Episode 148: Flop Out

0:00 Adam Curry: Oh, my casting going oh for September 29 2023 Episode 148 slop out. Well, I'm kind of kind of joshing a little bit, even though we're recording this on a Thursday night on the 28th it is the official board room that meets outside of office hours. That's right podcasting 2.0 Here to talk about everything happening at podcast index.org all about the namespace and of course all the goings on in podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. He knows more about Ruston, Sanford and Son say hello to my friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen, Mr. De Jones.

0:44 Dave Jones: So I mean so literally like one minute ago and Brown of London posted on podcast index dot social, going to court in 15 minutes in Australia to hear the judgement from our hearing in the crypto class action on February 8, Tooth Fairy 22 out of three this year. I don't know what that means. Like in 15 minutes. He's going to be hearing the judgment from this lawsuit this been going on for like my entire life. Adam Curry: Right? You know, he's gonna be a billionaire by Friday by Saturday. Yeah, yes. This is the one this is the one where he gets rich. I know. I'm so excited for him. Dave Jones: Well, he says listen in if you want Microsoft teams meet your mic and cameras before.

1:26 Adam Curry: Oh, man, I can't believe we scheduled a board meeting on this particular day. Can you believe it? Dave Jones: Yeah, no, we're just gonna we're competing with the judge in a billion dollar lawsuit and Adam Curry: multibillion dollar lawsuit. Some of the feeling there'll be some kind of postponement seems like there's always something going on with that. Dave Jones: If you're a billionaire Brian, expect at least a donation. Adam Curry: Yeah. Israeli billion donation. Yes. $1,948,000. Dave Jones: Yes. Adam Curry: That's a good start and get started. Hey, brother, how you doing? Dave Jones: Good. We haven't had a late night boardroom and longtime longtime Adam Curry: Yeah, it totally my fault. I'm speaking in Houston this weekend and leaving tomorrow. actually leaving at noon so would have been really conflicted. I tried to tried to change it up and that didn't work. And this is The Spark Ignite conference.

2:22 Dave Jones: In Houston. This okay the year but you're at home now. Oh, yeah. No, I'm home now. Yeah. Okay. Then the spark thing. That's the Christian podcaster conference. Right. It's Adam Curry: the god caster conference. Dave Jones: So that's where all the podcasters did together. Adam Curry: I don't know all of them, but a lot of them. Yeah. Cool. I know Dave Jackson is gonna be there. I'm doing a panel with them. Dave Jones: I think blueberry goes down there. Adam Curry: I know blueberry sponsoring it. It's kind of cool. Because, you know, I've never I've never done a keynote room Dave Jones: after dark. Adam Curry: Hi, Eric peepee. I've never done a keynote for a podcast conference. If you can believe it.

3:05 Dave Jones: Wait, I thought you did the Go podcasting? Adam Curry: No, no, no, no, go No. Go podcasting was the Podcast Awards where I won. The only award have ever won is the audio production award. Dave Jones: Wait, you've never had like a, you invented podcast. And here's an award award. Adam Curry: I'm in the Hall of Fame. I guess that counts. But what I guess but the first podcast conference was the New Media Expo. And it was it was really, originally it was I think they had done a couple a couple of years of this New Media Expo before podcasting existed. And I guess it was, you know, like mp3 players or something. I don't really remember what it was. But then that that became the podcast conference at the New Media Expo in California. I want to say in Orange, California, Orange County, something like that. No, it's It's something that Ontario, California is a weird, weird idea. But it's Ontario.

4:09 Dave Jones: And that's a Orange County's. That's LA and all that. Yeah, Adam Curry: it's a little bit outside LA. And so the organizers, and I had pod show at the time, we had raised some money to start this podcast network. And the organizers said, Hey, man, you want to do a keynote? I said, Well, I mean, yeah, I guess I mean, I guess there was around for this for the for the creation of this thing. So why not? I say great. You need to send us $20,000 For gold sponsorship? No, yeah, that's exactly. And I'm like, What are you talking about? You will you just raise money, you should support the community. But no, I'm not supporting the community of supporting your conference. And it got it got really like it got really weird, like, well, you know, yeah, you're gonna do the keynote and And this is where I learned exactly how these conferences work is like you you buy a gold sponsorship, and then you get keynote. And I'm like, No, we're not going to do that. I mean, we just raised money to build this. And we hadn't raised all of our money. We had raised, I think $12 million, which is not a little bit of money, but we didn't have, you know, 20 Min was 25 grand in the budget. But yes, for that for that, but isn't enough that I'm coming to speak, won't that bring people to your conference? And so it became so weird that we actually went down there and did an unconference at the pool.

5:33 Dave Jones: Oh, this is the unconference that you told me Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And, Adam Curry: and of course, after that, I was never invited for a keynote. But also, I refused. Like, why would I? Why would I pay to speak? It makes no sense. So the only other time I spoke at a podcast conference was the horrible one we did in Dallas, where they snuck us in a back room during lunch, gave us no promotion. Dave Jones: That's your that's your podcast Hall of Fame. That's what it gets you the backroom during lunch break. Yeah. Adam Curry: So you know, like, no, and, and these people were so nice, actually came through. Rob Kirkpatrick who is one of the guys over there focused on the family, which is huge focus on the family, and then was have like, 15 million people listening to their podcast, and he's an advisor for this conference. Not big I think it's to 200 people, maybe 300 people.

6:26 And he said, Hey, man, could I interest you? And so I said, let me check it out. See what's going on? And on like, yeah, yeah, I'll do this. And it's like a dinner keynote. They do have some awards. I'm not quite sure exactly what's going on with that but so yeah, no, I can do that. I can swing that would be kind of fun. And so Tina is coming because she's a podcast. She's a god caster. And we're bringing our pastors a net and Jimmy their podcasts or Sue's? Dave Jones: Everybody's podcast, podcast or your podcast Adam Curry: so they're nominated for best new podcast best new way Yeah. Dave Jones: Killing it but they're killing it. Oh fountain I still have not heard a single episode but they are killing it on the fountain charts.

7:10 Adam Curry: Oh man. They're always in the chart but almost always. No. I mean, if you look at that chart like we're in it podcast and 2.0 occurring the keeper gets in there no agenda gets in there but sodas living up in a down world they're doing good Dave Jones: and I'm really I'm bringing it up right now so hot Adam Curry: I don't found so the whole idea for me is I want to get all of these God casters on value for value I want to get I want them to start thinking about how do we get worship music into that's a Christian from banned worship as Christian Dave Jones: for bands in the in the faith you have to learn all the Christian words that mean other words Adam Curry: what's really weird is that these days are called corporate worship music. And that just sounds so wrong. I mean corporate on this in this case the corporate means you know like something you do together like with the congregation but to me I hear corporate I'm like no that's commercial corporate like corporations Dave Jones: know when when I hear corporate corporate worship music I envision those like Japanese city CD companies that where they all have the they have like five songs that oh, your Sony we Adam Curry: hate Sony. Yeah, so that's not it. And I want it Yeah. This is this is my value for value pitch. I'm the my my keynote is on the future of podcasting. Well, just so happens we've been developing that

8:41 Dave Jones: this okay, well, this this is this is a good topic. So I don't listen to Christian podcasts. I listened to I listened to a podcast, I guess I do listen to one what you might call Christian podcast is called lords of the Spirit. It is it is a part of an orthodox podcast, but it do create quote unquote Christian podcasts. How do they make money? Are they mostly hanging off of another ministry? Or do they do advertisements? Adam Curry: I don't I don't I really don't know. I don't think there's I have a feeling there's not much advertisements going on. It could be I could be completely wrong. They may do Patreon or donations. I really don't know but I mean the pitch for value for value is So Emmys fits so well in the in you know like value I mean this this literally send value when you want what you want. It's like It's like tithing in a way only it doesn't have to be 10% to someone or whatever value you want. And the cool thing is that we can finally get music in there this and that. I'd say that's what I'm most excited about. Is you know the value for value music stuff.

9:55 Dave Jones: You know, we remember we played that clip a while back of but a buddy of mine who interviewed a somebody who's deep in the Christian music industry, and they and he, that guy said, a majority of Christian music is now owned by non Christian entities. No, Adam Curry: that's totally possible. Although the there's a couple of big churches one in Australia and there's another one the I was gonna say ever ever tide ever bright. This is a couple churches who are really they do a lot of the music and they you know, they sell the the stems or you know, I guess the multitrack so that the worship team can can play and if they don't have a piano or keyboard, you can just bring that track up. No, I don't know if it's not owned by by Christian entities.

10:51 And Dave Jones: I was sure. I wish I could find that clip. Adam Curry: I remember, what would it have been titled? I mean, it would be it would have been Dave Jones: Christian music or something along those lines, it would have had Christian in the title because that, that Adam Curry: Christian music publishing ownership, though, there you go, Unknown: do you happen to know? Or have you ever thought about who owns Christian publishing? You're not it's my understanding that at this point, it's almost entirely been gobbled up by big corporate music conglomerates and that it's really not owned or operated by, by the church in any way, shape, form or fashion and that it's just a money making. It's just another stream of revenue for them. But I'll give you a rundown because I just did a quick Google search. And this has been going on since Adam Curry: by the way if this is the state of Christian podcast today we have work to do. I mean, what is this memo recorder?

