they got they got big money. So now, Roy has teamed with them. And I'm just going to get kind of given it in a nutshell, because the details you can go really far down the hall. But the idea is, you do have a cloud based node, which will be able to receive any type of payment, including a key send, even if your mobile client where you have your keys is not, in fact, they've all even devised a way where two offline. Mobile devices could do a transaction offline. I mean, it's it's really quite incredible. The point being that you can have all the functionality of a lightning service provider with all of these six security and responsibility of having a self hosted door noncustodial wallet.

22:51 Right. So they're hosting the they're hosting the infrastructure, but it's not custodial. Because you have you own the keys correct. And there's and there's other things in the receiving with HTML, CSS, and nodes and then or channels in the middle that makes the receiving side just as secure. I can't really explain it. But bottom line, what breeds so the breeze app that we see today has always been an example of what you can do. But Roy's real business is he wants to provide an API for basically the Gmail of wallets without without the you know, the the lock in the spying, etc. But it should be as easy as saying, I want a wallet, there's your wallet. And then you're good to go. Basically, everything else is taken care of.

23:40 From what I understand it will cost you nothing, of course just like breeze the app now, you pay in fees, like the way it should be the way services are supposed to work. And you know, so this will be we can spin this up for almost anything. Interesting. That's a really that's a really cool idea. Yeah. Now, is this all based on? This is based on? Is this based on watch towers? Or is this the what it's called Greenlight? Which is a product that the block stream has. And it's, I think, yes, there's some Watchtower stuff in there, but I can't answer the question. I really can't. It. You know, we need to get Roy on to explain it when he's when he's ready to explain it. What's what's there? Did he have a timeline yet? Or is it just well, when when he first told us about it, because we have known that this was coming? He said six months? So I'd say six months.

24:48 We're still six months out. Now voltage, who we currently use for our for our index node and I have other nodes there and lots of people are using it too. So they are also Going now voltage looks like, from what I'm seeing there will also be a lightning service provider, but seems more like on an industrial scale just from the release. I mean, holy crap, the amount of stuff that that will be done with voltage. I mean, it was I, did you get to meet? Do you get to meet up with the grandmas? Oh, no, no, because I really wanted to be in and go out. And I thought Tina would have her day of massage and then by the pool, and of course, it was thunder and lightning in Fort Lauderdale.

25:33 She was in the room, which is like, I gotta go, I gotta go back. I gotta go be with my girl, because she was doing filter videos on on Instagram. That's you gotta go save the woman once that's happening. Oh, my God, something's wrong. She's sorry, she sent me this, this comp collage of her with no big lips and exaggerated eyelashes and like, Oh, my God, my wife is in trouble. I have to. I actually said to Roy, I gotta go, man, I gotta get the intervention. So I'm terrible. So I'm really excited about that, because that fixes so many problems for for apps. And for podcasters. I mean, imagine, just, hey, podcaster wallet.com, you ready to go just hit the button, and we spin one up for you. You know, here's different versions, you know, here's a, an all of the as, as I said, all of this channel balancing all of that shit is going to go away.

26:38 Unless you really want to do it, that's fine. We'll see that we'll that's the sign of a good. That's a sign of a technology. That's that's the thing you want. So it is a thing where you can you can aggregate it into an industrial type product and say, Okay, here's we're going to provide this as a service to many people in a sort of semi hosted way or semi custodial way, is not add on ease that works nicely with custodial. It's non custodial. But it's, it's it's custodial infrastructure. Without custodial ownership. Buyers, yes. Obviously, just like my Umbral node, which decided to ship the bed while I was in Florida, you know, I wasn't able to access it. So I lost three days of payments and booths on this particular node that can happen in any cloud infrastructure to although it's more likely, it'll get fixed, yeah, it'll get fixed. So that's kind of the beauty, the beauty of it. And it's not just if something is up or down. It's the liquidity and the management of it. That's, that's what we argue about most. And the most, the biggest problem is my channel, this and that, and the tour and whatever. Well, I've been here and I've been I've been helping, I helped three people in Macedon DNS this week, with on bra line, liquidity channels, all of these things. I mean, it's sort of like a constant background noise of, of the podcasting 2.0 project is trying to make sure all this stuff gets managed properly. And the end the promise, I think

28:10 this is the breeze promise, which I like a lot is, at any moment, if you want, you can take your whole kit and caboodle and migrate it right over to your own home setup. See, that's killer. Yeah, that's killer. If you know, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Or if this is the sign of a technology that meets all your criteria, because you can run it at scale, and make it super easy. But then if you want it, but if you want to bail out and do it yourself all in an umbrella on a Raspberry Pi and your home, you can do that, too. I want you you have to have both because if you're you know a podcaster in the US and part of the world is going to be at odds on you all the time. You probably want to run that thing and you know yourself. Yeah, but in because you voted but if you if you're in a more open culture, then you can run it and have it easier. I don't know. I like this. I like the word the direction this is all going. I feel really really bullish about it. And there were a lot of lightning announcements, you know, all kinds of magic things will happen. You know, you pay for your burger with lightning and lots Now what was interesting.

29:18 Was this announcement from lightning labs. Who Yeah, who I think signed a slavery contract. Oh, no. Yeah, well, they it was a $70 million Series B. And they raised this money and the money is intended for them to bring this Tarot product to the market. And Tarot I forget what the acronym stands for. will enable the Lightning Network to use stable coins while settling in Bitcoin?

30:00 The Tarot is it's got something to do with tap root. Yeah, I got it here in the show notes to Tarot is calling us Tarot stable coin protocol. Yes, the taproot asset representation overlay, it's NF t's on lightning is what it is. Yes. Thank you. Well, it's funny because when I said to Roy, isn't this just about NF T's? He said, No, no, no, not necessarily. But you know, it's, we don't know exactly what stable coin is intended, or they intend to use. And I just did what I always do. And I just go look at who where's this money coming from? And I just wanted to share that. I wanted to share that for a moment. So this is from the valor equity partners was the lead on this on this round.

30:56 Now, again, they have a very, they have a big portfolio of all kinds, they do food, you know, like food technology, all kinds of stuff I'm against. But yeah, I just want to read the, the bio of Constantine Saab, who is the Managing Director and Chief Technology Officer, which I think would be a I think that's a major player, wouldn't you agree? I agree. Yes. Until November 2018. Acosta held number leadership positions at the Central Intelligence Agency, including Chief Strategy Officer member of CIA's corporate board Acting Assistant Director, Center, Chief of Operations and other senior executive and operations positions, Black Ops, prior to joining the CIA in early 2001.

31:44 Hello 911. Kosta was a consultant and entrepreneur in the management consulting and technology space. This is a major spook. This is not this is not a small spook. This is a major book. Did you say that he is the Chief Strategy Officer of CES Chief Strategy Officer member of the CIA's corporate board in Q tel. Acting Assistant Director, acting assistant director of CIA and Center Chief of Operations Hey gang, now you you have a people need to understand this that you have you have standing in this area to intelligence, intelligence analysis my entire my entire family. My entire family is either CIA or military. Yeah, so you can spy you anytime there's spot to spook you win. Oh, hold on a second. I should have I should have had this one ready.

32:45 I guess most people have heard this one before our spot the spook here it is. A spa the spook spot to spook everybody wants to spoon. Yeah, yeah, you win. I mean, it when when it comes to spot dispute, you always win. So you have standing in this area, but you know, it's is the Lightning Network is that now? You know, it's the CIA now embedding with their stable coin. This is my question. Maybe? I don't know. I mean, it could just be coincidence. I love my family to you know, I have no hate. I have no hate for CIA. It's just you know, it's like something that the press might want to pick up on. The other investors bait, Bailey Gifford. Yeah.

33:36 Pretty interesting. Arsenal here as well. Yeah, this is this is big. This is big money. And I don't know. I don't know what to think about it. But I hope it doesn't take them off the ball and bail and to where they just like, you know? Well, I do. I hope that I don't I don't really know, I don't know that I care that much. Because if you have, if you have an open implementation mean, the lightning protocol now exists, and you can see anything and what I think what I think we're seeing, what I think we're seeing happening is lightning Labs is probably honing their development more towards finance users. And yeah, I mean, obviously just big finance, maybe maybe the NF T's I don't know, according to Roy the spec, he says the spec is genius, to the way it was written. And so he's, he doesn't hate it. Roy doesn't, but Roy said Roy worries about liquidity. So where what is the liquidity of the Lightning Network going to be? Is that just going to be stable coins? No, no one really knows how this whole rollout and I don't think it's we're anywhere near this rolling out at all. But when you get $70 million, and it's intended to bring this to market, you're going to be focused on that.

34:52 That's just it. You have to Yeah, Where's where's the see lightning? Seems like they're more into said in what we're doing, and in that LDK to that to know that the block thing? Yeah, I've not many people talking to me about, about blocking their and their LDK? I don't know much about that. It's available, though. So it's not it's not. I mean, I guess what I'm saying is it's not just lnd. Now, I mean, there are other Yeah. Oh, yeah, no, there's other implementations. Right. So I mean, it was overall, just incredibly exciting to hear that this is all coming. And you know, we knew it. It's just I think it's happening very fast. So that's fantastic. And it's going to really open up a lot. I mean, my head is spinning with ideas that what we can do with with, you know, really with our scriptable broadcast money. I mean, there's just so many cool things we can start to do now. And I would like I mean, I can go, I can come up with ideas forever.

35:59 I don't want to do it right now. Let's talk about some podcasting stuff. Well, let me tell you about the conversation with Oscar. Oh, yeah. Yes. The pod. Yeah. That'd be the podcasting stuff. Of this, of this visit, of this flavor of this. Yes. So what, what Oscar proposed and what I think is fantastic. He said, Okay, we're going to change comments to boosts. And we'll see if we can get a visibility flag in the value block in the value tag, which would by default, be no or off, then I think we've pretty much solved the issue. Okay.

36:47 Now, he wants to keep the the booster grams threaded for now the way they are. But he recognizes that this is not a you know, this is not a way forward because there's no feedback to you know, heli pad doesn't understand when something comes in, etc. So that that's stuff that maybe we'll just shake out as we start to implement real comments. I don't know. I mean, I there's, in general, I love the idea of doing much, much more with booster grams and making it two way etc. I think the most important thing is just to a not call it lightning comments, I think we all agree that that's not a good idea. And to actually not call it comments at all, but booster grams, and in this particular implementation and fountain, they, they you can surface them. But that doesn't need to be and he agrees that that's podcaster preference.

