Episode 147: Like Lavender

0:00 Adam Curry: podcasting two point over September 22 2023, episode 147 We're like lavender Oh yeah. Hello everybody, welcome once again to podcasting 2.0 Your Friday afternoon deadlights we are the only boardroom that cannot be de platformed and it is here that we discussed the future of podcasting, podcasting that is now everything going on a podcast index.org a namespace and of course all the happenings of podcasts index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. He streams he screams he's the man of your dreams ladies and gentlemen say hello to my friend now on the other end the Wonderlic Mr. Dave Jones Dave Jones: it's always a race to get that last bite of food swallow for you and into the intro. Say my name because I'm like I'm like chewing like a furious maniac Adam Curry: you know, we could we could always just wait until you're you know until you're done and then you know then start the show is really not a problem.

0:58 Dave Jones: By the way I get down to it. We get we gotta we gotta move. Adam Curry: We got got stuff to do baby got stuff to handle. And we got a guest today as well. So there's lots going on here the podcast and 2.0 show. And crazy enough. When it rains it pours. You brought clips and I brought clips. No, we both brought the clips. No, no, we did not bring the same clips. And today, I'm going to step aside and say, Dave, first of all, how you doing? I doing, brother? Dave Jones: I'm good. Yeah, what Adam Curry: you've been working on even working on anything. Dave Jones: That wasn't on a roast beef sandwich. For the last 12 minutes. Adam Curry: How's the office? Is the office okay, everything good with the office? The office is fine. Yeah, not too bad. Oh, good.

1:45 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. We everything's going good. I was very grumpy last week. Adam Curry: What during the show? Well, no, I thought I thought I thought I brought you I thought I lifted you up a little bit near near the end there. Dave Jones: Yeah, this is a much better. This is like back to normal baseline Dave, this week. I'm feeling good. A figure, you know, figured out what my issue was last week. The the enemy had invaded and thrown a smoke bomb on me. That's exactly what it was. Adam Curry: When you started wishing gonorrhea on people I knew something was off. This is not this is not mobile, not to Dave Jones. And by the way, the AI transcription service got caught it it spelled gonorrhea correctly. Was very Dave Jones: lazy it can it can it spelled gonorrhea. But it can't spell Johnson.

2:38 Adam Curry: No matter how many times I correct it. It's aI it's great. It's exactly what oh, man so my have a start nine pro here in the in the shack. Dave Jones: Is this the start nine that won't run helipad, because I haven't done my thing. No, no, Adam Curry: no, it's run Hello, Pat. I just couldn't upgrade. And in fact, Aaron, PP cut me a new I guess there's an APK. I think, oddly enough, he caught me he caught me a new whatever it is. And so I upgraded so I'm now on to a new whatever it new whatever it is, and it upgraded I actually had to had to delete the old upgrade path. That part doesn't work. So I had to delete and then side load it and works perfectly. In fact, I've am trans it's so stable. The Start nine as a Bitcoin node as a lightning node. I'm transitioning everything away from the surface laptop that has kind of been the, you know, my node for forever, which does from time to time, just kind of freeze up and do weird stuff.

3:41 Dave Jones: As as as one has as an umbrella. Yes, as the surface lineup is known to do Adam Curry: yes, as the combo surface umbrellas. It's just not a good combo. Really. That's a terrible, you know, and then if it freezes, and it comes back up, and you have a new logical drive, and you have to remove Docker containers, and you know, it's a whole pain in the butt. So the start nine is beautiful. I mean, you know, some you can throw it against the wall just rebooted. It's kind of Mac like in that way just works. And they released that chat GPT and defusion for the start OS. So I've been playing me a screenshot of this. Yeah. So I played around, I think it's eight or nine different models.

4:25 They have LLM 's and I've been messing around with it. And it's I mean compared to the Umbral, it's super fast, I mean, it's fast. And you can you can load the I think pretty big like this, this there's one seven gigabyte model, I think which will take a little longer to get a response. And in general, it's pathetic. I mean, all the stuff I've done with it does scripture really well if you're looking for scripture that you know? There's so much the scriptures kind of open source you know, it's like it's been around for a while. So There's a there's a lot of stuff oh, gee boss, it really is. So there's, there's a lot of text available. And that in the context of that is quite good. So I was looking for something and boom, it'll, it'll bring it right up. It's it's actually quite, quite good at that. But everything else, you know, don't use it as some kind of knowledge engine, you know, if you want it, you know, like, who was Adam curry? You know, before you know what I went to the college de Weiner went to I mean, it's so stupid.

5:31 Dave Jones: It makes so much sense. Yeah, Adam Curry: yeah, it's just but I guess for writing, you know, some things it's used. But anyway, it's just, it's, I'm really blown away by the, by the robustness of the Start OS. But then, of course, particularly, the start nine pro because it's, I think it's the purism hardware, as good, it's just solid, I'm just making me very, very happy. It runs all his run runs everything. Well. Dave Jones: So the LLM is run. It's, you're saying it's passable? Like it can get the job done in a pinch? Like it's not going to beat you? Because it's not, it's clearly not GPU accelerated? No, Adam Curry: no, but it's all it's not slow. It's not slow at all. It's not as fast as GPT three, you know, the chat dot open ai.whatever.or, that that goes faster. But result wise, it's, it's the same, I mean, it will give me the same bad results.

6:32 Dave Jones: Just a little bit without much waiting. Yeah, just Adam Curry: a little slower, just a little bit slower. There's not too much of a problem. Dave Jones: A buddy of mine runs a has a decent graphics card of his, you know, $500 graphics card. And which is not unreasonable in that market. I mean, that's that's pretty normal run of the mill. But anyway, he he has that it's got a think 16 gigs of RAM on his onboard on the card. And that is enough to just run pretty much any LLM out there. And the cool thing of what he showed me is like, when it comes to the one thing LLS can do, and this makes a lot of sense, because I think they can do code programming better than they can natural language. Because natural language has lots of nuance.

7:26 Adam Curry: Oh, you know, and yes, you know, yes, it does. It does scripting very well. You know, I've done some shell scripts. Oh, very by the way, it's the it's the pure not the Pro to start nine server pure. That's the one that it is. Yeah. Oh, you're scripting it does. phenom. I mean, I've run a couple of scripts, just simple. By just I'm just looking for a shell script into something very easy because I can I can look at a shell script and go, Oh, I get it. And those work. Those work fine. And pretty quickly. Dave Jones: It's so good that for us. So like one of the this this sort of is not a secret project. But it's just one of these things I'm working on that I was going to talk to you about later. Is it required? So do you remember limit?

8:11 Adam Curry: Is this where we say in the board meeting? Yeah, we'll talk about that offline. Dave Jones: Oh, Lord, no. Yeah, pretty. I don't we really don't have any. Really, Adam Curry: we don't even talk at all. This is this is this is our weekly chat. That's true. Dave Jones: But the I mean, I go ahead to bed, so I will paste me. Let me just paste this into the chat into this even into the chat chat into the IRC Adam Curry: or Oh, okay. All right. Do not execute whatever code Dave is about to paste everybody do not execute it. Whatever's going on, do not execute. Just go Dave Jones: ahead and pipe it to bash it'll be fun. Okay, let's see if this is gonna see if this is fun, because it may crash thing.

8:58 Adam Curry: So this is AI code that you've Dave Jones: ran on is not a no. Adam Curry: This is Oh, do you see that? When I see that? Yeah, let me hit that. I'm gonna hit let me let me hit that. Hit it Radio dot book. I'm not gonna mention the URL. Let me see. Yeah, okay, because it's not coming up yet. Dave Jones: Not coming up. Adam Curry: Should it be an HTTPS? Is it Dave Jones: No, it should not be HTTPS. Adam Curry: Well, that shouldn't it's not coming up here from me. Dave Jones: Hmm, let's see if it comes up for me. I may have just given everybody a false hope. Adam Curry: Thanks. See, I got can't be reached.

9:39 Dave Jones: You need to do to Adam Curry: does this. Does this as port 8000 That's the idea here. Dave Jones: Huh? Well, that's not that's not working. Well, what I was Adam Curry: saying Thanks for Thanks for nothing. Is a real downer. Now like what were you working on? On one stream some kind of stream of some some sorts. Oh Dave Jones: Mita says he's here in something. Okay. But it's evidently not working for some people and some Adam Curry: people it is work. Could there be a block here? I see. Dave Jones: Like, I've noticed this some browsers just God, they do not want to do HTTP like, Oh, no kidding.

10:21 Adam Curry: No kidding. Let me try this browser. I got another browser here. Well, if metus could hear it, then something's working. Dave Jones: Or what actually worked pretty well. Oh, here we Adam Curry: go. That whatever that is. You got it. Yeah, I use the I use my Tor Browser. Funny enough. Dave Jones: Okay, so what this is, Adam Curry: let me guess. Is this the top 100 Playing in real time? Dave Jones: It is not the top 100. Okay. It is. Oh, is a Adam Curry: combo of all the music podcasts? Yes. I love it. I love it. Dave Jones: It's basically value for value radio. So all if you have a DJ show, the other music show. Yeah, it'll show up here.

11:08 It will be it will begin to play through this ice cast server. Adam Curry: Now how do I how do I send boost to it? Dave Jones: That's That's why That's why That's why Adam Curry: it's a test. Yeah. Okay, Dave Jones: so here, here's the here's the here's the deal. So Jen, Jason, over what's his? What's his buddy's name that that works on podcasts. Get Ready With Unknown: almost breaking the chains of music tear Dave Jones: dressers? That's Adam Curry: nice. Okay. All right, Jason. Jason, what Dave Jones: is it? Jason? I can't remember his name. Alex.

11:50 Maybe? over it. Podcast podcast. Yeah. Yeah. So they want to support live that your time splits? You know? Yeah. And we don't. So Steven B created that live the way he's doing it now. Is he's doing it with a lot with a socket, the web socket io WebSocket. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not actually web socket. socket.io. Okay, I'm gonna stop and which is a, like a hosted socket. Socket service. So he's, he's, he created that just to facilitate what he was doing. He's like, Okay, we're going to do live we need to some way to signal during the live broadcast. That that, uh, that a split has changed, right. So what are that a song a different song is now a Adam Curry: different a different block is active. Let's put it that way. Yeah, yeah.

12:43 Dave Jones: The wallet squishing technology has activated. Adam Curry: That's catching on that wallet. Switching technology. Everyone's using it. Yeah. WSD Yeah, I love it. It's actually M ws T magic wallet switching technology. Dave Jones: So he, so he brought that he brought that to life. But it's not as it's not documented anywhere. It's not a standard. There's no nobody else knows how to do this. It's just purely a curio casters flip case, but kids Adam Curry: kind of just kind of works in the in that in that environment? Yes, I use it regularly. Dave Jones: It is the nonmagical wallet switching technology. It's basically the hidden the cloaked the clogged wallet itself. So we so I figured this would be a way to if I bring up a 24/7 lady radio stream of all the DJ shows. Yeah. Then we can use that as a as a sandbox in order to hammer down what how we do this. This? Yeah, what socket protocol needs to be okay. So we is oh, so I'll just bring out whatever we decide. I'll bring up a socket next to it. Then we can figure and then I'm going to put a feed on this. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So there'll be you know, it'd be 24/7 value or so you know, whatever the name of the station is and then I'll play it I'll have a fee and then you can play it in all the different podcast apps and then

14:13 we'll have to figure out how to signal the socket protocol. Adam Curry: Wow, this is exactly what I was talking about. Unlike the last booster Graham ball. I said someday in the future. I can envision dot dot dot. I said a 24 hour stream of music shows and youth and here it is. I didn't even ask you this time. You just Dave Jones: didn't even hear you say that. Adam Curry: This is how good we are. This is how good we are day we don't have to talk to each other. Dave Jones: The VA Vulcan mind meld has reached his full maturity. Adam Curry: This is what no agenda stream needs as well. I mean, this this is this to be able to do this on any ice cast server. It would be a huge deal. Huge deal. Dave Jones: Agreed. Agree. Yeah, we need a standard protocol socket protocol for this. If so, you know the first thought I had was it was doing what you said originally was like, just playing all the songs. And I'm like, You know what, but that's not a radio station, the radio station, as DJs has shows exactly as shows, yeah. And then it solidified it when when I heard sir Libra say, on a podcast index dot social that he had not made very much been a boost may not very made very much in boosts. He was disappointed. And he was like, Well, how should I do my marketing? Like, how should I market my my shows we get more people interested in listening?

