Episode 152: Drop the TOC

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,430
Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0
for October 27 2023, episode 150

2
00:00:05,430 --> 00:00:12,690
to drop the talk. Hello, welcome
to podcasting 2.0 It is time

3
00:00:12,690 --> 00:00:16,020
once again for the official
board meeting. And we do it in

4
00:00:16,020 --> 00:00:19,860
the only boardroom where
everybody has a gavel everything

5
00:00:19,860 --> 00:00:23,430
happening at podcasts index.org
with a namespace for the crazy

6
00:00:23,430 --> 00:00:27,090
chapters and all the goings on
and podcasts index dot social

7
00:00:27,090 --> 00:00:29,700
I'm Adam curry here in the heart
of the Texas Hill Country and in

8
00:00:29,700 --> 00:00:33,390
Alabama, my personal calm and
any storm and he's high on meds

9
00:00:33,390 --> 00:00:36,240
ladies say hello to my friend on
the other end ladies and

10
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,330
gentlemen, the one and only Mr.
Dave Jones.

11
00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:45,450
Dave Jones: Hi on mids Hi
Ahmed's low on Chapter boosts

12
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:53,460
the chapter boost thing I mean
talk about I mean, that stirred

13
00:00:53,460 --> 00:00:56,880
up a bunch of stuff I was not
expecting. Oh, I love that he

14
00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,020
hates chapter boosts.

15
00:00:58,050 --> 00:01:01,710
Adam Curry: No, no, no, no,
that's not true. I first Okay,

16
00:01:01,710 --> 00:01:05,040
first of all, let's let's just
let's take a breath everybody.

17
00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,730
Dave, you're not feeling well.
So but we have to give you we

18
00:01:11,730 --> 00:01:13,890
have to do you want the comfy
chair? Hey, once you take the

19
00:01:13,890 --> 00:01:15,030
beat you want the beanbag?

20
00:01:17,850 --> 00:01:19,080
Dave Jones: Like a stuffed
animal.

21
00:01:19,619 --> 00:01:21,749
Adam Curry: You do need a
comfort a comfort animal a

22
00:01:21,749 --> 00:01:23,429
comfort story to make you feel
better.

23
00:01:23,820 --> 00:01:26,190
Dave Jones: What they call is
emotional support emotionally.

24
00:01:26,190 --> 00:01:27,870
Yes. Yes. Emotional support.

25
00:01:27,870 --> 00:01:29,340
Adam Curry: Bear. Exactly.

26
00:01:29,729 --> 00:01:34,259
Dave Jones: There you go. Every
all I have is an emotional

27
00:01:34,259 --> 00:01:38,609
support. Beef shake. And it's
not it's really cold and not

28
00:01:38,609 --> 00:01:39,779
very fun to hold on to.

29
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,360
Adam Curry: All right, yes, I'll
take I'll take this one. I've

30
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,970
been preparing for this one for
for a week.

31
00:01:49,410 --> 00:01:53,250
Dave Jones: The chapter boosts
envision envision me behind you,

32
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,090
rubbing the shoulders smack in
the arms getting you ready.

33
00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,020
Like, you know,

34
00:01:58,710 --> 00:02:01,020
Adam Curry: this is this is
really, really good. We learned

35
00:02:01,020 --> 00:02:05,010
so much. Now, first of all,
these only really happened on my

36
00:02:05,010 --> 00:02:10,200
feet. So, you know, it was
amazing to see how far people

37
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,500
took this as we are doing and
we're this and we shouldn't be

38
00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:16,770
doing that. And this is ruining
everything. And it's like hold

39
00:02:16,770 --> 00:02:19,950
on us. It's just a couple of
feeds I maintain. It's not the

40
00:02:19,950 --> 00:02:23,010
end of the world. Nothing has
changed. It is though it is the

41
00:02:23,010 --> 00:02:27,510
spec has not changed. Know, what
we learned and what I learned

42
00:02:27,540 --> 00:02:30,510
which let me just back up and
explain what what happened for

43
00:02:30,510 --> 00:02:35,610
people who are new. Based upon
an ad hoc idea, John Spurlock

44
00:02:35,610 --> 00:02:40,620
put together the reflex service,
which enables you to reroute or

45
00:02:40,620 --> 00:02:45,480
route booster grams that are
sent to a podcast or to an

46
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,280
episode to be rerouted and added
to the currently an existing

47
00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,870
chapters file with timestamps
and they will show up in the

48
00:02:54,870 --> 00:02:57,720
chapters interface, I'm going to
call it that for a specific

49
00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,280
reason. Chapters interface, yes,
because there's two pieces, two

50
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,120
chapters. And this is what I
learned. And I'm and I have to

51
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:13,230
say, I am incredibly happy to
learn. Not just that people love

52
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:18,210
chapters, but that they use
them. This was, to me was really

53
00:03:18,210 --> 00:03:23,010
not well known before all this.
But there's there's two, when I

54
00:03:23,010 --> 00:03:26,940
say chapter interface, there's
what I what I love is chapter

55
00:03:26,940 --> 00:03:31,320
images. I love looking at, I
love you know, if I'm driving in

56
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:37,470
the car, or from just listening,
I typically don't if it's a show

57
00:03:37,470 --> 00:03:40,860
that has good chapters, I want
to see what images come by so

58
00:03:40,860 --> 00:03:45,600
mere mortals, you know, chyron
does great images. And I, to me,

59
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,650
it's like a it's a an extra
dimension to an audio podcast.

60
00:03:50,250 --> 00:03:55,470
So to see images come by, and
then a boost a booster gram with

61
00:03:55,470 --> 00:04:00,750
a message and then another image
of delightful what I personally

62
00:04:00,750 --> 00:04:05,130
never use. But what I think
chapters are used for the most

63
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:11,460
is the table of contents. This
is what it screwed up that the

64
00:04:11,460 --> 00:04:15,720
Table of Contents people use to
come back to a podcast,

65
00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:20,610
particularly some of the longer
ones that that I that I produce

66
00:04:20,610 --> 00:04:25,350
on feeds where people like or to
skip certain segments. I think

67
00:04:25,350 --> 00:04:28,530
people use it for that as well,
which obviously I'm not a huge

68
00:04:28,530 --> 00:04:32,310
fan of but I understand it and
chapters are in there for a

69
00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:35,610
reason. So suddenly, I want to I
want to skip this topic. I want

70
00:04:35,610 --> 00:04:39,600
to go to the next topic, so that
it works incredibly well for

71
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:47,280
that. So putting in the booster
grams that show up in the table

72
00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:52,800
of contents of chapters, which
people say is chapters, no

73
00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:57,750
chapters is a chapter object. I
went back I looked at the spec

74
00:04:57,750 --> 00:05:02,250
and I learned something about
the spec that chapter object is

75
00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:06,660
ID booster grams with a
timestamp are completely valid

76
00:05:06,660 --> 00:05:11,460
as a chapter chapter object, but
not in the way people, people

77
00:05:11,460 --> 00:05:18,210
use chapter table of contents.
So luckily, with the foresight

78
00:05:18,210 --> 00:05:22,140
of some brilliant people, I
don't know exactly who there is

79
00:05:22,170 --> 00:05:27,900
a extra little option you can
set, which is to see equals

80
00:05:27,900 --> 00:05:34,440
false, it is true by default, or
if omitted. So, in moving

81
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,440
forward in this experiment, and
I still consider it to be

82
00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:42,810
experiment, I asked John
Spurlock to immediately label

83
00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:49,350
all booster grams as TOC equals
false, so that they will not

84
00:05:49,350 --> 00:05:53,970
show up in the table of contents
and therefore will satisfy

85
00:05:54,180 --> 00:05:58,890
everybody who had an issue. And
it's it's 100% of the negative

86
00:05:58,890 --> 00:06:02,940
feedback was about not the
chapters, the table of contents.

87
00:06:03,690 --> 00:06:08,460
Yes. Now, of course, exactly 0%
of apps have implemented that.

88
00:06:10,170 --> 00:06:13,230
We're all busy developers, and
we all you know, we all have

89
00:06:13,230 --> 00:06:15,570
stuff to do, and it works. And
that's fine. We don't have to

90
00:06:15,570 --> 00:06:20,430
look at it. Oops, what do you
mean? Oops.

91
00:06:21,090 --> 00:06:24,300
Dave Jones: Well, nobody oops,
that nobody did full implemented

92
00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:24,930
the full spec.

93
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,130
Adam Curry: Oh, no, that's okay.
I mean, I

94
00:06:26,130 --> 00:06:28,650
Dave Jones: didn't expect Yes,
it's totally not a criticism.

95
00:06:28,650 --> 00:06:30,690
No, no, thanks all the time.

96
00:06:30,690 --> 00:06:34,830
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. So
based upon a lot of feedback

97
00:06:34,830 --> 00:06:38,460
that I got, because they're my
feeds, so I got most of the

98
00:06:38,460 --> 00:06:43,140
feedback. And, and, and most of
it, that was negative was

99
00:06:43,140 --> 00:06:47,550
extremely negative, very
negative, but it was really only

100
00:06:47,550 --> 00:06:52,560
about the Table of Contents, not
about the images that fly by the

101
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,800
images that you would see on
your car system. If you're using

102
00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:00,630
an app that does CarPlay or, or
Android Auto, which I find

103
00:07:00,630 --> 00:07:08,040
delightful. Then to me, that is
I love those chapter changes. I

104
00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,300
don't use table if that's not
true, even I think on one or two

105
00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:16,560
shows may use the Table of
Contents. But it's typically so

106
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,760
it'd be like, a good example
would be partners weekly review.

107
00:07:20,970 --> 00:07:23,970
If I'm really bored of the
interview, then I'll then I'll

108
00:07:23,970 --> 00:07:26,580
say, okay, boom, let me get past
this. And I can easily find the

109
00:07:26,580 --> 00:07:29,550
next spot. And I heard that
perfect example. Yeah, the same

110
00:07:29,550 --> 00:07:32,730
thing. And I would totally
understand if, and there's all

111
00:07:32,730 --> 00:07:36,600
different, every app responds in
a different way. So some, you

112
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,890
know, we don't have to get into
it, the table of contents should

113
00:07:40,890 --> 00:07:43,470
be holy. The table of contents

114
00:07:43,470 --> 00:07:46,800
Dave Jones: is for skipping yes
through is for skipping to the

115
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,250
end of somebody who's talking
about brand uplift strategy.

116
00:07:51,450 --> 00:07:54,510
Adam Curry: That's the only
reason for it. It's only for

117
00:07:54,510 --> 00:08:02,700
that. So in my mind, and this is
what I would propose the that it

118
00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:07,410
seems like so. So what happened
was very interesting, because

119
00:08:07,410 --> 00:08:10,650
there was a very long thread.
And it was like, and it got into

120
00:08:10,650 --> 00:08:13,770
cross app comments. And we
should be showing these in

121
00:08:13,770 --> 00:08:18,270
different file and all this. No,
no, I disagree with all of that.

122
00:08:18,510 --> 00:08:23,310
This is just another chapter
object. It's a valid top to

123
00:08:23,310 --> 00:08:28,380
Chapter object, because it's
based on a timeline. And it has

124
00:08:28,380 --> 00:08:34,590
data, it isn't, it is invalid as
a table of contents. vitam. So

125
00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:39,150
it seems like it wouldn't be a
huge, I'm speaking for every

126
00:08:39,150 --> 00:08:41,910
developer in the world, hey,
it's easy. Just put it in TOC

127
00:08:41,910 --> 00:08:45,120
flow, you know, filter that out,
pull it pull request, yeah, do a

128
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,690
pull request, it's done. I would
like to add to that something

129
00:08:48,690 --> 00:08:52,860
that was in a thread that you
are on for future uses. And that

130
00:08:52,860 --> 00:08:57,240
will be type equals, because I
totally see where there could be

131
00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:02,460
many different types of chapter
markers that do not belong in

132
00:09:02,460 --> 00:09:08,190
the table of contents. That
actually, again, I feel that the

133
00:09:08,190 --> 00:09:12,420
chapter images what rotates on
my screen when I'm listening to

134
00:09:12,750 --> 00:09:17,670
I particularly like it with
music shows. When you're hearing

135
00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:20,820
a song, boom, the album art
changes, boom, then the next

136
00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:25,500
song that's very enjoyable to
see that which is why radio

137
00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:28,830
stations do it RDS does this all
the time you drive and you see

138
00:09:28,830 --> 00:09:33,090
the album change. This is a very
normal, very, very well

139
00:09:33,090 --> 00:09:39,630
understood type of interface for
it for listening. You know, not

140
00:09:39,630 --> 00:09:43,920
all cars or apps are compatible,
but I see the work that's being

141
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,490
done. I think pod verse has done
a lot of work on that. So I

142
00:09:47,490 --> 00:09:55,710
totally see. A type equals as a
valid addition to the spec that

143
00:09:55,710 --> 00:10:01,350
should be considered. But I but
the issue it. And I never

144
00:10:01,350 --> 00:10:05,670
thought it's the weirdest thing.
I finally understand part of

145
00:10:05,670 --> 00:10:12,480
Dave Winer because Because Dave
Winer would say, Oh, your app is

146
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:18,420
broken. Because it doesn't know
how to how to filter out a TOC

147
00:10:18,420 --> 00:10:22,320
equals false. Now he wouldn't
have this whole conversation

148
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,530
behind it. Because you've
probably been, he would just

149
00:10:25,530 --> 00:10:29,160
say, your apps broken, your app
is broken, it's no good, your

150
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:35,730
app is no good, without giving
any explanation. So I would I

151
00:10:35,730 --> 00:10:44,670
would love for the poor podcast
apps to, at minimum, filter out

152
00:10:44,670 --> 00:10:49,860
the TOC equals false chapter
markers so that sanity is

153
00:10:49,860 --> 00:10:56,430
restored to the universe. But I
would also like to continue with

154
00:10:56,430 --> 00:11:03,900
the showing booster grams in the
chapter system, because I like

155
00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:06,780
seeing it, I think people who
send booster grams like seeing

156
00:11:06,780 --> 00:11:12,450
it, you know, it's fun. And with
the type equals, you know, it

157
00:11:12,450 --> 00:11:15,930
can be used for, you know, it
can be used in different pieces

158
00:11:16,380 --> 00:11:19,680
of an app interface. And we
could come up with more types of

159
00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:23,250
Chapter images, which when you
think about it, this is really a

160
00:11:23,250 --> 00:11:28,320
third dimension, as I said,
where it's an additional

161
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,340
dimension to podcasting,
certainly in automobiles, that

162
00:11:33,060 --> 00:11:37,680
hasn't really gotten a lot of
love. But I but you know,

163
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:42,000
because, you know, even the idea
of of rotating images by itself

164
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:48,030
is relatively new. But it's it's
well understood in automobiles.

165
00:11:48,660 --> 00:11:51,900
So we could have all kinds of
new things popping up there. And

166
00:11:51,900 --> 00:11:54,210
I think a type equals is
something to consider.

167
00:11:55,650 --> 00:12:01,590
Dave Jones: The Yeah, so let me
let me add flavor text to what

168
00:12:01,590 --> 00:12:07,740
you're saying. Because I think
that or not, I don't really, I

169
00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:13,920
think I think your instinct is
correct you the TOC. Toggle is

170
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,390
already there. True False. That
solves an immediate issue. If

171
00:12:18,390 --> 00:12:24,720
you implement that, that sort of
gets you over the hair on fire.

172
00:12:24,750 --> 00:12:29,070
Oh my god, what are these things
do it in my chapters? So that's,

173
00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:32,760
that's that's there. I want to
add some flavor to that though,

174
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,660
because there's not is that a
douchey thing? If I say I want

175
00:12:36,660 --> 00:12:39,360
to add some flavor that's all
said enough. I realize that

176
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,740
sounds kind of like a douche.
Are you wearing

177
00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:46,680
Adam Curry: cargo pants when you
say it or not gonna hit mute or

178
00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:49,710
shorts on because No, you're in
your underwear? Aren't you?

179
00:12:49,710 --> 00:12:54,060
Okay, stop. We don't We need no
visuals. Are you streaming

180
00:12:54,060 --> 00:12:59,520
video? Can we see you on? The no
agenda to buy? Yeah, okay,

181
00:12:59,550 --> 00:13:03,570
Dave Jones: I'm gonna let me let
me back that up. Okay. Let me

182
00:13:03,570 --> 00:13:05,910
add some, some some color.

183
00:13:06,630 --> 00:13:08,160
Adam Curry: Racist. Yes. Okay.

184
00:13:09,090 --> 00:13:15,210
Dave Jones: This is no dairy
down here. The type. So the TOC,

185
00:13:15,210 --> 00:13:21,420
really, it solves this problem,
but it's not the intended

186
00:13:21,420 --> 00:13:26,460
solution to this problem. Like,
you know, and this is, this is

187
00:13:26,460 --> 00:13:31,980
part of this, this happens to
all specifications. You you

188
00:13:31,980 --> 00:13:36,150
start where you know, you, you
know, you start where you know,

189
00:13:36,510 --> 00:13:39,960
but it's like, Okay, here's the
things we have in front of us.

190
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:46,470
And if you go too far, and try
to envision everything that

191
00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:49,890
could possibly come in the
future, you get it, you'll

192
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,510
you'll inevitably get it wrong
and eff it up. So you really

193
00:13:54,510 --> 00:13:57,600
have to start with what is right
in front of you. And that's

194
00:13:57,930 --> 00:14:01,860
that's kind of what we did is
like okay, we have two use cases

195
00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:07,320
we have standard chapter
modeling which is what has

196
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,220
always been there in like the ID
three tags in the in the in in

197
00:14:11,220 --> 00:14:14,640
the audio file and all these all
these different chapter formats

198
00:14:15,270 --> 00:14:18,990
like that that's like your
baseline we you need to have a

199
00:14:18,990 --> 00:14:22,740
table of contents for different
content sections within the

200
00:14:22,740 --> 00:14:33,240
episode. But then we also had
this other this other idea of if

201
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:39,570
T of having the chapters be
editable by the crowd, which our

202
00:14:39,570 --> 00:14:43,800
crowd consists of drips got. I
mean, like the crowd, the entire

203
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:44,100
crowd,

204
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,190
Adam Curry: one drip Scott is
Drebin to drip Scott's a crowd.

205
00:14:47,490 --> 00:14:52,890
Dave Jones: Yes, yes. So but but
the idea there cloud cloud

206
00:14:52,890 --> 00:14:58,410
chapters is what enabled
something like this thing to

207
00:14:58,410 --> 00:15:03,480
have to happen. Yes to be get in
with. Yeah. So we have last time

208
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,770
I checked a couple months, you
know, like, couple of months

209
00:15:07,770 --> 00:15:12,630
ago, we had like, around 13,000
listeners to this show a month.

210
00:15:12,630 --> 00:15:16,620
So I guarantee you some people
have no idea what we're talking

211
00:15:16,620 --> 00:15:24,540
about the worst simply talking
about when people send a boost,

212
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,510
should it show up as an event, a
time marker in the chapters of

213
00:15:30,510 --> 00:15:35,250
the show? So without cloud based
chapters, things like that

214
00:15:35,250 --> 00:15:39,210
wouldn't even be possible.
Correct. So that's the two

215
00:15:39,210 --> 00:15:43,830
things we know. We have, we know
that. You need chapters,

216
00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:47,640
attached chapter bookmarks
within the file within the

217
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,090
episode, and you also needed
them to be editable. Now there's

218
00:15:51,090 --> 00:15:56,910
this other thing that came in
from the TOC thing actually came

219
00:15:56,910 --> 00:16:04,680
in from when we imported the
format from the previous

220
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:11,670
namespace right. Now it was it
was Frederick Buurman. He has

221
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:16,230
the he had this app, this Mac
app called Chapter The Mac

222
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:19,230
chapters, I think is what was
called Oh, basically just what

223
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:25,830
in he had, he had a JSON format
already. And ours when we looked

224
00:16:25,830 --> 00:16:28,830
at them, it this is like God,
this is like three years right

225
00:16:28,830 --> 00:16:30,960
in the beginning. Yeah, right.
In the beginning very early.