37:46 So I don't know how we go back and and fix that tag if everyone agrees, if that's if there's a better way of doing it. But that that's kind of what we discussed. I think it's I don't think it's a hard fix. No, it's not it's more of a it's an evolution. It's not a we can just because anytime you introduce a new attribute, that's not a big deal, because you just default it to the way it was without the attribute. And then you're done. Okay, the default is no. And if the attribute doesn't exist, we assume no. And just incremental. Yeah. Okay, that's, of course, da. It's not a, it's not a problem at all. We can do in depth what we can do that in Phase Five.

38:28 Make a note of that early. So that Yeah, I mean, and it was, it was great. It was nice to meet him in person. And, and yeah, we both agree that we everyone had gotten a little heated and a little. Everyone had gotten over their skis in one way to including me. So it was it was, it was a really beautiful moment, because it was something that rarely happens, as you explained or expressed in the previous episode. Typically, these things you know, people get pissed off, there's a fork, you know, shit fails, there's Yeah, you know, there's families fall apart, divorces, all kinds of things happen. And then and it got resolved is beautiful.

39:09 And I think and I think, I think this is because of the actual speech part of what we're doing. Because everybody was able to talk we were able to talk about it on on, on this podcast, you know, just the open dialogue, no one being in charge of who can say what I think made this work. The being a, having that as having open free, free speech idea as just one of your core principles and a project means that people have to suck it up. And you have to say, Okay, if if you can, if one of your core principles is you don't silence other people's, you know, speech well then when people say things you don't like you just got to put your big boy pants on and so it's finalizing the the A Bitcoin 2022. I think I made I think I did a pretty damn good of promoting what we're doing on stage. Yes, you did. That was good. Yeah, it was good. And I and I will say that I promoted Bri specifically, because I wanted to see what the response would be. And Roy said that definitely, there were more downloads, but also, of course, a new podcast apps.com and podcaster wallet.com as well.

40:30 PLSS I wouldn't say that I've seen an increase in Oh, no, it was an activity, but isn't, is about normal. I'm curious if anyone else saw any, any activity, but most important, that message I have is the value for value part of of, of the namespace and, and kind of what falls under podcasting. 2.0 which is a project you know, pod paying is a part of that namespace, which we'll talk about in a second. No matter what it is. And you may not be big into into Bitcoin or value for value. Just keep your eyes open, because it is bringing people in. I mean, this is what I saw people like, oh, shit, oh, yeah, podcast.

41:13 2.0. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They've all heard about it. And it's, it is onboarding people. So if that's a hook to get people to enjoy other things, you know, that's worth considering? Well, I mean, listening to pod land the other day, and jam in, and I actually written this down, James made a comment. He's talking about YouTube, but he said anything is, quote, anything that has the capability of growing, the medium is a good thing, and nothing, unquote. And I think this absolutely qualifies as growing the medium. You know, when you bring in when you bring in new, new people, especially people and witnesses that are willing to support the podcasters that they listen to, well, that's even better. I mean, like, you know, these are, I don't want to, say paying customers, but I mean, people that would rather describe it as people who are willing to, to put their money up to support the people that they listen to, so that those things don't go away. Now, I too, listen to pod land, and I'm thinking of breaking up with POD land.

42:20 Because now they scoff scoff at me. scoff at me when I say that? I just disagree with the discoverability. And instead of getting a counter argument I get when I disagree with that, too, yeah, what am I actually gonna I've got a blog post in the word use all that stuff that I ripped out of the last blog post but yes, there's gonna be another asset that article to you and you're in a It was literally like, 5000 words, it was like a Glenn Greenwald order. That was exactly what I didn't want to say it to you. But I was like, man, you gotta change the title, shorten it up. I can handle it. That's Watson, this wasn't in your head. So I ripped all of that stuff out. That's going to be the next. And the only and the and what I think people are missing is, I just disagree with letting a company like alphabet or YouTube, Google, own your audience. And I just I fundamentally disagree. And I know the problem from experience is all of a sudden your audience starts to congeal somewhere and you have no control over. It could be, you know, on on Twitter, it can be on Facebook, it can be on YouTube, it can be anywhere, but you don't really control it. And you know, that's it always ends sad. Well, everybody got, I mean, everybody has been pissed off in some shape, form or fashion, again, at Spotify over the last three to five years. Since they got

43:52 into this and in for one thing or another. Wait until YouTube can I'm talking about people in the independent open podcasting ecosystem. Wait till YouTube really decides to get into this game. And you will see what real Google doesn't play. If they did. If they put the ISR on on your industry. They can crush it if they want to. Here's the problem I have with all this. And this does come from listening to pod land. I hear the industry is doing great. Everything is up. Everyone's revenue is increasing. 40 50% It's fantastic. This is going so well. YouTube's gonna get into this. There's a billion dollar industry. How is it that every single one of these companies is losing money? Yeah, a caseloads like $30 million, or something like that. Yeah, I agree why they're losing money. And of course, the answer is, well, they're investing in podcasting.

44:54 How how do you need if there's a billion dollars in the marketplace? billion dollars, and you have the big podcasters? How come you're not attracting that money? Is it really a billion dollars? where's that going to? Is it split with radio ads somehow? And it's being attributed a little? I don't know. But this feels wrong. And if you have a mature, a very mature marketplace of content, and what do you need to invest in? Then you're pricing it wrong. If if you are paying more to your podcast that you're acquiring, then you can make off of them. What is this? How long do you have to wait before the network effect kicks in? And I just come back to what I've said, since I tried it myself.

45:44 You cannot monetize the network. And now we see these groups within Spotify that they're going to go on strike. And it's all because there's gonna be fun to watch because they're pissed off because Oh, we didn't get the ads. You know, we got the wrong ads. You forced us to read this. We don't get any promotion. The CEO hates us. I've been through this. It does not work is at least I haven't seen it work. I couldn't make it work. Well, cotton gin in the chat says well, and then they abandon it. Okay. Speaking about Yes, Google. Yes. Basically two abandoned things. But my my point is that the the danger of YouTube getting into podcasting is not that they abandon it. The danger of YouTube getting into podcasting, is that they laser focus on it. And at that point, it could, it could really, they already have such a dominant position in media, they really could, if they wanted to damage, do major damage to the open podcasting ecosystem, they could suck out so many creators into exclusive deals. Even at a loss. Yeah, but at a huge way more than Spotify can. So there it is, this is why they will give up on it. If they ever really implemented this.

47:02 It would have to be an ego play. For them, for them to really do it, because they will not make money. This YouTube makes money on cat videos and and children children videos, you know, and unboxing. It's it's not a Crowder and, you know, and the big podcasts, it's just not, that's not important for them. It's all it's the hundreds of millions of daily views of dumb shit. That's where they make their money. They're not then if they're not going to pay for podcasts, I just I do not believe it. I mean, maybe those Oh, we'll get and the advertisers don't want to advertise on this shit. Well, that's the point. It's not brand safe. But they have there, there is one ego play that could come into effect. And that is that YouTube also has a competitor to Spotify, YouTube music. And if they wanted to just if they wanted to take Spotify as level of pain, and just turn it up two or three notches, they could try to do this in an ego play where they say, okay, they're already overextended and hurting from there in podcasting investments. Let's just crank that up another couple of notches and see how long they last on as a company.

48:24 I mean that that's a possibility. And then YouTube music is a viable alternative at this point, we're going in, okay, again, that would be only to crush them, which happens in Silicon Valley. There's a reason why no one has been able to really do podcasting successfully. Because it's, it's, it's not possible with the advertising model. It's just not I mean, I people will disagree with me. And I'll just keep saying the same thing over and over again. Podcasts the creative part of them are just not advertiser evil. This is why the industry focuses on these well funded content companies that create no brand safe content that is known in advance and they had a big budget behind it so you can pre sell it and do a what do they call that in the advertising I forgot the the preview crap as a no no, no, no, no, no no it's when when you show the new programming to all come on chat row. Yeah, the the upfront Yeah, when you do the upfront and all this and the upfront is not like you like if you want to say Oh, this is the upper This is the show, and it's podcasting 2.0 and just it's great just trust us by now so well what's the content gonna be? Yeah, and then you have a demo on this Okay, was it gonna be like this every week and they may go back and listen to it will you the Adam says fuck a lot. We don't want to advertise on that. Hit me up. So it's, it's the antithesis

49:58 of what podcasting is I know because I've done it. The advertising is the problem. And I and I just don't understand where the $1 billion is going if everybody's losing money, including hosting companies. Some. So, yeah, yeah. And then, and then this was the funniest thing. Spotify has suspended service to Russian customers. Alright, so there you go. There's your there's your free and open podcast ecosystem if you've, if you've built up an audience of people listening on on Spotify, it's Russia today. Well, who says it isn't Alabama tomorrow? Hey, Alabama has been shitty. Turn them off. What made it as if all As if I'll read this, this goes back if you've never read the book, there's an old book from the revisionist historians base. So post World War One the the Intel is when sort of the intelligence post World War One into World War Two is when the intelligence AI organization ideas really came into its own. And part of one of one of the one of the discussion points was all the all the propaganda that had happened during World War One how it had been countered by the press right so the the there's this group, and collectively known as

51:29 the revisionist the revisionist historians. That's I think that's where that term originates, where they looked back post World War One they look back at it and said, you know, a lot of this stuff that we all have this a lot this propaganda and it's all bullshit like this, this this idea that in so there's this book by Albert J knock, it was one of the revisionists. And you got guys like, Who's the guy from the Snopes trial? The Snopes Monkey Trial that that reporter there was quite their famous now. I'll remember the minute but there were quite a few of these guys that were revisionist historians. And they and they spent the next few years after the war debunking literally just debunking every all the propaganda that had happened.

52:17 And with this book by Albert J. nock, called the myth of a guilty nation. It's about Germany, and describing how the West had taken Germany and vilified the entire nation as a block. And that's mean, that's what happens in all wars. That's, that's what, that's the way war operates. And the propaganda side is you vilify the entire nation should every man woman and child is an evil, you know, this is evil and must be destroyed. And so that's, that's the, that's what you're one of the things that you're protecting, against when you decentralize. And in the ways that we've been talking about is, you have to protect yourself as a citizen, from the things that your government may do. Yes, ostensibly in your name in order to get you cancelled when you had nothing to do with this.