15:45 I'm like, Okay, well, this is that this is what we need to do. We need to have some sort of stream out there or radio thing where people can listen to these shows. Now, long term. I mean, do we want to host them like this add on? No, it's a set. It's a sandbox. And that kind of stuff can get expensive. But I think at least for a model of how to do it, that this is what it this is what value for value radio would look like, right? Adam Curry: Yeah. Now this is exactly this is what I want. I want to get in my car. I want to just flip on my, my toilet scroller What has my wallet set up and, you know, I've got 200 SATs a minute or whatever. And I just want to continuously be listening and drain my wallet while I'm listening. And I want the websites to go to the DJs I want the staff to go to the artists. That's exactly it.

16:37 Dave Jones: Cool. Okay. Beautiful. Adam Curry: Well done. I love it. I love it. Dave Jones: I gotta get I gotta get the SSL or the TLS stuff figured out. Yeah, like I said, it's not ready for primetime. So I just want to that's why I only put it in the chat because I didn't want to like you know, get a bunch of hammered on the hammers on that URL. Adam Curry: I'm excited. I'm excited. Can I use your ISO? Dave Jones: What I said, Oh, yeah, go for it. Adam Curry: This feels good. Yeah. Look like the perfect ISO to me. Dave Jones: So far. It will always. Yeah, okay. That's what I've been working on. I had to learn icecast and easy stream. Yeah, that's Adam Curry: about it. That's not trivial. It's not trivial. Very nice. They're very nice.

17:20 Dave Jones: I forgot what, oh, I don't remember why I brought this up. I remember now. Okay, so the the point was that Do you remember this little program that I wrote called sucky? Adam Curry: Yes. Yes, I do. Dave Jones: Okay. So it all it does is sucks down you give it a feed URL and it looks it parses the the podcast feed, and then sucks all the enclosures down? So it's just basically an archival Yes, you just give it a feed in at archives. Adam Curry: That was one of your more appropriately named. Scripts sucky? Dave Jones: Yes. Yes, sir. This sucks. Yes. So that's, I was sucky forms the, the, the, the bedrock of the vif value 27 24/7 radio so because it has its it constantly polling feeding Adam Curry: and continuously pulls in the new show?

18:19 Dave Jones: Yes. So you give it the list of feed URLs and then it's just constantly just going in making sure it's up to date and it's got the latest shows and everything and Adam Curry: doesn't doesn't replace so so. So it's playing like booster Grand Ball number eight now, when number nine is available, just automatically swap that out? Or does it keep eight in for a while does it have multiple what is it doing? Dave Jones: Perfectly it's it's the shuffle setting and easy string. Adam Curry: Okay, I love it. It's fantastic. Dave Jones: Yes. So they but as I was looking so sucky has a very, very tiny program like, I don't know, couple 100 lines of code doesn't take much in rock. It does. Actually, you can suck with very few lines, very few lines of code. But the is as I was, as I was looking at this, this is written in rust. And I was I was looking at it I was like, you know, I could have probably written this whole thing with an LLM.

19:23 Adam Curry: Yeah, of course. Dave Jones: Just look at the structure of it. You're like if you just say, give me a rust program to download an HD no a RSS feed a podcast feed in parse it and download each attachment one after another hears about you, which Adam Curry: is what I said write a rush script to download mp3 from a podcast RSS feed. Perfect. We're waiting. It's got three dots. It's going to do well I mean a very Small model actually, I've been the Marx three B. Here we go create an account on a website like Libsyn or Feedburner. That allows you to create an RSS feed for your podcast download a script called RSS reader. Oh, this is not writing me a script. This is giving me a script to read on the show. No.

20:20 Dave Jones: I wonder if it's because you use the word script instead of like something like source code. Adam Curry: Okay, that's right. Let's try that. And otherwise, I'll try to write rust source code. Otherwise, I'll try different LM while we're while we're doing something else. Dave Jones: Our guest is proficient at rest. He could have probably already written this program and the time it takes to type it into Adam Curry: the Why don't we bring our guest in because he's it's not like he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to all this stuff. I mean, he is kind of bleeding somewhat of the value for value hosting revolution, would you say? I would say I would say I think we bring him in and you know, when he can participate in everything, including listening to our clips, because we got a lot to talk about. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the boardroom. From rssb.com W Das.

21:12 Hello. Hello. Oh, London Master. Dave Jones: You're a master of the pregnant. Suspense. Yeah, Adam Curry: very nice. Very nice. Hello, David. Dovydas: It was very difficult to decide how enthusiastic you should be when entering a podcast. No, if you are too reserved, people are gonna think you're boring. And if you are doing fantastic, people are gonna think you're someone like Howard Dean. Adam Curry: Wait, I have this I have the Dean scream somewhere. Interesting. Dave Jones: Not too much. You cannot be too Adam Curry: narrow it is. Although the new the new one. The new scream is the did you hear that? The guy who was the witness to the F 35. Crash was Dave Jones: bad on taking the shave. And I heard a speech and saw that between a speech and a whistle this Adam Curry: guy's the best pipe you got to see this guy is phenomenal.

22:26 Dave Jones: This almost the goat screen. This is Adam Curry: it is very close. It's very close to the goat scream, in fact, extremely close to WDS. Now, we've had you on the show before, haven't we? Oh, am I mistaken? Dovydas: I don't think so they remember that? Adam Curry: Oh, man negative. Well, that's lame. And so I didn't even know that you were in London to start with. You've been there for eight years. I learned in our little preamble. Dovydas: I had Yes. Yesterday was my eight year anniversary. Oh, arriving here. Adam Curry: Congratulations. Now do you? Do you have a British citizenship? Or are you working on a visa? What changed with Brexit? Dovydas: So after Brexit, what happened? The European Union citizens, which I am, were offered essentially a scheme to stay in the UK using what they call settled status. So that's what I have now. And I essentially have an indefinite right to remain here.

23:25 Adam Curry: Oh, that's nice, because the European Union did not offer the same courtesy to British citizens. I was in Spain. And you know, there was this little village speeches. And it had a British Polo Club at a British school and they were all closed. Everybody had Dave Jones: to leave? Yeah, Adam Curry: yeah. Yeah. Dave Jones: Where are you from? Originally? David does. Dovydas: I'm originally from Lithuania. In Europe, Adam Curry: now, I must say right off the bat that my wife Tina, the keeper is half Lithuanian. Wow. Yes. Nice. I always call her a semi backup Russian. If we run out of Russians, we can always use the list of women. That'd be fine.

24:07 be fine to use your guys. Dave Jones: Emergency bread break glass in case of lack of rushes. Yes. Adam Curry: So So we definitely want to get your input on on a lot of this stuff at WWE. You've built an interesting company, because I think it's I have heard an interview with you. And I think it's just you who's who's doing all of the work at RSS blue.com. Dovydas: That's correct. So I do have a day job. But in my spare time, I have built ours as blue, which is essentially just attempt to bring modern standards to podcasting and offer a better experience than anything that closed source and essentially proprietary standards could offer let's say in Spotify or Apple Adam Curry: well, you're doing a fine job because I You're so ahead of the game that I see While we talked about it on podcast, index dot social, you even now have an on ramp for musicians for people to get their music up. And I haven't gone through the path, but I presume it makes it clear how they fill out the right fields and make it albums and since and tracks etc.

25:17 Dovydas: Oh, that's correct. So what do we do have an RSS blue is essentially an interface that is actually dependent on the medium you choose. So you can have a regular podcast. But you can also set the medium to music, which will interpret your podcast as a music album. So you will see the front interface where you will be asked instead of episodes to upload tracks, you will see specific fields for things like lyrics, and so on. And there is a very accessible interface to essentially enable the value for value. And we support the most general standard. Essentially, you can use any wallet you want Albea fountain, anything else that supports key send protocol. And essentially, the next step would be to enable music shows. So value times and then yeah, Adam Curry: magic. Switching technology. That's right.

26:15 Dovydas: So that's the next thing I'm going to work on. Adam Curry: Do you have? Do you have mute? People using the medium equals music tag yet? Dovydas: So there are a few albums on ours as blue. So I'll admit, while lake a is currently dominating that area, but I feel our says blue can offer a superior experience because we actually offer the full D for a model with splits. Yeah, nice and everything. Adam Curry: Beautiful. Beautiful. Dave Jones: So are you do you have integration? When you do you have integration with Albion fountains so that you could if you're a podcaster, you can switch fire up a wallet from there from the from the your UI? Or do you have to go and get all that information and then plug it in like bit by bit to write your UI. Right, right, right. So Dovydas: I wanted to avoid very coupled integration. So I want to have a service RS as blue, which, like UNIX, you know, does one thing and does it well. But what I do use is these public protocols, where people don't even need to log in to essentially retrieve their details from Alby or fountain, all we have to enter is their lightning address, like adam@fountain.fm. And all of these details are essentially automatically retrieved. And I believe ours Blue was the first company to do that. And I've seen other companies now adopt

27:49 this kind of approach. Yeah, as Adam Curry: sovereign feeds is use this for quite a while. I'll give Stephen Bell some props he has, he has a when you when you do your value block. It has. It has all this, you know, it has found and it has Alby and and Dovydas: so I think this was adapted from ours as blue, really, because we did that. This was done last year, and I think someone from Alby essentially suggested to do the same in sovereign feats. Adam Curry: Okay. Yeah. You could have in hive as well. I see. I see. I see that sovereign feeds has used V for v dot app. For the hive thing. Dovydas: Right. Right. Right. So I had that too, essentially. So we have essentially three buttons. B and, and hive. Yeah.

28:32 But now I have a very general interface, where essentially, you just enter any blinding address. And it attempts to retrieve the details using the key send protocol, which is, you know, just like a URL. Right, right. Right. Adam Curry: Nice. Well, that's so cool, man. And I guess I would, I would ask, you know, I know how Dave's life runs, you know, he has a day job. And I think he sits at his desk, and is probably looking at the logs of the index and all of the servers all the time, and probably not really not really doing his his real job. Do you see? Are you able to combine this?

29:12 Dovydas: I mean, it's difficult. It's difficult, because I'm so enthusiastic about this project. But yes, it's a difficult thing to balance. And, you know, in the future, I would ideally want to shift the shift to two entirely, ours as blue, right to spend all my time on this project, because I feel this is just so important. And something that I'm passionate about, Adam Curry: how close are you? Do you think, is it just a matter of getting more customers, I presume, or would that also meet need means you have to scale helpdesk, etc? Dovydas: Well, it's difficult. I mean, ideally, I would want to bootstrap to essentially have enough customers so that I can do this full time but For external funding is not out of the question. So I will see what's the best approach essentially? Make this my full time job?

30:11 Dave Jones: What is your what's your stack look like? WDS? Would What is your was your back end? How's that built? I have to see what you're doing. But yeah, lay that out for me. Dovydas: Right. So one thing I hate is JavaScript. So there is just a minimum, high five, just on the front end. But the back end is powered mostly by go. So it's a simple language that can easily manage many requests at a time, are simple to write in, and so on. But recently, I've been starting to move some of the stuff to rust. Because I feel it provides a lot of compile time safety control, it's very rich type system.

31:04 Again, it's not easy, because rust is so essentially innovative, that some of the other parts that have to interact with it don't work as well. So for example, if you look at databases, there's often a mismatch of what can be expressed interest and what can actually be expressed in database like post Postgres or something like that. Dave Jones: So do you think what are your feelings about go versus async? Ross? Do you think that that's, I've there's a lot of rumblings right now about async. Rust being just not? Adam Curry: Yeah, if I, if I could just if I could just say I totally agree. I think async rust is just a total pain in the ass.

31:45 Dave Jones: Yeah, it is. Yeah, I knew you felt that way. That's what I brought up. Just Adam Curry: want to let you know, I don't know, Adobe does things. Yeah. Dovydas: So what do you mean, they've? I'm not really familiar with that debate. Dave Jones: There's a lot of people think that is ill conceived. That is basically that there's going to be some sort of rewrite that goes on because of the interruption. Some of the assumptions. Yeah, they specifically the asynchronous part, to bring it more in line with something like go where the where parallelizing is, is way easier. Dovydas: So I'll admit, I don't have that much experience of that. What I know is that Ross, for example, lacks some functionality, some async functionality in certain parts of the language. So for example, you can't you can't really do methods, like implementations that are async, you essentially just have to have separate functions that are async. But to be honest, Dave Jones: I haven't really familiarized myself with that part. Okay, just just just thought of it as the what can you lay out what, I have a list here on the on the Apps page of what tags you support? But this may not be up to date, what what do you have currently on 2.0 tags.

