Episode 151: One Big Table

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Adam Curry: Oh, casting 2.0 for
October 20 2023, episode 151 One

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big table Well, hello, Friday
that must mean for another board

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meeting your podcast in 2.0. We
are the only boardroom that is

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not available on Youtube, who
gives you all the latest lowdown

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on modern podcasting, everything
happening with the podcast

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namespace, whatever we got going
on and podcast index.org And of

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course all the happenings of
podcast index dot social. I'm

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Adam curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country and in

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Alabama, the man who knows the
lyrics to a song for every

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modern buzzword say hello to my
friend on the other end. Ladies

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and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones.
Look. Yes, look, look. Look at

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hairy legs. Look.

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Dave Jones: I can claim rookie
status in podcasting.

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Adam Curry: Yes. What do you
say? What are you gonna say?

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Dave Jones: I mean, three, three
times in a row. That's not Adam

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curry quality.

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Adam Curry: It's been a rough
week. I I took Tina to the to

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the airport yesterday, San
Antonio. She and six girlfriends

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are now in Bryce Canyon.

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Dave Jones: I knew it. It well
knew that Tina was gone. I knew

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that before we even started the
show.

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Adam Curry: Well, that's
interesting. Because yeah, so

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here's what happened. So I take
her Wednesday. Traffic is

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horrendous. So it takes me four
hours to get there and back. And

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then and I promised chyron I
would do the mere mortals

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podcast. And so that you know,
and so I started that at 9pm. So

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I got back, you know, I
literally stopped at water

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burger jam to water burgers down
my throat. keto, right, yeah.

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Yeah, total keto. With some
salad in between the buns. The

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water burger, I'd say is
probably the most healthy of any

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type. I would still call that
basically a restaurant and not

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fast food. If there is a good
company, it's pretty faster. Run

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it faster on Thank you. Yes. So
I do that. And so now as by the

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time we're done, it's like
11 11:30am and I have the show

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the next day. So I'm up at 7am
You know, doing my, my normal

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thing. And then I had promised,
who actually was very kind a

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friend of mine had said, Hey,
why don't you we'll make dinner

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over here. Got another guy
coming over. He owns a winery.

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We'll watch the the the Astros
versus the Rangers. Which I

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guess

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Dave Jones: is something you do
you watch baseball,

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Adam Curry: which is I guess, an
important game.

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Dave Jones: This is not this.
Okay, I see where all the

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problems are starting now.

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Adam Curry: Yeah, you know, now
the guy owns a winery. This is

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the international arms dealer
and his friend who owns a very

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large, very famous winery here.
So we had some really excellent

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wine. Yeah, and then it's like,
oh, okay, I'm home and then it's

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Friday and I got to do all this
stuff because Tina is not here.

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So yeah, and then you know, so
yes, you're right. I'm out of

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sorts. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Hi,

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Dave Jones: Karen. You bastard
This is your fault.

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Adam Curry: It is a little bit
it was nice. It was it was fun

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to talk with with kind it's been
a while I think had been a year

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maybe since we had maybe even
longer since we had last time

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you did the V for V show. No, no
mere mortals. Oh, I

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Dave Jones: thought you did
memorials last time in favor of

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at this time. No, I must have
been back

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Adam Curry: no I've not done V
for V i think it's only been

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mere mortals.

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Dave Jones: Oh, which is fine.
Still queued up for me out I

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haven't listened.

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Adam Curry: You mean the last
from the last year the last time

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I did

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Dave Jones: not listen to the
last one. This new one.

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Adam Curry: So I've been
something amazing happened. I

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love it when when this happens
in in the podcasting 2.0 band of

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vagabonds because what else can
we call ourselves? This is this

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is the most

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Dave Jones: you can't say
gypsies anymore. What's the new

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word for that?

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Adam Curry: I wish I could Yeah,
gypsies is actually fine. But

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yeah, I know we'll get all kinds
of problem with the gypsies.

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Dave Jones: I'm not I'm still
not I'm still unsure why that's

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been canceled out of the
lexicon. But is that no you

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Adam Curry: can say is you can
say gypsy you can't say Jip. Oh,

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you can't say that was a gyp
become your thing racist against

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gypsies to

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Dave Jones: 2.0 band of gypsy

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Adam Curry: band of gypsies you
know what's gonna happen get

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some gypsies come and mess me
up.

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Dave Jones: Oh, Nathan G says
Romani Yeah, you're supposed to

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call a specific Romani

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Adam Curry: doesn't have quite
the appeal of gypsies. It's not

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as fun of a because I imagine
John Spurlock can was like a big

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gold earring.

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Dave Jones: Nose Nose ring.
Yeah,

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Adam Curry: no yeah, nose ring
with a skull Cadillacs wearing

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suits. With big, big, ballooning
silk shirt.

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Dave Jones: Yes, here's a
blouse,

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Adam Curry: a blouse. A blouse.
Yes. So just threw an idea out

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there about, which was inspired
by a chat I had with Alex gates

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about putting booster grams into
chapters dynamically. And here

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we are one week later and it's
running and all my shows

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Dave Jones: realized out of the
ether,

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Adam Curry: and it's working,
and it even has cool things like

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top boost. I mean, this. This
was so fast. I love you, John

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Spurlock that was hilariously
fast. Yes. So

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Dave Jones: what a great term
hilariously fast Yes. seems to

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happen in this group has
happened. Hilarious. Yes,

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Adam Curry: it's the reflex
service, which immediately makes

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me think of flat flat flat flex.
Duran Duran is the reflex. You

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don't remember the reflex Duran
Duran is reflex? I don't think a

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reflex is a lonely child his
way. Yeah, they're making up the

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lyrics here. And today, it's
already an inch in integration

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in sovereign feeds. So I don't
even have to figure it out what

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the podcast guid is, or the
episode guid pod, it goes right

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in there. Like if you just click
on the end, if you don't have

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them in your value block, it'll
add it to your value block.

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Dave Jones: And what's gonna,
what's gonna happen is we're

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gonna get so many redirects to
may enable services like this

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that like in the enclosure URL,
there's going to be like, it's

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going to start exceeding maximum
URL length sizes in in like, you

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know, host headers and stuff.
But first

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Adam Curry: headers well this
isn't on the mp3 file. This is

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only on the chapter file.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, okay. Well,
same same thing same

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Adam Curry: redirect No, no, no,
no, you grab it directly from

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him and he's if you have an
existing an existing chapter

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json file, he sucks that in and
he hands it all back on his

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reflex.io URL. So just one URL.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, but I think
it's a redirect chain because

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he's got to know where the
original was to do the pass

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through.

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Adam Curry: So yes, you're
right. Yes. You're right. You're

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right. You're right. Hey, it's
works. I don't like I can't I

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can. I mean, there's stuff going
on. I saw Andrew Gromit working

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with Mark void zero on course
headers. What exactly was that

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about?

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Dave Jones: Well, our, our our
feet, and I'm guessing it's all

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of the mp3 in a sonos.com feeds,
all of your Elvis stuff coming

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off your CDN. I'm assuming that
they all suffer from lack, of

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course, preflight.

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Adam Curry: Oh, Andrew grew up
with, by the way, Andrew Gromit

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to have him in the group. Let me
just say, Andrew from it. Yeah,

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he's

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Dave Jones: old school.

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Adam Curry: I mean, you know
him, of course, but Andrew, he

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was one of the if not the, one
of the first devs to show up

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after I put the iPod or script
out and said, help. And he

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showed up, and it was that was
the original iPod or lemon. I

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think he's what he worked on.
And that was a Windows app was

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an application. We didn't have.
It was executable. And you know,

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it was with Andrew that we
learned things like, it's not a

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good idea to download all items
in a feed the minute you

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subscribe. I mean, this is
literally the early days of

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podcasting. We had not even
thought about that stuff.

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Dave Jones: And 20 years later,
Apple podcast just fixed it.

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Good word was 20 years. Yeah,
good work. I think Andrew where?

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I think he was involved with
AECT for poets. And I mean, like

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he pops up every now and right.
Yeah.

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Adam Curry: And of course, he
was employee number one, I think

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at pod show. Oh, okay. Right.
Yeah. brought him in right away.

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And he ran the me. We do some
fun stuff. Man. We had the big

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is he a Google new? Is it? I
don't know where he is. I

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thought he was a Google most a
lot of the pod show. People went

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to Plex. We're not Plex. Now
plunk. Splunk, Splunk. Close for

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the

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Dave Jones: big day. The data

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Adam Curry: plug whisperer, and
I think a lot of them got pretty

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wealthy off of the IPO. Because
most folks got in before before

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the IPO. I suppose the big deal.
Yeah, the Splunk people did did

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well. And Andrew just a good
guy. He really is. We just have

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fun stuff. We did like the
golden ticket. This was dai

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before anyone even was thinking
about it. was him that did it

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coded that Yeah, except it
wasn't an ad but we'd put a

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golden ticket, which would be an
insert in somewhere in the

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middle of a podcast and it was
only for like Max five

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listeners. And so all of a
sudden you hear congratulations,

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you're a winner. You've got a
golden ticket. And that would be

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inserted on the fly and then
that would be for a contest or

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some promotion, which is a great
use of inserting stuff

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Dave Jones: instead of such a
clever idea. Can't believe

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nobody's resurrected that and
done it again.

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Adam Curry: Well they have it
just use it for ads now. Yes,

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but as a contest promotion yes
fantastic. It was it was really

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fun to do that stuff. We did a
lot of fun stuff until it just

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didn't get fun. And Andrew I
think he still hung in there

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after I left which is amazing.
Yeah,

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Dave Jones: well that's when it
gets really not fun when people

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start bailing out at the top and
you're still there Yeah, not fun

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at all.

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Adam Curry: Well, we also got I
can't remember why but uh,

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probably the this is investors
VC you know guy you need a real

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technical guide we got some
former Mossad Israeli guide to

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be the technology lead suite and
you know, that was my first

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experience with Oh hands what
we're doing an all hands stand

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up what stands up we're gonna
stand to inner circle and talk

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okay

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Dave Jones: like this this
tournament this is Silicon

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Valley terminology a half of it.
I still don't understand. Stand

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up. I don't even know I don't
know what a stand up is. I see

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people use this terms. These
terms all the time at halftime.

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I have no idea what they're
talking about. Well, they

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Adam Curry: literally just stand
it's just I guess to keep the

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energy high. You all stand up
and you go around. It's our

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Monday morning. It's not a good
product. It's not good. It's not

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good to do this early on Monday
morning. So

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Dave Jones: you just call it the
thing that it is it's

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Adam Curry: stand up all hands I
mean, I fall asleep

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Dave Jones: but yeah, the spirit
this this burlock extravaganza

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with the chapters was great. Oh,
he also did something very

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valuable that may have been
missed.

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Adam Curry: Oh, I put I put it
in the show notes that to be

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made. Yes. The breakdown of
which apps and blip tend to vie

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record fields and what they send
yes, this was a great idea. I

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put it in the show notes for
everybody to go check it out.

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And there's some of y'all are
deficient. Saying

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Dave Jones: we know who we are

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Adam Curry: we even I know now
who you are. I see you breeze

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not sending a good

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Dave Jones: you Yeah, there's
this this was sorely needed. And

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I was trying to communicate this
stuff individually to the app

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developers over the last you
know couple months and it was a

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better idea I like the way he
did

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Adam Curry: oh yeah cuz canal
matrix Yeah, now even I can

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shame people.

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Dave Jones: Now we can be public
everybody can be embarrassed who

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was the best?

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Adam Curry: Who was the best?
Let me see. I think curio caster

221
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has pretty much everything. And
fountain also pretty pretty cool

222
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:47,250
curio caster and cast ematic are
the only ones who have the

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reply. Custom key, which is
cool. I mean, it's not I can't

224
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use it anywhere yet. But I can
just see mail give people a

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little bit of time with with
this with this reflex service.

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And I think we'll come up with
all kinds of cool ideas. I mean,

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right off the bat, I love the
different colors. For the boost

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amount and the booster gram, I
I'd like to know how I can set a

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picture on my avatar that shows
up because I'm just like an

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empty head. Which is of course,
true to my nature. But I'm, you

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know, like to top boosting,
that's a cool little, little

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extra he jammed in there.
There's fun stuff.

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Dave Jones: I want to go look at
your show. We'll see I'm gonna

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pull that URL up. See what it
looks like.

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Adam Curry: It's a JSON man is
like Jason is some cool. Jason's

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to JSON.

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Dave Jones: template. Let's see
what what show? I guess

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yesterday has no agenda would
have it in there guy. Yeah. Oh,

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yeah. We got to look at it, see
what see what the what the

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00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,580
structure that? See, where's
this? Okay, so

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Adam Curry: what's nice about it
is and I haven't, you know, I'm

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00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:56,670
sure that an exact overlap may
never happen, but the existing

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00:13:56,670 --> 00:14:00,090
chapters that dread puts in,
which he also puts in later. So

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it's kind of cool because it
takes him a little bit to get

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the chapters and chapter images
in. And while that's happening,

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Chapter chapters are being
created with booster grams. So

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it's very lively. And I think
there was a good thread between

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00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:19,440
him and James about what's the
best way to refresh this for

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00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,030
apps, which I have no business
discussing, but I understand

250
00:14:24,030 --> 00:14:26,340
what it was about and I thought
it was good. I'm trying to

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figure out you know, what do we
do a no cash header or do

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something in a header and James
was talking about using an E tag

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or something?

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Dave Jones: Yeah. Oh, this Oh,
the chat. Steve Steven bass

255
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,840
saying we need an RSS identity
for listeners to Avatar could be

256
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in the feed. Yeah, he was
talking about that the other

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day, but then half had RSS
fingers. Web finger could play.

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That could be a role for that.

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00:14:53,970 --> 00:14:56,520
Adam Curry: Now what this is
where this is why we develop es

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OPML Dave What are you talking
about?

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Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, no, but
when things were Finger couldn't

262
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be a good I mean, that's already
in play and the activity pub

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made that a thing. Mass

264
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Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Just so
this existing profiles can be

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pulled up. I had an idea i, this
may be something you were

266
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thinking of. And because me,
it's like whenever I hear the

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new media show this, like, I get
so discouraged because I'm

268
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talking about YouTube, half the
time. And I realized that I'm

269
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kind of the same way. You know,
I'll talk about noster. Yes,

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yes. Yeah. So I don't want to go
too deep. But can we reverse?

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What's going on with this? Toe?
noster it's no secret that

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there's a lot of like, yeah, you
know, weed who needs the RSS is

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old school is sucks. You know,
relays. Yeah. Can does it make

274
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sense? Because the only thing
that's great about nostre in my

275
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mind is your it's literally your
profile. Can we tie profiles to

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feeds?

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Dave Jones: So that, you know, I
was thinking about this post by

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Adam Curry: let's check out JB
55.

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Dave Jones: JB 55. Yeah,

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Adam Curry: I have the post you
want me to read?

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Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah. Okay.

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Adam Curry: This is the damos
Damas developer. And we both saw

283
00:16:25,830 --> 00:16:31,140
it because I guess I saw someone
has the noster relay setup.

284
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Bridge. Yeah, the bridge. Yeah,
the bridge. Yeah, somehow I'm

285
00:16:35,730 --> 00:16:38,850
following this guy. So I see
him. Thanks to some analysis

286
00:16:38,850 --> 00:16:44,970
from our intern at F Oh, seven
EO b one a. According to opt in

287
00:16:44,970 --> 00:16:48,060
appstore analytics. One of the
biggest issues with Dominus is

288
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user retention. 99% of people
stop using Dominus after six

289
00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:56,700
months. In the next version,
we'll be looking at ways to get

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00:16:57,210 --> 00:17:01,170
more users to that aha moment
that gets them to stick around.

291
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,550
Like all of us addicts, ideas,
welcome. Notifications is

292
00:17:05,550 --> 00:17:09,000
obviously a big one. But maybe
we could make it easier to get

293
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,750
people there first sets and that
he follows up with an amazing

294
00:17:14,730 --> 00:17:20,700
revelation. And assists, said
it's mostly because people don't

295
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reach a moment where the app
provides value for them. That's

296
00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:30,540
this as the developer saying
this. I'm like, wow, yes. There

297
00:17:30,540 --> 00:17:35,310
you go. And if you just read
through the the comment thread,

298
00:17:35,940 --> 00:17:40,680
it's very obvious that well, a
couple of things are obvious one

299
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,640
is it's it's like a fart
sniffing circle. It's a Bitcoin

300
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,930
thing mainly. Or at least that's
what you see when you come in.

301
00:17:48,930 --> 00:17:52,890
And the other one is people kind
of really expect an algo to give

302
00:17:52,890 --> 00:17:57,360
them all kinds of stuff and and
all kinds of dopamine hits right

303
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,570
off the bat. And that's the
opposite of what of what noster

304
00:18:00,570 --> 00:18:02,250
does. Yep.

305
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,090
Dave Jones: Yep. I mean, the I
don't know if you saw my reply.

306
00:18:06,570 --> 00:18:08,910
Adam Curry: Yes, I did. I don't
know if there's that work,

307
00:18:08,910 --> 00:18:10,320
because the bridge go two ways.

308
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,700
Dave Jones: It does. Yeah, it
does go it goes both ways. Yeah.

309
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:20,310
So the really there is, this was
if this was foreseeable,

310
00:18:20,460 --> 00:18:25,860
obviously. You're exactly right,
is that the lack of an algo?

311
00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:30,570
Makes makes the lack of a
dopamine hit. And, and not a lot

312
00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:33,090
of people, you know, were there.
Yeah, it's that, you know,

313
00:18:33,090 --> 00:18:36,210
there's, there's all the normal
problems. This is not me, this

314
00:18:36,210 --> 00:18:39,060
is not immune to any of the
network effect type issues that

315
00:18:39,060 --> 00:18:45,120
we always exhibit. But it's,
there's this, there's this

316
00:18:45,450 --> 00:18:48,780
overlap. I mean, the problems
with getting people into nostre

317
00:18:48,780 --> 00:18:51,660
are the exact same problems as
getting people into Bitcoin.

318
00:18:52,860 --> 00:18:55,830
Because once you get there, you
don't know what you're supposed

319
00:18:55,830 --> 00:19:02,160
to do with. Yes, it's like,
well, I've got a lot of sets.

320
00:19:03,330 --> 00:19:06,780
Okay. Now, what do I do? Yeah,
get more sets?

321
00:19:07,950 --> 00:19:12,180
Adam Curry: Because actually,
that's stag Hodel. Yes,

322
00:19:12,449 --> 00:19:14,399
Dave Jones: the answer? That's
the same thing with the with

323
00:19:14,399 --> 00:19:15,929
Nasr. So once you get there?

324
00:19:17,910 --> 00:19:20,670
Adam Curry: I think that's I
think that's overvalued though,

325
00:19:20,670 --> 00:19:25,530
by by the NOS it. It's cool. But
I think it's, and it's also been

326
00:19:25,620 --> 00:19:29,970
crippled by by the Apple
Appstore. I think the the ZAP

327
00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:33,900
thing is, I mean, it's just it's
overvalued by the network.