53:11 You know, so like, I mean, if, if the EU, if the US goes and invades Iraq, and some you know, country in Europe decides that that is evil, and wants to Can't you know, wants to cancel their my account with their business? Well, then that's a problem. I had nothing to do with it. I didn't use that didn't invade Iraq. And I think I think in today's day and age of there really being no borders online. Yeah, a lot. Most people are in a frenzy right now. And Putin equals Russia and F Russia and Assad. But you know, we all know people and you know, so now the people are, are communicating.

53:56 Of course, that was the first thing that had to get shut off from both sides. I might point out Russia, cutting off social networks, the social networks cutting off Russia, this is not a sustainable situation. But But besides that, if the if they can do it to an entire country, and this is not new, as you point out, they can do it to any country, or any state or any individual, as long as there's enough political will, literally political will not law. Just political will, so that you scare everybody. And it's not. So Spotify doesn't care, obviously. But I heard Todd saying that Lipson has Russian podcasters who can't pay for their servers because MasterCard visa doesn't work anymore.

54:41 To which I said how about Bitcoin but I didn't hear back. Didn't hear. But are you then a trader? Are you a trader to Ukraine and America if you help your customers, pay for their service or maybe defer it until things calm down? Because in today's political lexicon On You are you actually are carrying water for Putin? That's that's going to be the subtitle of my autobiography carrying water for Putin. No, no, no, no. Dave de Jones. I didn't hear back. HL Mencken is the guy who is trying to think Oh, right, right. Of course. Yeah. So I mean, you got some Yeah, I was I was gonna launch us into hopefully what you want to talk about as well, which is, which stemmed from your, from your blog post some conversations we had. And I think an overall desire in general, to rebrand part of what we're doing under podcast in 2.0, specifically, the namespace and to rebrand it to something like the podcast, standard podcast standards, and in fact, probably a good idea to create the podcast standards working group, so that now that we have a standard, and it's implemented, we can go out and start evangelizing it as something that everybody understands. And I would say specifically, hosting companies will understand when customers start asking for the podcast standard.

56:14 Yeah, yeah. So that's really, that's really what this is. And this all you know, a lot of this comes from a conversation that we had really sort of a brainstorming conversation we had with Kevin over Buzzsprout. He called us said, Hey, I've got some ideas, just Brent, you know, strategizing, brainstorming, thinking about this stuff. And the podcast we've known for a long time, and then podcasting. 2.0, what does it even mean? I mean, we like it. You know, it's, it's a, it's an interesting term phrase to use. And I think I think it's, it helps to think about, okay, this is the next sort of the next iteration of what podcasting can be. But, but really, then, then what, like, there's no, there's no sort of like, follow up there. What do you don't quite understand? Well, once it is when you say podcasting 2.0 Yeah, no, I understand. I thought I heard you wrong. Okay, God. Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's a concept. It's a concept, not a white paper, and what you really need for some concrete implementation, and I think this is a lot of the confusion that happens when, like when Todd says, you know, we need we need a website that explains this stuff.

57:32 I understand the understand the desire and the desire there because you it is something that is hard to explain in general. And so the, the idea that they were talking about as well, let's just call it instead of calling it the podcast namespace for the podcasting two point or podcasting, 2.0. The podcasting 2.0 project, is creating the podcasting standards. And that really should be the main thrust of what we're doing. Is pod This is the podcast standard. Yes, you, you and that what that means is the podcast, podcast standards body or I don't want to call it a body what I like to work in group working group. Yeah, okay. The podcasts and standards are the end result. That's the thing that that's that's our deliverable, if we want to use a sleazy VC phrase is, is these are these are a set of standards and the standards that are encompass the namespace.

58:40 The things like pod paying and adjacent technologies, and one that we may, hopefully we'll get to talk about today, like JpT, which is a new Alex proposal. And then also a set of other things like block lists, or four things, how to handle how to handle feeds properly, things like bringing together RFCs that may have been forgotten about and discussing whether or not they should be formalized into a more current iteration, things like page feeds and stuff like that.

59:20 These are all things that get constantly talked about within podcasting to Bono, and podcasting. Supernote doesn't necessarily represent a good way to determine these things. Right. And so if a podcast host or app is going forward with podcasting 2.0 features, what they would be doing is they would be trying to adhere to the podcasting standards. Going that's the, what we figured out is is a good way to describe it. So you could have you can imagine that a podcasting conference, you can have a booth that you know with a with a D Carolina, this are a graphic this is we're podcast, we, we are podcasting standards compliant.

1:00:07 So you've got you got hosting companies out there like, like a cast that constantly reconfirm recommit themselves publicly with language saying that they are RSS friendly and committed. Yeah, committed to the open podcast ecosystem, these kinds of things. Well, this would give them a way to prove it to say, Okay, well, we're committed to the open podcasting ecosystem. And the way that we're showing that we're actually doing that is by is by adhering to the podcasting standards. Now, something about this that I want to mention, because it's about you, you have done something incredibly important for podcasting.

1:00:54 So just a little quick Genesis, this project started, there were two, two concepts. One was take back the index, create the API, so developers can easily spin something up and not deal with the with some other party messing around with either the entries or with the API itself. See apple, and the value for value streaming concept, those were the two initial things, what came out of that, because of course, the namespace was created for the value block, we integrated right away with transcripts, which was already existing, and some other things. But what you did with the path that you let everyone down, what, for 10 years, and this is not a slam, it's just a fact.

1:01:41 For 10 years, there were discussions and slack groups and, and organizations and boards and and more groups and, and all kinds of I hate we need more features for podcasting. And it never happened. No one wrote, as far as I know, a lick of code, no implementation, just lots and lots of hot air, and you stewarded the namespace, and it's, it's inherent to you, because you have a way I know that you have experience. But also we followed, like the rules for standards makers, and you did your homework on how we would do this. And so what we now can present? Is that work? It is, so no longer do we need to necessarily have big conversations about because we have almost all the features people wanted. And there will be more there in an organized manner. There's a place where it makes sense. It's technically technically correct, we have great documentation. And we in fact, have people who can make up a working group, which can be as anyone as far as I'm concerned.

1:02:48 And and can Shepherd this into the marketplace, because we have proven it with implementation. And that's you Dave Jones, you did that. And I know, a lot of people worked on it. But you shepherded that. So there's your little star on your forehead? On the forehead. Wow. And I thank you, because you did an incredible service to the podcast. I hate the term industry to podcasting. But so, let me let me let me describe, let me describe what what it looks like currently. Thank you, by the way, let me describe you embarrass me with compliments. But let me describe what I'm what it currently looks like.

1:03:36 And on sort of the, quote, unquote, working group side of things, because I think we already have what we need. Yep. What we have is we have to maintainers of the podcast namespace repository, which is where all the documentation and discussion happens. We have myself and James Cridland. That was, that was intentional. Because to put James as a maintainer, he can merge things he can he can do anything that needs to happen, because it keeps it from being just a just a podcasting 2.0 thing. Or when I say podcasts when I'm at podcast index, I mean, yeah, it keeps it from being just podcast index.

1:04:23 Also, James and I disagree frequently enough to where I know that I can depend on him to push back, which is important. You need push back. He also comes from a different side of things like he's very deep into the advertising part of things. But he's also he also looks at he's also a technology and technology, you know, futurist if you want to call it so I feel like he's a good steward of that along with me. Now, I don't think there will ever add another person because It is really important. And this is this is the critical thing to get back to what you were saying about stewarding things. The most important thing that we've done within podcasting to point out to make sure that these things actually happen, instead of just being talked about is just doing it.

1:05:18 Don't talk about it endlessly just do the thing. And the more people you add, it becomes, it becomes standard by committee, and it just bogs down and nothing ever gets done. So at the end of the day, somebody has to make a decision. And that decision comes in ultimately, if necessary, 90% of times is not necessary, right. But if necessary, that decision comes down to me and James. And I think that is how that is all we need. We have a million voices giving ideas and proposals. Lots and lots of smart people at tons of awesome ideas. And you can see it in the Verify tag, the podcast verify tag has been bet, talked about.

1:06:04 Alberto martinez.com, submitted. Right, right, I saw that, after it was talked about add Podcast Movement amongst a group of people with Sam and James and everybody. They came together with this sort of core idea of what what it could look like, submitted the proposal. There's been some back and forth, the conversation has slowed down. Now that means we that's a signal when it slows down that there's a sort of law where decisions can begin to be made. And now, now, it's sort of okay, what do What does? What do I think? What does James think? And we'll kick it back to the community if necessary. And so, this, this process works very well. And I think that that can be, that whole thing can be the standard, the podcast enters working group, quote, unquote.

1:06:57 And I would like to recommend that which you already, I guess, set up is that discussion about the podcast standard should happen in the discus portion of the GitHub. Yeah, and I need some help with that, because I've never used that. But a lot of people have recommended it enough and consistently enough to where it seems like it's probably a good idea, here's what I recommend, we not do. I do not recommend we set up another discussion group or Mastodon, or, or email list or whatever. Now, this is way down the road. We don't need that anymore for the standards. This is a great adding, refining, tweaking, you know, this is with real technical details and code.

1:07:45 I don't think we need the broad discussion about well, you know, and at all times, I would just like to recommend that, that people police each other from not saying will you know, up a little never do it? Because that's just a recipe for failure? By thinking that way, because we what we're seeing is, other apps that matter are doing it. And we even saw Marco say that he when he's ready, I'm sure it'll take a bit because he just had that huge refresh, or UI redo. Maybe he plans on integrating chapters, you know, so watch stuff go When, when, when Marco does that, and and we see that we've still got podcasts, attic, and N Pocket Casts, and there's lots of apps that make a difference that that'll that'll be coming on board with the standard. It's inevitable at this point. But really, we need to step away from this old trauma of Spotify and Apple won't do it, then it doesn't matter. And and that always fits into why I say that the size of the audience. I know people scoff at me when I say it, but the size of your audience just isn't as important. You know, it's the community you build around it.

1:09:15 So Oh, no, this kind of spin something I've been thinking about, and is that the podcast apps of how critical the apps are? And I mean, we've, of course, we've said this from the beginning, but I was listening to the feed that the show Lipson sort of commentary on themselves in podcasting. And they were Rob Walsh in there said he was looking back I think he was pissed off because the lady that accepted the some award for cereal, had said that before cereal, podcasting, you know, was basically nothing and he's like, the mighty I always fall.