33:07 Dovydas: So one of the main features, as we've discussed is value for value. And again, it's one thing to essentially implement the feature. And it's really hard thing to do it well with a very easy to understand interface. So that's what I've essentially been doing for a long time to essentially perfect the intuitive nature of value for value, the fact that you can have multiple recipients of value, that they can have different splits, and that these addresses can come from multiple services. have, you know, a lot of orgasm. Yep.

33:51 Adam Curry: I'm sorry. I know that really, what it comes down to in the hosting game is, you know, it's the tools, there's I would say a lot of customers go for pricing, and I know that you have like a base price of five or $6 a month, which is quite low. Have you considered this since you are kind of early in the game or in the early in the in the evolution of the company and the products, but also in as a business? Have you considered doing pure value for value and taking a split in lieu of regular payment? Dovydas: I have dope, to be honest, it is kind of difficult to ensure that the company gets paid the fair amount. So if we do, for example, enable a feature of instead of you know, collecting some subscription fee per month, let's say maybe instead of doing the value split, it doesn't really guarantee that the podcasters are going to ask for that value.

35:00 Throughout all the, their episodes, don't ask for value that no one is going to send that value and the company's going is not going to receive it either. So I think that's the main difficulty. Adam Curry: Yeah, is I mean, it does require a little closer communication, I would say with your customers. Dave Jones: Honestly, I don't think you even have to go as loose as that. I mean, so, to my knowledge, there's no podcast hosting company around that will just take Bitcoin as payment. I mean, even if you just sent a lightning invoice so there's that if you just send a lightning invoice once a month for the monthly hosting fee.

35:48 Adam Curry: Yeah, you'd attract the right customers. Dave Jones: Right? Yeah. And they might be more likely for that. But you know, like, you're not saying, well, here you can have you can be hosted and then just, you know, pay what you want. You're saying, Well, hey, there is a minimum cost, and we're gonna bill you for that if you don't meet it. Each month, we're gonna min we're gonna bill you for that by sending you a, you know, like a heat lightning invoice in your email each month. And if you don't pay, I mean, we're gonna cut you off like anybody else. That that would be because Adam Curry: I would send people I would send people to you, if if you did that nine, and the people I send are high quality? Of course. Dovydas: Of course. Me It's difficult. It's difficult to you also don't want to appear that you're taking too much, you know, if there's some minimum monthly fee, and then on top, there's some split. You know, some people may feel this is just too much taken from what they rightfully earn.

36:44 Dave Jones: I think you'd be surprised. Yeah, I Adam Curry: think I think it'd be surprised to I, I know several people who use Well, let's put it this way. I've cut people into my value blocks, and they make more than $6 a month. For for stuff they do or stuff they've done or for technology we're using they make significantly more than that. And, and you know, it's something about it Dolby das that as as a podcaster. I kind of just like forgot, you know, it's like it's just a part of life. And it hasn't Hey, my script is done. Oh, hold on a second. Now, you need to have the the request. Thing installed here, put it in the chat. There we go. So I need that. Okay, check it out. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt, but I just want to paste this.

37:36 Dave Jones: Yes, that's legit. That's legit. Oh, hold on. Are you gonna post this in? Like? Adam Curry: No. Oh, no, it's not done. I'm sorry. It's still it's still producing, producing. Yeah, but it's writing. It's writing I want Dave Jones: you to, I want you to paste this rust or Sudan into IRC one by line and then have the boost boost by compiler. Adam Curry: That will, that will be cool. It's just something to consider Dobby does. I got a lot of fun. I think Dave does, too. I have so many feelings about what's happening with podcasting. You know, the podcast industrial complex, which people still believe is a $2 billion advertising market in the United States alone. I'm just I'm just blown away by the by this this statistic, which is there's no evidence whatsoever, I cannot find the money. Now I can find 100 million. Sure.

38:33 Yeah, there's typecast Dave Jones: podcast one down to $2.11, Adam Curry: which is, which is a travesty. I mean, it is because the people on the inside who got options. And me when I read that they're going to you know, we're going to issue stock. Now, I think that's a that's kind of a punt. They have to restrike the options, I had to do this myself. So I know this pain, where you have employees and podcasts and you said, Okay, we're gonna let you buy, we're gonna give you stock at $3. So it comes out at eight, but you have a lock up for 90 days. So you can't you can't do anything with it. That which sometimes it's longer than 90 days. And and then people see their options are underwater. So you essentially are the loss if you wanted to convert them, you'd have to, you'd have to pay money just to get the stock. And it takes many, many quarters of good numbers with good I mean, on on projection. You don't have to make profit, as long as you can project and say, Okay, this is how much we're going to lose. Or this is the path that we get to profitability, which I might point out, as far as I know, no company has, has shown. Spotify hasn't shown it for sure. I don't think a cast has shown it Dave Jones: is it $2.08 I mean, it's about to go under two bucks. This this is just as well as it is. So I heard a interview I heard an interview with the CEO left pocket.

40:00 Adam Curry: This is a funny guy. He's kind of a Goomba. He's kind of like his New Jersey guy. Dave Jones: It was a great accent. Ellen, I think his last name is Ellen, but I don't remember his first name. But um, yeah. So he kind of lays out. It's this interviews with Yahoo Finance. And so he lays out a lot. I think he's, he's just laying it all out on the table here. I think he's, I think he's a fairly honest dude, about where they're going. And he's telling exactly what their strategy is, I believe, Unknown: when you make the decision to go public now. Adam Curry: I'm trying to hit you, and then you went off. You can't leave too much of a pause. Let's try it again. We'll cut it out. No difference.

40:44 Dave Jones: Okay. Yeah. The he lays out the the the strategy only problem is the strategy is probably one that is not going to work, because it's been tried about 100 times Unknown: when you make the decision to go public now, and you do this via spec, why did this make sense for your company? Sure. Great question. Adam Curry: I gotta stop right there. So did they back into a spec? Dave Jones: No, no, they did not this, he's, he's wrong. She's wrong with that. Adam Curry: Okay, because it was a spin out from live one. So he goes over that, yeah, it was not a liquidity event. They didn't raise money. They just took a piece. And then they said, it'll be more valuable on its own. And it turns out, well, it is, it's twice as valuable as their own company, which is about a buck 25.

41:28 Unknown: All right, here we go. Can you make the decision to go public now? And you do this via spec? Why did this make sense for your company? Sure. Great question. This wasn't a spec is actually the first time ever done the history, where it was a spin off of a minority stake. Apologies. So we uplisted our stock. And the reason that we did it is is and we started this process almost eight months ago, it got delayed a little bit by NASDAQ. When it finally got by the time it finally got done, we had already achieved a lot of our goals. And one of those goals was to acquire additional podcast networks. So this is that kind of perfect storm in podcasting. You had this wild cycle, Spotify, Apple iHeart, spending billions and billions and billions of dollars, you know, big multiples, right to acquire both individual podcasts, whether it's Joe Rogan, or he's buying networks or buying technology now is that opportunity where there's a window where a sophisticated management team like ours, who has the history of doing this, the history of doing a radio, and now in podcasting could acquire and roll up multiple as podcast networks. So we've bought a distressed asset called cast media, very distressed, Troubled Asset was a lot of money to its podcasters and couldn't really afford to pay them and the banks pulled out and that holds pulled out. So we acquired those and have added some some very serious revenues to it. So this morning, we announced as part of the uplisting, we increased our guidance from 34 million last year, to this year being 47 to 53 million, and for the first time ever very seriously, but not for four to $5 million even. So dramatic, dramatic turn for

43:01 the company. And I fully expect to use that currency going forward for additional acquisitions. Adam Curry: So rollouts, it's a roll up strategy I've done one of these Dave Jones: is the scoop and score, you catch them on the way down, when they're distressed, and when they're when they're looking, you know, looking bad. And you just hope that what you're catching is not a falling knife. And so she challenges him a little bit on that, because in clip two, because she's like, Hey, this is not, but but things are looking kind of rough, though. Right. Unknown: Rob, on that point that you made about where the podcast industry has been? It feels like there's a bit of a shakedown that's happening. You know, there were some big names that were acquired, especially for Spotify. We were talking about Megan Merkel's podcasts, for example, earlier today, that haven't necessarily performed. Well. Are we at a saturation point? How would you characterize the state of the industry right now?

43:52 The beginning of the beginning? Adam Curry: I tried to guess. Sorry about that. Yeah. Sorry. No, no, Dave Jones: no, the you know, this is a this is a different version of the it's a young industry. Adam Curry: Yeah, it's only it's only 20 years old, it's young. Yes, Dave Jones: this is this a different version of that Oh, of that old favorite, which is nice. Not even now is not even young. We're just getting started. Like it's like a fetus. Adam Curry: It's so new. I mean, it's only been around since 2018. Who knows? Unknown: How would you characterize the state of the industry right now? The beginning of the beginning, Adam Curry: the beginning of the beginning. Now, Brother, brother, all right, we're really Unknown: in the first maybe second inning of podcasting. It's grown since COVID, from 400 million to 1.3 billion. But you know, from all the numbers are indicating globally, it'll be a seven to $10 billion industry by 2030. Oh, so you gotta go through another set, Adam Curry: but by 2030, the earth will be 2.5 degrees warmer, we're all going to be dead. Was that the next question? Because that shouldn't be Dave Jones: because of the Bitcoin.

44:53 Adam Curry: The boiling worldly Unknown: is seven to $10 billion industry by 2030. So you get to go through another cycle you went through that first cycle, right? real enthusiasm and excitement. Now you've got to pull back because people had a data that acquired all these assets they have to they have to figure out how to run them. Yeah, Dave Jones: I mean, yeah. So his his thing is like we don't Ostroff was here. She couldn't handle it. Yeah, she she didn't know what she was doing. Now, you have to be able to know how to run it. Yeah, the reason they they are good at this. Yes. So in clip three, he explains their methodology. Unknown: Hey, Rob, I wanted to ask you, and we're showing some of the competitors up there on the screen or other names that are in this space? How do you get that edge when it is more and more crowded when you talk about the fact that the industry is certainly seems like it's going under a bit of a transformation process? When we talk about moving away from the massive spending that we've seen over the last several years? How do you find that niche? Well, I think it's twofold, right? We're very, very selective, you probably for any have listened to my interviews previously, I talked about my team runs a company like Moneyball.

46:03 Moneyball, we really run it almost like a hedge fund. Oh, we're very careful and very selective. Adam Curry: The hedge fund is known for their careful selectivity. Unknown: And we try to find that niche between sort of 50,000 and a half a million downloads, right, and we'll grow that now. Right now, it'd be the first time we'll have an opportunity, get podcast, and you're starting to see that come over on a regular basis, we're doing a million but we fill that niche with the Creator really needs the full support. And I think what's happened is, you know, the larger places, right for them to manage those smaller creators is really difficult. And Adam Curry: while he's starting to explain the problem with a podcast network, as you know, I've always said you can't monetize the network. And it's exactly that is when you have a network. Then he says manage those smaller creatives. Yeah, those are the ones who are the squeakiest wheels. I didn't get any promotion. Why is he on the homepage? How come I didn't get in on that advertising by that's what starts to spin out of control with every company in the beginning in the pod show days. So a couple other ones revision three, there were some other ones. They all had podcaster relations department, then these people burned out like every nine months. Because they were trying to keep her Yeah, they were trying to keep the podcasters happy and it was it's not it's not possible and we set up our podcasters with their own LLC, we did all the the initial setup and management for them on the LLC and made

47:33 sure they had accountants and they ran it as their own business. You know, the it's, it is not an easy task to do certain we only had, I don't know 20, tops, tops, and they have to all be hits. Otherwise you're spinning your wheels on all the people who don't really bring in revenue Dave Jones: this this so if you read Ashley Carmen's article is either from day to day or yesterday at a Bloomberg where she goes over this guy Rosen Baum, who was sort of it was the Talent Agent behind call her daddy and a bunch of these like, big date lucrative podcast deals. She the her article explains that that is exactly what is happening right now with that with that group. They are there's now loud complaining and people are leaving because they say they only that the that agent only focuses on his top guys and not on them. And it's exactly what happened.