226
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,250
Yeah. So we looked, we found
this sort of prior art, if you

227
00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:39,330
want to speak about JSON cloud
chapters, where he was saying

228
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,900
where he had this format that
long almost exactly matched the

229
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:46,500
format that we had been working
on, right? So it's like, okay,

230
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:50,220
well, why don't we come by
reached out to him? And like,

231
00:16:50,220 --> 00:16:54,780
why don't we combine and make
these formats? mesh together?

232
00:16:55,230 --> 00:17:00,780
That way, we immediately have a
tool that already produces this

233
00:17:00,780 --> 00:17:06,360
format, which is your tool. And
then you pay, we can say, okay,

234
00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:09,270
hey, you won't cloud chapters go
and use this tool. Now, this is

235
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:15,120
before hyper capture. And so
then he had in there, this idea

236
00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:19,320
of this table of contents flag,
which ended up but you look at

237
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,710
it, oh, that's a great idea.
Sometimes you want to have a

238
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:32,490
marker that happens in the
chapters. That isn't visible as

239
00:17:32,490 --> 00:17:37,200
a bookmark, but it's good isn't
isn't event placeholder almost.

240
00:17:37,530 --> 00:17:45,120
So you could imagine something
like a location tag or a or a

241
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:46,560
picture change, right?

242
00:17:46,590 --> 00:17:51,930
Adam Curry: Yes, exactly. Or the
an ad or a or sponsor message?

243
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:58,500
Or could be, you know, a an MK
Ultra zap? It could be yes. If

244
00:17:58,500 --> 00:18:01,410
you look at it, then you get you
get mind controlled any of that.

245
00:18:01,410 --> 00:18:01,830
Yes.

246
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,570
Dave Jones: All valid. And so
then that so this, this idea of

247
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:10,290
having a table of contents, a
table of contents, visibility

248
00:18:10,290 --> 00:18:14,550
flag, true false, was very
appealing. So we'll Yeah, let's

249
00:18:14,910 --> 00:18:22,320
pull that right, in. That, that
is, that's what the intent was

250
00:18:22,650 --> 00:18:30,900
to have invisible things show up
only in the podcast UI and not

251
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:32,760
in the chapter Table of
Contents,

252
00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:35,280
Adam Curry: which is what and
that's the disconnect, just to

253
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,000
add some color to your color.
When people say color, when

254
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,330
people say you mess chapters up,
what they're saying is you

255
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:45,180
because I they sent me
screenshots. No one sent me a

256
00:18:45,180 --> 00:18:49,290
screenshot of the UI of a square
image and saying this is messed

257
00:18:49,290 --> 00:18:54,240
up now. They said, I can't skip
ahead. I can't find where I was

258
00:18:54,480 --> 00:19:00,330
all. Absolutely one. I'm going
to say it 100% Correct feedback,

259
00:19:01,050 --> 00:19:06,330
correct feedback? That's
completely correct. And that

260
00:19:06,330 --> 00:19:12,120
table of contents to me, the
literal is the table of contents

261
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:14,640
of the content of the podcast.

262
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,760
Dave Jones: Right. But here's
where I don't think that

263
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:25,290
ultimately the Table of Contents
toggle, I think this is a short

264
00:19:25,290 --> 00:19:32,100
term fix that needs longer that
needs a correct fix, which is

265
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:37,770
the type parameter right. So the
because the table of contents is

266
00:19:37,770 --> 00:19:44,880
a hammer, you you are you are
saying as the creator of the

267
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:50,790
chapters, you are saying, I
don't want this visible, but

268
00:19:51,150 --> 00:19:56,130
some people might want it
visible. I enjoy the chapters. I

269
00:19:56,130 --> 00:19:59,400
like the boosts in the chapters.
I like them in the table of

270
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:05,940
contents. Huh, I enjoy that. I
don't know. And I think, see,

271
00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:11,940
the only reason I've can say why
I like it is because it's fun to

272
00:20:11,940 --> 00:20:16,620
me to actually use chapters a
lot because I go back and forth.

273
00:20:16,620 --> 00:20:20,310
I skip and then I go back. You
know what it became for me after

274
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:21,210
using it for me,

275
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,500
Adam Curry: it became like a
helipad. Yes. Like, hey, who

276
00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,020
boosted what's and then you
click in it to get the message.

277
00:20:28,020 --> 00:20:29,790
I understand what you're saying.
Absolutely. It

278
00:20:29,790 --> 00:20:35,190
Dave Jones: was fun in to listen
to last week's no agenda. And

279
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:40,620
then I flipped open the chapters
and see all all these boosts in

280
00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:44,700
there. And those boosts never
get shown in no agenda. Because

281
00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:48,120
they're not it's, you know,
because of Jhansi Dvorak,

282
00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:54,150
because it was fun to see that
people are boosting and what

283
00:20:54,150 --> 00:20:56,730
they were, what their messages
were, and all that kind of stuff

284
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,790
it to me, it adds to it. I like
it. But that's just me

285
00:20:59,790 --> 00:21:05,760
personally, to see there. I like
it. But sir, Libra hates it.

286
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:12,810
Adam Curry: The end with a with
a capital H. Right. There's no

287
00:21:12,810 --> 00:21:16,230
Jesus in that mofo. I hate this.

288
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:22,290
Dave Jones: And the heat, so he
hates it, I like it. That tells

289
00:21:22,290 --> 00:21:27,690
you that, that that tells you
that the podcaster should not be

290
00:21:27,690 --> 00:21:31,620
controlling whether those things
are visible in my app, it should

291
00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:34,920
be me that controls whether
they're visible. Therefore Table

292
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:41,190
of Contents isn't the isn't the
appropriate long term fix. If we

293
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:44,610
put a type parameter in there
and say, Okay, this chapter

294
00:21:44,610 --> 00:21:50,790
object is of type boost, then I
can go and toggle a flag in the

295
00:21:50,790 --> 00:21:54,540
settings of pod verse and say I
want to see boosts in my

296
00:21:54,540 --> 00:22:01,140
chapters. But I but in Libra can
say that he does not right. And

297
00:22:01,170 --> 00:22:06,450
and now it's our decision, not
the podcasters decision. The

298
00:22:06,450 --> 00:22:10,380
podcaster can still make that
decision if they want to. But

299
00:22:10,380 --> 00:22:14,250
they probably don't want to. You
know, that's that's a part that

300
00:22:14,250 --> 00:22:19,980
is a personal preference. Like
I'm saying that I'm saying I'm

301
00:22:19,980 --> 00:22:24,390
saying that you there are some
things that should be controlled

302
00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:27,030
from the source. And they're
shown some things that be should

303
00:22:27,030 --> 00:22:32,430
be controlled on the end user.
And I think this is one of those

304
00:22:32,430 --> 00:22:35,910
things that most of the time
should be controlled by the end

305
00:22:35,910 --> 00:22:42,030
user. And once we have a type
parameter, then we can go in and

306
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,650
do this for all for other things
that inevitably will pop up.

307
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:53,640
Adam Curry: So looking at the at
the chapter namespace entry. It

308
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,150
feels like with what you're
saying waypoints may be

309
00:22:57,180 --> 00:23:02,040
misplaced as an optional
attribute, that might be a type

310
00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:06,300
equals waypoint. Instead of it
being an optional attribute

311
00:23:06,330 --> 00:23:09,150
equal to author title, podcast
name, etc.

312
00:23:10,110 --> 00:23:10,890
Dave Jones: Say that again.

313
00:23:12,690 --> 00:23:17,220
Adam Curry: So you look at the
chapter object. And I'm just

314
00:23:17,220 --> 00:23:23,460
taking it very literal. So the
chapter object has a start time

315
00:23:23,490 --> 00:23:30,600
and has a title, optional image
URL, table of contents, and time

316
00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:36,540
and location. So location feels
to me like if you're going to do

317
00:23:36,540 --> 00:23:41,880
a type equals, that should be
one of the types instead of a, I

318
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,910
don't know if anyone has
implemented it as, as an

319
00:23:44,910 --> 00:23:48,750
optional attribute? I'm not
sure. Good question. But it

320
00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:52,710
seems like you know, because
that could be something that if

321
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:56,430
it's a location, and I'm looking
at the interface, not the Table

322
00:23:56,430 --> 00:23:59,940
of Contents, the interface
they've made, it may pop up and

323
00:23:59,940 --> 00:24:04,530
show me a map with that actual
location, or, you know, show me

324
00:24:04,530 --> 00:24:07,980
distance to that location or any
of these different things, but

325
00:24:07,980 --> 00:24:14,700
that are linked back. So that to
me would be an X excellent use

326
00:24:14,730 --> 00:24:17,730
of type equals location.

327
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:21,480
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
That's this. That's a good

328
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:24,270
that's a good one that then that
that is probably a good thing to

329
00:24:24,270 --> 00:24:26,790
ask. We need a pole.

330
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:31,950
Adam Curry: Oh, God. Oh, no, we
know it was me. I'm Paul.

331
00:24:32,850 --> 00:24:38,100
Dave Jones: We need we need to
know if any ad developers have

332
00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:41,850
any bad developers are using the
location spec in there. I

333
00:24:41,850 --> 00:24:46,590
suspect that they are not just
ever seen it.

334
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,890
Adam Curry: But also I can
imagine where you would have a

335
00:24:49,890 --> 00:24:55,080
table of contents, but you might
actually have in between two

336
00:24:55,110 --> 00:25:00,210
markers, visible and thus
clickable and navigatable. In

337
00:25:00,210 --> 00:25:03,360
the table of contents, you might
have 20 images in between the

338
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:07,320
just flipped real fast. I mean,
yeah, you might you might have

339
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,220
video I mean, let's why not

340
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,950
Dave Jones: have like a flipbook
the why not?

341
00:25:14,850 --> 00:25:20,550
Adam Curry: Yeah, have a stick
figure going, hey rotoscope

342
00:25:20,550 --> 00:25:25,800
rotoscope red is hope. Yeah.
And, and I really like this

343
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,910
because we've and again to me, I
learned so much from this

344
00:25:29,910 --> 00:25:33,000
exercise and thank you all for
your passionate feedback,

345
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,750
because I really learned how
important that table of contents

346
00:25:36,750 --> 00:25:43,530
is for a lot of people. But I'm,
I'm more like you. Were I as I

347
00:25:43,530 --> 00:25:45,960
said, I kind of use a heavy Pat
Oh, who boosted? And who would

348
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,860
they have to say? But there's
that can be all kinds of

349
00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:54,600
information in that that is an
entirely new dimension. Now I

350
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,210
know. And I don't even have to
look at the chat room to see

351
00:25:57,210 --> 00:26:00,840
Daniel J. Lewis saying this
needs to be in a completely

352
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:06,930
separate thing it has to be, but
I'm what I'm worried about is we

353
00:26:06,930 --> 00:26:10,050
have something that's working,
it's just the interpretation of

354
00:26:10,050 --> 00:26:14,400
what a chapter is, is what we're
hung up on here. I mean, I'm not

355
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,440
hung up on it. But to me,
everybody who uses chapters in

356
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,430
the traditional ID three tag
manner, which included the Table

357
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:29,430
of Contents optional. Boolean,
is using it in a very specific

358
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:34,770
way. And the display in the UI.
That's where all the magic can

359
00:26:34,770 --> 00:26:40,950
happen. And chapters for me, is
it's an exactly what what it

360
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:45,990
says on the package. There's a
title and a timestamp. It

361
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:49,710
doesn't matter. It's any any
content in there should be

362
00:26:49,710 --> 00:26:54,510
valid, not in the table of
contents. Because we know that's

363
00:26:54,510 --> 00:26:57,540
a use case, that's a use case
that you know, we'd be breaking

364
00:26:57,540 --> 00:27:01,080
we we broke people. People got
broken from this.

365
00:27:01,470 --> 00:27:04,530
Dave Jones: They did a lot more
than I thought it was they have

366
00:27:04,530 --> 00:27:08,610
a lot of negative feedback. I
did not anticipate the negative.

367
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:13,050
I did not anticipate the volume
of people that did not like

368
00:27:13,050 --> 00:27:13,560
this.

369
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:17,400
Adam Curry: But I loved that
because it immediately showed me

370
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,030
what was wrong. Within a week of
I went away within days, like

371
00:27:21,060 --> 00:27:26,010
Oh, I see what's wrong. I
immediately pinged Spurlock, I

372
00:27:26,010 --> 00:27:30,270
said, Would you please add TOC
equals false to every single

373
00:27:30,270 --> 00:27:32,130
Bookstagram that you put in the
chapters? And you did that

374
00:27:32,130 --> 00:27:33,810
immediately? It dropped

375
00:27:33,810 --> 00:27:35,940
Dave Jones: the talk? Yeah,
yeah. Dropped the talk.

376
00:27:37,230 --> 00:27:38,580
Adam Curry: Like that dropped
the talk.

377
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,590
Dave Jones: On Daniel, on your,
you know, on Daniels, you know,

378
00:27:46,590 --> 00:27:49,290
he really wants this thing to
hold it to be completely

379
00:27:49,290 --> 00:27:52,500
different. We're not going to
rip the chapter spec out and

380
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:56,700
start from scratch, it would be
so disruptive. Yeah, it's not

381
00:27:56,700 --> 00:28:01,890
it's just not it's not
happening. But I don't think but

382
00:28:01,890 --> 00:28:07,920
that's not incompatible with
what you want. See, like, in the

383
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,180
evolution of chapters into a
font into a file that contains

384
00:28:12,180 --> 00:28:13,590
lots of different things

385
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:16,590
Adam Curry: that is happening.
It's a natural evolution, it's

386
00:28:16,590 --> 00:28:19,650
Dave Jones: here it is, yes, it
is a natural evolution, the only

387
00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:26,400
thing that is the the the that's
what this is doing right now,

388
00:28:26,850 --> 00:28:31,680
what happened is we hit it, we
hit a new use case, we see that

389
00:28:31,980 --> 00:28:36,810
the spec isn't handling this in
an ideal way. So now we're going

390
00:28:36,810 --> 00:28:43,110
to go and add the probe, extend
the spec to make it fit the use

391
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:47,460
case. So that know that
developers don't have to rip and

392
00:28:47,460 --> 00:28:50,730
replace all they had to do is
now go in and tweak their

393
00:28:50,730 --> 00:28:55,290
implementation right for this
new this new town. And I imagine

394
00:28:55,290 --> 00:28:57,480
over to 10 years from now,
there's probably gonna be tons

395
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:02,160
of stuff in the chapters. Yeah,
yes. Yes. Major and calling it a

396
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,360
chapter is it completely
irrelevant? Right, it doesn't

397
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,960
matter what it's called. That's,
that's only in in this document

398
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,410
that no end user ever sees.
Right? So the, you know, the

399
00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:19,200
the. So as far as Daniels
proposal, Dana's proposal is

400
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,910
going to happen. It is happening
as time goes by. But and that's

401
00:29:23,910 --> 00:29:28,260
why, but you can't anticipate
what you need in the future. And

402
00:29:28,260 --> 00:29:31,560
go ahead and put it in now,
because we would have never been

403
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,180
able to anticipate this

404
00:29:33,180 --> 00:29:36,060
Adam Curry: case. Never, never
would have gotten this far. No,

405
00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:36,840
we there's no

406
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,910
Dave Jones: way we would have
known this what happened three

407
00:29:38,910 --> 00:29:42,150
years ago. So you just have to
respond. You just have to

408
00:29:42,150 --> 00:29:46,830
respond to this thing. And I
think the spec is the format of

409
00:29:46,830 --> 00:29:53,100
the file is flexible enough to
handle. I mean, if we do it in a

410
00:29:53,100 --> 00:29:56,730
responsible way, is flexible to
handle tons of stuff.

411
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,280
Adam Curry: Yeah. Which I think
is what Daniel was talking

412
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,090
about, and I can And I can
envision several use cases and

413
00:30:03,090 --> 00:30:08,130
again, brought to you by
messages sponsor messages

414
00:30:08,130 --> 00:30:11,610
scrolling lower thirds. I mean,
this could be an entire new

415
00:30:11,610 --> 00:30:15,450
interface for the people that
pretend they watch podcasts

416
00:30:15,450 --> 00:30:19,860
instead of listen to them might
actually enjoy. You can just

417
00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:22,710
have to have you and me a
picture of you and me animated

418
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:26,160
with headphones on in front of
me. I like like Dame Jennifer

419
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,060
does for animated no agenda. I
mean, you could do all kinds of

420
00:30:30,060 --> 00:30:30,810
stuff with that.

421
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:37,770
Dave Jones: Yeah. And so the
Yeah. So that is the chapters is

422
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,430
it's interesting. I've been
thinking this week. One thing

423
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:48,600
that we've talked a lot about is
super chat. And having a

424
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:54,720
timestamped way of playing back
events that happen in the

425
00:30:54,750 --> 00:31:00,540
podcast, went upon playback upon
later playback. So we're having

426
00:31:00,540 --> 00:31:05,160
a live show right now. People
are boosting, people are talking

427
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:11,370
in the chat room. You know, when
you go to replay that podcast

428
00:31:11,370 --> 00:31:15,090
later, that podcast episode, how
are you going to pull that

429
00:31:15,090 --> 00:31:18,840
information back in so that it
looks like what you know what

430
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,510
YouTube does during during a
live broadcast, when you watch

431
00:31:21,510 --> 00:31:24,600
the replay, right, and you have
the comments coming in the

432
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,380
boosts whatever they call from
chat, the super chats come in.

433
00:31:28,980 --> 00:31:34,500
Like, that's always been the
kind of a dream, a dream and a

434
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:37,680
complicated build out, you know,
you you go back and forth. And

435
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,620
you say, well, maybe we could do
it this way. Maybe we could do

436
00:31:40,620 --> 00:31:46,650
it that way. And this is the
first time I've seen something

437
00:31:46,650 --> 00:31:51,810
that sort of meets that, that go
on, because now what you do is

438
00:31:51,810 --> 00:31:57,060
you take you take it, you can
take this and drop it into a

439
00:31:57,060 --> 00:32:01,560
super chat. And now you are sort
of replaying the events back as

440
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,400
they happen. Totally. You could.
Here's what I'm saying. And this

441
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,210
goes along again with Daniel's
proposal. Now you're using the

442
00:32:09,210 --> 00:32:17,340
chapters file, not as the
podcast app could use it. The

443
00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:22,440
podcast app could use like pod
verse or podcast guru could use

444
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:28,590
the chapters file for displaying
Table of Contents. A replay of a

445
00:32:28,590 --> 00:32:32,970
Super Chat version of this live
show could use it and just

446
00:32:32,970 --> 00:32:36,750
ignore the cont the cloud chat
the table of contents and only

447
00:32:36,750 --> 00:32:41,280
show the boosts you can do. It's
it's sucking out whatever it

448
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,320
needs. And if you make that

449
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,900
Adam Curry: user definable,
that's even more fun.

450
00:32:47,010 --> 00:32:50,220
Dave Jones: Yeah, and then so
here's so let's go further with

451
00:32:50,220 --> 00:32:57,150
this. In order to make that
happen, we could in order to

452
00:32:57,150 --> 00:33:02,760
make that more reliable, what we
could do is I'll also add a UTC

453
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:09,600
timestamp into the boot into
these boosts. So that when the

454
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,470
boost comes into the chapters
file, it comes in with the

455
00:33:13,470 --> 00:33:16,530
original timestamp of when the
boost happened,

456
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:22,890
Adam Curry: I think reflex is
already doing that. It says this

457
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,540
boost was sent six hours 32
minutes after the show was

458
00:33:27,540 --> 00:33:28,200
released.

