Episode 154: Fedified Blob

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Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0
for November 10 2023, Episode

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154, feta find blob Oh, hello,
everybody, it's time once again,

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for podcasting 2.0 only born
from the hazards champagne room.

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Here's where we discuss the
current state of the art in

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podcasting. What's coming in the
future what is happening right

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now everything going on at
podcast index.org The namespace

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podcast index dot social. I'm
Adam curry here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill Country and in
Alabama. That's not dirt on his

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hands. It's just a little bit of
rust. Say hello to my friend on

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the other end ladies and
gentlemen, Mr. Jones.

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Dave Jones: So, yes, a young
discovered tonight at dinner

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young people have they don't
understand humor? They're afraid

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of it.

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Adam Curry: They're afraid of
it. Yes. I believe they're

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afraid of you. They're terrified

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Dave Jones: to laugh at things
in front of other people.

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Adam Curry: Oh, that's horrible.
Yes. You can't do that. Like

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they don't understand

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Dave Jones: that. Like, jokes
about culture. cultural things

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are not the same thing as being
mean. No, like, no. So we go to

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India, we go to the Indian
restaurant. Oh,

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Adam Curry: and did you go a
nice data your head how you

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doing? No, I did not say that.
Okay, that was that will be me.

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Dave Jones: There was a picture.
Let me see. Let me send you this

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picture. So when we get home,
okay. Picture out. There's a

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picture on the wall. Yes.

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Adam Curry: You took a picture
of the picture on the wall. You

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did know I found

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Dave Jones: it on the internet
when I got home because I didn't

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know that this was okay. Let me
see. Okay, so here's this.

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Here's this link.

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Adam Curry: Something. Okay.
Yeah, this looks like some

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important dude. It does. Yeah,
it looks like looks like Indian

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Santa Claus. Is that

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because we are the same Dave
Jones. I'm certainly. So putting

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this in the show notes.

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Dave Jones: At the Indian
restaurant in the first thing I

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said, I was like, Who is that?
Is that Indian Santa Claus.

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Adam Curry: Your kids were
mortified. My daughter

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Dave Jones: was like, Dad, she's
looking around like she just

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bought drugs. And I was like,
awesome. Like, I'm like, it's

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funny. Like, I'm like, okay,
that's not disrespectful.

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Adam Curry: it to make it make

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Dave Jones: people laugh at
American stuff all the time. You

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know why? Because?

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Adam Curry: Exactly. We're
ridiculous. Oh, man, that is so

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that's too much. Yes. I totally
get that. I see it right away.

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Yes. Indian Santa Claus. Yeah.

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Dave Jones: This is a very
important guy. Oh, yeah. No

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Adam Curry: doubt. Well, that's
as Sam said that he can. He can

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tell us we'll put it in the show
notes. Ladies and gentlemen.

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This is your podcasting. 2.0
board meeting after dark. That's

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right. Welcome to the to the
lounge where we discuss

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everything going on with
podcasting. How're you doing?

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Mr. Jones? Can I pour you a
martini?

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Dave Jones: Yes. Better. You
have a cigar. You

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Adam Curry: know, I gave up the
smoking. Right? Yeah, you

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Dave Jones: get a new grill. You
don't want to tarnish it?

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Adam Curry: Do not not and you
know what? I am good with my

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lungs. I think I polluted them
for about 45 of the 59 years

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that I've been on this earth.
I'm pretty good. Now I'm just

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going for the liver. I'm going
to

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Dave Jones: see we can damage
the moving target. You've moved

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targets down to the liver. Yes.

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Adam Curry: But I can understand
that. You know, if if you and I

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were truly in this in this
lounge, and you know, I think

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I'd probably want a martini and
I think I just might even just

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to hold it. I might want a
cigarette you know, just like

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they just hold it. There's this
great documentary about Frank

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Sinatra on Netflix. What's it
called? Give it to Sinatra?

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Dave Jones: It's no creative
name.

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Adam Curry: It's it's mainly
about his life in Palm Springs.

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And, and what I mean for the
time, right, it's no longer that

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time. But one of the awesome
kind of life that must have been

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hanging out with his boys, you
know, going out every night to a

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different restaurant.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, the Rat

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Adam Curry: Pack the well no,
no, he Well, The Rat Pack was

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the Vegas thing but this was
just his guys okay. And he would

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read the Palm Springs newspaper
every morning and anyone who

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seemed in trouble you call up
his lawyers had send them money.

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Dave Jones: Well, I just love to
be that guy. Oh, yeah. What a

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stood. Yeah,

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Adam Curry: yeah, but you
wouldn't tell anybody It only

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found out about this way after
his death.

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Dave Jones: Oh, so he's the
Walmart. He's the Walmart is

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yes. Secret Secret Santa?

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Adam Curry: Yes. From India?
Yes. And I want it since we're

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here in the lounge. I just
wanted to say Dave Jones. Thank

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you for all that you do with
podcasting? 2.0 Thank you for

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all the things that you do. You
are not praised enough. I would

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have to say your habit dancing
girl.

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Dave Jones: Thank you, Nan pray
I'm praised. Plenty and too

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much. No,

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Adam Curry: not enough. No, I
don't think so. I don't think I

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was walking with Phoebe and
like, come on. We gotta get you

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gotta go. You gotta poop before
the show. And you're thinking,

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you know? And I think maybe it's
because you weren't feeling

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well. How are you feeling now,
by the way?

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Dave Jones: Oh, I'm great. I'm
like,

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Adam Curry: You're not coughing.
Okay.

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Dave Jones: This cough is this
is one of those calls where it

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calls for I can tell as it
carves, like, that's a plural.

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Whatever that is. Yes. That you
can just tell it's going to be

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around for a month. Yeah, it's
Oh,

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Adam Curry: I hate those. Yeah,
those suck

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Dave Jones: it up, get rid of
it's just like this just niggles

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at, you know, I

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Adam Curry: think it's the older
I get, I just the more I look at

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fatality or mortality, I should
say, I just look at it. And I

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think, dude, I want to be doing
this for a long time with you. I

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really do. I wanted to have to
do less responsibility, you

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know, the Fed defying the index
is a great mission that we're

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on. Now,

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Dave Jones: which I have, which
I have, I have things to reveal.

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Adam Curry: Let's Why don't we
why don't we start with that?

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Because that's, so people have
to understand, although we've

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never really discussed it, I
think per se as a as a mission

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is become an an almost an
unspoken mission that you and I

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agree on, just in our soul, is
you know, we need to eliminate

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ourselves. The index has to
eventually be eliminated into

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something that makes this that
everything just works without

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relying on us. And when I say
us, I mean the index, because of

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course without us it all falls
apart. But but the index so

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yeah, so that's the term I'm
using feta fie feta. fIying. The

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index i

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Dave Jones: like that term.
Yeah,

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Adam Curry: that's a good term.
Yeah, I wonder if it's is an

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actual verb.

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Dave Jones: It is now that
sounds as you can silicon

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Silicon Valley can turn anything
into it, but just take just take

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out

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Adam Curry: the edge take out
the vowels. Yeah, for different

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for the finger. For the fingers
finishing the

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Dave Jones: so the ES the eye.
And also this is going to take

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years. I mean, that's just it's
clear that because it's so hard,

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you know,

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Adam Curry: no, that's not true.
If you just use hive it'll be

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working tomorrow you know that?

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Dave Jones: Yes, that's true. We
haven't had our call with no

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Adam Curry: we haven't we have
we have to because he's gonna

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show us how to do it. Yeah,
right.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, that's gonna
it's gonna take a long time. So

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this is like it's I've honestly
see this project now as the as

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the life that this life mission
to to fortify the the index so

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that so that podcasting and its
data is just this big, amorphous

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decentralized fat a fat blob,
feta FIDE blob. Nice, yes.

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Verified blog.

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Adam Curry: It's kind of
something we some people want to

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be in the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame. We want to feticide blob,

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you

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Dave Jones: get no recognition
for that. Like, that's not

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you're not in any Hall of Fame's
for that. That's just the thing

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you do and then you die.

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Adam Curry: Yeah, yes. Yeah,
correct. You

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Dave Jones: have fun doing it?

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Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, have lots
of fun. That's the whole point.

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Dave Jones: So what I've been
what I've been working on this

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week. Do you want to see it?

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Adam Curry: Oh, you Oh, you wait
me you have something you have

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show until you have your link.
Do you have a PowerPoint for the

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boardroom? Widgets. Okay. Oh,
all right. What are you gonna

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give me here?

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Dave Jones: Well, okay, like,
let me let me find a podcast

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real quick. What? Let's see,
what can we do podcasts? Let's

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do club random because we
mentioned as Bill Maher's. Okay,

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podcast because I had been
listening to that a lot as it

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gets you

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Adam Curry: a lot out of it. HBO
show and I'll tell you that.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, his podcast is
actually really good.

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Adam Curry: Because he has all
kinds of cool people on from all

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across the spectrum.

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Dave Jones: And he argued, he
had Neil deGrasse Tyson. He just

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heard that.

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Adam Curry: And in that case,
the video was kind of fun just

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to watch. Neil deGrasse Tyson
get all uncomfortable. It's

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pretty funny to watch that.

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Dave Jones: He was he was like,
at one point he sold him he's

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like You're ridiculous.

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Adam Curry: Pretty much

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Dave Jones: yeah let's see okay
so pick podcasting index slash

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social no agenda social any any
Mastodon instance you have okay

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I have one podcast index dot
social in the search like you're

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going to search for somebody to
follow type in 5195196349634

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Adam Curry: That would be the
podcast index ID for

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Dave Jones: club random with
Bill Maher okay 99636340 At okay

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at AP AP dot podcast index.org

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Adam Curry: Wow this is sexy

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Dave Jones: AP obviously
standing for activity book.

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Adam Curry: Whoa,

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Dave Jones: follow get home What

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Adam Curry: is this? What is
this sexy stuff? All right 40

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posts

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Dave Jones: but we got a lot to
talk about here with this

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Adam Curry: I have to browse
more on the original profile

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though. Yeah. Which takes me
which takes me to the okay

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Dave Jones: a bunch of JSON yep

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Adam Curry: I'm still I'm still
amazed by what I just saw. So

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I'm basically I'm seeing a
profile called Club random with

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Bill Bill Maher it has the app
that 5199 64 At apt a pocket

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podcast index.org It has the
show description Bill Maher

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rewrites the rules of podcasting
the way it did in the television

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in the series of one up
truncated. It's truncated and it

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says 40 posts and says bra Okay,
so clearly something sexy has

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happened in here.

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Dave Jones: Okay, so what there
is now there is now a server

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running at a P dot podcast
index.org another server it's

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actually repurposed so it was
with his not add to our to our

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monthly bills. Okay, I

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Adam Curry: approve all these
things immediately, you know,

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improve on whatever you want to
do.

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Dave Jones: The Alright, so this
is an activity. I'm writing an

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activity pub server. Brit
bridge, so this is going to

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Adam Curry: bridge Yes, yes, the

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Dave Jones: index to activity,
man. And so this is

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Adam Curry: the next alpha the
next step is bridging pod ping

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to this north that down the
line? Well,

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Dave Jones: we'll we'll Britt
eventually bridge everything's

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we'll put the index everywhere
that people are man. So but on

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but on the back end, pod ping
will also be into blood p2p. So

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that'll be it'll be in a DHT
space. We're, you know, there's

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this is sort of the front end
bridge, that'll be the back end.

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Adam Curry: The back end is the
blob that we don't really have

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to know about. We just see the
front end front end interfaces

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Dave Jones: doing his job yet,
right. Wow. That Okay, so the,

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the, the service, what I started
with was how do you know how do

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you write the most like minimal
activity pub server possible?

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Adam Curry: Oh, I do that in
rust?

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Dave Jones: Yes, that's exactly
how did you know

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Adam Curry: I'm putting two and
two together day.

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Dave Jones: So this, this, this
server I've learned a whole lot

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about activity pub this week.
One thing I learned is that all

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the frustrations of people that
talk about activity pub being

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too tied in like the the
activity pub people that are

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frustrated with Mastodon, that
is a that is a real thing. And I

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now fully understand it. That's
a valid complaint. Okay, it is

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very valid. Yes. Because what
Mastodon Mastodon does its own

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thing, and it's loosely
compliant with activity. But in

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it's not in what it doesn't do
things in the ways that make

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sense. So you don't there's a
lot of little gotchas. But so

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here, here's what's happening
when you search in this will

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help people understand activity,
but because it's actually not as

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complicated as it sounds. And
under the covers is pretty, it's

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a pretty easy thing. So when you
quit when you just searched what

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what Matt, what Mastodon does,
is it immediately sends a web

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finger query. So web this this
web finger query is web

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Adam Curry: finger. Sorry, it

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Dave Jones: sing it plays that
plays that jingle Yes. Sends a

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get request. After it's
finished, it sends a GET request

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to the to API dot podcast
index.org/dot well known slash

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web finger the end with the with
a resource of 5199634. That's

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the parameters. You're right,
right

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Adam Curry: and there and then
it then it says, Hello mailbox

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what you got? Yeah.

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Dave Jones: And it's like, okay,
what what it's resolving that is

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trying to resolve that to some
actual data about this account.

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And then at that, we're at that
web finger address. There's a

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JSON document that lists a bunch
of URLs, one of which is what's

259
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:54,510
called inactivity pub speak, the
actor. So the so the actor in

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this instance, is 5199634, at AP
dot podcast, index.org. And all

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the act all an actor is, is just
a JSON document describing

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specifically LD JSON that
describes or JSON LD describes,

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in detail, just

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Adam Curry: got all the stuff
here, we've got followers

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following features. It's got all
that stuff in there.

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Dave Jones: Right. And so the so
that's, so that's what happens

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next. So it looks up that does
the web finger gets the URL for

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the actors document it and then
and then calls it to get details

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about the profile for some
reason Mastodon calls with

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finger again, I don't know why.
I still haven't figured that

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part out. I don't know what it's
doing under the covers. But then

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we wouldn't

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Adam Curry: have a public key
here to authenticate that it's

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the real deal.

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Dave Jones: Yes. So activity pub
or I don't know that it's

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required in the spec but
Mastodon for certainly requires

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that did Yes, signing, right
that the requests are signed,

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got

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Adam Curry: a podcast, good
here, all kinds of groovy stuff.

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Dave Jones: So then, next thing
it does is when it gets that

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00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:17,460
actor document, the actor lists
out a bunch of URLs, one of

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which are is your inbox URL,
right, your outbox URL? The

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Fall, your feature lowers
endpoint and the featured

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endpoint so you're so the
featured endpoint is what are

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your your pinned posts. So if
you call the featured endpoint

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00:17:38,820 --> 00:17:42,240
you're gonna get back a list of
pinned posts for that account.

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If you call the the outbox
you're going to get a list a

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00:17:49,290 --> 00:17:55,650
list of like a page or five list
of all the posts that that actor

289
00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:59,430
has has posted all the notes
that they share to ensure

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00:18:00,450 --> 00:18:04,560
followers as a list of all the
followers blah blah blah. So

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which by

292
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Adam Curry: itself would be
startling and amazing in

293
00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:12,090
podcasting to see who else is
following just saying

294
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Dave Jones: so right up front
you cannot follow this account

295
00:18:17,250 --> 00:18:21,870
yet. Right? You can click follow
and your server will think as

296
00:18:21,870 --> 00:18:24,240
you're following it but nothing
is actually happening right

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00:18:24,270 --> 00:18:32,880
right in the read the reason for
that is inactivity pub world and

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specifically in Mastodon this
made me rephrase that inactivity

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00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:43,440
post world things are posted to
inboxes that's how people get

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00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:44,310
things Yeah,

301
00:18:44,340 --> 00:18:46,440
Adam Curry: so if you're
following then you get that post

302
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,300
to your inbox right so

303
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:51,330
Dave Jones: if you follow when
you click the Follow button and

304
00:18:51,330 --> 00:18:58,470
Mastodon to follow club random
5199634 It's what it should do

305
00:18:59,250 --> 00:19:09,840
is send a signed request to the
5199634 inbox URL on on AP dot

306
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:15,840
podcast index.org with an action
of follow and then apt up I

307
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:21,210
guess index.org should respond
and say accepted that's what

308
00:19:21,210 --> 00:19:27,240
should happen for some reason
Mastodon is not doing that

309
00:19:27,450 --> 00:19:30,210
Adam Curry: right I even see
Council follow because I would

310
00:19:30,210 --> 00:19:34,770
presume that there has to be
some handshake here after I

311
00:19:34,770 --> 00:19:38,670
follow it has to say yes, you're
following me so it's giving I

312
00:19:38,670 --> 00:19:41,700
just refresh the page to see if
it had an extra follow or does

313
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:46,020
not but it says cancel follow so
that means that my activity pub

314
00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:49,590
account is waiting for some
confirmation I guess.

315
00:19:50,220 --> 00:19:52,740
Dave Jones: Right it's waiting
for a confirmation but it's but

316
00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:55,500
it's never gonna get one because
it's not sending it and I don't

317
00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:59,550
know why. Right. So they there's
a lot of things. Why not sure a

318
00:19:59,550 --> 00:20:06,060
white man Well it's Bill
Maher's. So there's a lot

319
00:20:06,090 --> 00:20:08,040
there's a lot of things that
there's a lot of questions I

320
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,630
still have. Because this this,
it took me about a week to get

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00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:13,350
to this point.

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00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:16,440
Adam Curry: Wow, while you were
sick even that's amazing

323
00:20:17,730 --> 00:20:23,910
Dave Jones: of having sort of
the framework necessary to take

324
00:20:24,090 --> 00:20:30,840
step two. So here's the here's
the things that I'm still

325
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,810
bothered by that I don't have
answers to. And I think in Allah

326
00:20:36,810 --> 00:20:40,020
and some of this, I found out
that mass these are Mastodon

327
00:20:40,020 --> 00:20:47,280
related issues. So. So here if
the outbox URL, if you if you

328
00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:54,690
click on that or go to that, you
get a list of all of the of all

329
00:20:54,690 --> 00:20:59,880
the posts, which should which
are episodes. Now, let me see if

330
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,100
I can actually let me see if I
can pull that

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00:21:02,130 --> 00:21:06,300
Adam Curry: up. I can I can go
right now go to let's see. Oh,

332
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,310
Dave Jones: here it is. Eric
peepee. actually posted it come

333
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:09,540
he posted it in the chat.

334
00:21:11,610 --> 00:21:15,150
Adam Curry: Okay, is it? Oh,
yeah, yeah, boom, there it is.

335
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:19,710
Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. So these
are, these are episodes. Okay,

336
00:21:19,710 --> 00:21:25,020
so that part works. Well, okay.
And so what is happening is you

337
00:21:25,020 --> 00:21:30,720
hit the outbox URL 45199634 on
the AP dot podcast, index.org

338
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,590
server. It makes an API call in
the background to get all the

339
00:21:34,590 --> 00:21:37,350
list of all the episodes and
returns all the episodes as if

340
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:43,740
they were Mastodon, or excuse me
activity pub posts. That part

341
00:21:43,740 --> 00:21:49,980
works. But what you would think
would happen is that when you

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00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:54,090
search for that podcast, and it
shows you his profile of the

343
00:21:54,090 --> 00:21:57,360
Bill Maher show that you see all
the posts, see all the posts

344
00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:01,590
there, right, the mastodon
doesn't do that. Okay. Now Don

345
00:22:01,590 --> 00:22:04,710
does not read the outbox and
show you the old posts.

346
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,830
Adam Curry: Now, how is this
different from? Because this is

347
00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:09,750
so we're still hitting our
server?

348
00:22:10,650 --> 00:22:12,840
Dave Jones: Yes, yes. For now.
Okay. Yes.

349
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,460
Adam Curry: How does this fit in
FY

350
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:25,350
Dave Jones: because it makes the
it fed if edifies it by with

351
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:29,370
this, this is this activity pub
server software. The repos

352
00:22:29,370 --> 00:22:32,310
private right now because it's
got keys and stuff in it. And I

353
00:22:32,340 --> 00:22:35,640
was strip all those out. I'm
going to put make it public. Oh,

354
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,530
and then then fetishize is then
anybody? You we because there

355
00:22:40,530 --> 00:22:41,820
could be 10 of these. Right?

356
00:22:41,820 --> 00:22:44,040
Adam Curry: Right. Right. And
anyone anyone can start what up?

357
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,190
Yeah, I got it. I got it. Right.
In fact, there should be 100 up.