11:44 Dave Jones: I did not vouch for the quality, only the content. Unknown: The early 90s If not the the 80s that corporations ran this, you would start with things like word publishing. And that would be a dog gobbled up I remember they had a spin 20 something years ago, but the President of word music was not a Christian. I don't know who is now. But so I looked at some artists like Chris Tomlin Hillsong United Hillsong worship Michael W. Smith, David Crowder, that is run by Capitol music group. It was owned by Universal Music Group formed by a merger of EMI Christian music publishing and Brentwood Benson Music Publishing. They're headquartered in the Netherlands. Universal is owned by French company called the Vendee and a Chinese tech company called Tencent and I think if you anybody that wants to go just a little further, we'll find some very surprising things. And I think if we start at the top, you may Adam Curry: okay, it ends there, I guess elevation elevation as was thinking of and they do tours, elevation worship, they do big tours, they have all the publishing all the songs, and I'm talking like you know, 20,000 people 20 30,000 people at a time. These are this is big stuff, but I think that I think they are from a church but it may all have distribution

13:18 through big labels, it doesn't really matter. I mean, whatever is fine. I think just the whole I would say if anything, what I love most about value for value, particularly if you I mean if you're if you're not really you're not out to monetize it per se but the fact that you can see that someone is listening you know the streams that come in the streaming payments and this and what we're seeing is it works really well with living up in a down world where they have you know, there's they've kind of built a little community with the booster grams. There's a lot a lot of booster grams going on there. Dave Jones: Did they play musical nation? No, Adam Curry: no, not yet. No, the only Christian worship music we have is is one dorsals kid. We got well, I love J dog Mad Dog is excellent. I love me some J dog. Now Ben doorbells. Knocking Yeah. Anyway, so I'm looking forward to that. That will be fun. I'm in Italy, I think it'd be an interesting crowd. I know for sure. If you recall when we were at Podcast Movement, I think it might have been focused on the family guys, but there's some deep platforming going on. Now, they don't really want Christians you know, necessarily to show up at the conferences because, you know, you know you you might be a little polarizing towards the other participants.

14:43 Dave Jones: Oh, I don't I don't know what this. I don't know what you're talking about. Adam Curry: Literally. Some Christian podcasters have been uninvited from podcast conferences. Because you know, you're well if you're Christian, if You know, if you ask Christian questions or something that could trigger some of our other more sensitive participants? Dave Jones: Yes, this is a yeah, this is a thing that's very much going on. It's what's funny is, is how much of this sort of censorship out of podcasting is going on that, that you don't hear about, like, write it. It's not public. And Adam Curry: that's the beauty of censorship. Once you said, Yeah, somebody can't really talk about it.

15:32 Dave Jones: Yeah. I thought that oh, you know, I mean, you had a conversation this week on signal that there was somebody else that we were like, yep, self censoring. You can just see. And maybe it's Glenn Greenwald. Their time because Adam Curry: oh, well, I'm glad you bring this up. No, this was this was about rumble. And, and actually, it was a continuation I do have a clip. Hola. Hello. I have a clip to share. You know, so the, what the, what we were talking about on the last episode was you know, they're going after platforms and they're doing it by going after advertisers. And the BBC is now participating in going around and sniffing around podcast I guess hosting companies to see Oh, you are you know, you got any ads going on there for I'm you know, Russell Brand, which the insinuation is, we're doing a story. And just like the guy from Barstool Sports, Dave Portnoy, we're doing as you know, we're doing a story about people who advertise on Russell Brand. Are you still advertising on that horrible man's podcast?

16:40 That's the basic idea. Dave Jones: And you have five minutes to respond. We got deadline by one. Adam Curry: Exactly. So here's a clip from the news movement. And they are a news organization that in the news movement.com I'm not exactly sure who's funding them but they don't have any ads but there's a lot of people on staff. And this is the report that they put out about Russell Brand and rumble Unknown: massive brands including Burger King, a source London's Barbican Centre and HelloFresh and pulled advertising from Russell Brand's rumble channel through the company's removed their ads from rumble altogether often the news movement found they were appearing alongside brands videos Burger King has paused advertising on brands channel while broadcasters and police look at claims of rape and sexual assault against him brand has a huge audience on rumble with over 1.4 million followers. There's been concerned about the increasing discussion of conspiracy theories on his videos like comedians been accused of rape or sexual assault against for women. He denies the claims to them approach other brands including Ralph Lauren, eBay and Hilton Hotels. These ads all appeared on brands channel but none of them reply to requests for comment YouTube suspended as from the channel on their site for allegedly violating create policies and the BBC is removed some shows brand made while working their Burger King said the company had paused all advertising while investigations into the allegations of ongoing Asus declined to comment but TNM understands the company removed their ads this week. Hello Fresh said thanks for pointing this out to us. We have manually removed our ads from rump at the Barbican said we've now asked our media agency to exclude this

18:12 site from where our ads appear. Rabu has said it doesn't plan to remove ads from branded content altogether. But it hasn't replied to requests for comment. Google and brand himself have yet to reply to us either. Adam Curry: So you see what they're doing. Dave Jones: They missed they missed the perfect opportunity say that brand is accused of a whopper of an accusation and disappointed. Adam Curry: Yeah. So that's, that's how it works. And that and that and you know, they are clearly I mean, my God, the woman the the MP who sent the note to the rumble CEO, Dave Jones: Dame do whatever day let's draw it. Adam Curry: So that her her husband was in the unit 77 or something which is the psyops warfare unit of the British military. Who also who also did you know, all the all the COVID stuff. So these people are serious. I mean, these are serious people who want Russell Brand gone and then they're going to take down rumble or anybody else if they have to.

19:17 And so Glenn Greenwald. That's what what our conversation was about. He switched from substack to locals. And locals, I believe was acquired by Rumble and rumble has secondary currency. You know, they have they have stock, which is not under $2 Like a podcast one. Although it's not far from it, they open a lot. They've gone down significantly. Dave Jones: Don't invest in rumble. Let's just say that. Adam Curry: No, I mean, I wouldn't give any stock advice but no, no, no, it none of this seems like a really good idea. Um, there's just not a lot of belief in the market. Actually Did you hear the new media show?

20:03 Dave Jones: I hear I heard most of it. I guess they kind of wondered at the end so have bailed out. But I heard a lot of it. Oh, the wonder out they were talking about the, the advertising. Yeah, yeah. This is when he contacted them about skimming or something. Adam Curry: Well, there's that part that, you know, Todd is all I love, Todd. I can't talk about it. There's stuff going on. And maybe soon I'll let you know. Yeah. But here's, I didn't really put this all together. Because he was talking to it's all about measurement. And I guess someone is out there trying to do a story and figure out if podcast companies are overstating download numbers. That's just my cursory understanding of what what he was saying. However, amidst that pops up that the announced the you know, the news story, that a cast was no longer going to work with Spotify guys. numbers with Spotify, audience numbers or whatever, I guess they have some service.

21:06 Dave Jones: And their their their I think it's the stuff that backs megaphone, and they're that kind of thing, right. Adam Curry: And now they they announced the partnership, which was on last week's pod news weekly review, of course, we haven't heard this week's pod news weekly review, because we're taping this Thursday evening. So we don't have our show prep. But you know, they had the guy from a cast on, and it was all sold under the guise of all we only do open open systems, you know, open this and has to be open and, and what and what the company that they work with who you know, maybe they'll acquire, I guess they do attribution. What's the name of the company Dave? We'll look at the positives. We've got pod scribe, heartless cod something, pod scribe plays a pod scribe. I think they do pixel tracking or something else. And so they basically do numbers and let you know, let the advertiser know, how they're how the ad performed, is Dave Jones: last announced this pod scribe has global global preferred attribution partner and Adam Curry: right, but they refuse to work with Spotify. And Todd said something that really made it all come together in my head, he said, you know, Spotify actually has real numbers. They know exactly how many people have listened. They know what they listened to how long they listened to it. So their numbers are going to be much more accurate than downloads, because

22:37 they track everything in the player. So my simple conclusion is that a cast who, you know, they, they do ad based media. They either don't want Spotify numbers, because they're much less than their reporting. Or maybe more than whatever it is, is not the same as what they're reporting. And I suspect that Spotify is numbers show people aren't really listening. They're listening to a little bit, you know, maybe it's half a show. I'm thinking there's trouble in paradise. And then I hear Todd and Rob like, oh, yeah, well, we had all that fixed. You know, we had it all fixed with IAB. And now it's all complicated. And we're back No, 15 years in time. This thing is breaking apart.

23:30 This down to this download base metric for advertising is falling apart. Dave Jones: I think you're exactly right. With this. You could see this coming down Broadway. I mean, because the attribution. So there's a Do you have my clips from last week? I don't know if I clipped the attribution that I have a clip from last week that has anything to do with attribution. Adam Curry: Attribution. Hold on a second. Dave Jones: So there's this podcast called Adam Curry: how sure it was last week, because you had podcast one stuff. Dave Jones: It was there was a thing called for media roundtable. Yes, Adam Curry: yes. Yes, I do. I have a media roundtable. Dai fail.

24:13 Dave Jones: That's not it. You can play that. But that's not it. That's good Unknown: in working with an ad agency or partner on this type of work for your advertising campaigns, go to Oxford road.com. It's easy to spell and get in touch with us or at least just sign up for our free newsletter, the influencer. That's Oxford. Dave Jones: Fail. So this is this. Yeah. This is dynamic ad insertion. So this is from a podcast called Media roundtable put on by Oxford Road, which is a advertising agency. They help people with their podcast advertising, they. So you could say that This podcast, they are also on the podcast one network.

25:05 So anything you should you could say that this podcast should be it should be to they add to digital advertising as podcasting 2.0 is to podcast namespace features should be the crown jewel of demonstrating what is possible and the quality of advertising that you can get, Adam Curry: you would be able to do what you'd expect it to be Primo, Primo, Primo, but Dave Jones: they cut off their own dynamic ad halfway through the rate. And then you can be right in the middle of telling people where to go if they're interested in the product. So it was like, you know, go to AWS for other kind of shows this, this is a this but this show, they also had this long. And I list this, I'm sure that people are nice there. But this show is very boring. Listen, listened to a lot of it. And they had this.

26:00 They had this panel at some conference, I didn't quite pick up what conference this was. But it was a panel on all kinds of digital advertising people that were in one of the panels was on attribution. And the they were talking about using different forms of attribution to track advertising success. And basically every vert to make, I'll clip it and bring it next week. But every version of it was something with some roundabout where it's like, well, this is what we do. And this is what we've been doing. And here's how we do it. And here's what we have our experiences it has been, but really actually it doesn't work. Every time. It was all like at the very end, there was a caveat of you know, but it really didn't work anyway. So this, all of the all of this in House of Cards that's been built on IP attribution, like one lady was saying that they use one of the, you know, these tracking pixels, and they use these creepy IP address sniffers trackers, to Yeah, or IP brokers. That's what like these IP addresses, Adam Curry: they can connect into your credit card.