459
00:33:30,450 --> 00:33:34,140
Dave Jones: Okay, so that if I'm
looking at I'm looking at it

460
00:33:34,140 --> 00:33:40,110
right now. That's what I saw
wrong raw JSON of one of, of one

461
00:33:40,110 --> 00:33:46,200
of our episodes. And there's not
what we need is a property like

462
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:51,750
a ctoc False. What we need is
another property it and this is

463
00:33:51,750 --> 00:33:55,530
just me spitballing Okay, yeah,
yeah, yeah. Yeah, we, if we had

464
00:33:55,530 --> 00:34:00,900
another property that was like
this, like, let's call it

465
00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:07,110
universal time, or you know, UTC
colon, and then a Unix timestamp

466
00:34:07,170 --> 00:34:11,040
of the UTC of the moment that
the boost happened in in real

467
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:17,970
world time. Then, if you had
that, then when you play it

468
00:34:17,970 --> 00:34:23,310
back, you can say okay, the lava
event started at this moment.

469
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,840
And then the boost happened at
this moment and you just do you

470
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,780
just diff the seconds out and
know when to show when to show

471
00:34:30,780 --> 00:34:35,100
it the other than the start
rather than this because the

472
00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:40,290
start time. You may not always
match.

473
00:34:40,770 --> 00:34:43,260
Adam Curry: Right universal
right and and that goes for

474
00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:47,280
shows that are recorded live
before a dead studio audience.

475
00:34:48,030 --> 00:34:52,200
Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. So I
mean, you know, these are these

476
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,220
are all spitball ideas, but this
is the idea. This is. To me.

477
00:34:56,220 --> 00:35:00,210
This shows the power of what's
possible with with doing this So

478
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:03,630
I'm with you. This is fantastic.
I mean, this is the spirit of

479
00:35:03,630 --> 00:35:07,410
what Daniel want. And yes, I
think it's, you know, it's

480
00:35:07,410 --> 00:35:08,910
happening naturally.

481
00:35:13,740 --> 00:35:17,340
Adam Curry: So Daniel says in
the chat room, why separate

482
00:35:17,340 --> 00:35:22,110
booster grams from comments? I
know, I would I want to say

483
00:35:22,110 --> 00:35:27,090
right now, this has nothing to
do with comments. I agree. Cross

484
00:35:27,090 --> 00:35:33,150
app comments is a spec. I
implemented, I publish it. And,

485
00:35:33,450 --> 00:35:39,090
and it's never taken off. For
whatever reason. There's, I

486
00:35:39,090 --> 00:35:42,690
believe there's multiple ways to
do it, not just activity pub,

487
00:35:43,350 --> 00:35:48,210
I'm I'm publishing to activity
pub. It's in most of the app

488
00:35:48,210 --> 00:35:52,590
somewhere, or some of the app
somewhere. And for whatever

489
00:35:52,590 --> 00:35:56,370
reason, it hasn't taken off. I
disagree fundamentally, with

490
00:35:56,370 --> 00:36:00,600
putting comments. These are not
comments, booster, grams are not

491
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,040
comments, they're booster grams.

492
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,700
Dave Jones: Maybe I took his
comment to mean, wash it and

493
00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:08,250
they go not in the chapters
file. But then this other

494
00:36:08,250 --> 00:36:13,890
comments file. There were
comments thing, instead of the

495
00:36:13,890 --> 00:36:21,030
chapters? And that's, that's a
messy answer. But I think that

496
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:26,190
the the issue for now, is that
chapters are something people

497
00:36:26,190 --> 00:36:31,050
use comments or something that
they do that nobody uses. Right?

498
00:36:32,220 --> 00:36:35,520
Adam Curry: Yeah, for whatever
reason, for whatever reason, you

499
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,060
know, it's just it is what it
is. If there's anything, then go

500
00:36:39,060 --> 00:36:39,210
with

501
00:36:39,210 --> 00:36:42,360
Dave Jones: what works, I mean,
like it when people tell you,

502
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,050
you know, you can't make people
use the thing. Now, and when

503
00:36:49,050 --> 00:36:55,470
people, you have to, you have
to, you have to get like skate

504
00:36:55,470 --> 00:36:59,160
to where the puck is, instead
of, you know, trying, instead of

505
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:05,640
trying to always go for the
goal, I mean, for your idea of

506
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,350
what the goal is going to be.
Ideally, ideally, all of these

507
00:37:10,350 --> 00:37:15,480
things would be distinct streams
of data that are coming in and

508
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:21,120
accessible at any period of
time. But the podcast apps, I

509
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,700
mean, it's a struggle just to
get the podcast apps to support

510
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:28,290
chapters, that we have a good
batch of apps that do support

511
00:37:28,290 --> 00:37:29,430
chapters, that

512
00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:32,430
Adam Curry: almost every single
one supports them. This point,

513
00:37:32,430 --> 00:37:35,580
oh, yeah, this is what's so
beautiful about it. It's an E,

514
00:37:35,580 --> 00:37:39,240
it's easy. And, and that's what
I that was what was so powerful

515
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:44,100
to me, is without the app
developers doing a single thing,

516
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:45,780
we made it worse.

517
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,500
Dave Jones: They got it, they
got they got a they lost a star

518
00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:53,070
for free.

519
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,370
Adam Curry: It was, you know, it
was it reminded me of one of the

520
00:37:56,370 --> 00:38:01,890
biggest complaints that I hear
that I find so sad, is people

521
00:38:01,890 --> 00:38:05,100
say to me, you know, I tried
that to fill in the blank app

522
00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:08,280
out there. And it gave me an ad
before the show that I was

523
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,060
listening to. Yeah, you know,
and so the apps get blamed for

524
00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:17,580
these things. And, and, of
course, in this case, it has

525
00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:20,370
nothing to do with the app, it
has to do with you know, with a

526
00:38:20,580 --> 00:38:24,600
with a hacking away, but a
completely valid hack. But I

527
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:31,080
pissed off my audience. And I
And of course, I think in

528
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,230
general people, you know, the
apps got blamed in an odd way,

529
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:37,800
even though most people who
complained understand that,

530
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,940
like, you know, whatever it is,
this sucks. But, but but I

531
00:38:41,940 --> 00:38:45,570
really, really evaluated what
was going on. And I we don't

532
00:38:45,570 --> 00:38:49,710
have to hash over it again. But
I think this is this is an

533
00:38:49,740 --> 00:38:54,900
excellent idea. The quick fix
for everybody is to see equals

534
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:59,490
false is now being published.
And I say that with the utmost

535
00:38:59,490 --> 00:39:01,980
respect, because I'm not a
developer, and I know you have

536
00:39:01,980 --> 00:39:04,500
to publish a new version.
There's all kinds of stuff that

537
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:08,310
goes on with that. There's not
It's not like, you know, presto,

538
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:11,190
it's done. It's fixed for
everybody. No, yeah, it's a

539
00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:15,960
pain, it's definitely a pain. So
perhaps we can we can add to

540
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:22,110
this the, you know, get an all
in one, go and start with the

541
00:39:22,110 --> 00:39:26,310
type equals as an addition to
the spec. So we can at least put

542
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:29,310
a couple of things in there. So
booster ground would be one

543
00:39:29,310 --> 00:39:33,000
location would be another so
that we can at least start to

544
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:38,670
build out our list of things
that can then be parsed out and

545
00:39:38,910 --> 00:39:44,100
the app can either decide to let
the probably let let the user

546
00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:47,970
decide what they want to see or
determine how they want to show

547
00:39:47,970 --> 00:39:49,770
it. You know, it'd be easier if
like, Oh, this is a booster

548
00:39:49,770 --> 00:39:53,280
gram. I think it's cool. If in
my app, it shows up this way.

549
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,870
Whatever that may be. But I
think we can really build this

550
00:39:57,870 --> 00:40:01,260
out so chapters to me is just
you know, The table of contents

551
00:40:01,260 --> 00:40:07,800
is clear it's defined the what a
chapter marker is is blue skies.

552
00:40:08,580 --> 00:40:12,330
Dave Jones: But yeah, that's it.
Reading from rules for standards

553
00:40:12,330 --> 00:40:15,750
makers remember which is the
develop the developmental bible

554
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:20,430
of podcasting 2.0. If pressed if
practice deviates from the spec,

555
00:40:20,460 --> 00:40:24,660
change the spec in writing the
spec for RSS oh point nine one,

556
00:40:24,690 --> 00:40:27,630
I found that a lot of the limits
imposed by the earlier spec were

557
00:40:27,630 --> 00:40:31,260
being ignored by developers. So
I left those limits out of the

558
00:40:31,260 --> 00:40:35,550
point 191 spec, nobody
complained. Right? That that's

559
00:40:35,580 --> 00:40:39,120
that's the thing. You can't
force developers to do anything.

560
00:40:39,390 --> 00:40:44,640
You have to watch what they do.
And then adapt your desires to

561
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,050
meet the reality of what they
are doing. The defense is wrong.

562
00:40:52,290 --> 00:40:59,040
Thanks. Like Rand Drescher. You
got like a completely wrong the

563
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:00,690
defense he's wrong.

564
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:10,500
Adam Curry: Wrong. That's that's
what's your face from? Ticking,

565
00:41:10,500 --> 00:41:15,210
ticking, ticking my cousin
Vinnie. Yeah, okay. Marissa,

566
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:21,510
Marissa Tomi. So, so, to me
that, like, we learned a big

567
00:41:21,510 --> 00:41:26,760
thing. I'm incredibly happy, we
learned this. I love that

568
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,080
everybody gave such Animated
Feedback. And to me, I think

569
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,200
this is a much bigger turning
point than we all realize,

570
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,640
because we have the framework.
Now we can expand that. And, and

571
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,060
the sky is the limit. And I'm
going to revisit Daniel J's

572
00:41:42,060 --> 00:41:46,200
proposal for all the other stuff
that's in there. That can become

573
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:51,690
a type A type of Chapter object.
With the quick fix being

574
00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:54,570
respected, toc equals false.

575
00:41:55,950 --> 00:41:58,380
Dave Jones: Yeah. And that's and
that, that should be in there

576
00:41:58,380 --> 00:42:02,220
anyway. I mean, that kind of
that. That's, you know, that

577
00:42:02,220 --> 00:42:06,030
should is a dirty word. So I try
not to say that, but that I

578
00:42:06,030 --> 00:42:08,580
mean, if you it is part of the
spec, and has been there since

579
00:42:08,580 --> 00:42:12,570
the beginning. So it, it is a
good idea. I won't say should it

580
00:42:12,570 --> 00:42:17,280
is a good idea to follow the
full spec and support TOC.

581
00:42:17,970 --> 00:42:20,160
Adam Curry: Right? And we and we
know that this can happen

582
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,040
because we went through a couple
of weeks of everyone upping

583
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,030
their game on to V's same thing,
you know, people are sending

584
00:42:27,030 --> 00:42:30,150
basic info, not everyone. And we
have that lovely grid that

585
00:42:30,180 --> 00:42:34,800
Spurlock put together. So
there's, you know, there's a lot

586
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,340
of unfortunately, a lot of work
to be done. But you know, we all

587
00:42:38,340 --> 00:42:43,980
get up to speed. Man, we're
really, we're really good

588
00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:45,420
cooking with gas, as you would
say.

589
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,880
Dave Jones: Yeah, I think it's I
think this has been a learned

590
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,910
this has been a great learning
experience, because we we don't

591
00:42:53,910 --> 00:43:02,010
know what all can happen. Here.
This is like I said, while good.

592
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:08,820
This is a thing I was not
prepared for to see. Then I saw

593
00:43:08,820 --> 00:43:12,990
it. And I loved it. Then saw
that other people hated it. And

594
00:43:12,990 --> 00:43:16,380
the whole thing was just, it was
just vast. It was a fascinating.

595
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,130
Like, experiment.

596
00:43:20,550 --> 00:43:23,520
Adam Curry: Like yes, wonderful.
Yeah, I agree. It was it was

597
00:43:23,550 --> 00:43:27,510
like a real aha moment. Then for
me, as I said, like, wow,

598
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:30,930
people, you really rely on these
chapter markers. That's a huge

599
00:43:30,930 --> 00:43:34,410
deal. Now, I had no idea. I've
always wondered, you know, how

600
00:43:34,410 --> 00:43:38,430
much people care about chapters
will now we know. He's very

601
00:43:38,430 --> 00:43:43,500
passionate, very passionate.
Very, very passionate. So Okay.

602
00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:50,910
Cool. I'd like to move on to
another topic here. For a couple

603
00:43:50,910 --> 00:43:56,430
of reasons. The headline is,
Spotify is changing how it pays

604
00:43:56,430 --> 00:43:59,040
artists with a new streaming
royalty model.

605
00:43:59,670 --> 00:44:02,010
Dave Jones: Oh, I thought you
were going as I thought you were

606
00:44:02,010 --> 00:44:04,800
gonna go to Spotify as
profitable high five.

607
00:44:05,910 --> 00:44:10,260
Adam Curry: Well, I mean, yeah.
Okay. If you take out costs,

608
00:44:10,860 --> 00:44:16,500
payroll taxes, yeah. Okay.
Operational profit. The headline

609
00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:21,810
reads is very cute. But no, if I
really look through all the all

610
00:44:21,810 --> 00:44:26,370
the podcasts Industrial Complex
news from this week, what I'm

611
00:44:26,370 --> 00:44:32,460
seeing is advertising is up, but
it's really only inserted stuff.

612
00:44:32,460 --> 00:44:36,180
And that's like, it's 15% of all
advertising. Ed, what it tells

613
00:44:36,180 --> 00:44:39,210
me is, advertising sucks. Things
are not going well with the

614
00:44:39,210 --> 00:44:43,620
podcast industrial complex, my
personal opinion. And I'm not

615
00:44:43,620 --> 00:44:49,170
sponsored by Spotify. So, to me,
that was actually Paul throt,

616
00:44:49,170 --> 00:44:52,230
who had a pretty good breakdown.
I'll put the link in the show

617
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:55,770
notes. He says this is a very
interesting way of of of

618
00:44:55,770 --> 00:44:56,910
reporting profit.

619
00:44:58,260 --> 00:45:02,400
Dave Jones: Yeah. If we If we
suspend for the moment the idea

620
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,450
that profit is having more money
at the end, then you did all

621
00:45:06,450 --> 00:45:08,820
Adam Curry: your fu paid your
mortgage and all that.

622
00:45:09,420 --> 00:45:11,580
Dave Jones: Yes, yes. If you
take that out for the moment,

623
00:45:11,580 --> 00:45:12,780
then yes, they were profitable.

624
00:45:14,519 --> 00:45:17,039
Adam Curry: Now, of course, you
have to add to that they fired a

625
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:21,449
lot of people that and literally
the, the EC and the CFO were

626
00:45:21,449 --> 00:45:24,149
saying, Well, you know, we
reduced the excess fixed

627
00:45:24,149 --> 00:45:28,229
expenses, which is always
people, and we raised our

628
00:45:28,229 --> 00:45:31,649
monthly rate. Okay, so yeah, so
you got a little bit of a

629
00:45:31,649 --> 00:45:35,489
difference there. But I but just
skipping over that, because it's

630
00:45:35,489 --> 00:45:40,139
more interesting to me, in light
of remote item and value for

631
00:45:40,139 --> 00:45:44,699
value music shows, which I want
to talk about for a second. So

632
00:45:44,699 --> 00:45:48,599
this, and billboard kind of put
a negative spin on it, but it's

633
00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:51,029
easy to see the negative spin,
I'll just read the opening

634
00:45:51,029 --> 00:45:54,239
paragraph. Spotify is changing
how it pays artists new

635
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:58,439
streaming royalty model, a new
threshold of minimum annual

636
00:45:58,439 --> 00:46:01,769
streams that attract must meet
before it starts to generate

637
00:46:01,769 --> 00:46:06,539
royalties, the threshold,
according to en BW, I don't know

638
00:46:06,539 --> 00:46:09,329
what that is, Will music
business worldwide Thank you

639
00:46:10,259 --> 00:46:15,269
will D monetize tracks that had
previously received 0.5% of

640
00:46:15,269 --> 00:46:19,619
Spotify is royalty pool, which I
can only imagine is a very large

641
00:46:19,619 --> 00:46:23,099
amount of people who are just
putting stuff up there and

642
00:46:23,099 --> 00:46:26,669
hoping that something happens
from financial penalties for

643
00:46:26,669 --> 00:46:29,909
music distributors and labels
when fraudulent activity on

644
00:46:29,909 --> 00:46:33,419
tracks when they have uploaded
to Spotify has been detected. So

645
00:46:33,689 --> 00:46:36,419
they are now admitting that
they're scamming going on

646
00:46:36,419 --> 00:46:41,039
surprised as gambling going on
there. And a minimum play time

647
00:46:41,039 --> 00:46:44,699
length that non music noise
tracks such as bird sounds, or

648
00:46:44,699 --> 00:46:49,679
white noise must reach to
generate royalties. So I asked.

649
00:46:50,909 --> 00:46:54,779
I asked Julie Costello to
respond to have a quick text

650
00:46:54,779 --> 00:46:58,019
from her. This is my trick with
her, I send a question on text

651
00:46:58,019 --> 00:47:04,769
message. So she's limited. The
thumbs. So they've been talking

652
00:47:04,769 --> 00:47:07,349
about this for some time.
Theoretically, this would help

653
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:11,099
artists like Aynsley, quote, a
professionally aspiring artist

654
00:47:11,339 --> 00:47:15,179
who gets lost in the 100,000
tracks a day noise. I really

655
00:47:15,179 --> 00:47:18,089
can't give an opinion until it's
in play interpretation. I

656
00:47:18,089 --> 00:47:20,549
believe it when I see it,
they've been talking about

657
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:23,969
artists first for years. Yeah,
the music business has always

658
00:47:23,969 --> 00:47:27,209
talked about artists first. But
we have not experienced any

659
00:47:27,209 --> 00:47:30,149
artists first relationship with
either distributors or Apple

660
00:47:30,149 --> 00:47:33,179
music players, the label still
holds the purse strings. So they

661
00:47:33,179 --> 00:47:36,059
get the attention without a deal
or label, we won't get noticed.

662
00:47:36,059 --> 00:47:41,609
And I think that's true. And
this plays right into the, I

663
00:47:41,609 --> 00:47:44,999
think the opportunity that has
just been exploding of value for

664
00:47:44,999 --> 00:47:51,299
value music in podcasts, which
you can call a music show or

665
00:47:51,299 --> 00:47:54,089
whatever you want to call it.
The other day, I just, I played

666
00:47:54,089 --> 00:47:58,469
one track in encouraging the
keeper, we've played a track

667
00:47:58,469 --> 00:48:05,219
before. And RSS blue is the
first out of the gate to include

668
00:48:05,219 --> 00:48:10,199
this in their hosting service.
And I was I was hoping that I

669
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:13,859
know that there was an interview
done that Sam did for podcasts

670
00:48:13,859 --> 00:48:16,529
weekly review, but for whatever
reason, it didn't make it into

671
00:48:16,529 --> 00:48:20,339
the show. But Dobby Das is
announcing it today. So I want

672
00:48:20,339 --> 00:48:23,309
to make sure that we help him.
And I'm going to start sending

673
00:48:23,309 --> 00:48:29,369
music over there. I went through
a demo account. And it's a very

674
00:48:29,369 --> 00:48:32,309
it's a very cool way to have you
seen it was a very cool way that

675
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:37,979
he did on this not saying yeah,
so he was second when there's

676
00:48:37,979 --> 00:48:45,569
actually a link. So the way he's
he's done this is he has the

677
00:48:45,569 --> 00:48:51,539
music lookup, which is very
similar to what Steven B did

678
00:48:51,539 --> 00:48:55,169
with split kit. He has the music
lookup so you can look for an

679
00:48:55,169 --> 00:49:00,419
artist you can then tag him book
okay, this is this is either

680
00:49:00,449 --> 00:49:03,089
before you make the show or
after you've recorded the show

681
00:49:03,089 --> 00:49:06,119
either way doesn't matter if you
do it before you do the show is

682
00:49:06,119 --> 00:49:11,459
very similar where you get a you
can download all the tracks it

683
00:49:11,459 --> 00:49:14,009
zips it up for you so you can
download them and then put them

684
00:49:14,009 --> 00:49:17,669
into your show. And the way he's
done the interface for adding

685
00:49:17,669 --> 00:49:20,999
the value time splits aka the
magic wallet switching

686
00:49:20,999 --> 00:49:24,149
technology is through the
chapters files, surprise,

687
00:49:24,149 --> 00:49:29,969
surprise, just just to make
things more interesting. So you

688
00:49:29,969 --> 00:49:35,579
so you download the chapter file
a JSON, which then has all of

689
00:49:35,579 --> 00:49:40,229
those tracks inserted, and then
you upload and I may be saying

690
00:49:40,229 --> 00:49:44,039
this wrong for the flow. But
basically, you can upload your

691
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:48,419
chapter file which will include
all the VTS time splits in there

692
00:49:48,449 --> 00:49:51,749
and you can add it to an
existing chapter file. So if you

693
00:49:51,749 --> 00:49:53,849
know that does it doesn't mean
it has to dominate your

694
00:49:53,849 --> 00:50:00,449
chapters. And then you manually
enter the time to start Time,

695
00:50:00,659 --> 00:50:06,419
and I think the end time of each
song. And then you publish, and

696
00:50:06,419 --> 00:50:10,589
it has the value TimeSlips baked
right into your feed. Yeah,

697
00:50:10,859 --> 00:50:12,839
there's no, there's no step six.