358
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:48,180
Yeah,

359
00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:51,390
Dave Jones: sure. Right. And so
you would just, we can load you

360
00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:54,420
know, we can load balance it or
through Cloudflare and give it

361
00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:57,210
all a DNS round robin, who knows
how we're going to do it. But

362
00:22:57,390 --> 00:23:04,470
we'll figure that part out
later. So Mastodon does not show

363
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:12,630
the outbox. Of of old posts,
which irritates the snot out of

364
00:23:14,010 --> 00:23:19,470
you know, I understand. That's
it. So that's an issue. Also

365
00:23:19,470 --> 00:23:23,520
Mastadon caches profiles of
show. So if I search for a show,

366
00:23:23,790 --> 00:23:30,450
now, like you just did with this
one. It's not it seems to be

367
00:23:30,450 --> 00:23:36,000
just stuck. It's static until
something else happens. I don't

368
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,820
know how it doesn't seem to
refresh in on any sort of

369
00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:46,710
timeframe. Like so if something
changes, like, I don't know how

370
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:51,120
to make that, that update? Maybe
that change it, maybe maybe it

371
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,450
starts updating when it starts
getting inbox notifications? I

372
00:23:54,450 --> 00:24:00,210
don't know. We hadn't got there
yet. In order for the following

373
00:24:00,210 --> 00:24:03,300
to work, so that you can follow
the show, we're going to need a

374
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:04,080
database.

375
00:24:04,170 --> 00:24:06,630
Adam Curry: Yes. Well, that's
that's the next part. Yeah.

376
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:07,860
Yeah. So

377
00:24:07,860 --> 00:24:11,700
Dave Jones: we were going to
need a SQLite database in this

378
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:15,810
thing, so that when follow
requests come in, we can note

379
00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:19,920
who it is. And then in the
database, and which shows they

380
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:20,430
follow.

381
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:24,750
Adam Curry: So you're talking
about a feta FIDE blob that

382
00:24:24,750 --> 00:24:32,610
includes the activity pub server
and a SQL database hanging off

383
00:24:32,610 --> 00:24:36,150
of it. That's a Docker, Docker.
Well, you

384
00:24:36,150 --> 00:24:39,540
Dave Jones: know what this is,
this is just this is how the

385
00:24:39,540 --> 00:24:41,280
same controller

386
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,120
Adam Curry: is what it is.

387
00:24:43,410 --> 00:24:45,990
Dave Jones: Not it? No, this is
not this is free to controller

388
00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:50,010
to point to foreigners. Yes.
This is this is the helipad

389
00:24:50,010 --> 00:24:50,580
framework.

390
00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:52,320
Adam Curry: There you go. Yeah,
I got you.

391
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,570
Dave Jones: I got you. It's
literally the same code just

392
00:24:54,570 --> 00:24:58,380
reengineered to be an activity
post server is SQLite database.

393
00:24:58,830 --> 00:25:02,040
It's literally the same
framework. I love it. We've

394
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,500
already got all right stuff
there. And I'm

395
00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:07,230
Adam Curry: already deployed. So
we just upgrade my helipad and

396
00:25:07,260 --> 00:25:09,750
and add those bits to it. Yeah.

397
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,050
Dave Jones: Yeah, you just turn
your helipad into an activity.

398
00:25:13,050 --> 00:25:13,650
pubs are just

399
00:25:13,650 --> 00:25:15,690
Adam Curry: fine. I'm good for
it. I got five gigabits per

400
00:25:15,690 --> 00:25:16,530
second, I'm good.

401
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,129
Dave Jones: So there's, so
there's that. So we're going to

402
00:25:20,129 --> 00:25:24,119
need a database next. So we can
keep track of all the follows.

403
00:25:26,309 --> 00:25:30,389
And here's, here's, here's a big
one that I did a need. I'm

404
00:25:30,389 --> 00:25:34,169
saying all this out. So people
hear you and help you and help

405
00:25:34,169 --> 00:25:37,769
me Yes, I need information. If
anybody knows why any of this

406
00:25:37,769 --> 00:25:42,299
stuff necessarily doesn't work,
and also advice, because right

407
00:25:42,299 --> 00:25:45,629
now you're searching with
podcast index IDs, because

408
00:25:45,629 --> 00:25:49,649
they're easy. Maybe they should
maybe we shouldn't be tying

409
00:25:49,649 --> 00:25:51,689
these to podcasts indexed IDs,
maybe they should be tied to

410
00:25:51,689 --> 00:25:56,699
Google. It's feed URLs or some,
like, I don't know how to

411
00:25:56,699 --> 00:26:02,519
address these in a way that's
best information, man, new shit

412
00:26:02,519 --> 00:26:08,579
has come to light information.
You know, I don't know. I'm

413
00:26:08,579 --> 00:26:11,399
gonna do it's are long and
complicated and hard to get hard

414
00:26:11,399 --> 00:26:14,459
to type. You know, somebody is
going to be searching for

415
00:26:14,459 --> 00:26:18,209
something that's, I don't know,
this, this. That is something

416
00:26:18,209 --> 00:26:21,329
that I think I need people to
think about and have suggestions

417
00:26:21,329 --> 00:26:21,749
for.

418
00:26:21,810 --> 00:26:23,850
Adam Curry: This is a great
start, though. I'm excited just

419
00:26:23,850 --> 00:26:26,340
by seeing this part. Yeah,

420
00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:30,090
Dave Jones: I get this far. And
I'm like, okay, all right, stop.

421
00:26:30,270 --> 00:26:33,750
Let's discuss publicly and come
up with some things before I get

422
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:36,120
too far down a path that we're
gonna have to unroll, you know,

423
00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:40,470
Adam Curry: right. Well, while
we're on that, then all right.

424
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,540
When it comes to Mastodon as
specifically podcast, index dot

425
00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:50,280
social, I would like to make a
public appeal. Can we not start

426
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,620
threads that are DMS. There's
too much of that going on.

427
00:26:56,790 --> 00:26:59,640
People start with red tag a
whole bunch of people, and it's

428
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,290
only visible to those people.
And here's why I don't like it.

429
00:27:04,740 --> 00:27:07,950
One is rude. Because
exclusionary, it's like, okay,

430
00:27:07,950 --> 00:27:10,020
we're in a secret club, we're
discussing this in the back

431
00:27:10,020 --> 00:27:14,040
room. Don't like it, too. When
you invite someone into that

432
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,880
thread, they can't see the rest
of the posts. So if you're

433
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,790
tagged in this, you get no
context. It doesn't work.

434
00:27:20,850 --> 00:27:25,590
There's no reason we need to be
doing I really, honestly, this

435
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:29,190
happens on Norwegian the
social.com as well, I despise

436
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:33,840
it. That you know, send me an
email if it's an any and even

437
00:27:33,870 --> 00:27:37,530
it's back channeling I don't
like back channeling. We have

438
00:27:37,530 --> 00:27:40,500
this this. We've put this in
place so that everybody can

439
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:45,150
contribute. We don't do it in
the open. Other people can't see

440
00:27:45,150 --> 00:27:48,120
it. You're excluding people. You
may be excluding someone with

441
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:48,780
the answer.

442
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,700
Dave Jones: to true, very true.
Yes. So I totally, totally agree

443
00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:55,890
a second this okay. Past

444
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,380
Adam Curry: emotion, emotion
emotion is is passed. Yeah. It's

445
00:28:01,380 --> 00:28:05,070
just like, let's not do that.
Let's let's not do that. I don't

446
00:28:05,070 --> 00:28:09,240
like I don't like back channels.
This is where podcasting went

447
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,980
wrong. 10 to 13 years ago, back
channels, Slack channels,

448
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,280
they're still out there. I know,
they're out there. Veteran Vitus

449
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,860
to it. I don't lose not mean, I
don't know if you've been

450
00:28:19,860 --> 00:28:22,620
invited to any slack channel.
Oh, no,

451
00:28:22,620 --> 00:28:24,420
Dave Jones: I have not thank
God, I don't want to be in any

452
00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:24,990
of that stuff,

453
00:28:25,020 --> 00:28:27,120
Adam Curry: you know, and then,
and then stuff starts to happen.

454
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:29,190
And then people don't know. And
then when you know, then we're

455
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:30,630
in a bind. So it's not I've

456
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:34,410
Dave Jones: got way too many
ways today. To get my attention

457
00:28:34,410 --> 00:28:35,970
already. I need fewer not more.

458
00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:39,240
Adam Curry: Exactly. In public
is great. Public is good at

459
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,110
this. That's the way it

460
00:28:40,110 --> 00:28:44,280
Dave Jones: should be. Open it
code should be open source and

461
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,210
should so should.

462
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:48,270
Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Yes. Yes.
Yes. Yes.

463
00:28:49,050 --> 00:28:53,610
Dave Jones: It's Yes. You know,
a lot of people are saying good.

464
00:28:54,030 --> 00:28:57,360
I'm totally fine with that,
that, that, you know, we gotta

465
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,450
figure out a way we got to
figure out if that's easy enough

466
00:29:00,450 --> 00:29:02,670
for this to be usable. So Well,
let's

467
00:29:02,670 --> 00:29:04,890
Adam Curry: talk about guid for
a second because that was one of

468
00:29:04,890 --> 00:29:07,590
the long threads. I don't know
if that was a private thread or

469
00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:12,540
not. But people like I love Alex
gates. He's like me, it's like

470
00:29:12,540 --> 00:29:15,270
I'm going to reply to you and
I'm making it now public. That'd

471
00:29:15,270 --> 00:29:17,580
be I'm making it not private
boom public. Okay. Everyone's

472
00:29:17,580 --> 00:29:19,620
like, what what is what I don't
know, what's the context of

473
00:29:19,620 --> 00:29:23,940
this? So there's a lot of
there's a couple of things that

474
00:29:23,940 --> 00:29:27,150
I have my list that have been
going I don't even know where

475
00:29:27,150 --> 00:29:29,970
it's a private threat or not,
from now on everything is going

476
00:29:29,970 --> 00:29:35,970
to be public goods. There's a
question about this goods in

477
00:29:35,970 --> 00:29:41,880
general goods as a centralized
system. That would and I think

478
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,440
we're answering this maybe some
of this now with do we feta fie

479
00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:51,750
good? lookups do we need lots of
good lookups I believe in Gu

480
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:54,000
IDs, I think it's the right way
to go so that we don't have to

481
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,600
rely on me up. So when something
changes, you know, to me, it's

482
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,380
like DNS a good is like DNS.
Write up, you know, I can have

483
00:30:01,380 --> 00:30:04,320
curry.com And I can hook that up
to any server, I want to I can

484
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,640
change it at a whim and go it
should be essentially the same

485
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,100
thing except the GUID brings in
a whole bunch of other goodness,

486
00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:17,580
good goodness. Do we have a
concept for persons? Because

487
00:30:17,580 --> 00:30:21,600
this is part of the conversation
is person gooeys for persons or

488
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,820
what do we do? Yeah. Well, I

489
00:30:23,820 --> 00:30:25,950
Dave Jones: want to, I want to
talk about that to

490
00:30:28,170 --> 00:30:30,180
Adam Curry: the where are we?

491
00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:31,440
Dave Jones: Are we done with
activity? Pub?

492
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:36,360
Adam Curry: Well, I think it
falls into it, doesn't it? As

493
00:30:36,390 --> 00:30:41,220
the as you as you wish. Yeah.
Yeah. What I heard was, somebody

494
00:30:41,220 --> 00:30:44,070
Dave Jones: did come back to the
let's, let's come back to the

495
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:49,470
activity. But we'll talk about
goo goo, it's in people's. Yeah,

496
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:54,360
this conversation like, this has
been necessary for a while that,

497
00:30:54,540 --> 00:31:02,670
that we need some way to.
Alright, the person tag allows

498
00:31:02,670 --> 00:31:04,980
you to define all the
characteristics of the person.

499
00:31:05,580 --> 00:31:08,670
But it doesn't have a way to
sort of like unique globally,

500
00:31:08,670 --> 00:31:13,320
uniquely identify that. Your
specific you're specifying that

501
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,790
information in every single
podcast. And episode, you're

502
00:31:17,790 --> 00:31:23,280
not. There's no central
repository for, you know, if I'm

503
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,980
if I'm Adam curry, and I'm
wanting to put myself into this

504
00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:30,180
thing. How does How do we know
that this this data query over

505
00:31:30,180 --> 00:31:35,100
here is the same one as the one
over there? Brian? Yeah, I think

506
00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:38,490
that some sort of Gu ID makes
sense for all of these things.

507
00:31:38,490 --> 00:31:41,910
Like, it also makes sense for
these this notion of channels.

508
00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:46,530
Adam Curry: Yes. Which is also
on my list. Yes. Yeah. Do you

509
00:31:46,530 --> 00:31:48,600
want a handy one to do all this
in one go?

510
00:31:48,990 --> 00:31:51,660
Dave Jones: Well, I think it's
all the same. Yeah. It?

511
00:31:52,050 --> 00:31:53,550
Adam Curry: I think I think
you're right, yeah.

512
00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:56,700
Dave Jones: So the thing with
podcast goo is, is they're

513
00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:00,810
defined in the feed, because the
feed is the source of truth,

514
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,030
payment for itself. You know,
the feed the feed defines

515
00:32:06,030 --> 00:32:11,820
itself, sort of, like, sort of
like an actor in activity pub.

516
00:32:12,510 --> 00:32:16,470
It defines itself, it's got an
ID in there. And literally, the

517
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:21,000
ID is the URL of the page you're
looking at. It's like, it's,

518
00:32:21,270 --> 00:32:27,240
it's, it's a atomic entity. So
the same thing with with

519
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,250
podcast, if you're gonna have
you're gonna have pocket the

520
00:32:29,250 --> 00:32:33,840
idea here with podcast goods, if
people are using us for looking

521
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,410
at goods and translating them to
feed URLs, but you don't have to

522
00:32:37,410 --> 00:32:40,710
Brian love Brown of London also
has a feed, good resolver

523
00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:45,390
service. The ideal, the idea,
and the future is that, you

524
00:32:45,390 --> 00:32:48,750
know, a people could download
our database today and crank up

525
00:32:48,750 --> 00:32:52,290
have a good resolver service in
two seconds. Right? That's what

526
00:32:52,290 --> 00:32:56,160
Brian did. Yes, I think his code
is public. We can have as many

527
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,090
of these as we want. It doesn't
have to be us. So all you got to

528
00:33:00,090 --> 00:33:03,090
do is read all the feeds and
look at their Gu IDs, and then

529
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:09,780
you got a database. Yes. But the
persons and so the let's talk

530
00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:17,250
about so like person Gu ID.
That's a little different. That

531
00:33:17,250 --> 00:33:21,600
seems to need to be defined
outside of it, because the feed

532
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,870
is not the source of truth for a
person. The feeds only the

533
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:30,030
source of truth for itself.
Yeah. A feed can't be the source

534
00:33:30,030 --> 00:33:36,480
of truth for Adam curry. So
there it has this, the GUID to

535
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:43,500
person relationship has to be it
has to be like reside elsewhere.

536
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,060
And I mean, I think just
somebody just needs to build

537
00:33:48,060 --> 00:33:48,870
that service.

538
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,410
Adam Curry: Is there anything
like it that exists already?

539
00:33:55,170 --> 00:33:57,660
Dave Jones: I mean, like, the
closest thing I can think of

540
00:33:57,660 --> 00:33:59,160
would be something like
Wikipedia, you

541
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,940
Adam Curry: know? Yeah, but not
everybody has a wiki page. And

542
00:34:02,940 --> 00:34:05,340
that's right is not easy to get
one you get you used to be able

543
00:34:05,340 --> 00:34:11,850
to set up a setup page up for
yourself. Yeah. So we can if you

544
00:34:11,850 --> 00:34:14,580
build a service, you still need
a validation.

545
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,310
Dave Jones: You know what I
mean? What do you mean by that?

546
00:34:17,310 --> 00:34:18,360
What do you mean validation?

547
00:34:18,870 --> 00:34:21,120
Adam Curry: Okay, I'm Adam
curry. How do we validate that?

548
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:21,930
I'm Adam curry.

549
00:34:24,330 --> 00:34:28,230
Dave Jones: Yes. I'm not sure
that we even need a validation

550
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:28,650
for that.

551
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:32,280
Adam Curry: Okay. Well, go look
at go look at Twitter. And look

552
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,430
how many Adam curry fake
accounts there are. And tell me

553
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:38,100
we don't need a validation for
it. No,

554
00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:39,450
Dave Jones: no, no, what I'm
saying is we don't have

555
00:34:39,450 --> 00:34:43,980
validation for it. You can't
nobody. There's no validation

556
00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:50,640
for anything in RSS, right. And
so if we, if we, if you say you

557
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,190
know if you say you're Adam
curry and you have your profile

558
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:54,780
picture and your link

559
00:34:58,350 --> 00:34:59,970
Adam Curry: by the way, I could
see this and go ahead. Well

560
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,560
doesn't make sense. Okay. So if
I have a podcast, and I'm Adam

561
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,850
curry part of that podcast, why
can't I put something into that

562
00:35:08,850 --> 00:35:11,940
feed, which by definition is
going to so the feed is the

563
00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:16,680
source of truth. And I put into
that feed. This is the guy who

564
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:26,820
you hear in this podcast. You
know what I mean? No, no, no,

565
00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:31,770
don't think of following. Okay,
so a podcast has people working

566
00:35:31,770 --> 00:35:34,890
on this podcast. This? Well,
let's take this podcast,

567
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,330
podcasting. 2.0. And in this
podcast, I put two person GUID,

568
00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:44,220
Dave Jones and Adam curry. Okay,
we are automatically associated

569
00:35:44,220 --> 00:35:47,520
with this podcast. And there's
no one who can dispute that

570
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,760
because you're listening to it.
This is this is our podcast,

571
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,170
this is our feed. This is our
source of truth. So in in that

572
00:35:55,170 --> 00:35:59,520
feed, why don't we have as a
part of the channel item, two

573
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,900
person goods. And it's Adam and
Dave. And then and then that can

574
00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:07,320
be either a remote item or can
be looked up whatever it is. But

575
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,170
that's, that's our we just, you
know, it can be whatever,

576
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,260
whatever number it is, doesn't
matter. But the source of truth.

577
00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:17,670
To me, this, our podcast feed is
more than a source of truth than

578
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:19,200
anything else for who's me.

579
00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:23,070
Dave Jones: You know what I
mean? So your, your say, so let

580
00:36:23,070 --> 00:36:25,260
me, let me repeat this back to
you and make sure I understand.

581
00:36:25,290 --> 00:36:30,390
So you're saying that, since you
own the podcast, you can define

582
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:33,630
yourself, and then everybody
else respects that because they

583
00:36:33,630 --> 00:36:37,800
know that you're the feed owner?
Yeah. Yes. And so then if you

584
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,340
show up somewhere else, with
that same as a person tag with

585
00:36:41,340 --> 00:36:45,900
that same good, it's like, well,
yeah, that's that's legit.

586
00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:48,870
Adam Curry: Person sounds like
this. That's obviously you're

587
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:54,390
40. Okay. Yes. That idea?

588
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,790
Dave Jones: Human validation
through natural means. Yeah.

589
00:37:01,710 --> 00:37:03,210
Yeah. Well, okay. So,

590
00:37:03,810 --> 00:37:06,720
Adam Curry: when we look, I have
my banking details, basically,

591
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:11,310
in my feed. Here's my wallet.
Send me money. Yeah, that's,

592
00:37:11,730 --> 00:37:16,290
that's pretty important. So
isn't it just as valid as my end

593
00:37:16,290 --> 00:37:19,860
is lots of stuff you can
validate against? Hey, I just

594
00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:22,890
sent you a payment. Yes, I got
it. What was it? 33 sites? Okay,

595
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:23,400
check.

596
00:37:24,510 --> 00:37:27,720
Dave Jones: Verified. Okay.
Okay. So here's, here's a good

597
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:30,810
question. What is the problem
we're trying to solve?

598
00:37:31,740 --> 00:37:34,980
Adam Curry: I think the only
problem? Okay, what are we

599
00:37:34,980 --> 00:37:40,410
trying to solve? I don't know. I
forgot. I think I think the

600
00:37:40,410 --> 00:37:43,080
problem was okay, so chances are
the couple of things going on

601
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:49,110
here. There's, there's the idea
of a publisher channel that

602
00:37:49,110 --> 00:37:51,420
people have been talking about.
It's like, okay, I'm a

603
00:37:51,420 --> 00:37:56,370
publisher. And I have a number
of podcasts under my channel. I

604
00:37:56,370 --> 00:37:59,490
don't really know why I need
that. But people tell me I do.

605
00:37:59,490 --> 00:38:04,500
So maybe I can certainly see how
it works for music. How an

606
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:10,710
artist wants to have a a feed or
a channel or a channel, I guess

607
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:15,390
with remote items. Being your
albums, stuff, you've worked on

608
00:38:15,390 --> 00:38:18,720
things, other people stuff,
you're a part of, kind of that

609
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:22,920
web interlocking interlinking
thing we've been talking about.