48:36 Adam Curry: Now in addition to that, what I think the problem is with that certainly cast what i've what I've come to learn from like cast media and I have I have questions about what they did with that is then people join the network. We're gonna give you a minimum guarantee. And such a bad idea. Yeah, I mean, that's a horrible idea. minimum guarantee. That's where you go broke. And then the so there's this I was listening to pod news weekly and they were talking about the magical $4 million that went away. Well, when the when podcast one acquired the distressed asset known as cast media, did they make any one hole? Or was that the you know, the oh, we'll give you some stock. Now subsequently, when you went down by 400% Dave Jones: that's the scoop and score Yeah, they're trying they're trying to scoop these like catch them right and right before they hit the dirt so that they wouldn't want to so that they could not have to pay a minimum guarantee because the distress would make them who would make these credit and I'm not saying this is nefarious it's no no no nothing just you're not accusing it's just Adam Curry: no one listened to me that's what this is. No one listened to me.

49:45 Dave Jones: She asked him another question like you know, get what's yeah, there's a lot of question marks still. What's the next big thing? Unknown: I guess network podcast one going public today on the NASDAQ a spin out Um, it's paranoid to be Dave Jones: your best for it. It's just clipped for. Is it? Okay, so she asked him Oh, I can probably. Adam Curry: It seems like he got the whole interview there for some reason. Hold on. I just Unknown: feel like I don't have enough hours in the day but there. Yep. Okay, I made a little before free content. There's not enough hours in the day to cover it. Adam Curry: That you want me to go back a little bit more. Dave Jones: You had it? You nailed it. Oh, I Adam Curry: did. Okay. All right. Yeah. That's coincidental.

50:28 Unknown: Yeah. Rob, I'm gonna talk to that I have so many favorites in podcasting. I feel like I don't have enough hours in the day. But you know, you mentioned we're still in the early innings. There's another wave coming. What do you think's gonna drive that? Adam Curry: Dave batten down the hatches? There's another wave coming. Unknown: Is it about the Joe Rogan style podcast? Is it about storytelling? Is it the fictional scripted content? Adam Curry: Let me guess, true crime? What do you think is Unknown: going to be the big catalyst to move this even further? Dave Jones: Okay, so predictions W das you get to predict to what is the Adam Curry: next wave the next wave the next big thing? Dave Jones: The next inning?

51:09 Dovydas: I feel true crime doesn't make sense because it's already so big right now. I just think they're gonna try to get even more stars on these podcasts that no one listens to. Adam Curry: That's a big way. Unknown: It's a great question. I mean, we're we're, we're very powerful community and network powerful driving our podcasts across each other's podcasts, using that community to grow. I think it's gonna be a little bit everything right. You know, Laura Martin over Needham always described our company from all the great things we did in music, and we're just starting to hit this in podcasting, right. I've only owned the company for three years, right? And that three years we took it from about 20 million in revenues, losing a lot of money to where now it's going to do over $50 million and be very, very EBIT dot positive, right?

52:01 Adam Curry: Very, very, very EBIT da positive, positive. That's estimate its earnings before income tax, depreciation and amortization. This was for all your costs. Unknown: The reason for that is we've got the team in place we got the management, we're starting to hit that critical mass and you really don't need any additional infrastructure. You really have no additional costs and what I see happening is multiple revenue streams. YouTube has changed the dynamics completely now. You don't have just audio you have video coming in to have and you probably Adam Curry: how come Rob Greenlee isn't working at this place yet Didn't you already work there it was he already he already has Unknown: awakened he left changed the dynamics completely you now video so you don't have just audio you have video coming in. Next you're going to have and you probably know you know, my background and you know winning atmosphere films and having the movie 300 And, you know, billions in revenues and Spiderwick Chronicles and Patrick Blacksburg who sits on my board and just went whoa, Adam Curry: whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what did this guy do?

53:00 Dave Jones: Evidently, it was billions in revenue. Adam Curry: He's a movie company what his background is impressive as Spider Man something and Dave Jones: Spiderwick Chronicles in the movie 300 is the 300 Adam Curry: listed Unknown: my background in owning atmosphere films and having the movie 300. And did you know billions in revenues in Spiderwick Chronicles and Patrick Blacksburg who sits on my board and just winning Academy Award, we have a passion around turning these podcasts into television and film. Adam Curry: Oh, okay. No, that's, that's IP. That's the strategy. That's right, everybody, you make no money. But if you're lucky, if you're lucky, if you're lucky, we'll turn you into a television show where you have more chances of losing out. And Unknown: if you can hit that second window, you can have one or two, you know, one or two pieces of IP that you control and own good turn out the entire network and revenues and bottom line. And then products. Just look at what Logan Paul is trying. It's truly amazing. He uses his podcast, very much like my brother did an entourage when he used Avi own or Adam Curry: Oh, his brother was his brother and entourage.

54:02 Evidently Ah, okay. Look at Unknown: what Logan Paul is doing with prime. It's truly amazing. He uses his podcast very much like my brother did an entourage when he used Avi own right. There really wasn't your marketing presenting it. You were just it was integrated into to the content. And if we can keep doing that you're gonna see more and more products launch from a company. I love the live side of the business. Right watching the net. You Dave Jones: can cut it there the next so the next big thing what is YouTube? Yeah, P IP native advertising. Yeah, pretty much the same thing is the old thing. It didn't work before but it'll work now. By the way, the stock has gone up to $2.12 Oh, I've been talking Adam Curry: man. Literally. I should have gone long on my twin. I think we play Five Year Old At five was five apart now.

54:50 That was fine. Yeah, no, we're good. This is interesting because the clips that I brought today and David asked, okay, man, are you okay to hang out with us? Because we're just chatting a little bit here. Of course. Yeah. Okay, because this is going to be only beneficial for you because what is happening is and they didn't. I'm surprised that Yahoo Finance did not really ask about advertising revenue. I mean, I presume that they know when he talks about downloads that that there's going to be advertising revenue. Isn't that kind of how they're going to make their money? Question mark, question mark. Yeah. Because because I have bad news for everybody. And I don't like being this messenger. But I only took me about four days to figure out what this Russell Brand thing was really about.

55:41 Dave Jones: And I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah. What is that? Well, so Adam Curry: you know, Russell Brand, very successful YouTuber also has a deal with rumble. And I think that's a you know, like a brand brand, like, Hey, I'm Russell Brand them on rumble. So they're paying him to be on rumble. Not necessarily because he brings in advertisers or whatever it he has one, one and a half million people, subscribers numbers, a number of 1.4 million on his rumble thing, which is a YouTube look like there's many, many of them. So all of a sudden, channel four, which is the channel that made him the star that he is in the UK, I mean, he was a mainstream M five M Channel Four guy, movies, Hollywood, the whole thing they decided with, with a newspaper to do an expose a on him, and they had been working on this for more than a year. And they have four women who say that he raped them. And before this even came out, and that was by the way, they they it was they stopped regular programming to air this wasn't scheduled like, oh, it's gonna be the Russell Brand expos a in a week or in two weeks? No, it's like, it's like, oh, we're pre empting. All programming, we have to show this right away. That does it. Immediate, better 33322. And so he comes out the day before and says, Oh, they're going to do something about me, which says that I've done some

57:11 horrible things. I deny these allegations. This is not true. All of my relationships have been consensual. And I've been very open about my promiscuity, etc. And by the way, they could have done this XYZ on him at any time. They probably should have done it when he was a channel four. Because that's when it was all going down. And you know, there's questionable, the allegations are, are definitely not good. But there's no criminal investigation or no criminal charges that I'm aware of. But he's basically been convicted just by the media. So what we'll see if I can do this in the right in the right order.

57:53 So what you'd expect is an entire me two conversation to happen. You know, it's like everyone should be talking about No, no, is no. And, you know, believe or even is pleased. It's just they believe all women. That's what it used to be. But that was not the conversation anywhere, anywhere, including our very own pod news Weekly Review, Unknown: I'm sure that Adam will probably cover it on the Friday show. He has had, he's been cancelled, basically on many platforms. And unless I'm wrong, the law used to be innocent until proven guilty. Adam Curry: Now while Sam, of course is correct, that is not even in play here. No one's really even talking about that.

58:38 It's only about canceling Russell Brand and a very specific kind of canceling Unknown: as opposed to guilty on social media. And then the platform. Yes, I think I mean, he's been so what he hasn't necessarily been D platformed. But what's gone on is YouTube music. So in case you don't know, he's been he's a comedian in inverted commas in the UK, and he's been accused of a number of quite serious sexual allegations. And my understanding is that YouTube has demonetized him although Todd and Rob were very, or at least Rob was very keen in suggesting that he may have been demonetized, because the advertisers didn't want to be advertising the next to his content.

59:26 Adam Curry: This is what is happening. D monetization, but it's not even the platform's No, we're going after advertisers. Because once you go after the advertisers, that's it the platform's buckle and fold immediately, because we can't have a reputation and YouTube of course, you know, Google right away did that. But it seems like people are going after advertisers everywhere. So it might not have been by the way, if Rob says that I'm going to take That is true if if he heard that I think he's close enough to YouTube to know that that's probably what happened. Advertisers said, Yeah, we don't care if you have that guy on but we don't want ads anywhere near him. So it might Unknown: not have been YouTube actually making that decision.

1:00:13 It might have been the advertisers who basically said no, he's he's he's no longer brand safe. And Adam Curry: James says it correctly. It's not the it's not the platform, the advertisers call the shots. The advertisers call the shots they control, not the not the platform, the advertisers remember that. Unknown: But in any case, he's been demonetized from his YouTube channel where he has six point something million people. So that's quite a thing. I know that the BBC, have been sniffing around BBC News, which is journalistically independent from the rest of the BBC, I know that they've been sniffing around the podcast companies wondering whether the podcast platforms are taking down Russell Brand content. So I have been helping them with their inquiries. Oh, nice.

1:01:06 Adam Curry: All right, James. Okay, so just just inquires, I understand. I'm sure you're very helpful to the independent BBC News. So they are not only looking at YouTube and, and video platforms, but they are sniffing around the BBC is sniffing around to see make sure that no podcasting companies are better be taken Russell Brand off of their networks. They've been wanting to do this for so long. And how do you think they're doing that? Well, they're gonna be doing that by going after their advertisers. But there was something else interesting that James said, Unknown: I mean, I have to say, I was listening to the news agents a couple of days ago, and they started with a clip of Russell Brand talking to Jimmy Savile.

1:01:50 Adam Curry: That's actually the so that's, Dave Jones: that's a mental Association, though, being made. Well, that's actually been him and like one of the worst sexual criminals in British history. Adam Curry: And that's the second episode of the news agents, where they started with and talked about Russell Brand. I listen to the news agents. I like it. I think it's good. It's a bunch of very famous British journalists. And it's kind of a newsroom type idea. They sit around and chat about the news the way you would in the newsroom. And they are really famous. They've interviewed all the all the big people in the world. So the first episode where they talked about Russell Brand, you would think that some journalists would be talking about Wow, these allegations, are there. Are there any charges being made? I mean, is this going to illegal case? Is it going to be tried in Los Angeles, where it took place will be tried in the UK? Well, what do you think not? Isn't it funny, they didn't talk about that at all.

1:02:47 Unknown: I mean, when you've got a situation when you know, Russell Brand, I mean, just to take some of his digital followings. He's got 4 million on Instagram, 2.2 million on tick tock six and a half million on YouTube. And you know, when you look at some of the things that some of his followers have been saying over the weekend, in response to him, and you know, the internet isn't necessarily real life, but it's always, to some extent, a reflection of a bit of real life. And it is also financial, financially lucrative and realize, oh, it's Adam Curry: financially lucrative. Oh, we can't have that. Unknown: You know, some of the things we're with you, Russell. I've been wondering how long it would be until they they tried to pull this card with a lot of crying emoji. I'm with you all the way Russell, they did it to Assange. They tried it with Bernie Sanders. They did it to Corbin. They'll try and find anyone they find a threat. And as we were talking about yesterday, this is where there is the intersection between media and this new media ecosystem. And politics.