698
00:50:17,369 --> 00:50:20,909
Dave Jones: Oh, okay. That's,
that's an interesting way to do

699
00:50:20,909 --> 00:50:21,179
it.

700
00:50:21,899 --> 00:50:24,419
Adam Curry: Well, I liked it,
because chapters are familiar.

701
00:50:26,159 --> 00:50:30,059
You know, are familiar for two,
basically, you're uploading a

702
00:50:30,059 --> 00:50:33,449
chapter file, which has been
semi created for you. And then

703
00:50:33,449 --> 00:50:37,169
you can add to that, or do
whatever you want. And then you

704
00:50:37,169 --> 00:50:43,739
just have to hit the time codes.
Yeah. So it's in a process that

705
00:50:43,739 --> 00:50:48,389
his customers already understand
with the chapter file just now

706
00:50:48,389 --> 00:50:50,789
with the addition of music and
setting the timecode.

707
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:54,960
Dave Jones: Okay, so that that
just makes it Where are they?

708
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,290
It's not a new thing to learn
for them. They already kind of

709
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,420
Yeah, exactly. Already. Exactly.

710
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,600
Adam Curry: Exactly. And I'm
going to be sending people over

711
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,380
as of today, because I got
deejays banging on my door, who

712
00:51:07,380 --> 00:51:10,770
already have produced shows and
they're ready to go. And I told

713
00:51:10,770 --> 00:51:16,710
them, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait. Halt? Yes. So

714
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:20,520
I think that's dynamite. And in
general, what and of course,

715
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:25,230
he's very nimble, because you
know, smaller Adobe Das is doing

716
00:51:25,230 --> 00:51:27,960
is he just knocking it out of
the park? Man is fantastic. The

717
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:28,710
stuff he's doing

718
00:51:29,850 --> 00:51:33,720
Dave Jones: this? That's it?
Yeah, this this is I'm sorry, he

719
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:37,170
Adam Curry: just he just boosted
n times for value times points

720
00:51:37,170 --> 00:51:39,630
are calculated based on audio
duration. Okay. So you're gonna

721
00:51:39,630 --> 00:51:41,430
have to do the start time it
does the end time

722
00:51:42,330 --> 00:51:44,880
Dave Jones: automatically pulls
it pulls that information from

723
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:44,970
it.

724
00:51:45,870 --> 00:51:48,630
Adam Curry: Exactly, exactly.
And it does, you know, in the

725
00:51:48,630 --> 00:51:52,230
chapters, you have nice little
Albemarle, the link to the

726
00:51:52,260 --> 00:51:57,810
whatever is in the link of the
of the value time split. And as

727
00:51:57,810 --> 00:52:02,520
I said, you can add it Oh, yeah,
you can set the value the share

728
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:09,630
value. Just like just like the
big boys do it. It's it. Yeah.

729
00:52:09,870 --> 00:52:13,680
And you can add one, basically,
you can edit the chapters, and

730
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,680
you could set that in yourself.
You know?

731
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,030
Dave Jones: So where's the I
guess the lookup is using the is

732
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:22,440
using us? I guess?

733
00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:26,580
Adam Curry: Yeah, I think so. He
has a song lookup. I don't know

734
00:52:26,580 --> 00:52:27,000
if he's

735
00:52:27,330 --> 00:52:28,170
Dave Jones: on dates or
something?

736
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,890
Adam Curry: No, I think he's
either. Well, he's gonna, he's

737
00:52:31,890 --> 00:52:33,870
gonna boost the grandmas in a
minute and tell us he's either

738
00:52:33,870 --> 00:52:40,710
using directly from the API or
maybe, maybe he's doing maybe

739
00:52:40,710 --> 00:52:43,890
he's getting a copy and doing
some more local for quicker

740
00:52:43,890 --> 00:52:47,760
lookup? I don't know. Okay,
thank you, by the way, Steven

741
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:52,770
Bell. In the split kit, he has
now made it so that you can

742
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,970
quickly peruse through all the
most recently added reverse

743
00:52:56,970 --> 00:53:01,200
chronological order songs. So I
don't have to go to five

744
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,480
different places to try and find
everything.

745
00:53:04,140 --> 00:53:06,360
Dave Jones: What do you mean,
are you talking about across all

746
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:07,800
a split kit or just you.

747
00:53:08,250 --> 00:53:12,600
Adam Curry: So he queries the
index. So also, if it was added

748
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,250
from wave lake, or added from,
from music side project, or

749
00:53:17,250 --> 00:53:20,970
someone doing if it's in the
index, it's now immediately

750
00:53:20,970 --> 00:53:25,200
available in the split kit for
my workflow. So my workflow is I

751
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,470
want to I want to check all the
new songs that come in. So I

752
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:30,660
have to go to all these
different places to find the new

753
00:53:30,660 --> 00:53:33,600
songs. Now. There's one place
for me it's a split kit. I've

754
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,450
been there and the most recent
additions are at the top.

755
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:40,920
Dave Jones: Oh, I see. So he's
Yeah, so he's looking at that's,

756
00:53:41,130 --> 00:53:46,320
that's probably why he wanted to
filter on recently added music

757
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:46,830
shows.

758
00:53:46,860 --> 00:53:49,710
Adam Curry: Here's Dolby das
paying us to give us answers.

759
00:53:50,430 --> 00:53:54,060
5000 SATs again, I have a local
copy of the DB to enable fuzzy

760
00:53:54,060 --> 00:53:57,600
search. I also resolve fountain
and pod verse track links, if

761
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,170
that's how DJs find their music.
There you go.

762
00:54:01,740 --> 00:54:06,360
Dave Jones: Low beautiful view
of the DB. Yeah. The local copy.

763
00:54:06,509 --> 00:54:09,659
Adam Curry: Yes. dB R dB, I
guess.

764
00:54:10,110 --> 00:54:12,450
Dave Jones: Is that Yeah, that
must be the weekly download. And

765
00:54:12,450 --> 00:54:15,060
so then he's he's making a fuzzy

766
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:17,700
Adam Curry: and he may he may be
doing he may be checking

767
00:54:17,730 --> 00:54:19,110
periodically to update.

768
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:24,750
Dave Jones: That's, I love that.
Okay. So I love that people love

769
00:54:24,750 --> 00:54:28,050
it when people grab the database
and do their own thing. Yeah,

770
00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:32,070
it's more. It's more
decentralized than everybody

771
00:54:32,070 --> 00:54:35,160
just simply pointing to us.
Which which I don't mind people

772
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,500
using us as well. We It was
while we're here while we exist,

773
00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:40,800
but it is very cool to see
people just grabbing the

774
00:54:41,340 --> 00:54:45,990
database and running their own
thing. Yes, exactly. That's a

775
00:54:45,990 --> 00:54:47,010
great thing to see.

776
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:52,080
Adam Curry: I'm so tickled by
all of this. I really am. It's

777
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:53,010
fantastic.

778
00:54:54,270 --> 00:54:56,070
Dave Jones: Yeah, they're good.
They're gonna there's gonna be

779
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:01,500
there's there's gonna be a lot
of people For that, that just

780
00:55:01,530 --> 00:55:04,320
stopped making any money at all
once pot Spotify puts those

781
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:04,950
things in.

782
00:55:06,180 --> 00:55:08,640
Adam Curry: Well, people already
aren't making any money. I mean,

783
00:55:09,150 --> 00:55:11,520
if they're spending money five
bucks,

784
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,650
Dave Jones: they didn't now
they're gonna get zero. Yes.

785
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,970
Adam Curry: So here's a question
that neither of us are really

786
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,300
well, you're more qualified than
I am. To answer, but this is one

787
00:55:21,300 --> 00:55:24,570
that I've detected out there.
And it's part of this is part of

788
00:55:24,570 --> 00:55:31,050
remote item. And, and I'm not,
I'm not quite sure, let me see

789
00:55:31,050 --> 00:55:35,070
if I can frame the issue. Okay,
first, I want to thank Mike

790
00:55:35,070 --> 00:55:40,980
Newman profusely, because the
automatic submission from wav

791
00:55:40,980 --> 00:55:45,990
lake to the podcast index
appears to be Mike Newman. Yes.

792
00:55:47,610 --> 00:55:48,780
I had no idea.

793
00:55:50,190 --> 00:55:53,040
Dave Jones: I saw I saw him in
their release notes, though, we

794
00:55:54,900 --> 00:55:59,460
Adam Curry: did a pull request
that Mike Newman showed up. So

795
00:55:59,460 --> 00:56:02,670
artists, if you know if Mike
Newman is not has not added you,

796
00:56:02,670 --> 00:56:05,730
you may not show up in my
workflow. I may not be aware of

797
00:56:05,730 --> 00:56:09,360
your music and therefore may not
be able to put it into my shows.

798
00:56:09,570 --> 00:56:11,790
Dave Jones: You may want to
boost him so that he knows that

799
00:56:11,790 --> 00:56:12,990
you exist. Yes,

800
00:56:13,020 --> 00:56:15,630
Adam Curry: yes. And that seems
like something that hopefully

801
00:56:15,630 --> 00:56:17,580
wavelike would just do on their
own accord.

802
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,010
Dave Jones: He's He's the distro
kid of podcasts.

803
00:56:20,790 --> 00:56:23,940
Adam Curry: That's a horrible
thing to call anybody. You don't

804
00:56:23,940 --> 00:56:27,570
want to be a distro kid of back,
Mike, I take it back. So I've

805
00:56:27,570 --> 00:56:30,300
been thinking and because
there's this, this this

806
00:56:30,300 --> 00:56:36,270
conversation of. And I think
it's a lack of understanding of

807
00:56:36,270 --> 00:56:40,830
RSS in general, because artists
are coming to the project and

808
00:56:40,830 --> 00:56:46,200
saying, Well, considering how I
put I need different splits for

809
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,460
different songs should I have?
And this is only because they

810
00:56:50,460 --> 00:56:54,690
have poor interfaces and don't
have per item. Value block

811
00:56:54,690 --> 00:56:57,870
splits on wavelike as an
example, or, you know, just a

812
00:56:57,870 --> 00:56:59,280
general lack of understanding

813
00:56:59,970 --> 00:57:01,380
Dave Jones: per fee per feed me?

814
00:57:01,950 --> 00:57:02,460
Adam Curry: Well,

815
00:57:02,700 --> 00:57:04,980
Dave Jones: wavelength has
split, they do have per item.

816
00:57:05,100 --> 00:57:06,750
They don't have splits per feed.

817
00:57:07,980 --> 00:57:09,270
Adam Curry: So no wavelike

818
00:57:10,350 --> 00:57:12,240
Dave Jones: they don't have
value blogs in the feed. They

819
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:13,650
have them only in the item.

820
00:57:16,350 --> 00:57:17,490
Adam Curry: Are you sure about
that?

821
00:57:18,540 --> 00:57:21,060
Dave Jones: Yeah, they don't
they don't put value blogs at

822
00:57:21,060 --> 00:57:23,550
the channel level. They only put
them at the episode level.

823
00:57:23,910 --> 00:57:29,010
Adam Curry: Okay, but I thought
it was exactly the opposite.

824
00:57:30,180 --> 00:57:31,380
Maybe I'm crazy.

825
00:57:32,009 --> 00:57:35,249
Dave Jones: That's That's why
their feeds don't show. That's

826
00:57:35,249 --> 00:57:40,649
why their feeds don't show up.
When under the new value enable

827
00:57:40,649 --> 00:57:47,249
feeds API endpoint because they
only value blog, the episode or

828
00:57:47,249 --> 00:57:50,189
the track. They don't value
blog, the feed itself.

829
00:57:50,970 --> 00:57:56,700
Adam Curry: It's all as part of
the same problem. At any rate,

830
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:04,950
the question is, how should
music be assembled? How should

831
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:09,630
it be? How should it be
connected to an artist and how

832
00:58:09,630 --> 00:58:13,860
should be connected to the
participants of each individual

833
00:58:13,860 --> 00:58:21,000
track? And there's valid reasons
to have a feed level volume.

834
00:58:21,300 --> 00:58:25,410
Well, if item level overrides
feed level, which is it does

835
00:58:25,410 --> 00:58:31,470
right item overrides feed level
i Okay.

836
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,340
Dave Jones: What's one of the
what's the problem? Okay.

837
00:58:36,089 --> 00:58:37,649
Adam Curry: Here's what I'm
here's what I'm trying to figure

838
00:58:37,649 --> 00:58:41,789
out. Okay. The way I see this
moving forward, what I think

839
00:58:41,789 --> 00:58:45,989
should happen is Ainsley
Costello just just use her to

840
00:58:45,989 --> 00:58:51,749
make it simple, should have an
Ainsley Costello RSS feed. And

841
00:58:51,749 --> 00:58:58,739
that RSS feed should I believe,
have remote items that point to

842
00:58:58,889 --> 00:59:05,309
feeds that either are an album
or perhaps even single tracks

843
00:59:05,309 --> 00:59:09,269
that if she has participated on
someone else's music, but she

844
00:59:09,269 --> 00:59:13,019
has a split in that, then she
should be able to put that

845
00:59:13,019 --> 00:59:16,469
remote item into her personal
feed, because I want to

846
00:59:16,469 --> 00:59:23,219
subscribe to Ainsley Costello
the artist. Yes, so that when

847
00:59:23,249 --> 00:59:27,389
when she releases something, or
does a collaboration with

848
00:59:27,389 --> 00:59:31,109
someone else, that that can
automatically flow through to

849
00:59:31,109 --> 00:59:35,159
her feed that that will autumn
it's not happening anywhere yet.

850
00:59:35,159 --> 00:59:39,689
So this is just me. spitballing
as usual. Sure. I'd like to

851
00:59:39,689 --> 00:59:44,519
subscribe to her in an app. And
then and then I'll see okay,

852
00:59:44,519 --> 00:59:51,209
here's this album or collection
that has five songs in it. And

853
00:59:51,209 --> 00:59:55,019
that shows up as a remote item
because those splits may have to

854
00:59:55,019 --> 00:59:58,349
change some somewhere down the
line for recruitments etc. So I

855
00:59:58,349 --> 01:00:02,549
just want to get the most Recent
validate information. But also,

856
01:00:03,029 --> 01:00:05,549
I think this is where it's
important. If she participated

857
01:00:05,549 --> 01:00:10,439
on a SAM means track, then I
want to see that show up in her

858
01:00:10,469 --> 01:00:15,749
feed. Yeah. But then it has to
bring in the SAM means track

859
01:00:15,779 --> 01:00:20,159
value block and album art, etc.
is is is that the right way to

860
01:00:20,159 --> 01:00:21,239
think of these things?

861
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:26,430
Dave Jones: No, I think that is
I think that's a good, I think

862
01:00:26,430 --> 01:00:29,550
it's a really good idea. Because
you. So here's, here's how I

863
01:00:29,550 --> 01:00:33,570
could see that happening, you
would have, you know, for lack

864
01:00:33,570 --> 01:00:40,650
of a better term since aesthetic
feed me in in that I tend to use

865
01:00:40,650 --> 01:00:45,270
that term to mean, a feed that
just has content from other

866
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:45,960
feeds in

867
01:00:46,110 --> 01:00:49,620
Adam Curry: Yes. Like an OPML
file. Oh, no, we're there again,

868
01:00:49,620 --> 01:00:51,210
hello, Freedom controller.

869
01:00:52,260 --> 01:00:56,730
Dave Jones: So the feed is like,
yeah, there's this synthetic

870
01:00:56,730 --> 01:01:01,410
feed, which the most, the
biggest use of this concept is

871
01:01:01,620 --> 01:01:07,230
sermon audio.com. So you have
all these sermons being posted

872
01:01:07,230 --> 01:01:11,550
all the time, under their
initial source, which would be

873
01:01:11,550 --> 01:01:15,690
the preacher or the church that
where they come from, but then

874
01:01:15,690 --> 01:01:22,230
you also have tons of the sermon
audio podcasts. That's a

875
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:26,400
separate podcast feed, but it's
just called something like

876
01:01:27,690 --> 01:01:33,630
forgiveness. And it's, it's just
got episodes from all across

877
01:01:33,630 --> 01:01:37,470
their catalogue of sermons that
are being posted, that are

878
01:01:37,470 --> 01:01:42,180
tagged with that with that
keyword. And so it's just

879
01:01:42,180 --> 01:01:46,230
pulling in, you've got you've
got the original feed, it came

880
01:01:46,230 --> 01:01:49,920
from over here with that sermon
in it. And now you've got this

881
01:01:49,950 --> 01:01:53,880
forgiveness, synthetic feed
that's also got that same exact

882
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:58,110
sermon in it. And they're
pulling from that. And so like I

883
01:01:58,110 --> 01:02:04,950
had to discuss, like, Todd
posted on the on the mastodon

884
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:09,000
this week. He's like, I'm having
trouble understanding what the

885
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:14,640
point of remote item is, outside
of the context of a value time

886
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:19,140
split. In the concept is exactly

887
01:02:19,140 --> 01:02:20,610
Adam Curry: this. Yeah, it's a
symlink.

888
01:02:22,350 --> 01:02:24,570
Dave Jones: symlink Yeah,
exactly. It's it's an alias an

889
01:02:24,570 --> 01:02:26,760
Adam Curry: alias for those of
you from the Mac world?

890
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:32,460
Dave Jones: Or are a hyperlink
and hyperlink hyperlink? Yeah,

891
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:36,930
it's just saying, hey, there's a
thing over here. And rather than

892
01:02:36,930 --> 01:02:42,930
me recreating it in it's good,
just go get it from the original

893
01:02:42,930 --> 01:02:46,770
source. You're telling you that
way. You don't have to worry

894
01:02:46,770 --> 01:02:51,090
about the metadata going stale
or getting screwed up? Right. So

895
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,690
that's, that's the concept here.
So you would have the word to

896
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,290
envision what you're saying? I
was, I would say see there being

897
01:02:58,290 --> 01:03:02,280
an Ainsley Costello Oh, FPP set
a CNAME Yes. CNAME

898
01:03:03,510 --> 01:03:06,630
Adam Curry: name is another good
one. Yeah. So

899
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,380
Dave Jones: honestly, we could
have we could have called that

900
01:03:10,410 --> 01:03:11,100
the attribute. Well,

901
01:03:11,100 --> 01:03:12,750
Adam Curry: you know, what it
is, what this tells me is we're

902
01:03:12,750 --> 01:03:15,690
on the right track because all
these versions of it exist in

903
01:03:15,690 --> 01:03:18,510
the computing world. So we're on
the right track with this idea.

904
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,440
Dave Jones: The company computer
science name for all of this is

905
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:24,330
is an indirect reference.