610
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:28,260
Does that make sense? Yeah. So
So I think, I don't know. I

611
00:38:28,260 --> 00:38:31,950
don't really know if there's a
problem. I think it's an

612
00:38:31,950 --> 00:38:35,820
enhancement that we want to add
to make it easier for people to

613
00:38:35,820 --> 00:38:36,870
group stuff.

614
00:38:38,370 --> 00:38:44,310
Dave Jones: If it feels like it
feels like here's, let's let's

615
00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:48,330
keep it let's keep it with
persons for now. So that we can

616
00:38:48,450 --> 00:38:51,900
because that seems more we
already have a tag for that. And

617
00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:58,140
it seems more easy Lasorda
easier to get grasp. The it

618
00:38:58,140 --> 00:39:02,430
seems like what the apps are
wanting to do. The problem

619
00:39:02,430 --> 00:39:06,990
that's trying to be solved here
is something along the lines of

620
00:39:08,010 --> 00:39:12,780
show me all of the podcasts
where Adam curry has appeared.

621
00:39:14,010 --> 00:39:15,900
Adam Curry: Yes, that's one
thing. Yes.

622
00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:21,150
Dave Jones: So then, in that
sort of that solves your music

623
00:39:21,150 --> 00:39:25,080
artists issue as well. Because
then you can just say show me

624
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:30,570
all the podcasts where Ainsley
Costello Yes. Is the you know,

625
00:39:30,750 --> 00:39:31,320
roast

626
00:39:31,350 --> 00:39:33,720
Adam Curry: right but now it's
kind of freeform it can be Adam

627
00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:37,590
curry can be a curry Adam Clark
curry. You know, anyone could

628
00:39:37,590 --> 00:39:40,860
enter that and if so, to have a
unique identifier for that would

629
00:39:40,860 --> 00:39:42,630
be desirable.

630
00:39:43,590 --> 00:39:46,230
Dave Jones: Yeah, so yeah,
that's right, Steven. So I think

631
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:49,110
it is to find all the shows that
same person. Yeah. I'm thinking

632
00:39:49,110 --> 00:39:56,490
that if you know if that's the
case, you just need you need a

633
00:39:56,490 --> 00:40:02,280
static identifier that just
stretches So, you know, the you,

634
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:08,160
Adam curry is defined on the
person tag in this show with Gu

635
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:15,420
ID 12345678. And then on the
mere mortals podcast chyron

636
00:40:15,420 --> 00:40:19,260
inserts a person tag for his
episode interview with you. And

637
00:40:19,260 --> 00:40:27,270
it's also good 12345678. And we
just know, across podcasting

638
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:30,960
that anytime we see the GUID
12345678 That's Adam curry.

639
00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:34,440
Yeah. So there's got to be.
That's why. That's why I said

640
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,080
earlier, I think it just feels
like somebody needs to just

641
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,380
build that service. Somebody
needs to build a service that

642
00:40:40,380 --> 00:40:48,270
says, where you can just you
could just go, like, read put in

643
00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:51,870
time, I can just envision a
simplistic thing where you just

644
00:40:51,870 --> 00:40:56,670
say, okay, Adam, Adam curry,
here's my, here's my avatar,

645
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,980
here's a link to my bio, click,
it gives you back a Gu ID. And

646
00:41:01,980 --> 00:41:04,770
then that becomes your first
step, because you stick that in

647
00:41:04,770 --> 00:41:08,820
your person tag. And now you're
also registered in this like

648
00:41:08,850 --> 00:41:12,720
database. Like there's this
centralized database that's open

649
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:14,670
source that everybody has access
to,

650
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:17,610
Adam Curry: which we can later
identify? Yes.

651
00:41:19,290 --> 00:41:21,600
Dave Jones: Like, you know, it's
just like, it just, it doesn't

652
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,750
seem to have it, I can see this
sort of central place that

653
00:41:24,750 --> 00:41:29,640
people go to, for create these
identities. I mean, hell, it can

654
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,290
even give you like a, you know,
PGP key or a nostril key or

655
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,570
whatever it wasn't,

656
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,970
Adam Curry: I wasn't going to
try it on the N word, but

657
00:41:40,170 --> 00:41:42,270
Dave Jones: but it's just like
he could generate those things

658
00:41:42,270 --> 00:41:43,470
for me, right? Well,

659
00:41:43,470 --> 00:41:46,500
Adam Curry: how about this? This
is I'm just going off the wall

660
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:51,300
here. Isn't that what a DNS
domain name is?

661
00:41:54,030 --> 00:41:58,260
Dave Jones: Yeah. What? A unique
identifier? You me. Yeah.

662
00:41:59,010 --> 00:42:03,450
Adam Curry: My identifier is
curry.com. And here's here's a

663
00:42:03,450 --> 00:42:07,380
thing in my TX T field. Record.

664
00:42:08,220 --> 00:42:11,310
Dave Jones: Oh, you mean for
vote for proof of a possible?

665
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:15,420
Adam Curry: Too much like too
much. I took it too far. Well,

666
00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:19,740
Dave Jones: see, this is like
the Nippo. Five and all this

667
00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:20,820
good. Like, yeah,

668
00:42:20,820 --> 00:42:23,370
Adam Curry: I'm not I'm not I'm
not that interested in that in

669
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,550
the validation part is less
interesting than just having it.

670
00:42:27,450 --> 00:42:27,900
You see, I

671
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:30,090
Dave Jones: think, yeah, I
agree. That's, that's where I'm

672
00:42:30,090 --> 00:42:35,040
at. I'm just not sure you have
to be validated. Like, it's

673
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,980
because you're valid. Like you
said, the validation is the fact

674
00:42:37,980 --> 00:42:42,660
that that's in the field, put
your feet that you own, right.

675
00:42:42,930 --> 00:42:47,550
And so like if Bill Maher has an
identity, a Gu ID of eight, six,

676
00:42:47,550 --> 00:42:53,550
you know, ACM 654321. In his
feed, it's like, well, that's

677
00:42:53,550 --> 00:42:58,230
him. That's his news feed.
Right, right. And then everybody

678
00:42:58,230 --> 00:43:02,580
else that uses that they're
referencing him like you have

679
00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:06,180
this random Bill Maher that has
some crazy good that no, but

680
00:43:06,180 --> 00:43:10,200
that doesn't exist anywhere else
except this one instance. You

681
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,970
can ignore that because that's
bogus. Like it just it feels

682
00:43:14,970 --> 00:43:19,260
like it's easy to ignore the
fake ones because there's going

683
00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:22,860
to be so many instances of the
right one being used.

684
00:43:23,220 --> 00:43:26,640
Adam Curry: And right now, we're
only talking about a person good

685
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,890
as it relates to people who are
creators. Because if you're a

686
00:43:31,890 --> 00:43:35,400
guest and you don't have a
podcast, then you don't have a

687
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:41,970
source of truth. You're
basically not real real person,

688
00:43:42,450 --> 00:43:43,860
Dave Jones: you know what I
mean? But you're basically

689
00:43:43,860 --> 00:43:45,960
you're basically Neil deGrasse
Tyson

690
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:48,480
Adam Curry: I think we should
keep it does I like this I'd

691
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,720
like this to me is let's keep it
simple because I can already see

692
00:43:52,050 --> 00:43:55,800
the 5000 posts thread on this
which I'm not that interested

693
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:56,100
in.

694
00:43:57,690 --> 00:43:59,520
Dave Jones: With private with
private mentions. Yes.

695
00:43:59,580 --> 00:44:01,830
Adam Curry: Yeah. But just you
know, like well, we have this

696
00:44:01,830 --> 00:44:03,990
and we have to have that we
could talk about this for a long

697
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:08,820
long time. But I liked the idea
of just having a in your feed.

698
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:16,710
I'm Adam curry and what is the
actual What is the need to take

699
00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:23,310
a look what is the what are the
fields what are the tags that we

700
00:44:23,310 --> 00:44:24,180
have right now?

701
00:44:25,110 --> 00:44:25,980
Dave Jones: In the namespace

702
00:44:28,590 --> 00:44:33,210
Adam Curry: now Yeah, well now
just in RSS by itself for the in

703
00:44:33,210 --> 00:44:35,280
the feed so in the feed we have

704
00:44:35,790 --> 00:44:37,740
Dave Jones: the like author and
stuff Yeah. What

705
00:44:37,740 --> 00:44:41,880
Adam Curry: is the what is the
actual webmaster webmaster? Oh,

706
00:44:42,090 --> 00:44:42,810
Dave Jones: that's an old
school.

707
00:44:43,350 --> 00:44:47,910
Adam Curry: It's very old
school. Says Managing Editor

708
00:44:47,940 --> 00:44:50,370
Wow, there's all this what kind
of bullcrap is all this?

709
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:54,690
Dave Jones: Managing Editor
forget about Yeah, we should

710
00:44:54,690 --> 00:44:57,480
just because Dave wonder wanted
it to be, you know, one of the

711
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,490
New York Times New York. Yes.

712
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,660
Adam Curry: So we should we
should add a tag for this.

713
00:45:05,580 --> 00:45:07,590
Dave Jones: No? Yeah. Yeah, that

714
00:45:07,620 --> 00:45:10,710
Adam Curry: person person. Good.
So anyway, so right now we have

715
00:45:11,070 --> 00:45:16,080
podcast person, right? And maybe
we just add a type equals in

716
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,920
this case, how about that? So we
don't have to go too crazy but

717
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:27,300
podcast person. And and here we
have URL image and then group

718
00:45:27,300 --> 00:45:32,310
role but that's part of the text
harmony taxonomy. And then we

719
00:45:32,310 --> 00:45:33,990
just need a GUID equals.

720
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,900
Dave Jones: Is that simple?
Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at sort

721
00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:42,840
of the conversation in the chat.
And there's, there's a lot of

722
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,880
people talking about with finger
and that kind of thing. That's

723
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,990
an interesting idea. Because you
could, if you wanted to bring in

724
00:45:48,990 --> 00:45:56,430
a validation piece, what you
could do is something like, what

725
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,720
you could reference like your
activity pub account. Because,

726
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,700
you know, like, you could go and
say, like your actor, your actor

727
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:12,000
ID URL. You can say, this is me.
This is me, this is my Gu ID, my

728
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,310
Gu ID is, you know, we're saying
we're using the term GUID. And

729
00:46:17,310 --> 00:46:20,460
we're thinking about these long
strings of numbers separated by

730
00:46:20,460 --> 00:46:23,370
dashes. But it doesn't
necessarily have to be that I

731
00:46:23,370 --> 00:46:27,450
mean, in activity pub, your
identity is not a Gu ID it is a

732
00:46:27,450 --> 00:46:32,370
URL. Right? Right. Right. And so
if, if you have, if those

733
00:46:32,370 --> 00:46:40,110
identities were URLs, that's
fine, then you could have, you

734
00:46:40,110 --> 00:46:43,800
could also have the ability to
then sign with your, with your

735
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,410
public key, I mean, with your
private key, and they could be

736
00:46:46,410 --> 00:46:49,860
validated with the public key.
So it feels like other people

737
00:46:49,860 --> 00:46:56,520
could say, Okay, you put your
actor ID in there, your actor

738
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,850
URL, it's gonna have your public
key in it, and you can do

739
00:46:59,850 --> 00:47:04,980
validation that and then the,
these, in these end these, these

740
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,450
apps, if they choose to, can
also validate you if they want

741
00:47:09,450 --> 00:47:10,740
to go that extra step. How

742
00:47:10,740 --> 00:47:12,570
Adam Curry: do we get the
podcast standards group to

743
00:47:12,570 --> 00:47:13,620
accept this?

744
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:24,360
Dave Jones: Begging we beg we
beg it is it? I think, I mean,

745
00:47:24,690 --> 00:47:26,580
Adam Curry: you know, what's a
great what? A great unique

746
00:47:26,580 --> 00:47:33,660
identifier, an email address.
Let's put that that's exactly

747
00:47:33,660 --> 00:47:36,750
what it was. That was that was
the identifier. And we had to

748
00:47:36,750 --> 00:47:40,020
take it out. Because a cast was
spamming everybody. Good work,

749
00:47:40,020 --> 00:47:41,460
everybody. Good work.

750
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:44,940
Dave Jones: Yep. And you know,
who, and people were bringing up

751
00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:47,790
pod chaser being this, they cast
bought them to

752
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,570
Adam Curry: bastards? That was
literally the perfect

753
00:47:51,570 --> 00:47:55,710
identifier. Because you had
email someone you can, you know,

754
00:47:55,740 --> 00:47:59,970
it's like it was perfect. No, we
had to get rid of that. I think

755
00:48:00,060 --> 00:48:01,800
I think we just force it to go
back.

756
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:06,930
Dave Jones: Now, and
everything's just email

757
00:48:06,930 --> 00:48:08,460
addresses, again, all the way
down.

758
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,320
Adam Curry: It's perfect. And
we're all the way back to the

759
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,830
podcast cars, right? We're all
the way back to square one. It

760
00:48:16,830 --> 00:48:19,230
was so perfect. It's exactly
what you want. How do you

761
00:48:19,230 --> 00:48:22,920
identify someone by the email
address is perfect. And then

762
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,030
we'll get spam.

763
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:30,660
Dave Jones: I think the thing I
think if we, if we can figure

764
00:48:30,660 --> 00:48:35,370
out some way to be able to
reference an activity public

765
00:48:35,370 --> 00:48:38,190
count. I think that's a pretty I
think that's pretty strong.

766
00:48:39,090 --> 00:48:40,860
Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm good with
that. Yeah, that's, that's

767
00:48:40,860 --> 00:48:43,290
pretty cool. Because you can
take that with you from server

768
00:48:43,290 --> 00:48:44,010
to server.

769
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:49,020
Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. And then
like, I'm actually getting

770
00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:50,100
pretty high on that.

771
00:48:51,690 --> 00:48:53,790
Adam Curry: Oh, hold on a
second. Here we go. Ladies and

772
00:48:53,790 --> 00:48:59,160
gentlemen. All right. How are
you feeling now? Is that when

773
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:00,510
finger making you feel good?

774
00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:07,560
Dave Jones: You just cruised
into some hot namespace talk

775
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,540
without playing the jingle or
you get a yellow card.

776
00:49:12,510 --> 00:49:13,710
Adam Curry: Some so sorry.

777
00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:17,640
Dave Jones: I think that would
work.

778
00:49:17,970 --> 00:49:19,860
Adam Curry: I'm all Yeah. Okay.
I'm good with that.

779
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:25,170
Dave Jones: open discussion for
people to do give ideas. Yeah.

780
00:49:25,470 --> 00:49:29,370
Yes. Fire away. Fire away. Well,
there will be plenty.

781
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:33,900
Adam Curry: Yeah, and from that,
I think flows. Everything else

782
00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:39,720
can kind of flow. But it really
comes down to and it's it's

783
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:46,320
wonderful watching Dolby das and
Barry. How they put things

784
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,630
together for the artists for
music podcasts. Because they're

785
00:49:51,630 --> 00:49:53,640
making it they're making
assumptions to hear they're just

786
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:56,490
they're just doing stuff and I
really love looking I haven't

787
00:49:56,490 --> 00:50:02,400
looked at pod home.fm But I want
to go through both the the

788
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,210
podcasts, path and the music
path. But there's a lot of

789
00:50:06,210 --> 00:50:08,760
interesting stuff happening this
year if you've been following

790
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,700
this is our C code. Discussion.

791
00:50:13,559 --> 00:50:16,049
Dave Jones: I 's or I don't
know, I don't know, this is news

792
00:50:16,049 --> 00:50:16,799
to me. Well,

793
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,710
Adam Curry: believe it or not,
there's a GUID for recordings.

794
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,720
It's the internet is RC
international standard recording

795
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:29,430
code, which enables an ISP like
an ISP completely, which enables

796
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:32,040
sound recordings and music
videos to be uniquely and

797
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:36,840
permanently identified is RC
helps to avoid ambiguity among

798
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,660
recordings and simplifies the
management of rights when

799
00:50:39,660 --> 00:50:42,870
recordings are used across
different formats. So this is an

800
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:50,790
open an open database, I believe
it has an API, and anybody can

801
00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:54,390
submit their recording, I
believe I have not done any of

802
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:57,660
this work myself. And the idea
is that you can register and so

803
00:50:57,660 --> 00:51:00,750
it's not the song. It's not the
copyright is the actual

804
00:51:00,750 --> 00:51:08,340
recording itself. So if you add
an AI SRC code into your ID,

805
00:51:08,340 --> 00:51:12,240
that will be that will be a
unique identifier. That actually

806
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:17,220
would be a that would be a great
unique identifier. For that's a

807
00:51:17,220 --> 00:51:20,040
good it's a good I don't care
what you call it. It's a good

808
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,140
right there. You don't need
anything else. That's a good

809
00:51:22,170 --> 00:51:25,920
done. That number is a good of
course, if you're at pod fans,

810
00:51:25,950 --> 00:51:27,630
it's already a part of the
interface.

811
00:51:30,180 --> 00:51:31,620
Dave Jones: As of today, yes, as

812
00:51:31,620 --> 00:51:33,960
Adam Curry: of today, it's you
can already go and edit your RSS

813
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,960
feed at pod fans, and make
whatever you want to make.

814
00:51:42,300 --> 00:51:49,950
So I think these are all great
ideas. I don't know if ASRC code

815
00:51:49,950 --> 00:51:55,410
has to be a separate tag or if
it can just be a GUID. The, to

816
00:51:55,410 --> 00:52:00,330
me it feels like that's a good
for identifying a unique

817
00:52:00,330 --> 00:52:01,110
recording.

818
00:52:01,980 --> 00:52:04,710
Dave Jones: So is there a hash
that goes with it? I mean, like

819
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:07,890
does it does it take the
recording and somehow hash it?

820
00:52:09,630 --> 00:52:14,460
Adam Curry: The structure of ice
SRC comprises 12 alphanumeric

821
00:52:14,460 --> 00:52:17,130
characters, which you'll be
presented with the four

822
00:52:17,130 --> 00:52:22,860
character prefix is RC when
displayed in printed form? So I

823
00:52:22,860 --> 00:52:29,940
think they you you register and
it sends you back a code

824
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,960
Dave Jones: see the code I don't
know what that code really is. I

825
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:34,140
was

826
00:52:34,140 --> 00:52:39,270
Adam Curry: like is RCA dash six
Q seven dash two Oh dash oh four

827
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:44,340
seven is okay i SRC code
identifier, the prefix code five

828
00:52:44,340 --> 00:52:48,480
character alphanumeric code
allocated by the I SRC agency.

829
00:52:50,220 --> 00:52:53,310
And then you get the year of
reference. That's the last two

830
00:52:53,310 --> 00:52:56,700
digits of the year, followed by
the five digit unique code

831
00:52:56,730 --> 00:52:58,800
assigned by the registrant.

832
00:52:59,460 --> 00:53:02,760
Dave Jones: Brother this is like
this is like how you figured out

833
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,860
if your tires are old. You read
the code and you

834
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,300
Adam Curry: change toys and 12
year my beer was born on

835
00:53:12,300 --> 00:53:21,120
November 1. There you go. Right.
Okay. Well, it's, it's something

836
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,140
that Julie Costello brought up
and Julie Costello is really

837
00:53:25,140 --> 00:53:27,600
interesting. She'll send me an
email said, hey, you know, this

838
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,420
might be off the wall. But we
had a question about an artist

839
00:53:30,420 --> 00:53:34,320
who wonder if you could put an
is our C code into RSS to track

840
00:53:34,620 --> 00:53:37,860
a song has been uploaded. And I
go that's interesting. And then

841
00:53:37,860 --> 00:53:41,550
I find out that she's talked to
Sir Spencer and Abel Kirby.

842
00:53:41,580 --> 00:53:45,240
She's talked to everybody about
she's building consensus in her

843
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:48,450
own little back channel, which
is funny by itself. Yes, you're

844
00:53:48,450 --> 00:53:50,670
getting back channel now. Oh,
yeah. And before you know it,

845
00:53:50,670 --> 00:53:53,460
like Oh, Dobby, Das has already
put it in. Okay, and now it's in

846
00:53:53,460 --> 00:53:58,170
pot fans. It's not really a tag
yet, but okay. So this one's got

847
00:53:58,170 --> 00:54:02,220
it in his TLV. So there there is
prior art already, but it's

848
00:54:02,220 --> 00:54:05,310
something that we need to look
at. And I would suggest, if

849
00:54:05,310 --> 00:54:10,590
somebody wants that as a tag,
then put it in the GitHub but

850
00:54:10,590 --> 00:54:14,430
let's let's do these let's put
let's put proposals in if you

851
00:54:14,430 --> 00:54:16,920
got something that you liked,
that's working make it a

852
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:23,940
proposal. Or Or yeah, what is it
discussion so it can become so

853
00:54:23,940 --> 00:54:27,930
it can become a what's the next
What's up from proposal?