27:24 Dave Jones: And they try to connect the traffic coming from your IP address, from a download over back over to where you bought something on, you know, some makeup on a web, you know, Ulta beauties website or something. All of this is just a completely flimsy House of Cards. Nobody. Nobody can attribute correctly. It's all a lie. Every bit of it. None of this surprises me at all. I think you're exactly right. And there's lots not not be outright willing. No, it's I call that a fraud. But there is a lot of people that understand that the numbers are very squishy.

28:08 Adam Curry: Yeah, and they vary from podcast hosting company to podcast hosting company, it's, it's a mess. And it's also not, it's not a really great way to do it. It's just never been a great way to do it. It never has. And there's all kinds of reasons for it, which we don't have to delve into it. So they came up with the standard, the IAB and they wanted to get certified. But then I think Spotify really came in and ruined it. Because no one has da, no one has no time spent listening numbers, except that are really accurate, you would presume except Spotify. And you know, because they're not basing they're basing off of player data. And they're selling the ads into that player data. And so they have something that is, I think, is unique. And it's a real problem. And I would say that is probably the reason why we got the Oh no, no, we have to be open and we don't like the close nature of Spotify. I'm questioning that now. I'm not wanting to accuse anybody, but for sure there's disparity here. And that's what Todd love him for it because Todd just we call them in the old country of flip out. Flip out he just just just flopped something out, you know, it's like oh, what's the flip flops out of Todd's mouth there?

29:30 Dave Jones: This is a great thing about the Dutch language is most is many times the words are just slightly altered versions of of English word. It's not flopped out. It's flip out. Adam Curry: It's flipped out Yeah. FL ap you it flop out so it'd be flop flop. flop out. And there's nothing wrong with it, but it just I hear that I'm like, hold on a second. That's an issue. Now more news from the Netherlands. Okay. Parliamo so parliamo is another Swedish company I guess they raised about 150 million euros. And you know, they've been going around Europe and buying up podcasts and podcast networks and putting it all behind the paywall five euros a month.

30:15 Dave Jones: It's great idea and Adam Curry: a whole bunch of Dutch podcasters. This was a newspaper article, a whole bunch of Dutch podcasters sold into them and whatever, whatever that means. I hope they got paid, I don't know, or got some kind of guarantee. And so they all went behind the paywall. And, lo and behold, there's no way to get more Dutch people to listen to the podcast, because they have no discoverability. So they wound up doing this like a tent on a market square, where they were doing their podcast live trying to get people to sign up and subscribe. And so they literally had to go to the people live and in person to have people discover them and they were interviewing people said oh, you know when went behind the paywall. Now I just went on Spotify found some other podcasts, it was kind of cool. I like that one. But no, not maybe I'll subscribe to him again. Now that here, they were pretty good. I like their rants and stuff. But this is the biggest problem. And this is when you then get into well, here's some here's some premium stuff here.

31:26 But you know, we'll give you a little bit of give you a little taste here. It doesn't work. Discoverability has to be open and available. And so I'm just thinking how flawed this model really is. There's a God and to get all these popular podcasts, let's say, let's I'm going to be very generous. Let's say you get 30% like him 10 times value for value. Let's say you get 30% of people who are listening to podcasts for free with ads or not. Who then say okay, I'm gonna sign up for five euros a month, and I'll get this podcast and a whole bunch of other ones. But that's probably a decent conversion rate. Then what? How do you grow it? You advertise in the paper? You know? Yes. How do you grow it? How do you grow something that has been a popular show, as I understand taking a popular show behind the paywall, but that's it, you can only kind of go down yeah, you might get some people who come in from other shows. I just don't see the I just don't see the multiplier after that. How do you create discoverability behind a paywall?

32:33 Dave Jones: So here, here's an interesting, okay, this brings this makes me think of something. And it kind of it ties in with what you were talking about a while ago. Imagine let's let's let's do a thought experiment and say that the Obamas Africa with that Michelle Obama podcast was called the windows exclusive to Spotify, Michelle Obama Adam Curry: podcast, oh, they should have called us out if they didn't Dave Jones: imagine that her show started out on open RSS on RSS feeds, and not as an exclusive in Spotify? Would it have what would the download numbers have been? Like? Where would it have ranked in the charts? In these Rancors? I'm thinking that it would have ranked pretty high?

33:31 Adam Curry: I think so. So it would they would have gotten a lot of heat. A lot of people would have been sampling it out for sure. You know, they only had Spotify to rely on they later they remember they did open it up when they couldn't fill the inventory. Dave Jones: Yeah. And so if the based on your theory, if it had been a RSS, podcast, distribution and not on Spotify, then the numbers would have been artificially high in RSS world. And it may not have gotten canceled, necessarily as soon as it did. But because Spotify can see actual numbers for a show like that. Real numbers not not fake download numbers. They, they saw that this show actually was not being listened to. So they cut it. They cut it loose.

34:27 Adam Curry: Yeah, that's possible. I mean, I think it came down to the timing of it was just all financial, you know, they'd spent so much money nothing was working. There was nothing was coming back. I think the Obamas are arrogant, you know? Much like the the more goals you know, the Harry and Megan I think they you know, just arrogant and you know, but it was what $20 million or whatever. Dave Jones: And that is bad example bad except so let's take Do you remember that other show? That Ah, let's, let's break up the name. I think that's the name. And let me let me see if I can find in the index. I think it's called Let's break up.

35:12 Maybe not see, it was a show that was that that Spotify bought? And took it exclusive even though that's what that just breakup. I think that's what it was. Yeah, there it is just breakup. So they, yeah. Okay, this is what I thought. Okay. So it was called Just break up. They got bought this was early on during us doing this show, maybe the first year of our of our show. And we played clips of it. And because it was, you know, it was all funny because they were doing the Spotify pitch at the time, which was tell everybody that they don't need a credit card to sign up for the app. Yeah, yes, I Adam Curry: do remember this? Yes.

35:54 Dave Jones: So they, they did that for like, two months, and then they went exclusive. They are now not exclusive anymore, they have gone back to RSS. And so this again, fits in with what you're saying if they're what these these shows that have seemingly big download numbers. And then they and then they get brought into the Spotify ecosystem where Spotify can see actual statistics on how people are listening. And they see that the numbers are actually dreadful, then, you know, compared maybe not dreadful overall, but dreadful compared to what they were supposed to be.

36:35 Adam Curry: And I think you're going to see, they probably touted. I'm just guessing, we're just guessing here, they probably touted all these great statistics, including time spent listening. And that's where they lost it. That's where people want out the people and listen to 10 minutes or half an hour or an hour of this two hour show. And you know, yeah, I think it has something to do with that. Dave Jones: That's a good point. Yeah, that's spent listening was probably way low. Yeah. They'll they'll listen to a little bit and then bail out. And they don't actually get any ads because they bill, possibly. So they can't they can't satisfy you Adam Curry: can't get the inventory. Whereas if you have downloads wow, I mean, download, of course they heard it. Of course, of course, of Dave Jones: course, just by its binary, you either have a download. Exactly, Adam Curry: exactly. And so all of this to say that, and I'm really sorry. I mean, I'm not dancing on anybody's grave here.

37:36 And I tried this, I tried this, I tried it, and it didn't work. And I know all the pitfalls, so I know why it's difficult. And it's just coming apart at the seams, we had a real beautiful moment. 2019 Joe Rogan signs with Spotify, big money, everyone's all jacked. This is great pandemic. Everyone's in actually listening went up and creation of podcast went up and more big names are signed, and it's all exciting, and it's all fabulous. And then out comes the as expected the numbers that Spotify could not monetize. I mean, they couldn't make a profit. They could not make a profit off of this idea, which was let's cut all these. And let's get all these exclusives.

38:25 Let's you know, let's do a hits based record company, where we're the record company, the radio station and the end the store. You know, it just doesn't it has never worked that way with podcasts. And then moving forward. This was look, I understand that YouTube wants to you know, incorporate podcasts. But to close your podcast app. What? Dave Jones: Yeah, I have some thoughts on this like alright, Google just hates RSS. They always Adam Curry: says yes, yeah, because it's it is the only real competitor to what they do.

39:07 Dave Jones: You can't google that. My, in my opinion, goop this lawsuit that they're going through now Adam Curry: the anti competition anti competitive lawsuit, the Dave Jones: the end and then brought, you know, Brown of London, they'll finish them off, but Adam Curry: they're going down. Dave Jones: That the anti competitive lawsuit is exposing a lot of a lot of stuff. That's not that digital advertising market is not a healthy market overall. And for them. I mean, it works in traditional media because of the you know, like you've said many times because of limited ad space, Adam Curry: you can create artificial demand because you only have 24 hours in a day Dave Jones: per channel. So what the thing that came out in the lawsuit quickly The during discovery was that Google had been jacking, jacking up the ad the ad rates to meet their quarterly, their quote their meet their quarterly revenue targets. And so if they needed an extra little use of revenue and all the dials, yeah, turn it up another 8% on there, because they they're basically a monopoly in the ad search in the search ad business. And so this, this is all coming out. You can't do that in RSS. You can't do those things. It's low revenue to begin with. They don't really they've never

40:39 really had a revenue play. So to me, they're, they're circling the wagons, not just on on podcasting, but on all of their, all of their products, really, their whole, the whole Google ecosystem. They're now built, they're now building higher walls, to keep revenue to keep their revenue in so that you like YouTube. If people think that they that did, if people think that Apple is going to put a podcast app on Android. Adam Curry: So hilarious every single time I hear that, no, not no, they want people to use their devices. And you know, and they, Apple still has a great rep for it. You know, here's a podcast app, it comes with the iPhone people, okay.