1:03:42 Adam Curry: Yeah, there it is. This is really about the new media ecosystem and politics. This is this is not about Russell Brand raping anybody. That's not what this is about. This is about the elite messaging system. They don't like it. They don't and, in fact, isn't on the same day, in fact that they passed the Online Safety Act in the UK, which is just funny by itself, which will be making it much easier for law enforcement to take content down. We have a dame Caroline denies JD and Onge. She's a member of parliament. She's the chair of the culture Media and Sport committee commission committee writing a memo to the CEO of rumble. Then listen to what she says. I am writing concerning the serious allegations regarding Russell Brand in the context of his being a content provider on rumble with more than 1.4 million followers. You see the see the irritation here. The culture Media and Sport committee is raising questions with the broadcasters and production companies who previously employed Mr. Brand to examine both the culture of the industry in the past and whether that culture still prevails today and here comes however, we are also looking at His use of social media including on rumble, where he issued his pre emptive response to the accusations made against him by the Sunday Times. And Channel Four dispatches. While we recognize that Rumble is not the creator of the content published by Mr. Brand, we are concerned that he may be able to profit

1:05:15 from his content on the platform, we would be grateful if you could confirm whether Mr. Brand is able to monetize his content, including his videos relating to the serious accusations against him. If so, we would like to know whether rumble intends to join YouTube in suspending Mr. brand's ability to earn money on the platform. Dave Jones: What an odd letter it. Adam Curry: And now to his credit, the CEO of rumble said we're not going to do any such thing. Whatever he does outside of the content on Rumble is what he does. Let's go back to the News agents. Unknown: I think there are places that are a few like the safety net more than that the new ecosystem to this whole idea of cancellation so Adam Curry: so they're they're talking about the new ecosystem.

1:06:08 And this is a big problem for them. And they want to de monetize anybody using the new ecosystem. As we just heard from James, the BBC, journalists are now going to podcast companies sniffing around think make sure that no one's that he's not able to make any money. And the last thing you want is the BBC to say, well, you know, what, this company over here who has advertisers, they are letting Russell Brand make money? He don't you know, he's a rapist. Kid that that now we're into a whole different ballgame. This is not about any accusations.

1:06:48 It's not even about him being guilty. by public opinion, this is this is about control of the ecosystem that they don't like. Unknown: I was told yesterday that actually one of the platforms in which Russell Brand is heavily monetizing cabling is rumble. And it was a site that I wasn't that familiar with. Adam Curry: Miss never heard on the internet all the time. I never seen a rumble, Unknown: it kind of tends to serve the All right, it tends to the characters like Alex Jones and Steve Bannon and the sort of Info Wars kind of people. And I was told that Russell Brand is actually getting millions. What he does there, whether it's monetized or whether they're actually just paying for him, Adam Curry: there is no concern for rape victims in this woman's mind. There's no concern for misogynistic, anything. No, no, no, I'm concerned Dave Jones: money.

1:07:48 Adam Curry: I'm concerned that this guy, this guy, with Alex Jones is of the world and the Steve Bannon of the world, that they're able to make money, this will not stand because Unknown: they find people who have exactly been shut out, if you like of the mainstream media, or shut out of the BBC or channel four, or places that no longer want to work with him and say, oh, right, let us be your home. And we will provide the following for people who don't really want to be part of that mainstream media landscape. Anyway. Adam Curry: So So now now we're gonna wrap this up with these guys, because they're just flabbergasted by this, they had no idea. There's a whole alternative ecosystem, which according to the BBC includes podcasts, and this will not stand.

1:08:36 Unknown: And so actually, half the stuff is going on that a lot of people won't see they won't recognize they totally forgotten about him, right. I went on rumble last night. And it was really interesting, because Whoa, boy, what did you discover lady? I didn't know that he'd done the first interview with Tucker Carlson. At Fox News. Oh, no, not Adam Curry: the fired Fox News. Tucker Unknown: Carlson presenter. He's interviewed Ron DeSantis. Oh, no Republican keys, I would never, you would never know that Russell Brand was so tied in to what we think of as the sort of, I don't know, the Magga voice or the American voice. Adam Curry: Oh, Ron DeSantis is not all right. All right, mainstream Republican. But okay, I understand this is your bias.

1:09:23 Unknown: And this suggests that, you know, we will happily admit, we are probably missing parts of these conversations where Russell Brand is flourishing and will continue to flourish. Whether or not the BBC removes an episode of Qi. Exactly. And that's what is I think that's what's so fascinating about this, which is that yeah, I mean, I just I was trying to wrap my brains this morning. I had some vague sense I think that he had gone down this kind of anti Vax kind of route and had become kind of more eccentric, Adam Curry: eccentric anti Vax. Oh, I see Ron DeSantis anti Vax. These are some of the most respected journalists in the UK where they probably still Do some journalists Unknown: kooky, okay, but I had no idea really that he was this is someone I like to think, right that pretty plugged into the media, pretty close observer of the media, but not that type of media. And this is the kind of challenge to us in a way, right? make ourselves feel better by Adam Curry: a challenge. There we have it, Unknown: you know, thinking, Oh, right. He's been dropped by this, that and the other. And maybe it's not applicable to loads of people. But for someone like brand, it doesn't matter.

1:10:24 Adam Curry: Okay, now. So just let me to wrap this up. I'm going to use another example. And I'm so happy that James had told us that the BBC was sniffing around podcast companies, because this is what journalism has become. Journalism has not become like, let me talk to Russell Brand. And let me see what's going on. What do you say about these allegations? No, no, no, the BBC independent journalism? Yes, I would. I would say BBC is world renowned for their independent journalism. They are sniffing around podcasting companies trying to get stories, whether he's still monetizing on any of these platforms. And this is exactly what the Washington Post did. Another bastion of reporting. I would say the New York Times and The Washington Post are two of the most respected newspaper newspapers by the mainstream messaging system. They are so hate Dave Portnoy from Barstool Sports.

1:11:24 Dave Jones: But who is this? Yeah, Adam Curry: who is? You know, think of him what you may that he has an event called pizza fest. And he's actually been supporting pizzerias during the whole lockdown, and he raised millions of dollars for small businesses. So instead of talking to Dave Portnoy and saying, We hate you, you misogynist. They went behind his back to his sponsors. This is Emily. Unknown: Emily, this is Dave Portnoy calling. I'm recording you right now. But I've noticed a bunch of people you're it seems like you're sending. We have this pizza fest happening on Saturday, and you're reaching out to our advertisers. And you're basically sending an email that says to the effect, Dave's mesogenic racist, do you want to defend yourselves advertising at this event? Right.

1:12:13 I'm sorry. What's your name? Dave. I'm sorry. Who are you? I'm the guy you're writing the article about Dave Portnoy. Oh, you're Jake Portnoy. Oh, hey, how are you? Hey, good. No, I'm not. I'm not. I haven't said anything like that. I'm well, I can read. If you want. If you want, I can read what you actually sent. I have it. Yeah, yeah. Because I sent a bunch of notes. So I want to make sure I know which one. Okay. We are planning to write about the festival and how and how some of the sponsors and participants have drawn criticism by seemingly to associate themselves with Dave Portnoy, who has a history of mesogenic comments and other problematic behavior. I want to make sure that blank had a chance to respond to this since the company is the most prominent and their partners of his Festival, which was definitely the most pointed of them. Because point I really did want them to respond. And I was hoping to get something from them. Do you think that's fair? Like, I totally disagree with the assertions of what you said that mesogenic and all that stuff. So like, it kind of backs people into a corner. So I'm happy to go over anything. I mean, you have that is pretty pointed. You said you didn't do it, then I have the exact evidence of you doing it. So I didn't say I didn't do that. I said I did that was the one that was the most well, no, yeah.

1:13:28 Adam Curry: So my I think my point is made here they're going after advertisers, they can't go after the platform's directly. They're not even asking you to to deep platformed like to take him off, that just creates too much strife, no, just no money for you. And if the platform's won't do it directly, they will go to your advertisers, and that will end all these Rumble is spending 40 million a month and bringing in 20, their public company, their numbers are public, they're never gonna make it. And advertisers don't want this they don't want you know, yeah. You know, people say well, won't there be advertisers who are who think the same? No, advertisers want to sell to everybody, not just to one kind of person. This is the end of advertising based alternative open free ecosystems, platforms they do not work. They will not work this is why we are here the Lord I'm going to go biblical on you the Lord brought us together Dave Jones to build not just the index, but the value for value system as well with God's money. Now backslash Dave Jones: This is the what was that term with the phrase I'm trying to remember it's the the process is the punishment. This is the process is the punishment because you get just do Is the

1:15:00 accusation of a thing? Not, you know, I know nothing about Russell Brand that he may be completely guilty. But that's not the point. The point is that but the the mere process of going through it is the punishment Yeah, because the focus is not on the guilt or innocence. The focus is on the monetization is like the whole, the whole thing is, we have to hurry up and D monetize you immediately. And then dot dot dot plan, you know, step two, and they don't care what step two is, this Adam Curry: is why people still say we're just in the early days of podcasting, the early wave the second inning, no, advertisers want complete control. They have complete control at YouTube. One of the most powerful companies on Earth runs YouTube. Yet the advertisers have complete control over what they show. We know this now from our reasonably informed inside sources. So this is this is they want they don't want some people talking on a podcast. This no control if unless we know exactly what they say. So enter what has happened now I'm just gonna break it all down. What has happened now is we have aI making or using transcripts, making sure you're brand safe. We have rating agencies, we have Garm we have all these different systems to make sure that the most bland vanilla bull crap stuff. Oh, you know what? Forget

1:16:31 about that. A cast the you know, the who supposedly is still the they're doing it all a cast is doing it. They've got Amy Poehler. And they're baking in what was that? Like some detergent into a scripted show? Yeah, yeah, that will work. That's not alternative, open free media. That's an ecosystem that survives and thrives outside of the mainstream messaging system. No, it's not the it won't work. They want control, you either are all in and have full control, or you don't. And the and just to break it down a little bit further. God bless Dovi Das, God bless, Todd, God bless Tom and Ross.

1:17:17 God bless these guys. We have a distributed RSS based ecosystem. And you can easily bop around, you can even set up your own little RSS feed, you know, I could have 20 people remember, remember, they tried to take down WikiLeaks, and they and they they blocked the domain name. And then everybody started registering WikiLeaks domain names, they never were able to really fully take down WikiLeaks ever. They just gave up on under certain point. And then that just threw him in jail. You know? What, just throw him in jail is a better way. Yeah, that's a better way to do okay. So anyone who thinks that there is an industry that will survive this is wrong is you can become a part of the you know, the news agents industry, you can become a part of that global and all that you can be a part of that.

1:18:07 Very few people will have success. And that's what you're seeing. I don't even think podcast, one can monetize Adam Carolla. He's too polarizing, even though he's pretty bland. But he's not on board with the current messaging. So it will not work the system we have devised and I say we not you and I, but everybody in this boardroom is the only way forward. I'm open to suggestions. But we need to build out what we're doing. Dave Jones: Direct Support that this the only way that it goes. This the only way that I heard that it happened. I don't think any of these companies are making making money. I mean, podcast, one clearly is not a cast is clearly not. Spotify is not, I mean, everybody that's trying these strategies, they're not make they're not profitable. And, you know, it would be different. It would be different if we had this sort of litany of companies that have proven time and time and time again, that this is a viable business model. But I don't think we even have one, do we? I know of none. Has anybody ever successfully? Do we know this for a fact? Now I'm asking do we know this for a fact? I'm not asking whether or not that was a great a quote unquote, great company, or whether or anything like that I'm talking about? Do we know in black and white beyond a shadow of a doubt that a single company that has tried the network pod,

1:19:41 the podcast network roll up strategy has been profitable? No, I don't think we do. No, I don't think we have one example of that working. Adam Curry: Because everyone kept saying we'll do it with ads. We'll do it with ads. We'll do it with ads. We'll do it with IP we'll do with and it's just not there. But the Beauty is Todd's customers receive $10,000 in value for value payments. Dave Jones: See that? That's beautiful. See who that would be? Where? So do you do you put yourself in the split at all? For ourselves? Dovydas: I don't know. Okay, so that's something I might do in the future. Again, you have to really communicate this, right?