854
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:41,850
Dave Jones: Attaboy good job as
Dan has been very neglectful,

855
00:54:42,090 --> 00:54:48,030
kind of purposely about the
namespace repository because

856
00:54:48,420 --> 00:54:52,560
like, you know, we're not that
far removed from from from the

857
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:58,980
last phase and and trying to get
some I'm trying to get some some

858
00:54:58,980 --> 00:55:03,570
code written do Yeah. And as to
Matt, I can't have split

859
00:55:03,570 --> 00:55:07,590
attention in a million places.
So the, at some, at some point,

860
00:55:07,590 --> 00:55:10,230
I'm going to finish, I'm gonna
get this code to a good point.

861
00:55:10,230 --> 00:55:13,620
And then just like, flip back,
probably towards the end of this

862
00:55:13,620 --> 00:55:17,400
month, just flip back to like,
full time for a couple of weeks

863
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:21,210
namespace stuff to get caught up
on and get things cleaned up on

864
00:55:21,210 --> 00:55:25,830
that. So yeah, proposals for
sure. And if there's no post

865
00:55:25,830 --> 00:55:29,310
commentary proposed, yeah. So I
was looking for, yes, there's no

866
00:55:29,310 --> 00:55:32,820
commentary from me Don't don't
think it's been, you know, it's

867
00:55:33,060 --> 00:55:36,360
dad or something. It's just that
we'll we'll get there in a

868
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:37,320
little while ago,

869
00:55:37,350 --> 00:55:39,810
Adam Curry: I heard I heard, I
was doing the show prep today,

870
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:45,450
listening to podcast, weekly
review, pod, Newsweek, Newsweek,

871
00:55:45,810 --> 00:55:51,390
and an hour. And James Cridland
said, we should probably remove

872
00:55:51,390 --> 00:55:54,840
some tags from the namespace
that are just not being used.

873
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:58,410
I'm kind of against that. I
think if we've, if we've

874
00:55:58,410 --> 00:56:00,780
approved something for the
namespace, even if it's not

875
00:56:00,780 --> 00:56:05,490
used, it should just be there.
Because there's stuff that that

876
00:56:05,490 --> 00:56:08,640
I've seen in namespaces that was
not used, for instance, to the

877
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,360
media, RSS, for example. Now, it
didn't go anywhere. But man, it

878
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,090
got a lot of attention. Because,
you know, it's like, oh, there's

879
00:56:15,090 --> 00:56:17,550
a lot of good stuff in here.
That even though no one's really

880
00:56:17,550 --> 00:56:20,610
using it could be used for
something else. I feel like,

881
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:25,200
once we've approved something to
go into the namespace, it may be

882
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,290
a next generation that says, Oh,
look at this, they because it

883
00:56:28,290 --> 00:56:32,580
also shows an idea. Even if it's
not picked up. Now, sometimes

884
00:56:32,580 --> 00:56:35,130
things get picked up, like pod
roll, I think is an excellent

885
00:56:35,130 --> 00:56:39,300
example. Actually. You know, it
lingered for a year at least.

886
00:56:39,300 --> 00:56:42,810
And then you know, all of a
sudden, it gets picked up. And

887
00:56:42,810 --> 00:56:45,420
then it gets implemented. So I'm
not I don't think we should be

888
00:56:45,420 --> 00:56:47,580
cleaning stuff up or removing
it.

889
00:56:48,450 --> 00:56:51,660
Dave Jones: 1,000% No, I agree
with

890
00:56:51,660 --> 00:56:56,760
Adam Curry: you. Yeah. It's like
no, just even if I agree, 1,000%

891
00:56:56,910 --> 00:57:00,840
Dave Jones: No, I don't think
anything should be to come. He

892
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,780
can just if it's gonna die,
it'll just die. I mean, it

893
00:57:03,780 --> 00:57:09,360
doesn't have to be it. I mean,
look at activity pub. It took 10

894
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,210
years for anybody to do much of
anything with that spec.

895
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:14,370
Adam Curry: That's right. It was
good. NEW SOCIAL wasn't it

896
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,040
wasn't that's what it was
initially. Yeah.

897
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,960
Dave Jones: And then and then
Mastodon picked it up and ran

898
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:27,210
with ran with it. And now it's a
huge deal. I mean, it Live it

899
00:57:27,210 --> 00:57:30,720
really did languish for many,
many years before anybody do

900
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,920
anything with it. So like, like
alternative closure, very little

901
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:41,700
used hardly at all. But the idea
is so solid and so sound that

902
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,110
one of these days, I host may
see it and be like, You know

903
00:57:46,110 --> 00:57:49,830
what? That is? We need to do
this because we have a specific

904
00:57:49,830 --> 00:57:52,200
use case. Yes, pod fans in
depth.

905
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:56,250
Adam Curry: We have a use case
with POD fans. We need to start

906
00:57:56,250 --> 00:57:58,440
doing that right away. Yeah,

907
00:57:58,890 --> 00:58:03,090
Dave Jones: like you might be
the right. The right use meats

908
00:58:03,090 --> 00:58:04,050
the right time.

909
00:58:04,110 --> 00:58:07,050
Adam Curry: That exactly it just
is just the timing of stuff.

910
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:08,400
Absolutely. That's the way

911
00:58:09,870 --> 00:58:12,780
Dave Jones: and once you put
something in you cannot take it

912
00:58:12,780 --> 00:58:15,840
back out. Right, you really
can't without break because it

913
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,450
might break some people out
there using it and also now

914
00:58:18,450 --> 00:58:25,530
they're out of spec. I disagree
with that. I also don't think

915
00:58:25,530 --> 00:58:29,670
that I think the podcast Android
project is doing a fine job. I

916
00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:31,530
wish they updated anything
wrong.

917
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,540
Adam Curry: I keep looking at
the GitHub in the end you know,

918
00:58:33,540 --> 00:58:36,930
they I don't I don't see pod
rolling their GitHub. This is

919
00:58:36,930 --> 00:58:38,910
what I don't understand. I

920
00:58:38,910 --> 00:58:43,110
Dave Jones: think their job is
to move at glacial speed. Yes,

921
00:58:43,500 --> 00:58:46,350
our job is to move at the speed
at the speed of you know

922
00:58:46,380 --> 00:58:51,870
scissors atomic broccoli,
broccoli and the bed there their

923
00:58:51,870 --> 00:58:56,940
job is to move very very very
slow and they're doing their job

924
00:58:56,940 --> 00:59:00,720
if I don't if they move fast
things are going to get messed

925
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:00,990
up

926
00:59:01,020 --> 00:59:01,530
Adam Curry: I agree

927
00:59:02,730 --> 00:59:08,910
Dave Jones: that they don't know
that moving fast is a is a is a

928
00:59:08,910 --> 00:59:14,970
liability for a group like that
whereas it's a feature for us so

929
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,940
yeah, not I don't have any
problem with the way they went

930
00:59:17,940 --> 00:59:21,300
the way they went the way they
roll. Yes they didn't good

931
00:59:21,330 --> 00:59:21,810
couple other

932
00:59:21,810 --> 00:59:26,100
Adam Curry: things that came up
and this it's interesting to see

933
00:59:26,100 --> 00:59:32,010
this okay categories is a is a
is a big hot button. And it's

934
00:59:32,010 --> 00:59:35,280
really a hot button for one
person. So Libra because he does

935
00:59:35,310 --> 00:59:40,830
show a music podcast about which
is thrash metal music and he

936
00:59:40,830 --> 00:59:47,040
can't find thrash metal music.
Now, so the idea was, we were

937
00:59:47,070 --> 00:59:50,010
what we discussed last we
touched on the so this is not

938
00:59:50,010 --> 00:59:54,570
the same as medium equals type.
This medium type equals this is

939
00:59:54,690 --> 00:59:57,750
categories and we you and I
discussed in the previous board

940
00:59:57,750 --> 01:00:01,440
meeting and everyone was here.
They all heard it They were

941
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:06,000
sitting on the beanbags. Are you
trying to prove this prove the

942
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,760
proof I prove everyone was here
knows everybody knows it. Yeah,

943
01:00:08,790 --> 01:00:12,510
everyone knows it. That we
talked about freeform

944
01:00:12,510 --> 01:00:13,380
categories.

945
01:00:14,070 --> 01:00:16,710
Dave Jones: We did, yes. Now
this vouch for this. So

946
01:00:16,710 --> 01:00:21,030
Adam Curry: there seems to be
some some, this is where you

947
01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:25,410
have. Okay, so apple won't
accept that. And what that

948
01:00:25,410 --> 01:00:29,160
means? I don't know. I don't
know what that is. Well, it's

949
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:34,470
like, well, Apple categories
don't work that way. So I'm not

950
01:00:34,470 --> 01:00:38,310
quite sure. I don't know. I
don't know what that means. I

951
01:00:38,310 --> 01:00:41,880
just feel pushed back about,
there's people I'm in favor of

952
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,850
it. I'm like, Okay, there's
couple things I'm in favor of

953
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,930
tagging stuff however you want
to tag it. Hashtags have worked

954
01:00:48,930 --> 01:00:53,610
great. Yes, there's hashtag
abuse. And there's you know, and

955
01:00:53,610 --> 01:00:55,830
that's a separate I'll put that
over here for a second because

956
01:00:55,830 --> 01:00:58,680
there's people me Oh, if I see
hashtag abuse, that's usually

957
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,480
something I block. I'm like, I'm
not interested in what you're

958
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:04,800
doing. Because you're doing
you're just spamming but I

959
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:09,510
personally feel hashtag free
form categories are a good idea.

960
01:01:10,170 --> 01:01:14,190
Is that something we need to
codify? What do we need to do to

961
01:01:15,570 --> 01:01:17,100
to get that solidified?

962
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:27,330
Dave Jones: That's see this.
This is the same sort of

963
01:01:27,780 --> 01:01:35,010
discussion as person and
channels and did you introduce

964
01:01:35,010 --> 01:01:36,030
crack open a cold one?

965
01:01:36,060 --> 01:01:38,430
Adam Curry: Yes. Pabst Blue
Ribbon, you better believe that?

966
01:01:41,820 --> 01:01:42,840
PBR baby,

967
01:01:44,100 --> 01:01:50,580
Dave Jones: the so there's a
there's a sense here in which

968
01:01:50,610 --> 01:01:53,940
this is all okay. Um, so I'm
trying to wrap my head around

969
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,980
this, this category of issue.
Because these, this really is

970
01:01:58,980 --> 01:02:05,340
the same sort of thing as a
person identifiers, channel

971
01:02:05,340 --> 01:02:11,310
identifiers. And and then we can
also say, freeform categories.

972
01:02:11,820 --> 01:02:15,750
So there's going to, there's
going to exist in this in this

973
01:02:15,750 --> 01:02:22,260
world that we envision there's
going to exist somewhere a list

974
01:02:22,860 --> 01:02:28,890
of these freeform categories as
people use them. So that's what

975
01:02:28,890 --> 01:02:33,720
happens like on Twitter and
Mastodon, you go to tight you

976
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:37,110
start typing a free freeform
hashtag in it gives you

977
01:02:37,110 --> 01:02:40,980
suggestions of like, this is
what other people have done that

978
01:02:41,010 --> 01:02:44,760
are like what you've typed in,
so then you usually look at it

979
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:49,140
and you're like, Oh, I was about
to type, you know, hashtag a

980
01:02:49,140 --> 01:02:54,780
Olympics 2024 But it's actually
you know, 80 million people are

981
01:02:54,780 --> 01:02:56,100
using a Olympics 20

982
01:02:56,130 --> 01:02:58,800
Adam Curry: Right, which Okay,
so let me read the post that

983
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,010
triggers us because what I am
doing here is I'm just your eyes

984
01:03:02,010 --> 01:03:05,040
and ears on the street. I mean,
the gutter. I mean, the podcast

985
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,890
gutter laying down looking at
the mud that people are slinging

986
01:03:07,890 --> 01:03:09,240
all over the place. You

987
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:11,340
Dave Jones: get it? You're get
you were in a ghillie suit?

988
01:03:11,370 --> 01:03:11,820
Exactly.

989
01:03:13,170 --> 01:03:15,690
Adam Curry: Certainly, we
desperately need a mechanism to

990
01:03:15,690 --> 01:03:19,620
signal music genres, the sooner
the better. Each day more albums

991
01:03:19,620 --> 01:03:23,520
get added that will need to be
modified after we figure it out.

992
01:03:23,850 --> 01:03:26,910
I know only a small percentage
will go back and add genres to

993
01:03:26,910 --> 01:03:29,880
their feeds effectively
orphaning them from futures on

994
01:03:29,910 --> 01:03:34,380
genre searches. I was hoping
that category tag would be on

995
01:03:34,380 --> 01:03:42,630
the way, by the way, a private
post. Dumb and then okay, so and

996
01:03:42,630 --> 01:03:49,650
then here is the discussion.
Quote, Apple will never extend

997
01:03:49,650 --> 01:03:53,580
their categories. Okay, so this
is where this is all backchannel

998
01:03:53,580 --> 01:03:58,710
stuff, this is what I despise.
So much so this wasn't out in

999
01:03:58,710 --> 01:04:03,120
the open, so we really should
just ignore it totally. But I

1000
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:08,280
think I understand where this is
coming from. Because we're we

1001
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:12,750
are running at a very fast speed
with music. stuff is coming in

1002
01:04:12,780 --> 01:04:17,790
and, and as a guy who played
does as a podcast filled with

1003
01:04:17,790 --> 01:04:24,390
music, not necessarily music
cast, that's the next topic. I

1004
01:04:24,390 --> 01:04:27,540
understand, you know, it's like,
okay, people just throwing stuff

1005
01:04:27,540 --> 01:04:30,690
up. And I have to listen to
everything before I can figure

1006
01:04:30,690 --> 01:04:34,470
out what it is. Which for me is
okay. I mean, there's not that

1007
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:37,020
much. I mean, I listen to
everything new that comes out.

1008
01:04:37,380 --> 01:04:44,340
But having having categories
that people can use when they

1009
01:04:44,370 --> 01:04:48,840
when they're uploading either
podcast, and I agree that I

1010
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:52,170
think podcasts there's more
hashtags or categories that can

1011
01:04:52,170 --> 01:04:56,700
be used for podcast
descriptions, and for music. So

1012
01:04:56,700 --> 01:05:00,930
I guess the question is, is this
a tag that we declare reform.

1013
01:05:01,290 --> 01:05:05,520
And then again, you're right
with this our lookup service

1014
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:08,070
that sends back hints. I mean,
I'm not sure what to do here,

1015
01:05:08,070 --> 01:05:08,460
Dave,

1016
01:05:09,570 --> 01:05:13,620
Dave Jones: this is this is this
category of problem is there

1017
01:05:13,620 --> 01:05:17,850
seems to be it, you'd need to
make this work, you'd need a

1018
01:05:17,850 --> 01:05:19,020
lookup service, right?

1019
01:05:19,590 --> 01:05:22,080
Adam Curry: We don't want to be
there for all of these. We don't

1020
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,030
want to be that. Well,

1021
01:05:24,030 --> 01:05:26,820
Dave Jones: I mean, we will
always be all of these things,

1022
01:05:26,820 --> 01:05:36,270
you know. But really, it needs
to be something that is it, it

1023
01:05:36,270 --> 01:05:40,410
needs to be something that's
doable by more people than just

1024
01:05:40,410 --> 01:05:50,790
us. And that, you know, I don't
mind. So, this gets back to sort

1025
01:05:50,790 --> 01:05:53,370
of, okay, we get front, you got
front end, you get back. And so

1026
01:05:54,000 --> 01:06:01,860
the front end of interface to
podcast data. We're working on

1027
01:06:01,860 --> 01:06:05,700
that with these things like
activity pub bridge. And the

1028
01:06:05,700 --> 01:06:12,960
API, you know, the the back end
needs to be federated, I'm using

1029
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:18,060
that term loosely, into
something that is more like

1030
01:06:18,060 --> 01:06:25,020
IPFS. Where this data doesn't
have to reside in the podcast

1031
01:06:25,020 --> 01:06:32,040
index. It will, in will always
reside there. But it's more like

1032
01:06:32,370 --> 01:06:36,000
the podcast index is a
participant in a system where

1033
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:37,680
everybody has this data.

1034
01:06:37,980 --> 01:06:40,770
Adam Curry: Right? So okay, so
you're right. So we, in essence,

1035
01:06:40,770 --> 01:06:43,710
we have to be at first in
parallel, we're running to

1036
01:06:43,710 --> 01:06:46,740
distribute this so everybody can
be the lookup service.

1037
01:06:47,820 --> 01:06:50,010
Dave Jones: Yes. And like I
would love for the lookup

1038
01:06:50,010 --> 01:06:55,020
service to be something like
some sort of DHT distributed key

1039
01:06:55,020 --> 01:06:57,450
value store. Paging expera.

1040
01:06:57,450 --> 01:07:00,570
Adam Curry: Locks, paging,
Spurlock new services needed.

1041
01:07:01,890 --> 01:07:03,780
While five cleaned up.

1042
01:07:06,420 --> 01:07:08,040
Dave Jones: It'll be done by
Fridays, but

1043
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,890
Adam Curry: How about how about
this? I do I do. I do. How about

1044
01:07:16,890 --> 01:07:21,450
this? Can we back it into? Can
we Okay, so we have lookup

1045
01:07:21,450 --> 01:07:23,730
service. There's a couple we
have lookup services that we're

1046
01:07:23,730 --> 01:07:28,440
talking about. Good lookups
services. Category lookup

1047
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,820
services is called a hashtag.
Activity pub actually does this.

1048
01:07:34,290 --> 01:07:40,860
Yeah, if I go and look for a
hashtag, I do hashtag let me see

1049
01:07:40,860 --> 01:07:48,480
Thrash. So I'm doing thrash for
thrash metal, and it's giving me

1050
01:07:48,510 --> 01:07:53,730
some crappy options. But if I
hit thrash is going to show me,

1051
01:07:54,090 --> 01:07:58,380
thrash, thrash, metal thrash or
thrash Thursday, should we not

1052
01:07:58,770 --> 01:08:03,720
Fetta fie this first and back it
into the index or, or make that

1053
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:07,200
a later part of the feticide
index. And I'm saying it's like

1054
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:12,810
if, if this this is I'm seeing
it here. It's on activity pub.

1055
01:08:13,530 --> 01:08:17,040
Right now. I just I did thrash
and it shows me thrash metal

1056
01:08:17,070 --> 01:08:21,960
Thrasher thrash Thursday. These
are categories that I can use, I

1057
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:26,580
can use them bait and has little
graph tells me how many people

1058
01:08:26,580 --> 01:08:30,060
use it in the last graph tells
me how many people use it in the

1059
01:08:30,060 --> 01:08:34,140
last two days. I mean, this is
exciting. So is this something

1060
01:08:34,140 --> 01:08:36,690
that we can then reverse into
the index?

1061
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:39,900
Dave Jones: Do you know I mean,
possibly, yeah, yeah, no, I

1062
01:08:39,900 --> 01:08:41,670
don't know where you're going.
So now we're

1063
01:08:41,670 --> 01:08:43,470
Adam Curry: going now we're
going to directions, we want to

1064
01:08:43,470 --> 01:08:47,010
take the index and put it into
activity pub. And we want to

1065
01:08:47,190 --> 01:08:51,510
take the activity pub existing
categories, ie hashtags, we just

1066
01:08:51,510 --> 01:08:54,780
call it what they are. And we
can reverse engineer those back

1067
01:08:54,780 --> 01:09:00,510
in. Or, in fact, if someone
tags, their song podcasts, or

1068
01:09:00,510 --> 01:09:05,970
audio book, whatever it is, with
a certain type of hashtag, that

1069
01:09:05,970 --> 01:09:09,840
now fortifies into the fediverse
through the bridge, take it to

1070
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:10,530
the bridge

1071
01:09:16,140 --> 01:09:19,050
Dave Jones: is we're getting to
spread out here. This this is a

1072
01:09:19,050 --> 01:09:24,360
Fanta like the problem that
we're running into now is we're

1073
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,990
we're thinking about way too
many things at once. But it's

1074
01:09:27,990 --> 01:09:32,490
all the same thing. It is all
the same thing, but they all

1075
01:09:32,490 --> 01:09:37,680
have different credit different
implementations, you know, so,

1076
01:09:37,950 --> 01:09:42,690
but you like a person a person,
a person identity is one thing.