328
00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:37,020
That's not what people expect
from a social network. In fact,

329
00:19:37,020 --> 00:19:41,100
they have the exact same issue
RSS has, which you can call an

330
00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:44,910
issue or not, is discovery. You
know, there's no discovery

331
00:19:44,910 --> 00:19:48,570
mechanism, the app can do that.
I mean, that would mean Domus

332
00:19:48,570 --> 00:19:52,140
has to do all kinds of stuff to
surface things and people had a

333
00:19:52,140 --> 00:19:55,560
lot of really traditional. I
love the guy that says you need

334
00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,360
to advertise on other social
networks. Yeah, I said,

335
00:20:01,530 --> 00:20:07,080
Dave Jones: Well, you know, the,
the thing here is the zaps are

336
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,830
not it. These apps are not the
aha moments apps are not the

337
00:20:10,830 --> 00:20:15,720
big. The big thing, because I
mean, you can already do that

338
00:20:16,410 --> 00:20:21,510
other places, so that the reason
boosts are a big deal within

339
00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:26,730
podcasting. 2.0 is because you
can't do it anywhere. You can't

340
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,170
it didn't exist. It's not native
to the podcasting ecosystem.

341
00:20:31,230 --> 00:20:35,490
Right. To have a to have a way
to send a message back directly

342
00:20:36,090 --> 00:20:40,110
attached, you know, scotch taped
to, to some money

343
00:20:40,140 --> 00:20:42,690
Adam Curry: was stuck with
chewing gum, actually. Yeah.

344
00:20:43,770 --> 00:20:47,790
Dave Jones: Okay. And that's not
normal within podcasting. So it

345
00:20:47,790 --> 00:20:51,540
was an aha moment. Because the
podcasters when they see that

346
00:20:51,540 --> 00:20:55,050
they're like, Whoa, this is
crazy, right? This is not that

347
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,560
this is something that's not
native to the, to the to the

348
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:04,590
protocol or the ecosystem. Zet,
zap, sending, sending a message?

349
00:21:04,860 --> 00:21:07,800
Well, that's what the that's
what noster already does. Yeah,

350
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,400
it already sends a message now.
Now you're attaching some, some

351
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,040
money to it. But you could
already do that with a lightning

352
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,210
invoice or something like that.
Why

353
00:21:15,780 --> 00:21:18,000
Adam Curry: don't you think you
can you can actually send a

354
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,870
message can you? Zap is just,
it's just a direct payment? I

355
00:21:21,870 --> 00:21:23,700
don't think there's an
opportunity to pull

356
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:25,440
Dave Jones: it out. There's a
message. There's a payload field

357
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,930
out there. Yeah. But the, but
it's not. I mean, it's like,

358
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,320
Well, okay, I mean, I can just
post a QR code and get a

359
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,270
lightning payment. I mean, it's
not, it's not revelatory, right.

360
00:21:40,620 --> 00:21:43,320
In the in the way that that it
was without even

361
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:48,270
Adam Curry: before zaps the,
the, the big deal about nostre

362
00:21:48,270 --> 00:21:53,970
was, it's censorship resistant,
which, arguably, RSS is

363
00:21:53,970 --> 00:21:56,190
censorship resistant. The proof
is in the pudding.

364
00:21:57,030 --> 00:22:00,000
Dave Jones: I would say RSS is
more censorship resistant, that

365
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,290
you go. You have less, you have
less aggregation points, right?

366
00:22:04,410 --> 00:22:07,530
Yes, he's me. Yeah. So we have
more and more aggregation within

367
00:22:07,530 --> 00:22:11,820
noster. Yeah. Because you have,
you really only have a few big,

368
00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:13,110
really big relays.

369
00:22:13,170 --> 00:22:15,570
Adam Curry: And this is, it's
really interesting. You say

370
00:22:15,570 --> 00:22:18,900
this, because this is exactly
one of the problems I get, no

371
00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:22,470
matter what app I open,
invariably, it's not connecting

372
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:25,500
to all the relays and my
followers, my subscriptions

373
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:29,070
aren't the same. They change.
And as I'm sitting there, I can

374
00:22:29,070 --> 00:22:32,340
see you go, Oh, no, I have this
many followers and have this

375
00:22:32,340 --> 00:22:35,460
many I'm following Oh, we just
went up again, because it's

376
00:22:35,460 --> 00:22:38,190
connecting to stuff. And that's
kind of the opposite of what you

377
00:22:38,190 --> 00:22:40,860
want. And that's not what your
podcast app does. Your podcast

378
00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:42,510
app says, Here's your
subscriptions.

379
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,840
Dave Jones: And they've they've
come up to this to this wall.

380
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:55,320
Yeah. To this rug. And I had an
idea of how to help them.

381
00:22:55,620 --> 00:22:59,460
Adam Curry: This was the the
tease you gave me yesterday.

382
00:23:00,750 --> 00:23:03,690
Dave Jones: So I've been
thinking, you know, we've we've

383
00:23:03,690 --> 00:23:06,870
had this discussion about
decentralizing the index even

384
00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:14,010
further. And I've been looking
into and thinking through ways

385
00:23:14,010 --> 00:23:21,540
to do that through alpha for a
long time, have wanted to do

386
00:23:21,540 --> 00:23:28,770
things over live p2p. And in
that, that DHT space within

387
00:23:28,830 --> 00:23:29,940
IPFS.

388
00:23:30,389 --> 00:23:33,089
Adam Curry: The DHT isn't
distributed hash space.

389
00:23:33,450 --> 00:23:34,560
Dave Jones: Yes, sexy,

390
00:23:35,910 --> 00:23:37,440
Adam Curry: sexy, sexy.

391
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,290
Dave Jones: So this is all
that's all good and everything.

392
00:23:40,290 --> 00:23:44,250
But but then I started thinking,
you know, that's the that's the

393
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,390
sort of, not wire level. But
that's that's it at a lower

394
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:56,400
protocol level. What would it be
interesting to extend the API,

395
00:23:56,670 --> 00:24:04,680
beyond HTTP REST, functionality
into being speaking in the

396
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:10,770
native distributed protocols. So
what I mean is like, if the API

397
00:24:10,770 --> 00:24:18,870
spoke activity pub, or if the
API spoke noster Wow. And so so

398
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:23,070
that you could these would be
sort of like, I guess to start

399
00:24:23,070 --> 00:24:27,180
with, they would be bots, maybe,
or something like that, where

400
00:24:27,180 --> 00:24:33,930
you could query the you could
query the index through this

401
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,540
through this protocol. And what
you get back so let's, let me

402
00:24:39,570 --> 00:24:44,820
let me just run through in a
possible interaction. So I

403
00:24:45,870 --> 00:24:55,140
mention in the in an in a post
on Noster, or activity pub. I

404
00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:59,790
mentioned the podcast index, and
I say something like, you know,

405
00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:03,750
I'm Searching for such and such,
you know, I want I want the the

406
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:09,930
most recent episode of
podcasting 2.0. And you get a

407
00:25:09,930 --> 00:25:15,570
reply with a bunch of links that
will open in normal podcast

408
00:25:15,570 --> 00:25:19,860
apps. Okay, you get a link for
cast ematic a link for pod pod

409
00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:23,280
verse a link for podcast guru a
link for breeze, basically, you

410
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:24,750
get you get, you can shoot

411
00:25:24,750 --> 00:25:27,390
Adam Curry: you can choose, you
can choose your, your app of

412
00:25:27,390 --> 00:25:27,990
choice.

413
00:25:28,590 --> 00:25:31,680
Dave Jones: Yeah, you get deep
links to the episode or

414
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:36,930
whatever, whatever data is being
requested. So that is because

415
00:25:36,930 --> 00:25:39,810
here's the here's, here's the
thing, in my thinking is that

416
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:48,930
you know, noster suffers from,
from what happens to a lot of

417
00:25:49,410 --> 00:25:53,340
software projects where they
feel like they have to, they

418
00:25:53,340 --> 00:25:56,970
have they're going to reinvent
everything and in this is right

419
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,060
it is it is sucking a lot of
attention and a

420
00:26:00,060 --> 00:26:02,190
Adam Curry: lot probably good
development resources,

421
00:26:03,210 --> 00:26:06,780
Dave Jones: and horsepower, away
from things that are are that

422
00:26:06,780 --> 00:26:12,060
are away from things that are
already working and working

423
00:26:12,060 --> 00:26:17,550
fine. And also in like this is
it's a distraction is what I'm

424
00:26:17,550 --> 00:26:21,810
saying is a it is a distraction,
because the the the retention

425
00:26:21,810 --> 00:26:24,810
and all this stuff that all
these things we know is that is

426
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,540
does a huge problem, and it's
not going to get any better.

427
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:33,030
inst this would be a way to sort
of meet people where they are.

428
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,680
And instead of, hey, let's
reinvent podcasting on noster.

429
00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:40,920
Adam Curry: Why don't we extend
it to Nasir

430
00:26:41,370 --> 00:26:45,480
Dave Jones: extend it to Nasir
extend it to activity pub so

431
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,070
that what you get is not playing
a podcast in nostre, which let's

432
00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:54,360
all agree is going to be a
horrible? Yes, it's gonna suck

433
00:26:54,420 --> 00:26:59,070
Adam Curry: is this. So with
activity pub, let's just take

434
00:26:59,070 --> 00:27:00,930
these two protocols. I mean,
there's a couple more I can

435
00:27:00,930 --> 00:27:07,950
think of. Can we make it to
weigh now, sir? Well, it comes

436
00:27:07,950 --> 00:27:14,220
back to the the one thing when I
if I send the booths, I'd like

437
00:27:14,220 --> 00:27:16,890
my profile picture to show up.
So you can pull that in from

438
00:27:16,890 --> 00:27:26,760
activity pub, or web finger or
whatever it is. Right. Possibly,

439
00:27:26,850 --> 00:27:28,800
Dave Jones: I mean, well, you
know, because then we're getting

440
00:27:28,830 --> 00:27:33,060
them we're starting to see, I
guess the reason I'm the hemming

441
00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:38,940
and hawing is my, my idea is
really about, like, returning

442
00:27:38,940 --> 00:27:44,130
focus to to actual podcasting,
and podcast apps. You know, our,

443
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:49,830
our core mission is podcast
apps, podcast, app developer

444
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:54,930
support, right. We support
podcast app developers, I had a

445
00:27:54,930 --> 00:27:59,850
guy. Email me, a guy that we
know, email me over the weekend

446
00:27:59,850 --> 00:28:04,260
is saying look at the Apple API
is just having outage after

447
00:28:04,260 --> 00:28:09,720
outage is killing me. Oh,
really? What? Yeah. And his, his

448
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,470
Platt, his service depends on
it. And he's like, it's just,

449
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:18,300
it's just wearing me out. And I
was like, yeah, he's like, it's

450
00:28:18,300 --> 00:28:20,850
a real problem. I'm thinking
about switching over to

451
00:28:23,010 --> 00:28:24,780
anything. He said, I'm thinking
about switching over to the

452
00:28:24,780 --> 00:28:28,620
Index API, just because I'm
having so many reliability

453
00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:31,320
issues. And this is a money
making service for him. It's not

454
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,900
a it's not I don't think it's
his full time gig. But it is

455
00:28:33,930 --> 00:28:37,110
definitely a profitable side
hustle. Right? And I was like,

456
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:42,900
Well, you know, we have this
thing. Now we have two endpoints

457
00:28:44,190 --> 00:28:48,120
where you can where they mimic
the apple API,

458
00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:51,120
Adam Curry: right? And you can
just drop it right in? Yeah,

459
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,640
just change the DNS, basically.
And you're good to go.

460
00:28:53,940 --> 00:28:56,610
Dave Jones: Yeah, you have one
outage, you flew temporary, you

461
00:28:56,610 --> 00:29:00,840
detect one outage on an API call
to Apple, switch those switch to

462
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,690
us for let's say a few minutes,
then test it and then try to

463
00:29:03,690 --> 00:29:07,560
flip that you do a failover and
failback. Right. And he was

464
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:08,730
like, OMG.

465
00:29:10,650 --> 00:29:11,970
Adam Curry: You got an OMG. Oh,

466
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:17,520
Dave Jones: gee. And you and so
he was like, this is exactly

467
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,140
what I needed. And like that is
that is where that's what we do.

468
00:29:22,740 --> 00:29:25,680
That's the kind of developer
podcast app developer support we

469
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:32,490
do. Because I'm thinking part of
podcast app developer support

470
00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:37,680
is, is also running a little bit
of interference and playing

471
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,570
defense. So for when we see
things coming along, that are

472
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:48,540
distracting everybody away from
podcast apps, to these other

473
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:54,090
sort of wasteful side prod these
wasteful distractions, like,

474
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,330
like let's reinvent podcasting
on noster hot How about let's

475
00:29:57,330 --> 00:29:58,140
not do that?

476
00:29:58,260 --> 00:30:01,710
Adam Curry: Yeah, how about weed
so okay. So you're saying just

477
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,900
make the API speak noster native
app, then you can and in

478
00:30:06,900 --> 00:30:11,760
essence, then we have a whole
universe of developers who can

479
00:30:11,910 --> 00:30:15,780
do podcast apps in Nastar. Is
that what I'm hearing you say?

480
00:30:15,809 --> 00:30:19,049
Dave Jones: No, no, no, I
understand that. You think that

481
00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:20,939
that you think that's what I'm
saying. But what I'm saying is

482
00:30:20,939 --> 00:30:27,449
like, we we give back results in
a way that always opens up the

483
00:30:27,449 --> 00:30:32,999
content in a real podcast app.
Okay, good. And it removes the

484
00:30:32,999 --> 00:30:39,449
need. It removes the need to do
anything back riding in Nostrum.

485
00:30:39,449 --> 00:30:43,259
Right? And they can open it like
if they're hardcore Bitcoin

486
00:30:43,259 --> 00:30:46,559
bros, they can open it up in
breeze or something, roaches

487
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:49,169
fine, but we give, we give back
links to real.

488
00:30:50,009 --> 00:30:52,829
Adam Curry: Okay, I see what
you're saying. And then so the

489
00:30:52,859 --> 00:30:56,399
the mechanism is you'd
determine, Okay, I have this as

490
00:30:56,399 --> 00:31:03,329
my podcast app. And now when I
want to get something, an

491
00:31:03,329 --> 00:31:07,259
episode, a podcast or whatever
the query is, it will then open

492
00:31:07,259 --> 00:31:11,069
in the podcast app I already
use. Yeah, that's pretty deep.

493
00:31:11,069 --> 00:31:14,429
Actually. That's that's
something that hasn't existed I

494
00:31:14,429 --> 00:31:17,639
don't think well as dependent

495
00:31:18,180 --> 00:31:22,200
Dave Jones: is once you once, if
we start communicating on that

496
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,190
platform in that way, and make
it easy for people to do that by

497
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:31,140
by these shareable links, or
whatever it is. It it just gets

498
00:31:31,140 --> 00:31:35,940
rid of this desire to recreate
everything on recreate

499
00:31:35,940 --> 00:31:38,310
podcasting on Nasr because
there's now there's no need,

500
00:31:38,790 --> 00:31:42,270
everybody can use the content,
they can use the RSS feeds, all

501
00:31:42,270 --> 00:31:45,330
these all these Bitcoin
podcasters. They all, they all

502
00:31:45,330 --> 00:31:50,880
have RSS feeds. Yeah. As they
should. So rather than try to, I

503
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,580
think it would be a relief to a
lot of people over there to be

504
00:31:53,580 --> 00:32:02,430
able to just have their existing
content open in existing apps.

505
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,940
But make it easy for the
platform to do that, rather than

506
00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:08,730
having to do all this ridiculous
development work.

507
00:32:09,810 --> 00:32:11,850
Adam Curry: I don't know if you
if you if you remove that

508
00:32:11,850 --> 00:32:13,890
desire, but it would certainly
help.

509
00:32:14,910 --> 00:32:19,020
Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, I
don't know. It's just it's, I'm,

510
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:24,090
I'm afraid that they're going to
try that they're going to try to

511
00:32:24,090 --> 00:32:27,330
go down this road because
they're see what that post made

512
00:32:27,330 --> 00:32:30,240
me think, Oh, they're searching
for a killer app, they're

513
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,420
searching for the killer
feature, and they're gonna come

514
00:32:33,420 --> 00:32:36,630
around to it is going to be
podcasting. And then this is

515
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:40,470
going to it's going to be five
years of development work, and

516
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:44,670
it's still going to suck and
instill all the contents not

517
00:32:44,670 --> 00:32:47,880
going to be there. I just feel
like this waste of time that's

518
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,900
imminent. And I'm trying to
prevent it. And at the same

519
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:55,260
time, but at the same time, we
need to activity pub to, like,

520
00:32:56,010 --> 00:32:59,880
if we start thinking about these
protocols, which there's not a

521
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:01,920
lot, there's not a lot of them.
And we started thinking about

522
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,280
these distributed decentralized
protocols, we could we could

523
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:11,130
just make the index play nice
with those because the rest HTTP

524
00:33:12,060 --> 00:33:19,080
as an 80, as an API language is
not. I mean, it's fine. But it's

525
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,820
a hacky Cluj to a stick, this is
all this, these are all clue,

526
00:33:23,820 --> 00:33:27,960
just so why not have you know, I
just think we should go to where

527
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:28,620
people are.

528
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,610
Adam Curry: I think that's, I
think it's fantastic. I think

529
00:33:32,610 --> 00:33:40,920
it's a great idea. Okay. I'm all
in. Yeah, rip it. RIP and

530
00:33:41,010 --> 00:33:41,760
definitely.

531
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,010
Dave Jones: Okay, I'll I will
begin mapping that out what that

532
00:33:47,010 --> 00:33:50,610
will look like. And I mean,
we've already got it, which by

533
00:33:50,610 --> 00:33:55,200
the by the way, that the chat,
the MK Ultra chat has been

534
00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:01,710
laying languishing, yes. But
it's like the same chat room has

535
00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:05,610
been running for like, I don't
know, three months. I don't even

536
00:34:05,610 --> 00:34:07,950
know what's going on today. They
could be all kinds of porn and

537
00:34:07,950 --> 00:34:09,540
escort services. I have no,

538
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,360
Adam Curry: the one I had the
link I had is not a live

539
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,330
session. So I guess that doesn't
work anymore. I don't know what

540
00:34:15,330 --> 00:34:17,490
the what the current MK Ultra
chat is.

541
00:34:17,969 --> 00:34:20,099
Dave Jones: Oh, there's some
Chinese in there. That's cool.

542
00:34:20,129 --> 00:34:23,729
Really? Yeah, I just I just
clicked on the link. Yeah,

543
00:34:23,729 --> 00:34:25,169
somebody's posted some Chinese.

544
00:34:26,850 --> 00:34:30,030
Adam Curry: Of course. Why does
that not surprise me?

545
00:34:30,540 --> 00:34:32,400
Dave Jones: Yeah, this is
probably I probably need to get

546
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,910
back to this. Anyway, that this.
So we've already we've already

547
00:34:35,910 --> 00:34:38,010
what I'm saying like we've
already got some of the code for

548
00:34:38,010 --> 00:34:42,720
that. That could adapt the
nostril part of MK Ultra stuff

549
00:34:43,290 --> 00:34:48,270
to just start off by just
creating a bot. And in have that

550
00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:51,150
be something that people can
interact with. So you can

551
00:34:51,150 --> 00:34:54,540
Adam Curry: just query it and
it'll hand it back. Yeah, nice.