1:20:28 As I've said before, because you know, I don't want to create an impression that I'm essentially charging my clients twice. But if you really communicate the D four V model, right, yeah, I think that's totally plausible. Since I would love to, Dave Jones: I would love to have, you know, a lifted for, for you to be able to say, Hey, this is how much money we made for our, you know, for our podcasters. And for Tom and Kevin to say, this is how much we made for our podcasters. And Ben and Alberto to say, this is how much we made. So I would love to have sort of those stats across the board. I thought it was really, that was really open have to have Todd to, to put that Adam Curry: out there. That was awesome. That was awesome.

1:21:13 Dave Jones: Yeah, too, because so much of podcasting. And I think, you know, we've been decrying this for a long time that podcasting is very secretive. Nobody wants anybody to know, their download numbers. Nobody wants anybody to know, their metrics, and all these kinds of things. And honestly, I think a lot, some of it is legitimate, like, you know, Todd gives that example of somebody who has to work in a day job and doing a podcast and didn't want to be, you know, it'd be known publicly that they were making, you know, a lot of money. But I think in a lot of circumstances with the network stuff, and with these with these download numbers, I think people don't want other people to know, because they they see that it's not Adam Curry: there, it's not there. Exactly. It's just not there.

1:21:55 Dave Jones: Yeah. And they podcasting 2.0, I mean, what you with a bring op three into that as well. When everything is open, there's no question marks, you just know what's working, or it's not. And it just is, it's real, it's either reality, or is not, you're living in the truth, instead of living in a bunch of, you know, shadows. Adam Curry: And it's going to take a while for value for value music, to you know, get our footing and know exactly where we're at. And we're already running much faster than I ever expected. But this, this is going to break everything. I mean, it already is. The beauty of it is just like these jokes, you know, they have no idea Russell Brand is making millions, he may be making hundreds of 1000s, I have no idea what he's making. Clearly, he's making pacemaking something. The idea being that you don't need to be number one, on Channel Four, you don't need to be number one on the BBC, you need to basically be able to survive, be able to pay your rent, this is what this is what I've said for 50, almost 60, it'd be 16 years in October, just I just want to be able to pay my bills and do the show. That's it. And the people have heard that message and they get enough value from this has no agenda in particular. But this project, same thing. Just if

1:23:25 it's if it's valuable enough to people the podcast and the project, they will support it and they have and and and we take no money out of it. But we don't also don't need it. You know, sometimes a project is like that. Sometimes a project is good for just for the feeling of legacy. Like we're doing it sometimes it's good for your club or for your church or for your you know, your product or for your company. It's recreating the mainstream system and podcasting, it does not compute. It does not compute has to be scripted. That's why True Crime works with ads. You can you can do an upfront and here's here's what you're buying, you know, here, you know, what's going to be this.

1:24:09 Dave Jones: Did it WASD? Do you have a? You know, thinking? Adam was talking about no agenda, just then. Do you have a plan? This is an odd question to ask. But do you have a plan for if a show comes to our says blue and blows up and has millions of downloads? Is that going to? I mean, is that is that scare you at all? Dovydas: I mean so far. So one of the shows we host is actually quite big up so there haven't been any problems yet. So the infrastructure I use right now is really nice in terms of pricing, in terms of bandwidth. So that hasn't really been a problem at all. I Yes. Is the search part that might be more difficult in the long term? Especially if I am going to support video?

1:25:12 Dave Jones: Yeah, because that do you? Do you plan to support for video does that on your roadmap? Dovydas: It's something I would like to try. I feel many of people that are coming to podcasting right now, would love to experiment with video. The podcasters that have been doing this for years, seem to be less interested. And I feel this couldn't be a good opportunity to bring in new people. Dave Jones: So that is, so if, because that's this is that age old conundrum with with podcast hosting is, you if, if a Show Becomes too successful, then you begin to lose money on bandwidth. But I guess if it sounds like you've set everything up very carefully from the beginning, so that that's not as it shouldn't be.

1:26:02 Dovydas: It shouldn't be alright. I mean, some companies you know, they they charge of depending on how many downloads there are. But I really didn't want to do that, because we know how unreliable this is. I don't want to essentially charge people for fake downloads, or for auto downloads that no one listens to. So essentially, I just have a system where it's essentially a flat fee per month and if you upload more episodes, there is a more federal fee. And then we also have essentially reduced pricing for short episodes, which includes songs so for example, if a podcaster comes to you our says blue they can essentially, instead of uploading free, regular episodes, they can upload nine songs which are for example, less than five minutes long, then they will be out Yeah, that's Dave Jones: cool. That's a great idea because music is really not big.

1:27:02 Adam Curry: Have you looked at the IPFS podcasting stuff Dobby does Dovydas: I have honestly I don't yet see what part hosting companies have to play here. I know our says.com is experiment with that. But I feel at the moment I need to focus on features that I want to implement right now. Some of which include things like music shows and valley time splits Adam Curry: right on can we take a little break here and play a song for a moment just to I need I need a drink of water? Dave Jones: Did dovie does choose the song Adam Curry: I did not ask him Do you have a song that you'd like to play Adobe does Do you have a value for value music song that you can think of offhand I Dovydas: think you choose because they don't have anything Adam Curry: I should I'm sorry I should I should have asked I should have asked guests choice we do always get the wallet for the split this is when they played on booster Graham ball I like it a lot is from Mandal bro and it's called Eyes Unknown: staying up all night you will cue from your slum you will everything's green built the machines take away the nature

1:28:33 gates in a stars by the side of a motor disease this is the life you you know you can't tell us you can't turn no you can't turn.

1:29:42 Time went on this just feel so simple for the meet new people got the most creative be both go sweet goes to bring everyone is this is you know you can't turn up you know you can't turn away

1:31:36 Adam Curry: there's something really powerful about playing a song and then hitting a button and seeing like a Rube Goldberg machine seeing it pop up in the chat room with a link to the song. Yes. That's an F, of course. This is, let me see it is currently number five on the podcast index dot top 100, which I'd like to talk about briefly. I think Dave Jones, you have created a beautiful, beautiful thing here. And I'd like to explain why. Because this is this is so perfect. I actually I think it was Sam or someone made a comment. It was I think it was on Twitter, like, well, I don't like this chart. I want the chart to be you know, kind of I want to see the chart and then next week I want it to be someone moves up or someone moves down. And and the reason why Dave Jones: James was saying he had a problem with it, our being hourly, he didn't like that, right. That's what it Adam Curry: was beat well here this is, this is why I love this chart. This chart is not to be to get a gold star. I've been number one for weeks. Now, this is a discount. This is a discovery tool. This tells me on an hourly basis that something's happening in there. Especially if you roll down past the top five, even there's stuff going on that while someone's playing stuff. Stuff is being played out there. You know, there are songs that that I would not be exposed to, which is why I desperately

1:33:07 want to be able to click in and see what podcast played them and see that I know I know and see the booster grams. This is a discovery tool the days of being number one or being the biggest or being the top there over to over no one. It's not what matters anymore. It's like Do you know who the number one person is on only fans? No. No, because because of his tone? Do you know no but this because there's a 10s of 1000s of people who are very successful there and have their own little audience doing their own thing. They don't You don't need to be number one you need to be number one with your own community. Okay, only fans made it's a weird example. But people have heard the success stories and everyone can do the math.

1:33:52 Dave Jones: Let's use a different word like It's like being the number one on YouTube. There's no Adam Curry: number one right what is the number one on YouTubers? Yeah, Dave Jones: I can't stand that guy. I'm never gonna watch a video of mine. So it does. So it's irrelevant to me. Adam Curry: In fact, I'm gonna start saying to people value for value. It's like oh, it's only fans for podcasts value for value music. It's only fans for music. People understand it people get it. People get it. Oh, okay. So if you have 1000 people you can get them to pay $1,000 you're a millionaire? Yes. Correct. Dave Jones: Dobby does don't say RSS blue is the only fans don't worry.

1:34:33 Dovydas: I won't wish no no no no. And also disagree I think they have something that goes against V four v which is you know premium content so I don't think that's the for V at all. Adam Curry: I don't I don't see only fans as premium content. Dovydas: Oh, I don't know. I I just guessed that the way they do this is they charge some amount and then you can access the content. Adam Curry: No, no the way it works well yes I do. You may have to, you may have to pay something but you kind of pay what you want. That's the idea. That's the idea is you can be okay as N E and its interact. You're right. It's a bad example. It's not a good way to do it. But if someone says here's a million Satoshis mentioned my name, okay. You know, Dave Jones: Spencer says only fans you need to subscribe to get into so is there Spencer's or resin? Is the resident actually grant? Yes. Yes.

1:35:33 Adam Curry: So he's reliably informed. So we so that's a bad example. But the idea is, you have your own community. And I was talking with Dvorak about this no one knows outside of no agenda. No one knows no agenda. People don't walk around like Oh, Adam curry, no agenda, a big podcast. No, no. Adam curry MTV Rogan? I don't you have a podcast? Yeah. Now we have a 900,000 a million people who listen on a monthly basis. That's enough. That's enough. If now if they all gave us $1 That would be fantastic. It doesn't work that way. But it does it but they do other things they they value for value time, talent, treasure, do all kinds of cool stuff for us that would otherwise have cost a lot of money to have people do it. You know, to hire people to do stuff.

1:36:24 Dave Jones: Speaking of supporting us you want to thanks for Adam Curry: Yes, let me thank a few people who have pre boosted and boosted during the show blueberries 33,333 But wait a minute, Dred Scott just came in with 30,000 boosting eyes by Mendel bro and I'm going to think it yes he did it on curio caster actually, did I stop the homie let me just check that I that I take us back to the to our block. I don't know where am I? So we're back to our block. Okay. Where am I? Sorry, I have too many windows open. Blueberry, that damn these based booths always run out of space. Without further ado, I present the 100 and first self hosted feed to Lm beats the 33rd music feed we've uploaded and he has a URL there which I guess I'll have to take a look at his URL and see what that says sir seat sitter seat center Okay, perfect. And 33,333 z's in advertising mode from blueberry. We are now offering a service for artists if you have songs but no website will host it for you. 90 per 790 7% Go to the big guy 3% split between music side project boost bought and the BTS node so we can read boosts out live on the air shoot us an email thunder road@proton.me Without further ado I present that then he presents the 100

1:37:54 and first feed okay beautiful. And let me see during the program. We had striper boost 7777 from Jeff row and see as he says love the song my first boost attempt through pod verse. Thank you Dave and Adam for the weekly diversion of podcasts and 2.0 banter. While I finished my work week Jethro in North Carolina we have tonight Ah shoot into 33,333 No note, Mr. Robot 1669 board room was the free music love is lit eyes see Brooklyn 112 with 200 SATs Eric p p with 33,333 coming in from the boost CLI East Side Tony for a second there I thought I was listening to no agenda go podcasting and defend the network. And 31,948 or 31948 and Israeli freedom booths from Sir Brian of London who was boosting from Rosarito, Mexico on Saturday. He says I'm making music 2.0 The subject of my talk at hive fest to excite and recruit hive devs to join us making tools and cool stuff. And as we know hive integrates with value for value through the V for v dot app. And of course 123,456 Satoshis from the Bruce Wayne of podcasting, Dred Scott with a whole bunch of drum and guitar emojis and and there's a

1:39:25 whole bunch of emojis such 120,001 23456 Thank you so much. 20 blades on the Impala and that's it. That's what I have in the booths during the show. I'm sure we have some other ones to discuss. Dave Jones: I've got a I've got $500 from Marco arm and his whole Adam Curry: blade only am Paula Marco let us help you with your live shows. Ma'am. Let us help you. I see you. I see you saved my 18 minutes before live. That should already be signaling in the app. Dave Jones: automate it. I'm going to do it I'm going to automate it just just as proof of concept. Cool. Adam Curry: Just just just Yes. Thank you so much.

1:40:08 Dave Jones: Did you get the drips got 123456 that says boost boost boost go podcasting. Adam Curry: No dish. Dave Jones: Well, that's another one that came in at 254 Adam Curry: Oh my goodness. 20 is blades only Impala did not get that one boost boost busco podcast No, no, no, of course not. No dribs an animal Dave Jones: drink. Thank you. I think he has his kids up at night. Cindy boost for him so that he can sleep. That's probably what's very possible. John's ber t 33 333. Do fountain he says can't wait for V for V audiobooks. Same John. Adam Curry: Yeah, definitely. Dave Jones: We're gonna make it happen bro. He also boosted a show a piece of music which I cannot tell. That's the music we play a track we played last week with a bunch of mature rock hand emojis. A mere mortals podcast chyron our buddy 2222 through found he says Rick Beto is that YouTube musicians name another great combo he had was with Ted Goya called a warning on the future of music Yep, we played clips Adam Curry: Yeah, we did PLAY CLIP Yes, we did. We did.