1077
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,620
A channel identity is another
thing a freeform category data

1078
01:09:47,070 --> 01:09:51,210
list is another thing. They they
all have functionally different

1079
01:09:52,350 --> 01:09:59,970
intents for us given the
distribution mechanisms. So as

1080
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,960
Think? I think we're right. And
I think what we're doing right

1081
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:07,440
now is defining the problem as
defining the domain space, if

1082
01:10:07,440 --> 01:10:11,250
you want to call it that, where
we say, okay, these types of

1083
01:10:11,250 --> 01:10:15,900
categories are going to need
lookups. Yeah, that's an

1084
01:10:15,900 --> 01:10:18,240
important conclusion to come to.

1085
01:10:18,390 --> 01:10:20,880
Adam Curry: Right. And we just,
we just discussed the person

1086
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:26,820
good being a web finger lookup,
that's, that's activity plug in

1087
01:10:26,820 --> 01:10:27,630
that what we did,

1088
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,260
Dave Jones: yeah, but I'm just,
it's like, I'm just a teenager

1089
01:10:31,260 --> 01:10:33,180
at web finger.

1090
01:10:33,690 --> 01:10:36,720
Adam Curry: Believe me, when I
had to go to Reebok and say,

1091
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,830
Hey, you can finger my account
to see what, what my profile is.

1092
01:10:40,830 --> 01:10:45,060
They were like, what? From my
dot plan from my dot plan file?

1093
01:10:45,090 --> 01:10:49,770
Oh, I remember all this. I'm
old. But But what, here's what

1094
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:54,510
overall, here's what I find
exciting. So while we're talking

1095
01:10:54,510 --> 01:10:57,870
about fortifying the index,
there's all this stuff that

1096
01:10:57,870 --> 01:11:01,890
Yeah, we could create an API
endpoint and do all this stuff

1097
01:11:01,890 --> 01:11:05,640
and create good lookups and
create good person looks up and

1098
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:10,800
create category lookups.
Meanwhile, it's all here. And

1099
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,740
you've created that you've
created a rudimentary bridge,

1100
01:11:13,740 --> 01:11:18,540
it's more like a rope bridge,
that you know that one person at

1101
01:11:18,540 --> 01:11:23,550
a time over the bridge. But this
connection, I think, is really

1102
01:11:23,550 --> 01:11:28,530
critical. So activity POV has
critical mass. It just does. It

1103
01:11:28,530 --> 01:11:33,060
does. It has a critical mass is
beautiful, it works. It's almost

1104
01:11:33,060 --> 01:11:37,170
a problem looking for us. In
fact, it's almost like this,

1105
01:11:37,170 --> 01:11:40,680
like noster in a way only is
much further down the road. The

1106
01:11:41,070 --> 01:11:47,850
the the solution has created a
social network. But really the

1107
01:11:47,850 --> 01:11:51,480
problem is this. We have all
these problems that we need them

1108
01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:54,600
for edifying, this, this
centralized service. And all

1109
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:56,910
these beautiful things have been
created here, which is

1110
01:11:57,120 --> 01:12:02,220
outstanding for what we're
looking to solve. Does that make

1111
01:12:02,220 --> 01:12:02,700
sense?

1112
01:12:03,450 --> 01:12:09,300
Dave Jones: Yes. So yes, go
ahead. Yeah. Well, go the nasty,

1113
01:12:09,330 --> 01:12:15,630
nasty Eurasia video of Alex
Gleason's talk. Now he's, he's

1114
01:12:16,410 --> 01:12:23,490
the guy that created so box
activity pub server client. He,

1115
01:12:23,910 --> 01:12:27,360
he gave a talk in Australia,
because he's now funded by some

1116
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:32,520
Noster, you know, thing,
whatever. And so he's all on

1117
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:36,090
that bandwagon. But he does a
good talk to listen to, because

1118
01:12:36,090 --> 01:12:41,940
he talks about, about a lot of
these interrupts. And he, he

1119
01:12:41,940 --> 01:12:46,710
shows a graph on there. And it's
like, you know, the number of

1120
01:12:46,710 --> 01:12:50,760
people that are on these
different services. Twitter is

1121
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:56,010
like, you know, a bazillion
people. Activity pub, you know,

1122
01:12:56,040 --> 01:13:01,980
is is a million, BM millions of
people. And then noster is like,

1123
01:13:02,010 --> 01:13:03,750
one, you know, a couple of
dudes.

1124
01:13:05,370 --> 01:13:07,740
Adam Curry: A couple of dudes in
a Bitcoin. Yeah.

1125
01:13:09,030 --> 01:13:12,210
Dave Jones: And so, like, the
graph that he showed really made

1126
01:13:12,210 --> 01:13:15,030
it clear that you're you're
right, the critical mass of

1127
01:13:15,030 --> 01:13:19,860
activity activity Pub is you
can't overlook that.

1128
01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:23,880
Adam Curry: No, so easily the
ROI. I mean, for five bucks a

1129
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:28,440
month, you deploy your own
Mastodon instance, which, by

1130
01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:31,050
definition is an activity pub
node.

1131
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:36,150
Dave Jones: Yeah, and that,
like, let's jump back to this to

1132
01:13:36,150 --> 01:13:41,640
the AP dot podcast index.org.
That, you know, that is going to

1133
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:46,440
be an open source thing that
anybody can run once. And so

1134
01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:51,810
then we can have lots of people
running nodes in front of

1135
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:59,760
running a P nodes in front of in
front of the index. until such a

1136
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:07,050
time when the index itself can
be distributed. Then those nodes

1137
01:14:07,050 --> 01:14:13,230
become district they become more
like IPFS gateways, right. It's

1138
01:14:13,260 --> 01:14:16,800
so that that is the ultimate
goal. I mean, that's like, you

1139
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:19,410
know, we started off talking
that at the beginning of the

1140
01:14:19,410 --> 01:14:22,980
show, talking about how long
this was going to take years.

1141
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:23,640
It'll

1142
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:25,530
Adam Curry: take a while. Yeah,
I'll take a while. Yeah, that's

1143
01:14:25,530 --> 01:14:29,640
okay. Because yours because we
got music to go with our work.

1144
01:14:32,190 --> 01:14:35,190
It's no problem. I just have
Benny over here, play the piano

1145
01:14:35,190 --> 01:14:43,770
and we'll work on that feta phi
and Vidya 20. Slit Benny 20 will

1146
01:14:43,770 --> 01:14:52,440
give you some weed bag. Me done
back Benny. Taco Well, this is

1147
01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:56,850
good. So I'm excited by this
because this is it's like we

1148
01:14:56,850 --> 01:15:00,210
naturally bumping up against
this problem. You know, Because

1149
01:15:00,210 --> 01:15:03,540
the last thing we want, I know,
I know you, you know me, we've

1150
01:15:03,540 --> 01:15:10,230
been friends for forces now. 13
years for 10. Yeah. Like we

1151
01:15:10,230 --> 01:15:13,230
don't want to, we don't want to
actually do work. We're not

1152
01:15:15,030 --> 01:15:17,970
We're not interested in running
a company or anything like that

1153
01:15:18,030 --> 01:15:21,090
this is all bad. We don't want
that. We just want to make

1154
01:15:21,090 --> 01:15:25,140
things better for the world than
for ourselves, quite honestly.

1155
01:15:26,190 --> 01:15:29,820
And so this is a natural thing
that we're that we're that

1156
01:15:29,820 --> 01:15:33,780
we're, that we're hitting here.
And it's a confluence of

1157
01:15:33,810 --> 01:15:37,620
streams, it really is. The whole
activity pub, which has been in

1158
01:15:37,620 --> 01:15:42,060
our life for a long time is, is
naturally flowing into all of

1159
01:15:42,060 --> 01:15:45,570
these problems, which means
podcasting. 2.0 is also

1160
01:15:45,570 --> 01:15:49,200
maturing, these are very mature
problems to have, we're talking

1161
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:54,360
about recording fingerprints,
and we're talking about licenses

1162
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:58,500
and an identification of
ownership. These are really

1163
01:15:58,500 --> 01:16:02,820
great things to have as
problems, and to be able, and at

1164
01:16:02,820 --> 01:16:06,810
the same time to want to move
that out to something that is

1165
01:16:06,810 --> 01:16:10,410
more distributed than it then
podcasting already is, man,

1166
01:16:10,410 --> 01:16:14,190
that's exciting to me this like,
Yeah, I'm good for another five

1167
01:16:14,190 --> 01:16:16,680
years, whatever it takes this
this is great.

1168
01:16:17,580 --> 01:16:20,100
Dave Jones: Yeah, we found out
this week that we had to file

1169
01:16:20,100 --> 01:16:25,320
some sort of tax thing and what
the hell we were. You were like,

1170
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:27,360
Please tell me your brother in
law could do this. We don't want

1171
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:32,700
to do like, begging my brother
in law to do that. Like, this is

1172
01:16:32,700 --> 01:16:33,750
business crap.

1173
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:37,020
Adam Curry: I love that he built
us right away for 200 bucks. I'm

1174
01:16:37,020 --> 01:16:39,180
like, Thanks, Greg. I'm good,
man. Thank you. You should have

1175
01:16:39,180 --> 01:16:43,050
built 300. Egypt yourself, man.
We were so happy.

1176
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:44,730
Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Yeah.

1177
01:16:46,470 --> 01:16:49,050
Adam Curry: What is this? This
tax you talk of this?

1178
01:16:51,930 --> 01:16:55,560
Dave Jones: Like this? Yeah.
Anything to avoid real you know,

1179
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,560
real business. He crap is good
in my bag.

1180
01:16:58,830 --> 01:17:00,420
Adam Curry: I mean, you know,
cotton gin, we don't have

1181
01:17:00,420 --> 01:17:04,350
payroll, there's no payroll.
There was, what's it called?

1182
01:17:05,250 --> 01:17:08,040
Like, operating? What is it
called? What is that particular

1183
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:13,560
tax called? It's like a
franchise to franchise tax. We

1184
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,530
don't owe anything. We still
have to file you don't have to

1185
01:17:16,530 --> 01:17:17,010
file.

1186
01:17:17,670 --> 01:17:19,980
Dave Jones: Yeah, there's no,
there's no payroll. Nobody gets

1187
01:17:19,980 --> 01:17:21,480
paid. No. You

1188
01:17:21,480 --> 01:17:24,060
Adam Curry: don't need franchise
tax. And this is a million bucks

1189
01:17:24,060 --> 01:17:27,240
a year or something like okay,
well, we still got a file. You

1190
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:28,920
Dave Jones: say you to file and
say, Hey, we don't have any

1191
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:32,430
notes. We get a pain. You got to
pay an accountant $200 To file

1192
01:17:32,430 --> 01:17:35,610
something that says you don't
owe anything is the most

1193
01:17:35,610 --> 01:17:36,540
American thing.

1194
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:40,260
Adam Curry: America. That's
right, baby America taxes.

1195
01:17:42,030 --> 01:17:44,760
Dave Jones: In Alabama, they
call it the business privilege

1196
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:48,690
tax. It's got the same thing.
The privilege of doing business

1197
01:17:48,690 --> 01:17:48,810
in

1198
01:17:48,810 --> 01:17:51,930
Adam Curry: Alabama. Exactly.
Exactly. Well, we're happy to be

1199
01:17:51,930 --> 01:17:58,170
doing business in Texas. Yes.
But yeah, that's exactly. Right.

1200
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:00,360
It's so right. Amen. We

1201
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:03,510
Dave Jones: will solve these
problems. But I liked the way

1202
01:18:03,510 --> 01:18:03,630
it's

1203
01:18:03,630 --> 01:18:06,180
Adam Curry: going. I like this
bridge. The bridge is an

1204
01:18:06,180 --> 01:18:08,970
important piece. It feels good.
It really does. It feels like

1205
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:14,730
Ah, okay, so now we can we
reverse engineer these tags?

1206
01:18:15,780 --> 01:18:19,050
backwards, you know, or is when
we just think about it for a

1207
01:18:19,050 --> 01:18:25,260
second. So in essence, you want
to if you're if you're building

1208
01:18:25,260 --> 01:18:30,180
your RSS feed, so it's going to
be a weird crossover to how this

1209
01:18:30,180 --> 01:18:33,930
works. But if you have your
categories, your lookup should

1210
01:18:33,930 --> 01:18:37,380
almost should be your your most
it should be your local activity

1211
01:18:37,380 --> 01:18:43,500
pub. You know, so Ivan so I
think so, for instance,

1212
01:18:43,500 --> 01:18:46,980
sovereign feeds, which I which I
use, I will be logged in. And

1213
01:18:46,980 --> 01:18:51,480
maybe instead of a my lb login,
which I think it is now I'm

1214
01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:55,140
logged in through my activity
pub, and I know it's not but

1215
01:18:55,140 --> 01:18:57,900
anyway, I'm logged in through my
activity pub. And that

1216
01:18:57,930 --> 01:19:01,650
identifies me, that
automatically goes into my feed

1217
01:19:01,650 --> 01:19:07,770
and then when I'm doing tags for
my podcast, it's doing activity

1218
01:19:07,770 --> 01:19:13,200
pub lookups on those on those
hashtags. And that's what goes

1219
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:15,840
into the feed my source of
truth. Am I saying that right?

1220
01:19:16,590 --> 01:19:16,830
Yeah,

1221
01:19:16,830 --> 01:19:20,490
Dave Jones: can see. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, cuz cuz you, you just need

1222
01:19:20,490 --> 01:19:26,640
a list somewhere and like that.
The list can come. They'll see

1223
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:29,850
the list has to live somewhere.
But it already lives can

1224
01:19:29,850 --> 01:19:32,220
originate somewhere as well.
That's

1225
01:19:32,220 --> 01:19:34,890
Adam Curry: my point. It lives
though. It lives so hashtag

1226
01:19:34,890 --> 01:19:39,270
right. See if I do bull crap. Is
that a hashtag? Let me say there

1227
01:19:39,270 --> 01:19:42,540
is. No one's used it in the past
few days where it's a hashtag.

1228
01:19:43,020 --> 01:19:45,360
Dave Jones: As your graph down
you gotta Yeah, hockey stick

1229
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:46,350
negative hockey stick.

1230
01:19:46,620 --> 01:19:49,290
Adam Curry: Well, bull bull
bullshit bullet bullet with an

1231
01:19:49,290 --> 01:19:55,770
ITT I mean, see all I mean,
there's a huge list. This lookup

1232
01:19:55,770 --> 01:19:56,640
is instant.

1233
01:19:57,780 --> 01:20:01,230
Dave Jones: All right, here we
go. So In the activity pub

1234
01:20:01,230 --> 01:20:06,660
bridge, the podcast and index
activity pub bridge can take on

1235
01:20:06,660 --> 01:20:11,280
the elite, here's the circle of
life here so you you go on your

1236
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:15,420
your post about post an episode,
we can aggregate the hashtags

1237
01:20:15,420 --> 01:20:21,690
that are being used to then push
a list did provide a list you

1238
01:20:21,690 --> 01:20:26,760
pick one then it goes into your
episode as the genre or whatever

1239
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:31,080
we're gonna say this category
whatever category whatever then

1240
01:20:31,410 --> 01:20:35,880
it gets posted as a as an
episode. The index picks it up

1241
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:38,550
and posts it right back to
activity pub posted right back

1242
01:20:38,550 --> 01:20:41,730
to activity pub now it's feeding
back to the system and now it

1243
01:20:41,730 --> 01:20:46,320
goes back into the list and then
becomes re yes, you're one more

1244
01:20:46,350 --> 01:20:46,920
your view of

1245
01:20:47,820 --> 01:20:50,340
Adam Curry: the graph is up the
graph is up and to the right

1246
01:20:54,690 --> 01:20:58,710
yes, thrash metal Yes, exactly.
Exactly. So the bridge feeds

1247
01:20:58,740 --> 01:21:02,220
back into the system. This is
cool.

1248
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:06,660
Dave Jones: And wouldn't that be
the same with activity with

1249
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:10,020
actor as identifiers

1250
01:21:10,020 --> 01:21:12,870
Adam Curry: do exactly same
thing look it up right there.

1251
01:21:13,530 --> 01:21:16,320
Dave Jones: It feeds it feeds
back into the system and then

1252
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:21,450
and then we Trent we can
translate to the bridge we can

1253
01:21:21,450 --> 01:21:26,760
translate the activity the actor
URL as the identifier back into

1254
01:21:27,270 --> 01:21:33,330
the back into the the actor ID
with the with the episode. Yes,

1255
01:21:33,390 --> 01:21:36,360
yes. So now it's attributed to
this person and

1256
01:21:36,390 --> 01:21:39,960
Adam Curry: hit the pod ping how
do we how do we respond to this?

1257
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:46,170
Come on. Come on. Come on. It's
gotta be in there. I don't know

1258
01:21:46,170 --> 01:21:51,480
brain brain. I'm excited by
this. This. I think this is a

1259
01:21:51,570 --> 01:21:54,930
really I hope Alex gates likes
it. Is he is he does he like

1260
01:21:54,930 --> 01:21:57,630
activity pub. Oh, yeah. Sure.

1261
01:21:57,630 --> 01:22:02,340
Dave Jones: He runs his own
server that little. That's,

1262
01:22:02,490 --> 01:22:06,450
that's I've been testing against
his activity pub. So bucks

1263
01:22:06,450 --> 01:22:10,350
instance, per week does validate
because I wanted to validate

1264
01:22:10,350 --> 01:22:14,280
against something that was not
Mastodon so that I can make sure

1265
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:17,490
that we're trying to speak as
generic activitypub as possible.

1266
01:22:17,550 --> 01:22:22,350
Yes. And so I was I was vowed I
was building it to work on

1267
01:22:22,380 --> 01:22:25,290
against his instance. Nice. Is
it then I'm like, then I'll

1268
01:22:25,290 --> 01:22:27,630
bring it over to Mastodon and
see if it works there.

1269
01:22:29,100 --> 01:22:31,530
Adam Curry: Yeah, I think
there's this there's something

1270
01:22:31,530 --> 01:22:34,260
here, Dave, this is this is I
think this is a breakthrough.

1271
01:22:34,260 --> 01:22:36,570
I'm not quite sure why I feel
that way. But there's a

1272
01:22:36,570 --> 01:22:38,790
breakthrough going on here. It

1273
01:22:38,940 --> 01:22:41,070
Dave Jones: it just feels
important. For some reason. I

1274
01:22:41,070 --> 01:22:44,880
think it's because you like you
said I think activity Pub has

1275
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:49,110
critical mass, you know who
spotted this? Very early on? Was

1276
01:22:49,110 --> 01:22:53,130
this sort of like this idea of
integrating podcasting in with

1277
01:22:53,130 --> 01:22:57,120
activity? pub was Benjamin
Bellamy. Yes, because yeah, I

1278
01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:59,580
suppose does that Right?
Exactly.

1279
01:22:59,580 --> 01:23:01,710
Adam Curry: You're so right.
He's probably jumped out and

1280
01:23:01,710 --> 01:23:06,090
sees probably jumping up and
down going. I told you this was

1281
01:23:06,090 --> 01:23:10,920
riots. You stupid Americans. I
knew it already. Socialism.

1282
01:23:11,100 --> 01:23:16,590
Dave Jones: Yes. This is this
is. This is a he spotted it. And

1283
01:23:16,590 --> 01:23:22,290
I didn't see it at the time.
And, and I think I think he's, I

1284
01:23:22,290 --> 01:23:26,130
think you have the right idea.
Absolutely. Because activity

1285
01:23:26,130 --> 01:23:30,300
activity, pub and RSS are sort
of like, you know, two

1286
01:23:30,300 --> 01:23:33,720
Adam Curry: sides of the same
coin. Yeah, they're like, Dan

1287
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:40,320
says 40 posts. Wow. So dynamite.

1288
01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:44,640
Dave Jones: But I do have a do
still have a couple of you have

1289
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:50,940
a couple of issues. In that we
need to figure out that okay.

1290
01:23:51,690 --> 01:23:52,920
Adam Curry: Clearly something.

1291
01:23:56,370 --> 01:24:01,500
Dave Jones: How to handle the
key pairs. So activitypub needs

1292
01:24:02,100 --> 01:24:07,950
assigning keys. And typically
they are per user. So you know,

1293
01:24:07,950 --> 01:24:10,710
you you have a private public
private key pair. Now what

1294
01:24:10,710 --> 01:24:12,840
Adam Curry: do you need these?
What do you need these for? My

1295
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:15,300
help me out? What do you need?
Why do we need keys?

1296
01:24:16,050 --> 01:24:21,420
Dave Jones: So that each each
user account has a public

1297
01:24:21,420 --> 01:24:26,520
private key pair that they use
to sign the requests to other

1298
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:31,020
activity pub servers when doing
transactions. So if I if I go

1299
01:24:31,020 --> 01:24:37,500
and subscribe, excuse me, follow
you on your server, I have to

1300
01:24:37,500 --> 01:24:40,530
sign it with my key pair to
prove that is me actually doing

1301
01:24:40,530 --> 01:24:44,370
it. Right. And so there has
there has to be a signing thing.