41:26 Dave Jones: And so they're, they're not a Google is not going to spin. They're not going to lift a finger spend a DOM, on podcasting, on anything that's based on RSS, because all they want to do is just funnel you into YouTube so that they can monetize it and bring it into their, into their world is they they get no benefit from RSS. They don't they this is not the fact that they cancelled, Google podcasts is not a surprise. They don't care and they never have. Adam Curry: And it's still baffling to me that they're putting. I mean, they looked at Spotify and said, Wow, that worked really well. Let's put podcasts into our music app. Dave Jones: Yeah, Adam Curry: I did you not, do not understand that. And you know, and as far as I can tell from their from their blog post, which is, of course, everyone's running around, like, Whoa, is what Google's doing this. Google doesn't talk to anybody doesn't doesn't give interviews doesn't tell anybody actually what's happening? Certainly not in the podcasting community.

42:29 Dave Jones: I think, you know, it's funny enough, I remember I forget who this was. This has been a couple of years ago, somebody was making a comment about Google. It may have been Paul throt. Whoever this was, we're saying that nobody really knows what's going on over there anymore. And hid. I think it was him who said that, in his opinion. They had been, they made so much money so fast, because they I mean, they were really, they really were the first true tech unicorn. And I mean, before before Apple, you know, before Apple came back, and so they they made so much money so fast, that they just lost their way. They don't know what to do. They don't really nobody's in charge. You know, I don't think they look like a headless ship. 90% of the time. They feel like, that's for sure.

43:29 Yeah. And then and this is just another, you know, they were never going to do anything with RSS anyway. But just like stepping back even further, and just looking at them as a company. I mean, I don't see if I think if I think out 10 years, I think Google looks I think they just look like a search engine. I'm not sure anything else that they do Adam Curry: bad search engine, because it only plugs stuff that is advertised. I mean, it's just true. We know it's true. Dave Jones: It's true, like Alta Vista, champ more and more every day. Adam Curry: Yeah. And that's what Google blew out of the water.

44:11 Dave Jones: And now it's turning back into that. Adam Curry: So the next issue with YouTube music and podcasting, which is the topic everyone's talking about, it's here to top of pod news. With the the closure of the app. It's like, well, will they have passed through, get Dream on? That I had a dream. You're gonna get no numbers from Google. Yeah, because Google has their own special metric, which is, oh, three seconds was listened to. Yeah, that's a lesson. Dave Jones: Yeah. Well, Spotify is 20 milliseconds, or whatever that is, I Adam Curry: mean, so you know, so it's, it's just a non starter. And, and again, I wonder, Where is the $2 billion I mean to $2 billion that has to be just like maybe is that 50 podcasts that somehow are responsible for this? I mean, I hear I hear numbers like, oh, they have, you know, 500,000 downloads a month. Oh, crap, I got that.

45:18 Dave Jones: Yeah. Are you? How many billions did you make this year? Adam Curry: Zeros zeros, like in Satoshis Satoshis level milli SATs. Dave Jones: So I think like, if we look at if we just look at podcasts, they're legitimately worth what their deal was. I mean, to me, none of Rogan, Joe Rogan actually is the only one I can think of that probably bring, he probably drives enough revenue to justify the deal he got. Adam Curry: I have no idea. I hear the spots for some reason.

45:59 Even though I pay for Spotify, I get the Joe Rogan ads. And especially watch the video they stop every like is that every couple of minutes, and the video goes away. And you get no oh, here's Joe, you often for Look, maybe that's all localized by get local Austin companies. And I'm not necessarily getting I'm not hearing BMW know what I mean. But he was very important for the stock price. He did great for the stock price. I mean, if you look at their chart, it's very suppressed right now compared to what it was. But I mean, he added billions of dollars of market cap and thus, you know, perceived value to the company. Dave Jones: And I think he's, I don't think they can get out from under that. I think the next time when he comes up for renewal, I think they re up that show, because if they lose him, it will have an equally down pressure on that stock price. It will take it surely it will take Adam Curry: you know, this is something that I don't discuss with Joe. Right. I'm kind of pissed off. You sent me a text today. Hey, do you want to race cars at the at the racing track on Monday?

47:08 Dave Jones: Yeah, you do that as always? Yes. Right. Yeah. Unfortunately, Adam Curry: I'm already committed to some stuff. So I can't like the worst thing is like, hey, we can write real racing cars come hang out like, oh, I have a feeling have bases on nothing. But I think I mean, he's got to be up for renewal soon. I have a feeling that He'll do whatever. Well, firstly, he can do whatever he wants. I think he loves the relationship. It doesn't matter how much or how little money may be the only give him the ads. I don't know. I don't think he cares. He wants to have this market. He loves doing it. At this point, he really doesn't have to work for money, obviously. But you know, he I think he only had to deliver like three Shows a week and he does five. I love it. I just love it. I just I just love having all the guests here. I'd love talking to everybody. to I don't think they'll renew it to that. No one really actually knows the numbers, you know, every like, Oh, it's 100,000,200. I've heard 300 million. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. And, and Joe and I just don't talk business that way. But yeah, I would never ask is rude. I don't care. You know, he seems happy. That's all I care about.

48:27 Dave Jones: And I would I would think, I guess I guess my let me say it this way. Regardless of actual numbers. I think he's worth more to them now than he was when they first signed him. Adam Curry: They never talk about him. That's the thing. He's never in a press release. They never talk about him. He's never in any campaigns for investors or otherwise. That's the part that makes me that makes me question what you're saying is like, if hit Dave Jones: if the headlines hit that Joe Rogan least Spotify? Yeah, I'm with you on that that would be a dog gets massacred? Adam Curry: Well, especially if you have I mean, if Google Google music, if they said, Hey, Joe, come over here. I don't know. I don't know. I have no idea. It doesn't really matter.

49:19 Because that's he's an anomaly. That's something that's, you know, he's a some crazy force of nature. I don't think we'll ever see anything like that again. But it's also not what the what podcasting is podcasting is what we're doing. Podcasting is what is you know, it's it's gonna be your your little group here. We have to get over this number one rancor type of mentality. Right. It's like, what do you need to do what you do and that's for me, that's no agenda. I mean, we keep doing it. People keep sending back Are you? We've built it up over, it'll be 16 years in October. I do a lot more stuff, but I'd be perfectly happy if that's all I did in my life. Because I have a dog, I have a wife, you know, the kids are okay. You know, if they need a couple bucks, you know, they can't make the rent, I can help them out. That's life. That's beautiful. I don't have to worry about staff.

50:25 Dave Jones: Staff, nobody wants to worry about staff. So that's not fun. And that Adam Curry: and that, to me is is what podcasting is so beautiful at. Yeah, so I don't need to make a pitch for value for value, but you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, I Dave Jones: totally do. And that's a great and that's a perfect thing for the spark, you know, for executive podcasters because most of them I would imagine 99% of Christian podcasters are not doing it for for the for a business they're doing it out of a ad because they enjoy it. And because it's something they want to do for some reason in their life. They want to Adam Curry: do it for God, I guess but we got a who sent this dovie das who's listening to our says blue.com Everybody 15,000 SATs, he says talk to a church that does I guess he he has a client, maybe talk to her church does a prayer podcast, even V for V is difficult, because you need to ask for value, which may ruin the experience similar to RSS music, we need to we need ways to ask for value outside of the episodes themselves. So there's a couple things there. So I just want to say one I disagree. Church passes around a plate or a basket or a bucket or whatever. And and there's there is an implicit ask. And what I love about value for value is the booster grabs it's it's the feedback mechanism. He I mean, you you give you give people

51:56 responses to their booster grams. I've heard pastors Jimmy and Annette, do it. I hear them do it. And it was hard for them. So they're not really saying Hey, pay our rent, which you know, which I've never done on no agenda either, necessarily. I said all I know I can do keep doing the show. If I can pay my rent, then RSS music. I think we've cracked that code. The artists don't have to ask for it. The podcasters do it for them. I am literally shilling for the artists. And it's it to me it's great value, I get a little piece but I also get to do a show with music. Thank you for letting me play your music.

52:39 Now people go and support them. I am not a big believer in and from there. I think people you know like the way fountain does you subscribed. them quite do it that way. But I think fountain should make it that way. Or every app should make it that way. Here's the songs played in this show. Now you can easily subscribe to this artist. And then when the artists add something, it should pop up just like a new episode does. Oh, there's new music from the doorbells, which would be every hour. And then you know, and I still have my streaming number set. So when I'm listening, I'm streaming and if I dig a track, I'll boost it. And then and there and we already have the thing. Steven B's emporium of apps has the you know the reply to system already set up. We don't have but you know, I can see this working, I can see reply twos you know, so the artists can reply to you. So the booster gram mechanism, this is a beautiful thing. So and it's, you're going to do better, with podcast playing you and people discovering you and then subscribing to you to your album to you as an artist or whatever it is that you're going to do in any other system right now.

53:59 People just aren't making money on the music they're making. I mean, why is Beyonce still touring? Yeah, okay. Yeah, because she just loves it cuz she loves it now. Because that's where the money is. Yeah. Dave Jones: That is speaking speaking of. Can we divert? Yeah, sure into the into top 100 talk for a second. Adam Curry: Are you kidding me? Top 100 Talk is my middle name. Dave Jones: The top 100 has way more than 100. Adam Curry: Yes. And I realized why? Because you have so many ties. Dave Jones: Is that correct? Well, well, it's only pull it up. Adam Curry: We have almost 200 nodes the top coming in at number 187 of the top 100 this week. I don't know if it's I think it's hilarious. Sometimes I saw 97 Or like at the top 197 entries this week.

54:55 Dave Jones: So Ron Ron Plouffe third cousin, married to Dave Employee of the Obamas conveyed to me that he said this is going to become a problem, this top 100 is going to become more and more is going to go way, way beyond top 100. If the in if your entry floor into the top 100 is only one boost. So everybody, if you even get a single boost, you're in the top one, you know you're in this chart. And because I did not give it a hard upper limit of Adam Curry: 100, but can't you just say 100 and 101? is you're not on the chart?

55:39 Dave Jones: I could we could 100 We could say Adam Curry: unfortunately then numbers, lots of music. And I was gonna say number 90 through number 101 117. Just 27 songs all have the same amount for four boosts. Right, that's where you run into trouble, I guess because it's it's basically it's a tie. Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. And so he Okay, he said, the median number of the median number of booths is still five. As it's been all week. Also, just as another reference point, the sum of the booths for titles, one 101 through 195 only represent 12% of the sum of all the boosts in one through 195. This math is hurting my brain. What does that mean? It's nine o'clock at night.