552
00:34:54,870 --> 00:34:58,110
Yeah. That's a cool idea. Okay,
thanks.

553
00:34:59,010 --> 00:35:01,560
Dave Jones: I'll start mapping
it out. So before we start

554
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:01,950
finished, as

555
00:35:02,460 --> 00:35:05,130
Adam Curry: I said, before you
start mapping it out. Do we have

556
00:35:05,130 --> 00:35:08,460
all the remote item stuff on the
table? Still? Oh, of course not.

557
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,300
Because I'm a little more hot on
that than anything,

558
00:35:12,780 --> 00:35:16,140
Dave Jones: I will start mapping
that stuff out after I finished

559
00:35:16,140 --> 00:35:23,910
this, the remote. So where I'm
at with road item is there's a

560
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:32,460
new a new parameter that you can
pass to the by to the podcast by

561
00:35:32,460 --> 00:35:41,760
tag in point index, to give you
all of the RSS feeds that

562
00:35:41,790 --> 00:35:45,150
include a value time split.

563
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:46,980
Adam Curry: Ooh, nice.

564
00:35:48,270 --> 00:35:50,610
Dave Jones: So this is a multi
flow, this is sort of a multi

565
00:35:50,610 --> 00:35:57,630
phase approach here. Because
number one, the number one need

566
00:35:57,630 --> 00:36:02,220
is for people to be able to find
shows their number one need

567
00:36:02,220 --> 00:36:07,200
right now is for people to need
to be able to find shows that

568
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:12,420
reference other shows with a
value time split. Because that's

569
00:36:12,420 --> 00:36:15,750
how people are going to find
shows like booster gram ball

570
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:21,390
lightning thrashes. It's a mood.
The these, these are the, this

571
00:36:21,390 --> 00:36:24,240
is the type of discovery that
people need immediately. We've

572
00:36:24,270 --> 00:36:27,150
we already you know, we so I can
go over WaveLight needs it,

573
00:36:27,180 --> 00:36:30,180
Adam Curry: right. So I can I
can see, I can find shows that

574
00:36:30,180 --> 00:36:33,690
have remote items that contain
medium equals music.

575
00:36:37,350 --> 00:36:40,890
Dave Jones: That's, that's part
two. Okay. All right. Yeah. So

576
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:44,220
right now what it does is it
just gives you a list of all the

577
00:36:44,220 --> 00:36:51,900
feeds that that have a value
time split at all. And then, so

578
00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:59,610
then step two, will be being
able to begin to filter that to

579
00:36:59,610 --> 00:37:04,710
say, Okay, I want value shows
with value time splits, that

580
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:12,930
also have this other quality
about them. Like, so. Here's the

581
00:37:12,930 --> 00:37:23,610
issue. Here's an issue. The
value time split can contain two

582
00:37:23,610 --> 00:37:31,860
different things. It can contain
a direct value recipient tag

583
00:37:31,890 --> 00:37:37,530
with a key send address. Or it
can contain a remote item, which

584
00:37:37,530 --> 00:37:42,990
references a different feed.
Right. So right now, so in the

585
00:37:42,990 --> 00:37:48,870
in the database, right now I've
got, I've got one table, which

586
00:37:48,870 --> 00:37:54,120
is value, time splits. And the
value time splits are being

587
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,710
pulled in with their timestamps
and their durations, and that

588
00:37:58,710 --> 00:38:03,270
kind of thing. And then what I
had was two other tables, I had

589
00:38:04,860 --> 00:38:10,230
a value, recipients table and a
vote and a remote item table.

590
00:38:11,820 --> 00:38:15,780
And now, I'm now rethinking that
because what I was going to do

591
00:38:15,810 --> 00:38:20,010
this just thinking as a database
for a minute. You know, I'm

592
00:38:20,010 --> 00:38:24,060
thinking okay, what we have is
three unique objects unique sort

593
00:38:24,060 --> 00:38:29,070
of structures here are three
unique objects. You have value,

594
00:38:29,070 --> 00:38:35,430
time splits, value recipients,
and remote items. What you kind

595
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:41,010
of want to do your two tendency
your as a database person is to

596
00:38:41,010 --> 00:38:43,830
have three different strokes,
you know, is to have three

597
00:38:43,830 --> 00:38:47,670
different repositories for those
different item types so that you

598
00:38:47,670 --> 00:38:53,100
can schema them and then have
relation links between those

599
00:38:53,100 --> 00:38:58,050
tables. So that I can have Okay,
value time split, this value

600
00:38:58,050 --> 00:39:03,360
time split references, this
remote item. But this other

601
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,230
value time split references,
this value recipient.

602
00:39:07,950 --> 00:39:10,650
Adam Curry: Ooh, okay, I see.
This is gonna be great for the

603
00:39:10,650 --> 00:39:12,060
PWA I'm developing.

604
00:39:12,540 --> 00:39:16,170
Dave Jones: Yeah. Just while I'm
telling you this. Do you want

605
00:39:16,170 --> 00:39:17,160
this information? Yes.

606
00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:21,630
Adam Curry: grommet listen up.
I'm stealing grommets gonna pop

607
00:39:21,630 --> 00:39:24,810
out with a progressive web app.
It's gonna be like what?

608
00:39:25,109 --> 00:39:27,239
Dave Jones: Yeah, to nowhere.
Yeah, it's gonna blow it. Yeah.

609
00:39:30,059 --> 00:39:35,279
But, but um, you know, because
it's elegant on paper, doesn't

610
00:39:35,279 --> 00:39:35,819
mean doesn't mean.

611
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,800
Adam Curry: Okay. Yeah. Well,
database is voodoo.

612
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:47,070
Dave Jones: It's a quote, to
quote Captain Picard. From next

613
00:39:47,070 --> 00:39:54,330
generation. You can make all the
right decisions and still lose.

614
00:39:55,770 --> 00:40:02,580
So what what's your you know?
The issue here is it, it becomes

615
00:40:02,580 --> 00:40:08,130
very difficult to track these
things on subsequent runs, to

616
00:40:08,130 --> 00:40:10,890
see if they're the actually the
same thing as what you had

617
00:40:10,890 --> 00:40:15,420
before. So if somebody, if
somebody had a remote if there

618
00:40:15,420 --> 00:40:23,820
was a value time split, and it
contained a reference to a value

619
00:40:23,820 --> 00:40:27,810
recipient, and now on the next
run of the aggregator it

620
00:40:27,810 --> 00:40:31,860
contains, it's been changed by
the, by the podcaster, to now

621
00:40:32,130 --> 00:40:40,350
contain a remote item reference.
And they also put in they also,

622
00:40:40,350 --> 00:40:43,560
let's say, they changed a
duration, slightly, maybe it's

623
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:49,140
one second, it was just it was
unintentional. How do I know,

624
00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:53,700
it's not really possible to know
that that's the same thing. This

625
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:57,360
is all this is very, this
becomes very messy, because

626
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,600
there's no, there's no unique
identifiers to any of this stuff

627
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:07,290
in the feed. It's just the
nature of RSS, right? So it's, I

628
00:41:07,290 --> 00:41:09,990
think, the better option and the
reason this, I'm saying all

629
00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:13,530
this, because this is why it's
taking me a while I think the

630
00:41:13,530 --> 00:41:17,880
better option is to ditch that
strategy. And just put it all in

631
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,620
a single table. They put it all
extend this the value time

632
00:41:22,620 --> 00:41:24,570
splits, table schema,

633
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,740
Adam Curry: doing whole include
the the payment value

634
00:41:28,740 --> 00:41:29,520
information,

635
00:41:30,060 --> 00:41:33,480
Dave Jones: allow it to hold all
possible data that could

636
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,880
possibly be in the children
tags, everything. So that it's

637
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,790
gonna it's ugly looking, it's
not as elegant as the other

638
00:41:41,790 --> 00:41:46,050
approach. But it also gives you
because, you know, the thinking

639
00:41:46,050 --> 00:41:49,260
with the other approach is that
if two different podcasts

640
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:52,140
referenced a remote item that
was identical, you don't have to

641
00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:54,750
duplicate you have, you just
have two pointers to the same

642
00:41:54,750 --> 00:41:58,110
data, right? But this is just a
this is this is this is

643
00:41:58,110 --> 00:42:05,130
silliness. So, I think I'm gonna
go in and I'm gonna change this,

644
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,400
this schema, and I'm just going
to reset this back to I'm going

645
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:13,860
to do it the ugly way. So that
we get something that works

646
00:42:13,980 --> 00:42:16,980
Adam Curry: better. Something
that actually functions Yes.

647
00:42:17,490 --> 00:42:20,520
Dave Jones: is ugly and works
better than beautiful and

648
00:42:20,670 --> 00:42:21,360
broken. Yeah.

649
00:42:21,750 --> 00:42:24,030
Adam Curry: Basically like
reading the feed in real time.

650
00:42:24,030 --> 00:42:26,460
Okay, here it is. I gotcha.
Because of course, we have lots

651
00:42:26,460 --> 00:42:29,790
of remote items or lots of feeds
pointing to the same remote

652
00:42:29,790 --> 00:42:34,080
item. A lot of Ainsley Costello
example.

653
00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:36,660
Dave Jones: Yeah. And the
developer computer person in us

654
00:42:36,660 --> 00:42:39,360
like, Man, I don't want to
duplicate I don't understand.

655
00:42:39,930 --> 00:42:41,910
Really, we can we can do this,
right, it

656
00:42:41,910 --> 00:42:44,220
Adam Curry: was the way you're
the way you're doing it is

657
00:42:44,340 --> 00:42:50,880
that's the Adam curry way. One
big table in an Access database.

658
00:42:50,910 --> 00:42:53,700
Dave Jones: Yeah, that's me. And
so anyway, that that, so that's

659
00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:57,300
what's next. And once once we do
that, it'll be pretty, pretty

660
00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:59,970
simple. It'll go pretty quick.
next couple of days, I should

661
00:42:59,970 --> 00:43:06,270
have that finished. Cool. And
then then you can start to then

662
00:43:06,270 --> 00:43:09,600
we can start to actually filter
you know, do some filtration on

663
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,060
the stuff and say, Okay, here's
because right now it's just

664
00:43:12,060 --> 00:43:14,250
giving you the feeds back what
it needs to give you back is the

665
00:43:14,250 --> 00:43:19,410
values the feed and the value
time split data, right. So that

666
00:43:19,410 --> 00:43:23,070
you can then say, okay, there's
a there's a piece of music

667
00:43:23,610 --> 00:43:25,620
that's being referenced what
should that you know, what is

668
00:43:25,620 --> 00:43:30,000
that and blah blah blah. Anyway,
so that's where we're at with it

669
00:43:30,030 --> 00:43:34,020
it's we have something there so
that people if they want to

670
00:43:34,020 --> 00:43:37,230
dependent into start to find
shows that reference other shows

671
00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:41,730
like wave like that go Go for
it. I mean, that's that's ready.

672
00:43:43,140 --> 00:43:49,740
Adam Curry: quick plug for ln
beats, the radio tab now has 13

673
00:43:49,950 --> 00:43:57,000
shows. So if homegrown hits it's
a mood, mutton meeting and music

674
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,240
that's OYSTEIN OYSTEIN burgers
very funny. Bookstagram ball

675
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:09,660
Blackhat music was it Blackhat
music podcast phantom power

676
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,320
before the scheme's lightning
thrashed power.

677
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:14,790
Dave Jones: That's a great name
for a show

678
00:44:14,850 --> 00:44:18,000
Adam Curry: that will phantom
you know, that's phantom power

679
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:25,890
music. Our that's the that's the
Costello's. That's Julie and

680
00:44:25,890 --> 00:44:26,310
Jim.

681
00:44:27,060 --> 00:44:28,530
Dave Jones: That's a great
That's a great name for right

682
00:44:28,530 --> 00:44:29,820
now. Dig it? Yeah,

683
00:44:29,970 --> 00:44:32,580
Adam Curry: I had a long chat
with them. Surprise.

684
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,210
Dave Jones: Anything you can
talk about? Yeah, of

685
00:44:36,210 --> 00:44:39,840
Adam Curry: course, of course.
Okay. So, you know, I've had

686
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,440
several calls. I think a lot of
people have had calls with Julie

687
00:44:44,310 --> 00:44:48,300
then after ever had a call with
Julian. So one Do you have a Do

688
00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:55,860
you have an afternoon I'm just
busting on your duly noted

689
00:44:55,860 --> 00:44:59,460
because, you know, I realized
that there was this huge

690
00:44:59,460 --> 00:45:03,060
disconnect. Next, huge
disconnect because they, they

691
00:45:03,060 --> 00:45:08,070
basically started at wavelength
with no data. You know, they're

692
00:45:08,070 --> 00:45:11,730
only just now starting to
understand the to V records

693
00:45:11,730 --> 00:45:13,980
because they've never seen a
booster gram from coming through

694
00:45:13,980 --> 00:45:18,300
wave Lake and all that will
come, I'm sure. So there's all

695
00:45:18,330 --> 00:45:20,640
and there's all these
presumptions like, oh, well, you

696
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,210
know, don't you see this? Don't?
Don't you get it? No, no, no, I

697
00:45:24,210 --> 00:45:26,670
haven't seen this don't
understand. And then there's

698
00:45:26,670 --> 00:45:30,810
just, you know, enthusiasm from
so many different sides. Lots,

699
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,230
lots of enthusiasm. And that's
really what it is. But the

700
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:38,970
enthusiasm gets wrapped up in
voltage saying, yeah, here's how

701
00:45:38,970 --> 00:45:41,610
you can do this. And that, like
what and then you need liquidity

702
00:45:41,610 --> 00:45:44,340
and like what you know, and all,
all of a sudden, Everyone's just

703
00:45:44,340 --> 00:45:47,520
really confused. Yeah, they go
down the lightning spiral. Yeah,

704
00:45:47,610 --> 00:45:50,160
a little bit of the lightning
spiral. You know, the long

705
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,370
conversation by the way. Sam
Sethi. Yes. It's working. I see

706
00:45:53,370 --> 00:45:53,610
you.

707
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,130
Dave Jones: I see you, bro. Yes,
yeah,

708
00:45:56,460 --> 00:45:59,010
Adam Curry: it's working. It's
really working. I see the 10,000

709
00:45:59,010 --> 00:46:02,760
SATs. I see that your TLV record
is beautiful.

710
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:05,670
Dave Jones: Let me see. Zan pour
glass of wine brother.

711
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:08,460
Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm gonna
stop. I see your tests. It's all

712
00:46:08,460 --> 00:46:14,220
working. Yes, that we Yes,
definitely. You know, Sam is

713
00:46:14,220 --> 00:46:18,720
trying to help them. And Sam,
the pot fans is something

714
00:46:19,050 --> 00:46:23,730
different altogether, which,
luckily, Sam wants to give us

715
00:46:23,730 --> 00:46:28,980
another demo. Yes, he's also
always we walk away from Sam's

716
00:46:28,980 --> 00:46:32,400
demos like, what did I just see?
Like, there's a lot going on

717
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:33,720
there. You know, because there's

718
00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:35,160
Dave Jones: 8000 tags. Yes,

719
00:46:35,220 --> 00:46:36,660
Adam Curry: he's, you know, he's
creating as

720
00:46:36,660 --> 00:46:38,760
Dave Jones: we add tags we just
mentioned in the show was

721
00:46:39,540 --> 00:46:43,950
Adam Curry: never there. Because
there's all this stuff that but

722
00:46:43,950 --> 00:46:47,520
he's building a real platform
for interaction. And it makes a

723
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,930
lot of sense for, for artists.
And so he's got all kinds of all

724
00:46:51,930 --> 00:46:58,500
kinds of things integrated. But
the basics, the the real basics

725
00:46:58,530 --> 00:47:06,000
of how do we take existing
artists who are in the existing

726
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,800
system, which is not the system
that I grew up with this, so

727
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,560
they really gave me an
education. And it was only it

728
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:18,870
was only two hours, it wasn't
too bad. So they gave me and Jim

729
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:22,140
send over this huge he sent over
spreadsheets. And he says you

730
00:47:22,140 --> 00:47:26,400
got to understand that sweet
when it comes to with real world

731
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,090
examples. You know, when it
comes to this, you have the the

732
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,870
the writing of the song, the
composition of the song, which

733
00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:38,040
you know, lyrics itself can be
10 different people. And that's

734
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,370
not uncommon in today's music
business, hey, I was in the

735
00:47:41,370 --> 00:47:44,910
room, okay, you get a
percentage. I think the joke in

736
00:47:44,910 --> 00:47:49,080
Nashville is you write one, one
word, you get a third of the

737
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,310
song, something like that. It's
that kind of stuff. But then

738
00:47:53,310 --> 00:47:58,920
there's the publishing side,
which is an ownership of, of the

739
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,480
song, and then you have the
master. And with the Master,

740
00:48:03,690 --> 00:48:06,990
there's tip. So that's really
someone who owns the product.

741
00:48:07,230 --> 00:48:11,430
And there's this recoupment that
you need to have in place. So I

742
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:17,610
paid for the studio time. So I
need to receive my $1,000 Off

743
00:48:17,610 --> 00:48:22,770
the top before anybody else gets
something. Except for the for

744
00:48:22,770 --> 00:48:26,010
the writer and the composer,
writers and composers.

745
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,970
Dave Jones: Okay, so you're so
you're saying that, the it's not

746
00:48:29,970 --> 00:48:32,580
just about who gets what
percentages? It's about also

747
00:48:32,580 --> 00:48:34,800
about the order in which they
get them? Yes,

748
00:48:34,830 --> 00:48:39,570
Adam Curry: yes. And so they
didn't have some basic knowledge

749
00:48:39,570 --> 00:48:44,220
of like, well, so not knowing
that you that in a TLV record in

750
00:48:44,220 --> 00:48:48,090
a payment, you can see what you
receive, but also what the total

751
00:48:48,090 --> 00:48:51,930
amount was. This is a big deal.
They didn't, they didn't know

752
00:48:51,930 --> 00:48:55,530
that. And that's really, really
cool. Because you don't have to

753
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,350
come up with complicated, you
know, smart cars that were

754
00:48:58,350 --> 00:49:01,560
talking and smart contracts and
eath I'm like, okay, stop, you.

755
00:49:01,590 --> 00:49:06,510
Stop, stop, stop. Because you
can, you know, Yarrow, yes, the

756
00:49:06,510 --> 00:49:11,520
recoupment. I said the easiest
way to do it is if it's $1,000

757
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,060
Off the top or whatever it is,
give everybody a 1% split

758
00:49:15,060 --> 00:49:18,630
anyway, recalculate that later
because then everyone can see

759
00:49:18,780 --> 00:49:22,620
oh, okay, this is what's coming
in. Oh, we're almost at $1,000

760
00:49:22,650 --> 00:49:26,280
So soon my split should change I
mean, it's literally that kind

761
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:31,320
of stuff. But for me just
understanding how opaque no not

762
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,520
even opaque how black box
Spotify and then they have this

763
00:49:36,030 --> 00:49:42,120
master licensing collective
which Spotify also board like no

764
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,840
the distributors, which is
distro kid and there's a whole

765
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,680
bunch of other ones and they
take 15% But then they a piece

766
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,610
goes into this collective and
nobody knows exactly how that

767
00:49:53,610 --> 00:49:58,980
works. The reporting is is very
poor. And even on Spotify, they

768
00:49:58,980 --> 00:50:04,560
have a waiting list. system as
in W E IG HT. Um, so a stream

769
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:11,190
for Ainsley Costello gets less
money per stream than a stream

770
00:50:11,190 --> 00:50:14,160
for Taylor Swift because Oh, you
get it, don't you? It's Taylor

771
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,940
Swift. I mean, that's literally
how it's explained.