1:10:02 He got super, super mad about that. And then and what he is. And he painted a picture that I really had never, I'd never thought about. But he's, I think he's I think he's right, is that it wasn't cereal that reinvigorated podcasting, or launched it to sort of the next level. It was the fact that iOS eight, put the apple podcast app on the homescreen by default. Ooh, interesting. Yes. And so I Yeah. When when that happened, everybody said, and he I'm using his words here, I think, is, Oh, what's this interesting purple icon on the screen. And you tap it and his podcast and there's a search, there's a directory search right there. And then two months later, serial hit in became sort of a viral thing. And everybody already had the app, they're ready to go. I agree All Headings it had existed before that it wouldn't. You had to tee it up in order for cereal, to even be on the near end. This is exactly the way podcasting is grown in these spurts. And there's one other element why cereal just blew everything out of the water is that this point everybody had had been trained to binge watch.

1:11:24 Netflix, and yeah, Hulu, and we were binge watching. What's the Breaking Bad, you know, everyone binge watch Breaking Bad House of Cards. And there was this incredible, like, people just staying up all weekend doing coke, watching Netflix, and pizza. And there were memes about it. And then all of a sudden there was this really compelling show that made you wait a whole week before you could get the next one. And of course, the the true crime format is, I would say by far the most popular format in podcasting, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah, without a doubt, and it brought in women. Yeah. And it brought in women. Yeah. Now contrast that with the numbers that we received that 40% of women listen to a podcast on a website, in a player on the website.

1:12:16 That that is that that is totally valid, validate total validation of the thing that you you have said that for months and months that, that women have a propensity to listen to podcasts on websites instead of in apps. You call that way long ago. And it's 100. It's, it's so odd. It's just not anything I would ever think to do. Which to me, which which to me means, you know, should I just be me, maybe maybe I should. Okay, so when I, when I say oh, here's, here's how I think the flow goes, I post a tweet to the show notes page. It's up and there's a player in there. And so there's obviously a large portion of my audience in certain shows, that is going to listen to that on the web page, which is the shitty ass sorry, that fantastically beautiful, I love the freedom controller. But of course, I don't have the CSS or anything, I just have a shitty s. Outline page. But that's how I That's my choice. That's how I publish stuff. That doesn't matter to me. And it's just like, I've simply I can see it clicked. So they are listening on that page. Maybe I need a version of pod verse, pod friend curio casts or maybe even cast pod casts coverage. That is a page, a beautiful page that immediately starts playing that

1:13:48 episode, but teases that it's an app teases, you know, so you shouldn't have a full listing and too much shit all in one go. It should be one page and to be like, Oh, what's this? Oh, I can find more podcasts here. Oh, I can subscribe to this. And you have you link out to curio caster for maybe let's just use them as an example. Actually, I want to use I want to use pod verse as an example. Puffer, okay, you link to pod verse as an example. During the last stream, they're streaming live, and then they're in the thing in your page, it says, install the app. Now, I'm thinking when I tweet out the people listening live is a whole different discussion. That's and I have a lot of experience with that. And that's, that's a very small group, but very, very useful for specific cases. I'm talking about my new episode is up. There's a there's a large part of the portion of the audience which does not see a notification on an app because they're not using one typically maybe I don't know, two they see a tweet or they see a two or something and oh, okay, let me go take a look. And and they go to that page and they can start Listening. And it's not just the Adam's ugly page. It's the pod verse, web player and the pod verse web and a simplified version for that episode.

1:15:12 And then through the UI, or UX, or whatever, it's teasing, like, hey, you know, click here to get the app always get notified, and will automatically subscribe, you I'm just making shit up, or explore what else you can do. This is an incredible opportunity. It is also the same audience that listens to serial. Large overlap, I would say, there's something we can do, where you can either keep people in the web app and show them the joy of the web app. And then maybe if they want the, if they want, and I don't even know if they're listening to web players, you know, just a regular web player on the phone or on the desktop, I'm not quite sure. But there's just an opportunity to grab them and show them the joys of of a pot of a full podcast app experience. But it needs to be something that I can use to promote instead of just a link to a to a show notes page. It should just be something that spits out for me from whatever app and I can just Oh, boom, it's a widget, you know, just let me use this, or I just click a button. How about that? And just click a button and it does it all for me with my Twitter account and my Mastodon account?

1:16:27 Yeah, great opportunity. Yeah, I like it. I like it a lot. That's I mean, I think that's probably best to probably be some sort of, that's another that's another way we could go put into the standard other thing, we put it in the standards, like, here's, you know, here's a There you go, like, suggestions on on workflows and things like that, not from this or that podcaster standpoint. But just like, here, if you're trying to accomplish this thing, to satisfy this particular audience expectation, then here would be a way to utilize these these technologies and this these tags in order to satisfy this objective. There you go.

1:17:07 Yeah. Yeah, this I could. I could let it let me do you want? I wanted to ask, I think I want to talk about the a couple of these new tags. If you want to do some TechEd out. I love tech talk. Wait, is it maybe it's time for one of these, it's not just tech talk, we need to we need a new a new jingle. So now it's time for some hot namespace talk needs to be podcast standards chat. That just didn't do it?

1:17:48 Well, before, let's Okay, so we'll do all the tags. But then I want to look, actually, first I want to talk a little bit about the aggregator Oh, yummy. So it's about as I got six of the aggregators converted over, there's nine total to the new code for the new for them the new polling mechanism. And it's pretty interesting. So the, every one of these have changed over the wants a start started, I got the first two done. I looked at the charts on the CPU usage on the aggregator nodes.

1:18:33 And they dropped, the CPU drop usage dropped at dropped from 80 to 100%. down to like, 20. Yeah. And that is consistent. I mean, that has been like that's, that's solid stable. Which till. So then I stopped what I was doing. Okay. Well, this is this is interesting. We're paying me rundown here real quick. So we've got, we've got one, we've got nine aggregators. Every one of them is a four gig Linode instance. And they had that's a two CPU. And as two CPUs have four gigs for each one of them.

1:19:14 One of them, which is a bigger one that handles a lot of the frequency of a frequency one. That is a $30 a month Linode into dedicated CPU with four gigs. So we, if you add that all up, you're talking about $175 a month for all the aggregator nodes. Now, with the reduced CPU usage. I was like, why are we paying? Why would we pay $20 a month for on average for one of these aggregators, when it's only using 20% of the CPU, right? Okay. I went back and started to reroll them out to actually load the CPU at higher. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, five $5. So using the lowest one to $5 a month, one gig VMs.

1:20:10 Nice. And that put the CPU usage. Right around. Right around, I'm guessing 40 To 6040 to 60%. And it's solid, same speed, same speed. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, the efficiency of this of the new code is so much, I think what we can do is drop all of these down to five, to the, excuse me to the $10 a month. So it gives us a little bit of headroom, nice, all to $10 a month. That means 90 bucks a month, that saves us 85 bucks a month. And then we can use that to boost the database database server right to the next level, which is an additional $80. So we got balanced out. Perfectly balanced out. I love it when that happens. Yeah, so we can go to the bigger database and have all of our aggregators and everything will be kosher. This is what your donations to podcasting. 2.0 go towards, by the way, value for value. So if you if you like what you're hearing you'd like the frugality of my brother from the south here, then continue to support that because we'll need more upgrades in our future for sure. Yeah, and I want to say thank you to Eleanor and to Hamish, on the subs on the Macedon who've been helping give me some ideas on how to on because what, because one thing about this new code is that it's not okay in practice.

1:21:45 Now, if you just run the polar by itself, it screams I mean, you come on the 2000 feeds a minute, easy, nice. But you can't feed that to the database that fast. I mean, it's kind of insane. So what the net result of it is, after you take into account, the parsing, and everything is it turns out to be not a whole lot faster than the previous one. But you have the better, better code, the more dependable code, you have better efficiency with CPUs, but then you put the it ends up being a more steady stream of data. So you may not, it may not be necessarily faster, but it's a more consistent volume of data being driven to the database that has the result of stressing the database out a little bit more. So it's like, you know, it's like the difference between like a, like a 22 Magnum versus a 45 caliber.

1:22:54 You got high FPS, I know high FPS bullet but very tiny, versus a lower FPS bullet, but it's much bigger. Like, the 45 is like getting hit in the chest with basketball, right, you know, at 100. Right, right. Right. Right. So that's, that's sort of the idea here is that we're, we're not it's not really a speed increase, it's more just a volume load increase on the database. So we're gonna have to bump the database up. And how about polling algorithms? Yes, no. So that that is a discussion. Once I've finished rolling everything out, that is something that I want to do is, is changed the overall algorithm. So currently, what it is, is these nine aggregators.

1:23:37 As as we do feed, feed parsing, the party time parser looks at the average publishing time between episodes, or the average gap between Episodes and it says, In in the head, there's a chart, there's a table that says if it goes if you have one or more episodes within a three day period, you get up you get assigned update frequency one, one or more episodes, within a you know, seven day period frequency to I'm making the I don't remember the numbers, but it splits it out and basically one through nine a frequency update values get assigned to each feed. So then the aggregators and they each take on a certain frequency polar polling responsibility. So aggregator one handles, polls all the feeds with an update frequency of one two does to blah, blah, blah.

1:24:38 That that works. Okay. Except that you miss is it's not as efficient as it could be. So one of the things that we're we talked about on Mastodon I think we're going to man I will definitely do this. I'm going to do this is changing debt lately. have that in place, but then also add this other metrics. And so what we would do is have a table where it shows where has the feed ID, the last published time of an episode, and then this, this chart there. So this this series of columns, where it assigns a, a time window to each one of those columns. So it's called as, like a represents seven, like a seven day period.

1:25:33 And then you assign a time windows so that you can for every feed, what you can do is you can do a quick database search and say, Okay, what I want is a list of feed IDs, that update between 8am and 10am UTC every, every, every week, on Thursday. And you, you can just look it up as a lookup table, it'll give you that set of feeds. And during this period, you have one aggregator that's assigned to just rapidly pull those feeds. So it's just how it's, you know, every three minutes, it's just hidden every feed that falls into that category. As soon as that time window passes, you pull the next group and just start hammering that group. So we're only killing one polar bear a day then.

1:26:24 It's really like a cold polar bear cut like a cup. Yeah, like beating a baby seal over the head. Yeah, yes. Yeah. You're just losing one or two cubs a week? That's not you know, you're good. That's good. Of course, the answer to this is pod ping, which, I guess that should also somehow be mentioned in the podcast standard. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, that's good. It's got to have its place in there. Now, Alex fixed, fixed a bug that we're having with a watcher. And so that really helped it was a bug with because it came from the live upgrades. Yeah, that that he I think that thing is 100% stable. Now, it's good.