56:39 Adam Curry: What is the what is this mean? What is this this wicked math mean? Dave Jones: So he's saying that basically there's a by the time you get to one a 101 the whole entire rest of the chart is only 12% of the total of booth booths counts. So the total number of booths for the entire chart is 2072 but 101 through 195 Only, it only covers 12% of that, which doesn't bother Is this the thing is like I don't necessary if I scroll down here to one, let's just say 154 Maybe that's a great song.

57:21 Adam Curry: Well, this is my point. I've never seen this as a gold star. To me, this is a discovery mechanism. Again, I get when I start when I get on Mondays when I get ready to do booster Graham ball. I go into number of places and one of them is definitely this top 1000 And I'm like oh I don't know this song. It got some boosts click I want to see what this is. Oh, I know this. Okay, this only has four boosts because as you know there hasn't been played any more for a while so I understand why that's kind of going down. Now. The thing that I think is not a problem, but it looks weird is so numbers. No offense TJ numbers 9293 94 is all sir TJ the raffle. So that just leaves you with a banjo that just looks kind of weird on a chart Dave Jones: is because somebody went in there boosted the album as they were listening to the piano. I Adam Curry: understand. I understand. Yeah. So did were there any Dave Jones: freaks me out a bit? The chicken the mass? That's a little Adam Curry: George T drag, huh? So what do we want to do about it? Anything? Nothing.

58:37 Dave Jones: We don't do anything about anything really? Do we actually do things about? Adam Curry: We don't do anything? We try not to? Let's not do any work. But did Plouffe have any suggestions? Dave Jones: He said focus hard on the South Carolina primary. Okay, sure. No, he didn't know he's he did not. He did not have any suggestions. I think. I don't know. I think it's cool for now. I mean, I like having lots of stuff on this list. It feels better to me, to to have when there's lots of things on here. To me that's more important than how many boosts anything gets. Yeah. Because it just shows the quantity of stuff and all of this stuff has good album art. Like, I don't know, this is just a good looking. This is an impressive list of the quantity of music that's available value for value now and I like the feel of that.

59:50 Adam Curry: I'm with you on that. Now I'm comparing to the wavelength top 40 Dave Jones: And um, how many how many does their tough 40 have on it? Adam Curry: That's funny enough 40 Dave Jones: Because they some other people know what they're doing. Don't know what we're doing well, no, Adam Curry: they only they only can do a chart of music that's on wavelike and we have we got all the crazy people. Everything that's out there is audio and video. Stephen B's app Emporium. I mean he does all this a lot of a lot of self hosted music. People are helping each other out. So here I see Skrill a bobcat? Which I learned is actually Bobby shell.

1:00:36 Dave Jones: How about that? Oh, as a pin net. He's got a pseudonym. Adam Curry: No, no, that may just just different. Hey, I think that's interesting, actually is that one guy is multiple artists. So look at the top three. Number one. Blind to you. scrilla bobcat. Number two paperboy featuring scrilla Bobcat number three Bobby shell with a song. I haven't even heard beef steak and trade wives. Trad wives. So now and let me see how many stats does this have? 180,000 for the new Bobby show. scrilla Bobcat number. See that has 241 So what I'm smelling here is because they're not doesn't even show up. Let me see Bobby show. Bobby shell. So that new song isn't even hasn't even been played on podcast. So the stakes Dave Jones: and tread tread one. Yeah. It's in the index.

1:01:37 Adam Curry: Prom shirts in the index. Dave Jones: I see it. Yeah, just pulling it out. Now if we Adam Curry: look at scrilla Dave Jones: scrilla in Manila. Adam Curry: scrilla has. Okay, the top scrilla lying to you is currently number 28. So 919 boosts? Okay, that seems possible. So I think what we're seeing here is exactly the problem we wanted to avoid is that you can come in with a big baller boost and put someone on the top chart, which could stay there for weeks, because you send 500,000 sets. Whereas the number of actual participating people, I find much more exciting. So if I look at Nate, John 769 booths that's that's a lot. Yeah, and I know that I row in exile. I know they're popular. I know that people are playing them. So it's totally it's two different things. But I like our chart, I go down this all the time. And then Ellen beach.com from Steven B's app Emporium.

1:02:46 Dave Jones: The curio cabinet of apps is Adam Curry: you know, you throw that thing on. On random and an Off it goes and it plays the whole top top 100 200 songs. Dave Jones: So so we just renamed we just it's a top 100 Maybe we should rename it to top 100 And something Adam Curry: something top 100 events. Dave Jones: Man more. Yeah. Well. Yeah. So one thing about the one other thing about the chart and then we can move on, is you know, it really feels odd to have this chart with all this that looks so nice and is telling you about all this music and not be able to listen to the music.

1:03:41 Adam Curry: Yes, this is this is a very big problem. I agree because but I don't necessarily be an app. Exactly. I don't want us to be a destination. I love I love Steven but that's why you made OPML and JSON and and whatever versions. Dave Jones: So here I've got an idea. What if we made it where you can just do like a sample? A little, a little play button where you can hear like 10 seconds. Is that still not a good idea? Adam Curry: I don't I can't even tell you why. I mean this to me is just, this is just a place where you can see it. I want people to go to lm beats.com I want people to see the top 100 And by the way, maybe LM beats chops it off at 100 Why doesn't fountain show the top I mean I know why but I would love to see it and fountain I'd love to see it in pod verse. I'd love to see it all over the place. I want it to be exported. I don't think the minute we start doing little bits and bobs. I think we just run we just make trouble for ourselves because then you know you're doing that. Well. You might as well add the boost capability Dave Jones: that I want. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't want it Okay, Adam Curry: I don't and I don't want to compete with the with the Steven B Emporium.

1:05:04 Dave Jones: I don't want to compete with the ABS either. And that has been like that has been competing with ABS has been the has been anathema to everything that we believe in since day one. We will never compete with ABS on on this play on this ground. So, but here's the issue. Right now, the link, if you click on a song takes you to the podcast into and then you can listen there. And you can listen and boost. That's not That's not good. We want to push people to apps. And how do so how do we do after we send people to apps? Well, I because without playing favorites, too, right?

1:05:49 Adam Curry: I don't know how many people I mean, we set this that well, let's just stay with the app part. Okay. I think if anything, we did this for ourselves. I just want you to like, hey, what about this pocket? Okay, yeah, here it is, I'm gonna listen a little bit, okay, good. Just just to confine it, find the RSS feed, you know, find out information about the split. I do not listen to podcasts on podcasts. index.org, I may just check something out. But you know, the play button is just there. And, you know, and, and because of value for value being new. And you know, we that's why the boost capability was added. And this is all kind of legacy stuff. But I would love nothing more than in the future to turn all that off.

1:06:31 Well, I know we shouldn't even we should just shut down the website. Just be an API and kill it. Headless index, Dave Jones: headless Drupal, we're gonna run it on a headless Drupal, the so I agree. And the only thing that, to me the I think 90% of what people do with our website when it comes to boosts is, hey, if you don't have a podcast and 2.0 app, go boosters through the podcast index. Yeah, like it's a fallback. Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah. But it's, we've never promoted it, per se. Dave Jones: No, no, no. But so. So how do we, I just some, I just don't like that it goes to our website. And I don't know how to make that not happen. But what what goes to our website, the when you click on a on a click or tap on a song, on a song in the chart, I just feel like that should go to an app.

1:07:33 And I don't know how well I don't know how to do that in a in a real way. Adam Curry: Instead of instead of worrying about that. I would just prefer to focus LM beads great out of the gate. I tell people all the time on booster grand ball go to M and beach.com you can see everything there. I try not to and I know I'm contradicting myself because I use the URL podcast index dot top. I don't even know if anyone's going there or not. I would much more I would prefer to not do anything and just help. We're not a destination. We're just not we're not a destination for podcast. We're not a destination for for anything. And we haven't really positioned ourselves. So the fact that is there to me is just part of our development. And what we want to encourage in us like people said, Hey, you can get V for V Music dot music and like, what am I going to do with that? I don't want to be V for view V dot music, you can get music index Doc, I don't want to be that. I want the apps in the service. That's what I want that to be not us. Because before you know, and we have to do takedown requests, and God knows what else I don't want any part of any part Dave Jones: of that. We build things that help other people build things that people use.

1:08:55 Adam Curry: Now there's a bumper sticker podcast index, we build things that help other people do things. They what what was Dave Jones: that this bumper stickers are too big strapping around, this Adam Curry: is a T shirt, podcast index, we build things that other people use to build things that are cool that we like, Dave Jones: okay, something like yes, yes, something like that. It's a Adam Curry: so for me, it was just it was an interesting experiment to set this up. And we're not done yet. Because there's still development, it gives us a place to look and to feel okay, now we've identified some things like this top 100. Okay, it's the top 200. Now, we're not quite sure what to do with it. Dave Jones: Now we're not stopping at 200 we're blowing the lid off. He could keep on going.

1:09:37 Adam Curry: I mean, the easy thing to do is tighten up seven days to five days, see what happens stuff will fall off quicker. But again, for me this this is development. This is not a product, the product, you know, the product needs to be built by the apps. And so we're just offering this and you know, and please do with it what you can I mean, hosting companies should be ingest In this hey, here's a whole bunch of songs you can see how popular they are. Play them in your podcast with the with the wallet switching technology. Dave Jones: Oh, Steven bass says sin the top 100 to the link in the feed. That's opposite Yeah, that's an option to the one to the link in the feed. You know how you can you can you can use the link element and the RSS to link to your own, you know, to the homepage of the episode so to speak.

1:10:29 Adam Curry: Again, I don't think we should spend another minute on on the on the web page other than just what it is now. So we can just look at as developed as a development. Like a console. Dave Jones: Here, maybe this? Yeah. Adam Curry: Yeah. I mean, all this all these ideas, build it in your apps people. Built How about this build an app Dave Jones: where we still don't have a name. We have PW A's. We have we have Ellen Bates and pod fans. Adam Curry: Yeah, well, I have Ellen beats I have Ellen beats as a PWA on my Windows desktop. It's beautiful.