772
00:50:18,750 --> 00:50:22,470
Dave Jones: Oh, there's no like,
it's, you have no idea why you

773
00:50:22,470 --> 00:50:25,380
have no idea why it's not
contractual. It's like

774
00:50:25,410 --> 00:50:27,420
Adam Curry: this. Yeah, it's
just whatever goes on inside

775
00:50:27,420 --> 00:50:33,630
their box. So the so, so we, we
went through painstakingly, you

776
00:50:33,630 --> 00:50:35,940
know, okay, here's, because what
they want to do is they want to

777
00:50:35,940 --> 00:50:39,420
help artists, and they want them
to have a good experience. And

778
00:50:39,420 --> 00:50:42,870
they they want the best systems
possible. And they want to, you

779
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:45,540
know, I don't know if they want
to be, I don't think they want

780
00:50:45,540 --> 00:50:48,630
to be they want to be a
services. Yeah, help people help

781
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:52,890
people, for us for a split in
the in the block, I guess. And

782
00:50:52,890 --> 00:50:57,060
so, you know, from a traditional
music perspective, and Ainsley

783
00:50:57,060 --> 00:51:00,390
Costello has another album that
they that they want to put out,

784
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,240
they have to go back and talk to
everybody. Okay, here's how we'd

785
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:06,570
like to do it. Because it's not
going now, the good news is, no

786
00:51:06,570 --> 00:51:09,630
matter what they propose,
everybody's going to be happy,

787
00:51:09,630 --> 00:51:12,060
because they're going to get
more money than they get

788
00:51:12,060 --> 00:51:15,180
currently from any system. So
that's the good news.

789
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,330
Dave Jones: So that is more than
ever more than zero is always

790
00:51:18,330 --> 00:51:19,110
more. Exactly,

791
00:51:19,350 --> 00:51:23,550
Adam Curry: exactly. And then,
you know, moving forward, some

792
00:51:23,550 --> 00:51:27,450
things probably have to change a
little bit, you know, just to

793
00:51:27,450 --> 00:51:32,280
morph into a slicker system, but
I'm very bullish on on their

794
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,370
knowledge now of, of where
they're at, and what they can do

795
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,060
and bringing people in. And I
think we have all the all the

796
00:51:39,060 --> 00:51:42,690
pieces in place, and what I what
I stress to them, and I said,

797
00:51:42,690 --> 00:51:46,650
Look, I don't know how anything
else is going to work. I don't

798
00:51:46,650 --> 00:51:49,680
know about putting music on your
website, I don't know about

799
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,670
mash, I don't know about zaps. I
don't know how any of that

800
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:57,660
works, the only thing I can, I
can tell you that I know works

801
00:51:57,990 --> 00:52:02,190
is people playing music in a
podcast that's value for value

802
00:52:02,190 --> 00:52:06,270
enabled. That's it. And that's
the system I'm very comfortable

803
00:52:06,270 --> 00:52:09,390
with, because that's where I
come from, except in this case,

804
00:52:09,390 --> 00:52:13,170
instead of the radio station,
paying a blanket license to

805
00:52:13,170 --> 00:52:17,040
ASCAP and BMI to be able to play
whatever song they want. And

806
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,630
then ASCAP and BMI, figuring out
how many times a song was

807
00:52:21,630 --> 00:52:26,760
played, or whatever, you know,
and everywhere a song has been

808
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,390
played, including it in bars and
restaurants and all this, which,

809
00:52:30,420 --> 00:52:33,840
you know, they don't really have
all the mechanisms. And then

810
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,080
they they make a calculation
internally and say, Okay, here's

811
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,990
your cut. And guess what, you
know, most of it goes to the

812
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:42,810
established artists once again,
because that while they probably

813
00:52:42,810 --> 00:52:47,070
got played more than you do,
now, but in our case, we bypass

814
00:52:47,100 --> 00:52:49,350
all of that, and it goes
directly from the person who's

815
00:52:49,350 --> 00:52:52,380
listening to the quote unquote,
radio show. And that's

816
00:52:52,380 --> 00:52:55,590
revolutionary. It's, it's very
exciting to them.

817
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:59,880
Dave Jones: Well, this brings up
a good, okay, this brings up a

818
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:04,500
good technical point. Michael,
from wavelike, emailed me and

819
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:09,360
said, and said, Hey, I'm doing,
you know, I'm working through

820
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:14,100
how to calculate splits. And we
know, you know, and he's like,

821
00:53:14,100 --> 00:53:17,820
you know, we, it could get
messy. And we know, we know

822
00:53:17,820 --> 00:53:21,240
this. I mean, we've had to
explain, split in the fee

823
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:24,330
calculation, hell, so we've had
to explain that before. And it

824
00:53:24,330 --> 00:53:28,770
makes everybody want to, you
know, go jump out a window. But

825
00:53:30,060 --> 00:53:34,200
in the US, I'm not going to do
it again. Good. But he did have

826
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:39,090
a good idea. He said, So what he
said, What if podcast index had

827
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:44,160
a, some sort of search, either
an API endpoint or Sonos, which

828
00:53:44,190 --> 00:53:47,400
probably doesn't make sense for
that, but has some sort of

829
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:53,790
service where I can send you a
split block. And it will give, I

830
00:53:53,790 --> 00:53:58,290
can send you a split block and
as a set amount for a boost in

831
00:53:58,290 --> 00:54:00,060
it, why it will do the
calculation.

832
00:54:01,500 --> 00:54:03,810
Adam Curry: to hand it back to
to you, oh,

833
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,290
Dave Jones: with an explanation
of what is of what it did and

834
00:54:07,290 --> 00:54:13,740
why. So that developers can can
sort of test their code against

835
00:54:13,740 --> 00:54:16,650
the the reference
implementation.

836
00:54:17,700 --> 00:54:19,320
Adam Curry: Yes, good idea.

837
00:54:19,710 --> 00:54:20,820
Dave Jones: I think it's a great
idea.

838
00:54:20,850 --> 00:54:23,070
Adam Curry: Yeah. But not
necessarily something that pops

839
00:54:23,070 --> 00:54:28,470
up. So you don't want apps to
rely on it, per se, but just as

840
00:54:28,470 --> 00:54:33,510
a or or do you? I don't know, do
you want to be I

841
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,450
Dave Jones: don't want to you
don't want them to send it in

842
00:54:36,450 --> 00:54:40,560
real time. Every time they do a
split to try to, you know, it's

843
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,530
not a service that they would
need to rely on to make their

844
00:54:43,530 --> 00:54:47,550
split calculations. It would be
a service that they would use to

845
00:54:47,550 --> 00:54:51,930
validate their data. Yeah, it
is. Yes. Splitting correctly.

846
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,230
Adam Curry: Great idea. Yeah.
Split split split validator.

847
00:54:55,620 --> 00:54:57,750
Dave Jones: Yeah, great. Like
Nathan here. Nathan said grade

848
00:54:57,750 --> 00:55:01,710
your homework. Yes. Yeah,
perfect. A scratch paper yes.

849
00:55:02,010 --> 00:55:05,370
Great idea. Great idea. Because
one, it and it will also help

850
00:55:05,610 --> 00:55:10,800
help things be more transparent
too. So I can think that I'm

851
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,250
thinking of it this was thinking
through this morning, I'm like,

852
00:55:14,250 --> 00:55:19,050
okay, it could take a few
different little, few different

853
00:55:19,050 --> 00:55:21,690
sets of inputs, like you could
give it a feed and say, Okay,

854
00:55:21,690 --> 00:55:27,570
here's a feed. And if I sent if
I sent 10,000 SATs to Episode 12

855
00:55:27,570 --> 00:55:33,330
of this podcast, right, what
would I what should happen? And

856
00:55:33,330 --> 00:55:35,760
then we would say, Okay, well,
here, we would read the feed, do

857
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,960
the CALC and split up, spit it
back, then. But if you say,

858
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,540
Okay, well, I've already worked.
But here's some XML. Here's my

859
00:55:42,540 --> 00:55:45,780
XML of just a value block. Is
that okay, well, we'll take

860
00:55:45,780 --> 00:55:48,660
that. Here's some JSON of like,
we could just take all the

861
00:55:48,660 --> 00:55:52,140
different ways that people want
to feed it. Yeah. And just hand

862
00:55:52,140 --> 00:55:52,590
it back.

863
00:55:52,620 --> 00:55:55,260
Adam Curry: That's a great idea,
because it's very inconsistent

864
00:55:55,260 --> 00:55:56,490
amongst all the apps.

865
00:55:57,479 --> 00:55:59,759
Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
And people

866
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,860
Adam Curry: ask me, and people
ask me, I'm like, I don't know.

867
00:56:03,780 --> 00:56:07,170
I don't know. I never understood
it. I'm like, I get the concept.

868
00:56:07,170 --> 00:56:09,210
I can't do it. It's like, I
don't know. That's fine.

869
00:56:09,330 --> 00:56:10,800
Dave Jones: I don't know. Yeah,
go back to

870
00:56:12,030 --> 00:56:15,210
Adam Curry: come in. I don't
know. Yeah, that would be good.

871
00:56:15,330 --> 00:56:17,400
That'd be good. Because it is
documented. It's clearly

872
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,090
documented. But still, it's
hard. It's just

873
00:56:21,510 --> 00:56:23,820
Dave Jones: one of those. But he
said, he read. He said, I read

874
00:56:23,820 --> 00:56:28,350
the documentation. And it's
mostly clear, but um, I can see

875
00:56:28,350 --> 00:56:30,990
some edge cases in my mind
already. And I just want to know

876
00:56:30,990 --> 00:56:32,010
how to handle it.

877
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,170
Adam Curry: What's an edge case
in his mind?

878
00:56:34,860 --> 00:56:36,570
Dave Jones: I don't know. He
didn't mention it. Okay.

879
00:56:37,020 --> 00:56:39,480
Probably, you know, I would
think probably things like that

880
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,410
we've run into before, like
small amounts. You know, when

881
00:56:43,410 --> 00:56:44,550
people are like streaming.

882
00:56:44,610 --> 00:56:48,690
Adam Curry: Oh, right. Right.
Right. Right. I think most

883
00:56:48,690 --> 00:56:52,050
people you should issue like a
poison pill on their app blows

884
00:56:52,050 --> 00:56:56,610
up. five sets of minutes. Give
me a break. What are you?

885
00:56:59,220 --> 00:57:03,390
Dave Jones: That's where we need
the sucker. The sucker to suck

886
00:57:03,390 --> 00:57:07,110
all their sets out like it's a
penalty. They do in the penalty

887
00:57:07,110 --> 00:57:07,320
box.

888
00:57:07,350 --> 00:57:10,200
Adam Curry: I do have a request,
though. For for the apps. If you

889
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:15,000
if you have lit implemented. Oh,
please. Oh, please. Oh, please.

890
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,180
Oh, please. I know. It's I know,
it's not documented yet. And I

891
00:57:18,180 --> 00:57:22,380
know that. It's just kind of
it's Steven B's split kit web

892
00:57:22,380 --> 00:57:27,210
thing. But I feel so bad when
people are boosting these huge

893
00:57:27,210 --> 00:57:30,990
amounts for a song. But the only
two apps that I'm aware of that

894
00:57:30,990 --> 00:57:35,040
do value time split in lit mode
is curio caster and the split

895
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:39,660
kit. So people are sending me
SATs and I and they intend them

896
00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:40,980
to go to the artist.

897
00:57:44,610 --> 00:57:47,340
Dave Jones: You know what I
mean? Yeah, yeah. Well, that's

898
00:57:47,340 --> 00:57:49,410
Adam Curry: because I think
that's because of the WebSocket

899
00:57:49,410 --> 00:57:55,740
stuff. Because the when doing a
live show, I mean, the the

900
00:57:55,740 --> 00:58:00,750
amount of SATs is just it
supersedes everything. is just

901
00:58:00,750 --> 00:58:05,070
the fact that you know, do a lit
show your SATs. Just you stack

902
00:58:05,070 --> 00:58:11,130
and sets man. Yeah. So I don't I
mean, I know it's not official.

903
00:58:11,940 --> 00:58:14,010
And I just sometimes I just
forget, and let's see, oh,

904
00:58:14,010 --> 00:58:16,350
people sending me stuff to
fountain this not going to the

905
00:58:16,350 --> 00:58:16,920
artist.

906
00:58:19,410 --> 00:58:24,870
Dave Jones: I'm thinking yeah, I
think through this, if we need

907
00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:26,640
we need a I need a

908
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,400
Adam Curry: solution for this
podcast. Guru apparently is

909
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,620
working on it. Okay. Cool.

910
00:58:31,710 --> 00:58:36,030
Dave Jones: Well, maybe Steven
and Jason can can figure out a,

911
00:58:36,750 --> 00:58:38,610
maybe they can document a spec.

912
00:58:39,060 --> 00:58:39,960
Adam Curry: Oh, that would be
great.

913
00:58:41,730 --> 00:58:45,240
Dave Jones: Then we can just,
you know, all that and adopt the

914
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:49,590
spec. And then everybody can use
it. I think that's what's going

915
00:58:49,590 --> 00:58:51,390
to have to happen. You're just
going to have to have a way it's

916
00:58:51,420 --> 00:58:54,750
just going to have to be a
separate socket. Yeah. I don't,

917
00:58:54,750 --> 00:58:56,280
I can't think of any other way
to do it.

918
00:58:56,670 --> 00:59:02,490
Adam Curry: And then plug for
for the split kit is finally now

919
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:09,930
now it all comes together. You
can now record your podcast. And

920
00:59:09,930 --> 00:59:12,960
I think Steven b is even he was
I saw him experimenting with a

921
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,780
hook for Mr. List, which is the
playout system. I use it he

922
00:59:15,780 --> 00:59:18,960
hasn't given me anything yet.
But I know he's working on it.

923
00:59:19,290 --> 00:59:23,730
So now if you're a radio disc
jockey and you want to do a

924
00:59:23,970 --> 00:59:28,350
value for value music show, you
have the split kit, and you hook

925
00:59:28,350 --> 00:59:32,700
it up to get Alby. So this is
that's all real, it's relatively

926
00:59:32,700 --> 00:59:39,150
simple. You can build your
playlist of songs, and you can

927
00:59:39,150 --> 00:59:44,970
then start your show and
apparently, in a not too distant

928
00:59:44,970 --> 00:59:47,910
future when I hit the actual
song, and I hit Play It will

929
00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:51,480
then activate that value block
for the for the for the remote

930
00:59:51,510 --> 00:59:54,450
item for the song, you can
search for all the songs in the

931
00:59:54,450 --> 00:59:59,520
split kit. And then when you're
done, you can you can export it

932
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:04,740
as an You got your RSS feed, you
can, you know, a typical, you

933
01:00:04,740 --> 01:00:07,980
can look up an existing RSS
feed, and then it'll, it'll

934
01:00:07,980 --> 01:00:11,850
autofill everything for you. And
then it'll poop out an RSS feed

935
01:00:13,710 --> 01:00:16,170
out of the back end, which has
the value times plus everything

936
01:00:16,170 --> 01:00:18,870
all in it good to go. All you
need basically, is to replace

937
01:00:18,870 --> 01:00:21,900
that on your server, have a
server, put your mp3 file,

938
01:00:21,900 --> 01:00:24,930
that's your that's your RSS
feed. And its value for value

939
01:00:24,930 --> 01:00:28,710
time split enabled everything
all in it. I think I think it

940
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,100
might even add it to the index
automatically. It's amazing.

941
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:37,050
Wow. So for for them. So for DJs
who just want to do that. And I

942
01:00:37,050 --> 01:00:40,410
know that Dobby Das is working
on something similar at RSS

943
01:00:40,410 --> 01:00:44,010
blue.com. But he I haven't seen
anything. But all of a sudden,

944
01:00:44,010 --> 01:00:47,700
it's like yeah, this is the tool
I need. So I go in here, I can

945
01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:50,520
look for all the songs. Or I
hear something I write it down.

946
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,370
Okay, I want this song boom
added to the playlist. Oh, and

947
01:00:53,370 --> 01:00:55,890
then you add it to the playlist
you can also download all those

948
01:00:55,890 --> 01:00:59,580
songs in one go. And that right
there all the mp3 is named

949
01:00:59,580 --> 01:01:03,210
properly, all the tags are in
it. I mean, God Almighty, just

950
01:01:03,210 --> 01:01:06,900
shorten up my prep time by an
hour. You're sure what I always

951
01:01:06,900 --> 01:01:07,380
love.

952
01:01:07,980 --> 01:01:10,410
Dave Jones: I just I just hit
the endpoint for that to see how

953
01:01:10,410 --> 01:01:16,830
many shows had value time split
references in them. And there's

954
01:01:16,830 --> 01:01:20,040
24 now wow, that's pretty big.

955
01:01:20,070 --> 01:01:23,940
Adam Curry: Yeah, I don't even
know. Let's see. Let's

956
01:01:23,940 --> 01:01:25,620
Dave Jones: see. Well, I mean,
it's going to show it's going to

957
01:01:25,620 --> 01:01:27,810
be picking up stuff like us too.
You know, because like

958
01:01:27,900 --> 01:01:31,050
podcasting 2.0 Because we play a
song. But

959
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,570
Adam Curry: that's but that's
what that's beautiful. I want

960
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:38,010
curry in the keeper we played we
played a song Putting the value

961
01:01:38,010 --> 01:01:39,450
time split worked perfectly.

962
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:44,310
Dave Jones: See there's podcasts
idiot by Kevin Bay. It's a mood

963
01:01:44,310 --> 01:01:50,340
we know that one. Mike Newman.
Button meeting music Yep. Let's

964
01:01:50,340 --> 01:01:56,100
see who is the yeah Westenberg
there's Yeah, Korean keeper

965
01:01:56,100 --> 01:01:58,980
there's the I'm just I'm like
spot checking this. I'm doing a

966
01:01:58,980 --> 01:02:01,800
sanity check. The bowl after
bowl. Yeah, this are Spencer.

967
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:07,140
biskra and ball. splits are
stupid. I don't know what show

968
01:02:07,140 --> 01:02:07,440
this.

969
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:08,760
Adam Curry: I want to hear it.

970
01:02:09,870 --> 01:02:14,880
Dave Jones: It's podcast ID
podcast index at 86622590.

971
01:02:15,210 --> 01:02:21,270
Adam Curry: No idea. Have you
heard OYSTEIN show? No. I think

972
01:02:21,270 --> 01:02:26,280
he starts off by talking. I'm
not sure. It's Martin and Mead

973
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:31,440
and music. Maybe. Now he starts
off. I started with peace. He's

974
01:02:32,430 --> 01:02:35,520
well, that's strategic. He's fun
to listen to. It's fun when he

975
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:36,030
talks.