1:27:07 It's good to go. I mean, you know, nobody can predict votes. But as we, as we start to figure out this, rebranding of the namespace and, and, and where things start to fit, I did want to mention Daniel J. Lewis, who was very kind to start creating a new website for podcasts. index.org, a lot of what you did, Daniel actually influenced this. So yeah, clearly, it's going to have to be different because we're, we're seeing the strategy kind of unfold. So on one hand, I want to say you know, that you were very responsible for getting our heads in this space. Also, I'd like to congratulate Daniel J. Lewis, for being accepted to the board of the podcast Academy. Yes, absolutely. It's good to have one of our own there.

1:27:53 Yeah, he's one of the 40% of independent pugs that kisses me off to, you have no idea when I hear well, 40% of the of the board is, is indie. podcasters. That's a good thing. I'm like, No, that's not a good thing. That's lame. That's not equity, either. By the way, that's very unwise joke. That's 50% less than it should be. Yeah. Well, there you go. And anyway, fine. I'm happy Daniel was there on the front lines, and he'll be able to represent and I think the podcast standards will be very important in propagating that, throughout that, you know, that sector of podcasting, which is really, you know, the high in my mind, I feel it's a lot more high end content, you know, investor money type stuff. That's what the podcast.

1:28:43 I mean, look, I just looked at evolutions, and I saw all the money that went in there, and you can see where it came from. You know, and it didn't come from indies because indies have no money. Right? Yeah. 2.0 did not donate a half a million dollars to it. So Daniel J, we're very proud of you. You are the token, but we're very proud of you. And you're the token you're the you're the token indie. Attendee, the attendee Yeah. See, what do you want to talk about? Lit about the list mediums. The list mediums, does this does this pique your interest at all? Sounds like yeah, like, like another variant of COVID.

1:29:28 This so that's what I was saying earlier. There's just so many specs and proposals and drafts of things that it's like, just covered up with with different with all these things to read well, before you get into LIS mediums, then let me just say that there will be more to read, as I am going to focus on value for value a proper I'll just call it the manifesto, but something that can be turned into something that people can read on Understand, not have to read the whole thing to a little bit like value for value.io, which is very down and dirty. But this would be something that one of the number one requests I get interestingly is I need a script.

1:30:17 Very, very interesting request, I need to risk to understand how to complete the loop on booster grams and value for value. So these kinds of things, the history, the concept, and but also how to get started really fast, etcetera, etcetera. So, I'm going to be writing that I'm going to be focusing on that because we have the traction that brings people in if if somebody needs a, a real world example, other than this show, I mean, obviously, this show is a Yeah, absolute exam. You're so busy. You're soaking. Yes. If somebody needs. There's just a couple of examples off top my head of people that do this also very well. Linux unplugged. Yes. Fisher. Yeah.

1:30:58 And the intergalactic boombox, Callay bear. And these two shows are do a very good job of doing of having a script. So we want to have these examples. You know, I heard the message very well from from Ed Ryan. And from James as well, you know, press releases all this stuff. Fine. We'll do that. We'll do that. We'll start feeding you stuff. And we'll also actually integrate the value for value branding into the way our website because it's kind of a bastard right now it's not, you know, V for V is a list of podcasts right now. It's not really clear. Anywhere. What? Yeah, that's almost fell down.

1:31:41 I'm standing up right now. Are you trying to put your pants on he almost fell now. I was reaching for my water. Z. That's, that's one thing to discuss is that we're going to try if at all humanly possible to have some of this stuff. Kind of branded and ready for Podcast Movement data? Yes. We're all gonna go and we're all gonna go to Dallas. Yeah, so we'll hopefully we'll have some stand, you know, podcast standards, stickers or whatever we're going to do. We'll have we'll have some some media presence there. So podcast standards booth babes. Yeah. Boothbay? Yeah, I think it does Benjamin Richardson does he qualifies booth, babe. I mean, he's totally we also know you need to do it. Right. You know, ride the podcast standards mechanical bull. And this is what you do.

1:32:34 There were at least five of those that Bitcoin 2022 Oh, yeah. Ride the bull. By the way, if you call invite your value for value, if you call it a manifesto, you it's required that you sign it with your middle name, Adam. Adam Clark curry. Yes. Yeah. Done, Consider it done. We'll talk about lists mediums. I'd love to. So this is a proposal by by Alex and, and I think is genius. I think we should try to pipeline it into Phase Five, if at all possible. Stephen B, also concurs today because he was looking for this.

1:33:16 For curio caster for something similar, is only just get the idea. You know, you're familiar with mediums. And so the mediums are things like where you can tag a an RSS feed. With what type of content this is. So audio book, podcast, music, film, this sort of thing. Right, yeah. Yeah. So you can that's, that's already there. That was in Phase four, I believe. The idea of a list of a list medium is, is that you need this thing that there's a thing missing in podcasting, which is the ability to do playlists.

1:33:57 Now playlists, you can do lists of feeds, like with OPML, or anything, or something like that. But there's no notion of a of a playlist of individual items like episodes. And you can imagine that this would be very helpful. Because if you especially if you have a proliferation of things like like music podcasts, so you could you could assemble a playlist of episodes of a music podcast, because each one of them is a track. And so he's he's put together this proposal and it depends on on another on and on finalized tag. Another proposal called Remote item.

1:34:41 Who's that? Yeah, the idea here is that you can reference in a feed a different item, an item from a different feed. Nice, yes, and inclusion. Exactly. Yeah, it's perfect. Perfect analogy isn't included. It's like an OPML inclusion you can say except it's not URL based. It's based on the GUID of the bottom of the remote feed. Now new to the feed Natalie, podcast guid tag, reference, the good and the good of the episode, right, right. And now you have a unique identifier down to the episode of a feed. You can say, Okay, here's the, here's a remote item that I want to pull in. And this could be interpreted on its own as something like a suggestion or something like that, that you can go read that spec. Now at, at pod show slash movie, we, we did a lot of this. And we created a lot of these lists making capabilities and the ability to share and I, we were not doing them in any manner, like in a namespace, but just the basic output functionality. And you could share your list. And so I could say, oh, let me see what, what what episodes Dave has on deck today.

1:35:56 So Mike, that got zero traction, no one used it didn't work, too. I'm curious, how does this surface and what is the user functionality and or the UX may be for this? I don't know about that. I think there's a demand for list making capabilities. from the user perspective. I mean, I certainly love having my episode list in in curio caster or in pod verse does a good job of it. So I just say, Oh, here's the new episode by a pod friend, of course. But for the podcaster to make a list, what is it for who was the consumer? How does it surface?

1:36:38 I think this is purely or not purely, but I think a lot of this is user centric, not not related to the podcast, or podcaster could could create one and then drop it in there as Okay, okay, I just list Okay, got it. Got it. Yeah. So like a curio caster listener could add episodes that they really love to a, to an ongoing sort of playlist, the way that Spotify works for music, and then share that list, share that list out with other people who could then follow them and get updates, sort of like a synthetic feed type of thing where you could subscribe to somebody else's Lists List. And we're at how do I publish this list?

1:37:25 Well, I mean, that would be out, you know, app to app, they would have to be or you if certain a certain apps that had probably like sovereign feeds, they have a curio caster has the ability to it's got a feed publishing mechanism, there's some in it, he could do it directly. But then if you had another app that didn't have that, or didn't want that, they could just provide you, you know, the feed, and then you could do you know, share it out some other way? I don't know. But it'd be it'd be interesting to see a ecosystem build up around this where they were just, here's one of the exciting things to me about, about a thing like this is that everybody cries about discoverability? Constantly.

1:38:09 Yeah, sorry. No, not everybody. Everybody, but Adam, is about discoverability. Constantly. And but everybody, but when people think about solving discoverability, they only think about, hey, let's, let's VC a company and put a bunch of AI in there, crap like that. But that's not that mean discoverability is, is what you said in the past word of mouth. But if you have a playlist, sharing capability, this this this this open, and a standard OS spec, well, then you can replace the the word of mouth part of it, you can translate that into digital form is that this is this is digital word of mouth. I'm literally showing you what I listened to. Or you can have a playlist of favorites where every time you star something in the app, like, Oh, that was a good, you know, good episode, which a lot of people use in apps like overcast as starring, it could get that lit that those starred items can become a playlist. And now you have now you're sharing the discoverability in with the world. Like, I think it's a great idea. It's a great idea.

1:39:22 I'm excited to see it. I'm even more excited to see people use it. i Yeah, I'm skeptical over this as a discovery mechanism. I think clips is a great discovery mechanism. I don't know what the uptake on that is either. I just don't hear any great success stories. And I am completely biased because I don't believe that's how people discover podcasts. But I can see other use cases that I would probably put together I don't know. I don't know. We need the difference here between clips and And something like this is that clips inherently require a lot of effort. You gotta go in there and you and it's gonna take you on a good device that's easy to use, it's gonna take you four or five minutes to create a clip with something like a playlist, the app, and this is just, I can just envision a scenario like this where an app says, Do you want to share your favorites in a public playlist? And you can say, if you said yes, from then on, whenever you hit star, that thing, just, it is just instantaneous. Like it requires zero effort.

1:40:42 That's a way that I think that that you could get something like this to work. Where as a clip is just, it requires so much effort and fiddling, moving the little slider back and forth, and you mess it up and you get, you know, you accidentally go. It's sort of tedious, but a bit of a playlist is it could be designed where it's very minimal effort, or none. Yeah, yeah. Possible. Yeah. I mean, I don't have time for playlists in my life. So again, I'm biased. I don't have time to listen to all these podcasts. I'd admit that I'm struggling to, I've got like, I've got so many one was, I can't list you know, one of the things that we did create back in the day, which never took off, either.

1:41:27 And this is good, because going back to Dave Winer days was share your OPML. I remember that. Yeah. And I really liked that idea. Because then everyone has the opportunity to publish their subscription list. Now, you could do this with a list of favorites. So it's very valid with with this list, list tag. But then eventually, what you want is you want that to be aggregated somewhere. Now you have some data about people subscribing, you know, how many lists on things on there, there's, there's all kinds of great things that can be done with with something like this. But I think ultimately, I just need to see the use cases, I think we should put it all in there make it all possible, because there's someone coming up with a use case that I can't figure out and it's going to be great, I'm sure. Yeah. And I've used this example before, I think I think maybe says we found that we found a use case for the source tag and the freedom controller. And we went back like we needed, we needed some functionality in there to do we had the freedom controller to threaded comments.