1:11:14 Dave Jones: Though I did do that put it I have it on my bun icon right there on Adam Curry: the desktop. Me and I go into CNC Oh, but here's I use all kinds of new new radio shows. I got the Black Cat music. I see I've been relegated to the bottom. Thanks, Steven B booster grand ball all the way to the bottom. Want. Wow. Let's see the top 100 100 the top 100 Is is all is indeed it's also 192 Ellen beats.com. But that's yeah, that's it. That's a sexy kind of thing. I mean, that's, that's where I think it needs to be. And Stephen has nice little play buttons and and you set up your your wallet so that you can stream or I think I have it set up after you play the song I send 1000 SATs. Now, what is this little feedback? But oh, that's a loop button. As well here wallet. Here we go. Yeah. So we need more of those.

1:12:11 Dave Jones: Okay, I have an idea of how to fix this. And I know exactly what to do to fix this or should fix our count and to fix our count problem. I just figured it out. Okay. I'm just gonna do it. And then we'll talk about it. Okay, good surprise. Yeah, like, Adam Curry: like Christmas and, and a wave like, they've now become a destination. I think that's a shame. You know, we're the only this indication out is, is really at this point to us. And then people get it from us. And I think I have high hopes for pod fans. You know, to start creating communities around the artist, Dave Jones: basically building an app though.

1:12:55 Adam Curry: The app they have? Dave Jones: Yeah, like they're they're an app. Yeah. I mean, they're an app. And a host to him is sort of like dystopia. dystopia is that way too. They're an app and a host? Adam Curry: Well, that there's I mean, if if you're gonna be an app, then you're missing a lot of features. Dave Jones: Yeah, I think they're, I think they're just turning the corner because you know, they had to pivot. That's, that's the wrong way to say it's not pivot. That's not what I mean. But like, they started, they started with one idea. And then our, you know, ours, they they moved into RSS, I think they're still trying to catch up with things and, and I think I see their strategy. And, you know, I'm hopeful for what they're doing. I think I think it makes I think it makes some sense for them. And that, and I just don't I want, I just wrote careful about us becoming an accidental destination. In Adam Curry: biometrics. We've known with you. That's why I'm like, don't let's not do spend another second on that page.

1:14:02 Yeah, no, it is what it is. And I just want to encourage app developers to ingest the data, do something creative with it, give us ideas, what endpoints Do you want? What do you need? Now, sift and shift and do whatever, to have this make sift and shift and gets a show title? To have, you know, to make it make sense out of it. I mean, it's, I think we all fall into this very easily, ourselves included without even thinking about it. We are. This is like going back to the very early days. You guys need to market podcasting to point out no, we suck. We're not going to do that. We're not we're not going to market we're not going to build an app. We're not going to build the destination. We actually tried it and we could never like it.

1:14:55 We know here's your three paths. No, no, it's all there and Anybody can do this. I would love nothing more than someone else to come up with the definitive podcasting 2.0 homepage. You know, here's what you do. Or here's what you here's where you go. You know, that's good. We have a we're a technology club Dave Jones: is the No. Yes. It's that thing where the thing that other people use to do the thing? Yeah, free. Yes, free. I think so. On another see. The other issue here is a DJ shows.

1:15:41 I don't know what to call these things. I call it like Mr. Graham ball. What do you call it? Adam Curry: I call it a value for value music podcast. Dave Jones: Okay. So value value music podcasts. They need their own chart. Right? Because you want to discover those two. Adam Curry: Okay, well, you know, this, this is okay. This is what I've been crying for. And I think it's probably already all there. Maybe it's not, but I would Okay, so how about Elon beats? I'm just going to use LNBs because this This is Steven B is making apps. He makes a million apps a second.

1:16:25 While he's wiring up apartment buildings. I don't understand it. Yet. He has a family. I think that they haven't divorced him yet. Dave Jones: It's a fake family. Adam Curry: It's not really it's like he's in he's in the HOV lane with blowup dolls. It's not really that doesn't really so I would Ellen beats here's what I would love to see an LNB I click I play a song and they're only open let me just open up Ellen beats and read now. Okay, the PWA which works great. Okay, so now I go to Kurdish drums and there's call me medley Okay, wow that's so so sexy responsive. So here I have the album art I've got share of God I can heart that I can boost it and it should say as heard on Instagram bone that data is out there and then and then you should be able to click on booster grand ball and and there I should be able to see what other songs that that episode of booster gram ball has played all this data is there Dave Jones: is there where do you where it where is Okay, so where is there okay, Adam Curry: so it was so Kurt however we figure out booster Graham ball played Call me medley on these episodes or maybe just says as played on boosted grandpa I click on that and it says played in these episodes. It click on that. And

1:17:57 it says other songs played in this episode, which is all available from the feed from the remote items. Now Now you've got discovery, Dave Jones: you're talking about in Elon, this would be in the Elon base or such or or pod Adam Curry: verse or found in or wherever. And then and then and now. You're not only discovering music, you're discovering other podcasts. Dave Jones: That how does he get that information from the feed? Oh, Adam Curry: remote items. Remote item magic wallets switching technology. Dave Jones: Yes. So he's getting so he's going to be scanning.

1:18:41 Okay, because I was thinking that this was stuff that we would have to provide. In your in your you're saying this is already in the feed so he can they the apps can just look at these feeds. I would hope they can make the Ha ha ha. Adam Curry: Okay, explain how we do it now because I just made that up and you're like, Aha, so I figured this is usually how it goes, Hey, David got this great idea. Like, well, I can make that work. I'll build I'd be back tomorrow. But now we have to let other people do that. Dave Jones: You left out a step. I usually like no, you can't do that. Yeah, well, we can do that. Adam Curry: I actually had a dream the other night, because you said to me on the last show, when we're done with all this when it come back to s OPML. And I had a dream about it, man. It was That was weird. It was weird. And we will come back. I know we're gonna we're gonna be like, I'd be like with my walker. Hey, hey, so PML do still have freedom controller things to Dave Jones: work. It'll still be running 10 years from now. It will.

1:19:42 Adam Curry: Alright, so explain how we do that. So you understand what I'm saying? Yes, Dave Jones: I understand what you're saying. And so all so the dead the data for the time. Basically, they absolutely do what we do to build the chart. It would just be return, you know, rube back back out of the data. And so we, because it's a big time, well, Adam Curry: let me ask you this in the can we make an endpoint available that if an app says, Nate, Jonathan, time 169 boosts?

1:20:24 Can you now figure out from that? What shows boosted it? Can we do we provide that data? Is that something we can easily provide? Should we be providing it? Dave Jones: All? I don't know the answer to any of that. I know the answer to some of those questions. Not all that should we provide it had no idea. I mean, do can can we provide a yes. But with a lot of work book. So here's the issue. So there's, back in the background of of podcasting index in the back office, you have the API, which consists of the database and the front end server web servers that that accept the HD HD API request. Then you have a separate server called PI Powell P IP, a URL that is the server name, and it pulls the podcast index, lightning node, once a minute to get an info, pulls all Yeah, pulls in all of the all of the l&d transactions, parses out the TLVs sticks them in a date in its own database. Now, that was only meant for Cluj. I wouldn't,

1:21:55 I would normally fess up and immediately say yes, if you ever if you ever accused me of a Cluj, I normally cop to that immediately. In this circumstance, I will say that this actually not a Cluj. Okay. This was because the intent of the pipe house server was only for it was for two things it was for our internal accounting, so we could report done boot like lightning donations to the IRS. And so that we could do so we could store them all to be able to pull boosts out to read on the show. So it was basically just a internal accounting system for us. Right, and immediate. So then, then we, of course, as normal as all these things do, it began to do more than what it was, it became Adam Curry: an important production item.

1:22:57 Dave Jones: Yes, exactly. And so now what happened was, what happened was, this thing grew, and now it hosts it's generating the chart because it's got all the l&d data, Adam Curry: right, right. This is clearly not a great way to do what we're talking about through TLVs. Dave Jones: So if we were to make the we can't easily make this available in APR, because it's not even the date. It's not even in the main database, it's in a whole other different database. No, I understand this back to the main database in order to be able to even serve it, you know, okay, Adam Curry: so Stephen B, posted something in the chat. And by the way, after the show, Alex gates will figure it all out and tell us what to do. But now he's yelling Dave Jones: at us.

1:23:45 Adam Curry: He's going live is going live, so you can pitch in her head about it. So Steven B says, Can the API return feeds that have a specific route remote item in it? And I'm sure the answer right now is no. But is that is that something because I know that in order to help apps like cast ematic, we discussed storing the remote item data? Is that something that will be possible? Or is that like a huge lookup that that we're not qualified to do or big enough to do? Dave Jones: No. But yes.

1:24:26 Adam Curry: Okay. And that concludes our broadcast. Dave Jones: Now, not at the moment, but in but definitely is definitely in on the roadmap because we remote item. I was just about to put remote item support into the API. And then and then we halted into the chart. So Adam Curry: well, this is good because this is this is how we come this is our iteration. Okay. But can I just step back for one second, get our heads out of the technology, and explain why I think this is important. Because I'm sure that I'm sure there are people yelling at like, how come we're not talking about the pinning episodes tag?