976
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:44,340
Unknown: My wish. And the next
one is a guy's done with watch

977
01:02:44,340 --> 01:02:45,270
the road.

978
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,650
Adam Curry: No, I think he said
Scandinavian. Some Scandinavian

979
01:02:49,650 --> 01:02:50,610
country I think

980
01:02:50,670 --> 01:02:52,050
Dave Jones: okay. He's got a
little Dutch

981
01:02:52,110 --> 01:02:54,570
Adam Curry: little flow little
is great. And he's really he's

982
01:02:54,570 --> 01:02:59,220
really really mellow. He's like,
okay, and the next one is he

983
01:02:59,220 --> 01:03:02,070
goes up tempo song is fantastic.

984
01:03:02,580 --> 01:03:06,240
Dave Jones: Let's see homegrown
hits. Lightning thrashes. Yep,

985
01:03:06,270 --> 01:03:11,550
yep. Yep. Phantom power music
our DJ V for V.

986
01:03:12,089 --> 01:03:16,409
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's dirty
Jersey whore.

987
01:03:16,649 --> 01:03:19,859
Dave Jones: Dirty jersey. Oh,
yes. Right. Something called

988
01:03:19,859 --> 01:03:24,719
help her videos. No, no, no, no.
Developer weekly. I think this

989
01:03:24,719 --> 01:03:28,319
may be just a regular show. It
says a weekly show for

990
01:03:28,319 --> 01:03:30,059
developers and technologists
that are interested in

991
01:03:30,059 --> 01:03:33,509
technology. I think this is just
a rent a regular show that

992
01:03:33,509 --> 01:03:38,969
they're adding music and don't
split Nice. Before this game's

993
01:03:39,329 --> 01:03:42,449
office hours. 2.0 That's Chris
over at Jupiter broadcasting

994
01:03:42,449 --> 01:03:43,979
this issue Blackhat music

995
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,100
Adam Curry: are they putting
music in? Or is it remote item

996
01:03:47,100 --> 01:03:48,090
to a different show?

997
01:03:50,190 --> 01:03:54,780
Dave Jones: See, yeah, I think
it must be remote onto a

998
01:03:54,780 --> 01:03:55,800
different show. Because

999
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,080
Adam Curry: that's cool. I mean,
this is all gonna make so much

1000
01:03:58,080 --> 01:03:58,590
sense.

1001
01:03:59,340 --> 01:04:04,800
Dave Jones: Sets and sounds.
That's Kevin Bay. Yeah, yeah.

1002
01:04:04,830 --> 01:04:07,500
Yeah. Cool. So there's a bunch
of stuff in here. The fairly fun

1003
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:11,730
show. C'est la vie. Silas vocht.
Yeah.

1004
01:04:11,970 --> 01:04:14,610
Adam Curry: James is show got
the rolling on show.

1005
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:21,390
Dave Jones: Rolling on see
podcast. I don't see a rolling

1006
01:04:21,420 --> 01:04:25,650
on what ideas it. Podcast ideas.

1007
01:04:27,390 --> 01:04:28,830
Adam Curry: No, I have a GUID
for you.

1008
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:33,660
Dave Jones: Just Just tell me
character by character. Yes.

1009
01:04:33,690 --> 01:04:36,990
Okay. Ready. It's curly
brackets.

1010
01:04:38,580 --> 01:04:41,790
Adam Curry: In the signal. I
think that's the thing. That's

1011
01:04:41,790 --> 01:04:42,360
the good.

1012
01:04:43,230 --> 01:04:44,670
Dave Jones: All right. I'll
check it out. This is good. If

1013
01:04:44,670 --> 01:04:47,550
somebody notices something in
this endpoint that is missing.

1014
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,040
Tell me because it'll help me
bug hunt.

1015
01:04:51,750 --> 01:04:55,110
Adam Curry: Yeah, this is this
is. I mean, people have to

1016
01:04:55,110 --> 01:04:58,830
realize that this is a category
of podcast that has never

1017
01:04:58,830 --> 01:05:02,670
existed. It just hasn't exist,
you weren't able to do this.

1018
01:05:03,270 --> 01:05:06,540
Now, and this is what I discuss
with Julian Jim as well, we are

1019
01:05:06,540 --> 01:05:09,750
going to have to come up with
some kind of permission slip,

1020
01:05:09,750 --> 01:05:15,180
call it a license, whatever you
want it to be. So that, I mean,

1021
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,830
I know what's going to happen.
Once we get on the radar, which

1022
01:05:19,830 --> 01:05:22,620
is going to be years down the
line, it'll take a while. I just

1023
01:05:22,620 --> 01:05:25,410
know this stuff. It'll take a
while. We'll get on the radar,

1024
01:05:25,410 --> 01:05:28,410
ASCAP, BMI is going to come
knocking somewhere and say, hey,

1025
01:05:28,830 --> 01:05:33,570
hey, you doing a performance of
a song? You owe us money? And

1026
01:05:33,570 --> 01:05:35,580
I'm gonna have to say no,
because I gave all the money to

1027
01:05:35,580 --> 01:05:38,790
the artists. And they're gonna
go, Hey, artists, give me the

1028
01:05:38,790 --> 01:05:41,490
money. Oh, wait, give me the
money. So I can give back to you

1029
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:45,990
or whatever. But I'm going to,
we're going to there's going to

1030
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:50,760
be a legal situation where I am
of the opinion that a podcast is

1031
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:55,680
not a performance as the
performance the royalty

1032
01:05:55,680 --> 01:06:00,660
organizations view it, because,
well, I'll take that back. If

1033
01:06:00,660 --> 01:06:05,220
I'm doing a live stream, and I
have 30 people or 300 or 3000

1034
01:06:05,220 --> 01:06:08,670
listening, yes, that's a
performance of a piece of work

1035
01:06:08,670 --> 01:06:13,980
and something has to be figured
out for that. Because they have

1036
01:06:13,980 --> 01:06:18,570
root they there is ASCAP, BMI
licenses available for streams,

1037
01:06:18,750 --> 01:06:21,930
but not for free for music
shows. Oh, no. And they have all

1038
01:06:21,930 --> 01:06:25,170
kinds of rules like, well, you
have to have a server log what

1039
01:06:25,170 --> 01:06:28,050
songs play, you can't play more
than two songs from one album

1040
01:06:28,050 --> 01:06:31,020
Back to back or in the same
hour. It's all this bullcrap

1041
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:38,070
that is completely antithetical
antithetical to radio. So that's

1042
01:06:38,070 --> 01:06:42,180
going to be an issue but i i
Would I will go to court to say

1043
01:06:42,180 --> 01:06:44,850
because I've gotten gone to
court for Creative Commons and

1044
01:06:44,850 --> 01:06:48,120
one but I didn't win I didn't
win any money I lost money

1045
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:52,290
because I've had lawyers but I
won the case which is precedent

1046
01:06:52,290 --> 01:06:56,400
for Creative Commons. You know,
I'm creating a mechanical copy.

1047
01:06:57,540 --> 01:07:01,080
Now I am creating a derivative
work and I just need the

1048
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,900
permission from the from the
publisher and the master owner

1049
01:07:03,900 --> 01:07:07,200
from that, I know that it's
implied by putting it up on

1050
01:07:07,620 --> 01:07:11,430
value for value. But we're gonna
have to have some kind of

1051
01:07:11,430 --> 01:07:13,560
permission in the feed you know
something like

1052
01:07:14,370 --> 01:07:18,300
Dave Jones: Okay, explain this
to me because this was a giant

1053
01:07:18,300 --> 01:07:23,910
thread of back and forth between
quite a few people on podcast

1054
01:07:23,910 --> 01:07:31,440
index dot social pm this PBIS
podcast index social this past

1055
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:40,200
week and is all about Russell
from I think he's from Australia

1056
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:44,850
runs a hosting platform down
there. He was saying you know,

1057
01:07:44,850 --> 01:07:49,770
this is this is all horrible.
You know, everybody's gonna get

1058
01:07:49,770 --> 01:07:58,530
their pants suit off. Stop now,
you know and this so I mean,

1059
01:07:58,530 --> 01:08:04,500
there is obviously concern here
um, um, look, I'm from Alabama

1060
01:08:06,150 --> 01:08:06,990
I'm a simple guy.

1061
01:08:07,110 --> 01:08:09,570
Adam Curry: Oh, you're not gonna
pull the arm from Alabama but

1062
01:08:09,570 --> 01:08:14,160
now all of a sudden Oregon Mr.
Mr. Database. Okay, simple guy

1063
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,500
from Alabama. I put everything
in one table.

1064
01:08:16,890 --> 01:08:21,300
Dave Jones: It's because it's
because I heard Jean beans.

1065
01:08:21,300 --> 01:08:23,640
Lovely. North Georgia accent

1066
01:08:23,670 --> 01:08:25,710
Adam Curry: I heard I'd love his
accent is great.

1067
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,320
Dave Jones: So okay, well,

1068
01:08:28,529 --> 01:08:30,629
Adam Curry: Russell Russell's
coming from I think a different

1069
01:08:30,629 --> 01:08:33,509
place. I don't know Russell, he
kind of showed up recently I

1070
01:08:33,509 --> 01:08:42,869
think on piste is acronym. And I
believe that he specifically

1071
01:08:42,869 --> 01:08:47,639
does streams for radio stations.
I can't I can't I can't be

1072
01:08:47,639 --> 01:08:52,769
wrong. I don't think he takes
radio shows with music and turns

1073
01:08:52,769 --> 01:08:56,819
them into podcasts I could be
wrong from the stream. Now there

1074
01:08:56,819 --> 01:09:01,769
is a specific carve out for
radio stations. If you have an

1075
01:09:01,769 --> 01:09:09,509
existing radio station, you can
have an internet stream and and

1076
01:09:09,509 --> 01:09:14,429
you can pay ASCAP BMI or
whatever, you know, fill in your

1077
01:09:14,429 --> 01:09:18,089
local performance royalty
organization. And again, this

1078
01:09:18,089 --> 01:09:24,479
may differ per country. So I'm
not sure about Australia. This

1079
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:30,239
may also I think, in Australia,
you may be able to have an

1080
01:09:30,269 --> 01:09:33,389
online radio station I don't
know if that is you have to have

1081
01:09:33,389 --> 01:09:37,049
server logs, you have to track
what you played that I know for

1082
01:09:37,049 --> 01:09:40,499
sure that's how all of them
operate. And you have to send

1083
01:09:40,499 --> 01:09:44,099
that in and they're going to
charge you an X amount. Some of

1084
01:09:44,099 --> 01:09:46,769
them give you a blanket license.
You can get this from Booma

1085
01:09:46,769 --> 01:09:50,759
stemmer in the Netherlands, but
you have to geo locate located

1086
01:09:50,759 --> 01:09:54,509
is all kinds of hurdles. Believe
me, nowhere in the world. Is

1087
01:09:54,509 --> 01:09:58,469
there an actual license for
doing a free form music show in

1088
01:09:58,469 --> 01:10:02,129
a podcast and the reason for
that My opinion is because the

1089
01:10:02,129 --> 01:10:05,729
performing rights organizations
know that they have no business

1090
01:10:05,729 --> 01:10:10,379
licensing that because the song
is actually being incorporated.

1091
01:10:10,469 --> 01:10:13,589
I'm not broadcasting it, I'm
putting it on a server. And I'm

1092
01:10:13,589 --> 01:10:18,329
allowing people to make copies
of it. So that would be the same

1093
01:10:18,329 --> 01:10:22,349
as taking an mp3 and putting on
my server and say, Hey, go

1094
01:10:22,349 --> 01:10:26,159
ahead, copy this, everybody.
Now, it would not be ASCAP, BMI

1095
01:10:26,159 --> 01:10:28,649
who would come and sue me it
would be the publisher, the

1096
01:10:28,649 --> 01:10:32,579
label the owners, the owners of
the work, specifically the

1097
01:10:32,579 --> 01:10:37,949
master and the publisher. So in
this case, I'm not putting its

1098
01:10:37,949 --> 01:10:40,259
new I mean, this is something no
one has done before. Because you

1099
01:10:40,259 --> 01:10:44,129
need a lot of buy in from from
different parties, and it's

1100
01:10:44,129 --> 01:10:46,709
never going to work with I know,
because I've tried for two

1101
01:10:46,709 --> 01:10:49,649
decades, you're not going to get
labels and publishers ever to

1102
01:10:49,649 --> 01:10:51,749
buy, you know, they say, Are you
crazy, I want to I want to

1103
01:10:51,749 --> 01:10:54,599
charge 99 cents for each one of
those, which of course, that

1104
01:10:54,599 --> 01:10:58,949
model is now dead. I also talked
to Jim and Julie about that, how

1105
01:10:58,949 --> 01:11:02,429
much money you make from people
buying a track nothing. It's all

1106
01:11:02,429 --> 01:11:06,329
Street. Nothing, no one's buying
music anymore. It's all all you

1107
01:11:06,329 --> 01:11:09,689
can eat. Remind me to tell you
how that's not working in

1108
01:11:09,689 --> 01:11:15,659
general, either of the story
about that. So this and I think

1109
01:11:16,229 --> 01:11:21,269
the way Russell's outfit works
is he has to pay 20% of any

1110
01:11:21,269 --> 01:11:25,709
income to the Performing Rights
Organization, which is that's

1111
01:11:25,709 --> 01:11:29,759
quite typical. A blanket license
for a radio station could be a

1112
01:11:29,759 --> 01:11:32,639
small percent. I think if it's a
radio station, maybe it's one,

1113
01:11:32,639 --> 01:11:36,269
two 3% It'll differ per country.
And then you can play whatever

1114
01:11:36,269 --> 01:11:40,469
you want. And there's still logs
that are created more or less. I

1115
01:11:40,469 --> 01:11:43,589
mean, I used to do it back in
the day I do my radio show in

1116
01:11:43,589 --> 01:11:47,099
Holland and after the show we'd
have to sit down and write down

1117
01:11:47,159 --> 01:11:51,299
little ASCAP BMI logs. Here's
the song here's the track here's

1118
01:11:51,299 --> 01:11:56,399
the pen and paper a pen and
paper Oh yeah, that's that's how

1119
01:11:56,399 --> 01:11:58,799
we let fans in the studio. Hey,
girls

1120
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:02,550
Dave Jones: grab a pen

1121
01:12:03,510 --> 01:12:07,080
Adam Curry: give me some coffee
too. While you're at it, I'm not

1122
01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:11,220
kidding. Because that was the
worst you're hated doing that

1123
01:12:11,220 --> 01:12:17,610
job that was the worst part and
I gotta do my list. So so the

1124
01:12:17,610 --> 01:12:20,490
argument can be made that I am
not brought forget streaming

1125
01:12:20,490 --> 01:12:24,030
from home because that is the
that is a specific problem. But

1126
01:12:24,030 --> 01:12:27,420
just doing boosted Grand Ball
not live doing it. The

1127
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:30,420
derivative creating derivative
works from all these different

1128
01:12:30,420 --> 01:12:36,690
songs. There is no mechanism for
that other than physical

1129
01:12:36,690 --> 01:12:39,660
Derivative Works copies you
know, you'd have to get

1130
01:12:39,660 --> 01:12:43,380
permission from all those
individual is lazy it's like

1131
01:12:43,380 --> 01:12:49,320
doing if you did a hip hop song
with samples now that you have

1132
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,020
to get permission for everybody
everybody has to be you know,

1133
01:12:52,020 --> 01:12:54,870
there's a percentage we divvy it
all up and it goes into

1134
01:12:55,050 --> 01:12:58,320
publishing the writing the
composition and the and the

1135
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,170
owner of the master that's
that's where that all goes into

1136
01:13:01,170 --> 01:13:06,240
so we need some explicit
permission that will need it

1137
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:08,490
eventually just to cover all the
bases

1138
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:10,950
Dave Jones: so when you say okay
I'm just trying to understand

1139
01:13:10,950 --> 01:13:14,220
trying to follow this this chain
of reasoning here because the

1140
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:26,100
like I see a sir TJ he obviously
is the sole writer of of his own

1141
01:13:26,130 --> 01:13:31,470
let's just say he he's he wrote
a song on the banjo recorded it

1142
01:13:32,070 --> 01:13:36,480
posted it on wave lake or excuse
me on his own his blog as a

1143
01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:41,250
music side project. Like he's
he's the sole creator and owner

1144
01:13:41,250 --> 01:13:44,880
of this work in every shape form
and fashion there is no other

1145
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:53,400
parties involved. Why Why does
there and he he posts it in a

1146
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:57,510
way that puts a value time split
into the feed referencing his

1147
01:13:57,510 --> 01:14:05,250
own website. How do we why do we
need permission for like, I

1148
01:14:05,250 --> 01:14:10,050
don't understand why other
organizations have any have any

1149
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:14,430
like input or voice in that at
all.

1150
01:14:15,480 --> 01:14:18,960
Adam Curry: That is that is law.
That is actual law. The

1151
01:14:18,990 --> 01:14:23,790
performing rights organizations
have statutory legal rights to

1152
01:14:23,790 --> 01:14:28,140
be the only organizations that
can collect money from anybody

1153
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:33,000
who performs it used to be sheet
music as well. But who performs

1154
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:39,600
a song in the in public outside
of your personal home that's why

1155
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:44,550
restaurants bars even at work if
you have you know you're playing

1156
01:14:44,550 --> 01:14:49,260
music in the in the canteen, the
mess, the mess or whatever, all

1157
01:14:49,260 --> 01:14:55,500
of that. The you have to pay by
law, you have to pay a

1158
01:14:55,500 --> 01:14:58,440
performing rights organization
for the right to do that.

1159
01:14:59,339 --> 01:15:01,259
Dave Jones: So you're saying
Okay, so you're saying that if

1160
01:15:01,259 --> 01:15:09,299
I, if I write a song, and that I
can, that I cannot, that there's

1161
01:15:09,599 --> 01:15:14,969
that I cannot go perform that
and directly get money for that

1162
01:15:15,059 --> 01:15:18,119
it has to be brokered by law
through a performing rights

1163
01:15:18,119 --> 01:15:21,569
organization as a go between
between the audience and me,

1164
01:15:22,139 --> 01:15:24,479
even if I wrote the song and
there's no other stakeholders

1165
01:15:25,860 --> 01:15:28,080
Adam Curry: say no, say that
again, just so I get That's

1166
01:15:28,440 --> 01:15:29,220
exactly right.

1167
01:15:29,910 --> 01:15:34,140
Dave Jones: So, so I write a
song. And then I go and perform

1168
01:15:34,140 --> 01:15:41,790
that song on my podcast for and
put a value time split in excuse

1169
01:15:41,790 --> 01:15:44,520
me put a value block in it so
that people are paying me

1170
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:49,560
directly to listen to that song
on my live show. It's all

1171
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:52,710
content that I wrote from
scratch. You're saying that

1172
01:15:52,710 --> 01:15:56,100
that's technically not legal
because I by law, and required

1173
01:15:56,100 --> 01:16:02,580
to go to go engage a third party
Performing Rights Organization

1174
01:16:02,580 --> 01:16:04,200
to broker those transactions for

1175
01:16:04,230 --> 01:16:08,130
Adam Curry: you? You don't know
if you're a member of those

1176
01:16:08,550 --> 01:16:12,480
performing rights organizations?
Yes, technically, a license has

1177
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:15,990
to if it's a live performance,
not a podcast, if it's a live

1178
01:16:15,990 --> 01:16:18,990
stream, or any type of
performance in front of multiple

1179
01:16:18,990 --> 01:16:24,480
people. Not a podcast that's why
there's never been a license for

1180
01:16:24,480 --> 01:16:26,970
it because that's not their
realm because you're not

1181
01:16:27,180 --> 01:16:30,120
performing it for multiple
people all at one time.