1:42:37 Oh, right. Oh, my God, I remember that. Yeah. Perfect example. Great technology. We don't use it. Yeah. And it you and it used the source tag to do it. And we went back and found that tag and said, Okay, we can adapt this. So if we have this in there, some person in the future can come up with some rockin use case for that and be like, Yeah, this is great. So I'm all for it. Obviously, I'm all for it. Yeah, by the way, on a happy note that we finally got our $5,000 back. You know, someone had opened a 10 million Satoshi channel to us. And then oh, yeah, and then ran it all to our side. And then just left, when offline, just left. It's great. But so that meant I had to force close the channel, which meant we had to wait 780 blocks before we could get our money back. Geez, how much? How much cash was that? $5,000. Good grief. Yeah, it was it was suck. We couldn't open a channels we had very, very low.

1:43:46 We had only maybe a million sets left to open some channels with. And this is the this is the answer to when people are like, you know, the complaint about the fees on the for routing fees like Well, yeah, because crap like this happens. Yeah, I mean, we literally, you know, our money was locked up for for I don't know, how many days was that? It's almost two weeks. I think it took forever. It's like roughly 10 minutes of blocks. I said it's probably less than that. Yeah, so lettered minutes, you know, 700, right. 750 blocks times 10. So seven and a half. 1000 minutes. Yes. 7500 minutes. So it's how many hours divided by 60? Yeah.

1:44:29 Oh, my god. I can't do this. I could, but I don't have a calculator. I got one. Let's see. Okay. 770 7500 minutes divided by 660 minutes in an hour. 125 hours, divided by 74. There's only four and a half, five days felt longer. But a week. Yeah. And that's, that's the HDLC mechanism that you have. You have to wait up here. So if you wonder why we'd like to make some money off of routing, there's your answer.

1:45:09 You want to thank some people and then we'll, yes. Anything else? Yeah, I think we can do that. Value for value. I'm writing the manifesto was Adam Clarke curry. But it's very simple. If you value what you're hearing, if you value what is being done, turn that into numbers, and send that to us, whatever is valuable to you. And this is the way it should work because of the vapid nature of media. It can mean a lot to somebody or nothing, so we don't force it on you. And we don't have creepy corporate money or advertising. We just asked you to support it, so that we can continue and so far so good. As long as we remain frugal. You can support us at podcasts index.org through your Fiat fun coupons there at the bottom we got a donate button for PayPal, also for on chain if you want to send bitcoin to us on chain. And of course our favorite method is with a modern podcast app, which you can find at new podcast apps.com and boost us and we're gonna get to thanks. Thanks for people right now who supported this episode. Oost Wayne Parker gave us $50 through PayPal it's a one time donation whoo nice thank you. Yeah, thank you well, I'm not sure if he wanted me to he's got a paid this from an LLC and I'm not sure if he wanted me to name it.

1:46:31 So if if you would like to let us know me send me an email. Yeah. Thank you Wayne. Appreciate that. Dr. One time and Joseph naggy Jr. or Nagy or naggy in a G why give us $5 For one time, one time contribution he says value for value. All right, thank you very much, because that is boost. Should I do these live booster grams that we received before we get into the big boosts? Hit it. We got a couple people who are listening live and I've been boosting live we got Carolyn 888 SATs I wear sunglasses when listening to podcasts and 2.0 the future of podcasting is bright hashtag boost chain. Then we got a whole bunch of 333 33 SATs here's Chad F with 10,000 SATs and he he's cross promoting even though boosting this show can't wait for the next episode of Korean the keeper. Thank you.

1:47:29 Yeah, we're gonna do that. Monday or Tuesday. Blue douche 5000 SATs keep it up podcast and 2.0 Chat F with another 5000 SATs for the Live episode hard hat 2222 Row ducks for you right there on air exclamation mark. We got November for Victor X ray with a freedom boost 1776 or Patriot boost where the pants are optional but pews are not new podcast. That's right. I might take them off before the show and 10,000 again from Chad f we do it live you says and we have 2356 sets from Steven B. He says this is a $1 boost pre live show boost. By the way I appreciate he put in Fiat translators now and curio Kassar. Yes. Interesting. I did want to say that I kind of miss being able to switch that anywhere I see I see a number.

1:48:27 So you have to go to settings to change it and it changes universally. I like just being like looking at SATs and just tapping something and go okay, that's this many dollars tap back. That's just a personal preference, but I love that you've done it Steven. And that's it. That's what I have on the live booster Gramps. We got some nonlife booster grams which is and now just I just took this date from because we had picked it up where we left off because the dates were weird. So live is lit. We had a successful launch of the live item tag this past Sunday afternoon agenda and this is from blueberry. Oh, nice. And he says blueberries eat from out what's the what's the name of the podcast? Blueberries in the chat right now. Blueberry. Okay, behind the schemes. Is that Yes, I believe so. Yes. Behind the schemes? I believe so. Yeah. And hug story. Okay, so this is excited to see more apps adopt this feature. It's a hard decision between which is more fun chapters or the lifetags we make custom heart for each chapter for your viewing pleasure. Every Monday night following hug story we will be live with behind the scheme's and curio caster. Hey, baby. I was listening to a PC 2.0 app because you're lit. Oh, I just had an idea. I just had an idea.

1:49:39 And I heard the chapters, too. First of all, I want to thank Dred Scott for doing an amazing job if you want to. If you want to see some crazy ass chapters go look at no agenda, Episode 1440 It was a four hour end of show mix extravaganza. And I sent him the list of 154 tracks that were used. Danny, Danny turned it into 154 chapters with images. How cool is that? It's, you'd look at that it's you get blown away. Here's the thought I just had. Wouldn't it be interesting if you have, like a live show, but it could also be the I think the live show where the booster grams that come in are immediately converted into a chapter marker with the message.

1:50:32 Oh, with that person's icon as the image or whatever or chosen image representation. That's a great idea. How badass would that be? Okay, so this relates to the Jaypee T. proposal. We can talk about that after the initial segment. They did that this may be a good fit. All right. All right. We'll finish and then I'll like it was a called JpT JpT. Geo JSON, JSON payment token. Now brothers, Daniel J. Lewis JSON thing. No, no, no, no. I'm just kidding. No. J Daniel has. He's not he's got too much responsibility with podcast Board of Governors. He's not not only that. He's got a kid. He's got the board got the academy. Governor, Director, board ship whatever the hell it is.

1:51:25 For JSON anymore. He's moved on. Yeah. All right. Anonymous 4242 through cast ematic and it just says confetti. We don't really have a confetti streamer. You go get the Fauci pop boost. Boost. That's a confetti pop. All right. Chad Pharaoh 1000 SATs through fountain and he says I listen to no agenda on cassette I would listen to no agenda on cassette tape if I knew what that was in for VX a row of ones a 1111 He says no agenda social the best strap on in the universe. Okay, bombshell, whatever that means. Yeah, right. Anonymous, another anonymous through 1313 13 through cast medic with Vicious confetti, so somebody's confetti being us. Yes.

1:52:14 Spam proof sends us 5000 SATs through cast Matic is this podcast index 2.0 was the reason I finally saw a path forward for Bitcoin because of your use of the Lightning Network. Enjoy these pennies. Oh, thank you. Yeah, and he sent another 10,000 SATs also with the same with same donation notes so 15,000 Total Thank you beautiful love that. Here's your cute a booth. You know you want yeah. So our buddy ROI ROI Schonfeld from breeze 5004 54,321 SAS through the breeze app direct quote from Roy fuck all the Bitcoin haters boost boost boost Spoken like a true yeah, Max Ray. Yeah he is our biggest cheerleader they've yes oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Yeah, he is he really is. He makes us look good. Yeah, he does. I like that about people when they make me look good make us look good. Yeah. Can't Pharaoh 1000 SATs he says I love the free CSV add a bit CSV did too well. It's that's part of value for value. You know? It works both ways.

1:53:37 Oscar Mary said I think we 5000 SAS he says I think we fixed the emojis now let me know Yes, you did. I see a string of emojis here. And they they are lightning fire confetti and running with scissors. Thank you Oscar. And he had another test boost as well for emojis and yes, we got those two other 5000 SATs. Shawn Trenary sin 2500 SAS new fountain he says Happy Holidays Adam. Thanks very happy after well wasn't quite that happy? Are you doing booster? Signs of new growth a good music podcast if you need one to listen to check it out. I highly recommend he's sent 3333 sets through fountain and he says Dave Jones tech support boost our buddy Martin from pod France sent 6464 SATs I wonder what the new interesting 6464 pod two pod friendly says boosting to show you I'm still alive.

1:54:38 We know you're alive. Nobody can kill ya. He's indestructible. Yes. Unbreakable. Unbreakable Mark Brewster. He was at the dev meeting the other day and it's good to see good to see Martin Yeah. Oh cool. Air statica since 2370 success through fountain and he says Mr. Graham's are not lost. Sending messages got it? We got we got it and he sent another 2376 and said I had no idea Mr. grands would become so controversial thanks for doing the work boost in the world of the internet anything can become anything just oh now like this I don't think you've seen this Steven be sent in a donation but he's the be in His name is the Bitcoin symbol Oh slick nice 2289 SATs through curio caster and he says curio casters first Fiat fun boost twitch $2 in the wallet settings to the amount in dollars right so that's interesting so he sent $1 at the time and it translate that to that amount which of course is completely meaningless in numerology but yeah, it's it's it's fun to see how that works when people can also do that in Fiat it's literally Fiat on coupons. It's a coupon for some SATs, y'all y'all know ha man there's so much to think about we can do

1:56:11 so much with with booster grams. My My mind is just spinning programmable money. It brought broadcast double money. Yeah, that's the winner. We're gonna get the t shirt that says I've got you in my cron job. They like that's that's an important t shirt that needs to exist. Oh my goodness. Well, I think I think our team over there to no agenda or podcast index dot shop will take the team the team Yeah, it's it's a team. It's a team. Yes, it is husband wife, but it's a team is not our team. No, it's not our team. We're very happy for and by the way, if you buy any of the podcast, any of the merchant podcast, podcasts index dot shop, that a portion of that goes to the artists the portion goes to the shop and a portion gets donated to podcasting 2.0 And we also have the certified shirt which we now have pegged at total and it doesn't matter as long as you keep your own accounting total up to $125 in Fiat then you'll get one of those handsome shirts, honor system, like everything of course. Nomad, Joe gave us 2000 SATs through fountain and he says let's have a mellow week. Okay, great mellow week mellowing D.