1:41:18 Dave Jones: He understands the problem deeply just doesn't know about the solution yet. Wink. Mitch D I hope that's Mitch Downey because I'm competitive. Adam Curry: MD we'll just call them MD from now on MD and MD MD Dave Jones: these bubbles that are sold through pod verse he says did the feed I detail V come through? Yes it did. Thank you, Mitch. Adam Curry: It's good. He's been everyone's working on their feed. TLVs Yeah, nice. Dave Jones: Yeah, he's got he's got another see another two here testing to vase Yep. All looking good, Mitch. Thanks, brother. Uh, Jean Everett satchel Richard 1111 through found no note. Thank you Jean. Sir Brown of London. 1948 He says a little heavy indeed. He's boosted the track. See, you got to have those. Thank you, Brian. Appreciate that shrewd word.

1:42:10 Trick shred word. Yes, shred words. Send us 1000 SATs to podcasts guru. Well said Adam. There's no middleman and getting paid on visa vie music industrial complex payouts are a joke. There's no reason why we need ASCAP or BMI or anything like that in today's digital age. Adam Curry: Organization all you need to do splits splits is all you need. All you need Dave Jones: is splits. Adam Curry: Okay, we're gonna get sued for that. Dave Jones: No, we're gonna take it all for you to Cameron 2222 Row ducks the podcast index go to the website. Dave's awesome music taste Thank you Cameron. Appreciate that Jean bein 2222 through cast ematic he says I wonder if the company they wanted the tracking prefix. The company that wanted the tracking prefix would settle for op three being added and then being able to see the data from it kind of a middle ground between no analytics and their credit and their creepy stuff.

1:43:07 Adam Curry: Yeah, I mean, that's the interesting part about V for V. I mean I put all of all of my shows everything I do I send through op three to help send in some data and my contribution but I never look at it No, I look at Can I pay the rent? That's literally all I look at that's that's the value for value lifestyle. Dave Jones: See, Joel Sacha Richard 1111 through fountain he says Dave is spot on with the ancestral ancestral diets. I knew I was. Gene being 2222 through cast Matic says there's nothing wrong with your audio Dave. Good to hear. I need constant affirmation of my of my audio sir Shaun of the Allegheny Valley, aka Shawn McCune through cast MATIC 2029 sets. No note Thank you Shawn. Joe w 1111 through fountain he says What strikes me odd in nostril world is people cooking themselves over Dorsey as if he wasn't running Twitter when all the censoring began. Throw some money around and I guess we see where people's values truly stand right? That's right. It's true. It's your point. Good point. Sir Spencer 33 333 through fountain he says thank you so much, David Adam, this was my favorite board meeting to date for all artists who are growing tired of the weight Lake V for V features are easily

1:44:38 Adam Curry: say weight Lake. Yes. Okay, that's Dave Jones: are easily accessible to driven and talented individuals such as yourself today. DIY value agreements, interactive booster brands with fan messages and more are accessible now. Want to retain full control of your value? Don't wait. Wait has his don't wait like a day. longer as someone in homegrown hits IRC channel how to homebrew will show you the way heart heart heart. Nice. Thank you so Spencer appreciate that buddy. nega 3521 your pod friend, no note. Adam Curry: I love how you say his name Dave Jones: and I'm from I'm from Alabama. I Adam Curry: know that's okay. That's where I Dave Jones: landed beavers there's a lot of there's a lot of beaver in Alabama. Robert Adam Curry: I'm just gonna leave that one where it is.

1:45:34 Dave Jones: I left my grandmother used to keep I'm sorry, no, my grandma and she, she lives on are live she's passed away now she lived on a lake out in about 30 minutes north of Birmingham very deep in the woods. And she she kept a 22 just sitting out on the back porch because there's every about once every couple of months a beaver would try to build a dam and clog up the work so she just she'd go out there with a cup of coffee in the morning see and you Adam Curry: can just see you're doing it too. And then she would would you sit in a rocking chair while she did that?

1:46:19 Dave Jones: She said in afterwards and read the Robert Suzuki 11843 pod fans Thank you appreciate it no note lots he was he was streaming the show lots and lots of pod fans come through now that's good to see a lot of pod fans traffic be even our 1234 this is V for V Thank you even our source de Sena 1701 A Star Trek boosters David sounds a lot better this episode I guess he's talking about my audio Thank you source and Adam Curry: I gotta say we all sound great Dolby Das is using man those road guys they make good products you're using what are you using Dolby does Dovydas: it's called Road NT USB Adam Curry: is a great great sound Dave Jones: yeah you don't have any interface or anything it's just straight out of the mic into the into the computer.

1:47:13 Dovydas: Exactly just a USB ports to my think that that's all that's perfect. Dave Jones: Bad career advice. Chad a big satchel Richards one way showing off 11111 through fountain says Dave eff walking back the Gnostic gonorrhea wishes on the Bitcoin Bros. The Bitcoin bros are ripping lines of coke off each other. Adam Curry: Wait, didn't we already do that one? I have a feeling we did that one. Did we do that last week? I have a feeling it sounds familiar. Don't do things just don't forget. Dave Jones: See? Okay. The Bitcoin bros rip in lines of coke off each other's butt cheeks while y'all Christianity turned the other cheek. i On behalf of Dave Annette and an apprehensive Adam wish Wardy gonorrhoeae filled boils on the Bitcoin bros noses so they are reminded on every rip of their cheap coke that they are being carried on the shoulders of Lightning Network giants the sage and the puff hot spicy podsafe is my favorite this the spicy passage goes back in the box for a while and this is not this this it makes me it makes me unhappy Adam Curry: it's okay we all you know I I feel that you went from spicy pod this pod sage I feel that by by the end of the last episode you were much more lavender like Dave Jones: live into it just don't put it in my coffee.

1:48:41 Anonymous 5000 SATs through pod verse V for V works. In the 60s. My wife's aunt had some success with a burger joint based on V for V until arguments with local government related with local gov related to Virginia's newly adopted state sales tax made her decide it wasn't worth the hassle. You can even sell burgers the for V evidently no anonymous 5000 says HIPAA adverse my impression of nostre fans. I did not intend to ignite nostra hatred. Adam Curry: Well, I know you didn't intend but as you understand what happened was not your finest moment.

1:49:22 Dave Jones: Maybe I did intend to. Not entirely 5000 says he says my impression of nostre fans is that they're done with the pragmatism and want to build something completely censorship resistant even if it takes another decade before it works reliably enough for grandma. Not sure I understand their preference for BTC of a privacy coin and sure don't understand how putting one's faith in 10 Mysterious relays is better than copy paste at 10 centralized platforms. Yeah, good point. Yep. See what we got here. Oh, no. Adam Curry: You know what? I was gonna just say something about nostre Sure. I realize nostre has the same problem OPML house?

1:50:05 Oh, well OPML the true outline processor Markup Language is such, I love it, it is so powerful. I use it in my daily life all the time I use all the features, like Node includes and this, there's so much that can be done. But because of early RSS subscription lists, that's all they're used for. In the world, in the in the in the wide world of computing, because really, a lot of the stuff we're talking about OPML is is a beautiful solution to that. And we even had, what do we have we did we have an OPML? S OPML? We had, we had a lot of different things.

1:50:51 Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. We did the namespace for the Opium Adam Curry: War, when I was thinking about this Russell Brand stuff. I'm like, you know, really, you know, we need to move away from these, I mean, the idea of platforms like acts and threads, even to a degree Macedon, we just need to go back to an app that creates a feed, and that aggregates feeds. And that's how you publish. And that's how you subscribe. And you get them from people's, you know, from their servers, or maybe do it from some kind of space out there hash space, or IPFS. Or, you know, that is the ultimately that's the only solution. And in that, in that scenario, we were way ahead of the game 10 years ago. OPML is a great solution. So what OPML is to RSS Noster, is to social networking. nostra of course is much more powerful as identity and now that you can carry around but it will forever be buried under the social networking, just like OPML will forever be a way to you know, export and import RSS feeds, specifically podcast feeds to be honest about it as too bad one, Dave Jones: one day when we finish fixing podcasting will return to freedom controller. Okay, yeah, Adam Curry: you gotta you gotta do you got to do. I'm excited about it.

1:52:22 Dovydas: Can I say something? Yes, yes. I mean, it's such a huge problem, this whole idea of essentially aggregating content in an open way. I mean, we already had it with blogs, we even had it with Twitter, which had RSS feeds. And I feel we are against such a powerful force, all of these social media companies, they have no incentive to share the content that people post on their platforms, in an open way. So there really has to be some innovative idea that essentially offers a better experience than what they currently do. Because without that, I feel it's very, very difficult for to convince people to, you know, use RSS readers and go back to the old days.

1:53:19 Adam Curry: Well, isn't that exactly what we're doing with podcasts now, though? I mean, yes, we have some centralized systems. And we have, you know, podcasts index is doing a lot of the heavy lifting aggregation so the clients can stay light. But in general, you know, you could do this for blogs. Dovydas: You could do that. But I guess, podcasting had the disadvantage that from the very beginning, the idea of a podcast was that it's an RSS feed, you know, if writing articles, etc. They come in many, many forms. It started at zero, I guess what you could say is that blogging, started HTML, and then adopted RSS later, whereas podcasting is RSS native from its birth.

1:54:10 Adam Curry: Exactly. Fair enough. But blog, blogs, look, Google Reader was a thing. My wife had Google Reader, my wife love Google Reader. She loves subscribing to blogs, and then then Google killed it. Because we allowed it to be centralized by the Satan. By the way, I gotta I don't know why associate Todd was Satan. But I just want to give him a shout out for podcast. mirror.com I love what he's doing there. Great idea. Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a great that the inner beat. People have asked us to do this 100 times. And we've always said no, because we're not touching. We're not we're not going to touch. We're not going to make an app and we're not going to be a podcast host. That's just not that's not anything we do. And we're never going to do that. So that Like this was, this was a exactly filling a thing that people have always wanted Adam Curry: this. Can you map a domain name to it, though? Is that part of his?

1:55:12 Dave Jones: I mean that Todd touched it let us know. I don't know, Adam Curry: that would be that would be the ultimate I mean, you know, so that. So I don't have to be podcast mirror.com/adam or whatever, you know, it could be. I could map my domain name to it. In fact, you should be selling domain where's the GoDaddy link? Dave Jones: It's got to be a CNAME a CNAME would do that. Adam Curry: I would. I would hope so. Yeah, of Dave Jones: course it hopes Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Yeah. Tone Ricker, one a one on one to fountain he says brainstorm. Now that chapters allow listener to navigate playback in many podcasts and 2.0 apps is anyone created a choose your own adventure style show? Where the host Narrator prompts audience to make a decision at various points and the listener proceeds to the specific chapter to continue. Just a thought this morning to share with the group. That's a neat idea. That's a pretty neat idea. I like it.

1:56:00 Adam Curry: I don't understand that yet. What is he saying? Oh, you don't know say it again? Dave Jones: No, he's he's saying like layout a choose your own adventure. Style podcast. So like episode where you can like depending on is a you know, you the the character the main character gets to this decision point. Do you choose this or do you choose that? And then you click on the chapter? No, and it would take it would jump somewhere else? Yeah, no jumping to the D appropriate audio. Sort of like a text adventure game, but in audio for interest. It's pretty neat. I like it. Adam Curry: Hey, Kim, can we do a web app with a with a web app that creates feeds in aggregates feeds? I'm just not. Now I'm thinking we got to fix blogs to just like, let's fix social networking.

1:56:47 Dave Jones: Yeah, come back. Come back. Adam Curry: I'm here. I'm here again. Yes, I'm here again. Dave Jones: Todd Cochran? Hunter 75,000. Adam Curry: Whoa, what's going on? Todd Cochran. Nice. Dave Jones: Adam. Dave, we need to start calling podcast platforms that don't have any podcasts and 2.0 implantation implementations non compliant and non certified aka PSP. Obviously, we're excited to bring podcasting 2.0 to those podcasters on those non compliant hosting sites via podcast mirror. As we talked, as we talked, we're all in more coming soon from the blueberry team. got excited to also announce that blueberry podcasters have earned $10,000 collectively since we implemented reefer V.