1182
01:16:30,509 --> 01:16:34,529
Dave Jones: This is very this is
this is so startling to me.

1183
01:16:34,949 --> 01:16:41,789
Yeah, you're telling me as a you
know, as a because my my son my

1184
01:16:41,789 --> 01:16:46,619
son's band is metal band you
know they when they played they

1185
01:16:46,619 --> 01:16:50,069
played live at multiple shows
and and got a little bit of

1186
01:16:50,069 --> 01:16:53,639
money for it and so that was all
technically illegal

1187
01:16:56,700 --> 01:16:59,430
Adam Curry: What do you mean he
was doing live streams?

1188
01:17:00,210 --> 01:17:03,300
Dave Jones: Is he an absolute?
No, no, he's playing he's

1189
01:17:03,300 --> 01:17:05,610
playing his music live at a show
is

1190
01:17:05,670 --> 01:17:09,210
Adam Curry: well now at a show
the venue has to pay for that.

1191
01:17:10,139 --> 01:17:13,229
Dave Jones: But he that was
startling to me. Is that there?

1192
01:17:13,319 --> 01:17:18,839
Is that anybody? Like there's no
he's never been part of a label

1193
01:17:18,839 --> 01:17:21,449
or any I mean, let's just
there's just some guys in the

1194
01:17:21,449 --> 01:17:25,349
garage that wrote some songs.
They're not members of anything

1195
01:17:25,349 --> 01:17:25,739
at all.

1196
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:31,110
Adam Curry: Okay. Okay, it's
even this if they were in a

1197
01:17:31,110 --> 01:17:35,280
venue in a coffee shop, and they
play a Taylor Swift song. That

1198
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:37,710
coffee shop better have a
blanket license,

1199
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:39,660
Dave Jones: because no no, I'm
talking about they play their

1200
01:17:39,660 --> 01:17:40,920
own songs they wrote

1201
01:17:41,429 --> 01:17:44,999
Adam Curry: and they're not
ASCAP BMI members. No they're

1202
01:17:44,999 --> 01:17:47,429
not okay then there's no promise
and David's then there's no

1203
01:17:47,429 --> 01:17:50,789
problem. They shouldn't be
ASCAP. Most most artists I mean,

1204
01:17:50,819 --> 01:17:54,359
it's not a big deal to become an
ASCAP BMI member because if it

1205
01:17:54,359 --> 01:17:57,809
is played somewhere, if it does
become a hit, you want to you

1206
01:17:57,809 --> 01:17:59,819
want that that revenue coming
in.

1207
01:18:01,260 --> 01:18:04,380
Dave Jones: Okay, so Okay, so I
was misunderstanding you. I

1208
01:18:04,380 --> 01:18:08,010
thought you were saying that by
law, you had to be an asshat BM

1209
01:18:08,010 --> 01:18:08,340
No,

1210
01:18:08,490 --> 01:18:13,140
Adam Curry: by law the only
outfits that are allowed to to

1211
01:18:13,140 --> 01:18:17,730
collect are at their their
sanction, ASCAP, BMI and by law.

1212
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:22,860
Anyone who performs music in a
public setting has to pay them

1213
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:24,510
by law.

1214
01:18:25,860 --> 01:18:28,680
Dave Jones: That doesn't mean
music of a member of ASCAP BMI.

1215
01:18:29,309 --> 01:18:33,119
Adam Curry: Yes, yeah, exactly.
So so this is why you have

1216
01:18:33,149 --> 01:18:37,379
groceries is a big business
grocery stores other you know,

1217
01:18:37,409 --> 01:18:41,039
there's just a big business in
non ASCAP BMI music now, it

1218
01:18:41,039 --> 01:18:44,819
sucks a lot of it. But yeah, you
can you can buy into music

1219
01:18:44,819 --> 01:18:48,599
services and you don't have to
pay that that money, but it's

1220
01:18:48,779 --> 01:18:51,029
still gonna get hassled by those
guys. They're going to be

1221
01:18:51,029 --> 01:18:54,149
checking you all the time. Make
sure that something licensed

1222
01:18:54,149 --> 01:18:57,149
didn't slip in that kind of
stuff. It's a mess. It's

1223
01:18:57,359 --> 01:19:01,829
Elevator Music a good point.
Hard Hat. Elevator Music is

1224
01:19:01,829 --> 01:19:05,609
often is you can just buy into
these services. I know people

1225
01:19:05,609 --> 01:19:08,639
who have become pretty
successful, it means that hey,

1226
01:19:08,639 --> 01:19:11,579
you buy it on a monthly
subscription. It's much cheaper

1227
01:19:11,579 --> 01:19:14,759
than the ASCAP BMI, it can run
into 1000s for a restaurant or a

1228
01:19:14,759 --> 01:19:15,209
bar.

1229
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:22,860
Dave Jones: So you're going to
instead like cyst, so you're

1230
01:19:22,860 --> 01:19:28,290
going to let me handle like the
split verification stuff. I'm

1231
01:19:28,290 --> 01:19:30,480
just gonna let you handle this
kind of stuff. Because I'm still

1232
01:19:30,510 --> 01:19:34,050
this is very confusing to me. I
have no business even like

1233
01:19:34,050 --> 01:19:38,040
having really any input on this.
I would just, I want you to just

1234
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:40,890
tell us what to do. And we'll
and we'll do it just Carry

1235
01:19:40,890 --> 01:19:45,690
Adam Curry: on, carry on as
steady as she goes. The worst

1236
01:19:45,690 --> 01:19:49,170
thing we can do is have long
arguments on a social network

1237
01:19:49,170 --> 01:19:53,040
about this because that just
it's useless. I've been I've

1238
01:19:53,070 --> 01:19:58,320
been down this this path for 20
years. And, and that's what we

1239
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:01,110
did with the podsafe Music
Network. If we created our own

1240
01:20:01,110 --> 01:20:05,790
license outside of ASCAP BMI
never got hassled, by the way,

1241
01:20:05,850 --> 01:20:10,020
never got hassled, specifically
for podcasts. And you can do

1242
01:20:10,020 --> 01:20:13,890
that. You can, I mean, you can
do that you can get permission,

1243
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:16,470
I can go to Paul McCartney and
say, I want to play this track

1244
01:20:16,470 --> 01:20:20,550
by the Beatles. And I don't know
if I think I don't know if it's

1245
01:20:20,550 --> 01:20:25,050
still Michael Jackson publishing
that hones the Beatles music,

1246
01:20:25,230 --> 01:20:28,560
but I can get a license for you
know, under certain parameters

1247
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:32,820
to do that. It'll just be very
expensive. But ASCAP BMI does

1248
01:20:32,820 --> 01:20:35,730
not come into play there.
There's plenty of special music

1249
01:20:35,730 --> 01:20:39,060
projects that have been done,
where you know, for a limited

1250
01:20:39,060 --> 01:20:43,260
time, and then the episode has
to go away after a while. Oh,

1251
01:20:43,260 --> 01:20:45,870
yeah, that's, that's totally
possible. So I'm not too worried

1252
01:20:45,870 --> 01:20:49,770
about it. But it's the
perception and you still want to

1253
01:20:49,770 --> 01:20:53,880
have your artists ASCAP, BMI, A,
because you know, the song is

1254
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:56,370
going to become a hit, and then
it's going to be played on radio

1255
01:20:56,370 --> 01:20:59,370
and you want the artists to have
the joy of not receiving any

1256
01:20:59,370 --> 01:21:00,450
money through that avenue.

1257
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:08,010
Dave Jones: Agreed. Okay, so
what we need so it sounds like

1258
01:21:08,010 --> 01:21:12,720
we need a license that can be
adopted into the podcast license

1259
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:13,650
tag and the feed.

1260
01:21:13,650 --> 01:21:16,530
Adam Curry: Yes. And it's none
of none of what is in there is.

1261
01:21:17,970 --> 01:21:19,950
is applicable. Okay, so

1262
01:21:19,950 --> 01:21:23,160
Dave Jones: we need something
akin to the podsafe. License,

1263
01:21:23,190 --> 01:21:25,590
something of that, of that ilk.
Yeah.

1264
01:21:25,620 --> 01:21:27,960
Adam Curry: And we'll get there.
We don't we don't. I'm not too

1265
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:32,760
worried about it right now. But
But what we don't need as long

1266
01:21:32,790 --> 01:21:36,810
drawn out arguments over the how
we're all going to die, because

1267
01:21:36,810 --> 01:21:39,630
it's just not I would like to
not have those anymore. Yes. No,

1268
01:21:39,630 --> 01:21:42,270
I used I left. I'm like, no.
Okay.

1269
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:45,900
Dave Jones: I've got an ISO for
this, by the way. Oh, you do

1270
01:21:46,050 --> 01:21:48,210
from fro from the left from last
week? Because I don't think you

1271
01:21:48,210 --> 01:21:49,050
played the asset from

1272
01:21:49,290 --> 01:21:51,390
Adam Curry: which, from last
week,

1273
01:21:51,450 --> 01:21:52,440
Dave Jones: there's only one?
Yeah.

1274
01:21:53,100 --> 01:21:55,170
Adam Curry: Hold on. Let me find
it.

1275
01:21:55,770 --> 01:21:57,360
Dave Jones: Oh, I threw a
curveball at you. Because I did

1276
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:00,420
not throw you I did not shoot
you any clips today. Fantastic.

1277
01:22:00,570 --> 01:22:03,690
Adam Curry: That one? Yeah.
Yeah. Nailed it.

1278
01:22:04,830 --> 01:22:08,670
Dave Jones: So yeah. All right.
Well, I think that that makes me

1279
01:22:08,670 --> 01:22:12,840
feel better. That seems like a
simple a simple thing. Because

1280
01:22:13,380 --> 01:22:17,790
Because music side project wave
Lake, they could put these in

1281
01:22:17,970 --> 01:22:21,780
their UIs pretty easily, like,
do you want to apply this

1282
01:22:21,780 --> 01:22:22,950
license to your feed?

1283
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:29,010
Adam Curry: Yes. And so. And
there is one other thing, I'm

1284
01:22:29,010 --> 01:22:37,590
just going to disagree. And
that's, so there's a general

1285
01:22:37,590 --> 01:22:41,820
idea that and there is so if you
record a I looked at all the

1286
01:22:41,820 --> 01:22:46,680
licensing, if you record someone
else's song, the published song,

1287
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:50,910
someone else's work, you can
indeed, you can publish that

1288
01:22:50,910 --> 01:22:56,310
song on an online service, and
you pay an X amount of money.

1289
01:22:56,460 --> 01:23:03,300
It's about 50 bucks, I think,
for up to 500 downloads. Now, I

1290
01:23:03,300 --> 01:23:06,390
don't know what kind of
reporting everyone has, but I'm,

1291
01:23:06,450 --> 01:23:12,360
I'm gonna think that no one has
that information. And if, if if

1292
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:20,520
I play a licensed song that
needs to have 50 bucks per 500

1293
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:24,930
downloads, and then I have, you
know, 10,000 people listening to

1294
01:23:24,930 --> 01:23:28,200
the show that that song is in
somewhere, something someone's

1295
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,410
getting screwed one way or the
other. So I suggest

1296
01:23:31,410 --> 01:23:35,460
Dave Jones: using op three.
Because if you if you go with

1297
01:23:35,460 --> 01:23:38,160
any of the podcasts industrial
complex downloaddownload

1298
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:41,520
calculations, you're gonna be
you're gonna be way over a

1299
01:23:42,990 --> 01:23:46,350
Adam Curry: good point. I guess
the I guess the point is, I'm

1300
01:23:46,350 --> 01:23:50,040
just I just want to stay away
from it. So no, I don't think

1301
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:56,430
it's a good idea. I don't think
any of the Yeah. People if

1302
01:23:57,450 --> 01:24:00,180
people are going to want to see
real stats, if you if it comes

1303
01:24:00,180 --> 01:24:02,850
down to that. So even if you're
just putting it up on your on

1304
01:24:02,850 --> 01:24:07,110
your own V for V, you know, I
think that's something I'm not

1305
01:24:07,140 --> 01:24:12,000
I'm not comfortable with. So now
will it will it possibly happen

1306
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:15,210
that someone record something
that I have never heard of

1307
01:24:15,210 --> 01:24:18,360
before? And it turns out that's
owned by someone else? Yeah,

1308
01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:21,720
that could happen. So I hope
people just stay away from it.

1309
01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:23,520
And I've seen some stuff here
and there. It's like, okay,

1310
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:27,270
that's the cover I know, that
saw, like, No, I'm I'm not going

1311
01:24:27,270 --> 01:24:30,150
to play that. Because I know
that it's going to be more than

1312
01:24:30,150 --> 01:24:34,530
500 downloads. And yeah, you may
have paid for 500. But what what

1313
01:24:34,530 --> 01:24:38,700
if I, you know, play this and
it's 50,000 You know, so

1314
01:24:39,780 --> 01:24:43,410
Dave Jones: where do we go and
find this? Where do we go and

1315
01:24:43,410 --> 01:24:45,090
get such a license written?

1316
01:24:46,530 --> 01:24:48,480
Adam Curry: Or we can write that
ourselves? That's not that hard.

1317
01:24:49,230 --> 01:24:55,350
Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. It's not, hey, you do

1318
01:24:55,350 --> 01:24:57,360
database. I'll fix the license.

1319
01:24:58,500 --> 01:25:00,270
Dave Jones: I'll do a big table.
You do big one. So

1320
01:25:00,270 --> 01:25:03,360
Adam Curry: big table big
license. Perfect. Yeah, don't

1321
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:06,690
and it's not it's not to be
worried about really it isn't

1322
01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:11,010
because these companies
performing rights organizations,

1323
01:25:11,010 --> 01:25:14,370
they've never been able to go
after everybody because it's not

1324
01:25:14,370 --> 01:25:18,300
their wheelhouse. It's not a
performance for a big audience.

1325
01:25:18,540 --> 01:25:22,530
It's a copy that is copied many
times. And I'm either you either

1326
01:25:22,530 --> 01:25:25,800
I'm pirating your music because
you didn't allow me to do it.

1327
01:25:26,190 --> 01:25:30,180
And I'm putting it in a in a in
a like a mixtape. Or I have

1328
01:25:30,180 --> 01:25:32,970
permission to do it. It has
nothing to do with the with

1329
01:25:32,970 --> 01:25:36,360
performing rights organization,
but because it sounds like radio

1330
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:39,450
people now like oh, it's radio,
you're gonna get screwed now

1331
01:25:39,450 --> 01:25:39,870
freaking

1332
01:25:39,870 --> 01:25:40,860
Dave Jones: out. Yeah. For now.

1333
01:25:42,150 --> 01:25:45,180
Adam Curry: The live stuff,
Jeff. Definitely a problem down

1334
01:25:45,180 --> 01:25:45,570
the road.

1335
01:25:46,440 --> 01:25:49,800
Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. All
right. Cool. Well, I mean, if we

1336
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:52,650
Yeah, if we have a license, we
could throw that into. We throw

1337
01:25:52,650 --> 01:25:54,870
that around the feed? We have a
we have a tag for that. Yeah,

1338
01:25:54,900 --> 01:25:57,060
Adam Curry: exactly. That's, I
think that's what's going to be

1339
01:25:57,060 --> 01:25:57,390
cool.

1340
01:26:00,390 --> 01:26:03,990
Dave Jones: Oscar and Bumi Oscar
from fountain and Bumi from

1341
01:26:04,020 --> 01:26:09,630
Alby, they brought up on the
GitHub aid. A desire to have the

1342
01:26:10,350 --> 01:26:11,910
to have a different type.

1343
01:26:13,050 --> 01:26:15,720
Adam Curry: Yes. For the
recipient? Yes, yes. Yes, yes.

1344
01:26:16,350 --> 01:26:17,610
Dave Jones: And I wanted to
bring this up on the show

1345
01:26:17,610 --> 01:26:23,910
because it needs other cause ad
developers need to be aware of

1346
01:26:23,910 --> 01:26:28,290
this. So they currently the only
type in the value recipient, the

1347
01:26:28,290 --> 01:26:34,020
only option for the type
parameter is his lightning. And

1348
01:26:34,020 --> 01:26:42,780
like the lightning type expects
the the destination to be can't

1349
01:26:42,780 --> 01:26:48,630
dress to be Kisa to be a Kison
publickey. Exactly. And so they

1350
01:26:48,630 --> 01:26:54,960
want to have a another type.
That is something something they

1351
01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:58,170
said you alien, your LP, but I
don't, I'd rather it not be that

1352
01:26:58,170 --> 01:27:00,840
because that sounds like it's a
full Ellen URL and

1353
01:27:00,930 --> 01:27:05,340
implementation which this is
not. So let's call it something

1354
01:27:05,340 --> 01:27:07,200
like just bass

1355
01:27:08,220 --> 01:27:10,710
Adam Curry: Simulink. Yeah,

1356
01:27:10,950 --> 01:27:14,070
Dave Jones: yeah. Yeah, let's
call it well, well known or

1357
01:27:14,070 --> 01:27:17,670
something I don't know. So the
way this is basically just a tie

1358
01:27:17,700 --> 01:27:22,260
a different type that says,
instead of the key, the, the

1359
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:27,390
value, the destination address
of the, of the split, being a

1360
01:27:27,510 --> 01:27:34,740
lightning PUBKEY. Lightning, no,
PUBKEY, it's going to be a was a

1361
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:41,430
URL that gets, excuse me, it's
gonna be a lightning address. So

1362
01:27:41,430 --> 01:27:45,570
and then the lightning address
will be Z keys and resolution

1363
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:50,310
method. So you would have
something like Dave, add get

1364
01:27:50,310 --> 01:27:56,970
allday.com which the app would
turn into github.com/dot Well

1365
01:27:56,970 --> 01:28:03,750
known slash key sin slash Dave.
And then in that JSON, this

1366
01:28:03,750 --> 01:28:09,540
resolve that way will be the
destination address custom key

1367
01:28:09,540 --> 01:28:14,490
custom value, right. And so
that's, that's the thing that

1368
01:28:14,490 --> 01:28:18,900
could be cached. You could you
could look it up once, you know,

1369
01:28:18,900 --> 01:28:25,020
every, you know, so many days
or, or seconds or whatever the

1370
01:28:25,020 --> 01:28:28,260
TTL is going to be on that.
There could even be a TTL

1371
01:28:28,260 --> 01:28:31,260
parameter in there. And we can I
can output that into that's

1372
01:28:31,260 --> 01:28:34,500
probably a good idea to have
that. Or I can we can use the

1373
01:28:34,500 --> 01:28:36,630
cache header or whatever, you
know, that needs to be

1374
01:28:36,630 --> 01:28:38,430
communicated. Somehow you cast
your first certain amount of

1375
01:28:38,430 --> 01:28:41,220
time. That way, you're not
having to do a URL address

1376
01:28:41,220 --> 01:28:46,170
resolution is right all the
time. Anyway, I think it's fine.