1:57:28 Billy Newman 833 sets as go podcasting. I'm learning how to Batch Edit my podcast audio in terminal in terminal because that's hardcore. Yeah. Sounds new growth and it's another 3333 sets and thanking me for the for the tech support and you're welcome for that. Let's see here. Brian. Brian of London, sent us 22,759 SATs to the V for the Rube Goldberg machine. He says weekly $10 V for V donation converted from SAS to SAS from Brian of London and the hive Dao go podcasting.

1:58:13 Nice Thanks, Brian. Thank you, Brian. As the chyron from the mere mortals podcast 2222 through pod friend and he says Insert woke confused voice. Quote, Adam and Dave are solely in it for the fame and more importantly the money. They're also ruining podcasting and the planet with imaginary digital money that has no value whatsoever. These two statements are not contradictory, unquote. And we're killing ducks. Insert Chad podcasting 2.0 voice transcripts helping the disabled 60 Chapter art pod pain saving the planet V for Vigo burr as for me and the delimiter chemistry at block 33 There he is. From pod FF Randy says howdy podcasting 2.0 Team God forsake Russian invaders as they forsake peace in the US God and your listeners are invited to a biweekly podcast named AI cooking spoken by Gregory William Forsythe forming from Kid yo yo Thank you. Thanks comics for Blogger.

1:59:22 The only ones like when's the show you're doing the show as the show live because I got a boost right now. I want to make sure I get Did you receive the boost? He gets a boost. Can you confirm to get the boost? I like I like F Russia and also listen to my podcast. Yeah, it's such a friendly way of promoting it. Monthly contributors. That's our booths. And yes, thank you everybody. Monthly guys are a pod verse $50. Thank you pod verse. DT. Chris hyperbaric $10 And congratulations to Chris for shipping. The podcast, Jimmy YES. Very nice. Mitch Downey $10 Thank you, Mitch. Lauren ball $24.20 Lauren, I don't know what that numerology means if you can tell me 24 What? $24.20 or 20?

2:00:13 I don't know. I don't know either. Cameron Rose $25 Jeremy new $5 and David Mitas $10 A David, I forgot to follow up with you. I was helping I was helping David with a move his stuff from voltage to an Umbral, and I think it rolled off my Mastodon and I forgot to go back. So ping me and I'll help you if you still need up. Oh, now that's, that's actually kind of important. Okay, because it's very hard when you move to a different value block or node in your in your value block. There's so much caching going on? Yeah, it's because I knew when when my node broke, I still wanted to be able to get the 1% from no agenda to see what was coming in during the during the big four hour extravaganza, so I switched it over to my backup node. I have a second Umbral here. And I would say probably, I don't know, maybe 40% went there and the rest failed because the other node was down. It was your split your split brain at that point, you get to things happen. And yeah, but it's, I don't know, just replay. It's one thing to be able to replace. And I think we talked about this, you know, what if I just want to migrate all of the curry in the keeper to a different node ID. So that

2:01:45 would have to be changed in the database for every single episode because I do it by episode not by channel. Yeah. And then and then apps just seem to be caching it. Yeah. Yeah, the cat I don't know. As most of the caches seem like they're fairly sane. I mean, like five minutes or so. But then there's a couple that are always a little confused me a little bit. Yeah. I don't know. Just throwing it out there. Boris Berezovsky. $1. Joseph maraca $5 Mark Graham $1 Chad Pharaoh $20.22. Thank you, Chad. I don't know what that numerology is either 2120 22 or 2022 is the year we're in the year. Hello. Hello.

2:02:31 Yeah, I need to take my pants back off. Oops. Loretta Vandenberg. $10. Scott Jalbert. $12. In that's our group. Thank you all so much. That is done these. There's some new names in here that I don't think I've heard some new boost. Yeah, his name, man. Thank you, thank you all so much for supporting the project for supporting the show for supporting the work. It goes toward goes directly towards everything we're doing. The nodes, the liquidity, the servers, the polars is everything. And vortex, the polar vortex. And please continue to support us any way you can with anything you want. We take time, talent and treasure. It doesn't have to be money it can be doing some code can be working on the website can be I mean that you can participate in many, many ways we do ultimately need treasure as well. But so far, we're moving ahead and we're breaking even so we feel pretty good about it. And we can always just shut down shit. Go from from nine to seven polars. Okay, so it's a little slower. It should be okay. It's dynamic.

2:03:35 That way we can scale it dynamically. jpg got it? I got an ISO. Oh, you want to drop that one? Yeah, a premium experience on quant. It's a premium experience. That's what it was. Yes, we are a premium experience. We are. Unquote. Okay. The Yeah. JpT. So this is a proposal upon the namespace. And if you are so inclined and feel a technical bent toward it, I would suggest that some that you go read it. The The idea here is that at some point in the future we're going to need and this is not just applicable to lightning, by the way this is this is applicable to a lot. Lots of things. This is meant to be sort of a generic payment receipt. So we can mentioned earlier that if you were going to do certain things that really required you imagine something like an open subscription, which is which is what we've been working on. We talked about at the dev meeting the other day, a way to do an open subscription mechanism.

2:04:51 Open Standards, such a way of saying okay, yes, I am a paying subscriber to this podcast if you wanted to pay while your podcast Well, if you're going to claim that you are a that you are a subscriber, you could, you would need some sort of payment verification or a cryptographic receipt to show that you hear this is there's my here's my receipt, I'm showing you that I'm not a valid purchaser, right. It's the it's the missing piece of the of keys and booster grams is, you know, it just shows up, you don't really know who it's from, except for an alias that used to this would be the kind of the doing the invoice in reverse. Is that Is that fair?

2:05:40 Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Be aware. That's a good yeah, the invoice in reverse. So you did the invoice, the invoice Creator knows they got paid, but the payer cam can prove show, right? I can't prove it. They can't prove it was them, right. And so this is a this is a way to do that. And then you could say, Okay, I've got I now have this cryptographic receipt. And I can use that for fill in the blank, like what in your example would be, I'm going to, I'm going to prove that I just paid you and therefore now I get this badge or something. And I mean, this is where my mind goes, immediately love this.

2:06:24 leaderboards. Who was of course, just forget, for a moment, everyone has to have buy in it's you're allowed to publish it. But I would love to know who the biggest supporters are of an episode or podcast, and I'm listening to. And quite honestly, I'd also then like to know what else that person has supported. You want to talk about a rating system. This is ratings. This is ratings with money. This is very smart. Yeah, and you can you can imagine opting it you know, like, as a listener, you're opting in as a here's, here's all my, I'm just going to kind of shuffle all my receipts to you so that you can see this, this leaderboard, and I can prove, it's almost like, almost like Stack Overflow. You know, where you like, up vote people that do certain things. You're like, proving that you're the one that did all these things.

2:07:15 And and that can be for levels like no agenda, we have, you know, nights and we have a whole period system. Also, it can be used to send something back, if you have some kind of premium prize or some other thing going on in the show, you can then send it back send something to the person. Yes, reached out to to Jake Shapiro, and send him an email over at Apple. He used to be a podcast Republic. Now he's at Apple. And just inquiring about an old spec that they had written while he was there at podcast Republic about called pod paths. And we've talked about it before. It's the open Namsa social credit, just saw that. No, no, it doesn't. It could be used for that, though. Yeah. That that's a different discussion that we need to have. But that'd be but that's okay.

2:08:12 Because it's completely open. You know, the social credit score is only creepy if it's controlled by one entity or the government. Otherwise, it can be a community credit score. Community Credit Score. Big difference. Yeah, I want to talk about that next week because the blue sky stuff they came out. I don't think I don't think we have time to talk about it today. But no, you should listen. You should listen to Dave whiners podcast about it this morning. No, did he tweet? He did a 20 minute podcast, just for Jack Dorsey. No spoilers spoiler spoiler, it's never gonna work.

2:08:53 Well, it may not. And you know, who knows? But so you can imagine that that you have this, you have this tote, you know, this payment token. And then you can take you know, you can take that and plug it into the the open subscription model in reached out to Jake to see if he's even if him or Apple or anybody can just are interested in working on on an open spec on this. And then you can take this, this this token and verify that, um, I am I did purchase a subscription to this podcast.

2:09:35 And in the app, that app can I can hand that off to the to the to the podcast host. And then you don't have to have a separate fee like a private member's only fee and also if you can have the standard feed and inside that feed it has. It has specific subscription only episodes perhaps like bonus episodes, all this stuff that people like to do. And then You can, and those become unlocked as you pass the token back. And what what exactly did you want to get from Jake? Just just a signal as to whether he's willing to pick this back back up that they wrote before he went to Apple and continue helping with it outputs? I think we, yeah.

2:10:22 Nearly responsive. Not yet. Okay. Me, me No, but but I do. See here's here's the thing, I think I think that if. So, Spotify is is open access platform thing, which is supposed to be an open spec. I mean, I understand, but really, it's all about. Sure, it's an open standard. But it's an open standard that's only focused on getting your purchase to content into Spotify. So, and it's this OAuth handshake stuff going on all in it. If there wasn't an open spec, it was truly neutral. And I've heard that the open access platform spec does not work all that well. Anyway, if there was a truly neutral, open specification for pilot for subscribable content is in this simple and dependable and cryptographically secure.

2:11:20 I can see Apple doing that. I mean it because they're going to make their 30%. Cut either way. And once there's an open spec, I mean, like, at this point, Apple just wants to sell their subscriptions. They will sell subscriptions. They don't really care whether it's through their app. I know. That's where I disagree. I disagree. Apple is about the whole experience, from front to back. They want to control the entire experience. I it's I love the concept. I love this ideological instead of Yes, well, that's just what they do. I mean, they want to control the whole experience. It's like Twitter, Twitter wants to control the whole experience. You can do stuff with their API, but you can't control the experience they do. So if they if they had, I don't know why I'm focusing on that. But I guess just because he wrote the spec, and I'm, I want to get his feedback on it.

2:12:18 But so if they had a way to extend their subscribable content to let's just say, overcast, you don't think they do it? No. They won't. Look, I have 100,000 Running annual bet in Satoshis, that they that they'll never create a an android version either. I agree with that. I mean, don't wait, what do you think they would do first and Android version or, or open up subscriptions? So they work on any podcast player? They need to they need to control the experience for the user feedback? I mean, it's just doesn't seem like that's Apple demand. They control it all.