1:57:32 Adam Curry: Okay, questions. One? Why I know it's a question for Todd. Why is it? Why is it difficult for him to do item level? Podcast mirroring? Just from a technique? It's obviously technical, but do you understand why Dave Jones: Yeah, I think it's because the stuff in the the items change whereas the channel does really doesn't much so you would have to go and you would have so you'd have to wait you publish your episode, then you'd have to wait for podcasts mirrored to reflect the change then go over and edit a separate set of things. Whereas with with just fee level stuff, Adam Curry: Oh, of course because you don't. Yeah, you don't have the item stuff to actually send it's not it's not in your original da Okay, got it. Yeah.

1:58:33 Dave Jones: Yeah, I see. I see. So the you were exactly right. Last week when you predicted based on Todd's level of grumpiness that he was about to ship something. Adam Curry: When Todd gets grumpy ship is happening. This good Dave Jones: comic strip blogger 30 3015 delimiter. He says through family says always he says he Bitcoin lovers, Dave and Adam. Could you kindly ask your listeners to visit my blog at www dot CSB dot lol for my cartoons that do not feature baboons. If they have cartoon ideas for me to draw, they can tweet them to my Twitter handle at CSB. Please note that the handle is just three letters C S and B yo CSB.

1:59:23 Adam Curry: Joe Thank you CSB. GSB man Dave Jones: always around gets monthlies here we got Trevor zener $5 Trevor I changed your feed URL for you buddy. Paul air skin $11.14. Michael Gagan $5 Charles current $5 Christopher Raymer $10 James Sullivan $10 Sean McCune the Allegheny Valley $20 and Cohen glotzbach $5. Thank you. And thank Adam Curry: you, Dred Scott, I see you over there on tally coin. Phil is 56,396 He says tallyho you Just just you know, he is so badass Dred Scott, he just he just sent stuff through through tally coin just to see if we're checking it. Just to make sure we're still awake. Thank you very much everyone for these value for value. For the value for value support, it truly is awesome that you're doing that. It keeps the podcast going, what the podcast is really just the the weekly board meeting of the entire project you are supporting us for all of the systems you're supporting. Even if we got an upgrade to the, to the mastodon, you see that?

2:00:35 Dave Jones: I did it took me off guard, it kind of threw it probably really Adam Curry: close and it posts faster. Now, I'm not sure what, what Masto hosted, could we use master host, we upgraded a couple times to be able to support search and, and just the amount of bandwidth and storage that will use all of that all of that and a couple of years of runway in case Dave and Adam fall down and decide that, you know, we're dead. So it will continue to run. We decided that we're doing we just decided that we're dead. So now we keep a nice margin in there. And it's all very much appreciated, especially people like Marco as well. Thank you all. We really appreciate it that go to podcast. index.org. At the bottom of that page, you'll find two red buttons one for your pay, pal. That's for your for your Fiat fun coupons. Exit decision. Is that what sort of Dave Jones: exit strategy?

2:01:37 Adam Curry: And there's also the tally coin link there. But of course we'd like you to go to podcast apps.com Grab your Marcus Marcus is as HTTPS working because Marcus owns podcast. apps.com He bought that and he's 42 I don't seem some people seem to have problem with the with the secure HTTPS. Either that or new podcast app.com Or if you wish, nude podcast apps.com They all work so function and grab one of those apps and boost us boost us and let us know when you're boosting you help everybody the whole ecosystem. That's what we love the most. Pitches good. It feel it boosting, boosting is loving. But it's the bottom line boosting is loving how you Dave Jones: missed my cue I queued you up for Nisa.

2:02:21 Adam Curry: Oh, I'm sorry. It feels good. I was I was gonna play it at the end of the show. WDS. Ma'am. Anything else we can do for you? Is there anything that we can support you with in your in your your side hustle, hopefully one day to be exit decision? Dovydas: Well, one of the things I probably want to do is probably chat to you, Adam. Because you have been leading this effort of doing music shows. So I really want to talk to people who are already doing it, trying to understand what is the workflow? And what can the hosting publishing companies do to essentially make this as smooth as possible.

2:03:06 Adam Curry: How about this? How about this for an idea? Because people have been asking me to do this for no agenda, but I was thinking of doing it for booster Graham ball first, why don't I do a screencast of the show. So you can and then I'll do it with some of the prep time. So you can see the whole workflow. And I'll put that out on no agenda too. But you can take a look at it. And that will really give you an idea of you know, because it's there's a combination of things that happens, but the workflow is really a lot of split kit for the preparation and then for for the live play out. And would that be helpful? Dovydas: Oh yeah, that's perfect. Okay. Oh, I mean, yes, the live aspect of the whole thing probably adds more complication. So my first step is going to be just doing a regular show with our while switching and live shows is going to be more in the future. Have you Adam Curry: looked at split kit at all? Have you have you checked that out? I had Yes. Because what split kit does is forget the live stuff but the the important The important part is I mean it's it's really phenomenal. So first okay, I already know the 15 songs I'm going to play and so the first hurdle but you know I get around it is I find them you know they're all over the place but I find them through LM beads I find them through wave lake I fly you know just people send me stuff. I go and I search for all of those podcasts index.org

2:04:39 under the music tab. Then I get the song I click the download link. So then the the mp3 downloads I name it and then I save it in the folder so that's that's already a process that I should be easier than I want. I'm gonna do the show. The way I do it and sometimes I do stuff on the fly but I basically I come up with my list. Like, you know, I'm gonna play this song first and this on this on this song, because I go into split kids split could make makes it very easy to just search for those songs. What they don't make is split kids should make it easy for me just to download the song right there. But that so I should be able to do everything in Split kit. I searched for the song, I click in, I add it, boom, it's added.

2:05:23 So then as I'm, as I'm doing the show, the minute I play the next song, I go over to split kit, I hit the button, which then sets a timestamp like, Okay, you started playing the song, this time, the song is this long, so it knows when it will end and then it goes back to my value block. So that's, that's really the workflow then when I'm done, then I go back, I look at my file, and I say, okay, the firt the second song started at three minutes and 45 seconds according to split kit. But of course it was later because I already started the song. So we'll go and adjust that time. That really only takes about 15 minutes, it takes much less time than you think it does. But just to get it exactly right, so So the value of time split starts at the right moment. Now here's the beauty. This is the beauty that I think people should consider using split kits capability. Because I then go to sovereign feeds. And I just import all that information from the split kit split kit has a number of export options. One is into sovereign feeds, which I use to create my feed. And I just paste the URL, and it loads all of those value times split blocks. In addition, right, it also has a show notes. And I hit that. And it gives me the list of all the songs, I can just copy paste that right into my show notes. And it outputs a chapter file, which is the biggest beauty. So now I just have a JSON chapter file that is

2:06:57 good to go the minute I publish, and it has all the start time. So everything fires beautifully all at the same time. So the question is, do you want to recreate the split kid functionality in your own interface? Which I can understand why people would want to do that? Or do you want to just take the import from split test and send your users to split kit that that would be up to you. But that's split without split kid, I would not be doing the show there wouldn't be would be too complicated for me to to hand code it and get all that stuff done. Dovydas: Right? Yes. I mean, the main challenge here is to actually unify all of the podcasting 2.0 aspects. So one of them is a valid time splits. One other thing is chapters that you mentioned. And if there's one interface that essentially does that merges things in a smart way so that people just coming into this new concept, understand it understand it intuitively, I think that's the perfect scenario.

2:08:02 Adam Curry: It because basically now there's a whole bunch of steps. So basically, it might in an ideal world I would go in I'd say here's the songs I want to play, they be kind of like in a bin sitting there and then okay, I'm gonna play this song I click that song, it automatically sets the start time because I play it next song I click it same thing then when I'm done I click a box and then it spits out chapter spits out show no everything is all in place I don't even have to copy paste it it just all goes in. That would be the ideal way. And for extra points have it integrate with my playout system so that it downloads the mp3 and then when I start the mp3 automatically hits the start time and there's all kinds of stuff that I could imagine that would make it easier for me personally. But I think most people are probably you know I can envision a little mixer in an interface so you don't even download songs you play him I prefer to use my system but so you just have a little mixer you know song one song two now it's that simple. So I'm one over place on to split kid has some of that built into it. I'll do a video and if you want to we can we can chat. Hey, we'll take it offline Dobby das Dave Jones: I remember you did that. I remember you did that once before with nogen it's been a long time ago.

2:09:23 Adam Curry: I looked at it six years ago. It's embarrassing to see the system. I was working with this. I have to do a new one. But that was more that was more just to show people how crazy it is. When John's talking I'm looking for clips I'm dragging stuff in I'm just to see the whole the whole production process is kind of funky. I mean, you see it? I got to do that again. I have a camera. I have software. I can do this. I can do this. Dovydas: I would love to as trial. Yeah. Adam Curry: Thank you, Adam. Yeah, of course, man. No problem at all. And I'll try to do it on the end because what is it what is for you now, is it? Almost nine o'clock? Quarter nine?

2:10:04 Dovydas: That's correct. Okay. Adam Curry: Yeah, on a Friday night, Dave Jones: trying to compile that script that rush that rust script that you did a word paste it, but I can't find it now, I can't find the textbook. Adam Curry: And I was wondering, I had a feeling that it may not have completed yet. Dave Jones: It looked like it was missing curly brace. Adam Curry: I thought it was done. But it wasn't. But no, I hold on a second. Let me do this. Did I copy that? Yes, there we go. Watch this. Dave Jones: You're gonna paste it in again. Adam Curry: I'm gonna get sent. I'm gonna paste it to you. You're gonna set it in there. Yeah, on the signals. There it is. I mean, look, it wasn't blazingly fast. But it was sovereign. I did it on my own system. No one knows that I did it. It doesn't doesn't report army doesn't tell me any bad things. And I had no idea what rust even is. So the fact that it did that in an hour is I think is just impressive on my on my little start nine box here, that's impressive to this speaking Dovydas: over us. One interesting thing I've tried a few months ago, is actually using rust on the front end.

2:11:19 Because we have this idea of WebAssembly, which means that we can now have all kinds of different languages running on the front end of so people who would maybe want to check out they can go to tools.rs as blue.com to see what a rust front end app actually looks like. So it's a little experiment, but I might actually develop this further in the future. Oh, nice. Dave Jones: I think I remember you posting that. What is it? Dovydas: So there are a few things. So you know, I've tried all kinds of different things with it. So one of them is podcast GUI generator. So where you just enter your podcast feeds URL, and it generates the podcast good using the right format. Then the other thing we have is slot op free, which I should probably retire because we now have all the free pages.

2:12:14 But what it did initially, it would essentially post your enclosure URL, and it would essentially plot your downloads over time. And then we also have validator which is a podcasting 2.0 tags validator, which essentially does all the validation in your browser. Dave Jones: Wow, it's a real time real time update. The this is not a this is not a compilable script. Adam Curry: I just sent you I just sent you a link. It's still writing the script. It's not yet it's almost there. It's it's slow. But it's it's literally writing it word by word, but it's doing it I'll send it to you when it says it's complete.

2:13:02 It's a little unclear when these things are complete. You gotta go back, or you offer you back to the back. Hey, can we Okay, so I have a weird thing happening on Friday. Next Friday, Friday, can we do Thursday evening? Is it possible for you? Dave Jones: We can but it'll need to be late. That's okay. I've actually started rock climbing with my daughter. So we do that on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And that's okay, Adam Curry: because I need some time to decompress after no agenda anyway. But if we could do that, because I don't want to miss a board meeting. But I'm traveling to Houston and like everything my whole life is a mess. They've Dave Jones: fallen apart. Yeah, so like eight o'clock? Oh, yeah, no, that's Adam Curry: not late. Yeah, that's fine. Perfect eight o'clock. Alright, everybody board meeting will be eight o'clock central time on Thursday. So join us for that Dobby. Das man, thank you so much. Congratulations with everything. RSS blue.com. I always put it in the list on the booster grand ball. So people know they can can also use that for their for their music uploads. And we'll be we'll be in touch about the workflow for for creating value for value music shows.

2:14:17 Dovydas: Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks, David. Adam Curry: Thanks for coming, man. Really appreciate you being here. And thank you chat room. Thank you all so much for being here for this very important board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 We will return next week Thursday 8pm Central time see you then. Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org for more information. This feels good