1302
01:24:45,690 --> 01:24:49,500
You know, I don't know how to
handle these keys necessarily.

1303
01:24:50,820 --> 01:24:55,110
Should there just be one key for
the whole server that everybody

1304
01:24:55,200 --> 01:25:00,960
uses? When I say everybody I
mean every podcast asked, since

1305
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:04,500
it's really since they're really
all essentially bought accounts

1306
01:25:04,500 --> 01:25:12,060
anyway. Or should it be that
each one, as soon as it's the

1307
01:25:12,060 --> 01:25:16,020
first time it's searched for a
public key pair is created,

1308
01:25:16,290 --> 01:25:20,550
that's creating a key pair is a
is a mathematically is

1309
01:25:20,550 --> 01:25:24,990
mathematically hard. So it's a
little bit of a delay when that

1310
01:25:24,990 --> 01:25:28,710
happens, so I don't know I need
advice on that, too. Can

1311
01:25:28,710 --> 01:25:32,010
Adam Curry: you run that by me
one more time? The key the key

1312
01:25:32,010 --> 01:25:35,250
generation key pair was just run
it by me one more time. Let me

1313
01:25:35,250 --> 01:25:37,020
see if I can grok this. Oh, I
said

1314
01:25:37,740 --> 01:25:42,840
Dave Jones: it. Oh, can you give
me the so the key pair, it's

1315
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:45,720
pretty much just like PGP. You
know, you have a public key and

1316
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:50,040
a private key. The private key,
you're gonna sign your message

1317
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:54,420
to other when you send. So club
brand, you're in the future,

1318
01:25:54,420 --> 01:25:57,240
you'll be you know, you
subscribe a club random Yeah.

1319
01:25:58,110 --> 01:26:02,130
Then, when the club random gets
a new episode, the AP dot

1320
01:26:02,130 --> 01:26:08,160
podcast index.org is going to
send an event to your inbox. Or

1321
01:26:08,190 --> 01:26:11,700
it really to the shared inbox on
your server, right saying,

1322
01:26:11,910 --> 01:26:16,800
saying, Here's a new post,
right? That that message to your

1323
01:26:16,830 --> 01:26:22,170
shared inbox is going to have to
be signed by his by, by his

1324
01:26:22,170 --> 01:26:26,400
accounts public, excuse me,
private key, so that you can

1325
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:30,450
then validate it using the
public key that is present, is

1326
01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:30,570
what

1327
01:26:30,570 --> 01:26:33,210
Adam Curry: you're saying? Actor
proof. So you're saying, Do we

1328
01:26:33,210 --> 01:26:38,520
have the index just has one, one
key that signs everything? Now,

1329
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:42,120
you can't do that? Has to be
individual keys, doesn't it? You

1330
01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:44,880
Dave Jones: could there's no
rule that says you can't. And

1331
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:47,400
that's what I'm wondering is
this, if there should just be

1332
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:51,480
one public private key pair? On
the index that signs everything

1333
01:26:51,480 --> 01:26:55,890
for every one of these podcast
accounts? Does that? Or if they

1334
01:26:55,890 --> 01:26:56,970
should all be separate?

1335
01:26:57,750 --> 01:27:01,560
Adam Curry: Doesn't that come
into the follow? Bit? Isn't that

1336
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:08,280
unique to the follow? Me I don't
know. I'm just guessing.

1337
01:27:08,970 --> 01:27:12,930
Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't know.
I am open to advice from the

1338
01:27:12,930 --> 01:27:13,410
activity.

1339
01:27:13,710 --> 01:27:16,770
Adam Curry: I mean, quite
honestly, it Is it crazy for me

1340
01:27:16,770 --> 01:27:21,810
to think that in the future
podcast apps when you follow

1341
01:27:21,870 --> 01:27:26,910
slash subscribe to a podcast,
that that would actually be an

1342
01:27:26,910 --> 01:27:28,230
activity pub event.

1343
01:27:31,410 --> 01:27:32,490
Dave Jones: Are you talking
about when you actually

1344
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:34,440
subscribe to the feed? Yes.

1345
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:37,830
Adam Curry: Well, no one where
it says very few podcast apps

1346
01:27:38,070 --> 01:27:43,020
when you subscribe to the feed.
Haha, man, I'm my brain is

1347
01:27:43,020 --> 01:27:51,450
hurting right now. Yeah, okay.
So if you take activity pub as

1348
01:27:51,450 --> 01:27:57,660
the subscribe pubs Pub Sub
mechanism, does that not solve a

1349
01:27:57,660 --> 01:28:02,070
lot of back end stuff that
individual apps are doing with

1350
01:28:02,070 --> 01:28:05,970
their own database as their own
user database? Who's following

1351
01:28:05,970 --> 01:28:09,780
what et cetera, et cetera?
Right? Does that not replace

1352
01:28:09,780 --> 01:28:13,080
that in a way? Um, so that in
future actually, you'll

1353
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:16,620
subscribe to a podcast you will
subscribe to your follow up lets

1354
01:28:16,620 --> 01:28:21,330
us follow. You will follow a
podcast be in your app or on the

1355
01:28:21,330 --> 01:28:27,960
mastodon server or wherever you
get your mastodons and, and you

1356
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:31,200
literally you could sign into
every single podcast app with

1357
01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:37,830
your Mastodon slash activity
pub. Key credentials. Bright.

1358
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:43,020
Wow, think about how Trent that
that just obliterated OPML Yeah,

1359
01:28:43,050 --> 01:28:45,780
Dave Jones: pretty much yeah.
Because yeah, because you've

1360
01:28:45,810 --> 01:28:48,000
there's all your stuff right
there will

1361
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:52,380
Adam Curry: be serious. Whoa.
That

1362
01:28:52,380 --> 01:28:54,480
Dave Jones: will conjunct said
all your shows would sink to

1363
01:28:54,480 --> 01:28:55,890
Yeah, you

1364
01:28:55,890 --> 01:28:59,340
Adam Curry: could take your
followers with you, man. It

1365
01:28:59,340 --> 01:29:01,320
brings in cross app comments.

1366
01:29:01,980 --> 01:29:05,190
Dave Jones: Well see that's very
interesting. Obviously cross out

1367
01:29:05,190 --> 01:29:07,560
comments is is is baked

1368
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:10,920
Adam Curry: in Yeah. Because

1369
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:14,460
Dave Jones: that's being you
know, as like I said when you

1370
01:29:14,700 --> 01:29:20,370
when you have a list of posts,
the outbox is the list of posts

1371
01:29:22,020 --> 01:29:27,000
list of episodes and the each
episode is just is also has the

1372
01:29:27,090 --> 01:29:32,250
the social interact tag data in
it. Okay, devil's advocate comes

1373
01:29:32,250 --> 01:29:36,240
along with it devil's advocate,
the devil's advocate. Yeah.

1374
01:29:40,500 --> 01:29:43,530
Adam Curry: What reasons would
podcast apps have to not want to

1375
01:29:43,530 --> 01:29:44,160
do this?

1376
01:29:47,340 --> 01:29:49,410
Dave Jones: You do the double
negative. I'm confused.

1377
01:29:50,460 --> 01:29:54,450
Adam Curry: Okay, so we so we
basically are coming up with a

1378
01:29:54,450 --> 01:29:58,710
system here. Oh, man, you could
almost publish from your podcast

1379
01:29:58,710 --> 01:30:02,640
app. Oh, my brain hurts to like

1380
01:30:04,440 --> 01:30:05,460
Dave Jones: 930.

1381
01:30:07,770 --> 01:30:09,870
Adam Curry: Maybe we're going
too far. Maybe we're going to,

1382
01:30:10,110 --> 01:30:15,360
Dave Jones: we need a better way
to back it up. I see where

1383
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:20,700
you're going, though, and I like
it. It's it's very far down the

1384
01:30:20,700 --> 01:30:24,960
road, though, as I say, but I
see where you're going. Yeah, I

1385
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:27,570
still don't know why follow the
Follow button doesn't do

1386
01:30:27,570 --> 01:30:32,520
anything on Mastodon with trend,
why was it not sending me?

1387
01:30:32,550 --> 01:30:34,380
Adam Curry: Well, that's just
some kind of handshake that's

1388
01:30:34,380 --> 01:30:36,240
not completing that we'll figure
that out.

1389
01:30:38,010 --> 01:30:41,340
Dave Jones: I'm not seeing a
hit. Not seeing the hit on the

1390
01:30:41,370 --> 01:30:48,090
on the on on the AP server. But
and then and then status IDs. So

1391
01:30:48,180 --> 01:30:52,110
the unit statuses like episode
statuses are episodes.

1392
01:30:53,310 --> 01:30:55,260
Adam Curry: Yeah, this is Do you
know what I mean? Yeah, but

1393
01:30:55,260 --> 01:30:58,560
Well, it's it shows up as a post
but an activity problem. Sure.

1394
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:00,120
It's called status. Yeah,

1395
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:01,980
Dave Jones: it's called a post.
It's called us. Yes. Yeah.

1396
01:31:01,980 --> 01:31:03,180
Adam Curry: Just to make it
simple.

1397
01:31:04,620 --> 01:31:09,120
Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Let's
go stat, the insert these every

1398
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:13,770
one of these things has an ID.
And I'm not sure where you would

1399
01:31:13,770 --> 01:31:17,640
think that the Episode Episode
ID within podcast index would

1400
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:20,340
make a perfect status, because
it's just a big lump on number.

1401
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:24,750
But then again, it's tying it to
that to that to the index, which

1402
01:31:24,990 --> 01:31:28,200
doesn't seem right, it seems
like it should be tied to like

1403
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:28,800
the GU ID,

1404
01:31:28,980 --> 01:31:31,980
Adam Curry: maybe maybe if we
just we stick to the publishing

1405
01:31:31,980 --> 01:31:35,370
side first, just to make it
simple. To the publishing side

1406
01:31:35,370 --> 01:31:39,210
is where the biggest problems
are right now. So the publishing

1407
01:31:39,210 --> 01:31:43,590
side, we have what is a GUID?
How do we look up goods? And

1408
01:31:43,590 --> 01:31:47,340
that's it as its publishing.
It's also of course, it's also

1409
01:31:47,430 --> 01:31:51,870
the receive side, but how do we
look up goods? Okay, activity

1410
01:31:51,870 --> 01:31:56,610
Pub has a has a way to do that,
as a way to register goods as a

1411
01:31:56,610 --> 01:32:00,840
way to authenticate goods, which
can be people can be all kinds

1412
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:05,010
of things. How do we do
categories? We have a lookup

1413
01:32:05,010 --> 01:32:10,200
service built right into it,
which requires apps, I think, on

1414
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:16,050
the back end. So perhaps it's
that the apps would have to have

1415
01:32:16,050 --> 01:32:19,800
a way to talk to their own
activity pub. This is that what

1416
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:27,180
we're down to now. hosting
companies creation tools, will

1417
01:32:27,180 --> 01:32:30,870
need access to an activity
problem now,

1418
01:32:31,230 --> 01:32:35,100
Dave Jones: not initially. I
mean, initially, we we can just

1419
01:32:35,220 --> 01:32:40,980
Britt, you know, we can be the
bridge. Okay. It, I think what's

1420
01:32:40,980 --> 01:32:44,520
going to happen is this, this
code, once we get it to a work

1421
01:32:44,580 --> 01:32:49,140
working state where it's doing a
lot of the things that we want

1422
01:32:49,140 --> 01:32:56,100
it to, and it's reliable, then
it's open. And I think at that

1423
01:32:56,100 --> 01:33:01,620
point, there will it'll be easy
for people to look at it, see

1424
01:33:01,620 --> 01:33:05,490
what it's doing. And because one
of the goals that I have with

1425
01:33:05,490 --> 01:33:12,480
this code is in the next phase
of this is add the database,

1426
01:33:12,990 --> 01:33:17,520
clean it up, make it open, hope
I'm hoping by the end, but by

1427
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:21,990
this, the end of this week, this
coming week, the repo will be

1428
01:33:21,990 --> 01:33:25,620
open and everybody can just see
it. At that point, I feel like

1429
01:33:27,630 --> 01:33:30,900
more eyeballs on it will be able
to show we'll be able to sort of

1430
01:33:30,900 --> 01:33:35,970
flesh out some of these things.
And say, here's what these days

1431
01:33:35,970 --> 01:33:37,800
should look like, here's what
this should be, here's what this

1432
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:40,800
should be. We can all just sort
of like, collaborate on this.

1433
01:33:43,020 --> 01:33:49,680
But you know, and remember,
ultimately, what's the goal

1434
01:33:49,680 --> 01:33:52,890
here, like we talked about a
couple episodes ago is the

1435
01:33:52,890 --> 01:33:59,790
podcast. The bridge is going to
make it where you could follow a

1436
01:33:59,790 --> 01:34:05,730
podcast on an activity pub
timeline. And then when you see

1437
01:34:05,820 --> 01:34:10,650
when that post comes through,
you get links to all the

1438
01:34:10,650 --> 01:34:15,090
different apps on it. So you
have you and I have we have the

1439
01:34:15,090 --> 01:34:17,760
links, links to all the
different podcasts. Right

1440
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:19,710
Adam Curry: you just click on
that link click boom, it opens

1441
01:34:19,710 --> 01:34:21,480
up the the appropriate app.

1442
01:34:22,170 --> 01:34:25,710
Dave Jones: Yeah, you're in pot.
You're in pod. You're in your

1443
01:34:25,710 --> 01:34:30,360
Mastodon client. The post comes
through, you just you know, you

1444
01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:35,100
say okay, I'm on pod verse or
I'm on podcasts guru or pod fans

1445
01:34:35,100 --> 01:34:38,940
or whatever and you just tap it
fountain and it kicks you over

1446
01:34:38,940 --> 01:34:42,270
to your to your app like it's
not meant to be a destination is

1447
01:34:42,270 --> 01:34:44,160
meant to be a bridge,

1448
01:34:44,250 --> 01:34:47,250
Adam Curry: a bridge literally.
Just to address Eric PPS COMM

1449
01:34:47,250 --> 01:34:50,340
And he says Who needs RSS at
that point episodes are posted?

1450
01:34:50,340 --> 01:34:54,810
No, because we know that
activity Pub is not not a great

1451
01:34:54,810 --> 01:35:00,480
system for high volume polling
and high volume follows So you

1452
01:35:00,480 --> 01:35:03,060
want to just general want to
just reiterate why that is?

1453
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:07,620
Because of the subscription?
overhead?

1454
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:12,450
Dave Jones: Yes. The way that
activity pub works, you know, is

1455
01:35:12,450 --> 01:35:18,870
it posts? It's a push, it's a
push based system is relying on

1456
01:35:19,890 --> 01:35:22,740
on the server that creates the
content to let you know that the

1457
01:35:22,740 --> 01:35:27,330
content is there. And that
that's, that's okay. That's

1458
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:31,380
actually that's efficient, in
the sense that you don't have to

1459
01:35:31,380 --> 01:35:37,470
poll is inefficient. In that you
can, the receiver can get

1460
01:35:37,470 --> 01:35:42,600
swamped. Yeah. Easily. And this
this is what we see this all the

1461
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:46,140
time with Mastodon servers where
all of a sudden one famous

1462
01:35:46,140 --> 01:35:49,170
person joins and they have 10
million followers, and then

1463
01:35:49,170 --> 01:35:52,800
every now they're getting it in
their server. Could you just

1464
01:35:52,800 --> 01:36:00,390
follow crawl? Yeah, yeah. So I
think that that mean, this is

1465
01:36:00,390 --> 01:36:04,620
just this just bridges RSS
bridges back to what RSS is

1466
01:36:04,620 --> 01:36:08,760
doing natively. We don't want to
make the same mistake that Nasir

1467
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:12,780
made. Yeah, we're exactly
replace RSS, which is x DOM.

1468
01:36:12,810 --> 01:36:15,660
Yeah. So we're not we don't want
to make that mistake. We're this

1469
01:36:15,660 --> 01:36:22,050
is basically a way to bridge RSS
over into activity pub. In a way

1470
01:36:22,050 --> 01:36:25,620
that makes sense. But the source
of truth is and always will

1471
01:36:25,620 --> 01:36:27,600
remain the RSS feed. Yes.

1472
01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:31,830
Adam Curry: I'm just looking at
the podcast index dot social,

1473
01:36:31,830 --> 01:36:36,960
the sidekick Syo is killing it.
Oh, man. If you see how many

1474
01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:42,090
failed there are over 2 million
CI Oh, yeah, that's in one month

1475
01:36:42,090 --> 01:36:45,060
time and failed 2 million, 2
million fails.

1476
01:36:45,450 --> 01:36:48,360
Dave Jones: Sidekick for people
that don't know is the task

1477
01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:52,440
server that runs on with Ruby on
Rails that takes care of sending

1478
01:36:52,440 --> 01:36:56,550
all that into Mastodon in the
mastodon world decide cake

1479
01:36:56,550 --> 01:37:02,370
process is sending all those
outbox rules, excuse me sending

1480
01:37:02,370 --> 01:37:04,380
all those inbox pushes. Yeah,
it's

1481
01:37:04,380 --> 01:37:06,570
Adam Curry: insane out
everywhere. It's insane. It

1482
01:37:06,570 --> 01:37:07,260
really is.

1483
01:37:08,130 --> 01:37:12,390
Dave Jones: If it was more pool,
if it was more pull. To me, it

1484
01:37:12,390 --> 01:37:14,760
would make it would be more like
ours. So it would make a lot

1485
01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:15,510
more sense. Yeah.

1486
01:37:15,870 --> 01:37:16,530
Adam Curry: But it's not.

1487
01:37:17,910 --> 01:37:20,910
Dave Jones: Yeah, this could be
NC we have the benefit of pod

1488
01:37:20,910 --> 01:37:21,330
thing.

1489
01:37:21,480 --> 01:37:22,620
Adam Curry: Yes, exactly.

1490
01:37:22,710 --> 01:37:25,350
Dave Jones: Everything is so
much more efficient, because

1491
01:37:25,500 --> 01:37:29,310
we're not going to, we're not
going to send out you know,

1492
01:37:29,550 --> 01:37:32,430
we're not going to be polling
all over the place. If you get

1493
01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:37,530
if you subscribe to a podcast to
the bridge, you know, you're out

1494
01:37:37,530 --> 01:37:42,090
you're gonna get you're gonna
get one shared inbox paint hit.

1495
01:37:42,210 --> 01:37:42,750
That's it.

1496
01:37:43,980 --> 01:37:46,830
Adam Curry: I think this is this
is a good this is I'm excited by

1497
01:37:46,830 --> 01:37:51,270
this. I mean, I know it's still
kind of fluffy. But I can say

1498
01:37:51,270 --> 01:37:55,140
fluffy. It is fluffy. But I can
see it. I can I can see how it's

1499
01:37:55,140 --> 01:37:58,950
how it's going to work. I can
see that this is the it's just

1500
01:37:58,950 --> 01:38:02,250
sitting there activity Pub is it
just sitting there ready to be

1501
01:38:02,250 --> 01:38:06,900
used for whatever abused, really
abused by us for whatever we

1502
01:38:06,900 --> 01:38:11,940
need it for. And as its as such,
it has such mass that it's I

1503
01:38:11,940 --> 01:38:14,430
think it's really good. Now of
course,

1504
01:38:14,430 --> 01:38:16,650
Dave Jones: he's gonna talk
about discovery to you. This

1505
01:38:16,650 --> 01:38:18,360
really helps discover Yes,

1506
01:38:19,020 --> 01:38:20,820
Adam Curry: of course his block
lists, which will be

1507
01:38:20,820 --> 01:38:25,590
interesting, but that's a whole
nother thing to deal with

1508
01:38:25,590 --> 01:38:27,120
eventually. It's

1509
01:38:27,120 --> 01:38:31,320
Dave Jones: surely we initially
won't be on on any because this

1510
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:34,680
is a new domain that won't. We
won't have a prayer because

1511
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:38,670
podcasts index dot social is on
block list, but podcast

1512
01:38:38,670 --> 01:38:42,120
index.org is nice. So maybe
we'll have a we're on block

1513
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:46,860
lists. Social Yeah, we're on
block lists. Why? Because it's

1514
01:38:46,860 --> 01:38:48,240
affiliated with you. Oh.