1377
01:28:46,440 --> 01:28:49,800
It's not Ellen URL. Yeah, that'd
be a nightmare. Yeah, initially,

1378
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:52,650
Adam Curry: I thought it was. I
thought it was a replacement. I

1379
01:28:52,650 --> 01:28:55,470
didn't realize they wanted
optional. So I was like, my

1380
01:28:55,470 --> 01:29:00,450
hackles went down. And I was
like, oh, it's optional. Okay.

1381
01:29:01,020 --> 01:29:02,820
And then they say what they want
it for?

1382
01:29:04,260 --> 01:29:09,360
Dave Jones: Yeah, so that's in
case, in case all of the case

1383
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:16,680
the pub keys change. So if lb
went to a different node,

1384
01:29:17,430 --> 01:29:22,080
infrastructure, and they
required a pub key change, they

1385
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:27,600
wouldn't have to go and ask
everybody that uses an lb. Pub

1386
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:33,660
key to update their feed. Got
it? Got it. So yeah. Which which

1387
01:29:33,660 --> 01:29:38,940
makes sense? I think we could,
if that happens, we could assist

1388
01:29:38,940 --> 01:29:39,390
with that

1389
01:29:39,390 --> 01:29:42,120
Adam Curry: by Yeah, you can do
a search and replace in the

1390
01:29:42,120 --> 01:29:42,840
database.

1391
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:44,940
Dave Jones: Yeah, we start
handing out Yeah, we yeah, we

1392
01:29:44,940 --> 01:29:47,340
get we can we can help
facilitate changes like that

1393
01:29:47,340 --> 01:29:49,530
there. But it's a good idea.

1394
01:29:50,550 --> 01:29:52,800
Adam Curry: But using it does
add some overhead to apps that

1395
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:54,660
want to follow that a little

1396
01:29:54,660 --> 01:29:57,900
Dave Jones: bit. Yes. A little
bit. Okay. Yeah, but if if any

1397
01:29:57,900 --> 01:30:01,500
apps see a problem with that
Please go to that discussion on

1398
01:30:01,500 --> 01:30:06,810
GitHub and give some feedback.
Otherwise, we'll probably move

1399
01:30:06,810 --> 01:30:11,820
pretty fast with this and and
throw this into the spec. And I

1400
01:30:11,820 --> 01:30:15,750
will be vocal about it on in the
boardroom here to let everybody

1401
01:30:15,750 --> 01:30:18,840
know that that is happening and
you need to make allowance for

1402
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:21,990
that. We'll try to keep
everybody apprised of it.

1403
01:30:22,020 --> 01:30:27,270
Because this that's a spec that
rarely changes fairly, ever.

1404
01:30:27,810 --> 01:30:30,180
Adam Curry: But I want to thank
whoever thought it was funny to

1405
01:30:32,550 --> 01:30:37,170
sign me up for ads from
betterhelp.com. Thanks.

1406
01:30:39,870 --> 01:30:41,910
Dave Jones: This, this is a gift
to you. Yes. Hi,

1407
01:30:41,910 --> 01:30:43,710
Adam Curry: Adam. I hope you're
doing well today. Just wanted to

1408
01:30:43,710 --> 01:30:46,320
follow up on your sponsorship
inquiry. Thank you for reaching

1409
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:49,740
out to better help better help
as a big advertiser. My name is

1410
01:30:49,740 --> 01:30:54,090
Sam, I work for a company called
Influence logic to manage better

1411
01:30:54,090 --> 01:30:57,570
helps affiliate podcast
partnerships. Cool. If you're

1412
01:30:57,570 --> 01:31:00,120
interested in discussing things
further, I'd love to hear a bit

1413
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:02,880
more about your show and discuss
how we can work together. Please

1414
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:06,210
provide a link to your show on
Apple podcasts and any other

1415
01:31:06,210 --> 01:31:10,380
social media platforms you have.
I want to ensure I'm grabbing

1416
01:31:10,380 --> 01:31:13,080
the right show my team and
better help like to quickly

1417
01:31:13,080 --> 01:31:17,100
review accounts to ensure
everything is brand safe before

1418
01:31:17,100 --> 01:31:18,240
we can proceed.

1419
01:31:18,870 --> 01:31:21,240
Dave Jones: Just send them a
link to no agenda delegate.

1420
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:22,380
We'll never hear from them
again.

1421
01:31:23,430 --> 01:31:24,780
Adam Curry: I want to hear the
rejection.

1422
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:30,060
Dave Jones: Yes, I love the
emails to podcast index. They

1423
01:31:30,060 --> 01:31:33,150
start off with Hello team. Yeah,
there's no tenant.

1424
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,710
Adam Curry: Although I'm a
little insulted. YouTube, I

1425
01:31:37,710 --> 01:31:41,700
guess after all those those
early invites, they never never

1426
01:31:41,700 --> 01:31:46,830
sent me a notice to come in have
and give them my RSS feed.

1427
01:31:47,610 --> 01:31:50,130
Dave Jones: Now you're never
gonna follow up. No, no. Not

1428
01:31:50,430 --> 01:31:51,060
surprising.

1429
01:31:51,180 --> 01:31:52,980
Adam Curry: I thought that they
would spam all the email

1430
01:31:52,980 --> 01:31:55,380
addresses they had. I thought
they would just you know, go

1431
01:31:55,380 --> 01:31:57,300
reach out to all kinds of
podcasters I guess.

1432
01:31:57,660 --> 01:32:02,160
Dave Jones: They don't even know
they have RSS. They don't they

1433
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:05,100
don't know what they're doing
this this this whole thing is a

1434
01:32:05,100 --> 01:32:09,600
joke. Well, I had a whole I had
like, add like, four paragraphs

1435
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:12,840
of notes to talk about YouTube
and I'm just I don't even want

1436
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:13,050
to do

1437
01:32:13,080 --> 01:32:16,230
Adam Curry: now the only thing
I'll say is that supposedly

1438
01:32:16,260 --> 01:32:19,920
YouTube has been talking to
hosting companies about

1439
01:32:19,950 --> 01:32:23,640
integrating you know, kind of
the way Hey, remember how that

1440
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:25,950
went worked with Spotify?
Remember how that worked with

1441
01:32:26,610 --> 01:32:29,490
Facebook? That was Oh yeah. Oh,
that's all those do that yeah,

1442
01:32:29,490 --> 01:32:32,730
that was a lot you're wasting
cycles and I think YouTube wants

1443
01:32:32,730 --> 01:32:36,180
to take your business that's all
I'll say. I think they want to

1444
01:32:36,180 --> 01:32:37,080
take your business

1445
01:32:38,190 --> 01:32:38,940
Dave Jones: not gonna argue

1446
01:32:39,150 --> 01:32:41,280
Adam Curry: Yeah, I mean,
Spotify they want to take your

1447
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:44,220
business they they literally
took it and gave everyone free

1448
01:32:44,220 --> 01:32:45,570
stuff at a cast

1449
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:49,710
Dave Jones: yet remember when
you remember a couple of weeks

1450
01:32:49,710 --> 01:32:55,470
ago when we talked about the the
inevitable discrepancy that's

1451
01:32:55,470 --> 01:32:59,460
going to curl calls some ripples
within the advertising the

1452
01:32:59,460 --> 01:33:05,010
advertising podcasts industrial
complex about Spotify as

1453
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:09,690
streaming metrics versus the RSS
download metrics Yeah, this is

1454
01:33:09,690 --> 01:33:13,800
about to get fun to watch
because you're gonna have you're

1455
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:18,360
gonna have RSS metrics showing a
show with you know 25,000

1456
01:33:18,360 --> 01:33:24,090
downloads and and Spotify
showing it with me no 700 Yeah,

1457
01:33:24,090 --> 01:33:29,040
this is gonna get this is gonna
get fun ah,

1458
01:33:29,070 --> 01:33:30,900
Adam Curry: let's thank a few
people. People have been

1459
01:33:30,900 --> 01:33:34,470
boosting throughout the entire
show which we always love. And

1460
01:33:34,860 --> 01:33:38,820
kind of kick it off with Steven
B 5000 SATs he says let Eric and

1461
01:33:38,820 --> 01:33:44,460
and know who's Eric and Eric in
ERIC let Eric and no I'll be

1462
01:33:44,460 --> 01:33:47,280
recording a tutorial video to
demonstrate building a music

1463
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:50,340
show soon. Maybe this weekend?
All right. Oh, there's arrogant.

1464
01:33:50,370 --> 01:33:55,680
Oh, I see. Eric. Eric and
boosted before that from from

1465
01:33:55,710 --> 01:34:00,210
pod verse 5000 SATs You guys
rock. You guys rock man.

1466
01:34:00,390 --> 01:34:03,210
Hopefully there can be a guide
on how to do a music podcast

1467
01:34:03,210 --> 01:34:05,850
soon. Thanks for the
inspiration. Okay, there we go.

1468
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:11,310
That makes total sense. Hey
citizen 6969 says go podcasting.

1469
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:17,250
or head to 2112 Rush boost
splits are stupid and helper

1470
01:34:17,250 --> 01:34:21,450
videos are peer tube channels. I
set up for testing the split kit

1471
01:34:21,450 --> 01:34:24,210
integration for live and
recorded videos configurable

1472
01:34:24,210 --> 01:34:29,460
Hmm. splits are stupid. All
right. Okay. All right. All

1473
01:34:29,460 --> 01:34:33,810
right. Message received. Chad F
1000 says that if I listened to

1474
01:34:33,810 --> 01:34:36,630
booster Graham ball live, I have
the stream playing in pod verse

1475
01:34:36,630 --> 01:34:38,670
and have the split kit open in
the browser to boost the

1476
01:34:38,670 --> 01:34:43,020
artists. Yeah, that does work.
That does work. But it's not as

1477
01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:48,600
it kind of is not as handy as
we'd like it to be. Podcast

1478
01:34:48,600 --> 01:34:53,730
guru. Jason 2222 row of ducks.
Were about to put live splits in

1479
01:34:53,730 --> 01:34:58,020
beta implementation has done an
Android and iOS. Good. Talk

1480
01:34:58,020 --> 01:35:01,350
about that. Anonymous When you
want to all rush boost, here's

1481
01:35:01,350 --> 01:35:04,380
another thing to add to the
helipad To Do List auto payments

1482
01:35:04,590 --> 01:35:08,160
from peer tube have been going
out successfully at midnight GMT

1483
01:35:08,160 --> 01:35:15,060
for a month now. Hmm Okay, so
yeah, I mean so the auto

1484
01:35:15,060 --> 01:35:19,530
payments is there. Is there a
tag? Is there a TLV bit that we

1485
01:35:19,530 --> 01:35:21,750
flipped for auto payment? I
think so isn't it? I think

1486
01:35:21,750 --> 01:35:23,520
there's something in the in the
spec for that.

1487
01:35:23,910 --> 01:35:25,830
Dave Jones: Yeah, there is.
There's a there's three

1488
01:35:25,830 --> 01:35:30,660
different actions there's a
boost stream and auto. Get Auto

1489
01:35:30,660 --> 01:35:34,320
is for automated, you know, non
payments that were not initiated

1490
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:34,800
by human.

1491
01:35:35,159 --> 01:35:40,769
Adam Curry: Okay, cool. Eric
peepee so on your list 3333 I am

1492
01:35:40,769 --> 01:35:43,679
Mr. Robot. I always get the best
clips from Dave talking about

1493
01:35:43,679 --> 01:35:47,039
the Bitcoin bros of noster
trying to reinvent RSS love

1494
01:35:47,039 --> 01:35:50,339
these board meetings go
podcasting. And there Sam Ceci

1495
01:35:50,339 --> 01:35:54,149
with his 10,000 sat boost from
pod fans take three sending a

1496
01:35:54,149 --> 01:35:57,509
boost from pod fans. So probably
two more to come. 1000 another

1497
01:35:57,509 --> 01:36:01,619
from Gadot Chad F Yes. Just
hearing the word nasty irritates

1498
01:36:01,619 --> 01:36:10,319
me, says. Saints and SATs with a
row of ducks 2222 anti war boost

1499
01:36:10,379 --> 01:36:14,639
away that was no agenda I'm
sorry. You mixing the streams

1500
01:36:15,239 --> 01:36:17,819
across the stream didn't mean to
do that didn't mean to do that.

1501
01:36:18,359 --> 01:36:22,289
Here's Mustapha with 100 SAT
test booths got you. We got Mr.

1502
01:36:22,289 --> 01:36:26,339
Robot again. 2222 I hear more
Bitcoin podcasts in Austin

1503
01:36:26,339 --> 01:36:29,789
talking about noster rather than
figuring out all the advancement

1504
01:36:29,789 --> 01:36:34,829
in podcasting 2.0 It's quite sad
and very Bitcoin Bitcoin bros.

1505
01:36:35,009 --> 01:36:38,939
Rinse and repeat. Yeah. Oh, it's
what it is. They're all excited.

1506
01:36:38,939 --> 01:36:42,989
They're excited. Yeah. Other
stuff. Oh, nice big row of

1507
01:36:42,989 --> 01:36:49,949
ducks. This is 22,222 from Mike
Dell, YouTube, podcast, dumpster

1508
01:36:49,949 --> 01:36:59,909
fire boost go open podcasting.
That's funny. 4111 from a Chris,

1509
01:36:59,909 --> 01:37:03,419
you know, I'd still love to make
a playlist of V four v songs

1510
01:37:03,419 --> 01:37:05,849
that I can send to friends and
family for them to listen to in

1511
01:37:05,849 --> 01:37:08,729
a modern podcast app is the best
way to do this currently the

1512
01:37:08,729 --> 01:37:18,929
split kit and making my own feed
for the playlist? I think so. I

1513
01:37:18,929 --> 01:37:22,919
think so. Or you could I mean,
yeah, you

1514
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:23,730
Dave Jones: say it again.

1515
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:27,240
Adam Curry: Well, he says, I'd
still love to make a playlist of

1516
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:30,660
V four, V four v songs I can
send to friends and family, for

1517
01:37:30,660 --> 01:37:33,420
them to listen to with a modern
podcast app is the best way to

1518
01:37:33,420 --> 01:37:36,990
do this currently, the split kit
and making my own feed for the

1519
01:37:36,990 --> 01:37:43,500
playlist. That's what there's a
couple of ways you can do it,

1520
01:37:43,500 --> 01:37:47,610
really. But yeah, I think it
would want I mean, you could

1521
01:37:47,610 --> 01:37:54,540
have Wow, you could have a feed,
which is all your playlists, and

1522
01:37:54,540 --> 01:37:56,790
then an item could be a whole
bunch of remote items. Am I

1523
01:37:56,790 --> 01:38:01,260
correct? Yes, you could have
multiple playlists that way.

1524
01:38:01,769 --> 01:38:04,559
Dave Jones: Yeah. So are OPML
with its Messier, it's gonna

1525
01:38:04,559 --> 01:38:07,079
import all the feeds as if
they're separate RSS feed.

1526
01:38:07,469 --> 01:38:11,189
Adam Curry: I'm sure the Steven
B emporium of apps will have a

1527
01:38:11,189 --> 01:38:13,139
playlist creator for you very
soon.

1528
01:38:13,620 --> 01:38:16,110
Dave Jones: It's called ln
playlist commerce.

1529
01:38:16,589 --> 01:38:18,749
Adam Curry: It's going to be
that Yes. Yeah, it's gonna be

1530
01:38:18,749 --> 01:38:21,569
there. And it'll have the
appropriate medium medium equals

1531
01:38:21,569 --> 01:38:23,489
music. L I think is not

1532
01:38:23,549 --> 01:38:26,999
Dave Jones: ln, ln mix. LLN
mix.com is was gonna be Yeah,

1533
01:38:27,299 --> 01:38:29,969
yeah, the playlists. Yeah,
that's right. The music l

1534
01:38:30,029 --> 01:38:31,109
Musico. Yes.

1535
01:38:33,660 --> 01:38:36,630
Adam Curry: E podcasts are
16,000 Love me some podcasting.

1536
01:38:36,630 --> 01:38:39,900
2.0 Goodness on a Friday
afternoon. 16,000 SATs to mark

1537
01:38:39,900 --> 01:38:47,190
the 16th annual National podcast
post month aka na pod Pomo. Not

1538
01:38:47,220 --> 01:38:51,600
on promo not pa hobo. The
original November 30 Day podcast

1539
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:57,420
challenge now pod pomo.org I had
no idea. Nothing. Popo no Popo

1540
01:38:57,630 --> 01:39:01,920
no pod popo. Okay. Oh, there's
Dave Jackson with 100 SATs from

1541
01:39:01,920 --> 01:39:07,230
pod fans. Good. That works. And
there's Sam Sethi. Oh, okay. Sam

1542
01:39:07,230 --> 01:39:12,510
Sethi am hanging out. Pre
boosting from Italy. Drinking

1543
01:39:12,510 --> 01:39:22,170
Barolo and truffle hunting
101010 101,010 20 is Blaze on I

1544
01:39:22,170 --> 01:39:24,000
am Paula and

1545
01:39:24,780 --> 01:39:27,450
Dave Jones: that's a man who's
confident in his boost. But that

1546
01:39:27,450 --> 01:39:28,530
is Eric PP

1547
01:39:28,530 --> 01:39:32,070
Adam Curry: has like a bowler
donation somehow. This isn't

1548
01:39:32,070 --> 01:39:34,740
good like a whole bunch of
bowling balls yes very confident

1549
01:39:34,740 --> 01:39:37,080
man. And that comes from pod
fence.

1550
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:39,750
Dave Jones: Yeah, well you don't
you don't throw you don't throw

1551
01:39:39,750 --> 01:39:45,240
out a six figure boost in boast
about your wine unless you have

1552
01:39:45,300 --> 01:39:48,960
unless you're bold and have have
confidence in your boostability

1553
01:39:49,019 --> 01:39:51,779
Adam Curry: Now here's what's
cool is pod fans is so great. He

1554
01:39:51,779 --> 01:39:55,169
sent the exact same booster gram
twice with the same amount of

1555
01:39:57,959 --> 01:40:02,519
blades only him follow We love
that double booster. Double pop

1556
01:40:02,519 --> 01:40:04,649
fan. Double boosting we love
that held

1557
01:40:04,650 --> 01:40:06,720
Dave Jones: the button down a
little too long.

1558
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:09,510
Adam Curry: I love it, man.
Thank you. Dred Scott with a

1559
01:40:09,510 --> 01:40:14,820
15,100 Sad boost. Thank you
drugged and let me see I think

1560
01:40:14,820 --> 01:40:18,000
that is yeah, that's what we
have for the pre boosts. What do

1561
01:40:18,000 --> 01:40:22,890
you got on your list? Oh, we got
one more. Oh, this is

1562
01:40:22,890 --> 01:40:27,420
interesting. This came in with
literally with nothing Oh,

1563
01:40:27,420 --> 01:40:31,800
that's what is this? This is
Bucha Oh boo CLI, okay, that

1564
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:36,330
doesn't even say doesn't even
say what that's for. Wow, that's

1565
01:40:36,330 --> 01:40:40,890
weird. Feed ID Okay, well that I
don't think that was for us.