906
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:28,350
Adam Curry: And and I have to
correct myself the remote item

907
01:03:28,350 --> 01:03:33,540
was in fact conceived and
birthed by Alex gates. I said

908
01:03:33,540 --> 01:03:38,490
that incorrectly on the on the
mere mortals podcast. Oh, yeah,

909
01:03:38,490 --> 01:03:42,390
my three years I had the genesis
of it wrong. So I apologize.

910
01:03:42,810 --> 01:03:46,200
Great interview by the way, the
you know, Karen's it was good

911
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:48,900
because I had just been in the
car for four hours taking Tina

912
01:03:48,900 --> 01:03:52,230
to the airport and driving back
and I'd traffic and I jammed

913
01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:57,540
down you know, to two water
burgers. And then before I got

914
01:03:57,540 --> 01:04:00,720
in, so we did and I even texted
was like the can't do eight.

915
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,230
Let's do nine. So it was like
930 at night and I was tired. So

916
01:04:04,260 --> 01:04:07,110
then I've just slower. I think
it's better for me.

917
01:04:07,590 --> 01:04:07,860
Dave Jones: It was

918
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:12,300
Adam Curry: it was very, it was
I was dope, man. Yeah, very

919
01:04:12,300 --> 01:04:15,600
chill. Yeah, but it was it was
fun to do. I really enjoy the

920
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:16,680
content. Such a good guy.

921
01:04:18,420 --> 01:04:21,870
Dave Jones: Yeah, it was on Andy
laymen's podcast answers which

922
01:04:21,870 --> 01:04:22,710
I've cued up. I'm

923
01:04:22,710 --> 01:04:26,100
Adam Curry: excited to hear it.
I saw the you know, I saw the

924
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:28,620
sound bites that were being
published. You know, it was like

925
01:04:28,620 --> 01:04:32,970
RSS is the gate breaker the
Gatecrasher I love that. I also

926
01:04:32,970 --> 01:04:35,490
used your big red button the
other day. I use that on no

927
01:04:35,490 --> 01:04:36,060
agenda.

928
01:04:36,510 --> 01:04:40,710
Dave Jones: Oh, nice. Well, the
the the my interview with him

929
01:04:40,710 --> 01:04:43,620
was exactly the opposite of
yours. Mine. Sounded like a

930
01:04:43,620 --> 01:04:47,730
hamster. That was talking. I was
all jazzed up.

931
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,010
Adam Curry: I'm not so sure
about that. You sounded pretty

932
01:04:50,010 --> 01:04:51,450
cool to me. Okay.

933
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:55,500
Dave Jones: Well, that the the
idea here so is that there would

934
01:04:55,500 --> 01:05:00,870
be an Ainsley Costello feed that
just consists of room load items

935
01:05:01,710 --> 01:05:06,210
to her actual feeds, whichever
ones they are, whether it's an

936
01:05:06,210 --> 01:05:09,540
album or a single or whatever,
and can I make it even crazier?

937
01:05:09,990 --> 01:05:14,700
Adam Curry: Please do would so
there would be top level Ainsley

938
01:05:14,700 --> 01:05:19,440
Costello the hustle, beautiful
NZSL feed synthetic feed where

939
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:23,940
you want to call it, boom,
there's an album, go tap on that

940
01:05:23,940 --> 01:05:30,720
there's the tracks. Then from
there, you might be able to see

941
01:05:31,290 --> 01:05:33,960
music from artists, so I might
be able to see Oh, there's the

942
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:39,660
SAM means song. And I can then
hyperlink into SAM means or the

943
01:05:39,660 --> 01:05:43,290
it was as played on booster
Grand Ball. Go into booster

944
01:05:43,290 --> 01:05:46,470
Grand Ball, oh, here's other
tracks and the episode. If you

945
01:05:46,470 --> 01:05:50,040
have like your app, all of a
sudden becomes a media browser.

946
01:05:50,370 --> 01:05:51,240
Whoa.

947
01:05:52,980 --> 01:05:55,320
Dave Jones: I'm gonna I'm gonna
support I'm going to support

948
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:59,190
you. You throw me an alley oop,
I'm going to dunk it. Here it

949
01:05:59,190 --> 01:06:04,170
goes. So starting from the top
down in this feed, and let's

950
01:06:04,170 --> 01:06:07,500
just call this what is it? This
is a defeat as a playlist. Yeah.

951
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:13,350
So it at the top. It is a it is
a medium type music l it's a

952
01:06:13,350 --> 01:06:17,610
play. There you go. There you
go. You and and it's a and at

953
01:06:17,610 --> 01:06:23,910
the channel level. You also have
the person tag with Ainsley in

954
01:06:23,910 --> 01:06:28,020
it. Yeah. With a link to her
stuff. Yeah. And a picture of

955
01:06:28,020 --> 01:06:32,940
her Yeah. Then you have all your
remote items have have links to

956
01:06:32,940 --> 01:06:39,240
her feeds, in her tracks. Then
at the end, you also have a pod

957
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:44,640
roll tag, linking to all the
places that she showed up

958
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:50,820
booster Graham ball. Sam means
all these different plays, and

959
01:06:50,820 --> 01:06:55,320
then a bunch of perhaps,
suggested albums that she likes.

960
01:06:55,320 --> 01:07:00,540
Yes. to recommend to you. Yes.
And that that is the fleshing

961
01:07:00,540 --> 01:07:05,100
out the so what's your vision?
That's what the XML would look

962
01:07:05,100 --> 01:07:05,370
like.

963
01:07:06,450 --> 01:07:07,620
Adam Curry: You know what it is
right?

964
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:10,650
Dave Jones: Share your up email.
Yeah.

965
01:07:13,020 --> 01:07:16,290
Adam Curry: Yes, it is. Share
your OPML always, always OPML at

966
01:07:16,290 --> 01:07:19,140
the end. Are we ever gonna ever
gonna get that done? Are we?

967
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,530
Dave Jones: Well, I mean, CRISPR
I seen has a shirt that says

968
01:07:22,530 --> 01:07:23,610
that on it. It's all up.

969
01:07:25,020 --> 01:07:27,480
Adam Curry: I need that shirt.
That's a great shirt. That's

970
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,060
exactly what I need. Yeah,
that's

971
01:07:30,090 --> 01:07:33,180
Dave Jones: okay. So now that's
beautiful experience is what

972
01:07:33,180 --> 01:07:33,570
that is.

973
01:07:33,900 --> 01:07:37,170
Adam Curry: So the the
challenge, of course, is for

974
01:07:37,770 --> 01:07:43,350
feed creation interface. Which,
right now the top two guys doing

975
01:07:43,350 --> 01:07:47,970
this, in my mind are Steven Bell
and Dolby Das. Yeah, so I'm

976
01:07:47,970 --> 01:07:50,700
excited to see what they come up
with if they liked this idea if

977
01:07:50,700 --> 01:07:54,480
they liked this basic premise,
because the app should just be

978
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:58,980
able to easily adapt to follow
those, you know, follow that

979
01:07:59,010 --> 01:08:04,200
that trail, like a breadcrumb.
Basically, the boom in boom, in

980
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:08,910
boom, in click play, listen was
here. And you're moving around?

981
01:08:08,940 --> 01:08:11,700
Um, you know what that is?
Discovery?

982
01:08:13,620 --> 01:08:18,990
Dave Jones: Yeah, there could
be. There could be apps that do

983
01:08:18,990 --> 01:08:22,620
just this, you know, yeah, it
really could be apps that just

984
01:08:22,620 --> 01:08:23,700
do playlists.

985
01:08:25,290 --> 01:08:26,490
Adam Curry: I just popped a
boner.

986
01:08:34,529 --> 01:08:36,689
metaphor, metaphorical metaphor.

987
01:08:38,790 --> 01:08:40,920
Dave Jones: Please don't make
the show title. metaphorical

988
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:41,190
Boehner.

989
01:08:42,060 --> 01:08:44,100
Adam Curry: No, no, I already
got dropped the talk. I mean,

990
01:08:44,130 --> 01:08:45,450
that's already beautiful.

991
01:08:47,189 --> 01:08:51,869
Dave Jones: Yes. I mean, that
this is this is. This is the

992
01:08:51,869 --> 01:08:55,799
vision. I mean, like I love this
vision. I didn't because that's

993
01:08:55,799 --> 01:08:58,139
how that's how you get
discovery. That's how you get

994
01:08:58,139 --> 01:09:01,859
organic discovery. Yes, people
begin to put recommendations

995
01:09:01,859 --> 01:09:04,259
into things and people not
algorithms and

996
01:09:04,290 --> 01:09:07,110
Adam Curry: people will stick in
their apps. And it's just as you

997
01:09:07,110 --> 01:09:07,440
said,

998
01:09:07,710 --> 01:09:08,580
Dave Jones: put a stick in your

999
01:09:13,859 --> 01:09:18,629
Adam Curry: head. It can change
the entire dynamics of of apps.

1000
01:09:19,259 --> 01:09:21,719
You know, just like you said,
you may just have apps that are

1001
01:09:21,749 --> 01:09:25,199
purely meant to browse through
the RSS space.

1002
01:09:26,100 --> 01:09:32,310
Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah, that's,
to me, one of the most exciting

1003
01:09:32,340 --> 01:09:38,040
tags that has come up is remote
items. Well, I mean, we already

1004
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:42,450
know that. That is a powerful
tag that links thing that's

1005
01:09:42,450 --> 01:09:45,570
glue, that's a glue tag and
links things together. It's

1006
01:09:45,570 --> 01:09:50,370
that's like DNS. Yeah. As far as
a thing that's sort of

1007
01:09:50,370 --> 01:09:56,010
underrated. A feature feature
tag is pod roll. I really want

1008
01:09:56,010 --> 01:10:00,540
to see people start using this.
Yeah, because that is a That's,

1009
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:05,130
that's a recommendation engine
just waiting to happen. Yep,

1010
01:10:05,610 --> 01:10:11,070
totally. I mean, we just need
tools for it. Because, like, I

1011
01:10:11,070 --> 01:10:14,040
hope Buzzsprout Buzzsprout
invented the tag, basically. And

1012
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,400
I hope that they put in
something in their UI. Because

1013
01:10:17,550 --> 01:10:21,630
as soon as soon as they put that
in there, I'm gonna start

1014
01:10:21,930 --> 01:10:26,130
slurping that stuff up and
creating and I will immediately

1015
01:10:26,130 --> 01:10:29,850
create an endpoint called
recommendations. And it's gonna

1016
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:31,110
be nothing but pod rolls.

1017
01:10:31,140 --> 01:10:36,300
Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. That's beautiful.

1018
01:10:37,530 --> 01:10:39,960
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, like,
why not? That's, that's organic

1019
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:42,210
recommendation engine without
algorithms.

1020
01:10:42,929 --> 01:10:43,649
Adam Curry: I love it.

1021
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:56,250
Dave Jones: See, I've got, you
know, I started to ask, started

1022
01:10:56,250 --> 01:10:59,490
to raise the podcasting 2.0 to
threat level alpha,

1023
01:11:00,810 --> 01:11:01,620
Adam Curry: level alpha.

1024
01:11:02,070 --> 01:11:05,220
Dave Jones: What does that mean?
Like, and then I saw what

1025
01:11:05,220 --> 01:11:08,310
YouTube came out with. And I
decided no, it's not it's

1026
01:11:08,310 --> 01:11:11,220
different. There's no threat?
Well, now we're still like,

1027
01:11:11,220 --> 01:11:12,900
we're still at Green.
Everything's green.

1028
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:18,600
Adam Curry: I somehow, it's
like, it's like I'm a crack

1029
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:21,900
addicts. But when I've listened
to the new media show, because

1030
01:11:21,900 --> 01:11:25,290
like, I know, I know, I should
not light up this pipe. I know

1031
01:11:25,290 --> 01:11:27,780
that it's going to make me puke
at the end of this. Hi, I'm

1032
01:11:27,780 --> 01:11:31,440
going to have, but I can't stop
myself from listening to Todd

1033
01:11:31,440 --> 01:11:40,110
and Rob argue about YouTube. Is
so wasted right now, man, like,

1034
01:11:40,140 --> 01:11:43,800
oh, no, I'm getting sick over
this crack, but I can't stop it.

1035
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:49,740
And then another hit. And it was
it was interesting to hear Rob,

1036
01:11:49,740 --> 01:11:55,980
do almost a one ad on YouTube
pretty much flubbed it all. And

1037
01:11:56,580 --> 01:11:59,880
I don't know what's going on.
But my takeaways were the

1038
01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:03,090
following thing that's really
important. And it's something

1039
01:12:03,090 --> 01:12:07,680
we've talked about before, but
podcasting is not all about

1040
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:13,560
making money and a career. And
it's, it's just not. And this

1041
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,470
and I was thinking, you know,
like, first of all, you cannot

1042
01:12:16,470 --> 01:12:19,590
serve two masters. You know,
either you're making a great

1043
01:12:19,590 --> 01:12:24,120
product, and people and you can
monetize that, or you're just

1044
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:26,730
out for money, and you're going
to make a product have to

1045
01:12:26,970 --> 01:12:30,720
reverse into it. This is no
different than blogging, this

1046
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,420
and blogging became micro
blogging became social

1047
01:12:33,420 --> 01:12:41,460
networking, and 99% of all
people oops, sorry, just will

1048
01:12:41,460 --> 01:12:47,310
not make any money on social
media or blogging, or you know,

1049
01:12:47,310 --> 01:12:50,700
and then we went down to the
lowest common denominator, which

1050
01:12:50,700 --> 01:12:55,770
was banner ads, and clickbait
and stuff. And that brought down

1051
01:12:55,770 --> 01:13:01,050
the CPM to me Oh pennies and
this is where podcast

1052
01:13:01,050 --> 01:13:05,190
advertising is headed now that
we have dai and it's just it

1053
01:13:05,190 --> 01:13:07,410
because there's there's
unlimited inventory. So there's

1054
01:13:07,410 --> 01:13:10,980
no scarcity. So it just, you
know, there's beauty You name

1055
01:13:10,980 --> 01:13:13,770
it, how much do you want is not
a problem, it's just going to go

1056
01:13:13,770 --> 01:13:18,750
it's a it's a race to the
bottom. And what value for value

1057
01:13:18,750 --> 01:13:26,520
has done is a couple things.
One, it has given people a

1058
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:31,740
metric for motivational
engagement and then that's very

1059
01:13:31,740 --> 01:13:34,050
Dave Jones: civilizational
engaged it's very specific.

1060
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:39,600
Adam Curry: So knowing looking
at an lb wallet or a hella pad

1061
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:46,080
and seeing people listening in
real time. And seeing feedback

1062
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:53,220
and and value being contributed
irrelevant irrespective of, of

1063
01:13:53,220 --> 01:13:57,420
the amount of money it is, in
Fiat terms is just a number.

1064
01:13:57,810 --> 01:14:02,190
Right? Even more exciting is to
row a duck's Ben, what does that

1065
01:14:02,190 --> 01:14:04,890
even mean? It'd be I don't know,
how much is that in pennies or

1066
01:14:04,890 --> 01:14:09,720
dollars or whatever. It's an
it's an engagement system that

1067
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:13,170
motivates people when they're
doing something that they're

1068
01:14:13,170 --> 01:14:18,330
doing in Todd's metric is always
98 or 97% of people don't do it

1069
01:14:18,330 --> 01:14:23,640
for money, I believe that I
think is probably close. But you

1070
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:29,550
can also this podcast this very
podcast is an excellent example

1071
01:14:29,850 --> 01:14:35,220
of a podcast that exists not to
make money. It is a podcast that

1072
01:14:35,220 --> 01:14:41,010
exists to support a community.
That's a community resource view

1073
01:14:41,010 --> 01:14:44,970
and I take no money out of this
that goes into keeping the

1074
01:14:44,970 --> 01:14:48,450
community going with the with
the systems that we need. We're

1075
01:14:48,450 --> 01:14:52,800
the reserve to make sure we stay
alive and to continue to provide

1076
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:59,040
liquidity and low low cost
routing etc. That's that's that

1077
01:14:59,370 --> 01:15:03,300
this is This is a type of
podcast that I think a lot

1078
01:15:03,420 --> 01:15:08,040
without value for value when
people use to support their

1079
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:12,330
hobby, their club, their
whatever it is. And the podcast

1080
01:15:12,330 --> 01:15:17,460
industrial complex is just so
insane about making money and

1081
01:15:17,460 --> 01:15:22,800
making money making money making
money Nene, Nene Nene. And

1082
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:26,580
that's not what podcasting is.
But you'd think that's all that

1083
01:15:26,580 --> 01:15:33,090
it's about. If you if you listen
to that to video, podcast, news

1084
01:15:33,090 --> 01:15:37,500
shows or podcasts, industry
information, you know, it's all

1085
01:15:37,500 --> 01:15:40,770
about the advertising is up,
this is up and this is up and

1086
01:15:40,770 --> 01:15:45,510
this is, who cares. Most people
just want to do a podcast

1087
01:15:45,510 --> 01:15:48,930
because they want to be heard.
And with value for value in the

1088
01:15:48,930 --> 01:15:52,710
digital sense of podcasts and
2.0. You have this beautiful

1089
01:15:52,710 --> 01:15:57,510
metric that makes you feel good.
It's what's what what has always

1090
01:15:57,510 --> 01:16:00,600
been the differentiator in
podcast hosting companies has

1091
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:04,680
been statistics. We've got great
stats. He's got real time stats,

1092
01:16:04,710 --> 01:16:08,460
we've got better stats, we've
got stats with maps, we've got

1093
01:16:08,460 --> 01:16:14,310
stats with charts, and this is
an unbelievable stat. Oh,

1094
01:16:14,460 --> 01:16:17,280
someone's listening right at
this very moment. I see it every

1095
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,710
minute they listen, I see
something that tells me

1096
01:16:19,710 --> 01:16:25,020
someone's listening. It's much
bigger than than what the

1097
01:16:25,020 --> 01:16:28,740
podcast industrial complex is
selling people. It's a shame

1098
01:16:28,740 --> 01:16:32,460
really, it's a shame. Because
people always say, well, but I

1099
01:16:32,460 --> 01:16:35,280
can be an influencer. I could do
a podcast. I'll make some money.

1100
01:16:35,340 --> 01:16:36,210
Probably not.

1101
01:16:39,570 --> 01:16:42,840
Dave Jones: The podcast
industrial complex is a selfless

1102
01:16:42,870 --> 01:16:52,350
it's a self licking ice cream
cone. It is a PSP is a is a it's

1103
01:16:52,350 --> 01:16:56,430
really it is the it is the
digital advertising industry.

1104
01:16:57,540 --> 01:17:02,670
With podcasting as like an add
on module. Yes, they just

1105
01:17:02,700 --> 01:17:08,460
they've just just plugged in the
podcasting on the side. If they

1106
01:17:08,460 --> 01:17:12,000
don't really care about a good
organic discovery, sorry, sorry.

1107
01:17:12,900 --> 01:17:16,080
They don't they don't really
care about podcasting as

1108
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:20,520
podcasting. It's just another
way to siphon off a percentage

1109
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:24,840
of an of an advertising revenue
stream. Yes. And so podcasting

1110
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:29,880
itself is irrelevant. I mean,
podcast consultants, they need

1111
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:32,550
to get their clients into the
YouTube ecosystem in order to

1112
01:17:32,550 --> 01:17:36,000
get a cut of that sweet YouTube
money. Yes, yes, yes. So

1113
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,990
therefore, they define a way the
meaning of what podcasting is

1114
01:17:39,990 --> 01:17:46,050
using some sort of like George
Bush, fuzzy math. And, like, you

1115
01:17:46,050 --> 01:17:48,690
know, I mean, like, they're not,
they're no longer they're no

1116
01:17:48,690 --> 01:17:51,780
longer soldiers. They're enemy
combatants. Yeah, we just, we

1117
01:17:51,780 --> 01:17:55,710
just changed the terminology.
And that's good. And now

1118
01:17:55,710 --> 01:17:59,280
everything becomes podcasting.
In this, it's a joke. And so

1119
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:04,410
they do these, they do these
ridiculous, inconsistent, they

1120
01:18:04,410 --> 01:18:10,290
did these ridiculous surveys
with inconsistent results. And

1121
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:15,060
extrapolate always at the end of
them. This that is obviously

1122
01:18:15,060 --> 01:18:19,110
beneficial to be to have more
YouTube. So like, you know,

1123
01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:22,200
they'll say, Oh, well, everybody
listens to their podcasts on

1124
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:25,920
YouTube. And then they'll say,
Well, we know how many of the

1125
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:29,520
top podcasts are on YouTube, you
know, other top out of the top

1126
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:34,680
100? Well, five, right? Well,
then this is an inconsistent

1127
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:38,220
result. This shows that your
surveys full of crap. Yeah. And

1128
01:18:38,250 --> 01:18:42,570
like, it's the whole thing. I
don't know, this kind of goes

1129
01:18:42,570 --> 01:18:46,830
back to this debate that I
really don't want to get into.