2:13:01 They always have you still can't look at iOS. You don't control the experience and iOS. True? Well, by every response, we'll have our answer. I mean, I don't, I'm not not trying to, to pop the balloon because I love the idea. I just, I love the idea of using it for us. I don't care if Apple does it or not? Well, I guess that's, I guess that's what I wanted to do is really reach out and say, Okay, well, here's this spec that exist, and I don't want to go create a brand new thing. If we don't have to, you know, can we just use his spec and improve it? Well, that's, uh, yeah, I want to improve it, I think what we would do is just take, take the sort of ideas behind it, and then just adjust it to whatever we wanted it to be. Okay. And, and it would be, it would be great if we could have the original authors sort of on board. But if we can't, then we'll just do our own thing. It would be a huge win. If you and you are the guy. If anyone from Apple is going to reach out and say, Hey, let's look at this.

2:14:01 You're the guy. You're the guy to convince him. I'm the guy you want to get the sage baby to pod sage. The pope of polars I just wish they would do pod ping first instead of anything else but that's not Jake's area. I'm sure not 100% night. I'll totally agree. Yeah, that's another thing that we need to be at. At Podcast Movement We need to start making noise about that about how Apple's killing the earth. That's the way to make friends. Yeah. Hey, good. Hey, you know what? Good strategy they they tout their greenness all the time, how all their their rare earth minerals are recycled aluminum. They're doing stuff all the time, but meanwhile, they might as well just be spewing diesel smoke into the air 24/7 on their polling initiatives. Did you know that pod ping is built 80% from recycled ocean plastic Yes, I did actually.

2:15:04 They'd only kills two polar bear cubs a month. You know, we have this, we have this great account on the bot that podcast index dot social. Let me just bring it up here. I want to get it right. The bot is the pod ping bot. I love that thing. And so it gives you that here it is. So it's the pod ping stats bot. And it gives you the stats. So it says, here's the custom JSON Post report for the last day, post count 3946 2.7 posts per minute, which I've seen much higher. I've seen a double that almost total URLs 16,015 of which 8081 are unique. I mean, all I want here is one additional line that says two babies the two polar bear cubs were saved.

2:15:54 Or created. saved or created by pod ping. Yeah, you can totally I mean, just say a how many or how much? How much energy to kill a baby polar bear cub? Yeah, we just need it. We need we need a graphic with a baby polar bear floating on on a piece of ice on a piece of server. In the Arctic? Yes. By the way that that whole thing is shiny dot pod ping dash stats.com is phenomenal. Yeah, I love that thing. I mean that that's I'm gonna actually want to put that link in the show notes. That is such an exciting thing to look at. I don't this, you know, it is amazing how difficult it is to get hosting companies to send a GET request one GET request. That's all it takes. Yeah. Now Now I did. I did reach out to to pod bean because we were having some trouble with the new polar. It was getting for 29. So that means that's that's a status code. That means too many requests. So we were being sort of throttle throttle. They were throttling us. Okay. I don't know how long that had been going on. But it may have been for a while.

2:17:08 So we reached out did Franco hooked me up with I think it's Sergio. I think it's Sergio over at pod bean. And they were very responsive. Quickly whitelisted our IPs for our aggregators and had that fixed quick. So I'm really appreciative to them and out till I gave them you know, give them the info on piping and everything. He's like, Yeah, we'll try it. You know, we'll check it out. And I think he was I think he was sincere. I think he really they were I think they actually will check it out. From the way he was talking. It is it is so low. It is so LIC private.transistor.fm is also pod pinging.

2:17:52 Yeah, we we do not ingest those ingest those Yeah, because they have block tags. Got it. Got it. And the blood tag, you know, we're we're working on it. It's, um, hopefully hopefully it'll be done for this year for Phase Five. So Buzzsprout is number one. transistor.fm number two today closely followed by rss.com then Captivate pod surf. And then any show notes.com I'm on the leaderboard. caproni.fm also does does pod ping. That's another host. Just cast. They also do do pod ping. I mean, there's quite a few now we're almost at 6 million pod pink served. Datsun 5,961,155 This is beautiful.

2:18:48 What else you got? I got to head to work here in a few minutes. So what you got Saturday work Dave Jones. What is this? Yes. Oh, this is no good. This will not stand is the district government the freakin IRS? Oh, man. They don't hear about podcasting. They do not. I think that's it. I don't have any. Let me see anything else on my list? Man, we did a lot and there's still so much more to talk about. suggestion for your next vacation, just go out in the backyard and fire up the grill. You know, you are so right. We both were like Oh, my God, being at home is so much nicer than than where then where are we? I was the longest week ever. It's okay. We'll, we'll The problem is I've lost confidence in the in the aviation travel system. You know, that's what I was mentioned to you today. I mean, like, I'm not blaming them for for all of this. I mean, obviously there be the the airline industry has some has made missteps clearly but I mean, with all the lock downs, I mean, not not everything is their fault. But I mean, at the end of it all, if they don't fix this It can really seriously damage the airline industry. Because if people don't think that they're if people have no confidence that their flights are actually going to succeed in you add on to that the the absorbent cost of flying today. I mean, people just start to they'll just opt out. I mean, they they were

2:20:20 going to Chicago in May, at the end of May. Me and my wife and my daughter, were going up there like end of May to see a Shakespeare play and do some other things for the weekend. And I looked at the, at the flight even for three people. It was like nearly two grand for a roundtrip flight. And we're like, we're like now we're just draft. Okay, so just briefly on this because I do know a lot about what's going on. First of all, in the United States, and most countries, the aviation industry is pretty much government. subsidized, so. And they got a lot a lot of bailout money during the lock downs here in the United States. And so did the aircraft manufacturers, just hundreds of billions of dollars went into them. The problem is four years since I've been tracking it 2008 The aviation the government, part of the aviation industry has wanted to push through something called Next Gen. And next gen is basically self flying planes. No pilots, because you know, pilots are idiots. They're no good. You don't need pilots. Pilots have been disrespected in the industry for decades. You're starting pilot, you've you've put 100 grand into your, your transportation license, airline transportation license, you have this debt, you're gonna go work start off at a regional airline, you're gonna make about 25 to $30,000 a year. I'm not kidding. And then you can work your way

2:21:53 up from there into below the poverty line. Yes, sir. Oh, yeah. And you're gonna sleep in shitty hotel rooms with or the kind of like, apartments that you may rent with five or six different air crew and there'll be five or six people sleeping there overnight. It's a very, very tough existence. You have to love flying. So they are disrespected. You know, there's always been disputes about pay, they have pretty strong pilots union. And then when the lockdowns came, and the mandates vaccination mandates, which is very personal to pilots, you know, and there's a lot of issues with what people will put in their bodies when they have to self declare they feel good or not. And so many pilots retired a lot and just said, Fuck it, I'm not going to do it anymore. We will need 60,000 pilots in the United States over the next two years.

2:22:44 They're not there. They're not being trained. Neal now airlines are starting to come up with some incentives. So it's broken. And I don't think it's coming back. And what's worse is the US government is doing that same old thing. This a lot. You know what we're going to do high speed rail. They've always wanted to get rid of aviation. Yep, they're gonna do it again. They're gonna do high speed rail. The President Biden is talking about it again, just imagine coast to coast and the same amount of time it takes to fly to their fencing in this thing for since Obama since Obama was Obama pushed it really hard. Remember that you don't have to take off your shoes when taking the train. Yeah, and none of it, it all vapor. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people got money for, you know, analysis and spec, you know, specking it out and doing evaluations of the land and everything. And then nothing ever happened know that they were going to do Los Angeles to San Francisco, high speed rail.

2:23:43 It was going to cost there's going to cost like, I think $8 billion. They finally made it to Bakersfield. And it's cost 80 $80 billion dollars. I'm shocked. Oh, yeah. And this is stunning. Yeah, of course. So just like everything else, I believe aviation will change. I can already see it happening. We will see new types of aircraft which are incredibly efficient to fly and will be able to fly you know, 668 passengers. These will be dedicated routes, where you'll pay pretty much what you pay for a full fare ticket. You're not a discounted ticket. And then these you know, there will be places you can go and it will be a decentralized system. Maybe people will start to connect you know, we have a very mature private jet infrastructure in United States that's unaffordable for it's just unaffordable. But we will get this for smaller aircraft, and we and it will work and people will start using it but the big airlines, I think that's broken and I will never fly again. Well, here's one thing. So my dad's internment is, is this weekend in Armonk, New York.

2:25:00 And we're flying on Friday. But I think I want to do the same thing I want to do our show Thursday night after no agenda so we can stay overnight at the airport because I it's going to be a frickin Friday to fly to New York is going to be a disaster. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's that's where it gets hard because then you got some things that you just you, you there's really no alternative. I mean, you What are you going to drive 26 hours to get? No, no. I mean, it's just not possible. No, I mean, I if if you have six people, it becomes reasonable to rent on a Thursday night or do you want to do it Saturday morning like we're doing now? No, no, no, because this is no Saturday is the actual internment.

2:25:50 Oh, you're gonna be gone? Yeah, no. So the deal is we fly Friday. Christina, my daughter is coming in from from Holland. So we're supposed to meet at the airport in JFK. Hopefully that all works. You haven't seen her in like three years? No, no, no, I was there for her birthday last year. But I can't go back. I can't get into the country anymore. Because of vaccination requirements. So she's coming and then we're going to go into the city we're going to see my stepdaughter and then we're going to fly back to Texas Christina is coming back to us and and then she'll stay for a few days and then she goes back so it's gonna be great but and I'm going to be doing no agenda from from the road on that Sunday. But Saturday is the actual blowing dust around stuff. Yeah.

2:26:45 Well, I got in by the way, I'm on one on one gig fibre now. So No kidding. Yeah, man are stable. We're on the wire. Yeah. Well, I'm still basically dial up here in the hill country, but you're here. You're you're saying that you were doing no agenda from the road? I was like, Oh, crap hotel Wi Fi and yeah. Oh, yeah. It's always fun. Okay, well, Thursday night. Yeah. Hey, man. This was long but good update. I think we kind of caught up on stuff. Yeah. Back and yes, you know, worse for the wear. Alright, man, I know you're working today. So have a good one. That kind of everybody. That's it for a board meeting podcasting. 2.0 Join us again next Friday. We'll have it up for you on time. Have a great weekend. Talk to you soon.

2:27:49 You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org for more information. Experience