1566
01:40:41,219 --> 01:40:44,099
Dave Jones: Mike Dell sent us a
picture that I sent to you

1567
01:40:44,099 --> 01:40:44,309
through

1568
01:40:44,610 --> 01:40:47,790
Adam Curry: the dumpster fire. I
saw as funny

1569
01:40:48,210 --> 01:40:51,600
Dave Jones: as Dave Jackson not
only sent us a boost, but he

1570
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:53,520
also sent us a $50 PayPal.

1571
01:40:53,580 --> 01:40:55,110
Adam Curry: Oh, thanks, brother.

1572
01:40:55,110 --> 01:40:57,630
Dave Jones: So can I hear from
the school of podcasting? Very

1573
01:40:57,630 --> 01:41:03,300
nice. Thank you. much appreciate
it. And we got let's see Kevin

1574
01:41:03,300 --> 01:41:08,640
Bay, the aforementioned Kevin
bay from the DJ music shows he

1575
01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:13,080
sent $6 And he says I missed the
monthly donation from the

1576
01:41:13,080 --> 01:41:17,070
endowment fund because I was in
Italy. Oh, are you truffle

1577
01:41:17,070 --> 01:41:17,550
Hunter? Yes.

1578
01:41:18,540 --> 01:41:19,410
Adam Curry: Sam Sethi

1579
01:41:21,060 --> 01:41:24,720
Dave Jones: here's September's
and October's lunga Vita. Oh,

1580
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:25,560
podcasting.

1581
01:41:25,980 --> 01:41:27,540
Adam Curry: Okay, very nice.

1582
01:41:27,990 --> 01:41:28,920
Dave Jones: You like my Italian?

1583
01:41:29,100 --> 01:41:31,860
Adam Curry: Very good. Love your
eyes. Your eye Italian is rockin

1584
01:41:31,860 --> 01:41:32,370
and rollin

1585
01:41:32,730 --> 01:41:36,990
Dave Jones: Franco. Just gotta
like he's fell over in his out

1586
01:41:36,990 --> 01:41:37,440
of his chair.

1587
01:41:37,620 --> 01:41:38,340
Adam Curry: Sure.

1588
01:41:39,390 --> 01:41:42,990
Dave Jones: Let's see yarn,
Rosenstein. Send us $1. And

1589
01:41:42,990 --> 01:41:45,570
that's subscription. The new
subscription. Thank you. Thank

1590
01:41:45,570 --> 01:41:49,410
you yarn. Appreciate it. And for
all the people like the Israel

1591
01:41:49,440 --> 01:41:51,630
Israel stuff, you know, we've
been talking to Brian, he's,

1592
01:41:51,660 --> 01:41:52,920
he's fine. He's Yeah. Okay.

1593
01:41:52,950 --> 01:41:55,080
Adam Curry: Yeah, he's got a
little group. We've been back

1594
01:41:55,080 --> 01:41:58,770
and forth. He's definitely not a
happy camper. But he's not

1595
01:41:58,770 --> 01:42:03,090
Dave Jones: happy but safe.
Yeah. We got, although he did.

1596
01:42:03,570 --> 01:42:05,280
Adam Curry: He did post
something about hive the other

1597
01:42:05,280 --> 01:42:07,200
day. I'm like, okay, he's doing
better now.

1598
01:42:07,470 --> 01:42:13,920
Dave Jones: He's so my daughter.
My youngest daughter. We used to

1599
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:16,620
judge how good she felt by how
many cinnamon rolls she could

1600
01:42:16,620 --> 01:42:20,250
eat. Like, if she was feeling
real puny, you know, she may not

1601
01:42:20,250 --> 01:42:24,060
eat any or she may eat one. When
she's when she's feeling like

1602
01:42:24,060 --> 01:42:26,940
fantastic on top of the world. I
mean, she could put she this is

1603
01:42:26,940 --> 01:42:29,670
like she's four years old.
That's fine. She could put away

1604
01:42:29,670 --> 01:42:31,140
for cinnamon roll. You're

1605
01:42:31,140 --> 01:42:32,820
Adam Curry: feeding you're
feeding your four year old

1606
01:42:32,820 --> 01:42:36,840
cinnamon rolls. Well, I mean,
it's Alabama. Yeah, I get it's

1607
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:37,890
Alabama. Okay,

1608
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:42,930
Dave Jones: yeah, we gotta get
diabetes started. So like this,

1609
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:45,480
this is how you judge whether
bronze okay. Is how many

1610
01:42:46,680 --> 01:42:52,140
mentions? Yes, yes. Oh, he's
good. He's doing okay. Sir Libra

1611
01:42:52,170 --> 01:42:57,780
from lightning thrashes in us
3333 podcast index. I heard it

1612
01:42:57,780 --> 01:43:01,800
on a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. That
was thrilled to get this artist

1613
01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:05,490
in touch with blueberry. It's
great. I underwritten dot media.

1614
01:43:05,550 --> 01:43:05,850
Okay,

1615
01:43:05,910 --> 01:43:06,960
Adam Curry: I have not heard
back.

1616
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:12,180
Dave Jones: See, we got
Lightning tng store. Oh, that

1617
01:43:12,180 --> 01:43:16,860
Sam means. Hello, Sam. Send us
1234 through fountain nice. Give

1618
01:43:16,860 --> 01:43:21,540
some emoji some lightning love.
Karen for the mere mortals

1619
01:43:21,540 --> 01:43:25,650
podcast. 2222 through fountain
he says V for V RSS and BTC are

1620
01:43:25,650 --> 01:43:26,850
all I need love.

1621
01:43:28,920 --> 01:43:31,260
Adam Curry: He's a poet. He's a
poet, ladies and gentlemen.

1622
01:43:31,470 --> 01:43:35,010
Dave Jones: That's gonna be some
lyrics to it's BTC and V for the

1623
01:43:35,010 --> 01:43:43,830
euro Allah need. Yeah. Okay.
ASCAP. BMI would never come to

1624
01:43:43,830 --> 01:43:45,510
demand money for songs that
arrive

1625
01:43:46,440 --> 01:43:48,960
Adam Curry: loose are probably
not

1626
01:43:49,530 --> 01:43:53,400
Dave Jones: anonymous. 5000 says
through podcast index. Is it

1627
01:43:53,400 --> 01:43:57,810
really fair to say big tech
returns no value to creators. I

1628
01:43:57,810 --> 01:44:01,230
see lots of self described non
techie YouTubers in the how to

1629
01:44:01,230 --> 01:44:04,680
DIY category upgrading tools,
shops, even quitting their day

1630
01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:08,220
jobs. Hate to defend big tech.
But there is value in making

1631
01:44:08,220 --> 01:44:10,170
something so easy that a caveman
can do it.

1632
01:44:10,920 --> 01:44:13,320
Adam Curry: Oh, sure. Have you
seen the same people when the

1633
01:44:13,320 --> 01:44:16,530
algo screws them or when they
get demonetized or D platformed?

1634
01:44:16,530 --> 01:44:18,690
How sad they are after they've
quit their day job.

1635
01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:23,160
Dave Jones: I don't think
anybody ever said I don't think

1636
01:44:23,160 --> 01:44:27,030
we said that big tech returns no
value to creators. I think what

1637
01:44:27,030 --> 01:44:32,790
we're saying I echo James
James's thing that he said big

1638
01:44:32,790 --> 01:44:36,570
tech lets you keep a little bit
of the value of from the content

1639
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:38,010
that you made. That's right.

1640
01:44:38,820 --> 01:44:40,920
Adam Curry: That's give us all
your creativity. And here's

1641
01:44:40,920 --> 01:44:42,510
nothing maybe a pittance.

1642
01:44:42,900 --> 01:44:46,020
Dave Jones: Yeah, you give us
all the value there. You let us

1643
01:44:46,020 --> 01:44:49,860
monetize your show. And if you
monetize it enough, we'll let

1644
01:44:49,860 --> 01:44:50,610
you keep a little bit.

1645
01:44:50,610 --> 01:44:52,410
Adam Curry: I mean, here's the
difference. This is big tech.

1646
01:44:53,250 --> 01:44:57,360
And this is us. Which one do you
want to be a part of? You tell

1647
01:44:57,360 --> 01:44:57,660
me

1648
01:44:58,260 --> 01:45:01,110
Dave Jones: the mozzie 3333
Through fountain nice says glad

1649
01:45:01,110 --> 01:45:03,360
to hear the update from the
discussion with the guys at wave

1650
01:45:03,360 --> 01:45:09,270
Lake. Yep, good discussion. Oh,
Adam curry 1500 says boosting

1651
01:45:09,270 --> 01:45:10,620
into the chapters unless you

1652
01:45:11,519 --> 01:45:14,099
Adam Curry: Yeah, that was my
test. Yes, I did. Yeah, it's

1653
01:45:14,099 --> 01:45:16,529
self boosting. It feels good.

1654
01:45:17,130 --> 01:45:20,460
Dave Jones: Kevin Bay 20,000
SATs through partners got my

1655
01:45:20,460 --> 01:45:23,760
first two booster grams on my
music show sets and sounds. So

1656
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:26,070
I'm paying it forward. It
wouldn't be possible without

1657
01:45:26,070 --> 01:45:28,800
that magic wallet switching
technology. Yoo hoo.

1658
01:45:30,030 --> 01:45:31,650
Adam Curry: Nice. Oh, cool.
Kevin.

1659
01:45:32,250 --> 01:45:37,830
Dave Jones: Blown Yank. Okay.
This is a new loan. Yeah. 22 To

1660
01:45:37,830 --> 01:45:41,610
22 Big Rolodex, he says, Thanks
for everything you guys do. I

1661
01:45:41,610 --> 01:45:44,820
listen to all my podcasts while
I'm driving. So podcast addict

1662
01:45:44,820 --> 01:45:48,180
is my go to is their Android
Auto app is great, but no

1663
01:45:48,180 --> 01:45:52,140
boosting. I'm sure some would
consider it unsafe. But if these

1664
01:45:52,140 --> 01:45:55,980
app developers could build out
more Android Auto apps,

1665
01:45:56,160 --> 01:45:59,190
particularly with boosting I'd
be a happy guy and we'd be

1666
01:45:59,190 --> 01:46:02,250
boosting a lot more in the
morning and KTL D Yes.

1667
01:46:02,940 --> 01:46:05,820
Adam Curry: Virginia. Yes. I
recognize the name. Pod verse

1668
01:46:05,820 --> 01:46:09,720
just added Android Auto give
that a whirl?

1669
01:46:10,470 --> 01:46:20,730
Dave Jones: Yeah, yep. 33 over
10 1234567 sets true. Shot kala

1670
01:46:20,730 --> 01:46:27,930
20 is Blaze on am Paula has a
good story. Through breeze so

1671
01:46:27,930 --> 01:46:32,310
I'm sure the the bat signal the
red lights started spinning in

1672
01:46:32,310 --> 01:46:37,590
Roy's basement. When this boost
went out, Adam and Dave 2.0

1673
01:46:37,590 --> 01:46:43,230
rocks advertising don't work up
talking works. This is 3131 ish

1674
01:46:43,230 --> 01:46:46,410
percent of the 4 million says
that JCD refused.

1675
01:46:46,440 --> 01:46:49,740
Adam Curry: That's right. He
emailed me he said Hey man, can

1676
01:46:49,740 --> 01:46:54,780
I can I send you 4 million SATs?
I'm like brother I would love it

1677
01:46:54,780 --> 01:47:00,750
but you know this has failed so
miserably. You know, the was the

1678
01:47:00,750 --> 01:47:04,830
company I was working with. They
index the the ibex never got it

1679
01:47:04,830 --> 01:47:08,970
together with the keys and then
they just they couldn't get it

1680
01:47:08,970 --> 01:47:12,900
together. And then they switched
and we had to get an account

1681
01:47:12,900 --> 01:47:18,300
with Swan Bitcoin. And in Texas
I can't have a Bitcoin to fiat

1682
01:47:18,300 --> 01:47:22,230
account. That is that is with
Swan because one doesn't have a

1683
01:47:22,230 --> 01:47:25,860
license currently in Texas for
some reason. Oh, no. Oh, yeah.

1684
01:47:25,860 --> 01:47:29,850
So all kinds of stuff like that.
And then and then me what we did

1685
01:47:29,850 --> 01:47:36,120
get from our no agenda was so it
was like, I think we got maybe

1686
01:47:36,120 --> 01:47:41,850
in a course of a month, maybe
eight donations. And then and

1687
01:47:42,240 --> 01:47:46,650
then it just went away. Cool.
Yeah. No, it's not cool. It's

1688
01:47:46,650 --> 01:47:49,980
not so. But so you know, I mean,
when you boost no agenda, it

1689
01:47:49,980 --> 01:47:54,270
goes to a whole bunch of other
people. Artists, it goes to Dred

1690
01:47:54,270 --> 01:47:58,290
Scott. It goes to Jeff Smith. I
mean, it goes to a whole bunch

1691
01:47:58,290 --> 01:48:02,490
of places. So you are helping
podcasting 2.0 When you boost no

1692
01:48:02,490 --> 01:48:04,290
agenda, it just doesn't help no
agenda.

1693
01:48:04,559 --> 01:48:06,479
Dave Jones: It just doesn't go
to you know, doesn't No, it

1694
01:48:06,479 --> 01:48:06,929
doesn't.

1695
01:48:08,310 --> 01:48:13,020
Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. I'm
getting in the mood for our

1696
01:48:13,020 --> 01:48:13,920
YouTube show.

1697
01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:19,440
Dave Jones: Comic Strip blogger,
the diameter limiter 3015.

1698
01:48:19,440 --> 01:48:22,800
Through fountain he says, howdy,
David. Adam. Please invite your

1699
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:28,530
listeners to visit my cartoon
blog at www dot CSB dot lol and

1700
01:48:28,530 --> 01:48:33,240
ask your listeners to follow me
on Twitter slash x at at CSB.

1701
01:48:33,660 --> 01:48:38,850
Just three letters C, S and B.
Then I'll follow back and answer

1702
01:48:38,850 --> 01:48:44,160
all questions. Yo C. Comic
Strip, comic strip,

1703
01:48:44,430 --> 01:48:51,570
Unknown: comic strip, comics,
comic strip comics jam comic

1704
01:48:51,570 --> 01:48:51,930
strip,

1705
01:48:52,680 --> 01:48:54,540
Adam Curry: probably one of the
oldest jingles I have.

1706
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:59,760
Dave Jones: We got let's see, we
get some monthlies. We get a

1707
01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:04,950
few. We get Trevor zener. $5. We
can't wait we only have we only

1708
01:49:04,950 --> 01:49:09,120
have to Jeremy Garrett's $5 The
one that I thought was a third

1709
01:49:09,120 --> 01:49:11,250
was actually a cancel
subscription for 11.

1710
01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:16,920
Adam Curry: Oops. Okay, we got
to we got to we got to Alright,

1711
01:49:16,920 --> 01:49:20,520
that's it. Those are the two
Okay, that's it. Yeah. Got it.

1712
01:49:20,580 --> 01:49:23,400
All right, nothing on the tally
coin but thank you all very much

1713
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:26,550
for supporting podcast,
podcasting. 2.0 supporting the

1714
01:49:26,550 --> 01:49:28,680
index opponent supporting the
podcast supporting the work

1715
01:49:28,680 --> 01:49:31,170
supporting the machines,
supporting the tables.

1716
01:49:31,830 --> 01:49:35,040
Everything that we do here and
you can go to podcast index.org

1717
01:49:35,220 --> 01:49:38,190
At the bottom of that page you
can find two red buttons one for

1718
01:49:38,190 --> 01:49:42,120
your Fiat fun coupons. We
obviously accept Paypal, you can

1719
01:49:42,120 --> 01:49:45,900
click on that the other one is
for tally coin, which if you if

1720
01:49:45,900 --> 01:49:47,820
you have some bitcoin, it's one
of those things like hey, you

1721
01:49:47,820 --> 01:49:50,370
can send an on chain Bitcoin,
big amounts, whatever you want.

1722
01:49:50,400 --> 01:49:54,450
And it doesn't really happen
dribs and drabs got SALLY Oh,

1723
01:49:54,480 --> 01:49:58,710
tell the hotel the hotel you but
we prefer that you get a modern

1724
01:49:58,710 --> 01:50:03,390
podcast, our podcast abs.com and
boost boost away we really

1725
01:50:03,390 --> 01:50:06,810
appreciate it his value for
value everything we have goes

1726
01:50:06,810 --> 01:50:09,810
right back into the project and
we real and it keeps us running

1727
01:50:09,810 --> 01:50:12,750
in case everyone falls down and
we go into some horror The only

1728
01:50:12,750 --> 01:50:16,200
thing we're not well I guess we
have all the stats stay on the

1729
01:50:16,200 --> 01:50:18,720
node but if we get
hyperinflation then the Pay Pal

1730
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:23,340
money's not going to matter. So
hopefully the Bitcoin will will

1731
01:50:23,370 --> 01:50:25,830
will be our saving grace when we
hit third lindo

1732
01:50:25,830 --> 01:50:29,700
Dave Jones: does take Bitcoin.
Oh, yeah. That's cool. They

1733
01:50:29,700 --> 01:50:30,930
don't take my name, but we can.

1734
01:50:32,640 --> 01:50:35,580
Adam Curry: Yeah, we can lose
some SATs in the submarine swap.

1735
01:50:36,780 --> 01:50:40,650
Dave Jones: Daniel J. Lewis said
CSB blocked me on Twitter. Well,

1736
01:50:40,650 --> 01:50:42,990
that's the boost was alive.

1737
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:47,160
Adam Curry: What? Why would he
do that? That doesn't sound like

1738
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:51,360
comic strip blogger. He doesn't
block people. You blocked me.

1739
01:50:51,450 --> 01:50:57,930
Don't block me. All right.
Anything else? Board meeting? I

1740
01:50:57,930 --> 01:51:01,110
got through my list. I have the
the music industry stuff I can

1741
01:51:01,110 --> 01:51:03,390
tell. Talk about that on the
next next show.

1742
01:51:03,780 --> 01:51:07,410
Dave Jones: Yeah, I got I got
two things on my list that that

1743
01:51:07,410 --> 01:51:09,450
I want to talk about next show
we can look at punt.

1744
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:11,970
Adam Curry: Okay. Well, thank
you very much, everyone who's

1745
01:51:11,970 --> 01:51:14,850
been listening. Thank you for
your live attendance at the

1746
01:51:14,850 --> 01:51:17,460
board meeting there in the chat
room. We appreciate everyone

1747
01:51:17,460 --> 01:51:20,640
boosting in live and of course
thank everybody who has been a

1748
01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:24,210
part of this magical project.
You know who you are. Thank you

1749
01:51:24,210 --> 01:51:26,310
for being here for the board
meeting. Have a great weekend

1750
01:51:26,310 --> 01:51:29,790
everybody. We'll be back next
Friday with another episode and

1751
01:51:29,790 --> 01:51:33,870
edition of the podcasting 2.0
board meeting. See you then. Bye

1752
01:51:33,870 --> 01:51:34,590
bye everybody.

1753
01:51:50,820 --> 01:51:55,380
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast

1754
01:51:55,380 --> 01:52:01,350
index.org for more information.
Cool, fantastic.