1130
01:18:46,830 --> 01:18:50,940
But it's just to bring it up
about whether something is quote

1131
01:18:50,940 --> 01:18:54,180
unquote, government funded, or
whether it just gets funding

1132
01:18:54,180 --> 01:18:58,170
from the government. Yeah, they
have in again, you know, we had

1133
01:18:58,170 --> 01:19:03,120
this there's this, of course,
this newsguard organization is

1134
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:06,630
getting sued, because they,
they've taken government money

1135
01:19:06,630 --> 01:19:15,030
to do it to do a project for the
government. And the, you know,

1136
01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:18,090
they did more research on this
this week, and it was 20, they

1137
01:19:18,090 --> 01:19:25,380
had a $25,000 advance to do a
pilot program to provide initial

1138
01:19:25,410 --> 01:19:29,250
AI work using their
misinformation, fingerprint

1139
01:19:29,250 --> 01:19:33,780
database supplied to the Defense
Department. And then the idea is

1140
01:19:33,780 --> 01:19:38,040
if this was a good product, and
they get the full award, so

1141
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:42,000
it's, it's clear to me that this
was, you know, a project that

1142
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:48,720
they did for the government. But
you know, that there's this big

1143
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:53,370
debate around whether or not
something becomes quote unquote,

1144
01:19:53,370 --> 01:19:58,650
government funded. And, you
know, I understand that. The

1145
01:19:58,650 --> 01:20:02,190
reason I'm attaching this to
YouTube is because this is also

1146
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:07,590
very similar to this idea of
digital advertising, whether

1147
01:20:07,590 --> 01:20:14,130
something is whether or not the,
the money you get from the

1148
01:20:14,130 --> 01:20:17,820
advertiser is a corrupting
influence on the content of the

1149
01:20:17,820 --> 01:20:20,160
show, or the content of what

1150
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:23,310
Adam Curry: you're delivering by
definition. Yes.

1151
01:20:23,340 --> 01:20:27,540
Dave Jones: So you and you have
these, there's, you have these

1152
01:20:27,540 --> 01:20:31,680
ideas there, it's like, well, I
just get a portion of my money

1153
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:35,130
from the government. Therefore,
you know, it's because I

1154
01:20:35,130 --> 01:20:41,580
delivered such an such a project
or product. And I got paid for

1155
01:20:41,580 --> 01:20:45,720
it. Therefore, you know, it's
not fair to call me government

1156
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:49,800
funded. Because that implies
that I did, I'm literally I

1157
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:52,890
wouldn't exist without
government. And I can understand

1158
01:20:52,890 --> 01:20:56,700
that. I understand the
distinction there that is trying

1159
01:20:56,700 --> 01:21:01,350
to be made. I always come back
to this, there's this old.

1160
01:21:02,940 --> 01:21:08,190
There's this old sort of thought
experiment that goes like this.

1161
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:13,350
You're walking down the
alleyway, you're walking down a

1162
01:21:13,350 --> 01:21:17,640
dark alleyway in Chicago with
your wife. And you just left a

1163
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:20,940
restaurant at two o'clock in the
morning, you're walking down

1164
01:21:20,940 --> 01:21:26,220
this alleyway. And at the other
end of the alleyway, you see

1165
01:21:26,220 --> 01:21:29,760
three figures in hoodies walking
towards you.

1166
01:21:30,060 --> 01:21:32,220
Adam Curry: Wow, hold on a
second, I think we need some,

1167
01:21:32,310 --> 01:21:33,690
some spooky music with this.

1168
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:40,860
Dave Jones: Yeah, we're walking
down the alleyway. So you're

1169
01:21:40,860 --> 01:21:43,440
going down the alleyway, and you
see these three fingers

1170
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:51,810
approaching. And they emerge out
of the out of the smoke that's

1171
01:21:51,810 --> 01:21:57,960
rising out of the manhole cover.
You can't you, you, you, you

1172
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:02,160
catch your breath and your
throat. And you look at your

1173
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:07,590
wife and you're scared. Would it
make a difference to you? If you

1174
01:22:07,590 --> 01:22:12,090
knew that these three, these
three men just came out of a

1175
01:22:12,090 --> 01:22:18,060
Bible study? Wow. Of course, if
the answer is, of course, it

1176
01:22:18,060 --> 01:22:21,150
wouldn't make a difference. It
would make all the difference in

1177
01:22:21,150 --> 01:22:28,890
the whole world. So the idea
that that you did the the QA the

1178
01:22:29,580 --> 01:22:38,700
the context of a thing is
corrupted or determined by small

1179
01:22:38,730 --> 01:22:44,460
inputs like that, like a little
a little bit of context, can

1180
01:22:44,460 --> 01:22:48,930
flavor an entire interaction.
And so it's not, I guess what

1181
01:22:48,930 --> 01:22:54,300
I'm trying to say here is that
it doesn't matter if you're

1182
01:22:54,300 --> 01:22:59,880
government funded, or if you're
funded by the government, the

1183
01:22:59,880 --> 01:23:03,390
mere fact that you get your
money, did you get any portion

1184
01:23:03,390 --> 01:23:08,130
of your money from the
government taints, or gives

1185
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:12,900
flavor to all of your content?
Yeah. And whether it's fair or

1186
01:23:12,900 --> 01:23:16,440
not, it is a thing that you are
going to have to live with.

1187
01:23:16,440 --> 01:23:20,130
Because it's, it is an
unavoidable aspect of human

1188
01:23:20,130 --> 01:23:23,100
nature that they're going to
those interpretations are going

1189
01:23:23,100 --> 01:23:26,940
to be made. And the same, it's
the same way with digital with

1190
01:23:26,940 --> 01:23:33,150
advertising. If you get your
money, any portion of it 1% From

1191
01:23:33,150 --> 01:23:38,910
an advert from advertisers,
people are always going to from

1192
01:23:38,910 --> 01:23:43,470
time to time, not always, not
always. But from time to time,

1193
01:23:43,470 --> 01:23:50,520
people are going to question
whether or not your content has

1194
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:55,950
been subtly pushed in the
direction that is favorable to

1195
01:23:55,980 --> 01:23:59,730
an advertiser. It's an it is
unavoidable,

1196
01:23:59,730 --> 01:24:02,130
Adam Curry: just by definition,
that you're not going to talk

1197
01:24:02,130 --> 01:24:05,820
about a competing product.
That's censorship right there,

1198
01:24:06,390 --> 01:24:07,590
bro, self censorship.

1199
01:24:08,580 --> 01:24:12,360
Dave Jones: Right. And, and, you
know, I see people that fight

1200
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:20,130
against this. And they they try
to push, they they try to push

1201
01:24:20,130 --> 01:24:23,400
through it and say, Look, I'm
not going to censor what I say.

1202
01:24:23,820 --> 01:24:27,120
And they have varying degrees of
success with it. You know,

1203
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:30,540
sometimes an advertiser pulls
out sometimes they don't. But

1204
01:24:30,540 --> 01:24:39,150
the the idea there is that in
both cases, the perception is

1205
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:43,110
all that matters. And that's,
that's what me like when those,

1206
01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:46,470
you know, when it's at night,
and those three guys are walking

1207
01:24:46,470 --> 01:24:50,340
towards you. The perception your
fear is determined is driven

1208
01:24:50,340 --> 01:24:53,880
purely by the perception of the
situation. And that's always the

1209
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:57,030
case perception is reality in
every one of these cases,

1210
01:24:57,150 --> 01:25:01,770
whether that's fair tea or not,
is sort of irrelevant. Exactly,

1211
01:25:02,340 --> 01:25:02,730
yeah.

1212
01:25:04,440 --> 01:25:10,320
Adam Curry: So I guess what I'm
saying is what we are doing here

1213
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:16,500
matters. It's important. The N
value for value is not about

1214
01:25:16,500 --> 01:25:21,480
money per se, it's not an
alternative to advertising. It

1215
01:25:21,480 --> 01:25:27,660
can be competitive with the with
the with the payout it can be.

1216
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:34,500
But at its basis, I'm just
excited by I'm still excited

1217
01:25:34,500 --> 01:25:39,750
when I hear pew. Pew and then
sometimes I leave it open, you

1218
01:25:39,750 --> 01:25:42,960
know, the the speaker still on I
have pew and I run back. Oh, let

1219
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:46,260
me see. What did they say?
What's what's what's the

1220
01:25:46,290 --> 01:25:52,140
numerology of it? You know, and
or it's never about, oh, I made

1221
01:25:52,140 --> 01:25:58,290
another buck. Never about that.
Conversely, we celebrated 16

1222
01:25:58,290 --> 01:25:59,940
years of no agenda yesterday.

1223
01:26:00,570 --> 01:26:02,100
Dave Jones: Congratulations,
happy anniversary,

1224
01:26:02,130 --> 01:26:05,520
Adam Curry: thank you. And go
ahead and listen to the donation

1225
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:11,640
segment. It blows me away. It
blows me away that people, not

1226
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:16,170
one not 210 Pulling $1,000 out
of their pocket Happy Birthday.

1227
01:26:18,870 --> 01:26:24,150
But besides, besides that, what
they're saying in the notes is,

1228
01:26:24,330 --> 01:26:27,600
you know, I would have I might
have been dead. Literally, we

1229
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:30,870
get that quite often, I might
have been dead. If you hadn't

1230
01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:35,670
influenced my thinking. Where I
got out of a bad situation, or

1231
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:39,570
I've determined to change
something in my life based upon

1232
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:43,380
the way you looked at a new
story. Or I'm not all freaked

1233
01:26:43,380 --> 01:26:46,290
out about new stories. There's a
whole bunch of different

1234
01:26:46,290 --> 01:26:51,000
reasons. Those, that's what
excites me. It really does like,

1235
01:26:51,030 --> 01:26:54,630
Oh, wow. And that's been that
that value for value. And we

1236
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:59,070
look, I don't care. Look, I
don't care what you're doing. It

1237
01:26:59,070 --> 01:27:02,190
took us a long time to get to a
place where it could support to

1238
01:27:02,190 --> 01:27:08,280
families. It took us years,
years and years probably. Now

1239
01:27:08,280 --> 01:27:12,150
early days, I think it might be
easier now. Because we have more

1240
01:27:12,150 --> 01:27:14,580
tools just in general to
communicate. We didn't have we

1241
01:27:14,580 --> 01:27:18,090
had PayPal, that was the only
thing we had. But we didn't have

1242
01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:25,020
we didn't have what do you call
it MailChimp didn't have these

1243
01:27:25,020 --> 01:27:28,290
easy, easy mail, you know, a
newsletter things. We didn't

1244
01:27:28,290 --> 01:27:31,710
have all these different. We
didn't have. We barely had

1245
01:27:31,710 --> 01:27:38,820
social media as a thing. But it
took years and years and years

1246
01:27:38,820 --> 01:27:44,100
and whether you're, you know,
to, for it to be sustaining. And

1247
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:47,970
that's you know, it's good can
be done with people. So yeah,

1248
01:27:47,970 --> 01:27:52,950
but you had to name bull crap.
Now, if anyone's go ahead and

1249
01:27:52,980 --> 01:27:54,900
walk around, say Adam curry by
huh.

1250
01:27:55,620 --> 01:27:58,920
Dave Jones: It started if you
had started a music show that

1251
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:02,160
may have pulled over, but not
for what you did. I mean, that's

1252
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:03,390
you are starting from scratch.

1253
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:08,700
Adam Curry: And we've never done
video. Never never contemplated

1254
01:28:08,700 --> 01:28:12,120
it. And we're not on Spotify.

1255
01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:16,860
Dave Jones: But the YouTube, the
YouTube podcast industrial

1256
01:28:16,860 --> 01:28:23,340
complex, like, just, just just
don't, you know, just just don't

1257
01:28:24,330 --> 01:28:30,420
just don't go that direction. I
mean, like, it's, and honestly,

1258
01:28:31,380 --> 01:28:35,250
just did digital advertising in
general. I mean, just be

1259
01:28:35,250 --> 01:28:38,820
prepared. If that's the route
you choose, just be prepared to

1260
01:28:38,820 --> 01:28:42,450
have always that, that
perception that's attached to

1261
01:28:42,450 --> 01:28:47,310
your TV content. And, you know,
I mean, hey, I go and I read

1262
01:28:47,310 --> 01:28:52,350
news, I had to figure out we had
a special election in our album

1263
01:28:52,350 --> 01:28:55,470
House District, you know, the
other day and I have no problem

1264
01:28:55,470 --> 01:29:00,090
going to aol.com or the local
news and seeing who won the

1265
01:29:00,090 --> 01:29:02,880
election. That's an objective
thing that I go and check out.

1266
01:29:03,450 --> 01:29:06,060
Not a problem. I don't think
they're compromised, that I'm

1267
01:29:06,060 --> 01:29:08,190
not going to find out who
actually won the election or

1268
01:29:08,190 --> 01:29:12,780
not. That's not that's not an
issue. But But am I going to go

1269
01:29:12,780 --> 01:29:19,410
and, you know, read a piece from
them about, you know, about a

1270
01:29:19,500 --> 01:29:23,700
local advertising, excuse me
about a local business, when

1271
01:29:23,700 --> 01:29:27,120
that business may have been an
advertiser, I'm gonna be a

1272
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:30,120
little bit skeptical of that.
I'm probably just not even going

1273
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:32,940
to read the article. Right. So I
mean that and that's what you're

1274
01:29:32,940 --> 01:29:36,000
that's what you're gonna have to
fight. I mean, the the

1275
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:41,880
podcasting is a long stay
staying power. staying power is

1276
01:29:41,970 --> 01:29:48,600
is 90% of of podcasting. Every
say I mean look at James every

1277
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:54,300
single day. Yep. And you've got
I mean, I, I couldn't do it. I'm

1278
01:29:54,300 --> 01:29:57,510
already telling you I could not
do it every single day podcast

1279
01:29:57,510 --> 01:29:59,370
for how for year after year.

1280
01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:00,930
Adam Curry: Yeah, it's is a real
commitment.

1281
01:30:01,590 --> 01:30:05,610
Dave Jones: It is it is and but
in the commitment eventually

1282
01:30:05,610 --> 01:30:08,520
does pay off, if you try to
shortcut and just say I'm going

1283
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:12,150
to do YouTube, yeah. You're
you're just cheapening your own

1284
01:30:12,150 --> 01:30:12,810
product.

1285
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:14,760
Adam Curry: And you and you
don't have control over

1286
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:17,190
discovery of you don't have
control. You just don't have

1287
01:30:17,220 --> 01:30:23,760
control. That's right. And all
of this. I love this RSS. Deep

1288
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:26,880
Dive that we're doing right now
the whole group. And because

1289
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:33,120
this will lead to better RSS
content distribution in general,

1290
01:30:33,390 --> 01:30:38,610
and discovery through RSS and it
Yes, it will work with written

1291
01:30:38,610 --> 01:30:43,320
word. I mean, there's no reason
why you can't have a remote item

1292
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:45,330
for blogs.

1293
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:49,320
Dave Jones: Totally. Yeah,
totally. You know,

1294
01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:53,490
Adam Curry: and I think
ultimately, and, and welcome

1295
01:30:53,490 --> 01:30:56,370
again, Andrew Gromit good to
have him on podcast index dot

1296
01:30:56,370 --> 01:31:02,670
social, progressive web apps,
you know, because that's, that's

1297
01:31:02,670 --> 01:31:05,130
the next thing. The actually
Todd said that, you know, we

1298
01:31:05,130 --> 01:31:07,140
still have the World Wide Web,
if anyone still knows what that

1299
01:31:07,140 --> 01:31:09,150
means. And I'm like, Yeah, you
know, a lot of people don't.

1300
01:31:10,110 --> 01:31:11,460
They think they have a Google.

1301
01:31:13,020 --> 01:31:13,950
Dave Jones: Yeah,

1302
01:31:14,280 --> 01:31:16,830
Adam Curry: I got Google. I hit
this button. And I searched and

1303
01:31:16,830 --> 01:31:20,580
I get answers. And I find stuff.
But that's Google right. Now,

1304
01:31:20,580 --> 01:31:21,300
that's the web

1305
01:31:22,290 --> 01:31:25,980
Dave Jones: that that's in in
the web, we forget that the web

1306
01:31:25,980 --> 01:31:30,840
is the the original
decentralized. Yes. Like,

1307
01:31:31,170 --> 01:31:34,170
there's so many times where we
look at these other protocols.

1308
01:31:34,500 --> 01:31:38,940
And we're like, you know, we
think, Okay, well, this, this

1309
01:31:38,940 --> 01:31:41,490
protocol is going to meet my
needs for decentralization.

1310
01:31:41,700 --> 01:31:44,940
Really, the web is the most
decentralized things, that thing

1311
01:31:44,940 --> 01:31:50,790
that exists. But look, look at
the number of aggregation points

1312
01:31:50,790 --> 01:31:55,710
for feeds. It's huge. It's all
over the place. If you look at

1313
01:31:55,710 --> 01:32:00,600
the weekly stats, hosting stats
dump that we do. I mean, that

1314
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:07,560
thing has 2000 entries. That's
it, that's equivalent to

1315
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:11,730
something like, you know, 2000
IPFS nodes.

1316
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:15,750
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah. Is it
really that many? It's 2000.

1317
01:32:15,750 --> 01:32:20,130
Really, that's amazing. It's a
lot. That is huge. And that's

1318
01:32:20,130 --> 01:32:23,580
all hosting companies,
individual servers, etc.

1319
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:26,370
Dave Jones: Right? Yeah.
Actually, let me pull that up.

1320
01:32:26,700 --> 01:32:30,240
I'm kind of curious. Now. Let me
see if I can get to my, to the

1321
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:31,830
last version of that ahead.

1322
01:32:32,010 --> 01:32:37,140
Adam Curry: And it's a great way
to to hide it. You know. You're

1323
01:32:37,140 --> 01:32:40,140
so right. It is so that's so
beautiful. That's all

1324
01:32:40,140 --> 01:32:41,130
decentralized.

1325
01:32:41,639 --> 01:32:45,239
Dave Jones: Well, we're gonna
have we're gonna have Todd and

1326
01:32:45,359 --> 01:32:50,729
Mike Dell from blueberry on next
week, next week, next year, next

1327
01:32:50,729 --> 01:32:53,849
week, so that we can talk about
one of the things we're going to

1328
01:32:53,849 --> 01:32:58,199
talk about is their proposal for
what they call alternate feed.

1329
01:32:58,619 --> 01:33:04,169
Yep. And, and I've been thinking
a lot about it, and I dig it. I

1330
01:33:04,169 --> 01:33:07,859
think it's very, I think it's
very useful, but they in it, it

1331
01:33:07,859 --> 01:33:10,859
relies on this idea of
decentralizing just using the

1332
01:33:10,859 --> 01:33:16,589
web itself. I'm all for that.
There is so yeah, so there's,

1333
01:33:16,919 --> 01:33:20,579
you know, you have anchor
Spreaker. These are just this is

1334
01:33:20,609 --> 01:33:25,979
this is rent, ranked and this is
these are ordered by the number

1335
01:33:25,979 --> 01:33:31,529
of feeds they host Okay, so
currently, anchor Spreaker

1336
01:33:31,529 --> 01:33:36,899
Buzzsprout. iBook, SoundCloud,
rss.com pod bean Lipson.