1515
01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:55,680
Adam Curry: Really? That guy?
That guy? Really? I'm uh, we're

1516
01:38:55,680 --> 01:38:58,410
on BlockLess because of me. Oh,
that's nice. Yeah,

1517
01:38:58,410 --> 01:39:00,510
Dave Jones: we talked about on
the show of a long time ago. It

1518
01:39:00,510 --> 01:39:04,740
was like, all these stupid
reasons. You know, the reasons

1519
01:39:04,740 --> 01:39:09,270
are hilarious that they give us
all is like a you know, no

1520
01:39:09,270 --> 01:39:11,490
agenda social adjacent or
something.

1521
01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:18,360
Adam Curry: Man. That's amazing.
That's crazy. Shall we thank a

1522
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:21,390
few people, man. We just we went
through a buck 40 There. That's

1523
01:39:21,390 --> 01:39:23,610
pretty good. All right, let me
see what we got coming in Dred

1524
01:39:23,610 --> 01:39:27,780
Scott. It's a lot less than
normal, of course, because this

1525
01:39:27,780 --> 01:39:34,710
is the boardroom after dark.
Dred Scott bread 23456 Missed

1526
01:39:34,710 --> 01:39:38,430
the Go Live as I've been canning
pumpkin butter. Well, we all

1527
01:39:38,430 --> 01:39:44,280
have priorities. We all have
priorities drag. Catch you on

1528
01:39:44,280 --> 01:39:46,770
the flip side when I'm working
on chapters. Please be careful

1529
01:39:46,770 --> 01:39:50,490
where you put your web finger
when dealing with Gui gewiss.

1530
01:39:51,330 --> 01:39:54,720
Sorry, could not resist he says
yes, I got your brother. As

1531
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:58,260
Great. Thank you. Chad f is this
the booster Graham lounge

1532
01:39:58,260 --> 01:40:01,890
Karen's always talking about
Yes. This is the one you got it.

1533
01:40:02,850 --> 01:40:09,840
We got 12345 from primitive one.
Interesting. When you do in in

1534
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:15,150
helipad 12345 is See No Evil
Hear No Evil speak no evil

1535
01:40:15,150 --> 01:40:20,280
monkeys as is the emojis that
pop up as usual happy to be part

1536
01:40:20,280 --> 01:40:25,050
of the revolution we got there
is chyron mere mortals podcast

1537
01:40:25,080 --> 01:40:29,070
1111 I lied. I can actually join
for a bit. I'm let your lead

1538
01:40:29,100 --> 01:40:33,900
we're all met. Yes we are. We
are we are well, yeah. Well let

1539
01:40:35,160 --> 01:40:38,670
me see I just did a boosted
ground ball this afternoon. So

1540
01:40:38,700 --> 01:40:42,300
there's a lot of stuff here is
chyron pre boosting and

1541
01:40:42,300 --> 01:40:45,150
bemoaning fate the one time you
guys change your schedule just

1542
01:40:45,150 --> 01:40:48,480
for me. Right? I have other
obligations. Okay. So he was

1543
01:40:48,480 --> 01:40:51,150
able to listen to a little bit
obviously, I guess he's, he's

1544
01:40:51,150 --> 01:40:53,880
just getting up. You must be
morning there in Australia.

1545
01:40:54,510 --> 01:40:58,800
Think I can't remember. And
those were our those were our

1546
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:01,590
booths that came in during the
live Dave, what do we have in on

1547
01:41:01,590 --> 01:41:05,610
the on the schedule from us
since our last board meeting? We

1548
01:41:05,610 --> 01:41:09,570
Dave Jones: have we got we got
one. Pay Pal for the week, we

1549
01:41:09,570 --> 01:41:13,410
get Oscar marry $200 from the
founding guys, and that deserves

1550
01:41:13,410 --> 01:41:13,590
a

1551
01:41:14,700 --> 01:41:18,420
Adam Curry: stock call off what
is blades? Only him? Paula,

1552
01:41:18,420 --> 01:41:21,540
thank you so much, Oscar Mary.
That's very much appreciated.

1553
01:41:22,170 --> 01:41:27,780
Dave Jones: Yeah. And we'll I
think we discussed his proposal

1554
01:41:27,780 --> 01:41:31,860
and we're well, towards the end
of the month, we'll get back I

1555
01:41:31,860 --> 01:41:35,280
think we can hopefully if we can
get we can get some consensus

1556
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:36,540
and everything around that.

1557
01:41:36,900 --> 01:41:42,090
Adam Curry: Adding a new type to
the the, the value block.

1558
01:41:42,870 --> 01:41:46,200
Dave Jones: Value recipient,
recipient, yes. Okay. So that so

1559
01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:51,480
they can have Lightning
Lightning addresses in the value

1560
01:41:51,480 --> 01:41:54,900
recipient deck? And I really
don't, you know, so many people

1561
01:41:54,900 --> 01:41:57,090
are using Alby. Now, I don't
think it's going to hurt

1562
01:41:57,090 --> 01:42:02,040
anything, because it's gonna
it'll be the apps can just hand

1563
01:42:02,040 --> 01:42:06,090
that lightning address to Alby
and let it resolve that itself,

1564
01:42:06,540 --> 01:42:09,150
Adam Curry: which works fine. I
mean, sovereign feeds does that.

1565
01:42:09,150 --> 01:42:14,370
And so we don't have to resolve
with that'll just be a wallet, a

1566
01:42:14,370 --> 01:42:17,640
wallet provider resolution?
Yeah.

1567
01:42:18,120 --> 01:42:20,400
Dave Jones: Yes, right. Yeah,
no, I don't think you'll have to

1568
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:25,200
resolve all in app that. I don't
think this is a scary change, I

1569
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:27,240
think it's, I think it's going
to be fine. It's going to make

1570
01:42:27,750 --> 01:42:30,300
it will make things easier for
them. Because if they have to

1571
01:42:30,300 --> 01:42:35,040
change infrastructure, if they
have to switch their nodes, lb

1572
01:42:35,070 --> 01:42:39,150
and fountain hosts so many
nodes, is difficult for them to

1573
01:42:39,150 --> 01:42:41,520
track down all these podcasts
that are still going to be using

1574
01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:45,630
the old pub key. So and it
doesn't, it doesn't prohibit

1575
01:42:45,660 --> 01:42:48,060
anybody, you can use pub key. If
you want, you can use lightning

1576
01:42:48,060 --> 01:42:51,900
address if you want. I think
it's fine. So hopefully we'll

1577
01:42:51,900 --> 01:42:54,390
get that done by the end of the
month so that they can we'll put

1578
01:42:54,390 --> 01:42:58,710
that in the spec so that they
can move on. Okay. Thanks.

1579
01:42:58,740 --> 01:43:03,570
Thanks, Oscar. Appreciate that,
that that support. Mike Dell, we

1580
01:43:03,570 --> 01:43:09,030
get the guest boost. Mike Dale
1701. He says now My name is on

1581
01:43:09,030 --> 01:43:09,210
it.

1582
01:43:11,640 --> 01:43:13,470
Adam Curry: He was I think it
was boosting to be in the

1583
01:43:13,470 --> 01:43:16,800
chapters, which was by the way,
oh, that's kind of nice. It

1584
01:43:16,800 --> 01:43:20,130
seems like everybody kind of
resolved that. Seems like most

1585
01:43:20,130 --> 01:43:23,970
of the apps have gotten the TOC
equals false working for them.

1586
01:43:23,970 --> 01:43:28,140
And I don't think I think it's
the problems have kind of kind

1587
01:43:28,140 --> 01:43:30,150
of gone away. It's nice. I'd
like that.

1588
01:43:30,750 --> 01:43:32,760
Dave Jones: Yeah, I haven't seen
any complaints about it lately.

1589
01:43:32,790 --> 01:43:35,700
Adam Curry: So I think podcasts
the guru still needs to

1590
01:43:36,030 --> 01:43:40,410
implement a change maybe but
I've only gotten one complaint.

1591
01:43:41,460 --> 01:43:45,030
So in the end that that guy was
like, Okay, that's cool. You

1592
01:43:45,030 --> 01:43:48,420
said hey, the chapters are all
messed up. No, it was it was it

1593
01:43:48,420 --> 01:43:52,410
was an app that we didn't even
know about I caster has never

1594
01:43:52,410 --> 01:43:56,640
even heard. Yes. And I cast her
apparently is doing chapters and

1595
01:43:56,640 --> 01:44:01,830
from what I understand the web
version at least of Pocket Casts

1596
01:44:01,830 --> 01:44:05,070
also does cloud chapters now.
Yes.

1597
01:44:05,730 --> 01:44:08,520
Dave Jones: Another another
reason why it's It's okay. We

1598
01:44:08,520 --> 01:44:13,050
pause here for a little while
with the namespace because three

1599
01:44:13,050 --> 01:44:16,170
years later answers is just
coming on board.

1600
01:44:16,170 --> 01:44:19,110
Adam Curry: That's a big deal,
man. That's a big deal. I think

1601
01:44:19,110 --> 01:44:21,570
that's phenomenal because
booster grams we've been showing

1602
01:44:21,570 --> 01:44:23,760
up on Pocket Casts according to
Dame Jennifer.

1603
01:44:24,390 --> 01:44:27,930
Dave Jones: I hope that pre
stages some more some work on

1604
01:44:27,930 --> 01:44:29,580
the actual native apps. Yeah,
wouldn't

1605
01:44:29,580 --> 01:44:30,630
Adam Curry: that be nice? Yeah,

1606
01:44:30,660 --> 01:44:35,310
Dave Jones: that'd be wonderful.
Yeah. Every piece is podcast

1607
01:44:35,310 --> 01:44:40,620
indexed as social as 82 blocks
and then a social has 920

1608
01:44:42,690 --> 01:44:45,750
Adam Curry: Yay. We're number
one.

1609
01:44:46,620 --> 01:44:48,870
Dave Jones: All the blocks on
the podcast index dot social,

1610
01:44:48,870 --> 01:44:51,090
just say Indian Santa Claus
beside them.

1611
01:44:52,380 --> 01:44:56,400
Adam Curry: We just added 15
blocks to our to our Mastodon

1612
01:44:57,420 --> 01:45:00,240
Dave Jones: gene been 20 to 22
Row ducks to customers. A

1613
01:45:00,300 --> 01:45:02,730
cosmetic he says Bring on the
ipv6.

1614
01:45:05,790 --> 01:45:12,030
Adam Curry: Isn't it amazing
that the a cast was the CEO? I

1615
01:45:12,030 --> 01:45:15,900
was really baffled by this. It
was pod news was reporting on it

1616
01:45:16,290 --> 01:45:22,500
that the CEO said, Well, you
know, our list our downloads are

1617
01:45:22,500 --> 01:45:27,510
down. Because Apple changed the
automatic downloads like what do

1618
01:45:27,510 --> 01:45:31,590
you just say the quiet part out
loud dude. What did you just do?

1619
01:45:31,590 --> 01:45:35,430
Really? You didn't just say
that. Did you? Yeah, that's even

1620
01:45:35,430 --> 01:45:38,310
funnier to hear James had no I
can't be Apple yet. It'll be

1621
01:45:38,310 --> 01:45:45,570
Apple next month. Yeah. I mean,
it doesn't just prove that is

1622
01:45:45,570 --> 01:45:49,410
kind of bogus. Am I Am I seeing
that wrong?

1623
01:45:49,890 --> 01:45:52,230
Dave Jones: No, no, I think
you're 100% Right. That's

1624
01:45:52,260 --> 01:45:53,940
Adam Curry: I thought that was
funny.

1625
01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:57,270
Dave Jones: The other the other
one I love this week with

1626
01:45:57,270 --> 01:46:01,230
everybody reporting their
earnings. You know, is like we

1627
01:46:01,350 --> 01:46:06,060
were you know, they always
report revenues up and it's

1628
01:46:06,060 --> 01:46:08,310
like, still not making a profit.
most

1629
01:46:08,310 --> 01:46:11,550
Adam Curry: profitable. If we
only fire five more people will

1630
01:46:11,550 --> 01:46:13,830
be profitable. Uh, come on,
guys.

1631
01:46:15,300 --> 01:46:20,700
Dave Jones: pesky payroll. Chat
F 10,000 SATs. Great episode

1632
01:46:20,700 --> 01:46:22,650
today. Thank you, Chad.
Appreciate it. Thank you,

1633
01:46:22,650 --> 01:46:28,860
brother. See RP. 1984 4000 SATs
through fountain he says

1634
01:46:28,860 --> 01:46:31,320
currently using fountain and
even after digging through the

1635
01:46:31,320 --> 01:46:35,400
menu, I did not see how to bring
up the artist info. Thanks for

1636
01:46:35,400 --> 01:46:38,070
the heads up, Adam. I'll dig in
some more this weekend and find

1637
01:46:38,070 --> 01:46:38,370
that

1638
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:42,150
Adam Curry: I think what he's
talking about is when we have a

1639
01:46:42,480 --> 01:46:47,010
magic wallet switch, also known
as value time split. And if

1640
01:46:47,010 --> 01:46:50,130
you're in Fountain you when
you're listening to a podcast

1641
01:46:50,130 --> 01:46:54,690
that has in this case, as you're
talking about music, you go to

1642
01:46:54,690 --> 01:46:58,860
the References tab on that
episode and then the References

1643
01:46:58,860 --> 01:47:02,280
tab will show you all of the
artists all the tracks that were

1644
01:47:02,280 --> 01:47:06,690
played in the song and on that
podcast guru it's the V four v.

1645
01:47:08,610 --> 01:47:12,810
Logo works really well. It's
very cool.

1646
01:47:13,770 --> 01:47:15,990
Dave Jones: Did you Did Mr.
Graham ball live right?

1647
01:47:16,020 --> 01:47:18,420
Adam Curry: I did. I did like an
hour and 20 minutes I couldn't

1648
01:47:18,420 --> 01:47:21,870
stop. Oh, wow. I love that. I

1649
01:47:21,900 --> 01:47:27,600
Dave Jones: love the image check
the top. The top 1x x it

1650
01:47:27,600 --> 01:47:33,540
Adam Curry: was top 156 for me
today. Oh top 159 Actually let

1651
01:47:33,540 --> 01:47:37,140
me see what is it right now?
167. Um, we got a lot of tops.

1652
01:47:37,710 --> 01:47:41,730
pirate radio number one. We got
shrooms. By the way. I want to

1653
01:47:41,730 --> 01:47:46,680
say hi to Barry from pod home.fm
Just a Dutch guy.

1654
01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:49,650
Dave Jones: Oh, yes. He and he

1655
01:47:49,650 --> 01:47:51,540
Adam Curry: was interviewed if
you haven't listened to it yet

1656
01:47:51,540 --> 01:47:54,750
was interviewed on pod news
weekly review. And he said

1657
01:47:54,750 --> 01:47:59,280
something to me in Dutch is he
will do seller base it here.

1658
01:47:59,550 --> 01:48:00,300
Okay, so

1659
01:48:02,430 --> 01:48:07,020
Dave Jones: now now who's this
is like an audio DM. That's

1660
01:48:07,020 --> 01:48:08,250
exactly what that was.

1661
01:48:11,160 --> 01:48:14,610
Adam Curry: He apparently has
his service you. You just throw

1662
01:48:14,610 --> 01:48:17,700
your podcast in there. And it
does everything and it comes

1663
01:48:17,700 --> 01:48:20,760
back after like a minute and
says, Here's your transcripts.

1664
01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:24,540
Here's your title. Here's your
here's your chapters. It doesn't

1665
01:48:24,540 --> 01:48:29,490
all in one go. Yeah. Oh, crap.
He said I have no, he was a

1666
01:48:29,490 --> 01:48:34,110
great term. And I have no not
code legacy. But oh, there's a

1667
01:48:34,110 --> 01:48:38,070
term for it that I really liked.
Like, no, because when you have

1668
01:48:38,280 --> 01:48:40,770
when you have old code that you
just have to deal with and you

1669
01:48:40,770 --> 01:48:43,800
can't implement and that there's
nothing to say yes. Yeah, I have

1670
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,680
no debt. I have no technology
debt. It's exactly what you

1671
01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:50,610
said. It's like wow, that was
very cool. These interesting guy

1672
01:48:50,610 --> 01:48:52,800
that's why I want to check it
out what he's doing, because

1673
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:56,070
seems like he kind of leapfrog
with the AI stuff. Instead of

1674
01:48:56,280 --> 01:49:04,140
being a strap on. Add on. Sorry,
an add on. My wife isn't home

1675
01:49:04,140 --> 01:49:11,490
okay. Dana, come back and come
back like yeah, you just you

1676
01:49:11,490 --> 01:49:13,950
just upload it and it does all
this stuff for you. I have to

1677
01:49:13,950 --> 01:49:17,280
check it off to see it, though.
Nice. Sounds cool. Oh, sounds

1678
01:49:17,280 --> 01:49:17,580
cool.

1679
01:49:19,320 --> 01:49:25,440
Dave Jones: See, we get 31 night
is a 319480. That's 319 48.

1680
01:49:25,470 --> 01:49:26,070
Israeli

1681
01:49:26,130 --> 01:49:29,040
Adam Curry: Israeli. Yes. Hey,
how you doing brother?

1682
01:49:29,460 --> 01:49:31,980
Dave Jones: Cast? emetics is
sorry for live boost apps. It's

1683
01:49:31,980 --> 01:49:33,180
been a little distracted here.

1684
01:49:34,650 --> 01:49:36,930
Adam Curry: Just a little
distracted with it was a war.

1685
01:49:37,410 --> 01:49:38,670
You guys are next

1686
01:49:38,670 --> 01:49:41,580
Dave Jones: door. Yeah. I'm
still around and pod ping is

1687
01:49:41,580 --> 01:49:42,930
still pinging? Yes.

1688
01:49:42,960 --> 01:49:45,930
Adam Curry: And is Broyles Okay,
I see Roy's on the telegram so

1689
01:49:45,930 --> 01:49:48,270
he's still alive. Everyone's
still good. Let's go our friends

1690
01:49:48,270 --> 01:49:48,960
are alive.

1691
01:49:49,740 --> 01:49:53,340
Dave Jones: Yes, some breeze is
working on stuff. One of the vet

1692
01:49:53,370 --> 01:49:57,690
developers at breeze the enemy
on podcast index dot social is

1693
01:49:57,690 --> 01:50:00,840
Adam Curry: working on VTS right
now your time listen I think so

1694
01:50:00,840 --> 01:50:06,540
you and I saw that some of our
devs are looking at the breeze

1695
01:50:06,540 --> 01:50:07,260
SDK.

1696
01:50:08,429 --> 01:50:11,069
Dave Jones: Yeah, Alex is he's
he's been digging into it. Yeah.

1697
01:50:11,129 --> 01:50:17,879
Yeah. Cool for Greg Greenlight.
Let's see. Where did I lost my

1698
01:50:17,879 --> 01:50:25,019
cursor? There it is. Circus
media sent 167 of 3333 Oh, that

1699
01:50:25,019 --> 01:50:29,849
was a that was a VTS boost? says
our mateys. I guess he's talking

1700
01:50:29,849 --> 01:50:30,449
about pirate

1701
01:50:30,870 --> 01:50:32,100
Adam Curry: pirate radio Sure.

1702
01:50:33,870 --> 01:50:37,890
Dave Jones: As a Karen mere
mortals podcast 2222 Tiny Tim

1703
01:50:37,920 --> 01:50:41,700
you missed the perfect episode
to play my ISO. I know a lot I

1704
01:50:41,700 --> 01:50:46,470
know I forgot it. Um, see the
ISO there's an ISO ISO and I

1705
01:50:46,470 --> 01:50:49,530
forgot to get it out of my
email. Oh, I'll get it for next

1706
01:50:49,530 --> 01:50:56,460
year. Jacobson is 2222 as of BTS
boost he says excellent track.

1707
01:50:56,580 --> 01:51:02,580
Thank you, Jacob. Balderdash
boys and 22 to 22 do Felton. He

1708
01:51:02,580 --> 01:51:04,980
says great episode in the last
few months I switched to

1709
01:51:04,980 --> 01:51:09,090
blueberry because they seem to
really want to embrace 2.0 And I

1710
01:51:09,090 --> 01:51:11,670
haven't been disappointed.
Thanks for all that you guys are

1711
01:51:11,670 --> 01:51:14,430
doing to revolutionize
podcasting. Go podcasting. Sir

1712
01:51:14,430 --> 01:51:17,190
Wes of beer bourbon and
balderdash. Yeah.

1713
01:51:17,430 --> 01:51:20,040
Adam Curry: This guy's are
pretty funny. Oh, yeah. Got a

1714
01:51:20,040 --> 01:51:21,240
lot going on. Yeah.

1715
01:51:22,290 --> 01:51:25,800
Dave Jones: Mitch, D as Mitch
downing for your uninitiated.

1716
01:51:25,830 --> 01:51:30,360
10,000 SATs through pod versus
new and pod verse turbo confetti

1717
01:51:30,360 --> 01:51:31,620
dopamine boost.