1:25:10 Dave Jones: Yeah, I know what we're not talking about that. But yes. Adam Curry: This is the opportunity we have here as a group. To create an entire we've already started, we've created a new category of podcast, which for almost 20 years has not existed. We are igniting, artists are on fire. They're igniting and they're very, very, very excited. I know this, because this is this is what I do. I feel what's happening. I feel what people are sending me. The excitement is there. People are curious what's happening, the stuff going on. There's, there's a new kid in town. And that new kid has one leg and three fingers. And that's us. And, and we're trying to figure this out. But the beauty, the beauty of turning what we're talking about here into a discovery mechanism. And by the way, it doesn't just have to be V for V music podcast. I mean, think about someone hearing a J dog song, or seeing a J dog song and saying, Hey, I liked this and then winding up with at podcasting. 2.0 Because we played J dog. That's, that's real discovery. So, you know, I totally imagine, you know, if you listen to the radio, people play a song. Even NPR, you know,

1:26:46 it's like, we're gonna play a song. It's not like all top 40 Adam curry booster Grand Ball stuff. Tina, and I would like to play a song that in our show, but just a song. And let's say let's say that's, you know, bend orful. And someone hears that. It's like, Oh, what, what what other podcast or it's a connector. We can connect podcasts. And even people at a certain point to each other, and artists to each other through this mechanism. And the category. I am going to, I said this a couple shows, I'm going to supercharge the hosting business. If people will be banging a path to your door, to be able to play music in their podcast to be able to have music that can be played in podcasts. It's something that has never it's like it's blue sky. It's completely open. And we can do it. No one else can do this. And the and the content is there.

1:27:54 And so we will grow podcasting with leaps and bounds by figuring this out. Dave Jones: In Okay, let me drive it back. And let me let me drive it back into tech for a sec, please. We read? I don't think we have the time for this on on this. In this board meeting, but I think Adam Curry: we need an office. We need an off site Dave Jones: with pastries Adam Curry: and a barbecue. Yes. And barbecue. Yes. Dave Jones: And we'll bring in a motivational speaker. The next in the next board meeting 100%. Andriy we need to discuss categories. Yes. Because that is that that go that maps that map you're right. I'm with you. I'm with you. But But it's even.

1:28:56 It's more than that though. Because I'm still banging my head against the wall of this of this issue. And if people may think it may sound myopic to be focusing this, like we're focusing a lot on music. Oh, now like right in it a lot recently in the in the boardroom. But the issue is, all of these things when you when you it goes back to what you just said. The this is a new category of of of PA podcast, which is never been, it's never been possible to. It has never been possible to define a new category of podcasts because of the medium tag because of Alex's medium tag made that possible. Now we have the ability to define, we have the language and the skin in the schema to define a new a new Literally a new type of content writing on top of the podcast delivery network. And so the all of these things that we're discussing about, here's a problem. And we need to fix this in music. Here's all of these things. Right now we're discussing them within the framework of the music medium, right? They will map all of the same issues will have to be sorted out for every other type

1:30:27 of medium that we go down. So this is a this is this is an easy, Adam Curry: it's an easy way to start figuring out the the plumbing, so that it maps to books, movies, yes. Documentaries, porn. Oops, that I say that. Dave Jones: In blogs, blogs, yeah. That's what you meant to say. The Adam Curry: end. Yeah, what comes into play? So PML? Before you know it, Dave Jones: and we're right back to you know, so this is a, this is a length, this is a language and syntax for a new for a new defined content. And if right now, it's within the framework of music. But this is just, this is a mad laboratory, right? For all the things that come next. And, you know, so that's a long way around to say, what is bothering me is the fact that we can't define booster Graham ball in a way that I can find it in the index. Because what I want to do, what I want to be able to do is to say is to find a list of all of all value for value music podcasts. The thing I want, because I know what they are. I know, I know, it's Mr. Graham ball. It's a mood, lightning thrashes power was the power of music hour. Like, I

1:32:04 know the list. But there's no I can't tell the index to give me the list or or an app to give me the list. Adam Curry: Okay, can I give it it? Kind of give it a try? Sure. You can find booster Graham ball by saying podcast that has remote items. That equal medium medium equals music. Dave Jones: Which will also bring back this show. Yes. But this is not a this is not a this show and booster Graham ball are just fundamentally different types of shows. And I don't like that I'm sorry, con January homegrown hits. That's an it's no. So Adam Curry: hey, man, talk about my show.

1:32:57 Dave Jones: Give me props. The so. And we've we've mentioned possibly another music medium, but I don't want to clog those words up another medium Excuse me, but I don't know if that's appropriate. It may be the combination, what what may solve this problem is the combination of of a medium, and a category brought together. I don't know right. So like if we define a radio medium, which is which has been proposed, Alex proposed that if we define the radio, radio medium, or showcase or whatever you can call it if we define that medium, and then we bring in because we get Alright, I think I'm figuring this out as we go. So when you what things are changes based on the medium.

1:33:53 So if the medium is and we know this if that the medium is podcast, then the transcript is a transcript of the words that are spoken on the show, right? If the medium is music, the transcript is now lyrics. We know that these things change based on the medium, the medium controls, it drives the what the other things downstream from it mean. So within music, categories become genres. And so in there could be a way in which Adam Curry: so for instance, if I can just invite in a medium he calls music interview show.

1:34:34 Dave Jones: Uh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Or, or medium equals right and medium equals radio, music. A category. So it's a radio show. It's a music radio show. Adam Curry: Yeah, I don't like that. But it doesn't matter. I understand what you're saying. Dave Jones: You get the gist. Yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. I mean that. So I think I think I think we got to have the category discussion this this, this may be the next, the next bacon. Adam Curry: Is this a GitHub issue that we open to take submissions? Or is this something that, that we just go all Idi Amin and just create it tell your buddy to shut up?

1:35:21 Dave Jones: No, do not do the Israeli Israeli method of Adam Curry: Mossad medium? Dave Jones: Yes, no, this is not the right way to do this. So there there are category discussions that have been long, long buried in the GitHub that needs to be resurrected, so that we can start afresh. Okay, that I think I think that's where we have to travel next. Adam Curry: Well, then, let's travel there, let's let's not even do anything else. Because it seems like we need that. Before we can get to this this discovery journey that I'm talking about. Is that correct?

1:36:03 Dave Jones: It's already be Yeah, I think so. Because it's already becoming an issue because see, because I guess ESP is like, I don't listen to that crap. I just listened to challenge for trans trans. And so I can't listen to value for a minute. There's probably some had some trans out there, but he can't find it because we don't have categories that allow for that. Adam Curry: Right. Well, that's very specific. I mean, a Dave Jones: lot of people are like, I don't listen to anything. But Adam Curry: no, I know. I know. I'm just saying that now you're going into, because I may play a trend song. You may. And I would like CSB to be able to find the episode where I play a transformer. How's that sound? Yeah. Yeah, my head hurt.

1:36:57 Dave Jones: Yes, this is it's 943 at night, we know who was too intense. Let's Adam Curry: thank some people. So we thank some people, because we've done a lot. We've done a lot today. And we look in this special board meeting and we are the only board meeting that operates out of office hours. I want everyone to be be aware of that. And we appreciate everyone showing up nice showing we have a quorum. I've been to many board meetings. It's clear. Here we go. Couple of booster grabs that came in while we're doing the show live sir Libra 33,333 Great to hear the opening of lightning thrashes on the last Episode Episode Four is out now featuring Dame Jennifer tell all your friends lightning thrashes.com as an ad Dave Jones: I just got it I just got that drop in the podcast app.

1:37:45 Adam Curry: Oh, you did oh cued up. Oh, I'm Dave Jones: gonna have to listen to behind I haven't even listened to lightning so it's just three yet. So you've already got four Adam Curry: row of ducks from the mere mortals podcast with duck emojis no less, which is nice. I'll make a pitch for V for V come check out the value for value show. Another add another 2222 for mere mortals podcast live boosting for early episodes. Let's make this a thing. Think of the hashtag think of the Australians oh it's probably because it's a different he's like Hey, I could find it listen to it live I got a time shifting this Right. Eric p p 33,333. Thank you brother. I can find all this in live there he is. That must have been a coyote although it didn't doesn't say Kira and came in on pod verse row of ducks 2222 There Steven B 15,002. Davi das booster grant perhaps the church or band could use so I love this. We got people boosting so we got dove out just do this in sequence. dovie does 15,000 sets but I'll remind you what he said talk to a church that does a prayer podcast even V for V is difficult because you need to ask for value which may ruin the experience similar to RSS music. We need ways to ask for value outside the episodes themselves. Stephen B replies love this 50 1000s at Adobe das Bookstagram perhaps the church or band could use chapters to request value for value replace the art with a really cool chapter are requesting a boost of support. But we don't use we don't use that enough. Chapter says a lot of cool stuff you can do with chapters. Dred Scott,

1:39:19 he's up and about 123456 He says a little boost MC boost Musa MC boost for y'all boost boost boost boost. 20 is Blaze on am Dave Jones: seven is only 745 in California. Adam Curry: And that's what we got. We got another Dred Scott 1234 who might have been testing thank you all for those Bucha we should we go through our booster grams while we're at it so we can. Yeah, you have the this. I'll just remind everybody this is a value for value podcast. This is where in our church here, we asked you to support us. We do we're not bashful at all.

1:40:00 Dave Jones: Tom tell and treasured just exactly lucky to hear from the pulpit. Adam Curry: Exactly. That's right, exactly Dave Jones: what I want to say that I have not had time to look to dig into So Sam Sethi has been boosting us from pod fans, Adam Curry: and we still are still not showing up in my helipad. So it's Dave Jones: not showing us I have to figure out what is going on. So I gotta dig those up. They may come through in the boosts, Adam Curry: maybe they come through the streams, Dave Jones: they may come, they may come through in the boost, I'm going to read in a minute, but if they don't, I just want to add not forgotten, Sam, I will, I'm going to find that I'm going to tell Adam Curry: you what it is, though. I'm gonna tell you what it is what he's doing what he's doing. He's either putting booster grommets that have boost, or he's putting boost with a capital B, somehow I have a feeling that that's why it's not showing up in helipad. Is that even possible? What I'm saying here?

1:40:53 Dave Jones: It's, it's very possible. So I know why it's not working in hell Upad is because we haven't made the adjustment to it. This is a good time to say thank you very much to Harry EPS. Indeed, he has done the Lord's work but on Eric on Hello pad. But by no heat. So he he's been adding features to it. While I've been tied up with lots of other things, and he's getting really good at that with that code base. But the thing he did the other day, which is very helpful, is he made a GitHub action that will automatically compile, compile hella pad.