1337
01:33:36,929 --> 01:33:40,499
PodOmatic castbox I'm gonna get
down a few

1338
01:33:41,190 --> 01:33:42,510
Adam Curry: you're gonna want to
hear the names.

1339
01:33:43,170 --> 01:33:49,080
Dave Jones: Blueberry Librivox a
cast cast those red circle

1340
01:33:49,650 --> 01:33:56,100
Islaam house Allah walk by
Cambridge University Captivate

1341
01:33:56,640 --> 01:34:00,810
transistor hub Hopper simple
cast Omni content, okay, and it

1342
01:34:00,810 --> 01:34:03,810
keeps going and it gives you go
scroll script PAGE PAGE PAGE

1343
01:34:03,810 --> 01:34:08,130
PAGE all the way down so there's
a once you get down to less than

1344
01:34:08,130 --> 01:34:11,550
100 There's just a bazillion of
these things so there's what

1345
01:34:11,550 --> 01:34:11,700
kind

1346
01:34:11,700 --> 01:34:14,580
Adam Curry: of names I want to
hear the names catwalk cash fly

1347
01:34:15,660 --> 01:34:21,780
Dave Jones: the guardian.com
Listen notes. You remember they

1348
01:34:21,780 --> 01:34:28,980
had they have no hosting
service? Yeah. My See, my I know

1349
01:34:28,980 --> 01:34:33,270
church.co.uk The chain how many?

1350
01:34:33,300 --> 01:34:38,460
Adam Curry: How many feeds from
feeds.no agenda notes.com. What

1351
01:34:38,460 --> 01:34:39,330
is it? No agenda?

1352
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:41,040
Dave Jones: What is our feed in
a show notes?

1353
01:34:41,280 --> 01:34:43,320
Adam Curry: Is that any show
notes? Yeah, probably is an

1354
01:34:43,320 --> 01:34:46,590
issue. How many are coming from?
Seven?

1355
01:34:48,510 --> 01:34:50,940
Dave Jones: Yes, seven from in a
show. notes.com Right. Right

1356
01:34:50,940 --> 01:34:57,360
after na shows.com is web geeks
pc.com Catholica pedia.net

1357
01:34:59,700 --> 01:35:02,850
Adam Curry: This Yeah, that's
your decentralized web right

1358
01:35:02,850 --> 01:35:03,300
there.

1359
01:35:03,869 --> 01:35:06,989
Dave Jones: That's it.
Mockingbird network.com whenever

1360
01:35:06,989 --> 01:35:11,609
that is pod cast edge.com
there's I mean, there's a

1361
01:35:11,609 --> 01:35:17,069
million of these in Mississippi
state.edu. Yeah, that's That's

1362
01:35:17,129 --> 01:35:22,079
it. Podcasting is already
decentralized. It really is. I

1363
01:35:22,079 --> 01:35:26,909
mean, anything we'd add to it is
just sort of, it's like an it's

1364
01:35:26,909 --> 01:35:31,379
an overlay. Right? We're not,
we're not enhancing it. And you

1365
01:35:31,379 --> 01:35:32,729
know, we aren't what it already
is,

1366
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:34,290
Adam Curry: when I think about
it. You know, if you look at

1367
01:35:34,290 --> 01:35:38,250
like, talking about news like
Google News, then wonder they

1368
01:35:38,250 --> 01:35:43,470
hate RSS. Because there's not
enough we scrape, we organize,

1369
01:35:43,470 --> 01:35:47,550
and we rank it, and we show it,
because that's what they do.

1370
01:35:48,630 --> 01:35:51,510
Now, now, that may be under the
hood, I'll bet they're picking

1371
01:35:51,510 --> 01:35:55,200
up a lot more RSS feeds, and
they'd be willing to admit, but

1372
01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:57,900
Google News, you know, they're,
they're pulling it in from all

1373
01:35:57,900 --> 01:36:00,720
these sources. They want to be
your news reader. And they don't

1374
01:36:00,720 --> 01:36:03,270
want you to know how to do it
yourself. They don't want you to

1375
01:36:03,270 --> 01:36:06,780
do it yourself. They don't want
people who are creating news or

1376
01:36:06,780 --> 01:36:11,070
reporting news or whatever it is
or what content they don't want

1377
01:36:11,070 --> 01:36:13,890
you to self organize. And that's
our job.

1378
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:19,440
Dave Jones: But ASCII assume
that the web is the web is

1379
01:36:19,440 --> 01:36:25,140
decentralized, it's its DNS, its
URLs, its links, there's no

1380
01:36:25,170 --> 01:36:27,810
everybody hosts their own thing.
That's the ultimate

1381
01:36:27,810 --> 01:36:31,770
decentralization just just just
because just because something.

1382
01:36:32,010 --> 01:36:33,270
This is why this is why

1383
01:36:33,270 --> 01:36:35,880
Adam Curry: thing. No, this is
why the app ecosystem was built

1384
01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:39,450
was to obfuscate the web. And
there was never Steve Jobs, his

1385
01:36:39,480 --> 01:36:45,270
vision. His vision was
progressive web apps. If I'm not

1386
01:36:45,270 --> 01:36:45,900
mistaken

1387
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:49,800
Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't know
those those that wasn't paying

1388
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:54,030
attention to. When the iPhone
came first came out, I thought

1389
01:36:54,030 --> 01:36:57,120
it was one of the ones that was
like, Oh, this is bullcrap. This

1390
01:36:57,120 --> 01:37:02,520
is gonna listen, this is a joke.
This isn't gonna last. Because I

1391
01:37:02,520 --> 01:37:05,580
was like, that's, nobody's ever
gonna type on their screen.

1392
01:37:06,060 --> 01:37:07,320
You're gonna want to look people
okay,

1393
01:37:07,320 --> 01:37:10,560
Adam Curry: my wife, she is the
best canary in the coal mine. As

1394
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:15,870
long as you do the opposite. Her
two famous claims one who's ever

1395
01:37:15,870 --> 01:37:19,200
going to use a credit card? That
makes no sense.

1396
01:37:20,850 --> 01:37:22,710
Dave Jones: The next one that
was better than mine.

1397
01:37:23,100 --> 01:37:26,640
Adam Curry: The next one is
cool. Want to make a phone call?

1398
01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:30,120
While they're standing outside?
Who wants a phone in their

1399
01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:37,740
pocket? I love it. Whenever she
says who wants that? I'm like we

1400
01:37:37,740 --> 01:37:46,860
have a winner. This buy stocks
now? Yeah, well, good. I'm very,

1401
01:37:47,070 --> 01:37:49,020
the only other thing I just
wanted to put on people's radar,

1402
01:37:49,020 --> 01:37:54,060
just want to keep it on the
radar is for the live shows. You

1403
01:37:54,060 --> 01:37:57,930
know, the WebSocket I don't know
if that's been written up yet.

1404
01:37:59,460 --> 01:38:02,520
As a as a part, I don't know if
that's a part of the namespace

1405
01:38:02,520 --> 01:38:07,110
or how we do that. But I always
feel super crappy. When I do a

1406
01:38:07,110 --> 01:38:11,550
booster Graham ball live. And
people are listening on fountain

1407
01:38:11,550 --> 01:38:14,820
and pod verse, which has great
lit lit functionality, but then

1408
01:38:14,820 --> 01:38:17,250
they're boosting and it's not
going to the artists.

1409
01:38:18,480 --> 01:38:22,050
Dave Jones: I'm waiting else
sort of waiting on podcast guru

1410
01:38:22,050 --> 01:38:26,160
and Steven B to figure out what
what that spec was going to be.

1411
01:38:26,160 --> 01:38:29,760
But if you guys need my help, I
mean, like if you if you want

1412
01:38:29,970 --> 01:38:33,240
everybody getting involved in
that, you know, send out the bat

1413
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:34,680
signal. So we all know what to
do.

1414
01:38:34,980 --> 01:38:39,210
Adam Curry: Yeah, I mean that to
me the remote item and the is

1415
01:38:39,210 --> 01:38:42,720
much more important but it's a
part of it I guess in a way but

1416
01:38:42,720 --> 01:38:46,410
you know the interface is for
the synthetic feeds and you

1417
01:38:46,410 --> 01:38:49,710
know, like the fountain is doing
a good job and I've seen the

1418
01:38:49,710 --> 01:38:54,330
podcast guru stuff of you know,
tapping in you see booster

1419
01:38:54,330 --> 01:38:57,780
Graham ball, you can find the
song. I want to subscribe to

1420
01:38:57,780 --> 01:39:00,540
artists I want to follow
artists. That's what I want that

1421
01:39:00,540 --> 01:39:04,320
you know, that's just that mean
just like a podcast. I want to

1422
01:39:04,320 --> 01:39:07,650
follow authors for their audio
books. I all this stuff, all of

1423
01:39:07,650 --> 01:39:09,540
it. If anybody

1424
01:39:09,540 --> 01:39:11,280
Dave Jones: likes metal that
lightning thrash

1425
01:39:13,200 --> 01:39:17,100
Adam Curry: that yeah, you gotta
be I gotta be in the right vibe

1426
01:39:17,100 --> 01:39:18,420
for that. You know,

1427
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:21,120
Dave Jones: you have to get
yourself jacked up for metal and

1428
01:39:21,120 --> 01:39:22,320
I'm ready for it all the time.

1429
01:39:22,770 --> 01:39:25,980
Adam Curry: Let me see what the
most with the most recent shows

1430
01:39:26,010 --> 01:39:32,640
are. I go to my desktop web app.
ln beats love. Love the desktop.

1431
01:39:33,540 --> 01:39:37,680
So we're still at 1313 shows
that we're aware of right now.

1432
01:39:37,950 --> 01:39:41,100
Homegrown hits. I like that one
a lot. DeLorean like home home

1433
01:39:41,100 --> 01:39:48,630
grown hits. And I bet Sam still
a big fan of what is it? It's a

1434
01:39:48,690 --> 01:39:52,050
it's a mood. Yeah, it's a mood.
That's cool. I get ideas for the

1435
01:39:52,050 --> 01:39:56,520
show from it's a mood. Let's
good. Shall we? thank a few

1436
01:39:56,520 --> 01:39:56,940
people.

1437
01:39:57,480 --> 01:39:58,920
Dave Jones: Yeah, my voice is
starting to go

1438
01:39:58,950 --> 01:40:01,440
Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah. Gotta
get you back under the covers

1439
01:40:01,470 --> 01:40:08,400
with a hot toddy. T 500 SATs
hear from radio Pete boost first

1440
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:12,780
ever boost Hello we've D virgin
as your boost edge. You have the

1441
01:40:12,780 --> 01:40:16,710
main head of my boosting he says
go podcasting 2.0 Not listening

1442
01:40:16,710 --> 01:40:20,670
live as I have my head under a
grubby bath sorting out a leak

1443
01:40:20,820 --> 01:40:24,690
shall catch up tomorrow with
board's permission of course you

1444
01:40:24,690 --> 01:40:30,540
can always catch up tomorrow
33,333 from cotton Jim Pugh we

1445
01:40:30,540 --> 01:40:34,830
got your pew Dred Scott with
5555 which is according to

1446
01:40:35,100 --> 01:40:39,540
Johnson of Warwick a row of
swans. Oh, even though it's

1447
01:40:39,540 --> 01:40:43,860
valid. Yeah, even though Well,
you know him. And Dred Scott

1448
01:40:43,860 --> 01:40:47,460
says question about the TOC.
Will there be issues with TOC

1449
01:40:47,460 --> 01:40:51,570
Inception weirdness when using
the relay and your own chapters

1450
01:40:51,570 --> 01:40:56,790
or hybrid chapter, hyperkinetic
chapters with its own TOC? I

1451
01:40:56,790 --> 01:41:02,250
think the answer is no. If you
mark something as TOC in your

1452
01:41:02,250 --> 01:41:06,300
own chapters, or I don't know if
hyper capture has a toggle for

1453
01:41:06,300 --> 01:41:08,250
that. It'll just be respected.

1454
01:41:09,270 --> 01:41:10,980
Dave Jones: Yeah, it should just
come straight through. Yeah,

1455
01:41:10,980 --> 01:41:11,070
it's

1456
01:41:11,820 --> 01:41:16,290
Adam Curry: going to be any
problems. And by the way, via

1457
01:41:16,290 --> 01:41:19,080
drip, thank you for hanging in
there. Some people might have

1458
01:41:19,080 --> 01:41:22,980
gone if this man did blip. I'm
not gonna do chapters anymore.

1459
01:41:23,010 --> 01:41:26,100
Some people are like that.
You're not. I love you for that.

1460
01:41:26,100 --> 01:41:29,340
Brother. Thank you for hanging
in and keeping with it. Yeah,

1461
01:41:29,370 --> 01:41:32,910
because we're basically messing
up his art right now. Which is I

1462
01:41:32,910 --> 01:41:36,360
take seriously, I didn't realize
how much it would mess it up.

1463
01:41:37,020 --> 01:41:41,670
Now we know sir Sean riser, go
podcasting with 1000 SATs or TJ

1464
01:41:41,670 --> 01:41:45,240
the wrathful with 3333 artists
check with Mike to see if your

1465
01:41:45,510 --> 01:41:48,570
artists check with Mike to see
if you're on the index or just

1466
01:41:48,570 --> 01:41:52,170
don't use wavelike. Use music
music side projects. Thank you.

1467
01:41:52,170 --> 01:41:55,140
Dave Jones: It's my bell. Check
with my show title is check my

1468
01:41:55,140 --> 01:41:55,650
mic

1469
01:41:56,340 --> 01:41:59,460
Adam Curry: right now and check
with my

1470
01:42:00,090 --> 01:42:03,540
Dave Jones: mic. The pull
request of the wave Les Paul

1471
01:42:03,540 --> 01:42:03,990
request.

1472
01:42:05,250 --> 01:42:10,200
Adam Curry: Sir Libra 2112 We
got I wish I could listen live

1473
01:42:10,200 --> 01:42:13,080
unfortunately working in the
Fiat mines. Thank you for all

1474
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:16,740
the support. There's dovie das
with 10,000 SATs. If anyone

1475
01:42:16,740 --> 01:42:19,710
would like to do their own RSS
music show, find a link to our

1476
01:42:19,710 --> 01:42:23,010
guide at RSS blue on podcast
index dot social. It's in the

1477
01:42:23,010 --> 01:42:27,120
show notes as well. Or email
info at RSS blue.com. I'll help

1478
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:31,050
you get started 3333 from Chad F
new tracks also show up at the

1479
01:42:31,050 --> 01:42:34,380
top of search and LNBs Yes, of
course it's part of the Steven

1480
01:42:34,380 --> 01:42:38,970
Bell emporium of apps. So that
makes nothing but sense. There's

1481
01:42:38,970 --> 01:42:44,490
the two from Dobie das about the
DB and the value time splits

1482
01:42:44,490 --> 01:42:48,360
which we read and a millennial
4200. Shout out to Eric PP and

1483
01:42:48,360 --> 01:42:51,960
Dave for the Hello Pat update 10
fold improvement stay on the

1484
01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:52,680
offensive.

1485
01:42:53,250 --> 01:42:56,370
Dave Jones: Oh no. I had nothing
to do with this. I literally

1486
01:42:56,370 --> 01:43:01,800
just approved just merge pull
request. Doing all of it. Yes.

1487
01:43:01,830 --> 01:43:04,650
Adam Curry: It's a beautiful
tool. It's fast.

1488
01:43:05,100 --> 01:43:07,320
Dave Jones: It's basically his
app. At this point. I'm just I'm

1489
01:43:07,320 --> 01:43:08,370
just moral support.

1490
01:43:08,490 --> 01:43:10,980
Adam Curry: Well, I'm loving it.
I run it on Start OS and it's

1491
01:43:10,980 --> 01:43:15,960
fantastic. 1000 from Sam Sethi,
CEO of pod fans. And he says but

1492
01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:20,820
boosting the boost tab. He has a
boost. And if extra events put

1493
01:43:20,820 --> 01:43:23,490
them in a new Events tab, but
leave the chapters tab alone it

1494
01:43:23,490 --> 01:43:25,440
makes a mess up the UI and
conflicts.

1495
01:43:26,160 --> 01:43:29,160
Dave Jones: Well you can split
it or you can split it your own

1496
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:33,750
way. Yeah, exactly. It's in the
same file. But when you were in

1497
01:43:33,750 --> 01:43:37,290
your UI you can you can just rip
me a rip it out and stick it

1498
01:43:37,290 --> 01:43:39,060
somewhere else. Rip it and stick
it

1499
01:43:39,510 --> 01:43:43,470
Adam Curry: to rip it and stick
it 10,000 SATs from Sony salty

1500
01:43:43,470 --> 01:43:49,320
crayon. This is salty crayon and
we know a salty crayon. Salty

1501
01:43:49,320 --> 01:43:52,020
crayon says how the boardroom
just want to say a big thanks to

1502
01:43:52,020 --> 01:43:54,480
both Adam and Dave for getting
me to take the plunge into V for

1503
01:43:54,480 --> 01:43:56,910
the music podcast and got
something I'm putting together

1504
01:43:56,910 --> 01:43:59,370
and after the developments of
the chapter boost and the split

1505
01:43:59,370 --> 01:44:02,520
kit. I'm doing it. Y'all
motivated me to dive in and give

1506
01:44:02,520 --> 01:44:05,280
it a shot much appreciated. Go
podcasting. Well what's the name

1507
01:44:05,280 --> 01:44:06,120
of your show, bro?

1508
01:44:07,500 --> 01:44:09,270
Dave Jones: Let us critical
mistake yeah.

1509
01:44:11,070 --> 01:44:15,870
Adam Curry: 13,579 from chimp
who just says tallyho tallyho to

1510
01:44:15,870 --> 01:44:18,600
you says it twice with twice
that amount. Thank you meet us.

1511
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:22,410
5000 SATs loving the helipad
update. Thank you brother. Thank

1512
01:44:22,410 --> 01:44:27,270
you Eric P P again chat F pod
verse is a go. Okay, I guess.

1513
01:44:27,840 --> 01:44:31,530
dribs start Gribbs up with a
super oh he is can't remember

1514
01:44:31,530 --> 01:44:36,000
what JCD called this booth
booths a row of swans geese. Any

1515
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:41,190
just 55,555 sets. Thank you
Brother Go podcasting. We got

1516
01:44:41,850 --> 01:44:45,330
let me see. I think I think
that's it. That's it for the

1517
01:44:45,330 --> 01:44:48,030
live booths and thank you all
very much for supporting the

1518
01:44:48,030 --> 01:44:51,870
live and lit show of podcasting
2.0 With your value in return

1519
01:44:51,870 --> 01:44:54,420
for the value you obviously are
receiving

1520
01:44:56,520 --> 01:45:00,900
Dave Jones: the two the two
Archangels of The casting 2.0

1521
01:45:00,900 --> 01:45:10,380
Marco Arment $500 Whoa 20 his
blades on the Impala and Kevin

1522
01:45:10,380 --> 01:45:12,360
and Tom from Buzzsprout $500.

1523
01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:16,080
Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank
you. Thank you. Thank you rose.

1524
01:45:16,110 --> 01:45:19,830
That's so appreciated that
always makes us feel good at the

1525
01:45:19,830 --> 01:45:23,100
end of the month that we know
that we we can pay the bills.

1526
01:45:23,670 --> 01:45:26,400
Dave Jones: I had had beers with
Tom. He was in town here in

1527
01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:29,460
Birmingham couple weeks ago. Oh,
cool. It was great. We went and

1528
01:45:29,460 --> 01:45:32,700
had some brews and talked about
everything in the world for a

1529
01:45:32,700 --> 01:45:34,290
couple hours. It was great to
see him again.