1718
01:51:34,500 --> 01:51:38,970
Adam Curry: I know what that
means. I do I do. Because when

1719
01:51:38,970 --> 01:51:43,560
you use pod verse and you boost
it because just whatever the

1720
01:51:43,560 --> 01:51:47,280
overhead is, whatever you know,
you know because a lot of splits

1721
01:51:47,550 --> 01:51:51,360
it would do all the splits
before pod verse would give you

1722
01:51:51,510 --> 01:51:55,620
some gratification and now it's
just like here take this spurt

1723
01:51:55,620 --> 01:51:59,640
here's some confetti trust us
the payment went we think check

1724
01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:03,240
later. I guess it's the way to
go premature

1725
01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:05,700
Dave Jones: it's a premature
confetti I guess. That's

1726
01:52:05,730 --> 01:52:07,470
Adam Curry: That's what pod
verse does. You know, you hit

1727
01:52:07,470 --> 01:52:11,190
the pod verse was the whole
screen shakes, lightning shows

1728
01:52:11,190 --> 01:52:14,490
up confetti goes and like check
later to see if it went through.

1729
01:52:14,490 --> 01:52:18,120
You're good. You enjoy your
listening experience. Trust me.

1730
01:52:19,680 --> 01:52:21,720
Which honestly, I think is the
way to go.

1731
01:52:23,100 --> 01:52:25,740
Dave Jones: Thanks, Mitch.
Appreciate it. Comic Strip

1732
01:52:25,740 --> 01:52:33,780
blogger. The delimiter the
delimiter 30 915 C. Wait,

1733
01:52:33,810 --> 01:52:36,300
Adam Curry: do I 30 915 No,

1734
01:52:36,330 --> 01:52:40,500
Dave Jones: don't miss one. Oh,
wait, wait. I'm 31 it threw me

1735
01:52:40,530 --> 01:52:43,620
It threw me off e podcast or
sent 10,000 SATs. Thank you

1736
01:52:44,220 --> 01:52:48,030
through fountain 10,000 SATs
because we are on day 10 of

1737
01:52:48,030 --> 01:52:54,990
national podcast post month aka
net not pod Pomo oh yeah, this

1738
01:52:54,990 --> 01:52:59,340
Adam Curry: is I don't know what
that thing is. No more podcast

1739
01:52:59,370 --> 01:53:03,030
post month. I have no idea who
made this. Omo is someone's

1740
01:53:03,030 --> 01:53:06,300
making money off of that. No
doubt. scam.

1741
01:53:06,570 --> 01:53:09,960
Dave Jones: I can tell. Thank
you e podcaster. And now comic

1742
01:53:09,960 --> 01:53:15,960
strip blogger nearly 30,915.
Yes. Yes. Through fountain.

1743
01:53:16,890 --> 01:53:20,880
Howdy, David. Adam. Check out
unrelenting. The podcast where

1744
01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:24,150
Jean and Darrin make sense. And
a few jokes about everything

1745
01:53:24,150 --> 01:53:28,260
from Tech Trends. Taylor Swift,
how to get rich quick to

1746
01:53:28,260 --> 01:53:33,990
political twists, tune in laugh
and maybe learn something at WWW

1747
01:53:33,990 --> 01:53:38,610
dot unrelenting dot show or live
on no agenda stream one or two

1748
01:53:38,610 --> 01:53:42,000
hours before podcasting. 2.0
live stream yo CSB.

1749
01:53:42,030 --> 01:53:44,130
Adam Curry: That's right, they
usually on right before us.

1750
01:53:45,510 --> 01:53:51,570
Dave Jones: Get some monthlies.
Get Joseph maraca $5 Emilio can

1751
01:53:51,570 --> 01:53:58,170
Oh Molina $4 you by the way I
think Emilio is a Mexican

1752
01:53:58,170 --> 01:54:05,370
podcaster or Podcast Producer
I'm not sure. But did you see it

1753
01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:07,170
on live stream I

1754
01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:12,630
Adam Curry: podcast is pod
con.mx Live It was very good.

1755
01:54:12,630 --> 01:54:15,780
Now. What was weird is the
balance was a little bit off for

1756
01:54:15,780 --> 01:54:19,140
me. So I wish I could have
balanced between hearing James

1757
01:54:19,140 --> 01:54:23,970
talk and and the Mexican Spanish
translation. Okay, so that got a

1758
01:54:23,970 --> 01:54:29,340
little you know, I was like I
got a little nutty. But that's

1759
01:54:29,340 --> 01:54:33,480
the whole thing. The fact that
it worked. The fact that you

1760
01:54:33,480 --> 01:54:38,220
could boost I watched it pod
verse on the web. Did you watch

1761
01:54:38,220 --> 01:54:38,970
it in an app?

1762
01:54:39,870 --> 01:54:42,960
Dave Jones: Not just about it
was during work hours. So I was

1763
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:47,460
I was checking the curio I
looked at it and it was a curio

1764
01:54:47,460 --> 01:54:51,450
caster. Yeah. Okay. We're in
we're Murphy. I'm sorry. I'm

1765
01:54:51,450 --> 01:54:52,200
sorry. Pod verse.

1766
01:54:52,260 --> 01:54:54,630
Adam Curry: Yeah, the pod verse
on the web version one. It's

1767
01:54:54,630 --> 01:54:55,080
great.

1768
01:54:55,830 --> 01:54:59,970
Dave Jones: Yeah, it was it was
perfect. Like God bless you.

1769
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:04,680
Roberto and Ben for like doing
some sort eating your own dog

1770
01:55:04,680 --> 01:55:06,900
Adam Curry: food. Yes, yes,
exactly.

1771
01:55:07,410 --> 01:55:11,430
Dave Jones: That is we need more
of that people in people in

1772
01:55:11,430 --> 01:55:17,610
podcasting, using podcast apps
to do the stuff. Don't you know,

1773
01:55:17,730 --> 01:55:21,570
instead of jumping over to, to
YouTube or something else, yes,

1774
01:55:21,570 --> 01:55:25,380
use the apps use the apps in
your own ecosystem. I

1775
01:55:25,380 --> 01:55:27,960
Adam Curry: thought it was. It
was really cool. I love that

1776
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:31,170
because it's one of those
things. Now, did they organize

1777
01:55:31,170 --> 01:55:33,960
this podcast? That was RSS as
deal? That was their own? I

1778
01:55:33,960 --> 01:55:34,380
think?

1779
01:55:34,680 --> 01:55:36,870
Dave Jones: I think so. Yeah,
they have a big presence in

1780
01:55:36,900 --> 01:55:39,120
Mexico. They're real big push
down there. You

1781
01:55:39,120 --> 01:55:42,000
Adam Curry: know, those kinds of
things. It's like risky, and it

1782
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:46,800
could be you could wind up
looking like an idiot. So I for

1783
01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:49,290
the same reasons, Dave, I
appreciate him like, Oh, that's

1784
01:55:49,290 --> 01:55:52,860
so cool that you guys did that.
And yeah, you know, and there's

1785
01:55:52,860 --> 01:55:56,610
this there's this. I know that
Alberto is going to write it up

1786
01:55:56,610 --> 01:56:01,110
because there's a there's a live
show that's going to be taking

1787
01:56:01,110 --> 01:56:07,020
place I think in December or
January in Avenue one I think it

1788
01:56:07,020 --> 01:56:10,740
is it's in Minneapolis be like
Prince's old club or something.

1789
01:56:11,220 --> 01:56:16,980
And just loud and Ainsley
Costello will be performing

1790
01:56:16,980 --> 01:56:22,170
live. And, and the guy who owns
the club, I think of the venue.

1791
01:56:22,530 --> 01:56:25,620
You know, he's been like, yeah,
I wanted I want to do value for

1792
01:56:25,620 --> 01:56:30,270
value. And I know he's talked to
Alex and I know but I've talked

1793
01:56:30,270 --> 01:56:36,120
to him. I don't know why. They
haven't even mentioned noster

1794
01:56:36,120 --> 01:56:41,100
Asia. Yeah, I don't work with
Adam curry. Okay. You know, it's

1795
01:56:41,160 --> 01:56:44,910
just to do this thing live. But
I think for some it feels to me

1796
01:56:44,910 --> 01:56:49,200
like, like, they don't want to
do it or it's not nostre are

1797
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:52,110
something which is just whatever
it is, you're making a mistake.

1798
01:56:52,170 --> 01:56:55,920
This is the way to go. This is
the way to go. But it works

1799
01:56:55,920 --> 01:56:59,760
people can can connect their
wallets, they can they can they

1800
01:56:59,760 --> 01:57:05,820
can booths, they can stream it
works. Bitcoin, Amsterdam. You

1801
01:57:05,820 --> 01:57:09,690
guys are losers, you should have
been doing this. We told you

1802
01:57:09,690 --> 01:57:13,770
we'd help you you didn't get
back to us. And here's rss.com

1803
01:57:13,770 --> 01:57:16,110
Just doing and you know what,
I'm going to tell you what's

1804
01:57:16,110 --> 01:57:20,370
gonna happen. They're gonna do
this with Crowder, louder with

1805
01:57:20,370 --> 01:57:27,750
Crowder like him or not doesn't
matter piece on rss.com You

1806
01:57:27,750 --> 01:57:30,780
know, after he left, whatever
the left YouTube and all these

1807
01:57:30,780 --> 01:57:35,190
guys whatever. And I said you
should go with the with one of

1808
01:57:35,190 --> 01:57:38,400
our guys. So they went with
rss.com. You watch they're going

1809
01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:40,800
to be streaming live with this
live stuff and they're going to

1810
01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:43,710
be getting boosted grams. I can
feel it. I can feel it. I'm not

1811
01:57:43,710 --> 01:57:44,070
a wall. I

1812
01:57:44,070 --> 01:57:46,230
Dave Jones: don't listen. I've
never listened to his shows. He

1813
01:57:46,230 --> 01:57:47,070
does a live show.

1814
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:49,830
Adam Curry: Yeah, I think he
does alive. Yeah,

1815
01:57:49,860 --> 01:57:53,070
Dave Jones: I think the crew
Crowder, go, yeah, that that

1816
01:57:53,100 --> 01:57:57,060
that would be killer, that we
just need more. More than just

1817
01:57:57,060 --> 01:58:00,720
need more of this. We need more
of people in the podcast world

1818
01:58:01,050 --> 01:58:06,120
using podcast apps to do their
stuff. Because I mean, if you

1819
01:58:06,120 --> 01:58:11,310
say your pot, if you say if you
talk up if you say podcasting is

1820
01:58:11,340 --> 01:58:13,530
where it's at. Prove it.

1821
01:58:13,620 --> 01:58:21,030
Adam Curry: Yeah, Todd. Todd.
Whoa. Well, come on. They they

1822
01:58:21,030 --> 01:58:22,320
do it live doing it. He's

1823
01:58:22,320 --> 01:58:23,010
Dave Jones: doing it live.

1824
01:58:23,220 --> 01:58:25,530
Adam Curry: He's doing the
audio. He's doing the audio, but

1825
01:58:25,530 --> 01:58:28,530
I don't think he does the video.
I don't think he does video that

1826
01:58:29,190 --> 01:58:31,950
that's on. I believe they do
that on YouTube. I

1827
01:58:31,950 --> 01:58:35,850
Dave Jones: want to see the
podcast. What are the words that

1828
01:58:35,850 --> 01:58:37,200
he does? Well,

1829
01:58:37,200 --> 01:58:38,970
Adam Curry: that Well, I don't
want to wait another year for

1830
01:58:40,410 --> 01:58:41,610
the next new media show.

1831
01:58:42,030 --> 01:58:44,310
Dave Jones: But these conference
type things where do you do you

1832
01:58:44,310 --> 01:58:45,630
know, like these events? Yeah.

1833
01:58:48,120 --> 01:58:50,010
Adam Curry: You know, maybe,
maybe, you know, I'm gonna get

1834
01:58:50,010 --> 01:58:53,460
mad one of these days and I'm
just gonna do a conference. No,

1835
01:58:53,460 --> 01:58:56,400
Dave Jones: you're not no. Yeah,
that's all Yes. Okay. All right.

1836
01:58:57,930 --> 01:58:59,610
Tina, come back. This is how

1837
01:58:59,610 --> 01:59:00,480
Adam Curry: we keep each other
and you

1838
01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:03,300
Dave Jones: just raised this
Absolutely. You're losing it.

1839
01:59:04,830 --> 01:59:07,950
Adam Curry: Come home quick. a
month. Rest

1840
01:59:07,950 --> 01:59:10,770
Dave Jones: of the Muslims got
basil. Philip $25 Thank you,

1841
01:59:10,770 --> 01:59:13,860
basil. We appreciate that very
much pod verse. Mentioned the

1842
01:59:13,860 --> 01:59:15,330
boys $50

1843
01:59:15,390 --> 01:59:18,210
Adam Curry: Thank you Lauren
ball. $24.20

1844
01:59:18,210 --> 01:59:21,090
Dave Jones: Thank you, Lauren.
Christopher horrible. Eric $10

1845
01:59:21,300 --> 01:59:24,390
and Mitch Mitchell Downey again
$10. Yes.

1846
01:59:24,450 --> 01:59:28,710
Adam Curry: Thank you all so
much. We appreciate the support.

1847
01:59:29,010 --> 01:59:33,300
You're supporting our our
Obliteration and we really

1848
01:59:33,300 --> 01:59:37,710
appreciate that our mission is
to you support us until we don't

1849
01:59:37,710 --> 01:59:40,320
need support anymore. And then
we just gone and then everything

1850
01:59:40,320 --> 01:59:44,880
works. It will be verified and
then Adam and Dave just we just

1851
01:59:44,910 --> 01:59:48,900
peace out. We just sail off we
just go into the sunset, like to

1852
01:59:48,900 --> 01:59:58,170
cowboy hat. Christopher
Christopher cross, say Lin, take

1853
01:59:58,170 --> 02:00:04,440
me away too. Where the latency
doesn't work with our harmonies?

1854
02:00:06,930 --> 02:00:10,410
Yes, Chris, criss cross as we
say, Yes, criss cross,

1855
02:00:10,980 --> 02:00:11,400
Dave Jones: this criss

1856
02:00:11,400 --> 02:00:14,670
Adam Curry: cross. Let me see if
I have anything else on my list.

1857
02:00:15,600 --> 02:00:20,040
Pom Pom Lucy. Well, just even
though we passed the topics

1858
02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:24,480
Mozilla is working on fare
defying in the browser, I guess

1859
02:00:25,050 --> 02:00:28,230
was that the article we have in
the browser here activity pub in

1860
02:00:28,230 --> 02:00:34,290
the browser? Curl now does IPFS

1861
02:00:36,300 --> 02:00:38,820
Dave Jones: yep, that's the
deal. But

1862
02:00:38,820 --> 02:00:40,770
Adam Curry: they use a gateway,
right? It's not really an IP, it

1863
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:43,860
is not doesn't have an IP Fs
client. And it magically you can

1864
02:00:43,860 --> 02:00:45,090
just define a gateway.

1865
02:00:46,680 --> 02:00:51,360
Dave Jones: You can you define a
thought you define the Default

1866
02:00:51,360 --> 02:00:51,870
Node.

1867
02:00:52,170 --> 02:00:54,780
Adam Curry: Okay, so it doesn't
include a node you can you can

1868
02:00:54,780 --> 02:00:58,050
define a node on your own
machine. I

1869
02:00:58,050 --> 02:01:01,680
Dave Jones: think that's right.
I did. I don't think it's using

1870
02:01:01,680 --> 02:01:06,360
a gateway I think is native.
Because it's talking about I

1871
02:01:06,630 --> 02:01:09,840
mean, I think it's native. I'll
have to reread it but I thought

1872
02:01:09,840 --> 02:01:10,500
it was native.

1873
02:01:11,010 --> 02:01:12,870
Adam Curry: Well, I thought I
thought it could breed the

1874
02:01:12,870 --> 02:01:17,760
native IPFS and then it would
retrieve it from the gateway you

1875
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:23,490
define. Maybe Maybe I saw that
wrong. Maybe I saw that as

1876
02:01:24,030 --> 02:01:28,740
Dave Jones: a basis for get
merged into curl. I love curl

1877
02:01:28,740 --> 02:01:36,330
with you. I'm a curl guy over wi
yet it's got way more way more

1878
02:01:36,330 --> 02:01:40,410
capable. At the first input
there are various ways to access

1879
02:01:40,410 --> 02:01:46,800
data one such ways to conserve
gateway. Or Lani, Evie, there's

1880
02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:49,320
integration curl hides this
gateway logic for you. So

1881
02:01:49,320 --> 02:01:52,860
instead of providing a full URL
to a file on an IP Fs like this

1882
02:01:53,490 --> 02:01:57,240
you can provide it with the FAA
as a protocol Yes, you're right

1883
02:01:57,240 --> 02:01:57,390
you're

1884
02:01:58,860 --> 02:02:03,420
Adam Curry: my SIR wins again.
Yeah, yes, yes. Anything I'm

1885
02:02:03,420 --> 02:02:11,250
good at it's man. Man Man curl.
And thank you very much Spotify

1886
02:02:11,250 --> 02:02:14,790
for pushing more people towards
value for value music pushing us

1887
02:02:14,790 --> 02:02:19,650
toward the value verse. New term
New term I came up with today.

1888
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:24,300
The value verse Yes. By no
longer paying people any money

1889
02:02:24,330 --> 02:02:30,000
great. We're so appreciative.
Like, you have to be played at

1890
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:33,540
least 1000 times a month before
you get any money and the money

1891
02:02:33,570 --> 02:02:37,860
if so if you have 999 streams,
they give it to Taylor Swift.

1892
02:02:38,100 --> 02:02:41,190
I'm telling you these guys these
guys got great marketing come to

1893
02:02:41,190 --> 02:02:42,480
us we'll rip you off.

1894
02:02:43,530 --> 02:02:46,590
Dave Jones: It's hilarious that
it was it was Twitter or

1895
02:02:46,590 --> 02:02:49,080
something? Where did I see that
check of somebody who had like a

1896
02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:54,510
whole ton of streams and it was
like 1000s and 1000s 40 bucks.

1897
02:02:55,020 --> 02:02:57,870
Adam Curry: I think that was I
think it was on I might have

1898
02:02:57,870 --> 02:03:01,410
been on the mastodon I saw it
and then I love and Sam Seth he

1899
02:03:01,410 --> 02:03:04,380
was doing some great math I love
that. He's like you know for all

1900
02:03:04,380 --> 02:03:08,520
that you know if you'd done it
by this and divided by 15 Square

1901
02:03:08,520 --> 02:03:12,510
root you make more on value for
value. That's right. always

1902
02:03:12,510 --> 02:03:16,650
true. It's always true. All
right, brother thanks for giving

1903
02:03:16,650 --> 02:03:19,230
up your Friday night this was
well worth it. I love being in

1904
02:03:19,230 --> 02:03:21,780
the in the boardroom after dark
with you

1905
02:03:22,410 --> 02:03:26,070
Dave Jones: yeah that's that's
yep conflict today day jobs

1906
02:03:26,070 --> 02:03:28,020
happen so now's this was good.

1907
02:03:28,230 --> 02:03:30,360
Adam Curry: We should just plan
this in from time to time just

1908
02:03:30,360 --> 02:03:33,990
do I love I love doing a podcast
at night. Nice and dark and get

1909
02:03:33,990 --> 02:03:36,330
everything off. I got the green
visor on.

1910
02:03:36,870 --> 02:03:41,580
Dave Jones: gamma gamma lamp on
the road casters. I'll pretty

1911
02:03:41,580 --> 02:03:41,760
well,

1912
02:03:42,510 --> 02:03:44,970
Adam Curry: you could see that.
You could see the lights. Yeah,

1913
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:45,900
yeah,

1914
02:03:45,930 --> 02:03:48,060
Dave Jones: we need to yeah,
we'll do we'll do a brad every

1915
02:03:48,060 --> 02:03:50,040
now and then once in a while.
That

1916
02:03:50,040 --> 02:03:52,320
Adam Curry: board room after
dark everybody. All right. Thank

1917
02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:55,620
you very much. Chat Room for
being with us. And thank you for

1918
02:03:55,620 --> 02:03:58,140
attending the board meeting.
We'll be back next week with the

1919
02:03:58,140 --> 02:04:00,960
board meeting of podcasting 2.0.

1920
02:04:18,030 --> 02:04:22,590
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast

1921
02:04:22,590 --> 02:04:25,350
index dashboard for more
information.

1922
02:04:25,770 --> 02:04:29,430
Adam Curry: Go podcast. Clearly
something sexy is happening

1923
02:04:29,430 --> 02:04:29,640
here.