1:41:38 It'll cross compile it for different architectures for ARM 64 and four for x 64. And push it so when whenever somebody comes, whenever somebody commits to the main branch in helipad, it now automatically builds a Docker image and pushes it to Docker hub so that you can pull down and have the latest code immediately. Nice. Yeah, and that's we tested it out the other day works perfectly. Cuz this is I just really appreciate what he's doing. Very big deal. Let's see we got Buzzsprout $500.

1:42:23 Adam Curry: Well, right off the bat. 20 on I am Paula, thank you. Thank you. Thank you Dave Jones: came in after hours on a special courier for the just in time for the show. Let's see. Thank you guys, Kevin and Tom. Appreciate that very much. Boosts. Mr. Graham's we got three C 333. Sets from Gene Everett says live boost tests. We got you. We got your gene. Yep, sure do. Let's see. Okay, so here's here's pod fans. Here's Sam listening so we may Okay, so this may be coming through so what I did was I made the adjustments to their TLVs on our on the PI pal server so that we could do it right so we just need to make that'll Adam Curry: work and heli inhaler pad Yeah.

1:43:15 Dave Jones: Sir truck driver gave us 3333 through founding says first time list. Also new to boosting. Enjoy. And thank you for your courage in the morning. Adam Curry: Go podcast. Just I just did. By accident. I hit that button. It works. It works. Dave Jones: See, that's me go through here yet. Here's some more pod fans. So I am having to sort of vet these in real time. Because in order to figure out the pod fans thing, I turned a basically it's not doing any filtering. It's just giving me the whole shebang. So there's a lot I got you through that normally wouldn't be coming through so I got to run through this in real time. Let's see. Do Adam Curry: I sing a little song playing Dave Jones: booster Graham's. See? Oh, love that Mandelbrot track. Thank you for your courage. That's from future.

1:44:10 Future, sir. Tosh. Oh, you found thank you for you. Sir Tashi sent us 167 SATs out of 3333 They went to Mandalay went to Bandolero gene bein 111 out of tu tu tu tu through cast ematic and that went to ies Yeah, that's Adam Curry: awesome. Oh man. No, bro. Dave Jones: This is a really it's really cool. I seeing all the TLVs come together because you can see what portion went to us. It's like it'll say this of this, you know, like 111 out of two to two nice. Adam Curry: Yeah, I mean, I'm in the new help and the new Hello Pat. I'm seeing some of that but also I mean so what I'm seeing now for instance, from a fountain I'm seeing booster Graham ball episode nine and then in For ends when it's over.

1:45:01 So that was the track and that can click on the on the timestamp and then I get the whole TLV record opens right up, which is kind of cool. Dave Jones: That is, yeah that. See? 2022 chyron for mere mortals podcast, they found he says, I pay a fixed cost for blueberry. And they also take a 3% split. I'm totally fine with that. As for Mordovia Das, Adam Curry: yeah. You'd be you'd be amazed. You'd be amazed when you think people won't pay for something. If it's valuable and you kind of leave that open. They do. Dave Jones: Limit creations as our buddy Andy layman, sent us 1000 SATs to cast magic he says, I asked blueberry about see names for podcasts mirror and they don't do it. But that would be awesome. Oh, they made pictures on the roadmap, then.

1:45:47 Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm thinking they should I mean, that's kind of Todd think a drone.com. Dave Jones: Yes, right. Lehmann, Andy comes in again with another 1000 SAS he says someone should create a V for V music play out system that hooks into all the music sites and automatically creates a debate automatically creates value time splits and has the ramp time so you can hit the post that would be awesome. Yeah, what is ramped time I don't assume. Adam Curry: So that's that's a term so in in my am errorless, which is my playout system. I can you know I can I can literally set a little a little yellow line that's where the the vocal start. And so the minute I hit play it the two counters start to run one is the total time left and one is the number of seconds left until that ramp is done. And then you hit the post as we call it, which means the vocal start or some accent in the music where you want to where you want to dump out that's very advanced and we'll get there one day Dave Jones: so that's something you mark you mark that time Yeah, yeah, before you start the intro for the next Yeah, Adam Curry: that's that's a little bit down the road.

1:47:02 Dave Jones: Let's see as far as gates Oh, hey Sir Alex 111 was actually Richard three pot verse he says he's thrown some nostril Hey, so noster is literally just a shitty and unreliable PubSub system. There is no fixing it without adding centralization. This is coming from a system architect who does this for a living my disdain for it comes from this. It will not scale for its intended purpose. Please lower your expectations for future use. At public service announcement, lower your expectations Adam Curry: lower Dave Jones: Thank you Alex as source de 1701 Star Trek booster pod verse he says Adam No. Fee for V is value for value. Don't bring only fans into it.

1:47:46 Adam Curry: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What was I think I know that wasn't that was not smart. Dave Jones: John's BRT. 1667 SATs at a 33 333 That's for a song that I don't that I cannot tell because all I have is good. But I'm sure it was excellent. Tread word 3333 through pod version no note. See that we get some more. There's some more pod fans. Oh, some some quack. Send us through 111 through fountain he says thanks. Well, thanks. Thanks. Do you never it 2222 He says boost boost sir Shauna the Allegheny Valley 1128 SATs the cast ematic no note thank you sir Sean. He's got quite a string of these all different amounts 1009 1065 1010 Adam Curry: Go crazy Wow, he's Dave Jones: killing it thanks for sharing I don't know how much that added up to crazy Nice. Oh Lord F 35 Jump around remix starting at that gas screen nice got a link is a YouTube link I don't know if I can play that. You can't you can't hear my stuff. So it doesn't we got to Adam Curry: fix that. Yeah, we got to fix it. You need to be able to play clips man.

1:48:59 Dave Jones: I'm gonna try I'm gonna try moving it over to rearrange it over to the Mac. When I get a chance. Is we get 1033 alkalis do foul taste is also conversation. David gets your frustration over the BTC bros out there their group they grew tiring and also include that a bunch of debt include that bunch of BTC Maxis as well. Presuming all other coins out there or shit coin is toxic, doing the entire blockchain movement a huge disservice. There are some incredibly underrated projects out there bubbling to the surface that can work alongside not against the Lightning Network. Love the show guys in the morning Adam Curry: in the morning to you Dave Jones: 500 SATs through from amorphous continuum wow that's a name do finally says that sir is amazingly effing useful. Thank you. Oh, you're welcome. See was jumped through here. This is funny. I see so much. I see so much pod fans in here.

1:50:03 Adam Curry: Oh yeah, it was you see all the streams as well? Is that what you're saying? Dave Jones: Yeah, because when I turned out when I turned off the filter to show everything it's just like Adam Curry: you get a lot a lot coming in when because it's all the minute by minute stuff. Dave Jones: And you see but it's all different users it's not just SAM No It's everybody. Yes a Adam Curry: lot of stuff. Dave Jones: You see the you really get a appreciation for the for the usage going on over there. It's great. Okay 333 from anonymous great song and we got did you do Mike Newman boosting the podcasting 2.0 squad from somewhere sometime in the future like this ship, go podcasting Adam Curry: Podcast. I'm sorry what happened? Oh, Dave Jones: that was a striper boost. 77 777 Adam Curry: I'm completely messed up. I see. I should at least do the striper boost. Yeah, here we go I got it. I got it. I got it.

1:51:02 Dave Jones: doubled up. Took me a minute. And we gotta come straight blogger it's 30 3015 to delimiter through fountain he says how do you David Adam, please invite your listeners to visit my blog at www dot CSB dot lol for my cartoons about everything. And to give me ideas for cartoons to draw via Twitter slash x et et CSB. Just three letters C S and B yo, yo yo, yo I'm going that was going for more of a like Twilight Zone. type of presentation there. Adam Curry: Imagine the world Dave Jones: what was his name?

1:51:47 Adam Curry: The rod Sterling, Rod Sterling and man not bad for 958 Sterling or Sterling? Could be certainly could be Sterling Sterling and whatever. Dave Jones: And we got some monthlies. We got Jordan Dunnville $10 Thank you, Jordan Cameron Rose $25 Cameron been around a long time. Thank you, man. Jeff's got $15 Michael Kimmer $5.33 a magic number and Pedro Goncalves, $5. Thank you guys. Adam Curry: Thank you all so much value for value is the name of the game. It's what we play. It's how we keep everything running for this podcast for the boardroom. But of course for all the servers. You keep everything running, keeping it available for all in the podcasting 2.0 Community podcast. index.org at the bottom two red buttons up you know what, I should probably check the tally coin. You know, that's probably where dribs God's been hanging out. One of them is for your pay, pal.

1:52:41 That's your Fiat fun coupons. Or you can go to Ha ha didn't add it. Okay, good. Or you can go to the other one for an unchained donation which people begged us for and the only person doing it is Dred Scott. What we really want you to do those, go to podcast apps.com. Get a brand new modern podcast app and boost us give us a boost to Graham so we know what's going on what's on your mind. So you can respond to other people. So beautiful system. Thank you all so much. Especially our our hosting companies who are always really really generous. We'd appreciate it. Thank you so much. But But nothing is is unappreciated. We'd love it all. For sure. All right, so we have homework and homework as we all think about categories. And I guess we're gonna resurrect something on the GitHub, and try it.

1:53:31 Dave Jones: I'm gonna go I'm gonna go digging. Yes. Okay. Find the answer. It's 10 o'clock. I think we I think we nailed Adam Curry: it. Thank you chat room. We really, really know tallyho from each night says Dr. John. Okay. Dr. It's okay. It's fine. Go to sleep. Thank you all very much for for being here for this special board meeting. We will not be releasing it. So until tomorrow. So if you are here, then you got you got an early no one else gets it. And we'll release it tomorrow. I'll release it before I leave. So it will be tomorrow morning. And Have yourselves a great weekend. Dave. Brother. Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate you changing your schedule for this as well. Dave Jones: Yeah, man. Absolutely. I have a safe trip to Houston. Hope it I hope you have a good time. I expect to expect a full report.

1:54:14 Adam Curry: Full Report. Yes. Right. We'll have it in the in the meeting minutes. Yes, indeed. Hi, everybody. Thank you very much for being here for the board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 We'll be back next Friday. And we'll do it all over again. Unknown: You hope You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.com For more information in the socket baby