1530
01:45:34,530 --> 01:45:36,120
Adam Curry: What was he doing in
Birmingham? So you have family

1531
01:45:36,120 --> 01:45:36,420
there?

1532
01:45:37,500 --> 01:45:41,070
Dave Jones: It was a family
thing but like him, I think is

1533
01:45:41,100 --> 01:45:44,130
his daughter was visiting a
college up here. Oh, okay. So it

1534
01:45:44,130 --> 01:45:46,980
stopped me I stopped by to say
hey, and hang out for a while.

1535
01:45:47,010 --> 01:45:51,630
Oh, very cool. Yeah. See we got
some that was it for PE pals. We

1536
01:45:51,630 --> 01:45:56,970
got some booster grams. We get
up to speed devil. Ainsley

1537
01:45:56,970 --> 01:46:02,640
Costello 2500 SATs, pod fans.
Love the show this week. So

1538
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:05,730
excited to be such a big part of
solving for a new music

1539
01:46:05,730 --> 01:46:08,640
industry. Big solving for music

1540
01:46:08,670 --> 01:46:12,600
Adam Curry: like that.
Definitely, definitely. Big part

1541
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:13,050
a

1542
01:46:13,440 --> 01:46:17,400
Dave Jones: mere mortals podcast
Kyron 2222. Through fountain he

1543
01:46:17,400 --> 01:46:21,690
says it's true. It really is all
my fault. To clarify, to

1544
01:46:21,690 --> 01:46:24,390
clarify, mere mortals is where I
do all the interviewing

1545
01:46:24,390 --> 01:46:27,630
conversations. The value for
value podcast is for education

1546
01:46:27,630 --> 01:46:30,180
and explaining the ethos
practical implementation,

1547
01:46:30,540 --> 01:46:33,900
boosting dis at the appropriate
section to see how it will show

1548
01:46:33,900 --> 01:46:37,140
up in the comments. They will
hate you for it.

1549
01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:41,160
Adam Curry: You're a hated man
now. Boasting everybody you're

1550
01:46:41,160 --> 01:46:41,910
ruining it.

1551
01:46:43,320 --> 01:46:47,250
Dave Jones: Gene bein good job
on pod on the pod news weekly

1552
01:46:47,250 --> 01:46:49,020
review gene. Yes.

1553
01:46:49,290 --> 01:46:51,180
Adam Curry: That was funny to
hear him. I liked that. It was

1554
01:46:51,210 --> 01:46:57,300
it was cool to hear him do the
alley loops for for for James.

1555
01:46:57,870 --> 01:47:02,580
Dave Jones: There's rumble that
he has radio chops from the past

1556
01:47:02,580 --> 01:47:05,880
but he didn't talk about that on
the show. But there's lots

1557
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:07,410
Adam Curry: of rumble. He's
doing well. He's got some new

1558
01:47:07,410 --> 01:47:10,590
things coming out. Like some
sermons or something. I'm very

1559
01:47:10,590 --> 01:47:12,480
interested to hear what he's
what he's got coming out.

1560
01:47:13,770 --> 01:47:16,380
Dave Jones: 2020 teeth or cast
Matic he says I had an idea

1561
01:47:16,380 --> 01:47:20,460
about the deep the deep kinks. I
think he may have seen deep

1562
01:47:20,460 --> 01:47:26,280
links but he said deep key Okay.
I've got to click on this

1563
01:47:26,280 --> 01:47:26,850
interesting

1564
01:47:26,850 --> 01:47:29,130
Adam Curry: autocorrect What
have you been texting people?

1565
01:47:30,780 --> 01:47:34,740
Dave Jones: You know, it is a I
had an idea about the deep kinks

1566
01:47:34,740 --> 01:47:38,100
David Dave talked about. But
figure the details made more

1567
01:47:38,100 --> 01:47:41,670
sense on Mastodon and he has a
link to a post to on Mastodon

1568
01:47:41,670 --> 01:47:45,210
what does he say? He says, me it
doesn't already exist. Could you

1569
01:47:45,210 --> 01:47:50,100
all define a podcast deep link
spec? That says deeplinks? Dot

1570
01:47:50,100 --> 01:47:53,910
podcast? index.org. Channel good
item good should prompt opening

1571
01:47:53,910 --> 01:47:58,920
any podcast app somewhere now.
Yeah. Okay. So we've had lots of

1572
01:47:58,920 --> 01:48:06,000
different goes at this in the
past? And here's the the quick

1573
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:10,260
answer is yes, we could do this.
We could do what you talked

1574
01:48:10,260 --> 01:48:15,690
about, which is have a linking
service where we where you link

1575
01:48:15,690 --> 01:48:19,920
to a podcast episode on the
podcast index, and then we

1576
01:48:20,100 --> 01:48:22,650
provide a bunch of links to open
them up in the corresponding

1577
01:48:22,650 --> 01:48:27,930
apps. The reason that I haven't
done it is because there are

1578
01:48:27,930 --> 01:48:34,830
podcast services out there that
already do this. That also use

1579
01:48:34,860 --> 01:48:38,730
us. Yeah, we don't want to
compete our our ethos is never

1580
01:48:38,730 --> 01:48:42,630
compete, right? We just don't
want to go out and do something

1581
01:48:42,690 --> 01:48:49,680
and, like, like plink, or you
know, these services, they

1582
01:48:49,740 --> 01:48:52,770
already do it and I'm not gonna
go in and start doing things

1583
01:48:52,770 --> 01:48:53,700
that other people are already
doing.

1584
01:48:53,700 --> 01:48:56,820
Adam Curry: Right. We do not
want to be a DNS destination. We

1585
01:48:56,820 --> 01:48:58,920
just want to be a playground.
Yeah.

1586
01:49:01,260 --> 01:49:04,380
Dave Jones: Gene if you want to
build it, yeah, you should build

1587
01:49:04,380 --> 01:49:09,930
that and then and then make it
available. And then we'll, you

1588
01:49:09,930 --> 01:49:12,030
know, we'll talk about and
promote and all that kind of

1589
01:49:12,030 --> 01:49:16,110
stuff, but we'd we're not going
to do it. No. Gene been again,

1590
01:49:16,110 --> 01:49:20,340
what was the 13372 caspases.
Okay, that was cool. I pause the

1591
01:49:20,340 --> 01:49:23,910
show, boosted, hit play and saw
my boosts show up as Chapter

1592
01:49:23,910 --> 01:49:24,150
art.

1593
01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:28,920
Adam Curry: Wow. That's very
cool. That is pretty cool.

1594
01:49:28,950 --> 01:49:32,160
That's it that fast. Um, what is
what is my Franco doing over

1595
01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:36,690
there? I don't know. It might
very cool.

1596
01:49:36,690 --> 01:49:39,060
Dave Jones: I think he pulls the
fresh chapter file every time

1597
01:49:39,060 --> 01:49:45,510
you hit play. Wow. Oh, that's
cool. RP 1984 4000 says do

1598
01:49:45,510 --> 01:49:49,170
fountain he says FYI, office
hours. 2.0 has been playing V

1599
01:49:49,170 --> 01:49:53,760
for V music recently. Okay,
office hours. That's Jupiter.

1600
01:49:53,970 --> 01:49:59,220
Chris. Over there. Jupiter
broadcasting cool. Cameron 9999,

1601
01:49:59,220 --> 01:50:01,680
I'm assuming This is the Cameron

1602
01:50:01,710 --> 01:50:05,160
Adam Curry: the Cameron of IPFS.
Podcasting. dotnet

1603
01:50:05,640 --> 01:50:08,280
Dave Jones: Yes. And this Depop
verse he says, hell yeah for the

1604
01:50:08,280 --> 01:50:11,760
split calculator. Oh, yes.
Sounds like something he would

1605
01:50:11,760 --> 01:50:18,450
say. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's on
the to do list. Todd from

1606
01:50:18,450 --> 01:50:21,900
Northern Virginia 22 to 22.
Well, the voices really crack

1607
01:50:21,900 --> 01:50:21,990
and

1608
01:50:21,990 --> 01:50:23,460
Adam Curry: you're almost there,
brother. Hang in.

1609
01:50:24,030 --> 01:50:24,930
Dave Jones: I see the light.

1610
01:50:26,280 --> 01:50:28,350
Adam Curry: You like remember
that episode, The Brady Bunch

1611
01:50:28,350 --> 01:50:32,130
where the kid's voice starts to
change. Greg. Greg one of them.

1612
01:50:33,030 --> 01:50:35,550
Can't sing was the partridge
with May was the Partridge

1613
01:50:35,550 --> 01:50:38,100
Family. I can't remember. No, I
know it's Brady was Brady Bunch,

1614
01:50:38,460 --> 01:50:40,260
Dave Jones: because the song was
changed

1615
01:50:44,250 --> 01:50:47,280
Adam Curry: that you're just
like that. Oh, thanks. Yeah,

1616
01:50:47,280 --> 01:50:49,260
you're welcome. You're welcome.
You're welcome.

1617
01:50:49,290 --> 01:50:53,940
Dave Jones: You only you can see
my braces. Todd from Northern va

1618
01:50:53,940 --> 01:50:58,200
22 to 22 through pod verse he
says. Road ducks go podcasting.

1619
01:50:59,220 --> 01:51:03,990
Adam Curry: Man you are really
on the last party. I know what

1620
01:51:03,990 --> 01:51:04,800
this feels like.

1621
01:51:06,630 --> 01:51:13,440
Dave Jones: fussy. slewed. 54321
through fountain he says, I my

1622
01:51:13,440 --> 01:51:22,140
wife is a gypsy and I'm a
Romanian and you talk Yes. And

1623
01:51:22,140 --> 01:51:25,380
using the word Romani as the new
word for gypsy is cultural

1624
01:51:25,380 --> 01:51:31,320
appropriation by the gypsies.
Okay. Also the stereotypes you

1625
01:51:31,320 --> 01:51:34,170
were throwing out as far as
envisioning a gypsy are mostly

1626
01:51:34,170 --> 01:51:34,710
accurate

1627
01:51:35,549 --> 01:51:37,769
Adam Curry: with a blouse and
the gold earrings and the nose

1628
01:51:37,769 --> 01:51:40,169
ring Yes. All right. We Nailed
it. Nailed it.

1629
01:51:41,880 --> 01:51:46,110
Dave Jones: CASP eland 3693
Found any says fix the license

1630
01:51:46,110 --> 01:51:53,250
thanks for the work. Guys Kyron
1111 a satchel Richards the

1631
01:51:53,250 --> 01:51:57,240
podcast indexer says Could you
explain what the MK Ultra chat

1632
01:51:57,240 --> 01:52:00,000
is? Again, please, I want to
start looking at getting a chat

1633
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:02,700
room for my podcast. Is this
something that would suit my use

1634
01:52:02,700 --> 01:52:10,470
case? The answer is eventually
Yes. Right now No. Because it's

1635
01:52:11,310 --> 01:52:20,430
it's still in pieces. Chat Room
for the the MK Ultra chat is is

1636
01:52:20,460 --> 01:52:24,180
a ephemeral chat where you spin
up a chat room and it just lasts

1637
01:52:24,180 --> 01:52:28,560
as long as the show so that's
the way that works. I will

1638
01:52:28,860 --> 01:52:33,120
eventually get back to that
project but I would say for a

1639
01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:38,070
chat room look at something like
I mean just use activity pub

1640
01:52:38,100 --> 01:52:43,620
honestly just be it throw it
through as a that's my chat

1641
01:52:43,620 --> 01:52:43,920
room.

1642
01:52:44,550 --> 01:52:46,350
Adam Curry: Oh, that's an IRC
channel.

1643
01:52:47,460 --> 01:52:49,380
Dave Jones: Yeah, if you jump on
IRC

1644
01:52:49,440 --> 01:52:51,990
Adam Curry: I think you can use
the void zero.net and create a

1645
01:52:51,990 --> 01:52:56,010
channel Yeah, great. I think
you're free to do that they're

1646
01:52:57,180 --> 01:53:00,930
not gonna last mortals will have
severe void zero to hook you up.

1647
01:53:01,650 --> 01:53:04,650
Okay, and be just like just like
we're just like the big boys

1648
01:53:04,650 --> 01:53:05,760
just like the pros Carmen

1649
01:53:06,450 --> 01:53:13,230
Dave Jones: the Pro. Let's see
33 over 10 69,000 SATs breeze Oh

1650
01:53:13,230 --> 01:53:17,280
through breeze Oh, he says my
boost was short probably

1651
01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:20,700
lightning liquidity things so
here's the rest JC days lost his

1652
01:53:20,700 --> 01:53:22,200
Dave Moses his game.

1653
01:53:24,510 --> 01:53:27,450
Adam Curry: Okay, yeah, thank
you. I saw that come in, as

1654
01:53:27,450 --> 01:53:29,550
well. I appreciate that. You 33
Thank you.

1655
01:53:30,390 --> 01:53:34,470
Dave Jones: Nicholas B 5822 to
22 found and he says listened on

1656
01:53:34,470 --> 01:53:40,590
web needed to boost Yeah, boost.
Thank you brother. And the

1657
01:53:40,620 --> 01:53:43,230
delimiter which threw me a
curveball this week because he

1658
01:53:43,230 --> 01:53:46,740
sent 30 2015 instead of 30 3015

1659
01:53:47,790 --> 01:53:51,090
Adam Curry: Yes, this is because
of the value of Bitcoin has gone

1660
01:53:51,090 --> 01:53:54,330
up versus fiat money so he's
keeping it in check.

1661
01:53:54,900 --> 01:53:58,980
Dave Jones: Okay, he's got a
skis recalc he recalculated?

1662
01:53:58,980 --> 01:53:59,490
recalc

1663
01:53:59,490 --> 01:54:00,030
Adam Curry: recal

1664
01:54:00,090 --> 01:54:04,170
Dave Jones: Okay, cool Mr.
Blogger says howdy non Slavic

1665
01:54:04,170 --> 01:54:08,370
Caucasians days and add. Ever
wonder how much rage you're

1666
01:54:08,370 --> 01:54:17,460
packing to Planet rage. Okay.
All right. Let me I gotta

1667
01:54:17,460 --> 01:54:21,390
swallow here. To an end to
Planet rage. Where two

1668
01:54:21,390 --> 01:54:25,080
Caucasians one of them half
Slavic. Rate Your theory on the

1669
01:54:25,080 --> 01:54:29,100
latest world blunders. This
week. Biden as a war president,

1670
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:33,570
and why Keith Oberman is our
rent radar. Celebrating 100

1671
01:54:33,570 --> 01:54:37,410
Fiery episodes. Join the rage
parade because misery loves

1672
01:54:37,410 --> 01:54:42,960
comedy visit WWW dot Planit rage
dot show and let boil some blood

1673
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:44,700
together. Yo CSB.

1674
01:54:46,050 --> 01:54:49,470
Adam Curry: Thank you all very
much for your contributions.

1675
01:54:49,500 --> 01:54:54,090
I'll do a quick a quick check of
the tally coin but that's just

1676
01:54:54,120 --> 01:54:58,170
an afterthought because no one
uses it. Nope. Oh wait, I'm

1677
01:54:58,170 --> 01:55:08,370
wrong. Whoa, whoa. Get up.
Chimp. Chimp. Yep. 95,564 I'll

1678
01:55:08,370 --> 01:55:14,010
call that a baller boost. That's
tap tap. Is this thing on? Yes

1679
01:55:14,010 --> 01:55:16,110
it is. It works. You did it

1680
01:55:16,650 --> 01:55:19,380
Dave Jones: wasn't wasn't the
gym pool fees? That is a baller

1681
01:55:19,380 --> 01:55:19,980
boost. Wasn't

1682
01:55:19,980 --> 01:55:22,950
Adam Curry: that chimp the same
one that did we see chimp

1683
01:55:22,980 --> 01:55:24,090
earlier on?

1684
01:55:25,380 --> 01:55:27,600
Dave Jones: Yeah, he sent one.
Yeah, yeah.

1685
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:30,960
Adam Curry: Oh you said tallyho
maybe that was the key the code

1686
01:55:30,960 --> 01:55:36,420
word tallyho go to tally coin. I
got it. Okay, well, it nailed

1687
01:55:36,420 --> 01:55:43,410
it. Dude. You can find the
tallyho for on chain, Bitcoin at

1688
01:55:43,650 --> 01:55:46,950
podcast index.org Scroll down to
the bottom two big red buttons

1689
01:55:46,950 --> 01:55:50,730
not to the platform somebody but
to donate. One goes to the Fiat

1690
01:55:50,730 --> 01:55:55,440
fun coupon gateway which is
being used less and less each

1691
01:55:55,440 --> 01:55:59,460
day which is good. Although we
always appreciate our hosting

1692
01:55:59,460 --> 01:56:03,420
partners and Marco and people
jumping in with some some good

1693
01:56:03,420 --> 01:56:06,540
coinage at the end of the month
is highly appreciated. Also,

1694
01:56:06,540 --> 01:56:09,720
we've got a link there to the
tally coin and of course we

1695
01:56:09,750 --> 01:56:13,710
recommend that you get a
podcasting 2.0 app. It is the

1696
01:56:13,710 --> 01:56:16,470
wave of the future and we
appreciate all the support you

1697
01:56:16,470 --> 01:56:18,840
give us your time your talent
and your treasure and there's a

1698
01:56:18,840 --> 01:56:22,650
lot of the the first two T's
going around and you can find

1699
01:56:22,650 --> 01:56:25,050
that podcast index dot social
you can follow Dave at

1700
01:56:25,050 --> 01:56:27,300
podcasting. Next is social
adamant podcast index dot

1701
01:56:27,300 --> 01:56:31,590
social. Or if you really feel
you need to be on the server hit

1702
01:56:31,590 --> 01:56:34,260
us up. We'll be happy to send
you an invite link. Brother, I'm

1703
01:56:34,260 --> 01:56:37,860
gonna let you go. Get some
monthlies though we get. Oh, I'm

1704
01:56:37,860 --> 01:56:39,390
sorry. Yes, please do the
monthlies.

1705
01:56:39,660 --> 01:56:43,350
Dave Jones: You got Michael
Gagan $5 Charles current $5 Sean

1706
01:56:43,350 --> 01:56:48,180
McCune $20 Thank you. Shawn
Cohen glotzbach $5, Christopher

1707
01:56:48,180 --> 01:56:53,790
reamer $10 James Sullivan $10
Jordan Dunnville $10 Dred Scott

1708
01:56:53,970 --> 01:56:57,480
$15 and Michael Kimmerer $5.33.

1709
01:56:57,990 --> 01:57:00,810
Adam Curry: These matters. These
are really sustaining monthlies.

1710
01:57:00,810 --> 01:57:03,150
We appreciate that. We can
always count on those. Each one

1711
01:57:03,150 --> 01:57:06,360
of those is one or maybe two or
sometimes three servers. So

1712
01:57:06,360 --> 01:57:10,410
believe me, it really does
matter. Brother now I really do

1713
01:57:10,410 --> 01:57:13,200
have to You gotta stop. You
gotta stop. You gotta stop.

1714
01:57:13,200 --> 01:57:15,360
Thank you chat room. We love
you. thank everybody who's

1715
01:57:15,360 --> 01:57:18,090
listening our live studio
audience. Dave, thank you so

1716
01:57:18,090 --> 01:57:21,420
much. My brother will be talking
feel better. He'll he'll he'll

1717
01:57:21,810 --> 01:57:23,910
Thank you, man. No, he's
supposed to sit when I say he'll

1718
01:57:23,940 --> 01:57:29,280
lie. All right, everybody.
That's it for the board meeting.

1719
01:57:29,280 --> 01:57:31,710
We'll be back next Friday on the
board meeting right here

1720
01:57:31,710 --> 01:57:33,840
podcasting 2.0.

1721
01:57:50,460 --> 01:57:55,050
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast

1722
01:57:55,050 --> 01:57:57,780
index.org. For more information,

1723
01:57:58,230 --> 01:57:59,220
Adam Curry: go podcast

1724
01:58:00,720 --> 01:58:01,740
Dave Jones: to stick in your
app.